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November 12, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 November 2020

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

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Happy World Pneumonia Day!
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November 12, 2020 8:00am
- MCos
  
  Nothing happy about pneumonia, mate!
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:57am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    A bit of a wheeze, surely?
    
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    November 12, 2020 1:43pm
- Jimmy White
  
  Just like you Mike to post a downer. Its National Happy Hour Day which would have been a much better choice.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:01am
- emmess
  
  It magically disappeared, earlier this year.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:05am
- Brian Marshall
  
  Down tick (I don’t usually down tick your xxx day posts) as nothing happy about pneumonia Mike.
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:21am
- Rachael Membery
  
  Very catchy
  
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  November 12, 2020 2:09pm
krazykiwi

Attributes of the Pfizer vaccine:

♦ Developed in a few months when most vaccines take 10+ years

♦ Uses ‘revolutionary’ messenger RNA mechanism which has never been used for vaccine delivery.

♦ Has no longitudinal studies showing side-effect risks

♦ Only tested on 18-55 year old patients (unconfirmed by Pfizer), when median age of death with Covid-19 is >80 years

♦ The manufacturer has been exempted from liability for any harm caused in patients

♦ Mass vaccinations planned with 50m doses ready for 2020 delivery, 10m of these for the UK

I’m going to be the consummate gentleman and wait at the back of the queue of before I roll my sleeve up for this large-scale human experiment.
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November 12, 2020 8:01am
- Scott
  
  krazy – you forget the main attribute of the Pfizer vaccine – was announced after the presidential election so that Joe Biden can do a victory lap and say that happy days are here again, we have beaten the virus.
  
  Second main attribute of the vaccine – was not announced before the election so that Donald Trump could not announce that we have found a vaccine and happy days are here again!
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:14am
  - Mrs_Right
    
    He can do all the victory laps he wants. Joe Biden is NOT President-elect. It’s a fact.
    
    None of the elections have been certified, and they’re still counting and will be recounting in probably several states.
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:30am
    - FatTony
      
      @Mrs Right – you’re wrong. The law says the President-Elect is the “apparent winner” of the election.
      
      It has nothing to do with certification of the state results.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:34am
      - MCos
        
        Technically Joe Biden is the presumptive President elect until the Electoral College votes on 14-Dec, at which stage he becomes the President elect as long as he get 270 votes.
        At present there is no reason why that won’t happen because for all his bluster Trump hasn’t produced anything other than unsubstantiated accusations with no proof of fraud.
        
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        November 12, 2020 1:04pm
    - JSelway
      
      Yeah and I bet after Trump was elected you were splitting the same hairs.
      
      There is no one more hypocritical than a Trump supporter.
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:34pm
  - NoCash
    
    Seriously?!
    
    Anyway, the Pfizer vaccine needs to be kept at -70C or below, distribution will be a challenge.
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:33am
    - Paulus
      
      But Cindy said that she would fix it at -70c.
      But she does not have clue about that she was talking – as usual.
      
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      November 12, 2020 11:26am
    - cmm
      
      -70C is not a big deal unless the band is pretty small.
      
      If the vaccine can tolerate down to -196, then just store them in liquid nitrogen.
      
      Storing and transporting stuff in liquid nitrogen is old hat and has been used for at least 50 years on a regular basis for artificial insemination etc.
      
      If, however, it needs to be kept in a tighter band (eg -70 to -100) then that’s going to be harder to solve.
      
      The other common easy to use gas is CO2 but that needs a pressure vessel which makes things more exciting (and it only gets to -56).
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:38pm
      - NoCash
        
        Fair enough and good to know cmm. That said, when considering the sheer scale of such undertaking, we’re talking about hundreds of millions of doses in the US alone, it’s not a trivial task.
        
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        November 12, 2020 1:40pm
      - cmm
        
        NoCash: Liquid nitrogen is cheap and easy to get and manage.
        
        One of my customers gets a tanker load dropped off every now and then. Must be a few thousand litres at a go.
        
        At universities the stuff is pretty much available on tap.
        
        You only need a few ml of the stuff per dose. I’d say 5ml tops. Allowing for packaging etc we’re talking about maybe 10ml per dose. That means a million doses would take up 10 cubic metres:
        2m x 2m x 2.5metres.
        
        A million doses could easily fit in the back of one medium sized truck – even with all the liquid nitrogen.
        
        In short, keeping the stuff chilled to those levels is not a big deal.
        
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        November 12, 2020 4:49pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      Closer to -100C… nightmare for distribution.
      
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      November 12, 2020 5:02pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Would love to see some credible evidence to backup your assertion that “it wasn’t announced before the election so that Trump” (etc).
    
    They were locked in a high-stakes global race to develop a vaccine; it makes no sense that they would risk losing billions of dollars of income by essentially winning the race but keeping quiet about it.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:10am
    - krazykiwi
      
      From 27th October: No news on Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine is good news — and bad news
      
      Pfizer revealed Tuesday that researchers have not yet conducted an analysis of the efficacy of the vaccine it is developing against Covid-19.
      
      Also Pfizer C.E.O. All but Rules Out Vaccine Before Election Day
      
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      November 12, 2020 9:16am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Given that within days of the election Pfizer confirm it’s now all go, and have production runs sorted it is – for me – difficult to believe there was no political motivation in the timing.
      
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      November 12, 2020 9:20am
      - C J Southern
        
        I agree 100% It IS difficult for you to believe there was no political timing.
        
        I can just imagine the Pfizer boardroom: “I’m pleased to announce that we’ve beaten dozens of other companies in this time-critical race to produce an effective vaccine. I suggest we now keep it to ourselves and risk losing our advantage so Trump doesn’t get any credit (a) despite it being developed without any US $$$ and (b) despite it being developed on Trump’s shift”.
        
        So yeah – makes perfect sense. Not.
        
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        November 12, 2020 9:54am
      - sooty
        
        Yer, but it was made in Mr Trumps time!
        
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        November 12, 2020 9:56am
      - Fletch
        
        Pfizer decided not to take money for R&D funding, but contracted to sell 100 million doses of the vaccine to the U.S. government if it proved effective and safe.
        
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        November 12, 2020 10:37am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        C J Southern could you at least donate to KK’s hanky supply – he’s running out.
        
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        November 12, 2020 10:37am
      - Jim
        
        Reading the Stat article it seems these interim results weren’t known until after the election and confirmed until Sunday.
        
        There was no guarantee they would have had anything to report given that they discussed raising the interim case threshold “in late October”. That was due to criticism “from experts who worried that, even if it was statistically valid, these interim analyses would not provide enough data”
        
        Turns out they were pleasantly surprised.
        
        I guess the takeaway here is that they had a lot more COVID cases in their samples than they expected based on earlier tests. I wonder if this is because of the skyrocketing case count in the USA – bound to be lots of volunteers in their study based here.
        
        In which case in a twist of irony, Trump did help accelerate their study. 🙂
        
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        November 12, 2020 10:40am
      - cmm
        
        Jim, there is no possible way that they went from no information to heaps of information in 2 or 3 days.
        
        For at least the last few weeks they would have had very promising results.
        
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        November 12, 2020 12:40pm
      - Jim
        
        It’s not a case of “no information to heaps of information” if you read the Stat article. They were just waiting for the number of cases of COVID-19 in their volunteer group to exceed a threshold.
        
        They paused testing and put samples in storage while they discussed a new threshold with the FDA in late October. This was after criticism that their 32 case threshold was too low.
        
        When they resumed testing they found they had 94 cases. So it appears cases are appearing in their samples faster than they had been previously.
        
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        November 12, 2020 1:02pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        No, they’ve been moving at light speed. Trust me, they care WAAAAAY more about their bottom line (share price, investors etc) than who is the POTUS.
        
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        November 12, 2020 5:03pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      Probably just coincidence. I mean days after the presidential announcement. Sure. Could be. Like the coincidence when Jacinda said that there had been no covid for weeks and we were receiving lots of international acclaim, but also said everyone should stock up on masks? And then days later right after we reached our 100 day covid status and received all the international media, lo and behold someone did have covid and they had been off work for quite some time.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:43am
  - SGA
    
    you forget the main attribute of the Pfizer vaccine…
    
    And what exactly did Trump do to Big Pharma to warrant such an underhand conspiracy?
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:42am
  - RoboRob
    
    I’m a Pfizer shareholder and have been following this closely for months. I seem to have a better understanding of this than most of the media reporting it, especially with regards to distribution.
    
    1. The intention was to release details earlier however the process is a ‘double blind’ study where Pfizer itself were restricted from the information gathered in testing until the ‘test board’ felt they had accurate enough information. Becuase so few Covid cases amoungst test subjects were reported this took longer the Pfizer expected.
    
    2. The Pfizer CEO said he would provide information as soon as he had it. He has been criticised by some for giving out the test results he did becuase they have yet to reach the target 190 odd covid infections.
    
    So while it could look like a Anti Trump conspiracy it’s likely not. Pfizer wants the drug out ASAP, delaying results hurts them financially. They have been mass producing the drug for some weeks already, that costs money. The sooner they can ship the better for Pfizer and the world.
    
    3. The Transport thing is a big non issue. Pfizer hasn’t been waiting for results to start thinking about transportation, the media haven’t done the research on this and have interviewed their typewriters. In the US they have rolled out additional cold storage facilities (whcih are common place anyway). Pfizer have acually built and tested a box with dry ice that can transfport and store 850-5000 doses at the required temperatures for up to 10 days. The concept is they will drop ship boxes with the required amounts for Pfizer distribution direct to vacination points. Once at a vacination point it can be stored in a regular freezer for aabout a day while doses are administered. Complex but hardly impossible to manage.
    
    https://abcnews.go.com/Health/pfizer-win-covid-vaccine-race-distributing-matter/story?id=72862724
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:22am
    - C J Southern
      
      Good rational stuff. You will now be down-ticked mercilessly …
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:12pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        He wasn’t. I up-ticked!
        
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        November 12, 2020 2:40pm
    - Pharmachick
      
      I am a professional Pharmacologist advising Goevernments (mostly therapeutics, not vaccines) in this crisis. But don’t mistake that, I started out inHIV and understand vaccines well. I’d agree you are mostly right…
      
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      November 12, 2020 5:06pm
  - alloytoo
    
    And everyone scoffed when Trump said a vaccine was weeks away.
    
    ROTFLOL.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:45am
    - Batman
      
      It’s a German vaccine, not from operation warpspeed
      
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      November 12, 2020 11:48am
      - cmm
        
        Is it German?
        
        Pfizer has always been an American company started by a person of German ancestry.
        
        Bayer is the big German company.
        
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        November 12, 2020 12:44pm
      - Billy Collins
        
        False, Batman.
        
        Even CNN is willing to publish that independent experts think Trump deserves partial credit for Pfizer’s developments:
        
        “…it was not accurate for Pfizer to suggest that it is operating entirely apart from Operation Warp Speed; the company has a major agreement to sell at least 100 million doses of its vaccine to the federal government, and Pfizer acknowledged in a Monday statement to CNN that it is in fact “participating” in Operation Warp Speed through this deal. Also, at least some independent experts say the Trump administration deserves partial credit for Pfizer’s progress.”
        
        “The Trump administration agreed in July to buy at least $1.95 billion worth of a Pfizer vaccine, at least 100 million doses, if Pfizer does get a vaccine authorized by the Food and Drug Administration.”
        
        https://www.cnn.com/2020/11/10/politics/fact-check-pfizer-warp-speed-pence/index.html
        
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        November 12, 2020 2:41pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        @CMM also Boehringer Ingelheim… BIG
        
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        November 12, 2020 5:08pm
  - burt
    
    was announced after the presidential election so that Joe Biden can do a victory lap and say that happy days are here again, we have beaten the virus.
    
    Yes, that is exactly what they did. They didn’t want Trump getting any credit but if the vaccine has any severe side effects it will quickly become the Trump vaccine.
    
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    November 12, 2020 3:46pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  What’s wrong, if anything, with the one the Russians have? Gate’s & Fauci want theirs recognised so they can have everyone identified too.
  The world is to be turned into a giant machine at the behest of the neobaronials. They don’t like waste so surplus population cannot be tolerated. ~~Brave new world?~~ Hell on earth!
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:25am
  - C J Southern
    
    Hell on earth? No. Just more baseless conspiracy theory nonsense on Kiwiblog.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:12am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      After the robots take more work what are the useless leftover workers to do? Are they going to be accepted living, breeding and doing nothing for their keep?
      Will taxes on robot productivity replacement be allowed by their owners? Some crunchy bit appear on the horizon.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:38am
      - C J Southern
        
        “After the robots take more work what are the useless leftover workers to do?”
        
        My guess is that they’ll continue to post rubbish on KiwiBlog …
        
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        November 12, 2020 10:50am
      - cmm
        
        The main reason we have useless people is that the normal evolutionary process has been subverted by the welfare system.
        
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        November 12, 2020 11:00am
    - Billy Collins
      
      Gates openly says that entire groups of people shouldn’t exist, and liberals in particular praise him for this.
      
      What’s conspiratorial here?
      
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      November 12, 2020 2:46pm
  - RoboRob
    
    The Russian one hasn’t had all the testing that the Pfizer one (that people are claiming to be un tested / un safe) has. They are shipping it and testing it at the same time. According to some medial experts the system used is likely to give lower protection and may not give long lasting protection.
    
    I would treat the 92% quoted by the Russians with a grain of salt based on the timing of the claim 🙂
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:36am
    - cmm
      
      I would take the Pfizer numbers with a grain of salt too because they tested on younger people (18-55) and not the core risk group (70+).
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:46pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        So, the vaccine wasn’t tested. The tw0 groups at most risk are 10-19 and 80+ they were fairly close. Otherwise those below 60 were of similar low risk –Diamond Princess, which has been a good predictor of outcomes by cohort.
        
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        November 12, 2020 4:15pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    The Russian vaccine has dubious safety signals. Brazil stopped trials, err I think yesterday (sorry its hard to tell sometimes as I get daily comprehensive updates)… a few minutes to hours bedtime reading, depending on how much I keep up. 😉
    
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    November 12, 2020 5:11pm
- peterwn
  
  A tricky one (I will neither uptick or downtick this). In the NZ context there seems to be a less pressing need for Covid vaccinations as long as international travel limitations are tolerated and cases of community transmission remain limited. So NZ has some breathing space here. It could be that those wanting or needing to travel internationally are required to be vaccinated and would in turn not need to meet the 14 day quarantine requirement upon return. Those at particular risk in the community may choose to be vaccinated at an early stage after weighing up benefits and risks. The tricky one is where vaccination becomes a requirement (or quasi requirement) for continuing employment.
  Outside of NZ the world may not be prepared to wait that long for the typical testing and trials that go with drug development. This is especially as the process is driven by the USA situation with a somewhat politicised FDA and ridiculously high lawsuit settlements resulting in excessively long periods before drugs can come to market.
  Therefore an alternative process is needed, one that is timely but with effective risk management.
  Interestingly the ‘flu vaccine is re-formulated each year and this is considered acceptable. There is a risk of side effects but that can be tolerated with precautions eg the patient being requested to remain in the surgery for 20 minutes.
  If the 1950’s Salk and Sabin polio vaccines were required to go through today’s testing procedures, the polio epidemic would have been far worse especially as the effects of the disease were lifelong. It is as well that nurses could visit schools and administer the vaccines without having to bother with parental consent (however if parents told their children to refuse vaccination that was respected).
  Reasonable, but not excessive risk management is needed and the pro’s and con’s should be shared with the public at large.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:39am
  - C J Southern
    
    Ye gods – an articulate balanced rational opinion – you are a rarity!
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:14am
    - Random T Person
      
      No, I think he is a lawyer 😉 haha
      
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      November 12, 2020 9:15am
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    “however if parents told their children to refuse vaccination that was respected”…I went to primary school in the early 1960’s (ChCh) with a kid who was severely crippled (sorry for the offended, not sure if that word’s still allowed to be used nowadays) from polio, he had to use a rigid metal frame & special elevator shoes to walk – all his life
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:24am
    - hookerphil
      
      Avonhead Primary School – Neil if I remember rightly. Teacher still gave him the strap one day as he said he should not be treated differently.
      
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      November 12, 2020 9:44pm
  - Tall Man
    
    Not sure the 14 quarantine is going to last a lot longer.
    
    I see “push back” and it will be interesting when cindy wants a trip or the new “foreign minister”.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:11am
    - Paulus
      
      Will be allright for a secret wedding in Aiutaki (Cook Islands) arrangements being sorted this weekend by officials.
      
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      November 12, 2020 1:47pm
  - RoboRob
    
    Note that NZs freight system is almost at a stand still. Stores cannot get enough products to sell becuase the border procedures are slowing shipping to a crawl. It would be great if all shipping / handling staff could be vaccinated so that regurlar supply of goods could resume.
    
    Our quarantine program, while important, shouldn’t be regarded as a long term system. We need to allow travel, allowing vaccinated people into / out of the country seems sensible. Having the vaccine in the community would also reduce risk of community outbreak with quarantine stuff ups.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:40am
    - sooty
      
      Master Mariner, was knowledgeable in tansport and shipping. But I haven’t seen him for along time!
      
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      November 12, 2020 3:36pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Yes, yes, yes and yes.
    
    Also, as it happens, I have a jab every 3 months its no big deal as long as there’s a year’s worth of prescription. Pickup vial, go to Dr. and get injected. Even if COVID vaccine is that often its *very* doable.
    
    And correct (as implied), NZ is at the middle/back of a very long line, and fractured supply chain… for a vaccine that needs shipping at -70 – -100 C. The maths aren’t hard.
    
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    November 12, 2020 5:15pm
- tf78
  
  If a virus is created in a Lab wouldn’t they be well under way to have developed a vaccine against it already.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:40am
  - C J Southern
    
    There is zero evidence to suggest it was made in a lab.
    
    Further:
    
    (a) we don’t have the ability to manufacture viruses, and
    
    (b) why would one even try when mother nature does it so much better?
    
    Enough of this conspiracy theory nonsense.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:18am
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Chinese Coronavirus Whistleblower Dr Li Meng Yan
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hj6ZIZY5-N4
      
      SARS-CoV-2 Is an Unrestricted Bioweapon: A Truth Revealed through Uncovering a Large-Scale, Organized Scientific Fraud
      
      https://zenodo.org/record/4073131
      
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      November 12, 2020 9:33am
      - C J Southern
        
        *** sigh ***
        
        https://www.factcheck.org/2020/09/report-resurrects-baseless-claim-that-coronavirus-was-bioengineered/
        
        By any chance do you happen to also have any equally minority views on the shape of the earth and the past and present achievements of the manned space program?
        
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        November 12, 2020 12:19pm
    - Mike22240
      
      I agree, there are pleanty of legitimate criticisms of China’s handling of the virus and an enquiry would be welcome. These conspiracy theories take oxygen away from the real issues.
      
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      November 12, 2020 9:54am
    - Brian Marshall
      
      CJ there is plenty of evidence that it was made in a lab. That doesn’t mean it definitely was in a lab,or that it was deliberately released, but RNA analysis of the virus by some virologists has raised serious questions about the origin. So there is evidence, but not proof, that it may have originated from a lab.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:26am
    - Fletch
      
      Zero? Um, there’s a heck of a lot of evidence it was created in a lab, including papers in virology journals written by those Chinese scientists talking about modifying a bat virus to make it infectious to humans.
      
      The WIV published in the peer-reviewed US Journal of Virology in 2017 that it had genetically engineered a coronavirus found in a horseshoe bat and that it required only a minimal change to the Receptor Binding Domain — amino acids 310 to 518 — to make it infectious to humans. They said they achieved this using an HIV-based pseudovirus system. As it happens, the SARS-CoV-2 virus has a 96 per cent resemblance to a viral nucleic acid sequence from a horseshoe bat and according to an article published in Nature by David Cyranovski the key differences are ‘in the RBD sites.’ In the preprint of an article in bioRxiv on SARS-CoV-2, researchers found an ‘uncanny similarity of unique inserts in the 2019-nCoV spike protein to HIV-1 gp120.’
      
      So they are writing all these articles about experimenting with it and on what they doing, but you think it was theory only? Right… Other virii have escaped from labs in China before.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:41am
      - C J Southern
        
        https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/coronavirus-lab-manmade-myth-debunked-2020-6%3famp
        
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        November 12, 2020 12:22pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Those detailed reports have been rubbished by the self authenticated fact checkers from Outer Mongolia with satellite phones to the US.
        Truth is now a fluid object.
        
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        November 12, 2020 4:21pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And I see the Government has ordered the first 1.5 million doses of the vaccine once it becomes available.
  What about the other 4 million of us?
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:44am
  - sooty
    
    You don’t count you’re a pleb!
    Only labour party hierarchy get it!
    If there’s any left over,
    The plod,
    The defence force,
    The doctor’s and nurses,
    Local council. But they probably come under labour supporters at the top.
    Schoolteachers. But why with no kids.
    LGBTQWERTY.
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:51am
  - Tall Man
    
    Now, who voted how ………….
    
    Let them have it….
    
    https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/the-walking-dead-season-1-beginnings-marathon-amc-season-10-marathon/
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:54am
  - virtualmark
    
    There are better vaccines coming later in 2020.
    
    Basically the Pfizer & Moderna vaccines should be available for deployment in Mar/Apr and then there’s a second wave of other vaccines that should be available in Aug/Sep. The second wave vaccines are expected to offer better protection.
    
    The rationale for 1.5 million doses (750,000 people at 2 doses per person) is to cover front line health workers, MIQ workers, those with real vulnerabilities etc … basically give an okay vaccine to those that are most exposed and then hold off for the better vaccine to do a nationwide programme.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:00am
    - david
      
      They have already announced that Maori and Pacifica will be prioritised. No outrage it seems.
      
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      November 12, 2020 4:49pm
  - MCos
    
    It’s a two shot procedure so that’s 4.25mil of you, minus all those who think it’s a hoax, a sniffle, or in some way no threat to them.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:04am
  - SGA
    
    I imagine the choice is between
    1. taking a smaller amount of what will be a limited supply and targeting the most vulnerable in the population (with the idea that you do the rest of population as more vaccine becomes available)
    2. Waiting until there is enough vaccine available so you can do the entire population at once.
    
    1. seems more sensible?
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:36am
  - Liberty
    
    Welcome to Socialism NZ / A kind caring government Under Dear Leader.
    The vaccine will be restricted to Lefty Academics, The first Nation people, ABz types, and union comrades. As for the peasants they were just useful idiots to secure power.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:42am
    - tf78
      
      Liberty, I’d much rather the Lefty Academics etc. be the guinea pigs than the hard working honest people.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:02am
  - oldfella
    
    Maggie, I think it’s a two-jab vaccine. So that means only 750,000 Kiwis will get it.
    BTW, will Glorious Leader be first in line? Not to jump the queue, but to show us it’s harmless.
    Yeah, nah.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:43am
    - sooty
      
      Not getting it untill I have seen cindy and jethro get the jab!
      
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      November 12, 2020 3:39pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Presumably they will be vaccinated in the 2nd & 3rd, 4th, and 5th 1.5 million doses that they order (2 doses required per person – less doses not required for those who don’t want it or those who can’t have it) (and our population is only 5,002,100 – not 5,500,000).
    
    Given that initial supply will be limited due to the logistics of manufacturing billions of doses I don’t think that it’s particularly irrational for a low-risk country with no (significant) community spread of COVID-19 to have wait a bit longer before the majority of their citizens are fully vaccinated.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:08am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      As far as true population numbers are concerned, nobody really has a clue what they are.
      We know hundreds of people in Remmers that would never dream of filling in a Census form.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:49am
      - C J Southern
        
        If they refuse to fill in a form then the government already knows they exist (or they wouldn’t have been able to have been sent a form to refuse to fill in).
        
        Also edical professionals are required to notify the government of births – and I doubt that there are many in NZ who dodn’t pop up on some register at some point either.
        
        So I would argue that we do indeed have a pretty good estimate of how many people there are in NZ – but remain keen to review any credible evidence you have to the contrary.
        
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        November 12, 2020 10:56am
      - sooty
        
        No one said that the census, has to be true & correct!
        You just have to fill it in.
        
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        November 12, 2020 12:43pm
  - Harriet
    
    …..What about the other 4 million of us?…..
    
    Well that’s 4 million votes.
    
    Vote for ACT or leave.
    
    As National are clearly not paying attention. 😎
    
    5 1
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    November 12, 2020 10:15am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    Rich pricks will get it last. It’s only fair
    
    7 1
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    November 12, 2020 11:37am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You can have mine.
    
    4 0
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    November 12, 2020 4:22pm
- amospicton
  
  And the CEO just sold 60% of his shares.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:08am
  - sooty
    
    Why would you do that on a money maker like no other?
    
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    November 12, 2020 3:41pm
- Catgurl13
  
  The fact that this so called vaccine is being rushed and not tested enough,is the reason my family do not want it.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:11am
  - RJ
    
    My gp’s advice is to wait five years until it’s seen what the side effects are and then consider it.
    
    2 0
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    November 12, 2020 3:26pm
- RoboRob
  
  Testing on Childern has been authorised and has begun. My understanding is that testing 18-55yr patients is standard and once these are determined safe you move onto Children and Elderly.
  
  Not Pfizers testing was on 44,000 patients accross multiple countries and ethnicities. With apparently very little in the way of side effects.
  
  RNA is revolutionary but the resulting vacine is not especially different from any other vaccine. Traditional vaccines use dead virus, RNA uses a ‘grown’ virus similar to the target. Becuase of this you can make the vaccine much faster (esp with regard to production).
  
  I personally, would be happy to take the vacine. I think we should be careful not to encourage the anti vac crowd. Many people are dying and many more will die due to poverty caused by lockdowns etc, we should not make the later worse by talking up perceived dangers.
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:31am
- Rachael Membery
  
  How much were the guinea pigs paid?
  
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  November 12, 2020 2:10pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  Tucker Carlson On The Pfizer Vaccine Timing
  ??
  https://youtu.be/HHliU2ften8?t=1864
  
  Thoughts?
  
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  November 12, 2020 3:28pm
  - Okahu
    
    Sure. The jerk should be a sceptic tank cleaner. With only a long hose and his powerful sucking abilities to work with.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:58pm
- Pharmachick
  
  Me too. Science by press release is DANGEROUS. Also, vaccine has to be kept below -100C to be viable… show me the shipping! Also, this is a “preliminary” analysis, all sorts of ways it should be skewed. Even that said, Pfizer has been my front runner since Astra and J&J had safety signals… I really, really hope (with a BIG dose of skepticism).
  
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  November 12, 2020 5:01pm
Maggie Pie

Take my advice – NEVER order the fish.

We were having dinner with friends at the Hilton Nuku last year. Against my advice, one of the girls ordered the Wahoo marinated in coconut cream. Halfway through eating it, she discovered a disposable rubber glove. 🙁
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November 12, 2020 8:05am
- G152
  
  Now that really sounds fishy.
  Were there fingers involved (fishy fingers).
  🙂
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:08am
- Inandout
  
  MP, thank God it wasn’t a used tampon.
  
  12 2
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  November 12, 2020 8:20am
  - Catgurl13
    
    ?????
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:24am
- Tall Man
  
  “Wahoo” … Free meals for all ….
  
  Told you that little ol glove would come in handy 🙂
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:23am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Better chefs and better undefined-gender fish-catching-persons required.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:29am
- NoCash
  
  A whole glove? Wow… yeah…
  
  6 2
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  November 12, 2020 8:36am
  - SGA
    
    Yeah, I’m a little surprised the serving staff didn’t sort of notice something that conspicuous?
    
    5 1
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    November 12, 2020 9:47am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Have you never had a rectal examination?
    The gloves are almost invisible.
    
    5 2
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    November 12, 2020 11:59am
  - Hard Cheese
    
    It could be worse….could be a pair of gloves
    
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    November 12, 2020 12:23pm
- Simon
  
  Never order chicken in the third world. Always go with beef.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:36am
  - Random T Person
    
    I once had ‘cheekeen on a steeek’ in Uganda. At least, that’s how the Aussie tour guide described it, adding ‘Doan wurry if ya think eets dodgee, eee probably got up around the same toooim you did this mawning’.
    Was on my way from Kampala to Jinja to raft the source of the Nile. What an experience.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:18am
- Catgurl13
  
  Blerk!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!….vomit yuck!!!!!!!!
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:12am
Tom Barker

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
It’s very sweet and touching how Trump disciples continue to insist that their hero will regain his White House office in clouds of glory
You sound like adherents of the John Frum cult
Or like Miss Havisham at her ancient wedding breakfast
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November 12, 2020 8:06am
- Simon
  
  “You sound like adherents of the John Frum cult”
  
  Lol – cult members need censorship of harmful information. Big tech & MSM censored Biden corruption to help you cope.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:35am
- KevO'Brien
  
  You should see the printouts of the voting machines showing the skulduggery. Prosecutions look unavoidable.
  
  I have seen some beaut frauds as an investigator but this one is over the top. The evidence is on the surface. If reports of real time surveillance by hidden skilled officials are true there could be real fun to come.
  
  The White House doesn’t have to prove a case to criminal level but smell only. The States then have to prove and certify the accuracy of the count and have that all done by the 6th December for presentation to the Electoral College on the 8th December 2020–imperative constitutional requirements.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:44am
  - virtualmark
    
    And yet in today’s case in PA …
    
    The Judge: I understand. I am asking you a specific question, and I am looking for a specific answer. Are you claiming that there is any fraud in connection with these 592 disputed ballots?
    Mr Goldstein (Lawyer for Republicans): To my knowledge at present, no.
    The Judge: Are you claiming there is any undue or improper influence upon the elector with respect to these 592 ballots?
    Mr Goldstein: To my knowledge at present, no.
    
    Trump is free to lie. But lawyers will be disbarred if they lie to a Court, and clearly Mr Goldstein wasn’t as prepared to sacrifice his credibility on behalf of Trump as you are Kev.
    
    The allegations of fraud etc are just theatre by a President with the temperament of a toddler. In 2012 Trump said Obama’s election was a total sham, he said Cruz “stole” the Iowa primary in 2016. Then in the 2016 Presidential election he said In addition to winning the Electoral College in a landslide, I won the popular vote if you deduct the millions of people who voted illegally”.
    
    Feel free to eat your Trump steak, look at your diploma from Trump university, and tell yourself there was widespread fraud. But understand that the rest of us who haven’t been conned by a lifelong conman will be a bit more sceptical of Trump’s claims.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:08am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’m more sceptical of a nursing home candidate for POTUS. What are the Americans made of to offer such a candidate? He may have had 47 years but an asset test suggest he has done well enough. Biden can only be a stand-in for Harris who couldn’t get enough votes for the selection.
      
      Who cares about the USA election anyway? Once they were significant in the world now all they do is cause lack of peace and disturb our finances through too money printing.
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:16pm
      - fernglas
        
        Where are these printouts? Where is the evidence that is so clearly on the surface? As an investigator you will understand what is meant by “evidence”
        
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        November 12, 2020 2:10pm
  - kiwikidsnz
    
    “smell only…” https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300156519/trump-lawyers-suffer-embarrassing-rebukes-from-judges-over-voter-fraud-claims
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:19am
  - C J Southern
    
    And yet their cases are being thrown out of court almost as quickly as the come in;
    
    16 suits filed, 12 already dismissed / disallowed. Allegations being recanted. No evidence of ANY fraud being presented.
    
    It’s a witch hunt and conspiracy theory that’s pretty much on par with QAnon levels of idiocy. And you lot are buying it.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:26am
    - SGA
      
      It will surprise me if no evidence of ANY fraud will be found. People being people, there are probably relatively isolated, petty incidents in a country as large as the USA. But I doubt that there will be evidence of the large scale, systematic fraud required to rig an election.
      
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      November 12, 2020 9:52am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Trump’s team don’t have to present evidence of fraud. They only have to put the State Secretary on guard as that person has to bear the responsibility of certifying the vote count in time and sending it on to the Electoral College. The Secretary could be in strife for a long time as this is a local voter matter and the Secretary has to bear the brunt of it. That could be legal battles and real trouble for that person.
        If they don’t file in time or cannot certify their count their State votes are ignored.
        
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        November 12, 2020 12:25pm
      - C J Southern
        
        The thing that most people don’t seem to understand is their systems are robust; they have numerous checks, cross-checks, and balances to ensure that fraud primarily can’t happen – and if it does, it’s detected and nullified.
        
        The only fraud I’ve heard of so far was 2 republicans who tried to vote twice.
        
        As usual a lot of people are saying a lot of things – and as usual most of it is incorrect/misleading crap. People are entitled to say it – people are entitled to be stupid enough to believe it – but thankfully the courts set the bar for evidence much higher.
        
        My encouragement to the Trumpets here – before they post their “evidence” – is to type it into Google first with the words “fact check” first.
        
        I’m really starting to dispair at the number of people here who appear incapable of reaching a rational conclusion as to what’s credible and what’s not (not directing that at you BTW); IMO the nonsense has reached epidemic proportions that – frankly – I’m getting pretty sick of because I have zero interest in playing this stupid fantasy game of “it must be true if someone posted it on Twitter – but it’s not true if it doesn’t align with my chosen position no matter how many credible sources it quotes”.
        
        It usually goes something like this:
        
        1. I read it on XYZ
        
        “Oh – you can’t believe anything you read on XYZ – they’re leftist MSM”
        
        2. I read it on Fox News
        
        “Oh – I don’t form my opinions based on what Fox News says”
        
        3. It’s on WikiPedia – complete with references to the sources.
        
        “Oh – Wikipedia can be editied by anyone” (correct – and unless the edit quotes reliable sources the edit will get reverted in minutes).
        
        4. It was decided by the court
        
        “Oh the courts are biased because [insert some nonsensical crap] …”
        
        And on and on and on it goes. It’s so fucking nausiating.
        
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        November 12, 2020 2:13pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      To be fair, the American legal system is a joke and is highly partisan. Lower courts chucking stuff out doesn’t necessarily mean anything. Look at Pensylvania, the State Supreme Court changed a law, despite the legislature explicitly having the opportunity to do so and choosing not to. No surprise that that same court blocked the challenge of it.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:29am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Lawfare is taking place but the State Secretary still has to certify the vote in time or the Stet votes are not included in the Electoral College total.
      Court refusal co-operate examining a reported odour is just taking precious days out of their certification opportunity period. That is not extensible.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:44am
      - C J Southern
        
        I’ve got a standing offer to Trumpets such as yourself. Come 21st Jan 2021 if Trump is still sitting in the hotseat then I’ll acknowledge that I was wrong – bow to superior knowledge – hang my head in shame – and never post here again. But if it’s Biden sitting in the hotseat (assuming he doesn’t die or become otherwise incapacitated in the meantime) then YOU acknowledge you were wrong – hang your head in shame – and never post here again.
        
        Nothing like a little skin in the game eh?
        
        So far I’ve make the offer to two Trumpets – who have (for some “strange” reason) said no. You up for it?
        
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        November 12, 2020 11:02am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      I’m not buying it. Just interested to see how stupid some of the claims will be. High or low stupid will be accepted here.
      Going to be hard to beat Fox News on Biden’s son leaving computers all over the place with info about Russia on them. But the Biden/Harris van in full sight doctoring votes also takes some beating.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:45am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        There’s plenty of stench to bring that to the attention of the authorities. Trump’s lawyers only have to show the smell, the others then have to prove the votes are all perfect and they only have until 6th Dec to do that. Law has its purposes. Election must be seen to be clean.
        
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        November 12, 2020 10:54am
      - virtualmark
        
        Kev, Trump’s lawyers have to do more than show the smell … they have to prove their case. In Court. Before a judge. And so far that hasn’t come remotely close to happening.
        
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        November 12, 2020 10:57am
      - SB2
        
        “Election must be seen to be clean”
        
        And so it is especially if you include Trump’s derisive and laughable attempt to exclude 6 million votes 2016.
        
        The President elect is making the usual transition preparations whilst Trump rants about a a dead voter ballot.
        
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        November 12, 2020 11:03am
      - C J Southern
        
        @virtualmark
        
        You get it. Congratulations.
        
        1 4
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        November 12, 2020 2:15pm
    - BananaLlama
      
      Proof of allegations being recanted?
      Proof the number of suits filed is actually that number?
      Proof that number have been dismissed?
      Proof this is a Qanon conspiracy?
      Proof this is a witch hunt?
      Proof “this lot” are buying it?
      
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      November 12, 2020 11:02am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Stuff has a few examples and one was basically the judge trying to force the lawyer into saying it was deliberate election rigging but the lawyer was simply saying that the votes were illegal/improper and should be removed for that reason. Intent wasn’t needed but the judge was clearly trying to have it argued on intent so they could get it thrown out. Stuff was showing it as Trump’s lawyers not having a case but in reality it showed the judge as being politically motivated (based on what was in the article).
        
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        November 12, 2020 1:37pm
  - virtualmark
    
    And Trump’s lawyers receive even more rebukes from Judges …
    
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/11/11/trump-lawyers-suffer-embarrassing-rebukes-judges-over-voter-fraud-claims/
    
    Trump can lie all he likes. So can Limbaugh, and Gingrich, and all the other fever swampers.
    
    But lawyers in Court need to tell the truth. And the truth isn’t showing widespread electoral fraud or errors, and the Judges aren’t buying it.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:27am
    - Fletch
      
      That’s because it is going to take time to gather evidence. And the fraud is probably very well hidden – who knows where thousands of votes materialized from at 4am? We know they did, but the difficultly is in proving who did it, etc.
      
      As far as provability – we know for a FACT that the courts in states like Michigan and Wisconsin overstepped their authority and ruled on mail-in ballots being accepted after the close of the election and without postmarks etc. Only the State Legislature can make a ruling like that to change election law. This could invalidate thousands of late votes if the Supreme Court rules the way it should.
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:15pm
    - Libertarians are right
      
      I liked the Goldstein one. That judge’s bias was clear. The lawyer wasn’t arguing fraud, just illegal votes but the judge was trying to make it about fraud and intent (which is hard to prove so Goldstein would lose).
      
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      November 12, 2020 1:40pm
      - virtualmark
        
        Well let’s wait and see what the Judge decides. But so far Trump’s batting 0.000 so I wouldn’t be too optimistic for a Republican win in court.
        
        You can track that particular case with Mr Goldstein (from the ASB?) at https://www.democracydocket.com/cases/montgomery-county-board-of-elections-vote-count/
        
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        November 12, 2020 4:25pm
  - SGA
    
    The White House doesn’t have to prove a case to criminal level but smell only.
    
    What on earth do you mean exactly? I thought that you had to file a suit in court and a judge had to determine that there was sufficient evidence to warrant further action (or else it was simply dismissed). Are you trying to say the White House just has to call up a state judiciary and say “something smells”, and then they start jumping through hoops?
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:59am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The State Secretaries are the ones who must be satisfied as they are charged with the duty of certifying the counts and the numbers for the Electoral College.
      There are State and Federal Courts involved, if not ingloriously intertwined, and it seems the Court sport is to play off one against another. I heard a good lawerly presentation the other day explaining the present operational protocols and the position was that a whiff of fraud was sufficient to put the onus onto the State to prove the votes were valid.
      
      I cannot comment on the operation of US law and Courts. We will just have to await their outworkings.
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:38pm
      - SGA
        
        As C J Southern notes (above), judges seem to be readily dismissing much (all?) of what’s come before them so far, and that’s inconsistent with your claims.
        
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        November 12, 2020 12:51pm
  - doggone7
    
    I’m waiting for the ‘shock’ story about the counting clerk who modified a counting machine so that it actually changed the places of the marks on the ballot papers.
    Rudi will be onto it if he’s not too busy tucking in.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:45am
  - Jim
    
    I have a confession to make.
    
    I, James Tiberius Kirk, resident alien of California, citizen of the Democratic Peoples Republic of New Zealand, voted 5 million times in the presidential election; 100,000 fraudulent votes per state.
    
    All my comrades did the same.
    
    We thought it was fun, but seeing all the anguish this has caused have decided to come clean.
    
    Whoever is keeping track of all the voter fraud: please add this to the list. We voted for Trump so this belongs on the other side of the ledger.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:50am
    - alloytoo
      
      Don’t be ridiculous
      
      Kirk will be from Iowa and probably will submit a absentee mail in ballot.
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:01pm
    - SGA
      
      May I congratulate you on your enterprise.
      Sadly, the first item on kiwi in america’s list the other day was remarkedly similar.
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:48pm
- SGA
  
  Or like Miss Havisham at her ancient wedding breakfast
  
  Well, Trump’s supporters do have great expectations.
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:02am
Andrei

The State of Georgia is going to undertake a full audit of the 2020 election in their State and a hand recount of all ballots

This should be interesting…
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November 12, 2020 8:18am
- NoCash
  
  And when Biden still comes out on top, I wonder what the Trump supporters will demand next. Hand count by Trump himself perhaps?
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:31am
  - sooty
    
    Do they check votes against who died with covid?
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:54am
  - Cantabrian
    
    Trump has already said that if the election result is fair, he will depart. The real fear is that if the outcome IS legally and practically in Trump’s favour, the Left will go mad with a return to riots and civil unrest. Did you see conservatives doing that when the media annointed Biden as their saviour?
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:58am
    - Fletch
      
      It would almost be worth it to see the look on the face of Biden and those smarmy media pundits who called it early for him. All the wailing and moaning.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:46am
  - Isobar
    
    Exactly, there is no reason to suggest this wont favour Biden. He might come out with a larger lead – imagine that!
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:08am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      Biden has a massive advantage over Trump in the postal ballots so it is highly likely that any ineligible votes (which are more likely to be postal) will be for Biden. That is one of the reasons the recount is actually so important this time as the variance could actually be quite a bit higher than usual (or not).
      
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      November 12, 2020 1:44pm
  - C J Southern
    
    I’m betting that the ones here will (a) continue to prattle on about how it was “stolen” (but without being able to offer any credible evidence – just as they’ve been unable to offer any so far) and (b) assert “watch this space – Trump will be back in 2024 – with a huge majority – to save the world”.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:11am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      TRUMP 2024!
      
      10 6
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      November 12, 2020 10:20am
      - SGA
        
        MATA!!!
        (Make America Trump Again)
        
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        November 12, 2020 1:00pm
    - artemisia
      
      The courts will decide, cumulatively. That is the correct place for evidence to be presented, challenged and decided upon in accordance with the law.
      
      There is so much info floating around – good, bad, who knows. For example I saw a comment that a large number of Homeland Security personnel were deployed to polling places. True, false, alternative fact? Courts will take note of relevant evidence presented, if any.
      
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      November 12, 2020 10:51am
      - C J Southern
        
        “The courts will decide, cumulatively. That is the correct place for evidence to be presented, challenged and decided upon in accordance with the law.”
        
        Yep. You can see the running total here:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lawsuits_relating_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
        
        To date: 16 suits filed – 12 concluded not in Trumps favour – 4 yet to be decided – 0 wins for Team Trump.
        
        “There is so much info floating around – good, bad, who knows.”
        
        There’s also plenty of credible information floating around about the “other” info floating around – but people who have made their mind up don’t want to read credible information – they only want to read things that reinforce their own “thinking”.
        
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        November 12, 2020 2:19pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Trump doesn’t have to prove the votes are crook, he only has to show the likely odour of fraud.
      The votes have to be certified by the individual State Secretaries whose necks are on the block. This all has to be done by the 6th Dec. ready for the Electoral College on the 8th December. All this protocol is fixed under the Constitution and is invariate.
      Disputes about ballot quality have to be satisfied in this time frame or they cannot be included in the Electoral College totals. If no candidate gains the required 270 the matter is referred back to Congress and the new Trump majority wins.
      
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      November 12, 2020 11:03am
      - NoCash
        
        So that’s Trump’s game plan to steal the election?
        
        1 1
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        November 12, 2020 12:56pm
      - C J Southern
        
        “Trump doesn’t have to prove the votes are crook, he only has to show the likely odour of fraud.”
        
        No. That’s not how it works.
        
        In essence that’s what he’s trying with the courts and the total as I write this is 16 of which he’s lost 12 – 4 are still in progress – and he’s won none.
        
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        November 12, 2020 2:22pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Surreptitious election activity is just that: it is hidden and intended to stay that way. I will never know who set fire to my campaign caravan with a Molotov cocktail on election night ’75. I still think it was probably one of my supporters, if so I missed the sympathy vote by 24 hours.
      
      I regard a clean outcome as more important than the Candidate.
      
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      November 12, 2020 12:48pm
      - SGA
        
        Surreptitious election activity is just that: it is hidden and intended to stay that way.
        
        Well, that’s the way of all good conspiracies, isn’t it. It’s hidden to all but the select few to whom it is obvious.
        
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        November 12, 2020 1:05pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Nah, his fingers are too small.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:46am
    - NoCash
      
      I can imagine a parody skit by Alec Baldwin that goes like this…
      
      Trump counting:
      One vote for me, two votes for me, three votes for me, ah a vote for Bi…. that can’t be right… four votes for me…
      
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      November 12, 2020 4:42pm
- Simon
  
  Yep. Biden pre election said he wouldnt accept the outcome until voting certified.
  
  GA recount how Joe wanted it before he was told otherwise.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:43am
  - amospicton
    
    I think we can all see how Trump’s character has a role in this. But surely it’s in the Dems best interest to prove to Republicans especially that the results were fair. If they’ve nothing to hide what’s the problem with verifying the results?
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:12am
    - Batman
      
      They have been and are continuing to be verified by various state authorities, including the Republican ones.
      
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      November 12, 2020 11:28am
      - Libertarians are right
        
        And everyone should wait until that has been done.
        
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        November 12, 2020 1:45pm
    - C J Southern
      
      It’s not up to the “Dems” to prove anything; it’s up to Trump’s lot to prove their case.
      
      All states already have extensive checks, cross-checks, and safeguards to ensure that voter fraud can’t happen – it’s up to Trumps lot to prove these are failing – not the other way around.
      
      Just like you getting a speeding ticket; if the device was certified and calibrated and used in the correct manner then the ticket stands unless you can convince a judge why is shouldn’t. To date there’s not been a lot of convincing of judges going on.
      
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      November 12, 2020 2:26pm
- bruceavon
  
  I don’t think it will be that interesting. In the history of audits and recounts only 3 have ever changed the results and the margins were less than 300 votes.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:59am
- virtualmark
  
  The state of Georgia had said before the election that they would do a “risk limiting audit” on one statewide race this election. The initial plan was to do it on a down-ballot race but with the closeness of the Presidential race, and the allegations from Trump, they’ve decided to do it on the Presidential race instead.
  
  It’s NOT a recount. A risk-limiting audit does not recount all the ballots. Officials manually examine only a percentage of randomly chosen paper ballots. The closer the race the more ballots you have to audit, so with this close Presidential race they found they had to audit well over a million ballots and it turned out to be cheaper/more efficient to do them all (otherwise they have to ballot which ballots to check, then find them, check them etc … Georgia said it was easier just to do them all without the balloting/finding).
  
  Note that because this is not a recount it is not expected to see a restatement of the results.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:14am
artemisia

Shelly Bay proposal gets a not-unanimous tick from the Wellington City Council. This just an OK to sell / lease small bits of the site to the developers, plenty more water to go under the bridge with two legal challenges pending. One from ‘outraged neighbours’ and one from the previous owner that umm … sold it to the developers.

Regardless of the merits of the development proposal, if it proceeds in some form future buyers will be paying more in costs recovery.

Meantime, what has happened to property rights and contracts in our country. Owners sell and later want the court to cancel the contract. Council makes a decision, cancels it because of ‘public interest’ and takes three years to reconsider.

Then there is Ihumatao. And now Pukeiahua according to the very large ‘LAND BACK’ poster, immortalised on the interweb in the below article. It’s a slippery slope.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123364593/green-light-for-shelly-bay-redevelopment-after-council-votes-96-in-favour
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November 12, 2020 8:21am
- Bill Felt
  
  The Land Wars II has just begun!
  
  23 4
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  November 12, 2020 8:32am
  - Brian Marshall
    
    Fought with lawyers, not muskets… as always, it will be the little people that suffer.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:32am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Utu!
    
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    November 12, 2020 11:04am
- The Boss
  
  Ihumatao will be settled (with our money, of course) just before Christmas and with parliament out of the way, when most people are on holiday.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    After activists stealing Ihumatao with the govt collusion and Police abandoning their Oaths of Office a settlement from public monies is apparently to be offered to the registered owners.
    
    Apart from the other crimes of State implied in all this how is money which to be appropriated by Parliament to be paid over too?
    The Auditor General should step in to protect illegal spending of public money.
    
    We may need to extend our criminal law to acts of MP’s and others in sworn office. They are acting as anarchists not elected representatives.
    Has constitutional law in NZ been thrown out and it’s now each one for ourselves? Be kind, teach the govt basic care and responsibility.
    
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    November 12, 2020 11:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Land law is currently suspended in NZ. It is now what the PM and activists decide.
  
  Further mods are likely as Ngai Tahu are flexing there muscles and want all the South Island water too.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Ihumātao has set an awful precedent and the Prime Minister is directly to blame. The reality is that Shelly Bay is a beautiful spot but an eyesore. Of course it needs to be developed.
  
  On a related topic, the housing market is out of control. And this Prime Minister is totally silent. For low (and increasingly middle) income families with kids, housing costs are an increasing cause of financial stress and poverty. Expect public housing waiting lists to sky rocket and the “after housing costs” poverty indicators to deteriorate.
  
  This government does not have a clue what to do about this problem. They have actually made things worse by demonising landlords. It is a disgrace.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:50am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Indicators will be rising. It cost 20% more for the weekly groceries yesterday.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:45am
  - doggone7
    
    The housing market out of control? Surely a free market just does what it is supposed to do. It does not need to be be ‘controlled’, it just is and should be as it happens.
    
    Should all controls which impact on housing in any way of any sort be gone?
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:55am
  - Ian Boag
    
    This government does not have a clue what to do about this problem.
    
    True. If only the opposition had a clue …..
    
    The fact that neither party has a clue doesn’t make anything “right”. As values head for the sky (owners are generally OK with this) rents follow. Wages don’t. It’s just wrong
    
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    November 12, 2020 11:08am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I agree with you.
      
      The solutions to housing affordability in New Zealand are well understood. For example:
      
      https://www.productivity.govt.nz/inquiries/housing-affordability/
      
      https://www.productivity.govt.nz/assets/Documents/0a784a22e2/Final-report.pdf
      
      But as you say existing owners are fine with rising prices. Another 12 months and there will be equity to fund other investments or buy a new top of the line SUV.
      
      While ever more people at the bottom of the ladder join the public housing waiting list.
      
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      November 12, 2020 11:17am
    - artemisia
      
      Rodney Hide put forward an idea. Pretty much set aside an area where owners could build what they like, how they like and own the consequences.
      
      There will be lots of voices saying why it wouldn’t work but just maybe the discussion would throw up useful ideas even if the experiment didn’t actually happen.
      
      I’d like to see it happen though. #8 wire and all that. Probably a chaos of trailer homes, tiny houses, and a colour and structure cacophany. But quite likely a reasonable place after a few years as owners could afford to upgrade.
      
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      November 12, 2020 1:58pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        The terms “instant slum” and “Kiwi favela” come to mind ….
        
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        November 12, 2020 3:54pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    made things worse by demonising landlords
    
    Generally speaking, landlords just trade in existing houses for capital gain, not income. They don’t build new rentals because the sums don’t work. I think “demonise” is a bit OTT.
    
    Aside from anecdotal reports, new government regs do not seem to have created an exodus from property investment. Property investors seem to be there boots and all in the current boom .
    
    Rent increases follow value increases. A $10k capex here and there for insulation/heating is chickenfeed in the scheme of things.
    
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    November 12, 2020 11:31am
- Isobar
  
  There is too many interested parties (NIMBY’s) stopping developments.
  
  Time to get rid of any power they have to prevent development
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:10am
- HeatherW
  
  Some of the Shelly Bay owners did not agree to the sale. Port Nicolson Block Settlement Trust put the sale to members but didn’t get the 75% yes vote required. Sale was then changed to 4 separate blocks which then didn’t need member approval so sales at possibly below cost went ahead. The member database for the Trust is in the process of revamp so who the owners are may change.
  The other slippery slope is that Ngapuhi want their settlements to be considered at hapu level rather than the previous iwi level so many more settlements to come.
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:46pm
I remember when

Otaki College counsellor with 15 years experience:
With the onset of covid-19 and return to the school environment in May, the counselling landscape has changed significantly (as it has throughout the country).
Self-referrals from students have increased dramatically. Issues include increased anxiety, depression, family separation, impacts of family mental health needs and stress about exams and future plans.
Kapiti Youth Services now have a 4-6 week waiting time for newly referred students. We also have an art therapist, once a week, who is at capacity.
We have applied to the MoE Covid-19 Urgent Response Fund to increase counsellor resource.
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November 12, 2020 8:25am
- Scott
  
  I remember when – it is very sad to me that high school students are depressed and anxious because of the lockdown and the fear engendered about the virus.
  The virus is not generally harmful to high school students. The main people who have problems are those over 70 with significant other health problems.
  
  We should think about these situations before we roll into any more lockdowns? To me there has never been any reasonable point in shutting down the schools and stopping young people working for a virus that is not harmful to them.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:38am
  - amospicton
    
    Add climate hysteria to that.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:14am
  - Sigmund Freud
    
    [mod: conspiracy and a reputational smear. Deleted. A repeat will get a ban.]
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:20am
- krazykiwi
  
  This appears to be a pattern. Those least at risk (ie younger people) have been frightened the most and suffer more anxiety than older folks. And sadly anxiety has been proven to negatively impact our immunoresponse, making the most anxious more vulnerable than less anxious peers.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:44am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes and add to that the children and teenagers who have been brain washed that climate change is going to kill them. And now we tell them they can choose any gender they want. No wonder their mental health is messed up.
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:54am
  - sooty
    
    But what about protecting all our poor suffering teachers, oh the worry they would be under.
    
    5 0
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    November 12, 2020 8:59am
- tf78
  
  The poor kids have grown up with the world going to end due to climate change and now Covid, they just don’t have a chance unless someone starts telling them the truth.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:44am
  - oldfella
    
    They’ve also grown up being encouraged to question their sexual identity. ‘Hey, boy, you may really be a girl,’ kind of thing. Sad.
    
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    November 12, 2020 9:48am
  - alloytoo
    
    What are these kids worried about, climate change would be a whimper, when I grew up we were going to go out with a bang.
    
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    November 12, 2020 12:05pm
  - MCos
    
    When I was a kid the world was in imminent risk of total destruction from a Soviet nuclear attack.
    
    And if that didn’t get you polio might.
    
    Or the Viet Cong
    
    Take your pick.
    
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    November 12, 2020 5:48pm
Paulus

I like what I heard of Andrew Bayley the new Shadow Treasurer on Left Wing Radio this morning.
Some loudmouth interviewer tried as hard as he could to be rude to him but he did not appear phased at all. Perhaps because Bayley is used to dealing with prats from his career as a Merchant Banker and that of a Chartered Accountant.
Susi will have to try next interview as she can be much more rude to any National Party person.
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November 12, 2020 8:30am
- Raniera
  
  Bayly.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:03am
- MCos
  
  He certainly did a lot better than his boss.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:09am
- Isobar
  
  It does look like Tax Cuts will be a thing of the past though under the next National Government.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:11am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Andrew has also been a senior officer in the Terries. I have known him for a number of years. He is a consummate gentleman and very sharp. Susi pfft……. a legend in her own lunchtime.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:35am
CJames

Interesting that they our now touting Napier rain as proof of climate change.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/123361506/a-climate-for-change-napier-flooding-just-a-taste-of-whats-to-come but note it is the second wettest day. The kiddies that write these articles gloss over why the actual record rainfall in 1963 was just heavier. What makes this one different?
No wonder why Stuffs readership is going down.
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November 12, 2020 8:38am
- sooty
  
  Maybe the school kiddies could all write a letter to cindy to limit the rain!
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:00am
- Benedict Yu
  
  How utterly moronic. It was an isolated heavy rain event. That has been happening forever. NIWA has an online source that lists some of the severe weather events that hit New Zealand in the 20th century. Many of them were severe and caused major damage and some deaths.
  
  Also, our weather forecasting is so much better than it was even 20 years ago. That means that people and to an extent property can be protected from incoming events.
  
  All any of these journalists would need to do is spend 15 minutes reading about these historical weather events to realise they were writing shit.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:05am
- oldfella
  
  CJ, and somehow, Hastings, right next door, escapes the damage.
  Is climate change really that selective?
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:51am
- coge
  
  “Doubtless an ill portent. Of a coming vast climate apocalypse”
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:08am
- rangitoto
  
  I have book titled “Floods in New Zealand 1920 – 1953” It has 200 pages of floods listing about eight floods per page plus 20 pages of photos. Nothing much has changed. The photos show some impressive stuff. They call them flood plains because they have been plained by floods.
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:08am
- JackRabbit
  
  According to stuff, the sea in Christchurch is rising at over 1mm per month.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/123358602/decadelong-plan-to-save-christchurchs-coastal-communities-from-rising-seas
  
  However tidal gauges still show only the 1.5mm per year as per normal.
  
  No doubt this climate hysteria is keeping said hysterical people in jobs, thereby robbing the poor and unaware.
  
  This rising sea level hysteria, that says we will be under water, really is someone’s wet dream.
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:37am
  - peterwn
    
    There will soon be beachside holiday home bargains. Frightened vendors will sell at a deep discount and the buyers will know that they will be pushing daisies before the home in inundated.
    
    5 1
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    November 12, 2020 1:20pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Al Gore and Obama, two well known Climate Change Protagonists, already have beach front properties that have massive carbon footprints.
      
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      November 12, 2020 3:17pm
  - Lee C
    
    Sorry JackRabbit.
    
    You lost me at: “According to stuff”…
    
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    November 12, 2020 5:24pm
Maggie Pie

Just scooped $31 in last nights Powerball.
What really pisses me off with MyLotto, is that they only pay out on prizes over $1000. Anything less they just hold in credit.
Think I might start getting my tickets from the dairy again.
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November 12, 2020 8:40am
- peterwn
  
  You can withdraw any of your funds held by Lotto (clause 22 of their terms and conditions). It is just the $1000 payouts that require a form to be completed etc.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:49am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thanks pete! Yes, I see now where you can request a prize to be paid directly into your account rather than being held in credit. Will do that next time.
    I already spent the $31 on Keno.
    
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    November 12, 2020 11:12am
    - Biscuit
      
      Maggie, you’ll be pleased to know that, under the terms and conditions of the direct payment, Lotto has just sent 15 votes in your name to Joe Biden.
      
      Said votes are, of course, dated prior to the Election.
      
      Expect an irate Rudy Guilliani to rail against you at the nearest Four Seasons Total Landscaping depot he can find…
      
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      November 12, 2020 11:49am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        LOL!! And did you see where the ‘Dildo Shop’ next door to Four Seasons got so much publicity, they’ve sold out of stock 😛
        
        6 2
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        November 12, 2020 12:27pm
surfing

The housing market is a wonderful thing.
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November 12, 2020 8:41am
- Jimmy White
  
  The more you house goes up in price the more Capital gains tax you will pay
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:07am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  May as well put your savings into something tangible…not much use evaporating away in Term deposits.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:28am
  - Tall Man
    
    “Term Deposit
    Term Interest Frequency $5,000-$5,000,000
    30 days At Maturity 0.15% p.a.
    60 days At Maturity 0.20% p.a.
    90 days At Maturity 0.35% p.a.
    4 months At Maturity 0.45% p.a.
    5 months At Maturity 0.55% p.a.”
    
    Who wouldn’t ………… Pre tax as well.
    
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    November 12, 2020 10:07am
Critical Thinker

Latest Pennsylvania Updates:

Confirmed: US Postal Service Has Time Travelling Vans ?

~ More than 23,000 mail-in votes have a return date earlier than the day sent.

“Over 51,000 ballots were marked as returned just a day after they were sent out—an extraordinary speed, given USPS delivery times, while nearly 35,000 were returned on the same day they were mailed out. Another more than 23,000 have a return date earlier than the sent date. More than 9,000 have no sent date.”
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/pennsylvania-mess-tens-thousands-pennsylvania-ballots-returned-sent

More “Glitches” Being Investigated ?

~ 220,883 votes were systematically switched from President Trump to Biden.

~ 941,248 votes were lost altogether in system reporting.
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/pennsylvania-mess-tens-thousands-pennsylvania-ballots-returned-sent

4am Magic ?

~ Over a million votes magically appeared after election day and were counted which helped overcome President Trump’s 700,000 vote lead in the state on election night,
https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2020/11/wow-want-believe-biden-gained-1-million-votes-pennsylvania-since-morning-election/
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November 12, 2020 8:44am
- Critical Thinker
  
  Dominion Voting Systems: Hybrid Voting Machines
  
  “This image-cast evolution voting machine has the physical ability to mark votes onto the ballot AFTER the last time the voter sees the ballot.” ?
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQmfLDeghpI
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:52am
  - SB2
    
    Who the heck is Shugah works?
    
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-b5wB2bZeuhK3DyWu6Nqkg
    
    1 12
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    November 12, 2020 11:09am
    - C J Southern
      
      Reality: Someone who posted crap and got their video deauthorised for posting crap.
      
      Trumpets: Brothers who know the “truth” and have been “censored” by “big media / big pharma / big government” (delete as applicable).
      
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      November 12, 2020 2:31pm
    - Critical Thinker
      
      Shugah Works
      ?
      “For ten years I have researched, investigated and reported on systemic issues with U.S. elections that discourage and prevent voter participation. I was reporting on problems with election security long before it was a hot button issue. In 2008, I was the first filmmaker to video Alex Halderman’s hack of the AccuVote TS, and that footage was shown in our first feature length documentary.”
      http://shugahworks.com/about/
      
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      November 12, 2020 2:44pm
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Dominion Voting Systems Data Deep Dive Offers Incontrovertible Proof Of Election Hack
    
    “Massive amounts of votes were changed from President Trump to Biden. Other votes were removed altogether without reason. This “cyber coup” is much bigger than most of us realized.
    
    For example, in Georgia there appears to have been 17,407 votes switched. Biden is currently leading in Georgia by 14,148 votes. Pennsylvania is even worse with over one million votes either switched or “lost.”
    
    Combine this data with what we’re learning about other forms of voter fraud and it’s easy to see how a man who couldn’t fill a small auditorium with supporters was supposedly able to generate more votes than any American candidate in history. The truth is this: He didn’t. Millions of votes were manufactured on his behalf. He (or someone on his behalf) used “The Hammer” and “Scorecard” to steal this election.”
    https://noqreport.com/2020/11/11/data-deep-dive-on-dominion-voting-systems-offers-incontrovertible-proof-of-election-hack/
    
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    November 12, 2020 1:31pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  All that it will take for this election to unravel is for a court to flip the result to Trump in just one State. Then you will see the Biden camp in full panic mode and Trump rampant. There will not be enough ? popcorn in the world to go the distance.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:11am
- C J Southern
  
  The problem you have here conspiracy-thinker is that judges are smarter than you and don’t believe fake news BS like you lot do.
  
  So far 16 suits have been filed and 12 have already been dismissed, disallowed, or rejected.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lawsuits_relating_to_the_2020_United_States_presidential_election
  
  The lawyers are squirming like a can of worms:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300156519/trump-lawyers-suffer-embarrassing-rebukes-from-judges-over-voter-fraud-claims
  
  You might find this interesting too …
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300156500/officials-say-us-postal-worker-recanted-ballot-tampering-allegations-but-he-says-thats-not-what-happened
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:41am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    “You might find this interesting too …”
    
    Oh, it’s FAR more than just “interesting”… ?
    
    USPS Whistleblower Richard Hopkins: “I DID NOT RECANT”
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibU5KVFCg4Y
    
    RECORDING: Federal agents “coerce” USPS whistleblower Hopkins to water down story
    
    https://youtu.be/Cf9DwmUMxFc?t=38
    
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    November 12, 2020 12:19pm
  - JackRabbit
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300156500/officials-say-us-postal-worker-recanted-ballot-tampering-allegations-but-he-says-thats-not-what-happened
    
    …does NOT prove your point. It proves that he has been railroaded into a forced to signed confession.
    
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    November 12, 2020 1:37pm
- NoCash
  
  So your source is a conspiracy hawking site that regurgitates articles from the Epoch Times, yet another conspiracy site…
  
  Is your alias a piss take… hmmm…
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:47am
  - C J Southern
    
    It was just a spelling mistake. I think s/he meant to type “Conspiracy Thinker”.
    
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    November 12, 2020 2:33pm
- SB2
  
  Critical thinker,
  
  Fact check: Video shows spoiled ballots, not discarded Trump votes
  
  A video falsely claiming that President Trump ballots were found in a polling centre trash can in Oklahoma has been shared online.
  Fact check: Video shows spoiled ballots, not discarded Trump votes
  
  Social media users have shared posts with a screenshot of a headline that says a Detroit-based election worker claimed he had thrown out every Trump ballot he saw. However, the headline in the screenshot was published by the website Gateway Pundit, which later updated its story to say the man behind the claim had come forward to say it was a joke.
  
  etc, etc , etc
  
  https://www.reuters.com/fact-check
  
  Gateway Pundit Garbage in Garbage out!
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:18am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  With these ‘glitches’ we are not hearing of votes being switched from Biden to Trump. Why is that? Strange.
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:39am
- JackRabbit
  
  In my software programming, and software team project management, over the last few decades, there are no such things as software glitches, only bad programming.
  
  Software does not glitch, but faithfully follows what it has been programmed to do to the last bit and byte.
  
  If software does something unexpected, it has either been deliberately programmed that way, or it is a case of negligence, laziness or carelessness. High reliability software has the mistakes taken out before being beta tested and then finally released.
  
  51 years ago we sent man to the moon with computers no more powerful or complex than today’s digital wrist watches. And the software and calculations were incredibly complex.
  
  Ballot counting while important, is not rocket science. You are not dealing with thousands of unknowns. It is fundamentally a sensor read, followed by a totaling process. All of the common errors caused by faulty form filling are well known and documented.
  
  All professional software has error checking built in, so if ballot couldn’t be read, misread, it will throw up an error, or require a manual read.
  
  Additionally, all professional software goes through checks and double checks. So unless the software was written by an eight year old in a tree house chain smoking weed, there should be no software “glitches” in a public release.
  
  If the company that writes the software cannot be trusted to write software without glitches, that in itself should enforce a complete recount of ALL ballots. If there is one discovered “glitch” that escaped detection through numerous checks, chances are there are still several undiscovered glitches. Like the Covid-19 vaccine, you do not use your end users as guinea pigs, or alpha/beta testing.
  
  I would have no confidence in any software company that blames “glitches”, and are most likely run by an inept Basil Fawlty or scheming Blackadder type.
  
  Only f***tards use the excuse of “glitches”. And with something that important, and the need to be transparent, as the future of the country is dependant on it, all versions of the software should be independently audited.
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:19pm
- JackRabbit
  
  USA joins Venezuela in rigged elections.
  
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  November 12, 2020 1:39pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  More on Michigan….
  
  https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1326674555499384833
  
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  November 12, 2020 1:41pm
fightingtemeraire

The economic expert in the Green Party, Chloe Swarbrick is saying that all benefits should be increased.

Where is the money coming from??

After arriving in Parliament in 2017 she reckoned she was over paid. Maybe she should pay more tax along with her Mate Ricardo the Tex Mex
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November 12, 2020 8:49am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Benefits and wages may to be held. Robbo is well on his way to fame for releasing a wage price spiral. It seem to be viciously underway with my wife surprised by a $483 weekly grocery shop yesterday. Previously $383 was high.
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:51am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Obviously Robbo needs to have a stern chat with CountDown.
    
    30% grocery increase in a couple of weeks is serious stuff. It’s a wonder that the MSM aren’t all over it like a rash. Or an outcry on this and other blogs.
    
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    November 12, 2020 11:15am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Pointless Robbo talking to Countdown. His excess spending, borrowing, and his Marxist teams actions are the cause. What’s he going to do? Whip himself? Fine the Labour party?
      
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      November 12, 2020 1:35pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      There’s more to come. Do you want Robbo to mimic Muldoon and jaw down prices?
      
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      November 12, 2020 4:36pm
  - RJ
    
    Oh well, plant a garden because if crops aren’t picked prices will increase.
    
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    November 12, 2020 12:33pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Agree wholeheartedly.
    
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    November 12, 2020 1:17pm
Benedict Yu

I think you are spot on. I don’t think New Zealanders will rush to be vaccinated unless they want to travel to places like the USA or UK.

And we really don’t know how a vaccine will work, especially how long protection might last.
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November 12, 2020 8:58am
- MCos
  
  The thinking is about a year.
  
  I would suggest, knowing nothing about vaccines, but having observed just about every other commercial product that is rushed out to beat the pack, there will be rapid improvements in the pipeline.
  
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  November 12, 2020 5:57pm
SpencerArnold

What is the necessary relationship between the mortgage on a property and the bank account? I know a mortgage can have more than one bank account, but can one bank account have more than one property on it’s mortgage? Asking for a filthy capitalist landlord friend.
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November 12, 2020 9:01am
- Ian Boag
  
  Mortgage is the security that backs a loan. The property described in the mortgage document is collateral for the loan. “Paying the mortgage” is actually “servicing the loan”.
  
  Bank accounts don’t really come into it, except that the loan payments would usually be a AP out of a bank account. So – from one bank account – there is no reason to stop you making payments on as many loans as you want to ….
  
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  December 12, 2019 12:57pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  (When land law is operated correctly) more than one security may be registered on a title. They rank in order of entry.
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:18am
  - peterwn
    
    Except nowadays banks make it a loan condition that no second mortgage is registered on the title. A bank would most probably allocate a ‘base account number’ for the loan with the loan account allocate some suffix say ’66’. The bank may also require a ’00’ transaction account to be set up with borrower’s salary paid into it and a regular automatic payment set up into the mortgage account. Hence a linkage between the loan and the borrower’s bank account. This would presumably not preclude the borrower setting up a transaction account with some other bank.
    
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    November 12, 2020 1:13pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Your certainly correct. The rights to gain credit are independent of the Land Registry requirements which only deal with the entries of record.
      
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      November 12, 2020 4:41pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

The existence of an effective vaccine makes maintenance of NZ’s no-covid status a more economically sensible approach – as it only has to be maintained for maybe another 6 months before we have access to vaccine that can stop spread (even if some still get sick). Existing eradication measures cost money on a weekly basis, but likely less than a surge of cases for 3-6 months would (with inevitable social distancing and isolation measures and higher health care costs that would result).
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November 12, 2020 9:03am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The proof of an acceptable vaccine is probably several years away. Every pharma outfit wants to make money out of it and will try to do so.
  
  When are they going to have working flu vaccine that they don’t have to change yearly to match worldwide outbreaks? COVID-19, 20, 21, 22, 23…
  
  Why bother, except to make money or control us? Some are already planning the Global Warming Lock Down. It will be cheaper in the long run to reduce population to reduce carbon emmissions.
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:24am
  - MCos
    
    The planet is a big place, but it can only support a finite number of consumers.
    Nature will sort things out on our behalf if we don’t do it voluntarily.
    The chances of the world doing anything voluntarily are low.
    The current virus resulted from cross contamination between animals not normally in contact caused by food shortages and it’ll happen again.
    
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    November 12, 2020 6:10pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  One word: Thalidomide. No it’s not a vaccine but yes all the very best people assured us that it was sooooo safe and effective and the marketing for it persuaded many mums-to-be to ask for it by name.
  
  ***
  
  If the Pfizer vaccine is offered to you, will you take it based on it’s unproven mRNA tech?
  
  M-for-messenger RNA carries genetic information from DNA to ribosomes to produce proteins. mRNA vaccines carry a copy of the genetic sequence of the virus into cells, to make them produce antibodies to that virus.
  
  Hmmm, let’s see. Let’s breach our usual cellular defenses evolved over tens of thousands if not millions of years.
  
  Let’s not worry about the possibility that the vaccine could program our cells to attack critical proteins required for health.
  
  Yessirree bob, what could possibly go wrong?
  
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  November 12, 2020 6:14pm
Maggie Pie

Heard Phil Goff on Magic last night saying due to the huge hole Covid has made in the Councils finances, Rates may have to double by 2025. On the positive side, it’s fantastic for our CV’s.
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November 12, 2020 9:06am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The guy is a fool. But Auckland voted for him twice. You could put together a team that could cut hundreds of millions out of Auckland Council expenditure.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:14am
  - Ian Boag
    
    a team that could cut hundreds of millions
    
    I wouldn’t know.
    
    Just out of curiosity, could you be a bit more specific? Like a rough list of the areas where the cuts might happen and a rough estimate of how deep each one might go.
    
    With hundreds of millions to cut there would have to be some (obvious) biggies ….
    
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    December 12, 2019 4:01pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      My partner reckons that with more than 7000 employees, it would be easy enough to find another hundred or so useless tits like that guy at watercare to show the door, There’s a hunred mill saved.
      
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      November 12, 2020 5:38pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        If they all got paid the same as the $750k Watercare man that would be $75m. Explain to your partner that they won’t. $75m would be about 3% ….
        
        Might be $25m if we found your partner’s 100 or so I spose – 1% – every little bit helps …
        
        And that $750k will be because they went to someone like Korn Ferry who will have told them that’s what this level of responsibilty costs ….
        
        Go figure
        
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        December 12, 2019 8:22pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        Take away council leased car parks perks for execs earning over $200k. If you earn over $200k you can pay for your own car park like most Aucklanders. Cancel AT’s waterfront offices and put them back in the Waitakere council building which they already own.
        
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        November 12, 2020 6:50pm
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Ian, here’s a Good Start:
      
      1. Stop cycleways
      
      2. Stop council subsidies for sports
      
      3. Stop council subsidies for non-sport events
      
      4. Cut the ethnic ‘consultations’
      
      5. Stop the permit-for-everything idiocy
      
      6. Stop setting up artificial companies like ‘Watercare’ and run everything by one internal team
      
      7. Shut down international marketing right now; no-one can get here
      
      8. Allow every household that wants one to install a water tank to collect rainwater
      
      9. Fire Goff for gross malfeasance, aberrant accounting and sycophantic sucking up to taniwha
      
      10. Put him in stocks on Queen Street for 1001 nights and charge non-ratepayers $1 per soft rotten fruit to be flung from a distance of 20 paces. Ratepayers get to fling free
      
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      November 12, 2020 6:23pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Not bad. A bit ranty … 🙂
        
        Total budget is $2700 million. Can you put a rough “$ saved” next to any of these? Tens? Hundreds? of millions?
        
        I thought not ….
        
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        December 12, 2017 6:37pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        Ian:
        
        30 million with nixing Watercare
        22 million cycleways (excluding the bridge)
        Councils are allocating up to eight percent of total build costs for iwi engagement for COVID-19 response projects – ? on 1 billion builds – well, you can do the math.
        The remainder are left as an exercise for the student.
        
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        November 12, 2020 6:44pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        @humpy
        
        I suppose every little bit helps. Assuming your numbers stack up (?), there’s maybe $100m there.
        
        $100m out of $2700m = maybe 3.5%. Would you notice a 3.5% decrease in your rates. Come on – find something serious ….
        
        It’s all a bit hard
        
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        November 12, 2020 8:02pm
- Catgurl13
  
  We can only hope he will.be long gone from his post by then.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:26am
- chukar
  
  Make use of any diasasters?
  Councils doubling rates bills br 2025 ?
  
  Result ,making individual property ownership unaffordable.
  
  Why can’t Councils cut their social spending and salaries to match ?
  Already the state sector is paying themselves about 25% more than the private sector,
  Oh and Goff should be the first one to go.
  
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  November 12, 2020 9:43am
- sooty
  
  How are people going to afford a kiwibuild home now. I can just hear phil Twyford laughing from here.
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:13am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Akl is going to end up like other cities overseas run by ex Left Wing Pollies.
  
  High rates/taxes and less and less services and more homelessness and crime.
  
  What business would want to stay in Akl. Gridlock and high rates!!!
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:23am
I remember when

Organic Dairy and Pastoral Group (ODPG) Conference at Lincoln University in March.
Within farmers at the conference there was a division between organic and regenerative farmers.
The biggest being opinion on the lesser of two evils as a weed control method – tillage or glyphosate.
Many regenerative farmers still use glyphosate to control weeds, while organic farmers choose to till fields for weed control.
It was agreed, there is more independent and Scientific Research needed into Regenerative Agriculture.
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November 12, 2020 9:09am
Rumblestrip

Was at Countdown last week and they have already started playing god-awful fucking Christmas music.

In the lowest circle of hell, the sound track will surely be “Grandma’s Greatest Christmas Tunes” on auto repeat forever.
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November 12, 2020 9:09am
- Flossie
  
  Hey! Don’t blame Grandma… some of us hate those sorts of tunes
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:05pm
- Fletch
  
  I quite enjoy them, TBH. It’s only for a few weeks a year. Although I must say there’s only so many times you can hear Snoopy’s Christmas and Grandma Got Run Over By A Reindeer…. And they do start playing them too early. I’d wait until December 1st
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:39pm
  - Tall Man
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MgIwLeASnkw
    
    Come on, you love it …..
    
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    November 12, 2020 8:29pm
lazza

Mmmm… Numerous KB contributers…share in common both their reactionary views and obduracy that Trump has not lost.

SAD.

These are values at odds with DNF’s… and my… ethos.

So please go start up your own blog-echo chamber instead of continuing to trade on our KB proprietary goodwill
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November 12, 2020 9:23am
- mark15
  
  Its not your website.
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:19pm
- RJ
  
  Perhaps since you are against open discussion you should start your own blog. People are free to discuss what ever they want within the rules. Sounds like you would be better off over at the labour blog where you only discuss what will wake the head girl approve
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:29pm
- Libertarians are right
  
  Note that I honestly believe that Trump has lost (and don’t really care hugely either way). I just want it to be declared through the proper legal avenues, not the media.
  
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  November 12, 2020 1:52pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  You also need to recognise that the POTUS continues in Office until the inauguration of a successor. Obama was signing pardon orders the day before.
  The Electoral College on the 8th Dec will meet for an official vote count and Declaration including a possible subsequent referral by that College to the Congress to appoint a successor.
  The Constitution has a defined process for change which is being carried out.
  
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  November 12, 2020 4:52pm
  - RJ
    
    No the 8th is when all states have to settle any legal disputes and certify election results. Electoral College is 14th.
    
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    November 12, 2020 5:33pm
I remember when

Napier rain was probably unseasonal as the ‘three day Easterly downpours’ usually used to happen about August.
In the ‘older days’ the problem was caused when high tides prevent excess water clearing areas such as Georges Drive creek. The water couldn’t clear and flooded local areas.
Much of the suburban Napier has been built on areas that were originally saltwater habitats.
Bluff Hill suffered losses of land whenever water caused erosion under the surface.
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November 12, 2020 9:33am
Suze Wainwright

If St Jacinda of the Covid can’t end poverty in aotearoa, then by gosh Marama will…
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November 12, 2020 9:38am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Marama would get rid of prosperity
  
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  November 12, 2020 1:45pm
Maggie Pie

When this appeared on TikTok, I thort I’d share it with the group. It may well be a life saver.

https://buzzfeed.com/farrahpenn/this-womans-thong-sent-her-to-the-er-tiktok
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November 12, 2020 9:47am
- C J Southern
  
  In 25,000 words or (much) less:
  
  “Woman gets infection from (what probably wasn’t) a small cut (possibly) due to a tight thong”.
  
  The term “corelation isn’t causation” also comes to mind.
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:01am
- emmess
  
  I would never click on a Buzzfeed link, I value my IQ too much.
  
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  November 12, 2020 10:20am
- cha
  
  Don’t google “pilonidal cyst”.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:17pm
oldfella

A good take from Spiked on yesterday’s insane story about the top football official in the UK who got dumped for using ‘wrong-think’ words.
https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/11/11/the-mad-witch-hunting-of-greg-clarke/
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November 12, 2020 10:08am
- oob
  
  Great link, oldfella. Thanks for posting it.
  
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  November 12, 2020 11:56am
- Tall Man
  
  Wasting you time, these people are nuts.
  
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  November 12, 2020 8:23pm
Jack5

Maori renaming continues with Ngai Tahu wanting an “h” put into the spelling of Wakatipu.

The Hooerald reports that Whakatipu is the “undisputed Maori spelling”.

Was there Maori spelling when it was an unwritten language? Some might argue that Maori spelling in itself, including the macrons from Western typography, is a colonial construct.

The Department of Conservation and now the Bank of New Zealand seem to have given the lead to the Woke by putting an “h” into their spelling of Wakatipu.

The local-body PR organisation, Destination Queenstown, says if there is a move towards honouring the original spelling, it would support that.

Notice the use of the words, “honouring the original spelling”. There was no original spelling. Original pronunciation perhaps.

The Woke should note that, whatever their wishes, the great English language often incorporates relics without their pronunciation. It doesn’t necessarily go the whole hog.

So Queenstown could end up spending a lake of cash changing signs and documents and holding endless discussion, but still have the pronunciation of W(h)akatipu that is “h” less. It would, however, further complicate NZ place name spelling for foreign tourists.

The slaughter of English-language place names in NZ is by the Maori-dominated Geographic Place Names Board.

It doesn’t have the power to change the official name of New Zealand, but given the daily drive by our Leftist State TV and State Radio, and even by the moribund, subsidised print media, “Aotearoa” is still the final, big-victory target.

New Zealand has two official “written” languages: English and Maori. Why do the Woke and Maori try to impose Maori-language spelling and name versions in the English language?

Are Maori spelling and Maori names in English about orthography? Or is this about “decolonialisation” and putting Whities in their place?
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November 12, 2020 10:47am
- fernglas
  
  You are spelling it wrong. It is “the Whoke”
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:05pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Must be difficult to work out that Maori know how to speak words in their own language and can translate the spelling.
  
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  November 12, 2020 12:56pm
  - Jack5
    
    How did they do this before colonisation, Brian?
    
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    November 12, 2020 1:05pm
  - cmm
    
    How to speak a word has nothing to do with its spelling. Consider words like tough, psychology etc.
    
    The languages were documented by colonial linguists.
    
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    November 12, 2020 2:19pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Maori should be paying royalties to the Italians for the use of their alphabet. We British were once part of the Roman Empire so get free usage.
      
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      November 12, 2020 2:33pm
- cmm
  
  “Some might argue that Maori spelling in itself, including the macrons from Western typography, is a colonial construct. ”
  
  Of course the spelling is a colonial construct.
  
  At the time there were many such efforts including that in Africa to convert those languages into some written form.
  
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  November 12, 2020 2:16pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s about empowering Nga Tahu. Anyway its only an article meaning “like”, “sort of”, “in the manner of”, “style” … It appears throughout Polynesia in different forms. Not to be confused with waka which has to do duty as a boat, car, transport…
  
  NZ Maori is very deficient in root words and is basically fossilised about 1840. Tribes have their own variants as well. The massive push for the linguistic dinosaur is pidginising it rendering it unreadable as the expected grammar is frequently missing. Govt agencies add it to posters like ice cream. They are effectively destroying the language.
  
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  November 12, 2020 5:06pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_00Xx9b87A

Is China Stealing Indias Water?

China is building dams on two rivers that flow from Tibet
to India. Indian farmers are suffering. Water and silt flows are restricted.
China wants to make eight more dams. They have a plan to send it to
Xinjiang via a 600 mile tunnel. Injiang is to be a second California. Presumably
one with no Dems.
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November 12, 2020 12:14pm
- Jack5
  
  More expensive for China than the water they get for a song in New Zealand.
  
  Typical: a sharp New Zealander buys water extraction rights of a southern export company that’s been a big water user but is now going out of business (meat production and wool scouring are examples).
  
  The sharp Kiwi then sells the rights off to China. There’s some local resistance but the Chinese and their NZ business associates say there will be jobs in bottling.
  
  Now most of the bottling jobs are filled by Chinese especially brought to the country.
  
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  November 12, 2020 2:38pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Exported drinking water is utterly negligible, a total non-issue for anyone capable of basic arithmetic.
    
    4 3
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    November 12, 2020 3:42pm
curry4me

https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2020/11/why_scott_adams_of_dilbert_fame_and_i_say
_trump_wins_this_thing__bigly.html

If even one state falls, it’s over for Joe and instead of a Presidential Inauguration Committee there is a senior citizen, assisted living solution. [-;) I thought this was the money quote.]

Ok, sit back from your sleepless nights and fury every time you turn on Fox News and put down the Chardonnay and take a long, deep breath. Please! On Monday, Scott Adams of Dilbert fame, who is one of the finest critical minds in the podcast world quoted AmericanThinker.com’s article that said Trump was probably going to win this thing.
11 3
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November 12, 2020 12:15pm
Maggie Pie

And I see where the NZ Sign Writers Association has come out in favor of the Governments plan for the introduction of ‘bilingual road signs’ thruout the country.
But they would I guess.
15 2
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November 12, 2020 12:37pm
- Stu2
  
  Instant absorbtion of message is vital with road signs, not extra clutter
  
  12 1
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  November 12, 2020 12:54pm
- Jack5
  
  Maggie Pie, the sign writers will still win from the Maorification of place names.
  
  Bilingual signs would be better for them, if the two languages are English and Maori. But which would go on top? The one 95 per cent of people can read? I doubt it.
  
  Maori-only signs reflecting Maori pronunciation and with macrons, would be exotic and unfathomable for most overseas visitors.
  
  There is a case for bilingual signs: in English and Maori. They would be preferable to signs in Maori only, which, with the Maorification of New Zealand place names, is a possibility.
  
  Also it might be a clear demarcation: English names in English language, Maori names in Maori language.
  
  It might be a challenge to Woke warriors like those of Stuff to put there money where their keyboards are and publish in both Maori and English, with English-language names and terms in the English-language editions, and all Maori in the Maori editions.
  
  8 1
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  November 12, 2020 1:01pm
- Harriet
  
  There is a fucken lot of money in the DAAF signage business.
  You see 2 white lines in the middle of the road, something you have been tested for to receive a driver’s licence, and someone sometime in the future then gets paid to put up ‘no U-turn’ signs.
  
  You also see barriers placed around what can only be described throughout millennia as ‘grass seed starting to germinate’ and up goes a “stay off the grass’ sign.
  
  DAAF stands for DUMB AS ALL FUCK.
  
  And that also includes you — a voting tax and rate
  payer! 😎
  
  6 2
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  November 12, 2020 2:08pm
- rangitoto
  
  They should have speed limit signs in English. They are discriminating against English speakers when the speed signs are only shown with Indian numerals.
  
  7 3
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  November 12, 2020 2:27pm
  - Jack5
    
    Interesting point: the colonialists and their ancestors have been using Hindu-Arabic numerals only for nine centuries – not even a thousand years.
    
    Don’t hear them bitching about them and agitating for dual signs in the colonialists’ earlier Roman numerals, though.
    
    Nor are they agitating for signs in the indigenous European binary arithmetic, created by Leibniz 400 years ago.
    
    Rangitoto raises an interesting point: If we get dual Maori-English road signs, what will the Maori word for “stop” be? Tohu tū? Or whakamutu?
    
    What about “keep left””?
    
    2 1
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    November 12, 2020 9:23pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner was privy to a letter from one of his tenants (a Signwriting business). The estimates provided for the change over, should the project proceed, was between 80 – 100 million dollars.
  As he said, that would buy a lot of lunches for hungry school kids.
  
  8 2
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  November 12, 2020 3:47pm
- RJ
  
  How about we just have digital signs, put your race, gender and sexuality on your license plate and it can scan you then talk to you in what ever preference you want, then the precious won’t be upset
  
  4 1
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  November 12, 2020 4:27pm
- Tall Man
  
  Hmmm,
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2000/dec/05/martinwainwright
  
  Something to look forward to ..
  
  https://cyclingwales.co.uk/badlytranslated.html
  
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  November 12, 2020 7:28pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

https://babylonbee.com/news/girlfriend-keeps-referring-to-herself-as-wife-elect-despite-no-official-word-from-boyfriend/?
14 3
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November 12, 2020 1:18pm
- C J Southern
  
  Very funny, but as an analog, it’s fatally flawed in that choosing a fiance isn’t done via mass voting.
  
  3 8
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  November 12, 2020 2:38pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Sometimes done with fake voting (shotgun wedding)
    
    5 2
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    November 12, 2020 2:57pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    It would be more accurate if a third party, closely aligned to her (like her best friend) declared her the wife elect.
    
    Then you would have:
    The “husband” is the American people.
    The “Wife Elect” is Biden.
    The “Best Friend” is the media.
    
    5 2
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    November 12, 2020 3:40pm
Fletch

Affidavits from 101 poll workers the WH is attaching to its lawsuit in Michigan.

https://bit.ly/3ngh97M
14 2
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November 12, 2020 1:42pm
Fletch

Can anyone else play youtube videos? It looks like they have changed something and they won’t play on either of my browsers.

“An error occurred. Please try again later. (Playback ID: CQ1z0fH4vjnUF8gp)”
1 2
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November 12, 2020 2:17pm
- Fletch
  
  OK, it seems to work again now. They must have fixed it.
  
  4 2
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  November 12, 2020 2:46pm
  - RJ
    
    It went down for a little bit
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/youtube-back-up-after-outage-affects-users-worldwide/NRRY7IO3X6AZG3PJO7FGDUUNBM/
    
    6 0
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    November 12, 2020 4:14pm
I remember when

Lake Whakatipu or Lake Wakatipu?
As most South Islanders will not even notice there has been a change, and will continue to murder whichever, so be it.
Or, as our bus driver said when we were travelling to Milford Sound fifteen years ago, “Wakatip”.
7 1
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November 12, 2020 2:30pm
Jack5

Michael Reddell is back in action at his blog, Croaking Cassandra, analysing the Reserve Bank’s actions and inactions.

A sample:

There is no sign of a central bank acting as if it really believes it would be better to run the risk of a temporary overshoot of the inflation target. There is no sign of a central bank that acts as if it thinks cyclical unemployment is a scourge that should be countered aggressively, at least while the inflation outlook allows it. And there is no sign of a central bank acting as if it takes the slump in inflation expectations as something it needs to take seriously.

https://croakingcassandra.com/2020/11/12/not-doing-their-core-job/
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November 12, 2020 2:32pm
cmm

Does Chch City Council only exist to make Wellington’s look good?

Let’s ban vaping, but not enforce it.

So what’s the point?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/123371574/vaping-banned-in-christchurchs-parks-and-playgrounds
13 0
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November 12, 2020 2:34pm
- sooty
  
  How are you going to enforce it or smoking?
  Are you not endangering parking meter wardens by trying to stop it. Meter maid gets beaten up and the council opens it self up to enforcement by worksafe!
  
  0 0
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  November 12, 2020 10:17pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

Community transmission in Auckland CBD, infected person works in a CBD shop and lives in an apartment block. Here we covid again. Sigh.
7 0
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November 12, 2020 3:46pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Possible explanation for community case: Women lives next door to managed isolation facility (and Govt has tits for hands)
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/123378320/covid19-miq-guests-mingled-with-tenants-of-apartment-linked-to-community-case
  
  Again I ask; why do we have managed isolation facilities in our biggest population center? Any cock-ups result in 1.5 million people having to lock down at a cost of 10’s of millions per day. Should be in countryside or small town somewhere.
  
  12 0
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  November 12, 2020 4:05pm
  - greybeard
    
    For God’s sake stop being so sensible and practical.
    That is not the way we do things in NZ since 2017.
    
    2 0
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    November 12, 2020 6:37pm
    - sooty
      
      That sneaky chinky virus snuck out of the quarantine hotel and in to her flat, either that or a midnight rendezvous!
      
      0 0
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      November 12, 2020 10:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Part of the soon level 4. Think of the GST lost before Xmas. No?
  Jaspinda has total control now.
  
  7 1
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  November 12, 2020 5:36pm
- greybeard
  
  Yes.
  Now that the election is over, the day-to-day truth about CV-19 is being exposed.Thye
  The people in charge of the border controls are incompetent.
  The on-the-ground border control staff are even more incompetent.
  But above all, the government Ministers and their departmental staff handling this project are really bloody useless.
  
  7 2
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  November 12, 2020 6:25pm
- Philview
  
  I also read this evening something about 2 diners with Covid had a meal out in Wellington. Are those 2 people an old story or breaking news today?
  
  4 0
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  November 12, 2020 7:19pm
  - Batman
    
    Breaking news. They went to Little Penang on The Terrace.
    
    Makes the annoying task of scanning into places a bit more useful in case one is near one of those people.
    
    The girl who packed my bags at the supermarket last night had just tested negative after having been a near contact.
    
    It can get around easily.
    
    2 1
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    November 12, 2020 9:38pm
- Tall Man
  
  cindy’s got it …. Open and transparent will sort this.
  
  4 1
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  November 12, 2020 7:21pm
WaveyDavey

Two-tier justice system arrives.

Guess that’s what you get with activist judges

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/123372970/raft-of-changes-announced-by-chief-judge-for-nations-district-courts
6 2
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November 12, 2020 4:47pm
- Tall Man
  
  Lucky us.
  
  I’m certain that will stop P abuse, home invasions and baby killing.
  
  4 2
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  November 12, 2020 7:20pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Yay..
Gizzy is going to put its Endeavour replicas up…..

well, maybe….
sort-of….
perhaps not….
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/430462/gisborne-council-votes-to-install-two-controversial-endeavour-replicas
8 0
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November 12, 2020 5:27pm
Max

Okay so I am into a lot of different music genres. We subscribe annually to the Auckland Orchestra series, during 2020 we only have been able to attend two concerts and we were really looking forward to tonight. All dressed and ready to go when I had a text to say that the concert is cancelled due to the latest Covid ‘outbreak’. Lot’s of luck for the subscriptions next year, most sad for Western Music which the left pretend to love.
5 1
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November 12, 2020 7:10pm
Tall Man

It’s a sad world.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/123371095/father-and-son-overstayers-imprisoned-after-seeking-refugee-status

The covid con being used to it’s fullest extent.
3 2
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November 12, 2020 8:10pm
gorse

What a horrendously awful Judith/National bashing cartoon in Stuff. The work to defeat National in three years time has already started.
8 1
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November 12, 2020 8:59pm

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