General Debate 16 November 2020

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cmm

Another ridiculous article in the one dollar rag.

This time it’s about the Canterbury DHB. Now certainly Canterbury DHB has had various problems, especially overruns on building the new facilities, but the reporting just shows a complete lack of understanding about economics.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/123366403/boom-in-100kplus-salaries-at-cashstrapped-canterbury-health-board

“The number of Canterbury health board managers and administrative staff earning more than $100,000 has ballooned by 350 per cent in the past nine years.”

A few points to make about that: has this writer not heard of inflation? During the last 9 years the average wage has gone up approx 24% (approx 2.5% per year). That’s taken what was an $80K salary and pushed it over $100k. All the band of managers who were between $80k and $100k 9 years ago would have been pushed through.

If the writer was to look into any business, including $1uff itself, they’d find the number of people on $100k+ salaries has increased.

And, of course there’s the “nine years” bit to link it back to “nine years of neglect”.

“The number of medical staff earning more than $100,000 increased by 140 per cent in the same period, from 618 to 1502 employees.”

So from that we’re supposed to infer that all the money has been grabbed by the management because the manager over $100k increased by 350% while medical staff only increased by 140%.

Nope, medical staff are, rightfully, in a higher earning band than managerial staff. Many more were already earning over $100k, so inflation would have pushed up fewer.

And no bullshit article from $1uff would be complete without some bit of activism: “Public Service Association (PSA) national secretary Kerry Davies said DHB admin staff were “seriously underpaid because they are mostly women”.”

Yeah that’s right. We pay you 20% more if you are a person of penis. C’mon that’s laughable.
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November 16, 2020 8:00am
- Swifty
  
  Well spotted cmm.
  
  Piss-poor ‘reporting’.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:34am
  - cmm
    
    To be fair it doesn’t take much spotting.
    
    Take any random piece of $1uff out a more than 50% chance of encountering idiotic reporting and activism.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:01am
    - igm
      
      If it were not for taxpayers, surely this “Stuff” joke would have beeen wound up. They cannot be making a dollar with the advertising content they attract, and must be trading insolvently.
      “Stuff” cannot not be liquidated as they actually have no tangible assets, everything being leased from Fairfax (Aus).
      When they go it will be a real quick exit . . . sooner the better for taxpayers, sanity, and factual unbiased news.
      
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      November 16, 2020 9:29am
      - C J Southern
        
        Personally, I feel that the “quality” of their advertising (a lot of false and misleading clickbait from Outbrain) speaks volumes about their integrity & credibility (or rather lack of both).
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:08am
      - Justitia
        
        I pray for that day igm. May it come soon!
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:35am
  - Paulus
    
    No, no, normal reporting and still piss poor !
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:22pm
- Cantabrian
  
  If I remember correctly, the reporting of $100k salaries started during the early Clarke years (or prehaps before). At the time there were very few Public Servants getting that level, and it truely represented a measure of the senior management numbers. It has continued to puzzle me as to why the reporting level has not been increased to match inflation – there is no merit whatsoever in trying to make an over-time comparison in numbers based on salary levels.
  When I left my job in 1988 I was earning $60,000 – and didn’t appear in Annual Report salary stats. Exactly the same job today attracts around $180,000 – and is reported.
  Stupid and jealously-creating.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:42am
- C J Southern
  
  Additionally, I’m still waiting for someone from the left to explain to me how National were supposed to fund everything at optimal levels given that they had a MASSIVE shortfall in the tax take due (initially) to the GFC and (subsequently) the economic impact of 3 major regional earthquakes (and no, “doing a Labour” and irresponsibly borrowing ridiculous amounts isn’t a valid answer).
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:59am
- Paulus
  
  Isn’t $100,000 minimum wage for senior Public Servants ?
  Many staff on Tauranga Council are well above that paltry salary.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:50am
mikenmildagain

Happy International Day for Tolerance!
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November 16, 2020 8:01am
- muppeth8r
  
  its monday
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:43am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That too, but there is a Monday every week, while there is an International Day for Tolerance but once a year.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:06am
- Libertarians are right
  
  You should tell the Democrats. Maybe suggest they lay off their “Trump Accountability Project”?
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:17am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    There is always a limit to tolerance. Americans’ tolerance for Trump’s bullshit ran out after four years.
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:14am
    - Paulus
      
      And 75,000,000 people voted for Trump’s re election.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:51am
      - Batman
        
        Are you adding an extra five million to ease the pain?
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:06pm
    - freethinker
      
      Tolerance for democrat corruption etc ran out in 4 minutes.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:58am
      - C J Southern
        
        It’s been far more a case of “foundationless accusations of democrat corruption started after 4 minutes”.
        
        Either that or these Dems are really clever people; such wide-spread fraud without leaving ANY credible evidence. What ARE the odds eh?
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:11pm
  - MCos
    
    We live in NZ. The vast majority of people don’t know any Democrats.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:36am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Maybe it is time for us all to learn to tolerate the Wuhu Flu, and start living our lives again, but that would be just going one step to far.
  Fear seems far more easy to tolerate when it comes to this.
  Jacinda now has a mandate for fear tolerance for the next several years, sit back and enjoy the roller coaster ride.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:33am
Scott

Sunday morning futures on Fox is well worth watching for what’s actually happening in America. Rudi Giuliani and Sidney Powell were interviewed and are pointing to the dominion voting system in the swing states as a key point of contention. They allege the system was used to wipe out votes for Trump. While allowing illegal ballots for Biden.

They also allege that this system has been used overseas to swing elections. Stop counting the votes, work out how many votes you need to win, then use the system to allow fake ballots for your guy while wiping away votes for your opponent.

Giuliani alleges he has witnesses with affadavits who saw ballots coming in, all for Biden, no one else ticked, even other democrats. Manufactured ballots rushed through to swing the election.
Observers not allowed to watch the counting or being forced far away so they couldn’t actually see what was going on.
It seems to have been the plan right from the start. Fake polls to demoralise Republicans into staying home on election day. Biden barely campaigned. He didn’t need to, the fix was in.

And reliance on a hopelessly biased media that is not interested in the truth of the election, they don’t care how it happens, as long as Biden wins.

Sadly Americans cannot trust their media to tell them the truth. Or their officials to conduct elections honestly.
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November 16, 2020 8:03am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  What part of “lost” don’t you get Scott?
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:46am
  - softail 1450
    
    Brian McDonald, What part of “Corruption” don’t you get Brian?
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:43am
    - C J Southern
      
      Which part of “credible evidence required” don’t you get “softtail 1450”?
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:10am
  - Inandout
    
    What part of ‘healing and kindness’ do you swallow from Biden, now his underlings have said quite the opposite? Hunt down those who supported Trump they say while poor Joe just spouts on like a lost soul.
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:04am
    - C J Southern
      
      You’re trying to shift the goal posts; we’re discussing the integrity of the election – not “what Biden & his administration/supports may or may not do/believe”.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:36am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  When they are able to present facts and not make baseless allegations, then the courts may listen.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:58am
- C J Southern
  
  And yet – despite 38 law suits to date (at which they’d presumably present clear evidence of all this) – no evidence of fraud has been confirmed and no additional states or votes have come Trump’s way.
  
  The bottom line is that courts rely on credible evidence and valid legal argument to make decisions; they don’t rely on tweets and manufactured BS from sore losers.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:04am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The traps may be being harvested at present. Won’t it be fun if Trump’s team had the CIA monitoring the voting machines in real time with their specialty spying software?
    It’s early days yet. This election could be decided in the streets.
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:01am
    - C J Southern
      
      Do you actually believe that drivel – or are you just trolling? Serious question.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:12am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Considering scenarios; that’s ones possible.
        Wait to mid December to find out where the USA is going.
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:06pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Come mid December 3 things will be true;
        
        1. The Electoral College will vote to make Trump’s defeat official
        
        2. There will be about 5 weeks left before Biden’s inaugeration, and
        
        3. You lot will still be banging on about widespread fraud, but still without any credible evidence.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:22pm
  - freethinker
    
    Not so CJ check out the clearly wrong & biased decisions in the General Flynn & Roger Stone cases were the Judges are clearly corrupt and not upholding the Law.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:02am
    - C J Southern
      
      Here we go …
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:18pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      Biden and his, ahem, “transition team” are currently breaching the Logan Act by conducting affairs of state with foreign interests. They have no mandate or legal authority to do so. Remember General Flynn?
      
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      November 16, 2020 1:04pm
      - Batman
        
        Sigh, we covered this last week, dumdi.
        
        It’s not a breach of the Logan Act to receive congratulatory calls.
        
        Unlike Flynn where he was promising a foreign adversarial actor a repealing of sanctions.
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:11pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        “dumdi”? Speaking in tongues now?
        
        “Congratulatory calls” for what?
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:32pm
      - Batman
        
        Ok I’ll give you that. My rushed name pun was quite rubbish.
        
        Oh diddums, you’re still mad he won huh?
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:40pm
      - C J Southern
        
        One day you’ll get something right TPG; it’ll probably be a coincidence, but as they say, “even a stopped clock is right twice a day”.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:15pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        I like you Mr Critical Thinking. You are an archetypal modern man, unafraid to wear your deep intellectual insecurities on your sleave. The downticks really get to you. But you needn’t seek sanctuary in the acceptance of the crowd. It’s OK, I’ll validate you and assure you that you’re right if it eases your anxiety. I’m OK, you’re OK. But remember, it’s not your fault man. It’s really not.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:35pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Actually, my a self-confident SOB; I think of down-ticks as being others documenting their irrationality & stupidity.
        
        65D 14H 30M 😉
        
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        November 16, 2020 3:29pm
- SGA
  
  Scott, at this time of writing, none of the allegations and court cases has provided evidence of any systematic fraud or changed any results.
  
  Currently, the principle seems to be to throw enough shit around and see what sticks, and even if little does, then at least you give the impression that something stinks.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:17am
  - Surely Knott
    
    ” None of the allegations and court cases has provided evidence of any systematic fraud or changed any results.” That is a carefully contrived statement designed to ignore the fact that trump has had a win including a case that set said they can’t count the votes that were set aside. So yes that did change the result because otherwise they would have been counted. He’s legally entitled to have his claims and concerns reviewed by the court. So all good and part of a fair and robust process.
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:36am
    - Batman
      
      This is the definition of splitting hairs though?
      
      He got a tiny win over a few hundred or a thousand votes, and the rest of the challenges have been laughed out of court.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:02pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Lawyers are trained to split hairs. They can show 6 sides to a 2 sided coin. The brain gymn is fun.
        Some of the allegations may have a kernel of truth but uncovering it to evidence grade may be impossible.
        We just have to accept the final outcome. If the USA is so rotten that it purposefully shoots itself, it’s their problem before its’s ours.
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:13pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        Not splitting hairs. “He got a tiny win over a few hundred or a thousand votes.” He got a win on the ruling of how votes are to be counted and verified. That is an important point of legal clarification even if it doesn’t change the outcome of this election. That is the point of the courts . He has a right to due process.
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:54pm
      - Batman
        
        Yeah ok fine but it doesn’t apply elsewhere and ultimately won’t change anything.
        
        Hurrah?
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:12pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Here’s a good overview of where things stand – just to put things in perspective;
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300159161/us-election-donald-trump-lost-at-the-ballot-box-his-legal-challenges-arent-going-any-better
        
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        November 16, 2020 3:53pm
    - C J Southern
      
      1000 Lawyers seem to have a different perspective on it than you:
      
      “A group of 1000 attorneys, including retired US federal and state judges, state attorneys general and law professors criticised the Trump administration over baseless claims of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election.
      
      “Every candidate has a right to ensure that an election is conducted lawfully. However, court challenges, if any, must be based on facts, on evidence,” stated the letter, which asked public officials to stop making false claims of systemic fraud that US President Donald Trump has claimed “stole” the election from him.”
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/300158871/abuse-of-the-rule-of-law-1000-us-legal-professionals-slam-voter-fraud-claims
      
      What we’re seeing so far is mostly the equivalent to you calling an ambulance because you heard someone might have a pimple. When 1000 lawyers sign a letter stating that the legal process is being abused it’s time to sit up and take notice.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:29pm
      - david
        
        Would 1000 be 1% of the population of lawyers and judges in USA or less than 1%?
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:56pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        And what percentage of US lawyers would you say are signing a letter protesting election fraud?
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:29pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Fallacious. That’s an argument from authority.
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:35pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Even if it were only 1% that doesn’t mean that 99% didn’t agree with it.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:16pm
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        “Even if it were only 1% that doesn’t mean that 99% didn’t agree with it.”
        
        Fallacious. Doesn’t mean they did either.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:41pm
      - C J Southern
        
        I never tried to assert that it was; that was the tactic your side tried.
        
        65D 14H 03m
        
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        November 16, 2020 3:56pm
- Nick R
  
  Do you recall that episode of the Simpsons where Homer barbecues a whole pig only for Lisa to push it off rolling down the road? The pig goes through a series of disasters and Homer runs after it insisting, with increasing desperation, that “it’s still good”. That’s poor old Scott. All these conspiracy theories that somehow never actually come to anything, and all these lawsuits that crash and burn. I guess he’s never going to admit that Trump lost. So we can just sit here enjoying the popcorn and waiting for the magic silver bullet that will somehow, eventually, prove that Trump is right and everyone else is wrong. It’s still good.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:54am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Don’t tell me Scott’s going to put the Don back on the barbecue, there’ll be an explosion of fat and bs a mile high.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:18am
Maggy Wassilieff

I wonder why Labour isn’t splashing details of its new Trade deal all over the media?

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/430670/opposition-as-nz-joins-world-s-largest-free-trade-agreement

Have we really got a great deal…. or has China?
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November 16, 2020 8:07am
- muppeth8r
  
  I think we all know that part of the deal involves NZ getting a great price on vasaline and ky… cindy thinks we love getting screwed now
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:11am
- Simon
  
  These trade deals allows for a governance mechanism where binding laws are enforced on NZ without the consent of parliament.
  
  They are keeping it quiet because NZ gives up some sovereignty in exchange for a few dollars. Made worst by the involvement of China as everything they touch turns to shit.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:19am
  - igm
    
    May turn to shit, but they sure manufactured a virus to assist their world dominance in all fields.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:50am
  - Nickc2
    
    and don’t forget, we have signed up to UN dictate 2030 (sustainable development) and the ramifications that brings. In a few years, we need not worry about elections as we will be governed by China via the UN. Thanks Cindy, you have sold your country down the drain, all for a f…ing job and retirement at the UN.
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:00pm
- Master Mariner
  
  My thoughts exactly.
  What have they signed us up too?
  No confidence in Damian OConner
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:21am
- sooty
  
  The media doesn’t know,
  They haven’t been told yet!
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:32am
  - Cantabrian
    
    They haven’t asked!
    
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    November 16, 2020 8:44am
    - Inandout
      
      Canty, there is a promise of more money on the way to keep them sweet. Imagine being a journalist and having set boundaries to follow, and if crossed will lead to expulsion from the ‘club’? No wonder many turn to booze for solace.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:34am
- GazzaW
  
  Maybe because the negotiations were initiated eight years ago by the National Government.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:50am
  - tf78
    
    Gazza – it was a different world eight years ago. Notice all of a sudden we are going to be inundated with new infrastructure – Belt and Road anybody?!
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:34am
- Jack5
  
  Being in a trade deal with China is being in a poker game with the Don of the local mafia.
  
  In a modern version of “coals to Newcastle”, China has just reported finding Covid-19 on meat from New Zealand, Brazil and Bolivia. Earlier (on Friday), China found Covid-19 on pork from Argentina. Reuters reports that Argentina has stopped exports from eight meat processors.
  
  There will be news today of New Zealand’s response.
  
  The India-based international business magazine, Business Today, reports:
  
  The World Health Organisation says the risk of catching COVID-19 from frozen food is low, but China has repeatedly sounded alarms after detecting the virus on imported food products, triggering disruptive import bans.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:38am
- ex-golfer
  
  Of course they are keeping the lid on celebrations.
  This as a deal started and worked on mainly by the Nats (negotiations commenced eight years ago).
  Labour are just benefiting from the work of the previous Govt.
  And of course, they all supported opposition to Free Trade deals in the past – remember the motorways and streets of Auckland being blocked by protests at the TPPA? . They don’t want their supporters to see their blatant hypocrisy.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:48am
  - david
    
    O’Connor hinted at concessions last night. Who gave away what would be a legitimate question for the media to ask surely.
    
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    November 16, 2020 12:59pm
- softail 1450
  
  M W, We are going to need a mighty long bridge to make Cindys “Silk Road” a success , only one thing will come of this agreement for NZ, utter capitulation to the virus spreading CCP and Xi Jinping …
  We are nothing like the majority of our Aussie counterparts ,they resisted and still are ,we cowered down and positioned ourselves for wet kissing Chinese arsehole.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:52am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Deals with China are not worth a cup of cold water, they just pick and choose as they please, and we all roll over.
  An agreement that is one sided and manipulated as it starts is not an agreement. It is a fate accomplice.
  But you need strong leaders to stand up to the bully boy tactics, this will not happen.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:40am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    fait accompli (plural faits accomplis) An accomplished fact, something that has already occurred; a (colloquial American) “done deal”.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:31am
    - Pharmachick
      
      To be fair Urban, I think Greg got autocorrected into that. I have trouble with autocorrect and latin all the time.
      
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      November 16, 2020 1:51pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  This agreement has been under negotiation since 2012. New Zealand first got involved when National was in office. TPP and RCEP were seen as tying the whole AsiaPacific into a two interlocking deals. However the Trump pulled out of TPP. Will Biden seek to get back in?
  Anyone who opposes RCEP has decided Jane Kelsey is their best buddy.
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:08am
  - Jimbob
    
    Please don’t mention that Woman’s name.
    
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    November 16, 2020 12:31pm
Simon

New Zealand’s astounding wealth gap challenges our ‘fair go’ identity

Overall, the wealthiest 10% have 59% of all the country’s assets, and the middle classes around 39%. That leaves the poorest half of the country with just 2%.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/aug/31/new-zealands-astounding-wealth-gap-challenges-our-fair-go-identity

The massive RBNZ money print is causing large asset price inflation. The wealthiest 10 % are going to see a massive jump in their wealth. The next 40% will trundle along. The bottom 50% are going to be left in the dust.

Question. Is Cindy an utter fucking clown or are the voters?

Labour Cabinet a collection of very average people who have managed to hustle their way into very high paying and powerful jobs.

Labour the party of the hustle.
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November 16, 2020 8:07am
- Frank the tank
  
  The answer to your question is both.
  
  Labour’s strategy for the next 3 years is to hold onto as much of National’s traditional female voters as they can. The top 1% usually do very well out of a Labour government.
  
  We still have a narrative that the PM saved 80,000 lives and the government will milk that for years to come……
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:54am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Unfortunately you are correct Frank. I morning tea’d with a couple of Cindy fanatics the other day – they’re still absolutely gushing with her ‘didn’t she do well!’ election result.
    
    The honest core of their beliefs is essentially: ‘Oh, Jacinda is just so clever. She really has worked her Govt out and all she has to do now is stay in the centre to keep power forever.’ Absolutely no point in me mentioning that it sounded a bit Blairite and mythical ‘third way’…
    
    The central theme is that Cindy still represents enormous symbolic meaning and value for a large number of female (Pākehā) voters in this country.
    
    One interesting takeout for me though, was that these particular people—without in any way sounding racist—believe that Marama is crass and vulgar! They’re so happy that Cindy has expertly transferred the risk of social policies going wrong to the Green Party of Aotearoa/New Zealand.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:48am
    - Frank the tank
      
      I don’t bother talking politics with my sister or mother anymore. I suspect i’m not the only one.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:49am
    - Bob
      
      ‘transferred the risk..’ This is the practice of Adern, never be seen any where near the smoking candle when a disaster occurs.
      
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      November 16, 2020 11:13am
- C J Southern
  
  “Question. Is Cindy an utter fucking clown or are the voters?”
  
  Trick question; the answer is both.
  
  The wealth gap thing is misleading; if Bill Gates gets $10,000,000,000 richer and I “only” get $1,000,000 richer the gap has increased – but I’m FAR better off (a result I would be more than happy with).
  
  If seems to all come from some stupid notion of there only being so much money in the world and “the rich are getting it at the expense of the poor”.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:09am
  - Simon
    
    The RBNZ will make matters much worse. This isnt about the production of goods and services in the economy but inflating asset values to the detriment of wider society. This is on Cindy and the failure of government.
    
    Rich in NZ terms is 6.2million. (not bill gates)
    
    The typical (median) person in the 1% is worth $6.2m. In contrast, the typical New Zealander is worth only $92,000 – 68 times less.
    
    Among those in the poorest half of the country, meanwhile, the average person owns assets worth just $46,000 and has debts of $33,000, leaving them with a net worth of $12,000. They have negligible wealth in trusts and on average just $4,000 in the bank, leaving them vulnerable to sudden financial shocks.
    
    When it comes to the middle classes – the 40% of the country who are above the mid-point but below the wealthiest 10% – have a higher net worth, on average $352,000, most of it tied up in housing.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:26am
    - rangitoto
      
      The numbers are a bit misleading. A lot of those bottom 50% are young. Most people have little in the way of assets when young. When I left uni at 21 my net wealth was roughly zero but i landed a well paying job and accumulated assets over time.
      
      PS. A lot of students these days end their education with negative net wealth
      
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      November 16, 2020 1:05pm
- Nickc2
  
  Yep, how quick Socialists become Capitalists.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:09am
- tf78
  
  Simon more like they are just the pawns on the chess board.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:37am
- Bob
  
  ‘a collection of very BELOW average people’…..
  fixed it for you.
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:11am
- Wayne Mapp
  
  The RBNZ would be doing this irrespective of whether Labour or National was the government. It is a coordinated approach by all western central banks
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:11am
  - pdm
    
    WM -I am not so sure.
    
    I have no confidence in the current Reserve Bank Governor
    
    7 2
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    November 16, 2020 12:09pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    “It is a coordinated approach by all western central banks”
    
    Good. Can we please then put the “that’s just a conspiracy theory” go-to “rebuttal” for anything people don’t like to hear to bed once and for all?
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:14pm
I remember when

Looking forward to the new world after covid.
I’m going to get a job as a street cleaner.
Working from home!
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November 16, 2020 8:13am
Maggie Pie

Had a few of the boys from the Local Volunteer Fire Brigade pop in yesterday afternoon to say hello. Needless to say, the discussion was all about the ‘Puma’ in the room. They all agreed with my partner that you couldn’t blame Ian Foster for the defeat.
Nek minit, they’re all agreeing it wouldn’t have happened if ‘Shag’ was still the coach.

Talk about confusing.
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November 16, 2020 8:20am
- sooty
  
  Did they bring their big red truck and let you operate the bells and whistles?
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:33am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Because we’re on the beach, maybe they think I’m a Siren 😛
    
    25 7
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    November 16, 2020 8:57am
- Raphael
  
  only 3 games ago we handed Australia their worst Bledisloe defeat.
  
  I think the folk calling for Foster’s head after two bad games are over reacting a little.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:42am
  - Philview
    
    All Ian needs to do is make a high profile comment about his love for Jacinda and the media will then leave him alone.
    
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    November 16, 2020 8:55am
  - pdm
    
    Raphael I disagree – Foster was poor at The Chiefs and it looks like nothing has changed.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:12am
- Catgurl13
  
  NZ needs to face the fact our time to be rugby Kings is over. The problem is NZ rugby is very vain. They need to get real and realise it’s over and has been for some time. Things strated going down hill after we lost the world cup.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:58am
  - MCos
    
    “NZ needs to face the fact our time to be rugby Kings is over.”
    I’ve heard that a few times over the years started when we lost to Wales in 1905.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:55am
    - mark15
      
      Jesus,you’re that old you must have voted democrat.
      
      7 2
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      November 16, 2020 10:58am
    - Catgurl13
      
      Well it’s well and truely over now for sure.
      
      5 4
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      November 16, 2020 11:23am
  - rockape
    
    Yes England now has the crown.
    
    3 2
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    November 16, 2020 10:29am
    - pdm
      
      Actuall the yarpies do – they are RWC holders.
      
      5 0
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      November 16, 2020 12:11pm
    - Jimbob
      
      Talking of England, does that last game ring any bells with the last time we played England?
      
      3 2
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      November 16, 2020 12:37pm
  - The Boss
    
    The cracks started to appear during the Lions tour.
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:10pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      1971?
      
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      November 16, 2020 2:12pm
- Nigel Kearney
  
  When the team wins, congratulate the players. When the team loses, blame the coach. It’s the Kiwi way.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:38am
  - sooty
    
    If the coach only has a bunch of girls, what happens?
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:40am
  - MCos
    
    You clearly don’t follow English football.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:57am
  - rangitoto
    
    I blame Cindy. Wouldn’t have happened if Judith was PM.
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:12pm
Ehlana

Continuing the theme of dubious “journalism” – the link Maggie provided seems very light on specifics of such a big deal – I offer this: https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/new-zealand-foreign-affairs-minister-nanaia-mahutas-path-to-top-diplomat/A6SJJJKQPQHDYZJ7TIQM2JJBAE/
I’ve been curious about the choice of Nanaia Mahuta since it was made, not least because all the press seemed to know was that she was Maori, female and has a moko. Surely the political editor for the Herald would know more. I learnt Nanaia was born into a high-ranking Maori family, so was present when Maori leaders visited her family home. She went into Parliament aged 26 as list MP, has been there 24 years and is now a Maori electorate MP. There was no mention of educational attainment, work experience or accomplishments outside Parliament, community leadership, welfare interests, national or international participation or leadership or any background in matters international at all. So what has she been doing all this time, to warrant this important position?
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November 16, 2020 8:20am
- Simon
  
  “So what has she been doing all this time, to warrant this important position?”
  
  [Mod: leave out the personal abuse]
  
  She is a signal of surrender to the globalist. The UN or WEF position on international matters will be NZ’s.
  
  The “important position” is finished. NZ no longer has a position.
  
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  December 16, 2019 8:59am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  She is there for one reason only her name is Mahuta.
  Look at other Maori MPs. Tirikatene is only there because of his name and Ruawhe who is a Labour Maori electorate MP is descended from Ratana.
  
  NZ version of the House of Lords.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:26am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    We’re very British old chap.
    
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    November 16, 2020 8:51am
- Bill Felt
  
  “She is someone who builds fantastic relationships very, very quickly. That is one of the key jobs in a foreign affairs role” Jacinda Ardern.
  
  Two weeks in and she has insulted the Chines through her tweet about Hong Kong in a tweet that was done on her iPhone and was grammatically incorrect!
  
  And she has sided with most of the rogue states in the world to critcise Israel.
  
  Good start Nanaia!
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:29am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Being diplomatic means considering the facts and using tact, which requires considered communication.
    
    Tweeting is bad enough, doing it from your mobile phone is atrocious. Doing it is as a Diplomat is unforgivable. A flippant comment made on the spur of the moment is anything but diplomatic.
    
    All this does is show she is not Diplomat material, and should not have a twitter account, or for that matter a mobile phone. Grounds for instant dismissal.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:03am
    - ex-golfer
      
      You don’t seriously think she would have done those tweets herself?
      They would have been done by her political advisor/press sec – but signed off by Mahuta.
      Top ranking pollies, especially members of Cabinet no longer have full control over their social media – its all done by their advisors.
      Trump would be the only leader in the world to still control his own Twitter account.
      
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      November 16, 2020 9:53am
      - Batman
        
        Ahhh that depends on how interested in social media the MP is and how boring the content is. A lot do have access and do tweet / post when they want to.
        
        The staff usually post all the boring shit about announcements and links to media releases etc.
        
        In the case of foreign affairs, the tweet will be taken from a statement which will have been massaged and worked on by the minister, staff, and officials to within an inch of its life. Then posted by a staffer perhaps but the exact wording will have been chosen by the Minister I expect.
        
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        November 16, 2020 9:58am
      - ex-golfer
        
        Worked in a Cabinet Ministers office have you Batman?
        I have, and I know the insides of how these things work.
        I was not surmising what happens – I know what happens.
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:07am
      - JackRabbit
        
        “They would have been done by her political advisor/press sec ”
        
        Even worse still.
        
        “Mahuta, say nothing, just move your mouth and lips in time to the voice you hear. We control your email, and your social media. We don’t need your opinions and if you say anything it might trigger riots. So shut up and do as you are told. The only reason you are here is you are Maori.”
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:20am
      - Pharmachick
        
        Yeah, when our Uni hired a new President a few years ago, the Comms dept had a total coronary b/c he insisted on running his own twitter feed. Actually he’s done very well [so far], informative, interesting, considered…
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:07pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Should the president of the US be on Twitter?
      
      3 9
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      November 16, 2020 9:55am
      - C J Southern
        
        What I would LOVE to see is everybody communicating via whatever medium they wanted SO LONG AS THEY ONLY PUBLISHED TRUTHFUL THINGS.
        
        What I keep reading is 99+% “heat” and <1% "light".
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:18am
      - JackRabbit
        
        No-one who understands communication, and who believes in quality of communication and well considered replies, should be on twitter.
        
        Twitter is often no more intelligent than apes in a forest grunting at each other as a show of who has the biggest gonads. Or for that matter primitive savages around a fire holding up their new acquired heads taken in battle.
        
        Twitter: “A forum to make reactive off the cuff comments, with a 100% guarantee you will make known things that should be kept to yourself, or things that no-one else finds interesting; a 98% guarantee that you piss someone off; and a 67% guarantee that will either immediately or sometime in the future regret posting and wish you could retract.”
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:33am
      - C J Southern
        
        @JackRabbit
        
        I have a saying for Facebook that applies just as much to Twitter (if not moreso):
        
        “It’s where 90% of people document their stupidity for the world to see and the other 10% laugh at them. 100% of the 90% think they’re part of the 10%”.
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:32pm
      - RJ
        
        Should Arden be on Facebook.
        
        7 1
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        November 16, 2020 12:47pm
      - JackRabbit
        
        @C J Southern
        
        And that’s the reason I do not have a Facebook account. No doubt I have a ‘shadow’ Facebook account created by Facebook, as do most people not on Facebook but active on the internet.
        
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        November 16, 2020 5:12pm
    - Jimbob
      
      That’s what little girls do.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:39pm
- sooty
  
  She’s special. That’s all you need to know!
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:35am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  “So what has she been doing all this time, to warrant this important position?”
  
  [Deleted – Mod]
  
  She has made incredible scientific and social discoveries. Nanaia proved the existence of intelligent life in the Beehive.
  
  Nanaia is a polyglot – not just in English and Maori but also in most of the worlds languages. She came top of her school in Geography. Ditto Mathematics.
  
  World leaders don’t do nothing unless they have consulted with her. Her motivational speeches are legendary.
  
  What a role model!!!
  
  WE SURE ARE BLESSED!
  
  [Mod – by all means be sarcastic, but lay off the personal stuff]
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:36am
- RF
  
  Remember that chap Cunners who wanted to join the list to be one of Labour’s PMs.
  
  He chose Mahuta as his running mate. That did not end well for both.
  
  Labour has the numbers but not the quality !!!!
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:42am
I remember when

Have become aware of a Rheumatic Fever case that touches several of the ‘red flags’ but can’t really be fully explained.
The case is Pacific Island so raises the question of whether there is a genetic propensity.
There is some over crowding but the houses are not in a state of disrepair or unduly cold/damp.
Does the winter, especially, when the windows are more often closed present an increased risk.
Does the prevalence show the increasing difficulty caused by the lack of availability of doctor appointments in many areas.
The case does not seem to have had a serious strep throat infection in the immediate past.
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November 16, 2020 8:35am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It needn’t be a severe case of strep throat that sets off the chain of events leading to Rheumatic Fever.
  
  Some folks don’t realise that they have the illness… don’t recognise the symptoms…
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/122260447/we-have-totally-failed-rheumatic-fever-the-third-world-disease-entrenched-in-new-zealand
  
  The disease isn’t restricted to folks from damp, crowded impoverished houses, but it’s within that environment that the strep A bacteria spreads.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:59am
- MCos
  
  My pakeha brother in law died young as a consequence of consequence of contracting rheumatic fever as a child.
  They were a big family by today’s standards living in a typically cold Oamaru home of the time.
  A kid at my sons school whose heart was left badly damaged by rheumatic fever died right there on the classroom floor. The kids managed to revive him, but by the time the ambulance arrived he was gone again.
  The NZ houses dating back about sixty years or more that haven’t been upgraded are often freezing and damp in the winter no matter where you are in the country.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:20am
- Pharmachick
  
  I’ve seen a couple GWAS studies on rheumatic fever, they’ve not been able to ascribe anything to human genetics thus far. Not so sure about bacterial genetics and the locality of strains.
  
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  November 16, 2020 2:12pm
Ruahine

Nania Mahuta is the archetypal example of racial privilege.
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November 16, 2020 8:37am
- Frank the tank
  
  I’d argue that individual represents the archetypal example of nepotism and laziness.
  
  How many years in parliament and no major achievements to date?
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:50am
- JackRabbit
  
  Nania Mahuta is the archetypal example of racism.
  
  Fixed it.
  
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  November 16, 2020 8:50am
- Simon
  
  Mahuta is landed gentry.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:06am
- Ehlana
  
  And yet according to their Manifesto 2020, Labour’s first value is: Equality. “Our vision of a just society is founded on equality and fairness. We believe in more than just equal opportunities—we believe in equity and equality of outcomes. An equal society is built on inclusion, respect for diversity, and co-operation.” How is aristocracy reconciled with equality?
  On the other hand, they believe in equality of outcomes while collecting salaries and perks well beyond those available to other New Zealanders, so I suppose I shouldn’t be too surprised.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:06am
  - JackRabbit
    
    …we believe in… …equality of outcomes.
    
    Open statement of Marxism.
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:24am
    - oob
      
      Exactly. Bang on, JackRabbit.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:36pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      As Marxists, they also believe in the “ends” justify the means.
      
      Once you go down that path, and start rolling the “righteous” snowball down the hill, everything in its path gets run over.
      
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      November 16, 2020 5:17pm
  - alloytoo
    
    “we believe in equity and equality of outcomes”
    
    Do they also believe in the tooth fairy?
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:47am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Why bring race into it? Jonathan Hunt was more or less the same.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:42am
- KevO'Brien
  
  As the daughter of Sir Robert Mahuta, brother of the current Maori King, Nanaia certainly has standing. She is considered to be likely successor.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:12am
  - Nickc2
    
    Successor to what? Brother or King? Doesn’t the King have some kids of his own?
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:16am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Yes, he has 2 sons and at least one grandchild.
      
      His youngest son has a few convictions… the latest for assaulting his partner.
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/114032045/maori-kings-son-sentenced-after-punching-partner#:~:text=Paki%2C%20the%20second%20eldest%20of,assault%20on%20December%2014%2C%202018.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:03pm
      - Nickc2
        
        TKS Maggy. I was going to mention the convictions but thought better of it as I don’t need to get pounced on by the Mod’s again.
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:49pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Why wasn’t he convicted of attempted rape?
        It’s certainly what it looks like to me?
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:14pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        They’re all the bloody same…..look at Andrew 🙁
        
        3 3
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        November 16, 2020 1:16pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It is in reply to Kev O’Brien’s point that Nanaia Mahuta may be in line to succeed King Tuheitia.
        
        The Maori King’s eldest son does not have children and so represents a dead end for succession.
        
        Korotangi Paki seems to have a number of problems and it doesn’t seem like the mantle of the King movement would sit easily on his shoulders.
        
        (K. Paki was boarding next door whilst living in Gisborne).
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:44pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        But surely the King’s eldest son could rule and succession would revert to Korotangi Paki’s kids? I’m not sure how the question of succession is/has been decided by the Maori court. Times like this, I really miss Te Atairangikaahu.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:19pm
Frank the tank

Welcome to the era of the WokeBlacks. The Haka will be top notch and all the players will be able to count to ten in Maori.

The rest……well we are covid free and our PM (and no 1 fan) saved 80,000 lives so that’s all that matters.
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November 16, 2020 8:43am
- Simon
  
  “Welcome to the era of the WokeBlacks”
  
  Yep woke SJW from marketing are running the ABs.
  
  In the RWC semi last year the haka lasted longer than the game after England scored their try 2 minutes after kickoff.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:09am
- Inandout
  
  Frank, did they ‘take the knee’?
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:18am
C J Southern

US Election Reality Check

Suits filed: 37
Proceedings concluded: 20
States gained due to legal action: 0
Votes gained due to legal action: 0
Cases of election fraud proven: 0

Transition to Biden countdown: 65D 21H 06M

Status: The countdown is proceeding normally. All lights are green. All systems are go
#ReportEnds
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November 16, 2020 8:53am
- Frank the tank
  
  Yawn.
  
  Much like Cindy worshipers are realising you aren’t going to like the Joe years too much especially if Mitch retains control of the Senate and Kevin hooks the house in 2 years.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:00am
  - C J Southern
    
    I’m not making any comments on Biden’s presidency; merely reporting election fact.
    
    Looks like 9 people (so far) are out of touch with reality; unfortunately for them, that doesn’t change reality.
    
    9 14
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    November 16, 2020 9:26am
  - Fletch
    
    It also looks like Pelosi may lack the votes to retain her position as Speaker. There are more Republicans now, and last time 15 Dems voted against her. There only needs to be 10 now.
    
    18 3
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    November 16, 2020 9:32am
    - Inandout
      
      Fletch, why hasn’t she retired? Her voice is getting more strained and her diction more measured.
      
      12 2
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      November 16, 2020 11:23am
- alloytoo
  
  75 Million people need valid explanations for what they perceive to be irregular activities.
  
  Simply saying “Nothing to See here” delegitimizes Biden and the process irrespective of the outcome.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:28am
  - C J Southern
    
    Or more precicely “75 million people have been told that there irregular activities but no evidence of this has been offered”.
    
    There isn’t a problem but the republicans are trying to create a problem.
    
    And let’s be honest here; very few of those who have swallowed the conspiracy theory crap are going to change their minds regardless of how much valid explanation they recieve because they’re so stupid they’re fundamentally unable to reach a valid conclusion despite an overwhelming amount of evidence that all points one way and one way only.
    
    How people can continue to be so stupid is beyond me.
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:24am
    - alloytoo
      
      Plenty of evidence irregularity has been presented.
      
      Whether is it enough to change the result is doubtful.
      
      However every allegation should be investigated, confirmed or debunked.
      
      Simply calling people “Deplorable” isn’t enough.
      
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      November 16, 2020 11:23am
      - Batman
        
        The only problem is that when they are debunked, the believers cry out “but that’s fake news!” Or “of course the agency would say that, they’re part of the deep state!”
        
        They’re insulating themselves from fact, reason, and logic. They will believe whatever keeps their space safe.
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:09pm
      - C J Southern
        
        “Plenty of evidence irregularity has been presented.”
        
        Umm – well that’s the thing; no – it hasn’t. The only question remaining is “why?”
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:34pm
    - Jimbob
      
      December the 14th is the day when the 500 odd delegates from the states vote. If the majority vote Biden, it is legally all over.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:46pm
  - Inandout
    
    alloy, Judith congratulated Joe so he must have won. Well Judith would know…wouldn’t she?
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:24am
    - Flossie
      
      Did the PM also congratulate Joe ?
      
      2 2
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      November 16, 2020 12:50pm
- dcrane
  
  The most important fraud was almost certainly the October cooperative coverup of the Biden family grifting/influence peddling scandal by the mainstream media and Silicon Valley social media, who banned anyone from circulating that news, even the 4th largest paper in the US. Orwell would have been impressed.
  
  Given how close the election was, this was probably decisive. 2 weeks of this scandal would easily have pushed 1-2% of the vote away from Biden in crucial states.
  
  After all, Biden’s entire campaign was based on the fiction that he represented a man of character, when he’s really just as accomplished a grifter and liar as Trump is.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:47am
  - Inandout
    
    dcrane, silicon valley may be tethered to the Dems but they came very close to losing their immunity from libel. Knowing how easily the left eat their own it would wise for whichever side wins to rein in the big tech companies.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:29am
  - MCos
    
    Even the eternal victim Trump, who seems to be slandering everyone connected to the US election vote count, seems to have given up on the Biden corruption angle.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:57am
    - dcrane
      
      Not sure why he would bother; proving Biden’s corruption further won’t change the election result. What matters is that that corruption was concealed from the public in October by the biased news media and social media corporations.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:49pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        How did you get to hear about this alleged corruption?
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:32pm
    - Inandout
      
      Mco, I guess this crowd has been photoshopped, no other explanation.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cndjGvLDxXA&list=PLDQ1YxpBwDLGgq5zUlAij6xHdfnBpM-eI
      
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      November 16, 2020 1:00pm
      - MCos
        
        What are we looking at that’s particularly special?
        More people turned out to watch Bruce at Mt Smart!
        
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        November 16, 2020 3:52pm
- freethinker
  
  Court decisions either way are irrelevant if appealed until finally decided or no further appeals conducted.
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:24am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Looking at a few of the cases (like the “you had a non-zero number of observers so case dismissed” one or the “but how is it fraud?” – “we’re not alleging fraud” – “but how is it fraud?” one), they seem prime for appeals. This should allow the real case to be held by someone with the power to actually make precedent.
    
    Not that I believe it will work, just that the cases I’ve seen (from Stuff) haven’t exactly been treated in a non-partisan way.
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:06pm
    - C J Southern
      
      They’ve been treated according to LAW. Why anyone expected favourable judgements based on Tweets and accusations from sore losers is beyond me.
      
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      November 16, 2020 2:30pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Really? A judge harassing a lawyer to prove fraud, when all he was trying to prove was that the votes were illegal isn’t treatment according to LAW. The tweet thing is my point, the tweets were irrelevant. It doesn’t matter what Trump tweets, his tweets aren’t the lawyer’s argument and the judge has no right referencing his tweets to knock down the lawyer’s argument (Trump declared fraud but the lawyer never did so it was wrong of the judge to bring it up).
        
        Likewise, the non-zero one was irrelevant. The law defines what constitutes “observing” and having a non-zero number of people in the room doesn’t come close to adhering to the LAW.
        
        Look, I don’t know if fraud happened of if it was all just one big ugly mess, but those judgments don’t pass the smell test, they just don’t.
        
        I honestly don’t think any fraud can be proven, but the GOP are within their rights to try.
        
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        November 16, 2020 3:49pm
- Critical Thinker
  
  “Many of the court cases being filed all over the Country are not ours, but rather those of people that have seen horrible abuses. Our big cases showing the unconstitutionality of the 2020 Election, & the outrage of things that were done to change the outcome, will soon be filed!”
  https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1328100945570500608
  
  ??
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:48am
  - C J Southern
    
    “Many of the court cases being filed all over the Country are not ours, but rather those of people that have seen horrible abuses”
    
    No – they’re pathetic attempts from sore losers to pervert the course of justice and are being dealt with appropriately by the courts.
    
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    November 16, 2020 2:32pm
    - muppeth8r
      
      like the dems 4 years of constant attacks and bogus claims, does that not make them sore losers?
      
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      November 16, 2020 4:37pm
rouppe

Violent clashes

What I saw in the three photos :
1) A Trump supporter flashing a peace sign at a woman approaching with a clenched fist
2) A mob surrounding and attacking a lone Trump supporter
3) A lone Trump supporter taken to the ground by” someone”

What the heralds calls it
1) A woman gestures as she argues with a counter-protester
2) A supporter of President Donald Trump has water poured on after he sprayed a substance at people who were surrounding him
3) A supporter of President Donald Trump is wrestled to the ground during a pro-Trump march in Washington

If roles were reversed it would be racism, fascism and far-right extremists

Awful reporting
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November 16, 2020 9:02am
- C J Southern
  
  “lone Trump supporter”? I thought there were over a million Trump supporters … do they not stick up for their own?
  
  If it’s your assertion that the “clenched fist” was a prelude to her punching the innocent Trump supporter then I think you’re drawing a long bow; you wouldn’t leave a thumb sticking out when punching unless you want to break it.
  
  The reality is that BOTH sides are acting like immature idiots.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:44am
  - Critical Thinker
    
    Black Lives Matter pulls woman’s hair and sucker punches her at the Million MAGA March
    ?
    https://youtu.be/sNLHQyZNi90?t=39
    
    There is only one side that has been looting and burning down buildings ?
    
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    November 16, 2020 9:53am
    - alloytoo
      
      That’s fiery but peaceful.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:14am
    - C J Southern
      
      When all groups are behaving like imbeciles there will be copious examples from both sides of imbecile-like behaviour.
      
      Linking to compilations of examples from one side doesn’t in any way “document the innocence” of the other side; it just shows the impartiality of your position.
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:42am
    - freethinker
      
      BLM/Democrats have legitimized those actions so do not be surprised if the other side use the same tactics – Gun & Ammunition sales increased significantly in the US!
      
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      November 16, 2020 11:27am
      - muppeth8r
        
        im hoping the patriots step up and sort the mess in usa, not just the election but all the woke and blm crap thats consuming the nation. its not a matter of if but when.
        
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        November 16, 2020 4:40pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      A “mostly not-punching and violently attacking people counter-protest”
      
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      November 16, 2020 11:38am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    “The reality is that BOTH sides are acting like immature idiots.”
    Really, Trump supports burning down city centres?
    and
    BTW
    What was your position when Trump said EXACTLY what you have said here?
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:17am
    - C J Southern
      
      So it’s your position that the “million” Trump supporters are all acting rationally? Pull the other one.
      
      “What was your position when Trump said EXACTLY what you have said here?”
      
      I didn’t have a position then because I didn’t know that he said it until you told me (I’ll take your word about it). So assuming that is EXACTLY what Trump said then my poisition is “I agree with him 100%”.
      
      Being a toxic pig who seeks to divide the nation for his own personal gain who lies constantly doesn’t mean that he’s always wrong. And me saying it doesn’t mean that I think Biden will be any better either (I do however believe that he’s an infinitely better human being with far more credibility (at this stage) than Trump though).
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:33am
      - RW Capitalist
        
        All the violence bar 1 or 2 relatively minor incidents were Biden or at the time Sanders supporters.
        The divisions were sewn by Obama (“Travon Marten could have been my son”. A drug dealing violent criminal who was in the process of banging a HISPANIC neighbourhood watch guy’s head off the pavement, could have been his son…or was it just because he was black?)
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:43am
      - Frank the tank
        
        When all is said and done Trump has 2 major political achievements:
        
        1). Stopped Hillary becoming president and ended that grifter’s Washington swamp life.
        2). Reinvented the GOP at a time they were slipping into irrelevance with stale turd candidates such as Romney and McCain.
        
        As a long time GOP supporter and follower I will always be grateful for the above.
        
        HOWEVER his time is done.
        
        Time to wander off into the sunset, start Trump TV and support the next wave of GOP leaders such as Haley, Rubio and Cruz who are now ready to assume the mantle of leadership of the US.
        
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        November 16, 2020 11:01am
      - Batman
        
        You’re right about Haley and Rubio but Cruz has an essential problem in that nobody likes him.
        
        If he runs, he will be a 2% primary candidate.
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:05pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Let Biden show that the allegations of him and family profiting from his Office are untrue. Both Clintons and Obama’s have done well out of it too.
        Some graft goes with the job but there are limits.
        
        Biden also needs to show his mental fitness–he has made too many mistakes in public recently that re-certification is needed. Surely a better quality Dem Candidate was available. What game are they playing? Harris for POTUS when she couldn’t get any selection votes?
        
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        November 16, 2020 12:32pm
      - alloytoo
        
        Sorry “Frank the tank”
        
        Reported your comment by accident.
        
        Mods please disregard that.
        
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        November 16, 2020 1:03pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Cowards attack people by themselves. Basically, they wait until people leave. I assume they learnt from their mistakes with Kyle Rittenhouse and are only attacking unarmed people that are by themselves now.
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:25am
  - rouppe
    
    My assertion? I’ve asserted nothing of the sort, I don’t even know whether a punch was thrown.
    
    You making something up about me and demanding I defend it is the sort of rubbish that is driving debate to ever decreasing lows.
    
    I will assert that the violence is being initiated by the ~~neo-fascist BLM~~ “counter protesters”
    
    The fact is that when the roles are reversed, there is no equivocation over apportioning the blame
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:59am
    - C J Southern
      
      Sounds to me like you’re trying lay bate and then proclaim innocance when someone takes it; if you’re not trying to imply that a punch from one of them “neo-fascist BLM / counter protesters” was imminent then there was no reason to even mention it. Let’s be honest – you mentioned it to imply something – and now you’re back-peddling faster than an olympic cyclist.
      
      “You making something up about me and demanding I defend it is the sort of rubbish that is driving debate to ever decreasing lows.”
      
      Exactly the opposite actually – it’s YOU making up things about me. Go back – read it again. Here’s what I wrote:
      
      “If it’s your assertion that the “clenched fist” was a prelude to her punching the innocent Trump supporter then I think you’re drawing a long bow; you wouldn’t leave a thumb sticking out when punching unless you want to break it.”
      
      Where EXACTLY did I “make up” something about you? I simply stated that if that WAS your assertion then I think you’re drawing a long bow.
      
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      November 16, 2020 2:45pm
      - rouppe
        
        By stating that I may be asserting something, then saying I’m drawing a long bow. It’s quite clear. A made up argument, not born of any quotable statement.
        
        But I’ll tell you what I was implying: that the anger is coming from the black woman. That from that image the Trump supporter is not doing anything that would warrant anger being directed towards her – other than being a Trump supporter. And that is the theme of all the other images.
        
        Violence is violence, and its just as wrong coming from a Biden or BLM supporter as anyone else
        
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        November 16, 2020 4:21pm
DRHILL

One positive way that National can start the rebuild of their party is to put candidates up for council elections.
Labour and the Greens do this, I don’t know why National just doesn’t have the interest in it.
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November 16, 2020 9:06am
- Gravelroad
  
  DR- In some ways this is sensible because so much of Council activity these days is spent enacting central Government rules, regulations, policy and Social engineering whims and fancies.
  An edict from on high is received by the Council CEO and staff are tasked with making it happen – whether it is needed or appropriate for their region or not. Just do it.
  Ratepayers have no say about it, they just have to pay for it.
  Labour/Greens electeds around a Council table are thrilled about all these new regs and lobby staff to go quicker and put up the rate take.
  Those with a more moderate, or even conservative voice, can easily be sidelined as they are on their own.
  Perhaps National Party people see themselves at a higher level than your local council, but the reality is that central Government has a large input into what goes on there.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:55am
- Frank the tank
  
  I’ve always thought the decision to avoid local council elections and put up surrogate parties such as C&R was a shortsighted and retarded strategy.
  
  As can be seen now we have arguably reached a point of no return. The political equivalent of letting the grass grow for a couple of years and then wondering why your lawnmower doesn’t work.
  
  Compare that to how the GOP works and why that is such a strong brand.
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:05am
- Sol Invictus
  
  This has been proposed to the National Party Board in times passed and rejected. Very short sighted. Not only is local government too important to leave as the near-exclusive preserve of the left, but in addition it provides training and morale boosting for volunteers, identifies future parliamentary candidates, helps with brand-building, policy formulation and fund-raising. A no-brainer really – unless you’re a National Party Board member.
  
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  November 16, 2020 3:38pm
  - hullkiwi
    
    Sol Invictus, let’s not beat around the Bush and point the fingers at the two Board members who have routinely blocked all such moves in recent years. So much so, that are the people responsible for 4 terms of Labour mayors in Auckland!
    
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    November 16, 2020 4:34pm
Maggie Pie

My partner just sent this – thort I’d share with the group 😀

“…..what could be cooler than pulling up at the petrol pump, to the wonderment of all, and getting out of your brand new Lambo”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lKuRuou-Qk
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November 16, 2020 9:14am
- C J Southern
  
  A “Lambo of colour” none-the-less.
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:29am
- RW Capitalist
  
  The unsaid question:
  How’d he get in, in the first place?
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:18am
  - C J Southern
    
    Gravity assist.
    
    I find it one hell of a lot easier getting into one of my recliner chairs than I find it is getting out these days.
    
    13 2
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    November 16, 2020 10:43am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      “Gravity assist.”
      and specially fitted negative pressure cabin accessory?
      
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      November 16, 2020 10:45am
      - C J Southern
        
        I’ve heard that all the negative pressure devices were bought by democrats to suck Biden ballots into the counting machines. It must be true; a losing republican told me so.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:48pm
Fletch

Why am I not surprised –

Tax filings reveal Biden cancer charity spent millions on salaries, zero on research

https://nypost.com/2020/11/14/biden-cancer-initiative-spent-millions-on-payroll-zero-on-research-report/
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November 16, 2020 9:38am
- Batman
  
  So it wasn’t a research charity but a support network?
  
  Righto…
  
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  November 16, 2020 9:59am
- Nickc2
  
  Must be the Democrat disease. The Clinton’s were/are at it too.
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:44am
- C J Southern
  
  I’m a bit slow but I think I’m starting to catch on. Basically you’re trying hard to convince us that Biden only has two faults – everything he says and everything he does. Whereas Trump is perfect in every way.
  
  Got it.
  
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  November 16, 2020 12:40pm
  - MCos
    
    You sound startled!
    You must be new here.
    
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    November 16, 2020 4:07pm
Maggie Pie

And you’d probably need to ask why all the top brass at Sky City has quit this morning.

Just saying…..
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November 16, 2020 9:38am
I remember when

Is there anything lass appealing than the sight of the captain of a rugby team imploring, practically begging the referee to give them a numerical advantage?
Is the constant discussion between the referee and the team captain’s really in the best interest of the game?
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November 16, 2020 9:41am
surfing

10 years ago I was paying $3500 a year in rates.

Now, I am paying just shy of $10k, with a likely increase of at least $1000 next year.

Despite this, my council now says they have a 2 billion dollar funding hole.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/tauranga-city-councils-2b-funding-hole-biggest-challenge-weve-had/FOOHG3QYBJ6J3WHKPE4BAN4PBI/

I think 20k a year in rates could be possible in another 5-10 years time.

If we do get smashed, I will move somewhere else. My entire suburb is affected, it’ll be interesting as others feel the same.
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November 16, 2020 9:41am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Ultimately it will bring down house prices, so not all bad huh?
  
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  November 16, 2020 11:40am
  - Nickc2
    
    Doubt it, it’s the value of your property that determines your rates. Local councils rely on rate increases in order to fund their vanity projects. Fixing infrastructure is out of the question where rate money is involved IMO.
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:04pm
  - Paulus
    
    When you look at the rates bill you will see that it is the Council fixed charges that continue to go up the percentage against a valuation is not a large part of the bill.
    It is staff costs and numbers that take a huge part of the rates bill.
    
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    November 16, 2020 1:41pm
    - surfing
      
      I just have difficulty with the amount my rates are increasing every year. House prices have increased for sure, but, so has every suburb.
      
      I’m already paying an extraordinary amount in rates, yet council say they are severely underfunded?
      
      Very worrying.
      
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      November 16, 2020 4:31pm
Fletch

It seems like Biden’s main Covid strategy is to force people to wear masks. And maybe lockdowns. That’s it.
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November 16, 2020 9:55am
- SB2
  
  Fletch , and Trump’s ?
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:16am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Warp speed vaccine….
    Remember when they all said (experts and non) “he doesn’t understand science, it will take at least 5 years to develop a vaccine…..weren’t they wrong.
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:47am
    - C J Southern
      
      As I recall the figure at the time was 18 months – not “5 years”.
      
      And it looks like they’ll be very close to spot on.
      
      https://theconversation.com/heres-why-the-who-says-a-coronavirus-vaccine-is-18-months-away-131213
      
      So again – nice attempt at trying to re-write history – but it’s still a fail.
      
      3 6
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      November 16, 2020 12:43pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        I’ll take your 1 and raise you 3.
        https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/life-style/health-fitness/health-news/coronavirus-vaccine-covid-19-spread-latest-news-update-controlling-coronavirus-spread-could-take-4-5-years-cant-depend-on-a-covid-19-vaccine-alone-says-who-scientist/photostory/75759992.cms
        
        https://www.advisory.com/daily-briefing/2020/10/12/coronavirus-vaccine
        
        https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/31/us/coronavirus-vaccine-timetable-concerns-experts-invs/index.html
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:21pm
      - Pharmachick
        
        Eh, you might want to hold your horses there… All we have is one press release from Pfizer (no hard data), although it is very promising. I remain unconvinced how they’re going to ship and roll it out at -70C. You might remember the rubella vaccine that used to be given to intermediate aged girls in the 80s by the public health nurse. Then everyone had to get re-jabbed in the 90s b/c the public health nurses had it sitting on the counter for hours and it was supposed to be kept cool….
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:40pm
      - C J Southern
        
        @RW Capitalist
        
        And I could sit here for a couple of hours and find a couple of hundred references to 18 months.
        
        But the bottom line is that you said – and I quote:
        
        “Remember when they all said”
        
        Well guess what – they didn’t ALL say it; it was SOME saying it. Most at the time were saying 18 months. Whenever people use phrases like “Remember when they all said” and “everybody knows” it tells me two things:
        
        1. That their position is weak and
        
        2. They know it.
        
        So again – it’s a fail from you.
        
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        November 16, 2020 2:54pm
      - RW Capitalist
        
        and CJ..@ 2:54pm
        Put up or shut up
        Vague statements don’t cut it….
        It was all over the news at the time …….they were accusing Trump of not using the science while claiming the science said 5 YEARS.
        
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        November 16, 2020 4:37pm
      - Engelbert Humperdink
        
        There is this vaccine; whether it works *effectively* as well as *safely* on a population-wide basis in both the short and medium terms is still not yet confirmed.
        
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        November 16, 2020 6:05pm
    - surfing
      
      Futurists were predicting a vaccine by mid-2021 based on the amount of resource being poured into covid research, improvements in computational technology and science in general, and the early prepping of factories to produce the vaccine.
      
      That seems to be reasonably accurate.
      
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      November 16, 2020 4:33pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Trump said we would have a vaccine within weeks.
    
    That was but a few weeks ago.
    
    And look we do.
    
    ROTFLOL
    
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    November 16, 2020 10:57am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Not yet… regardless of approval, supply side dynamics are very difficult w/r/t shipping and stability.
      
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      November 16, 2020 2:42pm
  - Fletch
    
    Trump got Operation Warp Speed going to fast track a vaccine. He mobilized the private sector, including enlisting car makers to make ventilators, others to make masks, test kits, etc. He partnered with pharmacies, including CVS and Walgreens, to distribute the vaccine and syringes. As far as I know, a response has never come together this quickly.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:01am
    - Pharmachick
      
      Agreed. Just keep an eye on the Pharmabros… they only promised to keep costs down “during the emergency”.
      
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      November 16, 2020 2:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s almost as if those might be effective measures against an infectious disease.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:18am
- C J Southern
  
  Would be one hell of a lot better than what’s happening now.
  
  They don’t need to “eliminate it over night”; they just have to get the R value <1 so infection rates keep trending downwards.
  
  One would like to think that people would be smart enough to take it upon themselves to do these things out of common sense, but apparantly a lot of people aren't very smart these days.
  
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  November 16, 2020 10:48am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    The surge in case numbers in the USA is mostly in central states that didn’t have big peaks previously and so are still working their way towards burnout. California has lower deaths now than any time in last 6 months, and New York deaths are 2% of their April peak.
    
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    November 16, 2020 11:47am
    - C J Southern
      
      The bottom line is that at present only 3.42% of the country has had it; there’s still PLENTY of potential for ALL areas to get yet another wave.
      
      The lowering death rates are due to a better understanding of how to treat it – not from any common sense from people in adhering to simple infection control protocols.
      
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      November 16, 2020 12:47pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        likely closer to 15% of US population has had it (250k dead, 0.5% IFR = 50million), weighted towards those who’s lifestyles make them most susceptible to infection and transmission, that in turn results in steadily lowering R0 as most easily infected are removed from pool of available hosts.
        
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        November 16, 2020 10:36pm
    - The Proper Ghandi
      
      How are case numbers surging when the majority of people are wearing muzzles in public?
      
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      November 16, 2020 1:46pm
  - RJ
    
    Yes the governors didn’t use their full powers with covid, although I see the governor of Washington has brought in stronger restrictions.
    
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    November 16, 2020 12:35pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      In a federalist system…the Governors have ALL the power.
      The President, under the constitution, can only offer.
      Trump offered NY a hospital ship and a tent hospital in central park.
      Cuomo accepted and then didn’t use any of it, or the ventilators and PPE supplied by Trump.
      So death toll, in NY is entirely Cuomo’s fault.
      
      7 3
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      November 16, 2020 2:27pm
ex-golfer

Remember this?:
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/295807/protest-leaders-our-tactics-were-safe

Where are the protests today?
Why aren’t AAAP blocking streets?
Why the silence?

Do they not realise “their” Govt has just signed the RCEP?
12 3
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November 16, 2020 10:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  AAAP? American Association Advancement Prostitutes blocking streets?
  
  3 6
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  November 16, 2020 12:21pm
- muppeth8r
  
  Cindy got her msm mates to keep it hush until I was too late.
  wonder why she didnt bring it up pre election?
  
  4 2
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  November 16, 2020 4:49pm
Maggie Pie

Random Impertinent Question:

If it weren’t for lesbians –
who would man the libraries?

Asking for a friend.
15 8
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November 16, 2020 10:08am
- SB2
  
  Silly things amuse silly people as the saying goes.
  
  6 20
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  November 16, 2020 10:18am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Quit with the personal attacks or you could find yourself on another holiday ya’ goat hugging moron.
    
    14 4
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    November 16, 2020 12:18pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      “Quite with the personal attacks…ya goat hugging moron”
      
      4 12
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      November 16, 2020 12:28pm
SB2

Reality and the cold facts appear to be dawning for Trump,

US election: Trump says Biden won but again refuses to concede

Donald Trump has insisted he is not conceding the US election, despite seemingly acknowledging for the first time that Democrat Joe Biden won.

“He won because the Election was Rigged,” the Republican president wrote on Twitter, repeating unsubstantiated claims of election fraud.

About an hour later he said he was not conceding the 3 November vote.

He has launched a slew of lawsuits in key states, but has not provided any evidence to back his claims of fraud.

All the lawsuits have so far been unsuccessful.

On Friday, election officials said the vote was the “most secure in American history” and there was “no evidence that any voting system deleted or lost votes, changed votes or was in any way compromised…”.

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54952098
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November 16, 2020 10:15am
- Critical Thinker
  
  “Reality and the cold facts appear to be dawning for Trump”
  
  Trump states on Twitter once again that the “Election was Rigged” for the corrupt Joe Biden to win.
  
  The TDS fake news enemy of the people media then goes absolutely full retard to twist President Trumps words into saying that he is now conceding…
  
  In what deranged world could you garner a concession from that statement? ?
  
  https://youtu.be/1Y3FzVQi-R8?t=36
  
  10 4
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  November 16, 2020 10:35am
  - Batman
    
    “he won”
    
    End of.
    
    5 14
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    November 16, 2020 12:03pm
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    I have found the perfect metaphor for this election and how it will ultimately play out:
    
    https://twitter.com/JFNYC1/status/1328028065809780737
    
    1 2
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    November 16, 2020 2:13pm
    - curry4me
      
      The Proper Ghandi: Priceless. For everything else, there are credit cards.
      
      1 0
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      November 16, 2020 7:29pm
  - surfing
    
    Acknowledging Joe Biden won is not the same as conceding when it comes to Donald Trump.
    
    You are part of the problem when it comes to raging.
    
    Joe Biden winning is not fake news, get over it.
    
    3 0
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    November 16, 2020 4:36pm
- C J Southern
  
  Agreed.
  
  They have had 2 wins in the courts, but it hasn’t resulted in any state flips, additional votes, or documented any fraud.
  
  Unfortunately for Trump & his supporters the courts require something more than Tweets for evidence.
  
  6 11
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  November 16, 2020 10:51am
  - dcrane
    
    Unfortunately for Trump and his supporters a huge fraction of “news” coverage is now controlled by social media and search titans like Google, Facebook, and Twitter, so they were able to throttle bad coverage of Biden while allowing all of the anti-Trump coverage to thrive.
    
    If the people ever want to elect someone not approved of by the war profiteers and banksters, they’re gonna have to wrangle this power back from Silicon Valley.
    
    8 2
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    November 16, 2020 12:54pm
    - surfing
      
      And Trump certainly provides plenty of ammunition.
      
      A stand-up comic recently complained that he could not make Trump jokes, because Trump was so ridiculous that it was impossible to exaggerate him further.
      
      2 1
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      November 16, 2020 4:38pm
- Fletch
  
  It was just a turn of phrase. You can say someone won by cheating but that doesn’t mean you give up your fight.
  
  10 3
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  November 16, 2020 10:52am
- freethinker
  
  The Chairman of the Electoral Commission has publicly said there is evidence of voter fraud and an investigation will commence. No result is confirmed/final until the Commission has certified it.
  
  9 4
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  November 16, 2020 11:54am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The BBC these days are one of the least citeable sources of fact. They won’t even admit to global warming.
  
  4 7
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  November 16, 2020 12:19pm
alloytoo

double entendre, very good.
6 2
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November 16, 2020 10:17am
Master Mariner

RCEP, Anything of substance in local media.?

Here whats recorded locally in Singapore.

https://www.todayonline.com/singapore/explainer-what-rcep-trade-deal-and-how-will-it-benefit-singapore.
This is what stands out to me at least from above,

The signing of the RCEP means that China, which has tussled with the US for economic superiority in the region, now has greater influence in the rules of trade here.

China has more power and control
No provisions on enviromental and labour standards.
5 x bigger than CPTPP GDP wise.

I’m picking it allows China to make its own rules.
Really that was what TPP originally was all about, Who made the rules in Asia / Pacific region ?
Right?
Think it needs to be followed closely.
17 0
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November 16, 2020 10:51am
- greybeard
  
  You are right to be worried.
  As far as I am concerned anything which Jacinda Ardern promotes, represents or signs is dodgy.
  Let us never forget that she is a socialist before all else, and is therefore aligned with China politically.
  Patriotism, or allegiance to New Zealand, is not on her radar.
  
  5 3
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  November 16, 2020 4:11pm
  - RJ
    
    Let us not forget this government has been in power for three years so the vast majority of this free trade was worked on by the Key and English governments
    
    4 0
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    November 16, 2020 5:37pm
    - GJM
      
      That would be “Labour Lite”. John Key was the best Labour prime Minister that we have ever had. There was no real difference between the Clark and Key governments.
      
      0 0
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      November 17, 2020 9:10am
Inandout

Bill O’Rielly predicts this and it linked to Twitter so enter at your own risk.
https://twitter.com/newsmax/status/1328085377463291907?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet
5 2
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November 16, 2020 11:38am
- RJ
  
  I was reading yesterday that AT&T are looking at selling CNN
  
  6 1
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  November 16, 2020 12:28pm
Surely Knott

The world and NZ media has reported that a whistleblower has claimed mass forced hysterectomies and sterilization by a US gynaecologist known as the Uterus Collector. Democrats and the media have jumped on it as another example of Trump and his cruel practices to migrants at the border.
The Herald ran shocking headlines “‘Uterus collector’: Claims of forced sterilisation at US detention centre” But further in the article called them “lightly-substantiated claims” . And said “follow-up news conference Tuesday in Atlanta provided little information to substantiate the claims. Lawyers for the nurse, Dawn Wooten, refused to release her full statement that she made to the Department of Homeland Security’s Inspector General.”

A fact check on Snopes says. “The AP’s (associated press’s) review did NOT find evidence of mass hysterectomies as alleged in a widely shared complaint filed by a nurse at the detention center.” – Yet this claim has been made across all western media including the BBC. Snope said,” a lawyer who helped file the complaint said she never spoke to any women who had hysterectomies. Priyanka Bhatt, staff attorney at the advocacy group Project South, told The Washington Post that she included the hysterectomy allegations because she wanted to trigger an investigation to determine if they were true.”
The Snopes gives details of the claimants: Person 1: a woman who had surgery for her ovarian cysts to be removed and later asked for her medical records of which she got 100 pages but doesn’t believe she got the notes from the day of the actual surgery so “she’s still not sure what procedure she got”. Um that is not evidence of an unwanted hysterectomy.

Or example two, “The AP also reviewed records for a woman who was given a hysterectomy. She reported irregular bleeding and was taken to see Amin (the doctor) for a D&C. A lab study of the tissue found signs of early cancer, called carcinoma. Amin’s notes indicate the woman agreed 11 days later to the hysterectomy. Free, who spoke to the woman, said she felt pressured by Amin and “didn’t have the opportunity to say no” or speak to her family before the procedure. – Again this is not an example of mass sterilization. The woman agreed to the hysterectomy and had cancer.

Case 4: Records reviewed by the AP show one woman was given a psychiatric evaluation the same day she refused to undergo a surgical procedure known as dilation and curettage. Commonly known as a D&C, it removes tissue from the uterus and can be used as a treatment for excessive bleeding. A note written on letterhead from Amin’s office said the woman was concerned. According to a written summary of her psychiatric evaluation, the woman said, “I am nervous about my upcoming procedure.” The summary says she denied needing mental health care and added: “I am worried because I saw someone else after they had surgery and what I saw scared me.” Um ok. That is too vague to be of any use. Looks like she didn’t even have surgery but she saw something unnamed that scared her.

In summary we are lead to believe that right wing papers are garbage and what we read on NZ Herald and BBC is superior quality fact checked articles by real journalists. They have published this information knowing that it was “lightly substantiated”. Associated Press has done the review and says the claims don’t stack up. Facts don’t seem to be necessary when you have a story as juicy as Trump, Migrants, Sterilization, Uterus Collectors, USA.

https://www.snopes.com/ap/2020/09/18/more-migrant-women-say-they-didnt-ok-surgery/
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/uterus-collector-claims-of-forced-sterilisation-at-us-detention-centre/IJLRP3NLU6ERXKL42ZQ5KXSIDU/
5 2
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November 16, 2020 12:15pm
Maggie Pie

ZB reporting that China have ‘just detected traces of Corona Virus on New Zealand’ meat packaging.

I hope it was nothing I said 🙁
12 4
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November 16, 2020 12:36pm
- Inandout
  
  Well Maggie, they certainly don’t want it to boomerang do they?
  
  6 3
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  November 16, 2020 1:02pm
- RJ
  
  I guess they didn’t like the foreign minister commenting on Hong Kong and needed an excuse to punish New Zealand and suspend some imports ?
  
  10 2
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  November 16, 2020 1:10pm
- cmm
  
  The big question is “how much is a trace?”.
  
  A virus is a teeny tiny thing. It probably takes many million of the little sods to make you sick.
  
  Everyone in NZ has encountered at least one virus – probably tens of thousands.
  
  Frozen cold packaging preserves them almost forever.
  
  So the question is: how sensitive are the tests they are using? If they are too sensitive then they are meaningless.
  
  11 2
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  November 16, 2020 1:12pm
- alloytoo
  
  I suspect China are playing silly buggars
  
  10 2
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  November 16, 2020 1:19pm
- Ruahine
  
  Yeh!. China playing the long game and puppet Ardern dancing to their tune.
  
  12 1
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  November 16, 2020 2:10pm
  - muppeth8r
    
    well shes known to love doin lil dances over china virus
    
    6 2
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    November 16, 2020 4:55pm
I remember when

Maggie Wasselieff 9.59am
The reason I mentioned opening/closing windows with Rheumatic Fever was by way of wondering if it is an underrated factor.
Many families of Pacific families often have family from the islands visit them. Are they more likely to have windows closed more often because of less tolerance of cold weather.
Does this mean infectious diseases germinate more quickly?
4 2
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November 16, 2020 1:11pm
- cmm
  
  Well of course keeping windows shut will cause problems. If it didn’t then crowded living conditions would not be a factor. Crowded living conditions only cause problems due to more people breathing the same air (and smoke if they’re smokers) thus spreading the lurgies around faster.
  
  My Polynesian neighbours have the windows closed and the heat pump running even if it is 20 degrees. I know that’s a sample of 1, but possibly indicative.
  
  4 2
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  November 16, 2020 5:02pm
Sigmund Freud

Coronavirus is a political disease!

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/resizer/3UOhkdWw09v4AC88v1XCjUiYMc0=/1440×900/smart/filters:quality(70)/cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/CKJU2OUPZVGFPUSIAA25VCQQ7A.jpg
5 1
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November 16, 2020 1:24pm
surfing

Spacex dragon just launched perfectly, with the used main engine component landing vertically on a ship floating in the middle of the ocean. The pinnacle of mankinds ingenuity and aspiration.

Checked nzherald, main breaking news story is….

“‘Mayhem’: Kiwi Lion King star Nick Afoa fired from West End show”

WTF? No mention of spacex at all.

Kiwis are stupid.
11 2
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November 16, 2020 1:49pm
- Batman
  
  Jamie Morton will be typing up his piece on it as we type…
  
  2 5
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  November 16, 2020 2:37pm
- RJ
  
  Yes and you could watch the launch live on nzherald.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/manned-spacex-mission-countdown-on-musk-sidelined-with-virus/HKEDD4EXKI5T4BG2KMQJJL76FM/
  
  3 0
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  November 16, 2020 2:46pm
UrbanNeocolonialist

“One quick question, only answer if you have worked in auditing/stats/fraud/investigations/or other data analysis type fields. In your entire career, have you ever seen a case that threw up this many flags that DID NOT turn out to be fraud?”
https://monsterhunternation.com/2020/11/12/i-asked-one-simple-question-to-people-who-work-with-fraud/

Interesting responses from many pros. The most clear point from them being that you should expect errors and anomalies to occur, but when they all favor one side air raid sirens should be going off.
6 3
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November 16, 2020 1:54pm
- fernglas
  
  It’s a non-question, because the author failed to specify any of the so-called flags. It is then left purely to the subjective opinion of the responder as to what may or may not be a flag. No investigator worth their salt should be prepared to give an opinion on a case with no facts. I have yet to see any evidence that the anomalies and errors favour one side at the expense of the other, apart perhaps from the fact that mail-in ballots are more likely to be for Biden than Trump. The assumption that they all favour Biden is nothing more than that, an assumption.
  
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  November 16, 2020 4:03pm
Nickc2

If Churchill had Facebook and the MSM to deal with.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2020/11/if-churchill-had-facebook-mainstream-media-to-deal-with.html
5 1
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November 16, 2020 2:26pm
Fletch

Overheard today in The Warehouse: mother to little girl, “Ooo, while we’re here, we need to get a water pistol for the cat. Just a little one, not a big one for the general household…” ?
7 1
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November 16, 2020 3:12pm
- greybeard
  
  When our cat asked for a water pistol it wanted a big one.
  
  6 1
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  November 16, 2020 4:46pm
- lifesgood
  
  Very effective for keeping cats out of the veggie patch..a quick squirt doesn’t hurt them but they don’t like it.
  
  3 2
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  November 16, 2020 4:58pm
lifesgood

I got shouted at by an Auckland bus driver today because I wasn’t wearing a mask. I told him it wasn’t yet mandatory and he was being paranoid. He didn’t say a word to the next 5 passengers who got on without masks. When it becomes mandatory I will stop using the bus.
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November 16, 2020 3:28pm
- surfing
  
  Good job he shouted at you, hope he kicked you off the bus too.
  
  What’s the big deal? Just wear it.
  
  I suppose you are the kind of person who doesn’t hold the door open for people behind you too.
  
  Oh well, I suppose you can go on your self righteous twitter rage now.
  
  6 9
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  November 16, 2020 4:42pm
  - lifesgood
    
    You don’t know my health problems, do you? So I suggest you calm down. He had no right to shout at me and yes it is a big deal. As I say, once it is mandatory I won’t take public transport… I will be looking out for others.
    
    7 4
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    November 16, 2020 4:56pm
  - muppeth8r
    
    safe to put you down on the “scared sheeple” list then.
    
    if masks work our miq staff wouldnt be getting sick and im pretty sure theyll be using better masks then bobs bandana and jims teatowel.
    
    6 6
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    November 16, 2020 5:04pm
    - RJ
      
      Perhaps you should read this article
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300158011/covid19-nurses-union-says-miq-staff-will-be-forced-to-refuse-work-over-inaction
      
      1 2
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      November 16, 2020 6:57pm
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Masks are cough splatter traps. They won’t stop you catching the airborne virus (as it will get in through the mucous membranes of your eyes).
  
  7 3
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  November 16, 2020 4:52pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And as well as facemasks remember to wash
  
  5 2
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  November 16, 2020 5:08pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    woopsie – hit the ‘Post Comment’ button too soon.
    
    Should have said …….your hands
    
    5 2
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    November 16, 2020 5:12pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDvjGDwYrqk

Erdoğan is either sacking people or forcing them to resign in order to scapegoat others for his own blunders. And Turkeys economy is taking a bath due to his policies. So, he blames others.
7 2
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November 16, 2020 4:28pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ZW2lTZaVJQ

How can Prime Minster have presided over a Number ten machine that became paralysed by in-fighting to the point that Carrie Symonds was reportedly bombarding him with texts and Whatsapp messages on her views on government policy at the rate of 25 an hour? While the Vote Leave Brexiteer Boys were wandering around Westminster briefing against her calling her ‘Princess Nut Nut’?
3 2
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November 16, 2020 4:28pm
RJ

Judge rules California Gov. Newsom violated Constitution with election order

“Executive Order N-67-20 issued by the Governor on June 3, 2020 is void as an unconstitutional exercise of legislative power and shall be of no further force or effect,” the ruling states.

https://justthenews.com/government/courts-law/judges-ruling-says-california-gov-newsom-executive-order-void
1 2
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November 16, 2020 7:46pm
RJ

Attorney Sidney Powell, of President Trump’s legal team, tells ‘Sunday Morning Futures’ that ‘the evidence is coming in so fast’ she ‘can’t even process it all.’

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQpqsj3tcMU&feature=emb_logo
1 2
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November 16, 2020 7:59pm
Fletch

From VICE –

New Zealand Police Introduce Hijab to their Official Uniform

https://www.vice.com/en/article/7k9bx9/new-zealand-police-introduce-hijab-to-their-official-uniform
1 2
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November 16, 2020 8:38pm

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