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October 24, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 24 October 2020

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General Debate

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PhilBest

Good read on the psychology of the Pandemic

https://www.aier.org/article/superstition-in-the-pigeon-can-lockdowns-really-stop-death/

There is no correlation between lockdown measures deployed and disease outcome because we are witnessing natural disease progression. Flu does not move in a purely predictable pattern, it is always more severe in one country or city than it is in the next. Attributing these outcomes to human agency — fewer infections means “we did good,” many infections means “we did bad” — is tantamount to attributing the sunrise to an effective sun dance.This is a reversion to superstition and mythology, a descent back into darkness.
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October 24, 2020 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  As I said again and again months ago: seeing covid-19 takes 3 to 8 weeks to actually kill people, deaths being “around 20” a few weeks into a lockdown, is “what was going to happen anyway”, not “a few hundred or a few thousand deaths averted because of lockdown”.
  
  Our sun dance was what caused the sun to rise. A brilliant analogy.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:03am
  - PhilBest
    
    And High Priestess Jacinda of the Sun Dance has the masses worshiping at her feet. Bye bye NZ economy, what is the next stage after banning oil and gas exploration, which alone should have got her thrown out on her ear for sabotage of our future. Even Venezuela cynically tried to build utopian socialism on a foundation of resource exploitation, how much faster can a nation slide into destruction if it imagines it can do this while leaving the resources in the ground?
    
    This is an agonizing time to live through, for anyone who still has a functioning intelligence.
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:08am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      The nutters are out, again.
      
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      October 24, 2020 8:14am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        It’s a strange world when Brian McDonald can accuse others of being nutters.
        
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        October 24, 2020 8:34am
      - Suze Wainwright
        
        Captain, it’s a symptom of our contemporary post-postmodern political zeitgeist
        
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        October 24, 2020 8:44am
      - GazzaW
        
        It’s good to see that they have given you a weekend leave pass again Brian. Don’t forget your meds.
        
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        October 24, 2020 9:16am
      - JackRabbit
        
        No need to announce you’ve been let out.
        
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        October 24, 2020 9:45am
      - crikey
        
        I admire your self-awareness.
        
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        October 24, 2020 10:52am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Sure is Captain. And when someone has to call themselves after a TV character and ‘act out’ on line.
      
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      October 24, 2020 8:43am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        But to be fair Advance NZ nearly got 1%.
        
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        October 24, 2020 8:44am
    - softail 1450
      
      PhilBest ,,,Come on you’re forgetting the pending greatest moment of 2021, the Princess Bride and the fisherman, now where have I heard that story before? oh no that’s right it was a virgin and a carpenter called Joseph, but hey the importance of the ceremony will be of equal standing in the eyes of the Jacinda addled of NZ.
      
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      October 24, 2020 12:29pm
- Chris R
  
  Exactly! It amazes me how so many are OK to retreat into superstition and voodoo in the 21st century. This silly behaviour can be found in those who pursue faddish diets, those who object to GMO foods and of course the climate change disciples. I recall an experiment in 1988 where some physics students deliberately hoaxed their local community somewhere in the USA that they had been abducted by alien life-forms (Not the NZ Green Party either!) When they admitted their hoax those who had fallen for it insisted that it wasn’t a hoax at all but rather the students had had their brains/thoughts interfered with by the openly non-existent aliens.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:17am
  - crikey
    
    You omitted calling up of the taniwha when no other reasoning will achieve the desired outcome.
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:54am
    - softail 1450
      
      crikey, I have a couple of family members who avoid talking to me because I stated ‘ A bloody Taniwha living in a mountain stream is just as believable as your god that lives in heaven and surrounds himself with half dressed female angels”
      At family gatherings my Mrs always warns me with the threat of death if I so much as mention it again, LOL.
      
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      October 24, 2020 12:36pm
- Dave Mann
  
  Thanks for the link Phil. One of the standouts for me in the article was early on here:
  
  Longstanding practical experience demonstrates that no matter what humans do, nature can always find a way — especially viruses. Case in point: in 1969, a group of twelve men overwintered in Antarctica. During the seventeenth week of perfect quarantine in complete isolation, one of them suddenly developed an upper respiratory tract infection described as “a mild to moderately severe cold.” Over the next two weeks, seven more men contracted the infection. This strange case was was studied and the results published in a British medical journal.
  
  The world has truly lost its senses.
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:55am
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy United Nations Day!
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October 24, 2020 8:01am
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  Defund the UN!
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:13am
  - pdm
    
    Can’t do that – Jacinda wants to work there away from the great unwashed and at the first sign of an election loss..
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:36am
    - sooty
      
      If we don’t have a UN, we would be stuck with her forever! At least we had a break of a few years before hulun came back to annoy us!
      
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      October 24, 2020 1:26pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Also a good time to remember the work of Peter Fraser, NZ prime minister 1940-49, who was one of the more influential statesman involved in the creation of the UN.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:29am
  - cmm
    
    C’mon. UN was really created long before then as the League of Nations in 1920.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:17am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The UN took over some of the institutions created by the League – ILO, World Court, WHO, etc.
      The United Nations name came from the 1942 declaration by the allied powers in WWII.
      
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      October 24, 2020 9:22am
      - Chris R
        
        The HUGE joke about the creation of the United Nations is that the USA representatives included Alger Hiss. Hiss was later exposed as a traitor for sharing state secrets (and I imagine UN secrets) with the USSR. He wrote an autobiography in the early 1980s insisting on his innocence but when the Berlin Wall fell and the USSR’s records later came to daylight there was hefty footprints revealing Hiss as a traitor. I believe he had died by this time…
        
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        October 24, 2020 9:56am
      - Mike
        
        Alger Hiss was exposed by the Venona Project decryption of Soviet cables, but that evidence could not be used publicly at the time. Another traitor exposed the same way was New Zealander Ian Milner, who defected to Czechoslovakia.
        
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        October 24, 2020 10:11am
      - FatTony
        
        “Alger Hiss just walked in with my secret pumpkin.”
        
        For the West Wing fans among us ?
        
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        October 24, 2020 10:22am
- Jimmy White
  
  Its also ‘Tripe Day’ and ‘Make a difference Day’
  So please Make a Difference today Mike by not talking Tripe.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:51am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Did you put in a good word for your hero Jaspinda?
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:03am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Who?
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:22am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Who indeed? The One who has cancelled the Police, despite their oaths, from acting against what she deems her business.
      A right down regular, regular Royal Queen.
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:12am
- RW Capitalist
  
  There hasn’t been a “happy” day cause by the UN since it’s inception.
  
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  October 24, 2020 12:13pm
JibberJabber

Number 11 on the Greens list is gutted to have missed out on becoming an MP.
https://twitter.com/DannyBlack44/status/1319480546183970816
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October 24, 2020 8:06am
NewInoffensiveName

Peace deal with Sudan in the news today. Progress on Libya reported too. A handfull of other Arab states, including Saudi, reported to be ready to board the peace train. Utterly unprecedented progress worthy of multiple Nobel prizes. Biden crime family in tatters. A historic red wave incoming which will sweep the Democrats from power. Watch for Spygate fallout which will engulf a number of Five Eyes governments, including our own. Good times.
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October 24, 2020 8:07am
artemisia

Are Wellington City Council staff incompetent? And if so, which heads are on the block? Or perhaps they have not quite caught up with the ‘no surprises’ rule. (Did I mention heads on blocks?)

The spatial (fix the housing crisis) plan went out for consultation even though the council staff knew quite a lot of the plan could not happen. Or should have known, since it is their day job.

“That was because the central Government’s National Policy Statement (NPS) on Urban Development had more power and effectively overrode any local body policy – which it was currently consulting the public on.”

‘Bolt from the blue’ revelation makes Wellington housing plan impotent ….Mayor Andy Foster confirmed the “curious” advice from council staff recently came in a brief conversation.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/123185229/bolt-from-the-blue-revelation-makes-wellington-housing-plan-impotent
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October 24, 2020 8:09am
- Apteryx
  
  According to this report, councillors were informed about the effect of the national policy statement “recently”, in “a brief conversation”.
  
  The national policy statement was consulted on between August and October 2019. The final statement was gazetted in July 2020. There has been quite a lot about it in the news media.
  
  Double fail: council staff for not factoring this in to the development of the plan and not briefing councillors, and councillors for not doing even a modicum of reading on one of the most important issues facing Wellington.
  
  https://www.mfe.govt.nz/about-national-policy-statement-urban-development
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Impotent housing plan? What do they use for Councillors?
  When they are already crowded out by geography with cars how are the going to fit in another 80K humans? We don’t have the Jetsons and their travel modes yet.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:52am
Lee C

https://youtu.be/sCGwjTWm2HU?t=190
This dude is claiming there was no actual covid virus ever detected or isolated!
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October 24, 2020 8:10am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Like your election result predictions.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:16am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Going by the down ticks Lee’s predictions must have been correct. Well actually they weren’t folks.
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:45am
  - Lee C
    
    Yup I can own that Brian, I got it totally wrong.
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:53am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Oh lookie, an honest ownership, unlike the shifty lefties. Good man
      
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      October 24, 2020 9:08am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Cheers Lee.
      
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      October 24, 2020 10:31am
Maggy Wassilieff

Whether Andrea Vance presents an accurate picture or not of National’s disarray, it is clear that the Nats have lost control of their media messages.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300137917/election-2020-the-complete-disarray-of-nationals-campaign-that-led-to-electoral-slaughter
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October 24, 2020 8:11am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Good article. Seems like National forgot that they needed to be a party rather than a gaggle of self-centred individuals.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:13am
  - herb1
    
    Mike , Labour MPs are smart enough to know that aside from Jacinda Karens image, they have nothing.
    National on the other hand have a number of capable and competent MPs who have yet to work out a bad plan well executed is better than a good plan not executed
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:53am
  - Tall Man
    
    Whereas labour may have the same issues but everyone is starved of exposure by a relatively compliant and supportive media.
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:08am
    - Martin Williams
      
      Boohoo. “It was the media!”
      
      No, it wasn’t.
      
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      October 24, 2020 10:57am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Yes…largely it was.
        If not…how come there were no article critical of Arderns “covid” responce?
        When there is an easy to find (on ministry of healths web site) “Pandemic Response Plan” c 2017
        Which show CLEARLY she did not go early or hard on the disease.
        
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        October 24, 2020 12:20pm
      - Tall Man
        
        Never said that. Please learn to read and comprehend rather than read and comment.
        
        I merely stated that labour also has issues with dickhesads but the media ignore it much of the time or certainly downplay it.
        
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        October 24, 2020 2:10pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    They didn’t forget–Labour forgot their manners and used the bribed media to deny them a platform. The also turned every imagined or irrelevant issue they could to attempt to show disarray and dissension. The good little COL all dutifully lined up under a COVID blanket of fear.
    
    Justice will bite them on the backside as they now have committed themselves to perform. They are going to have to get into the bearpit and dance with the bears. The stole what they cannot do: their reward can only be disgrace and to be thrown out office when public awareness turn to proper anger. I sill be surprised if they last another 12 months. That will finish the party off too. Ardern may not get her UN position after all.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:22am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      $125 million buys endless editorial support from media in a country as small as NZ. National has to figure out a way of restoring balance in NZ media. Carrot or stick.
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:26am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Sell all govt. owned media to private companies.
        
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        October 24, 2020 12:22pm
      - Boomer Bad
        
        The media bias discussion needs to be out in the open; not just in right wing blogs.
        What about challenging the Media Party to a public debate on the importance of the media for a strong democracy?
        
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        October 24, 2020 1:01pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        “Upon our election we will maintain existing funding for all media organizations and journalists that we evaluate as not being biased to left”. Carrot and Stick.
        
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        October 24, 2020 2:49pm
    - Nickc2
      
      I hope you are right Kev.
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:41am
- NewInoffensiveName
  
  Nats need to break free of CCP influence if they are ever to return to power.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:14am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Applies to Labour, too. Both heavily invested in the idea that the relationship with China is critical. Well, it is critical to the parties’ funds.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:25am
- SmokerGuy
  
  It’s a shocker! Collins simply cannot be leader next election and Brownlee is also on the chopping block for sure. I like Collins but she is just too much damaged goods and clearly hugely divisive within her own caucus. Whoever takes over has a massive task ahead of them.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:17am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Maybe they need a new leader with no baggage from the past.
    Might have to be Luxon. Everyone else is tainted.
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:52am
    - sooty
      
      That’s like making the new start at school on his first day the principal!
      
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      October 24, 2020 9:30am
    - Tall Man
      
      Definitely not.
      
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      October 24, 2020 10:06am
    - SmokerGuy
      
      I quite like Shane Reti, he’s not tainted and he speaks exceptionally well. I know he’s one of the more liberal members of the caucus but they need to appeal to the centre to win.
      
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      October 24, 2020 10:39am
  - artemisia
    
    Two words. Maggie Thatcher.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:07am
    - SGA
      
      Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but not only isn’t Thatcher a NZ citizen, she’s dead. Any other ideas?
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:15am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Let nature take its course–Ardern is the real tainted one. How many houses did she deliver previously?
    What was Taranaki’s fate?
    Why is Uhumatao still not free of activists?
    Any Govt that cannot control activists, close the Police down and steal land titles in NOT a govt at all but is coming for you to steal your rights and property.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:28am
- G152
  
  Since the fake news is ‘on side’ with the left what else can you expect ???
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:18am
  - DeepBlue
    
    MSM are going to hit a click bait wall soon. The Vance article is 1 of 3. As a Nat follower even I can’t be bothered reading media regurgitation re how many ways National messed up.
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:05am
- Benedict Yu
  
  If ACT performs really well this term and National remains in disarray it is plausible that ACT could become more influential than National. What you will see soon is the media turn on ACT.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:32am
  - Tall Man
    
    The media already has turned. Hand notes, gun owners and deportees have been the start.
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:05am
  - IC5000
    
    How influential will they be sitting on the opposition benches. The voting public have said what they want and it not national so why would they accept a party to the far right of national? How does your logic even work work?
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:37am
    - JibberJabber
      
      The ultimate irony of a NZ First voter bagging someone elses logic…
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:21am
      - IC5000
        
        NZF was always going to be a niche party. Just like the Green ACT. Do you have any idea how MMP works?
        
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        October 24, 2020 12:17pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Oh, I don’t know …… for the past few years it’s been all about them internally – infighting, personal egos gone mad, power for power’s sake, little interest in their supporters.
  I think their media messages have reflected that fine.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:36am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    He probably never will, but I’d like to hear the truth behind Hamish Walker’s fall from grace. As to how an ex-party president had so much confidence of the control she had over a junior MP she could get him to leak. When the answer is known to that question – National will finally be grappling with the correct problem.
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:50am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    What about the twyfordism of the Ardern R.’s govt.
    What can they deliver now they could not have delivered previously?
    COVID is recent–don’t forget the two year of do-nothing before that.
    This election seems to have been stolen by the incompetent to govern through bribery. No one would choose them based on performance.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:32am
- peterwn
  
  National was dependent on a hostile media for the delivery of its message. Moreover over the last several months, Jacinda had lots of taxpayer funded ‘uncensored’ microphone. The National leaders has limited microphone and that was often ‘censored’ by the media, eg the radio journo who turned the gain down while the interviewee was explaining something.
  So the media is blaming National for message issues when the real issue is an undemocratic media.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:39am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Yes, peterwn there is probably truth in what you say.
    The star struck media worked overtime to get their desired result – and nobody put the brakes on them.
    So much for all those pious adverts about making your complaint to the Broadcasting Standards authority.
    But, it is typical head in the sand stuff to keep blaming the media for the obvious lack of standards within the National Party parliamentary group.
    Too many ego driven personal agendas- not enough care for their constituents.
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:56am
    - TWEEDSE
      
      Surely it is the nature of politics that it attracts people with big egos. And you need a big ego to create the thick skin required.
      
      Look at the egos in labour, Ardern, Twyford, the minister of pandemic cycling. And of course the biggest ego of all Winston.
      
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      October 24, 2020 9:17am
      - Tall Man
        
        ardern definitely doesn’t have a thick skin, she needs all the protection she can get.
        
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        October 24, 2020 10:03am
  - bruceavon
    
    This victimhood idea here, its everyone else’s fault that National lost doesn’t work for me. The media is what it is, John Key got it to work for him. But this loss, especially with the magnitude of the defeat, cannot simply be blamed on the media. And if National doesn’t own up to the mistakes and learn and change things, they will be defeated next time as well.
    
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    October 24, 2020 8:56am
    - Tall Man
      
      A bit harsh. There is a lot that National needs to own but the bias of the media has been a very hard problem to deal with and they haven’t gotten it right yet.
      
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      October 24, 2020 10:02am
      - bruceavon
        
        No. I am not saying that. The media is biased, it’s not about to change, no use complaint complaint about it endlessly and blaming it for everything. My concern is the excuses coming out from Judith indicates to me they aren’t going to own the part of the loss that was down to National. And we will just lose again. They need to get some young people involved with the way they handle media. Especially social media, and use the media either the hostile side or sympathetic more cleverly.
        
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        October 24, 2020 12:14pm
  - Unity
    
    I totally agree with you peterwn. Jacinda had the media fawning all over her. She could do no wrong. All articles put extra gloss on her whereas with National they were always shown in a negative light even though there were many positives that could have been highlighted and reported on. The media is an absolute disgrace and have far too much influence but I don’t know what can be done about that. Perhaps they should be defunded but that could have all sorts of repercussions.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:17am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      The best option would be to have a centrist media company in competition with all the left leaning ones. Market forces would then quickly fix the problem (as NZ population is to right of media, they would flock to a more balanced option). But it would need $10’s of millions to make that happen.
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:30am
      - Unity
        
        Good idea but how would we get them to be more centrist in their comments, e.g. report fairly?
        
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        October 24, 2020 12:57pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Now, Ardern has been delivered up to perform. How can NZ sustain another 3 years like the last? Even worse, the coming year or so with the global outworking of the economic impact of COVID, is going to be impossible for this amateur govt to manage.
      They revel in their own self belief but have no justification. A scary 1pm TV show is not sufficient. Homes not holograms.
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:39am
    - Paulus
      
      TVNZ till showing media bias against National by inane comments.
      
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      October 24, 2020 1:16pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  $50M ensures that.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:52am
  - Tall Man
    
    To be fair, these twitterati adopt the position that they believe is the most trendy and ardern is trendy
    
    It shows that many have the intellectual capacity of the dead rats that “what’s in it for wynston” made the greens eat during the past 3 years.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:59am
  - Paulus
    
    I thought I read recently shortly before the election that there was more funds to be made available to the media – $65 m.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:06am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Plus another $75 mil to take them thru to 2023, which no doubt will be increased when NZers start to realise the depth of the shit we are in.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:27am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      The stinky thing about that is that Fafoi went around all the media organisations pre-election, likely giving them a heads up that that was their intention long before the announcement. Locking in that editorial support. If so it was corrupt as fuck.
      
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      October 24, 2020 2:52pm
- Rocky Jnr
  
  Would I believe anything written by Vance? Not on your life, keyboard interviewer extraordinaire.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:58am
  - Ruahine
    
    I am really looking forward to the next three years of anti- National Party exposes from the anti-National Party media.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:09am
  - sooty
    
    Will she tell us who shot the Bain family, wheres the two masted ketch.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:34am
- Bob
  
  National never had CONTROL of the media, no $50 mill bribes during the National govt terms in office. The Media has lost its control and objectivity to Marxisim
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:15am
  - Tall Man
    
    Not the media but “many” inside the media.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:56am
  - Nickc2
    
    The Nats were also combatting that ‘keyboard for hire’ Hooton. He went from one of their most avid supporters while his mate Muller was leading the party to one of their most vehement critics when Muller self-destructed.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:21am
- Stu2
  
  Also makes the point that Gerry wasn’t very good at running the campaign.
  
  After the worst of the Chch quake outcomes :
  – incompetent house inspections
  – ACC and insurance issues
  – underdone repairs
  – damaged land without a structure not covered
  
  I was surprised he didn’t suffer electorally before now. But the worst affected were east of the Ilam seat.
  
  He came over then as strong personality but not especially bright or empathetic, so perhaps not suited to the running a campaign.
  
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  October 24, 2020 10:12am
  - IC5000
    
    > He came over then as strong personality but not especially bright or empathetic, so perhaps not suited to the running a campaign.
    
    Do you think being a woodwork teacher had anything to do with it?
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:41am
    - Stu2
      
      He always seemed more a bulldozer than a rapier to me, and that is probably independent of previous profession
      
      Indeed a bulldozer personality was probably what was needed in Chch immediately post quake, but when some Cantabs became victims of the processes something more subtle might have done better
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:13am
- Tall Man
  
  Or they have lost control over how that message is conveyed. Few people would have gone through the National party website and received the email updates so their message wasn’t getting through.
  
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  October 24, 2020 10:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The message on the website was clear enough. But the deliberate action to oust Bridges was clearly intended to give the outcome desired.
    
    Labour haven’t got what the wanted because they are too incompetent to understand the likely economic future. Now they are stuck like a little boy having a contract to deliver a steam engine.
    
    They are best to exit while they can. The trapping of power only belong to those who can earn them.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:47am
- kowtow
  
  If that many Nat MP’s are prepared to talk to the Media Party to help provide a back stabbing story like that then I don’t feel sorry for them at all.
  
  They just don’t get it . Just look at the choice of photo for the story from Tait technology.
  
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  October 24, 2020 3:58pm
theoldbloke

Isnt it time the NZ Government seriously reviewed our response to the Covid thingy?

WHO has changed their stance on lockdowns.
Time NZ did too

Lets get back to the mantra, follow the science.
if 20,000 epidemiologists, infectious diseases “”experts”” say the game has changed. Then perhaps the game has changed?

https://gbdeclaration.org/

Isnt it time for NZ to “”rejoin” the world.
Last night visiting someone during the 6pm “”news”” on TV, I was amazed at the amount fear/guilt propaganda being spewed out from the news readers. Plus on the 7pm program, they had the Director General of health perpetuating the fear. Albeit in a low level way.

Lets all put our grownup pants on and plan a good future for all of us.
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October 24, 2020 8:16am
- Scott
  
  The old bloke – I agree we need to get our big boy pants on! Unfortunately it seems that the newly re-elected government is going to carry on with constant Covid messaging. I see it has been ramped up on our televisions lately.
  Are we heading for another lockdown? It only took four cases to trigger the lockdown of the entire Auckland area.
  
  Unfortunately Labour has paid no price for their Covid strategy. In fact the vast majority of New Zealanders still seem to support it. One wonders if 2021 will be another year of rolling lockdowns? Does the economy have to collapse before New Zealanders will rise up and say no more? It seems so.
  
  Jacinda has firm hold of the message, the mainstream media totally support her and the young people are totally on board. It’s not looking good for our nation. I would have to say that I predict more lockdowns on the way.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:55am
- Jimmy White
  
  Policy No 1. You must have a negative test both three days before you get on the plane and also at the Airport before you leave.
  Policy No 2. Have a policy at the Ports that works.
  The ‘We limit the people whoo get on the ships’ is crap because as soon as they leave the ship they go to the pub for a beer. Daaaaa.
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:01am
  - MCos
    
    Those seamen who are going down like flies had tests before they jumped on the plane.
    Some of the tested positive at that point and didn’t depart.
    Another thing.
    Why are those blokes coming out here at all? The ships, which are out at sea for several months at a time, are Soviet era and everything is written in Cyrillic. The ads for personnel are distinctly unappealing to Kiwi seamen and the few that apply don’t get a position.
    Oh dear.
    We can’t get locals. Let’s truck in cheap labour from abroad as essential workers.
    Meanwhile the ships that work close to home have much more appealing pay & conditions and are crewed by locals.
    
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    October 24, 2020 1:44pm
- Bob
  
  The sheeple are being conditioned to another lockdown, probably starting about the 17th Nov; the National party conference is on the 23rd Nov.
  This is how the last lockdowns were programmed.
  No accompanying media photographs or 1pm briefings with Adern yet; will happen just before the announcement of Level 2 in NZ
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:17am
  - namron
    
    Very true, Bob, but will the same “trick” work twice? Particularly with Christmas and the summer holiday season approaching?
    I suspect the reaction and result might be a bit different a second time around.
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:42am
    - Bob
      
      probably change the lockdown to level 3, if the first attempt isn’t successful.
      
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      October 24, 2020 12:12pm
  - MCos
    
    The last thing the Govt will want to do is give the Nats a chance to cancel that shit show.
    
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    October 24, 2020 1:54pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  There’s a lot more than 20,000 highly and relevantly qualified scientists who say, and have been saying for years, that we should take climate change seriously.
  
  Apparently we don’t believe them.
  
  Then why do we believe a three-week old change of heart by these people?
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:30am
  - Tall Man
    
    There are also a lot more who say that climate change is a natural occurrence and cannot be mitigated for by man.
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:55am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Your source please, for the number of scientists who say that climate change is a natural occurrence and cannot be mitigated by man.
      
      Being generous, I will stipulate that your comment requires evidence that the number is more than 20,000. If I were being really strict I would say that you need evidence that the number of scientists who say that climate change is natural and cannot be mitigated by man, is greater than the number who say that climate change can be and currently is being driven by human activity.
      
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      October 24, 2020 10:39am
      - All_on_Red
        
        “My theory is more popular than your theory, so there!”
        
        Science is not determined by a Vote
        
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        October 24, 2020 10:57am
      - JackRabbit
        
        One demonstration that proves a point is worth more a million people who think the opposite.
        
        The concept that the sun isn’t the major input to the heating and cooling of the earth defies science taught at primary school and the experiments that confirm it.
        
        Theories and models are NOT science fact and research. You can determine that the sun IS the major deciding factor in the temperature of the planet. It takes less that 24 hours to prove it. It takes less than 12 hours to prove that water vapour controls the “greenhouse” effect, which is an incorrect label in any case.
        
        Clearly your primary school or secondary school were not big on experiments and relied solely on theories. Modern state education teaches students what to think, not how to think.
        
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        October 24, 2020 11:34am
      - JackRabbit
        
        Your source please, for the number of scientists who say that climate change is NOT a natural occurrence and can be mitigated by man.
        
        So a link please, to each of the 20,000 “scientists”, perhaps in a spreadsheet. Names, addresses, email addresses, phone numbers, and a link to each of their own experiments.
        
        You are quoting them, so clearly you have that data right? And you have reviewed it? How many thousands of hours did it take?
        
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        October 24, 2020 11:39am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Show me what now is climate scientist.
        A scientist who is not a sceptic is not a scientist.
        
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        October 24, 2020 11:50am
      - JJ56
        
        To be helpful, there are a limited number of scientists that have any particularly competent to give a useful opinion on the attribution question (i.e. just how significant are GHGs in the more recent warming of the climate). Remember we had warming before before anyone thinks GHGs could have had an impact.
        
        The issue becomes how best to estimate the sensitivity of the climate to GHGs when there are a variety of other factors that could explain the changes since mid last century.
        
        One method is to use models of the climate and then run the models with and without the extra GHGs and use the projections to estimate the sensitivity. This is what is commonly used to make claims about the future that face us if we keep going the way we are.
        
        There are at least 3 issues that arise. (1) The climate models are not particularly good at replicating the last 150 years climate, even when they “know” the actual climate. (2) There are multiple teams doing the modelling and their results project a large range of values for the future warming. Typically these get averaged to give the figures we see. (3) Related to both the above, the resolution in the models is limited so important phenomena like cloud behaviour are beneath the ability to reproduce, and in some cases we simply lack enough understanding of significant areas to properly model these (e.g. the sea at depth is data poor, and much of the data we do have are for a very limited time span).
        
        Others have attempted to empirically measure the sensitivity by looking at the historic record and attempting to control the other obvious factors (e.g. major volcano eruptions, phases of ENSO) and then measure what is left over for the GHGs.
        
        Interesting the latter tend to be at the bottom end of sensitivity (the Russian models tend to be close).
        
        The big issue is if the globe has a low sensitivity to GHGs then much more effort should be going into adaption.
        
        Back to the original point, do make sure your scientists understands all this, and are pretty well qualified in experimental design, statistical techniques and understands the limitations of simulation models as complex as GCMs.
        
        There aren’t a lot, and almost be definition they will understand that it is uncertain.
        
        Because it is.
        
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        October 24, 2020 12:56pm
      - Unity
        
        Well I have always lived by the Coast and the water hasn’t risen one iota. Of course during storms the water does cause damage so this should be taken into account when siting buildings etc. The weather has always changed and been much much colder and much much warmer through the centuries and long before the industrial revolution. The climate is caused by the solar system and there’s not a thing man can do about it. Having said that I definitely think we should look after our environment with regard to pollution etc.
        
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        October 24, 2020 1:01pm
      - Tall Man
        
        “A lot” is not a number. Stop being so pedantic and it doesn’t matter if it’s 10,000, 20,000 or 100,000.
        
        Enough follow a different opinion to the “accepted” bollocks that man with his petrol engines are fucking up the planet and believe our changes are cyclical and generated by other means, a theory that I also accept.
        
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        October 24, 2020 2:14pm
    - All_on_Red
      
      And those Scientists also say we should continue to eliminate actual pollution.
      If only all or even some of the money spent on ‘Climate Science’ could be directed to something like cleaning up all the waste coming down lots of Rivers in China and India.
      Be a good start
      ??‍♂️
      
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      October 24, 2020 10:45am
    - Nickc2
      
      I’m with them!
      
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      October 24, 2020 11:47am
  - theoldbloke
    
    Alber Ross
    Hilarious non sequitur.
    Nice try at deflection. You should be a politician(if you are not already)
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:32am
  - JackRabbit
    
    The figure of 20,000 “scientists” is a figure that was “plucked from the air”, along with the 97% consensus also “plucked from the air” by Al Gore in 1992. I doubt the 20,000 even know who they are. And a scientist who supports a theory needs to have done their own research. None have.
    
    The 20,000 is as real as the 80,000 lives Jacinda “saved”. Anyone can make anything up, and people is positions that abuse the public trust are common garden variety criminals.
    
    In this world intelligent people measure what others believe by their actions, not what they day. Al Gore, the author of the “97%” consensus, does not believe in Climate Change, as his actions are contrary to his beliefs. Living in a seaside mansion that has a carbon footprint bigger than a small township puts paid to his bullshit.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:18am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The 97% was not an algor device. It came about a couple of years ago from an Aussie academic who had students check 1200+ papers for relevance and rejected all but less than 50 and the 97% was derived by agreement within that small sample. Lies, damn lies and manipulative academics. (The results have been soundly trashed in academia.)
      
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      October 24, 2020 3:05pm
- IC5000
  
  > Isnt it time for NZ to “”rejoin” the world.
  
  You’re joking right? Us Ozzies can’t even leave our country so you have nothing real to complain about. I can’t even travel to WA ffs
  
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  October 24, 2020 10:45am
  - MCos
    
    There’s people here just hoping for a covid flair up, because they know there’ll be something to complain about.
    
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    October 24, 2020 2:04pm
I remember when

Sweden total number covid deaths (5930) march to 22 October divided by days 231 = 25.6
Total number of deaths between March and 22nd June (5340) divided by 108 Days = 49.4
Total number of deaths (590) between 22nd June and 22nd October say 123 Days = 4.8
Between 22nd June and 9th July 234 covid deaths, some of which obviously related to pre 22nd June infections.
Worldometer estimates of Active Cases to Deaths suggest a death rate of .77%
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October 24, 2020 8:18am
- JackRabbit
  
  WorldoMeter is a counter site. It is not a stats site. No different to the counters on Kiwiblog. Except that DPF does not label them stats, he labels them “counters”.
  
  To get up to date accurate stats within say a defined ±2% on all the “meters” they have, would require thousands of staff, a dedicated data centre, a massive programming team, and a budget into the tens of millions per month. To know exactly how many babies were being born you would need people with clipboards and hand counters all over the world. Because despite technology, WorldoMeter have no inbound data feeds, only screen scraping of existing data websites. Screen scraping only captures data from websites with no accuracy checking. Or they use published stats from last year or last month and “nudge” them a bit and then divide down to derive a per second figure. As they saying goes, about as accurate as a “two bob” watch.
  
  Last time someone researched the site it was a one man band working out of a private address. WorldoMeter is a guesstimate site.
  
  The world stats on the NZ Covid stats site were copied from WorldoMeter. WorldoMeter scrapes websites to get data, including the NZ Covid data.
  
  “Every day, in a little town, the watchmaker would arrive at work at 7am, and set the watches and clocks in his little shop to the time on his wrist watch. As with any shop, many people would look in his window, in some cases many times, before coming in to buy a watch or clock they had saved up for.
  
  Every day, a man in a suit and bowler hat, would pass by his shop at 7.45am and look in his windows, but never entered the store, not once.
  This perturbed the watchmaker, as the man did not look like he was short of money.
  
  One day, the watchmaker plucked up the courage and approached the man in the bowler hat. “Good morning sir. I am curious. You have looked in my window every day for the past few months, but never entered or purchased a watch or clock.”
  
  With that the man open the pocket in his three piece suit vest, and produced the finest gold Swiss watch the watchmaker had ever seen. “Sir”, he said, “I have no need for a watch, I have a very good time piece.”
  
  The watchmaker replied “Then why do you gaze in my window every morning?”
  
  The man in the hat replied: “I set the time on my watch by the time on your clocks, which are always perfectly synchronised. I then use the time on my watch to precisely set our factory clock to the correct time at 8am each day. It seems to need adjusting quite often.”
  
  Watchmaker: “Which factory would that be sir?”
  
  Man in hat: “Why, the dairy factory just down the road from your shop. Is their a problem with me using your time to set the factory clock?”
  
  Watchmaker: “Every morning at 6.45am I pass by your factory and set my watch to your factory clock!”
  
  Moral of the story: Simply copying someone else’s work is subjective and error prone. Do your own research.
  
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  October 24, 2020 12:44pm
gorse

I can’t believe they’re leaking like a collapsed dam. When will they learn to keep their own counsel.
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October 24, 2020 8:24am
- Inandout
  
  gorse, National appear to have some bright MPs and more than a few business brains. The problem with bright people is that they are harder to control than comparitively dumb people like Twyford and Clark. Any teacher will tell you the bright kids can be the most disruptive, leaving out of course the bored brain dead ones that can create havoc in the classroom. Jacinda has a ‘dream team’ of very ordinary and really controllable drones. Until National can create another John Key type they will flounder; and that is a shame.
  
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  October 24, 2020 10:18am
  - kowtow
    
    ‘Until National can create another John Key type they will flounder; and that is a shame.’
    
    Shouldn’t get into Messianic cult thinking . Too many doing that . Should be about a team with a message , policy , the economy , good jobs . Not a John Key /Ardern/ Saviour …….
    
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    October 24, 2020 4:45pm
kowtow

Maureen Eames from Barnsley ,83, and her husband Michael 82 , have both had covid . Both hale and hearty today.

Her message;

“I think it’s all ridiculous. We should never have been in lockdown. All the people who are vulnerable should have been helped and kept safe… I’m 83, I don’t give a sod,”
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October 24, 2020 8:31am
- fernglas
  
  It’s unusual to hear from someone who has had the virus. Most people are uninterested in anything which runs counter to the prevailing narrative that if we don’t die from it we will suffer eternal lassitude and respiratory distress. It’s a shame that the truth is so scary for most people.
  
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  October 24, 2020 8:57am
  - Inandout
    
    fernglas, for millenia the plebs were taught eternal suffering would ensue if they lived a sinful life, even fleetingly. Religion as such has taken a dive and so has created a vacuum. Along comes C19 and the basic human yearning for something to believe in has been cleverly woven into our psyche; Jacinda has been the rock that saves a nation of 5 million. It is bloody difficult to beat that ‘Second Coming’ scenario.
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:27am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yep, Worldwide there’s at least 32M folks who have had it and recovered…
    
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    October 24, 2020 10:29am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      There are many hundreds of millions, perhaps up to a billion who have had it or been exposed to date. Majority of 3rd world’s population are young with barely any deaths, only west has old populations that have significant numbers of infected dying.
      
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      October 24, 2020 2:58pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Having a toy boy for a husband gives one that confidence and attitude . . .
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:01am
  - Tall Man
    
    And something to look forward to every day ?
    
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    October 24, 2020 9:51am
Dave Mann

From the downticks so far it seems that the deep fake (look it up) AI bots are focusing today on dismissing rational critiques of the madness lockdowns.
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October 24, 2020 8:48am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yeah, it couldn’t possibly be actual readers disagreeing with the sentiment of comments…
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:26am
  - JackRabbit
    
    You are so right. Readers, not thinkers.
    
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    October 24, 2020 11:20am
- Tall Man
  
  Not bots, just lefties who hate everyone and everything as much as they hate themselves.
  
  Sad for NZ that they and the terrified simpletons are in the ascendancy at the moment.
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:35am
  - IC5000
    
    > Not bots, just lefties who hate everyone and everything as much as they hate themselves.
    
    Is this some kind of psychological issue you have where you hate everyone on the left so you think that they have to mirror your own psychopathology?
    
    I can see those who espouse extremists beliefs like the Islamic state and the alt right ‘hating’ their opponents but not people who hold mainstream political views.
    
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    October 24, 2020 1:13pm
    - Tall Man
      
      As advised to another, read and comprehend.
      
      I said “lefties who hate”. Now if you assume that to mean that I said all lefties hate then the onus for that is on you.
      
      I am quite capable of putting words into my mouth, I don’t need you to do it.
      
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      October 24, 2020 2:17pm
      - IC5000
        
        Ok, so which leftists don’t you hate then?
        
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        October 24, 2020 4:31pm
I remember when

It’s no longer the covid death rate (an obvious sign this is dropping rapidly), it is now the other fear factors. A second wave, numbers skyrocketing but no mention of increased and improved testing regimes.
We have moved on, who hears about Kawasaki disease now.
With all diseases there are the unfortunate who suffer longer term consequences. However, it is time the media started delivering some facts and reduced the reliance on the unusual.
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October 24, 2020 9:02am
- theoldbloke
  
  I agree with Matt Ridley.
  lets stop calling them cases and call them what they are positive tests.
  So many people get a positive test when they dont know they have it!!!
  
  70, 000 positive tests is US schools in 2 weeks.
  How many kids knew they had Covid/or had had covid.
  Bugger all.
  
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  October 24, 2020 10:40am
cmm

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/123162383/mum-takes-sick-daughter-home-rather-than-leave-her-in-dirty-mouldy-ward

Three years of neglect?

Oh dear, so there are a few slightly scruffy and broken bits. Parkside refurb has been delayed due to delays in the hospital build and trying to catch up after CV19.
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October 24, 2020 9:12am
- Bob
  
  Not neglect! Total mismanagement.
  
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  October 24, 2020 9:21am
Tall Man

A couple of days ago in a discussion about house building costs in NZ Ian from Palmerston north posted a local website of a company building a kit house around $1100 plus gst per m2.

Ian, you missed the point. That is a very basic house that few kiwis actually want and a lesser price in oz will putchase a vastly superior house of much better design. Many kiwis have been to oz and are well aware of this.

Currently standard cost is approx $1100 per m2 standard, $1500 per m2 upmarket and from $2000 per m2 for architects design. All gst included.

But you are right about the land costs. I don’t think labour helped when they rejected working with Judith on the rma.
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October 24, 2020 9:48am
- Inandout
  
  TM, look at this Aussie site for a major building supplier. I was surprised at the pool supply prices which can be double the amount here.
  https://www.mitre10.com.au/outdoor-living/pool-spa?___store=default
  
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  October 24, 2020 10:33am
I remember when

The election must be over now with the number of articles starting to appear about the impact of covid and the lockdown.
All of the import/export industries are starting to have what could become serious longer term problems.
Airfreight has been the most seriously impacted as an industry because of the lack of regular freight transported on passenger aircraft. This has meant some destinations have been almost removed for export/import activity.
In the shipping industry there are starting to be ongoing problems with the loading and clearing of cargo. Boats are waiting at anchorage for days before being able to berth which has meant a buildup of cargo awaiting shipment. The delay is affecting both import and export and is being exacerbated by strikes in Australia. Shipping companies don’t make money from ships at anchorage awaiting a berth so are looking at other destinations.
The delay in loading cargoes means the backlog has put serious pressure on both the inland ports and rail. Exporters don’t get paid for cargo sitting in storage.
Auckland is the main problem but their problems also have an impact on Tauranga which means the majority of NZ container shipments.
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October 24, 2020 9:49am
- Bob
  
  Watch for a further $50 mill injection to change the news emphasis away from the pending ever deepening recession in NZ.
  
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  October 24, 2020 2:34pm
I remember when

How ready are we for the much touted shovel ready’ projects.
In Auckland the Council has already drawn attention to the lack of available staff to handle RMA, building inspection and consents. Also the potential competition for what is already a ‘scarce’ resource.
Palmerston North City Council talk of having to contract out work because shortages in the Planning and Building Services department. They mention a shortage of 61 staff vacancies many in this area.
I hear Ganesh Nana gave a very good workshop on these and other resource problems for the Government’s ‘shovel ready’ projects.
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October 24, 2020 10:02am
- BAM
  
  Only a handful are going ahead.
  
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  October 24, 2020 11:07am
- Bigted
  
  Hutt City Council has shocking delays for inspections. 2 weeks wait at present. Applied for CCC, it has taken a month from then until final inspection.
  
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  October 24, 2020 11:19am
  - MCos
    
    I wonder how much that is due to inspectors having to look at stuff twice because the builder isn’t ready the first time?
    
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    October 24, 2020 2:21pm
Fletch

Parody website Babylon Bee posts a Monty Python joke on Facebook – Facebook blocks the post and demonetizes them….

On Tuesday, Facebook stood by its decision to demonetize the Christian satire site The Babylon Bee over a satire article regurgitating a witch joke from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. Facebook claimed that the article “Senator Hirono Demands ACB Be Weighed Against A Duck To See If She Is A Witch” actually “incites violence.” The social media platform demanded that the Babylon Bee edit the article and not speak publicly about the review, but Babylon Bee CEO Seth Dillon went public.

“So after a manual review, Facebook says they stand by their decision to pull down this article and demonetize our page. I’m not kidding. They say this article ‘incites violence,’” Dillon tweeted. “It’s literally a regurgitated joke from a Monty Python movie!”

“In what universe does a fictional quote as part of an obvious joke constitute a genuine incitement to violence?” the CEO asked. “How does context not come into play here? They’re asking us to edit the article and not speak publicly about internal content reviews. Oops, did I just tweet this?”

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/tyler-o-neil/2020/10/20/facebook-demonetizes-babylon-bee-saying-acb-monty-python-joke-incites-violence-n1072750
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October 24, 2020 10:20am
RJ

STRIKING ANOTHER HISTORIC AGREEMENT: President Donald J. Trump has brokered a peace agreement between Sudan and Israel – the third such agreement between Israel and an Arab-Muslim nation in less than three months.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefings-statements/president-donald-j-trump-brokers-historic-peace-agreement-israel-sudan/
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October 24, 2020 10:33am
- Mike
  
  Great news!
  Israelis can sleep soundly, no longer fearing Sudanese missile attacks…
  
  4 17
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  October 24, 2020 10:57am
- RJ
  
  Interesting to see 3 people are against peace
  
  6 2
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  October 24, 2020 2:00pm
theoldbloke

Stuff keep asking for donations for responsible journalism then import this BS article.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300141281/trump-v-biden-falsehoods-and-fumbles-in-final-us-presidential-debate

I guess the new spin merchants are called fact checks, when the fact checkers put THEIR opinion down as a fact check.

Example:
TRUMP on the toll of Covid-19 in the US: “So as you know 2.2 million people, modelled out, were expected to die.”

THE FACTS: This was his first line in the debate, and it is false. The US death toll from the pandemic was not expected to be that high.

Guess the fact checker hadnt looked at the modelling that was presented to Trump/Boris that changed them to change their minds.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01003-6

So fail to the fact checker!
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October 24, 2020 10:49am
Dave Mann

The Wuhan Institute of Virology has regretfully had to dispense with the services of Dr Liu Aiguo.

Dr Liu had for the past 15 years been developing mutations of biotoxins for use in biological warfare and one of the most promising avenues of his research was a new form of leprosy which makes victims’ limbs literally fall off and their skin turn to jelly within days of infection.

But according to leaked emails the director of the institute (who’s name is only known to selected politburo members) said that Dr Liu’s work is now redundant because the West can be literally destroyed by a sniffle: “What started out as a trial run has succeeded beyond our wildest expectations, so further development of the leprosy project is now redundant”.

The memo went on to say that, in the event that lockdowns don’t entirely destroy the West, there is always the reserve follow up tactic of ramping up the fear factor over imaginary threats in the future: “2020 has shown us that expensive and time consuming development of biological warfare agents is not necessary or productive. The fear of an invisible threat alone is enough to achieve the desired result. Our propaganda people have several fake pandemic scenarios waiting to be deployed as necessary”.

When asked to comment Dr Liu said simply “Bastards. There’s always some clever prick trying to put honest scientists of their jobs”.
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October 24, 2020 10:51am
RJ

Tony Bobulinski’s press conference from yesterday

https://banned.video/watch?id=5f921b1e2487af16c48a64d3
8 2
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October 24, 2020 10:52am
- Fletch
  
  Looks like Hunter was also involved in selling sensitive military technology to the Chinese.
  
  https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/23/code-name-project-hanson-insider-documents-reveal-how-hunter-biden-associates-helped-chinese-military-contractor-acquire-michigan-dual-use-manufacturer/
  
  These guys are traitors. Should be in prison. And people actually want Biden as president? What a shambles.
  
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  October 24, 2020 11:25am
- Fletch
  
  ps, this is what a whistle blower looks like. Someone willing to stand up publicly and testify and put their life and reputation on the line. Not some anonymous “source” that the Democrats cover for and get to testify in the basement of the Capitol building. Someone whose identity they never reveal.
  
  We know who this guy is. His relationship with the Bidens. Their company, etc. It’s all plain to see and for people to judge.
  
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  October 24, 2020 11:37am
oldfella

For those interesting in the media, the new Netflix drama ‘Mr Jones’ is a timely reminder of how the NY Times helped hide Joseph Stalin’s mass murders in the Ukraine (a newspaper which is still great at covering up important stories that don’t fit their politics).
To quote the Tablet’s background article on Mr Jones: ‘It is this meditation on the role and mission of journalism that gives Mr. Jones such a contemporary feel. The shoddy “first rough draft of history” that [Walter] Duranty and his fellow reporters left behind influenced the world’s understanding of the famine and the entirety of Stalin’s crimes for decades. What kind of rough drafts of history are being written in the here and now as prominent media outlets and individual journalists take up positions on the barricades in our own polarized times? The 90-year-old story of Stalin’s famine offers an unusually pertinent case for exploring these questions.
https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/walter-duranty-ukraine-new-york-times-mr-jones-agnieszka-holland
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October 24, 2020 11:08am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Saw it at the film festival last year. A pretty harrowing watch.
  
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  October 24, 2020 12:18pm
- Fletch
  
  The NY Times also hid the extermination of the Jews in WWII. There have been several books written on it.
  
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  October 24, 2020 2:28pm
oldfella

Re-elected Trump will prioritise reducing global reliance on China, security adviser says (unlike Biden who would probably continue to get CCP backhanders from his corrupt son).
https://www.smh.com.au/world/europe/re-elected-trump-will-prioritise-reducing-global-reliance-on-china-security-adviser-says-20201024-p5685l.html
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October 24, 2020 12:03pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8jsEWRxwkc
Biden Leaks Support.

No, it’s not the Depends that are leaking. It’s his support.
A whistle blower Mr Bobulinski has flipped on Hunter Biden.
He heard Joe, and Hunter discussing Hunters dealings in 2017.
Associates weren’t supposed to mention Joe, or his brother
Jim. There are pics of them with Mr Archer, who was on the
Burisma board. Joe Biden got a 10% cut on deals. The DNI
Has confirmed the validity of the laptop, and its contents.
Kamala Harris, and other prominent Dems are implicated.
They were listed as key contacts for certain business dealings.
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October 24, 2020 12:10pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Time for a bit of RICO – racketeering/anti organised crime prosecution. Has fairly extreme powers for ferreting out conspiracies.
  
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  October 24, 2020 3:01pm
  - curry4me
    
    UrbanNeocolonialist: Yes, indeed, way past time.
    
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    October 24, 2020 4:25pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LpvVNG3dM_M
Anti-Trust Time For Google.

Justice has slapped an anti-trust suit on Google. You
Tube, is owned by Google, which receives 80% of
All internet searches. Dems think they have too much power too.
The suit has been joined by 11 State AGs. The suit alleges that
Google is unlawfully maintaining monopolies in search activities.
They paid Apple to use them as their search engine for mobiles.
It’s mandatory on Android phones. Justice wants structural relief.
They want some activities stopped.
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October 24, 2020 12:10pm
Fletch

The Trump admin has joined in with 32 other countries in signing a declaration stating that there is no international right to abortion.

The Trump administration led a 32-nation signing ceremony of a declaration that affirms there is no international right to abortion.

On Thursday, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Secretary of Health & Human Services Alex Azar co-hosted the virtual signing of the Geneva Consensus Declaration along with the governments of Brazil, Egypt, Hungary, Indonesia, and Uganda.

The declaration serves as a rebuke to the pro-abortion rights U.N. and World Health Organization (W.H.O.).

It states the nations join to promote women’s health as well as the “strength of the family and of a successful and flourishing society.” The governments also affirm “the essential priority of protecting the right to life.”

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/10/23/trump-admin-leads-32-nations-in-u-n-rebuke-no-international-right-to-abortion/
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October 24, 2020 1:37pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Tell me again that Biden will win.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkgaxo2OStA
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October 24, 2020 3:38pm
- IC5000
  
  San Diego is in California which Clinton carried by 11.6%. Not sure the point you were making Otto.
  
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  October 24, 2020 4:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Denile is a river somewhere. Ain’t in the USA
    
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    October 24, 2020 5:07pm
Swifty

Daytona 500 – close to the fence:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3Pq5KbsnR4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvk4Ap7NugM
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October 24, 2020 5:00pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/cannabis-referendum/123184117/how-abe-gray-became-new-zealands-gandalf-of-weed
” I’m Abe Gray ! Look at me ! Look at ME! “
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October 24, 2020 5:07pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

BLM.
Biden’s Laptop Matters
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October 24, 2020 5:27pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

You know why we are seeing peace deals being done all over the middle east? Because Arabs can see the end of wealthy petro-economies fast approaching as rise of EVs sees oil production peak and fall. Saudi arabia and iran won’t be able to prop up islamo-fundamentalist states and will lose their military capabilities as they are impoverished. Their economies are already being hammered by economic fallout of covid and they all realise that the only wealthy and militarily mighty economy that will be left in the region is 20 years is Israel. Time to start sucking up.
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October 24, 2020 5:43pm

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