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October 26, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 October 2020

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PhilBest

Yesterday I posted this link, which is a written comprehensive statement by Dr Mike Yeadon, of the science of epidemiology and immunology as now known about Covid-19, which he says is being flagrantly ignored by Britain’s official advisory body.
https://lockdownsceptics.org/what-sage-got-wrong/

Now I wish to recommend to Kiwibloggers on this public holiday, this lengthy “Podcast” from James Delingpole, which looks like becoming his most listened and downloaded one ever, for good reason.
https://delingpole.podbean.com/e/dr-mike-yeadon/
For most of it, he just lets Dr Yeadon patiently explain (referring to his graphs in the published item, which it is helpful to view at the same time) the science of epidemiology and immunology both as now known about Covid-19, and as it existed prior.
Dr Yeadon says most experts are afraid to speak out because they are under threat of deregistration if they do so. He is of independent means because of a successful biotech startup that he sold very lucratively.
What I find shattering about Dr Yeadon’s explanations, is that all the good news about Covid-19 that has been emerging since mid March and has been suppressed by the establishment, is stuff that immunology and epidemiology would have expected to see in a viral pandemic. The “expert” officials should have been keen to identify these things as early as possible and minimize the collateral damage of mitigation policy. Instead, as Dr Yeadon argues, they have knowingly perpetuated a narrative based on ignorance which might have been excusable in February.
For example, the “discovery” that T-cells deal with infections in up to half of people without antibodies even being developed, is “Immunology 101”, and something that any honest “expert” should have been looking for from day one. If it didn’t happen with Covid-19, that would have been unique – but this uniqueness is still assumed as a basis for hysteria even though studies determined months ago that Covid-19 is being handled in this way by the body’s immune system, exactly as honest immunology would have anticipated. This is just one example of the flagrant burying of actual science.
Dr Yeadon says he has given up trying to get any sense out of the official bodies by promoting a fact-based discussion among experts – his position now is to publicly accuse them of knowingly LYING to the politicians and the public – and as he says – “so sue me for libel, I’d love to thrash this out in a court of law”.
The alarmist machine telling us “listen to the science”, is actually telling us, “listen to the scientists who are LYING”.
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October 26, 2020 8:00am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  We are being played biggly.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:40am
  - doggone7
    
    Who do we listen to then next time around? The internet forums?
    
    We are victims of information on every day, 24/7, 365.
    
    Is the antidote to be sceptical, untrusting, questioning, anti-everything until we seek and find something matching our own thoughts?
    
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    October 26, 2020 11:02am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      The antidote is to be sceptical, untrusting, questioning, anti-everything until we seek and find the truth.
      
      There, I fixed it for you. This course of action is infinitely better than blindly following the lies, spin and fear-mongering designed to control a compliant, terrified populace. Well it is for me anyway, you do whatever you like.
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:03pm
      - RichardX
        
        All good except for the bit you left out about how to know when you have found the truth.
        
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        October 26, 2020 1:45pm
      - C J Southern
        
        I think the bigger problem these days is that (a) most people don’t have the tools or the knowledge to access the truth (most information comes through sources with tremendous potential for bias – plug most people don’t have the technical skill to understand the subject matter) and (b) most believe the “truth” is what ever best aligns with the position they’ve chosen on any given topic (largely through the echo-chamber way in which they determine (a)).
        
        It’s so screwed up on so many levels.
        
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        October 26, 2020 2:54pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        The tools they most need are discernment (recognize or find out), discriminate (recognize a distinction; differentiate), judgement (the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions).
        
        These words get a bad rap, especially discrimination, yet they remain an essential part of arriving at truth and understanding. State education is teaching people what to think, not how to think, and this is reinforced by the media.
        
        And the discrimination is selective. Lesbians go public and shame a woman if she discriminates and advertises for a “straight” female flatmate. But said lesbians will advertise on a dating site and discriminate that they only want to meet other lesbians.
        
        In respect of “most people don’t have the technical skill to understand the subject matter”:
        
        You don’t have to have to have any technical skill to know when a political party can’t and won’t keep its promises.
        
        Or when we are told 80,000 will die of Covid which is 150 times worse than the flu, and the only source is through our borders, but the 80,000 mongers didn’t shut the borders, so clearly they (the 80,000 mongers) don’t consider it important. And all reinforced by bike rides, hugs and selfies.
        
        And if Covid was really that bad, don’t you think they would have published the IFR (infection fatality rate) by now?
        
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        October 26, 2020 5:40pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @JackRabbit,
        
        “You don’t have to have to have any technical skill to know when a political party can’t and won’t keep its promises.”
        
        No disagreement there. My only “question” when Labour were making all these grand claims was “where is the money to pay for it all going to come from?” I suspect that they thought they’d have more money than they did; they were counting on the surplus National handed them — but didn’t count on the effect their policies would have on the tax take (plunging business confidence etc).
        
        “Or when we are told 80,000 will die of Covid which is 150 times worse than the flu”
        
        That figure assumes that the virus wasn’t contained here whereas in reality it was contained … it’s just that the containment came at a HUGE economic expense (which will ultimately cost many lives — it just won’t say “COVID-19 on the death certificate”.
        
        “And if Covid was really that bad, don’t you think they would have published the IFR (infection fatality rate) by now?”
        
        You’ve lost me; you can easily calculate any rates you like for any country you like. Bottom line is that 1,159,815 have died of/with it so far and it’s not even at the end-of-the-beginning stage yet.
        
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        October 26, 2020 11:20pm
    - softail 1450
      
      doggone, the last part of your post was Covid Cindys election strategy and it worked ..
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:30pm
      - doggone7
        
        I elicited what I wanted reassurance on. Thanks Loddenthinks. I will be sceptical, untrusting, questioning, anti-everything until I find the truth.
        
        When I get to that point I will know that all others who have been sceptical, untrusting, questioning, anti-everything and think have found the truth are wrong if it is different than the truth I have found.
        
        Immunologists and epidemiologists might agree with colleagues on parts of the science and disagree on other aspects. So, they are the experts, who to believe? And when one opinion is valued less than someone else’s the notion becomes ‘the real truth is being withheld’ and ‘suppression of facts.’
        
        Of course, I hate to think that in a world of educated people, scientists no less, with objectivity being paramount, that professional jealousy and human foibles might impede.
        
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        October 26, 2020 2:59pm
    - IC5000
      
      > until we seek and find something matching our own thoughts?
      
      That’s called confirmation bias.
      
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      October 26, 2020 6:44pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Thank you Captain Obvious
        
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        October 26, 2020 8:18pm
- Aunty
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/the-dangers-of-misinformation-conspiracy-theories-and-fake-news/TXPLI5VRDS77YUWCSWQ25C73YQ/
  
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  October 26, 2020 10:30am
- Ed Snack
  
  And there’s the Danish mask study that can’t find a publisher, because it does exemplary science and apparently finds that masks are not effective. Thus is *must* be suppressed and to hell with the science.
  
  This is where relying on “feelz” over rationality leads.
  
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  October 26, 2020 12:15pm
- Martio Jonesetti
  
  The Great Barrington Declaration vs The John Snow Memorandum https://www.aier.org/article/john-snow-vs-the-john-snow-memorandum/
  
  John Snow himself would have signed the Great Barrington Declaration, not the John Snow Declaration.
  The people who passed for scientists in Snow’s day believed that people got cholera from other people or from “miasmas,” scientific jargon for bad air. So during cholera outbreaks, many governments imposed quarantines and cordon sanitaires that “cramp(s) commerce and cause(s) vast expense.” They were more limited geographically than today’s lockdowns but nonetheless often led to a “state of confusion, bordering on anarchy” where imposed.
  
  John Snow, who noticed cholera victims all initially presented with tummy problems, not breathing issues, which suggested that they ingested, rather than inhaled, something untoward. In 1849, he published a paper, “On the Mode of Communication of Cholera,” which argued that bad water, not bad air, caused cholera.
  
  Thomas Davis had made the same claim in 1832, but nobody in power wanted to hear that London’s sewage system had to be modernized and enlarged. But Snow kept collecting data like any good scientist would. Turned out that the Londoners who got their water from a company that pumped it out from a part of the Thames visibly contaminated with sewage were an order of magnitude more likely to die of cholera (315 vs. 59 per 10,000) than those who got their water elsewhere.
  
  That’s a smoking sewer pipe if there ever was one, right? But no, “the” scientists needed more proof. They got their water from safe sources and had published articles and books that blamed cholera on miasmas and other quackeries and didn’t really care about the poor Londoners drinking dangerous water. Ironically, one major voice of establishment skepticism was The Lancet, the very outlet pushing the John Snow Memorandum. It implied, in the gentlemanly style of the day, that Snow was not a real scientist and that his words bordered on treason!
  
  Despite opposition, Snow pressed on, discovering during an 1854 outbreak that most of the sick people got their water from a single well while others who lived and worked nearby — and hence breathed the same air — were fine if they drew water from private sources. Snow even mapped it all out but there was nothing wrong with the well that anyone could see. Later, though, a baby with diarrhea was identified as patient zero for that outbreak, which ended soon after the baby died and its mother stopped putting its feces into a cesspool that leaked into the well that Snow had identified and convinced local leaders to shut down.
  
  Snow contributed to epidemiological thinking by proposing a novel hypothesis for cholera transmission, testing the hypothesis by leveraging heterogeneity regarding water sources and outcomes, providing clear and compelling evidence for his case, and pushing for the lowest cost-effective intervention. Yet Snow conceded that removing the handle from the water pump was only an intermediate stopgap and that only the baby’s death removed the threat from the community.
  
  Even after this triumph, public health officials and establishment outlets like The Lancet would not accept Snow’s theory, presumably in part because the fecal-to-mouth transmission method was too gross to contemplate. Although a teetotaler and vegetarian who boiled his own water, Snow died of a stroke at age 45. I suspect the stupidity and cupidity of those with whom he had to deal caused him to pop a vessel. Only after additional studies conducted after his death was Snow’s theory finally accepted and widespread sanitary reforms implemented. Snow died but won, while The Lancet lost and lived on, and on, and on.
  
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  October 26, 2020 11:02pm
- Martio Jonesetti
  
  Published and peer reviewed paper from Prof John Ionnidis of Stanford University, California (also published online by WHO on 14 October 2020) https://www.who.int/bulletin/online_first/BLT.20.265892.pdf
  showing Covid-19 I. F. R. for overall population is 0.23% and for people under 70 years of age it is 0.05%
  
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  October 26, 2020 11:44pm
mikenmildagain

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Happy Intersex Awareness Day!
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October 26, 2020 8:00am
- hookerphil
  
  Used to be more into sex when I was younger.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:16am
  - sooty
    
    Labour Party day!
    
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    October 26, 2020 8:55am
    - Janabelle
      
      Yes but is National holiday
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:19am
  - C J Southern
    
    Meh – sex is “ok” but scorched almonds are really something special!
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:43am
    - oldfella
      
      And, CJS, ‘chocolate’ scorched almonds are even more special.
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:13am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        A sales rep was waiting in an old folks home.
        While waiting he was eating a bowl of toasted almonds.
        A nurse passed him and said “I’m glad you like the almonds, around here they just suck the chocolate off”.
        
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        October 26, 2020 11:44am
      - C J Southern
        
        The only ones I know.
        
        Damnit – I think I’ll go buy some!
        
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        October 26, 2020 2:56pm
    - info@cruzpro.com
      
      And you do it multiple times without a waiting period.
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:42pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Intersex? is that between sex changes, procreational bouts or gender fluidity pondering it’s case? A straight answer would be helpful not embroidered with gay pantyhose.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:30am
  - Linda Reid
    
    Intersex is when a person is born with both male and female physical characteristics. It is a naturally occurring genetic abnormality. In the past, children with this condition were often surgically assigned a sex as a baby and raised as male or female. This was often unsuccessful.
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:42am
    - Nukuleka
      
      0.018% of the population. Almost to the point of insignificance but what the heck if it means another letter can be added to the ‘poor me victim’ alphabet lobby.
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:08am
      - Okahu
        
        World population 7.8 billion ish. By your stats that’s multitudes of millions that qualify as intersex. Did your despicable disregard come from some Stone Age text that has poisoned your sensibilities or are you just a callous jerk by nature?
        
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        October 26, 2020 10:43am
    - Inandout
      
      LR. You mean hermaphrodites?
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:14am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        Painful form of piles?
        
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        October 26, 2020 11:45am
      - Linda Reid
        
        I listened to a talk by a marine biologist about 30 years ago. He said there were 6 sexes. XX female. XY male. This accounts for the vast majority of the population. But you also get XXX, XXY, X, and XYY.
        I remember because it was a surprise to me.
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:17am
    - oldfella
      
      Linda: was that surgical assignment surgery based on their chromosomes (XX or XY), and would that even be acceptable in today’s ‘woke’ society?
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:18am
      - Linda Reid
        
        I understand that their genetic makeup is different than XX or XY. Assignment was made by parental preference. It’s a very rare condition.
        
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        October 27, 2020 9:21am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Same as hermaphroditism… and exceedingly rare.
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:39am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Do the chromosomes lie? Genetic material may differ between humans but XY and XX defines sex otherwise mitochondrial DNA would be irrelevant.
      
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      October 26, 2020 1:28pm
  - softail 1450
    
    KevinO’Brien Not sure but it could be like that thing that said those famous words “it rubs the lotion on it’s skin”….Buffalo Bill, the silence of the lambs.LOL.
    
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    October 26, 2020 12:44pm
Brian Marshall

Just another Gaff, but what a gaff!!

https://youtu.be/MA8a2g6tTp0

Not doctored at all. Apologies if someone has already posted in yesterday’s general thread, I’ve only just seen in this morning..
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October 26, 2020 8:01am
- RJ
  
  No gaff, both sides have a large voter fraud team that is going into states and taking legal action
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:45am
  - softail 1450
    
    RJ, NO he was meant to say “anti voter fraud” stop making excuses for the corrupt bumbling old shyster.
    
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    October 26, 2020 12:49pm
    - RJ
      
      Ah no. It’s obvious what he was talking about, and no I’ve never made excuses for him if you bother to read you’d know I hate the guy. But there is absolutely nothing in what he said except for those who are reading more into it than what he is talking about.
      
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      October 26, 2020 7:40pm
- Ed Snack
  
  One of the few times one can believe that Joe is saying what he means, if he even know what he means at all.
  
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  October 26, 2020 12:21pm
Don Beckett

Happy St. Chad and St. Cedd’s feast day. 😉
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October 26, 2020 8:02am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Sorry, those two are a bit boring. I prefer the more entertaining Catholic demi-gods, with the stories of supposed miracles and amusing martyrdoms.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:11am
  - kowtow
    
    Here’s an “amusing martyr”
    
    ‘Maximilian Kolbe, venerated as Saint Maximilian Kolbe, was a Polish Catholic priest and Conventual Franciscan friar who volunteered to die in place of a stranger in the German death camp of Auschwitz, located in German-occupied Poland during World War II.’
    
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    October 26, 2020 8:43am
  - GazzaW
    
    ……you might find them more amusing mike but most find that put-downs of other peoples’ personal beliefs is just a tad immature.
    
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    October 26, 2020 8:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes. Perhaps I should perform a penance.
      
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      October 26, 2020 9:14am
      - GazzaW
        
        …….a month’s self denial from KB would be a good start.
        
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        October 26, 2020 9:35am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Something realistic. how about a guest post on a topic of the people’s choice?
        
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        October 26, 2020 11:25am
      - softail 1450
        
        MMA , I get the feeling a spirited Haka would be more down your street ,after obtaining written permission in triplicate from the local Kaumatua of course.
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:52pm
    - RichardX
      
      Why shouldn’t people’s personal beliefs be up for ridicule?
      
      It should be fair to criticise someone who believes something dumb for a dumb reason.
      It happens regularly in this forum
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:06pm
      - Classic Liberal
        
        Nobody’s banning it. People can criticise the criticism.
        
        That’s the right free speech balance.
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:38pm
      - IC5000
        
        > It should be fair to criticise someone who believes something dumb for a dumb reason.
        
        Which is why DPF trump posts cause mass triggering
        
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        October 26, 2020 6:46pm
      - marcw
        
        > If you disagree with IC5000 you must be dumb
        
        Which is why IC5000 gets triggered if you criticise something he knows.
        
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        October 26, 2020 7:29pm
- RalphT
  
  I won’t believe it until I hear it from Milky…
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:12am
Benedict Yu

This is terrible journalism.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300128542/election-2020-three-strikes-is-out-under-labours-law-and-order-policy

It presents a one sided view of three strikes. It focuses on what Andrew Little calls absurd outcomes. Then gives two examples. The guy that got a maximum sentence for kissing someone (a stranger on the street which is actually no joke) and the other guy that assaulted a prison guard.

What is missing is the catalogue of dozens of terrifying maniacs who received a second strike and must serve their sentence without parole, and how these people will inevitably commit more serious offences over the next 20 years, and so get a third strike. I recall that DPF ran a series on these offenders.

The benefits of three strikes are being seen and these will amplify over the next 20 years as the most dangerous offenders hit the third strike.

Andrew Little speaks in slogans. I am all for every workable plan to reduce crime and rehabilitate criminals. But your 30 year old gang member with facial tattoos and 50 convictions is not going to change. In most cases they need to be locked up forever.

So three strikes will go. I hope that ACT makes it a big issue.
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October 26, 2020 8:09am
- Paulus
  
  What do you expect it is from Stuff still hoping for more Taxpayers money to keep them in business.
  Will not work – election over !
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:22am
- peterwn
  
  And the potentially absurd outcomes were managed by the ‘manifestly unjust’ provision. I wonder if Jacinda and other senior Labour MP’s will over-rule Andrew Little on this. The last thing they would want is another Panmure RSA type incident.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:29am
  - Nickc2
    
    Why is Little cuddling up to crims for now? The election is over FFS. This should be a cue to Judith to start jumping up and down about Little’s stupidity. Whilst she doesn’t have the numbers in the house to prevent Little passing his laws, she does have the authority and hopefully backing to sway public opinion against such idiocy. Come on Judith, start a campaign.
    
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    October 26, 2020 12:14pm
- Mike22240
  
  I think Bill English had the best idea with his social investment policies. I interpreted them as fixing criminals is hard and better to target the money at preventing criminals and breaking the cycle of generational failure.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:34am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Most people don’t realise that Bill English set up a whole agency to determine social investment interventions based on analysing linked data sets. The agency still exists. But the government renamed it “Social Wellbeing Agency”
    
    https://swa.govt.nz/
    
    Don’t know what it is doing. But I never heard any minister say anything about it in the last 3 years. Typically when government agencies are sidelined all the best people leave. For obvious reasons.
    
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    October 26, 2020 8:55am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Perhaps if you followed your link you could find out and report back.
      
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      October 26, 2020 9:16am
      - Batman
        
        To be fair, SIA has been pretty much mothballed and disregarded by the current government. It’s a disgrace to those of us who worked on creating a revolution in how we address social issues.
        
        Better to just spent twice as much and give more to everyone, rather than do the truly awful thing and identify those who need help and put plenty of resource into improving their individual situation.
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:07pm
- kowtow
  
  Judges don’t like holding crims to account at the best of times……..
  
  ‘ A disgruntled tenant who gave her Wanaka landlord a chemical burn by pouring bleach into her shampoo has been let off without punishment.’
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/tenant-let-after-wanaka-landlord-suffers-chemical-burn#:~:text=A%20disgruntled%20tenant%20who%20gave,with%20reckless%20disregard%20for%20safety.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:49am
  - Jack5
    
    But they’ll hammer offenders who break the coming Littlerite speech-control laws.
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:16am
- C J Southern
  
  Speaking of terrible journalism – did you see this TVNZ piece?
  
  https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/analysis-think-you-know-jacinda-ardern-handbrake-now-removed-again
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:53am
  - The Real Tony
    
    That’s a terrible piece of writing. Some pearls from the text…
    
    “Grant Robertson’s carefully rebuilt surplus…” like what the actual fuck is that about?
    
    “…as she watched John Key’s govt unwind Labour initiatives…” like what exactly? KiwiSaver? Interest Free student loans? Working for Families?
    
    Nothing but a puff piece full of lies and half-truths.
    
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    October 26, 2020 11:50am
    - Nickc2
      
      Nothing but a puff piece full of lies and half-truths.
      and the rest is bullshit!
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:25pm
    - C J Southern
      
      Agreed. It’s garbage like that that makes me want to just withdraw from MSM.
      
      It’s so removed from reality that it’s depressing.
      
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      October 26, 2020 3:02pm
- fredonas
  
  “If you are reaching a general conclusion about a big topic by looking at anecdotal evidence, you are engaging in loserthink.” – Scott Adams, “Loserthink” (2019) p100
  
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  October 26, 2020 11:35am
- freethinker
  
  ACT/National should announce that 3 strikes will be re imposed retrospectively if they form next Govt and same with all other flawed and divisive legislation by Cindy so she has little legacy of legislation sticking except that which is beneficial to all NZers
  
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  October 26, 2020 12:48pm
- softail 1450
  
  B Y ,The scruff bag Little will be personally responsible for any murders carried out by these animals that would have been jailed permanently ,I wonder if the bearded prick has considered that?
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:01pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  Andrew Little has no interest whatsoever in reducing crime or rehabilitating criminals. He wants to let them out and give them a hug, and will loudly trumpet his success in “reducing the prison population”.
  
  I fear for the innocent people that will be traumatised, robbed, raped and killed by the recidivist scumbags he turns loose.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:38pm
WaynelSexton

The Hunter Biden mainstream media blackout has come to an end.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8877221/Hunter-Biden-alleged-sex-tapes-uploaded-Chinese-video-site-linked-Steve-Bannon.html#article-8877221
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October 26, 2020 8:14am
- MCos
  
  Shock Horror
  
  Another alleged sex tape against an American presidential candidate, Supreme Court justice candidate, cardinal, Hollywood actor . . . .
  No doubt some there’s something in some of this stuff, but the market has been flooded somewhat.
  
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  October 26, 2020 10:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I was expecting an actual October surprise, not another round of “Butt Hunter” and emails. How about revisiting Nancy Pelosi’s scandalous visit to a hairdresser, or recalling that time Obama wore a tan suit?
    
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    October 26, 2020 11:33am
    - Batman
      
      I’ve always enjoyed the tan suit scandal.
      
      No president has done anything worse.
      
      https://youtu.be/WrTf6CaTTc0
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:09pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hah. That led me to this gem – ‘How to real estate’:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5zHxeuQ3Tc&ab_channel=SarahCooper
        
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        October 26, 2020 4:57pm
      - Random Punter
        
        As the old Duke of Gloucester used to say, “Never wear a brown suit, or people will think you’re the sort of chap who wears brown suits”.
        
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        October 26, 2020 6:15pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      How about actual proof that Joe Biden is and has been in the take for years ?
      
      There’s an email from Burisma management saying that Hunter Biden needs to deliver on the agreed deliverables in his contract. And that specifically means getting rid of the legal problems that threaten Burisma’s owner in Ukraine. Next month Joe Biden insists that the Prosecutor General of the Ukraine be fired.
      
      So the PG who is pursuing Burisma (property sequestered in Feb 2016 – giving the lie to the narrative that he wasn’t doing anything) is replaced by one who settles all outstanding matters with no prosecutions in a few months. Burisma’s investment in Hunter paid off big time, and Hunter continued to get $1M a year with 50% passed on to Joe.
      
      That good enough, or are you simply happy that such blatant corruption is acceptable as long as the proponents are Democrats ?
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:29pm
      - Batman
        
        The problem here is that you’ve chosen to believe the ’email’ from ‘Burisma’ as fact.
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:38pm
      - IC5000
        
        > How about actual proof that Joe Biden is and has been in the take for years ?
        
        Just make shit up like Trumpists usually do. If Trump can lie to your face why break with convention and ask for the truth.
        
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        October 26, 2020 6:50pm
  - freethinker
    
    Hunter Biden is not a Presidential candidate.
    
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    October 26, 2020 12:49pm
  - cha
    
    But wait, there’s more <stupid…
    
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    October 26, 2020 12:53pm
  - Gravelroad
    
    Inmate here has always been a bit of an admirer of the Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin set so watched a TV programme today called The Jack Pack.
    This was about John F. Kennedy’s close association with Frank Sinatra and Mr Sinatra’s influence in getting a whole lot of electoral and financial support for Kennedy via the mobs and Hollywood celebrities.
    Sheesh, that Kennedy was a real man for the ladies, eh.
    He allegedly has dozens and dozens of them – he would have left Trump in the shade, no problem.
    Ironically, a compliant, worshipful media back then never reported this sort of stuff about their beloved leader………
    
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    October 26, 2020 2:48pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Hunter is not a ‘presidential’ candidate
    
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    October 26, 2020 4:00pm
- Okahu
  
  Assuming that the published photos are of Joe Biden’s son and that they do show he had a sex life and indulged in recreational drugs so what? Would the great minds of Kiwiblog suggest that pearl clutching sensibilities as applied to the son should disqualify a father from public duty?
  Perhaps those who answer yes can shun those they know with families in a similar predicament. Then prepare to become lonelier.
  
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  October 26, 2020 11:29am
  - Ed Snack
    
    It isn’t the six scenes that matter, they’re just a way to get attention. The meat is in how the CCP bribed the Bidens and have their hooks into the family.
    
    You all went apeshit over the fake “Russian Collusion” , here’s some substantive evidence that the Bidens are compromised by China, yet you want to sweep it under the carpet because Joe’s a Democrat ?
    
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    October 26, 2020 12:32pm
    - Batman
      
      There’s no substantive evidence, though. There’s only half-arsed smears and idiotic interpretations of business records.
      
      And look who is now throwing Trump under the bus… Or maybe playing a reverse psychology game
      
      https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-putin-idUSKBN27A0TA
      
      “MOSCOW (Reuters) – Russian President Vladimir Putin said on Sunday that he saw nothing criminal in Hunter Biden’s past business ties with Ukraine or Russia, marking out his disagreement with one of Donald Trump’s attack lines in the U.S. presidential election.”
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:35pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Facebook has been giving me stick about this. I did not make a post, I shared a post from my newsfeed that had a link to Gateway Pundit, which linked to GTV where you can see the videos.
  At least 4 FB mods have warned me and taken the shared posts down. Fuck, I only just got out of FB jail for sharing other stuff. This is censorship; how about FB going to the original posters?
  One has to ask “why are Facebook protecting the Bidens?”
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:29pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Or ask, ‘why is Facebook trying to protect its own reputation’?
    
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    October 26, 2020 2:20pm
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Their forum, their rules. Why should you care about what FB decides to do? They definitely don’t care about you. Find another forum…..
    
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    October 26, 2020 8:45pm
G152

Windows 10 update doesn’t
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October 26, 2020 8:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Windows is working on its self destruction. Typical of programmers, they won’t leave well enough alone.
  Code eventually gets beyond maintenance. Windows has turned from useful to a doz-all. However it’s simplicity, which was reasonable, has gone. Experts are now required to navigate the menus and to use the multitude of hidden modules.
  
  I have Win 10 but this is coming to you on my Linux MX-19 system running on a $30 generation 2 Intel I5 with a similar priced monitor. Win 7 runs as task when needed and other Windows code happily runs too under Linux, including client accounting. I published my bio using it including editing the graphics. The Linux software is free and its as fresh as the update this morning.
  Too much money is wasted on basic computing.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:48am
  - Batman
    
    I sympathise with the Linux crowd but you are in danger of sounding a bit ‘old man shouts at clouds’ on this one. If you’re using Linux you are absolutely in the 1% of edge cases for computing.
    
    Yes software gets more complex but the huge improvements in day-to-day useability and lifespan of devices running W10 is more of a benefit to the hundreds of millions of average users.
    
    The complaints about updates etc are usually related to very specific situations with poor custom drivers and the old chestnut of people who treat change as bad.
    
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    October 26, 2020 12:16pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      My wife uses it and the kids have only changed for the latest games. (Cell phone users encounter it too as Android.)
      There are excellent versions out there with all the simplicity that once was windows. It doesn’t need to be techy, my present version’s a tad that way but I chose it for versatility, reliability and speed. Most Linux versions are free and fast which can make old discarded hardware, gummed up from excessive software demands, very usable.
      
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      October 26, 2020 1:40pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    If it is not broken, then don’t fix it. But then the programmers would not have a job
    
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    October 26, 2020 1:32pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That seems to be what drives versions.
      
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      October 26, 2020 1:42pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Plus the updates. Windows XP was great, but if you reinstalled it took about 3 hours to do the updates.
        Were those update really important? or just to piss you off and move to the next windows program?
        
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        October 26, 2020 4:04pm
Swifty

If of interest, Gail “The Candy Bomber” Holvorsen turned 100 two weeks ago. Here’s a great doco:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGc4vY_GwSc

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gail_Halvorsen

A wonderful human being.
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October 26, 2020 8:19am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Long but mesmerizing video. Thanks for the link.
  
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  October 26, 2020 11:01am
Tomtoddy

Here is a line from a Stuff article this morning.

“Now the country is steeped in inclusivity and has a real thirst for transformational government”.

It is not ‘news’. In terms of true journalistic opinion it does qualify either. It is actually manipulation or an unsubtle form of propaganda. Somebody claims “inclusivity” and “transformational”. The media report it. The same media then extol it. Sitting in front of their typewriters interviewing their own handiwork they then decide “everyone’s doing it”. Suddenly, “the country is steeped”, with a “real thirst”.

It gratuitous, circular nonsense. It is the product of self important, pompous lightweights. It is meaningless waffle.

But it is also dangerous. It is our MSM on a crusade. Much of our media is now a fully fledged lobby group who should be treated as such, marginalised to the ranks of a trade union or a pressure group. Social media are hooked up as well. Anything too offensive to the cause of “inclusivity” and “transformational government” simply disappears.

We used to deride the East German Stasi, the KGB, Poland’s UB but we have them among us in the Western World – slightly more polite but equally subversive.

How long before blogs are ‘registered’?
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October 26, 2020 8:19am
- Ruahine
  
  An expert summary of this pervasiveness of control that the population has allowed itself to succumb to.
  It is almost Medieval in that there is only one correct dogma or way of thinking. The same sort of thinking that one sees in the Middle East especially Saudi Arabia.
  You must wear masks. You must cover your face and hair. There will be no exceptions. Unless you are a rule maker.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:48am
  - Ruahine
    
    I missed out the Chinese method of ‘Social Credit’. It is already working here. Businesses are usurped into ‘do as you are told’ or you do not get get ‘govt’ assistance.
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:08am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    there is only one correct dogma or way of thinking.
    
    and that’s the only way some folks can function..
    https://notrickszone.com/2020/10/25/greta-green-movement-let-mask-slip-tweet-exposes-their-true-face-tyranny-with-no-choices/
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:30am
- cmm
  
  “How long before blogs are ‘registered’?”
  
  What do you think moderation is?
  
  No need to register etc if the people willingly inflict it on themselves.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:08am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Moderation is to remove the most distasteful craziness, and to reduce legal risk for the blog owner in hosting defamatory or criminals comments.
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:17am
    - cmm
      
      Oh nonsense.
      
      Please recall what happened when moderation kicked in post Tarrant.
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:40am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Oh, I do. a number of the craziest commenters left, and a more civil standard of discourse has resulted.
        
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        October 26, 2020 11:27am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        The system in place prior to moderation didn’t work, did it?
        
        Anonymous posters repeatedly used Kiwiblog as a platform to abuse and defame other posters as they knew there were no effective sanctions.
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:02pm
      - Batman
        
        Mike and Maggie are right, the moderation is pretty light and prevents just the real edge cases of offensive and potentially legally risky comments.
        
        Besides, nobody has a licence to be a dickhead just because they can be.
        
        Just look at the guy who was surprised to get fired after abusing an old lady in a Costco for wearing a Biden shirt. Actions have consequences when you’re a massive douche.
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:20pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      And yet mike, you’re still here. So clearly it’s not working the way you say it is.
      
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      October 26, 2020 12:09pm
      - Batman
        
        Being an arsehole is natural to some people, and not necessarily Mike.
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:17pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        That makes a lot of sense Batman, hence an uptick from me
        
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        October 26, 2020 1:35pm
- Prince
  
  That would have to be Jane Bowron. She writes every Monday in celebration of Labour, and attacking National. Has done for years.
  It goes under the ‘Opinion’ heading, although I’m not sure ‘Labour Good/National Bad’ counts for much of an opinion, more a childish chant.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:51am
  - MCos
    
    Don’t get that sort of thing here.
    
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    October 26, 2020 1:55pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Labour have an effective, dedicated, PR team which create and manipulate issues. They don’t stop.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:53am
  - Paulus
    
    Even the so called media are controlled by the Ardern Cult people but have no idea that they were used by them in the election and for two years before.
    It is costing a huge amount of our money, sub rosa.
    
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    October 26, 2020 10:37am
  - MCos
    
    I would suggest the Party with the most effective PR team at disseminating blatant lies was Advance NZ.
    Thus far they have picked up far more votes than ACT in the whole of the the 2017 Election.
    Unfortunately for the Nats the issues manipulated them.
    
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    October 26, 2020 10:40am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The only thing Labour is good at. Top notch propaganda corps
    
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    October 26, 2020 10:52am
  - kowtow
    
    Yes , known by its initials : TVNZ/RNZ/NZME
    
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    October 26, 2020 11:02am
- oldfella
  
  TT: this reminds me of the 2009 Newsweek cover of Obama (who’d only been in office for two weeks), dressed-up like FDR, with the slogan ‘We Are All Socialists Now’.
  Lefty projection gone mad. I suspect this Stuffed wish-fantasy will also not age well.
  
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  October 26, 2020 10:29am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Great points. For the record, I reject the woke definition of “inclusivity” and I’ve always rejected the concept of diversity for its own sake.
  
  We are hard-wired over millennia to do certain things for the sake of the species. These include rejecting those we perceive as abnormal or “other” as well as being attracted to those with regular features, which we’re programmed to find attractive.
  
  It amuses and confuses me that people like Attenborough create wonderful series about how all kinds of creatures are programmed to act out certain behaviours to ensure the survival of their species, yet when we do the same we’re pilloried for not being “inclusive”.
  
  Also for the record, I believe in live-and-let-live with regard to homosexuals, but if I was King I would ban gay marriage overnight. For the simple reason that if it weren’t for science intervening, 100% homosexuality would mean the end of the human species within a generation, and I think that’s a bad thing.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:58pm
I remember when

The National Institutes of Health state, obesity and overweight together are the second biggest cause of preventable death in USA after smoking.
An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic. The biology of obesity includes impaired immunity, chronic inflammation and blood that’s inclined to clot.
An international team of researchers, who pooled data from scores of peer-reviewed papers, found that people were 113% more likely to land in hospital, 74% more like to to be admitted to ICU and 48% more likely to die from covid.
CDC report that for covid:
Obesity increases risk of severe illness.
Being obese may triple risk of hospitalisation.
As BMI increases, the risk of death from covid increases.
Studies show obesity may be linked to lower vaccine responses for influenza.
Rates of self-reported obesity for Hispanic adults 33.8%, Black adults (NH) 39.8% and White adult (NH) 29.9%.
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October 26, 2020 8:35am
- cmm
  
  The biggest problem with BMI stats is the hard cut-off at BMI 30 for calling someone obese.
  
  Sure, BMI 30 makes many problems worse, but reality is that it’s a sliding scale. BMIs up in the 40s or higher are much more of a problem.
  
  Why this matters is that for many people, reducing BMI from, say, 45 to 30 seems an impossible target but they would get huge benefits from just reducing their BMI to 40.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:07am
  - PhilBest
    
    There actually is such a thing as statistically obese people with otherwise good health indicators, and a whole cohort of “unhealthy skinny”.
    
    If people are going to be treated punitively, it needs to be based on a range of indicators, not just a BMI. If someone statistically obese says they absolutely cannot shed kilos, in spite of eating and living healthily, and they have low cholesterol, healthy blood pressure, good flexibility and function, where is the problem?
    
    The orthodox dietary advice obese people are given simply does not work for many of them; it is cutting carbs that works, going keto and getting energy calories mostly from fat. But the mainstream experts throw up their hands in horror at the suggestion and tell these people they should be living on “whole grains”, yadda, yadda, yadda. The failure to recognize that for some people at least, the most harm is from carbs, ANY carbs, is actually what is killing some people.
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:28am
    - oldfella
      
      PB: unfortunately, the dietary advice out there is so full of competing voices it’s hard for most people to know what to believe. For instance, for every heart specialist on YouTube recommending keto, there’s another equally-well-credentialed specialist decrying it and recommending plant based/vegan as the only way to go.
      And as for getting specialist to agree on cholesterol levels, and the safety of statins… well good luck with that.
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:37am
      - artemisia
        
        Then there is the demon salt. Quite a few years ago I read a long article in IIIRC The Atlantic. The net of which was, yes salt can be problematic for some people, but not for most people, but the issue is determining which group is which. Maybe the science has moved on since.
        
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        October 26, 2020 11:34am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Any diet regime has to result in a healthy lifestyle which is habitual with tolerance for variety. It has to be able to allow for a random occasional excess.
      I faced choices when I needed to get my weight down to keep diabetes II under control without insulin. Effectively people through the world eat different diets and they mostly thrive. We need a basic calorie load and less than that habitually leads to weight loss. So less than 1800 Cals in for the day and we are probably having to use our fat stores for energy. That’s true for most of us.
      
      I found that I could fashion a practical regime of under 1500 cals a day by aiming for 1350 total. That gives 3 meals of an average of 450 Cals each.
      I’m not going to state a diet here but that limit allows for a wide choice of foods both nourishing and satisfying. It does not limit the type and if there is a bit of an excess of one that’s not a problem. It’s keeping an eye on the overall daily self limit that gives results. A little counting may be required but exactitude is not needed–this is not an arithmetic test. There are look-up guides giving approximate Cal/portion. Fussiness is no help: a piece of toast is about 75, it’s not important if it is 65 or 85, about 6 pieces or equivalent makes a meal. It doesn’t take long to get the hang of substituting equivalents and many choice items have so little (under 20 Cals) they can be ignored. The 1350 Cal notional limit has plenty of tolerance to cover daily variations.
      Once the desired weight is attained an increase to maintenance weight can be stepped up to. By then you will probably have established new eating habits.
      
      This way I eat largely what pleases including eating out (not all food, particularly high protein ones, are “junk food”.) My weight has remained constant at 74Kg for the past few years.
      
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      October 26, 2020 10:37am
      - theoldbloke
        
        I eat what I like, but only eat when I am hungry.
        
        NOT because its breakfast, lunch, Dinner time.
        Consistent weight for last 50 years. around 72-76kg
        
        Works for me. 🙂
        
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        October 26, 2020 2:06pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Pish posh!
  
  I like eating and I can’t be assed going for a walk – it’s my choice to blame the state for this predicament (and man has that made my life easier…)
  
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  October 26, 2020 11:12am
- Pharmachick
  
  You do have to be a tad careful of NIH advice. They primarily support medical/biomedical research. Hence, they’re not a public health agency (although the worlds “premiere” public health agency [CDC] is currently MIA).
  
  Concrete examples:
  
  (1) The BMI measure is notoriously biased to white people of European descent. It doesn’t apply well to anybody of Polynesian descent (almost always returns overweight/obese) or East Asian descent (commonly returns “underweight”). By BMI status most of the fallbacks are obese…
  
  (2) The food pyramid was made up out of whole cloth by a bunch of scientists (and very few nutritionists) at NIH. They just made it up one day.
  
  Anyhow, here’s an interesting review on dietary guidance in the USA over the last 100 years.
  
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5916427/
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:11pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    *ha ha ha “fallbacks”… I meant All Blacks
    
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    October 26, 2020 1:12pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Polynesians would have a problem as a large body size can be culturally appropriate. I suspect it a factor of living in the Islands where hurricanes devastate crops regularly. Chiefly families are expected to have a noticeably higher body mass and survive better. Fat has become an a measure of beauty. Skinny Chiefs’s daughters are not to be seen. A body type may have evolved accordingly and arrived here through migration.
    
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    October 26, 2020 1:58pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Yes that is the prevailing evolutionary theory.
      
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      October 26, 2020 3:27pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I saw it live in my 7 years in the Pacific.
        
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        October 26, 2020 5:08pm
Durden

Holidays for Matariki and now Divali ?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300141981/plea-to-make-diwali-a-public-holiday

Will Ramadan be far behind. Not if hugger hijabi has anything to do with this.

Time to change laws to cap holidays at present levels and redefine four current holidays as “Optional Holidays” which people of diverse communities who want to differences can utilise without taxing the economy overall.

The subcontinent seems to have been doing this for a long time. Even some states in the US do this now.
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October 26, 2020 8:44am
- cmm
  
  I’m guessing that holidays for Robbie Burns etc are off the table.
  
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  October 26, 2020 8:57am
- KH
  
  Happy to see more public holidays. Matariki, Dawali, St Fred whatever.
  See not reason at all for them to be paid days.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:01am
  - Bob
    
    Some NZ residents already have 365 holidays a year,
    funded by
    welfare,..ooops the motivated working but steadily shrinking number who are actually paying TAX
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:45am
- Bill
  
  What about Klingon new year?
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:30am
  - fernglas
    
    Since one Klingon years takes 23 Earth years to elapse, there should not be a substantial imposition on employers. On the other hand, when it does arrive, the New Year celebrations take 23 Earth days.
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:38am
  - Jack5
    
    ? quvmoH tlhInganpu’. ghu’vam vIje’meH ‘e’ qaghojmoHlaH’a’?
    
    I’ll back that one Bill, if we must have endless public holidays and still more days with multi-religious names.
    
    It’s a return to Medieval times: all feast days and superstition to keep minds off the plague.
    
    Klingon New Year: fireworks, especially rockets, and bottles of rocket fuel all round. DIS chu’ DatIvjaj!
    
    Klingon for our Fourth language and save the interGalactic tourism industry!
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:46am
- artemisia
  
  Soon people will be able to take one of their new sick days on their choice of holiday. Fortunately for work scheduling they will be able to let the boss know well in advance.
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:47am
- KevO'Brien
  
  No way. Christians cannot accept any except Easter.
  
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  October 26, 2020 10:40am
- Jules99
  
  It works in the Northern Hemisphere because Christmas is a short break, and many businesses remain open. Those who don’t celebrate Christmas can work through and take time off on other days. In the Southern Hemisphere Christmas is the start of our main holiday period, so many businesses close for the season, so you can’t go in to work. My recommendation for migrants who really don’t want to have the Christmas period off is to move to a Northern Hemisphere country.
  
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  October 26, 2020 12:56pm
- Loddenthinks
  
  I’ll be marching in the streets, colander on my head, arm-in-arm with my Pastafarian brothers (and sisters), if more religious holidays are decreed that do NOT include one for the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bless his noodly self).
  
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  October 26, 2020 9:09pm
Jack5

Stuff, etc, full of opinions of what caused National’s poor score in the elections. More diversity is one of the solutions offered, yet it was diversity that the vote trimmed from National.

I don’t read the view that thousands of citizens held their noses and switched party votes to Labour hoping a non-coalition government would keep out the Greens.
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October 26, 2020 9:36am
- Paulus
  
  Labour will not have a coalition but will have the Greens in the tent in many ways.
  Foolish people !
  
  12 1
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  October 26, 2020 10:39am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Is there any hard evidence that thousands of voters did that?
  
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  October 26, 2020 2:51pm
  - Jack5
    
    My opinion is based on conversations with those family, relatives and friends who are usually National voters, and who say they gave their party vote to Labour to “keep out the Greens”.
    
    Can you get “hard evidence” from secret votes, Albert?
    
    Even statistical samples of voters interviewed would rely on: 1/all voters being prepared to tell the interviewer how they voted, and the interviewer will be a stranger to the interviewee; 2/ the interviewed voter being truthful (more of a problem for a pollster stranger than for a friend or family member).
    
    Many South Island party votes swung to Labour in rural areas, with a much less drastic swing in electorate voting.
    
    Many southerners of my acquaintance regard the Greens as an extreme Leftist group, with their environmentalism a secondary goal.
    
    A party vote for Labour was, for these folk, something like Churchill “supping with the Devil” when he allied with Stalin to fight the Nazis.
    
    From the proverb: He who sups with the devil should have a long spoon.
    
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    October 26, 2020 9:34pm
Liberty

Crap writing by a stuff hack.
“A loveable dork.” “A nerd.” “I know he’s a little goober but I respect him.”
What a condescending ….

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300140171/election-2020-the-strategic-error-that-cost-winston-peters–and-boosted-a-determined-wily-david-seymour
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October 26, 2020 9:44am
- Inandout
  
  Andrea Vance? Good God.
  
  20 1
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  October 26, 2020 10:20am
- Pharmachick
  
  I will admit to having expressed a similar opinion on this blog. In my case it’s a sincerely held opinion.
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:14pm
Catgurl13

Hmmmm another lockdown coming before Xmas?…wow what a surprise not!!…afterall we have new clusters just in time for it to happen!!
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/10/coronavirus-officials-address-leaked-lockdown-plans-after-social-media-rumours-speculate-an-alert-level-move-planned-for-november.html
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October 26, 2020 9:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  “An alert level change is a careful decision made by a group of ministers or Cabinet, after advice from senior officials including the Director-General of Health, in the event of community transmission,” she told Newshub.
  
  These are the people who gave is tywfordism through their inability to do nothing. Now they take advice from sycophantic cronies.
  The Ministers have a duty of care which they are plainly not capable of exercising. Do they have to be sued for this manifest deficiency?
  Would a Grand Coalition allowing the others to contribute their executive skill not be the best temporary option. Labour are out of their depth without lifejackets.
  
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  October 26, 2020 10:50am
- Ipanema69
  
  I would take a slightly different view. I suspect an L3 lockdown in Auckland in December would be a government nightmare. Even with a sympathetic media playing ball the overall message would be Jacinda has cancelled Christmas.
  
  The majority of domestic holiday spend in the regions would evaporate, a further economic blow to already suffering businesses.
  
  In a more general sense I think that public support for lockdowns will evaporate in 2021. Psychologically most people have written off 2020 as a lost cause. Like or not the majority of the population will go into 2021 with the expectation that it will be a better year.
  
  If it is not (and it wont be) things will turn very quickly against the government.
  
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  October 26, 2020 11:48am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Cindy saves lives bro. People will bw eternally grateful.
    
    0 0
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    October 26, 2020 1:18pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I expect the gov to turn against itself. Their cockiness based on no-action is going to visit.
    
    4 3
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    October 26, 2020 2:01pm
  - Dr p
    
    I thought Jacinda replaced Christmas
    
    0 0
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    October 26, 2020 2:17pm
- MCos
  
  I see there’s a vacancy at NZ Advance with Billy TK buggering off to start some other, as yet unannounced, grift, Cat Gurl.
  If you’re keen on peddling this sort of stuff maybe you should send off your cv.
  
  2 1
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  October 26, 2020 12:23pm
  - Catgurl13
    
    Pfffttt…….I’m only showing what others have already posted.
    
    0 2
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    October 26, 2020 2:50pm
GazzaW

Auckland Transport endlessly harangue us and make motorist’s lives a misery with their obsession with bus and cycle lanes all in the name of reducing pollution. I have just returned home after following in the wake of an Auckland Metro bus (reggo FAW4) that was belching clouds of filthy grey exhaust fumes. Hypocrites!
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October 26, 2020 10:17am
- cmm
  
  All the bus and cycle lanes reduce the carrying capacity of the road.
  This increase congestion and impedes traffic flow.
  This increases engine run times and stop/start traffic.
  This massively increases the pollution levels caused by vehicles – particularly partially burned soot etc.
  
  20 2
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  October 26, 2020 10:58am
  - doggone7
    
    Yep, Mike Hosking has it – get rid of bikes and bike lanes and public transport. Come back to Auckland 20 years after that happens and see everything moving smoothly and another 20 years after that even better.
    
    11 3
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    October 26, 2020 11:05am
- Catgurl13
  
  Agreed!….If you are so lucky to come up along side one of those lovely busses,you have to do your windows up and turn the aircon off to prevent the revolting toxic fumes entering your car!!!
  
  4 3
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  October 26, 2020 11:23am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  You voted for Phil Goof. So take it.
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:20pm
I remember when

The arguments about the relevance of BMI are well known. The problems with measuring the potential health of our Polynesian and sports people have been well documented.
Does high BMI mean that those over 30 (say) should take extra care sometimes regardless of other health indicators? Is our growing stature from generation to generation part of the growing obesity figures.
Does having a higher BMI (even as a result of genetics) mean that your energy output is greater so results in need for higher energy input.
Is this fine while young and/or engaged in high energy physical exercise but results in need for much greater care in later life.
The higher muscle mass means the effects of increasing weight are less apparent at first. You can still engage physical activity and put changes down to getting older.
I did baulk at the BMI but wanted to include all points mentioned.
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October 26, 2020 10:32am
- Pharmachick
  
  Nice call – I posted something similar up thread before I saw this.
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:16pm
Loddenthinks

Very well done to Scott Dixon, sealing his 6th Indy Car Championship this morning in Florida. If Josef Newgarden won the race (he did) then Dixon had to stay out of trouble and finish 9th or better. Driving an absolute masterful race in terms of avoiding trouble, sticking to the strategy, and still being competitive, Dixon managed to keep his nose(cone) clean and finish 3rd in the race, and comfortably win the championship.

He now has 6 titles, just one behind the legendary AJ Foyt, and plenty more to come. Bravo Scott!
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October 26, 2020 10:36am
- oldfella
  
  LT: and with Scott McLaughlin switching to IndyCars it will make for an interesting battle of the Kiwis.
  BTW, surprised Dixon never got a crack at the more glamorous Formula One. Obviously a superb, world-class driver and would have thought F1 teams were lining up to give him a crack at it.
  
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  October 26, 2020 10:43am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think he had F1 test drives at one stage. A tough gig to crack.
    
    7 6
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    October 26, 2020 11:56am
    - Batman
      
      Yes he did. With Williams as I recall.
      
      A very hard thing to get into without substantial financial backing, even as far back as when Scott tested.
      
      7 2
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      October 26, 2020 11:58am
      - oldfella
        
        I wonder if Scott McLaughlin will get an F1 audition at some stage? And if Scott Dixon too old to be given another shot, or is he making to much money, and enjoying too much fame, to even bother?
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:23pm
      - Batman
        
        I think Scott M is too old even now. He might get a test perhaps if he comes out and wins the championship next year. He would need big financial backing from another brand that isn’t Shell though. They have their Ferrari deal and aren’t looking like they will be open to changing drivers given they have Leclerc, Sainz, and Mick Schumacher on their books.
        
        Scott D is too old for sure and I think if I was him I wouldn’t do it. Better to cash in with Indycar and enjoy that Ford GT I recently bought…
        
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        October 26, 2020 12:32pm
  - rangitoto
    
    He did test for Williams back in 2004.
    
    4 1
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    October 26, 2020 11:58am
    - Batman
      
      Snap, Williams it was.
      
      1 3
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      October 26, 2020 12:24pm
  - bruceavon
    
    He did have a test with Williams, but he had a bit of bad luck with gear and the weather. Not a common path from indie to F1. He had one chance and had to really do something outstanding to get a chance. A shame. They all come from carting.
    
    4 1
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    October 26, 2020 12:02pm
- Philview
  
  You got a downtick from someone?? Does someone on this site not like Scott Dixon?
  
  6 7
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  October 26, 2020 11:07am
  - Batman
    
    Apparently someone doesn’t like discussion of Scott Dixon and Williams F1??
    
    Very confusing.
    
    5 5
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    October 26, 2020 12:24pm
  - PhilBest
    
    And 4 downticks for that observation? I don’t get it.
    
    I’d say the original downticker is one of this forum’s greenie pearl-clutchers at the thought of the impact of motorsport on the Gaia Earth Mother
    
    9 5
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    October 26, 2020 12:29pm
    - fernglas
      
      It’s nothing business, strictly personal.
      
      0 2
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      October 26, 2020 1:03pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      It’s Greta. Anything to do with burning fuel that pollutes, she downticks //
      
      6 4
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      October 26, 2020 1:47pm
Swifty

Stuff columnist calls for more government intervention in and regulation of markets to reduce the cost of living in NZ:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/opinion/123193640/govt-needs-to-target-our-soaring-cost-of-living

She even calls for price regulation.

Hmmmmm.
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October 26, 2020 10:40am
- artemisia
  
  So she says housing, food and childcare all too expensive. Notice she didn’t mention the cost of contraception.
  
  8 2
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  October 26, 2020 11:59am
  - sooty
    
    Abstinence is free!
    But not enjoyable!
    
    1 0
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    October 26, 2020 1:03pm
- RJ
  
  Good, we do need to look at this and one of the first places to look that contribute to the cost of living is the price of petrol and the huge amount of taxes on it.
  
  7 0
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  October 26, 2020 12:03pm
  - Swifty
    
    A good point.
    
    6 1
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    October 26, 2020 12:16pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    There is no mystery about the cost of petrol. The “tax” (petrol excise) on petrol pays for transport expenditure (and for the transport fund at ACC). There is also the ETS but it is not really significant at current carbon prices. I have no issues with the fuel excise. The real issue is the massive diversion of the excise to paying for public transport and cycleways.
    
    So yes we could have cheaper petrol, but roads would still need to be funded from some other source.
    
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    October 26, 2020 1:35pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  What a muppet. Those things are expensive BECAUSE OF government regulation.
  
  On housing, why are houses in Arizona and Texas affordable, despite booming population growth there over the last 20 years? Answer: no RMA equivalent and light handed zoning, and responsive supply of urban land.
  
  On childcare, the Government regulates the hell out of it, and the unions force up the price of a child care worker to the same as a high school teacher.
  
  Honestly, forget making Maori language compulsory. Making folk study at least basic economics, physics, and chemistry at school would go a long way.
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:40pm
- Faroffsound
  
  “These complicated issues can be addressed by policymakers who now enjoy an uncomplicated stronghold on power.”
  
  So Jacinda and Co are now going to have to deliver on the expectations they have raised – this should be interesting!!
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:54pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Rising prices are because of the failed disable govt. Wait till they really get started. No work and massive payout to NZ must impact prices. Next we are going to feel the price level changes from outside NZ.
  I wish I could be more cheerful but we have amateurs out of their depth making life worse for all. It’s going to take a very strong able govt to keep a wage/price spiral under control over the coming year.
  
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  October 26, 2020 2:09pm
oldfella

Good post over on ‘No Minister’ re where to now for National.
https://nominister.wordpress.com/2020/10/25/where-to-national/
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October 26, 2020 10:55am
- Steve Todd
  
  Martyn Bradbury reckons “this result marks the death spiral of the [National] Party and that the Boomer dominance over political influence is now finally ended!”
  
  See his election “autopsy”, here: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2020/10/26/election-2020-autopsy/.
  
  4 2
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  October 26, 2020 1:31pm
  - gorse
    
    I call BS on Bradbury. This was an exceptional election, given Labour treated the Covid exercise as “war”. That plus the shooting, and National’s panic internal problems, did we expect a different result? I anticipate an economic collapse, particularly in the US over the next three years, we will go too if that happens. These people can’t run an economy in good times. Bad times are coming, they will be chucked out, that I am sure.
    
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    October 26, 2020 1:46pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Whatever. In 2016 at the height of the Andrew Little captaincy, I was wondering if the Labour Party was in a death spiral (it kind of was). I was not alone. But I was also mistaken.
    
    A severe economic downturn, and over-reaching on some issues (e.g taxing/banning of certain cars) and people will turn.
    
    That is exactly what happened on Ontario over a 100 percent renewables programme.
    
    https://www.toronto.com/opinion-story/7144988-opinion-ontario-s-renewable-energy-disaster-is-what-drives-up-the-cost-of-your-hydro/
    
    In 2018 election, the ruling Liberal Party suffered a 20 percent swing against it, and it went from 55 seats to 7 seats in the legislature. Because it massively over-reached on ‘green’ energy policies.
    
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    October 26, 2020 1:48pm
  - Inandout
    
    ST, you can hear Martyn ramble on Plunkett’s show 2pm Friday.
    
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    October 26, 2020 4:27pm
I remember when

Predator Free New Zealand 2050 (PF2050) DOC
We’ve been trying to protect wild populations with traps, bait stations, aerial control for decades, buying our native species breathing space.
PF2050 is a change to co-ordinated, progressive nationwide eradication. PF2050 aims to eradicate mustelids, rats and possum from all of New Zealand.
Predator free projects in Waiheke, Taranaki, Hawke’s Bay, Wellington, Dunedin and Rakiua are underway. DOC’s national co-ordinated predator control programme ‘Takina Nga Manu’ had increased DOC’s annual predator control from an average of 200,000 to 1 million.
Aside from the large scale projects over 1,200 projects led by whanau, hapu, iwi and communities undertake predator control.
There will be a need to resolve new issues such as thinking about the ecological consequencies of removing some predators from the broader community of pests. (Remove mustelids and what happens to rabbit and mice populations)
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October 26, 2020 11:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Need predator control in the bees nest as well
  
  3 2
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  October 26, 2020 1:49pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Time for comprehensive religious education in our schools?

We only need to look to Singapore as an example, where students develop a well-rounded education in the Islamic religion while being imbued with Singapore’s unique multi-religious and multicultural values.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/a-case-for-teaching-islam-in-schools
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October 26, 2020 11:45am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Teach religion in schools – no.
  Teach about religion in schools – yes
  Kids should learn about religion as part of a basic grounding in social studies.
  
  23 5
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  October 26, 2020 12:00pm
  - Jack5
    
    Our schoolies are predominantly Woke folk who don’t excel even at teaching maths or English, hence our slide in international comparisons.
    
    Our teachers already are teaching their own religion to kids – Leftist environmentalism.
    
    Trust them to teach Christianity fairly in comparison with Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Shintoism, Judaism, ten thousand indigenous religions, atheism and agnosticism and the Great Green Gaia cult? C’mon.
    
    Leftists want to take more and more social learning and socialisation away from family, friends, community. They want the State to be the mind factory.
    
    4 2
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    October 26, 2020 12:47pm
- Nutta
  
  Jacindaism is already an integral part if the school day.
  
  14 2
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  October 26, 2020 12:20pm
- Swifty
  
  He wants Islam taught in our schools so that we can be protected from Islam!
  
  Hahahahahaha!
  
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  October 26, 2020 12:48pm
RW Capitalist

Watching the increasing number of adds on tele, for world vision and such.
They are desperate for funds for the starving in Africa.
Funny how locking down an economy stopped donations to these organizations.
Now we have a bigger problem in Africa.
Or is it “out of sight, out of mind” and they are only Africans, after all.
Here we have some ridiculous “Green” candidate saying it is “systemic racism” because his uncle couldn’t get an oxygen mask to fit (neither could my wife) while ignoring people who are dying.
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October 26, 2020 11:57am
- Inandout
  
  RW, these starving ads have been around for many decades, just different actors. In fact one old timer told me they were playing African starving kids ads in the 1960’s for a dodgy organisation called Corso.
  
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  October 26, 2020 4:25pm
oldfella

‘People will die if families are allowed to spend Christmas together.’ So says the UK Covid modelling ‘expert’ who previously disgraced himself big time!
https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/10/25/people-will-die-if-they-spend-christmas-together-says-disgraced-fmr-uk-govt-scientist/
Note: this dork is their equivalent of our own Shaun Hendy of the infamous ‘80,000 Kiwis will die’ Covid hysteria. IIRC, Hendy even used Ferguson’s flawed modelling methods to make his own, risible, projections.
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October 26, 2020 12:09pm
- cmm
  
  I am pretty sure Hendy used these model.
  
  Having looked at the reports that Hendy’s group wrote, they look like they were based on Ferguson’s model.
  
  If that was not the case then Hendy would have had to do the following in about 5 weeks:
  1) Come up with an almost identical model.
  2) Got a program of a few thousand likes running.
  3) Tweaked it, tuned it etc for NZ.
  4) Wrote all the reports.
  5) while running the Hendy show in front of the media.
  
  10 2
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  October 26, 2020 12:41pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    @cmm – those models needed Bayesian adjustments months ago, any idea if that has happened? Also, any idea if they’re stochastic or is it a fixed effect model? I cannot seem to access the structure (haven’t tried that hard TBH), probably hanging about in R somewhere.
    
    Because there’s the old chestnut about doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome…
    
    5 2
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    October 26, 2020 1:23pm
    - gump
      
      The NZ modelling for Covid-19 was done with a fairly standard compartmentalised SEIR model.
      
      https://cpb-ap-se2.wpmucdn.com/blogs.auckland.ac.nz/dist/d/75/files/2017/01/Covid19_SEIR_model.pdf
      
      There are no stochastic factors. All the compartment transitions are based on fixed probabilities (except for the infection fatality rate which starts to increase once the ICU capacity is exhausted).
      
      It’s just a system of first order nonlinear ODEs. You can easily produce solutions with a numerical solver.
      
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      October 26, 2020 6:45pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Thank you Gump. Its not nearly as sophisticated as I had hoped… given that governments are getting advice here. Mind you parsimony vs. complexity argument probably also applies.
        
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        October 27, 2020 1:18pm
      - gump
        
        @Pharmachick
        
        SEIR models don’t need to be particularly sophisticated because the local errors cancel out if the compartment populations are large enough. The model does however make a number of first order approximations such as perfect mixing.
        
        I dusted off my Matlab books and got the model running after about four hours of effort (most of which was spent relearning how to pass the ODEs to the ode45 solver).
        
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        October 27, 2020 3:14pm
- Ruahine
  
  I think you are being far too lenient on Shaun Hendy saying he used flawed modelling. I think he was asked for a figure by Ardern and he just made up a number. 80,000 has a nice ring to it.
  
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  October 26, 2020 1:15pm
- Martin Williams
  
  It’s obvious, isn’t it?
  
  Have Christmas 2020 with granny and it will be her last.
  
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  October 26, 2020 2:40pm
Fletch

Trump released the whole of his 60 Minutes interview before it aired. Here’s a snippet, talking about Hunter Biden’s laptop. The reporter doesn’t think it is important. Trump is rightly incredulous over how they simply do not care about the greatest scandal to do with one of the election candidates – that Hunter Biden was taking money from the Ukraine, China, and Russia by leveraging access to his father Joe Biden (then Vice President), who also scooped up millions as part of the deals.

https://www.facebook.com/BlazeMedia/videos/264402361681754/
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October 26, 2020 12:42pm
I remember when

I don’t think the great majority of the population have any idea what teaching religion even means.
If we believe in freedom of speech and expression why is religion so often singled out? Surely, if freedom of speech/opinion means having to be able to evaluate information the same thing happens with religion.
If religion is so all pervading why do so few seem to be greatly influenced. Why do church schools not result in increased congregations for the providers.
What are people scared of?
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October 26, 2020 12:42pm
Ed Snack

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ElI2FlkWkAAdrgK?format=jpg&name=medium

Try this email from the Hunter Biden laptop, realise that shortly afterwards Joe Biden had PG Shokin fired, and try to persuade people that there wasn’t corrupt and improper behaviour.

Close down the legal cases against Nikolay in Ukraine, why should the US VPOTUS be concerned about that if not to preserve the flow of cash to his son ?

How about a genuine attempt to explain this, a no bullshit attempt ?
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October 26, 2020 12:54pm
Fletch

I couldn’t sleep early this morning, so turned on NewsTalkZB. They have a host there, I think it was Bruce Russell, and he is even more conservative than Hosking. Very good stuff.
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October 26, 2020 12:56pm
Sir Cullen's Sidekick

Prediction for National. Back in power in 2026.
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October 26, 2020 1:26pm
Swifty

Some wonderful footage of Cornwall from 1916, restored and colourised by AI:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9NeOACPBQsA
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October 26, 2020 3:16pm
Fletch

Apparently, during a 60 Minutes interview, Joe Biden commented on the Hunter laptop scandal as a “smear” and Russian disinformation. But they always let him off too easy. He can generalize the affair as a “smear” but he needs to be asked specifics. What’s a lie, Joe? Which part specifically? Is it Hunter’s laptop, yes or no? Which of the emails are incorrect Joe? Are Hunter’s two former business associates lying, too? Tony Bobulinski has three phones which pretty much confirm what we already know from the laptop. Hell, we have much more physical evidence than there was to impeach Trump. As well as the laptop, two actual named whistle blowers – not some anonymous guy who they interview in the basement of the Capitol building. Once you get down into the weeds of it, Biden has no defense. At the moment he is generalizing the stuff as a “smear”, but he can’t get into detail.
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October 26, 2020 5:30pm

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