General Debate 17 November 2020

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Maggie Pie

‘The Hosk’ has got Dolly Parton coming on soon! Should be worth a listen.
My friend Jo from tennis went on the Dolly Parton Diet.
It really made Jo lean, Jo lean, Jo Lean. Jo Lean
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November 17, 2020 8:05am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  My favourite Dolly Parton quote:
  
  “Some people think I’m a dumb blonde. That doesn’t bother me because I know I’m not dumb, and I also know I’m not blonde.”
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:07am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    If I can be as rich as her…can I please be that kind of dumb?
    If she is dumb, then she is the smartest dumb person I have heard of.
    
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    November 17, 2020 8:11am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      “It takes a lot of money to look this cheap”
      
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      November 17, 2020 7:17pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Apparantly she once said that “not even my husband gets to see me without my wig on”.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:03am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Other than her face and hands, did you know that Dolly has covered her body in tattoos? FACT.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:55am
  - pdm
    
    Her chest gave them a bit of room to move.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:06am
- Biscuit
  
  G-r-o-a-n, Maggie!
  
  Move your head closer down to my foot so I might give you an appropriate pat or two!
  
  (Imagine Dolly playing Tennis, by the way. The ball-persons – hell, even the folk in the first five rows in the stands – would be in grave danger of copping serious Boob Whiplash!)
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:58am
- Fletch
  
  I think I used to have an album of hers – Dolly Parton’s Greatest Tits.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:37am
- Raphael
  
  I’m not a huge fan of Dolly Parton’s music (no real problems with it, just not the type music I normally listen to)
  
  But I really like the colab she did with For King and Country (who do happen to be one of my favourite bands): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFiyEFmIXvA
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:07am
- C J Southern
  
  She’s an exceptional song writer. One of my favourites is this rare and mostly unknown one – sung here by the incredible Allison Young (the ONLY person I support on Patreon to date):
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkjGokRY1ik
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:07am
burt

Who’d have possibly seen this coming !

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/123408446/whats-reasonable-tenant-faces-50wk-jump-as-rents-soar
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November 17, 2020 8:05am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Like you, I’ll say it….”I told ya so”
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:09am
- Catgurl13
  
  Before running to the media Mereana should have done her research and realised she will still be paying one of the cheapest rents in that area even after her increase.Unfortunately she has also put herself out there as a bit if a thick,moaning tenant that LLs will want to steer clear of.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:20am
- artemisia
  
  Oh no, landlords running a business not a charity? How very dare they.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:29am
- JackRabbit
  
  Who would have thought that interference in the economy and law affecting rental properties, investment in them, and laws affecting landlords and tenants, would raise rents?
  
  And you don’t need a $4M Shaun Hendy modelling project to work that one out. You just need high school economics and about 2 minutes of thinking.
  
  The tenants will blame the landlords, which will force more landlords to sell up. Meanwhile, the government with selective economics amnesia, will continue on with meddling in the economy.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:40am
  - C J Southern
    
    “and about 2 minutes of thinking”
    
    I think I’ve found the problem (excuse the pun).
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:16am
- artemisia
  
  Westpac economist predicting a wealth tax of some sort as “social pressures force Government to move on growing inequality between homeowners and renters”.
  
  Let’s see some analysis of wealth by age and debt level. It has been pointed out that the Oxfam global wealth report pops students graduating from US ivy league colleges are in the very bottom wealth global wealth band.
  
  Maybe also some analysis of media coverage of those shouting “social pressure” compared to households quietly looking out for their own futures. Hint – one of these is not like the other.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/300160055/social-pressure-from-renters-may-force-govt-to-implement-wealth-tax-westpac
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:41am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Seriously, how stupid are these people?
    There are three main passive investments: Shares, Rental Properties and Interest.
    A wealth tax will result in cash flow issues so with low interest rates and uncertain dividends, the only real investment decision that covers the cash flow issues is residential rental properties.
    
    Therefore, it will increase both the price of housing and the cost of rent. Typically narrow minded idiots making everything worse.
    
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    November 17, 2020 8:48am
  - Nick R
    
    Is this the same Westpac that predicted house prices would fall this year? Or was that a different Westpac?
    
    Maybe we should take their predictions with a pinch or two of salt.
    
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    November 17, 2020 8:51am
    - artemisia
      
      Believe it was the economists who predicted 5 of the last 2 recessions.
      
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      November 17, 2020 12:20pm
      - Libertarians are right
        
        Astrology was invented so Economists would feel better about themselves.
        
        Economics is a social science yet no economists have any understanding of human nature/psychology. They only understand half of their chosen field and then blame “randomness” etc on why they are always wrong.
        
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        November 17, 2020 1:08pm
- rouppe
  
  I have a 3 bedroom house that is currently rented at $420 a week. The bathroom needs work but doing thats work will take it out of service for some weeks.
  
  Notwithstanding that the lower quartile rent in the area is $570.
  
  They are fabulous tenants. But they are getting a steal…
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:48am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    rouppe, I have two rentals left. One in New Plymouth, the other in Rotorua. Im going to be selling the Rotorua one in the next 6 months or so, I want out of the game, too many risks that I cannot mitigate against, particularly around what this government will do.
    
    The NP one is a 4 bed property, good street, two big lounges, good sized flat and fenced section. The tenants I’ve had in there have been brilliant, been there for 2 years, leaving in January. Its currently getting $550PW, and I havent bothered changing that since my current tenants moved in. I’m hanging on to this one for the moment, as I think the NP market still has some way to go. And for the next tenants, they will be paying an extra $75 a week. Courtesy of the last and current government.
    
    Thanks Grant R, you just upped my yield.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:23am
- Surely Knott
  
  Moreana Mereana seems to be the Labour party/media spokesperson on housing issues. She was in the paper in 2017, saying that she wanted to buy on the North Shore but couldn’t afford it. But she was hopeful for Labour’s new Maori Housing Policy.
  
  “On Sunday, Labour Maori development spokesman and Te Tai Tokerau MP Kelvin Davis said the policy, which hinged on the ability to build on multi-titled Maori land, would provide homes for more than 20,000 Maori whanau.
  
  It would also help more than 2500 Maori on the social housing list, Davis said.”
  
  How are those houses coming along? Three years later why did Moreana get one of these houses?
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/95303669/labour-hopes-new-housing-policy-will-get-more-maori-into-homes
  
  https://www.teaomaori.news/hope-potential-maori-homeowners
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:57am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Tribal land ownership and individual titles is a sore wherever it occurs. It caused real problems in Fiji.
    
    The problem seems solved in NZ with the PM, Police and activists deciding to abandon the Land Titles Registry for the former practice of title by right of might. Utu needs to be restored too so those aggrieved can forcefully retake their former land holding as they see fit. The Police having dropped out cannot rightfully drop back in again in that situation. There will be casualties.
    
    Are there any valid enforceable land titles now in NZ.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:25am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      The thing about utu is it will develop characters like – well, like, Bruno Lawrence’s character in the movie ‘Utu’. Can you say backlash? I’m sure you can.
      
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      November 17, 2020 10:50am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I expect that Grant Robertson will make some sort of veiled threat to landlords saying something like we ‘will be looking closely at rent increases to ensure they are not excessive’.
  Labour try to help the people renting the houses by piling additional costs on to the landlords and only allowing landlord to increase rent once a year, and then surprise, surprise, those people they try to help are worse off…..but the irony is, the tenants will probably still blame the landlords and still vote for Jacinda!
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:07am
  - artemisia
    
    But but but – warm and dry rentals with security of tenure thanks to government decree. Gets out calculator to work out the next rent increase, not forgetting to factor in the much bigger risk factor.
    
    What? Government and tenants didn’t realise who would be paying? Bigly.
    
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    November 17, 2020 1:05pm
- C J Southern
  
  They got what they voted for.
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:17am
muppeth8r

the creeping covid rules… the govt has continualy tweaked with them so how long before level 1 will be level 2.5 and level 2 will be level 4?
More importantly how long before cindy needs to feel the rush of power and control again and locks us down for the sniffles.
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November 17, 2020 8:06am
- JackRabbit
  
  “Word on the street” from a mate, is late November, early December. And NZ public will be blamed for not using the app, and not adhering to the rules.
  
  Of course we know the real issues of spread have been poor processes with MIQ, but the inept Govt will blame the public. This could be compared to Basil Fawlty blaming the dining guests for the rat in the dining room.
  
  And of course no-one is dying from Covid-19, just all the other health and mental issues caused by the Govt’s incorrect response to Covid-19.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:48am
  - RdM
    
    When Christmas was cancelled: a lesson from history
    
    https://reaction.life/when-christmas-was-cancelled-a-lesson-from-history/
    
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    November 17, 2020 7:43pm
- Scott
  
  Exactly right. Our man of the people, Ashley Bloomfield, was on the radio this morning saying how they were thinking about shutting Auckland down because of the one case.
  
  We are run by covid extremists for whom no covid measure is too extreme.
  This virus is just not a particular threat to young people and children. It is a threat to those over 70.
  There is no need to lock everyone down for a virus that is not a particular threat to the majority of people.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:13am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    No lock down demonstrates lack of power. Can’t deny petty officials power. Can’t implement the hidden UN 2030 takeover policy without teaching us all to accept and love control. Never mind the casualties.
    Be kind to your cat & dog never mind rogue controllers.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:29am
  - hullkiwi
    
    On a T Shirt seen at the weekend. “COVID is fake politics”
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:30am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Which would be the equivalent of a nationwide ban on the selling of alcohol because one person got drunk on the Auckland waterfront.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:45am
    - lifesgood
      
      Don’t give the b*****ds ideas!
      
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      November 17, 2020 10:17am
  - MCos
    
    If the doctors ran the country we’d still be at level 4 because they don’t have to take into account the economic cost, the government’s monetary outlay and some other things.
    The politicians listen to the doctors, the businesses, have a guess at what the people will put up with, and so on and then make the call.
    In some countries they get it right and others they don’t.
    I happen to think that because, for the most part, we can wander the streets without fear of catching the bug, things have thus far worked out well here.
    Some people might think otherwise and would have preferred the Swedish or UK or US approach.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:46am
    - JackRabbit
      
      So true.
      
      Comparing NZ to the USA or the UK is like comparing free range organic chickens to battery caged chickens.
      
      A great percentage of Americans live in high rise apartments, where like office buildings, the air quality is poor. Sick building syndrome affects apartment buildings as equally as it does office buildings.
      
      Whereas we in NZ, for the most part, live in individual dwellings without centralised ventilation or shared internal air spaces. Centralised ventilation or shared internal air spaces, is also the cause of the MIQ Covid-19 re-infections. So long as Lloyd Christmas and Harry Dunne are in charge of MIQ and border control, don’t expect re-infections to cease.
      
      Many travel to work on the subways, or buses, packed in like sardines in a can, whereas we are travel in our own vehicles. Stopping Covid-19 spread, is to date, the best reason why light rail should be mothballed forever.
      
      Applying lockdown rules to NZ that mirror lockdowns in the USA or UK would be like nationally banning all sales of chickens and eggs without differentiation between those that are free range and those that are raised in cramped cages and feed hormone laced food.
      
      Same stupidity exists with the plastic bag ban. China and India have a problem with plastic supermarket bags, but NZ does not, but ban them in NZ anyway.
      
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      November 17, 2020 10:13am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      MCos: I’m a doctor and I approve this message.
      
      We advocate for our patients, we have no more inherent economic nous than the next person.
      
      Well, unless the next person is Ardern. Then we have an order of magnitude more economic nous than her, because we have to run our practice as a business that can stay in business to look after patients without borrowing gazillions that the next generation will have to pay back.
      
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      November 17, 2020 10:53am
  - Billy Collins
    
    They are in too deep to turn back, that’s all.
    
    They went all in for elimination. If they have just one single outbreak that gets out of control, then the last two lockdowns and the border restrictions were for nothing and they should have never gone with elimination in the first place.
    
    So, if they are going with elimination, they have to be super sure of it, and that means they must treat 1 case as if it could potentially lead to uncontrolled spread.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:59am
krazykiwi

The Davos Club’s vision for your 2030. From the World Economic Forum itself: Welcome to 2030. I own nothing, have no privacy, and life has never been better
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November 17, 2020 8:06am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Correction…”the delusion of life has never been better”…..The analogue version of the Matrix.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:08am
- sooty
  
  Said “Karen” and “Ken”!
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:10am
- Simon
  
  Yep junk climate change science didnt work they have moved onto junk Wuhan sniffles science.
  
  The Great Reset using the fake pandemic.
  
  “I own nothing” The plebs will own nothing but someone has to own and control property. Thats the Reset.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:23am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The holocaust of the nerds is going to make the Nazi one look like a Sunday School picnic.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:31am
- JackRabbit
  
  Davos Club 2033
  
  “Ahem, all future Davos Club meetings and activities are now cancelled.
  
  We have worked out that all the jet fuel used by delegates flying to each forum and international air travel by politicians are the major cause of man-made climate change.
  
  Effective immediate, we have banned all international air travel for all Governments and Govt departments around the world. The savings in fuel will add 2567 years to the current supplies of fossil fuels.
  
  We have worked out that the cost of the expensive champagne, canapes, salmon and caviar, at the Davos forum, correctly deployed, would have eliminated child poverty.
  
  Al Gore is serving life for his fictional work “An inconvenient truth”, which netted him billions with the Carbon Trading Scheme. Al Gore was arrested from his beach front property last year, and the power turned off in his mansion, the power usage of which, could have powered several small towns.”
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:27am
- Bill Felt
  
  I have been looking at this “Great Reset” over the last few days. This is really scary stuff as it seems to have the buy-in from a lot of people (eg. Ardern).
  
  But it is just communism in another guise. And we all know how it will end!
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:28am
  - krazykiwi
    
    NZers need to wake up here. We are sleepwalking towards servitude to an cabal of quasi-political and technocratic elite. The speed of our sleepwalking may be debatable, but one needs ones feet planted firmly in the air to believe it isn’t happening.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:24am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    It’s a lot more than that. I see a lot of ultra wealthy and powerful, neobarons, having to deal with an unprofitable population of unneeded workers.
    
    Communists go along with it as they feel everything will be sweetness and light as as they can feed all on flour and water and house them in tents. Only they are important to keep order and if a few peasants need to be removed because their hard working superior needs a dacha at Lake Taupo that can be arranged. Meanwhile the barons quietly tie them down and move into the dacha’s instead. More money wins. Can’t have robots being taxed.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:43am
- emmess
  
  Let’s look at the other side of the coin then.
  Who will own everything?
  Who will be intruding into lives?
  Who will be constantly propagandising to us to be happy with our lot in life?
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:31am
- Deagle
  
  Well that’s all well and good for her to give up her space and privacy, but would she give up her childrens privacy like that too? oh wait…
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:38am
- Critical Thinker
  
  I wonder how many Kiwi’s actually know about the fact that our former president of the International Union of Socialist Youth Prime Minister Ardern, is also fully on board with the WEF nightmarish dystopian vision for our future:
  ??
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uE6MwzEhR7k
  
  https://youtu.be/aCpgPFylXn0?t=509
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:32am
- Billy Collins
  
  Don’t they get it?
  
  Nothing is free. Someone is paying.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:08am
RW Capitalist

On the AMshow, the guy heading up the tourism expo in Wgtn, says they are discussing whether the govt. should hand out $300 gift cards to hand out to everyone, to spend on tourism.
No thought as to where the $1.5bill will come from.
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November 17, 2020 8:06am
- krazykiwi
  
  It will come from the looting of private wealth from future generations. As will the other billions conjured up by Ardern and Robo
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:44am
SpencerArnold

So, Renters United wants rent increases capped to inflation. Only if you fix my landlord costs to inflation as well. And the government arbitrarily fixing costs, all sounds a bit… “muldoonist”.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/123408446/whats-reasonable-tenant-faces-50wk-jump-as-rents-soar
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November 17, 2020 8:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Muldoon had need. Labour had set a wage/price spiral on its upward path and that had to be stopped. The NZ dollar was not floating at that time so we had the problem of balancing our import needs with what we created here and exported.
  Courts were making wage orders, creating demand, and we came close to the ugly situation of not being able to import food. Some “friendly” Arabs wanted to change their lifestyle and put up the prices of oil by 3 times. Muldoon had to to navigate all that and succeeded. It wasn’t pleasant.
  
  Prices can get away in the hands of a spending govt. Once started are almost impossible to stop. It’s not kind to the people to let prices get out of control. Ministers of Finance don’t usually come out of uni cafes and understand those matters. Even being generous may be too much. The COVID billions of waste have fed a likely monster which Labour will be powerless to tame.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:59am
  - Bob
    
    Cullen, the historian will probably soon write an article for the ‘Horrid’ on this union generated problem that confronted Muldoon
    
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    November 17, 2020 12:35pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I hope he does.
      
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      November 17, 2020 1:43pm
Nukuleka

I have always been impressed by the alacrity with which MPs have replied to various emails I have sent them over the years. My electorate MPs Tim Barnett, Nikki Wagner and more recently Poto Williams have all been impressive in their responses. I have even received same day responses for Gerry Brownlee and Simon Bridges (with Simon it was almost like having a one on one personal connection- very impressive indeed).

Disappointing, then, to report that David Seymour is a big fail. No response, not even a pro forma acknowledgement, to my email congratulating him on ACT’s election performance and wishing him well for the future parliament. I know such folk are busy people and receive huge amounts of correspondence but if Simon as leader of the Opposition was on top of things I think I can expect that lesser MPs will also be.

Maybe David doesn’t have the time for the little people. I had high hopes for him standing up to the powerfully horrendous pc woke forces that challenge free speech and democracy in out country. Maybe I am wrong.
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November 17, 2020 8:12am
- Libertarians are right
  
  He might be very busy organising 9 inexperienced MPs etc. He’s probably feeling a little bit overwhelmed right now and a little bit of patience/forgiving isn’t unreasonable.
  He’ll be back on top of it all soon I expect but right now his priority is probably ensuring his 9 MPs are all set up (including staff etc).
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:52am
- Harriet
  
  “……..I have always been impressed by the alacrity with which MPs have replied to various emails I have sent them over the years…..Disappointing, then, to report that David Seymour is a big fail. No response……”
  
  It’s a well known fact here in Australia that if you put ‘pen to paper’ MP’s do take you seriously. You are going to the trouble.
  Replying to emails is often just PR, they’re just going to as much trouble, far less than pen to paper.
  The old adage – you get what you pay for.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  David Seymour is not on par with Simon Bridges although he is far superior to anyone in the Labour and Grrrn offerings.
  The media allowed DS a platform and deliberately denied National. That split the middle-right vote and I suspect was the cause of our electoral calamity. A neatly executed trick.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:05am
  - Isobar
    
    Why is it always other peoples fault? ‘The media’ directed people to vote everyone but National.
    
    For being a party whose supporters are supposedly believers in personal responsibility, your comment is actually laughable.
    
    Why can it not be people with sense saw the absolute state of the National party and what a joke they were, then saw a party actually presenting sensible policies, with good ideas and they decided to vote for them?
    
    Believe it or not its actually possibly to support a party on policy rather than just simply because of it’s branding and some very smart people decided that National did nothing for them this time around.
    
    This is not because of some media brainwashing thing, it is simply that Act had a good game this election, National didnt. End result.
    
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    November 17, 2020 1:09pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  I emailed Simon Bridges earlier in the year about an issue, and was a little stunned to receive both an acknowledgment from him sent from his iPhone within an hour, and later a full response. Top marks.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:41am
  - hilaryt
    
    Me too.
    
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    November 17, 2020 3:10pm
Raphael

So in the midst of massive upheaval in Europe with more looming shutdowns, Deutsche Bank is pushing for a 5% tax on staff that work from home.
To be paid by the business if they require the staff member to work from home, and payable by the staff member if they choose to work from home.

https://www.theregister.com/2020/11/13/working_from_home_tax_deutsche_bank/

“Quite simply, our economic system is not set up to cope with people who can disconnect themselves from face-to-face society,” the bank’s “Macro strategist” Luke Templeman wrote [PDF]. He therefore suggested that those who continue to work from home during or after the pandemic indirectly fund efforts to help those whose jobs they inadvertently destroy, because most of them have cut personal costs as a result of not having to pay for clothes, lunches, transport and even after-work drinks.

“The sudden shift to WFH means that, for the first time in history, a big chunk of people have disconnected themselves from the face-to-face world yet are still leading a full economic life,” Templeman wrote. “That is a big problem for the economy as it has taken decades and centuries to build up the wider business and economic infrastructure that supports face-to-face working. If a great swathe of assets lie redundant, the economic malaise will be extended.”

Templeman proposed that the tax only kick in at times when governments are no longer advising working from home as a pandemic-prevention measure. But once the all-clear is sounded, he wants employers that don’t provide desks to pay up, or employees that choose to keep working from home to foot the bill.
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November 17, 2020 8:20am
- muppeth8r
  
  that would give govts a financial incentive to continue restrictions and milk any percieved threat the media latches onto
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:23am
- krazykiwi
  
  The tax is nuts, but this assessment is almost right:
  
  That is a big problem for the economy as it has taken decades and centuries to build up the wider business and economic infrastructure that supports face-to-face working
  
  The timescale is wrong. It’s taken millennia because this is how humans, as social creatures, are wired. My Davos comment above shows how the world elite’s vision includes our entire lives being digitally underpinned ergo controlled at the whim of the digital channel owners.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:27am
  - Ruawai
    
    Humans are social creatures and after the pandemic they will slowly return to CBD’s OR the housing crisis will be solved as all empty office and retail space can be converted to accommodation. Win win
    
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    November 17, 2020 8:36am
- JerJer
  
  Never going to happen. Who would enforce it and how. What will happen to people that work from home on an ad-hoc basis, i.e. once or twice a week for convenience ? Would you have to pro-rata some addititional tax based on the hours worked from home. Stupid idea from stupid people.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:51am
- thetiedarch
  
  He’s not wrong the WFH has likely killed off or will kill off the livelihoods of those who rely on money coming from people buying lunch/coffee/drinks.
  
  But an additional tax isn’t the answer. The affected businesses and people just need to learnt to adapt to WFH.
  
  For example a mobile coffee shop could make a killing roaming the suburbs with coffee and lunch type food. I know that if something like this stopped on my street once a week I’d go out and get a coffee and lunch.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:46am
  - Ehlana
    
    And that would give you a fantastic excuse to leave your home and socialise with your neighbours – a win for mental health, community spirit, etc. …
    
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    November 17, 2020 10:46am
- rangitoto
  
  The same argument could be used to tax online stores at a special rate because high street shops lose jobs. Perhaps we should be taxing electric power companies because they cost whale hunters their jobs.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:59am
- greybeard
  
  To use an extreme example in order to test Deutsche Bank’s logic:
  how would they propose to tax or punish people if nobody worked from home but all workers took lunches and drinks from home to their place of work ?
  The outcome for the restaurants and cafes would be the same – a dramatic drop in the number of customers.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:18am
Maggie Pie

We were discussing over dinner last night, what’s really depressing for a lot of people, is the knowledge that they will never receive a ‘red-cent’ in compensation from China, for the utter devastation they’ve caused with releasing the Coronavirus on the world.

Just saying.
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November 17, 2020 8:23am
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Maggie Pie , proof?
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    SB2, proof to the contrary? And as to the legitimacy of your question? You are not an expert in anything, just a dog barking at fire engines and cars.
    
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    November 17, 2020 8:52am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    They knew there was human to human transmission yet lied about it and still sent their people out all over the world when they should have locked down their borders. They also attacked anyone that tried to shut out Chinese flights despite knowing that countries needed to do that to keep out Covid.
    
    This is all fact. It even makes sense. China was about to take a massive hit economically, by ensuring Covid goes out to other countries they actually turn it into an opportunity for them to expand their power base.
    
    You would have to have your head in the sand to think this isn’t the case. The Chinese government don’t value human life (outside of as a resource to be used and abused) so this plan to them is an entirely rational response to a pandemic.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:02am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Proof is everywhere you look if you have the eyes to see and the brain to process.
    
    Let’s start with the simplest fact though:
    
    The CCP locked down Wuhan and forbade all domestic air and ground travel out of Wuhan, while AT THE SAME TIME (raising voice for emphasis) allowed and encouraged the worldwide diaspora of Wuhanites by international air travel for CNY.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:03am
- JackRabbit
  
  China is the wrong target for your depression or anger. Punch and Judy do not write the script, nor do they control the show. They are merely puppets.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:32am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “utter devastation”?
  Share markets have never been higher!
  What gives?
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:34am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The people do. These money games cannot continue forever.
    
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    November 17, 2020 10:08am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Who’s shares are doing well? Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook, Twitter etc….. see the trend? These companies directly benefit from mass lockdowns. If you are a “little guy” you are finished, to the benefit of the massive guys. We are being and have been lied to. Do you really think Jacinda is doing anything of her own accord? I don’t. We aren’t a sovereign nation any more. It’s all just theatre, but with very real consequences.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:19am
    - beadgame
      
      NZX 50 is at an all time high so our PM must be doing something right. Not a sovereign nation?? David has created a bunch of loonies….
      
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      November 17, 2020 8:50pm
- cmm
  
  The devastation has been in the response. Blame WHO and all the governments for that.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:10am
- C J Southern
  
  Chinese officials are about as responsible for the virus as NZ officials are for the ChCh massacre.
  
  It’s important too to understand that nobody has any way of identifying a potential pandemic after only a few cases (as was the case late November 2019); it would probably have started with some person going to see their doctor after not feeling well – that doctor will examine them and probably reach a conclusion of “no idea” followed by a recommendation of “go home and rest for a few days”. That would probably have been the same conclusion & recommendation from other doctors as other patients presented (keeping in mind that the vast majority of the young recover from it quickly) – and it would have been some considerable time after that that some of those doctors would have started communicating and someone would have started to “connect the dots” – and at that point the cat is well and truly out of the bag.
  
  The best result that would have been achieved if China had locked down their borders more agressively is that the spread would have been delayed by a couple of weeks – but other than that we’d all be in exactly the same situation.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:21am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Eer, no, as I said elsewhere: The CCP locked down Wuhan and forbade all domestic air and ground travel out of Wuhan, while at the same time allowed and encouraged the worldwide diaspora of Wuhanites by international air travel, for CNY.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:04am
  - John Joseph
    
    You are just a CCP troll
    
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    November 18, 2020 3:13am
- curry4me
  
  Maggie Pie: That’s right. However, you can choose to leave all the Made in China stuff on the shelf, and tell the store manager why. Also, if you want drop-shipped stuff; Alibaba isn’t the only source.
  
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  November 17, 2020 12:29pm
KevO'Brien

A warning about national lockdown and economic consequences. It may be the USA but the example applies globally:
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/peter-schiff-can-america-really-take-paid-vacation-funded-uncle-sam
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November 17, 2020 8:23am
- JackRabbit
  
  And so, when the hands on the clock of fate move around again to midnight, history repeats itself.
  
  Would you like a vacation? Or a shower in our air tight concrete showers?. You Jews have been toiling hard fighting the oppressor, so we will give you a shower and fresh clothes. Yeah right!
  
  “The future has not been written. There is no fate but what we make for ourselves. – John Connor (The Terminator)”. The Covid-19 puppeteers are the Terminators.
  
  “We can fix Covid-19 overnight. Just take this, ahem, DNA altering vaccine.”
  
  This is not a health epidemic, but an ethics epidemic.
  
  https://www.ucsf.edu/magazine/control-brains-genes
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:06am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    The fickle finger of fate persistently probes the puckered rectum of reality.
    
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    November 17, 2020 2:47pm
I remember when

So increasing house prices are fine but increasing rents are not.
Is there not a correlation?
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November 17, 2020 8:26am
- Littletramp
  
  Or thought that maybe increasing rents and falling interest rates means you can pay more for an investment property?
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:23am
- C J Southern
  
  Is the pope catholic? Are the Kennedy’s gun shy?
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:22am
SB2

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
“Obama on division, ‘crazy conspiracies’ and ‘truth decay’

Former US President Barack Obama has told the BBC it will take more than one election to reverse the division that has grown in America since Donald Trump was elected.

Mr Obama spoke to UK historian David Olusoga for BBC Arts, ahead of the publication of the first volume of his memoirs.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/world-us-canada-54946926

And what is “Truth Decay”? It is explained in ebook thus,

An Initial Exploration of the Diminishing Role of Facts and Analysis in American Public Life

by Jennifer Kavanagh, Michael D. Rich

https://www.rand.org/pubs/research_reports/RR2314.html

I for my part would say it is a process that has its origins in the rise of the Birther movement and Tea Party and continuing with greater measure under the Presidency of Donald Trump and his followers with his declamation of “ fake “ news and associated conspiracy theories like deep state pedophile cabals , Biden Hunter Ukraine etc, etc
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November 17, 2020 8:26am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Morena Stephie, he ra ataahua tenei ra…
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:44am
- Maggie Pie
  
  ……by ‘The Oracle of St Lukes’
  
  LOL!!
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:01am
- amospicton
  
  So Obama blames Trump for the division in the US. Trump was elected by the people after 8 long years of his leadership. Trump was elected precisely because of the utter frustration amongst everyday Americans that grew under Obama. Clinton and Bush too but the Democrats just don’t get it. Why was Trump elected in the first place and why did he nearly win again? Because their elitist, sneering, hypocritical disdain towards their traditional supporter base alienates and causes anger and, yes, division.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:01am
  - Flossie
    
    “Nearly win again”? The popular vote (which he also lost last time) has him around 5.5million behind Biden, and he seems to have lost the Electoral College by – to quote himself in 2016 – a Landslide!
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:15am
    - G152
      
      Popular vote doesn’t count in the US when its presidents…
      Are you buying the TDS story?
      
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      November 17, 2020 10:03am
      - Flossie
        
        I do actually know that thanks. It does show however that more people prefer Biden to Trump.
        This does not mean in any way shape or form that I am a fan of Biden – or Trump for that matter.
        Downticks? What I’ve said initially is not opinion, but fact, and I’m sorry if you don’t see that.
        
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        November 17, 2020 10:46am
    - amospicton
      
      Trump got more votes this time than Obama ever got.
      
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      November 17, 2020 11:24am
  - Inandout
    
    amo, I had time to watch Tim Pool being interviewed by Ben Shapiro. It is rather indepth but explains how Antifa and BLM operate and should be required viewing by many contributors here. It was on YouTube with a tad advertising but not overwhelming like some videos. At least for the interim we can enjoy alternative views and judge for ourselves.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOwvr-YpU1g
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:30am
- Nukuleka
  
  Now please remind me which Presidential candidate made inflammatory and divisive claims when she described a portion of her opponents’ supporters as being ‘deplorables’? And did Mr Obama during one of his speeches in support of that candidate ever contradict her statement in the interest of ‘bringing the people of the USA together’? Obama, the master of empty rhetoric, self-agrandissement and hypocrisy.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:02am
  - Fletch
    
    Yep, Obama talking about Republicans clinging to their religion and guns. Obama was a real divider who did nothing for so-called “unity”.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:41am
    - amospicton
      
      Obama is also the first President I’ve seen to so flagrantly trample over the convention of past Presidents staying out of future elections. But I guess it’s OK because……Obama.
      
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      November 17, 2020 11:26am
  - The Proper Ghandi
    
    Trump supporters have been called racist for 4 years by “bringing us together Biden” and co. Talk of unity and healing is just to placate people and get them to accept the coup. When they do, they will be actively targeted by the radical left. They want revenge, and also to prevent anything like the blindside that was 2016 happening ever again.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:24am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Lets ask “Mr Obama”
  of
  1. “fast and furious”
  2. Benghazi “protests”
  3. VA lockouts of veterans
  4. IRS banning of tax free status to right leaning charities.
  5. “If you like your Dr. you can keep your Dr., If you like your plan, you can keep your plan”
  6. Co-pays will come down.
  7. The average family will save $1500 per year.
  8. Russia collusion…fake
  9. Ukraine …..fake
  10. Impeachment……fake
  11. Line in the sand.
  12. Drone strikes of US citizens
  13. Billions in cash to Iran, that went to fund anti US terrorists.
  etc etc
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:12am
  - cmm
    
    As promised, closed Git Bay in the first few days in office…. oops no – it’s still running.
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:56am
  - SB2
    
    2. Benghazi “protests” What about Benghazi?
    
    8. Russia collusion…fake ??
    9. Ukraine …..fake ??
    
    12. Drone strikes of US citizens??
    
    !3. Billions in cash to Iran, that went to fund anti US terrorists. ???
    etc etc???
    
    The above and others total dross!
    
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    November 17, 2020 10:02am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      all true i’m afraid, just because YOU say so…don’t make it so.
      
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      November 17, 2020 11:01am
    - mark15
      
      Look at his accomplishments.
      
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      November 17, 2020 12:11pm
- cmm
  
  Obama was the most race-baiting and divisive president in the last 30 years.
  
  He put a lot of effort into fanning up racial tension (eg. the Trayvon Martin case).
  
  He was also the president that put the Mexican kids in cages (that everyone blamed Trump for).
  
  Before Obama blames others for divisiveness he should:
  1) Provide some proof.
  2) Compare it with his own track record.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:14am
  - thetiedarch
    
    Sorry, I just need to pick on that ‘kids in cages’ comments.
    
    It’s not Obama or any President’s fault these kids end up in detention centres.
    
    It’s entirely their parents fault. The USA has been quite clear that anyone trying to enter the USA illegally will be detained. And Geneva conventions require children under the age of 18 to be separated from adult populations in detention centres/prisons.
    
    It’s their damn parents fault.
    
    Everyone else entering the USA needs a Visa. Why the hell does the left wing think it’s ok for Mexicans to just enter the USA willy nilly?
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:51am
    - Batman
      
      Errrm, no. It was an intentional change in policy by the Sessions’ DoJ which lead to children being separated as a deterrent.
      
      The Geneva convention point is irrelevant as they were not being held in normal prison/detention centres. They were held in facilities designed to cater for family groups and keep them together.
      
      666 children, at last count, have been separated and now they cannot find their parents as they’ve been deported. That is a disgrace and a shame upon the entire Trump Admin, specifically the human vampire Stephen Miller.
      
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      November 17, 2020 10:42am
      - The Proper Ghandi
        
        Gee. Deterring illegal immigration. How horrible!
        
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        November 17, 2020 11:26am
  - SB2
    
    cmm, you can’t blame the former President for the Birther movement and related conspiracies. Nor the mad Tea Party movement
    
    Your kind of criticsms comes down to the simple fact that many Americans under Obama could not accept the idea of having a Black family residing in the Whitehouse.
    
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    November 17, 2020 10:08am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      SB2: I’m sorry, your race card is overdrawn and has been cancelled. Please cut it in half and discard.
      
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      November 17, 2020 11:06am
    - RW Capitalist
      
      “The Tea Party movement is an American fiscally conservative political movement within the Republican Party. Members of the movement have called for lower taxes, and for a reduction of the national debt of the United States and federal budget deficit through decreased government spending.”
      This was the ONLY reason for their existence.
      Their own comic acronym
      T…axed
      E…nough
      A…lready
      They were not violent
      They simply wanted the govt out of their back pocket
      BTW
      Most if not all were middle class and middle income folks.
      
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      November 17, 2020 11:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Historians will have a lot of fun in the future. The issue of the digital artifacts revealed in the Birth Cerficate released by Obama will keep them arguing for centuries. It is certain Obama was born, but where?
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:16am
  - SB2
    
    In Hawaii actually!
    
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    November 17, 2020 2:31pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Maybe.
      
      2 2
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      November 17, 2020 6:38pm
- Billy Collins
  
  The most important video of 2020: https://twitter.com/ElijahSchaffer/status/1300290897922453504?s=20
  
  Don’t let anyone tell you it’s Trump that created the division.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:25am
- beadgame
  
  Truth decay is what is occuring on this blog….
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:00pm
Simon

Soaring house prices = Cindy is just a cork bobbing along in the ocean.

In NZ has there ever been a time before where the PM has so limited control of broad sweep of events?
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November 17, 2020 8:28am
I remember when

Why do so many overseas votes in a General Election tend to lean to the left.
This seems most unusual if the votes are for the Green Party.
How did they get overseas, did the journey not cause any CO2 emissions?
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November 17, 2020 8:29am
- MCos
  
  I haven’t seen an analysis of the overseas votes.
  The half million or so special votes leaned to the left as they always do (if you consider Labour left anymore). However the overseas component was only around 15%.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:02am
JibberJabber

Nz’s most dangerous tree?
Something really needs to be done about this feral killer tree.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/300159221/two-crashes-into-the-same-tree-a-month-apart-take-four-lives-from-one-family
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November 17, 2020 8:34am
- sooty
  
  Or did someone commit suicide?
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:24am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “Three people have died after crashing into the same tree that claimed the life of a family member a month earlier.”
  
  “Feral killer tree”
  Is the tree feral and a killer, or does the tree kill ferals? (I run into these kinds of parsing issues as a translator all the time, which is why software can’t realy translate ambiguity.)
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:32am
- JackRabbit
  
  Any death is sad, especially if it could have been avoided.
  
  The government needs to invest another $50m, as they did with Pike River, establishing working groups, to investigate how feral trees manage to jump out in the path of oncoming cars in that area.
  
  Or could it be, like Pike River, that it was an accident, and caused or contributed to by the actions of the people, in this case the motorists.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:58am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    If the tree in question is a pine or other introduced species, could colonisation be blamed?
    
    6 0
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    November 17, 2020 11:00am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It’s not a pine; I think it’s a poplar…
      
      3 0
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      November 17, 2020 2:19pm
      - sooty
        
        I don’t think it’s very popular now, probably cut down!
        
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        November 17, 2020 10:05pm
- C J Southern
  
  Many have complained about a stretch of road that I’ve driven over 2000 without incident; the road appears just fine to me … so perhaps it’s the drivers?
  
  Perhaps the problem isn’t the tree.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:10am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    Same – Ive not encountered any issues with trees when Ive been driving on roads.
    
    Who knew?
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:54am
- OTGO
  
  I’m surprised the media hasn’t labelled it “The Murder Tree”.
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:07am
- kris
  
  There is something fishy about this story. Take a look at Streetview of the tree in question:
  https://www.google.co.nz/maps/@-37.6271467,178.3364619,3a,75y,259.7h,85.6t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s6VLjgyridVy0xA8pRksUXQ!2e0!7i13312!8i6656
  
  The tree is not directly adjacent to SH35, nor is it on a challenging bend. Its down a gravel access way to the river and what looks like a civil works yard.
  
  Given that the fence/gate has gone flying, and the damage to the tree, it must have been hit at speed.
  This leads me to believe that the driver was under the influence of drugs/alcohol.
  Locals especially would know the roads, and be slowing down given the one-lane bridge immediately ahead. You would have to be pretty addled to veer off the main road and plow into a tree in this manner.
  
  Odd that neither Stuffed nor NZHorrid pick up on this.
  
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  November 17, 2020 12:03pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Question is: How on earth did they manage to hit it? It is neither dangerous or feral. You’d have to be drunk as a skunk or drugged up to hit it. Poor tree.
    
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    November 17, 2020 1:21pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  What an evil tree! I guess there is no way that it could have been driver error or excessive speed or being under the influence of something?
  
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  November 17, 2020 2:28pm
graham

So I browse to the NZ Herald, to see what the important issues of the day might be – you know, politically, world issues, health news, and the like – and featured prominently is what apparently passes for news that is important and matters to all New Zealanders.

‘P*** off, Ken’: Hilary Barry bites back at ‘op shop’ wardrobe troll

Seriously? THIS is what our nationwide news website deems of critical importance, worthy of pride of place?

Overseas visitors must look at this and shake their heads at what a sad little hick backwater we are.
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November 17, 2020 8:35am
- Catgurl13
  
  Hillary needs to piss off as the mother and son show is well overdue for dumping.
  
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  November 17, 2020 8:49am
  - sooty
    
    But mum was just following her bestest first friend with no fashion sense!
    
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    November 17, 2020 9:26am
- MCos
  
  Quite right!
  Isn’t there a tractor factory opening the NZ Herald can report on?
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:06am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    “The factory has exceeded its targets Comrade Leader!”
    
    Sadly, none of the engines start.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:09am
Suze Wainwright

Election is done & dusted; the results are in and the govt has been finalized.

So Golriz picks now to attack National over their misleading wealth tax election adverts…

You go grrlfriend! At least we can rely on you to put your pretty voice to the most serious and pressing issues of the day.
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November 17, 2020 8:41am
- C J Southern
  
  Surely there’s war criminal she can devote her time to getting off?
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:22am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    That’s just icky 😛
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:55am
I remember when

What effect does working from home have on the number of jobs available.
How much of the work force is engaged in the daily travel of the workforce. How many will no longer be needed because of lower throughput.
Do people working from home make themselves a sandwich rather that go to a cafe.
Will working from home mean that city density changes as it alters one of the reasons for locality.
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November 17, 2020 8:41am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Nobody knows. What’s your point?
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:20am
Maggie Pie

The ‘JLR’ Brand. LOL!!

https://twitter.com/NewsroomNZ/status/1328415078534635520
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November 17, 2020 8:47am
- RJ
  
  It takes a lot of work build a sexiest creep brand.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:01am
- C J Southern
  
  Typo. Meant Band. JLR is a one man band producing “CRAP sounds” (short for Commercial RAP sounds of course …)
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

Emma Espiner ruminates on her bicultural existence:

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/emma-espiner-i-have-always-had-a-thing-for-the-whitest-of-white-men
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November 17, 2020 8:50am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  I’m a fan of black chick writers myself…
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:07am
- Sigmund Freud
  
  It’s not bad for a say, a Year 10 student.
  
  However I would not expect any adult to write this material though.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:19am
  - Harriet
    
    Yep – like Koreans and Japanese.
    
    They aren’t bi-cultural yet would be more on the same page as whites regard things past and present.
    
    Like a judge once said to some criminal trying to be excused based upon past cultural custom “You take the best and leave the rest behind, it’s how minorities or anyone else advances.”
    
    There are no cases in NZ of mass rape yet Maori are more of something else than they are Maori, clearly then Maori and pakeha USED to live together extremely well – as the mere existence of current Maori show.
    
    Their behaviour of late towards ‘whiteness’ is like they despise their ancestors and their attitude towards advancement.
    
    No character just colour.
    
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    November 17, 2020 10:44am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      If incentives are put in place to reward self-identification as Maori (i.e., a person of mixed race who will favor one line of their ancestory for political and economic reasons) then you shall have more people making the claim.
      
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      November 17, 2020 11:03am
- Libertarians are right
  
  I wonder if she realises just how racist she is?
  She talks about historical grievances caused by white people, making assumptions, assigning negative attributes etc but also does the same to white people now. Surely, doing these things now is a bigger crime than being the ancestor of someone that did it in the past?
  
  It’s also worth remembering Dave Rankin’s story (I think it was him) where his ancestor was murdered and disemboweled by a rival tribe so that they could get access to the corn in his stomach. Human history is full of these kinds of disgusting actions and they should be remembered but it’s wrong to hold people accountable now for what was done by their ancestors in the past.
  
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  November 17, 2020 9:25am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    With utu nothing is forgotten.
    
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    November 17, 2020 10:26am
    - Libertarians are right
      
      The tatooing and selling of the heads of slaves is another one. The fact is that all of this horrible stuff was very common in the past and while we should remember what was done, we shouldn’t blame people for what their ancestors did.
      
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      November 17, 2020 10:50am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      One great thing about non-tribal culture is that grievances can be addressed, compensation paid, and the issue buried without holding ill feelings that can only be extinguished by the letting of blood.
      
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      November 17, 2020 11:05am
- C J Southern
  
  I’ve just got up and my eyes are bleary.
  
  I though you wrote that she ruminates on her bisexual experience!
  
  Might need to go to specsavers …
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:04am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Sorry about that…
    
    The essay is entitled “enlightened” in the Journal in which it was first published.
    https://issuu.com/tewhe/docs/te_whe_volume__-_single_screen_res
    
    I s’pose Newsroom was just using clickbait by changing the title to one of the early sentences.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:58am
- David George
  
  It clearly escaped her notice that Chris Hitchens is/was an “indigenous writer”.
  Emma E: Anti white racist.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:59am
- oldfella
  
  Maggie, just tried to read the article. Sorry, but ground to a halt part-way through and bailed out. Self indulgent hardly begins to describe it.
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:41am
hullkiwi

We are not big TV watchers these days, but on Sunday evening we watched TV1’s Sunday programme. The programme had 2 pieces, thefirst was about the wool industry, the second was an an Australian piece about the events of White Island eruption. The piece on White Island showed us that there is an ugly and shameful aspect to NZ and New Zealanders that does not sit with the misinformed view we have of ourselves.

I say this because:
1. Despite GeoNet issued raised warning levels about seismic/geothermal activity on White Island and the inherent risk, the tour companies persisted with booked tours;
2. As events unfolded, it was independent helicopter pilots who responded to the need to of the tourists/survivors left on the island. This while the local first responders sat on their hands taking instructions from Wellington as to the risks and what to do/or not do;
3. Then there was the shameful response of the police/navy recovery operations;
4. Because of NZ’s ACC regime, no NZ agency will be held accountable to anybody when your operations could have been stopped;
5. Finally, there was the shameful politicization of events by PriNZess:
a) there was the shameful faux sympathy for locals and the throwing of money to local iwi; and
b) the claims that PriNZess had single handedly managed the tragic events of that day, and showed real leadership. She didn’t.

The only people to show real leadership were:
1. The crew of the bottoms who got people back to Whakatane;
2. The light plane that flew over the island, providing communications between the one helicopter that flew immediately to the island and Whakatane;
3. The two man crew of the one independent helicopter that flew to White Island as events unfolded. The true heros of that day.

As the first anniversary approaches, an official report is due, and it is almost a given that the report will exonerate officials from any wrong doing and it will say lessons need to be learnt.

For my part, I believe there are a number of people who should hang their heads in shame and resign their posts. But they won’t, they will as is usually the case) melt away into the obscurity of their lives, instead of facing and apologising to those who will live with the tragic events of that day for the rest of their lives.
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November 17, 2020 9:24am
- C J Southern
  
  Well said.
  
  But in all fairness, I think there’s another dynamic worthy of consideration here; I’ll tell you a true story – there was a guy I used to go SCUBA diving with – his name was John. He came across a guy who had been asphyxiated in the hold of a fishing boat and did what I’d like to think many of us would do: tried to save him. John died too.
  
  Rescuing survivers from White Island had a significantly elevated level of risk for the rescuers. The heros (and with my personal definition of the word being “those who disregard their own safety to save others” they most certainly qualified) did a risk assessment with incomplete information and accomplished something truly heroic. What we don’t know though is “how much of the success was due to the accuracy of their risk assessment” vs “how much was just down to good luck”?
  
  I don’t know the answer to that question – but logic tells us that if professional rescuers (ie emergency services) rely on “good luck” rather than “accurate risk assessments” then they will probably die “sooner” rather than “later”. Luck isn’t a good thing to literally repeatedly bet your life on.
  
  I think that we have an unrealistic expectation from the comfort & safety of our homes that (for example) if someone is trapped in a burning building then we expect the fire service to “get them out or die trying”. They have a more tempered outlook on that.
  
  With regards to White Island, what were the actual risks to rescuers? I really don’t know. Off memory I do recall seeing a photo of one helicopter destroyed – so I’m guessing that it was pretty much a roll of the dice.
  
  All kudos to the heros – but personally I’m going to hold back on my criticism of emergency services; it may have been that they were justified in concluding that the situation had far more potential for them to be added to the list of deaths than it did for a successful rescue – or it may have been that they were ridiculously over-cautious. I just don’t know.
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:00am
- Scott
  
  Hullkiwi – I agree with you. The rescuers did not rescue. What is the point of rescuers who refuse to rescue.
  It reminds me of the dairy owner who bled to death because the police would not allow anyone to go in and save him.
  If rescuers won’t rescue because it’s dangerous and they won’t let others rescue either – what is the point of having professionally trained and funded “rescuers”?
  
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  November 17, 2020 5:36pm
- ex-golfer
  
  The similarities to Pike River are astounding.
  In both cases rescue workers were delayed in “going in”.
  In the case of Pike river this led to wide-spread condemnation and the mud stuck to National and, in particular, John Key.
  That’s where the similarities ends.
  Ardern has been widely praised for her leadership over the disaster – and yet as time goes on and some real journalists get to the bottom of things (ie, Australian ones, not the lazy and biased NZ ones) the truth comes about about the poor response from the rescue services on the day.
  As one person said – if search and rescue are not prepared to go into potentially dangerous situations to do the job they are trained for, what is the point of having them?
  
  Edit: Snap, to Scotts comment above
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:06pm
Swifty

I have found that when listening to this soundtrack as I go about my day roaming the mean streets of Avondale I walk straighter, drive better, shoot faster and more accurately and my hair always looks good:

https://youtu.be/p3IPLsDxMxQ?t=88
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November 17, 2020 9:29am
Maggie Pie

We just heard some whingy, whiny, violent drug dealing 501 thug, bleating to Kerry Woodham about…. how tuff he’s finding things since being deported back here. Missing his family apparently.

As my partner said, “cry me a f–king river”
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November 17, 2020 9:38am
Fletch

This article nails the fake “unity” call of the Democrats.

Political unity is an ugly, authoritarian idea. No free nation has domestic political unity, nor should it aspire to it.

What “unity” really means is capitulation. America is once again being subjected to the inane brand of pseudo-patriotic sloganeering we saw during President Barack Obama’s tenure. Now, as then, the media will pretend that the moral fabric of the nation must be mended after GOP rule. It’s pretty transparent.

When Dems win the presidency, we are treated to solemn calls for national restoration; the opposition must embrace decorum and pass legislation it opposes. When Republicans win elections, grown women put on knitted hats depicting their reproductive organs and stomp around DC protesting, all to media adulation.

Time magazine helped erode trust in our electoral system with conspiratorial covers of the White House morphing into the Kremlin. Now it offers a commemorative cover featuring Joe Biden and Kamala Harris with the words, “A Time to Heal.”

Unlike some of our progressive friends, I don’t believe in enemies lists or censorship, so my healing process is simple: It involves playing whatever small part I can in extinguishing the political fortunes of those who want to weaken the Constitution. I’m not at all interested in finding accord with those who want to overturn the Hyde amendment, thereby making late-term abortion a state-funded practice, or with anyone who wants to “re-engage” without preconditions with Holocaust-denying Iran. Like many others, I find disunity quite therapeutic.

I suspect that, in a few weeks, “political polarization” will once again become an existential crisis of American governance. My favorite post-election headline came from the social scientists at Pew Research Center, who informed us that the “2020 election reveals two broad voting coalitions fundamentally at odds.” Two broad coalitions, you say? Fundamentally at odds? What are the chances?

Michelle Obama says we can overcome our divisions, but that Democrats must first remember “that tens of millions of people voted for the status quo, even when it meant supporting lies, hate, chaos and division.” She suggests that there is “a lot of work to do to reach out to these folks in the years ahead and connect with them on what unites us.” It’s difficult to process this level of obnoxious sanctimony. Here is a list of demands you divisive Republicans must embrace for the country to “unite.” Get on with it.

Anyhow, I reject this false choice in the name of patriotic disunity. Not one of those 72 million agents of chaos lied to millions of Americans to strip us of our health-care insurance plans. Not one of those voters has attempted to force nuns to buy contraception — or sued them when they refused. One day, I hope Michelle will stop defending the lies, hate and division that her husband inflicted on this great nation. Until then, though, we’ll have to agree to disagree.

We do that sort of thing in Washington. The liberal pivot from #Resistance to “unity” is as swift as it is dishonest. After four years of treating every unexceptional conservative policy victory as one of the Seven Seals of the Apocalypse, Washington Post columnists are already dusting off their columns about “obstructionism” and “minority rule.” After years of blanket opposition to Trump, we are being told that Joe Biden has a national “mandate.”

https://nypost.com/2020/11/15/when-talk-of-unity-just-means-surrender/
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November 17, 2020 9:44am
surfing

“Former Finance Minister Sir Michael Cullen has fired a broadside at both the Government and the Reserve Bank, saying the bank’s extraordinary money printing to prop up the economy has “little measurable positive effect”, and is out of step with the Government’s broader economic goals.”

First time I’ve ever agreed with Cullen? I think so. When did Cullen become an Act supporter?
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November 17, 2020 9:47am
- The Proper Ghandi
  
  He’s getting ready to meet his maker and wants it to go as well as possible.
  
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  December 17, 2019 11:29am
- Libertarians are right
  
  I think you misunderstood him. He’s ok with money printing. He wants the money to go to the poor instead of the banks though.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Cullen is a former, practised, Minister of Finance. He is a historian and obviously has a sense of economic linkages and consequences.
  
  Robertson is out of his depth and has probably released and enforced a wage/price spiral. That means unstoppable increases in the cost of living and a darn awful time if we try to stop it.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:31am
  - Bob
    
    Cullen was also well out of his depth, may have been a historian but never actually learnt the message from that history.
    
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    November 17, 2020 12:28pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Cullen seems to have done better than our present Robertson.
      
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      November 17, 2020 1:47pm
- Philview
  
  I have noticed a few articles this week scape goating the Reserve Bank. The media are trying to take the heat off Jacinda. Adrian Orr despite so called independence has done what Grant has told him to do. Now Grant is trying to pin inflated house prices on Adrian.
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:22am
- JamesP
  
  Apparently this is one of those things you say while in opposition not in government…
  
  https://tradingeconomics.com/new-zealand/money-supply-m2
  
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  November 17, 2020 12:02pm
Fletch

Amidst more talk of “unity”, how Democrats tried to undermine Trump from the start –

• Boycotted the Jan. 20, 2017, inauguration. Fifty-three Democratic members of Congress refused to attend, accusing Mr. Trump of conspiring with Russia to tip the election. Mr. Mueller found no such evidence after nearly a three-year FBI investigation.

• Organized a “resistance” movement. Inside the Democratic-heavy federal bureaucracy, there was talk of leaking to press and stopping new policies. Clinton activists held a postelection strategy session in Miami to fund anti-Trump campaigns.

The resistance cry even reached inside the FBI. A bureau lawyer investigating the Trump campaign text-messaged colleagues, “viva le resistance.”

[…]

• Challenged electors. They make up the Electoral College as the designated state representatives who are the final official vote to elect the next U.S. president.

Left-wing activists attempted to intervene to stop Trump-pledged electors from doing their constitutional duty. They deployed emails, phone calls and social media videos by celebrities.

One group, calling itself the “Hamilton Electors” — after Alexander Hamilton, the creator of the Electoral College — tried to persuade Trump electors to let Democrats vote in their place on the promise that they would vote for a moderate Republican.

[…]

• Called for impeachment. Rep. Maxine Waters, California Democrat, led the call for impeachment before Mr. Trump took office. She cited how Mr. Trump characterized Mrs. Clinton’s health during the campaign as a possible criminal charge.

Many more – https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/nov/15/how-democrats-tried-handcuff-donald-trump-start/
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November 17, 2020 9:49am
- Batman
  
  And Trump turned out to be just as chaotic and useless as those people feared.
  
  Now 230,000+ people are dead and he was soundly beaten at the election.
  
  Sore Loser Syndrome, or SLS, is very prevalent.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:46am
  - Inandout
    
    Batman, 230k is about your usual death rate for the US, plus 350 million people and an unknown number of illegals. Go visit that country Bat. Oh by the way, it seems marching Dems on the streets are immune from C19.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:52am
  - Fletch
    
    Trump did much better at the job than Obama, who accomplished nothing, Fact.
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:58am
    - SB2
      
      Trump ? ” 230,000 dead ” plus an economy in ruins!
      
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      November 17, 2020 2:34pm
      - Fletch
        
        Actually, the number of unemployed right now in the U.S is 6.9%, which is incredible really, given the virus etc. And when you consider that when Obama was running for re-election in 2012 it was 7.9%
        
        So Trump’s unemployment level amidst the virus is better than Obama’s in 2012.
        
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        November 17, 2020 5:18pm
      - beadgame
        
        Flesh – NZ’s unemployment rate dropped substantially under Clark, went way up under Key, and has now dropped again under Ardern.
        And the only reason unemployment was so high for Obama in 2012 is due to the magnitude of the GFC in the US which happened after Bush had been in for 8 years, and Obama brough unemployment down to 4.x% when he left office.
        
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        November 17, 2020 9:28pm
      - beadgame
        
        Fletch – you also omitted that Obama created more jobs than Trump – “Under Trump, in the three years prior to the pandemic, there were an additional 6.4 million jobs. In the last three years under Obama, seven million jobs were added.”
        
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        November 17, 2020 9:35pm
C J Southern

US Election Reality Check

Suits filed: 37
Proceedings concluded: 27
States gained due to legal action: 0
Votes gained due to legal action: 0
Cases of election fraud proven: 0

Transition to Biden countdown: 64D 19H 59M

Status: The countdown is proceeding normally. All lights are green. All systems are go
#ReportEnds
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November 17, 2020 10:01am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Meanwhile, Trumps litigating attorneys appear on TV stating they have all the evidence they need for the trials to come.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:57am
  - C J Southern
    
    They say a lot of things – but saying them doesn’t make them true.
    
    54D 18H 35M
    #ResistanceIsFutile
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:24am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Only the Courts will settle this eventually.
      I do hope the election is not a fraudulent as some say and if it justice is properly done.
      
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      November 17, 2020 1:50pm
      - C J Southern
        
        “Only the Courts will settle this eventually.”
        
        Finally we agree on something.
        
        “I do hope the election is not a fraudulent as some say and if it justice is properly done.”
        
        Which of these 2 scenarios do you think is most likely:
        
        1. The Dems are so clever that they’ve been been able to effect such widespread fraud without leaving any legally admissable evidence, or
        
        2. People are making shit up like they always do.
        
        I vote for #2 …
        
        We live in a world where anybody can say anything. The credibility of what they’re saying is a different issue altogether though. Most people have no integrity and an abundance of undeclared conflict of interest.
        
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        November 17, 2020 3:37pm
Maggie Pie

New Tourism Minister Stewy Hash tells the industry…. they need to forget Backpackers and Freedom Campers, target wealthy tourists instead.

Juicy Rentals calls in Receivers.
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November 17, 2020 10:02am
- sooty
  
  There’s lots of them about at the moment!
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:05am
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  The thing is, like Twitdorf, Gnashie is such a success story that he has the UnMidas touch…
  
  …and he even has a song written about him
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWh0DOAfc7A
  
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  November 17, 2020 12:08pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Trump will not stay in the Whitehouse.
It is forbiden.
I’ll get my hat and coat
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November 17, 2020 10:11am
- SB2
  
  It is very simple. He lost the election!
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:14am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    Have a closer look at Steve’s post
    
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    November 17, 2020 11:36am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Leave him be. He’s as thick as two short planks. Typical leftie – born without a s
      
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      November 17, 2020 3:08pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think you’ll have to SPELL it out.
      
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      November 17, 2020 3:15pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    If you cheat in an exam and I do not, and I get lower marks than you, did I lose compared to you?
    
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    November 17, 2020 12:10pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      That will go whooossshhhh
      
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      November 17, 2020 3:09pm
    - beadgame
      
      When the All Blacks loose, do they blame the other team for cheating?
      
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      November 17, 2020 9:40pm
- lofty
  
  Nice Steve, but it appears that it has wooshed over the heads of some ?
  
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  November 17, 2020 6:41pm
Maggie Pie

It’s a real pain not having a ‘$2 Shop’ in Remuera.
I find people always stare at me in Onehunga.
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November 17, 2020 11:26am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, all that sparkling jewelry tends to attract stares.
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:54am
oldfella

Chris Trotter gives one of Cindy’s inner circle a right bollocking…
‘Given Broadcasting Minister Kris Faafoi’s evident uninterest in the classic Reithian principles of public broadcasting – i.e. to educate, elevate and entertain the people – any review of his motivations for rolling-up TVNZ and RNZ into a single, state-owned broadcasting entity, leaves one fearing the worst.’
http://bowalleyroad.blogspot.com/2020/11/if-only-we-had-minister-of-broadcasting.html
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November 17, 2020 11:55am
Critical Thinker

Should using the NZ COVID Tracer app be made mandatory?

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/shows/2020/11/question-of-the-day-should-using-the-nz-covid-tracer-app-be-made-mandatory.html

It’s heartening to see that the overwhelming majority of people that have voted so far have voted NO ?
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November 17, 2020 12:00pm
- JackRabbit
  
  In this country, with virtually zero Covid-19 deaths, the tracing app is the end goal.
  
  Internationally, the vaccine is the end goal.
  
  Covid-19 is the vehicle to achieve those goals.
  
  We should remember the scam over refrigeration gases a few decades ago. On the eve of the expiration of the 50 year patent period, existing gases were “suddenly discovered” to attack the ozone layer despite being heavier than air.
  
  This allowed a whole new range of replacement gases to be patented, ensuring a new 50 year revenue stream.
  
  Who benefits out of the Covid-19 vaccines?
  
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  November 17, 2020 2:18pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    50 year patent period? Not on this planet ….. try 20
    
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    November 17, 2020 2:31pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      Sorry, the current length is 20 years. However it has not always been that.
      
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      November 17, 2020 2:44pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        Used to be 16 ….
        
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        November 17, 2020 5:41pm
- JackRabbit
  
  If they fix the MIQ cluster****, the tracing app will not be necessary.
  
  Give the virtually non-existent death toll of “by Covid”, one has to ask what is the point?
  
  The only tracing app that is really necessary is on our employees that work for us, i.e. the government. What they do with the time we are paying them for, and what and where they spend the money we are providing.
  
  Far more interesting than us visiting the local cafe, is where THEY eat, what they eat, and who pays for it, and how many hours do they actually put in.
  
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  November 17, 2020 2:32pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  The law would be impossible to enforce. Karen can call the cops all she wants, they ain’t coming.
  
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  November 17, 2020 3:29pm
oldfella

A great article from Cactus Kate calling for the return of manly men.
And, after watching those rugby players blubbering over the weekend, who would disagree with her?
https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2020/11/bring-back-manly-men-candace-owens.html
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November 17, 2020 12:08pm
- Fletch
  
  The latest issue of Vogue has pop idol Harry Styles on the cover wearing a dress. Lots of conservative commentators asking where the real men are, also.
  
  6 3
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  November 17, 2020 1:42pm
  - RJ
    
    It’s just a leftie thing
    
    https://twitter.com/DonaldJTrumpJr/status/1328457990568103939
    
    4 1
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    November 17, 2020 2:26pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Yes, poor old ex rugby commentator, Keith Quinn, has rather unwisely posted on twitter similar sentiments.
  There are 500 comments all mostly rubbishing him including one from that fellow sports expert, Lizzy Marvelly.
  Really Keith Quinn should have more sense than to enter into this sort of discussion in today’s New Zealand where kindness is only for those the left agree with and approve of.
  
  7 1
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  November 17, 2020 2:11pm
- SB2
  
  Cactus Kate must of had this is mind,
  
  https://www.penguin.co.nz/books/tarzan-of-the-apes-9780451531025
  
  and,
  
  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0083170/
  
  LOL
  
  0 12
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  November 17, 2020 2:44pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    We are all apes, stephieboy.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hominidae
    
    7 0
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    November 17, 2020 3:21pm
    - Hard Cheese
      
      Some are closer than others though….
      
      2 1
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      November 17, 2020 6:16pm
  - fightingtemeraire
    
    Look at the “men” in Parliament.
    
    Green “men” soy latte sipping Co Leader, a lip wristed Marxist and an ex “Activist in residence” at Massey.
    
    Labour arent much better.
    
    8 2
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    November 17, 2020 4:38pm
  - lifesgood
    
    “must OF had” What??? What school did you go to SB2?
    
    0 0
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    November 18, 2020 1:25pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoVr8w-GgzE

Remoaners MELTDOWN As EU Prepare WTO Brexit

The prospect of a WTO Brexit is not pleasing to the usual suspects.
There has been little agreement. So a no-deal Brexit is more likely.
They’ve been telling their usual fibs.
6 1
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November 17, 2020 12:11pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z-0NPFw0NKk

Gravy Train Hits Buffers.

The EU budget has hit the buffers with two member states refusing to sign up to it!
The 1st class passengers want to keep their champagne, and caviar. They don’t want
the 3rd class passengers to have any though. If there’s a no-deal Brexit. The Fourth
Reichs money woes would be even worse. Hungary and Poland don’t like the ‘rule
of law’ requirements. They see it as a double standard.
6 1
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November 17, 2020 12:12pm
Fletch

In the middle of the 2020 recount maelstrom, there are two attorneys with national reputations putting those reputations on the line with the promise that a massive amount of voter fraud is about to be uncovered, enough voter fraud to win President Trump a second term.

Sidney Powell is no joke. She served as a federal prosecutor for ten years and earned a national reputation as the attorney who swooped in, convinced Ret. Gen. Michael Flynn to withdraw his guilty pleas, and successfully pressured the Justice Department to drop its charges. She was a stalwart and regular presence in exposing the Russia Collusion Hoax, and by my count, everything she said was going to happen did happen.

This is a serious woman. There’s no circus atmosphere around her. And she is pledging, as she did over the weekend on Maria Bartiromo’s Sunday Morning Futures, that they have the goods, that they can prove there was enough voter fraud to overturn Joe Biden’s lead.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/11/16/sidney-powell-lin-wood-promise-theres-ton-voter-fraud/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gQpqsj3tcMU&feature=emb_title
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November 17, 2020 12:16pm
- Fletch
  
  “We have so much evidence I feel like it’s coming through in through a fire hose”
  
  10 6
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  November 17, 2020 12:27pm
  - SB2
    
    Fletch , take a reality check as at 10.00am above,
    
    2 15
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    November 17, 2020 2:37pm
  - RJ
    
    Whoops Congress is going by the law, unlike the troll and democrats, no president elect yet
    
    https://twitter.com/LawDog323/status/1328145585279365121
    
    2 2
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    November 17, 2020 7:44pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Hipkins’ pig ignorance of other nations on full display:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/123420219/covid19-minister-chris-hipkins-says-taiwan-is-not-itself-authoritarian-after-making-claim-about-mask-use
13 2
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November 17, 2020 2:46pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  He admits what they’re doing is authoritarian.
  National should be smashing Labour about being authoritarian, not geography.
  9 out 10 kiwis would even know where Taiwan is.
  
  7 3
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  November 17, 2020 3:48pm
  - Jack5
    
    They mightn’t know where Taiwan is, yet they probably use its products.
    
    Taiwanese-owned factories in Taiwan, China, Vietnam, Malaysia, Indonesia, Brazil, India, South Korea and the United States produce most of the computer gear we use.
    
    Foxconn, the trading name of Hon Hai Precision Industry, of Taiwan, is the biggest manufacturer of Apple computer products. It also makes Amazon’s Kindles, and products for brands including Microsoft, Sony, Toshiba, Nintendo, Dell, and Cisco.
    
    Foxconn is the world’s third biggest technology company, and the biggest electronics manufacturer. It owns factories in 12 Chinese cities. Estimates of employee numbers at its largest factory group, in Shenzhen, range from 200,000 to more than 400,000. Hon Hai subsidiaries include the Japanese corporation, Sharp.
    
    Taiwan’s ranks 28th in the world by GDP per capita. New Zealand ranks 48th.
    
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    November 17, 2020 5:19pm
- Swifty
  
  His spin to cover Labour’s arse failed on this occasion because he was too cute with the facts and got caught out.
  
  Unfortunately Labour get away with these untruths far too often.
  
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  November 17, 2020 3:53pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Hipkins as Minister of Covid-19 Response should have been aware that Taiwan ENCOURAGED its citizens to wear face masks as soon as the virus arrived on its shores (January 2020).
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7270822/
  
  Companies in Taiwan immediately ramped up production of face masks and produced Millions of masks /day and began donating masks to countries like the USA and Philipines.
  
  http://www.bbc.com/storyworks/future/taiwan-the-worlds-tech-partner/how-taiwan-became-a-linchpin-in-the-fight-against-covid-19
  
  Q. What was NZ doing about masks when Covid-19 first established here?
  A.We were being Spun a mish-mash of dis/mis-information…
  https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/06-04-2020/siouxsie-wiles-toby-morris-should-we-all-be-wearing-face-masks-to-prevent-covid-19-spread/
  
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  November 17, 2020 6:09pm
70andstilllearning

https://www.fxstreet.com/news/nz-trade-minister-oconnor-strong-nzd-is-always-a-concern-202011162309

So DOC as trade minister thinks he can talk the NZD/USD down.

“Following the update, NZD/USD dropped from 0.6904 to 0.6891, currently around 0.6900, as unwelcomed comments from the Pacific nation’s government challenges the Kiwi bulls.”

Pity it hit about 0.6920 1 1/2 hrs later and is currently just under 0.6910. These idiots don’t have a clue that NZ economy way to small to effect the USD strength. We are simply an inverse follower. ( Excepting really good/bad NZ economic news.)
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November 17, 2020 3:50pm
RJ

Sweden’s government is implementing tougher COVID-19 restrictions as the country battles a second wave of the virus.

The country had until now taken a controversial ‘herd immunity’ approach to tackling coronavirus, hoping enough people will catch the virus so it can’t be transmitted as easily.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2020/11/sweden-abandons-herd-immunity-approach-as-cases-soar-introduces-strict-covid-19-restrictions.html
3 8
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November 17, 2020 4:21pm
- rangitoto
  
  They are doing fine compared to most countries in Europe. The second wave peak has already passed and looking at the stats, death rate /case is down by a factor of 30 relative to the first wave. Normal flu levels:
  
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/
  
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  November 17, 2020 5:49pm
- tom hunter
  
  I’ve been tracking the Swedish situation for six months.. Sources were Worldometer and Statista.
  
  As we approach the end of the year the simple fact is that looking at deaths from all causes and comparing it to the last ten years, including population death rate… 2020 is right in line with the last decade in Sweden.
  
  To put it bluntly, if all you looked at was those figures in the s/s view and you’d never read the Web, papers, watched or listened to the news… you’d never know that Sweden had been hit by a disease pandemic.
  
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  November 17, 2020 10:06pm
Jack5

?? China seems to be building a case that Covid-19 didn’t begin in China – that it was detected earlier in Italy.

Regardless, the South China Morning Post, once a democracy champion in Hong Kong, seems to be falling into line with Beijing. Not surprising since Beijing reined in its owner, Jack Ma, cancelling his planned $US37 billion IPO of his Ant Group.

Of course, thousands of Chinese work in Italy’s garment industry, enabling Chinese brands to export as “made in Italy”.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/science/article/3110088/covid-19-virus-hunters-pick-another-piece-trail-italy
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November 17, 2020 4:55pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  China (as in the CCP) is axxhole.
  
  1 0
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  November 17, 2020 6:59pm
- Couchpotatoe
  
  Yep they are getting hammered.
  
  0 0
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  November 17, 2020 10:30pm
Fletch

Update on the voting software story – including that it was employed for president Chavez in the 2006 election which Chavez won. The same software was also used to aid Maduro in winning his election. That pretty much tells you all you need to know. Trump’s lawyer has a witness regarding the software and its use there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_p1sonhp-k

It seems like the FBI is investigating all this now.
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November 17, 2020 5:29pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Pretty meaningless. Venezuela is not the USA. Need actual evidence pointing to voting machine fraud in USA. Most suspicious (if you are looking for such) are the places where counting was halted for some period of time on election night – which would be a great opportunity to insert cheating software or wipe previously altered cheating software. Forensically examining machines that weren’t used or that broke down would be useful too.
  
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  November 17, 2020 11:26pm
HeatherW

Waipipi Wind Farm has added four wind turbines (of 31) to the national power grid today. This is probably the site Labour said they commissioned, haven’t heard them crowing about it yet.
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November 17, 2020 6:59pm
HeatherW

Great (not). Chorus has almost stopped digging up the berm to install fibre broadband. Next year they might start removing the copper lines.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/123421932/free-mobiles-coming-for-vulnerable-to-contact-111-during-power-cuts
3 1
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November 17, 2020 7:13pm
Jack5

NZME, publisher of the NZ Herald and some North Island provincial newspapers and in radio owner of Newstalk ZB, has signed a co-operation deal with Maori TV.

Staff of the two organisations are already co-operating in news coverage.

The Herald is following in the path of State radio, which was virtually taken over by the Maori tribal radio network in a coup organised by Labour MP Wily Willie Jackson.

Given that the State is helping regional newspaper coverage through a Radio NZ deal, and given that taxpayers fund Maori TV, the agreement extends State tentacles further into the print media.

Shane Taurima, chief executive of Maori TV, has said in a statement:

“Maori Television’s core remit is to support the revitalisation of te reo and tikanga Maori. We look forward to working with NZME to achieve this outcome.”
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November 17, 2020 8:14pm
RJ

Dear mod, please forgive my language

What a fucken waste of police time

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/coronavirus-police-to-patrol-auckland-transport-hubs-once-mandatory-face-mask-rules-begin.html
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November 17, 2020 8:52pm

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