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October 19, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 19 October 2020

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General Debate

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Tony Stuart

Has anyone else wondered what the outcome might be had a close contact of the Covid-positive Auckland port worker attended the rugby yesterday?
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October 19, 2020 8:02am
- RRM
  
  One more lockdown to remind you who’s in charge. But lo and behold we’ll be out of it again just in time for a kiwi Xmas and summer holiday. Where would we be without her?
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:05am
  - Mike
    
    Is that you Billy TK?
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:38am
  - Notsofast
    
    Brand New and tyrannical!!
    
    “Swedish authorities want to bring in local lockdowns to stem the rapid spread of coronavirus in the country, experts have revealed.
    The move marks a new approach in Sweden’s handling of the virus – after the country kept bars and restaurants open while the rest of the world shut down in March.
    ‘It’s more of a lockdown situation – but a local lockdown,’ Johan Nöjd, who leads the infectious diseases department in Uppsala, told The Telegraph.
    (…)
    Dr Joacim Rocklov, professor of epidemiology at Umea University, said that the new local measures showed Sweden quietly shifting strategy.
    ‘What’s happened in the last couple of weeks is a movement towards a similar model to what has been used in Norway and many other countries,’ he said.
    ‘It’s very obvious that it’s a new strategy, but still the newspapers report on “the Swedish strategy” as if it were fixed in March.’
    He said he thought the resurgence in infections in countries with a high number of cases in the spring challenged the belief in herd immunity.”
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8850953/Coronavirus-Sweden-Authorities-bring-local-lockdowns-Covid-cases-soar.html
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:51am
- mikenmildagain
  
  No, I hadn’t.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:08am
  - lifesgood
    
    It requires a working brain to think.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:32am
    - Steve Todd
      
      How many kindly- / well-received guest posts have you put up here, lifesgood?
      
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      October 19, 2020 1:35pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Herd immunity comes a bit quicker?
  
  Be careful what you wish for Tony, with a personality cult and a majority, Dan Andrews could be a best case scenario!
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:09am
- Brian McDonald
  
  No, but I’d like to see the 14day testing period for those that might contact Covid when doing their jobs tightened, and possibly tighter restrictions that the public are informed about.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:09am
  - Simon
    
    Calm down Brian. Calm down. TS is only speculating.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:27am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Yes he is Simon.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:03am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Yes Brian I agree. I’d actually like to see all restrictions about everything tightened substantially. There are too many people here in Aotearoa who just seem to think they can go about their lives talking to people, working, attending sports functions etc willy nilly.
    
    The sooner we all have chips implanted up our anus the sooner we’ll know we’re safe. Somebody needs to be in control if we are to survive this terrible time and thank God the country spoke clearly with (almost) one voice last Saturday.
    
    Those traitors who failed to speak with one voice should be rounded up and dealt to. Restrictions need to be effective if we are to eradicate these pe spread of discord amongst us.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:32am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Oh wow! You stole my thunder…
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:44am
    - Tall Man
      
      Hear hear ?
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:57am
    - Observer of Life
      
      Dave: LOL … I’ll fess up. I’m one who needs to be rounded up as I wasn’t part of the ‘Red Team’ vote. I’m awaiting my anal implant.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:05am
      - rockape
        
        Be careful what you wish for. We now have the gayest parliament in the World, thats a major achievement!
        
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        October 19, 2020 1:44pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      There are special clubs for people like you Dave. I’m sure they could provide for people who want things shoved up their butts and get whipped for being a traitor. Enjoy yourself.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:09am
      - Dave Mann
        
        A good riposte Brian. Touché! ?
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:18am
      - mark15
        
        Can I have vaseline please?
        Ha you make me laugh.Off to Gulag.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:05am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        So you know where these clubs are do you Brian?
        
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        October 19, 2020 11:22am
    - Bob
      
      Rest assured, in the New Year the THOUGHT CONTROL process will be instigated for the politically incorrect minded people; the 50% sheeple have demanded it at the polls.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      International lawyers suing for COVID lockdown and false testing as crimes against humanity.
      
      The PCR tests aren’t they are only DNA fragment multipliers being misused. They are not diagnostic at all. They are multiplying DNA to 45x replication. May be useful for extracting DNA from ancient mammoth bones or King Tut but breeds error with each multiplication round. They might find a molecular fragment but can tell nothing about it’s history.
      
      A 48 minute lawyerly dissertation. A cuppa is recommended occasionally as the speaker is virtually non-stop. Not too technical but very informative.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kr04gHbP5MQ
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:10am
      - krazykiwi
        
        RT-PCR: At 30x replication no one, not even a patient near death with any coronavirus would test ‘positive’. At 60x replication every human alive today would test ‘positive’. The ‘science’ behind selecting 45x is, unbelievably, that it’s half way between 30x and 60x ..!!!
        
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        October 19, 2020 2:44pm
- Bob
  
  Too much fresh air and sunshine at the Rugby for Covid to survive.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:37am
- Martin Williams
  
  Clearly the solution is to shut all the ports in New Zealand.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:19am
mandk

Congratulations to this couple:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/first-homes/123016304/minimum-wage-no-help-and-on-the-ladder-at-25-heres-how-they-did-it

Just goes to show that, if you are realistic and determined, you can own your own home at a reasonably early age.

Onward and upwards for them.
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October 19, 2020 8:05am
- The Real Tony
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Um, except they did have help.
  
  “Combined KiwiSaver” – did they both have the govt $1,000 freebie? What about the Employer contributions to their little nest egg; a forced contribution that can’t be used as an offset against wage rises.
  
  Govt grant, as a couple that would be $10k since they bought an existing house.
  
  No help? Yeah right.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:24am
  - krazykiwi
    
    The received no more than is available to anyone else. The difference is they demonstrated thrift, enterprise and determination. Life will present them opportunities denied entitled and/lazy others. More power to them.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:36am
    - cmm
      
      “Life will present them opportunities denied entitled and/lazy others. ”
      
      Life will present them with the same opportunities as everyone else. They just chose to get off the couch and reach for them.
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:42am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Hmm not necessarily. When you are presented with an opportunity, if you make wise choices you get a range of subsequent opportunities that would not have otherwise been available to you. It’s a compounding succession, and ‘successful’ people have learned how to make wise choices that accelerate this process.
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:28am
      - Paulus
        
        And the incoming Government will want every pound of their earned flesh they can get.
        
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        October 19, 2020 1:44pm
      - cmm
        
        KK: I agree, but those pathways to success are still available to all.
        
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        October 19, 2020 5:24pm
  - Sacha
    
    They got the help that is available to any couple who make the same preparations for the future.
    They are special in that they actually got their act together and made it happen.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:37am
  - surfing
    
    It also used to be possible for minimum wage couples to buy an old house in auckland too. Plenty of people used to — in fact, many of those people are now multimillionaires, thanks to sky rocketing prices.
    
    Stories like the one reported were no even news back then. Now, they are like hen’s teeth.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:39am
    - gump
      
      And if you read the story carefully, you’ll discover that they paid $400,000 (the full amount they were allowed to spend) for a one bedroom house in Marewa – a decile 1 neighbourhood in South Napier.
      
      The fact that people here are promoting this is an example of the system working really helps to explain why National just got destroyed at the ballot box, and why Labour will get destroyed if they can’t implement structural reforms which address the problem.
      
      It’s not normal or sustainable or even in the national interest for residential properties to trade at this price level.
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:52am
  - cmm
    
    C’mon Tony….
    
    $2K of taxpayer cheese is far from a real hand out.
    
    And the Employer contributions are really just part of wages. Every time an employer has to pay extra employee-related expenses (tax, KS, H&S, maternity leave, …) it all comes out of the employee expense account and therefore effectively out of the money that the employer will pay in wages.
    
    Punters would be unwise to think that they’re scoring when the employer is forced to give them KS. It is really coming out of the employee’s pocket.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:40am
    - cmm
      
      Geez this moderation edit thing is crap… and so are betablockers!
      
      ” Every an employer ” -> “Every time an employer”
      
      “Punters would be wise” -> unwise
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:45am
    - redqueen
      
      Mainly because of how we’ve structured KS. If we’d gone down something like the Aussie system, or converted our current system, you’d be receiving a significant tax break and would be rewarded for your thrift. Instead, both the founders and modifiers of KiwiSaver have made it nothing more than a cash savings scheme (often with the objective of buying a first home now, obviating its entire supposed point).
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:33am
      - sooty
        
        Along with it been a rort for the kiwi saver providers!
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:18am
      - redqueen
        
        It certainly has been a boon for them…but with limited immediate benefit to the taxpayers involved.
        
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        October 19, 2020 12:06pm
    - IC5000
      
      > It is really coming out of the employee’s pocket
      
      Doubtful. A business would rather the extra go to the owners than the employee. Maximising shareholder returns is the main aim of a business. Anything else is communism.
      
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      October 19, 2020 10:23am
      - redqueen
        
        No, because it simply forms part of the total cost of employment. When I hire someone, I don’t just look at the salary, I look at the total cost coming out of my RC and offer accordingly. The company I worl for even ‘adds on top’ KS, but I still end up being charged the bottomline expense for the person and pay accordingly.
        
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        October 19, 2020 11:57am
    - [email protected]
      
      No free meals. Everyone who buys products off the employer pays a higher price when the employer is required to pay the employer’s KiwiSaver share.
      
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      October 19, 2020 10:59am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not the point Tony. The doom and gloom merchants need to open their eyes a bit.
    
    As I’ve said before, those who make the effort seem to get all the luck.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:59am
Benedict Yu

I was out of reach on a Lewis Pass hike on weekend. Just looked at the election results. At least I had a good weekend.
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October 19, 2020 8:07am
- softail 1450
  
  B Y ,There are many beautiful walks around that area both short and long ,even the drive is magnificent .
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:51am
Monty

buckle up everyone – Cindy and Grant are rampant die hard socialists – we have three years of expansion of the state by stealth into every part of our lives. It will be portrayed as about caring for the “disadvantaged” the good news is that there is no money – the bad news is the rich pricks will need to pay their “fair share”
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October 19, 2020 8:08am
- surfing
  
  When you say socialist, do you mean they will start nationalising private companies (ie, taking ownership)? eg, Spark could be forced into government ownership.
  
  Because that is die hard socialism.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:14am
  - Mike
    
    Probably by ‘socialism’ he means business as usual.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:40am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Call it whatever you like. Still amounts to high and wasteful spending and dozens of wealth destroying policies. I guess there is no name for that be cause internationally most governments don’t do it.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:43am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      The name for it is incompetence and actually most governments do it, largely because they are forced into it by public demand.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:19am
    - surfing
      
      If you say someone is a die hard socialist then what do you mean?
      
      NZ is a capitalist society with property rights and a free market, and a well functioning legal system.
      
      To make claims that the majority PM is a die hard socialist infers that she intends to replace capitalism with socialism. A die hard socialist would do this.
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:20am
      - Paulus
        
        Currently we have limited property rights and a free market and a well functioning legal system – expect that to have an even more limited future ready for the next election .
        Andrew Little will see to that.
        
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        October 19, 2020 1:49pm
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Yes they do plan to nationalise private businesses. Not by direct taking, but by setting up state entities in competition with the private sector, then using subsidies, regulations, and union problems to cause the private providers to fold or at least lose market share.
    
    They did that to kindergartens and partially with Kiwibank, and plan to do the same with doctors and housing.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:20am
    - Mike
      
      Nonsense, absolute nonsense.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:24am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Just wait & see.
        
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        October 19, 2020 11:13am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      They’ll need very good luck or severe restrictions to do that with doctors. Mobile skills.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:46am
      - Nigel Kearney
        
        The PHO scheme makes it easy. It’s no longer viable for GPs to rely on patient charges to survive so they are the mercy of whatever restrictions the government imposes as conditions of PHO funding. There will not be a shortage of actual doctors because they will bring in immigrants. Quality will suffer but that’s true of everything the government does.
        
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        October 19, 2020 11:45am
    - marcw
      
      Charter schools were adsorbed, next will be meals in schools – a whole new “growth” industry.
      
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      October 19, 2020 2:26pm
  - mark15
    
    No,they’ll nationalise digital media first.
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:07am
    - softail 1450
      
      mark15, She’s already carried out what all tyrants do before moving on with their agendas ,,,disarm the populace and many on this blog cheered her for doing so.
      
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      October 19, 2020 10:55am
- Tempist
  
  Well on the upside, after getting over 50% of the seats in Parliament – enough clearly to govern alone – the PM wasted no time in saying she’ll take 2-3 weeks to form a new Government…
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:14am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    Mallard as speaker again, something to look forward to . . .
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:34am
    - Frank the tank
      
      In fairness it’s the least of our problems unfortunately.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:32am
      - sooty
        
        Get your protection on early.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:21am
  - krazykiwi
    
    In fairness, the last few weeks of a campaign are brutal. Ardern will be exhausted and has a toddler who has probably not seen enough of mum. I don’t begrudge her a bit of a breather.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:39am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Well I mind. There are many people who are exhausted with children who can’t afford to down tools on full pay for happy family time.
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:46am
      - Flossie
        
        One hundred upticks for that BY
        She was dead keen for the job, and accepts a large salary so suck it up
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:25am
      - sooty
        
        Along with she has extra help aswell, nanny, granny, Jethro, cook, cleaner, gardner, driver,
        It’s not as though she’s hard done by!
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:25am
      - IC5000
        
        > Well I mind. There are many people who are exhausted with children who can’t afford to down tools on full pay for happy family time.
        
        Write to the PM then. I’m sure she will take your feelings into consideration as you do hers.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:41am
      - softail 1450
        
        B Y, $10.000 a week to be accurate. Jeeeeez all for being a “great communicator” and NOTHING ELSE.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:59am
    - Michael Duke
      
      I am sure she will want to spend some time with Neave as well ?
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:48am
    - lifesgood
      
      She shouldn’t be in the job then. It’s tough at the top.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:37am
    - theoldbloke
      
      She had her offspring “”available”” all thru the campaign. So not an excuse.
      
      Her two weeks will be doing the feelz with all the new MPs and getting told what to do by her inner circle.
      Remember she doesn’t have Winnie to tell her what to do this time.
      So lots of touchy feelie about who will be minister of what and what the PR strategy will be. ie the major focus for her..hehe
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:50am
  - tf78
    
    Tempist – working group required you see.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:39am
  - Tricati
    
    It will take that long for her to find enough within her lot to read & write to fill the portfolios.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:43am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I gather that’s to wait until she sees the final election results, which will determine the final composition of Parliament. I wouldn’t read too much into it.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:54am
  - Ruawai
    
    Labour will now govern forever. The reason I say this is because the Greens now have a safe seat, Chloe is very young so will be in the safe seat for a long time, Greens will therefore always be in parliament now, many right voters will vote Labour going forward to keep the Greens out of Government. The Labour will forever be the Government for fear of getting the Greens in Government. Unless there is a chance of getting over 50% for National and Act combined in the future.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:56am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Nah. These things go in cycles, always have done and always will.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:20am
      - theoldbloke
        
        haha.
        Thats what the Germans thought in 1933.
        
        She”ll be right, this bloke will get moved on he only had 33% of the vote
        
        History can always provide an example of almost anything.
        
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        October 19, 2020 4:55pm
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      It’s not a safe seat. National held it last week. Also it’s mostly surrounded by blue areas and susceptible to boundary changes. It will be very hard for her to hold it even if Labour stops trying.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:26am
      - rangitoto
        
        She will now find out what is involved being an electorate MP. Let’s see how she copes with that.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:15am
      - Charmaine Hawke
        
        She is also going to find being an electorate MP is very different from being a list MP and if she does not perform for her electorate they will toss her out.
        There are quite a few Labour MP’s who are going to find this out as well.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:26am
      - rockape
        
        She could lose it after the specials.
        
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        October 19, 2020 1:58pm
    - kowtow
      
      ‘many right voters will vote Labour going forward to keep the Greens out of Government.’
      
      If they did and if they do they’re idiots who should not have the franchise.
      
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      October 19, 2020 10:07am
    - softail 1450
      
      Ruawai ,at least we know now why Chloe dumped her heterosexuality ,it was to impress all the Luvvies in central Auckland, and along with her uncanny ability to speak 10 words a second whilst throwing her arms and head around like a crashing helicopter I for one am not surprised she won.
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:08am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Forming a new government also means deciding on Ministers and confirming she does have the majority. The latter will be a huge decider in saying NO to the Greens.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:11am
  - Bob
    
    She is a very slow thinker, can’t really respond to off script questions. Such a skill requires a depth of knowledge and experience, both lacking within the Labour Party; only had to listens to Mike Williams on the AM show this morning
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:47am
  - NewInoffensiveName
    
    Almost as if she is waiting until the results of the USA election are known before committing herself? Spygate scandal fallout incoming!
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:51am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Waiting for Biden to win? Hahahaha
      
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      October 19, 2020 5:46pm
  - theoldbloke
    
    The power of PR in a climate of fear.
    Great isnt it…..NOT.
    
    Welcome to the new Kardashian election technique.
    ie No history of achievement, no plan for the future. Just plenty of TV exposure and PR.
    
    Pondering History as one does.
    
    “”It is a hopeless misjudgement to think that one could force a dictatorial regime upon the xxxx nation. […] The diversity of the xxxxx people calls for democracy.””
    
    — Theodor Wolff in Frankfurter Zeitung, Jan 1933
    Remember then the
    Times Man of the year 1938
    
    What could possibly go wrong in Beautiful NZ:-)
    
    and yes I believe we can learn a lot from history.
    Especially about politics which feeds on the human condition.
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:17am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Another KB prophet, they’ve had a bad run recently – right up to Friday predicting miracles. Try another job – one that doesn’t involve bleating.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:20am
  - Dougal10
    
    Are you also not a kiwi blog prophet as you seem to always be here and make predictions .
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:26am
  - softail 1450
    
    Brian Mcdonald,42 people want you to “try a job that doesn’t involve” breathing ,LOL.
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:12am
- Simon
  
  That can only happen if we have a chicken shit opposition. Wait what.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:22am
- cmm
  
  They’re big on talk and light on action.
  
  In other words I doubt they’ll actually enact half the stuff they talk about.
  
  Remember how they (and the Green pondscum) sabotaged the partial asset sales by saying they’d nationalise AirNZ and the power companies? Remember they said it would be done within a few days of getting in power?
  
  And yet, here we are three years our – no nationalisation – not even a peep – from any of them.
  
  Same deal with the water tax on farmers etc etc.
  
  The only point they have actually followed through on is killing Naki for #CinD4UN!’s climate change credentials.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:33am
  - tf78
    
    cmm, maybe Winston did more for us than we realize.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:41am
    - softail 1450
      
      Tf78 ,I heard Winston say “don’t worry sunshine we’ll see who gets the last laugh”, holy shit what have we done to ourselves ?
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:17am
      - IC5000
        
        > Tf78 ,I heard Winston say “don’t worry sunshine we’ll see who gets the last laugh”, holy shit what have we done to ourselves ?
        
        Lol suck on that dead rat.
        
        Party vote ACT was a really great idea wasn’t it. Now you can take the full length of a Labour Green coalition. Unlubed.
        
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        October 19, 2020 3:12pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Hang on CMM, didn’t the the Taranaki region go almost totally red (apart from Ms Kuriger) on Saturday?
    So they must have been happy enough to be “killed”.
    I found that a bit surprising given all the anti Labour rhetoric that earlier came out from there about the demise of the oil and gas industries.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:45am
    - Unity
      
      Inexplicable and the same with regard to the farmers. It seems most, if not all, farming electorates turned red??!! What am I missing here?
      
      24 5
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      October 19, 2020 8:54am
    - Ruawai
      
      Yep the New Plymouth electorate are like chickens voting for an early christmas.
      
      23 2
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      October 19, 2020 8:58am
      - Charmaine Hawke
        
        From what family in New Plymouth told me Johathan Young could be a bit of a twat (their words not mine) at times in the way he treated those he thought beneath him.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:28am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      There was a lot about the election that was quite literally inexplicable, and this is one aspect. Taranaki has two major industries; oil & gas, and dairying, both of which have been kicked in the guts by Labour and the Greens in particular. It defies any commonsense.
      
      Some people have speculated that National voters ticking Labour to exclude the Greens was behind Labour’s record vote. However that doesn’t even start to explain so many electorates, featuring largely unknown candidates, going red.
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:59am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Pretty clear there was a 3-4% switch to labour in election vs 3 polls immediately before hand, so yeah, clearly a lot of Nat voters going tactical Labour to exclude Greens. Allah be praised that it worked, would have been insult on top of injury if it hadn’t.
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:07am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        But it didn’t work, did it? The Greens are back in Parliament, likely with ten MP’s including Ricardo March-Menendez, who is so far to the extreme left he makes Marama Davidson look like a centrist!
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:13am
      - Gravelroad
        
        Tony Stuart – money talks.
        I believe many people didn’t want to risk the Labour free Covid money tap being turned off – which they perceived would happen under National.
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:14am
      - DeepBlue
        
        It was a Covid election. 100%.
        
        People don’t care about anything else right now. They want to stay in this NZ bubble and Jacinda will keep us safe. They don’t want any change, they want to freeze time.
        
        Come mid next year and the recession, 2020 hindsight is going to look more like buyers’ remorse.
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:16am
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        I think the inexplicable is simply the play out of the effects of a cult/popularity culture that when waning got reignited by a series of independent random events, the final one being Covid, which created a lot of fear. As a member in our house suggested last week when the polls came out – here comes Gloriavale 2. Rational thinking has very little to do with it.
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:39am
      - SGA
        
        But it didn’t work, did it? The Greens are back in Parliament
        
        You still don’t get it, do you? It hasn’t anything to do with whether the Greens got back or not. It was about the Greens’ ability to be the tail that wags the dog. If anecdotal reports are correct and some voted Labour largely to minimise the Greens’ influence, then they got exactly what they wanted.
        
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        October 19, 2020 9:41am
      - nickle
        
        It might be a good idea for National to spend some money researching these reasons. If people voted en masse to keep greens out by voting Labour, then they were completely believing the TV polls (which were obviously skewed by Covid).
        
        If they were voting red twice, then their understanding of MMP is simplistic. Comments I was hearing and reading before this election, appeared to show that a lot of people still don’t understand how MMP works, after how many years?!
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:00am
      - Apteryx
        
        Many electorates going red also suggests that people don’t understand MMP.
        
        The election was a referendum on Jacinda, particularly her handling of covid, and took place against a backdrop of much of the rest of the world going down the covid gurgler.
        
        Fine, that’s good luck for Labour. But why did so many electorates change hands?
        
        I think that people voted for Labour candidates as part of their support for Labour/Jacinda, not realising that voting for a Labour electorate candidate has no bearing on the number of seats Labour get in parliament (absent overhangs).
        
        On Saturday many people cast both votes using rose (red) tinted spectacles.
        
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        October 19, 2020 10:23am
      - SGA
        
        Many electorates going red also suggests that people don’t understand MMP.
        
        Well.. perhaps that’s some of it, but the Maori electorates seem to have worked it out ok! And although Swarbrick won Auckland Central, Labour won the party vote their quite convincingly.
        Maybe some people were genuinely annoyed a National and wanted to make it show (e.g., Gerry Brownlee?)
        
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        October 19, 2020 11:20am
  - cmm
    
    three years our -> three years out
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:46am
    - Unity
      
      For me the results are an unmitigated disaster for our country. I put it down to 2 words – covid and sheeple. I wonder if we are actually stuffed.
      
      However, it is always said that the sun will come up tomorrow but it didn’t come up yesterday and it hasn’t done so today. Are the heavens weeping?!!
      
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      October 19, 2020 12:31pm
      - Batman
        
        From 2008 to 2017, the same comment was posted on the lefty blogs every three years.
        
        Circle of life. We aren’t stuffed, just in the ‘yang’ phase of ying and yang.
        
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        October 19, 2020 1:47pm
      - IC5000
        
        > I wonder if we are actually stuffed
        
        No, you’ll be ok. No need to be such a drama queen. Resilience builds character and if you learn some Te Reo you’ll come out a much better person.
        
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        October 19, 2020 3:17pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Watch this space on farmers. The only reason farmers weren’t charged for water was New Zealand First would not agree and made it a bottom line in the coalition agreement.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:50am
  - Tall Man
    
    I agree. They’ll talk the talk and then fuck off.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:01am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I think now is an excellent time for them to nationalize Air NZ. Chalice, poison, quaffing; minimal assembly required.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:48am
- stewmar
  
  Another three years of the Punch and Judy Show
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:00am
- thirteenstars
  
  They don’t need money to do their worst.
  
  Those hate speech laws and internet filters were on the fast track before the election and they’ll be enacted in parliament’s first term. A fair proportion of the comments on forums like this simply won’t see the light of day.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:07am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The internet is global. NZ govt can’t control what is said on international sites, so if they try to enact censorship in NZ it will just drive commenters to sites hosted internationally.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:18pm
- Hard Cheese
  
  Like throwing a few extra coins on the plate, the rich pricks will be asked to “chip in” a little bit more. As if they weren’t already paying most of the tax bill.
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:11pm
  - Batman
    
    Well the new 180k / 39% rate will certainly be in the next budget.
    
    Can’t really say I’m torn up about it…
    
    But the real outrage is the lack of upwards movement in the bands.
    
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    October 19, 2020 1:54pm
- rockape
  
  reality will moderate their socialist nature.
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:46pm
- House
  
  The state expansion won’t be by stealth.
  First off the rank will be KiwiSmelter (I can’t see KiwiAlluminium being easy enough to say).
  Followed by KiwiIhumatou (deal done already)
  KiwiPhone (Everyone needs an affordable unlimited mobile data plan for that COVID tracking)
  KiwiFood (Super Market for those special areas of society that especially vote red)
  KiwiFarm (already underway in the McKenzie Country)
  KiwiTechnic (Polytechnics dealt to already)
  KiwiAir (Air NZ loan will be called in, and they can’t afford the interest anyway)
  KiwiFuel (State owned fuel company that under cuts the existing suppliers and does hydrogen too)
  KiwiPower (How else will they get to 100% renewables when the existing suppliers can’t afford it?)
  KiwiWater (will solve the issue of Iwi wanting their “fair share” of water royalty by paying them a % of every litre used that we all have to buy from the one supplier)
  
  And all the above and more will have an unpronounceable Maori department name to make sure everyone goes to compulsory cultural training in order to not cause offense.
  
  Bung “kiwi” on the front of anything and the public are fair bursting with pride and anyone that questions such a move is branded as a racist, neo liberal capitalistic traitor that has no place in Kiwi society.
  
  That should shut down any discussion without the need to be accused of anti free speech.
  
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  October 20, 2020 6:58am
RRM

For many years during the Key government, the prevailing attitude of many on the left appeared to be “how could the public be so STUPID? When will they realize how WRONG they’ve been? When will they SEE SENSE and vote for us again?”

It didn’t work, it didn’t win friends and it didn’t influence people.
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October 19, 2020 8:09am
- Mike
  
  And that is a common attitude on Kiwiblog now. Role reversal.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:42am
  - RRM
    
    Yes.
    
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    October 19, 2020 2:48pm
- surfing
  
  I said earlier that you need to understand the opposition to defeat them.
  
  The attitude on kiwiblog is that everyone who voted labour must be stupid.
  
  Just like, I am right and everyone else is wrong mentality.
  
  The tick system here is a joke, and if you believed it was even fractionally representative then national would have 80% of the votes.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:51am
  - Isobar
    
    100% agree and just like Labour supporters found out during the Key years – keeping this mentality going will ensure a long time in the opposition benches.
    
    Dont make the same mistake as labour and it supporters did. What the party does in the next six months will largely determine how they do in 2023. Get it right they could easily knock off labour (but will involve appealing to the centrist voters to get them back) or get it wrong and ACT could soon become the biggest opposition party.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:39am
  - lifesgood
    
    LOL! But they are stupid…wait and see. To be honest I don’t mind that National didn’t win. The mess Labour have made would have been almost impossible to repair in 3 years. By 2023 the stupid will have had a reality check good and proper.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:40am
    - Kiwi Dave
      
      Yeah. Let’s call them stupid and deplorable too. That’ll persuade them to see the light.
      
      On the other hand, the occasional, delicately-phrased I-told-you-so with a clear alternative policy might persuade some.
      
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      October 19, 2020 5:09pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Every generation have to relearn the lesson that tax and spend vote-yourself-rich govts just make everyone poorer, unemployed and miserable.
      
      This was the most superficial election campaign in NZ history, abetted by media that have abandoned the past ideals of free press to chase after the money waved in front of them by their new Labour paymasters. They’ve become Labour’s propaganda arm. The $75 million NZ news media were promised pre-election if Labour were to be re-elected was likely a huge factor in their win as it ensured their strong and uncritical editorial support.
      
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      October 19, 2020 8:27pm
  - calendar girl
    
    Representative of what? The voting public? Or the readers of Kiwiblog? (There is a difference.)
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:50am
- Ruahine
  
  RRM.
  At last the people have now come to their senses.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:55am
- Aliog
  
  Completely agree RRM…was thinking exactly the same thought this morning.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:04am
- Tall Man
  
  That may be but seriously, a party elected without a single policy is a little bit weird, especially when coupled with the absolute incompetence shown in their first term.
  
  I believe their own supporters will turn against them first and fast. There will be fuckall kindness in supply over the next three years.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:06am
  - Crisplion
    
    But they do have a policy – just one admittedly – snuck in under the radar of the COVID election. That policy is to bury free speech with UK-style ‘hate speech’ legislation.
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:46am
- Brian McDonald
  
  RRM 8.09am
  
  The left were also in-fighting then RRM (at the time of the Key government) and had no discipline much less a clear message. There is a consensus the new Government will stay in the middle and it has said what things they will address. It’s relationship with business and the farmers is sound and supportive.
  
  There were some excellent comments from the TV1 panel on Saturday night. Liam Hehir, a woman Espiner and a third person whose name I missed was also very good. We saw a big increase in the younger vote – somewhere National weren’t even looking for votes – despite that the popularity of JA with younger voters and the middle-aged as been evident for 3 years.
  
  Like it or not, that is the pulse of the new Government, consensus and without isolation policies, to get the economy gunning.
  
  As said yesterday the early schooling on this that I can remember seeing, was Bill English, progressive and disciplined.
  
  That doesn’t mean that Labour necessarily copied part or all of that view, or indeed that they have the discipline to get it up and running for the future but they clearly have got the mandate to give it a go and good luck to them.
  
  I would support that in any party and that may be part of where the votes came from – people that want to give it a crack or see others having a fair opportunity to do so.
  
  It’s also probably nationalistic and identity of self as kiwi, a New Zealander or Aotearoaean (if there is such a word.) Who wouldn’t be happy with the idea that it is kiwis who get the crops off the trees this year for example and that kiwis get to fill the jobs in NZ first as the PM said.
  
  Tony above is still bewildered about the New Plymouth vote – despite that the writing was on the wall, and also the reason many Kbers are upset and mocking the majority, the Country has changed and will unlikely be going back.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:53am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    “Who wouldn’t be happy with the idea that it is kiwis who get the crops off the trees this year for example and that kiwis get to fill the jobs in NZ first as the PM said.”
    FFS Brian: the available Kiwis already won’t go to pick the crops. They expect the trees to come to them in the middle of suburbia!
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:23am
    - Bob
      
      They expect the fruit to ‘just turn up in the supermarket’
      
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      October 19, 2020 12:07pm
- House
  
  The trick to making sure one doesn’t get hung up on ideology is that every time the party or politician you like or support does something, ask yourself how you would feel if the other side did the same thing.
  Reverse that for when the other side does something, i.e. how would you feel if the party you support did what the other party just did?
  It is an attempt to address bias and look at decisions logically without just killing off what could be a good idea or just accepting something as a good idea that is, well, crap.
  I hope I’ve explained that clearly enough, but it looks a bit waffly, sorry about that.
  
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  October 20, 2020 7:05am
I remember when

So how did the ‘protest’ vote go and are you ecstatic about the result?
Are you like the National Party reviewing what you will do in the next three years?
In the words of Jubilation T Cornpone
“With the ammunition gone and faced with utter defeat,
Who was it that burned the crops and left us nothing to eat?”
Let’s Labour on for another three years!
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October 19, 2020 8:10am
- Sacha
  
  Loved that show! Let L’il Abner cheer your Monday Morning –
  
  https://youtu.be/_TfcJ82FAhw
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:45am
- RW Capitalist
  
  For those who don’t know how relevant the comparison to Labour this is.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TfcJ82FAhw
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:01am
- Tall Man
  
  Nope, just hunkering down and will make the best of the situation.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:07am
Critical Thinker

Emails Reveal a ‘Massive National Security Issue with Joe Biden’

The hard drive combines emails and text messages that show a massive involvement with companies controlled by the Chinese Communist Party. Also, there are 25,000 images that show a drug-addled, depraved lifestyle.

The Russia disinformation excuse — and it is an excuse — collapsed when Fox verified the information with someone on the email chain. The Biden campaign has yet to say these emails or photos are not real. The reason? Hunter’s lawyer sent emails trying to recover the hard drive. These are real — the Bidens know they are real — and they are going to have to deal with that reality.

I don’t think Joe Biden today could get a security clearance, so I don’t know how in 16 days he’s going to stand and run for to be commander in chief of the United States.
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6202126701001
https://www.revolver.news/2020/10/steve-bannon-hunter-biden-hard-drive-exclusive-interview/

And after the first Hunter Biden laptop bombshell story broke, Twitter immediately locked the accounts of the White House Press Secretary, The Trump Campaign and the New York Post.

After corruptly blocking readers from accessing the New York Post’s expose on Hunter and Joe Biden, Twitter is now throttling circulation of a Fox News story detailing Biden’s business ties in communist China.
https://twitter.com/emilyjashinsky/status/1317272046204866563

All to protect Joe Biden.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EkkFlkVUYAAXEix?format=jpg

Reconcile ☝️?
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October 19, 2020 8:12am
- Than
  
  Oh good, another inane conspiracy theory from a gibbering alt-right website. How much involvement do the Lizard People have this time?
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:44am
  - Fletch
    
    Oh good, another inane conspiracy theory from a gibbering alt-right website.
    
    It’s not a conspiracy if it’s factual. They have the laptop. It is Hunter Biden’s – no question. It has thousands of photos of him on it. Dodgy sexual photos and of him doing drugs. The receipt, when he dropped it off, was signed by him. His lawyer phoned and emailed trying to get the laptop back. So there is no question. And the laptop fell into the ownership of the repairman legally because Hunter failed to pick it up in 90 days. So the new owner can do what he wants with it. Contrast this with Trump’s tax returns, obviously obtained illegally, and the other Trump stories from “anonymous sources” which can’t be confirmed. The media have no problem publishing stories from unconfirmed sources and stolen material if it hurts Trump.
    
    And the emails can’t be questioned either. You have embedded, date-stamped, server data. And several of the other email recipients confirm the emails are genuine.
    
    Ditto with the separate lot of emails provided by Hunter Biden’s former business partner who is doing time in prison. They are from his own personal account which he gave the password for, which again show Hunter and Joe monetizing Joe’s position in government to do deals with the Communist Chinese.
    
    It’s not a conspiracy it if is true.
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:15am
    - Than
      
      It’s not a conspiracy it if is true.
      
      Agreed. But this is not.
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:06am
      - krazykiwi
        
        A rebuttal requires some thought, and some evidence-based refutation. Folding your arms and stomping your feet doesn’t generally work.
        
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        October 19, 2020 2:34pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  The Joe Biden Meeting Happened, The Emails Are Correct and Joe “Big Guy” Biden Took 10% of the Equity
  
  The guys on the emails said absolutely the meetings happened. This is not off of some Russia intelligence operation. That emails correct, the meanings correct and, by the way, that 10 per cent of the equity is Joe Biden’s.
  
  Hunter’s lawyer tried to email the repair shop to get the laptop back and has since then contacted Bannon and his team to retrieve the sensitive hard drive.
  
  Hunter Biden’s lawyer has come to us both with phone calls and with emails saying, ‘hey, I’ve got to get the hard drive back.’
  
  President Trump tweeted – “Hunter Biden’s laptop is a disaster for the entire Biden family, but especially for his father, Joe. It is now a proven fact, and cannot be denied, that all of that info is the REAL DEAL.
  That makes it impossible for ‘50%, or 10%’ Joe, to ever assume the office of the President!
  Joe Biden is a corrupt politician, and everybody knows it. Now you have the proof, perhaps like never was had before on a major politician. Laptop plus. This is the second biggest political scandal in our history!
  Corrupt politician Joe Biden makes Crooked Hillary look like an amateur!”
  
  Publicly, the former vice president has said he’s never spoken to his son about his overseas business dealings.
  
  But the emails seem to indicate otherwise.
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:55am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    JUST IN: Joe Biden calls a lid on all public appearances until Thursday night’s debate
    
    https://twitter.com/SVNewsAlerts/status/1317908973522124801
    
    #PANIC
    ??
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:37am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    BREAKING: Ukrainian lawmaker says another laptop belonging to Hunter Biden has been seized by law enforcement—‘involving evidence of corruption connected to the Biden’s’.
    https://twitter.com/SVNewsAlerts/status/1317934496205869056
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:55am
- krazykiwi
  
  Cognitively impaired. Crooked. If he’s the best the Dems can come up with, just imagine the worst. Incredible how many people will swallow truckloads of dead rats in support if Biden primarily because they hate Trump.
  
  On that topic, I was at dinner with a senior public servant friend at the weekend. Well respected, works directly with ‘his/her minister’. The topic if Trump’s Covid-19 illness came up. “I hoped he’d die” was their comment. I was shocked at the vitriol.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:58am
- Simon
  
  Yep. TDS types who said it will be great to have a “good person” in the White House.
  
  They are now latching onto Russian trutherism. That Biden corruption is Russian disinformation.
  
  What ever gets them through the night.
  
  The hard core TDS / Russian truthers types will believe anything. Its the independent voters that will see the Biden corruption.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:03am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  So the Chinese govt obviously have a whole lot of compromat on Biden coming from these dodgy dealings. He has to be excluded. Ditch him now and run Kamala.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:09am
- freethinker
  
  If Donald is re elected and I hope he is I suspect Facebook twitter & Google will find themselves in the spotlight and under fire, possibly being split up like Ma Bell with similar benefits.
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:01am
- virtualmark
  
  Sigh. You are a useful idiot for the Russians. “Critical Thinker” is a joke name.
  
  This is the same playbook the Russians and Trump campaign used in 2016 (Weiner laptop), but with a few refinements first seen in 2017 French election.
  
  The Russians somehow hack or obtain a Time Machine backup of the target laptop. They copy the contents to a “clean” machine that they have bought. They salt that machine with “emails” based on hacked documents. Then they add “child porn” on too (see https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/09/world/europe/vladimir-putin-russia-fake-news-hacking-cybersecurity.html).
  
  You fell for it.
  
  You really really really wanted to fall for it.
  
  But the adults can see that this is a scam. Even the adults in the NY Post newsroom wanted nothing to do with this (https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/18/business/media/new-york-post-hunter-biden.html?action=click&module=Latest&pgtype=Homepage).
  
  My prediction: Rudy’s going to jail in 2021 for aiding election interference by a foreign government. Both the FBI and CIA warned of the exact Derkach-Giuliani connection several months ago. Law enforcement has been watching this for ages. Barr would never prosecute, but if Biden wins then Rudy’s in trouble.
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:03pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Ohhhhh… So that explains why Hunter Biden’s lawyer made a phone call and emailed the shop owner to get Hunter’s laptop back.
    
    It also explains why Joe “Big Guy” Biden won’t answer questions about the laptop, and why he has also now gone into hiding until the next presidential debate… it all makes perfect sense now ?
    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/wow-crooked-joe-biden-go-hiding-starting-monday-debate-thursday-night-final-week-election/
    
    Thanks Virtualmark ??
    
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    October 19, 2020 1:27pm
    - Batman
      
      Can you hear that, everyone? That’s the sound of the NY Post story crashing down around Rudy and Steve’s ears.
      
      The newsroom is now openly saying it doesn’t stack up… Which is why they had to get Hannity’s booker to write it. Classic clusterfuck.
      
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      October 19, 2020 1:59pm
    - virtualmark
      
      So let me get this right. Hunter Biden, who lives in Los Angeles, flew 5,000km across America to drop off a MacBook Pro with a legally blind computer repair technician who happens to be a Trumpy.
      
      Then he forgets all about this computer, and doesn’t go back to claim it.
      
      Then the computer tech reads through all the emails on the computer, and decides to (a) make a copy of them and (b) give that copy to Rudy Giuliani and Steve Bannon.
      
      They hold on to the drive for several months and then release PDFs of some files on it to tame Murdoch media two weeks before the election. But they won’t let any media see the raw files themselves, or in any way independently verify those files.
      
      Mean time the FBI and CIA have been warning all and sundry that Rudy is working with the Russian intelligence agencies, and Steve “Out on bail on fraud charges” Bannon is living on the yacht of Xi Jinping’s tame “independent” oligarch.
      
      The NY Post journo who had the most contact with the story won’t put their name to it. One of the two NY Post journo’s who does end up with their name on it is ex-Hannity, and the other didn’t know her name was on the story until after it was published and doesn’t want her name on the story.
      
      This story is a bust. The “Biden Burisma fraud” angle didn’t get any traction so now they’re going with the “child porn” angle to get the QAnon crowd riled up.
      
      Mate. Even if this is Hunter’s computer – and that’s wildly implausible – then the evidence chain of custody is still totally f#!ked up and anyone with any critical thinking capacity would have to be concerned that the files on that computer are fakes that were planted there for political purposes.
      
      But hey, you really really really want to believe. I get it.
      
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      October 19, 2020 2:43pm
      - theoldbloke
        
        Hey love your story.
        It is sooo full of assumption and illusion.
        
        I love the Bit about Hunter flying across the USA just to drop off his laptop. Do keep up.
        
        He is often on the east coast with his business interests and there were reportedly 3 laptops dropped of with “water”” damage.
        
        Of course any responsible Political person would keep some “”ammunition”‘ up their sleeve for pre election release. That’s how US Politics works!!!
        
        You should write fiction.
        You are great at making stories.
        
        I see other media are starting to sniff a story now that some of the CCs on the emails are confirming their accuracy.
        
        Re only getting PDFs. You do remember the hoopla about Trumps leaked tax returens, no confirmation etc etc just the same as you accuse the post of.
        
        Personally dont care who wins, just enjoying the show. Shame it only has a few weeks to run
        
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        October 19, 2020 5:24pm
      - Fletch
        
        The computer repair shop is in Biden’s home town of Delaware. He was most probably visiting home when he took it in for repair. When it was left he signed a receipt in his own hand. And as has been pointed out, Hunter’s lawyer phoned up to get it back. So, yes it is his. Beyond any doubt. Recipients of emails contained on the hard drive also confirm if lines up with emails sent to them.
        
        As for Giuliani – he did nothing wrong. The laptop is not stolen material. Since Hunter did not pick it up in 90 days, under law, it becomes property of the shop owner and he can do what he likes with it. He gave a copy to the FBI, and when nothing happened, made sure Giuliani got a copy of it too. Nothing wrong there at all.
        
        Do you for one second think that if the Dems had kompromat on Trump they wouldn’t give it to Schiff and co? Just look at “the dossier” that they used and it wasn’t even true. Yet they based a whole years-long investigation on it.
        
        The difference here is that the emails are beyond dispute.
        
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        October 19, 2020 8:28pm
- Ian Hawthorn
  
  The odds on Trump to win have been falling all day. You could get odds of 290 betting on Trump to win a couple of days ago (a $100 bet would earn you $290). It was at 245 this morning; now down to 230 and falling fast. This is probably your last chance to get a bet on Trump at better than even odds.
  
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  October 19, 2020 5:34pm
Yvette

It is reasonably documented in several NEXT Magazine interviews – because they feature Ardern’s own appraisal of herself – that she is amongst other things: anxious to do the right thing (but mainly because she paranoiac of doing the wrong thing – “I know there are lots of people who don’t want me to screw up, and there are just as many who would really love it if I did”), impulsive, which is kindly translated as instinctive, and shows a predilection to throw items out of the cot: any difficult matter that can be assigned to a working group, and anything that hints of turning to custard, is thrust about as far from her view as now is the “capital gains tax”, which was totally irrationally rejected mid “conversation”.

Last Election Winston guided her through what he wanted.
Now how long will any decision take, since she has to make it herself?

And when you have claimed the Election to be a Covid-19 Election, to largely disguise the fact that again you are braving an Election campaign with very few real policies, what now do you have to negotiate on?
So what’s NEXT, and when?
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October 19, 2020 8:16am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  What is her exit plan for New Zealand because wait our covid and hope for a vaccine isn’t a plan it is a hope. Once the panic porn is over and people realise there is only so much money in this country and we need overseas cash then feeling “safe” won’t be a priority.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:33am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I have a simple 3-point plan
    
    1. keep working as long as I have a job
    2. popcorn, comfy chair, home improvement
    3. Schadenfreude targeting the votidiots
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:52pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

I reckon Choppers next move will be another Covid outbreak, bring in the army, then mandatory vaccines.
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October 19, 2020 8:22am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  There is no vaccine.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:49am
  - MCos
    
    Nor army
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:54am
- BAM
  
  If you want to travel anywhere in the world you’re going to have to be vaccinated.
  
  https://thecommonsproject.org/commonpass
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:54am
  - Bob
    
    and swim!
    
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    October 19, 2020 12:08pm
- Flossie
  
  Who is chopper?
  
  2 9
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  October 19, 2020 9:02am
Simon

Labour probably shown the smelly Greens the door. Good sign that the clown show intend to rule as National lite for now.
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October 19, 2020 8:23am
- Surely Knott
  
  The voters didn’t deliver a Greens/ Labour govt. The voters delivered a Labour majority. Some of those voters would have been people who specifically gave Labour a tick so they didn’t get the Greens. To add the Greens in is to deny democracy.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:39am
  - SGA
    
    If I was Labour then I would involve the Greens in some way (knowing that their real influence is constrained), unless the Greens’ demands are completely unpalatable. It will dull some criticism by the very “left” (because at least they are part of the process) – better to have them gnashing their teeth inside the tent rather than outside.
    
    The question is whether it is better for the Greens to be a lame duck partner.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:53am
- kowtow
  
  In the same way Key brought the Maoris in , to have a pal in MMP ( look how well that worked out) Labour will also bring in the Greens.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:58am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Jacinda has had enough of handbrake COL. Don’t forget Julia-Anne Center has sabotaged a few transport initiatives.
    
    Jacinda knows her only opportunity is to ‘work at pace’ … She used those words on the weekend.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:22am
  - Dougal10
    
    Didn’t key use two support partners so he could play one off against the other . Unless the maori caucus threaten to cross the floor a partner isn’t needed. If the maori caucus do cross the floor Act is probably a better col partner than the greens.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:45am
  - virtualmark
    
    If I were the Greens I’d prefer to sit just outside the tent. History hasn’t been kind to minority parties who sign up to coalitions.
    
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    October 19, 2020 12:05pm
kevn

@brain… remind us why you are here again?
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October 19, 2020 8:26am
RF

Hopefully Sage, the old green crone will not be allowed near the Conservation portfolio.

I suspect Ardern will want to have someone to blame for her stuff ups so might just bring in a couple of greens as insurance.

Thank god I disposed of my company early this year and took early retirement. I am now one of Labour’s beneficiaries. If you can’t fight them, join them.

Too early for a single malt.
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October 19, 2020 8:27am
- mandk
  
  At least Sage appears to be a real environmentalist (even if she is a bit dim).
  The rest of the Greens appear to be crypto-communists.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:45am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Sage is a selfish ideologue activist not a governor.
    The power she was given as a Minister allowed her to personally interfere in people’s lives and businesses at will – as we found out to our considerable cost.
    I hope she will be gone.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:32am
    - Paulus
      
      Didn’t Sage come from Forest & Bird ?
      Hence her influence and actions.
      
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      October 19, 2020 2:03pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  My first imaginings after the result….
  How do I move my company to Australia or the USA (depending on election results).
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:58am
- DeepBlue
  
  Nope. Jacinda cannot hide behind the Greens even if she brings them into the Government. Labour has outright majority so she is personally responsible for every decision due to her veto power. She cannot blame Greens for anything, so why bother being distracted by them?
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:25am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yup, she now owns her own shit
    
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    October 19, 2020 5:59pm
- bruceavon
  
  Sage will be Conservation Minister. Labour have a heap of portfolios to fill. They simply don’t have enough people. They have fill all the posts from NZF for a start. So leaving conservation with sage will be the easiest for them.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:32am
  - chukar
    
    Sage as a minister was an arrogant failure.
    A decent minister should be objective and only interfere if it is Government policy is put at risk.
    
    Sage has an absolutely disgraceful record of micro-managing issues she brought with her from her Forest and Bird days and ignoring staff recommendations.
    This comment is supported by media records.
    
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    October 19, 2020 12:43pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  “IT’S 5’OCLOCK SOMEWHERE”
  
  …said loudly as a public service.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:54pm
Rusty

Will the govt introduce a new public holiday(s) called covid lockdown that can occur at anytime?
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October 19, 2020 8:29am
Maggy Wassilieff

Pete George announces his move away from political blogging…
https://yournz.org/2020/10/19/moving-on/
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October 19, 2020 8:30am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Good.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:52am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Smart: there’s nothing like a controlling communist regime for vengence.
  I may be quieter for a while too. The world is topsy turvey and economic certainty is hard to come by.
  
  In a way Labour may have got their just deserts for feigned competence and don’t know it. Their lack of knowledge and inability is going to give them a headache surpassing tramadol. I will be surprised for them to last 12 months in the likely apparent global economic mayhem.
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:58am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Yes, and since we will not be permitted to travel and congregate for sporting life; there will be entertainment fun and Schadenfreude in watching the helpless, the powerful, the meek and the mighty alike, swirl the bowl. The fact I’ll be part of the debris will not stop me hooting and catcalling the people who freely and without any compulsion whatsoever voted for the Greatest Kiwi Democratic Debacle of 2020.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:54am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Kev O’Briwn you are predicting the demise of the Government in 12 months – please explain how that would happen?
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:30am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Off the cuff: Ardern and her team will run into impossible difficulties. I’ve sensed anxiety in Ardern, that only has to be magnified. Politics is about the necessity of action which requires decisions, on demand, not six month’s time. That’s why National are to be preferred as Govt, they have the experience and robustness to face whatever and get on with the job.
      Parliament with all the new Labour cohort is going to look like something out of Sesame Street. I expect any MP to have a reasonable brain, be capable of directing, not be a dissembler and have discernment–does MMP deliver that?
      
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      October 19, 2020 2:57pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Is that the third, fourth or fifth time that Pete George has retired from political blogging? Sheesh, it may even be more than that.
  
  Kudos to the guy for sticking with it for so long; I know how much time and effort I put in to Keeping Stock for seven years, to the point where it was both an addiction and an obsession. God forbid I ever go down that road again!
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:03am
  - Aliog
    
    But you will forever be KS in my mind, Tony 🙂 Even when I read up I on Twitter, my brain thinks KS.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:07am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Thanks Aliog, although I would question whether having KS on one’s brain is a good thing 😉
      
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      October 19, 2020 12:57pm
- Dave Mann
  
  Thanks for the heads up Maggy. This will leave a huge hole in the blogosphere. I looked at it once a couple of years ago when Pete was active here and
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:09am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Hope the door does not hit his arse on the way out
  
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  October 19, 2020 6:00pm
artemisia

Unions will be planning for a big payday, but might be well advised to remember “you can’t run a country like a Polish shipyard”. Quoted in Chris Trotter’s article.

https://www.interest.co.nz/opinion/107572/chris-trotter-hears-jacinda-ardern-calling-result-mandate-accelerate-he-wonders-where
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October 19, 2020 8:31am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Yep,
  They’re one of the first cabs off the rank..
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428662/council-of-trade-unions-expects-government-to-introduce-fair-pay-agreements
  
  Followed closely by the Tangata whenua
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/428657/new-government-a-chance-for-transformational-change-maori-council
  
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  October 19, 2020 8:48am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What about fair pay for Fletchers or is theft of Ihumatao excusable because out of control Maori activists do it? The Police have dropped their reputation too by not upholding their sworn duties. Now it seems to be a PM state. (For the time being.)
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:03am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      PM = PrimeMungous.
      
      8 5
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      October 19, 2020 9:05am
    - Jack5
      
      Pushing for Wily Willy…
      
      From the Maori Council link of Maggy’s:
      
      [Executive director Matthew Tukaki] … Tukaki also sees it as an opportunity for more Cabinet positions for Māori in the government.
      
      He said MPs Willie Jackson and Peeni Henare in particular should be rewarded with those roles for the work they have done so far.
      
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      October 19, 2020 9:56am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Willie Jackson? Wee Willy Winky would be less useless.
        
        5 1
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        October 19, 2020 11:22am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      We don’t have a Poll Tax in NZ: we have a Pallor Tax.
      
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      October 19, 2020 10:38am
  - JackRabbit
    
    On that second link. They must be “poor”. Can’t grow a beard and can’t afford a razor.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:11am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    and the rest of us?
    Thanks for your vote….see ya next time.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:41am
I remember when

It will be interesting when the studies of media performance during the Election appear.
Number of articles and column inches per party.
Number of complimentary articles per party.
Number of articles that were critical of each party.
Percentage summary of complimentary to critical articles by party.
Number of photos and size of photo for each party leader.
If split image photos were all leaders in photo treated equally?
How fairly did the totals treat each party?
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October 19, 2020 8:33am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Who’s going to do such a study? I wouldn’t want to put much hope in the academic rigour and objectivity of “media studies” graduates.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:26am
- DeepBlue
  
  With hindsight there was no shy Tory the MSM were just reporting what they saw on the streets. Fabulous Jacinda and a woeful National campaign. MSM were biased, gleeful and mocking in our eyes, but National gave them the ammunition.
  
  Judith did amazingly well. Many National voters chose Labour this time because of Covid and to keep the greens out. Neither will be in play 2023.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:28am
- RW Capitalist
  
  If I remember correctly…in the 80’s they used to count the minutes of coverage and column inches attributed to each party.
  NOW….not even close.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:40am
- Isobar
  
  I am sure that the 10% of people that still read newspapers will really appreciate that commentary.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:43am
plc

Fuck Taranaki…….they deserve everything they get.

“They only beat us cos they love us”
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October 19, 2020 8:48am
BAM

Missed this article.
From a couple of days back.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-promises-75-million-in-contestable-nz-air-funding-newsrooms
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October 19, 2020 8:49am
Harriet

She won’t get a word in at all.

Grant is up against the tax expert herself, ACT and the likes of the Tax Payers union and employers.

Treasury will largely become the speech writer for this electoral term.

Cindy’s army has no supply line, no officers and no strategy. And the propaganda arm is broke.

It’s a war of attrition. 😎
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October 19, 2020 8:49am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Good analogy.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:33am
Suze Wainwright

What I’m most relieved about from the election result is that Ms Ardern has said she’s here to govern for everyone. Well, as everyone voted for her, that should make her governance so much easier.

That, combined with a personality that has to be seen to please everybody…
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October 19, 2020 8:50am
- RW Capitalist
  
  That, combined with a personality that has to be seen to please everybody
  
  A recipe for disaster.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:34am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Why then does Ardern look like a character from the early horror movies or Munch’s Scream painting? I seen mummies with more meat on about their chops.
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:27am
thirteenstars

I wish I’d kept a list of all those who wrote the Greens off. Gone! they all chimed. They always perform worse than the polls! they all recited smugly. Gone! they predicted, and good riddance.

But some of us knew differently. And said so loudly. The reason is that for decades now the Marxist Green ideology has been rammed into the minds of school kids and those kids now vote. And those that didn’t vote for the Greens voted for Labour.

And National, in another example of its misplaced, unprincipled rush to the centre-left, have increasingly tried to appeal to the “blue-green” voter. Well, they don’t exist. It’s a contradiction in terms. But National ain’t too bright these days.
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October 19, 2020 8:50am
- Gravelroad
  
  Yes but, thirteen, people could be forgiven for at least half believing in the polls, many of which reported repeatedly that the Greens were under the threshold.
  So what happened in those polls?
  Agree with your other points. National does not appear to have a clear purpose.
  What do they stand for?
  Who do they see as their constituents?
  And their carry-on with leakers and leadership changes showed the electorate that it was all about them and their agendas rather than their supporters and issues of concern to them.
  The JLR crap, the plotting against Bridges and the selfish promoting of the unsuitable Muller showed us that.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:25am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Polls? C’mon.
    
    When did people stop listening to each other? It was obvious that Labour was headed for a huge win. I repeatedly called it as a landslide. Why? Because my friends and neighbours all made it clear. I didn’t like it, but that was the reality. I spoke about the businesses that displayed signs saying , Thanks, Jacinda! And about the chalk drawings of children on the footpaths that said, We Love You, Jacinda! But no, the heads in the sand wouldn’t take it seriously.
    
    As far as the Greens are concerned, few people have woken up to the fact that public education has been churning out tens of thousands of predominantly Green voters for years regardless of government. National is just as guilty for that indoctrination machine as anyone in Labour. And it’s too late to stop it. You were all warned, but those yelling it out were dismissed as alarmists.
    
    Much like those of us warning about the coming hate speech laws and internet filters, which will be passed very soon now Labour has the mandate.
    
    Get ready to reap the consequences of that wilful ignorance.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:50am
    - kowtow
      
      Maybe it was a “Sly Tory” effect in the polls , for a change. Traditional Nat voters who in the end switched to labour to a, prevent the Green machine and b, punish their own side for all the balls up .(rightly or wrongly) But they didn’t /couldn’t bring themselves to tell that to the pollsters?
      
      I also think some other soft minded folk just like to be on the winning team and just follow what they see as a winning trend .
      
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      October 19, 2020 1:35pm
    - Paulus
      
      Listening to the media shouting currently there are a large number of ethnic groups who are insisting in their pound of flesh for the screaming and shouting in regular public places enhancing Cindy’s greatness.
      And they now want !
      
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      October 19, 2020 2:09pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  But why aren’t there any blue-greens? There is no obvious reason why those two characteristics of understanding basic economics and caring about the environment, can’t be shared in the same individual
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:28am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Blue-Green is actually Red. People would vote Green, but want better economic management.
    
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    October 19, 2020 2:58pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Look no further than the almost combined visit to universities…before Greens were toast and sinking, after…the greens bounced?
  The students screwed us again.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:38am
- JamesP
  
  Greens may as well not have made it back in for all the policy Labour will let them enact.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:48am
- Surely Knott
  
  Looks to me like Auckland Central looked at the polls and those predictions and voted strategically. Labour were on the decline and hovering around 50. The Nats only path to power was if the Greens dropped out. The smartest vote you could make to ensure a labour govt was to have the greens in as insurance and a guaranteed partner. So that’s what they did.
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:23am
coge

The centre delivered Labour a landslide victory. The best way to start out, would be to lock in that support. And boost their popularity further, to record levels. By governing alone.
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October 19, 2020 8:53am
- virtualmark
  
  NZ political reality:
  
  One third vote left wing
  One third vote right wing (see Nat + ACT on Sat)
  The third in the middle vote for whoever has the most credible and charismatic leader.
  
  That middle third voted for Muldoon, then Clark, then Key, now Ardern.
  
  Judith throws lots of red meat to the third that always vote right wing. But that’s all she could get out and look what the result was.
  
  National needs to look for a new charismatic and capable leader that appeals to Waitakere man and people in their 20s. Not easy given the current talent pool.
  
  Frankly, the National Party establishment like Key, Goodfellow etc have done a **shit** job of recruiting future leaders with the breadth of appeal to win elections.
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:09pm
  - virtualmark
    
    If the Nats are serious they would:
    
    * Immediately find someone with the Key-like ability to win the centre while also satisfying the base
    * Bring this person very high into their list
    * Engineer the retirement of Nick Smith or Gerry Brownlee in late-2021, so this new person comes into Parliament in this term and can begin to build a profile.
    
    You’d still only be able to win in 2023 if Labour completely cockup (not impossible). But realistically here the Nats need to start building for 2026.
    
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    October 19, 2020 12:14pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Can’t bring a ‘new’ person into parliament, except by an electorate MP resigning a safe seat for a by-election. National is limited to the current talent on its list. Next cabs off the rank are Hipango, Young and Macindoe. No disrespect to them, but they are not leaders in waiting. The next National leader has to come from those already there.
      
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      October 19, 2020 12:37pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Mikey, can you reshuffle your list between elections? Is there a way to vault a new name high into the list?
        
        Genuine questions … I don’t know what’s allowed.
        
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        October 19, 2020 2:46pm
      - freethinker
        
        Nick Smith and Gerry can only return as list MPs so if they resign the next on the list comes in.
        
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        October 19, 2020 3:32pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        virtualmark
        The electoral act requires list vacancies to be filled from the party list supplied for the general election. People on the list may be skipped if they no longer belogn to the party, or if they decline to become an MP. But if no one on the list wants to be appointed to a vacancy, the vacancy remains until the next general election. So there is no sneaky way into parliament for a favoured candidate without facing the electorate.
        
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        October 19, 2020 5:09pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Maybe contract Tova, Jessica Mutch McKay,
      Ali Mau, Hills Barry, Jack Tame , John Campbell and a selection of $tuff columnists to pick someone they like.
      Might as well.
      Ms Ardern had the media in the palm of her hand from the off and look where it’s got her. She would have won even if there had been no covid.
      Policy? Doesn’t matter.
      Celebrities rule,OK?
      
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      October 19, 2020 3:26pm
RW Capitalist

Well, the job interview is over…the employee has been selected.
Now it is for the employee to do the job, they applied for.
Running the country FOR the people in it…not just those that did you a favour and helped you get the job.
Maybe now, we may get to know this, much vaunted plan they kept telling us they have.
After all, it does involve us, what they are gong to do to/ for us.
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October 19, 2020 8:54am
- kowtow
  
  That “employee” made a lot of promises , even some outsiders in the Media Party noticed :
  
  ‘Ms Ardern and Labour are vulnerable to accusations of sweet talk and little action, of non-“delivery”. Housing issues have magnified, child poverty is worse and the mental health crisis is as bad as ever.
  Ms Ardern three years ago talked of “transformative” government.’
  
  And are already making excuses for why it won’t happen:
  
  “Politicians like to pronounce, as they win, that they will govern for all people. But this ideal will be nearly impossible to fulfil even for Ms Ardern. There are winners and losers and conflicting interests when the pressure of policy, politics and spending priorities are applied. Even with the best intentions, Ms Ardern’s road ahead will be bumpy with lots of rocks and potholes.”
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/queen-jacinda%E2%80%99s-road-ahead
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:25am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Pravda gotta Pravda.
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:41am
rochele

Easy work at home.

https://www.ysense.com/?rb=59429643
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October 19, 2020 8:59am
Captain Mainwaring

Interesting that NZ now has the world’s highest proportion of LGBTQA members in its Parliament.
And about half of the Greens qualify, the rest are in Labour. None of them are in National or ACT.
Some will say what the Hell difference does that make but I beg to differ.
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October 19, 2020 8:59am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I couldn’t care less what gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or anything MP’s are, as long as they are competent to do the job.
  
  Unfortunately, those who have risen up the ranks in their party to the point where they are selected as a candidate or given a winnable list placing have often done so on the basis of their particular identity rather than their ability.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:06am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Last week the msm had a bit of a laugh about the ‘loose cannon’ MPs that ACT might bring in because they hadn’t faced much public scrutiny.
    
    I’m not sure if the msm applied similar analysis to Labour’s longer list characters…
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:14am
    - freethinker
      
      Hope DPF does a profile on the new Labour/Green MP’s.
      
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      October 19, 2020 3:35pm
  - iMP
    
    First African MP in NZ this round.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:16am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Of course because Jacinda is in power
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:11am
    - Twinkletoes
      
      First Muslim MP in Parliament – but that fact was not disclosed in the headline.
      
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      October 19, 2020 11:59am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Wrong. Ashraf Choudhary was New Zealand’s first Muslim MP when he was elected in 2002. There’s also some speculation that National MP and Minister Tim Groser, who is married to a Muslim woman, may have converted to Islam.
        
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        October 19, 2020 1:02pm
  - graham
    
    You may not care “what gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation or anything MP’s are, as long as they are competent to do the job”, Tony, but sadly other people do.
    
    Listening to the news this morning, a big deal was made of the fact that there are 13 MPs from the rainbow community, and that they’re all from Labour and the Greens – none from National or ACT. So what, you might think? But the Auckland Pride director was on radio saying that this was something those parties would have to look at, and how important it was for parties to be “representative” and they should take a good long hard look at themselves if they don’t have any “queer” people in their ranks.
    
    Nothing was said about whether these people should be competent, experienced, or anything else. Apparently the fact that they’re “queer” is all that matters to many people.
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:25am
    - 453mm
      
      Parties don’t have to be representative. The Maori Party is the best example of that. The point of a democracy is that Parliament will be more or less representative.
      The voters who care about alphabet soup representatives will vote for the parties that provide them. The voters who don’t, won’t.
      
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      October 19, 2020 12:10pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Yes, it was hearing that story about NZ having its queerest Parliament ever that prompted my comment Graham.
      
      Compare Christopher Finlayson, an MP and Minister who happened to be gay, with the likes of Tim Barnett, Chris Carter, Tamati Coffey and Louisa Wall, who are gay first and foremost, and then MP’s.
      
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      October 19, 2020 1:06pm
- kowtow
  
  Greens; least ‘diverse’ party in parliament . 70 % wimmin , 30 % “rainbow” .
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:19am
  - freethinker
    
    And 100 Incompetent.
    
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    October 19, 2020 7:06pm
- mandk
  
  Homosexuals are obviously over-represented in our parliament.
  
  Why ones should get the chop?
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:00am
I remember when

University of NSW
Engineers from UNSW have crunched the numbers of green hydrogen production costs.
The researchers say it is not far-fetched to imagine large scale hydrogen energy plants becoming cheaper than fossil fuel ones, in the next couple of decades.
The idea of remote solar-driven electrolysis system was considered far too expensive but the gap is reducing each year.
It’s possible to see green hydrogen costs getting as low as US$2.20 (AUD$3.08) by 2030. This is on a par with or cheaper than the cost of fossil-fuel produced hydrogen.
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October 19, 2020 9:04am
- Lance
  
  When you say Hydrogen production can cost as low as AUD$3.08…. do you mean per kWh?
  
  That’s friggen expensive!
  
  Electricity bulk generation cost is around $0.04 kWh
  Petrol holds around 9kWh per litre
  So as a fuel it MIGHT come down to NZ$3.30 x 9?
  So you are promoting fuel that costs the equivalent of $30 at litre????
  
  Fuck that!
  
  And I suspect that doesn’t include distribution and station costs etc.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:39am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Bloomberg estimates hydrogen just $1.33/kg by 2030, mainly due to rapidly dropping price of electrolysis plants out of China. 1kg hydrogen has ~3x the energy per kg of oil, so it’s about $55 per barrel oil equivalent, far lower than average for last decade. PV power in sunniest climates is now down to just USD $0.013/kWh.
    At $1.33/kg for hydrogen the cost for electricity from a 50% efficient hydrogen fuel cell will be about $0.08/kWh. That undercuts USD $0.20/kWh retail electricity prices and gets pretty close to USD $0.06/kWh wholesale electricity price. Going off grid with a home fuel cell and rooftop PV will be cheapest option within 10-20 years.
    
    The world can shift to a renewable hydrogen economy producing in desert countries, (or locally to reduce imports), and cut overall cost of energy. Hydrogen can work for ships and planes (including non-stop supersonic half way around the world) and earth movers, maybe trucks and rail (EV’s may be better for those, and will dominate cars). We’ll have no need for fossil fuels or nuclear. I like fossil and nuclear power but cheaper renewable is better, and the change will be rapid because it is cheaper than status quo. It also works year round for high-latitude and cloudy countries.
    
    Truly a seismic change in technology, and pretty much inevitable given lower cost. Climate catastrophists will have to find a new scare to sell, and despotic oil-funded regimes are screwed.
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:38am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The unit was kg. See it here:
    https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/10/17/how-green-hydrogen-can-become-cheap-enough-to-compete-with-fossil-fuels/
    
    The year to come promises even better as NASA has affirmed recently that excess energy is coming out of sources not yet explainable by current physics.
    I see a fully electric vehicle with a life-long non-rechargeable power plant possibly on offer by a major manufacturer in the near future. The household connection to the grid may be obsolete too. There is a real ferment going on and a race to be commercially first at present. There is competition from several different sources.
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:41am
- oob
  
  I’ve been looking into the viability of solar electrolysis for our off-grid system.
  
  Here’s the thing. The constraint on most solar systems is battery capacity. The batteries are the most expensive component so a well-sized system comprises enough battery capacity with a little overhead to suit your needs.
  
  Here’s the next thing: solar panels are cheap.
  
  Here’s the opportunity: in the summertime our electricity usage overnight has been replenished by the panels in a couple of hours and the batteries are full. The panels could be harvesting electricity for the next ten or so hours but they’re not because the batteries are full.
  
  Solution: do something else with all that excess electricity. For example, electrolysis for hydrogen production.
  
  Challenge: avoiding explosions.
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:43pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I suspect the hydrogen path is already obsolete. Electricity is now being “harvested” directly from safe plasma. One unit only about a large thumb size can drive a car wheel.
    
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    October 19, 2020 3:07pm
    - oob
      
      Link, chap?
      
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      October 19, 2020 3:30pm
marcmywords

So…. what to do with the traitor that is Mark Mitchell?
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October 19, 2020 9:06am
- lifesgood
  
  And that Lee woman. Judith says she lost Nat 5 points. I hope she is rapidly sidelined.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:49am
  - Flossie
    
    To be fair Judith did not say that Lee woman cost 5 points. She actually said whoever leaked Lee’s email cost them points.
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:18am
    - lifesgood
      
      I stand corrected.
      
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      October 19, 2020 2:15pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That’s the Labour underground team at work. They give no quarter, anyone who can be taken down will be. I saw them as deliberately disorganising National’s campaign from the outset. Add COVID fear and $50M to sweeten and the present has been hard to avoid.
      
      National don’t play dirty electoral politics: Labour don’t know how not to. Judith has done a most excellent job in the time allowed and has still retained her composure. Ardern is going to have an opponent she will regret. The brake on the Crusher is about to be released.
      
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      October 19, 2020 3:17pm
      - MCos
        
        National lost because they were useless.
        They’re lost their aura of invincibility.
        Once they accept that and stop bitching about the referee they can move on.
        
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        October 19, 2020 4:57pm
  - MCos
    
    There was more to the backstory of that email that may or may not come out.
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:30am
- Bobba Fret
  
  not sure if I was Judith I would trust Chris Bishop either or other Muller supporters. They have a lot to answer for.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:59am
Catgurl13

Chris Hipkins stated on TV news that he thought it wasn’t appropriate to be talking about the latest Covid cases including the port worker on election day. Of course not Chris that might prevent the people if NZ knowing the truth that your mob dropped the ball once again!!. We can’t have anyone telling the truth now. They deliberately concealed that until after the election,very dishonest to the NZ public.
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October 19, 2020 9:11am
- RJ
  
  No they didn’t drop the ball. The guy felt unwell he went and got tested and got a positive. That is a quick catch and hopefully with no community spread
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:45am
- Isobar
  
  Well considering he was only notified at around 45 mins before polls closed, would it have made a difference?
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:46am
  - Michael Duke
    
    and of course the notification went to him in a timely manner with no hand wringing or checking with the PM’s office or Hipkins before sending the notification at all right?
    
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    October 19, 2020 7:07pm
- SGA
  
  meh – putting your suspected political intrigues aside, I can’t imagine a workable system that would completely guarantee nothing getting through ever. It’s just as important to plan for those events, and to control them quickly.
  If the information currently available is accurate, then this seems to be the case here.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:10am
MCos

I listened to the National Party Leader, Judith Collins, on the wireless. It seems she’s not taking responsibility for the poor showing and intends to hang around as leader.
Well, somebody has to otherwise the Nats aren’t going to get out of the hole they’re in and someone else will rush to fill the void. That will be Labour & ACT. The new centre & centre right, with Green on the left.
Every electorate in the South Is party voted a majority for Labour. Who’d have thought? Labour might angle to keep it that way by squeezing National.
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October 19, 2020 9:13am
- Frank the tank
  
  It will depend on what National emerges in the next 12 months and how the economy will go. I’m sure there were similar comments going around in 2002. At some stage the music stops and the bills need to be paid. Grant pissed it all against the wall.
  
  There’s no money for new hospitals, schools, light rail or 100% renewable energy. There is also no excuses for non performance and no ability to hide non performers such as Davis and Twyford.
  
  New Zealanders have traditionally not rewarded incompetence. Perhaps now they will (after Saturday anything is possible) however I wouldn’t take it for granted.
  
  Enjoy your gloating – nothing lasts forever.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:30am
  - Lance
    
    Davis can be the minister of poetry
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:48am
- greybeard
  
  Labour is hardly centre: they are led by a self-confessed communist.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:37am
  - Catgurl13
    
    Exactly….they weren’t only pretending to be centrist.
    
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    October 19, 2020 9:40am
  - MCos
    
    Ardern has been in parliament for twelve years. How long are we supposed to wait until these communistic inclinations manifest themselves?
    
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    October 19, 2020 12:20pm
    - Tall Man
      
      She hasn’t been in the top job until now.
      
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      October 19, 2020 3:38pm
      - MCos
        
        And she’s not now.
        Sam Cane has that wrapped up.
        
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        October 19, 2020 4:22pm
    - Michael Duke
      
      Hate speech laws and compulsory internet filters sound an awful lot like it.
      
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      October 19, 2020 7:09pm
    - GJM
      
      Well, there is illegally locking up the country, using armed police to raid homes of people with dissenting opinions and pointing guns at 12 year old girls in a horse paddock , confiscated firearms, confiscated property without compensation, state controlled media, planning on making wrongspeech illegal, illegally tried facial recognition contrary to the privacy act. The greens wealth tax would confiscate assets into state ownership when people can’t pay.
      
      Not so much the desire, more the ability and competence is missing,
      
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      October 20, 2020 5:27am
- Isobar
  
  Re the south island, the fact that Judith was barely present around the mainland and the fact Gerry – their South Island DEPUTY LEADER was nowhere to be found is probably why.
  
  National were arrogant and took the South Island for granted. Their flagship policy for the South Island was to build a four lane road between CHCH to Ashburton. Hardly appealing to those south of Ashburton or North of Rolleston.
  
  Not to mention to piss poor handling of the candidate Scandals in Rangitata and Southland. It was a shit show.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:51am
- kowtow
  
  Responsibility lies with Covid panic porn from the Media Party and yes with very poor discipline among a number of Nat MP’s , that does not make Judith “responsible” . She got a hospital pass too close to the election and she and her team ,in fairness , should get credit for taking on and fighting a rear guard action.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:53am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Agree Kowtow – I thought Ms Collins did OK given the circumstances.
    No one was going to beat Ms Ardern – Princess Di wouldn’t have.
    But I don’t think the Labour Party would have done nearly so well if they hadn’t had Jacinda.
    People on here asking why there was such a red vote in the provinces:
    Jacinda.
    Severe disillusionment with the National Party.
    Almost total disconnect from the Green Party which saw many so desperate that a vote for Labour was seen as a way of lessening the negative impact of these smug, authoritarian activists.
    ACT put in a good social media show and seemed genuine about their support for farming, rural and
    Regions.
    
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    October 19, 2020 11:25am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘But I don’t think the Labour Party would have done nearly so well if they hadn’t had Jacinda.’
      
      Agree.
      
      The really scary thing is how our elections seem to be more and more about personality than policy and the very large percentage of easily swung voters .
      
      Same thing happened to Nats under English . Languished till Key came along . Labour same , Cunners, Shearer , Little ; no headway and then all of a sudden Ardern and sweetness and light propelled into Sanctification by the Covid Media Party.
      
      No delivery , no real policy.
      
      Faaaaaark.
      
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      October 19, 2020 12:07pm
- surfing
  
  She’ll be gone before the next election.
  
  Only kiwibloggers entertained the thought of a National win. Observing Collin’s confidence of winning for me set the needle at somewhere between delusional and mad.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:57am
- SGA
  
  Well, somebody has to otherwise the Nats aren’t going to get out of the hole they’re in and someone else will rush to fill the void.
  
  I disagree, there is no immediate rush. It might be wiser to let the dust settle and see what and who presents itself over the next year. A resignation rather than a coup would also look better. 24 months is enough time for a new leader to establish themselves. The worse outcome would be a sudden change that didn’t work out and needed to replaced in the second half of the election cycle.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:14am
- KevO'Brien
  
  $50M goes a long way temporarily towards election bliss for some.
  The real accounting is yet to come. The last time they got the job the COL proved useless at management. Govt by Ardern R.’s edict was the rule. COVID saved them by manipulation of fear. Their superb underground PR team also worked to set the issues and break opponents. They neatly stage-managed Simon’s exit. Judith has been careful not to engage with them as they tolerate nothing but their diversionary tactics.
  
  Now once again they have to perform. They will have little choice as the outside world is going to impact us more than most are aware. We see closures here, they are happening elsewhere too. A global recession seems to be upon us. The COL will be forced to respond. There will be increase unemployed and cost of living. Financial markets are likely to collapse too. We won’t know the larger picture clearly for some months yet and others are still enduring the Lockdown and hence not trading. The belt is still tightening around an already starved skeleton.
  The COL will call their “Advisors” and get the appropriate responses but not having the basic capacity to understand that the ideological model is unworkable will be left considering what to do–that only yields tywfordism and inaction. People being squeezed in a wage price spiral are not going to feel happy about an incapable COL. The obligation to care for the people has actually been dumped on the PM. Oh dear, never mind.
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:03pm
  - Tall Man
    
    What COL? This is the ardern party now so she owns the wins and the losses all on her lonesome.
    
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    October 19, 2020 3:35pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      As I said elsewhere, she now owns her OWN shit
      
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      October 19, 2020 6:15pm
  - MCos
    
    You can hold the Government account for the competence of their own action, but not for the Opposition.
    When covid-19 arrived on our shores the Nats, who to that point were neck and neck in the polls, imploded because Bridges fucked up. It was free fall from there and it was National’s making, not the government or the media.
    
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    October 19, 2020 4:48pm
iMP

FRONTING UP. Judith’s live presser just now on the electoral loss. What a bear pit from the press. Hard difficult questions like a machine gun. She answered straightforwardly, with good humour, unfazed, unemotional. A really-well centered person you have to say. She is a strong solid leader and handled this pressure incredibly well. I’ve never seen Jacinda Ardern face a presser like that.
Class act Judith.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123126801/election-2020-national-party-blame-game-begins?fbclid=IwAR2kgA4nxQxcTK073WbYEAjq6A8US-xANqKoBD85ZfI_gx-rSEE9_bc6IQY
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October 19, 2020 9:14am
Nick R

I’d be really interested in DPF’s take on the polls this election. Both TVNZ and Newshub had polls last week. Neither accurately predicted the scale of Labour’s win – they underestimated Labour’s share of the vote and significantly overestimated National’s support. Were they wrong, or did a lot of National voters make a late decision to hold their noses and vote Labour?
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October 19, 2020 9:19am
- DeepBlue
  
  David’s analysis already showed voters on the day were more what was expected, in fact 30% National.
  
  The early votes went Labour and Covid.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:32am
- Libertarians are right
  
  To my understanding, polling is weighted on usual demographic turnout (i.e. they poll proportionately less kids because less of them usually vote). For a couple of reasons, that was totally turned upside down in this election.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:56am
- jon
  
  I maybe wrong but i thought DF said over the weekend that of the party votes that were cast on ELECTION DAY Nats received 31% and Labour mid 40s?? Did anyone else hear that?? The last two polls had Nats about 31%.
  
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  October 19, 2020 4:27pm
Frank the tank

The best organisations use results like this to better themselves. The whole set up of the right, centre right and centre needs to be reconsidered and how National/Act faces future elections. The game has changed – there is no point believing anything else.

While I can’t comprehend the result or why people voted the way they did it appears National (and Act) need to think how they target the youth, youth adjacent and female voter base. There needs to be cohesion, a balanced approach and importantly an electable proposition (not for us) for those groups.

Secondly National needs a full 360 review from the HQ down to the grassroots. What went right, what went wrong. The AllBlacks did this post 2007 and changed their culture, got rid of problem children (i.e. the drinkers), implemented a non dickhead program and otherwise applied logic and science whereas previously a “she’ll be right” attitude prevailed. Perhaps Graham Henry, Steve Hansen or someone similar (I think for the ABs it was John Graham) could lead this review. otherwise this person has to be independent of National to otherwise get to the root of all the problems.

Ultimately – use this result to better yourselves not blame everyone else.

Let’s fix this.
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October 19, 2020 9:20am
- nickle
  
  Yes, and unfortunately they need a sort of PR head.
  
  Well at least someone palatable to the general ‘reality tv’ generation. Unfortunately that means 30’s-40’s, some kind of minority background, and overall they have to have tv/media presence.
  
  Personally I like it if they have a quick brain and a good recall of political detail, but as Jacinda has shown, the ability to waffle with a smile and good hair gets you a freaking long way.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:18am
  - theoldbloke
    
    Just a small point re Jacinda taking over 8 weeks out.
    She was already Deputy leader and had a fantastic PR profile on women mags etc.
    and full on Media suppor
    
    Verse staid plodding along Bill English image.
    
    So no comparison between Jacindas start point and Judiths
    
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    October 19, 2020 12:09pm
- bruceavon
  
  Yes I absolutely agree. I notice Judith is already inserting excuses into her answers. She is saying she’s only been in charge “ a few weeks”. But it was 13 weeks. Quarter of the year. Ardern took over with 8 weeks to go. anyway that doesn’t matter, but I hope it doesn’t signal they are just going to brush this under the carpet. A serious review of what went wrong is required by someone independent. Changes need to be made. The party has to get the young votes and appeal to the middle. Become a modern Conservative party.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:38am
  - RJ
    
    Huge difference. Arden took over because the leader stepped aside, the party was united behind her. Judith took over a party that has had infighting for quite a long time now, and went into the election with that still going on and leaks.
    
    Let’s be honest there are serious problems in national when a 17 year old is selected to campaign for a seat. National selectors couldn’t give a stuff about putting a serious candidate up there. National has been a shits mess for a while and need to kick a shit load of people out and rebuild.
    
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    October 19, 2020 3:08pm
Nuwanda

Case in point: Rangitata electorate.

A National seat for the last four elections since it was reestablished. In 2017 they won with a 6,000 majority. The very definition of a solid blue seat. Previous majorities were as large or larger.

It just flipped to Labour with a 3,500 majority. The National candidate, one of the vaunted “blue-green” candidates National seems to want to specialise in, got thumped.

What’s instructive is that in previous elections the ACT vote had been in the low hundreds. In 2017 only 193. This election? 3,700 voted ACT.

That’s right: in Rangitata, ACT voted National out of the seat. There’s a lesson there but I doubt anyone in National has the brains to grasp what it is.
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October 19, 2020 9:34am
- Frank the tank
  
  I think this result was also somewhat a blowback against Falloon’s behaviour
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:20am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Keep thinking that way and 2023 will make 2020 look like the good old days.
    
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    October 19, 2020 1:11pm
  - RJ
    
    Nothing to do with falloon, everything to do with national taking the seat for granted, Megan, where was she? Sure as hell never saw her around. National had no booths at all the markets, labour a,easy did, labour was every day pushing to flip this seat, national, well she did come down to Timaru for her election party on Saturday. As someone said today to me why did she throw a party in Timaru when she barely campaigned here
    
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    October 19, 2020 3:02pm
- nickle
  
  I just had a look, they basically 2 ticked red. Do people really understand MMP???
  
  And if they don’t, shouldn’t that be challenged (yeah I know we already have, but this election has given me serious doubts)
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:24am
- RJ
  
  The problem was national selectors put in someone from outside of the area above local people who had strong standing in the community. Then Megan barley campaigned. National took us as a safe seat and got paid back for that. As I’ve said before labour were out campaigning their buts of here, stalls at every farmers market, junk mail, Megan was nowhere, nothing from national
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Don’t expect COVID support round. The COL have got what they dreamed, now they have to perform.
  What did they do last time?
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:09pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    What did they do last time? Sweet fuck all, other than screw up everything they touched
    
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    October 19, 2020 6:18pm
- Steve Todd
  
  That’s right: in Rangitata, ACT voted National out of the seat.
  
  Not so. You are confusing the Party votes with the Electorate votes.
  
  On Saturday night, 3,721 Party votes were counted for ACT NZ (up, as you point out, from 193 in 2017).
  
  Jo Luxton’s majority on Saturday night was 3,484. The ACT candidate, Hamish Hutton, received 1,220 votes. So even if those 1,220 votes had all been given for Megan Hands, Luxton’s majority would still have been 2,264.
  
  ACT did not vote National out of the seat, Labour did.
  
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  October 19, 2020 3:20pm
I remember when

Why did so many rural towns and areas go red?
It was a vote by people who have always had the Government stop the foolhardy from having to suffer the consequences of their actions.
The collapse of the finance companies was a case in point. Every time things turn down the Government stimulates the economy to lessen the impact.
The lesson learned is diluted as we don’t have to reflect on genuine depression.
Christchurch earthquake – Government lessens lesson for those who took the risk of being uninsured.
The economy has become part of the welfare system.
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October 19, 2020 9:36am
Gulag1917

New MP
“Dr Elizabeth Kerekere wrote a doctoral study on the diverse sexuality of pre-colonial Māori.
Kerekere, from Gisborne, is a lifelong activist, visual artist and academic. She wrote her PhD on the diverse sexuality of pre-colonial Māori.”
It is doubtful diversity would have been tolerated in pre-colonial Maori so why this from an elected mp. Grants for study and doctorates are often based upon race.
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October 19, 2020 9:42am
- Libertarians are right
  
  If it’s the woman I’m thinking of, she basically found a couple of stories which she interpreted as showing lesbian relationships. Until then, the belief was that the only same sex relationships allowed were between males. She was basically trying to dispell the belief that pre-colonial Maori society was extremely male dominated.
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:05am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Her thesis is here:
  https://researcharchive.vuw.ac.nz/xmlui/handle/10063/6369
  
  Her background is here:
  http://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/local-news/20200624/kerekere-brings-commitment-and-network-to-election-racer/
  
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  October 19, 2020 6:17pm
Rich Prick

Quick question, what happens now to the Shane Jones slush fund?
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October 19, 2020 9:46am
- RJ
  
  Becomes the Phil twyford slush fund ???
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:53am
- Tall Man
  
  Was closed down before the election.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:56am
- Gravelroad
  
  Transferred to the Greens,
  Gives them something to do and makes them feel part of govt. won’t be spending it on roads though – maybe electric bikes for all and cycle ways.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:59am
- krazykiwi
  
  We have a socialist government with an unconstrained mandate. They’ll do whatever they want with this borrowed money, and they will demand that you pay. And pay. And pay.
  
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  October 19, 2020 9:59am
  - SGA
    
    Or, they will look at being re-elected in 3 years and show some constraint.
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:18am
    - krazykiwi
      
      You forgot the #humour tag
      
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      October 19, 2020 1:00pm
      - SGA
        
        meh – just not going the whole “chicken little”.
        
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        October 19, 2020 1:11pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    I doubt that they will demand we pay, they will just take it out of our pay before it gets to our account, and transferred to the Iwi and WINZ and student loan and all the other accounts of those voters they bought.
    
    Other possibilities besides CGT / death duties / etc:
    
    – GST to 20% “to pay what we spent on saving you from Covid”
    – a separate Luxury Sales Tax for ‘luxuries’ (defined as anything Ardern & Chloe disapprove of)
    – a separate Land Transaction Tax for buying and selling property “only affects rich pricks”
    – taxing Maori at a lower rate
    – taxing Europeans with a Reparations Tax
    – an Exit Tax for people traveling who are not part of an AVG (approved victim group)
    – a Final Exit Tax for people emigrating
    – a Final-Final Exit Tax for people thinking they can escape being taxed early by choosing assisted suicide “we’ll base it on your future earning power as you have deprived the State of that income, you looter”
    
    The possibilities are endless!
    
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    October 19, 2020 10:52am
- DeepBlue
  
  Labour already wrapped it up. The last of the money went to the Marae redos last week.
  
  Labour have only put $200m aside, for regional projects this term.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:35am
Critical Thinker

Q: How much do you think that the $125 million forcefully taken from tax payers by government then given to the Fake News media of Nu Tirani would’ve incentivised them to heavily influence the information in the voting decisions of this now socialist dystopia nation? ?
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/labour-promises-75-million-in-contestable-nz-air-funding-newsrooms
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/121178681/coronavirus-50m-government-package-to-help-media-through-crisis

Q: Why would the Nu Tirani mainstream Fake News media need financial aid from the government, when they’ve literally had a captive audience for a significant portion of this year? ?
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October 19, 2020 9:48am
I remember when

The remarkable thing about Mark Mitchell is that he thinks he possesses the skills to be a Party Leader.
While Luxon has done nothing that give a real clue to his Parliamentary potential, he was impressive on Saturday night. The separate electorate party may not have been the best idea but the explanation sounded reasonable.
Reti, Bishop, Upston, would all seem to have better credentials than Mitchell.
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October 19, 2020 9:58am
- Flossie
  
  I would not favour Mitchell as the next Nat leader. Not sure yet who, but there’s no rush.
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:24am
- oldfella
  
  IRW: yesterday Mitchell ruled out challenging Collins for the leadership. (FWIW… he is a politician).
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/mark-mitchell-rules-challenging-judith-collins-nationals-leadership
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:42pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Please, stop talking about Luxon as a potential leader. He’s still only at lunchtime on his first day at Parliament, and it’s far, far too early for him to be talked up as National’s saviour.
  
  John Key was first elected to Parliament in 2002, he became National’s Finance spokesman in 2004, where he did very well against Michael Cullen in the run-up to the 2005 election. He became leader of National in 2006.
  
  Let’s wait and see how Luxon transitions to Parliament before heaping unrealistic expectations on him
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:29pm
  - RJ
    
    Yeah, just because you are successful in the businesses world doesn’t mean you are leadership material in the political world. We’ve already seen that this year.
    
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    October 19, 2020 2:59pm
    - Inandout
      
      RJ, Trump broke the mould, not an ounce of politician in his whole body. Twyford on the other hand…
      “He knows nothing; and he thinks he knows everything. That points clearly to a political career.”
      ― George Bernard Shaw
      
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      October 19, 2020 5:27pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Shaw foresaw Trump then? A person with no achievements who proclaims himself a genius?
        
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        October 19, 2020 7:11pm
    - theoldbloke
      
      Rj. Correct. Look at the clusterfk in Tauranga. Business guy thinks he can be Mayor WITH NO PREVIOUS political experience.
      
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      October 19, 2020 5:30pm
thirteenstars

As the dust settles, my only regret is that the defeat for National was not larger, and in favour of ACT.

That might–just might–have opened the eyes of a few National members.

In a few seats ACT was responsible for unseating National.

But no, the ostriches in National have almost as much disdain for ACT as they have for Labour, and that’s why they needed a good thrashing. I suspect this result, while sobering, won’t have been enough to make them see the true nature of the problem.
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October 19, 2020 10:07am
Critical Thinker

Flu Cure Discovered! ?

According to World Health Organization graphs, flu disappeared from the earth at the end of April, and even earlier in the US.
https://youtu.be/ozKl-UtVBaI?t=8
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October 19, 2020 10:07am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Hard But Not Early – The Real Cost of NZ’s Lockdown – By John Gibson Professor of Economics from the University of Waikato
  ?
  https://youtu.be/O2JOg4ki_so?list=WL&t=1019
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:19am
Bill Felt

A competition:
Please guess:
1. Foreign Minister
2. Defence Minister
3. Minister of Economic Development (sic)
4. Health

Closest person gets – subsidised housing, subsidised EV’s, subsidised travel on trains, lots of trees, free university, and if you are maori you get a special top up!
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October 19, 2020 10:11am
- Libertarians are right
  
  Foreign Minister = David Parker
  Defense Minister = Kelvin Davis
  Minister of Economic Development = Phil Stoner Twyford
  Health = Ayesha Verall
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:00am
- RJ
  
  1. Megan woods
  2. Megan woods
  3. Megan woods
  4. Megan woods
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:43am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Foreign Minister – David Parker
  Defence – Phil Twyford (get him out of the way)
  Economic Development – Woods
  Health – Hipkins
  Looks to promotions for Faafoi, Henare and Salesa, and new ministers in Russell and McAnulty.
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:17pm
- bruceavon
  
  Parker
  Nash
  Robertson
  Woods
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:23pm
- thirteenstars
  
  5. Minister of Censorship – Andrew Little
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:10pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    5. Minister of ~~Censorship~~ Truth – Andrew Little
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:51pm
Suze Wainwright

What’s the most friendly and caring way that Ms Ardern could tell the Green Party of Aotearoa/New Zealand that their services might not be required (again)?
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October 19, 2020 10:13am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Stalin had ideas on how to rid himself of troublesome once-were-fellow-travelers. The former President of International Socialist Youth is likely have a reference library easily accessed.
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:57am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes Comrade. Want to hear it 15 times?
    
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    October 19, 2020 6:24pm
  - GJM
    
    For sale. Ice pick, only used once…
    
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    October 20, 2020 5:42am
- mandk
  
  She speaks some te reo, so she could perhaps tell them to whuk owh.
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:42am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Only when rehearsed from the teleprompter.
    More reena
    
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    October 19, 2020 6:25pm
- barnacle bill
  
  My view is that the Greens have enormous egos within.
  
  After watching their performance on Saturday night Davidson is going to take some handling. She was over the top and will want to be the top dog.
  But also will Swarbrick, and quite rightly so.
  She won the seat.
  Shaw will need all his skills to keep them in check.
  
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  October 19, 2020 11:57am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Chloe will declare herself a himself and take Shaw’s position as “male” leader.
    
    And I’m not even joking.
    
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    October 19, 2020 1:14pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Challenge her on that – then cover your ears. Fucking Hell!
      
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      October 19, 2020 6:26pm
- greybeard
  
  A working group should do the job.
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:32pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yes, what has happened to all the ‘working groups?’
    All abandoned coz they produced nothing, and Jaspinda will make new ones who will perform this time?
    
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    October 19, 2020 6:28pm
Suze Wainwright

I’ve been reading and listening to some political ‘scientists’ who are already coming out to say that a significant amount of Labour’s support this election might be ‘soft’.

I’m speechless – I hope they’ve found a nice way to tell the Labour Party that…
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October 19, 2020 10:17am
- thirteenstars
  
  You might have missed the recent news that Labour has secured a solid majority in parliament and can govern alone for the next three years.
  
  Labour’s soft support beats National’s lack of support any day of the week. The problem with the Nats and with many National voters is they seem to think those votes are theirs by right.
  
  The voters don’t agree.
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:24pm
  - Tall Man
    
    What are you talking about? Voters who voted labour to keep the greens out are soft, both in the head and in their intentions. As soon as the real labour emerges they will be gone. As soon as the media awake from their stupor and start highlighting the inadequacies of ardern the glitter will be gone and the pig will be noticed again.
    
    Anyone silly enough to think ardern and the numbnuts will actually achieve anything worthwhile is in for a surprise. The impending economic misery will consume this government and I doubt many in the cabinet have the necessary fortitude to stay the course.
    
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    October 19, 2020 3:24pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Tall Man, that ‘glitter is iron pyrites – fool’s gold
      
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      October 19, 2020 6:30pm
Catgurl13

Will the media hold Labour to account when they start to fall on their sword? Me thinks not.
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October 19, 2020 10:23am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Do you actually know what ‘fall on their sword” means?
  
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  October 19, 2020 10:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Poor Mike is offended. Falling on the sword means suicide, but also means to take responsibility You know that. It is like the phrase “FUCK ME” when I really do not want that
    
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    October 19, 2020 6:36pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      So, in what way do you think Catgurl expects Labour to ‘fall on their sword?’
      
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      October 19, 2020 7:03pm
- kowtow
  
  See my comment above about ODT editorial > They recognise she can’t , nay won’t deliver and are already writing up the excuses.
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/queen-jacinda%E2%80%99s-road-ahead
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:01pm
  - Inandout
    
    kowtow, it is becoming clear the $50 million bribe has served its purpose and the MSM is on its own. Perhaps we shall begin to see some balanced articles and the MSM may regain some of its previous respect.
    
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    October 19, 2020 5:31pm
- theoldbloke
  
  I think you need to understand media.
  They thrive on clickbaits/headlines to attract eyes.
  
  They then sell these numbers of eyes to Advertisers.
  
  So now that they have a one party parliament!!!
  and a very weak opposition.
  Remember that shock horror gains more clickbaits in this environment than feelz.
  
  My pick is that after the initial didnt they do good, team of 5 million etc.
  
  They will move to high lighting Gummint stuffups and impact of new laws on the downtrodden.
  With occasional coverage of opposition “”hits”” and screwups.
  
  But hey thats just an observation of media here and a broad for the last 50 years
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:18pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    News media are now scrabbling to get as much of the ‘contestable’ $75 million promised by Labour – to cover a huge chunk of their operating costs. The people deciding how that money gets paid out will be Labour appointees. Such a competitive scheme will inevitably magnify the impact of the financial inducement, result in fawning coverage for all things labour.
    
    This is a catastrophe for democracy in NZ, media have, sneakily, quietly, been suborned into being Labour’s propeganda corps.
    
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    October 19, 2020 8:58pm
Michael

After a couple of months kiwiblog free I decided to look in again just to see how kiwibloggers were re-acting to the Labour landslide.
But do we have to put up with those rather repulsive ear wax adverts? I mean fair puts me off my tucker.
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October 19, 2020 11:13am
- DeepBlue
  
  It’s your algorithm – own it. Will follow you everywhere for a month or so.
  
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  October 19, 2020 3:16pm
burt

OK everybody, you voted for nothing more than waving hands and kind platitudes so when that is all you get from this government just remember – it’s what you wanted.
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October 19, 2020 11:13am
edhunter

As some of you may or may not know Queensland is at the midway point of its election campaign, and much like NZ the opposition is being starved of media attention and Palascak and the ruling ALP are going to romp home. As they should, they have had a clear message again on the back of Covid of keeping the borders closed while keeping QLD working, the LNP on the other hand have been all over the place.
At a federal level there is talk that Morrison may call an early election next year so he can ride the current wave of support that his handling of Covid has given him and again the opposition (this time Labor) are being starved of media attention. It would appear that unless your a Daniel Andrews and cock things up beyond all recognition the public are going to support and back you. So regardless of what side of the fence you’re on be it Red or Blue it’s more the luck of the draw if you happen to be in power when this ‘crisis’ started and handled it ‘competently’ you’ll be voted back in with a majority.
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October 19, 2020 11:17am
- mikenmildagain
  
  unless your a Daniel Andrews and cock things up beyond all recognition the public are going to support and back you
  
  See also Trump, Donald…
  
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  October 19, 2020 12:48pm
lifesgood

I have been a life long supporter of the farming community. I have always stuck up for them and have valued their contribution to our economy and country in general. I am totally disillusioned by them now. How in heavens name could they vote a Labour government in, a government that is deeply anti farming ? I’m sorry farmers, in one fell swoop you have lost my respect. You will reap what you have sowed.
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October 19, 2020 11:17am
- chukar
  
  Don’t blame the farmers ,they are less than < 2% of the electorate.
  It is National who caused their own demise.
  
  A party that appears to think a principle is just a school teacher has no hope.
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:23pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Yeah, yeah, that’s the way lifesgood – make the farming community the whipping boy/girl for the failure of National – the so called rural friendly political party.
  National has been actively distancing itself from farmers for years now – there is no loyalty in National.
  As I understand it a lot who voted for Labour were trying to keep the Greens hands off the levers of power.
  And who the hell could blame them for that – apart from you.
  Then we had ACT with a very good social media campaign which directly targeted communities with rural friendly policies.
  National is not the farmers’ party.
  Find someone else to blame.
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:37pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  While there were a small number of farmers that voted Labour to stop the Greens,I think it was the rural townships that went heavily Red, not the actual farmers.
  
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  October 19, 2020 1:59pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Gotta keep that welfare flowing – fuck working
    
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    October 19, 2020 6:39pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  I have to put this aberration down to COVID fear and $50M. National have not been allowed a platform whereas Act has. That was a deliberate divide program. That was Labour Strategy not anything National has done.
  This has to be the dirtiest campaign I have ever encountered.
  
  Money being thrown around out of slush funds during the election should have voided all. The $50M bribe to the media should have disqualified Labour as well–adding another $75M in the week of the election is an insult to the voters. The election date should have been extended to 21 November but they destabilised National (including Muller) and had to take advantage. Their NZF partner seems to have only just escaped Court attention temporarily.
  
  Now Labour are going to have to deliver a sound Government in the face of a global economic crisis. They couldn’t do anything previously how can we or they expect anything more now?
  
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  October 19, 2020 3:47pm
- RJ
  
  Another person who does not support democracy. Crying shame that you don’t have any respect for those people who fought for this country so that people had the freedoms they have now including deciding who they vote for. Put your big girl panties on and grow up. We lost the election, move on.
  
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  October 19, 2020 5:32pm
  - RJ
    
    Oh and btw, I live in Rangitata, our electorate flipped red and the only ones to blame for that are national and their candidates inability to get off her ass and campaign here, she was barely here while labour worked their ass off each day to flip it. The only people to blame for this area flipping red is national
    
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    October 19, 2020 5:39pm
    - oob
      
      I think you mean “arse.”
      
      Protip: when you write using zionAmerican pidgin instead of standard English, you’re readily dismissed.
      
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      October 19, 2020 6:16pm
      - RJ
        
        Personally I just dismiss people who rant on about how people write or spell, shows they have nothing to offer to any conversations but to be an ass
        
        1 1
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        October 19, 2020 7:58pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Same with Upper Harbour. Been blue since 2014. Way back the Bayview/Glenfield area was red under Judy Keal? Unbelievable that it went red.
      Bezzant did not do a good job
      
      3 2
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      October 19, 2020 6:47pm
- GJM
  
  There are 52785 farms in NZ of all sorts in 2016, down from 69000 in 2002. This is including 12000 dairy farms which employ 30,000 people. These are scattered around all of NZ. With1.9 million voters, farmers are irrelevant and a convenient minority who can be discriminated against without the political power to do anything about it.
  
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  October 20, 2020 5:51am
Bobba Fret

Well I hope National don’t do anything stupid and change leader again. Those MP’s that supported the Muller / Kaye takeover, and those MP’s leaking while Judith in charge have a lot to answer for. Hopefully it will be some of them leaving rather than Judith.
18 1
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October 19, 2020 11:24am
Suze Wainwright

Hmm, I’m sure one of the new Labour MPs ‘fights’ for the poor & oppressed, but simply has to get away for their regular European sojourn, darling, sweetie…
8 1
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October 19, 2020 11:31am
- oldfella
  
  SW: Tell all? If you can get it past the Mods… 😉
  
  4 2
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  October 19, 2020 1:20pm
  - Batman
    
    I think she means it in a general way… Like chardonnay socialist jokes.
    
    3 3
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    October 19, 2020 1:52pm
Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes

I think I will re-instate the Adern gagging order. After the 2017 election I muted/changed channel every time she spoke, and it wasnt until 2019 that I heard her voice. At the time I thought I removed the gag too early. Wont make that mistake again. I look forward to 2023 where the only words I want to hear from her is her resignation speech, and departure for the UN. I guess I will get my Govt updates from Deputy PM Kelvin Davis – maybe he will start to speak in Haiku as Dep PM ?
9 3
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October 19, 2020 11:38am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  She will be gone long before that. Hint, climate change, no oil/gas exploration.
  In the bag, and it can’t happen soon enough.
  Jaspinda for UN
  
  3 2
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  October 19, 2020 6:51pm
slijmbal

My God! A pro employer post? Never saw light of day pre-election. Quite sensible points

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/opinion-analysis/300136244/heres-why-its-getting-harder-to-employ-new-zealanders
9 1
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October 19, 2020 11:38am
- Tall Man
  
  Pretty much where my head is as well. The lack of real transparency and elaboration of policy has allowed labour to gain a victory and potentially harm their traditional voter base.
  
  4 3
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  October 19, 2020 3:08pm
Libertarians are right

OK. Game time:
What unannounced policies are you expecting to be Labour’s priorities over the next 3 years?
My picks:
Compulsory Unionism (at the very least a Kiwisaver like situation where you have to opt out).
Gift/Death duty as these are on the books already and just need the rate increased above zero.
Voting age dropped to 16.
Weed decriminalised (if the reeferedum failed).
Increased voting rights for non-citizens and criminals.
Very harsh hate speech laws implemented.
Reduction in criminal resposibility (3 strikes gone, age of accountability raised to 21, reduced sentences etc – unless it’s hate speech related).
More Government control over media.
More anti-farming hatred.
State funded political parties (excluding Union help of course).

Anything else?
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October 19, 2020 1:21pm
- RJ
  
  Voting age won’t be dropped. They don’t have the votes to do so, they’d need, I think 75% of parliament to agree
  
  5 1
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  October 19, 2020 2:30pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  Tracking App to be compulsory
  
  6 3
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  October 19, 2020 2:39pm
  - Inandout
    
    RW, impossible to police and mobiles are notorious for having flat batteries.
    
    2 1
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    October 19, 2020 5:35pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t work for me. My phone can not do more apps – full up
    
    2 2
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    October 19, 2020 6:53pm
- Tall Man
  
  I expect all the above to be on the table but little of it will be achieved. As I have said before, this lot would struggle to run a pissup in a brewery.
  
  5 2
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  October 19, 2020 2:58pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Confiscation of landed estates?
  Liquidation of the Kulaks?
  Nationalisation of grocery shopping?
  Compulsory gay marriage?
  
  7 3
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  October 19, 2020 3:28pm
  - MCos
    
    Tractor factory on every golf course.
    Compulsory study of PM for Life Ardern’s Thoughts
    Ban applause at Crusaders games
    Re-education camps on Cornwall Park & Ellerslie Racetrack for Epsom voters.
    Walking trains
    
    9 2
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    October 19, 2020 4:14pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Yes, it does look like the Estate & Gift Duties have not been abolished but the property is no longer subject to charge. In view of our Tax Lawyer Leader of HM’s Opposition will they dare to attempt a new impost?
  
  3 3
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  October 19, 2020 3:33pm
- kiwikidsnz
  
  SJ likely changes
  
  A family law legislation change is on the cards following the Law Society’s review/recommendations that were published earlier this year. Ringfencing relationship property from previous relationships (now that many more woman are getting caught out with bringing property into new relationships) & a reintroduction of alimony – they had another woke word for this but the effect was the same.
  
  Another Law Society review. Sexual assault trials will change to expressly prohibit cross examination unless the judge agrees relevance & the victim may also be excused appearing in person taking away the historical right of accused to face accuser. Because women never lie & make false accusations.
  
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  October 19, 2020 5:04pm
surfing

Who cares about the NZ election.

I want to know who wins the US election , and is the US headed for major civil unrest?

And, will China go to war against the west? China are claiming international waters as sovereign territory. Chinese belligerence cannot be tolerated.
9 4
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October 19, 2020 1:32pm
- RJ
  
  To answer you last question I’d say China has been carrying out a soft war for the past decade. But now their economy is in the shit they may take that more open
  
  8 2
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  October 19, 2020 2:30pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    China’s economy is doing rather well now…
    Check out this recent interview
    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p08vcxp4
    
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    October 19, 2020 7:38pm
    - RJ
      
      I was talking to someone at my physio a few weeks who said the last time he was in China earlier this year that once thriving businesses areas were now empty, that the issues with America had caused huge closures there and the Chinese govt were throwing everything at trying to hide it.
      
      4 1
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      October 19, 2020 7:57pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Democrats, no, and no.
  
  4 4
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  October 19, 2020 3:26pm
- MCos
  
  “Who cares about the NZ election.”
  
  Everybody (else) on this forum, from my observation.
  
  “Will China go to war against the West?”
  
  No. The West might go to war against China, but that means America & they’re hardly going to get involved defending some corrupt SE Asian country again. Those guys have their own association of nations to defend each other. Which they won’t. They’re all up to their eyeballs in league with China.
  
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  October 19, 2020 4:03pm
rangitoto

Brady to face axe. This is concerning:

https://www.afr.com/policy/foreign-affairs/nz-academic-faces-axe-over-china-research-20201016-p565oa
5 0
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October 19, 2020 2:24pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Paywalled.
  But the story was also here:
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300128923/dismayed-academics-rally-behind-annemarie-brady-over-china-research-paper
  This ‘review’ is probably intended to have a chilling effect, as NZ universities are hot for Chinese money.
  
  6 3
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  October 19, 2020 4:59pm
RW Capitalist

https://falconoilandgas.com/beetaloo-australia/
No captains calls in Australia.
They are expecting this on line by next year.
While we will be headed toward 3rd world economic status.
4 2
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October 19, 2020 2:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  South Venezuela in 5 to 8 years under Jaspinda. She could still be dictator of NZ is 30 years, think about that
  
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  October 19, 2020 6:59pm
jon

With the upcoming appointment of a new Governor General next year by the Labour Govt one can imagine diversity will be at the forefront in making the decision..one thing i do know if you are a older white str8 male you wont get a look in for the position!
6 2
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October 19, 2020 2:41pm
- barnacle bill
  
  The next Governor General may well be Sir Winston R Peters.
  
  Either that or he will get a senior diplomatic posting overseas.
  His talent will not be wasted.
  
  0 4
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  October 19, 2020 7:32pm
  - oob
    
    The next Governor General may well be Sir Winston R Peters.
    
    Now that could be interesting.
    
    The Governor General is a Viceroy. The appointment of that viceroy is entirely within the Monarch’s gift i.e., the government of the day can make a recommendation but Her Majesty isn’t obliged to accept it.
    
    And where Winston is concerned, Elizabeth II is unlikely to be dissuaded from a “fuck no!” stance.
    
    My guess is Uncle Helen the Archfiend Clark is a more likely candidate. But as Uncle Helen has his heart set on being NZ’s first president as opposed to the viceroy of the hated colonialist monarch, I can’t see that happening either.
    
    3 2
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    October 19, 2020 8:23pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The Queen is obliged to accept her government’s advice on who to appoint.
      
      1 0
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      October 20, 2020 7:10am
- Bill Felt
  
  jerry mateparae
  
  2 1
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  October 19, 2020 8:03pm
Tauhei Notts

I think a good example of how the Greens have transitioned from a party for conservation to a party of urban liberals who think that butter comes from a supermarket is best shown by the figures in Coromandel.
You may recall that prior to Chloe Swarbrick the Green’s only electorate MP was from Coromandel.
This year the Greens got 5.29% of the party vote in Coromandel compared to Act’s 10.00%.
9 1
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October 19, 2020 4:11pm
- Inandout
  
  TN, this is why Labour should govern alone, just like with FPP; stability, no deals, no CoL shambles and no one else to blame. Can Jacinda behave like a big girl and make decisions..based on departmental advice?
  
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  October 19, 2020 5:44pm
RJ

Sadly this nut job and his co nut job got a following overseas while they were verbally vomiting their rubbish online.

The Electoral Commission has issued a blunt response to Billy Te Kahika Jr after the Advance NZ co-leader claimed the election was “rigged”, and that his party’s 0.9 percent share of the vote showed it had been “diddled”.

Newshub
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October 19, 2020 5:21pm
- Mike
  
  I can think of another nutjob who will be making claims of election rigging in about 3 weeks…
  
  4 4
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  October 19, 2020 6:29pm
  - RJ
    
    Don’t be so hard on yourself
    
    3 2
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    October 19, 2020 7:11pm
RJ

From Bernard Kerik, some of the damming information coming out, including that a Chinese whistleblower handed over 3 hard drives with information and photos of hunter raping Chinese children.

I personally had the opportunity to review the hard drive belonging to Hunter Biden. If the
@FBI and @TheJusticeDept arrested Paul Manafort, then Hunter, James, and @JoeBiden belongs in handcuffs? AND THAT, is just for starters. #China #Iraq #Ukraine

https://twitter.com/BernardKerik/status/1317269312172949506
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October 19, 2020 6:06pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  photos of hunter raping Chinese children
  
  At Comet Pizza, no doubt.
  
  1 7
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  October 19, 2020 6:57pm
  - RJ
    
    Aww poor Mikey, you won’t be able to say, awww it was just a minor offence this time.
    
    5 2
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    October 19, 2020 7:11pm
kowtow

TV3 “news” launches the Labour Party 2023 election campaign with their lead item being an attack on Judith Collins as leader of the Nats and trying to promote the idea that Luxon , who hasn’t yet taken his seat will make a run.

Toxic Tova again.
8 2
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October 19, 2020 6:25pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123131918/man-who-allegedly-killed-daughter-in-meth-rage-found-naked-with-pitchfork-whistle
This piece of excrement should be taken to the nearest rubbish tip and shot.
What an appalling person. What an unbelieveable act.
5 2
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October 19, 2020 6:28pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

National/ACT’s electorate vote was about 5% higher than their party vote. That’s pretty clear evidence of a large portion of their supporters tactically voting Labour to keep toxic Greens out.
2 1
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October 19, 2020 9:14pm
Kiwi_in_Paris

Looks like people are slowly starting to wake up (except Kiwis, lol):

https://cairnsnews.org/2020/10/16/canadian-politician-leaks-new-covid-lockdown-plan-and-great-reset-dictatorship-australia-is-part-of-it/

https://twitter.com/TheFreds/status/1317910574894731264/photo/1
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October 19, 2020 9:42pm

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