General Debate 21 October 2020

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Captain Mainwaring

So Brownlee and Smith are planning to stay on despite being so comprehensively trounced in their electorates.
Well if that’s the case it will be the end of any support I’m going to give to the National Party. Surely they must have a way of getting rid of such long-term troughers who have been rejected by the voters.
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October 21, 2020 8:01am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I can understand Brownlee staying on, given National’s only two Canterbury MP’s are Matt Doocey (Waimakariri) and newcomer Nicola Grigg (Selwyn), leaving Christchurch’s five metropolitan seats red. He should not be looking to stand again in 2023 however
  
  However Nick Smith should be thinking about his future, having been an MP continuously since 1990. It is time for him to move on. However if Smith is determined to stay on, National should nominate him as Deputy Speaker, where he would have to work alongside Trevor Mallard. There would be a bit or karma there for both men!
  
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  December 21, 2019 8:18am
  - cmm
    
    Maybe, but as a list MP he’s no longer representing Canterbury.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:28am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      But he can maintain his office in Ilam, albeit as a List MP, and it provides a place where people can go with their problems. List MP’s can achieve just as much as electorate MP’s, and in the case of the two new Chch electorate MP’s, probably more.
      
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      October 21, 2020 8:33am
      - cmm
        
        “can” and actuality are two different things.
        
        In my experience Brownlee was a highly effective electoral MP when he was also being overworked as a minister. However he was far less effective as an electoral MP in the last term when he had no ministerial responsibilities.
        
        That’s my experience, YMMV.
        
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        October 21, 2020 8:51am
      - Isobar
        
        cmm – thats exactly right.
        
        Brownlee was MIA, both in Ilam and Christchurch but also in the campaign.
        
        I think it sums up Nationals problem in the south island, they were just missing in action and took it all for granted.
        
        Collins hardly spent time in CHCH, when the CHCH debate was on for example, she spent all day in Auckland, flew in for the debate and flew back out to Auckland immediately after.
        
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        October 21, 2020 11:43am
  - backster
    
    I don’t listen to much Parliament but I rate those two as probably the best orators Brownlee for his wit and Smith for his passion. I seem to recall Nelson was a strong Labour seat before Nick grabbed it.Still [like me] they may have outlived their time.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:37am
  - pdm
    
    Smith is very effective at question time and often had Little on the back foot only to be stymied by the odious and biased Mallard.
    
    If I was Judith Collins I would give him 18 months of free rein to attack Little and to show the inadequacies of Mallards stewardship. If he gets kicked out of the house a few times it should highlight the bias.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:52am
    - Unity
      
      Smith is an excellent constituency MP and works very hard. It is good for Nelson that he has decided to stay on.
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:42am
  - MrsAnnie
    
    Gerry reason for staying doesn’t hold water. If (F#@kn useless) Maureen Pugh remains as a list MP then the South Island will have 9 National MPs for 1 million people. Thats 50% more than the rest of the country. The list is clearly based on patronage rather than merit or the ability to win party votes.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:53am
  - Isobar
    
    Brownlee is too divisive and has too much baggage. Chch has had enough of him. Even Ilam, where a blue tennis court could win the seat is done with him.
    
    If he stays on to become National’s Christchurch representative, National will really struggle to bounce back here.
    
    We need candidates that offer something for the future, not from the past.
    
    Maybe National can promote two newer promising south island based candidates to the next two top list positions, so that when these two retire, the South Island can actually be served much better.
    
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    October 21, 2020 11:39am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  I am so disappointed with their decisions as well. May be they want to stay on for a year or so to ensure there is stability and some continuity before leaving by middle of next year. That is a possibility also.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:04am
  - Maxx
    
    More likely holding on to a pay packet until they can find some cushy directorships or consulting jobs
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:39am
    - GazzaW
      
      You obviously don’t know these two men Maxx. Not a great call.
      
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      October 21, 2020 10:48am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Most people have moved on, except us political tragics on KiwiBlog and other blogs. The last thing National needs in 2020 is more MSM headlines drip fed about MPs leaving all through Summer.
    
    Do the review, 3 or 4 people leave at once, mid 2021. Slip the news out when Labour are facing some crisis.
    
    A planned comeback campaign is needed not all this dancing to the media and reaction. Let Judith do her thing.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:15am
    - Isobar
      
      I think the review should have collins be one of those people to go, not now, but do a properly timed handover of leadership.
      
      If Collins is in for 2023, it will be the best gift to Labour. Collins just doesnt resonate well with the average centre swing voter.
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:47am
- mandk
  
  You could make the same complaint about all but one Green MPs, all but one ACT MPs and a few Labour MPs.
  
  It’s the way the system works.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:06am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I agree. But for those two, their time is up. In the case of Smith, it was up 6 years ago.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:46am
    - Positan
      
      You speak from basic ignorance.
      
      Outside the rabidly Left, most Nelson people would readily acknowledge and agree that Nick Smith has been the most hard-working and committed MP Nelson has ever had.
      
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      October 21, 2020 9:15am
      - IC5000
        
        Someone wrote in the election night post that when Smith visited the local Labour soirée to concede they gave him a round of ‘for he’s a jolly good fellow’ and an applause. He appears to be well regarded locally and Benedict Yu doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
        
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        October 21, 2020 10:21am
      - Frank Hematuria
        
        Labour held the Nelson seat from 1954 to 1996. Nick Smith has held it (later Tasman) since. That tells you something about his appeal locally. But the Tasman population has changed, no longer as rural as it once was and filling up with woke younger people with Labour to thank for their Working for Families subsidies from the taxpayer.
        
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        October 21, 2020 10:31am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I was not referring to his local popularity. I am questioning his vision and competence. He was a Minister for 9 years in the last Government. Can you list some notable achievements?
        
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        October 21, 2020 11:23am
      - jon
        
        Good response Positan re Nick Smith..Nelson previously always Labour and served by a string of very lazy MPs who took their hold on the seat for granted..will the new MP be any different..Nick served Nelson well.
        
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        October 21, 2020 12:59pm
      - mandk
        
        Indeed, it was reported that, when Nick Smith went to the Nelson Labour Party officers to congratulate the victor, he was greeted with a sponstnaeous rendition of For He’s A Jolly Good Fellow.
        
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        October 21, 2020 2:43pm
- Tall Man
  
  I disagree. Their experience is needed for a while.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:09am
- Albert_Ross
  
  And yet we slammed Jacinda for her lack of commitment when she said she wouldn’t stay on if she didn’t win the election. Is this another of those things that’s OK if the left does it?
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:12am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Is that fair? Some good people were lost under the red wave. Some electorates were simply crazed with the MSM’s endless fairy dust and covid fear.
  
  I think it would be fair to judge such Nat candidates on their merits.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:15am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “I think it would be fair to judge such Nat candidates on their merits.”
    
    I agree. I have. Both should go. If they stay, it should be for 2 years, IF they can help bed in a new leadership team. National needs to pick some of its younger capable MPs and back them.
    
    I regret to say I cannot see Judith being PM. I like her but she is too polarising.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:49am
    - Hollyfield
      
      While I too have always liked Judith but thought her too polarising to be leader, I did hope she would be chosen as leader when Todd Muller stepped down – it was time to take a risk.
      
      Now that she is there, I think she has to be given the opportunity to continue as leader, and to be fully supported by the team. She worked her butt off in the few months she has been leader, and it was always going to be a hard task to beat Jacinda in the Covid environment. There is nothing to be gained by replacing a leader now, and Judith has the determination to see this through, and can offer a strong alternative to Jacinda when the Covid gloss wears off, as I have no doubt it will.
      
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      October 21, 2020 9:30am
      - Positan
        
        In all probability if Judith had been elected Leader instead of Simon Bridges, National would done far, far better at the polls. She’s a strong and decisive Leader – which is what leadership is all about. If you think she’s “polarising,” how on earth would one describe Ardern?
        
        Bridges must have feared Steven Joyce as a potential contender who would have constantly shown up Bridges manifold inadequacies. Joyce was vital in National’s caucus and would have stayed on after 2017 if only he’d been able to be National’s Finance spokesman. Bridges however, showed complete inability, shortsightedness and a marked lack of leadership qualities by giving it to Amy Adams – losing Joyce in the process.
        
        Just watch Judith. She’s more capable and far more highly qualified than Ardern and National will do very well by way of her leadership
        
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        October 21, 2020 11:44am
    - Isobar
      
      I agree, Imagine if Phil Goff stayed around after 2011. It would have been the best gift for National.
      
      The same thinking already applies here, in the electorates eyes, Collins has be thrashed by Ardern. She’s damaged goods and If she is there in 2023, it wont be a contest. It sucks i know, but thats politics and ultimately National needs to decide if it wants to win, or if it just wants to not hurt feelings.
      
      However i do agree with giving her time to steady the ship and have a peaceful handover of power before 2023.
      
      Once again I am already reading commentary around it just needing Jacinda’s fairy dust to wear off before Collin’s is a contender. Remember Labour were trying the whole thing too with key hoping his popularity would wane and it backfired spectacularly.
      
      In fact if Key didnt resign, he probably would have won a 4th term comfortably.
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:56am
    - jon
      
      If people find Collins too polarising it means they have been consumed by the WOKE culture and are too scared to express a different opinion in case they are seen to be unkind or not nice..Collins definition of WOKE was very apt *a lot of nonsense*!!
      
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      October 21, 2020 1:12pm
  - MCos
    
    “Some electorates were simply crazed with the MSM’s endless fairy dust and covid fear.”
    There was a swing of more than ten thousand votes against Gerry Brownlee in Ilam, which incorporates some pretty affluent Christchurch suburbs.
    I don’t think the media had much to do with his downfall. Rather the chickens had come home to roost for the King of Grump.
    
    “Is it Anna Bracewell Worrall? Yep. She should know better than asking this. Your people give me the shits. They’re bloody lazy as buggery,”
    G Brownlee to some junior reporter
    
    What constituent wants to see their MP for help if they’ve seen them say that on the Telly?
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:29am
    - Tall Man
      
      All of which is true and he had good reason to believe the cameras were off.
      
      There have been many times when interviewees have mis-spoken and the media has been decent enough to bin the footage. This was malice by a left biased media organisation and should have been punished.
      
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      October 21, 2020 4:08pm
- amospicton
  
  Not sure I agree Captain. Both have skills and experience that will be useful. Both are hardworking and qualify for the full pension so the term trougher doesn’t really apply – the easy option for both is probably to retire. Also need to look at who would be next on the list if they went and ask whether that would be an upgrade. The whole plan has to be around being the most effective opposition and both Smith and Brownlee are very effective in the House.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:16am
  - artemisia
    
    Quite possibly they offered to retire but offer was declined. We may never know. Ms Collins needs all the experiences and trusted colleagues she can gather.
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:26am
  - Paulus
    
    Being effective in the House cuts no ice with the so called media outside.
    They are not Labour/Greens so nothing they do is right or can be.
    
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    October 21, 2020 2:08pm
  - freethinker
    
    Is it possible that the next on the list are not future starts and so time i needed to persuade them to retire with the promise of a better position in 2023 and allow better candidates on the list to come through?
    
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    October 21, 2020 6:22pm
- MCos
  
  I, too, think it’s time for these two & Judith Collins, for that matter to move on, but calling them troughers is plain nasty.
  I’m sure there are some people who go into parliament and don’t pull their weight, but these people wouldn’t be those.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:18am
- cmm
  
  When you party vote you’re voting for the list.
  
  If you didn’t think Brownlee and Smith should be getting in on the list then you should not have voted for them.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:27am
  - Steve Todd
    
    As I recall, Captain Mainwaring informed us that he voted Electorate blue and Party yellow, so he didn’t vote for them.
    
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    October 21, 2020 3:48pm
- Pateke
  
  Great! Gerry Brownlee and Nick Smith will continue to clog the arteries of the National Party and prevent invigoration of its bloodstream. Well done lads!
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:31am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    If they resigned, who would come in to replace them? The next four on the list are Harete Hipango, Jonathan Young, Tim Macindoe and Kanwaljit Singh Bakshi. No disrespect to them, but they are all ex-MPs – not new blood.
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:20am
    - Steve Todd
      
      And they’re all hopelessly conservative, too. Consequently, I’m pleased Gerry and Nick are staying put.
      
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      October 21, 2020 3:58pm
- peterwn
  
  Your argument is flawed. Many voters cast the same vote for candidate as for party. They do not realise that (in most cases) they can vote for their preferred candidate independently of the party they support without affecting the party’s election chances. Hence worthy electorate candidates can lose their seats merely because there is a swing away their party.
  By your reasoning, Chris Bishop should walk too, since he lost his Hutt South seat. But there would be an enormous uproar in the community and in the National Party if Bish and Ladyhawk were told to clear off and look for alternative opportunities. Bish will continue maintaining a high electorate profile and supporting his community while his opponent will probably remain almost invisible.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:41am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I don’t recall many Education adverts re how MMP works this time. I think many people forget over 3 years and many remain confused about splitting their two ticks.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:26am
- rockape
  
  Smith was elected for 30 years what changed in him to lose? Don’t you thing it was others fault and maybe fare weather friends like you?
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:51am
- hullkiwi
  
  Captain, I can see your point. However, as I wrote yesterday, National now has significant problems providing presence south of Taupo and King Country-Taranaki. If, National throw out Btownlee or Smith, what guarantee is there of a presence in Christchurch (with all city seats now red) and Nelson. Remove the presence of a MP, means parliamentary funding stops, means it is harder to give focus to organise party activities, it is harder to raise money and it will be harder to find/select high calibre candidates.
  
  Secondly, as I wrote yesterday, of the 35 MPs returned on Saturday, only 8 have cabinet experience under Key and English. Remember how we criticised the 2017-20 CoL for its lack of ministerial experience (and it showed). Throw out Brownlee and Smith now, and Judith is left with herself and five other former ministers, two of whom had less than 12 months in cabinet under English. Hardly an experienced team for Judith and the caucus to:
  1. Hold Jacinda and Labour to account; and
  2. To ensure they don’t bleed even more support to Act.
  
  What I’ve written is not to suggest that National has to hang on to Smith and Brownlee because there are no other options, but what I am arguing is, that any steps taken as to the composition of the caucus are measured. For instance, I am aware of feelings about some other MPs also because they are considered useless or dead wood, but now is not the time to throw others under the bus, and destabilise matters further. Rather, a considered approach and strategy to replace at the next election.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:51am
  - Stephen Russell
    
    I very much agree. Panic is not productive. And it makes sense to give things a year to figure out who among the new intake are the stars, and then make room for them to step up to more important roles.
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:23am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    Wellington is well served by 2 National List MPs. Chris Bishop has been very hard working. Nicola Willis is high profile, but a bit of an unknown quantity.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:00am
  - madamezucchininz
    
    Hubby here . . . wife has suggested that the Nats grab that young fella that was running in Palmy Nth – the 19yo – & stick him in Ilam as a sort of “Gerry’s apprentice” Do it earlier rather than later so he can make his mark. There has to be new blood but learning from the old school types can’t be a bad idea surely
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:26am
    - Flossie
      
      And where will his wages come from, and his housing? Gerry should share his salary? Don’t think there is any Apprentice MP allowance anywhere.
      
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      October 21, 2020 12:43pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Agree. Brownlee & Smith need to stay for about 2 years, and during that time they can give stability & firepower to the Opposition, and at the same time train up a couple of new promising list MP’s to blood them in 2023.
    
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    October 21, 2020 11:27am
- RJ
  
  National need experienced MPs to rebuild, then hand the party over.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:55am
- KevO'Brien
  
  All MP’s are list members so are automatically kept if high enough on the list. Once the list positions are fixed they are not changeable except by a member resigning.
  Gerry is needed in Christchurch–the place is a sea of Red.
  Smith keeps Speaker Mallard on notice.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:19am
  - lifesgood
    
    Why is everyone getting so excited about Brownlee and Smith and calling for their resignation? They are only 2 MPS and have a wealth of knowledge and experience they can pass on to the newbies. It is never wise to throw the baby out with the bath water. I am not excited by the calls for young mps. Jacinda was touted as young, Chloe Swarbrick is young, just bear that in mind.
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:38am
  - peterwn
    
    No. A candidate can choose not to go on the party’s list although parties would generally expect all their candidates to be on the list. Greg O’Connor was a notable exception (it was rumoured his proposed list position was so low that he considered it a campaigning handicap so got special dispensation not to be on Labour’s list).
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:22am
- Frank the tank
  
  Absolute madness. Especially Brownlee. While I have no strong feelings either way it’s clear the people of Ilam, Christchurch and the South Island did.
  
  Political arrogance nothing more, nothing less. It’s the type of behaviour i’d expect from messrs Davis and Tywford.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:20am
- Maxx
  
  They’ve both been in parliament so long they don’t know how to do anything else
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:37am
  - peterwn
    
    They could both pick up post Parliament jobs if they chose to. They would both be financially secure if they left Parliament today and would both find some vocation that they would enjoy.
    Incidentally Jo Hayes has already landed a post Parliament job, and it is most likely the remaining National ex MP’s would have found good jobs or similar in the next three months. They can then decide over the next year whether to throw their hats into the political ring again or whether to call it a day with politics.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:34am
- DeepBlue
  
  Brownlee and Smith were so high on the list they were guaranteed to stay. Maybe the people in Nelson actually want two MPs. They knew Labour was going to win, so they wanted their electorate MP to be from Labour.
  
  This is a decision for the local electorate offices the who represents National. If Smith and Brownlee cruise they will be booted out. If they work damned hard they may be retained.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:23am
- kaykaybee
  
  With regard to Parliamentary process Brownlee is indispensable. Also, keeping some experienced Sth Island representation in the public eye should be a strategic positive I would have thought. Not for the full term though.
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:40am
- softail 1450
  
  C M, come on captain ,who else is going to give either of the two useless bastards a job ?
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:44am
  - peterwn
    
    See my earlier posting. They are no doubt financially secure even if they choose not to work again. However if either left Parliament he would soon find a good fun job or similar. The only ex National MP likely to have to visit a WINZ office (National Super excepted) would be JLR.
    
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    October 21, 2020 1:48pm
Simon

Phil Twyford Phil where are you? The election is over. It is safe for you to come out. Phil its time for another speech. Everyone misses you except Cindy.

New Phil speech another petrol tax increase to ‘finance” shit that will never get built
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October 21, 2020 8:06am
- pdm
  
  Phil Twyford – number 4 or 5 on the Labour list.
  
  What quality they display.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:54am
- tf78
  
  Simon, Phil is still living in his ‘artists impression’ of how idyllic things should be with a tram to the airport and bicycle lanes. Shame about the real world that involves actual people and traffic, that’s where he goes wrong.
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:14am
Simon

Shopping Malls the powerhouse that drives the NZ economy. NZ will bury the West.
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October 21, 2020 8:10am
Simon

If Biden wins I am moving to New Zealand.
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October 21, 2020 8:10am
- MCos
  
  I believe Trump said if Biden wins he’s leaving the US.
  I’m picking if he loses decisively he’ll resign so he doesn’t have to front up for Sleepy Joe’s inauguration and poor old Pence will pardon him.
  Apparently Scotland is preparing to welcome him over there where he has a golf course.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:40am
  - Simon
    
    Trump will piss in.
    
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    October 21, 2020 11:29am
    - Batman
      
      In his own cereal?
      
      Gross.
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Be pissed on (again)?
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:41am
      - Batman
        
        Maybe he’s talking about the piss-weak state of the campaign financials?
        
        “NEWS: Trump’s campaign committee expected to report only **~$63 million** entering Oct.
        
        That’s about half of what it had entering Sept.
        
        RNC $78.1m
        Trump Victory $90.3m
        T-MAGA $20.1m.
        
        Total between 4 entities previously announced as $251.4 million.”
        https://t.co/f6kESRNtmh
        
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        October 21, 2020 12:44pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Grifting.
        
        The Trump campaign is mainly a money making con for Donald.
        
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        October 21, 2020 4:47pm
      - Batman
        
        Given it is now effectively broke and pulling advertising buys from places like Wisconsin and michigan, either the Trump’s already have their skim or it’s a shitty money maker!
        
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        October 21, 2020 5:07pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Oh dear, FBI and DNI say that Hunter Biden emails ar legit and NOT “ Russian Disinformation”. And the FBI have the laptop (and have had it for nearly a year), and a Grand Jury is involved.
    
    So those 50 “Intelligence Community” ex participants who just signed a letter saying that this has all the hallmarks of Russian Disinformation chose a rather bad time to be such outright partisans and to ignore common sense. Mind you, they are the same people who authoritatively told us that there was WMD in Iraq.
    
    So the emails are legitimate as presented, and Joe’s bagman is exposed. And so, too, is Joe Biden for corruptly accepting bribes laundered through his family.
    
    Oh dear, what new excuse will the Democrats and their sycophants in the MSM be forced to come up with now.
    
    Maybe it will be, “sure it looks bad, but everyone does it and hey, look, Trump is Putin’s puppet !” Or maybe “hey, Trump disrespected the military AGAIN, said they were all losers, as reported by 5, get that 5, anonymous sources, who are really, really reliable”.
    
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    October 21, 2020 3:04pm
    - Batman
      
      Ed you’re being a dumbarse just like the others.
      
      The loyal Trump political appointees have said it is “not Russian disinformation”. That’s a very specific choice of words, isn’t it?
      
      They’re not saying it isn’t linked to russia-friendly ex-ukranian stooges with a grudge.
      
      They’re not saying it hasn’t been pushed by Russian intel.
      
      They’re only saying that it isn’t material directly created by Russian intelligence to as disinformation.
      
      They don’t say it’s not misinformation, either.
      
      There are no bribes, no bagmen, and no solid evidence.
      
      It’s going to be very amusing watching you guys flail just like your hero.
      
      Have a great afternoon!
      
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      October 21, 2020 4:42pm
Simon

New Zealand house prices will rise by up to 7 per cent in 2020, according to economists at one of New Zealand’s major banks,”

“Treasury expects unemployment to spike to 7.8 per cent in March 2022”

Soaring Tax free capital gains and soaring unemployment. Up the workers!

Only Labour.
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October 21, 2020 8:10am
- peterwn
  
  Unless Labour has an enormous attitude change then the housing shortage is unlikely to diminish over the next three years. Perhaps home owners factored this into their voting decisions.
  I think most people would support the Government taking positive steps to ‘crack’ the housing shortage, as long as does not affect their personal living situation (NIMBY). Therein lies the dilemma for which ever main party is in power.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:47am
- Colville
  
  New Zealand house prices will rise by up to 7 per cent in 2020
  
  Its only Auckland that is holding that average rise back from being double that figure.
  
  My Son is looking in Wellington…a million bucks for a 100M2 cross leased shit box in Johnsonville!
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:52am
  - Batman
    
    I’m in Wellington and I have to say that sounds like a exceptionally bad deal, even by Wellington standards.
    
    Tell him to look at the Hutt or something!
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:00am
    - plc
      
      Absolutely.
      
      Last year totally gutted and refitted two bed townhouse in Jville/Churton Park……resale value $550-600k…..rental better at $600 pw
      
      If he wants to pay $800k he can have it…..
      
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      October 21, 2020 9:14am
    - Colville
      
      I think he is trying to soften his old man up … but I am deaf to the sad violin music !
      
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      October 21, 2020 9:16am
      - Batman
        
        Hahaha very well played
        
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        October 21, 2020 9:45am
  - Sacha
    
    When I sold real estate in Wellington, the election of a labour government was a cause for rejoicing – the public service would expand and the demand for houses rise – and prices would rise.
    Then national would come along and cut down the numbers –
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:12am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Over the past 10 yearsour properties have earned more each year than we have from our other sources. Go figure.
  And does it make us feel wealthy. No but it has helped fund our kids into property.
  Weird world we live in.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:05am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Prove it. Look again in 6 months. The global financial situation is very weak. We may get a boost from excessive USA money creation which may boost prices but it is no backstop for the future. Assets that increase can flop and the envious bring out their taxes to further the pain.
  
  Most fluid economic situation at present and any govt making plans would be foolish not to be very tentative–not a time for promises. Ideology does not affect external factors.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:27am
- kaykaybee
  
  When my leftist friends ask if I’m devastated by the result, I’m answering with a resounding NO!
  I proclaim that I’m sitting pretty with money to invest in real estate, interest rates at a historically low rates and essentially an ‘I’m alright Jack, pull up the ladder’ arrogance. I guess it’s my way of coping. ?
  
  I always add that I am fearful for those less well off and without a foot on the ladder. That said, they must have known what they’ve voted for. Sanctimoniously, I’ll tell them not to come moaning to me about losing their job, their Mum and her knee op, their child’s school under resourcing and the price of everything through the roof as businesses, freight companies etc hike prices due to the minimum wage, holidays and doubled sick leave.
  
  Got to get some enjoyment
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:50am
Paulus

Patience dear boy – until the full results are known nothing is off the table.
I expect both will retire in the short fullness of time.
You have been listening to the media again out to do the National Party as usual.
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October 21, 2020 8:11am
- amospicton
  
  Yes Paulus I was unfortunate enough to catch a bit of ‘Breakfast’ this morning. They interviewed Judith – actually quite politely and she commented that the odds were always against them which is obviously true. But afterwards Campbell criticised her for not saying that during the campaign! She shouldn’t have said she expected to win apparently. Just patently ridiculous and symptomatic of the partisanship of our state owned, tax payer funded media.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:36am
  - Inandout
    
    amo, Campbell’s thinking is ivory tower academic. If he ran a business without showing enthusiasm or a positive attitude he would surely fail. Also this is why academics should be kept well away from handling other peoples’ money.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:59am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The media must be reined in. TV1 presenting fictional hints as facts. This has been used throughout the election and bred up into storms of anger to unseat Bridges and others or to divert anything from impacting their chosen $50M benefactors.
  How can a govt owned TV network be so partial as against the country?
  What has happened to NZ to allow this to occur and to tolerate it?
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:34am
  - MCos
    
    “The media must be reined in”
    
    How does that square with freedom of speech?
    
    The media is reined in in totalitarian states like China, Thailand, Vietnam . .
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:47am
    - sooty
      
      The truth and nothing but the truth, would cause our media to collapse!
      
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      October 21, 2020 10:20am
    - MCos
      
      Here’s an example of “reigning in”
      https://twitter.com/ajenglish/status/1318752653757845506?s=21
      
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      October 21, 2020 4:54pm
    - freethinker
      
      I expect media to accurately report facts and then express their opinion, their current form is to present their opinion as facts.
      ,
      .
      
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      October 21, 2020 9:19pm
Yvette

French beheading
The attack came as Macron is pushing for a new law against what he calls domestic “separatism,” notably by Islamic radicals accused of indoctrinating vulnerable people through home schools, extremist preaching and other activities.
France has the largest Muslim population in Western Europe with up to 5 million members, and Islam is the country’s No. 2 religion.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/paris-decapitation-teacher-macron-attack-terror-b1083211.html

The government also said it was probing 51 French Muslim associations.

Muslim leaders in France have condemned the attack. “A civilisation does not kill an innocent person, barbarism does,” Tareq Oubrou, imam of a mosque in Bordeaux, told France Inter.

Islamists would not be allowed to sleep quietly in France, Macron was quoted as saying in a cabinet meeting on Sunday.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/428726/french-police-raid-homes-of-suspected-islamists

In a keenly awaited speech, Macron said a minority of France’s estimated six million Muslims were in danger of forming a “counter-society”.
His proposals include stricter oversight of schooling and control over foreign funding of mosques.
He had been under pressure to address radical Islam amid security fears.
But his comments were condemned by some Muslim activists who accused him of trying to repress Islam in the country.
Under France’s strict principles of secularism, or laпcitй, the government is separated by law from religious institutions. The idea is that people of different religions and beliefs are equal before the law.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/world/427505/france-s-macron-vows-to-fight-islamist-separatism

Islamists would not be allowed to sleep quietly in France, Macron was quoted as saying.
In France “They are not us”
Here in New Zealand it is (usually) Islamic women who wear the hijab, displaying their allegiance to this political religion.
Here, it is they, self-identitied, who will suffer a certain amount of reaction to what happens in France. (as asserted in the portion of the Royal Commission Report which an Islamic women’s group have already released)

Reputedly, Andrew Little plans to legislate in this area but there needs to be answers to some questions, a basic one being “Is the political religion of Islam – that would aim at “domestic separatism” in France, acting through dozens of overseas funded Islamic institutions – the same Islam religion as has members wear hijab on New Zealand buses and in New Zealand streets and communities?”

We await the Royal Commission Report on the Christchurch mosques massacres.
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October 21, 2020 8:14am
- peterwn
  
  France used to have just the thing for such radicals – like for like.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Watch out for hate crime law too. Muslims may, Christians may not…
  https://www.rt.com/op-ed/504018-scotland-hate-crime-law/
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:36am
- sharont
  
  If I were Macron I wouldn’t be resting too easy in my bed at night. He has risen in my estimation though.
  
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  October 21, 2020 3:54pm
kowtow

After all the braying about how “diverse” this parliament is they now tell us nearly 20 % are lawyers. And to add insult to injury they say that’s a good thing.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/428797/parliament-still-packed-with-lawyers-but-is-that-a-bad-thing
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October 21, 2020 8:21am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Once it used be stacked with school teachers/university lecturers….
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:45am
- MCos
  
  Could be worse. Imagine if 20% were rugby league referees who referred all decisions to the bunker.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:45am
  - Flossie
    
    Imagine if the were Labour Party MPs who referred everything to working groups!
    
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    October 21, 2020 11:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  How many queer lawyers?
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:38am
  - sooty
    
    Oh come on! We all know lawyers are all queer!
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:22am
- Libertarians are right
  
  20/121 is 16.5%
  21/121 is 17.4%
  I wouldn’t call that nearly 20%, it’s closer to 15%.
  
  The real issue is that Labour have 64 MPs, 14 of whom are Lawyers (21.9%) and the other 50 MPs (78.1%) have no discernable skills relevant to being MPs.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:52am
  - DeepBlue
    
    The discernible skill is they are representative of their communities, for The House of Representatives.
    
    Judith is already calling them a mob. It’s going to be hard to wrangle.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:30am
  - jon
    
    No discernable skills is what you get when chosen on diversity rather than merit!
    
    4 1
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    October 21, 2020 1:26pm
Tony Stuart

Former Labour Party MP and Minister Chris Carter made an “interesting” comment on Newstalk ZB on Monday. He stated that Christopher Luxon is a Christian (already public knowledge), and “do we want someone like that ruling over us?”.

Would this qualify as the kind of “hate speech” that Andrew Little will seek to ban during the next Parliament, or are Christians fair game, and will Little’s laws only apply to “other” religions?
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October 21, 2020 8:22am
- Swifty
  
  Wow.
  
  Really?
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:25am
- Chris Walden
  
  Would Mr Carter say that if for example someone of an Islamic disposition was appointed as a new MP?
  
  For the record, it shouldn’t matter what your religious beliefs are.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:28am
  - JackRabbit
    
    He is openly gay and Christianity conflicts with this. So he is probably a “straight” basher.
    
    Imagine if some complained about the LGBTQI brigade in parliament and said “do we want people like that ruling over us?” There would be Civil war in the media.
    
    Black is the new white. Pink is the new blue. Curved rainbows are now the new straight lines.
    
    Anyway, I’m off to go bite car tyres, as I identify as a Alsatian today.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Who’s representing the millipedes in Parliament?
      
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      October 21, 2020 9:39am
- kowtow
  
  And why haven’t the Media Party picked up that bit of “uninclusivity” and made play with it , as they would have had a straight white right male made such a “hateful” ,”loaded” , “Trumpian” comment ?
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:29am
- Colville
  
  Imagine if someone said “XXX is a fag…do we want someone like that ruling over us?”
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:30am
- Mike22240
  
  That will probably be the most entertaining part of Little’s laws the rest of it is concerning.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:31am
- redeye
  
  Now wouldn’t that be a wonderful irony. The first prosecuted under new free speech laws to be a Labour MP slagging of at Luxton for being christian.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:33am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    The man’s name is Luxon, FFS.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:57am
    - redeye
      
      It was a typo. FFS.
      
      7 3
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      October 21, 2020 9:04am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Don’t you read what you’ve written before hitting post comment?
        
        4 6
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        October 21, 2020 11:04am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Bit grumpy this morning, Captain.
        OK – I understand – an election happened.
        
        3 3
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        October 21, 2020 11:39am
      - Steve Todd
        
        No it wasn’t.
        
        Luxin would have been a typo. Luxton was ignorance.
        
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        October 21, 2020 4:33pm
- Tricati
  
  I also heard the Carter’s comment and thought what is it with these self-righteous opinionated left leaning pricks.
  Carter added nothing to NZ when he was an MP, yet pontificates as if he is the oracle on all issues, so just another loud mouth ex labour know all. The bigger question is, why do the MSM use him, but maybe I have answered that above.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:33am
  - crikey
    
    We do get it. The media use people like Carter to further the story they want to portray. Why else would they not ask Carter how his comment applies as much to his gayness or queerness or whatever the appropriate adjective is.
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:38am
- Yvette
  
  Tony, has former Labour Party MP and Minister Chris Carter not noted that Judith Collins also professes to be Christian, so why single out Luxton?
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:34am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    LUXON FFS.
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:58am
  - MCos
    
    There’s a big difference between Judith Collins’ Christianity, which nobody knew about until she organised that photo in the church & Mr Luxon’s hard line variety of Christian Evangelism that one hopes doesn’t colour his coming leadership of the National Party.
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:56am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Mr Luxon’s hard line variety of Christian Evangelism
      
      You’ve talked to Luxon and he has described his faith thus, or are you just repeating what the media has said and written?
      
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      October 21, 2020 10:15am
      - DeepBlue
        
        Didn’t they use that against Muller as well?
        
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        October 21, 2020 10:32am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        The 49-year-old Evangelical Christian had previously refused to talk about his views on abortion. But on Monday night he said he was personally against reform of abortion or euthanasia law.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/117151149/national-chooses-christopher-luxon-as-botany-mp
        To be fair ‘evangelical Christian’ can cover a wide spectrum of beliefs and behaviours, from spreading the gospel as Jesus would have wanted to fundamentalist nuttery.
        
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        October 21, 2020 10:34am
      - MCos
        
        As I said
        “one hopes (it) doesn’t colour his coming leadership of the National Party.”
        There’s been plenty of very religious party leaders in NZ. It shouldn’t impinge on their decisions. For example recrimilizing homosexuality because of church dogma.
        Abortion was banned until recently in Ireland because it was against the teachings of the Catholic Church, against the majority of the citizens.
        
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        October 21, 2020 4:47pm
    - Flossie
      
      Scott Morrison seems to be fully accepted in Australia. And he was filmed – with his permission – in full flight during a church service too.
      
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      October 21, 2020 10:30am
- Philview
  
  I have followed the current debate in Scotland on Hate Speech and have read that someone has employed lawyers to work on a case to censor or ban the Bible. I suspect Andrew Little will be working along similar lines to frame Hate Speech as a means to destroy the political influence of the Christian Rightwing in New Zealand.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:47am
  - kowtow
    
    Nasty wee people, those far left ethno nationalists.
    
    12 4
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    October 21, 2020 9:05am
  - crikey
    
    Of course they will be working even harder on the Koran.
    
    8 2
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    October 21, 2020 9:39am
    - Classic Liberal
      
      That they won’t. Bible evil. Koran ‘diverse’.
      
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      October 21, 2020 1:50pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  If we are still giving air time to utter losers like Chris Carter, I don’t think we have a future.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:19am
- Sacha
  
  Carter must be having cognition problems. Perhaps he doesn’t know that our ‘be kind’ society is adapted from Christian principles like the silly old Ten Commandments.
  Actually there are probably tens of thousands of New Zealanders who don’t know.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:20am
- Fletch
  
  Who’s show did he say that on?
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:26am
- Evadne
  
  I’m more worried by his belief that a PM’s role is “ruling over us”.
  
  Dictators, despots and (pre-modern) kings rule.
  Prime ministers lead a government which governs.
  In our constitutional democracy, Parliament is sovereign, not government, or prime ministers or the Queen.
  
  We can argue whether Carter is a bigot for his denegration of Christians (“hate speech” in the new vernacular), or an atheist utilising his right to free speech, but it merely detracts from the bigger problem we are facing: an increasing move towards authoritarianism.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:48am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Silly thing is, Carter used to tout that he was a Catholic in good standing…….Pfffft.
    
    5 1
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    October 21, 2020 11:43am
Bloody Dago

Nash and Mitch on ZB just now, Basher still banging on about how capable the Red Team is, splut….say what! 17 empty chairs again with Kelv as Deputy PM leading the charge….FFS
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October 21, 2020 8:25am
- Ronin
  
  “But what I WILL say is…”
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:03am
- JackRabbit
  
  Don’t blame them, its probably a result of a state education. They missed the “in” as in “incapable”.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:06am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Don’t forget Mark Mitchell is Traitor #2.
  
  3 8
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  October 21, 2020 9:19am
- Bob
  
  Closer to 60 empty heads, -oops meant chairs- now.
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:50am
Maggy Wassilieff

Might be time to buy a nice coastal property…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300137847/election-2020-the-biggest-thing-the-government-will-do-that-youve-never-heard-of
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October 21, 2020 8:30am
- Mike22240
  
  After the firearm buyback I would be worried about any other Govt buyback
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:34am
- JackRabbit
  
  “As sea levels rise, many of New Zealand’s coastal areas will become uninhabitable.”
  
  Sea levels are always rising, and have done since the end of the last ice age, at about 1.5mm annually.
  
  At this rate the Beehive will have water lapping at the steps in the year 50,050. But this will never happen since we are about to go into another ice age.
  
  Its a pity Al Gore and Obama, both Climate Change “believers”, don’t believe in sea level rise, coastal retreat, or minimal carbon footprints, both having oceanside mansions.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:48am
  - Unity
    
    “Sea levels are always rising, and have done since the end of the last ice age, at about 1.5mm annually.”
    
    Well I have lived next to the coast for all of my longish life and the sea level is the same as it’s always been. Of course during storms etc, things change and damage occurs but, as for the sea level rising as time passes, certainly nothing like this has occurred whatsoever from my observation.
    
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    October 21, 2020 12:04pm
- Ruahine
  
  Interesting Post Maggie.
  I have lived adjacent to the sea for the last 40 years.
  I still have not observed any sea level rise but I have witnessed ‘quite a bit’ of erosion at certain places around the country.
  Just wondering if there will be a mechanism that differentiates between the two. I feel that when push come to shove and a property owner wants to put a claim compensation for land loss there will be a lot of erosion and very little sea level rise.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:56am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Coastal erosion, and its accompanying partner Coastal accretion (where the shoreline builds out).
    
    Taught in high school geography since Adam was a cowboy.
    
    12 2
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    October 21, 2020 9:10am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Claiming coastal erosion as Climate Change is another variation on the Chicken Little story. Interpreting normal cyclic events as indicators of harbingers of doom.
      
      Which make you wonder about the mental age of those that go around proclaiming the sky is falling. If they cannot see past an illusion that even children of yesteryear could identify, are today’s generations dumber than those children?
      
      The New Zealand (and world) left leaning political scene is starting to shape up like the Star Trek episode “And the Children Shall Lead.”, in which children (and in our case the weak minded) are trapped in their own illusions.
      
      Whatever, it is certainly a good reason to drug test prospective MPs. But it is too late, the MPs now in power want to legalise the right and precedence to rule while under the influence. In “Trekkie” terms, some alien contagion has slipped onto the NZ “Enterprise” through the ‘transporters’ and now the bulk of the crew are infected and heading toward self destruction.
      
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      October 21, 2020 9:33am
    - Bob
      
      Don’t teach real world geography in school now.
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:52am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Fifty years ago the solution for fixing erosion in the high country was to aerial sow wilding pine seeds..
    Maybe the govt could try that – oversow weed species along the coast to keep the sea back.
    What could go wrong?
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:10am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Erosion is commonally equated with sea level rise. Fish that once created coral sands have been eaten preventing the future long term maintenance. Tarawa has been trampled into the sea from excessive breeding. Simple tidal erosion..
    
    5 3
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    October 21, 2020 9:48am
  - Unity
    
    Ruahine, I should have scrolled down because I’ve written more or less the same as you have. Good to know others have observed that the sea level has not risen.
    
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    October 21, 2020 12:06pm
    - Batman
      
      …yet.
      
      2 1
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      October 21, 2020 12:44pm
- cmm
  
  “as sea level rise”
  
  Climate change sea level rise: a few millimetres.
  Seismic uplift/fall: metres
  
  I know which I’m more worried about.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:10am
- Jimbob
  
  The climate change narrative is here to stay, until the “people” vote out the political clowns that advocate it. The best two things to invest in is copper and natural gas. They need natural gas to fill the void renewables leave and copper is for electric cars etc.
  The climate trend is for a cooler planet, the warming from 1980 has finished.
  Happy days.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:22am
Philview

The ODT today applauded the diversity of the Labour Government and had a dig at the National Party. I don’t care how diverse they are if they have the ability. I do point out that Labour’s top team Ardern, Robertson, Hipkins, Little, Woods and Twyford are noticeably “white”.

https://www.odt.co.nz/opinion/editorial/changing-face-parliament
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October 21, 2020 8:40am
- cmm
  
  “Ardern, Robertson, Hipkins, Little, Woods and Twyford ”
  
  Lots of diversity:
  Wimminz
  Gay
  Person Of Mass
  
  Personally I don’t want any diversity. All I care about is one thing:
  Person of Capability
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:58am
- sooty
  
  But they do have “Kelvin”.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:04am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    A ‘special’ person
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:16am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  and all from privileged middle-class backgrounds.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:46am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I don’t know if I’d describe Robertson’s background as “privileged middle-class”. Didn’t his father do time in jail for fraud?
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:18am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yes, his father was imprisoned… but it was a white-collar crime (accountant stealing from a law firm) and it didn’t stop Robertson from attending good schools and University.
      
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      October 21, 2020 10:38am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Just checked…. Robertson’s father was imprisoned in 1991… Robertson was born in 1971.
        
        So 20 years of middle-class privilege…
        
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        October 21, 2020 10:45am
I remember when

I just love the way that everybody knows why National lost. What National did wrong. What National should have done.
The truth is that the pundits have to show that they understand what happened and what they would have done.
Starting with the mosque response it was always Jacinda versus the rest.
Covid was just the cream and sugar coating. Those she was saving could overlook the fact that no other leader micro-managed daily details.
She isn’t just a Party leader, Prime Minister, Global Leader – she is a social media star, a global star.
The left, feminists, social media followers and the scared rallied to protect her image. They needed her. She was saving the lives of the elderly – their parents, grand parents, relatives, whanau.
Policy and arguments were unable to penetrate the ‘aura’. Different approaches were dangerous and to be silenced. “Conspiracy theories.”
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October 21, 2020 8:41am
- peterwn
  
  It is arguable whether National had any chance of victory in the wake of Covid 19 and the Labour Government’s response. Even if National had the ideal leader and played all of its cards right it was most probably doomed. National had to, for the sake of the Party and Democracy strive to win as many seats as possible in the circumstances. Judith did the best she could in the circumstances and succeeded in that there is a viable and active opposition party in Parliament.
  Various people including journos will say that there are all sorts of things National should have done this or that, I am not voting National because they did not tend to my pet corn, etc, etc forgetting that the Party cannot be all things to all people.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:05am
- hullkiwi
  
  Yes, Jacinda in her role with a social media persona is, but one of the many issues National must confront.
  
  Reflect on this.
  
  Labour went into this election, with no policy, and when they did produce some, it was immediately after Judith had beaten Ardern in a TV debate the night before.
  
  Further, can you remember a single proper policy Labour had other than the Maori holiday?
  
  The reasons for this:
  1. Jacinda is an intellectual lightweight when it comes to policy. In a debate she will lose. But she is a formidable politician in the mould of Tony Blair, who will appeal to the masses and will avoid broadcast journalists who make them look the fools they are. Jacinda refuses to go on Magic Talk, Blair refused to go on the Today Programme (BBC Radio4) and Newsnight (BBC2) for the same reason;
  2. Those who switched to Labour were not doing so because of policy, they did so because of the persona of Jacinda and the Covid PR we have been subjected to since March; and
  2. National lost the provinces, partly because of the Labour-Green axis, but there is more to it, like the collapse of the NZF vote (and in some instances the collapse of some Green vote eg Nelson).
  
  But yes, Jacinda is a formidable social media persona, who we all underestimated to our peril as a political operative.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:14am
  - Flossie
    
    I totally agree.
    National could never win that one.
    Let’s think about 2023 when at least a few of the newbie MPs will have blotted their copybooks – or worse. I’m including Labour, and Act. Greens will have become irrelevant (I hope!) just as NZ First has, and Jacinda has packed it in. Labour will then have to campaign on their record with no back-up pixiedust, and going by this past three years, it’s not going to amount to much at all.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:17am
  - Jimbob
    
    The end of the day, two thirds of the population are socialist. Quite frightening if you think about it.
    Most people you see on the street voted socialist.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:26am
    - Batman
      
      Oh piffle. They’re not bloody socialist.
      
      Bloody drama queens you lot.
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:14am
  - DeepBlue
    
    It was Jacinda’s videographer and one or two secretaries always by her side in her campaign van. That speaks volumes.
    
    Plus how Jacinda has perfected the mass grab victim’s phone, selphie, share … She gets 100’s of social media viral offshoots wherever she goes.
    
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    October 21, 2020 10:38am
    - Batman
      
      Just so you know… We used to send a photographer and press/social media person with PMs Key and English.
      
      Remember the days of John Key selfies?
      
      Don’t get too wound up about Ardern.
      
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      October 21, 2020 11:20am
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Who is “we”, white man?
        
        Tonto’s asking.
        
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        October 21, 2020 7:45pm
      - Batman
        
        People who actually were in politics rather than armchair generals.
        
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        October 21, 2020 11:16pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yep,
      at every school/kindy visit, 100s of clips of a smiling PM down among the common folk being sent wide and far…
      
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      October 21, 2020 12:01pm
  - Hollyfield
    
    Plus the saturated advertising in the last couple of weeks – every time I went onto the Herald website there was a huge red box around all the articles, with a bright yellow banner “vote early for Labour”. These ads reminded me of the sale ads for large stores like Noel Leeming – a buy now or miss out type of ad targeted at the impulse shopper. Plus every time I went into my local mall the electronic advertising screens all had photos of Jacinda with the yellow banner “vote early for Labour”. Those screens usually have a variety of ads in a cycle – but not in the last 2 weeks. Must have cost a fortune. I will be very interested to see the breakdown of advertising costs for each party.
    
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    October 21, 2020 11:03am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Hullkiwi – re “National lost the provinces” :
    National lost the Provinces because they stopped listening.
    
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    October 21, 2020 12:10pm
    - hullkiwi
      
      Yes, I know that. I spoke to a friend of mine who is well placed in National and we agreed about it. But deep Blue provinces have not gone red just for National losing touch, while in opposition.
      
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      October 21, 2020 2:25pm
- Sacha
  
  @ I remember when – also: the PM was perceived to have ‘done a good job’ and so earned the chance to carry on. After all, if we could be saved from the deadly pandemic what more could we ask for?
  So was given the reward and the failures of the past 3 years were ignored. It will be the job of the hoi polloi to figure out how to fix the resulting mess.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:32am
- Bob
  
  One day some journalist may be honest enough to write an article on how Adern manipulated the country for the last three years, and then used the Covid to cement in her Totalitarian regime; don’t need a caucus that way.
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:56am
- Paulus
  
  It is now a “Cult of Cindys”.
  
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  October 21, 2020 2:25pm
- MCos
  
  Regarding the mosque terrorist attacks & White Is. As I recall the Nats & Labour were still level pegging at the end of last year regardless of Bridges poor ratings.
  However.
  When Covid-19 struck National fell to pieces. Despite the public approving 80-90% of the measures taken, Simon Bridges was highly critical.
  I know there’s people on this forum, maybe a majority, who thought that Bridges was correct.
  The vast majority of voters thought otherwise and along with other missteps the Nats were on the slippery slope . . . .
  Sure Jacinda Ardern is an engaging leader, but so was John Key and the Nat people never grizzled about him.
  
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  October 21, 2020 5:57pm
plc

Scuttlebutt coming out of the beltway this morning is Robertson is moving from Finance to Foreign Affairs.

Interested in who they’d get to do Finance. Also Robertson’s motivations? Perhaps doesn’t want to be associated with deteriorating fiscal picture as potentially hinder future prospects.
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October 21, 2020 8:50am
- Batman
  
  Weird scuttlebutt.
  
  I heard it was Parker up for that.
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:57am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Perhaps Grunter (it’s a nickname for people called Grant) reads political history books he’ll find the obituary of one Gordon Brown.
    
    Given Cindy is following her idol’s footsteps perhaps Grunter has realised he doesn’t want to be left with the pieces at the end.
    
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    October 21, 2020 9:59am
- Billy Collins
  
  If your Finance Minister is leaving the position as a recession is about to set in, that aint a good sign.
  
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  October 21, 2020 9:30am
  - Bob
    
    Recession set in two years ago, it’s just going to get worse over the next three years.
    
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    October 21, 2020 11:59am
- hullkiwi
  
  If true, it would be Deborah Russell, which would be a massive promotion.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:07am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    You mean the moron that said all businesses that failed because of Labour’s inept Covid policy failed because they were bad at business?
    That will be fun.
    
    I still think it’ll be Parker. Also note, if it is Robertson, Parker will probably fit back into Finance.
    
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    October 21, 2020 11:27am
- DeepBlue
  
  Maybe like Winston he will become Foreign Affairs and Deputy PM. Makes sense as he won’t want to be facing bad Finance questions.
  
  Business will be hugely let down, as Robertson was seen as a fiscal handbrake.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:42am
lastmanstanding

The Case of Anne-Marie Brady. She is a professor at Canterbury and a world recognised expert on China. She has written papers critical of the CCP.

Her car has been sabotaged. Her house and office has been broken into a number of times and her laptop and papers stolen.

Plod say they cant find the perps.

She is now subject to two secret complaints via the Uni. Secret in that those complaining arent identified. They relate to so called errors in papers she has written. Overseas expert attest to the accuracy of her papers.

I say the Government and Canterbury are taking order from their master in Beijing to deplatform her.
We can expect much more of this future. I say our Government and the Unis are puppets of the CCP and will do anything and everything they are ordered to do.
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October 21, 2020 8:56am
- theoldbloke
  
  and not only that you do realise that the Chinese are stealing 4th and 14th floors in our hotels.!!
  
  Just pop in to one of their (Hotel) Elevators and try and go to the 4th ot 14th Floor!! They are not there…
  
  Ok OK so its a sop to Chinese as Fourth translates as Death in Mandarin
  
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  October 21, 2020 1:42pm
lastmanstanding

Just remember and keep repeating Hate Speech is what the Right say that the Left dont agree with.
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October 21, 2020 9:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Offend a queer, of dear. There’s not two the same and their infighting is vigorous. I suffer a”gender fluid” in the family. If Little thinks he can legislate against expression of non-consonant thoughts, words, opinions, ideas he may as well go and whistle at the sea and tell the tides to stop. This will be tyranny by Little.
  Why doesn’t Little concern himself with the abrogation of law evident at Ihumatao? Is he awaiting a private prosecution or legal action against the Police?
  Why have a Parliament when we have a Ihumatao?
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:00am
Catgurl13

Gosh Denise Lee saying she supported Judith yesterday while patting her on the back looked so fake. Why doesn’t Judith just fire those morons who undermined her?.
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October 21, 2020 9:25am
- Faroffsound
  
  She probably will eventually.
  
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  October 21, 2020 3:27pm
- MCos
  
  She can’t
  They can be expelled from the Party and theoretically by the Party from parliament, but the Nats are against that law, remember.
  
  Any attempt to chuck her out of the party for that email would be ludicrous, particularly when more details came out.
  
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  October 21, 2020 6:17pm
mark15

Of the 22 new Labour MPs elected,how many have had real jobs?
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October 21, 2020 9:26am
- sooty
  
  Or even a job.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:25am
Catgurl13

How on Earth is this even a race issue?….I don’t see it?.Even if she was told to lose weight, a doctor will advise anyone to do that. It’s nothing to do with race. The ferald is desperate for so called racial stories.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cancer-tragedy-waitemata-dhb-apologises-to-dying-mum-after-racial-bias-complaint/VVWEIZICKM7UH7DRIF524ZS2EA/
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October 21, 2020 9:32am
- Flossie
  
  I thought her main issue was that she didn’t believe they had treated her culturally appropriately, or words to that effect.
  Whatever that means.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:20am
  - Catgurl13
    
    She was the one refusing the treatment in the end too.
    
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    October 21, 2020 12:54pm
  - Jules99
    
    My nurse friend says that the only time she has witnessed actual people being treated culturally inappropriately has involved migrant workers who don’t understand the ‘special’ races.
    
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    October 21, 2020 1:01pm
- Close Hen Counters
  
  Couldn’t agree more – offered heaps of tests that didn’t detect cancer and suddenly the staff treating her are racist? And to top it off, incredibly woke DHBs apologise for not meeting her cultural needs – god help us!
  
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  October 21, 2020 2:38pm
Deagle

This morning I learned that supporting New Conservative because they have the most family-friendly policies makes me a divisive, far-right conspiracy theorist.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300138141/election-2020-why-voters-rejected-conspiracy-theorists
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October 21, 2020 9:34am
UrbanNeocolonialist

Pretty stark results from meta analysis of many many studies for positive benefits of hydroxychloroquine if used early after infection (or prophylactically), cuts deaths to between 1/3rd and 2/3rds https://hcqmeta.com/. probability of being wrong about this is now up above one 1 in 20 million.

That elements of the political-medical community continue to resist its use, maybe for orange man bad reasons, maybe because it is a cheap generic that doesn’t earn drug companies big profits, or maybe because of embarrassment over having to reverse policy, is simply scandalous.
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October 21, 2020 9:40am
- Critical Thinker
  
  143 HCQ studies
  85 peer reviewed
  
  Early treatment of COVID-19 with HCQ shows high efficacy ?
  
  100% of early treatment studies are positive. 64% is the median improvement.
  
  Early treatment
  ↓64%
  
  Late treatment
  ↓24%
  
  63% of late treatment studies are positive.
  
  Over 530,000 people would most likely have been saved so far if HCQ had been allowed to be used ?
  
  https://c19study.com/
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:25am
  - Ed Snack
    
    And Remdesvir, much touted as a treatment (especially because Trump did NOT suggest it) has been shown to be essentially worthless. No doubt much to the disappointment of Dr Fauci in the USA who specifically widely touted this as a treatment.
    
    CT is correct though, a meta analysis of studies on HCQ show that it has a positive impact if administered early, and although not a cure as such it does reduce the severity of symptoms and reduces the chance of the infection progressing to require hospitalisation.
    
    So why do the low information commentaries like Mikey and Batman find this so hard to accept ? Trump’s initial comment about HCQ wasn’t uninformed, he had been briefed on what had been done during the SARS outbreak some years earlier, and one promising treatment identified back then was using HCQ as a prophylactic treatment. It appeared to work against SARS but was not fully tested as the SARS epidemic died down before such a study could be planned and completed.
    
    This bias against HCQ is a purely political response, and one that has cost tens of thousands of lives. So in the interest of “owning” Trump, Mikey and Batman seem happy to have all those deaths occur, which I’m sure is something that troubles them not at all.
    
    But maybe it should.
    
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    October 21, 2020 3:15pm
    - Batman
      
      Until the mainstream medical community comes out and says HCQ is an effective treatment for more than a few specific cases, you gets deserve all the derision you get for pushing phony miracle cures.
      
      Until then, I’ll take the ‘evidence’ pulled together by HCQ pushers online with a fair few grains of salt.
      
      But nice personal digs, given you lot have been advocating for spreading a deadly virus by being against masks and social distancing, advocating for the failed Swedish approach, and undermining the advice of the actual experts in this field.
      
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      October 21, 2020 4:37pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Well, CT offers some findings, and they’re not hard to find. The Ford Foundation is one I’ve read, do you need help finding the actual study online ?
        
        But like I said, it wasn’t some new thing, nor a Trumpian sort of off the wall thought. HCQ was trialled with SARS and it appeared then to give positive assistance in ameliorating symptoms; plus its anti-viral properties in general have been studied. As I mentioned SARS was effectively over before any proper study could be mounted. So people did try and did get apparent results, and then people like the Ford Foundation did controlled trials and found that it did work as described – it isn’t a cure but it does ameliorate symptoms and reduce hospitalisation. Plus it is dirt cheap. Why can’t people like you just get over yourself and admit that if it helps, is as close to free as it comes in medicine, why not use it. It has well known side effects so cannot be used for everyone, but it can for most.
        
        And another similar treatment is Vitamin D, studies again strongly suggest a protective effect along the lines that those deficient in D have more severe symptoms. Again, dirt cheap, and why not.
        
        And masks, studies on the effectiveness of masks have been around for 10-20 years and more. Bottom line, they are effectively useless unless they meet standards like N95, so cloth masks are pointless. Many studies actually show a negative effect, thought to be because untrained users will frequently touch and adjust the masks, plus they wear them too long in general. Even in surgical settings, masks have been shown to have limited effectiveness, and those are trained users, inside, close to others, and change masks at intervals. So why push what is effectively a social control method with no practical impact. Do you get off on fear porn or something ?
        
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        October 21, 2020 6:54pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  You guys. *chortles*
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:49am
- alloytoo
  
  Frankly the resistance to this safe cheap medication in the face of of a global pandemic is criminal.
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:56am
  - FatTony
    
    And remember, bleach. Drinking bleach is the real miracle cure.
    
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    October 21, 2020 12:58pm
    - Classic Liberal
      
      Nobody ever suggested that. If you’re too stupid to look up the video of what trump actually said, you’re too stupid to vote.
      
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      October 21, 2020 2:20pm
      - Batman
        
        Even worse, Trump suggested that an injection of disinfectant would cure people.
        
        Which is arguably more artfully dumb than just drinking bleach like a basic bitch.
        
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        October 21, 2020 2:28pm
      - FatTony
        
        “And then I see the disinfectant where it knocks it out in a minute. One minute. And is there a way we can do something like that, by injection inside or almost a cleaning?”
        
        You’re right, what he actually said isn’t stupid at all! ??
        
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        October 21, 2020 3:32pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Nope, he didn’t say that either. You’re too TDS damaged to actually listen.
        
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        October 21, 2020 3:33pm
      - Batman
        
        I heard and watched the video. Would you like the direct quote? It’s easy for you to find.
        
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        October 21, 2020 4:58pm
      - FatTony
        
        Classic, That’s the direct quote. The problem you have is that everyone has seen the video, so we know you’re lying. It’s not hard to find.
        
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        October 21, 2020 5:25pm
- Jules99
  
  Is pharmac still banning the use of HCQ for Covid? I think there are questions to ask there.
  
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  October 21, 2020 1:03pm
Critical Thinker

Documents show Hunter Biden’s signature on receipt for repair of laptops left at Delaware store at center of email scandal – while other paperwork reveals FBI’s contact with owner ?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8857893/Documents-Hunter-Bidens-signature-Delaware-computer-repair-shop-receipt.html

This Russian disinformation campaign is really impressive.

So the Russian agent hacks photos of Hunter Biden doing crack, goes to Delaware to drop off a fake laptop, signs a receipt, forges a federal grand jury subpoena, then waits for the store owner to send it to Giuliani.

Masterful ?

John Ratcliffe – U.S. Director of National Intelligence, asked directly whether accusations leveled against the Bidens in recent days are part of a Russian disinformation effort:

“Let me be clear. The intelligence community doesn’t believe that because there is NO intelligence that supports that. We have shared no intelligence with any member of Congress that Hunter Biden’s laptop is part of some Russian disinformation campaign. It’s simply NOT true.”

Joe Biden: “I have no knowledge of my son’s overseas business dealings.”

Also Joe Biden: “I’m going underground for several days to help lessen the appearance of impropriety.” ?
https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1318537680926494720

Never before have the media been so openly fearful of asking or reporting something that might hurt a presidential candidate. What are supposed to be the animating values of our adversarial press — informing the public, getting answers, holding the powerful to account — have all been subordinated to the protection racket that is coverage of Joe Biden.

This tendency toward “anti-reporting” has long characterized Biden coverage. The media have deployed their bomb-disposal units for fear that a potentially explosive story might detonate ?
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/10/the-biden-protection-racket/

Reconcile ☝️
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October 21, 2020 9:51am
- Gravelroad
  
  Aaaannnnnd Batman – with head under wing.
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:11am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Pop! Pop! Pop! is the sound of the heads exploding when the ignorant Biden shills read this from Steve Bannon ????
  
  ‘The Biden’s are about to be hit with MULTIPLE stories from media sources based off evidence BEYOND the hard drive… We already have set in motion the various apparatuses that will release EVERYTHING.
  What we are bringing forth is going to shock and disgust people’
  
  #thebestisyettocome
  
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  October 21, 2020 11:47am
  - Batman
    
    You dumbarses still think anyone is listening to drunken Rudi and federally charged Steve?
    
    Even Trump’s own campaign staff are backing away from this dumpster fire of a failed scandal.
    
    All it has managed to do is further the narrative that the campaign is flailing and losing.
    
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    October 21, 2020 12:20pm
    - RJ
      
      Any mod other than this one is it really acceptable for a mod to start a conversation calling someone a dumbarse, any other mod would of deleted that from the comment and warned the person posting it.
      
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      October 21, 2020 12:58pm
      - Batman
        
        Dumbarse does not rise to the level of being reprimanded.
        
        We do have a very broad tolerance here on this blog. Unless you’d like to go full safe space like a university union common room?
        
        And I haven’t even touched on the nature of the topic, whereby the flimsiest allegations are hyped as solid fact. It deserves worse than dumbarse, frankly.
        
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        October 21, 2020 2:32pm
      - RJ
        
        No I just think a moderator that has a history of flaming people then warning them when they reply to that flaming needs to grow up and act like a moderator instead of how you are acting.
        
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        October 21, 2020 2:38pm
      - Batman
        
        Given the nature of the people involved, they should be able to take a bit of light ribbing.
        
        It’s not like I’m calling them sick and evil people who wish to destroy the western world… As has been thrown about by some of the MAGA clan.
        
        And frankly, after CT seemed to allude that I should be nervous for some reason, I am in no mind to be the silent type.
        
        And besides, any comment I post is entirely separate from approving 99.5% of comments that get submitted. Anything targeting me which I think is beyond the rules, I pass on to the other moderators to deal with as a conflict of interest matter.
        
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        October 21, 2020 4:49pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Sadly for the dumbarse Batman, the FBI and the DNI have confirmed that the emails are legitimate, come from a laptop that was owned by Hunter Biden, and that a Grand Jury is looking at the contents. Also confirmed that this has no known Russian involvement.
        
        Genuine emails, showing a web of corruption with Hunter as (one of) his father’s bagmen.
        
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        October 21, 2020 3:20pm
      - Batman
        
        They can confirm whatever they like, anything coming from the political hack Ratcliffe is hardly a trusted source.
        
        Like all of the false dawns for you chaps, the FBI will inevitably find nothing.
        
        I see one poll now has Trump down by 15… Ouch.
        
        3 8
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        October 21, 2020 4:55pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Batman gets a free pass for his DBS. It’s not his fault, he’s a victim.
        
        1 0
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        October 21, 2020 8:21pm
      - Batman
        
        What even is this twee little DBS thing you’ve made up?
        
        Because if it involves getting a free Aston Martin DBS then I am fully on board with this ?
        
        0 2
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        October 21, 2020 11:14pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      DBS. A sad diagnosis to suffer from. Bless you.
      
      7 3
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      October 21, 2020 1:54pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  BREAKING:
  
  – FBI & DOJ concur with DNI John Ratcliffe, that Hunter Biden emails not part of a Russian disinformation campaign.
  
  – FBI has possession of Hunter Biden’s laptop.
  
  – Federal Law Enforcement Official says that the emails are authentic. And that the laptop may have not been looked at right away when it was received.
  
  – So far, neither the Biden campaign nor Hunter Biden has denied any other element of the emails story ?
  https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/fbi-and-doj-do-not-believe-hunter-biden-laptop-part-of-russian-disinformation-campaign
  
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  October 21, 2020 12:09pm
  - Raphael
    
    you left out the bit where Hunter’s lawyer asked if they could have the laptop back …. basically confirming that it was Hunter’s laptop
    
    3 1
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    October 21, 2020 7:22pm
- FatTony
  
  LOL – every day that Trump talks about the Hunter conspiracy theory instead of talking about the economy is a win for Team Biden.
  
  So please, keep it up ?
  
  6 13
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  October 21, 2020 12:28pm
- virtualmark
  
  “So the Russian agent hacks photos of Hunter Biden doing crack, goes to Delaware to drop off a fake laptop, signs a receipt, forges a federal grand jury subpoena, then waits for the store owner to send it to Giuliani.”
  
  Yes.
  
  Except for the federal grand jury bit. The FBI and the grand jury they’ve empanelled are investigating *Rudy* not Hunter. Yesterday the FBI indicted 6 GRU officers for hacking, using their full names and details of their exact actions. They’ve already indicted Parnas & Fruman & Bannon. You think they’re not watching the GRU hand off disinformation to Rudy and prepping their indictment for him?
  
  And except that Rudy approached the computer store owner. Listen to the interviews with the computer store guy, he talks about Rudy and then seems to realise he’s made a mistake. Also … that guy is not mentally well.
  
  6 2
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  October 21, 2020 12:45pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Ah, not as such. Confirmed that no known Russian involvement. FBI took possession of the laptop using a GJ subpoena in January 2020, long before Giuliani had any involvement.
    
    So keep up the lies VM, I’m sure they are comforting, but lies they are.
    
    5 2
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    October 21, 2020 3:22pm
    - virtualmark
      
      Ed, I’ll repeat … Rudy is the target of the FBI’s investigation, not Hunter, and they’ve been looking at Rudy since at least early 2019 …
      
      “relate to the ongoing investigation around Rudy Giuliani that has been recently reported. The FBI is investigating the provenance of the emails and whether it is part of a foreign disinformation operation – which the FBI would investigate whether or not the emails are real or not. The FBI’s handling of John Paul Mac Isaac indicates he is a target of the investigation, rather than a witness.
      
      Regarding the FBI’s statement that they have “nothing to add” to Ratcliffe’s statement: They understand this to mean the FBI has nothing to add about *available actionable intelligence* at this time, but the investigation is ongoing – not understanding it as affirming Ratcliffe”
      
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      October 22, 2020 9:06am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Here are the reasons why Twitter censored the NY Post article about Hunter Biden’s computer. All the emails, texts, and photos that incriminate Joe Biden deserve to be censored. Here’s why, directly from Twitter ?
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrjI2X9TIZA
  
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  October 21, 2020 1:19pm
Raphael

The Herald has a sad article up about a mum dying of cancer because multiple imaging tests failed to pick up the cancer. She is blaming the racism in the system.

And I am sorry, I feel for the poor lady dealing with cancer, but I know enough people from all different races who can tell the same story about a DHB missing/diagnosing cancer too late for treatment. It’s got nothing to do with racism.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cancer-tragedy-waitemata-dhb-apologises-to-dying-mum-after-racial-bias-complaint/VVWEIZICKM7UH7DRIF524ZS2EA/
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October 21, 2020 9:56am
- Deagle
  
  What do they imagine is happening? That a pathologist is sitting there flicking through imaging test data just to find people with the right skin colour?
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  She declined chemo and post operative radiation therapy. Those are vital mop-up processes in cancer. By their very nature cancers spread and these procedures while not pleasant are frequently effective in stopping a new wannabe cancer from bedding down.
  
  My late wife missed timely diagnosis for a bowel cancer because a GP fell into a classic trap and wrote her off as female and just anaemic. With Christmas holidays preventing other timely investigations that determined the outcome.
  
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  October 21, 2020 10:15am
  - Batman
    
    Sorry to hear that Kev, what an awful situation.
    
    7 1
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    October 21, 2020 1:00pm
  - Jules99
    
    My aunt had a similar experience. She delayed getting a second opinion because she didn’t want to offend her GP. Her husband forced the issue in the end.
    
    5 0
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    October 21, 2020 1:06pm
- kowtow
  
  Race is the new black , as long as it’s not white .
  
  Police say they have it, medicos say they have it , our statues have it , the name of the country has it……
  
  The Media Pardy: every adverse weather event is climate change . Shark attcks in Oz , climate change etc
  Now every adverse any thing is racism.
  
  It will only get worse.
  
  13 2
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  October 21, 2020 11:34am
Captain Mainwaring

The reason why National almost won in 2005 after the disaster in 2002 was because Brash put a peg in the ground over race-based privilege.
Collins needs to do something similar if National is to have any hope in 2023.
23 5
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October 21, 2020 9:57am
- Frank the tank
  
  Similar but not the same. If regards to race relations the dial has moved too far for a similar tactic to work. One of the reasons the kids go to single sex catholic schools at least a semblance of balance on race relations.
  
  First things first get the ship in order, stop the leaking and at least present a united front (i.e. look competent).
  
  There will be issues that present themselves – some known (economy, plan B for covid) some unknown. Be in a position to take advantage of these.
  
  It’s actually not that hard but will require some egos to be left at the door for the betterment of the party.
  
  10 1
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  October 21, 2020 10:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yeah, I can’t see Collins coming out against white privilege.
  
  2 21
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  October 21, 2020 10:37am
- DeepBlue
  
  2005 was a different country. Picking that peg will not be easy.
  
  7 1
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  October 21, 2020 10:44am
Albert_Ross

Mods/DPF: call off the “Least Surprising News of the Day” competition, because I’ve already won it

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/cycleways-to-wellingtons-eastern-suburbs-come-in-over-budget/UM5SYER7IOSRX5EVSW5D3BD2CU/
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October 21, 2020 10:22am
- Batman
  
  Very on-brand for WCC huh?
  
  6 0
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  October 21, 2020 11:15am
- plc
  
  “Mayor Andy Foster agreed they were excellent projects and was impressed at the level of detail involved – like built-up steps at Point Jerningham to dissauade penguins from hopping up near the road”
  
  1 0
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  October 21, 2020 11:41am
  - mandk
    
    Smart penguins don’t hop onto the road.
    
    I lived in Eastbourne for 8 years, and drove round the bays almost daily, and I never saw a live penguin on the road.
    
    Yet, a good number of penguins made their way a fair distance into the bush behind the road. A friend had penguins under his house, and this was about 200m from the shore and about 30m higher.
    
    The ones that did this had learned to access the bush via storm drains, whereas the ones that tried to cross the road were eventually squashed out of existence.
    
    9 1
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    October 21, 2020 12:03pm
- zulumonster
  
  There are some real zingers in that article … but this one is a cracker, “Mayor Andy Foster agreed they were excellent projects and was impressed at the level of detail involved – like built-up steps at Point Jerningham to dissauade penguins from hopping up near the road.”
  
  How many penguins were saved by this? I have never heard of penguins being killed by cars at Pt Jerningham and have never even seen a penguin there. I admit I only go around there twice a day, 5 times a week …
  
  7 1
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  October 21, 2020 12:35pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lmy7qJNlbY

Harris-Biden Campaign Slightly Concerned.

Megagamer2531 hour ago
“Roses are red, Kamala ain’t black, Biden is hidin’ while Hunter’s on crack.
The Biden campaign is sub-optimal. KHs recent California event was
a train wreck. She doesn’t come across well. Then, there’s the elephant in the room;
Hunters laptop, and its contents. And, their elephant gun only fires blanks.
14 3
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October 21, 2020 11:14am
- Batman
  
  You sound nervous.
  
  4 19
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  October 21, 2020 11:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s still full on for the Butt Hunters,
    
    3 15
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    October 21, 2020 11:45am
    - Batman
      
      It is going to be fun watching them scream and cry when the fantasy turns sour
      
      4 16
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      October 21, 2020 12:21pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Why?
        
        Don’t you have a life?
        
        4 2
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        October 21, 2020 3:18pm
      - Batman
        
        I have many hobbies. One of which is eating popcorn while MAGAworld begins its slow descent into madness ?
        
        2 7
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        October 21, 2020 4:53pm
      - Tall Man
        
        So you don’t have a life……..
        
        6 2
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        October 21, 2020 5:55pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=woGyMvqLV5o

DNI Says Laptop Genuine.

Schiff says its Russian disinformation. The DNI has shared
Information with politicians to show that it’s genuine. The
Dems are running interference. Biden is hiding. The Obama
Administration had raised concerns about Hunter Bidens
foreign links.
13 3
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October 21, 2020 11:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The DNI is a Trumpian hack.
  
  3 20
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  October 21, 2020 11:45am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Yet you’d believe Clapper or Brennan, now that is funny !
    
    4 2
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    October 21, 2020 3:28pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Oh, no way. Remember how both Clapper and Brennan had their nominations withdrawn for lying about their achievements?
      
      1 3
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      October 21, 2020 5:06pm
rangitoto

Now that Winnie is gone from Parliament, is the Kermadec sanctuary back on the agenda, or do labour favour uncontrolled pillaging of the seas?
16 1
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October 21, 2020 11:33am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ah, you greenies…
  
  3 8
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  October 21, 2020 11:47am
  - rangitoto
    
    We’re environmentalists, not commies.
    
    9 3
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    October 21, 2020 12:36pm
    - mandk
      
      Anyone who supports the Greens is deluding themselves, if they think the party is environmentalist.
      
      The Greens made it clear that they are fundamentally socialist, and only nominally environmentalist, when they declare they would only work with Labour.
      
      If the party had gone cross-bench or confidence and supply with National in 2017, we would have had a Kermadec sanctuary and cameras on fishing boats by now.
      
      And, who knows, there might have been a bit of money for the green school in Taranaki.
      
      13 2
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      October 21, 2020 1:24pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Is the green school like a charter school?
        
        Asking for a friend…….
        
        4 2
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        October 21, 2020 3:17pm
      - Bob
        
        The last two true conservationists resigned some two or more years ago
        
        5 1
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        October 21, 2020 4:33pm
Suze Wainwright

I think one of my biggest hopes for our brand new diversely inclusive Parliament, is that we witness once and for all how white feminism betrays women of colour…
15 3
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October 21, 2020 11:37am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  I see wops! Wops everywhere!!!!
  
  Women of Pallor. Why – what were you thinking?
  
  6 1
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  October 21, 2020 1:56pm
sooty

Parliamentary services don’t forget to go and pickup Whinestones car! You failed last time!
Should keep a a spare key for every Parliamentary car, just in case!
11 1
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October 21, 2020 12:27pm
BeaB

Judith needs some expert media training to get rid of her annoying mannerisms like that silly laugh and flippant tone.
She comes over much better when she sounds experienced, informed and serious.
At the moment she comes across like your smartarse auntie. Less exaggerated language would help with her credibility too, as saying everything’s fine doesn’t wash when we know, because Tova tells us, that the leaker(s) are still active.
I don’t think she lacks brains but she does lack gravitas and authenticity.
And those dreadful clothes! Dump the frumpy scarves and smarten up.
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October 21, 2020 12:32pm
- RJ
  
  That’s your view of how she comes across, I have no problem with how she speaks or interacts with the media and I’d prefer that she remains being who she is
  
  11 2
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  October 21, 2020 12:55pm
  - lifesgood
    
    On the button, RJ. Judith speaks well with good diction and is knowledgeable and articulate. What is wrong with people? Do they think someone who smiles inanely, waves her hands around is bereft of knowledge and has extremely poor diction is preferable? How low have we sunk.
    
    2 0
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    October 21, 2020 6:25pm
- Catgurl13
  
  Yes she does seem a bit sarcastic when she laughs,but really who can blame her when the media prop up Jacinda and put the screws on Judith.
  
  9 1
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  October 21, 2020 1:36pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  If we haven’t learned that image sells, what have we learned? No party leader can be 100% themselves. They’re selling a brand.
  
  2 2
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  October 21, 2020 2:33pm
- Bob
  
  Judith is very genuine and believable, she has credibility; not qualities That I can see with Adern
  
  3 0
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  October 21, 2020 4:31pm
I remember when

The NZ MOH stats as at 20 Oct for Managed Isolation Covid-19 since 17 June.
Total Cases 184
Recovered 152
Active 32
Deaths 0
2 0
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October 21, 2020 12:55pm
Batman

How are you feeling, Trumpers? Hopefully not too down just yet…

Breaking: New NYT Trump taxes report.

Trump’s tax records show that Trump maintains a previously unknown bank account in China. The foreign accounts do not show up on Trump’s public financial disclosures because they are held under corporate names.

https://t.co/kU18ggxrDs
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October 21, 2020 1:07pm
- emmess
  
  HACKING
  QUICK, WE MUST BAN ALL FREE SPEECH
  
  10 1
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  October 21, 2020 1:16pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Also news: This hasn’t actually been verified by anyone so Twitter and Facebook have pre-banned it.
  Oh wait.
  
  8 1
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  October 21, 2020 1:26pm
- rangitoto
  
  The dims are sure getting desperate with their fake news.
  
  7 1
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  October 21, 2020 1:29pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  – China is one of only three foreign nations – the others are Britain and Ireland – where Mr. Trump maintains a bank account.
  
  – The foreign accounts do not show up on Mr. Trump’s public financial disclosures, where he must list personal assets, because they are held under corporate names. The identities of the financial institutions are not clear.
  
  It goes on:
  
  – In response to questions from The Times, Alan Garten, a lawyer for the Trump Organization, said the company had “opened an account with a Chinese bank having offices in the United States in order to pay the local taxes” associated with efforts to do business there. He said the company had opened the account after establishing an office in China “to explore the potential for hotel deals in Asia.”
  
  Seems reasonable ??
  https://www.forexlive.com/news/!/new-york-times-report-on-trump-holding-an-account-at-a-chinese-bank-20201020
  
  9 1
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  October 21, 2020 1:39pm
- RJ
  
  Of course trumps tax records don’t show this, the businesses tax records show it. Never done businesses in China have you.
  
  Regardless of the type of business entity you plan on establishing in China, you are going to require a legitimate business account once you’ve gone through the process of establishing a WFOE in China. This is where the expertise of Business China comes in. Having a corporate bank account is mandatory for all business entities that are operating within China, and also makes it easier for foreign companies to keep track of their business flow while in China.
  
  https://www.set-up-company.com/available-services/china-incorporation-bank-account-opening/
  
  8 3
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  October 21, 2020 1:39pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Concern Trolls gotta troll concernedly, noted.
  
  9 1
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  October 21, 2020 1:57pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Look, LOOK, a squirrel !
  
  Don’t look at Joe’s decades long corrupt behaviour, look Trump has a Chinese bank account !!!!!
  
  The Dems are getting desperate, how long before the next “anonymous sources say” frantic release that Trump has done something really awful gets used ?
  
  7 2
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  October 21, 2020 3:32pm
  - Batman
    
    It’s not a squirrel, just another enjoyable example of projection.
    
    Meanwhile, Trump could clear this up by releasing his financials. Bet he won’t…
    
    There’s never been any evidence of Joe Biden being corrupt. He’s bloody boring, in fact. Made $8m from book sales and that’s about it.
    
    3 8
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    October 21, 2020 5:01pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      But, but, Ed says there has been ‘decades long corrupt behaviour’. Examples from each decade soon…
      
      2 5
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      October 21, 2020 5:08pm
      - Batman
        
        Given they’ve now dived head first into the paedophilia allegations, proof is probably unnecessary at this point.
        
        5 3
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        October 21, 2020 5:12pm
Catgurl13

So we have all these new infections sudden here?. This govt knew about them all as they would have needed permission prior to entering our waters and airports. All kept very quiet right before the election. Very devious.
9 3
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October 21, 2020 1:38pm
- rangitoto
  
  This is going to go on and on, with it being difficult to stop cases leaking in to the community. What’s the plan to get out of this situation. It’s not a new realisation, the question was being asked months ago but the government swept it under the carpet.
  
  6 1
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  October 21, 2020 2:08pm
- kowtow
  
  The other elephant in the room is : why do we need Rusky/Ukrainians to fish here .
  
  The Crown gave a huge quota to the Maoris so that young Maoris could get good jobs fishing , what’s happened ?
  
  Why aren’t the Media onto this ?
  
  12 2
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  October 21, 2020 2:13pm
  - rangitoto
    
    I’m sure the Ngai Tahu leaders will explain this for you.
    
    6 1
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    October 21, 2020 2:42pm
  - Bob
    
    $50 million to not notice this and report factually.
    
    5 2
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    October 21, 2020 4:28pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    The couch is more comfortable than the net-deck or the filleting room. Can’t expect the nephs to break a sweat or get sick from anything else than RTDs, eh.
    
    1 0
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    October 21, 2020 8:24pm
- Bob
  
  Totalitarian information control!
  
  3 2
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  October 21, 2020 4:29pm
Critical Thinker

BREAKING:
Giuliani Gives Hunter Biden’s Hard Drive to Delaware State Police Over Photos of Underage Girls, Inappropriate Texts

Giuliani confirmed that there are photos of minors on the hard drive during an appearance on Greg Kelly’s show on Newsmax on Tuesday evening.

Giuliani said that Biden, according texts sent to his sister in law, on numerous occasions face timed a 14 year old girl while naked and on crack cocaine ?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coFx3ZDXWrg

The FBI has reportedly had the contents of the hard drive since 2019, but has failed to act upon it ?
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/breaking-giuliani-turns-hunter-bidens-hard-drive-delaware-state-police-photos-underage-girls-inappropriate-texts
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October 21, 2020 1:49pm
- RJ
  
  There was a good comment the other day I read that basically said trump made a locker room comment and the world went apeshit, protests, etc, those same people who protested that are quiet or defending hunter sexually abusing children.
  
  11 3
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  October 21, 2020 2:10pm
  - Batman
    
    The claim that Hunter Biden has abused children is sick, and completely unfounded.
    
    The defamation case would be quite brief…
    
    4 19
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    October 21, 2020 2:29pm
    - RJ
      
      Actually not unfounded, coming from those who have seen copies of hard drive. Sick is people defend and cover up such abuse as we saw with Epstein for so long and now with this.
      
      7 3
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      October 21, 2020 2:35pm
      - Batman
        
        Who are those people? Rudi? Steve B?
        
        None reliable or outside of Trumpland.
        
        2 7
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        October 21, 2020 4:51pm
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Very brief indeed ?
      https://youtu.be/coFx3ZDXWrg?t=312
      
      3 2
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      October 21, 2020 2:37pm
    - Gravelroad
      
      Genuine question Batman, from someone who doesn’t really follow US politics closely:
      You say categorically that the claim that Hunter Biden has abused children is “completely unfounded.”
      How do you know this?
      
      12 2
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      October 21, 2020 3:31pm
      - RJ
        
        3 hard drives handed over by a Chinese whistleblower to the doj of images and videos of him sexually abusing underage Chinese girls. People still try to defend this scum
        
        7 3
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        October 21, 2020 4:52pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I see a reply from Batman to RJ, but I do not see a reply from Batman to your question. I too would like to know how Batman knows it is unfounded. Or is that just an opinion, like Mike and his opinions. Mike is not forthcoming with facts either
        
        6 3
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        October 21, 2020 5:23pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I would not say that claim was ‘unfounded’ but that there is no reliable evidence to support it.
        
        1 2
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        October 21, 2020 6:45pm
    - RJ
      
      This is the kind of person that some people try to protect, the media should hang their heads in shame and disgust in themselves.
      
      https://twitter.com/newsmax/status/1318699372985679880
      
      5 3
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      October 21, 2020 4:49pm
      - Batman
        
        That’s not evidence. That’s a tweet from a right wing news organisation which cites Rudi Giuliani as its only source.
        
        Come on, that’s weak!
        
        3 10
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        October 21, 2020 5:05pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      If “completely unfounded” then why is the agent tasked with the Hunter Biden investigation, an agent known to be specifically assigned to pedophilia investigations?
      
      0 0
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      October 21, 2020 8:26pm
      - Batman
        
        Is he though? Is that confirmed by the FBI or just “sources” and claims by conservative media?
        
        0 0
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        October 21, 2020 11:13pm
- FatTony
  
  Nothing else has worked against Biden, so now your last throw of the dice is to call his son a paedophile.
  
  Ughh….what is wrong with you.
  
  1 8
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  October 21, 2020 3:38pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    ‘..the FBI agent who subpoenaed Hunter’s laptop – Joshua Wilson – specialized in investigating child pornography.. In the past, Wilson has been described by the Star-Ledger as “an FBI agent based in New Jersey who has spent nearly five years working full time on child pornography”.’
    
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    October 21, 2020 8:27pm
- Vory v zakone
  
  Meanwhile Ghislaine Maxwell’s testimony is to be released Thursday UST. She will throw Slick Willy under the bus for a plea deal. And when Crooked Hillary’s emails finally reaches the courts, the Clintons will be toast.
  Biden J is DEFINITELY toast ????
  POP! POP! POP!
  
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  October 21, 2020 8:24pm
  - Batman
    
    But her emails!
    
    0 0
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    October 21, 2020 11:12pm
I remember when

Much as Jacinda hates to be compared with Trump to similarities are numerous.
Both dominate the news and their Political Party.
Both have worldwide recognition.
Both represent the new ‘bigger than politics’ personality cult.
Both are prepared to fight for their people: Jacinda the disadvantaged and the older, vulnerable covid population and Trump the “red-neck” largely despised southern whites.
To a degree people vote for Jacinda and what she represents as much (or more) than Labour.
Trump represents the ‘people versus the politicians’ voter (at least in their minds.)
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October 21, 2020 2:07pm
kowtow

Our media are now full of stories about an alleged gang of Wellington muso type sex attackers .

Interesting .

Reading between the lines industry insiders must have known this shit was going on , what did they do about it and more to the point why didn’t they ?

Purely rhetorical .
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October 21, 2020 2:21pm
- Batman
  
  It seems it wasn’t known to them and has been revealed by women sharing stories via Instagram, and a few female Wellington influencers.
  
  It seems like it was fairly hidden from the music and hospo scene.
  
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  October 21, 2020 2:26pm
  - kowtow
    
    From RNZ
    
    ‘A Wellington man – who is also musician – said that late one night earlier this year he chanced upon what he now believes to be two of the alleged attackers in central Wellington.’
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/428822/wellington-music-scene-sexual-assault-allegations-man-believes-he-prevented-attack
    
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    October 21, 2020 2:47pm
    - Batman
      
      Yes that musician chanced upon it.
      
      So didn’t know about it.
      
      Thanks for the confirmation.
      
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      October 21, 2020 4:44pm
      - kowtow
        
        After he chanced upon it , he knew about it. Tell me that he didn’t talk to his mates about it . People knew.
        
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        October 21, 2020 5:00pm
      - Batman
        
        This is quite a short timeframe. He told people and it spread vis social media and now we’re here.
        
        Why are you so convinced there was some sort of cover up?
        
        Not everything is a conspiracy.
        
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        October 21, 2020 5:03pm
surfing

Interest rates are almost as close to 0 as they will get.

I wonder if this will finally cap house price increases.

It is odious what is happening to house prices in NZ. Even though I have personally gained almost 2 million on the value of my house in the last 3 years, I fear for my children’s ability to buy in future. Also, the money cannot be realised unless I move to Gore!

Also, my rates are now around 10k per year, probably going to 11k next year. Ridiculous as back in 2010 I was paying 3k.
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October 21, 2020 4:30pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Rates going up like that means you need to elect some different councilors to run your town!
  
  The costs to provide council services do not go up proportionally to the increase in value of a property.
  
  If your council is increasing your rates faster than the cost of living is increasing you need to do some loud complaining.
  
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  October 21, 2020 6:03pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Don’t you just love SOCIALISM? Come on – you do!
  
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  October 21, 2020 6:07pm
kiwikidsnz

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300138791/election-2020-what-does-it-take-to-bring-national-back-from-the-dead
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October 21, 2020 5:23pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Liz Wheeler on Youtube. She used to be OANN but left I think.
Anyways, more stuff involving Hunter and Joe Biden. There is something very stinky going on and the US media are quiet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WB_Welq5g8
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October 21, 2020 5:49pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fucking hell, the leftie socialists have not gone to bed yet, to continue masturbating over their win.
  Pity you can’t suck your own dick – or can you ……
  
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  October 21, 2020 7:06pm
info@cruzpro.com

There are 8000 jobs available for people willing to pick crops. stats.nz reports that there are 111,000 unemployed people in New Zealand. A large number of those would be people on the dole capable of working.

Why should hard working tax payers be paying those people to sit around doing nothing?

Labour doesn’t have to worry about getting re-elected soon. This is an amazing opportunity for them to both increase productivity, get people off welfare and create a work-ethic in a number of lazy dole bludgers. Make them work or lose their entitlement! Your country needs your help!
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October 21, 2020 6:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Not capable of working. Say a vineyard that does 20000kg of grapes. You want those unemployable fuckheads in there pruning?
  
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  October 21, 2020 7:09pm

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