About
Contact
Advertise

Facebook
Twitter

November 30, 2020 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 30 November 2020

Like this:

Like Loading…

Email
Facebook
Twitter
Comment450

Uncategorized
General Debate

Comments (450)

Login to comment or vote

Scott

I turned on the cricket to watch the T20 game between New Zealand and the West Indies and I was incensed! Not by the cricket but by the sight of our cricket team, our New Zealand cricket team, bending the knee to Black Lives Matter and combating racism or some such thing. What the hell does New Zealand cricket and the New Zealand cricket team have to do with some racial movement in America focusing on white police officers shooting black suspects?
Is this not the most pointless and inappropriate virtue signalling of all time?

Here are my questions. Is sport not interesting enough that we have to be bombarded with social justice messages?
What if a member of the New Zealand cricket team didn’t want to bend the knee? Would he be pointed out and ostracised by the New Zealand media? Would he be driven out of the New Zealand cricket team for failing to bow the knee?
How long will it be before the crowd is urged to bend the knee when attending these games? Do we all have to bend the knee?
How long must we put up with this? Those of us that just want to watch a game of cricket is this our life now? That we are bombarded with vexing social justice messages that have nothing to do with the sport that we are watching?

Is the New Zealand public going to put up with this? Or are we going to quietly tune out disgusted with meaningless virtue signalling?
The Australian rugby union led by the foolish female Kiwi Raelene Castle persecuted their best player Israel Folau because of his Christian message on social media regarding homosexuality. There was a backlash. Castle quite rightly lost her job. People stopped watching rugby. They just quietly gave up watching rugby. Even now the Australian rugby union is peddling hard to try and undo the damage caused by social justice warriors engaging in deeply contentious virtue signalling.

The question remains. Are we going to put up with this?
112 12
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:03am
- muppeth8r
  
  Itll go the way of NBA in america, many are tuning out to the woke bullshit.
  
  its desperate and extremely tacky, its up there with cindy wearing a hijab
  
  77 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:08am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  It obviously was not ‘meaningless’, as it appears to have upset you considerably.
  Please don’t watch any more cricket if it is so disturbing.
  
  13 75
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:09am
- yossarian
  
  If you want pointless virtual signalling, try Climate Change Emergency Declaration?
  
  97 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:12am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Or apologising for being a newspaper?
    
    To be fair to $1uff, all their publications and their website are appalling examples of the dying art of journalism, so they definitely should be apologising and trying to do better, but not for something published 100 years ago.
    
    12 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:33pm
- WaynelSexton
  
  The war on Western Civilization isn’t new. It’s just more in your face now, because the demographics aren’t in our favour.
  
  67 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:13am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    In what way is protesting against racism part of a ‘war on Western civilization’?
    
    9 47
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:03am
    - pussycat
      
      This will give you the answer you are looking for
      
      https://www.spiked-online.com/2020/11/27/critical-race-theory-a-ruling-class-ideology/
      
      8 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:00am
    - Cobolt24
      
      For a start they’re focusing on the odd occasion an American is killed by police and not the prison system which incacerates blacks at a much higher rate in comparison with their population.
      Google: “Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994” this has made the US prison population soar.
      
      Solving this would do far more to combat racism than getting on their knees for a handful of Americans dying in custody, not just blacks either, type up “Tony Timpa”
      
      8 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:11am
    - Don Beckett
      
      Find out about BLM- how ity started & what it promotes – and then you might understand.
      
      29 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:31am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        I already know more about it than you, thank you.
        
        4 34
        Report
        November 30, 2020 10:33am
    - Exclamation Mark
      
      BLM is a Marxist organisation, which you already knew.
      
      Marx and his followers: not big fans of the West, managed to starve, torture and murder 50-100 million people last century, as you may recall from History lessons assuming you went to school last century.
      
      Ergo taking a knee and supporting BLM and their idealogy is part of ‘war on Western civilization’.
      Again, you already knew that.
      
      The NZ cricket team taking the knee will not change a single attitude toward racism, no one on earth who hates another race will witness this act and change their mind.
      
      Given the horror, the misery and human suffering that Marxism has wrought on the world, why do you not stand against it, in all its forms, like you would against fascism and Nazism?
      
      29 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:35am
      - Batman
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        Oh puh-lease, BLM may have some far lest activists at it’s core but the public message is not unreasonable at all.
        
        The benefit of BLM and taking the knee is that it neatly exposes the intolerant.
        
        Hopefully cricket fans will now be a better class of folk and there will be less stories like “foreign player subjected to racial slur”, which can only be a good thing.
        
        4 37
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:17am
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Sorry Exclamation, this is a response to Batman and “Oh puh-lease”.
        Here are the beliefs BLM used to announce proudly, before they wiped history on their website:
        
        We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.
        
        We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.
        
        We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.
        
        We build a space that affirms Black women and is free from sexism, misogyny, and environments in which men are centered.
        
        We practice empathy. We engage comrades with the intent to learn about and connect with their contexts.
        
        We make our spaces family-friendly and enable parents to fully participate with their children. We dismantle the patriarchal practice that requires mothers to work “double shifts” so that they can mother in private even as they participate in public justice work.
        
        We disrupt the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and “villages” that collectively care for one another, especially our children, to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable.
        
        We foster a queer‐affirming network. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking, or rather, the belief that all in the world are heterosexual (unless s/he or they disclose otherwise).
        
        Now last time I looked, calling people “Comrade” and disrupting “the Western-prescribed nuclear family structure requirement” are particular to one political ideology.
        
        Would you say the same thing about a White Lives Matter?
        And if you’d played any cricket at a decent level whatsoever, you would be well aware that it’s not just foreign (and I assume by that you are saying non-white) players who are subject to racial slurs. The biggest problem is that no one cares if white players are called say,”white pricks”, but try putting black in there for a black player. Then it’s front page news and there are investigations.
        
        24 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:54am
      - Batman
        
        If you take out the woke language there, there isn’t much to be upset about
        
        It fundamentally says that people should be supported to work and raise families without structural expectations of the current economy. Remember this is all a US context where there is no paid leave, healthcare is a shitshow or a million dollar bill, and labour laws are pretty unacceptable to anyone else in the OECD. All of that impacts heavily on people of colour who end up working two minimum wage jobs to survive.
        
        The nuclear family bit is just dumb window dressing to make ‘it takes a village to raise a child’ sound less folksy.
        
        5 22
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:06pm
      - Jack5
        
        Batman, you really believe the goal of BLM and kneeling demonstrations at big sports events is to “expose the intolerant”?
        
        21 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:04pm
      - Batman
        
        No, but it is very helpful in highlighting those nitwits.
        
        4 24
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:22pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Batman, who said that “the nuclear family performs ideological functions for Capitalism – the family acts as a unit of consumption and teaches passive acceptance of hierarchy. It is also the institution through which the wealthy pass down their private property to their children, thus reproducing class inequality”.
        I’ll help, it was a guy called Karl Marx. And just to add, BLM founder, Patrisse Cullors said in 2015 that she and her fellow organizers are “trained Marxists”. The woman was a protégé of Eric Mann, former agitator of the Weather Underground, US domestic terror organization. I’m not sure that these people do window dressing.
        
        9 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:03pm
      - Exclamation Mark
        
        @ Batman
        
        So you are happy with NZ sports teams genuflecting to the arbitrary whims of an amorphous Marxisit organisation from the US because you can positively identify anyone who disagrees with as a racist? Gotcha, says a lot about about you. I remember, not that long ago when the left used to be forever moaning about the creeping influence of American culture on our own, and, my, look how fervently they embrace it now.
        
        “If you take out the woke language there, there isn’t much to be upset about”
        
        Why did they remove it from their website then?
        
        “The nuclear family bit is just dumb window dressing to make ‘it takes a village to raise a child’ sound less folksy.”
        
        How’s that destruction of the nuclear family working out for African Americans Batman? How is that preponderance of broken single parent homes working out for Maori here in NZ mate?
        How did the village get on with raising the Kahui twins? Or Nia Glassie, JJ Ruhe-Lawrence, Jyniah Te Awa and Moko Rangitoheriri? I would probably reach my word limit before I ran out of names of Maori kids killed at the hands of their own family members or mum’s latest hookup. Is any sports team in America going to drop to their knees for them?
        
        9 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:47pm
- Yabster
  
  vote with your feet/eyes- stop watching woke b/s- speaking of which have you seen stuff today- woke b/s apologies, guilt, bad white people, even the bloody cartoon- can anyone recommend a good free nz news site- (Newshub is just as bad).
  
  65 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:15am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    interest.co.nz is pretty good for business and politics. No sport or gossipy bollocks.
    
    32 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 8:38am
    - coge
      
      Yes. And they allow comments on all articles. Little bit obsessed with residential property however.
      
      6 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:03pm
  - artemisia
    
    Stuff cementing its claim for more taxpayer funding.
    
    Personally not in favour of calls to boycott, but quiet individual choices will happen.
    
    46 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 8:39am
    - curry4me
      
      artemisia: I only go to their website if I’m following a link.
      
      5 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 2:55pm
  - BananaLlama
    
    Newsmedia in NZ are already bankrupt, doesn’t stop them from raiding your pocket one bit. The irony of them proclaiming diversity when i doubt they employ a single voter from the right yet we are still forced to pay for it.
    
    52 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 8:40am
  - Belinda
    
    That is about the most woke thing Ive read this year.
    My first thought when I saw all the red, was huh it’s not Anzac Day.
    
    32 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 8:51am
  - jacob
    
    ‘I’m sorry for being a journalist’
    
    34 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:25am
    - Engelbert Humperdink
      
      Well, to be fair they should be sorry… because they are a sorry lot of woke fact-mangling Labour tongue-bathers.
      
      13 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:11pm
    - igm
      
      Take a look at this crap then . . .
      https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2020/11/tame-iti-50-years-of-newsmaking/
      No self-respecting journo would write bullshit like this.
      
      6 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 4:08pm
  - Cobolt24
    
    For a homepage, switch to Scoop or MSN
    
    4 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:20am
- SGA
  
  On the other hand, Scott, do you object to All Blacks with Christian symbols on their wristbands, or who make religious gestures once they score a try (I don’t, fwiw).
  
  9 38
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:16am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s different, obviously.
    
    8 30
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:03am
  - Nickc2
    
    That’s a personal thing. The whole team doesn’t do it.
    
    33 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:25am
    - SGA
      
      So if only some of the players had done it, then people here wouldn’t be complaining? I doubt that somehow.
      
      I’m just trying to disentangle whether the issue here is that sports players should just get out there and get on with just playing sport (leave their other beliefs in the changing shed, as it were), or whether it’s not ok if we don’t like the message.
      
      5 7
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:03am
      - Jack5
        
        Few would find these gestures objectionable: displaying an Argentine jersey to mark Maradonna’s death; Sonny Bill Williams making an Islamic gesture after scoring; a religious Polynesian player looking skywards after his try.
        
        BLM relates to past injustices in other countries, but also to riots and destruction of statues.
        
        It’s on the road to sports teams wearing political party slogans, sponsored or unsponsored.
        
        10 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:11pm
      - Nickc2
        
        I was referring to Rugby Players penning religious symbols/references on their wrist sweatbands. I was not in any way referring to taking a knee in support of a foreign cause. That I find abhorant and it’s not the NZ way. It may become the way of the Aotearoans, but not being one, I should not pass judgment.
        
        8 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:26pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    I don’t have an issue with an individual wearing a religious symbol on their wrist band, because it’s their personal choice and they are not trying to impose it on anyone else. The problem is the mob mentality. With the bended knee their is group peer pressure for everyone on the team to make their political beliefs public and conform to the group. It is akin to the Washington DC mob who were going to tables and requiring outdoor diners to raise a fist to black lives matter.
    
    You have a right to be in your business environment or out to dinner and practice your political beliefs privately and without prejudice or pressure. And arguably you could not take the knee but that is a statement in itself. And why should you be forced to show your political beliefs at work, anymore than you should be forced to out your religious beliefs or sexual orientation. Will the outing of your political beliefs affect sponsorship and your career options – you betcha.
    
    With the public knee display they are outing people who don’t agree with them. There is no nuance or discussion. You’re either for or against. Furthermore, they have purposely blurred the inarguable statement that black lives matter, with the name of a political group that has been looting cities, asking for defunding the police, and involved in violence. Raise a fist, take a knee. It only has meaning if you do it of your own free will.
    
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8667833/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-Washington-DC-diner-tormented-Black-Lives-Matter-mob.html
    
    35 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:32am
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Had I been dining there I would explained to the agitators that I am having a Greek salad and I can raise two fists because I have found that black Olives matter.
      
      12 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:47am
      - Catgurl13
        
        Lol lol lol!!!!!!
        
        4 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 1:36pm
- Justitia
  
  Yes Scott, a shameful display of support by our cricket team for an avowedly Marxist movement. This is a huge turn-off. I won’t be watching their games. Political gestures have no place on the pitch.
  
  73 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:20am
- Exclamation Mark
  
  The answer is yes, yes we are.
  
  There is no one in NZ politics or media with the balls and brains to properly champion a push back against this bullshit. David Seymour can’t do all the heavy lifting and his new MPs don’t yet have the experience to make a statement about something like NZ Cricket/BLM without getting utterly mauled in the media.
  
  NZ needs a Douglas Murray or a Mark Steyn or an Andrew Sullivan but we have no one on the same sport, let alone ballpark as those guys.
  
  67 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:23am
  - adamsmith1922
    
    See this post for good points from Douglas Murray
    
    https://adamsmith.wordpress.com/2020/11/30/conversations-douglas-murray-the-insanity-of-the-woke-left/
    
    21 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:09am
  - pdm
    
    Sir Bob Jones – maybe.
    
    20 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:15am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  Were team members bullied into “bending the knee”?
  If so, is it ethical for a sporting body to coerce its employees to take certain political stances (such as kneeling) against their will?
  Where is the Cricket Players’ Union when you need them?
  
  58 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:24am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I am sure the CPA would have already spoken out if this was an issue for some players.
    
    16 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 8:49am
- dave_c_
  
  Indeed – well said sir !
  And what’s with all this ‘maori-isation’ of all things in this country.
  If they are looking for Apartheid, they won’t like what they end up creating !
  
  49 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:27am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Fun fact: it’s pretty hard for the homeland of Maori to be anything other than ‘Maori-ised’.
    
    8 36
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:04am
    - graham
      
      Fun fact number 2: I believe dave_c_ referred to the ‘maori-isation’ of all things in this country, not the homeland in exclusion.
      
      14 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:24am
    - Yabster
      
      b/s Mike- no one objects to Maori having their culture but most object to it being pushed down our throats and the whole lefty white guys like yourself who most Maori laugh at – you would be at home sitting on the Waitangi Tribunal with a greenstone carving around your neck , furrowed brow, head down repeatly apologising for how the bad whitey came over 150 years ago and ruined your amazing lives you had back in 1840 – you make me sick mate.
      
      18 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:22am
      - Batman
        
        That’s exactly the problem, people like yabster who want Maori culture kept in the cupboard under the stairs. Not seen and certainly not heard in their lives and certainly not near government.
        
        There’s a word beginning with r that describes it.
        
        3 23
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:24am
      - Yabster
        
        oh know you used the r word (assume Woke Batman that refers to “r’ight?) – re Government have you been to a Government department lately (maybe winz..) its everywhere also re Government Maori are over represented -so hope you will be taking that up with the woke elite in the name of equity.
        I have no problem with Maori culture I also have no interest in it either.- looks like I am “r”ight again…
        
        13 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:41pm
      - In Vino Veritas
        
        Yabster, this is for Batman who seems to have disabled replies.
        Batman, I don’t know Yabsters motivations for his comments, but I can’t see that he says “it should be kept in a cupboard”.
        Maori culture should be celebrated by those who want to celebrate it. It should not be forced on anyone by legislation. If Maori want their culture to survive, it is the responsibility of Maori. For instance, Newshub reported in January of this year that UNESCO has listed Te Reo as “vulnerable” because only about 100 New Zealanders can speak it proficiently. Another 2.7% can hold a basic conversation. These are not the statistics of a people that are interested in their own language. And there is nothing racist about that.
        
        9 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:22pm
- Simon
  
  Lol – NZ cricket team taking a knee for bolshevik lives matter. Did they all take the knee? Is there no “diversity” in the cricket team?
  
  47 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:32am
  - tf78
    
    I see now that Asian’s (Chinese, Indians etc.) are no longer considered people of colour because they’re too intelligent!
    
    34 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:09am
- RiP NZ
  
  Scott. No one I know or who’s opinion I value,of any race,creed,religion would want to see me on my knees for any reason other than maybe a marriage proposal.
  
  Have some fkn self respect.
  
  32 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:32am
  - rockape
    
    Taking the knee started with refusal to stand for the US national anthem. Do kiwis want to go down that road?
    
    11 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The worlds now crazy.
  
  31 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:37am
- andrew davies
  
  I am not black. Does my life matter?
  
  17 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:59am
  - Okahu
    
    I’m afraid if you have to ask the answer is not likely to be favourable.
    
    2 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 5:58pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  We elected the crap gummit which is about to declare climate emergency and impose envy tax. Why do we need to bother?
  
  15 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:20am
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    “What’s this ‘we’, white man?”
    
    – as quoth Tonto, before BM pulls the rayciss card.
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 6:25pm
- Raphael
  
  I was at the game, and both somewhat annoyed and amused.
  
  Annoyed because while I can agree with the phrase “Black Lives Matter” and “White Lives Matter” and “Brown lives Matter” and “Blue Lives Matter” and also “All Lives Matter”, I cannot agree with the BLM movement which wants nothing short of the destruction of Western Civilisation, and is one of the most rabidly racist organisations around.
  
  Amused because the NZ Human Right’s association’s anti-racism website URL is Voice Of Racism (I can’t recall if .org.nz or .co.nz)
  
  28 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    the BLM movement which wants nothing short of the destruction of Western Civilisation
    
    Citation required.
    
    1 21
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:10am
- Dr John
  
  And ask each of those Black Caps who Justine Damond was. I bet not one of them know.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tm86QPhCwFc
  
  11 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:48am
- giltee
  
  NZ sport has become so pc I no longer watch it. I was once fiercely patriotic and now every time I hear the national anthem I switch off. To me it started with the changing the crusaders logo, the hideous new emblem, the extending of the name of super rugby and so on. I was brought up to be colourblind to different races, that were all equal and treat others how you want to be treated. How wrong my mother was
  
  30 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:06am
- emmess
  
  Almost 100 likes
  Never seen that before here
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:03pm
Caleb

https://www.zerohedge.com/political/smartest-man-room-just-joined-sidney-powells-team

Biden got more votes than Obama.. Would that be like Brash getting more votes than Key?
19 10
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:05am
- CrazyIvan
  
  It would be more like English getting more votes than Key (he did by about 20k)
  
  12 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:54am
  - pdm
    
    Maybe John Tamahere getting more votes than Jacinda Ardern.
    
    13 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:17am
  - Raphael
    
    The difference is English was actively campaigning, Biden was hiding in his basement.
    
    11 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:45am
    - Bullion
      
      There’s more to campaigning than holding rallies.
      
      4 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:56am
      - Batman
        
        No no, rallies and crowd size is the only acceptable metric of success now ?
        
        Votes include people who don’t like you so are therefore not helpful or valid.
        
        2 9
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:00pm
- Crossing The Bar
  
  Yet another way that the whole thing stinks. Too often we dismiss our instincts. The “if it feels wrong, then it likely is wrong” principle is compelling. I am watching and waiting the legal challenges with interest, and, despite the breathless dismissals by the critics, the acts of witness and lawyer intimidation alone tell us that they are onto something. People are worrying and beginning to panic.
  
  This is another great article pointing out what are obviously red flags.
  
  https://thefederalist.com/2020/11/23/5-more-ways-joe-biden-magically-outperformed-election-norms/
  
  22 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:06am
  - Inandout
    
    CTB, I saw that on the TV being discussed and my first thought was ‘how to polish a turd’.
    
    10 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:38am
  - BeeJay
    
    And here we go again- The Federalist- just another Garbage Conspiracy site, providing Fraudulent information! C’mon sensible people, just check it out on Wikipedia for yourself!
    When will this crap ever end? Maybe once Trump is dead and buried!
    
    5 12
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:58am
    - Batman
      
      It is permanent. He has duped them with enough drivel to have them permanently believe that he won and it was a fraud.
      
      There is no helping them. They’re spent as a source of rational commentary.
      
      8 22
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:09am
    - Crossing The Bar
      
      You’re too much! Given that you or I can edit Wikipedia and place any false information in there that we wish, I’d hardly call your position rational. Prejudiced and blinkered definitely, but not rational. Please address and evaluate only the content. Your premise seems to be an unevidenced presupposition that the so-called approved sources you favour are beyond reproach. Please establish some justification for holding that view.
      
      9 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:17am
    - dcrane
      
      Then demolish the arguments. Attacking the source is a sign of weakness.
      
      5 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:45pm
  - fernglas
    
    Has it not occurred to anyone that the reason norms were broken was because it was not a normal election? Trump polarised and activated people more than any previous President, so it’s hardly surprising the old norms were swept away.
    
    5 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:53am
    - Crossing The Bar
      
      I’ve considered that, but have instead concluded that fraud was the most likely explanation for a statistically, empirically, and historically near-impossible outcome.
      
      13 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:21am
    - dcrane
      
      It is possible. Perhaps what we saw was a historic turnout of new voters (for several reasons) who largely voted an “eff you” to both Trump *and* the Democratic Party. That’s the only way to explain Trump’s loss being combined with Dems losing 27 out of 27 close House races, left-wing ballot proposals going down in CA, red gains at state level Houses, failure of Ds to take Senate in easy year, etc.
      
      Otherwise there was cheating at the level of the presidential race. I think either option could be true.
      
      4 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:48pm
      - Batman
        
        It’s the first option you outline. But I would variate it to be Republican voters giving a big *up yours* to Trump and his behaviour but they don’t want to vote Dem down the ticket and give them full control. So they vote GOP for both state and federal Senate and House etc.
        
        3 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:17pm
      - dcrane
        
        Batman: But if Trump’s loss was just R voters leaving him off the top, how do Ds do so poorly in the other races when they (supposedly) had 10+ million more of their own voters come out? Are you saying that most of the new voters *overall* were R friendly (except for the Trump race)? I guess I’ll have to mull that one over some more.
        
        3 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:47pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Morn’in Ghandi,
    
    The only people starting to panic are the Trump supporters because:
    
    (a) the courts have made it 100% clear that no evidence of fraud has been presented (or even alleged) (and have ruled accordingly) and
    
    (b) the certification process is proceeding nominally:
    
    – Georgia – Certified (Biden)
    – Michigan – Certified (Biden)
    – Pennsylvania – Certified (Biden)
    – Nevada – Certified (Biden)
    
    Arizona – Due tomorrow (our time) (Biden)
    Wisconsin – Due Wednesday (our time) (Biden)
    
    So what’s your next move?
    
    5 12
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:19am
    - Crossing The Bar
      
      Look’s like we’ve caught another one, boys. Reel it in??.
      
      7 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:25am
      - C J Southern
        
        Oh – so you’re just trolling us? Whew – and there was me thinking you were just stupid.
        
        5 6
        Report
        November 30, 2020 1:15pm
    - dcrane
      
      Every day does make it harder for Trump. But the election isn’t over until the electoral college electors are all assigned and accepted by the new Congress. So perhaps still room for interesting twists.
      
      By my count, just 45-50k votes in a few states (AZ, GA, WI, plus 1 extra EV) makes the difference here. It is very close, closer than in 2016 where people were saying Trump won by only 100k votes.
      
      3 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:52pm
      - Batman
        
        Biden’s margins in the key states are multitudes higher than Trump’s in 2016.
        
        2 4
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:30pm
      - dcrane
        
        Batman…can you show the numbers to compare with mine? Is the 50k vs 100k comparison not correct?
        
        2 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:48pm
- JackRabbit
  
  Great link. Thanks.
  
  11 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:09am
- BeeJay
  
  Here we go! Zerohedge – another US Radical Right, pro Russian website feeding the best conspiracy theories to its followers! FFS you Trumpers, give it a break will you. Any sane person can find the same garbage sites that you constantly promote as valid sources of information! People, just spend a few minutes to check them out yourself and you can see what garbage they’re feeding to their loyal followers!
  
  7 27
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:41am
  - Crossing The Bar
    
    Do you have anything to say about the content, or are you just having an irrational fit because you don’t like the source? Break the conditioning.
    
    13 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:03am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It’s not irrational to diss a story from Zero Hedge – it’s famous for hysterical bullshit.
      
      5 15
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:11am
      - Crossing The Bar
        
        Says who? You? ??
        
        11 5
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:23am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes, although I am hardly the only person to consider it a haven for conspiracy theories and gold buggery, along with repeated forecasts of imminent global economic collapse.
        
        4 12
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:35am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Yourself not considered?
        
        4 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:58am
  - tf78
    
    BeeJay – same can be said of Herald, Stuff and Newshub – who to believe and what message do you want depends where you go to find it.
    
    8 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:38am
  - NoFax
    
    Did CNN tell you that Zerohedge is “radical right”? Or would you like to back that up with some facts? Name me 3 stories they are wrong on – just 3.
    
    11 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:53am
  - dcrane
    
    Anyone still tossing around the “pro-Russian” smear after the collapse of Russiagate clearly has something other than getting things straight as their goal.
    
    No Trump people were indicted for any role in a conspiracy with Putin/Russia to influence an election. This was the whole basis of Russiagate.
    
    No Russiagate charges at all were introduced in an impeachment that Pelosi completely controlled. Clearly she had zilch.
    
    Trump says he has declassified all Russigate docs (as of October), yet no Democrats are bringing out the unredacted Muller Report, which they claimed was hiding all of the evidence.
    
    So, the ultimate “conspiracy theory”.
    
    6 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:56pm
    - Batman
      
      Good Lord, you need some research lessons.
      
      “No Trump people were indicted for any role in a conspiracy with Putin/Russia to influence an election. ”
      
      https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charges_brought_in_the_Special_Counsel_investigation_(2017%E2%80%932019)
      
      I know you’re desperately trying to reframe it as a very narrow definition of a specific conspiracy but that falls down too given that the report is very clear that Stone and Trump withheld some key information about what they knew and when.
      
      As for impeachment, yes I agree that Russia should have been brought up as additional charges. It would have helped bring more information to light if given the time and court processes.
      
      3 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 3:40pm
      - dcrane
        
        Batman – get serious. Quote me from Mueller stating what the conspiracy was. I don’t care how broadly you outline it. There wasn’t one, and Mueller said repeatedly he had not established one.
        
        https://theintercept.com/2019/04/18/robert-mueller-did-not-merely-reject-the-trumprussia-conspiracy-theories-he-obliterated-them/
        
        The wikileaks stuff had to do with Trump people being led to believe there was dirt to be had on Hillary. That was no more wrong than Hillary paying (through an intermediary) Russians for dirt on Trump. I can’t believe we’re still having to argue this in 2020/.
        
        4 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:54pm
      - Batman
        
        Yes you’re talking about a specific conspiracy, found and charged as per US law. It is correct that one was not found and charged. That is a hair splitter argument.
        
        My point is, and always has been, that the investigation was stymied by Trump and Stone. They even bragged about it in public.
        
        Here is the pertinent quote: https://apnews.com/article/94323cfc164c4759ba6bf84ad2a46203
        
        “If we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so,” Mueller declared.
        
        1 5
        Report
        November 30, 2020 4:45pm
      - dcrane
        
        While I have you on this topic, what could be the explanation for this: You know that Russian lawyer in the infamous Trump Towers meeting? The Fusion GPS founder (Glenn Simpson) met with her both before and after that meeting.
        
        https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fusion-gps-official-met-with-russian-operative-before-and-after-trump-jr-sit-down
        
        This is the same Fusion GPS that concocted the dossier with Hillary’s funds. What could be the explanation for this? Probably a setup….just like the discredited actions that led to the Flynn plea deal. People working behind the scenes to create the apperance of a Russian conspiracy involving Trump.
        
        5 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 4:00pm
      - dcrane
        
        So millions of Mueller dollars, powerful subpoenas, FBI (and probably CIA) spying/wiretapping powers, the entire 4th estate and who knows how many governments out to prove Trump a traitor….and nobody comes up with even a specific idea of what the conspiracy/collusion was, or a quote of two people talking about the plot online or by phone – let alone a charge. It was all “stymied by Trump and Stone”.
        
        Talking to you Russiagate fans is like talking to die-hard GOPers about Iraq’s WMDs and the fraudulent case for the Iraq war.
        
        Of course the prosecutor cannot prove the negative and has no interest in doing so, especially when he’s on the establishments’ side.
        
        5 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 4:54pm
      - Batman
        
        Yeah, Stone was willing to go to jail to protect the information he had about what Trump knew and when. He went to jail and was then freed by the person who gained a direct benefit from Stone’s silence.
        
        That is the very thing which Trump should have been impeached for. As Mueller noted, Presidential obstruction is not a matter for the DoJ but a matter for the Congress.
        
        4 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 4:58pm
      - dcrane
        
        Batman, you just changed the subject. We were not talking about “obstruction” – this is the bait-and-switch that Russiagate fans always pull when they hit the wall while getting pressed for proof of the collusion conspiracy. Mueller found no evidence of collusion/conspiracy, stated he found no proof, charged nobody [in USA*] with any role in one, and then tossed the obstruction issue to Congress. Nancy Pelosi knew she wasn’t getting anywhere with that when the evidence showed the whole thing was a setup by the FBI, so she chose not to even prosecute that.
        
        *After the fact, Mueller charged some Russians with a facebook-based plot. But he ducked and ran when some of them showed up in US court to contest it. Well aftrerward the charges were dropped,
        
        4 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 5:54pm
- C J Southern
  
  Same old same old. If they have credible evidence then they need to present it to a court.
  
  The fact that no credible evidence has been presented – and no accusations of fraud made – have been made to any court in 50+ cases tells you all you need to know.
  
  5 13
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:23am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Several cases are on their way to the Supreme Court of the United States of America.
    
    The election is far from determined.
    
    13 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:00pm
    - SB2
      
      Looking forward to the inauguration of the 46th President of the US which won’t be the one term wonder Donald Trump.
      
      5 12
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:17pm
      - Surely Knott
        
        Don’t be so pessimistic SB2. Biden “won’t be a one term wonder”? Surely he can finish at least one term. Maybe half term wonder?
        
        6 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 1:54pm
    - C J Southern
      
      Yawn.
      
      This election was determined about 3 weeks ago. And since then NOTHING has changed.
      
      4 8
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:17pm
      - dcrane
        
        I rank about equally the people who were certain from the beginning that Donald Trump was cheated, and those who have been certain from the beginning that there was no significant cheating.
        
        4 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 1:59pm
muppeth8r

why is stuffed pandering to the brown brothers and doing the media version of kneeling for the cause?
Is there some sort of taxpayer handout available for doing so? What a way to drive out the last of their viewers that have tolerated their drivel this long.
go woke go… o wait theyre way past broke, fingers crossed for bankruptcy and collapse.
58 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:06am
- plc
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRNWBfQ0IbI
  
  3 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:48am
- tf78
  
  Isn’t taking the knee the same pose as shooting a gun – are they practicing for that.
  
  14 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:11am
- Nickc2
  
  and we have a politically motivated Climate Change Emergency FFS. No wonder she has us all locked down in the People’s Republic of Aotearoa. We have lost all means of escape.
  
  20 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:37am
- Rich Prick
  
  It’s fashionable. It’s also why the thing is worth $1.
  
  15 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:39am
Harriet

Boucher has been in the paper with regards Maori redress, and like everything else my guess is that future ownership and funding of $1uff will very soon be Maori.
40 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:07am
- igm
  
  Surely no self-respecting advertiser will want to be associated with that taxpayer-supported crap.
  
  35 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:35am
  - JackRabbit
    
    And they won’t. So those that do, will be labeling themselves accordingly.
    
    21 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:10am
    - Yabster
      
      I have read Stuff alot but over the years it becoming more an more left, socialist, feminist (A Mau) and woke- will be going elsewhere in future- no clicks no advertising revenue , no Stuff.
      
      9 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:28am
RiP NZ

Russian collusion – no evidence but indisputably true.

Election fraud with statistically, highly improbable outcome for Biden….completely false……cool, got it.

https://rattibha.com/thread/1332920839235399681?lang=en
23 9
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:12am
Nukuleka

Joe Biden is a practising Catholic- the msm have carried somewhat saccharine stories about how he carries with him at all time a set of rosary bead that belonged to his dead son Beau- so it could be expected that, as the psalms are read as part of each Catholic mass he attends he would know his Psalms pretty well. It was very odd therefore that during his Thanksgiving speech- read of course from a teleprompter- he twice referred to the psalmist who wrote the psalms as the ‘palmist’. The one-eyed Bidenistas on KB will, of course, put this minor gaffe down to his well- known speech impediment. Others, less charitably, might suggest that it is further evidence that some of the wires in Mr Biden’s brain are no longer connecting due to his declining mental powers.
34 8
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:15am
- mikenmildagain
  
  “Person, woman, man, camera, TV”
  Bet Biden couldn’t ‘pass’ that test.
  
  5 18
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:06am
- tf78
  
  Nukuleka – he’s just reading out what he sees not understanding the words.
  
  12 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:13am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    “Two Corinthians”
    
    2 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:51am
- kowtow
  
  He’s also happy to pose with murdering terrorists.
  
  Any time he goes to a military war memorial to acknowledge America’s allies also makes him a hypocrite.
  
  https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8922741/Picture-Joe-Biden-Gerry-Adams-IRA-chief-tried-kill-Army-officer-emerges.html
  
  9 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:11am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    This photo will really upset you then:
    https://www.publico.es/files/article_main/uploads/2017/12/08/5a2aeb8cf2954.jpg
    
    1 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:37am
  - SB2
    
    kowtow, didn’t stop Boris Johnson congratulating the President elect Joe Biden,
    
    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/europe/uks-boris-johnson-congratulates-joe-biden/2039212
    
    2 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:24pm
Benedict Yu

https://i.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/our-truth/300165985/our-truth-t-mtou-pono-stuffs-day-of-reckoning

This is going to result in many people vowing to never again use this outfit for their daily New Zealand news scanning. I am one of them.
69 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:19am
- Melbury
  
  If using Windows:
  1. Right click on Notepad and choose Run as Administrator
  2. Open the file C:\Windows\System32\drivers\etc\hosts
  3. Add the lines:
  127.0.0.1 stuff.co.nz
  127.0.0.1 www. stuff.co.nz
  4. Save, and enjoy!
  
  10 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:47am
  - Catgurl13
    
    There are also free apps you just paste the URL into all for free. Once app is downloaded it takes just 3 clicks to view any article for free.
    
    4 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:39am
- Saks
  
  Likewise.
  
  But can someone please recommend an actual source of news and sports that isn’t made by made virtue signaling woke apologists?
  
  I just want to know what’s happening, not that I am a piece of shit middle aged white guy that pays enough tax in a year to cover two beneficiaries worth of handouts…
  
  34 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:56am
  - Yabster
    
    lol best comment ever – I also am a piece of crap white educated male- I should be lined up and shot – only thing stopping them is I pay about $40k in taxes a year (I realise that means I have an inequitable salary and intend on flogging myself within an inch of my life, then attending a woke Treaty course so I can learn my place).
    
    15 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:33am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That would take mikenmildagain’s pre-approval.
    
    9 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:08pm
Paulus

We live in Tauranga and originally decided to got to both matches here.
When we heard that a knee drop was anticipated my son who is an avid cricketer said he (we) would not go as it was not cricket. We did not go.
Why will these people not grow up – it is not even the New Zealand way – the Maori haka is an embarrassment in the wrong place – often by school children as it appears that is all they learn at Primary School.
61 6
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:20am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’ve never heard of a “knee drop”. Is this something imported from the USA?
  
  17 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:48am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    “taking a knee”
    
    9 10
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:10am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yeah thanks – never heard of that either.
      
      12 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 9:46am
    - Inandout
      
      m&m. taking it where?
      
      5 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:05am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That’s what arthritis does.
      
      9 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:09pm
Maggie Pie

(LISTEN) 😛

President Trump on phone to Maria Bartaromo accuses Joe “….. of taking dumps. Big massive dumps”

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1333125663298113539
8 8
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:23am
- Simon
  
  An affidavit by Dr. Keshavarz-Nia described by the NYT as “the smartest man in the room”, a 35-year cyber-security expert for DIA, CIA, NSA, & DOD, concludes that 2020 election data was altered resulting in “hundreds of thousands” of Trump votes to be “transferred” to Biden
  
  https://twitter.com/kanekoathegreat/status/1332837417003323394
  
  #believe the experts
  
  23 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:34am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    When Bidet gets woken up in the morning does he even know who he is?
    “Hun, you’re President Elect!” He goes “Who are you?”
    
    17 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:22am
Jade Warrior

I visited the Stuff website this morning and couldn’t believe what I saw … an apology to Maori? A Treaty of Waitangi charter? Is Stuff determined to alienate as much of its readership as possible? Sigh.
77 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:24am
- krazykiwi
  
  This is Stuff’s desperation trajectory: Suck up to the funders and publish whatever propaganda they are directed to publish.
  
  It’s time National grew a pair and promised to cease all state funding and state ownership. It’s not like their MSM coverage could become less favourable.
  
  53 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:14am
- Catgurl13
  
  It’s just pure grandstanding by Stuff,they are desperate to appeal to the young woke generation.
  
  35 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:30am
  - hilaryt
    
    I watched a young guy pick up a Press in the supermarket just now but I didn’t see it in his trolley when he left again.
    
    10 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:07pm
    - Batman
      
      Damning evidence that The Press is doomed, right there.
      
      5 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:22pm
- Cobolt24
  
  That’s why I’ve switched my homepage to MSN, they’re not nearly as bad as $1uff is now.
  
  12 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:17am
  - emmess
    
    Still shit though
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:06pm
- RJ
  
  Stuff will be gone soon, they are failing to turn around the books, more financially stuffed without anything to back them.
  
  14 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:22am
- WaynelSexton
  
  Stuff has always been anti-Western propaganda
  
  8 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:40am
- Justitia
  
  It’s all part of Stuff’s collusion with the government. In this case they trying to divert attention from the government’s scandalous suppression of large parts of the Royal Commission report into the Christchurch shootings, and make you feel bad for being born white at the same time.
  
  18 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:12am
  - Batman
    
    This is paranoid.
    
    Correlation is not causation.
    
    4 15
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:19am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Justitia posts paranoid comment.
      News at twelve.
      
      0 12
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:38am
Sacha

We are not a nation of Public Protesters.
We let people have their say.
We tend ‘live and let live’.
We are very slow to be aroused to action.
It used to annoy me, but I finally learned that the bulk of our population has instinctive common sense and knows that this fad too, will pass.
25 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:24am
- tf78
  
  Unless, you’re using an outdoor hose!
  
  2 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:40am
Maggy Wassilieff

The Islamic Association of NZ is releasing its investigation into the Christchurch Terror Attack this morning, but already there have been reports on their conclusions and concerns:

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/christchurch-mosque-attack-police-admin-failure-allowed-terrorist-to-get-gun-licence-report.html

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/123545909/islamic-groups-investigation-to-reveal-structural-bias-of-government-agencies-prior-to-christchurch-terror-attack

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/duncan-garner-new-zealand-was-a-ticking-time-bomb-on-gun-licensing-and-no-one-did-a-thing-until-it-went-off.html
31 0
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:25am
- Simon
  
  Evidence given by ministers and public sector bosses to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Christchurch terrorist attack will be suppressed for 30 years.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch-mosques-terror-attack-evidence-suppressed-by-royal-commission-for-30-years/
  
  Government failure was so appalling they had to censor.
  
  37 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:39am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Has evidence given to previous Royal Commissions been suppressed?
    
    5 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:16pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes
      
      4 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:46pm
BeeJay

I can understand the need for Joe Biden to take dumps and most likely taking them more often! I’ve noticed it myself as I grow older, I tend to take a dump more regularly than when I was younger! So, no surprises there!
10 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:28am
Benedict Yu

Question for long time New Zealanders… Who came up with the “principles of the Treaty of Waitangi”? I looked up the Treaty and it doesn’t say anything about “principles”. Yet these “principles” are now everywhere. Were they decided by a court or are they made up by politicians or academics?
58 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:29am
- Cantabrian
  
  The ‘Principles’ came from Lord Cooke in 1987 when he was President of the Court of Appeal. They were embellished by Geoffrey Palmer in 1989. So all this nonsense is very recent. See here for a summary of the history: https://sites.google.com/site/treaty4dummies/home/treaty-principles
  
  40 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:44am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I believe Sir Robin Cooke, Geoffrey Palmer and the 4th Labour Government had a hand in deriving “ngā mātāpono o te tiriti”…..during the late 1980s.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principles_of_the_Treaty_of_Waitangi
  
  26 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:45am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Thanks so it was just something politicians came up with. Isn’t the idea of a Treaty that it is written and can be referred to? If politicians just add stuff to it there will be endless disputes about whether the Treaty is being complied with by the parties. What a mess. ?
    
    39 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 8:51am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes, I believe David Lange made it a ‘dynamic’ document. This gives pollies the ability to add, modify and delete any of the clauses they consider will best suit their reign over the PRoA (Peoples Republic of Aotearoa).
      
      12 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 9:58am
      - plc
        
        “Democratic” Peoples’ Republic of Aotearoa
        
        6 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:49am
- Simon
  
  State-Owned Enterprises Act 1986
  
  Section 9 Treaty of Waitangi
  Nothing in this Act shall permit the Crown to act in a manner that is inconsistent with the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi.
  
  ToW is a living constitution. It is whatever the left and other useless scum in Wellington come up with.
  
  In 2030 the ToW will mean you have to take the knee to show solidarity against your racism.
  
  Take the knee. Its in the ToW.
  
  32 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:46am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  This is what really kicked it off:
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_Maori_Council_v_Attorney-General
  
  Geoffrey Palmer put the phrase in legislation and Lord Cooke wrote the decision in the above case based on what he believed the principles to be.
  
  26 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 8:52am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Almost. As parliament neglected to specify the meaning of ‘the principles of the ToW’, the Court of Appeal was forced to define them when it became necessary in the SOE case. As, in response, no government has legislated anything differently, it is safe to assume that the court’s articulation represents a political consensus on what the Treaty means, practically, for modern government.
    
    10 11
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:13am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yeah well it still seems a mess.
      
      Much better to have it all written down:
      
      https://www.aph.gov.au/about_parliament/senate/powers_practice_n_procedures/constitution
      
      In Australia nobody talks about “the principles” of the Australian constitution.
      
      21 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 9:49am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Well, our constitution is a collection of laws, conventions, principles, and whatever. It seems to me that the Treaty, as interpreted by courts and successive governments, is very much part of our constitution.
        
        4 13
        Report
        November 30, 2020 9:53am
      - sooty
        
        How were the maori going to “write” it down?
        
        12 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 10:38am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Well, our constitution is a collection of laws, conventions, principles, and whatever.”
        
        I am aware. Most unfortunate.
        
        5 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:06pm
  - Unity
    
    The Treaty was originally filed away soon after it was signed because it was deemed to have fulfilled its purpose of bringing the natives under the same laws as everyone else. It was obviously so lacking in eternal respect that it is partly burnt and rat-eaten. It was deemed as finished at the time. Now it has been resurrected and means whatever anyone wants it to mean!!??
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 4:36pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The principles work like this:
  
  If the letter of the Treaty clause is favourable to Maori then the letter shall apply.
  
  If the letter of the Treaty clause is not overtly favourable to Maori then some ‘principle’ will be invented so that race-based favour is conferred.
  
  Another word to watch out for is ‘partnership’. It is never mentioned or inferred to in the Treaty, and it is constitutionally impossible for the Crown to enter into a partnership with any entity. Yet ‘partnership’ is trotted out whenever its felt useful for stoking liberal white guilt and/or increasing net benefit to Maoridom.
  
  37 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:22am
- Inandout
  
  BY, for ‘principles’ you will have to hark back to Doug Graham, you know that MP who wept when he signed the first Treaty deal. He resigned from National later to go on a ‘sabbatical’, presumably to find himself; or perhaps atone for what he had unleashed on the NZ taxpayer.
  
  13 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:35am
  - Batman
    
    Taxpayers which have benefited to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars from inappropriately acquired land.
    
    It is entirely correct that the Crown should settle the bill.
    
    4 24
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:15am
    - Yabster
      
      more b/s do you mean the land legitimately sold by Iwi (modern version of which is Shelly Bay) or are you referring to fill and final settlement Ngai Tahu has had three times?
      
      18 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:39am
    - Unity
      
      At the time we were run by NSW via Britain so even though all settlements were fully and finally settled long ago, how is it our responsibility and not NSW or Britain’s if there are any claims?
      
      3 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 4:38pm
      - Batman
        
        That is wrong. It is still for the Crown to deal with.
        
        4 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 5:01pm
  - plc
    
    Sabbatical = Serve on Board of dodgy Finance Company
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:50am
  - hilaryt
    
    Inandout…& he got into a spot of legal bother too I recall.
    
    8 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:14pm
chukar

Scott,
Don’t worry!
Because of the NZC deal with Spark most of us won’t be watching much cricket unless we put our hand still further in our pockets. Now Sky and Spark to watch cricket.
Who would bother to pay to watch the locals when we have ongoing access to the worlds best, as it was last night?
NZC can’t get much right.
12 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:30am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Lots of people will ditch Sky in favour of Spark during our cricket season. I have.
  
  8 8
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:14am
  - Inandout
    
    m&m, you do realise our SkyTV is not under the Aussie Sky ownership.
    https://www.sky.co.nz/about-us/board
    Could be important to your political views.
    
    1 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:28am
  - hookerphil
    
    I guess if you want to watch New Zealand, West Indies and Pakistan instead of Australia and India, go for it. I will not be bothering.
    
    6 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 10:54am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Amazingly, as a NZer, I want to watch the NZ team. I’ll switch back to Sky when the rugby is on again (maybe some overlap in Feb/Mar).
      
      5 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:41am
  - Paulus
    
    Or following the knee drop which we assume the New Zealand Team will adopt for every match now we will forgo all Cricket this season.
    
    8 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:03am
  - Nickc2
    
    Ar’nt Spark trying to sell off their sports contracts?
    
    1 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:49pm
  - Southtop2
    
    Was going to but they took a knee.
    Petty political crap.
    Now looking to change my phones from Spark.
    Any suggestions? – Vodafone is just as woke
    
    4 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:31pm
peterwn

See:
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/northland-police-apologise-ipca-making-enquiries-after-traumatised-teens-held-at-gunpoint-in-whang-rei-park.html

Police looking for armed offender – held young couple at gunpoint – made them lie on ground – they were still traumatised a week later.
Police have since apologised. The why’s and wherefores will come out at the IPCA enquiry. It is easy to criticise the Police for what happened, but because they were dealing with a potentially dangerous situation, the officers’ actions may have been excusable.
However innocent people have suffered psychological harm and have their mana trampled on. It has also no doubt affected how people view the police, especially those of similar age to those affected.
Regardless of rights, wrongs, or anything else, surely the young people who suffered at the hands of the police be paid immediately some meaningful compensation, say $10,000 each. This would go a long way towards healing relationships between the police and the young people involved. The loss of trust and confidence in the police resulting from this incident could well cost directly or indirectly $100,000 or more, and immediate payment of compensation could well pay for itself.
All that needs to be done if for Cabinet to decide in principle that such compensation can be payable and delegate to Superintendents the authority to make the payments.
12 11
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:32am
- Maggie Pie
  
  In the circumstances, isn’t it time we stood up for the Police in this matter and just move on Traumatised my bum.
  I can honestly say, that an incident of this type would ever take place in a local park with any teenagers of our aquaintance.
  TBH, they sound like a couple of real thicko’s to me.
  
  20 7
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:07am
  - mark15
    
    I think any instance of police threatening people with loaded guns requires scrutiny,otherwise fast forward x years and it will be normal.
    Which do you want?
    
    10 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:26am
    - fernglas
      
      The Police were responding to reports of an armed man. The male fitted the description. When he became unco-operative, he was restrained, then released when his identity had been established. Do we give people $10k every time that happened? As for the suggestion that the confrontation was due to racism, I suggest it was more likely due to the offender having the same ethnicity as the person who was apprehended. Perhaps if someone from the same ethnic group hadn’t been running around with a gun, this would never have happened
      
      12 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:00am
  - MCos
    
    I was waiting for a motorbike taxi outside our office in Bangkok one Saturday morning when two armed plain clothes police came along, frisked me and went through my bag.
    They found nothing and without a word jumped back on their bike and roared off.
    No ID, pointless complaining to anyone. Even the Thais at work just shrugged.
    Not a pleasant experience and there’d be shit to play if it regularly happened to 60yo white office workers in the Auckland CBD.
    Be more than the occasional sports team sympathizing.
    
    10 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:06am
- RJ
  
  Let’s see, reading the article. The police are shot at earlier in the day, they are told the shooter is in the park. They approach this couple because he matches the description, he is wearing a hoodie, he is asked to identify himself, he refuses and tells his mum on the phone he is going to run. Obviously an apology was needed, but not from the police, form the dick head who could of easily ended this whole thing by doing what the police asked him to do,
  
  17 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:20am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Here in the Avenue we’re part of Neighborhood Watch.
  If anyone is spotted wearing a hoodie the Police are notified immediately.
  
  9 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:33am
  - chukar
    
    The state is habitually armed ( Police ) the populace not.
    This is not going to help confidence and trust between us.
    Mistrust has started.
    
    3 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 5:25pm
  - chukar
    
    The state is habitually armed ( Police ) the populace not.
    This is not going to help confidence and trust between us.
    Mistrust has started
    
    3 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 5:51pm
Maggy Wassilieff

NZ Education system has been producing a bunch of functionally innumerate and illiterate young folk.

“The NCEA literacy requirement that we have at present did a very poor job of certifying the level of literacy that is required to be a fully functional citizen in the 21st century and I think that the new requirement is far better in that regard.”

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/431728/schools-warned-to-prepare-for-tougher-ncea-standards
23 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:34am
- Catgurl13
  
  It’s not just about NCEA content,it’s about parents not even sending their kids to school.
  
  10 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Sure that is a major problem… but I don’t think many parents realise that even if their child has Level 2 literacy units, it doesn’t count for much in the working world.
    
    The Tertiary Education Commission found 40 percent of teens with NCEA level 2 failed a basic adult literacy and numeracy test.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2020/11/academics-teachers-warn-of-tougher-ncea-standards.html
    
    10 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:27pm
    - Catgurl13
      
      Well.it way better than not going to school at all.
      
      4 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:44pm
Aunty

Hey, KB’s covidiots and ratlickers, you should check this out. This is no flu.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SJ8u3G73p-I
2 17
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:38am
- ISeeRed
  
  WTF is a “ratlicker”?
  
  6 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:38pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Polite way of saying ‘arse-licker’ ?
    
    4 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:40pm
KevO'Brien

The atmosphere is “saturated”. More can be better.
https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/11/29/slight-beneficial-warming-from-more-carbon-dioxide/

Forget the megalomaniacs emergency and UN job application.
17 8
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:41am
lazza

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Scott and others bitching about blm. Get over yourselves. How about ditching the thinly veiled racist rants in favour of a just and worthy cause… homelessness?… infanticide maybe?
6 40
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:46am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Or why black lives don’t matter mostly to blacks?
  
  22 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:24am
- tf78
  
  Iazza, don’t be ridiculous those elephants look really bad on the World sage.
  
  4 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:45am
lastmanstanding

Some random thoughts and questions.

1. The Government should let Maori sort out the problem with Maori babies being taken from Maori mothers and all the other problems with Maori kids. And using some of the hundreds of millions of dollars taxpayers have paid to Maori. Let Maori own the problems.

2. Heard Cindy on Mike H this morning. Is this the most patronising condescending Prime Minister this country has ever had.

3. Is the reason container ships are sitting in Auckland Harbour waiting to be unloaded down to Ports of Auckland not having trained the drivers of the new cranes.
35 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:58am
- hmmokrightitis
  
  Can I add a question please?
  
  [Mod: No, not that question]
  
  6 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:08am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    Spoilsport! 😀
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:10pm
- artemisia
  
  I expect we will see taxpayer funding increasingly diverted to Maori run organisations. Leaving aside who is Maori, I see no issue provided funding is tied to very tight KPIs and complete transparency about reporting and results.
  
  One not very large government Maori organisation I worked in had 4 cases of defalcation in the 2 years I was there. One seriously egregious taking money from Maori clients. One case involved a very well known name. Three cases were prosecuted, one was minor and dealt with as an employment issue (fired).
  
  13 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:10am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Oranga Tamariki already contract out a sizeable proportion of their services to Māori organisations.
    
    https://www.orangatamariki.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/About-us/Report-and-releases/Section-7AA-Report/Working-with-Iwi-and-Maori-Snapshot.pdf
    
    https://www.orangatamariki.govt.nz/assets/Uploads/About-us/Report-and-releases/Section-7AA-Report/S7AA-Improving-outcomes-for-tamariki-Maori.pdf
    
    20 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:53am
Alan Wilkinson

On the subject of meaningless apologies, are any of Stuff’s posturing woke writers actually apologising for anything they have done or written themselves or are they all just apologising for not censoring other people they now disagree with and promising more rigorous suppression in future?
43 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:01am
- david
  
  Just got back from the Chatham’s where we heard on the Marae about how some immigrant Taranaki Maori enslaved, killed and ate many of the local Moriori. This after the NZ Government had outlawed both slavery and cannibalism, yet no action was taken and the tribes involved received land settlements of much greater proportion than the original inhabitants.
  Colonialism? You betcha but this time the Maori were the colonists and as yet there has been no been no apologies redress or settlements from the two Taranaki Iwi.
  The two faces of Maoridom on display.
  
  8 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 5:33pm
  - Jack5
    
    The massacre of Moriori on the Chathams by Taranaki Maori occurred in 1835, which was before the Treaty of Waitangi, and thus before there was a New Zealand Government.
    
    3 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 7:28pm
I remember when

Perhaps when the first Maori landed at the Kermadecs, they stuck a little flag in the ground and claimed it on behalf of the ‘Maori King’!
15 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:01am
Alan Wilkinson

It’s still annoying that fixing a missing space in a comment sends it to moderation. Nuts.
13 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:04am
- Pharmachick
  
  Oh, don’t do that, I long got over that one. Pro tip: just reply to yourself with a correction.
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:43am
budgieboy

I don’t read The Spectator – the headlines seem to suggest they lean Trump… initially when I read this I thought it might be a pro dem writing and offering some balance but I’m not so sure now… gawd wouldn’t it be nice to get information without having to factor in the publications bias?

Maybe you think Donald Trump is a bit of a dick, maybe you think Jo Biden is a bit of a dick. But if the way you view the US election is based on how much of a dick you think the other guy is you might be missing something.

This is worth reading….

https://spectator.us/reasons-why-the-2020-presidential-election-is-deeply-puzzling/
17 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:08am
- Fletch
  
  I read it. If anyone looks at the election dispassionately, it just isn’t possible that Biden won. The election results go against every expected historical norm. Even one of them is improbable, but ALL historical indicators?? If Biden were a young, dynamic up-and-comer, perhaps it would even be possible, but not this old, white curmudgeon, who held rallies barely attended and who hid in his basement most of the year.
  
  As the article points out –
  
  Despite poor recent performances, media and academic polls have an impressive 80 percent record predicting the winner during the modern era. But, when the polls err, non-polling metrics do not; the latter have a 100 percent record. Every non-polling metric forecast Trump’s reelection. For Trump to lose this election, the mainstream polls needed to be correct, which they were not. Furthermore, for Trump to lose, not only did one or more of these metrics have to be wrong for the first time ever, but every single one had to be wrong, and at the very same time; not an impossible outcome, but extremely unlikely nonetheless.[..]
  
  If you think that only weirdos have legitimate concerns about these findings and claims, maybe the weirdness lies in you.
  
  If the roles were reversed, if Trump were ahead in the midst of all these improbabilities, the media would be jumping up and down about it every day – not letting up. There’s no way Biden won.
  
  19 6
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:06am
  - Batman
    
    Biden won. The numbers don’t lie. People hate trump and he lost as a result.
    
    Get over it. Roll on 14 December!
    
    7 24
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:08am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      The most telling indication of no fraud was the unexpected success of republicans in the down-ballot race. Millions of Americans voted for republican senators and representatives, yet could not bring themselves to vote for Trump as well.
      It beggars belief that the democrats could have rigged the presidential election but somehow forgot to do the same for the senate and house races.
      
      7 16
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:15am
      - Batman
        
        Or maybe it was the Dems playing 5D chess all along, and not Trump?
        
        The perfect crime!
        
        Exit, stage left!….
        
        4 15
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:19am
      - Fletch
        
        MM, that’s just it – it never happens that a party gets so many more House and Senate representatives and their candidate doesn’t become president. Yet another indication of fraud.
        
        17 4
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:27am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Sure Fletch, forgetting to rig the whole election is proof of the conspiracy…
        
        4 14
        Report
        November 30, 2020 11:44am
  - C J Southern
    
    You need to get this compelling evidence to their legal team ASAP as they’ve not been able to find anything so far …
    
    4 6
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 2:17pm
- Inandout
  
  I use the ‘Jacinda’ principle wherby she was obviously very popular in public areas when she went walkabout; attracted a crowd and she won the election. Biden on the other hand could barely fill a carpark. Something doesn’t quite gel here.
  
  13 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:14am
  - MCos
    
    The Labour Party won the election.
    This time last year Ardern was far more popular than Bridges, the Nats were more popular than Labour & an election which would have been reflected in an election.
    Along came covid-19, which Labour responded to in a way that saw their popularity soar & the Nats plummet.
    Ardern polled much the same; a bit better.
    
    Jacinda Ardern was very popular prior to the previous election too, but National under the bland Bill English did much better than Labour.
    
    8 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:13pm
- oldfella
  
  BB, that is really interesting. A very clearly laid out take on what happened, and why there are still big questions hanging over the US elections.
  
  8 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:17am
I remember when

Section of SH1 between Ashley River and Kaiapoi has been described as ‘one of the most notorious roads’ in region by NZTA.
There have been 6 deaths and 33 serious injuries on the road between 2009 and 2018.
From the 15th December, reductions in speed of up to 40 kmph will be introduced.
This will result in motorists travelling through seven different speed zones on this stretch of highway.
16 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:12am
- barnacle bill
  
  I have lived in this area for my whole life, I really don’t know why there are so many accidents.
  Apart from the bridge over the Ashley river, there is nothing difficult about the road at all.
  
  I do think that creating artificially slow zones don’t help at all, as all it does is frustrate drivers to the point where they plant the boot once on the open road, like between Woodend and Kaiapoi.
  
  You could walk through Woodend faster than the speed limit now.
  
  14 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:01am
- sooty
  
  Speed traps and lots of infringement notices!
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:43am
I remember when

The problem with ‘bending the knee’ is that the action becomes a potential form of bullying itself.
Are you actually ‘taking a knee’ because you believe in the cause or are you a victim of peer pressure?
We all know that it is wrong to bow to peer pressure and we must learn to stand on our own moral values.
Is there anything that allows less freedom of choice than a pre-determined ‘team bending the knee’?
We all agreed beforehand!! Yeah right.
Ever been at a union vote.
38 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:25am
lifesgood

Does anyone know who I should address a letter of complaint to re the “taking of the knee” (horrible phrase) by the cricket team? I am utterly disgusted by this senseless gesture. The team needs to be educated about what BLM stands for, they clearly have no idea. I would like to write to the senior management of the team but don’t know who they are.
25 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:29am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Try an email to [email protected] attentioned to David White, CEO New Zealand Cricket
  
  21 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:34am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    David White should change his name to David Black
    
    22 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 9:40am
- JibberJabber
  
  Why bother? Cricket is more worthless and boring than Golf.
  
  [Mod: This is bordering on hate speech!]
  
  16 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:47am
  - JibberJabber
    
    ?
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:15pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    JJ – apparently the truth stings some people 🙂
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:18pm
  - MCos
    
    The moderators get a rough time on this blog from some entitled contributors who seem to think they should always be at the ready with their pencils sharpened to give their priceless contributions the big tick.
    In this case I think no right, left or centre minded person could have anything, but the highest praise for this timely contribution.
    
    7 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:24pm
  - dcrane
    
    +1 for Mod
    
    5 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 2:17pm
surfing

I trust that stuff employees will hand their property titles and car keys to oppressed maori people.

Otherwise, are they not just virtue signalling?

My partner is racist. Not because she does racist things (she doesn’t), but, because her job as a nurse deems her to be racist.
29 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:41am
- rockape
  
  Ditto, my wife’s a nurse, treats all her patients equally. That’s racist!
  
  22 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:17am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Equal treatment ensures equality of opportunity, but not equality of outcome.
    To ensure equality of outcome, you must not treat people equally.
    
    13 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:55am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING NOW…
Just a reminder to the group that ‘The Real Housewives of Auckland’ will be back on your screens early next year.
Here’s just a wee taste on TikTok with the fab Gilda doin’ her thang with a chicken over at Michelle’s house.
ENJOY 😛

https://twitter.com/rhoakl2020/status/1332650220690104328
10 6
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 9:42am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Have you given up on your grooming this year, Maggie Pie?
  https://www.theguardian.com/fashion/2020/nov/29/i-stopped-trying-to-control-my-body-the-women-who-gave-up-grooming-in-2020
  
  8 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:44am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Not me Maggs! As you can see from the article its more of a Pom and East European thing.
    
    7 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:04am
Catgurl13

We wonder why our standard of living in NZ is so low,when the very people in charge of housing people in need won’t step up and do their job. They can easily get rid of these gangs types sighting antisocial behavier and damage to property.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300168949/nobodys-going-to-chase-us-away–82yearold-stands-strong-in-face-of-gang-neighbours
14 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 10:10am
Maggy Wassilieff

Our indecisive Prime Minister

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/431737/australia-plans-wto-action-against-china-over-tariffs-jacinda-ardern-not-taking-sides-yet

I thought Nanaia Mahuta was going to kõrero with the Chinese..
22 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 10:22am
- SB2
  
  If Austalia jumps we jump?
  
  If China jumps we jump?
  
  4 10
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:34am
  - lilman
    
    Bloody Aussie needs to build a bridge.
    
    Put a Teddy Bear in their parliament Buildings.
    
    Jacinda speak for “”Im a bloody moron.”
    
    10 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:08pm
- sooty
  
  Going to sit on them, is she!
  
  9 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:46am
- tf78
  
  Maggy, and we all know why she isn’t.
  
  9 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern R. is not very bright but she’s got a few smarts including not antagonising China and ruining our trade.
  
  6 8
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:30pm
  - hilaryt
    
    Ha! Nobody could antagonise the Chinese more than their very own peoples!
    
    4 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 2:38pm
Greg Ettridge

Chinese diplomats should be made to drink Chinese wine, unless it has improved dramatically, one of the worst on earth. No tariff, the experience will be enough punishment to drive message home.
Bought a bottle labeled dry Ted in Urumchi, Ted hadn’t aged well.
14 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 10:45am
- Jack5
  
  It will get better.
  
  Evidence of making wine in China so far goes back 2100 years, though there’s evidence Chinese were fermenting some form of booze 9000 years ago.
  
  For the poem, Bring in the Wine, by one of China’s favourite poets, Li Bai, who lived 1300 years ago, go to this link.
  
  https://eastasiastudent.net/china/classical/li-bai-jiang-jin-jiu/
  
  9 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:27am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    If you are interested in Li Bai, you might want to get hold of one of my favourite author’s new book….
    
    “The Banished Immortal”
    https://www.bookdepository.com/Banished-Immortal-Ha-Jin/9780525562436?ref=grid-view&qid=1606597884802&sr=1-2
    
    6 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:17pm
- Inandout
  
  Greg, DDT and Carbryl does tend to spoil a good Chinese wine.
  
  3 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:53pm
Maggie Pie

Anyone else catch last nights episode of ‘Shark Lockdown’ on Discovery Channel?
Produced and directed by “……renowned Marine Filmmaker, Clarke Gayford’

To be honest, it was more ‘Finding Nemo’ than ‘Sharknado’. The scariest scene was a Black Back Gull sitting on the surface pecking at a Great White. The rest of it appeared to have been filmed in a bathtub, with special effects dubbed in later by Weta.
And what about that guy Kina? Get a haircut man!
It looks bloody ridiculous!!
12 5
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 10:54am
Maggy Wassilieff

Key Points from the Islamic Associations submission to the Royal Commission

New Zealand’s intelligence community failed to anticipate or plan for the terror attack because of an “inappropriate concentration of, or priority setting for, counter-terrorism resources on other perceived terrorism threats.”

The federation also claimed the terrorist would never have obtained a firearms license if officers had followed proper procedure, because his two referees did not meet police’s own criteria.

To obtain a firearms license, police must verify someone’s suitability by interviewing a spouse, partner or next of kin and someone over 20 years old who knows them well, but the federation claimed police interviewed two people the terrorist knew only through online gaming.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/chch-terror/431738/federation-of-islamic-associations-releases-submission-to-royal-commission-into-terror-attack
12 0
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 11:02am
- Catgurl13
  
  They are now claiming they are ongoing victims of racism now. Tarrant was a bumbling terrorist in the way he didn’t really adhere to any particular group even. He wasn’t even a right winger. He was an angry little mixed up man imported from Aussy, who just wanted fame, he wasn’t even a real big-time terrorist. He said he believed in communism which is actually left wing.
  
  14 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:09am
  - Batman
    
    You only need to see some of the comments on this blog to see the dark subtle intolerance of some New Zealanders.
    
    Luckily, they’re a minority and ageing out, to put it politely.
    
    4 33
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:22am
    - BananaLlama
      
      Must be why so many young support banning foreign buyers. Such tolerance.
      
      14 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:30am
    - Jack5
      
      C’mon Batman, you’re better than that. The use of “luckily” implies you’re pleased a segment of the population is dying out.
      
      Surely, a true believer in the worthwhile principle of tolerance, must tolerate the intolerant.
      
      16 6
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:36am
    - Yabster
      
      woke Batman – should that not be Bat person? You are letting the side down there.
      
      15 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:45am
      - Batman
        
        Your comment shows your lack of knowledge about the topic.
        
        It is entirely acceptable to identify as a man. It is the individuals’ right to identify as such that matters.
        
        Therefore, I identify as Batman ?
        
        7 12
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:12pm
      - Jack5
        
        It’s a matter of choice to regard gender as a matter of choice.
        
        Gender affects others in matters as mundane as public lavatories, clothing store changing rooms, and in matters as important as prison security.
        
        From the group, or public, perspective, gender cannot be solely a matter of personal choice.
        
        8 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:31pm
      - Yabster
        
        “It is entirely acceptable to identify as a man. It is the individuals’ right to identify as such that matters”
        
        If that’s not woke what is woke Batman- you must hate going to a public toilet huh?
        
        10 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:35pm
    - Catgurl13
      
      Just maybe Batman you might know something about the so called terrorist before posting?.Some of us actually bothered to find out a bit and it wasn’t what is being touted in the media.
      
      11 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 11:53am
      - Batman
        
        I read it.
        
        You’ve chosen to believe the disingenuous lies about him based on a couple of references in what is otherwise a standard far-right, white supremacist terrorist rant, and supports a white ethno-state (with a fascist ideation of ‘the nation’ as the centre).
        
        [Mod: Comment edited. Two week ban implemented.]
        
        3 12
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:08pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Tarrant’s manifesto is close to lunatic.
        
        12 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:34pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    ‘ He said he believed in communism which is actually left wing.’
    
    Tarrant said, in his manifesto, that he wanted to put a boot in the face of Marxists. That doesn’t seem like much of an endorsement of communism to me. He pointed to Oswald Mosley, the leader of the British Union of Fascists, as a hero. Mosley fought against communists on the streets of Britain, most famously in the Battle of Cable Street. I wouldn’t expect a supporter of communism to empathise with him.
    
    ‘he wasn’t even a real big-time terrorist’
    
    He killed 51 people. If that’s small-time terrorism, I’d hate to see what big-time looks like.
    
    13 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 11:55am
    - Jack5
      
      Was Tarrant coherent enough to fit any political ideology?
      
      13 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:24pm
      - Batman
        
        He was all over the place but certainly had clear themes.
        
        6 4
        Report
        November 30, 2020 12:31pm
      - BananaLlama
        
        He was a follower of James Mason. I really don’t want to give Masons ideology any more oxygen than this post. They are not Lunatics but they are fucking dangerous.
        
        10 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 1:00pm
      - Jack5
        
        James Mason? I thought BananaLlama was taking the Mickey by citing the British film actor who played Rommel in “The Desert Fox”.
        
        But, lo .. there is another James Mason, a sinister one:
        
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Mason_(neo-Nazi)
        
        5 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 1:29pm
      - BananaLlama
        
        Send that link to professor spoon(ly)head at Massey U, maybe he could actually earn his pay for once.
        
        3 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:51pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      “Tarrant said, in his manifesto, that he wanted to put a boot in the face of Marxists.”
      
      Perhaps Tarrant is a Maoist…. They don’t like Marxists either.
      
      8 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:10pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        You’re a bit confused there Odakyu-sen – you won’t find Mao attacking Marx in any of his texts. Maoists regard Mao as the fifth great figure in Marxist history, after Marx, Engels, Lenin, and Stalin.
        
        5 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 2:06pm
      - SB2
        
        “Perhaps Tarrant is a Maoist…. They don’t like Marxists either”
        
        What an odd comment!
        
        1 8
        Report
        November 30, 2020 2:51pm
  - Engelbert Humperdink
    
    Well, before it was forbidden to read, anyone could read that Tarrant admired the ChiComs above all other governments. Also spent much of his inheritance on travel to Turkey, Pakistan and North Korea. Not much of a white supremacist then… despite the Govt-sponsored BS narrative.
    
    15 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:21pm
    - Batman
      
      He admired those governments because they have strong fascist elements which glorify ‘the nation’ over outsiders on a racial basis.
      
      That’s why he looked to them. He wanted to highlight the “need” for a supposed white state to prevent being replaced by muslim people.
      
      Yes, he was nuts… And an idiot.
      
      7 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 12:25pm
    - Scott Hamilton
      
      On the contrary, there’s a long history of white supremacists admiring both North Korea and China, on account of their national chauvinist policies. Kerry Bolton, who is probably NZ’s best-known neo-Nazi, has praised the Juche ideology of North Korea. North Korea itself has repeatedly hosted American neo-Nazis and put them on state TV.
      
      5 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 2:10pm
      - Batman
        
        Same point as mine but said with rather more ooompf behind it. Thanks Scott!
        
        3 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:33pm
  - SB2
    
    ‘He said he believed in communism which is actually left wing.”
    
    ???
    
    2 13
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:33pm
  - MCos
    
    “Tarrant was a bumbling terrorist”
    
    One thing he most certainly wasn’t. A bumbling terrorist would have tripped on his shoelaces and shot himself getting out of his bloody car.
    
    Here’s an example of a bumbling terrorist, who, btw, was exchanged last week for a western hostage.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-17026007
    
    7 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:35pm
    - Jack5
      
      Or Otago’s bumbling jihadi, Mark John Taylor (a.k.a. Abu Abdul-Rahman), who gave away his and his ISIS comrades’ position by using his cellphone:
      
      https://time.com/3651559/new-zealand-isis-twitter/
      
      11 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:21pm
- coge
  
  There are many unanswered questions. For instance how did Tarrant financially support himself while living in NZ?
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:17pm
  - SB2
    
    Proabably and likely worked here and there. Or funded by extreme far right groups
    
    0 21
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:36pm
    - Swifty
      
      Wrong on both claims.
      
      Do you ever check your facts before you write, or do you just tap away what ever floats into your mind?
      
      11 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 2:25pm
  - MCos
    
    He was independently wealthy from an inheritance.
    
    12 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:40pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      His father died of mesothelioma – age 49
      Tarrant wrote that he inherited money consequent to his father’s death..
      About a year after his father’s death Tarrant introduced himself to Aussie Stock Forums, saying he had came into the ownership of about $500,000.
      
      “Recently came into contact with a bit of capital due to the passing away of my father.
      
      “Really don’t want to lose the money as he paid for it with 30+ years of his life,” his introductory post said.
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/424269/a-loner-with-a-lot-of-money-a-look-into-the-christchurch-mosque-gunman-s-past
      
      (possibly a life insurance pay-out or an industry-related payout for his father being exposed to asbestos)
      
      14 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:12pm
    - coge
      
      Is there evidence he was actually living off this inheritance? Was this looked at very deeply? I’m not suggesting he was funded by third parties, but it all seems a little too perfect. (Only financially speaking)
      
      5 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:39pm
      - HeatherW
        
        BT’s other version is that he got lucky with Bitcoin.
        
        5 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 5:10pm
Jack5

Maori quotas, and soon Muslim quotas?

The Federation of Islamic Associations in its submission to the Royal Commission into the Christchurch mosques massacre criticises what it sees as in a lack of diversity in the NZ intelligence network, and also talks of the Woke’s mysterious “institutional racism”.

The association in its submission says:

Muslim communities were left “defenceless” because of the “systemic failures over decades to recruit, develop, and promote ethnically and religiously diverse staff that reflect the changing demographics, values, experiences and perspectives of Aotearoa New Zealand.”

Institutional racism in some organisations was also highlighted, with the federation stating the country’s intelligence network “is not necessarily immune to this enduring structural issue in Aotearoa New Zealand.”

Notice the use of the Woke’s “Aotearoa New Zealand” rather than the official name of our country.

First it was Maori quotas. Now Muslims, who form 1.1 per cent of the population, want quotas?

If there’s a need for diversity and quotas in any aspect of New Zealand, it’s in intake of refugees. This, following UN strategy, is pro-Islam.

Christians, and other minority religions such as that of the Yazidis, are the most cruelly persecuted people in the Middle East, but we take scarcely any of them as refugees (see link below).

Similarly with Burma/Myanmar, where the Christian peoples have been persecuted for more than half a century. Extremely few of these Christian refugees, who are in Thailand by the scoeres of thousands have been taken in by NZ.

Now the gentle Buddhists of Burma/Myanmar are persecuting the Muslim minority, the the Rohingyas, expect them to be big in New Zealand’s refugee quota.

How the UN (and NZ) discriminated against Iraq’s persecuted Christians:

https://nzcatholic.org.nz/2017/03/20/iraqs-christian-refugees-face-double-discrimination/
20 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 11:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Muslims wanting preferment.
  
  10 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:37pm
- SB2
  
  Jack5, any submissions/petitions presented to former governments in respect of quotas for Yazidis. & ME Christians?
  
  If not why not?
  
  1 11
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:39pm
  - Jack5
    
    If you can use Google, you could look it up, Stephie.
    
    7 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 3:18pm
Maggie Pie

Shit it’s gotten cold all of a sudden. Just came back inside to ditch the shorts and pull up some jeans.
18 6
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 11:14am
- RJ
  
  Yeah, this weather is not great for the gardens. Well the rain is but the frost a few weeks ago killed all the fruit on the fruit trees.
  
  7 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:50am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Did you feel the need to comment on it? Seems like you have too much time on your hands.
  
  3 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 11:53am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Don’t Fret Bubba. What part of the country are you in as a matter of interest?
    
    5 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:21pm
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Auckland
      
      1 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:43pm
  - Fletch
    
    There’s a song called that, by Styx…
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5XcKBmdfpWs
    
    5 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 12:40pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Mind you, good to know what it is.
      I’ve been trying to get it off all morning 😛
      
      5 5
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:19pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Maggie – wrong usage. You either;
        ‘ get it on’ or ‘have it off’. – it shouldn’t take that much time. 😉
        
        1 4
        Report
        November 30, 2020 1:53pm
Scott Hamilton

I gather some people at Kiwiblog are upset by Stuff’s decision to apologise for the racism that is part of its newspapers’ history. Leaving aside more recent periods, I do a lot of research using the online Papers Past archive, which collects newspapers published between 1840 and 1950.
Not every paper is guilty of bigotry – the New Zealander, for example, which was published by the progressive colonial politician John ‘Carbuncle Jack’ Williamson took stands in the 1860s against the invasion of the Waikato and the southern side of the US Civil War (most NZ papers supported the Confederates).

But certainly the racism in most newspapers is extreme, and easy to find. As an example, take an article the NZ Herald ran in 1870 about the importation of ni-Vanuatu slaves to Auckland on the schooner Lulu, a ship owned by some of the city’s prominent businessmen. These slaves were put to work in flax mills in the Waitakeres, Thames, and the Hokianga. The NZ Herald’s article was called ‘Disgusting Results of Imported South Sea Labour’, and was published on September 21 1870. It calls the ni-Vanuatu workers ‘niggers’, ‘savage garbage gatherers’, and the ‘lowest form’ of humanity. The NZ Herald opposes the importation of these slaves not because of any principled opposition to human bondage, but because they are allegedly offensive to the eyes of whites.

The racism against not only Maori but Asians is easy to find in newspapers, well into the 20th century. If you search Papers Past for the headline ‘Hindoo Menace’ you get many responses. You can find numerous papers cheering on laws like the Suppression of Tohunga Act, which banned Maori religion and sent traditional healers to jail, as well as articles celebrating the catastrophic decline in Maori population in the late 19th century and predicting the extinction of the people.

It seems to me entirely reasonable for Stuff to point to this history in our newspapers, and to feel regretful about it. A mature culture should be able to remember the bad as well as heroic parts of its past.
10 15
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 11:50am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  “…the catastrophic decline in Maori population in the late 19th century…”
  
  The 19th century writer would have meant “people of pure Maori ancestry” when commenting about the Maori population.
  Today, how many “people of pure Maori ancestry” are alive in this country?
  
  16 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:20pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    ‘The 19th century writers would have meant “people of pure Maori ancestry” when commenting about the Maori population’
    
    No, they wouldn’t – by the late 19th century there had already been considerable admixture between Pakeha and Maori, thanks to the whalers and sealers who settled in Maori communities and took wives early in the century and later the many Pakeha traders and other adventurers who settled into Maori communities. Polynesian cultures have generally not been obsessed with the nonsensical idea of ‘pure’ ancestry, which belongs to 19th century European ideology.
    
    2 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:54pm
- Engelbert Humperdink
  
  SH: You confuse ‘upset’ with ‘laughingly despise’.
  
  11 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:22pm
- Jack5
  
  Stuff’s charter is Woke nonsense. The grovelling apology to Maori, in English and Maori, is the delirium of a financially strapped, doomed organisation.
  
  If newspapers are to survive in regional New Zealand, local groups need to pick up the pieces from Stuff. They need to go back to what Stuff was moulded from: small, locally owned, regional newspapers.
  
  Some could print in Maori language if that is what readers and advertisers want, some could print in English, some might be able to print in both.
  
  Stuff has pinned its hopes on donations from the Woke and subsidies from the State. A desperate strategy, and in my humble opinion, a wild hope.
  
  17 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:47pm
  - Inandout
    
    Plunkett had a Stuff owner on about Maori apologies and he was patheticly woke. Not surprisingly this will lose Stuff a lot of subscribers. When will they ever learn?
    
    9 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:58pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Public Media in NZ is heading for a major restructure
    http://business.scoop.co.nz/2020/11/03/reappointment-of-kris-faafoi-minister-of-broadcasting-and-media/
    
    Stuff is just positioning itself to be on the receiving end of taxpayer $$$$$.
    
    9 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 3:06pm
    - Jack5
      
      Yes, we will likely get:
      
      1. A merger of TVNZ and Radio NZ.
      
      2. Still tighter synchronising of these with Maori TV and the tribal radio network.
      
      3. Some formal State investment or financially stabilising arrangement with Stuff.
      
      4. Widening of State subsidies now flowing to regional newsprint coverage through the scheme administered by Radio NZ.
      
      5. Development of the co-operation deal between State-financed Maori TV and NZME (NZ Herald, NewstalkZB, regional North Island newspapers).
      
      With these come web sites that can be linked into a powerful online group.
      
      It all builds towards Soviet scale State control of the news media.
      
      The sad thing is that National when in Government turned a blind eye and let the aggregation begin with the Radio NZ-tribal network coup led by the now Labour Minister Wily Willie Jackson.
      
      7 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 3:25pm
- Yabster
  
  yeah and back 1385 the bad men (English) came and invaded Scotland as I have Scottish ancestors I demand an apology from the Queen, actually the Normans invaded England in 1066 so I demand an apology from the French- but actually Normandy was invaded by the Vikings so its those bad men I demand and apology from.. oh wait …
  
  18 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:48pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Maybe these is some sense of proportion required. Take NZ as an example:
    Pardoning Arthur Allan Thomas
    Pardoning the executed WWI soldiers
    State apology to Chinese for government racism
    Redress for grievances dating as far back as 1840
    Seek an apology from the British government for Captain Cook’s killings in 1769
    Are any or all of these justified?
    
    3 14
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:21pm
    - Yabster
      
      yeah then England seek and apology from The Don for the killing of Captain Cook in 1779 (or should that be an apology from Maori as it was their ancestors supposedly? Maybe wanting for a while for Maoridom to apologise for anything), of course the Don will then turn around and say “Your Fired” and ask for an apology from the poms for all the deaths due to the war of Independence from 1775… or is there a cut off point in this merry go round of the woke lefties ?
      
      5 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:58pm
      - Batman
        
        We’re sticking to New Zealand here. Nice little side step though
        
        4 5
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:35pm
      - Yabster
        
        why are we sticking to NZ woke Batman- was it not the English who co signed the Treaty- if we are sticking to NZ as you say the Treaty has nothing to do with NZ then if we follow your logic- I like it well done Woke Batman
        
        7 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 3:56pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        ‘or should that be an apology from Maori [for killing Cook] as it was their ancestors supposedly?’
        
        It’s amazing how many Pakeha think that Hawai’i means Hawai’iki. A moment’s reflection ought to tell you that Aotearoa wasn’t settled from Hawai’i…
        
        2 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 4:37pm
    - Scott Hamilton
      
      I think there’s a parallel between the post-election denialism of Trump supporters and the attempts to evade the obvious fact that many NZ newspapers were extremely racist for decades. The facts are obvious, but for ideological reasons some don’t want to acknowledge them. If we don’t acknowledge our personal mistakes, then we end up with a personality like Trump’s. And we should have the maturity to acknowledge historical faults in our institutions, too. Part of being a mature human involves acknowledging that your particular group is imperfect. We’re not talking about individuals today feeling guilty, or beating themselves up – we’re talking about acknowledging history. This isn’t of course a problem that’s limited to Pakeha – it’s almost universal amongst humans. When I was on Chatham Island in July I talked with Ngati Mutunga descendants of the army that invaded the island in 1835. They tried to downplay that ugly bit of history using exactly the same tricks I’ve noticed my conservative Pakeha relatives use when an event like the confiscation of the Waikato is mentioned. Perhaps there is something in our evolutionary history that makes us reluctant to admit faults in our particular group. It may have served a purpose once, but it has become a dangerous trait which we should strive to overcome.
      
      3 7
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:59pm
      - alphabeatrium
        
        My issue isn’t so much about being sorry _about_ those attitudes, but being sorry _for_ them, if you see my distinction. I believe that only a perpetrator is guilty of some crime or offense, and only he or she can express regret _for_ it. As an example: in WWII my grandfather took part in the bombing of Dresden, which is arguably an Allied war crime. I’m sorry _about_ that, but I cannot be sorry _for_ (i.e. on behalf of) my grandfather, since it happened decades before I was born.
        
        0 0
        Report
        December 3, 2020 11:13pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Thomas was current, justified and necessary, the rest not so much.
      
      7 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 2:07pm
- Jack5
  
  Scott Hamilton – Stuff was formed in the year 2000.
  
  How presumptuous of it to apologise for what New Zealand’s newspapers printed in the 150 years before that.
  
  24 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:54pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    How about the newspapers now part of the Stuff group?
    
    4 14
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:15pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They’re stuffed too.
      
      9 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 3:33pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Exactly. Apologising for what other people did is both insincere and meaningless. The only thing that counts is what you do now. The quality of that will ultimately be judged by others, not yourself. The rest is just advertising.
    
    21 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:28pm
    - MCos
      
      Doesn’t stop the demand for Muslims the world over to condemn the actions of some fanatical adherents of the religion who kill people in Paris or London.
      
      7 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 1:57pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    But many of the papers that are part of Stuff go way back, Jack – and as an institution Stuff can apologise for their racism, in the same way that the Crown has apologised for various egregious acts in NZ’s past.
    
    5 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:49pm
    - Jack5
      
      Scott, there is no end to official apologies in recent years. The more made, the less impact each has.
      
      Stuff, as an institution formed in 2020, cannot meaningfully apologise for language and statements used by newspapers as long as 150 years earlier.
      
      If there’s an apology by Stuff, it should be for fucking the newspaper industry south of Auckland by its Wokeness and Leftism.
      
      6 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 4:39pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        I disagree, Jack. The most recent Crown apology that I know about was to Moriori when they had their Treaty settlement last year. The Crown, represented Andrew Little, apologised for rubber stamping the Ngati Mutunga invasion of the Chathams by awarding them more than 90% of the islands’ land in the 1870s, and they apologised for misrepresenting Moriori as a pre-Maori Melanesian people via materials given to generations of NZ schoolchildren.
        
        This apology was received emotionally. It certainly didn’t lack impact.
        
        1 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 6:59pm
      - Jack5
        
        What else could the Government do but apportion land on the basis of occupation when the Treaty of Waitangi was signed?
        
        It would have been a precedent for trying to decide who really was entitled to land that was fought over, seized, lost, or regained in the years before the Treaty.
        
        1 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 7:40pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Means nothing. Are they going to pay damages now? Didn’t think so. So actually they are not identifying and accepting institutional responsibility.
      
      Neither would a court – other than the Waitangi Tribunal which would of course jump at the chance.
      
      1 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 7:29pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        The Crown did pay damages Alan – have a look at its settlement with Moriori.
        
        Jack claims that the Crown had no choice but to give land title to Ngati Mutunga in 1870 because that iwi controlled much of Chatham Island in the aftermath of their 1835 invasion and conquest. But Jack is mistaken. Almost all Ngati Mutunga left the island in the 1860s, after a series of disasters. By 1870 Moriori, terribly depleted as they were, outnumbered Ngati Mutunga. But Ngati Mutunga came back for the Land Court hearings in 1870 and were given almost all the land they had abandoned. It was a completely unjust decision that forestalled a Moriori cultural revival, and it was quite possibly motivated by a cynical desire to get Ngati Mutunga out of Taranaki, where they were joining Maori rebels against the Crown.
        
        0 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 9:49pm
- oob
  
  This is pure revisionist bullshit.
  
  The use of the term “slave” or even “indentured” is grossly offensive and thoroughly inaccurate.
  
  6 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:51pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Why do you say that?
    
    2 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 3:56pm
    - oob
      
      Because it’s the truth, Milky.
      
      The only practitioners of slavery in the entirety of NZ history were the Maori. This here is a shallow attempt at muddying the waters by attributing blame unfairly to Caucasians.
      
      6 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 4:45pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Please see Scott’s explanation below.
        
        1 4
        Report
        November 30, 2020 6:13pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        You’re simply wrong about that oob. The captain of the Lulu published an account of his expedition to Efate in search of labour in the NZ Herald, in which he explained that ‘douceurs’, eg bribes, were offered to chiefs after labour proved impossible to acquire by ordinary means. The chiefs then kidnapped men for the Lulu. NZ was massively represented in the slave fleet that cruised the Pacific. For one example of this, see Bruce Munro’s article in the ODT back in 2017: https://www.odt.co.nz/lifestyle/magazine/chained-sorry-trade
        
        1 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 6:45pm
      - Jack5
        
        Sadly, white New Zealand played a small part in the trade in trading of slaves, mainly Melanesian, but white New Zealanders did not enslave Maori.
        
        Maori slave ownership was on a substantial scale, and occasionally whites were among the slaves.
        
        The story of Maori enslavement of whites:
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-pakeha-slave-captured-by-maori-as-a-child/O5U6Q6EGI6KB6X5FPSKV5DKYP4/
        
        4 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 7:49pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    On the contrary, ‘slave’ is the word that was used by the media and in the NZ Assembly to describe the ni-Vanuatu men brought to NZ by the Lulu. They were victims of the same Pacific slave trade that depopulated the Tongan island of ‘Ata and sent thousands of Polynesians to die in Peru. NZ was deeply involved in this trade, as I show in my book The Stolen Island, which was published by Bridget Williams in 2016.
    
    6 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 4:41pm
    - Scott Hamilton
      
      An older and impeccable source, for anyone interested in the Pacific slave trade, is the writings of John Patteson, the first Archbishop of Melanesia. Patteson tirelessly campaigned against the slave trade, and at the Project Canterbury site his reports on the trade have been republished, cf http://anglicanhistory.org/nz/patteson/traffic1871.html
      
      4 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 6:41pm
      - Jack5
        
        Scott, without defending what was going on, it should be noted that in the Patteson piece you link to in your 6.41 post, Patteson says:
        
        Many of these men, whether they are technically and legally slavers or not, are acting in the spirit of slavers.
        
        2 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 8:20pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        Patteson and others recorded that not only were white men slaving in the Pacific – they were also headhunting. They killed islanders and sold their heads to chiefs of New Georgia, who liked to decorate their houses with skulls. Here’s a passage from John Moresby’s book The Cruise of Basilisk, in which he repeats a report of a raid by the white headhunters:
        
        ‘One lad from the Solomon group told me, with truth in his face, that he had seen his own brother’s head cut off by white men belonging to a schooner that ran down his canoe…
        
        Another…had seen five islanders beheaded by the crew of a brig…The heads of the murdered men were doubtless to be used in bartering for slaves or sandalwood, with chiefs who rate their greatness by the number of skulls they possess. It is difficult to believe such atrocities were common – but the evidence compels belief.’
        
        Patteson may have lost his life due to slavers. Because he was a popular figure, slavers began to dress up in priestly garb and wave Bibles from their ships, and thus lure islanders aboard. Patteson was killed on the island of Nukapu, which had recently suffered a slave raid. After Patteson’s death, mass meetings were held around NZ against the Pacific slave trade. Auckland’s Old Choral Hall was packed by one such meeting. Back then New Zealanders were aware of the slave trade. In the twentieth century, though, it would be largely forgotten.
        
        I see Patteson as an heroic figure – as the Wilberforce of the Pacific. As well as fighting slavery, he had a humane and inquisitive attitude towards the Pacific peoples he encountered – he did not insist they put on lots of clothes or give up dancing to become Christians. He learned Melanesian languages and became an expert on Melanesian cultures. There are a couple of memorials to him in Auckland churches, but I’d like to see a statue in one of our parks. Perhaps he could be depicted along with his close friend and collaborator George Sarawia, who was the first Melanesian Anglican priest.
        
        1 0
        Report
        November 30, 2020 9:42pm
      - Jack5
        
        A statue? Careful, Scott.
        
        BLM and Co. let the bees out. Theirs will be just the first of political waves to target statues: pulling them down, or defacing them, or painting them.
        
        0 0
        Report
        December 1, 2020 12:28am
    - Scott Hamilton
      
      ‘Sadly, white New Zealand played a small part in the trade in trading of slaves’
      
      It wasn’t a small part. At the end of 1868 John Thurston, British consul in Fiji, reported that nine NZ ships had recently called with human cargoes. That’s nine ships, in one short time period, in one of numerous places in the Pacific where slave labour was being used. My source for Thurston’s report is Angus Ross’ excellent 1964 NZ Aspirations in the Pacific in the 19th Century.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:06pm
- greybeard
  
  I imagine that the NZ news media during both the First and Second World Wars presented a very anti-German and anti-Japanese point of view, as they did against the Communists during many later worldwide confrontations.
  
  Does Mark Stevens intend to apologise to all Germans, Japanese and Communists for the views of the previous NZ news organisations which formed the basis for the current NZME / Stuff ?
  
  8 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 3:14pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    What is interesting is the way Germans were presented in the media, especially during WW1. They were characterised as the ‘Mongolians of Europe’ and the ‘Red Indians of Europe’ by the NZ Herald after the outbreak of the war. Evil was equated with non-European races
    
    6 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 4:43pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think the phrase “wogs begin at Calais” dates to around WWI.
      
      4 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 6:12pm
      - Jack5
        
        I feared you were going to post ” … begin at the northern edge of Cook Strait.””
        
        0 0
        Report
        December 1, 2020 12:13am
UrbanNeocolonialist

The Moderna vaccine that has been announced as being 90% effective was designed in two days, in January.

The last 10 months have been used in testing. During which time 1.5million have died as we wait for the vaccine to be shown to be safe.
10 4
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 12:03pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  A sinister plot to make Trump look bad…
  
  5 11
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 12:52pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    The cost and false promise of safety and the precautionary principle.
    
    7 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:59pm
- SB2
  
  Any Operation Warp speed vaccines trialed and made available?
  
  1 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:48pm
- MCos
  
  How many other vaccines were designed in two days”? Probably hundreds that turned out to be duds.
  Tadej Pogačar won the Tour de France. Why wasn’t he given first prize before it started? Maybe because there were 175 other contenders and nobody knew who would prevail at the end.
  It’s the same with the Moderna vaccine. Nobody knew at the start it would prevail and not actually crash out at the second bend.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:49pm
Fletch

A judge just issued an order not to wipe or reset the voting machines in Georgia. I bet I can guess what is going to happen next….
15 6
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 12:30pm
- fernglas
  
  I know, I know!!! The Judge is going to reverse the order because the plaintiff chose the wrong defendant!!!
  
  2 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:38pm
- SB2
  
  F letch, what exactly?
  
  2 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:44pm
- Batman
  
  Update: the judge has reversed this order. It is a software update not a wipe or reset.
  
  Another L in the Trump steal column
  
  6 11
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 3:11pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yeh, looks like the machines were updated inexplicably as soon as people were aware of the order. As I said, no surprise. Total corruption.
    
    GA officials performing “software update” on Fulton County voting machines at this very moment at World Congress Center.
    
    They are trying to erase the evidence by scrubbing the machines with litigation pending.
    
    https://twitter.com/LLinWood/status/1333134939412443141
    
    8 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 4:57pm
  - Fletch
    
    Update 2: Judge has reversed the reversal…lol ?
    
    3 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 7:06pm
- C J Southern
  
  I know exactly what’s going to happen over the next few weeks.
  
  1. The 2 remaining swing states will certify their votes
  
  2. The electoral college will confirm Biden is the winner.
  
  3. All the remaining courtcases will continue to produce nothing of substance for Trump, and
  
  4. Biden will be inaugerated on 20 Jan 2021.
  
  2 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 6:25pm
Fletch

The Trump margin of “defeat” in 4 states happened in 4 data dumps between 1:34AM – 6:31AM on the morning of November 4th.

https://votepatternanalysis.substack.com/p/voting-anomalies-2020
17 6
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 12:34pm
- Batman
  
  I see you’re a Rand Paul follower huh?
  
  His tweet that you’ve copied has been labelled as disputed.
  
  5 14
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:36pm
  - Fletch
    
    Of course it has. Do you know who is in charge of the Twitter fact checking now? A ‘Young, Queer Asian-American Businesswoman’.
    
    https://www.protocol.com/christine-su-twitter-safety
    
    8 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:45pm
    - Batman
      
      Awwww I’m sorry your feelings are hurt by being called out.
      
      Prove it is right instead of identity politicking
      
      4 9
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 3:18pm
  - dcrane
    
    Labeled by the corporate entity that blocked the fourth largest newspaper in the US from reporting mid-October revelations that undermined Joe Biden’s entire campaign based on “character”. And blocked anyone from circulating that news, even official GOP party accounts. And thereby interfered in the election more potently by far than anything Russia was accused of in 2016.
    
    We have to deal with the evidence, not just attack sources.
    
    8 5
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 2:22pm
- C J Southern
  
  Quick quick … let his legal teams know – they really need “evidence” like this!
  
  3 9
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:20pm
- dcrane
  
  Does anyone know if it is true that counting was “stopped” in several of the key states in the early morning hours and that there were time periods when observers were not present, or much fewer?
  
  One of Powell’s lawsuits alleges that this happened in one large venue where a water leak was claimed, and most people were removed. I haven’t seen the (expected) pushback on this yet.
  
  7 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:27pm
  - Batman
    
    A water leak occurred on the morning of election day and delayed some counting.
    
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/11/03/burst-pipe-delays-atlanta-absentee-vote-433988
    
    This neatly demonstrates why some vote results were published late at night instead of at 10/11pm as originally planned.
    
    So that’s two dumb conspiracy theories pushed back on.
    
    5 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 3:48pm
    - dcrane
      
      That does help, although it doesn’t say anything about whether people were prevented from observing/validating the process during counting, which would be the important part as far as conspiracy theories go.
      
      4 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 4:06pm
    - Fletch
      
      Yeh, the water leak thing turned out to be a red herring. And there wasn’t a water leak in 4 states simultaneously.
      
      the only public records generated as a result of the alleged “burst pipe” that halted the counting of ballots in Atlanta (Fulton Co.) were a few text messages. These messages were with the Sr. Vice President of the Atlanta Hawks, Geoffrey Stiles, who called it a “slow leak” that was “contained quickly,” and he said the entire thing was “highly exaggerated.”
      
      No repair orders or work orders or invoices from a plumber associated with this “burst pipe” were provided. Nothing.
      
      Dzikowski also filed a similar request with the Fulton County Board of Registrations and Elections which resulted in no records being located per their response.
      
      6 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 4:48pm
      - Batman
        
        Where are you quoting from?
        
        4 4
        Report
        November 30, 2020 4:59pm
      - Fletch
        
        The main story is here –
        
        https://www.news.com.au/world/north-america/us-politics/slow-leak-text-messages-cast-doubt-on-georgia-officials-burst-pipe-excuse-for-pause-in-counting/news-story/19176f5113512210517c82debe684392
        
        6 3
        Report
        November 30, 2020 5:06pm
      - Batman
        
        Right so there was a leak and as a precaution the facility managers fixed it and paused operations while they checked it didn’t spread?
        
        Sounds entirely boring and overly cautious, which means it’s true I’d say. Not a red herring at all for anyone but the fevered of imagination.
        
        3 6
        Report
        November 30, 2020 5:51pm
      - dcrane
        
        Yes, agree it’s not yet apparent that it means anything.
        
        3 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 5:57pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      One very good thing about Joe Biden.
      He has put the DEM back in Dementia. 😆
      
      8 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 5:05pm
- dcrane
  
  That’s one of the most interesting analyses I’ve seen. Key quote: “At the very least, it is possible to definitively say that Joe Biden’s victory in all three of these states [MI, WI, GA] relied on four of the seven most co-extreme vote updates in the entire data set of 8,954 vote updates.”
  
  It’s worth a read.
  
  5 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 5:24pm
I remember when

I remember when the tradies had all secured a job and left school as soon as they were old enough (present Year 9 or by the end of Year 10).
Obviously, that wouldn’t work now but it does draw attention to Year 11,12 and 13 attendance and performance.
In more recent years the school leaving age has been increased, as much to reduce unemployed benefits as increase workplace skills.
Have pupils been disenchanted by having to attend classes that have limited interest for them.
Does this mean disruptive boys, especially, whose behaviour means their classmates enjoyment is also lessened.
Should there be increased movement to Technical Colleges that devote resources to training for employment in trades, while ensuring sufficient skills in english and mathematics.
Can their interests be used as a carrot, to encourage better results in subjects they need but may be neglecting.
There do not seem to be too many complaints about lack of time spent on video games as an example.
15 1
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 1:08pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  The network of technical colleges and polytechnics has been systematically dismantled over recent decades. I’m not sure that has had good results.
  
  16 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:17pm
Jack5

Kiwiblog’s General Debate is humming today. Quarter of a thousand posts before 1pm.

It’s a lesson for stricken Stuff: there’s more potential in stirring the Woke than in tithing the aWakened.
19 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 1:10pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Stuff finally awakens to the fact that its news has been presented through a “monocultural lens”.
  
  I suppose it will take another 30 years or so for some journalists to realise most of us exist in a multicultural world and would appreciate having a multicultural lens thrown on national and international events.
  
  14 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:41pm
  - Jack5
    
    The internet gives us a dazzling range of views and news. We don’t need a State-concentrated news media to give us broad information and views.
    
    “Multiculturism” to many, perhaps most, means a broad range of ethnic people and ways, perhaps even just having a variety of restaurant types.
    
    But here’s a definition of that term from the Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy:
    
    Multiculturalism is part of a broader political movement for greater inclusion of marginalised groups, including African Americans, women, LGBTQ people, and people with disabilities.
    
    The dictionary adds that multiculturalism is closely associated with “identity politics,” “the politics of difference,” and “the politics of recognition.”
    
    It’s worth remembering some of the great failures of multiculturism: Yugoslavia; the ethnic cleansing of Rwanda and some other African nations; Muslims and Christians in Burma/Myanmar; the Turkic Uighurs in Sinkiang; what’s happening now in Ethiopia.
    
    Multiculturists can argue that if there were true multiculturism in these places there would not be genocide. But that’s just a version of the “No true Scotsman” fallacy.
    
    The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy on multiculturism:
    
    https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/multiculturalism/
    
    4 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 4:01pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You seem to be of the view that no society can include different cultures, even that genocide is inevitable in such a society.
      
      0 4
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 6:08pm
      - Jack5
        
        No society, none, Milky?
        
        Twisting things as usual, eh.
        
        2 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 7:58pm
- Inandout
  
  Jack5, Stuff are in the Twitter and FB stable. Censor what you don’t agree with, but even they realise visitors pay the bills; Stuff is oblivious to this which is why it still has a begging banner.
  
  10 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:06pm
- MCos
  
  These are heady days for the Kiwiblog forum
  
  * Stuff apologizes for years of biased reporting
  
  * Labour Government
  
  * Cricketers join West Indies anti racism protest
  
  * NZ beats back covid-19 with draconian lockdown & runs down the clock until vaccine arrives
  
  * Trump proclaims victory in election, but supposedly decrepit, useless opponent get more votes.
  
  0 0
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 10:03pm
Batman

The question on everyone’s lips, is Sidney Powell ok?

The answer is, probably not:

“Sidney Powell has retweeted Major Dad’s claim that US Special Forces took casualties during a gunfight with CIA Operatives in the course of recovering a Dominion server in Frankfurt, a thing that totally happened”

https://t.co/YudJwFZj38
8 17
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 1:19pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It does seem that she should be numbered among the ranks of the totally unhinged.
  
  7 18
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:22pm
  - Batman
    
    And we get three downticks for pointing out the obvious conclusion that there wasn’t a special forces raid in Germany…
    
    6 16
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 1:36pm
    - fernglas
      
      Don’t be so negative, Batman. It might be true. Just like the other things, all I need to persuade me is evidence.
      
      6 3
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 2:18pm
      - C J Southern
        
        Santa Claus and the tooth fairy might be true too …
        
        2 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 6:20pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      That we know of yet…
      
      2 7
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 2:22pm
  - C J Southern
    
    Meh – maybe, maybe not. At the end of the day someone’s paying for her time – and she’s happy to take their money.
    
    8 3
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 2:22pm
  - dcrane
    
    Beginning to wonder if she works for the CIA
    
    1 7
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 2:29pm
- RJ
  
  Sydney has said in an interview she has heard the rumours and doesn’t know if it is true.
  
  Personally I’d expect a lawyer to look at all the information coming into them, but perhaps you should contact her with your evidence that nothing she is taking before the courts is factual, you both seem to know more than her
  
  7 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 1:43pm
  - Batman
    
    Sorry but if you think there was a gunfight BETWEEN the CIA and US military special forces, over a non-existent server in Frankfurt, you either have brainworms or rocks in ya head.
    
    Methinks Sidney is suffering from the former.
    
    6 8
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 3:28pm
- Inandout
  
  The question on everyone’s lips is …..what is the weather forecast.
  
  3 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:16pm
  - Batman
    
    Apparently, hot and humid through the summer
    
    6 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 3:31pm
Scott Hamilton

A New Zealand soldier has been exposed as the fuhrer of a white supremacist group, & is on trial for espionage. Journalists have presented the soldier as a product of the alt-right, Trumpist atmosphere of our age. But he could equally be inspired by NZ military tradition.

A century ago the Returned Services Association could reasonably have been considered NZ’s largest & most influential white supremacist group. The RSA adopted a ‘White NZ’ policy at its 1920 national conference; this policy was reaffirmed at the group’s 1926 conference.

Many veterans of World War One were convinced that ‘Hindoo’ and Chinese migrants wanted to steal their jobs and leer at their wives.
When the White New Zealand League was formed in 1925 it was quickly endorsed by the RSA. The RSA’s relentless warmings about the evils of Asian migration pushed the Massey government into enacting the draconian & openly racist Immigration Restriction Amendment Act.

Some of NZ’s military men hated Jews as well as Asians. During & immediately after World War Two, the RSA repeatedly criticised the Jewish refugees in NZ. At its 1945 conference the RSA called for the deportation of the refugees. Jews protested, & Prime Minister Fraser was enraged, feeling that the RSA was squandering the reputation NZ had won after sending troops to fight Hitler.

The work of the Maori Battalion & the liberalisation of postwar NZ meant that the RSA’s hardline white supremacism eventually became untenable. But change was slow. In 1948 the RSA’s president Howard Kippenberger bravely criticised South Africa for refusing to allow Maori players to join All Blacks teams on tours of the apartheid state. Kippenberger had fought with Maori in World War Two, and he argued that the All Blacks should refuse to send a racially exclusive team to South Africa. RSA branches rebelled, and issued statements defending the ‘no Maoris’ policy.

In the ’70s & ’80s NZers became alarmed by the ‘God Squad’, a Canterbury cult led by the messianic racist Douglas Metcalf. Cult members formed a militia & trained for a civil war. Cops raids on Camp David, the cult’s fortified headquarters in Waipara, netted scores of guns. Key God Squadders belonged to NZ’s air force.

The white supremacist leanings some NZ soldiers have felt is unsurprising, given the origins of the NZ armed forces in a series of 19th century wars against Maori, wars that were often interpreted by politicians and newspapers in racial terms, & the armed forces’ deployment in a series of racially charged conflicts in places like Malaya and Vietnam in the 20th century. The soldier on trial today is not an aberration.
7 13
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 2:28pm
- greybeard
  
  I am not denying that anything you have written above is true, but surely each and every one of us has the right to have opinions and beliefs which may be contrary to those of others ?
  If someone believes that a Whitie, a Jew, a Black, a Maori, a Chinese or whoever is in some way different / inferior / preferred to themself then why is that a problem ?
  Is there never to be a place for personal opinion ?
  
  9 2
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 3:54pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    Nothing good comes from racism. The RSA’s anti-immigration stance led to disaster. The Immigration Restriction Amendment Act and subsequent laws based on it led to NZ denying refuge to thousands of Jews in the late ’30s. Many of them died in the Holocaust. I wrote about this last Holocaust Memorial Day: https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/27-01-2020/in-new-zealand-we-need-to-recall-our-own-links-to-the-holocaust/
    
    2 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 6:34pm
    - Tauhei Notts
      
      Thank you for providing the link to that excellently written piece in Spin Off from January 2020.
      When my father was recruited for a farm job in 1941 part of the inducement was a new house designed by an Austrian Jew who had escaped the troubles several years earlier. Dad had lost an eye in an accident as a six year old, so was considered unfit for the army. He did Home Guard work at Godley Head.
      Your post was so accurate about the anti semitism in our country from, I would say, from 1920 onwards. Cartoonists usually caricatured illegal bookies as Jews. Ikey Mo was another well used term of admonishment.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 9:58pm
- Jack5
  
  And yet, Abe Wachner, a colourful mayor of Invercargill, was a Jewish veteran who suffered a severe head wound while fighting in the New Zealand Army in World War 1.
  
  Eve Poole, a Palestinian Jewish veteran of the British Eighth Army in North Africa who married a New Zealand officer, became Mayor Invercargill.
  
  Both of these folk were warmly supported by the southern RSA branches.
  
  Several Chinese or part-Chinese fought in the New Zealand forces, such as pilot Len Mee-Chang. There was even at least one Japanese in the New Zealand Army when there were scarcely any Japanese in New Zealand.
  
  8 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 4:13pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I believe a Japanese-New Zealander won the MM (maybe the DCM) fighting in Italy.
    
    5 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 6:03pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    It is quite right that the RSA, from the start, included Jews. Unfortunately they were, for some years, and along with Catholics, reluctant to take part in Anzac Day commemorations, because those commemorations were wrapped up in Anglican ceremony. I think it was only in the mid-’30s that commemorations became more secular and inclusive, and Jews and Catholics began to attend in large numbers.
    
    After the RSA demanded the deportation of Jewish refugees at its conference in June 1945, Jewish members were amongst those who organised protests. This article records how Jewish ex-servicemen addressed a protest meeting at Auckland’s synagogue:
    https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/EP19450703.2.100?query=RSA+Jewish+members&snippet=true
    
    Jewish ex-servicemen also drew attention to the series of anti-semitic articles that appeared in the magazine of the Aucland branch of the RSA in 1945-46. These articles blamed Jews for many of the problems of the world, recycling old conspiracy theories.
    
    2 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 7:13pm
    - Jack5
      
      Scott, Eve Poole a Jewish mayor of Invercargill and an army veteran, would at times take the salute at the local RSA parade of veterans on Anzac Day.
      
      3 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 7:53pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        Jack, I just looked up Eve Poole, and he was mayor from 1983 to 1992 – that is, many decades after the end of the sectarian Anzac Day commemorations that excluded Jews and Catholics. Here’s the Catholic bishop of Christchurch in 1946, explaining why people of his faith stay away from the RSA-organised Anzac commemorations and hold their own services: https://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/newspapers/GISH19460819.2.98?items_per_page=10&query=catholic+anzac+day+&snippet=true
        
        2 1
        Report
        November 30, 2020 9:33pm
      - Jack5
        
        Eve Poole was a woman, and a fine woman, too.
        
        Abe Wachner, an earlier Jewish mayor of Invercargill, as a World War 1 veteran, would have been subject to any RSA prejudice of the type you mention.
        
        There is a street or cul de sac or some such in central Invercargill named after Wachner. He was popular, and people accepted his wide swings of emotion, colourfully attributing them to the effect of changeable Invercargill weather on the tin plate inserted in his skull because of a war wound.
        
        1 0
        Report
        December 1, 2020 12:05am
- niggly
  
  Scott, what an appalling, disgraceful and dangerous opinion piece.
  
  You usually write better than this (and I’m one of the few that usually uptick your posts, even when they go against the prevailing view on this blog, because those previous posts are considered and well thought out).
  
  But not this piece. The modern NZ Army has embraced many aspects of Tikanga Māori values and culture. The various Army Cheif’s have written about this in recent years (see Army News PDF’s on their website).
  
  What you wrote above is suggesting the Army is still stuck in some of 19th (or early 20th) Century mindset.
  
  What you wrote above is also suggesting the Army is some sort of closet “white supremacist” organisation. Considering the Army has had a number of Māori in top positions (including Chief of Army) I wonder what they think of your ill informed nonsense?
  
  What has gotten into you Man? Noticed you lost the plot and haven’t been posting here since you led an online campaign to harass a cafe owner in Akaroa(?), yes sure of course call out the historical negative connotations in naming a cafe after historical slave trader … but to then call SJW’s to “attack” the cafe owner (which impacts on the cafe owner’s family and children) is really a step too far, it’s like you are inciting some really bad shit to happen against (presumably) decent folk and their family, is simply disgraceful. Then this inflammatory opinion piece, devoid of reality? Like I said, what’s wrong with you man?
  
  10 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 4:29pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I think he is probably wrong about racism in today’s defence force, but right about historical attitudes.
    
    5 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 6:02pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And not every Returned Service man was a stalwart of the RSA.
      
      5 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 7:06pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    Niggly, I’m by no means arguing that racism is epidemic in today’s armed forces – though I’m not arguing it isn’t, either. I don’t have any information. I note that Australia’s SAS has just been in trouble for racist murders.
    
    What I do know is that there’s a real history of white supremacism in the organisation that represents NZ servicemen and ex-servicemen. I think that this history needs to be much better known. The RSA has never rescinded its resolutions calling for a whites-only NZ, nor apologised for its harrassment of Jews. So it’s a fact that the white supremacist on trial at the moment has antecedents. I think you’re avoiding dealing with the facts of the RSA’s white supremacism by getting outraged.
    
    2 4
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 6:38pm
  - Scott Hamilton
    
    ‘to then call SJW’s to “attack” the cafe owner’
    
    I don’t know what you’re getting at here Niggly. I certainly never advocated any sort of violence against the restauranteur at Akaroa whose establishment was named after a slaver and pedophile. I just put forward an argument about why he should change the name of the place, and encouraged people to boycott it until he did.
    
    I was using my right to free speech to criticise the name, and boycotting is a completely legitimate form of protest – I note that some folks at Kiwiblog have been talking about boycotting the Black Caps today. After the restauranteur decided to change the name I publicly encouraged people to help him out by having a beer at his establishment.
    
    4 2
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 7:18pm
    - Jack5
      
      Scott, well those of us in the area think you played the bully over the name of the bar-restaurant at Akaroa.
      
      Bully Hayes was the only pirate linked with New Zealand I have heard of. You said there was evidence (I think oral history) that Hayes was a paedophile.
      
      This was as the BLM, statue destroying, name changing, boycotting epidemic was breaking out. If you are going to remove every feature or business named after a historic entity with a dark side, Nelson in NZ, Washington in America, and maybe Wellington in NZ would need to be renamed.
      
      Whatever, Scott, you came down heavily on a small owner-operated business, and that did you no credit at all.
      
      What reasonable person would go to the newly Woke pub and buy a beer on your recommendation?
      
      5 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 8:07pm
      - Scott Hamilton
        
        I know some people were upset by my call for a boycott of Bully Hayes, Jack – but a lot of others supported me. I got a lot of messages from Pacific Islanders who ancestors were enslaved and in some cases raped by Hayes. The notion that Hayes’ pedophilia is a matter only of oral history is absurd. This is a guy who was repeatedly put on trial and found guilty, only to escape across the sea. His nickname Bully comes from the Samoan word Buli, which means elusive.
        
        The really great thing that came out of the episode, and the thing I wanted, was the bringing of the Pacific slave trade into the consciousness of mainstream NZ. No longer is it an esoteric subject.
        
        And Hayes was very far from NZ’s only pirate. Thomas McGrath, the whaler-turned-slaver who kidnapped 150 Tongans from their islands and sent them to their deaths in Peru, comes to mind. Waipu teemed with pirates in the 19th C; its Nova Scotian boatmen were constantly going up to the tropical Pacific and committing nefarious deeds.
        
        1 2
        Report
        November 30, 2020 9:26pm
      - Jack5
        
        But Scott, all these Pacific Islanders who emailed you – they’re not locals of the Bully Hayes pub/restaurant.
        
        The name of the establishment in Akaroa is, to be brutal, none of their business.
        
        1 0
        Report
        December 1, 2020 12:02am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Boycott a working man’s business… classy.
      
      https://www.odt.co.nz/star-news/star-our-people/man-behind-bully-hayes-restaurant
      
      3 2
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 8:29pm
    - niggly
      
      @ Scott @ 7.18pm.
      
      Thanks for the reply, I must admit I wrote a hasty post (was on the way out of the house at the time) and put “attack” in inverted commas. I believe you are a fair person and wouldn’t advocate violence, but I seem to recall a social media post back in June in which you were replying to someone (who was also against the cafe) and said something like “get them”, not as in violence, but as in “get them” i.e. don’t hold back – join the “pile-on” and express one’s views strongly against the cafe owner and that’s what I was referring to, as it came across as inciting intimidation of a cafe owner with no skin in the game (a person who wasn’t defending Hayes). Anyhow if I misunderstood your intentions, well that’s how I read it, then I do apologise.
      
      0 0
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 10:33pm
  - Yabster
    
    was he behind the cafe thing in Akaroa? what a complete tosspot.
    
    1 0
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    December 1, 2020 7:57am
Alan Wilkinson

I see Worksafe is charging everyone except itself over White Island.
26 2
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 2:36pm
- surfing
  
  Nz is a nation of cowards.
  
  Charging those who rescued victims is despicable.
  
  21 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:41pm
- Philview
  
  You beat me to it. So Jacinda was proclaimed a hero for her leadership whereas the helicopter company that went in and evacuated survivors is being charged.
  
  16 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 2:56pm
- Batman
  
  That’s generally what happens with regulatory bodies. They do enforcement not proactive management.
  
  12 4
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 3:10pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    The perfect job – being wise after the event the only requirement.
    
    11 1
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 4:36pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Actually its responsibilities appear to go a lot further than that:
      https://worksafe.govt.nz/about-us/who-we-are/role-and-responsibilities/
      
      6 1
      Log in to Reply
      Report
      November 30, 2020 4:41pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEwhV5rE_us

Stick A Fork In The Dem Party.

The Democratic party has a problem or two. Its
splitting into two factions. Socialism is gaining
ground, and causing friction in the party. The
corporate Dems don’t like the Squad. They
want drastic reform, and are at war with
western civilization. Even bending over for
them doesn’t guarantee their support.
10 5
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 2:48pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6uXm2gj3xGc

CNN Admits Trump Can Win.

A CNN reporter laid the situation out. The GOP will win
if it goes to the house. The Margin will be 26 for Trump, and 23 for Biden.
State legislatures are the likely path to victory for Trump.
10 6
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 2:48pm
mikenmildagain

So the president wants “one nice, big, beautiful lawsuit talking about this and many other things with tremendous proof.”
Isn’t he a card!
5 13
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 2:50pm
Maggie Pie

Heard the Editor of Stuffed on with Shorn Plunkett earlier.
Sounded to me like he was as White as the Ace of Spades.

Just saying, eh.
17 7
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 2:54pm
oob

If you pre-empt Cindy’s photo opportunity by saving lives, you’re going to get prosecuted:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/whakaariwhite-island-tragedy-13-charges-laid-by-worksafe/I5DEFB6TBL7WFROFHXZG5YZ6FI/
15 4
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 2:56pm
I remember when

Worksafe NZ:
Over 550 staff working to lift health and safety performance.
Regulatory Confidence:
. Undertaking regulatory activity to provide confidence workplaces are managing health and safety.
Harm prevention:
.Targeting critical risks at all levels.
. Delivering targeted interventions.
Successful?
4 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 3:44pm
WaynelSexton

Biden has “hairline fractures” in his mid-foot and will “likely require a walking boot for several weeks.”
Translation: Biden got at least a partial deal and will concede. If that’s the case, that’s fair enough. He’s a horrifically corrupt bastard, but given his dementia he may not even remember his crimes. He obviously wasn’t the mastermind of the election fraud and may not have known much, if anything, about it.
6 6
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 5:41pm
- Batman
  
  Lol mate, he hurt his foot playing with his dog ??
  
  Hardly a CIA signal
  
  4 8
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 5:46pm
- C J Southern
  
  Translation: “Biden fractured his foot playing with his dog and will likely require several weeks in a walking boot”.
  
  Not everything is a conspiracy.
  
  5 5
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 6:17pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That just shows that you are part of the conspiracy…
    Wake up sheeple!
    
    5 11
    Log in to Reply
    Report
    November 30, 2020 6:20pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300171334/unlicensed-mother-driving-drunk-when-unrestrained-child-killed-in-crash-near-gisborne
What does Stuff’s Mark Stevens have to say about this ?
I presume it is somehow the fault of we white pricks ?:
8 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 6:27pm
- surfing
  
  I don’t read stuff since this morning.
  
  Have zero trust in their organisation.
  
  Have wiped their bookmarks from my iphone and will do so on all other devices.
  
  9 3
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 6:54pm
surfing

I will have to contact stuff, and complain they are racist because they still don’t print all articles in dual languages.

Stuff are hypocrites until they boycott all advertisers not adhering to the principles of the treaty of waitangi as mandated by Sir Geoffrey Winston Russell Palmer (most are racist according to the redefinition of the word).
7 3
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 7:00pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Make of this whatever you like. I have NO link so could be fake news. But remember, the lefties started the fake news 4 decades ago.
For all you people saying no evidence, did you watch Pennsylvania today. Here’s the highlights for ya
Notes from this afternoon’s hearing in Pennsylvania from Rudy Giuliani as well as from witnesses backed up by evidence, under penalty of perjury:
-Received 700,000 more mail in ballots than sent
-At one point over a 90 minute span, 500,000 votes were counted for Biden, Trump….just 3,200
-A back room containing 70,000 unopened mail in ballots found in back room of counting center in boxes of 500, after all mail in ballots were counted
-Votes were counted and recorded at an impossible rate
-the 2.5 million mail in ballot tally was wiped off the PA Secretary of State’s government website with no explanation
-30 USB drives were stolen and unaccounted for
-22,000 mail in ballots were returned the same day they were sent out
-Over 30,000 mail in ballots were received the following day
-Philadelphia Board of Elections processed thousands of uncertified ballots
-PA duplicated and counted ballots over several days
-USB’s were inserted into ballot boxes 24 times with no observers
Thank you, Greg Aselbekian
12 7
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 7:01pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

I often hear the phrase “a simple Google search”
Paraphrased it means a simple person did a google search because Siri and Alexa told them to do it.
Baa!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nVUvOa-9Tk
4 5
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 7:11pm
Jack5

Don’t forget, folks: organise your Stuff donation first thing tomorrow morning. ??
7 0
Log in to Reply
Report
November 30, 2020 8:00pm
- Inandout
  
  Jack5, their CEO has caused untold damage to the company and there are so many alternatives now to find genuine news. Bye bye Stuff.
  
  6 1
  Log in to Reply
  Report
  November 30, 2020 9:20pm

Add a Comment Cancel reply

Login to comment or vote

« A day in the life of an OT social worker

Scott wins on appeal »

Donations

You can now donate to Kiwiblog

Exclusive content from DPF on Patreon

Become a Patron!

Never miss a post

Email Address

Join 13K other subscribers

Highlights

Target achieved II
Good progress on attendance
Health Target 5 – elective treatments
Health Target 4 – Specialist appointments

Links

National gets Winstoned
No Right Turn
Alan Greenspan, 1926-2026: 'The Undertaker' passes away
Not PC
Cost of Renewables Holding Back Net Zero!
Utopia
Is Your Toothbrush Causing Gum Recession? How RANVOO AirJet Rewrites Oral Care with Science
The Daily Blog
Daily review 24/06/2026
The Standard
Word of the day
Hompaddock
Free Speech is in Trouble in Europe
No Minister
The mistakes that sealed Keir Starmer’s fate
Point of Order
NRL Predictions for Round 17
Stats Chat
Media Link: “A View from Afar” on Systemic Change.
Kiwipolitico
Alex Berenson on Fatherhood Manifesto, Marijuana & Biden’s COVID
Bob McCoskrie's McBlog
People Power
NZCPR
Levies as end-runs around the Generic Tax Policy Process
Offsetting Behaviour
A central banker’s fiction
Croaking Cassandra
THE WORKING FROM HOME RACKET BY PUBLIC SERVANTS
No Punches Pulled (Bob Jones)
The Accidental Engagement
Imperator Fish
Legal Beagle: Election '23: The Special Votes
Public Address
Get Vaccinated Tomorrow Or Shut Your Pie Hole
Cactus Kate
Making this movie might have been a mistake
Liam Hehir
Why I am retiring from political blogging
Kiwi FireWalker

[email protected]

PO Box 12270, Thorndon, Wellington 6144

Facebook
Twitter
FourSquare
Instagram
LinkedIn
Google+

Archives
Disclosure Statement
Editorial Policy
Privacy Policy
Complaints Policy
Comments Policy

Design by cre8d

%d

Share this:

Like this: