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October 23, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 October 2020

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Happy Birthday, Earth!
Fun fact: the Earth was created by God 6024 years ago today, on 23 October, 2004 BC. This date was calculated by James Ussher in the seventeenth century.
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October 23, 2020 8:00am
- Scott
  
  Thanks for that Mikey.
  For myself I would be comfortable stating that I believe the earth is relatively young, thousands of years old rather than millions of years.
  That’s based on the biblical genealogies, which don’t include everybody. Some family genealogy leave out the rat bags and those that were not particularly significant. But the genealogy wouldn’t accommodate a million years here or a million years there.
  
  Also historically we don’t have tribes and kingdoms that go back even 20,000 years? Who was the king anywhere in 20,000 BC?
  
  Lastly time is the hero of evolutionary theory. Given enough time improbable things can happen like microbes evolving to become man. A creationist theory of origins doesn’t require millions of years.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:24am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Scott.
    The Bible, in relation to the Old Testament – Genesis in particular, is neither a truly historical document, nor is it scientific document.
    It is simply foolish to deny the scientific evidence that demonstrates that the earth was created approx. 4.5 billion years ago (I think – correct me if I’m wrong). Even though science is a man made discipline, through the creation of mankind by God, he has given us intelligence to discern right from wrong and possible from impossible. The Big Bang theory was worked out by a Catholic priest by using the scientific method, and most scientists today agree with that hypothesis.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:39am
    - Scott
      
      Don – have to disagree. The book of Genesis is very clear and well crafted. God is the creator of all things and created all things in a short period of time. In the thousands of years according to biblical genealogy since then we have the old Testament, the prophets, the new covenant through Jesus and the promise of the last days and the second coming of Jesus in due time.
      
      To use unscientific language I think the whole theory of evolution is bull. It is a way of mankind trying to understand how we came to be without God. I think the scientific evolution hypothesis is just that and has never been proven.
      
      I think it takes a lot of faith to believe in evolution. In the beginning nothing exploded for no particular reason and became everything. Somehow life formed. That primitive cell somehow evolved into more complex cellular organisms that have led to mankind.
      
      Or – an intelligent mind created the universe and that’s why we have people who do have intelligent minds and why our bodies are fearfully and wonderfully made. So special creation is a way better theory than the theory of evolution.
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:07pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Interestingly, there is essentially no difference between the “young earth” religious believers and those “scientific” types speculating that we all actually live in a massive simulation.
        
        Effectively cannot be proved or disproved as any contradicting data points can just be explained as “that’s the way that {God or the simulator designers} set it up. All evolutionary explanations are covered the same way, it just looks like that because that is the way it was created.
        
        And of course Bishop Ussher was incorrect, he didn’t take into account differences in calendar reckonings, so the actual creation date is 5 November – and there were REAL big fireworks on that day !
        
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        October 23, 2020 1:24pm
  - DJA
    
    “Also historically we don’t have tribes and kingdoms that go back even 20,000 years? Who was the king anywhere in 20,000 BC?”
    
    Humans lived in small hunter-gatherer groups until the advent of agriculture and farming about 10,000 years ago which led to the formation of large, stable communities and eventually kingdoms. This also necessitated the invention of gods in an attempt to monitor and police these societies – members of a community would be led to believe that they were being watched by some all-powerful being who would punish them for free-loading, committing crimes or any other activities potentially detrimental to that community.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:56am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘members of a community would be led to believe that they were being watched by some all-powerful being who would punish them for free-loading, committing crimes or any other activities potentially detrimental to that community.’
      
      It has come to pass.
      The community is called Bennies and the all powerful is the IRD watching through Facebook .
      
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      October 23, 2020 4:15pm
- JackRabbit
  
  God was on a three year vacation in the Pegasus Galaxy 6024 years ago, so it might have been his cousin or sister in-law. I wonder how long the warranty lasts?
  
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  October 23, 2020 10:51am
  - Jimmy White
    
    I understand that the Devil stood in for him while he went on vacations, which explains a lot.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:52am
- RalphT
  
  Hi Mikey, 4004 bc, not 2004. And apparently it was the evening before the 23rd, around 6pm on the 22nd. Makes little difference when measured against the billions of years that most of us accept as the earth’s age, but for a creationist it would be like a lifetime.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:41am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  Taking the piss is always better achieved when you get the maths right, idiot.
  
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  October 23, 2020 12:12pm
  - Harriet
    
    Scientists can’t give us something as simple as the right time.
    
    Which then ends up leading to things like Corona Virus being released.
    
    I’ll keep my faith God. 😎
    
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    October 23, 2020 4:47pm
Sigmund Freud

Another week of wild panic over a sniffle.

INSANE
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October 23, 2020 8:07am
- Notsofast
  
  I am repurposing my life to become a front line health worker and I vehemently recommend opening our borders to unrestricted travel.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:14am
Maggy Wassilieff

Public broadcasting about to receive some fairy dust?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123178386/tvnzrnz-merger-back-on-after-election-but-rationale-remains-sketchy

Perhaps we need another view – do we need Public broadcasting?
https://www.skynews.com.au/details/_6203777590001
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October 23, 2020 8:08am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Without Public Broadcasting, Labour will lose control. Gotta keep the plebs in a state of fear
  
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  October 23, 2020 8:19am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘If you feel sick, don’t go on holiday this weekend’
    Do as I say not as I do
    
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    October 23, 2020 8:21am
  - Catgurl13
    
    I find it intriguing that these media TV types are happy to have a massive tax put on them by Labour?. Given they all earn in the 6 figures. That’s quite a lot of money they will be losing of their salaries?
    
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    October 23, 2020 8:24am
    - artemisia
      
      TVOne has changed from two 6pm presenters to one. More than one way to skin the proverbial.
      
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      October 23, 2020 9:05am
      - Flossie
        
        And there’s no perceptible difference in the programme. Always worked really well with one at the weekend so it seemed a sensible and logical decision to me. Wonder why they took so long to do it.
        
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        October 23, 2020 10:05am
      - Biscuit
        
        Artemisia, you mean ‘from two 6pm Autocue readers to one…’
        
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        October 23, 2020 12:21pm
      - sooty
        
        Wonder if they took a pay cut to keep a job.
        Any job is better than no job.
        Just think how much they can save in the afer 7pm segment alone!
        
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        October 23, 2020 12:46pm
  - kowtow
    
    nah , newshub /tv3 not far behind their public broadcast comrades in pushing the same agenda.
    
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    October 23, 2020 8:37am
    - Ian Hawthorn
      
      The agenda they are pushing isn’t a purely NZ one. Ask yourself why the Hunter Biden laptop story has not broken yet in any NZ media. Our media is aligned with and is pushing the agenda of US media companies.
      
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      October 23, 2020 10:53am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        CNN mainly
        
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        October 23, 2020 2:38pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    National had its chance to get rid of it. Too scared probably.
    
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    October 23, 2020 8:38am
  - igm
    
    What about the $50m used to buy favourable views fron private media also?
    Ardern is dangerous as well as useless.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:44am
- Albert_Ross
  
  The problem with media in general these days, especially news media, is that producing quality output is costly and it doesn’t turn a profit, whereas the populace laps up cheap, meretricious trash. How this is to be resolved without public funding, which does indeed carry its own downsides, is beyond me
  
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  October 23, 2020 8:32am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Nothing needs to be done. There are many online resources both free and paid that will keep you informed.
    
    It is rare to find a New Zealand journalist who knows anything about anything. Best thing to do would be to shut down TVNZ and New Zealand on Air and RNZ. Convert Radio New Zealand into a basic news network for New Zealand news. No opinion pieces and woke journalists. Just a basic news service.
    
    The Government could then have a site to help low information voters find overseas news, and critically a list of New Zealand blogs, commentators, and sites about a range of New Zealand subjects from farming to transport to science. Put a couple of people in charge of updating it every week.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:06am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      But why would any government want an informed populace, though? If the voters were actually informed, Labour would not have won by such a large margin on Saturday. So the usual, approved outlets will stay.
      
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      October 23, 2020 12:16pm
      - Harriet
        
        Exactly, and I’ll add that it is private institutions that are key to moving right in NZ – as those on the ‘center right’ in NZ politics are not moving right but left. Just look at National in the last 20yrs.
        
        You need Sky News New Zealand. You need precinct societies. You need the Tax Payers Union.
        
        Because you now have their private institutions reforming – trade unions.
        
        And besides, the government isn’t elected to help you. 😎
        
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        October 23, 2020 5:02pm
  - mandk
    
    Surely you aren’t implying that the state broadcasters produce quality output.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:07am
  - Pateke
    
    Not sure how trash can be meretricious but it gets an up tick anyway.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:08am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I’m sorry, I hear plenty of of cheap, meretricious trash on red radio. For instance every orange man bad story has been lapped up and spread by them. Only by going to the actual video and listening to him did I find out that my tax dollars were paying for red radio to lie.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:15am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Being a “quality news” outlet doesn’t mean free from bias. Daily Mail is trashy news with a lot of celebrity gossip and tabloid content but I like it’s public comments section with uptick/downtick function and this adds some opportunity for public feedback and a bit more democracy to the news. It gives the public the opportunity to have their say on an article and get a read on public opinion. I wish Newstalk zb would add this to their article.
    
    For example Newshub *arguably a quality news paper* ran an article.
    “Fitness influencer who ‘thought there was no COVID-19’ dies after contracting virus on holiday” The article was also shared on the Daily Mail, a tabloid newspaper. Firstly it Daily Mail had a lot more info in the article. Including that the fitness influencers covid had triggered heart complications. His heart was “not starting” said his wife. Newshub (who appear to be the more legitimate paper) had not mentioned heart complications and “that his heart wouldn’t start” Second, the man was unusually huge and muscular. The comments in the daily mail questioned whether the man was on steroids or other drugs. So just because the daily mail runs trash articles (which probably pay for the content) they often have a better level of detailed reporting than newshub . And sometimes the comments contain more truth and more investigative questioning that the journalists. With journalists becoming more powerful allowing anonymous comments is a kind of checks and balances. And I guess that’s why Stuff closed their comment’s section down.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:48am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, they are broadcasting to the converted, whereas the wise amongst us choose our intake carefully. Only the rest home inmates and hospital waiting rooms are chained to local TV news. Thanks to my smart TV the world is my oyster.
  
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  October 23, 2020 8:43am
  - pjay
    
    I am hopeful that the DOJ’s antitrust lawsuit against Google will mark the start of a major shake out of these monopoly giants – including our own fleabag media.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:03am
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      The problem is that the four Big Tech entities own everyone in politics, with one or two notable exceptions.
      
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      October 23, 2020 12:18pm
- burt
  
  There has never been a socialist empire that didn’t have full control over the state run media. So simple answer to your question ‘do we need Public broadcasting?’ – Labour do.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:01am
  - Swifty
    
    Excellent burt.
    
    I’m going to borrow that one.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    They not only need it ,they will enforce it
    
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    October 23, 2020 10:02am
artemisia

Ms Collins put a stake in the ground for personal responsibility. ACT has that as a basic principle anyway. There is an opportunity now to build on that with a principled and comprehensive set of policies based on celebrating and rewarding the good while not penalising the bad (too much).

So workers get a tick. Savers get a tick. Crime victims get a tick. Victims of their own bad choices not so much. Good parents get a tick. Healthy lifestyles get a tick. And so on.

It would be big and bold. Most of us are good people who make decent choices and take responsibility for ourselves and our families. Time that is recognised and not penalised.
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October 23, 2020 8:08am
- artemisia
  
  An example in the media today of a personal decision gone wrong so find someone else to blame and pay up. But, recordings ….
  
  FSCL said recordings showed it was clear that the woman was told she needed to make her own decision about her investments and she was being given general information about the options but not advice.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300137513/saver-seeks-16000-compensation-after-fund-switch-goes-wrong
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:07am
- Albert_Ross
  
  What exactly would “get a tick” mean in practice?
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:16am
  - artemisia
    
    The intention is a basic principle that initiatives are measured against. Like the social investment approach and human rights legislation.
    
    So in my mind, each new policy proposal would go through a robust cui bono process against the principle of personal responsibility.
    
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    October 23, 2020 10:31am
- DeepBlue
  
  Interesting concept.
  
  An extension is a tick for volunteering. A far better proposition than work- for- the- dole.
  
  If people get a tick (financial benefit not tied to employment) for volunteering you could achieve a seismic shift in wellbeing and social cohesion. Thoughts?
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:48am
  - artemisia
    
    That would be relatively easy to set up using the existing charitable donations system. So a charity gets approval, issues a ‘donation’ receipt for an approved value for time rather than money and the volunteer gets a third back from IRD.
    
    I just made that up but no point in making new systems if no need.
    
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    October 23, 2020 10:35am
- David George
  
  The question of personal versus collective responsibility is fundamental yet we’re not even having the discussion.
  Judith Collins attempt at raising the issues around diet and exercise were derided by our fool of a PM, EVERYTHING is the responsibility of the State according to her.
  Obviously either extreme is undesirable but where do we draw the line, apparently there is no line according to some.
  
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  October 23, 2020 10:04am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Judith Collins’ on-the-mark comments about weight and personal responsibility were derided by a media desperate to get their Labour paymasters re-elected. Now we see the same media fawning over the Match Fit reality series showing ex-All Blacks doing exactly what Judith was talking about: owning up to fitness and weight being their own responsibility
    
    $1Stuff : “Three brings back Buck for the best reality show of the year”
    
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    October 23, 2020 12:25pm
- Jazzby
  
  It’s not a new idea, but one that hasn’t been taken up. I wrote a book about it (published in the UK in 2012), and gave copies to Jamie Whyte (when he led ACT) and Judith Collins. Whyte didn’t respond, and Collins brushed off the idea.
  It’s all very well to float such social initiatives, but the devil’s own job to get them past both social inertia and politicians’ lack of imagination.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:26am
  - artemisia
    
    Is your book still available? You are right, it is by no means a new idea to reward desired activity.
    
    There is possibly a very tiny chink in the Opposition atm, maybe just maybe ….
    
    Might be worth sending a copy to Mr Seymour with a suggestion he get a couple of his new team to put something together for consideration. Some rigorous cost benefit analysis would show if there is financial benefit at end of the day. Like the social investment approach, sadly replaced by its opposite.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:55am
    - Jazzby
      
      Thank you. As one isn’t allowed to advertise on Kiwiblog, I can’t give you the details – but yes, the book is available from Amazon, in both paper and electronic form.
      I’ll certainly take up your suggestion, and send a copy to David Seymour.
      
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      October 23, 2020 12:40pm
      - artemisia
        
        What about a guest post on this site?
        
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        October 23, 2020 5:28pm
  - Classic Liberal
    
    I’m for the concept. But I remember some of the issues brought up by both parties when this has been discussed.
    1. Competition w private business.
    2. Expenses of volunteer employment (work safety still applies and tools, transport etc might be needed).
    3. Fair pay rate for the volunteer work done. Can’t ask for a 40hr week for dole.
    
    I’m sure you book addressed all this and far more.
    
    Personally I reckon if they lowered the tax rate there would be hundreds of little start ups to help the ageing population with home maintenance and young families w childcare.
    
    I’d much rather pay for more help w house and garden than my current tax rate. And I’d want to pay a fair rate to self employed people making a go of it.
    
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    October 23, 2020 1:10pm
    - artemisia
      
      I have rellies in Melbourne who were unemployed time to time. They were required to do 15 hours a week volunteer work in exchange for the dole and seemed like the issues you raise must have been resolved. One rellie always worked for a council plant nursery. The other did office admin for a couple of charities.
      
      The plant nursery work was repetitive but some had been there for years and were proficient at several jobs. These were usually people not readily employable in the market, but who got a lot out of their ‘job’.
      
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      October 23, 2020 3:50pm
- Notsofast
  
  Remember the first written words after Robin Bain killed most of his family
  
  Dr Alec Dempster, the pathologist:
  
  He described the entry wound to Robin Bain as being 4mm in diameter surrounded by a ring of soot up to 10 mm in diameter.
  
  “This indicates to me that this is a contact wound where the muzzle of the gun has been held in direct contact with the skin of the deceased.”
  
  The single bullet trajectory was precisely and uniquely compatible with suicide.
  
  Collins either is unaware of this, or as Joe Karam stated after the end of the affair
  
  “Judith Collins is beneath contempt”.
  
  There are countless New Zealanders who loathe Collins for her malicious deceit in the Bain case and that is why National is totally screwed with her in charge.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:41am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    Yeah right, and a stranger with no motive murdered the Lundy family!
    
    There is no way that Robin Bain could have held a rifle to his head at that angle and pulled the trigger. Why would you choose the hardest way to kill yourself when there were easier ones.
    
    On the other hand, if you were standing above a kneeling individual, that would be exactly the angle a bullet would take.
    
    I was always astonished this wasn’t immediately obvious.
    
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    October 23, 2020 12:07pm
    - Notsofast
      
      Robin t0ok the gun in his right hand and placed the butt on the floor. He located his temple on the muzzle, reached down and depressed the trigger with his left thumb. The trajectory of the bullet was left front to right rear with a 10 degree upslope when looking at a man standing.
      Suicide she wrote.
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:31pm
      - DJA
        
        How did Robin do this without leaving fingerprints anywhere on the gun?
        
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        October 23, 2020 4:01pm
  - Flossie
    
    Isn’t it possible to murder someone by putting a gun muzzle directly onto their body?
    
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    October 23, 2020 12:10pm
    - Notsofast
      
      Yes it is, but they need to be restrained. Robin Bain had blood on his hands, and a distinctive parallel mark on his thumb from loading the bullets in the cartridge, and David Bain did no0t restrain him, he was delivering newspapers.
      Martin Van Beynen is a deluded fool, and TVNZ should probably be prosecuted for defamation of David Bain.
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:27pm
      - DJA
        
        Forensic fingerprint analysis confirmed that the marks on Robin’s thumb were old scratches.
        
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        October 23, 2020 4:06pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    I think Mark Lundy did it.
    
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    October 23, 2020 12:18pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      And his time travelling extra fast Falcon got him there, and back again, in record time !
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:26pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    When David Bain and Joe Karam succeeded in using obfuscation, lies and trickery to fool the third jury into believing the completely unbelievable, Karam said to the murderer, “Hey David, let’s have a slap-up meal to celebrate. Where would you like to go?”
    
    “Straight to KFC thanks Joe, I could murder a Family Pack.”
    
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    October 23, 2020 1:45pm
- burt
  
  I get what you’re saying, and it makes sense but in reality what you have just described is nanny state via a star chart.
  
  Some here are agreeing with it, would they still agree when the thing getting the tick isn’t something they agree with?
  
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  October 23, 2020 3:01pm
- Jules99
  
  Sounds like the Chinese social credit score. If it falls too low they stop you catching a train. Who decides what makes a good parent? The state? The fairest thing to do is give people the freedom to make choices and suffer the consequences.
  
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  October 23, 2020 4:21pm
Ruahine

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/428528/labour-s-kris-faafoi-puts-tvnz-rnz-merger-back-on-table-vows-for-local-journalism-support

Some of the KB readers may have missed this little gem. It is lovely living in New Zealand or should that be Aotearoa where there are always lovely good news stories about the lovely Labour Gov’t.
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October 23, 2020 8:09am
- Jimmy White
  
  I hear that Syme and O’Brien have been selected to set up the merger.
  
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  October 23, 2020 12:11pm
Simon

The ayatollah is Ridin with Biden.

Designated as a State Sponsor of Terrorism in 1984, Iran continued its terrorist-related activity in 2019, including support for Hizballah, Palestinian terrorist groups in Gaza, and various terrorist groups in Syria, Iraq, and throughout the Middle East.

https://www.state.gov/reports/country-reports-on-terrorism-2019/iran/

Members of the mainstream political media inadvertently furthered an Iranian disinformation campaign Wednesday by writing a number of viral reports suggesting that the far-right Proud Boys group was threatening Democratic voters via email, just hours before the FBI and the DNI announced the emails were actually sent by Iranians looking to disrupt the election.

https://www.nationalreview.com/news/media-lincoln-project-inadvertently-further-iranian-proud-boys-disinformation-campaign/
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October 23, 2020 8:11am
Simon

Offering a laptop repair service catering solely to the Left / Neolib Globalists. It’s $25 million per laptop in advance. Don’t guarantee any actual repairs but the laptop stays in the shop.

Endorsed by Joe Biden in his own words:

“No Malarkey Man. Should have gone with with ah ah um Emu no ah Kiwi laptops”
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October 23, 2020 8:14am
- Loddenthinks
  
  “You know, the thing. Come on man!”
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:49am
Critical Thinker

The Biden Cartel ?

Joe “Big Guy” Biden sold out America, for millions of dollars from the Chinese Communist Party.
https://t.co/fwnKA8Y2CD

Fox News reports: Hunter Biden’s former business partner says “the reference to ‘the Big Guy’ is in fact a reference to Joe Biden”
https://t.co/JcFL5RdMUZ

#TREASON
??
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October 23, 2020 8:16am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Biden family insider Tony Bobulinski has provided a trove of documents to U.S. Senate investigators.
  
  In them, text messages, emails, and other documents illustrate a larger picture of concern regarding the Biden family’s operating procedures, and deep connections that Joe Biden himself has to all of this.
  
  Text messages reveal details about the negotiations between Chinese officials and the Biden family. In one 2017 text message, Hunter Biden himself says that a Chinese investor intended to become partners with him in order to “be partners with the Bidens.”
  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/22/biden-insider-tony-bobulinski-provides-trove-documents-senate-investigators/
  
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  October 23, 2020 8:31am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Kamala Harris, and other prominent Democrats listed as ‘key contacts’ for Biden family business venture projects ?
    
    A list of “key domestic contacts” for a joint venture involving Jim and Hunter Biden and now-bankrupt CEFC China Energy Co. included former Vice President Joe Biden’s current running mate Sen. Kamala Harris, among other prominent Democrats.
    
    The list included:
    Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer Sen. Amy Klobuchar
    Sen. Dianne Feinstein
    Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand
    Gov. Andrew Cuomo
    Mayor Bill de Blasio
    among others.
    
    “I realized the Chinese were not really focused on a healthy financial ROI. They were looking at this as a political or influence investment.
    I just saw behind the Biden curtain and I grew concerned with what I saw. The Biden family aggressively leveraged the Biden family name to make millions of dollars from foreign entities even though some were from communist-controlled China.” – Former Biden business partner Tony Bobulinski
    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/jim-hunter-biden-china-joint-venture-key-contacts
    
    15 7
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    October 23, 2020 8:51am
    - Jules99
      
      “I realized the Chinese were not really focused on a healthy financial ROI.”
      
      LOL.
      
      2 0
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      October 23, 2020 3:49pm
- burt
  
  They are going to need to impeach Trump again if these allegations keep surfacing.
  
  15 4
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  October 23, 2020 9:26am
  - Mike
    
    True. Evidence supporting the key allegations against Trump do keep emerging.
    
    6 10
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    October 23, 2020 11:07am
    - Jimmy White
      
      Mainly from the ‘reliable and truthful’ voice of Adam Schiff.
      
      3 1
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      October 23, 2020 12:13pm
    - burt
      
      Yes, they keep emerging against Biden, Obama & Clinton. At least we have no doubt now about the media bias.
      
      2 1
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      October 23, 2020 1:41pm
- FatTony
  
  Trump has bank accounts in China. Biden doesn’t:
  
  https://www.foxnews.com/politics/trump-china-bank-account-hotel-deals-tax-records
  
  Not only that, but Trump paid $180,000 in taxes to the Chinese government. He paid $750 in taxes in the US.
  
  Trump is happy to pay money to the communist government of China. But not to the US government.
  
  Trump puts America last.
  
  5 22
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  October 23, 2020 11:00am
  - FatTony
    
    The Trumps have actually been getting favours from Communist China for years:
    
    https://apnews.com/article/0a3283036d2f4e699da4aa3c6dd01727
    
    But sorry to interrupt, please carry on with your conspiracy theories.
    
    5 16
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    October 23, 2020 11:08am
  - RJ
    
    Nope, trump does not have bank accounts in China. However his businesses has one bank account because to do any sort of businesses in China you legally have to have a Chinese bank account.
    
    Your report card for today is must try harder.
    
    20 2
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    October 23, 2020 11:24am
    - FatTony
      
      Denial noun. a defence mechanism which involves a refusal to accept reality. If a situation is just too much to handle, the person may respond by refusing to perceive it or by denying that it exists.
      
      2 13
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      October 23, 2020 11:48am
      - Jimmy White
        
        No way will you be able to find a Bank account in the Name of Donald J Trump in China. As a person who has multiple hotels across the world his companies would need at least one Account in China to be able to take reservations . (as stated above its the law in China)
        
        6 2
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        October 23, 2020 12:18pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        I find it so obnoxious when people post dictionary definitions of words they attribute to another.
        
        ob•nox•ious ŏb-nŏk′shəs,
        adj. Very annoying or objectionable; offensive or odious.
        
        0 3
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        October 23, 2020 12:22pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Look ! squirrel !!!
        
        Come on FT, you can do better than that, check the email you got with the talking points, there must be some more effective than a business bank account disclosed in business tax filings (and that is a legal requirement in China) that has been inactive for several years. Did the email tell you to mention that Trump paid the Russians that way, or that Tony Bobulinski is really a Russian Agent ?
        
        But rest assured, regardless of how damning the information that is released on Biden, no major US network or newspaper will even mention the story. They have been given their instructions, and they’re sticking to them; the peasants just aren’t supposed to learn about news that hasn’t been properly vetted for them.
        
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        October 23, 2020 1:33pm
WaynelSexton

The reports about Hunter Biden’s hard drive are rapidly going from bad to worse for the Biden crime family

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/report-topless-photos-minor-hunter-bidens-laptop-relative-photos/
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October 23, 2020 8:17am
- WaynelSexton
  
  It is readily apparent that the entire family has serious boundary issues.
  
  https://nypost.com/2020/02/03/joe-biden-kisses-granddaughter-on-lips-during-iowa-rally/
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:10am
- BeeJay
  
  Oh Wayne, find reliable sources rather than the garbage far-right “gateway pundit”!
  Quote from a reliable source – The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right news and opinion website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes and conspiracy theories!
  Totally pro-Trump, founded by far right Heartland media man, Jim Hoft!
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:31am
  - Ed Snack
    
    So, the right’s equivalent of the WaPo and NYT then ? Known to publish falsehoods, check, hoaxes, check, conspiracy theories (the laptop is Russian Disinformation), check.
    
    Important note, always attack the information by focusing on the location it was published, never on the content itself. That’s the best way to obfuscate and try to divert.
    
    1 3
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    October 23, 2020 1:37pm
  - burt
    
    Yeah Wayne, you need to read the bias left wing media not the bias right wing media.
    
    2 1
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    October 23, 2020 1:42pm
- Jaundiced
  
  Nothing a hit job on Rudy Giuliani won’t fix!
  
  12 3
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  October 23, 2020 9:33am
  - Mike
    
    Rudy specializes in hitting himself.
    
    3 10
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    October 23, 2020 11:08am
Jade Warrior

If Phil Twyford was our Foreign Minister, how many weeks would it take before New Zealand would be at war?
21 3
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October 23, 2020 8:17am
- pdm
  
  Intriguing thought – then again nothing he attempts happens.
  
  7 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:00am
- burt
  
  He’d promise war immediately but never deliver it.
  
  29 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:27am
  - sooty
    
    Oh goody! Know we can finally use our 105 LAVs for what they were designed for target practice!
    
    7 0
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    October 23, 2020 9:46am
    - Mike
      
      Aren’t half of them still in the wrapping paper because we don’t have enough soldiers to use them all?
      
      7 0
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      October 23, 2020 11:10am
      - Nermal
        
        They would never be used as VINZ wouldn’t issue WOFs for some obscure reason
        
        0 0
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        October 23, 2020 4:58pm
  - Yabster
    
    thats gold!
    
    2 0
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    October 23, 2020 11:25am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    But what if he promises no war?
    
    3 0
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    October 23, 2020 11:45am
- Classic Liberal
  
  And why would the US bother to help us…
  
  1 1
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  October 23, 2020 9:28am
  - Mike
    
    Because we’re alliance partners? Although Orange Donnie would probably say we don’t pay our bills?
    
    3 5
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    October 23, 2020 11:11am
    - NoFax
      
      We don’t pay our bills – we rely on Uncle Sam and call him names at the same time. Sometimes NZers are pathetic when it comes to foreign policy and defence.
      
      13 1
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      October 23, 2020 11:38am
- Jimmy White
  
  China claims the Kermadec Islands as they were first found by Zheng He in 1400
  
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  October 23, 2020 12:22pm
Nigel Kearney

Broadcasting maybe but not news. Government should not own or fund news providers.
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October 23, 2020 8:18am
- Nermal
  
  If only we had news providers
  
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  October 23, 2020 4:59pm
gorse

What we need is straight up and down broadcasting and print media. The election has demonstrated how left wing biased it all is. I don’t have any idea how we are to fix this. I note that as ACT slipped in under their radar they are just beginning to attack them too. Maybe a Trump method is required, mock them and don’t use them. A fair leaders debate that is done outside of our media, maybe streamed via the Internet only, as I say I don’t have any solutions. I do know it cannot remain like this.
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October 23, 2020 8:19am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Nearly everyone is biased in some way. But we could do with balance in the form of some news media with a right wing bias.
  
  12 1
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  October 23, 2020 9:11am
- WaynelSexton
  
  The media has always been biased to the left. We went from a homogeneous, socially conservative Christian nation in the 50s to a multicultural sodomy loving nation who has referendums on killing old people and legalizing drugs.
  
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  October 23, 2020 1:31pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Downticker is awake early- shit the bed?
31 21
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October 23, 2020 8:26am
- hullkiwi
  
  Andrew has spies everywhere. Beware the hate speech monitors. It sounds like being back at primary school.
  
  19 7
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  October 23, 2020 8:29am
- Catgurl13
  
  They really do spend hours on a site they don’t even like.
  
  17 6
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  October 23, 2020 8:32am
- MCos
  
  There’s another one for you.
  
  You been to get a covid test yet, Mr North Shore Man?
  
  10 3
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  October 23, 2020 8:40am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Been twice – both negative
    
    7 2
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    October 23, 2020 10:07am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Odd, that made others join him…
  
  3 4
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  October 23, 2020 8:40am
- BeeJay
  
  SO(NS) – I often wonder who it could be, and why would they bother being such a dick? But on your last post there’s a whole heap of them! Maybe they woke the family up?
  
  11 8
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  October 23, 2020 8:47am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Actually Beejay I wonder if the huge ‘response’ to Steve Otto’s post indicates something more sinister?
    
    The vast amount of upticks and downticks compared to all other comments so far makes me wonder if some sort of AI bot is being employed in an attempt to skew opinions. Kiwibloggers are too intelligent to be swayed….. but I’m sure that Artificial Intelligence is being employed to great effect on other platforms such as FB and Instagram etc.
    
    7 4
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    October 23, 2020 9:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Many accounts?
    
    1 2
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    October 23, 2020 10:08am
- Ed Snack
  
  I will forbear in this case, but you do know that any post that mentions downticks almost automatically gets plenty.
  
  So what’s the first rule of the Downticker’s Club ?
  
  1 0
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  October 23, 2020 1:39pm
- Nermal
  
  I always downtick posts complaining about being downticked
  
  0 0
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  October 23, 2020 5:00pm
Alboy

On a Newshub poll this morning, 44% think Auckland should go back into some form of lockdown! What’s wrong with these people……
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October 23, 2020 8:31am
- Akarak
  
  All incoming nternational flights diverted to Ohakea.
  All passengers and crews placed in isolation at Linton military camp. Problem solved.
  
  6 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:06am
- Paulus
  
  Cult Control
  
  6 1
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  October 23, 2020 9:07am
- Inandout
  
  Alboy, lockdown keeps us safe with companies and employees paid by the taxpayer. What more could you wish for?
  
  9 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:16am
  - Alboy
    
    You’re right inandout, what was I thinking!
    
    5 0
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    October 23, 2020 10:20am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Explains why Labour got so many votes.
  
  32 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:19am
  - Cinematic
    
    History will not be kind to the protagonists of this mass hysteria.
    
    9 2
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    October 23, 2020 9:43am
    - Alboy
      
      But currently, the left seem to be writing the history so I’m not so sure. In 50 years time they’re just as likely to want to sanctify these people for saving humanity.
      
      6 2
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      October 23, 2020 10:38am
  - sooty
    
    I agree Aucklanders should not be allowed out in the rest of NZ, without their mothers!
    
    12 0
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    October 23, 2020 9:49am
- gorse
  
  Alboy, 44% of Auckland want to be paid to stay at home. They think the money will kero rolling in – until it doesn’t.
  
  15 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:37am
- BAM
  
  Everyone wants to work from home.
  Fuck the daily 2-4 hour commute
  
  11 1
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  October 23, 2020 9:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I see the commute every weekday morning. All at a standstill 11 km north of the bridge. They are definitely on a salary and not an hourly rate. Unproductives
    
    1 4
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    October 23, 2020 2:45pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Lockdown is coming. The boss needs to show who is in control
  
  12 4
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  October 23, 2020 10:09am
- Jimbob
  
  Money grows on trees apparently.
  
  11 0
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  October 23, 2020 10:18am
  - MCos
    
    If you own some houses it pretty much does.
    
    5 2
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    October 23, 2020 11:20am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  I’d rather a week at level 2 to be clear after finding one infectious person walking around than 6-8weeks if another cluster forms at level 1.
  
  0 11
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  October 23, 2020 10:57am
  - Don Beckett
    
    So you too are taken in by the fear propaganda.
    
    11 0
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    October 23, 2020 11:49am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      No. I just know what the political response will be if there is another cluster – same as last two times. I would far rather 1 week of inconvenience and economic damage than another 6 weeks.
      
      1 1
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      October 23, 2020 3:21pm
- ByGolly
  
  People with dead end jobs would rather get paid to watch Netflix.
  
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  October 27, 2020 12:05am
Swifty

For years and years I grew up only hearing about ‘Americans’. Then in the 70s and 80s I guess I started to hear about ‘African-Americans’ and ‘Latino-Americans’ etc.

Now I frequently hear New Zealanders or ‘Kiwis’ prefaced with an ethnicity – ‘Chinese-New Zealanders’, ‘Somali-New Zealanders’ etc

But now, what’s this? Now we have ‘Kiwi-Indians’:

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/on-the-inside/428892/election-of-first-kiwi-indian-electorate-mp-marks-a-milestone

Is this just a figure of speech peculiar to this individual reporter? Or is this more widespread? Has anyone else noticed this figure of speech elsewhere?

Does it have any particular significance does anyone know?
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October 23, 2020 8:32am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I thought they were using kiwindian and chiwi..
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/marlborough-express/editors-picks/9703346/Kiwindian-questions-NZ-culture
  
  https://www.chiwijobs.com/
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:23am
Swifty

A sheep gets revenge on a cat:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSZ1YDzvk6I

A sight many of us in NZ will be familiar with….

🙂
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October 23, 2020 8:34am
Swifty

Oh how Rosemary McLeod has slipped in recent years:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/123172884/it-worries-me-that-we-now-have-declared-gun-owners-in-parliament

I have never seen a more emotional, poorly argued, contradictory, illogical piece from her.

BTW Rosemary – we have had gun owners and users in our Parliament for as long as it has existed. I wonder why she appears to propose that this is a new thing.
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October 23, 2020 8:39am
- Albert_Ross
  
  What, she was once good?
  
  As far as I’m concerned she has always been illogical and incoherent and I have never understood how she has managed to remain in employment.
  
  17 1
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  October 23, 2020 9:22am
  - Swifty
    
    A good question – I started reading her in The Listener in the early-mid ’80s and thought her ok. But, as you say, on reflection that may have been a reflection of my youth, my interests at that time and that back then I might have been more easily pleased.
    
    12 1
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    October 23, 2020 10:36am
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  I was at a gun auction 2 years ago when the revolver given to Dick Seddon’s son was auctioned.
  
  The story. Young Seddon was heading off to the Boer War. Cabinet had a whip-around, and purchased and engraved a nice Webley revolver to show their best wishes for the young man.
  
  The Webley was bought after stiff bidding, by a representative from Te Papa – in my view the right outcome, as this is a historic piece.
  
  Wonder if it will ever be displayed?
  
  And now we have some silly middle class Karen twittering away about scary guns.
  
  How New Zealand has fallen!
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:29am
- graham
  
  That really is an appalling piece of writing. It can be summed up as this:
  
  – I don’t like guns.
  – I once held a gun that I knew had been used to kill a man and found it really upsetting.
  – Therefore I don’t like that there are people who own guns in Parliament.
  – Mass killings happen in America, which is bad.
  
  As you say Swifty, there is no logic, no reasoning, no thought – just a knee-jerk reaction of “I don’t like guns.” Does she REALLY think that nobody in Parliament has EVER owned or used a gun? Surely she can’t be that silly … can she?
  
  Sadly, the last sentence may go some way to explaining what sort of person Ms McLeod is:
  
  Since Covid appeared, Californians have bought more than 100,000 guns to scare it away. I was so terrified that I bought bulk flour and rice. My thought was, you’ve got to eat.
  
  Great. So she was one of those panic-buyers that screwed up things for the rest of us who were perfectly happy to just continue shopping normally.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:34am
  - Swifty
    
    A good summary graham.
    
    10 1
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    October 23, 2020 10:37am
    - sooty
      
      I wonder what she thinks of our retuned service people that actually shot people with the intention of killing them?
      There is not as many as there once was!
      Probably some in her family she should be thanking for been here today and been able to say what she did, without consequences!
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:03pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Kelvin Davis handed in his automatic when they changed the laws.
    
    Kelvin Davis had an automatic!
    
    How could these people be even remotely worse?
    
    6 0
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    October 23, 2020 12:00pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    They haven’t bought guns to “scare it away” but because they see what the intentions are behind the whole scam. The guns are to defend themselves from a state intent on subjugating them.
    
    3 0
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    October 23, 2020 12:32pm
  - miltonF
    
    She does sound terrified. So terrified that I’d wager she’s exactly the kind of person to rush in and buy a gun over fear. If only she could pass the mental health check required to get a gun licence. Quite ironic.
    
    2 1
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    October 23, 2020 8:03pm
    - Mike
      
      Rather ironically, US stats show buying firearms for self-defence is more likely to kill an owner (or family member) than an intruder.
      
      1 2
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      October 23, 2020 8:13pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The irony is that the person Rosemary McLeod targets is NZ’s foremost Firearms safety expert.
    
    https://fss.nz/nicole-mckee/
    
    3 0
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    October 23, 2020 9:06pm
- gorse
  
  They are there because of “gun” owners. I would suggest the the firearms owners voted en mass for ACT because they are worried people like her will take away their sport/hobby.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:16am
  - Flossie
    
    I know that was the decider for my son to vote ACT
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:33am
I remember when

How long will the tourist industry take to return to normal.
What do the travel insurance premiums look like in a covid inclusive world.
Will the older traveller become a rare, greatly reduce part of the equation.
Will there be a long list of excluded countries that change at the slightest sign of danger.
What effect will that have on the cruise liner industry and will this mean a long term loss of this income.
Could ocean liners be a way of passengers being in isolation, instead of a hotel room at the end of the journey.
Will sea journey’s to the UK and the Continent become a thing again. Ocean going isolation with top food, changing scenery and top entertainment provided.
12 2
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October 23, 2020 8:43am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Nobody knows. What is your point.
  
  9 2
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  October 23, 2020 9:59am
  - Classic Liberal
    
    That it’s an interesting topic.
    
    5 0
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    October 23, 2020 1:23pm
- Jack5
  
  Sea travel is more expensive than air travel.
  
  Who wants to spend five weeks on a sea voyage with a mob of old bores boozing, overeating, sleeping, and playing bingo and shuffleboard?
  
  3 1
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  October 23, 2020 12:29pm
Dave Mann

That cnut Peters has faded from view hasn’t he? Obviously after his and his fake party’s descent into oblivion one wouldn’t expect him to maintain the same profile…. but he’s gone absolutely silent.

Good riddance. And good riddance to that other waste-of-space Jones too. May we never have to see their arrogant corrupt self-serving faces again in New Zealand politics.
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October 23, 2020 8:49am
- Swifty
  
  Have we got his car back yet?
  
  13 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:00am
- SGA
  
  Well… what should/could he be saying?
  
  4 1
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  October 23, 2020 9:12am
  - Dave Mann
    
    Good point, SGA…. but Peters has a history of always spouting something just to get his profile up, regardless . Blah blah, lies lies.
    
    Maybe his silence now suggests that he has finally given up -which is a good thing for NZ – or maybe he’s shitting himself at the prospect of a prison sentence?
    
    5 0
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    October 23, 2020 10:52am
  - zulumonster
    
    Goodbye and sorry.
    
    5 0
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    October 23, 2020 11:19am
    - sooty
      
      Yep. That would be a start!
      He would not need to say anything else!
      
      1 0
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      October 23, 2020 1:06pm
- kowtow
  
  And may the so called major parties never enable their ,cough cough , extravagant spending on the tax payer.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:23am
- david
  
  Well we still pay him for 2 months but presumably he has cleaned out his office and the bar fridge.
  
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  October 23, 2020 2:06pm
hullkiwi

Infectious diseases “expert” tells Newshub the 1pm update today is important to tell us of the spread of the latest.

The inconsistency of approach shows us just how political the whole of government approach has been.

August a family of 4 are confirmed community cases. Immediate Level 3 lockdown for Auckland. Breaking News, PM press stand up etc.

Versus

5 days after the election
A confirmed community case, has visited a pub, and a gym, a family member is confirmed to be a contact at the country’s largest secondary school and another family member contact is a principal at a primary school.

However, Ministry of Health are saying risk of infection is low.

Yet yesterday, in his 15 minute update Bloomfield told us to use the Covid tracer app numerous time, to wash our hands numerous times, to get tested numerous times and to stay home if we felt unwell. Then to further reinforce the message Covid ads saying the same populated Commercial Radio airwaves.

So Bloomfield, cut the proverbial, tell the truth this afternoon and bring PriNZess with you to the podium!
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October 23, 2020 8:52am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I would be surprised if more than 10 percent of people are currently regularly using the COVID app.
  
  Watch people entering a busy place like a supermarket. It is about 1 in 10. Which means it is useless.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:14am
  - kowtow
    
    Robbo on talk back with Peter Williams the other day .
    
    “People must start taking personal responsibility”
    
    Really, a strident call for personal responsibility , from a member of this gubmint ?
    
    For what ? Your weight , your dire straights , your not paying attention in class , your criminal record .
    
    No , no , no.
    
    Using the tracer app .
    
    Personal responsibility when it suits us , and only when it suits .
    
    And when Collins calls for it ,the Media Party make it evil Toryism , story of the week but when Robbo does , it’s just ho hum, nothing to see here , move along please.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:21am
  - MCos
    
    The cafe owner down the road from me told me yesterday it was about 30%.
    If it was 100% at that pub on the North Shore it would have made things a lot more straightforward, but I expect the people round there never thought the bug would hit them like that.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:35am
  - Observer of Life
    
    I would be surprised if the PTPM EVER shows up at a 1pm Covid update ever again. She no longer needs the exposure.
    
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    October 23, 2020 2:39pm
- the deity formerly known as nigel6888
  
  Tut Tut, HK.
  
  We don’t need to any more.
  
  The fear mongering worked.
  
  Now we are in the “responsible, sensible” stage, soon to be followed by the “normalising and coming to terms” stage, and then we will be in the not mentioning it very much stage, and then by January, it will be old news.
  
  Get with the programme, St Cindy has saved us. We all live (well most of us do) Happily Ever After ™. The End.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:35am
- Classic Liberal
  
  Bloomfield lockdown lubing of the sheeple starts again.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:44am
- RJ
  
  Different cases, with the family they had no idea where it came from so didn’t know how spread it was in the community or who had come into contact with them. This one they know where it came from and it was caught quickly, they know everyone he was in contact with. But don’t worry if the pub has many cases I’m sure you’ll get your lockdown soon
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:58am
- yossarian
  
  Noticed now the election is done… suddenly there’s no need for Jacinda to appear every 1pm? Why now?
  
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  October 23, 2020 10:24am
  - sooty
    
    She’s gone back to been a part time PM!
    
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    October 23, 2020 1:10pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  If you think that the standard message has a secret meaning you’re in a bad way:
  
  “Yet yesterday, in his 15 minute update Bloomfield told us to use the Covid tracer app numerous time, to wash our hands numerous times, to get tested numerous times and to stay home if we felt unwell.”
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:11am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    And what Bloomfield didn’t say was:
    
    1) He LOVES being on tellie.
    2) His salary.
    3) His special privelages both nationally and internationally.
    4) His personal investments in biomedics.
    5) Excess deaths.
    6) Flu and cold deaths over the last 10 years.
    7) Death caused by lockdowns.
    8) Deaths caused by covid fear stress.
    9) Deaths from postponed medical treatment.
    10) Deaths from being a poorer country.
    
    And this is just off the top of my head!
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:48am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Well Brian, I hope you feel safe now. Just to reassure us all that our concerned nannies (Ardern, Bloomfield and Hipkins) have our best interests at heart, in the past hour we’ve all been receiving messages reminding us to use the Covid tracer app.
    
    The dishonest behaviour of the 3 nannies lends itself to the conspiracy theories of JLR. For whose benefit? Certainly not the NZ public.
    
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    October 23, 2020 3:46pm
Brian McDonald

From GD last night to pose the question of where are the herders now?
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-swedens-strategy-takes-a-turn-as-cases-spike/KP3SUPMIC7YZ5NQXEPTSIL63B4/
The only response was that flu and pneumonia result in approx 7 deaths a day. Covid is running at around 25.6.
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October 23, 2020 8:59am
- Cinematic
  
  Brian, is the Swedish health system coping?
  
  Admirably it seems.
  
  PS that is a hysterical article. Seems the majority of kiwis are hooked on hysteria. The new opium of the masses.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:47am
  - kowtow
    
    As a matter of interest , the UK Daily Telegraph ran a story the other day about ICU bed occupancy in two of the “worst hit” covid northern regions.
    
    Despite all the media hype and panic around the huge second wave the ICU’s in those 2 areas have fewer people in them currently than they did at this time last year.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:12am
    - Cinematic
      
      Yep. The 7 nightingale hospitals in the UK were never used. How can that be with such a vicious disease on the loose?
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:50pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Your comprehension is poor. For last 3 months Sweden has had (and continues to have) about 1-2 deaths a day on average from covid. Compared to about 7 a day average from normal flu and pneumonia and 250 a day from all causes. Covid is having almost no significant impact on Swedish life (or death) anymore.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:51am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    The figures were from your own post urbanneocolonialist on GD last night. Where you quoted the daily deaths from flu and pneumonia. I divided the total no of Covid deaths (5930) between March to now and divided by an approx number of days 231 = 25.6.
    
    By NZ population approx 12 people a day dying.
    
    Maybe you should go get a test. Or head off to Sweden.
    
    https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:25am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      That’s history – a sunk cost. What does initial stages and mistakes of epidemic (Sweden acknowledges mistakes made regarding rest homes) have to do with ongoing situation and decisions being made in Sweden now? Ongoing Covid deaths in Sweden are now at a level similar to NZ’s road deaths – an irrelevancy to people’s lives.
      
      With regards to NZ there are numerous effective propylactic drugs to dramatically reduce mortality compared to 6 months back (hydroxychloroquine, ivermectin, Vitamin D, nitazoxanide) to further drop the already tiny mortality (sweden 0.06% of population dead of covid, ~1% die in a normal year). With a carefully administered system of careful minimal viral load innoculation administered to least at risk 60% of NZ population (healthy <50 yr olds) the overall death toll would be in low 100's, similar to normal deaths for that age group in 1-2months, to give effective herd immunity for NZ, rather than waiting who knows how long for a vaccine that might never arrive at a cumulative cost of up to 100 billion dollars in economic damage.
      
      It is a very simple choice for any possessed of a modicum of rationality, the true damage of covid is in the massive political over-reaction, laying waste to economies and career prospects of young, and exacerbated by failure to employ obvious mitigation measures (as above) to minimize deaths.
      
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      October 23, 2020 12:18pm
    - rangitoto
      
      The daily deaths graph on that site show the current deaths per day assigned to convid is pretty much background noise level. Most likely lower than the usual deaths you would get from pneumonia as a complication of the common cold. If we didn’t already know about this virus and have test for it, Sweden would be noticing nothing unusual right now.
      
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      October 23, 2020 2:06pm
- Aliog
  
  I’m sure that global expert Phil Best will be along shortly shouting fake news, and giving us the benefit of his latest ‘wisdom’.
  
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  October 23, 2020 10:45am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    philbest, kk and cmm are working on a public statement from a ‘special retreat’ where people wear white coats. Apparently it details the need for tin foil hats, JLR and Advance NZ.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:28am
    - Cinematic
      
      Mesmerised by a media driven global pandemic Brian fumbles around for his keyboard, desperate to settle a few scores…
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:55pm
hullkiwi

Does anyone know what Matthew Hooton wants from National? Again today, he has got an opinion piece in the Horrid. Ordinarily, I would say criticism of people and the party should be behind close doors, but Hooton can’t seem to help himself. So, I’ll say it here and for those that ascribe to the factions.

It is now time that the 3 Auckland cliques of the National Party appreciate the damage they have done to the National brand, how unrepresentative they are of the National Party outside of Auckland, and they need to work out between themselves do they want permanent opposition or do they want a representative centre/right party that can win back the Treasury benches?

The 3 cliques are:
1. The Sue Woods clique of Remuera/Epsom/Tamaki/One Tree Hill – they have always believed they are the National Party – they are not!;
2. The Slater group – the aggrieved mob; and
3. The Boag mob – Auckland Central centric, and too Machiavellian for their own or the National Party’s own good mob.

Until these groups learn to accept they are part of the problem, rather than the solution, the National brand will continue to be undermined. To those who ascribe to these factions, sort your ***t, because National supporters in the provinces don’t care how important you think you are.
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October 23, 2020 9:13am
- RJ
  
  The Slater group Has nothing to do with national, that beached whale has for a long time been having wet dreams of hurting national.
  
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  October 23, 2020 10:14am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Not quite RJ, there is still a group who are clustered together and who were supports of Cam Slater’s father John, the ex-President. Cam Slater ascribes to this group. They are not what they were, but they still exist.
    
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    October 23, 2020 10:36am
- DeepBlue
  
  Hooten makes his money by being in the paper – he needs to say controversial things to keep his clicks up. No matter what National does, until they are popular again, he will keep kicking them with his opinions.
  
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  October 23, 2020 12:34pm
- chukar
  
  Yeah,no regard for the South Island though is there?
  No wonder the map is red
  
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  October 23, 2020 7:44pm
Martin Williams

I remember post after post here from 2008 – 2016 about how Labour had lost touch with Waitakere Man, the worker. They’d been infiltrated by urban academics and had forgotten what they stood for, so the story went.

Now it seems National has lost touch with the rural community. National have been infiltrated by the religious right and have been obsessed with vote-capture and fundraising at the expense of policy.
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October 23, 2020 9:16am
- hullkiwi
  
  MW, you lost it when you said the “religious right”. That single sentence shows how little you know about the National Party, or for that matter provincial NZ.
  
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  October 23, 2020 10:20am
- Aunty
  
  I have commented previously as well about the capture of the National Party by the religious right and my concerns that this would render the Party out of touch with and unrepresentative of the community at large.
  
  I hate saying I told you so, but I told you so!
  
  I mean my god, even the Pope has moved on, on the issue of gay relationships. Like wake up and smell the freakin coffee!
  
  It is an issue the party is going to have to address over the next 3 years.
  
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  October 23, 2020 10:25am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Aunty, other than a few Catholics who came to the fore in the “End of Life” debate, who are the “religious right” inside National you refer to?
    
    Yes, National does need to reconnect to the provinces, but this is nothing to do with religious zealots, but more to do with the party being controlled by Aucklanders, and not listening to its provincial support.
    
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    October 23, 2020 10:43am
    - kowtow
      
      Yep this is a slander that Hooton and other “in the know” commenters ( election night coverage TV3 panel ,snicker snicker) have been throwing around .
      
      Sounds to me like dirty politics , innuendo , white anting with no evidence.
      
      So they can put up or shut up.
      
      BTW , no comment on the “religious left” allowed , we get tonnes of native spirituality foisted on us with nary a secular eye lid being batted……..
      
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      October 23, 2020 11:08am
  - Martin Williams
    
    Mate, the entirety of East Auckland is dominated by:
    
    Simian Brown
    Simon O’Conner
    Chris Luxton
    
    The three of them complete right wing religious nut jobs. Even Judith Collins tried to get in on the action late in the campaign. That stunt probably lost her 5% on its own.
    
    Ordinary people, even farming people, reject this stuff outright.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:43am
    - Flossie
      
      hemm…that’s “Luxon”..
      
      9 2
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      October 23, 2020 12:16pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      The man’s name is Luxon.
      Idiot.
      
      12 2
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      October 23, 2020 12:22pm
      - Swifty
        
        Martin doesn’t even debate their words or policies – he just throws labels at them “right wing religious nutjobs…”
        
        It’s an odd thing about many on the left – they seem unable or unwilling to debate; they’d rather just throw shit and call people names.
        
        A pity.
        
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        October 23, 2020 12:45pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Calling Simeone Brown a monkey is racist.
      That is hate speech and under Andy’s future law you may go to jail for that.
      You should probably learn to pull your head in on racist insults before you get in serious trouble.
      
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      October 23, 2020 1:10pm
      - Martin Williams
        
        Auto correct, what can I say?
        
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        October 23, 2020 6:11pm
  - kowtow
    
    I mean my god, even the Pope has moved on,
    
    He’s lost his marbles , if he ever had any.Just undermined 2000 yrs of Christian teaching and tradition.
    
    7 2
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    October 23, 2020 1:06pm
    - Nermal
      
      Next step will be to allow priests to have civil marriages. Got to stop the kiddie fiddlers somehow
      
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      October 23, 2020 5:10pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Very few churches still up and running in rural communities these days, Martin Williams. Most are shut down and building assets sold off.
  Even in the reasonably sized provincial town here, the Catholic Church cannot provide priests or nuns.
  The church building needs considerable strengthening work done on it which neither the church nor the parishioners can fund.
  Also, existing congregations in most “mainstream” churches tend to be elderly. A big part of it for the people I know who are church goers is being part of a group who look out for each other and help counter loneliness rather than religious teachings. You know- “be kind”.
  Few weddings and funerals now take place in churches either.
  Might be different for Pacifica Churches though – but I imagine that would be OK because they maybe don’t generally vote National?
  
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  October 23, 2020 4:27pm
theoldbloke

Why do the media bang on about cases. It is a rather meaningless statistic. With the so called second wave critical care and mortality rates are waaaayyyy down. And just a small fact check. The swedes are NOT in lockdown or going to lockdown.
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October 23, 2020 9:17am
- Jules99
  
  There are not enough deaths to convince the population that destroying their livelihoods is worth it, so it’s bait and switch. Deaths/cases are presented as the same thing.
  
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  October 23, 2020 3:59pm
Captain Mainwaring

Those kiwibloggers who enjoy the freedom of driving a nice car are about to face the reality of living in a Green world.
The Greens have infested the ranks of the NZ Transport Agency (I refuse to use the stupid Maori name it now goes by) and they’ve declared war on the existing open road speed limit.
SH1 Turangi to Taupo airport is now 80 km/h, SH5 Napier-Taupo will be next and SH2 Featherston-Masterton is also on the agenda. There are many others that haven’t made the news.
I predict that within 12 months the only 100 km/h limits remaining will be dual-carriageway motorways.
Time for civil disobedience I say.
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October 23, 2020 9:26am
- hullkiwi
  
  With the disarray amongst the board of NZTA over the past 3 years, JAG managed to stuff the Board with some of her associate friends. So sorry, expect more woke stupidity from NZTA over the coming years.
  
  I work in the transport sector, I know how dysfunctional NZTA is currently. This is because the board of NZTA is “political and ideological” rather than appreciating the strategic transport needs of NZ & its provinces. So sadly, a safe bet will be that Auckland’s LRT will get the nod, despite there not being a single substantive reason why such a scheme should even be up for consideration.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:37am
- RJ
  
  Ah it’s gone by Waka Kotahi for quite a long time
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:45am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Who gives a flying fuck? I call it NZTA. And TV3’s weather lady (who I used to like) can’t get the word ‘Otipoti’ out of her head.
    
    24 2
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    October 23, 2020 10:17am
    - RJ
      
      Obviously you do, you are the one whinging about it. Most people just don’t care what it goes by
      
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      October 23, 2020 10:28am
      - Yabster
        
        if people don’t care why change it? a name that has to then followed by the transport agency or NZTA as most kiwis don’t know “or care” about the maori name – same for Housing NZ…. next it will be bloody Aotearoa… which up until the late 1800’s meant the North island and was only used by Tainui iwi.
        
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        October 23, 2020 11:36am
    - Mike
      
      Show us on the doll where the te reo hurt you.
      
      7 18
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      October 23, 2020 11:15am
      - RJ
        
        No need, he’s obviously butt hurt
        
        4 14
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        October 23, 2020 11:26am
      - JimBobJoe
        
        Te Reo… 10s and 10s of millions spent on it and still very few speak it… And most kiwis dont care about it
        
        So lefties in the civil service just inflict it on us…..
        
        Thats what I like about the Left… The people always get what the Left want…
        
        Cant fault the consistently authoritarian way the Left behave…
        
        Is your lovers pet name for you Squealer or Napolean?
        
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        October 23, 2020 1:43pm
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    about six months actually.
    
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    October 23, 2020 12:13pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Who cares? It’s NZTA to those who pay for it’s F_ups. IMO, it needs a bloody big broom put through the outfit (sack all the leftie political appointment) and start again with the proviso of NO MORE CYCLE WAYS!
    
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    October 23, 2020 1:12pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Well said Nickc2.
      
      4 1
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      October 23, 2020 1:22pm
  - miltonF
    
    What does kotahi mean? I know waka means boat…why is the NZTA now called “boat kotahi”?? Clearly Maori is not developed enough to be used as a national language. There isn’t even a dedicated word for car! There aren’t enough fluid speakers of Maori in NZ to be an offical language. More people can fluently speak mandarin. More non Maori can speak Maori than Maori can themselves. It’s a dead language.
    
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    October 23, 2020 8:22pm
    - ByGolly
      
      With too many words appropriated from English.. It’s a joke.
      
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      October 27, 2020 12:18am
- Deagle
  
  I recall seeing a study from the states that drivers will generally drive at a speed that is comfortable and safe for the road.
  
  Which is what infuriates me about arbitrary speed limit reductions. Imposing a 80 km/h speed limit on a road designed for 100 km/h, without making any physical changes to the road is just setting people up to receive a ticket.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:50am
- Deagle
  
  Also if I can’t enjoy driving fast, then I’ll enjoy driving slow. I’ll sell the sports car and burn coal with a heavy 4wd with the lift-kit and mud tyres.
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:53am
  - the deity formerly known as nigel6888
    
    the 6.5 diesel in the Humvee was fun
    
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    October 23, 2020 12:14pm
  - sooty
    
    Along with an oil injection into the exhaust on the LH side for cyclists!
    
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    October 23, 2020 1:17pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  JAG was pushing for 90 percent of open road speed limits to be reduced from 100 to 80.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/391361/huge-majority-of-nzers-would-prefer-lower-speeds-on-some-roads-genter
  
  I am totally skeptical that a “huge majority” of people would support this. But given the current political environment it would not surprise me either if they went with this. Imagibe driving at 80 kmh on those long Canterbury and Central Otago roads. It is bad enough trying to stick to 100 kmh 🙁
  
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  October 23, 2020 9:58am
  - Mike22240
    
    I would question the evidence base for such a change too. How many deaths happen at 100km/h? I suspect most of the deaths will be at much higher speeds/poor car control choices or have factors like drugs, fatigue or poorly maintained vehicles.
    
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    October 23, 2020 11:08am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      If you are on the road for 25% longer (at 80km/hr vs 100) then you will pass 25% more cars going in the opposite direction. More driver fatigue and inattention, and 25% more chance of a head-on crash – the biggest killer as far as I am aware.
      
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      October 23, 2020 3:29pm
      - Mike22240
        
        What you are saying makes a lot of sense at face value. I just wish I could find the report verifying it on NZTA’s website because I suspect it the 25% chance of head on collision varies depending on the part of the road one is on and could be reduced by having barriers on specific parts of the road in a way that speed limits will not achieve. I don’t know what the damage difference is at 80km compared to 100km but I’m sure 80 can still kill head on or at least permanently injure.
        
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        October 24, 2020 12:18am
- godruelf
  
  I hope there are more Headlamp flashers to warn of the Revenue Gatherers
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:10am
  - Deagle
    
    Does anyone do that anymore? I see that so rarely now.
    
    3 1
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    October 23, 2020 11:35am
    - Mike22240
      
      I still do it but don’t see it around as much.
      
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      October 24, 2020 12:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The respect for the rule of law has gone out the window. NZ transport staff have no right to set speed limits based on Grrrrn thinking.
  
  IRD have gone aggro too: computers are now imposing penalties which is the discretionary right of the Commissioner. A mandatory penalty is no exercise of any such discretion.
  
  Ihumatao will turn into sepsis if the wound is allowed to continue. Why bother with an election if the Govt ignores the Statute Books and encourages others to break the law? Who will arrest the Police for abandoning their sworn oaths of Office? Who else is not at risk when a registered land title can be converted by any rampant activist as they please? That entry in the land registry is one of the most important we have as that created our rights of occupancy to our homes. Any govt that does not recognise that is fit only for the dungheap.
  
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  October 23, 2020 12:09pm
Prince

Someone is in serious trouble at RadioNZ.
Corin Dann finds himself unexpectedly interviewing two right-leaning Trump-friendly correspondents from the States. Dann grows increasingly incredulous, then impatient as they both support Trump’s attacks on Biden. Whoever allowed one, let alone two US reporters supporting Trump is getting a ‘please explain’ memo.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/audio/player?audio_id=2018769672
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October 23, 2020 10:25am
- rangitoto
  
  I had to laugh yesterday evening when a presenter on Pravda 1 tried to spin the Iran government supporting Biden as being a disaster for Trump.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:01am
- zulumonster
  
  Very obviously points out the organisations the two correspondents represent are “right leaning” – and their perspectives are “interesting”.
  I don’t ever recall presenters taking pains to point out when correspondents represent left leaning organisations / publications? Maybe we need to be told in case we get taken in by some wrong-think.
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:51am
- BeaB
  
  Hilarious to listen to. Surely some0ne checked to make sure they followed the Radio NZ anti-Trump line.
  
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  October 23, 2020 1:15pm
- Classic Liberal
  
  Wow, thanks Prince. I would have missed that.
  
  Awesome hearing Corin desperately twisting around to find any other explanation than left wing bias for the msm lack of reporting on the Biden clan dealings.
  
  How did this happen? Was someone playing a joke on Corin by recommending the contacts?
  
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  October 23, 2020 1:54pm
Swifty

I am initially surprised to see that the members of The Supreme Sikh Society see fit to continue to have as their president a man convicted of voter fraud and found guilty by his professional association of an immigration job-selling scam:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/tarana/300134353/sikh-society-wins-prestigious-award-for-service-to-communityhttps://www.stuff.co.nz/tarana/300134353/sikh-society-wins-prestigious-award-for-service-to-community

But then I remember that The Supreme Sikh Society is only one organisation claiming to represent Sikh’s in NZ (and not the main nor oldest one) and one that I understand Mr Singh set up himself!

This man has been proven to have participated in multiple corrupt practices in New Zealand including within our election system, and has encouraged others to do so and so I therefore assume that anyone associated with The Supreme Sikh Society is entirely fine with having a corrupt person as their leader.

What does that say about them?

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/labour-candidate-sentenced-over-electoral-fraud/5HDX5JMPN7CUKI3LUCFOF4MWHE/

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/313331/election-fraudster-investigated-over-job-selling

(And what the hell does Matt Robson think he’s doing?)
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October 23, 2020 11:36am
- Swifty
  
  Kicked out as an immigration adviser:
  
  https://iaa.ewr.govt.nz/PublicRegister/View.aspx?search=1&p=1&adviserNumber=200902091
  
  Minister recommends kicking him out as a JP:
  
  https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/convicted-justice-peace-be-removed
  
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  October 23, 2020 11:46am
- kowtow
  
  Slightly O/T.
  
  Recently read a comment that our liquor store industry is more about selling visas than selling liquor.
  
  And while the Media Pardy do cover the wide ranging and relatively common incidences of worker abuse in the NZ hosp. industry it doesn’t bang on relentlessly about it , like they do about Trump or climate change for example.
  
  Something very rotten in the state of Aotearoa.
  
  6 2
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  October 23, 2020 12:38pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZXcuBpPuMU

Putin May Not Help Xi Against the Quad.

Australias invite to take part in the Malabar exercise has annoyed the CCP.
They hope Putin will help them. Putin is not interested. The Global Times
are critical of Putins positive relationship with India. There are BRI roadblocks
at every corner. Putin, and Modi have a good relationship. It’s an alternative market.
They have exercised together. They are selling S400s to India. Russia has never
Spoken against the Quad. Maybe, they’d like to join later.
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October 23, 2020 11:48am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECbG6uk910w
CCP Invasion of Taiwan?

They’ve been sending war planes every time US diplomats visit.
They want to re-take Taiwan by 2020. But the US is now a reliable ally.
Their window of opportunity is closing. The sea states from now on
are unfavourable until late March 2021. With the HK crackdown,
things are more dangerous for Taiwan. CCP commitments can’t be
believed.
6 2
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October 23, 2020 11:48am
I remember when

“No, No, No, No, No, No, I don’t want to go there!”
Why did Tova get into such a state when Jamie-Lee Ross tried to answer the “conspiracy theory” question she had just asked him.
Not the answer she wanted!
Scared he might (might) offer an alternative thought on the approach to covid-19.
Mustn’t fall out with the followers!
5 4
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October 23, 2020 12:39pm
- RichardX
  
  I remember when
  
  “No, No, No, No, No, No, I don’t want to go there!”
  Why did Tova get into such a state when Jamie-Lee Ross tried to answer the “conspiracy theory” question she had just asked him.
  Not the answer she wanted!
  Scared he might (might) offer an alternative thought on the approach to covid-19.
  Mustn’t fall out with the followers!
  
  OCTOBER 23, 2020 12:39PM
  
  Did you pay any attention to the crap upon which his party campaigned?
  
  They claimed loud and often that Covid was man made and triggered by 5G.
  
  Do you think that really warranted repeating?
  
  4 1
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  October 23, 2020 2:06pm
  - Mike22240
    
    Thanks Richard, there are many legitimate criticisms of the Govts response to Covid but Jamie Lee-Ross wasn’t putting them out there.
    
    0 0
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    October 24, 2020 12:25am
Aunty

https://www.change.org/p/her-excellency-the-right-honourable-dame-patsy-reddy-remove-and-or-prevent-ricardo-men%C3%A9ndez-march-from-entering-office-as-an-mp?recruiter=877662091&utm_source=share_petition&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=psf_combo_share_abi&utm_term=psf_combo_share_initial&recruited_by_id=c6b85b80-606e-11e8-9c98-13ceeb646433

For anyone who might be interested in signing, a petition to prevent Ricardo Menendez Marsh from entering Parliament for expressing unNew Zealand sentiments.
14 3
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October 23, 2020 12:54pm
- Nickc2
  
  Fn low life hypocrite. He will still accept a taxpayer-funded stipend though!
  
  9 3
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  October 23, 2020 1:27pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  He will have to swear or affirm his allegiance to QE2, her heirs & successors whether he likes it or not if he wants to be an MP.
  
  https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/features/first-words-when-an-mp-is-sworn-in/
  
  10 1
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  October 23, 2020 2:27pm
- BeaB
  
  I love having him there. When James Shaw starts to sound reasonable we only need look at Ricardo to remind ourselves how whacky the Greens can be.
  
  14 2
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  October 23, 2020 3:23pm
  - jon
    
    This Ricardo Menendez would surely have had to swear an oath to H.M. when he obtained citizenship..given he has obviously changed his mind on giving the same oath to the Queen as an MP he has clearly broken the earlier oath and thus his citizenship should be revoked.
    
    1 0
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    October 23, 2020 6:27pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  There is no authority to whom a petition could be addressed that can prevent an elected MP from taking office.
  
  4 0
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  October 23, 2020 3:59pm
- Gravelroad
  
  The guy is an immature attention seeker with an anti opinion on everything except his own sense of self worth.
  Not worth bothering about.
  
  7 4
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  October 23, 2020 4:04pm
- curry4me
  
  Aunty: Done. Thanks for sharing the petition.
  
  1 0
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  October 23, 2020 6:02pm
- Martin Williams
  
  Ricardo Menendez March is 10 times the Kiwi you will ever be.
  
  1 7
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  October 23, 2020 6:08pm
  - lifesgood
    
    You what? Are you OK, Martin?
    
    0 0
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    October 23, 2020 8:31pm
I remember when

Bain murders.
How many youths put their own clothes in the washing machine?
11 3
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October 23, 2020 1:59pm
- Unity
  
  Given that his mother was obviously not a good housekeeper perhaps it’s not surprising that he did his own washing. Just saying ….
  
  3 0
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  October 23, 2020 4:32pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  I did the washing (and cooking) for our house (Mum & Sis) from when I was 12 after dad scarpered. When I left home at 17 I did my washing in student accommodation and then the flat twice a week whether it needed it or not 🙂 so no, doing your own washing is not some weird outlier indicator of homicidal intent, nor necessarily being a forensic ‘cleaner…’
  
  3 0
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  October 23, 2020 5:21pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Twenty-two year-olds are not youths, they’re (young) men.
  
  4 3
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  October 23, 2020 6:20pm
  - All_on_Red
    
    Thanks for that Karen
    #Pedant
    
    1 1
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    October 23, 2020 7:51pm
    - Mike
      
      LOL
      
      1 0
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      October 23, 2020 8:07pm
I remember when

Is getting Trump v Biden in the US Presidential Elections – a bit like winning the booby prize in the local pub raffle
4 3
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October 23, 2020 2:03pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Tagline from a movie some years back; “no matter who wins we lose.”
  
  2 2
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  October 23, 2020 4:00pm
- kowtow
  
  Despite all the TDS , Trump is for the American worker and about time an American Pres stood up for American rights.
  
  3 3
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  October 23, 2020 4:18pm
Fletch

Trump is smashing Biden with the email thing right now.
11 4
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October 23, 2020 2:34pm
- jon
  
  And NOTE..our medias virtual non reporting of this email development this afternoon..imagine had it involved Trump it would be featured as breaking news across the NZ Herald online page..little wonder i m ditching my premium account with that biased newspaper.
  
  2 1
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  October 23, 2020 6:37pm
Than

So, 30 minutes into the first US Presidential debate. And freely admitting myself to be a strongly anti-Trump TDS sufferer…

Dear God, could Trump be having a worse night.
4 18
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October 23, 2020 2:34pm
- Fletch
  
  Trump is handling himself very well. It’s a real heavyweight match.
  
  12 5
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  October 23, 2020 3:17pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

“I have not taken a penny from any foreign source in my life”
Well Joe, that means you stole your wealth from the American people. We all know that money does NOT grow on trees
17 3
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October 23, 2020 3:09pm
- MCos
  
  Do you know how much Biden is worth?
  Here’s an article on the subject. There’s probably others with different numbers. Who knows?
  https://www.townandcountrymag.com/society/politics/a31265187/joe-biden-net-worth/
  
  0 0
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  October 23, 2020 9:34pm
Inandout

TDS even reaches the ancient citizens, and she is from Minnesota, such a place for rioting:
‘$500 million; 1,500 property locations; 150 buildings set on fire’
Obviously this old duck was in a safe location.
https://trends.gab.com/trend-feed/5f922b1057321424505f8fb1
6 2
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October 23, 2020 3:15pm
ex-golfer

Once again we have a migrant come to New Zealand, proceed to slag off everything this country does for people, gets (s)elected to Parliament on the Greens list and doesn’t want to pledge allegiance to our head of State, the Queen.
Well, Ricardo double-name, feel free to relinquish your large Parliamentary salary if you don’t want to abide by our system of Government – and while you are at it piss off back to Mexico and fix the problems in your country of birth instead.
26 1
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October 23, 2020 3:29pm
- jon
  
  No wonder Trump was so intent on building that southern wall!!
  
  3 2
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  October 23, 2020 6:39pm
Littletramp

Joe Biden today, “we are going to create millions of jobs in the solar & wind energy field and they pay good prevailing wages”. huh – prevailing wages from wind energy generation? Would the solar jobs offer scorching wages?
15 0
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October 23, 2020 3:30pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Nuclear power plants offer radiant wages.
  Hydroelectric dams offer floods of wages.
  Coalmines offer dirty wages.
  
  6 3
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  October 23, 2020 3:51pm
  - Harriet
    
    Public departments offer public money.
    
    4 1
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    October 23, 2020 6:48pm
    - Mike
      
      What an amazing insight.
      
      1 0
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      October 23, 2020 8:08pm
Fletch

It’s over. A much better debate than last time. Each got their shots in. I was worried about the moderator to begin with (she is very liberal if you look at her past) but she did very well, also.
Trump was very good when he kept on asking whose laptop it was. Biden couldn’t respond because knows damn well it is his son’s.
7 4
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October 23, 2020 3:39pm
rangitoto

Easy win for Trump in the debate.
9 5
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October 23, 2020 3:41pm
chiz

James Randi has died.
2 0
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October 23, 2020 3:42pm
I remember when

RichardX 2.06pm
What earthly reason would I have for being aware of any Advance NZ policies.
However, I am aware of the 5G theories being part of their election material.
Have no reason to believe man-made covid theories but not sure it is a total no-go. Will let people a lot cleverer than I am decide if any truth.
My point was that she asked the question and I thought it would be interesting see what his answer would be.
1 2
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October 23, 2020 3:49pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

American blog on Jaspinda.
https://americanpowerblog.blogspot.com/2020/10/new-zealand-prime-minister-jacinda.html?
4 3
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October 23, 2020 4:18pm
- Martin Williams
  
  I clicked on that. It said nothing and had zero comments.
  
  What is your point?
  
  3 3
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  October 23, 2020 6:06pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Maybe you got trolled?
    
    0 0
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    October 24, 2020 8:53am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Never forget you stupid people, this is what you voted for:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
10 3
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October 23, 2020 4:24pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  Yeah if that had been a Nat or an ACTor would be playing all way. NZ’s main tax-finded media outlets are whores’ inlets.
  
  2 2
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  October 23, 2020 5:23pm
waripori

I have not seen the US presidential debate but have followed the live reporting on 538 and Politico. Consensus seems to be Trump was much better on style than the first go round and overall there was more substance because there was less yelling. Not likely to change much and both sides will claim a win.

The thing that stands out to me was GOP and many here were counting on Biden proving he is senile because he would not be able to maintain a grasp of facts and policy over 90 minutes faced with Trump’s combative style. That has not happened and Republicans will be happy to claim a fairly traditional debate win if that. Considering they set the bar for Biden so low the debates will be a major disappointment for team Trump.
7 3
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October 23, 2020 4:43pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden: “I don’t look at things like Trump, we’re not red states and blue states, we’re the United States”

Pause,
Biden: “When you look at the States that have spikes Corona Virus, they’re red states”
Seriously? His teleprompter told him that?
9 4
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October 23, 2020 4:44pm
- jon
  
  Yea that double banger named TV One US correspondent tonite told us that the most Covid deaths have been in Republican run states..of course it wouldnt suit her anti Trump narrative to say that Demorat run New York has had appalling number of fatalities too.
  
  3 1
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  October 23, 2020 6:53pm
  - Mike
    
    Both sides, huh?
    
    1 2
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    October 23, 2020 8:09pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    40% of all US Covid deaths are from rest homes in 5 Dem states.
    
    3 1
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    October 23, 2020 8:30pm
  - miltonF
    
    My thoughts are similar. When I looked into this a few months ago, the top three states for deaths were New York, California and Illinois. All heavily populated democratic states. So large in fact, that the deaths in just these three states alone exceeded the rest of the top 10 states, combined. Maybe things have changed since then.
    
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    October 23, 2020 9:25pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Heavily populated is the key. It might be expected that a highly infectious disease would be harder to control in more densely populated areas.
      
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      October 24, 2020 6:59am
Critical Thinker

President Trump just destroyed the insanely corrupt Joe “Big Guy” Biden in the debate ??
https://youtu.be/JHXO92Apaqk

Tomorrow Tony Bobulinski will meet with US Senators in Washington DC!
Bobulinski will turn over evidence to the Senate committee.

Bobulinki has three phones filled with evidence he will present to the committee.

“In my hour long meeting with Joe Biden we discussed Biden family business dealings with the Chinese, with which he was plainly familiar.” – Tony Bobulinski
https://youtu.be/O2JEOo2nhnc

Nothing can stop what is coming.
Enjoy the show.
??
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October 23, 2020 4:49pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  BREAKING:
  New Emails from Biden’s Brother Show Barack Obama Was In On It ?
  
  “You need to call me now. Just got off the phone with your father. He is meeting with the O!! Some outrageous acquisitions!! We have the two biggest days of our business life in front of us!!!!” – James Biden to Hunter Biden.
  https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/10/huge-breaking-new-emails-bidens-brother-show-barack-obama/
  
  8 4
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  October 23, 2020 4:54pm
rangitoto

Who was the prat who was on for Ryan Bridge on Magic? I switched over to HDPA for the drive home.
1 1
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October 23, 2020 7:01pm
- JulieBabe
  
  Roman Travers?
  
  0 0
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  October 24, 2020 9:30am
Fletch

In the debate, in response to Biden saying he wasn’t against fracking, Trump said he would post a clip of Biden saying on video that he would end fracking.
Well, Trump did post it as promised, and it shows multiple instances of Biden and Harris saying just that –

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1319466667676749824
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October 23, 2020 9:09pm
Fletch

One of the most astounding moments, I thought, was when Trump looked at Biden and said, I ran because of you. You and Obama. If I thought you were doing a good job I wouldn’t have run.

“You know, Joe, I ran because of you,” Trump declared. “I ran because of Barack Obama, because you did a poor job. If I thought you did a good job, I would’ve never run. I would’ve never run. I ran because of you.”

“I’m looking at you now, you’re a politician. I ran because of you,” Trump reiterated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2mP0k1pPfg
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October 23, 2020 9:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  2015 I was in Alaska. Our friends there said exactly this about Trump. He was going to ‘drain the swamp’
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:59am
- JulieBabe
  
  yes that was brilliant
  Trump already had a job, he only wanted to run to make America great again!
  
  0 0
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  October 24, 2020 9:29am

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