General Debate 09 October 2020

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Tony Stuart

It’s easy to allege bias or partisanship on behalf of the news media, especially the broadcast media. It’s less easy to offer any evidence, but I’ll give it a go.

On Wednesday night 1News led with the story that National had told supporters where Judith Collins would be doing a walkabout, and that the people she met in the street weren’t just randoms who happened to be there. Whether it was a story deserving of leading the highest-rating news bulletin on NZ television is a moot point. But significantly, it was aired whilst Colmar Brunton, commissioned by TVNZ, was in the field polling for the One News/Colmar Brunton poll released last night. Someone at TVNZ made an editorial decision to give the story prominence at a time when there was a distinct possibility it may influence people who were contacted by Colmar Brunton that night.

Colmar Brunton ceased polling late on Wednesday night. Yesterday, at 2.19pm, the 1 News website featured this story:

Jacinda Ardern has acknowledged Labour contacts supporters and asks them to show up for campaign events, after National’s seemingly staged Auckland walkabout hit the headlines yesterday.

Labour’s leader was on the campaign trail in Gisborne when asked if her walkabout today was “organic”.

“Certainly I can tell you some of my family members were in there and you could see people with rosettes on who support the Labour Party, but otherwise people were just here and came to say hello,” Ardern said.

A reporter then put it to her that: “On Saturday your Banks Peninsula office put out an email to all your supporters saying please go out shopping, and be on these streets to say hi.”

“We invite people to come and say ‘hi’ absolutely and you can see that today, so you’ve seen people in Labour shirts, certainly you’ll have seen that in Christchurch people who work with us come and say hello, I don’t often get to say thanks to our volunteers as well,” Ardern replied.

Labour’s leader says she wasn’t involved in National’s seemingly staged Auckland stroll so couldn’t comment on any differences between the two parties approaches.

“All I know is when I come out it’s a chance to meet supporters, members of the public, and people who have been volunteering for us,” she said.

Yesterday, 1 NEWS political reporter Benedict Collins said the National Party using supporters to pose as members of the public during an Auckland walkabout was “cheeky and clumsy”.

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/ardern-acknowledges-labour-asks-supporters-show-up-campaign-walkabouts

Now, some credit to TVNZ for running the story on the 1 News website. I only saw the first 15 minutes of the news last night, and the story hadn’t appeared then, and I am unaware if it ran at all during the bulletin. However it wasn’t the lead story, as the so-called “cheeky and clumsy” National Party walkabout had been the day before.

It’s no secret that political party members enjoy the chance to greet visiting MP’s, especially the leaders. In our electorate we often arrange party functions around the visits; this election I have lunched with Nicola Willis, and had a most enjoyable dinner last night with Andrew Bayly, MP for Hunua, who talked about his trip through Jordan by camel, retracing the steps of Lawrence of Arabia. Party leaders generally have tighter schedules, so the only chance to meet them is in the street between meetings. As the email to Banks Peninsula Labour Party members shows, all parties do it.

Wednesday night’s story may have had little material difference to the outcome of the ON-CB poll, but that’s not the issue. It was a tawdry hit job on Judith Collins, at a time when 1 News’ executives, editorial staff and journalists would have known it COULD impact their poll.
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December 9, 2019 8:26am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The Hit on Collins and National was also on RNZ in Colin Peacock’s Mediawatch.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018767281/midweek-mediawatch-debate-over-debates-and-political-parties-faking-it
  
  It was played last night – with no correction / addition of Ardern’s acknowledgement
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:33am
- Unity
  
  I find the media not only biased but blatantly so. Their gall knows no bounds. Judith and Jacinda could do the same thing but the media would put a ridiculous detrimental slant on anything Judith did but make Jacinda’s actions full of gloss and glitter. It’s so blatant that it is gobsmacking. It’s beyond belief that those who favour Jacinda can’t see what’s going on as well as how hopeless Labour has been.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:39am
- kowtow
  
  ‘It’s easy to allege bias or partisanship on behalf of the news media, especially the broadcast media. It’s less easy to offer any evidence, but I’ll give it a go.’
  
  It is easy cos the Media Party make it easy. Evidence.
  
  The front page of the ODT today is dedicated to Collins not turning up for a cheese roll. In an age of crippling debt , unemployment, closed borders etc this is what they offer us . And it is a negative on Collins.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:45am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    Once again though, National needs to be smarter. They know that this sort of thing can happen so why put themselves in a position like this? They are just disorganized and it is showing this week unfortunately.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:42am
    - kowtow
      
      There must be hundreds of minor slip ups by all sides in campaigns like this
      
      But for them to be put on the front page of the paper ?
      
      BTW the local Nat hopeful Kernoghan did attend later , so why the front page treatment ?
      
      Bias , from a ‘progressive” newspaper . One that front page headlined ‘Je Suis’, but wouldn’t publish the cartoon to prove it.
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:27am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        But that’s what the media do, you just don’t give them that opportunity. National seems to have forgotten that.
        
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        October 9, 2020 11:37am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    There’s a lot to said for cheese rolls, especially home made ones.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:58am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I gather South Island ones are special.
      
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      October 9, 2020 12:02pm
- Justitia
  
  Tony, the media are simply delivering on the bribe they received from the Coalition during Lockdown. On 22 April the Coalition announced a $50 million “relief” package for the media which included a $21 million subsidy of transmission fees for six months. That subsidy would appear to run out a few days after the election. The TV media are likely to be concerned to see it extended. Hence, in my view, the relentless hostile coverage by both networks of National and Collins and the fawning over Ardern. It’s disgusting but at least you know why now.
  
  Karl du Fresne has an excellent column on the media’s appalling bias during the campaign on his blogspot right now. It should be read and widely shared.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:49am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’ve been sceptical of those claims up until now, but you make a very good point about the expiry date. Plus the PM hung out the carrot of a second tranche of “relief” for the media. If it is eventually given, it has certainly been earned!
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:05am
    - Philview
      
      The media campaign started before that money was paid. They went after Bridges, they went after Muller and now they are going after Collins. This is an ideological war and seems to align with the same powerful forces that control the Democrats in the US and can get people on the streets in 24 hours in every city in the world when a black man is killed by white policeman in the US.
      
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      October 9, 2020 9:54am
      - giltee
        
        It’s hard to understand the mentality of downtickers but of course that’s what you get with lefties.
        
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        October 9, 2020 1:16pm
  - Hard Cheese
    
    The Herald web site even has a lame “cartoon” about health safety in Level 1 on the front page, reinforcing the Govt fear message.
    
    I include the quotes because $50 million clearly isn’t enough to buy a cartoonist with a sense of humour.
    
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    October 9, 2020 1:40pm
- Prince
  
  The story about Labour also inviting supporters to walkabouts was not on One News last night.
  On TV3 late news Tova O’Brien summed up National’s ‘very bad week’, including the claim they planted supporters, with no mention of Labour.
  Needless to say the Weekly Labour broadcast ‘Mediawatch’ also highlighted the story.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:06am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Thanks for the confirmation Prince. In other words, TVNZ thought a website story was sufficient to provide “balance” with a lead story on the 6pm news the previous night, which included a young reporter describing the National Party (and by extension its leader, MP’s and members) as “dumb, dumb, dumb”.
    
    And to think, journalism used to be a trusted and respected profession!
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:16am
    - Gravelroad
      
      As indicated yesterday, this morning I attended a Judith Collins election meeting in our town.
      I am not a member of any political party, and I don’t usually go to election meetings.
      I did this time because I wanted to see Ms Collins in action for myself and, quite honestly, I feel she has been dealt a really dud hand by the media.
      So- there were about 200 people in the room, and yes, many of them were old.
      When Ms Collins walked in, there was a standing ovation for her – not pre-arranged.
      Then the black swarm of media arrived. One person in my row was heard to say “isn’t that woman at the back that awful Tova O’Brien”?
      Ms Collins spoke well, was clear and sensible as you would expect of a professional politician.
      She spoke about issues relevant to the area and the scary taxing expectations of Labour and the Greens.
      I will be interested how far the media goes in Spinning what was a positive meeting into something petty.
      Didn’t see any cheese rolls. But plenty of people lined up afterwards to have their Collins authored book signed.
      
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      October 9, 2020 12:47pm
  - MCos
    
    I get emails all the time from the Labour Party with information about all manner of activities and I’m sure the other parties also have mailing lists for that purpose.
    BTW
    When John Key was PM he used to go to the French Market in Parnell on the weekends and say hello to all & sundry; election or not.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:54am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Planting supporters is normal as is planting fake supporters. Can’t have a hoolie before the dust up.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:26am
- Philview
  
  Labour are the incumbent Government and have such media control they don’t need to discuss their record for the last 3 years or their policy platform for the next 3 years. Their proposed policies include significant industrial reform including legislating for fair pay agreements, sweeping environmental regulations, hate speech, promoting Maori sovereignty and much more. On top of that we are in a recession, a global crisis and there has been zero media analysis on Labour’s economic plan for the recovery.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:13am
  - Jack5
    
    Here’s another example of the media’s Left bias.
    
    In the midst of voting the Hooerald today reports Ardern is in the running for the World Peace Prize. It will be announced at 11am today central European summer time, which is 10pm today NZ time.
    
    If the mad Swede, Thunberg, or someone-else, beats Ardern, the Hooerald has at least made the most of the Norwegian woke fest.
    
    The Hooerald’s said it all before. In October last year, the newspaper said Ardern was in the running for the 2019. It cited her handling of the Christchurch mosques massacres aftermath. The 2019 prize was awarded to Ethiopian Prime Minister, Abiy Ahmed.
    
    It may be too late for recognition over the mosque massacres, but New Zealand will have a stack of brownie points for past anti-nuclear protests and present climate-change rapture.
    
    There are interesting names in the list of Peace Prize recipients, including Austen Chamberlain, the climate-change flake Al Gore, Yasser Arafat, and Aung San Suu Kyi, who’s since under a cloud over the persecution of Burmese Muslims.
    
    Perhaps you can admire Le Duc Tho, the Vietnam Communist leader, for refusing the Peace Prize after being awarded it jointly with Henry Kissinger.
    
    If Ardern wins this year’s prize AND the election, we will be able to blame the Oslo whale eaters for the new government.
    
    Herald on Ardern and Peace prize LAST year:
    
    https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2019/10/01/our-pm-is-up-there-with-greta-thunburg-in-the-running-for-this-years-peace-prize/
    
    And THIS year (apologies for the Hooerald’s long web page title):
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jacinda-ardern-tipped-to-win-nobel-peace-prize-despite-competition-from-thunberg-trump/BXT5L6UY7MYMVUABH5REVHEDJY/
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:59am
    - Jack5
      
      How do we know Labour didn’t time the general election to coincide with the Peace Prize announcement, with news media speculation alone making the timing politically worth while?
      
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      October 9, 2020 11:28am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        We know, because the election was originally timed for three weeks ago, not a week after the Nobel Peace Prize announcement.
        
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        October 9, 2020 11:49am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  One of the big differences in the approach of the two parties is that Labour are open and transparent about members attending walkabouts and National are not. Hamish Price, involved with organising Collins’ Ponsonby Rd visit, couldn’t even tell a reporter his name.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:14am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Open and transparent? Give me strength! This only got out because someone sent the media the members-only email sent to Banks Peninsula LP members. If they had taken an advertisement in the paper to invite Labour folk to meet the PM, you might have a point!
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:41am
    - Jack5
      
      While we’re talking “walkabouts”…
      
      The Australian owner of the Ponsonby shop, Oscar Wylee, which refused entry to Judith Collins and her media party, has been fined millions of dollars in a recent court case over a retail scam.
      
      The Ponsonby shop is owned by Oscar Wylee Pty Ltd, registered in New Zealand. It’s unusual for an NZ firm to have “Pty” in its title.
      
      The NZ-registered Oscar Wylee Pty Ltd is owned by Oscar Wylee Pty Ltd, of Sydney, which is Australian registered.
      
      The two directors of the NZ firm, Oscar Wylee Pty Ltd, are Jack Teoh and Bob Teoh, of the same address in Sydney.
      
      News Corp describes the Australian firm of Oscar Wylee as a “troubled optometrist chain” and says it has been fined $A3.5 million for “massively overstating” its charitable donations.
      
      News Corp reports:
      
      For five years, the retailer had told consumers it would donate a pair of glasses to “those in need for every pair purchased”. Children in Cambodia, for instance, would benefit if people in Canberra bought the firm’s products.
      
      But Oscar Wylee failed to follow through with the pledge. Over a the five-year period, it sold 328,010 pairs of glasses but donated only 3181 frames – without lenses – to charity. That’s less than 1 per cent of what it promised.
      
      What are National’s organisers up to thinking of taking Judith Collins to such an Auckland shop when its Australian parent is in the courts only about three weeks ago? Australia’s consumer watchdog began a case against it last December.
      
      https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/retail/oscar-wylee-optometrists-own-ambassador-slams-firm-after-court-ruling/news-story/806e03064fadefb20341376f3e83732b
      
      If you have trouble with the paywall at that site, try this one:
      
      https://insideretail.com.au/sectors/oscar-wylee-lost-sight-of-donation-pledges-202009
      
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      October 9, 2020 2:20pm
  - Lance
    
    If that is your attempt at comedy…. don’t give up your day job
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:55am
    - JibberJabber
      
      What on earth makes you think he’s got a job?
      
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      October 9, 2020 11:45am
  - Flossie
    
    And why should he?
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:56am
    - Martin Williams
      
      To be open and transparent?
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Precious little flowers bothered because others are doing what they instinctively do.
    I recall a meeting where elderly Labour “ladies” were were beating National supporters with their umbrellas. Others were climbing the Nats backs to cause mayhem.
    Politics these days is tame.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:31am
  - Isobar
    
    Hamish Price was made to look an absolute fool. I’m sure all parties have supporters attend their events and campaigning. I don’t think anyone has an issue with that.
    
    Its just when a high profile person who is clearly part of the staff lies about it and makes up fake names. It looks bad, in fact it looks desperate. There is a difference between supports and campaign staff pretending to be random members of the public.
    
    I think Judith is popular enough without her team needing to do these stupid stunts.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:43am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Not giving his name goes to intention. Probably crapping himself in case he said the wrong thing his ‘career’ could be over.
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:01am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Nothing matters. Sheeple have made up their mind. Yesterday’s poll is a classic proof that whatever Judith does will not matter any more. Here is the election night result:
  
  Labour = 46;
  Greens = 6;
  National = 34;
  ACT = 8
  NZ First = 3
  Rest = 3
  Comfortable Labour/Greens gummit.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:28am
  - Crisplion
    
    Maybe you’re about right. But what if Labour was two points lower than that, National and ACT each a point higher and the Greens come in just under 5 instead of at 6? That reasonably small difference in vote share would make a big difference in how ‘comfortable’ things would be for the left.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:52am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Under your scenario Labour govern alone.
      
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      October 9, 2020 11:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    And here is mine:
    National 53
    Act 8
    Grrrrn 1
    NZF 0
    Labour 38
    
    ☑️☑️NZ’s Future is at stake☑️☑️
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:36am
  - jon
    
    Sir Cullen..you might like to correct your figures..they only add up to a 100 member House not 120!!
    
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    October 9, 2020 12:49pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      I think Sir Cullen is talking percentages.
      
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      October 9, 2020 1:29pm
      - jon
        
        DAH..thanks for that Capt..cheers
        
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        October 9, 2020 1:41pm
      - Lee C
        
        I think he is talking shit.
        
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        October 9, 2020 5:27pm
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Jon bro as Captain points out, I am projeting the percentages as voted by us sheeple of NZ.
      
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      October 9, 2020 3:28pm
- SmokerGuy
  
  I’m sorry Tony but National have themselves to blame on this. They are trying to make Judith like Jacinda with people flocking her. She is not Jacinda and never will be so who on earth thought this was a good idea needs a boot up the ass. She is better visiting businesses rather than doing walkabouts like this. They should be playing to her strengths rather than trying to compete with Jacinda.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:40am
- beadgame
  
  Difference is Ardern is popular, so has lots of people coming out to see her, whereas Collins isn’t and doesn’t. Duncan nailed it – https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/duncan-garner-national-is-not-the-party-it-once-was-they-re-rookies.html
  What you are left with is an “always national” base, many of which don’t support their leader. As Winston told David, the times have changed….
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:23am
- SpencerArnold
  
  So this is an “unacceptable setup”, but no-one questions whether Clarke Gayford really sleeps with the pillow he tweeted a picture of? Now if Clarke was really missing his other half, he would knock one out while wearing a pair of her knickers on his head, like a real bloke would. (and if he was feeling dangerous, he would wear them backwards).
  
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  October 9, 2020 5:50pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Same for walk about in Lyttleton but a dicky bird in the compliant media – yeah nah
  
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  October 9, 2020 5:55pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Post Day!
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October 9, 2020 8:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Rotten fence post that Labour [bad word – Mod] vote for?
  
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  December 9, 2019 8:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That ‘word’ has many meanings, but I guess Mod took the worst meaning.
    
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    October 9, 2020 5:10pm
- Jimmy White
  
  It’s also Leif Erikson Day the first European to discovered America. I will volunteer to tie Mike to a post if you bring the tomatoes.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    And camera
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:02am
    - sooty
      
      MNM, is the turtle for the post!
      
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      October 9, 2020 12:58pm
2ic

The exodus continues…

The number of people leaving NZ shows no sign of slowing – here are our net passenger statistics since March (negative number means net loss):

Mar: -63,078
April: -25,511
May: -4,534
Jun: -5,702
Jul: -9,158
Aug: -3,047
Sep: -4,154

https://www.customs.govt.nz/covid-19/more-information/passenger-statistics/
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October 9, 2020 8:01am
- GazzaW
  
  …..and now that New South Wales and the Northern Territory have removed quarantining and extra trans-Tasman capacity provided by Qantas and Air NZ we can expect to see those numbers accelerate as tradies, professionals and their families recommence the brain drain across the ditch. The demand has been such that Qantas are adding even more flights. The recent Aussie budget is yet another incentive to relocate.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:41am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    NSW had eight new cases of Covid yesterday, in two separate community clusters. The “bubble” might not last for long.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:06am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      I have a son that does Gold Coast to Sydney every week, he tells me Sydney is like there was never any covid, they are the only state that has learnt to live with it, their premier and CHO have to their credit, got people to go about their normal lives and live with this. Meanwhile, Victoria will represent 60% of Job Keeper and Job Saver for the whole of Australia by Christmas.
      The bubble is one way.
      NSW have worlds best track and tracing, Victoria has amongst the worst. If you are picking where to go in Australia, NSW is by far the best at the moment.
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:13am
    - GazzaW
      
      The Aussies are not likely to close their borders to Kiwis coming from a Covid-free zone. Neither are Kiwis with the balls to up sticks and move their lives to Aussie likely to be put off by sporadic community outbursts of Covid.
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:29am
  - oob
    
    Yep. I know a disconcertingly large number of people preparing their affairs.
    
    The difference it seems to me between the exodus in the early 2000s and this time is they’re not just getting ready to leave, they’re actually giving up on NZ with no intention of ever coming back.
    
    The consensus is to “go hard, go early” before asset values crash under the next Labour or Labour-led government and crippling income, death, wealth and asset taxes are introduced.
    
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    October 9, 2020 6:06pm
- BeeJay
  
  I’m not surprised to see the stats. I was talking to my daughter who lives in Queensland and was really surprised by the daily wage rates being paid in fairly ordinary roles – like my grandson (18) can earn $30.00 an hour as a casual at Bunnings, my daughter earns a basic $36.00 an hour as permanent staff, as well as shares given by Bunnings to staff annually, my son in law is earning a basic $40.00 an hour in a wholesale bakery that supplies Supermarket chains! Compared to my younger daughter in Tauranga, in a senior HR role with a service company earning $27.00 an hour, and my younger son in Tauranga in a Senior training role earning $30.00 an hour. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a huge exodus if Labour wins and this time it will raise the IQ in Australia, and lower the IQ in NZ.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:01am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Aussie doesn’t have a Green Party eliminating inequality but…
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:52am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Like the infamous Trump quote, New Zealand is actually a shithole country. We know this because of all the Kiwis who have left for Australia. And they’re/we’re being gradually replaced with foreigners from even worse shitholes. Newsflash: this will not make NZ less shitty, but more.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:20am
  - IC5000
    
    > I was talking to my daughter who lives in Queensland and was really surprised by the daily wage rates being paid in fairly ordinary roles
    
    Don’t worry, National will dial up immigration to ensure that wages stay down. Can’t have ordinary people earning too much.
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:04am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The immigrants have basic skills such as ability to get to work on time, familiarity with numbers and written text, willingness to accept and follow instructions….so they don’t end up on the unemployed heap.
      
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      October 9, 2020 12:19pm
      - Catgurl13
        
        They also will accept any old low pay rate as they are desperate and on work visas,which employers know. They will also accept any poor treatment to keep a job which isn’t good for NZ.
        
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        October 9, 2020 1:21pm
      - WaynelSexton
        
        Agree Maggy, Boomers did a terrible job of parenting. They’re also doing a terrible job of grand parenting by making sure their grandchildren grow up a minority in their own country.
        
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        October 9, 2020 2:29pm
- RJ
  
  And these are more than likely the tourists that were stranded in New Zealand going home
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-50000-tourists-still-in-new-zealand-after-lockdown/IVJQVYIEOTNOV5XAB3N33L7R7A/
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:26am
  - 2ic
    
    The figures I gave above are net, so the actual departures are much higher than what can be accounted for stranded tourists leaving.
    
    Here are the figures broken down:
    
    March
    Arrivals: 310,145
    Departures: 373,136
    
    April
    Arrivals: 6,386
    Departures: 31,897
    
    May
    Arrivals: 5,577
    Departures: 10,111
    
    June
    Arrivals: 9,166
    Departures: 14,868
    
    July
    Arrivals: 9,037
    Departures: 18,195
    
    August
    Arrivals: 11,271
    Departures: 14,318
    
    September
    Arrivals: 11,483
    Departures: 15,637
    
    TOTAL ARRIVALS: 363,065
    TOTAL DEPARTURES: 478,162
    
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    October 9, 2020 12:17pm
    - RJ
      
      Your figures don’t prove that they aren’t tourists going home, as the article states, over 50,000 international tourists as of may 27. What ever your agenda is, it’s got more holes in it than a labour policy
      
      An old article
      
      Since March 2020, around 268,000 foreign nationals have departed New Zealand.
      
      https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2009/S00028/short-term-relief-for-visitors-and-temporary-migrants-facing-travel-restrictions.htm
      
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      October 9, 2020 1:27pm
- Isobar
  
  How many of these are NZ Citizens or Residents i wonder? I know there are still a lot of tourists and people on work visas around the country
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:45am
  - GazzaW
    
    ……and many of those on work visas have just had them extended right through the fruit picking season and the vast majority will stay in NZ over the summer months rather than head home to a Covid-ridden Europe and mid-winter temperatures.
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:34am
artemisia

Wellington City Councillor Jill Day choked back tears when the council yesterday approved …. another report.

Māori are one step closer to enshrined voting rights on Wellington City Council committees ….. Councillors voted on Thursday to send staff away to compile a report on getting mana whenua representation on council.

I expect the report will quantify the risk and cost of a ratepayer poll on the issue. Certainly hope that Councillor Day has a new pack of tissues at the ready. Is Councillor Day sufficiently robust to fulfil her responsibilities on the council?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/123020066/mori-representation-on-wellington-council-a-step-closer
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October 9, 2020 8:03am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Great, on par with lite rail down Willis Street and kumara plantations for the hospital in Newtown.
  
  How much are Maori paying per annum for this privilege? Will it be deducted from their continuing Waitangi claims?
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:57am
- Classic Liberal
  
  They need to define Maori. They want race based privileges, so better define the race.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:59am
  - alloytoo
    
    This is the interesting and stunningly stupid part, the same people who want benefit based on immutable characteristics (genetics) are happy to exclude people with those characteristics if they don’t think the right way.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:37am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Yes and how much Maori is Maori, considering most are more than half white these days?
    
    6 1
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    October 9, 2020 1:23pm
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  “Mori” yet again? Tut tut.
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:54am
NK

This election is over.
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October 9, 2020 8:04am
- Jimmy White
  
  Thank god I was not looking forward to vote. When does Judith take over as PM.
  
  47 1
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  October 9, 2020 8:17am
- peterwn
  
  Why? The fat lady is yet to sing.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:19am
  - Justitia
    
    According to Colmar Brunton there are still at this late stage 13% undecided. That’s substantial. The media recognize the danger and are doing their utmost to demonize Collins and National every day that remains.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:04am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      That 13% undecision is whether to vote Labour or Greens. So don’t expect any of them to vote National or ACT.
      
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      October 9, 2020 9:32am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Megan Woods has already sung many times during Press Leaders’ debate.
    
    13 2
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    October 9, 2020 9:31am
- LTA1955
  
  Scomo was in the same place last year yet won on the night with the 14% that was missing in the polls. MSM is this country are “screwing the scrum” if the Press debate is a measure of their impartiality.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:21am
  - Isobar
    
    Actually not correct, Scomo was polling 38-39% in the week before the election and on election night got 41.5%
    
    If the same happened here, National would only be on 33-34% on election night. Not near enough.
    
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_2019_Australian_federal_election
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:55am
    - Ian Boag
      
      Very different electoral system – hard for pollsters to handle because you have to count first, second and other preferences.
      
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      October 9, 2020 12:18pm
- rockape
  
  If the Greens drop 1% is it?
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:26am
  - SGA
    
    Not sure what you mean? If the Greens don’t make the 5%, then their vote (and all other minor parties’) gets, in effect, distributed across the parties who did get in (that looks to be 3 on current polling). So long as Labour’s share is greater than National ACT combined (which may or may not happen – current polling suggests it has a good chance), then they would still govern. At least that’s how I understand MMP.
    
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    October 9, 2020 8:54am
    - JackRabbit
      
      The polls are not accurate. People are pissed off with Cindy, and when I hear about long term Labour voters refusing to vote Labour and Greens, it doesn’t add up. Many people do not want to openly state they have had enough of the Red Menace, because they are worried about repercussions.
      
      “One free man will say with truth what he thinks and feels amongst thousands of men who by their acts and words attest exactly the opposite. It would seem that he who sincerely expressed his thought must remain alone, whereas it generally happens that every one else, or the majority at least, have been thinking and feeling the same things but without expressing them.”
      
      -Leo Tolstoy.
      
      The election will convey what NZ thinks, not subjective surmising.
      
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      October 9, 2020 9:27am
      - SGA
        
        The election will convey what NZ thinks, not subjective surmising.
        
        I’m just explaining how I understand MMP would work giving the current poll numbers. To be honest, your opening paragraph contains far more in the way of “subjective surmising” and speculation than anything I wrote. 🙂
        
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        October 9, 2020 9:43am
      - lifesgood
        
        So true. I have a whole heap of relatives who are Labourites. They are what you would call the Ponsonby set, although they don’t live there. It is more than my life is worth to tell them I am two ticks blue. Anything for a quiet life, I keep my mouth shut.
        The thing about lefties is that people who in many ways are pleasant and sensible can become stupid and nasty when they think you vote differently from them.
        
        14 4
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        October 9, 2020 10:51am
- Igotta Numbum
  
  Actually, it’s not… the fact that Labour are pushing as hard as anything to get people to vote early shows they know things are a lot closer than what the polls are showing.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:27am
  - SGA
    
    Perhaps. Or perhaps they know that their biggest enemy may be a complacency if people think they look a “dead cert”.
    
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    October 9, 2020 8:59am
  - JackRabbit
    
    I agree. Cindy is worried.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:28am
  - gorse
    
    Labour seem to think that early voters are voting for them. Wrong. I voted early, so have two of my friends. Of the three party votes cast, two for ACT, one for National. All three electoral votes were for National. A small sample of three I know, but I believe a lot more early votes aren’t for Labour as they would like.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:29am
    - Cinematic
      
      Turnout is going to be very interesting. I’ve not voted yet as I enjoy the tradition of Election Day.
      
      I work across a range of industries and most are flat tack. The usual pause at this point in the election cycle isn’t happening. This is an election like no other I’ve seen.
      
      Dunno what that means for turnout but I’d say expect the unexpected come 17/11.
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:07am
      - Flossie
        
        Gosh I hope we know the outcome before 17/11!
        
        3 1
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        October 9, 2020 1:00pm
    - igm
      
      Same here, my attitude being if I dropped off my perch or fell off bike, I would have at least registered two votes against these leeches.
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:21am
      - Steve Todd
        
        igm, for your Advance votes to count, it is crucial that you remain alive until Saturday, 17 October. If you, or any other Advance voter, dies before polling day, your / their votes are removed from the count.
        
        7 1
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        October 9, 2020 2:11pm
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      For every three early votes cast for NAT+ACT, there are 300 early votes cast for Cindy. So Keep movin and keep cash ready for extra tax.
      
      5 14
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      October 9, 2020 10:38am
    - Steve Todd
      
      gorse, you are almost certainly correct. See the 2017 Advance voting figures, here: https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/advance-votes.html, and compare the percentages for each party with the overall official result, here: https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/index.html.
      
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      October 9, 2020 2:20pm
- The Boss
  
  Thanks to Denise Lee and her leaker.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:27am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    She has a got a great name working hard for her electorate and that she gets turned on is evidence of what is wrong in the National party. I’d defend her on her record any day in that she is open to helping people on the street and takes a stick to council. Collins couldn’t be seen to be wrong and in the end she has been made to look imperfect anyway, standing over Denise isn’t a great look.
    
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    October 9, 2020 8:57am
    - Catgurl13
      
      She is choosing to be there. She is a back bencher nobody. What a little cow doing what she did to Judith was disgraceful,thoughtless and bordering on deliberate sabotage. If she doesn’t like Judith,just leave….but oh no she’s prob on a nice big salary.
      
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      October 9, 2020 9:05am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        She’s not a back bencher nobody in her electorate and your attitude shows what is wrong within the National party who throw their MPs to the dogs when it suits. Another indication of that was Walker who was doing the bidding of the ex party president and lost his career. That Boag could so confidently incite MPs to do her dirty work shows how destructive and out of touch the leadership is.
        The electorate is made up from people in the street the sort of people Denise gives a hand to without asking which party they belong to.
        
        6 25
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        October 9, 2020 9:23am
      - rockape
        
        At 33rd on Nationals list she will be leaving.
        
        18 1
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        October 9, 2020 9:29am
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Denise is incapable of getting 10 votes on her own.
      
      11 3
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      October 9, 2020 10:39am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Load of crap. She would be the future of National, a people’s person and not a back-stabber whom they have too many of already. But that is your problem not the electorates.
        
        4 13
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        October 9, 2020 11:15am
      - GazzaW
        
        If you do not live in Maungakiekie you have no idea of what you are talking about when it comes to Denise Lee. She’s a first term MP, a former Auckland City councillor, daughter of former Nat MP Graeme Lee and has been resident in the electorate for 22 years. She works outstandingly hard for her electorate and has more than adequately filled the very large boots left by the former Nat MP, Sam Lotu-Iiga.
        
        I have no idea why she made the comment re the City Council but find it difficult to understand how the Kiwiblog community who are normally so scathing of the MSM are prepared to swallow the one-sided commentary so voluminously broadcast by the media.
        
        Go Denise! Maungakiekie is right behind you.
        
        4 7
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        October 9, 2020 11:50am
    - jon
      
      I dont care how good Lee is in her electorate, she stuffed up big time here and has helped along with the action of others in the Nats to stall the parties momentum..unforgiveable..hope Lee loses her seat.
      
      6 2
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      October 9, 2020 1:10pm
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    There are many leakers to Toxic Tova. Shame on National. Judith is giving her heart and soul in this campaign and the lazy buggers in National are stabbing her in the back.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:34am
    - Lance
      
      Totally agree
      
      16 1
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      October 9, 2020 9:57am
    - MCos
      
      All the leaders give their ‘heart & soul’ in a campaign. The also have to take their colleagues along with them and it’s always been obvious that Judith Collins has been a divisive member of the caucus. Otherwise she would have been leader when Bill English retired.
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:19am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        Exactly. And it goes back even further John Key not supporting a strong coalition partner – the Maori Party. That vote is gone to Labour again, probably for a long time until National get their heads out of the sand or find a truly inspirational leader impressing passed party lines.
        
        3 16
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        October 9, 2020 11:20am
  - Close Hen Counters
    
    Paula?
    
    0 0
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    October 9, 2020 6:05pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  I fear Nats/ACT are not going to make it. My only hope is that the Greens get under 5%. That will save us from their mad policies so we will only have to suffer under Labours mad policies.
  
  These will see the economy crash unemployment and business closures soar and Labour voted out for at least 3 terms.
  
  Nats ACT will then have to rebuild the economy with prudent fiscal policies leaving more income in the hands of taxpayers slashing red tape that strangles existing and start up businesses and cut their spending cloth as do responsible citizens.
  
  On that point I was just saying to “her indoors” for the past 45 years is we as a couple had run our household economy as recklessly as the some of Government over that time we would have been bankrupted many times over.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:49am
  - jon
    
    All true BUT the Nat caucus needs to get their own house in order..as a long standing Nat Voter of 50 years im TOTALLY p….d off with the disunity and leaks of the caucus..Judith is doing her very best and is a breath of fresh air no crap politican!!
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:03am
    - rockape
      
      We need to shout it loud and clear so that the National caucus and the party board hear.” Judith stays as leader till election 2023” If you don’t like it ,fuck off to another party.
      
      26 1
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      October 9, 2020 9:32am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      I’m in the same category as you jon and that’s why ACT got my party vote.
      
      9 2
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      October 9, 2020 9:48am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        Thank God, you didn’t vote New Conservatives. A vote for ACT is vote for NAT+ACT gummit in 2023.
        
        2 0
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        October 9, 2020 3:37pm
    - MCos
      
      It’s obvious the Nats are going to lose not only to Labour, but also ACT.
      What does that tell you?
      The voters want a change on the right.
      Unfortunately the wrong people will survive the cull viz. Judith, Gerry, Nick Smith (maybe), Jackie Dean, and some bright sparks won’t.
      Their problem is nobody stands out as a leader.
      
      6 9
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      October 9, 2020 10:34am
      - Bobba Fret
        
        Lefties say Shane Reti or eventually Luxon!
        
        2 1
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        October 9, 2020 2:22pm
  - The Boss
    
    No, let the Greens govern with Labour. That will ensure the very woke lefties are properly exposed and hopefully expunged by 2023.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:26am
    - Crisplion
      
      Maybe but it will also screw the country for decades. Labour alone might not be much better, but if it’s a choice between that and the Greens getting their hands on real power, I’d prefer Labour alone. But it’s not over yet. Party vote ACT!
      
      17 2
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      October 9, 2020 10:00am
- Classic Liberal
  
  I have little hope. Talked to an acquaintance who normally votes National (farming family). Cindy this time, cos!! Why exactly? Hates Judith (no reason) and doesn’t want to change govt during covid crisis.
  
  This person had never heard of hate speech laws and what they are doing in European countries. No clue about the huge threat to freedom of speech.
  
  National needs to be more vocal about that.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:54am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    This farming family deserves to be taxed to the hilt and run down.
    
    17 6
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    October 9, 2020 9:35am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      I’d doubt that the brother in the actual farm will vote Cindy.
      
      The acquaintance is the one step removed now urbanite with fairy dust in eyes and too ignorant to see commie threat.
      
      8 1
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      October 9, 2020 10:07am
      - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
        
        He must be one of those low IQs who believe Cindy saved 80,000 lives
        
        7 1
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        October 9, 2020 3:39pm
    - chukar
      
      That’s happening anyway!,
      
      3 0
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      October 9, 2020 6:20pm
  - igm
    
    They have not pushed the stinking Green/Labour taxations of envy, the hits on motorists, the preference of ethnicities on hospital waiting lists, and the amount borrowed from China pre-Covid.
    
    7 3
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    October 9, 2020 10:27am
  - lifesgood
    
    He doesn’t live in Kazakhstan, does he? I’ve heard that one about a long term National voter voting Labour this time somewhere before. Farming families are most unlikely to vote Jacinda, she’s screwed them.
    
    10 1
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    October 9, 2020 10:57am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yup. Comfortable win for Labour + Greens. Long live the NZ Queen.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:29am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Desperate Democrats censoring.
https://thepatriotjournal.com/cali-trump-supporter-sign-highway/?
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October 9, 2020 8:05am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Desperate Democrats prepare for yet another Coup attempt.
  
  Even though they supposedly have a double digit lead in the all so trustworthy polls, for the election in 26 days from now ?
  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosi-trump-talking-25th-amendment
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:12am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Making noises about the 25th shows you how desperate but deranged Pelosi is
    
    14 4
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    October 9, 2020 8:46am
    - tf78
      
      I heard HDPA commenting on how much Trump had spent of his hair during his TV show. I would like know then how much Pelosi has spent on removing her natural facial recognition.
      
      11 5
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      October 9, 2020 9:07am
      - Rich Prick
        
        Her four eyebrows are disturbing.
        
        7 4
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        October 9, 2020 9:43am
    - Guy Preston
      
      Good morning, Sunday morning.
      
      2 1
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      October 9, 2020 11:00am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Did anyone else note that during the VP debate Kamala Harris said she wouldnt take any vaccine if Trump took it.
  
  This woman is deranged. She looks like my late Mum used to say a right nasty piece of works. If I was an American I wouldnt trust her with the nuke button.
  
  She is an Angry Woman of Colour.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:13am
  - Catgurl13
    
    I thought she had a very 1960s hairstyle lol.
    
    4 4
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    October 9, 2020 10:05am
  - lifesgood
    
    She is also pretending to be a black American when she isn’t. Indian and Jamaican heritage, I believe.
    
    7 6
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    October 9, 2020 10:58am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      On that basis Barack Obama was not a Black American.
      
      Half her parentage is Black (from Jamaica) and she is an American, so I guess you should not be surprised she is Black American.
      
      Though in fact she tends to give a lot more homage to her Indian side.
      
      4 4
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      October 9, 2020 12:54pm
  - Cantabrian
    
    What cuaght my attention was that, like oiur leader, she contorts her face when she doesn’t agree with what her opponent is saying. And smirks smugly. I don’t recall many men making similkar facial expressions in similar situations.
    
    10 5
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    October 9, 2020 12:35pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    This comment is a well-discounted stereotype, anachronistic and quite frankly: offensive.
    
    Debate her on her policies, her stated opinions, her record.
    
    Repeating tropes that weren’t reasonable under Jim Crow, and aren’t reasonable now sucks.
    
    9 1
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    October 9, 2020 3:23pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Sincerely yours,
      uppity childless white woman professional
      
      14 1
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      October 9, 2020 3:26pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I regret I have only one uptick to give.
        
        6 5
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        October 9, 2020 3:40pm
krazykiwi

Just read that WHO estimate that 10% of the world’s population have been infected with Covid-19. That is 780m people vs the 35m test-indicated infections. This estimate confirms an IFR of 0.14% which is on-par with seasonal flu, and 24x lower than the IFR of 3.4% claimed by WHO early in the year.

So, trillions of dollars plundered from private and SME wealth while governments stoke fear to increase their power over us, supported by their paid-off media sycophants.
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October 9, 2020 8:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wonder if the WHO could tell us the numbers for normal flu? No? Thought not
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:14am
  - Unity
    
    I’ve long been saying this SO. We need the regular flu numbers for the past 2-3 years so that we can compare the ‘supposed’ Covid numbers.
    
    11 5
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    October 9, 2020 8:42am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Control by fear is the idea
      
      11 5
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      October 9, 2020 9:04am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    “Covid IFR is around 0.10. It’s like a severe flu”
    
    – Johan Giesecke. Chairman for the WHO Infectious Hazards. & former Chief Scientist of the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control
    
    https://youtu.be/OU88R05hvdc?t=418
    
    Don’t be afraid of Covid. Don’t let it dominate your life ??
    
    14 7
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    October 9, 2020 8:57am
    - Crisplion
      
      It’s not COVID that’s dominating my life, it’s governments’ responses to it that are dominating everybody’s lives.
      
      15 3
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      October 9, 2020 10:15am
    - Jim
      
      So what you’re saying is that Trump went to hospital and took experimental antibodies developed with the help of cells derived from an aborted fetus (swallowed a dead rat on that one), took a powerful steroid normally used in palliative care… he did all of that just for the flu
      
      What a pussy.
      
      9 5
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      October 9, 2020 11:04am
      - rangitoto
        
        Influenza kills lots of people of Trumps age.
        
        6 3
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        October 9, 2020 11:45am
      - Jim
        
        But Trump is the healthiest specimen ever to take the presidency. He’s not afraid of the flu; the flu is afraid of Trump.
        
        I’m nowhere near as fit as Trump and all I’ve ever done with the flu is pop some Dayquil, HTFU, and get back to work.
        
        What is it also with him now singing the praises of socialized healthcare and wanting it for everyone in the US? He’s beginning to sound like our PM.
        
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        October 9, 2020 5:01pm
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Working with their official count, it would mean the implied infection fatality rate for the world, according to the WHO, is 0.13%.
      
      Guess what else has a similar fatality rate? If you guessed the plain old flu, you won the jackpot.
      
      The 2017/2018 flu season was even considered a pandemic, and according to CDC’s projected estimates, the death toll was “more than 80,000.” That would result in an IFR of at least 0.18%. Yet, nobody in this country outside of those in health care circles even remembers it.
      
      According to Oxfam International, 121 million more people could be “pushed to the brink of starvation this year,” with as many as 12,000 dying a day from hunger due to the shutdowns and restrictions on commerce and production across the world. This is on top of more people dying from missed vaccinations, malaria, and medical treatment.
      https://www.theblaze.com/op-ed/horowitz-did-who-official-just-admit-that-covid-19-death-rate-is-similar-to-that-of-the-flu
      
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      October 9, 2020 12:15pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Another recent WHO, or perhaps the same, report equated the COVID-19 and the annual flue as on par with the yearly flue. The incidence reported was 0.013% i.e. 13/100,1000 or 650 for NZ’s 5m.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:04am
  - cmm
    
    They will know the numbers as soon as China tells them what to say.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:07am
    - JackRabbit
      
      I think you will find this was a joint effort. Puppeteers are borderless.
      
      7 3
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      October 9, 2020 9:20am
  - JackRabbit
    
    10 months since our leaders knew about a virus sweeping the world and still no IFR for NZ.
    
    In any criitcal situation, risk is always evaluated ASAP. Scare Tactics were used instead Risk Analysis.
    
    The prime focus should have been to establish IFR, which requires actual rate of infection and actual mortality rate. The focus was everywhere except that. Truly a “Chicken Little” the sky is falling scenario.
    
    Do really want as PM, someone who cannot tell fantasy from reality? And who’s entourage can’t either, or they don’t have the courage to tell the Empress that she’s butt naked?
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:12am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    ‘Unrestricted Bioweapon’: China Whistleblower Dr. Yan Releases New Report Claiming Coronavirus Is ‘Laboratory Product’
    
    “Although it is not easy for the public to accept SARS-CoV-2 as a bioweapon due to its relatively low lethality, this virus indeed meets the criteria of a bioweapon.
    
    The scientific evidence and records indicate that the current pandemic is not a result of accidental release of a gain-of-function product but a planned attack using an Unrestricted Bioweapon. The current pandemic therefore should be correspondingly considered as a result of Unrestricted Biowarfare.”
    https://thenationalpulse.com/coronavirus/unrestricted-bioweapon-china-whistleblower-dr-yan-releases-new-report-claiming-coronavirus-is-laboratory-product/
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:16am
- Jimmy White
  
  The WHO clown car has Chinese number plates.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:44am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Latest Report Shows Total COVID Deaths Include Cases Where COVID Is NOT Listed on Death Certificates
  
  Based on CDC numbers only 6% of all deaths attributed to COVID-19 were deaths where the only factor in the individual’s death was COVID-19.
  
  All deaths within 30 days of a positive COVID test are considered COVID deaths with minor exceptions.
  
  ?These totals also include accidental deaths and poisonings. ?
  
  The media ignore the costs and deaths related to the lockdowns in response to the China coronavirus. Thousands of doctors have signed off petitions to remove the lockdowns and move toward a policy of protecting those who are at higher risk of dying from COVID.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-J7HF_JDyY
  
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/latest-report-shows-total-covid-deaths-include-cases-covid-not-listed-death-certificates
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:44am
- JackRabbit
  
  This Covid-19 episode will eventually go down in history books as the another great con like the Trojan horse, Pied Piper, Emperor’s new cloths, etc.
  
  Gene Roddenberry already predicted multiple planet wide cons in some of his Star Trek episodes. He was ahead of his time.
  
  TNG “Code of Honor”, TNG “Symbiosis” are two out of several.
  
  There are many websites where Star Trek fans are drawing parallels between Covd-19 episodes featuring pandemics and cures are used to control planets.
  
  “Cures as Currency and Control”
  “Power Shifts”
  
  “As was seen in Code of Honor, wielding power by using a viral cure as a bargaining tool doesn’t always work as planned.
  
  In the coronavirus situation, people are watching how leaders handle this crisis. With it being a an election year in the United States, how current elected representatives handle the issue could influence people’s votes. This could quickly shift power at multiple levels of government.”
  
  https://reelrundown.com/tv/Star-Trek-Episodes-About-Viruses-Epidemics-and-Pandemics
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:56am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Is it just a coincidence that all of your examples are fictional?
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:36am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Trojan horse was likely real – though not as in story, just a poorly remembered description of a mobile seige tower used to get the Greeks over the walls of Troy.
      
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      October 9, 2020 12:26pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        The technical term for this is an escalade, obscure english word for the day.
        
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        October 9, 2020 12:49pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Fiction arises of out of the subconscious. Also often fiction is a way of telling a story with values, morals or principles.
      
      One person can watch a movie and contemplate questions or principles raised in the movie. This group is intelligent.
      
      Other people watch movies to see the gratuitous sex, explosions and car chases. This group is shallow.
      
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      October 9, 2020 1:02pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      And besides Mike, you love fiction and believe fiction to be true.
      
      definition: (1) literature in the form of prose, especially novels, that describes imaginary events and people.
      
      definition: (2) something that is invented or untrue.
      
      This second definition describes all of Jacinda’s promises from the last election. All of which have been broken. i.e. they were a work of fiction, and she has another set of fiction promises for this election. Yet people still believe her, including you. Which say a lot about you.
      
      I’ll take Star Trek over Cindy’s election promises any day. Star Trek is uplifting, and it did not scam NZ out of $100Bn.
      
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      October 9, 2020 1:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        What could possibly make you think that I believe any politician’s promises?
        
        4 3
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        October 9, 2020 2:07pm
      - RichardX
        
        Martian colonisation of earth falls under definition 2
        
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        October 9, 2020 4:09pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  More on the ‘It’s ok when the left do it’ list:
  
  DeBlasio enforcing distancing and mask wearing against reluctant Orthodox Jews. Decides to lock up synagogues.
  
  Now, what would a republican be called for doing that, hmmm??
  
  https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/cuomo-de-blasio-jewish-community-protests-coronavirus.amp
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:09am
- Billy Collins
  
  Season flu is 0.08%, which means its almost double.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:26am
  - Surely Knott
    
    The disease is significantly less potent in Europe and the UK than it was during the first wave. If we look at Netherlands graphs
    First Wave (May) 1000 daily cases, death rate 1-200 a day. = (100 deaths/1000 cases =.1)
    Second Wave (Oct) 4-5000 daily cases, death rate 5 – 30 a day. (15/4500 = .003)
    
    The stats are similar for all European countries. It’s significantly less potent. It’s over. https://www.newscientist.com/article/2252699-covid-19-is-becoming-less-deadly-in-europe-but-we-dont-know-why/
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:11am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Year on year it can vary by as much as 700%. High of 175 per 100,000. Low 26 per 100,000
    
    NZ stats:
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4280813/figure/fig02/
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:16am
Inandout

An example of how hopeless Hollywood has become.
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f7f61b04eb99611d5f06d0a
There are theatres closing all over the US, mainly because the film industry has gone full woke.
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October 9, 2020 8:10am
- Rich Prick
  
  I don’t know about others, but I wouldn’t pay to see disabled black lesbian superheroes’ identities take on the white heteronormative patriarchy in some lame plot. CNN does that for free.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:20am
Maggie Pie

Life is full of coincidences. Like John Campbell and Clarke Gayford having the same pillow.
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October 9, 2020 8:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mind bleach please
  
  25 1
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  October 9, 2020 8:15am
- G152
  
  Thank you for that.
  Now I need a mind wash.
  Pillow talk eh
  
  14 1
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  October 9, 2020 8:15am
- Sacha
  
  Ewwww, yuk
  I thought it was a photoshopped joke.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:16am
- pdm
  
  Are they sharing it Maggie?
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:16am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And in case you missed Newshub’s lead yesterday…..
  
  http://twitter.com/NewshubNZ/status/1313658687601307649
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The first GIF comment shows it all
    
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    October 9, 2020 8:48am
  - Inandout
    
    MP, my girlfriend used to be most upset if a previous girl’s photo was on display. Useless information, just saying.
    
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    October 9, 2020 2:15pm
mark15

Good morning everyone.
Today I am on my three day weekend as my employer does not have enough work to employ me for five days a week.
I’m taking annual leave for the next five fridays then I’m on 80% of my salary.
Thanks Cindy!
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October 9, 2020 8:12am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Notice Jaspinda still has not taken a salary cut, and she is part time all of the time
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:35am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’re wrong. Labour MP Greg O’Connor tweeted a couple of months ago that his car had broken down the week he got a pay cut.
    
    8 2
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    October 9, 2020 9:08am
    - JackRabbit
      
      So everyone except Jaspinda?
      
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      October 9, 2020 9:15am
- yossarian
  
  I went straight to 80% in April, and up to 90% end of August…still at 90%
  
  For the first time in my life I’m seriously looking across the ditch.
  
  We’re screwed
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:30am
  - IC5000
    
    > I went straight to 80% in April, and up to 90% end of August…still at 90%
    
    LOL a lot of employers are doing that in Oz as well AND insisting on full time hours. Don’t forget our debts going up to a trillion pretty soon.
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:20am
- Ian Boag
  
  Possibly wouldn’t have happened if the borders were still open for tourists and students. Assuming they would come.
  
  Knocking a $2obn hole in incoming cashflow was always going to rattle though the economy. The consequences of this (closing the borders) have not finished.
  
  A proportion of KB people think this is what should have happened. Go figure …
  
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  October 9, 2020 12:28pm
  - IC5000
    
    > Possibly wouldn’t have happened if the borders were still open for tourists and students.
    
    Hmmm allowing the free flow of Chinese tourists and students into NZ. Anyone with even an ounce of common sense would think that you’d want to lose the election by advocating such a policy.
    
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    October 9, 2020 3:48pm
Spam

Great article from Karl DuFresne on media bias:
http://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2020/10/its-not-just-labour-party-that-collins.html
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October 9, 2020 8:12am
- alex Masterley
  
  Nails it.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:48am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Yes, including the air of desperation of Collins and the cheesy shots of her praying.
    
    6 28
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    October 9, 2020 9:44am
- Classic Liberal
  
  “Newshub is functioning as Labour’s unofficial propaganda arm.”
  
  One good thing: so now even an honest lefty confirms what KBs have long been saying.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:51am
- Martin Williams
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  The plight of Judith Collins is self-fulfilling. It’s not the media’s fault she’s viewed the way she is. Collins is a nasty and vindictive person. Jacinda Ardern is the opposite. That is what they both project to the media and hence to the public.
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:30am
  - lifesgood
    
    You are joking of course, Martin. Jacinda would have to be the nastiest piece of work I’ve seen in a long time. False smiles which she turns on and off for the camera, talking to adults as if they were children, stories of her tantrums in caucus when she doesn’t get her way, flumping down in her seat like a brattish teenager when she is questioned in parliament…do you need more examples? Has your adulation made you blind? You sound like a teenager with a crush. How embarrassing for you.
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:03am
    - JackRabbit
      
      “Has your adulation made you blind? You sound like a teenager with a crush. How embarrassing for you.”
      
      Jacinda appeals to those people who are shallow and easily influenced by sexual suggestion, seduction and feelings. Which is why she has chosen double meaning catch phrases of “Let’s do this, Hard and Early (fast), They Are Us”. Men also like self-certain women, and are more likely attracted to them even if its all lies.
      
      What’s the line in that Elvis song? “I’d rather go on hearing your lies, than to go on living without you.”
      
      And many women would rather be with an exciting crook than an average honest man.
      
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      October 9, 2020 1:37pm
  - IC5000
    
    > Collins is a nasty and vindictive person. Jacinda Ardern is the opposite. That is what they both project to the media and hence to the public.
    
    I don’t think Collins has the persona that the voting public will warm to in these times. Putting aside that she made significant errors in judgement in the past, maybe in different times she could have cut through but not now. People can see the shitshow the US has been through as well as Melbourne and they may not be prepared to give her the benefit of the doubt when it comes to shielding them from the effects of the pandemic.
    
    No matter how much KBers post the covid is a scam, nothing worse than the flu they can see the bodies piling up if it gets loose. I don’t think tax cuts and building more roads addresses these fears.
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:27am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Judith is real, Jabbacindy is a huge fake…
      .pull the wool from your eyes and get a clue.
      
      8 4
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      October 9, 2020 1:28pm
      - IC5000
        
        > Judith is real,
        
        A real what? She is a projection of PR spin and advertising as are all politicians even my beloved Winston and your Trump.
        
        If you stop worshipping these people you might be in a better place mentally. If people substituted the milky bar kid for Trump and acted the same way they’d soon be sectioned and sedated for their own good.
        
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        October 9, 2020 1:44pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    NZ (non talkback) Media will only give airtime to politicians not of their Grebour tribe if they are combative. Otherwise they are ignored. You can’t get elected unless you have a public profile, and you can’t get a public profile on the centre right unless you are agressive and forthright. The political playing ground is ridiculously skewed.
    
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    October 9, 2020 12:19pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    Ardern is a nasty and vindictive person. Judith Collins is the opposite.
    
    Fixed your typo sunshine! You are getting sloppy.
    
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    October 9, 2020 1:28pm
- oldfella
  
  Spam: Karl’s very perceptive piece about media bias attracted this follow up comment from someone called Ricardo.
  —
  NZ Politics Daily email from Bryce Edwards is another example…
  
  [Abridged by Mod. – For those interested, the link is repeated below.]
  
  http://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2020/10/its-not-just-labour-party-that-collins.html
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:00am
Natfan08

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
You can tell its over for National when Kiwiblog and BFD don’t even post about last night TVNZ poll…
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October 9, 2020 8:17am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  TVNZ poll? pfffttt
  
  23 6
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  October 9, 2020 8:33am
- Inandout
  
  Nat, only 14% undecided?
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:36am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who are you replacing?
  
  14 2
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  October 9, 2020 9:07am
nathie

Despite the polls (and the cheer leading from the MSM) favoring Labour, expect the election result to be close, much more close.

Because what’s not being taken into account is that MMP allows for a “second vote”, the Electorate vote, and National always does well with the electorate vote.

So the polls are reflecting the List vote (plus a chunk of “undecided” and “won’t say”). But thanks to MMP’s two votes the impact of the electorate vote will “adjust” party/list votes (up or down) to ensure MMP maintains proportionality (120 seats).

So the message to National/ACT is, keep campaigning, keep up (ensure) discipline and support your leaders!

Because National’s numbers will go up some more, and Labour will likely go down a bit. And that’s where a National/ACT combo, plus the “shy tory” vote could see an upset.

After all Labour managed to govern 2017-2020 with only 37% of the vote!

Finally for those centre-right voters thinking of voting Labour to prevent the Greens from gaining power, please forget that approach!

For the reasons outlined above plus the fact that Ardern aligns more with the Greens (than Labour and its forgotten working class), if Labour govern without the Greens still expect Ardern to announce Captain’s calls that will destroy NZ’s first world economic status as she virtue signals to the world stage.

And that is a message National/ACT need to promote, which is yes Ardern is a “nice” person but her actual policies and captain’s calls suck – they will result in loss of jobs, higher energy costs, gridlocked transport (but more bicycle lanes that hardly get used) and ironically higher emissions as NZ then imports energy from overseas. Labour cannot be trusted to ensure a prosperous future for NZ and future generations!
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October 9, 2020 8:19am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Don’t forget that the Nobel Peace prize gets announced tonight.
  It will be Jacindarella. Game over.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:48am
  - oldfella
    
    Cpt M: Yep, if Cindy wins the Nobel Peace Prize (for “Best Cuddlz While Wearing A Headscarf”) our TV bulletins will have a collective orgasm… Yuck!
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:06am
- Justitia
  
  Anyone who thinks that voting Labour will keep the Greens out is clinically insane. Labour under Jacinda and the Greens are birds of a feather. “Nuclear free moment” anyone? And anyone who thinks Jacinda is “nice” obviously has a severe learning difficulty. She is a liar. Ihumatao mean anything to you? “Read between the lines”.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:13am
- Billy Collins
  
  National has no one standing for my electorate.
  
  I also wonder whether some labour supporters will simply not be bothered to vote. Labour is so far ahead, they may decide they got enough going on right now, and its in the bag anyway.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:34am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Nat supporters generally too mature to think like that IMO.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:15am
  - Inandout
    
    BC, are you in Flaxmere?
    
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    October 9, 2020 2:23pm
- lifesgood
  
  Nice person?
  
  4 2
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  October 9, 2020 11:05am
- Ian Boag
  
  the impact of the electorate vote will “adjust” party/list votes (up or down) to ensure MMP maintains proportionality (120 seats).
  
  For picking the government the electorate vote basically makes no difference (aside from the ACT/Epsom thing and the Maori Party thing). The party vote determines the total number of MPs and the electorate vote just determines how many of that total are electorate MPs ….
  
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  October 9, 2020 12:37pm
  - nathie
    
    I think we’re talking about the same thing in different ways when you wrote “The party vote determines the total number of MPs and the electorate vote just determines how many of that total are electorate MPs” …. I agree with that.
    
    But I don’t agree with your initial bolded part “electorate vote basically makes no difference” because it does – the more electorate seats gained (71/120 at the last election) the more guaranteed seats a Party has in Parliament.
    
    Then of course once the electorate seats are determined, your second sentence that I agree with kicks in.
    
    In 2017 National won 41 of the 71 electorate seats (Labour won 29 out of the 71) .
    
    In 2017 National won 44% of the party vote but because National won a high number of electorate seats (41) they only gained 15 List seats!
    
    Whereas Labour, who “only” won 37% of the party vote and “only” won 29 electorate seats, the MMP system gave them 17 list seats (which is 2 more than what National received).
    
    So it looks like MMP disadvantages those parties that do really well, which was National in 2017, but could potentially be Labour this time in 2020 because of their probable higher party vote this time!
    
    And National may have the edge over Labour because they will likely win more electorate seats and can afford to lose some party votes (to Labour)!
    
    https://www.electionresults.govt.nz/electionresults_2017/
    
    Hey at the end of the day you and I might be saying the same thing, but I’m expressing it differently (or not as well, wording wise) as you would. If so I’d be keen to see how you would express what I’m saying in your own words so people here get a better understanding of the intricacies of MMP!
    
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    October 9, 2020 1:17pm
    - Ian Boag
      
      OK. I’ll try.
      
      MMP (like all PR systems) is based on the notion that (% of the votes) = (% of the seats) give or take a bit. Or to put it another way “every vote counts” …
      
      That stops results like 1981 where National got 35% of the vote, Labour got 37% and Social Credit got 20%. National became the government with a majority of seats and SC got 1 or maybe 2. You may feel that this is democratic (I don’t) and if so we just agree to disagree.
      
      I agree with PR because I believe that 1000 votes cast in an electorate should not be worth any more (or less) than 1000 votes spread across the country.
      
      If you take your figures above you will see that total seats as a % of total vote for each party. The electorate/list split does not matter – you don’t really have “two votes”. You vote for the party – the “electorate vote” just shuffles the list for that candidate’s party.
      
      After all, ACT will have just the one electorate seat (handed to them by National as a way of gaming the system) …. out of a total of about 10. Assuming the Greens bust 5% their number of seats will be determined solely by their % of the vote …
      
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      October 9, 2020 4:04pm
cmm

When you change the measurement method then you change the definitions of concepts like “infection”, “case” etc.

For tens of thousands of years humans have been drinking water from pools and streams and so long as it has not looked foul it was considered good, healthy water.

Then someone invented the microscope and we coul;d see the bugs in water and realised that “clean” water wasn’t really clean and later testing has completely changed the meaning of “clean water”.

We have a similar issue around the definition of “infection”.
Until we had testing, the definition of “infection” was someone showing obvious symptoms. Now we define infections according to both observing symptoms or by testing.
CV19 is the first time we’ve really had wordwide mass testing for anything. This has really completely changed the definition of “infection” to the extent we struggle to compare CV19 to anything else in a meaningful way.
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October 9, 2020 8:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Bit like the ozone hole? Always been there, but now there is better stuff to measure it. Climate change/global warming my left tit
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:32am
  - cmm
    
    Actually a bit like just about anything where the measurement method changes.
    
    At the moment one of my customers is dealing with a significant data transfer bug. It has been there for well over 6 months – probably over a year, but has not been noticed due to lack of testing.
    
    Then someone went to do some new tests for something else and noticed low throughput. The slow down was attributed to the thing they were testing, because that was when it was noticed but, in fact, it has been there for about a year.
    
    You can’t compare new measurement methods to no measurements or old measurement methods. Only new measurements to new measurements.
    
    That is also why the comparison of satellite temperature readings to historic tree ring temperature models is also broken. Until you have 30+ years of the same satellite data measurements you have nothing.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:16am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And as any experimental scientist would know..
      one of the essential things to do when introducing a new instrument into your data collection is to calibrate it against the previous instruments.
      
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/11/27/more-on-the-niwa-new-zealand-data-adjustment-story/?ak_action=reject_mobile
      
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      October 9, 2020 1:01pm
      - cmm
        
        Yup, Chemistry (or whatever) 101. School pupils fail for not doing calibrations.
        
        Even when you calibrate a new instrument, the results are only meaningful if they measure in exactly the same way.
        
        For example even a contact perfectly calibrated contact thermometer and perfectly calibrated IR thermometer will give different readings and should be compared with caution.
        
        It is many times worse when you use measurement methods that require complex models because the modelling is imprecise and non-linear. Classic example of this is inferring temperature from tree rings or using satellite measuring vs contact thermometers.
        
        NIWA is terrible for this.
        
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        October 9, 2020 1:28pm
  - Inandout
    
    Steve, and billions of dollars spent changing to ‘environment friendly’ gas. Mustn’t let that nasty old fridge gas escape, it must be captured and expensively disposed of. What is that China, you don’t care about the old gas, just let it escape like old times?
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:37am
    - oldfella
      
      Inandout: ‘Don’t trust China. China is asshole!”
      
      5 2
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      October 9, 2020 11:09am
- SGA
  
  @cmm
  Perhaps that’s why it seems more common to talk about the number of people “infected” rather than “infections” per se? That’s my guess anyway – you can be infected with something without it necessarily having gross symptoms.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:14am
  - cmm
    
    We have now reached a point where “infections” is a pretty meaningless term.
    
    In the past you felt crook and went to the doctor and (s)he said.: “It looks like you have a chest infection”. Yup, you have a well established infection.
    
    Now you’re feeling fine but someone rams an earbud up your nose, sends it to the lab and says you have an infection. Even if your body is fighting off the virus and the infection does not get established you’re still positive.
    
    How can those two scenarios be compared in any way?
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:57am
    - SGA
      
      Yes and no, cmm. As I understand it, and I am no expert, you are confused by the distinction between “infected” and “diseased”. One can be infected (and even infectious) without being diseased (which is the way you seem to be using the word “infection”). In fact various greeblies are infecting your body at a steady rate but your good ol’ immune system deals to them before you get diseased. Vaccinations won’t stop you getting infected, but they will stop you getting diseased, of course.
      
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      October 9, 2020 10:09am
      - cmm
        
        Certainly there is a technical distinction, but we’re still not measuring apples vs apples and, the distinction did not really exist until very recently (CV19 is the first pandemic to see widespread testing).
        
        In the past there was no way to really detect that someone was infected but not diseased. Being infected was inferred from presenting as a diseased patient. ie. the whole class of infected but not diseased patients effectively did not exist because they could not be detected.
        
        Now with antigen testing they are completely distinct.
        
        This is significant because now we have, effectively, a completely different way to count all the stats like “cases” and “deaths from/with”.
        
        A person with zero symptoms is now classified as a “case” or “death” – a situation that did not exist just ten years ago.
        
        Comparing stats gathered using completely different methodologies is scientifically invalid (but politically useful).
        
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        October 9, 2020 12:00pm
Maggie Pie

And i can’t lie either…..it’s this sort of thing that makes having hundreds of Twitter friends from all round the world so special 😀

http://twitter.com/Vote4flyshawn/status/1314189371252367360
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October 9, 2020 8:25am
tf78

Instead of sharing wasted votes why don’t they take the opportunity to reduce the number of MP’s to 100.
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October 9, 2020 8:25am
- cmm
  
  Pigs vote for a smaller trough?
  
  You’re joking right?
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:30am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  we need all those MP’s and probably more. It takes a term to learn the ropes sufficiently to be a minister, and each major party needs a solid pool of talent to draw from – just look how bad Labour have been in that regard, they need more MPs not less.
  
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  October 9, 2020 1:12pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump has declined virtual debate, why? Coz the media will cut him off and fuck with his replies, that’s why
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October 9, 2020 8:28am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, and also because Biden will be reading from answers typed up for him.
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:48am
JibberJabber

Rosemary McLeod goes full retard…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/123023072/the-romans-had-swords-and-slaves-trump-has-guns-and-the-poor
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October 9, 2020 8:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Full retard? She does not even need to try hard
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:54am
- BeeJay
  
  Great article from Rosemary, but to understand what she said you do need to have had a solid academic education through High School and on! Maybe what’s lacking with Trumpers on KB?
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:17am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Uni degrees here. Own business. Two fluent languages, proficiency reading a third.
    
    Not so much ‘Trumper’ as alarmed at the misrepresentation of things he said. The MSM made him sound so evil that I had to watch the actual speeches to check.
    
    And I found the MSM had lied.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:25am
  - Inandout
    
    BJ, yes deplorables eh?
    
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    October 9, 2020 2:27pm
Jimmy White

RNZ are declaring the Vice President debate a nil all draw.
They are still pushing that Trump once owned shares in the company that produced the drug that cured him? and that the CEO of the company is a member of one of his 17 golf clubs that he owns. They even said the fly that landed on Mike Pence’s head stole the show.
Non CNN Polls in the US overwhelmingly call it for Pence.
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October 9, 2020 8:33am
- Inandout
  
  JW, the US voters have seen through the media smoke and mirrors; our voters are still learning.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:38am
- Pete George
  
  538/IPSOS: Who Won The Vice Presidential Debate?
  
  The verdict: While the debate didn’t really change how people are planning to vote, Harris did improve her favorability ratings.
  
  Debate watchers were more impressed with Harris’s performance than Pence’s, with 69 percent saying her performance was “very good” or “somewhat good,” compared to 60 percent who said the same for him. They were also more impressed with the policies she outlined. It’s noteworthy, though, that both vice presidential contenders got better marks for their performance than Trump did last week — just 33 percent thought the president performed well.
  
  Harris started out more popular than Pence before the debate, with a net favorability (favorable rating minus unfavorable rating) of +4, compared to his rating of -14.
  
  Harris made a more positive impression. Pence ended up at the same -14 net favorability rating he started with, while Harris’s net favorability rating increased to +10 — which is even better than where Biden ended up after the presidential debate (+8).
  
  https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/harris-pence-vp-debate-poll/
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:55am
  - SGA
    
    To take a conservative approach – although the V-P debate probably won’t impact the overall result that much in a positive sense, it is an opportunity for one of them to “screw up” badly and have a negative effect. Neither did, imho.
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:06am
  - alloytoo
    
    To me she came across as a deeply unpleasant person.
    
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    October 9, 2020 2:16pm
- cmm
  
  The Fine People Hoax god dealt a decisive blow. Good. That is the most divisive lie that has been pushed by the Dems for a long time. Harris knew she was lying and you can see it in her body language.
  
  When they have to talk about the insects in the room then you know CNN/RNZ etc just couldn’t find anything to peg on Pence.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:28am
- Billy Collins
  
  A draw means Pence smashed Kamala “I’m speaking, okay?” Harris.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:37am
- Jimmy White
  
  Update on my post: ‘ there was a lot of screeching about what an aggressive sexist Pence was because he talked so much more and used up so much more time than Harris. CNN timed how long each candidate talked in total. Harris talked for 36:24 and Pence for 36:27. He robbed her of three seconds, the brute! Actually, if you wanted complete parity, he would have had to cede 1.5 seconds back to her. That’s barely enough time to smirk.’
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:18am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    Her horrible rude smirk every time he spoke!!
    
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    October 9, 2020 12:29pm
  - alloytoo
    
    What they neglected to mention is that the moderator persistently tried to cut him off before his time was up. Pence clearly knew that.
    
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    October 9, 2020 2:20pm
    - Batman
      
      Rubbish. Pence clearly felt he, as a man, was important enough to interrupt the two uppity women he was on stage with.
      
      I tell ya, it’s all been downhill since Salem!
      
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      October 9, 2020 3:32pm
      - alloytoo
        
        I was very impressed with Pence (a candidate I knew very little about).
        
        He was calm, measured and seemed to have command of the facts. (very different from Trump)
        
        Harris on the other hand was rude, snide and evasive.
        
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        October 9, 2020 7:59pm
  - cmm
    
    1.5 seconds?
    
    She’d have time to say either sexist or racist. Not both.
    
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    October 9, 2020 3:32pm
JibberJabber

Oh my, an interesting tweet from @Charleton_Hone
Probably won’t be up for long.
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October 9, 2020 8:38am
Maggy Wassilieff

3 Theories for Auckland’s outbreak..

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/coronavirus-covid-19-the-three-theories-for-augusts-auckland-outbreak/DMKFXSZH7IGOS3P7BWPWGR6GVU/

Note: Stones in gardens have not been tested
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October 9, 2020 8:43am
- cmm
  
  Maggy: What do you think about this comment in the article?
  
  “around 40 per cent contain too little or too degraded genetic material (RNA) to obtain a full genome sequence.”
  
  So if I understand this correctly, 40% of the samples they have are unusable for the sequencing, but from the remaining 60% they are prepared to draw conclusions as to where things came from.
  
  Hmmm.
  
  Even if they have the same genomic roots I’d think that the claim that they come from a single vector is still dubious. You could still have two or more vectors, each of which came from recently split genomes.
  
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  October 9, 2020 3:40pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It still seems early days to me to be sure that someone arriving in NZ from Europe has only been exposed to that Continent’s clade.
    
    https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fmicb.2020.01800/full
    
    Folks are still mixing in the big cities of the World… so it’s just as plausible that someone in Europe has picked up the virus from a recent traveller from Asia/Africa/America…
    
    The point is that unless there is a specific mutation that developed in NZ, we can confidently say that all the cases we’ve had have arrived here initially from crossing our border.
    
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    October 9, 2020 4:29pm
Stu2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
After watching Judith recently I think I’m seeing why her colleagues didn’t back her in previous leadership votes
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October 9, 2020 8:51am
- Prince
  
  She’s been thrown in 6 months too late.
  Twice as good as Bridges, 10 times better than Muller.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  At least Collins wouldn’t go around cancelling Taranaki accidentally while Cabinet wasn’t watching.
  Being a commo leader must be hard, being kind on view and following all the rules in public. Who does Cinders lawns?
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:20am
- Catgurl13
  
  She’s done amazingly well having to come in at short notice,pick up the pieces while fending off the left slanted media.
  
  32 3
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  October 9, 2020 9:36am
Maggy Wassilieff

Do Labour and The Greens understand anything about NZ’s economy and environment?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/the-country/news/derek-daniell-sink-or-swim-where-is-the-new-zealand-economy-headed/2VEAZPXHSGPYIPYMLM6HV7JQTM/#
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October 9, 2020 8:53am
- cmm
  
  The other problem is that most of the punters don’t seem to understand either.
  
  Voting based on feelz is much easier – no complicated thinking required.
  
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  October 9, 2020 3:40pm
Jimmy White

Bloomfield’s words of wisdom: “If you have got symptoms, I know it might be a pain but give your ticket away to the Bledisloe Cup match,” he said at yesterday’s media briefing. LOL
I thought that community spread is no longer and te Cindy has beaten the evil of Covid, thats why we are at level One
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October 9, 2020 8:57am
- Batman
  
  Yes because being cautious when 35,400 people cram into one venue is totally overdoing it right?
  
  It’s hardly outrageous to suggest people be sensible and a little cautious.
  
  Clearly you’d be a super spreader haha
  
  8 25
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  October 9, 2020 9:12am
  - Jimmy White
    
    Can I recommend for Boy Wonder the following
    https://www.continencecare.co.nz/disposable-incontinence/advance-male-guards?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrOChx4Km7AIVw38rCh3J-ADNEAAYASAAEgJanfD_BwE
    Then we might not have to put up with what you spread
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:16am
- cmm
  
  Remember Cindy said we’re only supposed to listen to what a minister says from the podium.
  
  What Bloomfield says doesn’t count.
  
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  October 9, 2020 9:21am
Bobba Fret

I think National need to highlight the Greens tax policy more as young people think as they do not own a house it doesn’t effect them.
For example, dad dies young at say 70 years of age and the mother lives alone in the Auckland family home that was bought in the seventies for $50k and is now worth $1.5 million. Say she lives until she is 90, there will be 20 years of tax accrued at 1% of $500k = $100k of tax to pay. So the children effectively lose $100k of their inheritance in tax!
Now tell me its not an envy tax.
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October 9, 2020 8:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Dead Granny Tax
  
  19 4
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  October 9, 2020 9:51am
- Parnell Gun Club
  
  “envy tax” is a good way of putting it. I see it as a “wealth fine”.
  
  16 3
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  October 9, 2020 10:15am
  - kowtow
    
    Theft.
    Obtaining by false pretences .Demanding with menaces.Robbery even , cos if you don’t pay up they’ll arrest you which is state sanctioned assault.
    
    7 4
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    October 9, 2020 12:30pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I tried explaining this to one of my leftie mates…
  she insisted that I was mistaken and the family house was exempted.
  
  What can you do?
  It’s not worth destroying our friendship over as far as I’m concerned.
  
  13 3
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  October 9, 2020 1:09pm
- Durden
  
  Taxpayers Union with DPF is already doing it. We got an interesting letter in our letter box yesterday. Reflects contents in website below.
  
  https://www.affordablehomeownership.nz/
  
  More info on the Genesis of above website.
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO2010/S00051/taxpayers-union-launches-major-direct-mail-campaign-against-green-partys-proposed-asset-tax.htm
  
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  October 9, 2020 2:53pm
I remember when

Last night on TV Jacinda refusing to say there would be more Maori in her next Cabinet.
Why do Maori vote Labour in such large numbers?
Yes they get some policy advances but does it really do anything for the overall advancement of Maori?
How many of the Maori seat holders have a genuine change of ever becoming PM?
National have had Winston, Simon, Paula and now Shane with better chances than anyone in Labour – especially the Maori seats.
Even the Greens have had consecutive Maori female leaders and NZ First have Winston, who has at least reached Acting PM.
In fact, it could easily be argued that NZ First have been much better at promoting Maori candidates for Cabinet roles.
Do the Maori Electorates not see their need for better candidates, better selection procedures and more Maori in meaningful Cabinet positions.
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October 9, 2020 9:11am
- cmm
  
  It’s the NZ version of the Democrat Plantation.
  
  12 3
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  October 9, 2020 9:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pity NZ does not have a “Candace Owens” to educate them BLEXIT style
    
    12 3
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    October 9, 2020 9:27am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    At the last election both Matt McCarten and Mike Williams actually said that Labour is the natural home for Maori.
    
    That they didn’t understand how unbelievably racist that is is astounding.
    
    21 4
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    October 9, 2020 9:58am
    - Inandout
      
      Liber, I thought WINZ was the natural home.
      
      7 2
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      October 9, 2020 2:30pm
- Catgurl13
  
  Maori vote Labour because Maori party is just too racist with archaic views. There are many Maori who work hard, have white in their families and who don’t like racist thinking.
  
  20 4
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  October 9, 2020 9:38am
- alloytoo
  
  More Maori in her cabinet?
  
  Cause her deputy leader is such a contributing talent.
  
  I’d rather have talented people like Shane Reti or Simon Bridges.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:05pm
- david
  
  If that is the question then the answer has to be
  Nanaia Mahuta (spp), Kelvin Davis, Tamati Coffey, Sid Jackson, Dover Samuels, John Tamihere, Marama Davidson et al.
  The list of useless bench-warmers Over the years on the left is actually quite extensive.
  
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  October 10, 2020 8:24am
I remember when

Batman 35,400 x 0 =0.
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October 9, 2020 9:15am
Catgurl13

Gosh that minor party debate last night was a train crash. It only served a good entertainment. David did very well getting his valid points across. James is clearly deluded and nutty. John looked like he was about to levitate and blow a valve as he got angrier raving on about inequality, and accusing Act of being a party for the rich. Winny was off on tangents raving at times about govt in the 80s and Rogernomics, Jamie does speak well,it’s just a pity he had nothing of any substance or interest to say. Jessica let James and Winston and John rave on too much,yet she cut David off several times when he finally got a turn very unfairly. At least David’s stayed on topic and had intelligent answers. The rest of the idiots we’re clearly on another planet.
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October 9, 2020 9:15am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  And Jessica Mutch-McKay was as dull as dishwater in the “Moderator” role.
  
  11 2
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  October 9, 2020 1:13pm
  - Paulus
    
    But Jessie was the winner on the night – that was reported before the programme earlier in the day.
    
    5 1
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    October 9, 2020 2:40pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The smug promo photos on TV before put me off watching any of it. Isn’t Jessica’s husband one of Ardern’ body ~~doubles~~ guards?
    
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    October 9, 2020 6:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Just got a7 day ban on Facebook for SHARING a post that some anonymous bitch reported.
Yes it was about Trump. Suckerberg can suck it
15 3
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October 9, 2020 9:24am
- Tall Man
  
  Good for you.
  
  It’s a badge of honour, something the left seem to know little about.
  
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  October 9, 2020 4:29pm
Simon

“An “incompetent” lawyer who provided “woeful” service to his client and is considered a risk to the public has been suspended from practising for two-and-a-half years.

The Lawyers and Conveyancers Disciplinary Tribunal has released a scathing penalty decision against Auckland lawyer Jinyue (Paul) Young.”

Just the type of guy if well connected could be used to funnel “donations” from the CCP he would be high on either Labour or National party list.
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October 9, 2020 9:25am
- alex Masterley
  
  I am not sure what the Tribunal was thinking with only a 2 year suspension.
  He will come back, assuming he pays the costs awarded against him, in 2 years and nothing will have changed.
  Standards are slipping in our law schools
  
  11 1
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  October 9, 2020 9:55am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Agreed. And the rest of us see it reflected in PI insurance premiums.
    
    3 2
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    October 9, 2020 10:50am
- Inandout
  
  Simon, the tinnie houses in many areas were buzzing during the lockdown. And those limousines that pulled up….gosh those guys looked so professional.
  
  4 2
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  October 9, 2020 2:35pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  There’s work for him surely as a sweeper in the Fraser House basment. Winnies friends need help too.
  
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  October 9, 2020 6:25pm
SmokerGuy

What a bunch of assholes within the National party. Less than 2 weeks until the election and they are throwing their leader under a bus. They are not fit to govern and their vote will collapse which will hopefully lead to a strong party in 3 years time. I have voted National at every election apart from 1 and it’s infuriating to see them treating voters with such contempt by acting the way they are. There hasn’t been a more important time to have a responsible government and they are more interested in playing politics.
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October 9, 2020 9:36am
- Catgurl13
  
  What do you mean bunch?….it was only one silly bint back bencher who got a bit snippy but was put in her place in the end.
  
  20 4
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  October 9, 2020 10:10am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    It is more than one by the sounds as other people have been saying about rolling Collins after the election. These f’wits have waited until now to undermine the whole campaign and it’s shameful. Wait until after FFS and do it in private not to that idiot Tova. It’s just stupid!
    
    13 2
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    October 9, 2020 11:07am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It happens most elections, some of the newbies begin to promote their own views. Sometimes they can be too extreme and their candidacy is discretely withdrawn.
    
    3 2
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    October 9, 2020 6:21pm
- Bob
  
  Smoker, what makes you think that this current diatribe against National and Judith is true. There is a lot of manufactured news in the media at present, all supporting Labour, the only ‘manufacturing’ in NZ that is attributable to labour.
  Remember the items are nearly all fronted by Tova Obrien!
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:14am
  - SmokerGuy
    
    I dislike Tova, I think she is hysterical and likes to make herself part of the story (unlike Jessica Mutch who I think is a great political reporter). However I don’t think she is making it up, it’s been happening the whole way along and this is just more of the same. Hugely disappointing
    
    4 9
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    October 9, 2020 11:09am
    - calendar girl
      
      “…. Jessica Mutch who I think is a great political reporter …..”
      
      Sadly, I have to disagree. She has limitations as a political reporter, so I was surprised to discover that she was chosen to lead and mediate the TV “debate” between the Party Leaders.
      
      6 2
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      October 9, 2020 12:29pm
      - Paulus
        
        Friends in high places perhaps !
        
        5 1
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        October 9, 2020 2:42pm
- Isobar
  
  This is probably the best assement of the state of the party i have seen on KB.
  
  It will only be when they get a drubbing in the result that they have the clear out both culturally and also of the staffers that have got them into this situation.
  
  After this time they need to seriously think hard about how they reconnect with the public and become a centre-right party of integrity again.
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:09am
- MCos
  
  If you look at it their problems go back to John Key. Everyone thought he was marvelous, but he left with a housing crises they refused to confront and a priority to balance the books rather than deal with low funding in education, health & welfare.
  Then when they lost the election half the experienced leaders buggered off.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:05pm
I remember when

Southland’s water quality largely unchanged for 10 years, Environment Southland says.
Of the 61 sites where e-coli is monitored in rivers and streams, only 10 are suitable for swimming a quality survey says.
The Regional Council sampled over 60 long-term sites in the region. Over the last 10 years there has been no evidence of any significant changes in state.
This data is different to the summer recreational bathing sites, which are monitored November-March.
Their CE said this data highlights the challenges for residents. We are working with farmers, the rural sector, business community groups and other councils to ensure we make the best decisions.
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October 9, 2020 9:54am
Maggie Pie

“Those afraid that I might give you COVID leave now”

http://twitter.com/dhershiser/status/1313957158753431552

😀 😀
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October 9, 2020 9:59am
- SB2
  
  ” They believe my lies about drinking clorax”
  
  I think the satire is directed at Donald in the guise of Adolf
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:13am
- Inandout
  
  MP, that must be the hundredth use of that clip for various issues.
  
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  October 9, 2020 2:37pm
Catgurl13

Why at the leaders debate,did the press moderators ask what car Judith and Jacinda drove, deliberately trying smear Judith?. So friggin what if Judith’s answer was petrol BMW. She also said she loves cars and had a collection which I liked. We don’t all have to get poxy EVs.I don’t want one and who has time to sit around waiting for the dam thing to charge all the time,hiking up our power bills?. Jacinda has a Hyundai EV,but she happily gets the Airforce plane out for her trips to the islands instead of even just travelling business class on a regular plane,for only a hand full of people at $150,000 per flight one way. Then also flying one certain high profile prisoner around totally unessessarily for $80. I totally resent being told what car I can purchase and drive by these woke idiots trying to push EVs while they continue to have mob phones, alcohol all made with toxic chemicals that pollute our environment while wearing their designer lables most likely make in child child labour hidden ,factories in big high population density polluting countries. Absolute hypocrites these lecturing idiots are,they can sod off!!
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October 9, 2020 9:59am
- Catgurl13
  
  That was meant to be prisoner for 80k.
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:12am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Depending on how old you are you may not have a choice. I think there is a 50 percent probability that a Labour-Green (or even Labour) government will announce a ban on the importation of petroleum powered SUVs and passenger motor vehicles by 2030 (or 2035).
  
  People have forgotten that we almost got that. In 2019, the Ministry of Transport pushed hard for a ban.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/news/115222259/government-considered-banning-fossil-fuel-vehicles
  
  Leading up to 2035, expect to see taxes on petrol powered vehicles ramp up year by year, with the proceeds subsidising EVs.
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:36am
  - alloytoo
    
    What happens when the current generation of BEVs need to be disposed of?
    
    I figure we have about 5 years before that environmental disaster hits us.
    
    3 1
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    October 9, 2020 2:25pm
    - MCos
      
      The batteries in an EV can by recycled more effectively than the batteries in internal combustion cars.
      
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      October 9, 2020 7:50pm
      - alloytoo
        
        A washed up battery from an ICE won’t kill you.
        
        BEV’s are deadly unless handled by qualified personal.
        
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        October 9, 2020 10:46pm
- alwyn
  
  You do realise, I assume, that Jacinda didn’t pay for that EV she mentiond?
  Cabinet Ministers, all of them, are provided with self drive cars at tax-payer expense. The Leader of the Opposition isn’t.
  So Jacinda, or the fellow with the pillow-case fetish, didn’t have to pony up the $70,000 or so for the car.
  We, the tax-payers of New Zealand did.
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:37am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Don’t PM’s get free cars for life or something like that?
    
    5 2
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    October 9, 2020 1:23pm
    - Paulus
      
      Ex PMs get a free chauffeur currently BMW limo car if they wish for all time.
      Helen Clark and Jim Bolger are the largest users I believe currently.
      
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      October 9, 2020 2:45pm
Critical Thinker

?BREAKING?
President Trump indicates AG Barr has enough evidence to charge Obama admin officials — including Obama and Biden — with spying on his campaign

“We have everything.

This was the greatest political crime in the history of our country, and that includes Obama and it includes Biden.

These are people that spied on my campaign — and we have everything — and now they say we have much more.”
https://www.theblaze.com/news/trump-evidence-obama-biden-spying

#TREASON

Judgement is coming.
Enjoy the show ??
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October 9, 2020 10:09am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Twitter is Censoring #Obamagate and #Russiagate Hashtags — It Could Hurt Joe Biden
  
  Twitter has been caught censoring #Obamagate and #Russiagate after new documents released this week show President Obama was briefed on the Russia Collusion spying scandal, and approved of the unprecedented spying on the Trump campaign, while knowing Hillary Clinton was behind the preposterous scandal.
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/twitter-censoring-obamagate-russiagate-hashtags-hurt-joe-biden/
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:13am
  - Batman
    
    ‘caught’ = only a small band of gullible rubes are pushing it, so those topics don’t actually trend like more important things do.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:52am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Another ‘Russia Collusion’ Conspiracy Theory Collapses as Cambridge Analytica Investigation Ends
  
  Cambridge Analytica, a data firm linked to “Russia collusion” conspiracy theories involving the Brexit movement and President Donald Trump’s 2016 presidential campaign, did not, in fact, collude with Russia or misuse Facebook data.
  
  Democrats in the U.S. — and “Remain” holdouts in the United Kingdom — had claimed the firm abused users’ private Facebook data, and aided Russia. But a three-year investigation in the UK that concluded this week found otherwise.
  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/08/another-russia-collusion-conspiracy-theory-collapses-as-cambridge-analytica-investigation-ends/
  
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  October 9, 2020 4:14pm
RW Capitalist

I watched the “junior” leaders debate.
The loser, masquerading as a moderator…Jessica Much
Instead of moderating she
Through soft ball questions at the greens an Maori party….while attacking the other 3.
At one stage, nearer the end, she refused to put 2 questions to David Seymour, after giving the greens and Maori party ample time to answer and glossing over Winnies answer……Considering one of them was about Education and would have given Seymour to show case Acts successful policy.
The winner, to spite the interference of the Mod.
rankings
1. David Seymour……policies and looked like a leader.
2.JLR…as mush as I hate to say so, reasoned arguments and policies.
3.Winnie…his usual self.
4.
5.
6. The Maori party…..All about how hard done by they are and it’s all someone elses fault, and the rest should pay.
7. The Greens…..unworkable policies esp. economic , total lack of knowledge about how business works, how jobs are created and a refusal to admit that without a strong economy, you can’t look after the environment in 2020.
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October 9, 2020 10:12am
Maggie Pie

Jimmy Shaw on now with Kerry Woodham. Expects the ‘Wealth Tax’ to bring in 9=10 bill a year!
All it means is homeowners will be taxed an additional 2k pa for every mill their house is valued at.

As my partner just remarked, “Can hardly f–ing wait” 🙁
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October 9, 2020 10:19am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Not a chance that the Greens wealth tax will get over the line. Even if the Greens get in (and I hope they don’t), even Labour won’t be stupid enough to allow that to happen.
  
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  October 9, 2020 10:32am
  - surfing
    
    Capital gains is a very mild tax compared to a wealth tax – and that didn’t even get close to passing. Jacinda seemed against it from the start.
    
    Expect to see a stampede out of this country like never before if wealth taxes eventuate.
    
    It’ll solve chinese immigration for those who are against, at least.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:43am
  - Bob
    
    Yes they will captain.
    Grant knows now; that he and Jacinda have dug such a deep hole in the economy, that the only way to keep NZ afloat, without any economic development plan, is to ‘steal from the motivated and responsible element of the country’ before they emigrate.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:57am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Wealth tax and cgt
    Incredibly bad ideas.
    EG
    Young couple buy a house on the edge of the city (only one they can afford), live, work, bring up their family for 40 yrs.
    In the mean time the city grows out to meet them.
    Their house value rises from cheep, to expensive.
    They are now having to sell THEIR house because not only have the rates skyrocketed, so have their taxes…..Don’t forget….it’s 40 yrs on, they are retired and on a fixed income.
    The Greens/Labour screwing your grandparents for……………………..ever.
    
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    October 9, 2020 11:29am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You might have not tought about putting some numbers against your assumptons. The maths will not support you.
      
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      October 9, 2020 2:01pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Inflation. In 40 yrs a small suburban house will be well over a couple of million. Envy tax all round!
        
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        October 9, 2020 3:39pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        You do the maths….prove me wrong.
        I am taking a real world answer, from several people I know……
        
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        October 9, 2020 3:46pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Can you explain what value is created from money supply price inflation? If not, don’t advocate a tax which would beggar the least and be avoided by the richer.
        
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        October 9, 2020 6:09pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Price rises through increases in the money supply provide no surplus wealth to tax.
      
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      October 9, 2020 6:06pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Where does the money come from to pay such a tax?
  
  Is this a new scheme to dispossess those who can’t afford the wealth tax so the house will fall to the State and they will become tenants?
  
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  October 9, 2020 6:13pm
I remember when

Karl du Fresne – 8 Oct
Tova O’Brien on criticism of the media.
“Political journalists get used to it,” said O’Brien (oh nail me to the Cross)
Who said religion taught you nothing?
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October 9, 2020 10:19am
Catgurl13

Whose dumb idea was it to bust out those horrid stale log looking cheese rolls?….
Are they even toasted at all?…..they looked horrible and so boring…..I would give them a miss too…..blerk!!!
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300127964/election-2020-the-walkabout-the-selfies-and-the-cheese-roll-snub
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October 9, 2020 10:20am
RW Capitalist

Maori party refuses to work with National
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/literacy-programme-benefit-more-communities
Labour have NEVER done anything of value for Maori.
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October 9, 2020 10:21am
- Catgurl13
  
  Maori party refuse everything that isn’t a big handout.
  
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  October 9, 2020 1:34pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori Party very flakey.
  
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  October 9, 2020 6:02pm
  - alloytoo
    
    10 years ago the Maori party seemed to have some people with Mana. Nowadays not so much.
    
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    October 9, 2020 8:10pm
I remember when

More than 100 tractors and other vehicles at Gore rally against water regulations in their present form.
Many farmers said the rules, in their present form, are unworkable and don’t take the weather into account.
Gore Mayor, Tracy Hicks, spoke at the rally stating that the unending changes to regulations made keeping up impossible.
The farmers say the Government received 17,000 submissions on the new rules but that they have not been listened to.
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October 9, 2020 10:30am
surfing

Sounds more like North Korea than the USA!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/tv-radio/123033697/spitting-image-wont-be-shown-on-us-tv-amid-fears-it-could-upset-president-donald-trump
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October 9, 2020 10:42am
- Critical Thinker
  
  The executive producer never mentioned Trump ?
  
  He said the overall political environment was difficult – in other words, they were worried about backlash from both sides of the fence.
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:07am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Bit like most of our media cut off the end of Cindy Poppins video? Where Cindy kindly cuts off a guy’s head for coughing.
  
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  October 9, 2020 12:47pm
Maggie Pie

James Shaw using the example of the Netherlands and the success they achieved as a country, with their laws on Cannabis reform.
What would be wrong with looking at Singapore?

Just saying.
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October 9, 2020 11:03am
- SB2
  
  Marijuana is illegal, illgel many times over in Singapore,
  
  https://www.quora.com/Is-marijuana-legal-in-Singapore
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:17am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Has he been to the Netherlands? You can’t walk far in Amsterdam without being offered hard drugs.
  
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  October 9, 2020 11:17am
  - Prince
    
    Nonsense. Anyone believing that, in 2020, the party leader shouldn’t respond to questions without taking a break to consult their caucus is living in the 1950’s.
    
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    October 9, 2020 1:58pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Actually he is correct to the extent that the Netherlands have dialed back the availability especially to tourists.
      
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      October 9, 2020 4:22pm
  - oob
    
    Bang on.
    
    It’s been 20 years since I was there with my partner so I’m a little out of date, but here’s what happened.
    
    We were wandering around doing touristy things and without realising it, kept hearing the same thing without really paying attention to it, it was almost subliminal.
    
    When we did finally tune in, we realised it was “Coke. Weed. Pills.” being said quietly by the (mostly African) drug dealers.
    
    Once we became aware of it we realised how often we were hearing it: about once a minute and I’m not exaggerating.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:17pm
SB2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I see National’s walking, talking, posting, sleeping election bill board has had a bit of a whinge regarding Judith and her party’s profile by the medai.

Tony Stuart, could it be that both the voting public and media are unimpressed with Judith’s disorganised campaign making up policy on the hoof?

‘Incredibly poor form’ – Judith Collins critiqued after on-air policy announcement”

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/incredibly-poor-form-judith-collins-critiqued-after-air-policy-announcement
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October 9, 2020 11:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Back benchers don’t make policy or promote or promote their own views at election time.
  
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  October 9, 2020 6:01pm
BAM

Was it Simon Bridges who leaked the Denise Lee email to Tova O’Brien?
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October 9, 2020 11:33am
- nathie
  
  Why would he, when JC has promoted him into the top 4 and has two high-profile portfolios?
  
  Plus he knows what that disloyalty was like when JLR was doing it to him, plus the enduring damage media wise it caused to the entire Party (not just the leader).
  
  Judging by the way Ms O’Brien worded her report last night I wouldn’t be surprised if she is peddling “old news” (the same, initial point of contact a few days ago) as being “new leaks” when it wasn’t!
  
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  October 9, 2020 12:57pm
  - nathie
    
    Oops meant “ensuing” not “enduring” but at the end of the day it’s more-or-less the same thing, when it comes to the fickle MSM!
    
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    October 9, 2020 1:29pm
oldfella

SB2: read Karl du Fresne’s excellent blog piece that others have already mentioned in this thread. Karl is a long time (mostly) Labour voter who is horrified by the media’s bias when it comes to JC and National.
http://karldufresne.blogspot.com/2020/10/its-not-just-labour-party-that-collins.html
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October 9, 2020 11:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/trump-throws-biden-off-his-game-by-wearing-luscious-womens-wig-to-debate?
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October 9, 2020 12:15pm
Maggie Pie

Better the father does it now…..

http://twitter.com/SJPFISH/status/1314144523732357120
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October 9, 2020 12:40pm
Catgurl13

I would rather burn my house down and give all my money away than let Labour and Greens get their dirty little self entitled hands on it.
11 4
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October 9, 2020 1:36pm
- MCos
  
  Save your story for the judge.
  
  4 6
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  October 9, 2020 5:04pm
  - sooty
    
    Why? If it doesn’t have a mortgage and required insurance and gets a pet,he can do whatever he bloody wants!
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:32pm
Maggie Pie

We were just driving back home after dumping some fresh duck innards and heard John Tamihere on Magic Talk.. he called Neale Jones “a Tug-Mussel”

Told Shaun Plunkett it was an old Westie saying LOL!!
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October 9, 2020 3:09pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Kamala Harris – the best Debate moments. Great comment from Johnny McEnroe. Just answer the question was the request.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B1RMCyjGNws&t=10s&ab_channel=MrReagan&fbclid=IwAR3JsaODXYNWpj_UEpaQpFIc2WY09y2HC0HH4efcrojHTFb-NWYgh9mCgjk
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October 9, 2020 3:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Oh, even the fly had a MAGA hat!
  
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  October 9, 2020 3:35pm
Tony Stuart

Once again, Jacinda Ardern and Andrew Little ignored the advice of their officials, who recommended that the election be rescheduled to 21 November, five weeks later than the date they decided, 17 October.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/427970/electoral-commission-wanted-november-election-date

This week, there have been complaints from Maori voters about voting arrangements, the Vision NZ Party complained that there was no circle to tick beside their name on voting papers, and candidates, especially those in Auckland, have been restricted in campaign activities because of Covid gathering rules.

If the General Election becomes a farce, due to administrative or organisational reasons, the blame will lie fairly and squarely with Ardern and Little for putting the Electoral Commission under unnecessary pressure. Nobody would have complained about a 21 November election, except the incumbents, who have the most to lose.
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October 9, 2020 4:09pm
- Mike
  
  Your argument seems to rest on the notion that delaying the election gave less time to organise it.
  
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  October 9, 2020 4:30pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That’s right. The EC wanted nine weeks to make sure everything was in order, with the appropriate Covid precautions. Little and Ardern gave then four weeks, which immediately put the EC on the back foot.
    
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    October 9, 2020 6:22pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That’s nonsense – delaying the election gave extra time to arrange everything.
      
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      October 9, 2020 7:17pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  7 days to go. Can Jaspinda make it without mentioning Trump’s battle with Covid, and what she would have done?
  Nope. Watch this space. TDS like you have never seen. Labour policy? Crickets, other than FREE shit
  
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  October 9, 2020 5:02pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Because delaying the election would likely hurt Labour’s re-election chances. More job losses will occur now that wage supplement payments stopped. The economic results of the shutdown will begin to bite more. Covid-19 was not eliminated, only delayed and the longer we wait the more likely it is that it will come back in time to hurt Labour.
  
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  October 9, 2020 5:54pm
  - oob
    
    I had lunch with a solicitor at a major Auckland firm the other day.
    
    This solicitor told me their insolvency department is projecting they will be extremely busy in July.
    
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    October 9, 2020 10:31pm
Prince

Radio NZ has been caught out in an error in their financial planning.
RNZ denies it was an ‘error’, and said it had just assumed the short-term injection would continue.
Having listened to RNZ recently, I agree it wasn’t an error.
More like a ‘blunder’, a ‘gaffe’, a ‘fiscal hole’, a ‘blow to their fiscal credibility’, a ‘mortal wound’, an ’embarrassing miscalculation showing inexperience and unsuitability for the role’, a ‘fatal flaw’.

There are a few other errors which no doubt will be put together in a damaging and amusing 10 second sound clip.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300127738/election-2020-rnz-caught-out-for-multimillion-dollar-budget-bungle
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October 9, 2020 4:34pm
- Jack5
  
  Radio NZ has gone to hell since the virtual take-over by tribal radio in the coup led by Labour’s Wily Willie Jackson.
  
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  October 9, 2020 5:53pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  oh no….
  don’t tell me that some poor navvies at the bottom of RNZ’s greasy pole are going to be axed.
  
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  October 9, 2020 7:47pm
  - sooty
    
    Better to shaft a few high paid elitist announcers, than a heap of navies at the bottom!
    
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    October 9, 2020 9:27pm
I remember when

So Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend shot a policeman first.
1. Black murdered by policeman may have suffered drug overdose event.
2. Spithood victim was probably suffering mental illness possibly outside police training experience.
3. Breonna Taylor’s boyfriend shot policeman first.
They sound like good reasons to hold BLM marches before all the facts are known.
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October 9, 2020 4:40pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/123032480/nationals-terrible-blue-comes-back-to-bite-it

Martin van Beynen: Labour lapdog to the end.
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October 9, 2020 4:56pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Yeah but he acknowledges – intentionally or not – that without Cindy, Labour is NOTHING
  
  11 2
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  October 9, 2020 5:47pm
  - Prince
    
    Actually, no. Beynen is one of the very few journalists able to view politics dispassionately.
    This is a very fair article, although I’m not sure Bridges really has it. Time will tell.
    
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    October 9, 2020 7:10pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Yes, and I agree with him about Bridges and Bennett.
    Whatever the real motivation was in getting rid of those two – it was wrong.
    Maybe Mr Hooton and Bolger might tell us one day.
    
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    October 9, 2020 7:22pm
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Maybe, but without Cindy, Labour is still NOTHING…
      
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      October 9, 2020 8:13pm
I remember when

It will be interesting to see if the Election Date decision by Jacinda is front page news in the media.
Surely a kind considerate Government would have given the Electoral Commission recommendations serious thought.
Firstly, we must protect the general public from possible covid-19 infection.
Secondly, the Electoral Commission must be certain that they can fulfill all of the duties required.
Thirdly, there must be a strong probability that it would be fairer for the Parties participating.
I wonder why they went ahead with the earlier date, after receiving information suggesting likely problems?
Incidentally a person, who works around parliament, was puzzled by how tense some COL politicians had become during the extension of the parliamentary term
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October 9, 2020 4:58pm
MCos

This is quite good
https://twitter.com/krupali/status/1314394522760015872?s=21
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October 9, 2020 4:59pm
ex-golfer

Another escapee:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300126831/woman-escaped-auckland-managed-isolation-facility-nobody-knew-until-she-tried-again

What I don’t understand is why we don’t simply put these people on the next plane back to where they came from.
The come to NZ to get away from where they are, and then decide to take the piss flouting our MIQ rules.
Well, if they don’t like the rules – they can be tossed out of the country.
No questions asked, no trial, no expense.
Just get rid of them.
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October 9, 2020 5:04pm
Lee C

On election day the public will perform the biggest political practical joke in history and Jacinda Ardern will fail to achieve her majority.
15 2
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October 9, 2020 5:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Sad //
  
  4 3
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  October 9, 2020 5:39pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Please, let it be so!
  
  11 1
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  October 9, 2020 6:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

That moment when someone says, “I can’t believe you would vote for Trump.”
I simply reply “I’m not voting for Trump.”
I’m voting for the First Amendment and freedom of speech.
I’m voting for the Second Amendment and my right to defend my life and my family.
I’m voting for the next Supreme Court Justice to protect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
I’m voting for the continued growth of my retirement 401K and the stock market.
I’m voting for a return of our troops from foreign countries and the end to America’s involvement in foreign conflicts.
I’m voting for the Electoral College & the Republic in which we live.
I’m voting for the Police to be respected and to ensure Law & Order.
I’m voting for the continued appointment of Federal Judges who respect the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
I’m voting for our jobs to remain in America and not be outsourced all over again to China, Mexico and other foreign countries.
I’m voting for secure borders and legal immigration.
I’m voting for the Military & the Veterans who fought for this country who gave the American people their freedoms.
I’m voting for the unborn babies that have a right to live.
I’m voting for continued peace progress in the middle east and in support of Israel.
I’m voting to fight against human/child trafficking.
I’m voting for Freedom of Religion.
I’m voting for the American Flag that is disrespected by the Democratic Party.
I’m voting for the right to speak my opinion & not be censored.
I’m not just voting for one person, I’m voting for the future of my Country.
I’m voting for my children and my grandchildren to ensure their freedoms and their future.
What are you voting for?
Bit hard for some NZ dicks to understand – socialist upbringing?
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October 9, 2020 5:41pm
- Harriet
  
  ok I’ll start it then.
  
  “I can’t believe you would vote for
  Cindy.”
  I simply reply “I’m not voting for Cindy.”
  I’m voting for the First Amendment and freedom to hear her continually speak.
  I’m voting for the Second Amendment and my right for you to fund my life and my family. 😎
  
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  October 9, 2020 6:26pm
  - Harriet
    
    I’m voting for the next Supreme Court Justice to protect the criminal and his Bill of Rights.
    I’m voting for the continued growth of my retirement UBI and the drug market. 😎
    
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    October 9, 2020 6:39pm
- MCos
  
  Precious little of that has anything to do do with the issues your actually voting for unless you’re American.
  
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  October 9, 2020 7:05pm
info@cruzpro.com

Before using Google to check other customers reaction to an advertised 4K 10-300×40 telescope I clicked on the ad. After seeing the poor reviews I decided not to purchase. Since then everywhere I surf on the internet I am inundated with multiple ads for this piece of rubbish. Some pages have up to eight ads for the same crappy product.

Obviously these companies don’t have the intelligence to understand that this type of advertising blitz turns more people off than convert them into buyers. Some of the affected people even take the time to warm others not to look at their ads.
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October 9, 2020 5:42pm
BananaLlama

Can someone explain to me why National keep leaking like sieve to the media?
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October 9, 2020 6:15pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Poor leadership and internal rot.
  
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  October 9, 2020 8:23pm
rockape

Why are the two being prosecuted for NZ First trust matters getting name suppression till after the election when Winston tells us its nothing to do with NZ First?
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October 9, 2020 6:44pm
nathie

Newshub headlines a “Tova” article called “Judith Collins has crack at Simon Bridges for contradicting her on TV over internal polling” and Tova’s report selectively edits Simon Bridges answer which Tova uses to bait Judith Collins with.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/nz-election-2020-national-s-judith-collins-has-crack-at-simon-bridges-for-contradicting-her-on-tv-over-internal-polling.html

But here’s the full context to Simon Bridges’ comments from this mornings AM Show (and prior he outlines how he is fully supportive of JC and her campaigning), he says at the 4’12” mark that as he’s not part of National’s leadership group that he (naturally) doesn’t get to see regular polling!

it seems that when Parliament was is session the MP’s got to see the polls at their meetings, but now that they are not at Parliament, apart from the leadership group presumably they don’t always during “campaign calls” meetings (perhaps one can’t guarantee a zoom type call will be fully secure perhaps).
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2020/10/nz-election-2020-simon-bridges-rejects-right-wing-call-to-vote-labour-to-shut-out-greens.html

But Tova’s Newshub’s 6pm news article then selectively edits Bridges comment to only include the part where he himself hasn’t seen a poll result since Parliament last met a couple of weeks ago (which was a direct answer to a direct question about when he last saw a poll – not other MP’s or the leadership group)!

Sure, sounds like not all MP’s are receiving regular polling info if we were to believe Tova (I do agree ideally they should), but this comes across as yet more lazy journalistic muckraking rather than an objective article!
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October 9, 2020 8:50pm
hookerphil

World Food Programme named as winner of 2020 Nobel Peace Prize

How good is that!!!!!!!!
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October 9, 2020 10:54pm

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