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June 26, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 26 June 2021

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General Debate

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fernglas

Even though it’s behind a paywall, the headline gets the gist of Joyce’s accurate assesssment of the incompetence which is passed off as success. Winter is nigh, the population has no herd immunity, but we are told to just be patient. What is wrong with New Zealanders? Why just sit back and wait? https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-coronavirus-steven-joyce-slow-vaccine-rollout-leaves-us-sitting-ducks
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June 26, 2021 8:03am
- kowtow
  
  “What is wrong with New Zealanders? ”
  
  Great question . At least some people seem to think we are so “compliant” that we make a great place for experimentation.
  
  “Wynne said New Zealand was seen as a good place to run a clinical trial because it had a good health system, had a compliant population and could produce high quality research data for the pharmaceutical industry.”
  
  For a Chinese vaccine.
  
  https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/kiwis-first-trial-chinese-developed-vaccine
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:41am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Compliant population = Sheeple.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:02am
- Drone
  
  @fernglas we sit and wait because we have no option, St Jax has all the cards and she’s not sharing. MoH has no clout in the world of big pharma so we are last on the list for vaccine, and we await the next variant….
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:21am
  - fernglas
    
    Welcome to the third world.
    
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    June 26, 2021 5:11pm
Tomtoddy

Stuff has run a thought piece on Canterbury’s braided rivers. It has a few interesting ideas, some clever drone photography and a load of rubbish where Maori mythology is stitched into science and known facts. It is becoming more and more apparent that elitists – mostly overpaid academics with not enough to do are determined to show how smart and “with it” they are advancing more and more nonsense pretending with fancy words and ideas that this is the way forward. It is idealism gone nuts. It is pretentious arrogance. It demeans Maori by trying to make out they were more advanced than they were, that their religion and beliefs are superior to the proven and traditional scientific method.

The article concluded:
“A Mataraunga Māori lens is second nature to many groups across the country, and it’s frankly, the direction that we need to be going,” he says.
“To me, it’s an incredible paradox – We have a good idea from science as to where we want to be, and because of the Treaty obligations, if there’s any part of the world where it should be pretty easy to do this, to get on with it, it’s here. And yet we have fallen behind the rest of the world.”
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June 26, 2021 8:08am
- Jade Warrior
  
  Western knowledge works. And no other system of knowledge works as effectively than what developed in the nations of Western Europe in the 18th century.
  
  There is nothing shameful for Maori in this fact. Western knowledge may have come from Europe but all humanity can (and has) benefitted from it – including Maori. This is why Goldsmith was right when he said that, on balance, colonialism was a positive thing for Maori.
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:20am
  - cmm
    
    It is not so much Western knowledge, but the Western way of assimilating knowledge and structuring it to make the most of it and generally improve the systems we have.
    
    For example, the numbering system we use is not Western. It came to us from India (or thereabouts) via the Arabs. Westerners adopted that to construct a greater system.
    
    What makes the Western system good is that it is always striving to improve.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:58am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    Isn’t he part Maori.
    
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    June 26, 2021 2:38pm
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Who downticked me – Nicki Kaye?
      
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      June 26, 2021 5:23pm
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  They were allegedly here for 400 years before Europeans arrived in significant numbers, and yet they built nothing other then huts. Europeans arrived not much more than 200 years ago, and we have built a modern and advanced society, similar in principle to what we had done in Europe for 2000 years before that. I rest my case on the relative scientific merits and abilities of the two races.
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:25am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    200 years? Have a look at some of the old photos of our cities. Dunedin was an impressive city by 1900, within 60 years & less than a lifetime of the signing of the Treaty.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:09am
    - Fidel Cashflow
      
      I didn’t say that it took us 200 years to achieve an advanced society, that is just about how long Europeans have been on these islands. I agree: it took only 50 or 60 years for our civilisations’s greatness to manifest itself on these shores. In fact, we are less-great than we once were, probably largely due to the de-Whitening of the society over the past 30 years or so. There is a common causal factor in both the ascent and the ongoing descent.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:35am
- BananaLlama
  
  Wait until you have to write a paper citing Maori principles in your field of study to graduate from uni.
  People wonder why i think we should just sack the government and hire the mailman to run our affairs.
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:35am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    They sacked most of the posties too, and turned the rest into couriers. Still, your point is valid!
    
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    June 26, 2021 9:47am
  - Gravelroad
    
    I can highly recommend our rural mailman here, Banana.
    He is efficient, dedicated to his customers, gets things done in a timely manner, doesn’t waste money and is not driven by red mail box ideology.
    All the things the current government is not.
    
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    June 26, 2021 9:50am
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    “I’d rather entrust the government of the United States to the first 400 people listed in the Boston telephone directory than to the faculty of Harvard University.”
    – William F. Buckley
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:15am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    That will be illegal. Coercion of thought is against the Bill of Rights.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:27am
  - stewmar
    
    Mailperson
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:27am
    - Akarak
      
      Try postalperson.
      
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      June 26, 2021 3:09pm
  - Pharmachick
    
    Because then the parentage of many more Kiwi children would be questioned?
    
    LOL, I jest, because of course…
    
    that would be milkmen. ?
    
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    June 26, 2021 2:39pm
- oldfella
  
  Tomtoddy: White colonists, in their arrogance, made a huge mistake when they arrived on these shores.
  Instead of imposing their own values, knowledge, religion, and civilisation, they should have been prepared to sit at the feet of a superior people and absorb the many religious and intellectual riches the learned Maori of the land would have been eager to impart to their less enlightened visitors.
  Imagine if those Maori ‘learnings’ had then been taken back by those same white visitors and shared with the rest of civilisation?
  What a different world we might have today. /s
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:41am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    You lost me at /s
    
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    June 26, 2021 9:31am
    - doggone7
      
      Lost me at “shores.”
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:50am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  Modern Kaitiakitanga is complete nonsense. This coming from a mixed descendant.
  
  The idea that Maori sought to protect nature, the environment and their taonga by being guardians over these things and subsequently doing or not doing things to protect nature is simply a modern reinterpretation of the facts.
  
  Over 50% of all native forest loss occurred before Europeans set foot in NZ, mostly because it was indiscriminately burned to hunt Moa to extinction. These Moa were not sustainably hunted, their was a culture of excess that lead to far more being killed than were ever eaten and led to their extinction. The end of the Moa hunter period lead to mass starvation and a diet consisting mostly of ground fern and bracken root for many Hapu. 50% of all known bird species were extinction before Europeans settled. All this occurred with a population between 20-100,000 at maximum.
  
  In reality, Kaitiakitanga was, in simple English, doing acts to appease the “spirits” who were the guardians over the natural resources and Taonga. Sometimes these acts were similar to modern day conservation efforts, such as Rahui, others were not. But the Maori were not guardians, the spirits (ancestors in many Iwi) were.
  
  The recent spin on it where Maori are historical guardians of the Environment is a recent spin on history for political purposes.
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:45am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes I agree. There is an interesting contrast with Australia aborigines. Sure they were not ‘advanced’ in the European sense but they were very knowledgeable of the environment they were living in. They had been there for 60,000 years. A bonus is they were not intent on killing and eating each other on an industrial scale.
    
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    June 26, 2021 9:48am
    - SB2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      ” not intent on killing and eating each other on an industrial scale.”??
      
      “industrial scale” ?? Like the World Wars etc ?
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:07am
      - CaptainCompromise
        
        Objection, Irrelevant.
        
        The world wars are the same side of the same coin; humans make mistakes sometimes collectively. Maori in pre-colonial times did it, as did Europeans throughout history. What is clear is that the idea that some understand the environment better than others simply because of genetics is false.
        
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        June 27, 2021 9:39am
    - CaptainCompromise
      
      Yes, although there is increasing evidence Aboriginal activities significantly increased desertification of Australia. No criticism of the Aborigines, particularly of today, it’s just part of the human condition, we don’t know everything and make mistakes.
      
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      June 27, 2021 9:32am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    The single biggest act of environmental destruction, in my view, is that of the bloke who burned down about a third of the South Island.
    
    Maori oral traditions tell of a moa hunt gone wrong. Autumn time, dry as, a fire was started in Marlborough, the NorWester got up & by the time the rain came the country was black to Otago.
    
    This is not to castigate Maori, just to make the point that they were not environmental saints in pre colonial times. For what it’s worth, I think the blokes who deliberately introduced rabbits, stoats & possums run a close second; with that disgruntled working class Pom who during the 1950s – 1970s released carp, roaches & other coarse fish into lakes across NZ close behind.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:26am
    - SB2
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      The Maoris like others are human and adapt and change the enviroment like other humans
      
      Its the scale that is vitally important.Obviously there were not 3- 5 million of them at that time. I doubt they had the numbers to lay waste a thrid of the South Island.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:11am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        You can doubt it as much as you like SB2…
        but the evidence is otherwise:
        
        Sediment records show a huge increase in charcoal and bracken spores around the 13th and 14th centuries. At the same time, there was a massive decline in pollen from forest trees, marking a striking and devastating change: up to 40% of the forest was burnt within 200 years of Māori settling in New Zealand.
        
        https://teara.govt.nz/en/human-effects-on-the-environment/page-2
        
        and this isn’t New News
        
        It has been known for at least 150 years (Munro 1868)…
        and definitely so for at least the last 50 years…
        
        Polynesian deforestation of New Zealand
        https://www.jstor.org/stable/40386615
        
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        June 26, 2021 1:31pm
      - CaptainCompromise
        
        No disrespect SB2, but Goodness your a sensitive little flower sometimes. Just to clarify I’m not criticising modern or past Maori, either individually or collectively, but it did happen and it was Maori who did it, so the political argument that certain genetic makeup people have superior environmental knowledge is invalid.
        
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        June 27, 2021 9:34am
    - Matt Long
      
      The blokes who introduced rabbits, stoats and possums, aka the acclimatization societies, aka those environmental champions Fish and Game
      
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      June 26, 2021 4:54pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Maori spirits have no place is Christian world.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:28am
  - backster
    
    Cap’n but they didn’t smack their children until they were colonised.
    
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    June 26, 2021 1:03pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  I think you’re being a bit disrespectful to a race of people who made it to the Antarctic in open canoes and minimal clothing some time in the 1500s
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:52am
  - Clyde
    
    In response to both Suze and CaptainCompromise, some of your figures are incorrect but its worse than you thought.
    
    The actual figure of NZ’s forests being burned before European arrival was over 70%. 33 species of birds were wiped out including all moa species. The East Polynesians were never enviromentalists, they were rapers and pillagers of everything they could eat – including each other.
    
    And as for this nonsensical idea that Polynesians discovered Antarctica – this product of the Maori Dept at the U of Otago asserts that this happened in the 7th century – around 650AD. It is pure bollocks like most things being said connected to this woke culture.
    
    Our country is well on the way to hell in a handcart and only really determined efforts will be needed to reverse the direction. This will not be achieved by St Jacinda who is leading the charge to hell, nor I fear by Judith. Winston is getting too old despite his stance. Looks to me that David Seymour – if he makes his position more clearly align with much of what Winston said recently on the subject of wokedom – is the logical person to get us back into a sane world.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:03am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Clyde, your critique is unfounded Sir. The world must have been way warmer back then…!
      
      Geez Wayne!
      
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      June 26, 2021 12:15pm
      - Clyde
        
        It probably was Suze, but you read this baloney put out by the woke academic it was way colder as these were heroic explorers. I’m surprised as of yet there hasn’t been a ToW claim on the Pleiades star cluster. Because as we all know these East Polynesian explorers probably went there as well. Just a wee bit harder than paddling to the South Pole.
        
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        June 26, 2021 12:41pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Proof. It sounds like BS to me. Have you seen one of those canoes? Have you felt the wind and sea at -10c and a lot more below? Their waka of any size wouldn’t have crossed Cook Straight in some of its moods.
    I see these claims as an attempt to seek false ownership of the South which is a World space.
    Which Tribe is the one promoting this? Maori are in 7 fragments. Those who got to NZ were not one nation as they were prepared to eat each other.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:34am
    - cmm
      
      Sarcasm dude, sarcasm.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:01am
      - Flossie
        
        You have to draw a picture for some people!
        
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        June 26, 2021 11:12am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        So? It’s explanatory.
        
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        June 26, 2021 1:12pm
- artemisia
  
  “We have a good idea where the money is coming from these days.” FIFY.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:05am
- Benedict Yu
  
  “A Mataraunga Māori lens is second nature to many groups across the country”..
  
  Who are these groups? I hope they are not engineers, pilots and doctors.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:34am
- MCos
  
  Putting to one side your obvious distaste of any reference to Māori, I thought the article was more about braided rivers having a mind of their own.
  We practically lived at our hut at the mouth of the Rangitata during the school holidays so Dad could go salmon fishing with his mates.
  Every time the river flooded the mouth changed location by up to a couple of kilometres. Before farmers came along those rivers could alter their course altogether just for fun. As it is the Rakaia Bridge is 1.8km long just to cover any contingencies.
  Once when the Rangitata was in flood some guys walked down to the mouth. A new mouth opened behind them leaving them on a dwindling away island of shingle . . . . . .
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:35am
- JJ56
  
  Get use to seeing more and more of this. The science funding system is increasingly expecting to see more and more Mataraunga Māori in proposals, and if not that at least uses that specifically benefit Māori .
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:40am
- kowtow
  
  stuff should be ashamed of themselves .
  
  Whites literally at war with nature . What rubbish.
  
  “To some, the Waimakariri is a tupuna, a taonga, a provider of mahinga kai. To the settlers, it was a “dreaded enemy”, something to be protected from.
  
  The settlers were not living with the river; they were at war with it. In some ways, they still are.”
  
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  June 26, 2021 12:53pm
slightlyrighty

A few weeks ago, Olly Robinson made his Test debut for England.

At the same time, “concerned citizens” took it upon themselves to trawl through a decades worth of digital history to find offensive material, and to forever taint what should have been a landmark moment for the young man, using tweets he made at age 18-19.

This is the world that our government would like to introduce Hate Speech Legislation to.

This measure should be killed in it’s infancy. Not because there is not hate speech, but because the entire concept of Hate is sunjective, and any legislation that seeks to define it through some sort of list, will be leaving that list open ended.

I hope that all Kiwibloggers will be fighting this tooth and nail!
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June 26, 2021 8:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  AFAIK the government has refused to give any practical examples of what constitute hate speech. That would be helpful. An example. If someone posted on Facebook “Trans women are evil and should be rejected by society” There is little doubt that this would be hate speech and you would be prosecuted. What if you posted “Trans women are not women.” Is that a legitimate view or hate speech? I have not idea and I am sure I am not alone.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:56am
  - cmm
    
    “AFAIK the government has refused to give any practical examples of what constitute hate speech.”
    
    Of course they won’t. Arbitrary laws are more effective at shutting people down and prevents people speaking their mind.
    
    As a thought experiment, consider if speed limits were arbitrary and determined by a cop. (s)He could pull you over at any speed and give you a ticket. Are you going to drive at 100kph?
    
    There are no measures and benchmarks for hate speech and wont ever be. Someone can say “white culture is basically crap” and get rewarded. “Maori culture is basically crap” will get you pinged for hate speech.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:12am
- michael_s2
  
  Would pointing out how much weight Kris Faa’foi has put on in the past 3years be considered hate speech? Or referring to him as Kris Fat’foi?
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:20am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  This legislation will be passed in its full glory and nothing can be done about it. Sheeple want it and they shall get it. Move on bro. Go and look for a beer.
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:04am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You have until 6 August to put in a submission about this proposed law change.
  
  Details within:
  https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/Incitement-Discussion-Document.pdf
  
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  June 26, 2021 2:57pm
Justitia

The slow moving coup is now accelerating. New Zealand is in the midst of a hostile takeover by the Far Left. The release of the ruling clique’s “hate speech” proposals yesterday makes clear they will seek to imprison anyone who insults (i.e. disagrees with) them or their “protected groups”. Pale, stale males need not apply.

This legislation must be resisted by everyone who values freedom of thought and expression. Democracy in New Zealand is in peril. No one can now look away.
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June 26, 2021 8:27am
- Nickc2
  
  These hate/free speech laws are being put forward by a Journalist FFS. How does that work? IMO, he’s shitting on an elite organisation known as the 4th Estate that breathed life into his career before he joined that other bunch of lying two faced bastards known as Labour Politicians.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:07am
- nathie
  
  I can’t believe the naivety of some journo/broadcasters that think it will be applied consistently and fairly to everyone.
  
  Eg mock Christianity or pakeha or heterosexual people and “hate speech” rules will apply?
  
  Doubt it! Likely that it will only be applied to protect “minorities” from the “majorities”.
  
  We see this with existing legislation and bodies like Race Relations – pakeha people can not complain about being racially abused by other minority groups!
  
  Radicals and social science academics deem that “white” people can not and do not experience things like racism … because of “white privilege”!
  
  Even if they are “white” themselves, they say and believe this!
  
  It’s just nuts!
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:14am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Thanks for the joke. This is going to happen, no matter what. Labour has absolute majority and will be in power for the next 10 years minimum.
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:05am
  - Paulus
    
    Labour will not be in power after the next election as they cannot do so without the Greens.
    Not everybody is that stupid to vote the same again.
    Or are they ?
    
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    June 26, 2021 2:24pm
    - Bob
      
      Not everybody is that stupid to vote the same again.
      Or are they ?….
      Paulus, my ‘Stupidometer’ indicates that there is still a very good chance of Labour/Green support govt in 2023; unless the cognitively aware voters start thinking.. a National Govt ..for 2023 and begin supporting Collins and company.
      Far too many people still are still enthralled by the RED MSM propaganda dialogue.
      
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      June 26, 2021 2:57pm
G152

So we are going to have hate speech legislation where any-ones remarks about a person of another race, religion or tribe can lead to that person being arrested and taken to jail/court/sentence/jail.
Does this ‘law’ extend to Parliament?
I have noticed the remarks of a leader of a colourful minority party as very very much demeaning of another race.
Or does this ‘law’ only relate to one particular peoples in the wild (as it were) ????
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June 26, 2021 8:34am
- lastmanstanding
  
  Kill a White today and any hatred against Christainity will be declared as non hate speech.
  
  On the other hand any criticism of Muslims Islam Communision Socialism Labour Greens will be declared Hate Speech.
  
  Remember when the jailings start you heard it here from LMS.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:07am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    So LMS are you saying if I write “Toxic Greens – full of crap”, I will be jailed? Thanks for the comedy man.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:06am
    - crikey
      
      The truth has always been a defence.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:42am
      - alwyn
        
        You have given me the best laugh I have had for ages.
        Where on earth did you get that idea?
        
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        June 26, 2021 5:01pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Refrigeration Day!
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June 26, 2021 8:38am
- mandk
  
  Yeah, I’m just going to chill out.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:50am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  A big day for us in NZ; it’s the foundation of our wealth.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:29am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    World Refrigeration Day is on the birthday of Lord Kelvin.
    Nest February will see the 140th anniversary of the sailing of the Dunedin, with NZ’s first cargo of frozen meat: 4331 mutton, 598 lamb and 22 pig carcasses, 250 kegs of butter, hare, pheasant, turkey, chicken and 2226 sheep tongues
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:11pm
Yvette

“Hateful korero”
“One man’s terrorist is another man’s freedom fighter” is epitomised perhaps by Nelson Mandela, who spent 27 years in jail for his terrorist activities, then became one of the most venerated of world leaders.
Or the quote can form your view of Hezbollah and Hamas.
So is a certain amount of “hate speech” defined by context?
And how well is Kris Faafoi doing in his definition of that? Or his Leader –

David Seymour says – the Cabinet paper admits there is no definition of hate speech. “The problem is that you have something that the Prime Minister, the government departments and the Cabinet can’t define, but you can be put into jail for three years for it [or a $50,000 fine – and how can they be so definite about that but not define what earns such punishment?]
the closest Ardern has come to a definition is … she identified the “threshold” between reasonable criticism and hate speech as: “You know it when you see it.” [1]
______

New Zealand’s recent anti-terrorism hui has just been marked by a mass walkout (apparently “mass” was 10 to 15 people out of 300) by members of the Muslim community, when Juliet Moses, NZ Jewish Council spokesperson, said –
“We need to hear leaders condemn all support for terrorism and all terrorism equally whatever the source, target, and circumstances, and even when it is not politically expedient to do so. Hezbollah and Hamas, their military wings are proscribed terror organisations in New Zealand but we saw a rally in support of Hezbollah on Queen St in 2018.”

Her remarks were condemned as “inappropriate”, “that divide us”, “not the tikanga way”, “an example of the securitisaton of Islam, where the faith was conflated with terrorism and threat” [see – that was against Islam not the followers] and “this was most hurtful and why I led the walkout”.
It was claimed “Moses’ characterisation of Hezbollah was an opinion, not a fact”, however the military wing of both Hezbollah and Hamas are listed on the NZ Police website of recognised terrorist bodies, as is Brenton Tarrant.
______

Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to these disturbing statistics

Is that hate speech or a statement of fact?
But in a fuller context this statement was –
“After nine years of this National Government, propped up by the Māori party, there’s not a lot to brag about. Māori are more likely to be overweight, depressed, homeless, incarcerated and uneducated according to these disturbing statistics produced under National’s watch.

– so, has that not now become hate speech, the besmirching of Maori in general and the Maori Party in particular, and National as well. for cheap political advantage by Kelvin Davis?
quote – https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1702/S00255/no-mana-for-maori.htm

______

The San Diego synagogue shooter in an open letter said – Tarrant was a catalyst for me personally. He showed me that it could be done. And that it needed to be done. “WHY WON’T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING? WHY WON’T SOMEBODY DO SOMETHING? WHY DON’T I DO SOMETHING?”—the most powerful words in his entire manifesto. – from the ‘manifesto’ of John Timothy Earnest, 19-year-old shooter, in the Chabad of Poway synagogue incident in Poway, California, April 27, 2019

But in banning Tarrant’s manifesto – the Censor’s Office said it is an unambiguous call to immediate violent action, and advocates the deliberate killing of children, as just two reasons – I doubt that the phrase “WHY DON’T I DO SOMETHING?” was seen as offensive, or considered likely to help radicalise another terrorist gunman, as it did in John Earnest.
Can you argue anything citing just one case? Yes, Tarrant was such a single case. John Earnest is another.

But, was Ardern’s 2017 Election rallying slogan “LET’S DO THIS” that much different to “WHY DON’T I DO SOMETHING?”
______

Another example of context, is Race Relations Commissioner Dame Susan Devoy response to an anti-Semitic speech at an Auckland mosque –
The Islamic Ahlulbyt Foundation Centre, which hosted the event at which the cleric, Hojatoleslam Shafie, New Zealand based Iranian diplomat Hormoz Ghahremani and others spoke, need to let the rest of us know whether they will continue to tolerate this kind of hateful korero at their events. – Susan Devoy, October 31, 2017 [2]

The smearing (again) of Maori and their language in this incident by using te reo to coin the term “hateful korero” for “hate speech”, when Maori had nothing to do with the issue, is surely casual racist Maorification where people spurred by political correctness drop such words in conversation without regard to context – (obviously, for what other acceptable explanation is there?)

But, what would be “hate korero” – if it existed?

Perhaps this – Regarding the Haumaha Inquiry, Mr Shane Jones says, “… the latest attack from National Party spokesperson Chris Bishop, that New Zealand First shouldn’t be involved in picking a replacement for the inquiry because MP Fletcher Tabuteau comes from the same hapu as Mr Haumaha, is a new low for politics.
“Mr Bishop came from the tobacco industry so he’s a tough character and I’m sure he suffered no moral misgivings about his old industry, the tobacco industry, which has killed so many Māori women. So we’re dealing with a new level of vilification but one or three of us in parliament are made of sterner stuff than that and what goes around comes around,” Mr Jones says – “Vilification, National strategy in Haumaha inquiry” [3]
So Jones made this comment on Waatea – Urban Maori Radio
To use Jones own words, are we “dealing with a new level of vilification”? His?

So define all this, Kris Faafoi, in simple terms, with a proper definition of hate speech. so the public conversation you say we are having, can actually occur.

[1] https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL2104/S00099/graham-adams-seymour-outflanks-ardern-on-hate-speech.htm
[2] https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL1710/S00041/this-is-who-we-do-not-want-to-ever-become.htm
[3] https://www.waateanews.com/waateanews/x_news/MTk4MjE=/National News/Vilification,-National-strategy-in-Haumaha-inquiry

And as a foot-note – Little and Ardern and others would have you believe their motivation to act on “hate speech” stems from the vast tragedy in Christchurch, but in fact Tarrant did not noticeably indulge in hate speech, except on some obscure website which neither Police nor anyone else picked up or reacted to. They didn’t hear anything from him until he was minutes from executing his terrorist crimes.
The linking of hate speech to Tarrant’s actual heinous actions is only bending events to suit other agendas and other contexts. Islamophobia existed at the time of course but only in parallel to Tarrant.
Tarrant apparently under his expressed fears of “invader” immigrants swamping his European heritage and way of life, in a “Great Replacement”, gave greater emphasis (in his manifesto) on the rate of births among Muslims, rather than any particular hatred of their religion.
Such is the impact of social labels and censorship, of both officials and media, this truth is not better known.

Simplistically, the danger Tarrant presented was not what he said, but what he did.
And then his selection of New Zealand was the wrong country as venue for his atrocities. Beyond his warped decision and justification of such violence, his choice of venue – indeed context – gave him a result totally different to what an such an attack in France (after Charlie Hebdo, the Nice truck killings, and various beheadings), Germany or the UK (post London knifings or the Manchester Arena bombing) would have seen.
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June 26, 2021 8:38am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Sorry about the downtick – too long.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:28am
  - Yvette
    
    Captain Mainwaring, I was very hesitant to post that.
    So, sorry about the length, but do please feel the width.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:07am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Gee Captain – soon you’ll be complaining that NCEA1 must be cancelled because aotearoa’s poor students have a fear of failure!
    
    Oh, wait…
    
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    June 26, 2021 2:21pm
- SB2
  
  Tarrant’s actions speak louder than words whether he expressed them or not. His actions ( and thoughts ) were obviously hate directed at Muslims .
  
  And you seem to conveniently miss Anders Brevik. Why? Hate directed against the left. No different to Tarrant’s hate directed at Muslims.
  
  The attacks in Nice, Charlie Hebdo etc made no distinction against gentiles, Muslims etc
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:23am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Whilst their manifestos cross paths, reading both of them, you come away with a very different opinions to yours.
    I guess it is unfair I have had the opportunity to read both, sadly many in New Zealand will never get this opportunity.
    Why don’t they rub out all Hitlers contribution to humanity.
    This censorship does not make the world a better place, just lets the likes of you express a half baked opinion without accessing all the facts.
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:41pm
  - Fidel Cashflow
    
    Brevik shot up the young lefties because of the left’s policies of mass third world immigration into Norway. He addressed the cause, Tarrant addressed the effect. But the underlying motivation was still the same: a government policy.
    
    Wherever this or similar policies are enacted, they are, like all policies, inherently political. Muslims are here in ever greater numbers due to politicians, the same way that Maori or LGBT issues are promoted by politicians. Hate speech laws are, therefore, aimed at curtailing free political discourse. It’s really all about not criticising the government.
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:55pm
- greybeard
  
  Great summary Yvette: thanks.
  
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  June 26, 2021 2:14pm
Loddenthinks

A knife attack in Germany by a Somali immigrant who arrived in 2015 with the tsunami of fighting-age Islamic men into Europe.

Three killed, 5 injured. Islamic terrorist is shot by Police and is now in hospital with non-life threatening injuries.

“Police said on Twitter that there was no danger to the population. They declined to immediately provide further information and urged social media users to refrain from speculation.”

From Reuters: “…according to one witness, the suspect had called “Allahu akbar”, an Arabic phrase meaning “God is great” and often associated with acts of Islamist terrorism before starting his spree.”

Religion of Peace strikes again. Glad I’m allowed to report this without being prosecuted for telling the truth.
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June 26, 2021 8:45am
- Hacked-Off
  
  You obviously missed the Labour announcement last night on pushing forward with the hate speech laws. If passed, comments like yours, no matter how truthful can be prosecuted. You just have to offend someone somewhere for them to report it to the police. Facts do not matter, only feelings matter and then only certain types of feelings – but not if you are a straight white male then forget it.
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:50am
  - SB2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    The religion of peace does not strike back. Certain people who have twisted views of Islam strike back. Obviously, if every member of Islam felt the same then the West would be in very big trouble.
    
    I don’t think both of you have any idea how to distuish fact from feelings.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:28am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      They gave it a fair crack during the crusades.
      “Approximately two-thirds of the ancient Christian world had been conquered by Muslims by the end of the 11th century”
      You are on another planet if you believe what you have just written.
      History can repeat itself.
      What about throwing gays off tall buildings, and stoning innocent woman, so peaceful, I guess when there dead its peaceful.
      Most religions have been aggressive through history, why you would think Muslims are any different intrigues me.
      
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      June 26, 2021 1:07pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      @ SB2 – I’m not sure if your post re Islam is a parody, but if not then it is an awesome example of not being able, using your words, to distinguish facts from feelings.
      
      I get your point about extremists, such as the Ikhwan etc, but Islam is not the religion of ‘peace’ at all and never has been. Historically, Islam’s bloody borders with all non-Islam folk/countries speak for themselves.
      
      George Bush coined the religion of peace label, which was subsequently gleefully seized upon by the Mohammedans.
      
      The word ‘Islam’ is derived from the root verb istaslama (استسلاما); which means ‘to submit’ or ‘give in’ or ‘surrender’. It is a a code of religion, politics and philosophy, following one path (sharia in Arabic).
      
      The extremist Saudi-sponsored Wahabi sect has resurrected the old concept of jihad whereby non-believers get peace if they submit – or the ‘peace’ of death if they don’t. Your comment about not striking back is ludicrous.
      
      I should add that I was based in various Arabic/Muslim countries in the Gulf and Maghreb for a total of 14 years, learned Arabic, got on well with most of the locals, have Muslim friends from those parts, but disliked the hypocrisy of the religious ambience.
      
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      June 26, 2021 1:38pm
      - kloyd0306
        
        Game, set and match.
        
        As usual, Stephie offers no facts to back his claim. The left don’t have to while they have a compliant media on their side.
        
        Feelings are all that is needed, hence the problems we are going to face if hate speech is enacted into law.
        
        I hate to imagine what our country will look like in ten years.
        
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        June 26, 2021 3:25pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      You’re an idiot, so I’m not sure why I bother, but I never stated that the Religion of Peace strikes back. I said it strikes again. They have nothing to strike back about, with useful idiots like you running interference for them they get a great ride in the media and by leftard governments like the one we’re currently saddled with.
      
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      June 26, 2021 6:15pm
- David George
  
  Police: “there was no danger to the population”
  Sounds they’ve been taking deny, deflect lessons from Stuart Nash.
  Mayhem and shoot ups on the streets of Napier (and elsewhere) and the people afraid to go out and he says:
  “In terms of feeling unsafe, unless you’re a gang member, you have no reason to feel unsafe”
  Well that’s alright then Stu, send you’re wife and kids out for a wander round at night.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:05am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    German Police:
    
    ““In terms of feeling unsafe, unless you’re a ~~gang member~~ non-muslim, you have no reason to feel unsafe”
    
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    June 26, 2021 9:50am
  - SB2
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    As if Judith and National have a magic cure-all for crime and its consequences except for politicsing it as the yellow highlight might suggest.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:31am
Maggy Wassilieff

The threat to our democracy

But it’s hard to imagine anything more damaging to the trust the public has in media organisations than plausible accusations — or even just suspicions — that they have been bought with $55 million of taxpayers’ money.

https://pointofordernz.wordpress.com/2021/06/25/the-dangers-of-putting-media-on-the-governments-payroll/
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June 26, 2021 8:46am
- Justitia
  
  What trust? The New Zealand media have shat their pants.
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:52am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The media money Fund smells of illegality. Requiring parties to the handout to be compliant in promoting the Treaty as partnership is corruption,as that is not the present law. A form of bribery which must be stamped out.
  
  Even worse it implies going along with Maori attempts to have tikanga, which includes utu, step on the toes of our common law.
  This explains tikanga well:
  https://www.nzcpr.com/tikanga-in-law-what-does-it-mean/
  
  It was tikanga that brought Maori to seek protection from their lifestyle in the first place.
  
  The PM must be complicit in the present subversive promotion of He Pua pua. That has not authoritative endorsement from the voters of New Zealand. a.k.a. No Mandate.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:06am
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  The fact that the approved media are on the payroll is an unassailable fact. It requires no explicit admission on the part of the government. We know it is a fact because what could the alternative justification for their obscene largesse be? There isn’t one. If the message was not being so tightly curated and controlled, the public attitude to this government would be much, much different.
  
  While unscientific, why are the comments disabled on many of the approved media YouTube channels, particularly on videos about Covid? Why, for instance, is the same true of the White House YT channel, which allegedly has 1.9 million subscribers, yet every single video since Biden’s installation has comments closed and sees the WH getting heavily “ratioed” in terms of dislikes to likes?
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:15am
  - artemisia
    
    There will be a change of government one day. Special largesse will reduce or dry up. Some PR staff in Parliament and departments will need to pivot to some other career due to no room at any of the inns.
    
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    June 26, 2021 9:54am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      I am sure Venezuelans thought the same in early days of Chavez’s regime.
      
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      June 26, 2021 6:59pm
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Surely that article was funded by a pack of far right, racist, fundamentalist neo-liberals…
  
  Just shaddup and follow the science!
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:26am
- Yvette
  
  Maggy Wassailieff
  is the figure not $55 million, but in fact $105 million?
  
  The Government will shell out $55 million over the next three years to help ensure “public interest journalism” continues across New Zealand’s media landscape.
  The contestable fund – which will be administered by NZ On Air – will be available to media outlets to fill a public interest service which otherwise would not be produced without the funding.
  Broadcasting and Media Minister Kris Faafoi said the fund would help keep grassroots, public interest journalism and investigative reporting alive …
  
  This is the second tranche of Government funding for media Faafoi has announced.
  In April, he unveiled details of a $50m package aimed specifically at helping media companies get through Covid-19.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-earmarks-55-million-to-support-public-interest-journalism-with-new-media-fund/5UU3XEUYEQ2422SKPKJR4JQZ2M/
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:00am
- nathie
  
  Yes the public is suspicious – especially when the likes of Stuff prohibit “public comments” when Stuff occasionally runs a critical article about the Labour government. Which means public opinion is censored. Where’s the diversity of thought, that reflects the real New Zealand?
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:21am
- JJ56
  
  Oh, just for the occasional column in NZ like this piece from Delimgpole in the UK on ex UK science advisor David King’s latest adventure https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2021/06/25/climate-jackals-move-in-to-steal-what-is-left-of-your-freedoms/
  
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  June 26, 2021 6:09pm
thirteenstars

Great news from the Free Speech Union:

I have some great news — we have achieved a compressive victory against Palmerston North City Council who tried to de-platform the feminist group Speak Up for Women because the Council did not like their views.

This afternoon, the High Court granted the injunction Speak Up for Women sought (and we have been supporting) and has ordered the Council to host the event, as it was planned, tonight at 6.30 in the Palmerston North Library.

Support them. The battle has hardly begun.

https://www.fsu.nz/
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June 26, 2021 8:55am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I think Speak Up for Women were the group who had placard holders along Lambton Quay a few weeks ago urging people to protect children and women from sexual assault. What they were actually doing was distributing pamphlets opposing the proposal to allow changes to birth certificates.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:10am
  - thirteenstars
    
    So what?
    
    It’s their right to use a public facility for a meeting that’s at issue. Doesn’t matter if they’re the Flat Earth Society or the NZ Communist Party, same deal.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:05am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      And it’s my right to be disgusted by their attempts to conflate gender-identity issues with sexual assault.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:11am
      - thirteenstars
        
        Well, cheer up, because no doubt you’ll be able to have the police investigate them using the coming hate speech laws.
        
        Something to look forward to. All the best.
        
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        June 26, 2021 12:24pm
      - Paulus
        
        So if you do not like their issues then ignore them.
        If you don’t like the club rules then do not join.
        
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        June 26, 2021 2:32pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        If you believe men deciding they’re now women and being able to “prove it” by changing their birth certificate has nothing to do with sexual assault then you’re even more stupid than you appear to be, which I didn’t think was possible.
        
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        June 26, 2021 6:19pm
- thirteenstars
  
  Further, in today’s Free Speech Union update:
  
  Given the current cancel culture and suppression of opposing opinions, the Judge’s comments are extremely encouraging. It is especially pleasing to see the Judge apply what we’ve previously achieved in the Court of Appeal (against Auckland Council/Phil Goff) as the basis of his decision to reinstate the Speak Up for Women event.
  
  This win is a very strong shot across the bows of all Councils and Mayors who may try to limit free speech. We will stand up for free speech, and win.
  
  I am told that last night’s Speak Up for Women event in Palmerston North went ahead without incident. Despite the social media mob’s shouting, no one was hurt in the exercise of free speech or by the feminist group voicing their opinions.
  
  And regarding the next battle, the hate speech laws:
  
  The Government appears determined to go ahead with the criminalisation of so called “hate speech” – despite Minister’s’ definitions of what they do, and don’t, want the law to cover remaining vague.
  
  The consultation on the draft law runs until early August. That means we have a window of opportunity to blow the whistle on this dangerous proposal. We will be ensuring it is easy for New Zealanders to have their say, and planning our campaign in the coming few days.
  
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  June 26, 2021 1:22pm
I remember when

Is it time to dismiss the view that Maori have some sort of instinctive knowledge of conservation.
Like all races Maori, pre-european, lived within the environment that existed.
They had little option.
Their knowledge was an understanding of the use of nature to help them resource food, medicine by using observation and use of natural materials to build structures.
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June 26, 2021 9:08am
- Loddenthinks
  
  You mean a bit like early man did several thousand years ago?
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:53am
colina

If you ever wondered what side of the fence you sit on, this is a great test!

If a Conservative supporter doesn’t like guns, she/he doesn’t buy one.

If a Labour/Green doesn’t like guns, they want all guns outlawed.

If a Conservative is a vegetarian, she/he doesn’t eat meat.

If a Labour/Green is a vegetarian, she/he wants all meat products banned for everyone.

If a Conservative is gay, she/he quietly leads his life.

If a Labour/Green is gay, she/he demands legislated respect.

If a Conservative is down-and-out, she/he thinks about how to better the situation.

A Labour/Green wonders who is going to take care of her/him.

If a Conservative doesn’t like a talk show host, she/he switches channels.

Labour/Greens demand that those they don’t like should be banned.

If a Conservative is a non-believer, she/he doesn’t go to church.

A Labour/Green non-believer wants any mention of God and religion silenced. (Unless it’s a foreign religion, of course!).

If a Conservative reads this, they will forward it so their friends can have a good laugh.

A LABOUR/ GREEN WILL DELETE IT BECAUSE HE/SHE IS OUTRAGED.
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June 26, 2021 9:14am
- pdm
  
  Colina – worth more than one uptick.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:45am
- thirteenstars
  
  Allow me to play Devil’s Advocate:
  
  If a Labour/Green supporter doesn’t like drugs, they don’t take them.
  
  If a Conservative supporter doesn’t like drugs, they outlaw them.
  
  It’s an easy game to flip on its head. Not so long ago the gay thing would have been:
  
  If a Conservative supporter doesn’t like homosexuality, they claim it’s an affront to God and outlaw it.
  
  And Conservatives and bible bangers didn’t come to a different realisation on their own; many of them have just turned a necessity into a virtue.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:40am
  - Tall Man
    
    Taking drugs is generally self harm dontcha think. Should we encourage people to self harm?
    
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    June 26, 2021 3:34pm
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Taking drugs is generally self harm dontcha think.
      – Not in the vast majority of cases, and certainly a hell of a lot less than say, taking alcohol and smoking are “generally self-harm”.
      
      Should we encourage people to self harm?
      – Of course not, but that’s not what you’re advocating. I’m fine with “not encouraging people” if that helps, but you want to stop people. That’s very different to not encouraging, even if it were self-harm, which I dispute.
      
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      June 26, 2021 10:49pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      You’ve just proven my point. You claim a right to prevent me from self harm. Who the hell gave you that right? And if you claim such a right then I and others may claim the same right over you.
      
      But no, your biases are rational and theirs aren’t, right?
      
      Live by the sword, die by the same sword.
      
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      June 27, 2021 9:18am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Very good, agree with most points, but you missed one:
    
    If a Conservative supporter doesn’t like homosexuality, they claim it’s an affront to God and outlaw it.
    
    If a Labour/Green supporter likes homosexuality they insist everyone does it, everyone gets a medal and a parade for doing it, teachers and media willingly promote it, and just when you’d recovered from that they decided anyone can change their birth sex by filling in a form and paying a small fee.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:53pm
- SB2
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  colina, outright piffle worthy of a downtick!
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:37am
  - Humble Capitalist
    
    Says SB2 the all time downtick champion
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:42pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    6% agree with you, you must be correct in your assumption.
    only 3 out 52 thought it worth a down tick.
    You are at least on the the left side of the majority.
    
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    June 26, 2021 1:11pm
  - calendar girl
    
    You certainly got my down-tick, SB2. Well earned!
    
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    June 26, 2021 6:10pm
Ruawai

The National party should look at the culture of the NZ men’s cricket team. They all support each other, and believe in each other and if a mistake is made they regroup and move forwards positively. They are all playing for the team not themselves.
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June 26, 2021 9:14am
- mikenmildagain
  
  A ‘no dickheads’ policy.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:12am
  - Tall Man
    
    Wish Parliament had the same policy.
    
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    June 26, 2021 3:32pm
- Happychappy
  
  Wouldn’t that have to stressed to some fickle National voters on here who change their vote to the likes of Winston Peters and David Seymour when National make policy that they don’t agree with or a Leader they don’t think fits their agenda.
  Here is a point that people can’t seem to understand you all blame Winston Peters for installing Labour as the Government , which is partially right but you forget that their is alot that comment on this blog that voted for Peters that put him in the position to make that decision and now say they won’t vote National again when they were half of the problem or if not more.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:26am
kowtow

Anyone else a wee bit uncomfortable with the imagery of a prime minister with an absolute parliamentary majority playing the white saviour in a tornado ravaged street , handing out stuffed toys ?

It’s almost a Queen Antoinette “Let them eat cake ” moment.

The other thing it most definitely does is to self politicise her own family , like when hubs brings bubs to the UN General Assembly.
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June 26, 2021 9:15am
- Loddenthinks
  
  “Hubs”? I threw up a little bit in my mouth, cheers for that
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:55am
- I remember when
  
  Would have been there earlier but Neve had to decide which toys she thought would be most appropriate.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:58am
- doggone7
  
  Is the implication that she should only have gone there if she had a slim majority?
  
  The sad thing is that such an ordinary event gets to be interpreted as something deep and meaningful let alone sinister.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:24am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Sums up Jacinda, really. Keep Neve out of the media (which I agree with, BTW), except when it suits.
  
  Expedience overrules principle, every time.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:35am
Maggy Wassilieff

Toxic debate

How do we give permission to people to engage in debate without slapping them down for having a different view?

https://www.aljazeera.com/opinions/2021/6/24/what-is-woke-culture-and-why-has-it-become-so-toxic
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June 26, 2021 9:19am
- thirteenstars
  
  Careful. That piece is a Trojan Horse as it’s really a call to Progressives that they’ve pushed too hard and the strategy needs to be more subtle (read: subversive).
  
  What it’s really saying is: the time for all out revolution is not quite yet.
  
  Some may see it as a call to moderation. But ask yourself: what’s the moderate position to be had with an ideology that seeks to take away your right to free expression?
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:35am
- cmm
  
  The idea is to cause confusion and to be seen to be doing The Right Thing when you clearly are not.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:41am
- SB2
  
  MW, common on KB if you haven’t noticed
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:39am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes, I have noticed
    
    *You labelled me an alt-right Trumpeter for reasons I’ve never been able to fathom (as I’ve never posted on Trump discussions or espoused Nazi/racist views).
    
    *You labelled me racist when I posted on authorities failing to respond to claims of sexual abuse.
    
    *You labelled me hysterical when I warned of a coming pandemic
    
    *You joined in troll-baiting calling me mad, and delusional when I queried Climate change science consensus.
    
    Toxic debate? No, there has never been debate…just relentless harassment, bigotry and abuse toward me from you and your fellow trolls.
    
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    June 26, 2021 1:46pm
kowtow

Anyone got an update on the Speak Up for Wimmin / Free Speech Union case that was in court yesterday .The one where councils wouldn’t allow them to use their facilities cos they were outraged on behalf of some men who want to be called wimmin ……
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June 26, 2021 9:27am
- Loddenthinks
  
  We/they won! The event went ahead last night at Palmerston North, and I believe the Auckland one will go ahead tomorrow.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:55am
I remember when

Just in case you missed this important piece of history.
For the first time since Olympic Park in 2015, in Townsville tonight, Sonny Bill Williams will step back into the ring.
As it forecast to be 27C in Townsville today it is almost back into the furnace.
Hope he has used plenty of CRC.
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June 26, 2021 9:31am
3-coil

Todd Muller is back in the news (white-anting the party that has given him so much, so many huge opportunities) but at least finally revealing himself as one of National’s untrustworthy “leakers”.
I’m glad he’s apparently got on top of all his mental health issues which he claimed caused his crumbling under the pressure of leading the party, but why has he now decided it’s smart to attack Nat MPs and the party from within? While he has decided he’s the man to reveal all the inside gossip on his caucus, he is evidently too stupid to remember the old adage “what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander”.
Public knowledge of some of the truths behind his capitulation last year will not do his current mental health any favours, but he will have nobody to blame but himself when it happens. Ironically, he will need a media manager of the highest calibre to survive that.
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June 26, 2021 9:31am
Gravelroad

Seems to be a slow day on KB so far – so, advice please!
Last week we received an invitation to attend a function locally where Judith Collins is to be the star guest. Ticket price $25.
Neither of us here are members of any political party.
What to do?
Would I want to pay money to see Ms Collins?
If so, why?
On the other hand, I probably would pay to hear Mr Seymour speak if he came to my town because I believe his party has something to offer.
Ms Ardern and Shaw would have to be paying me to meet them – and even then, I would not waste my time.
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June 26, 2021 9:34am
- cmm
  
  It sounds like you’ve answered your own question.
  
  I would return the invitation saying you will attend in 2022 if National have managed to find their spine again and, if so, will gladly pay $50 for a ticket then.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:39am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    It will have to be a real spine however, otherwise it’ll just be a repeat of John Key’s little shout-out in the early 2000’s about Welfare For Families being communism by stealth.
    
    I laughed when I heard that, already suspecting that WFF would become embedded and thus “untouchable” by a future National government.
    
    But I guess there were a chunk of National voters who heard that and said, “That’s my man”.
    
    Look for something similar from some upcoming Nat MP in the near future.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:55am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well, of course, Tom. Modern NZ political history has been a set pattern of National railing against anything introduced by a Labour government and then retaining every such policy when it its their own turn to govern.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:48am
    - Tall Man
      
      In his defense, WFF was well entrenched by helun and removing it would have been very hard on those who actually needed it as opposed to those who were already on decent money. It is a very hard “welfare” to remove but I believe the next National government will have to seriously look at welfare.
      
      I believe it needs to go but only as part of a total taxation overhaul and I doubt any party has the stomach for that in the current political climate.
      
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      June 26, 2021 3:20pm
      - artemisia
        
        National did make some tweaks to WFF without riots in the streets, so could potentially make more changes. From memory the changes were around trust income, fringe benefits, not reducing family income from business or investment losses.
        
        Labour successfully campaigned on interest free student loans and National tightened up by changes to eligibility and repayment.
        
        This government has specifically said it is looking to make changes that stick. Worked for them in the past. Not so much for taxpayers, still a few of us left.
        
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        June 26, 2021 4:39pm
- pdm
  
  G/Road
  
  Assuming the $25 is not going to test your budget – go.
  
  See if you can get a speaking part and tell Collins and others present that you/the country wants to see Cfusher Collins in action instead of the Crushed Collins we are seeing in the media.
  
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  June 26, 2021 9:49am
- lifesgood
  
  You should go. You are displaying a closed mind and appear to be believing everything you hear from the msm.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:06am
- Chuck Bird
  
  What part of the country are you in?
  
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  June 26, 2021 2:43pm
cmm

A very confusing police intelligence report has been reported in Stuff.

“In Canterbury gang tensions were at an “all-time high” following the arrival of the Mongols in the region, with fire bombings and drive-by shootings. Police say the current climate is “relatively mild”.”

Ok, all time high or “relatively mild”. Which is it?

Relatively mild compared to what? NZ 25 years ago or 1930s Chicago?

” The changing landscape had possibly caused an increased perception among those groups about what they saw as a need to own or carry firearms for protection.”

Perhaps, but maybe it is also down to the change in policing too.

“Inter-gang conflict had typically been followed by community-based resolution and mediation, the report found.”

Aah, there you have it. Instead of following up with some good old fashion head cracking policing, we engage with the criminals and legitimise them.

No wonder the gangs are emboldened.

The cops have abdicated their position in the violence pecking order (the point of cops is that they hold the state monopoly in violence). This has left a power vacuum that the gangs are fighting over to fill.

The only way out of this is for one group to fill that top spot again and reestablish the pecking order. The question is:
1) Will the cops step up and assert themselves again?
2) Will one of the gangs rise to dominance to fill the spot? If so, which one and how soon?

Woke policing is not policing. It is abdication. Coster, and Labour, needs to ditch this failed experiment.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/125565035/targeted-assassinations-becoming-more-prevalent-in-gang-scene
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June 26, 2021 9:35am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Something different. MAGA will be there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJWrSK6IljE
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June 26, 2021 9:47am
- curry4me
  
  Steve Otto (North Shore) : Thanks for that. I shared it to my FB page.
  
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  June 26, 2021 12:47pm
kowtow

UK Daily Telegraph reports that children’s winter fevers are “threatening to overwhelm some hospitals” ……… but but where’s our panicky UK correspondants from TV 1 and 3 when we need them .

They were all over the scamdemic ‘overwhelming’ hospitals , why not this?
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June 26, 2021 9:52am
I remember when

Isn’t it great that the Government is taking the lead on hate speech.
No hypocrisy there.
No doubt they will do a video of putdowns at Question Time to demonstrate acceptable behaviour.
No examples of attempting to change the public view by misleading information.
No spreading information to show those of a different view must be belittled and shown to be inferior.
No belittling of the opposition because you are bigger and have more members – bullying.
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June 26, 2021 9:52am
Durden

The current interpretation of Te Tiriti, and the ongoing power and resource grab, is nothing more than the result of sophistry of the so called elite — from both the Maori and Pakeha sides. One driven by sly opportunism symbolised currently by Willie Jackson and his Maori caucus but predominantly enabled by angst ridden, self-flaggelating whites of the Geoffrey Palmer kind. The English, in the name of the Crown, have historically proven their ability to screw up countries under their dominion when they leave e.g. India-Pakistan, Palestine-Israel etc etc. They are on their way to doing it gain.

Enabling this unfolding scenario are excuse providers and opinion influencing elite. Yet another of the academic elite, Maori woman Khylee Quince of AUT, is desperately trying to create a self-serving narrative, but presenting it as fact, as an explanation for Labour’s immigration idiocy which is currently blocking NZ’s economic recovery.!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/125559229/immigration-reset-allows-us-to-honour-the-bargain-struck-in-te-tiriti

Ms Quince seems seriously worried that the influx, advancement and reproduction among hardworking Pacifica, Chinese, Indians, Phillipino, Taiwanese, South American and non-English European cultures will overwhelm current English Pakeha majority. That would mean the elite redefined Tiriti principles would be laughed at, and out of the parliament and democratic governance institutions. Just imagine how Maori and their demands may be treated in New Xi-land.

“Key to this relationship is shifting focus from concerns about numbers of migrants to realising that our power and status as tangata whenua do not rely on our numbers, but on our position as first peoples and partners to Te Tiriti o Waitangi.”

So, here she is now, arguing for embedded minority rights for Maori (“power and status…do not rely on our numbers”) to control our country. Because she knows that while these spurious arguments that might work with parts of guilt ridden white English majority, it won’t wash with the clear-eyed immigrants who Maori want to categorize as third fourth and fifth class citizens under the He PuaPua’s imagined “bi-cultural” future for New Zealand.

Ask any immigrant or their kids, most will tell you that — ” ..there are some quite concerning racist views towards migrants by Māori.” Not “some” as Ms Quince likes to minimise, but blatant and plenty.

She justifies this by saying “tangata whenua have never been consulted on immigration law or policy since. This exclusion, along with perceptions that migrants are competing for jobs and resources that further entrenched iwi Māori at the bottom of New Zealand society, may provide some of the rationale for xenophobic views of some Māori.”

Maybe the Maori elite should get off the gravy train and go off and do some serious work on why Maori despite all the pandering and money still top negative statistics.

Maybe if they look within themselves, rather than always blaming others, they might find the answer.

And if you are going to the use the non-binding “United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples” as a stick to demand absolute authority for Maori (but not Moriori) , maybe someone should open up “UN’s Global Compact for Migration” and implement some of those agreements. Even though, Wynston Peters quoting “legal advice” signed it and said — “it is non-binding”.
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June 26, 2021 9:56am
- Than
  
  while these spurious arguments that might work with parts of guilt ridden white English majority
  
  Genuine question – are the guilt-ridden really a majority of whites (i.e. New Zealander’s of European descent)?
  
  Certainly that position is the majority within the far-left and within the current government (but I repeat myself…). But over the whole population, are a majority of white New Zealanders really that concerned about historic wrongs? Or are they just unwilling to speak up, worried about being screamed at with BS accusations of “racism”. My suspicion is the later.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:40am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori don’t have rights to be consulted under the Treaty. The prerogative to Govern is ceded to the Crown. The Treaty stopped their self population destruction–a fair price for their continuing existence even with limits.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:46am
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Numerous courts cases over the last 35 years, from the Court of Appeal, the Privy Council and the Supreme Court would say you are wrong. All governments over the last 35 years have accepted these rulings.
    
    That is not going to change, no matter who is the government.
    
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    June 26, 2021 10:51am
    - kowtow
      
      In a democracy , the principle is that the government represents the people through parliament .
      
      And if govts’ had been honest , open and representative over those last 35 years they’d have put these issues to the people in binding referenda , rather than through the “safe” option of activist/progressive courts .
      
      And please , the notion of non binding referenda that the ruling political elite class use in New Zealand to give an aura of representative democracy has got to be one of the most cynical ploys in the political arena of our common law jurisdictions.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:42am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Activist Courts like activist minorities are an alternative to the streets.
      
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      June 26, 2021 1:16pm
- cmm
  
  It is illogical to create a gravy train and not expect people to climb on it.
  
  The solution is not to ask people to get off the gravy train, but to eliminate it.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:51am
igm

Hear tell a 24 year old Somali was the killer in Germany’s latest mass attack
. . . the religion of peace strikes again. Bet there is a MSM blackout.
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June 26, 2021 9:59am
- MCos
  
  So it was a Somali who killed three people.
  As the NRA might say religions don’t kill people, people kill people.
  BTW
  I read/heard about it several times from a number of sources before you rubbed the sleep out of your eye this morning.
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:36am
- SB2
  
  igm, no black out by MSM. Here for example,’
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-57618354
  
  But hey what to expect coming from especially you.
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:46am
Yvette

Hate speech
The proposed changes would cover written and spoken word, or online platforms, and cover speech that intentionally incites hatred on the basis of sex, marital status, religious belief, ethical belief (meaning the lack of a religious belief), colour, race, ethnic or national origins, disability, age, political opinion, employment status, family status, or sexual orientation. They would make it a crime to “intentionally incite/stir up, maintain or normalise hatred” – Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jun/25/new-zealand-moves-to-toughen-hate-speech-laws-in-wake-of-christchurch-attacks

“Political opinion” was also mentioned on 1 News. That’s a little worry …

And just to further defy any useful definition –
Justice Minister Kris Faafoi said the types of comments toward Hubbard wouldn’t likely meet the prosecution test because it’s not targeted at a group.
He said one-on-one hatred isn’t necessarily covered under the law changes, and the bar will be higher when defining hate speech.
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June 26, 2021 10:07am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The distention for ‘political opinion’ would perhaps be the difference between saying “I hate you for supporting NZ First” and saying “all NZ First supporters should be exterminated”.
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:45am
- SB2
  
  Yvette, such laws need measured and serious consideration especially if we want to build an inclusive and and diverse society.
  
  Obviously, there are those you don’t including some on KB IMO
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:50am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  But making everyone nervous to say stuff on the off chance they are prosecuted by some arbitrary capricious official is the whole point and danger of such laws – silencing a whole population through random threat of violence (arrest and prosecution). All power delivered to hands of unelected officials who potentially have agendas that are not in best interests of democracy, and more scarily govt who might be selecting far left zealots to fill those roles.
  
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  June 26, 2021 7:09pm
Nickc2

Don’t know where this originated from but it makes sense.
And so the cookie starts to crumble… Daylight killers… The masks begin to fall off!
“The Chinese biological laboratory in Wuhan is owned by Glaxosmithkline, which (accidentally) owns Pfizer!” (the one who makes the vaccine against the virus which was (accidentally) started at the Wuhan Biological Lab and which was (accidentally) funded by Dr. Fauci, who (accidentally) promotes the vaccine!
“GlaxoSmithKline is (accidentally) managed by the finance division of Black Rock, which (accidentally) manages the finances of the Open Foundation Company (Soros Foundation), which (accidentally) manages the French AXA! “Soros (accidentally) owns the German company Winterthur, which (accidentally) built a Chinese laboratory in Wuhan and was bought by the German Allianz, which (coincidentally) has Vanguard as a shareholder, who (coincidentally) is a shareholder of Black Rock,” which (coincidentally) controls central banks and manages about a third of global investment capital.
“Black Rock” is also (coincidentally) a major shareholder of MICROSOFT, owned by Bill Gates, who (coincidentally) is a shareholder of Pfizer (which – remember? Sells a miracle vaccine) and (coincidentally) is now the first sponsor of the ‘WHO!
Now you understand how a dead bat sold in a wet market in China has infected the WHOLE PLANET!
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June 26, 2021 10:18am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Wrong.
  
  The Wuhan Institute of Virology is part of the Chinese Academy of Science governed by the PRC.
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wuhan_Institute_of_Virology
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:34am
  - Nickc2
    
    You may be right Maggy but there’s no mention of the Wuhan Institute of Vrology or Chinese Academy of Science in my post.
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:05pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Got a whole collections of bad guys there – Fauci, Soros, Gates. Surely the Clintons and Bidens figure too…
  /s
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:42am
  - Nickc2
    
    Some rise to the top immediately, others take a little time.
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:08pm
- amospicton
  
  Your assertions about ownership are ridiculous. You too own most of those companies via your Kiwisaver account.
  
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  June 26, 2021 2:47pm
CAKE FACE1

Does the Prime Minister have a Messiah Complex? Here are the signs:

1. Anxiety, agitation, nervousness and tension?
Yes, all of the above. She states that she suffers from an anxiety disorder…

2. Declaration of the desire to split away from the group?
Yes. We dumped all our allies, and venture down the long and winding woke path alone.

3. A need to be clean and pure:
Yes. With Rona, NZ stands alone with the extreme elimination experiment.

4. The need to shout psalms or verses from the Bible:
Yes. She worships the new religion of woke. She shouts the nonsensical scripture from the rooftops.

5. Delivery of a sermon in a holy place. The sermon is typically based on a plea to humankind to adopt a more wholesome, moral, simple way of life. Such sermons are typically ill-prepared and disjointed:
Yes, she does this in an infantile manner, invoking Easter bunnies, teddy bears, tooth fairies et al.

Dear oh dear…
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June 26, 2021 10:29am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

BBC reports police officer Derek Chauvin sentenced to 22 years for the killing of George Floyd.

On the steps of the Courthouse, a Floyd family supporter tells waiting media…..”Black people of America will not feel safe until they can walk the streets of this country without fear of the Police. Black lives matter!”

https://twitter.com/EdwinVcity/status/1407570314052430017
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June 26, 2021 10:29am
- Fidel Cashflow
  
  In the real world, the crime statistics show that Blacks have far more to fear from other Blacks than they do White people in general or White cops in particular.
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    You say…..
    
    https://twitter.com/EdwinVcity/status/1407570314054230017
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:10am
    - Fidel Cashflow
      
      Yep. I posted the same clip yesterday. Just another day in the Hood.
      
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      June 26, 2021 11:44am
  - kowtow
    
    Same with the appalling knife crime epidemic in the UK.
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:46am
  - SB2
    
    Untrue! , FBI stats show blacks and other minorities like Jews have more to fear from attacks by whites than vice versa,
    
    https://www.chicagotribune.com/nation-world/ct-whites-hate-crimes-20170106-story.html
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:56am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Cwertainly not the case in your hood – Mt Roskill !
      
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      June 26, 2021 12:10pm
      - MCos
        
        You’ll be struggling to back that up, young Maggie.
        On the other hand the only hate speech prosecution in NZ centre round an incident in Remuera.
        Fancy that.
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/our-truth/300216192/our-truth-t-mtou-pono-the-1977-hate-speech-attack-on-jews-in-aucklands-remuera
        
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        June 26, 2021 12:48pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        SETTING THE RECORD STRAIGHT
        
        Sorry Cossie…but you are spreading ‘misinformation’ with your post!
        
        If you read the full story and that published in the article from the Auckland Star, and do a little more investigation into the perpetrator, ‘Colin King-Ansell’, you will find he drove across to Remuera to deliver his anti-Semetic vile…. from his home in Mt Roskill !
        
        LOL!!
        
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        June 26, 2021 1:23pm
    - Swifty
      
      Why don’t you quote the stats for ALL crimes instead of just ‘hate’ crimes SB2?
      
      Is it because the evidence is overwhelming that in the US black victims of crime have been robbed, assaulted, burgled, murdered and otherwise victimised by other blacks the great majority of the time?
      
      Or is it because in your haste to rush to google to find something, anything, to derail the argument you have conflated hate crime with all crime?
      
      Either way you have proved once again your sobriquet here is well deserved.
      
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      June 26, 2021 12:55pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Well if people of colour cannot be racist, then it follows they cannot commit hate crimes or indeed any crimes in neo Marxist world.
        
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        June 26, 2021 7:14pm
    - cmm
      
      Bullshit stephie.
      
      “There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps… then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” : Rev Jessie Jackson
      
      Sure there is irrational fear of white people due to crap in the media, but the stats are overwhelming: blacks are far more likely to die by the hands of other blacks in USA.
      
      Same goes here too. Maori are far more likely to be killed by other Maori.
      
      As for “hate crimes” – that’s far more a matter of asymmetric reporting. Black people are far more likely to make allegations of racism (even when completely unfounded) than white people.
      
      A black student failing a test quickly gets escalated into racism and “hate crime” allegations.
      
      Pretty much every major employer in USA has racist (against whites) policies like affirmative action. How many of those CEOs are being charged with “hate crimes”?
      
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      June 26, 2021 5:41pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

I see the Lambda variant has now emerged.

If nothing else, we’re all going to learn the Greek alphabet.
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June 26, 2021 10:44am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well, if the variants are now up to lambda, where the heck are epsilon, zeta, eta, theta, iota, and kappa?
  
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  June 26, 2021 11:39am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    Epsilon, zeta, eta, theta.
    Panagiamou!!!
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:53am
  - crikey
    
    https://www.who.int/en/activities/tracking-SARS-CoV-2-variants/
    
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    June 26, 2021 11:57am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Txs
      
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      June 26, 2021 2:31pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s all Greek to me…
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:22pm
    - rangitoto
      
      It’s wrayyycist. Why pick on the Greeks?
      
      8 2
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      June 26, 2021 3:03pm
      - kowtow
        
        Milky is misquoting Shakespeare .
        
        Julius Caesar.
        
        Act I , Scene 2 .
        
        Casca to Cassius .
        
        “……..it was Greek to me.”
        
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        June 26, 2021 4:24pm
Loddenthinks

Well, credit where it’s due – not sure if Aussie captain Tim Paine rang the radio station, or whether they rang him. Either way he was gracious enough to admit that he was wrong about the WTC Final, praised the Black Caps for the way they go about their business and said they’d played really well and deserved the win.

He also admitted he was dirty that the Aussies didn’t manage to do enough to get to the final, which shows insight and perspective, so well done Tim Paine.

NB: I don’t give a crap what the Aussie skipper or anyone else thinks about the Black Caps, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, But it was decent of him to eat some humble pie.
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June 26, 2021 10:46am
- Loddenthinks
  
  Sorry – the link to the article and his radio interview – https://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/cricket-australia-test-captain-tim-paine-apologises-for-predicting-india-would-beat-black-caps-comfortably-in-wtc-final/M7BDKE2SYHNNDCU6DXG3FZNSM4/?ref=readmore
  
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  June 26, 2021 10:49am
- Tony
  
  It was good of him to show some humility.
  
  But really, what he said in the first place could be justified on the basis of his recent experience with the BlackCaps in Australia (beaten 3-0 by Auzzie) and the remarkable feat by India in Australian conditions recently.
  
  So, he could be fully justified in making that prediction.
  
  Although I am an avid fan of the Blackcaps and am incredibly proud of what they achieved, I still think India is the best team in the world for all conditions.
  
  The Blackcaps themselves would probably hold the same view I suspect.
  
  There is no doubt that the conditions that presented definitely favoured our style of play. But the Indians were still very competitive despite that.
  
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  June 26, 2021 12:00pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The weak showing in Australia in 2019-20 was a huge disappointment. A team not much different from today’s showed very little appetite for the fight. NZ cricketers still seems to have a huge mental barrier to overcome to perform well in tests in Australia. I think Stephen Fleming after a thrashing in the early 2000s said something like you can’t really expect us to neat Australia in Australia.
    
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    June 26, 2021 12:21pm
  - MCos
    
    “I still think India is the best team in the world for all conditions.”
    
    Apparently not.
    We beat them the last two time over here, but I’d expect they’ll be firm favourites when we pop over there at the end of the year.
    
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    June 26, 2021 1:15pm
- MCos
  
  Interestingly the Aussies dipped out on a place in the final because they were docked points for slow over rates.
  
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  June 26, 2021 1:18pm
SB2

The latest from the much-vaunted Taiwan regarding their present Covid 19 debacle.

Taiwan COVID-19 death rate twice world average, revealing unreported infections due to DPP manipulation

DPP to be held accountable for humanitarian disaster: expert

https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202106/1227035.shtml

Now just imagine if this was Jacinda’s New Zealand.

As Fred Dagg reminds us,

We dont know how luck we are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYvMeT2GC14
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June 26, 2021 12:02pm
- Humble Capitalist
  
  Yeah the genious Jacinda went hard and early like in the first month of the pandemic when you could fly in from a COVID hotspot and be given a sheet of paper at the airport. It would have been easy to have even less deaths given our remote location, low population density and sheep like populace.
  Yes SB2 we are very very lucky to be geographically where we are in the world.
  
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  June 26, 2021 12:52pm
  - Happy1
    
    Yup H.C. but in the 1918 pandemic we had those advantages and more. No air travel, population only 1 million and we ended up about the worst in the world. 9000 (0.9%) of population dead.
    
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    June 26, 2021 4:20pm
    - Tall Man
      
      Spanish flu was highly fatal for fit young people.
      
      Maybe we had more of those than elsewhere 😉
      
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      June 26, 2021 6:21pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om1jL5c_F7M

Madcow’s Show Ain’t News. Who Knew?

A judge has ruled that Rachel Maddows show isn’t news. [9:45]
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June 26, 2021 12:15pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Sounds similar to Fox News arguing in court that viewers couldn’t be expected to be providing factual commentary.
  And this perhaps gets to a wider point. Most people watching or listening to the likes of Maddow, Carlson or our own Mike Hosking would not expect to be hearing facts – they are tuning in precisely for the sort of biased commentary that affirms their own world views.
  
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  June 26, 2021 12:46pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yeah Madcow is news – fake news
  
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  June 26, 2021 1:57pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/7ay9im1fg_w/

Camel Humiliated in Texas.

Kamala Harris gets utterly humiliated in Texas as she finally, visits the southern border, well kinda! In this video, we’re going to look at the disaster of a day that Harris had in her visit to El Paso, we’re going to look at precisely WHY she had to visit the border, and we’re going to see how this was but the latest in a string of humiliations to beset one of the most cringe worthy vice-presidents in our lifetime. [She might not have noticed the demonstrators and signs from the back of an armoured limo. It’s good news all the same.]
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June 26, 2021 12:16pm
Maggie Pie

And what is it with 1ZB?
There’s some cockney clown filling in on the ‘DRS’ while Marty’s away.
Honestly, you can hardly understand a word he’s saying!
Surely they could get a New Zealander to do the job.

Just saying.
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June 26, 2021 1:57pm
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  He is a modern Kiwi Maggie Pie. Get used to him.
  
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  June 26, 2021 2:05pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Ma was just telling me he does ZB on a Sunday night as well.
    She can’t stand him either.
    Reckons all he ever talks about is Manchester United and old episodes of Coronation Street. Go figure.
    
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    June 26, 2021 2:21pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Unusual to find a cockney Man U supporter.
      
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      June 26, 2021 3:10pm
- greybeard
  
  Miles Davis?
  He has been around for years.
  And don’t knock his accent, a lot of our parents and grandparents had the same accents, or at least accents from other parts of GB.
  
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  June 26, 2021 7:00pm
MrTips

Boris Johnson is turning out to be a total drop kick. Not only does he sack, then let partially back in, his lying toad of a COVID modeller Neil Ferguson who was caught breaking his own dictates to have it away with someone else’s wife, but now he’s got the real life Woody Hancock caught doing the same!

Nip both of them in the scrotum and send them on their miserable way you plonking great disaster of a haircut. Do you REALLY want to start a revolution?
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June 26, 2021 2:54pm
- kowtow
  
  Hancock’s finished .
  
  ‘Hands Face Space’ , they told the great British public and there’s a photo of him kissing his bit of stuff , hand cupped on her bum .
  
  Nothing tells the Plebs more than that image ” Do as we tell tell you , not as we do”
  
  It’s even better than being caught going for a bike ride during lock down.
  
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  June 26, 2021 4:30pm
Suze Wainwright

Are people still naming their pets Ashley & Jacinda?
7 1
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June 26, 2021 2:58pm
- Tall Man
  
  Crocodiles and monkeys maybe…..
  
  4 1
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  June 26, 2021 6:19pm
cmm

A beautiful sight on Flightradar

Cindy leaves the mainland.

https://www.flightradar24.com/BOE7571/28305b04
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June 26, 2021 3:34pm
- rangitoto
  
  Would be even better if leaving offshore never to return.
  
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  June 26, 2021 4:31pm
  - sooty
    
    She’s canceled her jolly to Australia, because of covid!
    
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    June 26, 2021 7:36pm
Maggie Pie

Thort this sharing with the group.
It’s the ‘free-range asylum’ coming to a Hood near you 🙁

Just had to shoot up to NW to get some Naan bread.
As I was sitting in the rh lane waiting to turn into Remuera Rd, here’s this homeless looking individual walking along the middle of the road towards me, carrying a hand written cardboard sign… ” COINS PLEASE”
As he came alongside, I looked up out of the sunroof and politely told him…. “People don’t carry coins anymore”.
Know what the cheeky bugger said, “Notes are good”

Fortunately, the green arrow had come on by then, so I floored-it and headed into the supermarket carpark.
Immediately called 105 and reported him to the police.

Heading back home about 15 min later, there’s 2 police cars at the top of the Avenue and 4 cops talking to this guy on the footpath.
BIG- UP’s from me to the boys & girls from Newmarket!!
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June 26, 2021 4:27pm
cmm

There are just so many things wrong here:

Is this just racism?

A fat woman (who’s doing pretty well to reduce her weight) is denied NZ residence due to health concerns.

Would that same ruling be applied if she was brown?

Good on her though for doing something about it.

A bit later they interview a “fat scholar” at Massey – also an immigrant who faced the same battle.

This fat scholar claims that linking health to BMI is “without any kind of evidential basis”. She pointed to the All Blacks, who no-one would consider obese, but they were classed that on the BMI scale.

Well that’s being a bit silly. Yes, the BMI is a bit broken for calling bulked up athletes in the 30-36 range obese, but Bezuidenhout probably still has a BMI of around 45 (and was over 50). That’s a very different matter.

While the BMI classification has a crisp line of obesity at 30, clearly that’s not the whole picture. The higher your BMI the worse the impact. To claim that all people with a BMI over 30 have the same risk profiles is patently ridiculous.

The evidence that obesity (especially severe obesity of 40+) is linked to poor health outcomes is overwhelming – even higher than that between smoking and bad health. The “fat scholar” should be ashamed.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300341891/too-fat-for-nz-mum-cant-lose-weight-fast-enough-for-immigration-officials
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June 26, 2021 4:50pm
- greybeard
  
  So what would Chris Fat-Boy have to say about this ?
  
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  June 26, 2021 6:58pm
- fightingtemeraire
  
  Have you ever seen the Lady from Massey???
  
  She is like a 100 gun Ship of the Line under Full Sail!!!
  
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  June 26, 2021 7:41pm
  - cmm
    
    Wow – lots to love!
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/fat-why-your-body-is-not-a-problem-to-be-fixed/HDLSTQEG2F5QU6QRINOQEQRX4Q/
    
    To think she’s using her university position as credibility to spout her nonsense. Massey: hang your head in shame.
    
    There is a reason we have stigmas – they are generally for things that give poor outcomes.
    
    Being BMI 30-35 (beefy All Black) is one thing. This woman wouldn’t get change from 50. Massive fatness IS a problem.
    
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    June 26, 2021 8:35pm
MrTips

Finally, someone’s actually behaving according to what the data is telling us – plus using common sense and historical record.

The data all says vaccination reduces severity, symptoms and spread of COVID. Vaccination is key.

The mutations in COVID are showing increased infectivity and less fatality. This is what we already know about viruses and is not surprising. The “higher fatality” of the delta variant is bullshit and comes from a dodgy data release via the awesomely magnificent liar, Matt Hancock.

Pandemics run their course – 2/3 yrs is usual for flu and other viruses. We are coming up to 2 years now.

Available drugs like Ivermectin and Budesonide show some efficacy. Others are being developed – therapy options are improving.

Good job Singapore – hopefully others will take note.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/covid-19-coronavirus-singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-virus/EKXDOTWZYMUGFRRMF553CH2T5U/
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June 26, 2021 4:56pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Good work Singapore. … Meanwhile back in NZ,
  
  “Newborns with burning temperatures and mums who’d just given birth were forced to wait on the floor at Middlemore Hospital for hours as the spread of winter viruses soars.
  
  Experts warn hospital visits for flu-like illnesses are skyrocketing like never before due to babies and children having weaker immune systems from lockdown last year.”
  
  Respiratory disease up more than 5 fold and infrastructure at hospital sub par. Imagine if we’d spent our taxes on beds and medicine instead of slogans and media. Why are sick people sitting in a room with well people. Why aren’t sick contagious people sitting in their car and getting tested outside like covid.
  
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  June 26, 2021 5:23pm
  - cmm
    
    Unintended consequences are a bitch.
    
    But at least 80,000 grannies got saved.
    
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    June 26, 2021 5:28pm
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  I have no medical expertise, only 73 years of experience to draw on so please take this for what it’s worth.
  
  The successful bugs that get to stay around don’t tend to kill their hosts. If this stays true for Covid19 then the version of the virus that survives (if we don’t get to eradicate it with modern medicines) will hopefully be the least lethal one.
  
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  June 26, 2021 6:03pm
cmm

Maori people can’t be bothered getting vaccinated, so we must put a pause on Aussies coming to NZ.

Clearly this separatism of “Maori health providers” etc does not work. Clearly this system is broken. Unfortunately the activists and Brongos have taken over and made it into a huge trough.

If the “Maori health providers” were providing any value then Maori health would exceed the health of others because they would be able to access more services. So either:
1) Maori health providers are a scam and are actually undermining Maori health. We should not be funding them any more, let alone increasing their funding.
2) Maori are exercising a free choice and should thus accept the consequences.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/125558632/call-to-cap-transtasman-arrivals-as-mori-vaccine-rates-lag
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June 26, 2021 5:00pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  So why do Stuff NZ refer to Maori as ‘Mori’ in that link?
  I understood Maori ate all the Mori.
  
  Correct moi if I’m wrong?
  
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  June 26, 2021 5:47pm
  - cmm
    
    The ā doesn’t work in URLs so they drop it.
    
    Can’t substitute in an “a” because the wokists would give you a pasting for Maori instead of Māori.
    
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    June 26, 2021 5:50pm
cmm

PRiNZess’ flight in CINDY1 from CHC to WLG this arvo would have burned about 2.5 tonnes of fossils and generated about 8 tonnes of CO2.

Today CINDY1 has flown from Auckland to Chch to Wellington then back to Auckland – consuming probably 10 tonnes of fuel and generating 40 tonnes of CO2.

According to the Magic Internet, a cow produces about 6000l of CO2 a day. This is approx 13 kg of CO2 a day.

So just today, CINDY1 generated the same CO2 as over 3000 cows.

The 3000 cows would have produced about 36 tonnes of milk today. What did Cindy produce?
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June 26, 2021 6:11pm
- sooty
  
  Shit.
  
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  June 26, 2021 7:32pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  But we are in late June and as most cockies have a calving date after 1st July, those 3000 cows would not be producing much milk today or tomorrow.
  
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  June 26, 2021 8:44pm
Maggie Pie

Good news to end the day….

Police have just arrested that low scum who tried to steal the 69 yo lady’s car in the New Lynn Mall on Wednesday and putting her in hospital.

And another big ups to the Police for releasing the piece-of-filths photo to the Herald so quicly.

What’s the betting he gets bail?
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June 26, 2021 7:44pm

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