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September 5, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 05 September 2021

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

You will recall that DPF blogged recently that New Zealand no longer had the lowest percentage of people fully vaccinated in the OECD. Well those Mexicans heard the call and we are now again last in the OECD. New Zealand is on 25.7 percent and Mexico 27.2 percent as of yesterday.

Of course many non OECD countries are ahead of New Zealand. In fact 89 countries are now doing better at vaccination rates than New Zealand.

https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/covid-vaccine-tracker-global-distribution/

The PM is going to need to draw on all her communications skills to spin this into a good picture. “number 90 globally” is not a good look
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September 5, 2021 8:04am
- Suze Wainwright
  
  Yes, but the Govt’s trumpeters are now heralding that it’s not all about the vaccination rate (just like last year it wasn’t all about the economy).
  
  Kind of makes you wonder what this Govt does think it’s all about…? (Or maybe what their supporters think it’s all about?)
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:19am
  - Spoff
    
    Its not about treatment, that’s for sure:
    
    Ivermectin: a multifaceted drug of Nobel prize-honoured distinction with indicated efficacy against a new global scourge, COVID-19
    
    A.D.Santin Department of Obstetrics & Gynecology, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, CT, USA
    
    D.E.Scheim – US Public Health Service, Inactive Reserve, Blacksburg, VA, USA.
    
    P.A.McCullough – Texas A & M College of Medicine, Dallas, TX, USA
    
    M.Yagisawa Ōmura Satoshi – Memorial Institute, Infection Control Research Center, Kitasato University, Tokyo, Japan
    
    T.J.Borody – Centre for Digestive Diseases, New South Wales, Australia
    
    14-fold reductions in excess deaths with IVM use in Peru, then 13-fold increase after IVM restricted
    
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2052297521000883
    
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    September 5, 2021 7:28pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Of course deflection is the name of the game. She might point to Taiwan as only having 2 jabbed 4%.
  
  So aren’t we doing well compared to the country which has been the gold standard in how to beat to Rona.
  
  PS. Sort of disputes the gotta vax everyone to eliminate Covid.
  Look at Taiwans stats/graphs and the recent surge which has been almost eliminated.
  and shock horror. Low vax rate.
  https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/taiwan/
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:32am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Look also how China and the WHO have tried to screw Taiwan’s access to vaccines.
    
    https://apnews.com/article/business-health-coronavirus-pandemic-philanthropy-coronavirus-vaccine-e92f1dcee640906bfea3a4a446710779
    
    https://www.reuters.com/world/china/taiwan-says-china-blocked-deal-with-biontech-covid-19-shots-2021-05-26/
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:13pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I know a bit about Taiwan. About 800 have died and they were in lockdown for months.
    
    They have low vaccination rates because they can’t secure vaccines.
    
    Please stop spreading misinformation.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:16pm
    - Jack5
      
      Taiwan has started using its own Covid-19 vaccine, developed by Medigen Vaccine Biologics. This is before the final round of trial are completed, in Paraguay.
      
      By the way, for pandemic-aholics, this Reuters news site is good value:
      
      https://graphics.reuters.com/world-coronavirus-tracker-and-maps/
      
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      September 5, 2021 3:47pm
    - Ra Henare
      
      The phrase half empty or half full springs to mind.
      My half full says.
      Yes 800 died. In a brief spurt (25+ million people= 35/Million)
      
      Lockdowns were not Level 4 as I understand it.
      https://www.cdc.gov.tw/En/Bulletin/Detail/vlmAORqyqEntz1Tr_Ls7DQ?typeid=158
      
      Your half empty says.
      
      Taiwan’s low vax rate is not their fault(never said it was).
      They have had lockdowns for months(I never mentioned lockdowns)
      
      I am spreading mis information?
      Pray tell me what is this mis information you refer to?
      
      Benedict, I enjoy your usually rational and well thought out comments on KB.
      But maybe this time I am confused by your response. Misinformation?
      
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      September 5, 2021 5:25pm
- snowy
  
  Never underestimate Labour’s ability to fuck things up
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:46am
- CaptainCompromise
  
  So either people don’t want the vaccine or we’ve effectively run out.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:48am
- PeeJay
  
  so we are now in a race against mexico for last place. I’m just going to ponder that for a bit! Wow!
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:58am
- Humble Capitalist
  
  Team get me a graph by 1.o7pm and make sure you cherry pick our best days again
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:03am
- kowtow
  
  How do we stand in the ICU beds stakes ?
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:10am
  - sooty
    
    Probably last in the OCED, as well!
    
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    September 5, 2021 5:17pm
    - fernglas
      
      I think it’s 3.6 per 100,000, just ahead of Mexico, which is in last place. https://www.oecd.org/coronavirus/en/data-insights/intensive-care-beds-capacity
      
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      September 5, 2021 6:14pm
- cmm
  
  Benedict: As I posted at the time, NZ was never ahead of Mexico for fully vaccinated.
  
  NZ only was slightly ahead of Mexico if you included partially vaccinated (1-jab).
  
  Since that amazing NZ performance was from a once off peak of vaccinations that cannot be sustained because the juice is not being delivered fast enough. With that, NZ could well have fallen behind Mexico on partial vaccinations again.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:16am
  - tf78
    
    cmm – it may be a cunning plan that we’re not all vaccinated when the true results of Covid usefulness comes to light.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:38am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Indeed Michael Baker now saying it may be a good thing we are having a slow roll-out.
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/slow-covid-19-vaccine-rollout-could-help-new-zealand-in-long-run-professor-michael-baker-says.html
      
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      September 5, 2021 2:16pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Another day in forced lockdown.
  
  I am so over all this covid nonsense.
  
  Watching an old uk series called survivors.
  
  A virus escapes or is released from a laboratory and kills 99 plus % of the population.
  
  Who would do that sort of research.
  
  And here we are a virus escapes from, classified, 99 plus % survive.
  
  Totalitarian governments take advantage to seize control.
  
  So who would NZ on air fund.
  
  Dear benevolent leader saves the people, or out of control totalitarian government.
  
  Maybe we should let sleeping dogs lie.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:29am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Join up to ‘Voices for Freedom’. They are fighting this tyranny.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:56am
- softail 1450
  
  Benedict Yu, No need for her to spin at all as She’s got terrorism going again and the entire World are waiting for her every word with bated breath, she’s amazeballs..
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:09am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  What if you take into account “booked for vaccination”? Cindy seems to love those numbers! We could be first in the world 🙂
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:22am
  - Overworked
    
    As long as noone mentions the mystery cancellations. Has happened to 4 people in my close circle of family and friends, all over the last couple of weeks.
    
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    September 5, 2021 12:53pm
    - Aurelia
      
      Remember it’s illegal to sell stuff you know you don’t have in stock…..
      
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      September 5, 2021 1:58pm
- Kevin Herlihy
  
  New Zealand’s Ministry of Health has posted updated figures on vaccinations:
  30% Fully vaccinated 1,264,629
  57% 1 dose 2, 419,970
  71% booked in or had first dose 3,004,860
  Check their website for more accurate data.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:52am
- Old.Mickey.Blue.Eyes
  
  more government failure, no surprise https://hswn.org/2021/09/02/decisions-behind-the-mask/
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:09am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Mexico and the others are welcome to be ahead on vaccinations and also cases of Delta infection.
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:13pm
JibberJabber

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/2021/09/politicians-can-change-laws-to-prison.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=Feed: AsianInvasion2019 (Asian Invasion 2019)

A terrorist, a guest in New Zealand who could have been chucked out, who was of no benefit to New Zealand whatsoever given his track record as he is clearly as the Police have been at pains to point out, human pond scum. Well he had his rights and freedoms upheld constantly by a weak judiciary lacking creativity and politicians equally unmotivated.

This is a time in 2020 and 2021 where the New Zealand government has stripped law abiding citizens the freedom to exit their own home and go to work, school or even for a drink with their mates.

They can do anything they damn please if they can do this.

At the commencement of this charade even that was ruled to be unlawful. But justified. That opens up a chasm of space for when something is really really important, the state acting unlawfully in such a massive way affecting 5 million people is even okay – when justified.

The police had to take care of business where others with more power and status in the system have failed so miserably.

Not so eloquently.

With a bullet.
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September 5, 2021 8:06am
- Ruahine
  
  Cactus Kate succinctly exposes the measly mouth and weasel words of Ardern and the Labour Gov’t.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:22am
  - jon
    
    Excuses excuses excuses from Ardern and the wokster Police Commissioner at the 2pm standup yesterday. Australia’s PeterDutton former Home Affairs minister, now Defence minister, would have cut to the chase and sorted all this nonsense in a heart beat. Why are we such a soft touch of a country?
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:07am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    The unwashed don’t read what Cactus Kate writes. It is read by say 1.72 people. Move on.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:23am
    - Tom Hunter
      
      I’ve had to uptick you since it is so grimly true.
      
      Watch for the next National government to save all the journalists who have pushed the opposite arguments to the likes of Cactus Kate.
      
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      September 5, 2021 12:31pm
    - Cactus Kate
      
      I am reliably informed I at least have 2+delta readers.
      
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      September 6, 2021 10:26pm
- JibberJabber
  
  ↑
  
  Elites who operate this system of justice are clamouring over themselves to claim there is nothing they could have done within the boundaries of the law.
  
  What about outside the current boundaries that could have been fixed up later?
  
  Watch the spin in the next few days that this was not possible. I do not just mean the PM.
  
  And here they had a piece of scum that was so infamous that he was even known to the PM. Media even knew about him.
  
  They all knew he was a clear and imminent danger to New Zealand in the community so much so he was under surveillance.
  
  And the kicker, the cops pleaded with Fitzgerald J. to listen to how much of a mentally far-gone shitbag trainee terrorist this guy was.
  
  Fitzgerald noted the extreme concerns of police, saying she didn’t know if they were right, but “I sincerely hope they are not.”
  
  That did not age well. The stuff of an oops meme.
  
  S (for Shitbag) then attacked a Corrections Officer for fun on his way out and got bail for breaking a jaw.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:23am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Sorry jibber Downtick by accident
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:44am
- hullkiwi
  
  Jj, even worse, he came here on a student visa and very quickly demonstrated he was not a student. So, he had no right to remain.
  
  NZ needs the Australian approach to these types.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:35am
  - The Boss
    
    Sadly, this is manna from heaven for a certain Winston Peters. Remember him?
    Don’t be surprised if he gets back into parliament on the back of this terrible attack
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:16am
    - sooty
      
      Surprised me he has not had his say yet,
      Is he feeling poorly?
      Not like the normal Whinestone to let such a large opportunity go to waste!
      
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      September 5, 2021 5:28pm
  - Jack5
    
    The student visa scheme was always a rort.
    
    Hundreds came in purporting to study subjects such as computer programming, or even just English.
    
    Few ended up in high-skill careers. A huge number ended up driving taxis, delivering pizzas, behind the counter at Noel Leeming, selling electricity as they waited for a business opening – or, citizenship so they could move through the back door to Australia.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:03pm
    - PeeJay
      
      still is a sort, just on pause! The university system struggles financially without them. I know lecturers that have been hauled before performance meetings because they failed an overseas student. If the student failed, it was the teachers fault apparently. The fact said student should never have been in the class in the first place is not the point. Lecturers eventually stop failing them and just give them the lowest marks possible. Their attitude is ‘industry’ will sort it out. This isn’t just BA degrees – I know the same has happened in engineering degrees. All just a game really!
      
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      September 5, 2021 3:14pm
  - CJames
    
    Even more to the point, what was he a refugee from? His mother said he got radicalised when he was back in Sri Lanka in 2016. So a country he was fleeing from in 2011 was OK for him to go back 5 years later. And how did he pay for the trip? It couldn’t have been cheap.
    Looks like yet again the NZ taxpayer has been taken for a ride.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:13pm
    - CJames
      
      I see Cactus Kate has picked up on these points too. Looks very much like the authorities and government knew there was a serious issue years ago but didn’t see it as important enough to do anything about it.
      
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      September 5, 2021 3:38pm
      - CJames
        
        Cactus Kate’s articles on the terrorist have been disappeared. Maybe someone threatened legal action. Be interesting to know what has happened and why.
        
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        September 5, 2021 5:38pm
      - Cactus Kate
        
        I retracted the post until I contacted NZH and RNZ to ask them to clarify the point about where the terrorist was. It appears his family came to visit him then return to SL but he never left to go back to SL.
        
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        September 6, 2021 10:28pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  Ardern has blood on her hands. If the judges thought rightly or wrongly that this POS could not be jailed or deported then Ardern could have changed the law like she has done on other issues. However, this might of upset the Greens or the Maori Party.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:38am
  - PaulL
    
    Yes, what it’s actually shining a light on is the refugee system. It’s not news that many lie or stretch the truth to be classified as refugees, and that our system has so many checks and balances that you can drag the process out forever. Maybe this will be the encouragement to fix it.
    
    One place I’d start would be the family reunification visas. It’ll be interesting to see how many refugees still want to come to NZ when it turns out they can’t bring their whole extended family once they’re in.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:22am
    - Ruawai
      
      What about Karel Sroubek, has he been deported, another long drawn out affair and Dotcom. Seems once you get in the justice system you are here for life.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:14am
    - Jack5
      
      A very weak cog in the immigration system is the appeal organisation, the Immigration Protection Tribunal.
      
      The knife terrorist, Samsudeen, is only one of the ratbags this tribunal has allowed to stay in the country, overturning State attempts to kick them out. As the Herald reports today:
      
      In granting refugee status to Samsudeen, the Immigration Protection Tribunal ruling, obtained by the Herald on Sunday, said the appellant was “persistently re-experiencing traumatic events”.
      
      The tribunal reported Samsudeen “was angry and worried about the safety of his parents, with his anxiety heightened by living so far away in a strange country, without the support of friends and family, and lacking confidence and maturity.”
      
      Here is the membership of the tribunal:
      
      Chairman, Judge Peter Spiller; Martin Treadwell (deputy chairman – currently acting chairman), S Aitchison, M Avia, B Burson, A Clayton, B Dingle, M Martin, A Molloy, L Moor, Z Pearson, M Roche, V Shaw, D Smallholme, L Wakim, S Benson, M Benvie, T Cook.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:33am
    - David Garrett
      
      PaulL: Excellent point re family reunification visas…we took in 400 “family members” after the Christchurch attacks…NO VETTING AT ALL…
      
      Statistically there have to be at least 30 or so radical young men among them…some of them all ready to carrying in this asshole’s mission for Allah…
      
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      September 5, 2021 11:01am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    This comment hits the nail on the head Chuck, Cindy and the parliament have been playing with this for years, suddenly after innocent people get flayed,
    Legislation will be through by the end of the month.
    So now the general public can’t buy a knife in a supermarket, because the government has the craziest system in place that allows fruit cakes and nut cases to roam at will will 24/7 protection.
    The police, Judiciary, and government only protected this despot, the innocent public came in a miserable second.
    How many more of these whack jobs are still on the same dirty filthy deal? It is proven to be a spectacular and dreadful disaster for innocent people.
    The law society have made a submission 9 weeks ago, the politicians waited until they had their hand forced, disgusting behaviour.
    https://www.parliament.nz/resource/en-NZ/53SCJU_EVI_109913_JU1783/e857f7c1485f55dd3672a9313e55d5b01f23b4a6
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:37am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Not so impressed with the Law Society’s submission. It seemed more conserned about the rights of some POS than public safety.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:56am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        Nor do I, but my point was they had actually looked at the legislation and commented on it.
        The Politicians have sat on their hands and when the shit hits the fan, they start thinking about a remedy.
        Very sad innocents injured whilst the governments go the politically correct line.
        
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        September 5, 2021 11:10am
      - curry4me
        
        Chuck Bird: What else do you expect from the woke Law Society?
        
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        September 5, 2021 12:18pm
    - David Garrett
      
      Greg E: See my comment above…God knows how many more of these guys we have hiding in plain sight at a mosque near you.
      
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      September 5, 2021 11:02am
      - Greg Ettridge
        
        David, you will never be told, but you can bet London to a brick, there are numerous of them out there waiting flay the infidels.
        
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        September 5, 2021 11:13am
      - Thought Criminal
        
        Official information request?
        
        It seems kindness to dangerous people trumps public safety yet again.
        
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        September 5, 2021 11:27am
  - colina
    
    From the Herald
    The Herald has previously reported police tried to charge Samsudeen for allegedly plotting a “lone wolf” style knife attack, but could not because of a longstanding gap in NZ’s counter-terrorism law
    * Authorities have been trying to have his refugee status revoked and for him to be deported since 2018
    * Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern last night expressed her frustration and disappointment over the process.
    
    Ardern was frustrated so its the laws fault the answer is obvious AND SHE CHOOSE NOT TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT IT
    
    The lack of action is reprehensible a dereliction of duty
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:46am
    - Flossie
      
      Being frustrated is constant for this PM.
      
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      September 5, 2021 1:11pm
      - sooty
        
        Jesus Jethro, get your shit together will you!
        
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        September 5, 2021 5:32pm
  - lastmanstanding
    
    Some observation re the terrorist attack.
    
    1. If the terrorist had been a Christian he would have been stripped of his NZ citizenship or residency and deported at the first sign of trouble.
    2. Both sides of the House were told the 2002 Act was defective at the outset yet failed to pass corrective legislation.
    3. Cindy said the proposed legislation might not have worked in this case.
    5. Her Media Protection Squad failed to ask the obvious question. If the proposed legislation is defective why pass it. Why not construct rigorous and robust legislation that will deal with the issue.
    6. Cindy tried to spin that the attack and the attacker had nothing to do with religon. Pull the other one Cindy.
    7. Cindy told us she couldnt tell us certain information until she had consulted with the terrorists family.
    8. So the family trumps the right of citizens. So much for transparency and disclosure.
    9. And finally. Governments that fail to protect their citizens are failed Governments.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:50am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Where is 4?
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:05am
      - Jack5
        
        Lastmanstanding may be Chinese.
        
        To many Chinese, “4” is an unlucky number!
        
        http://blog.tutorming.com/expats/lucky-and-unlucky-chinese-numbers
        
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        September 5, 2021 11:02am
    - doggone7
      
      No. 1 is not an observation of fact. At best it’s a wildly subjective emotional opinion.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:21am
  - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
    
    Bro she is frustrated, she couldn’t change the law. So appreciate her position will ya?
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:23am
- Nickc2
  
  Unlawful but justified. A good point. Will it create a precedent though? I don’t think so because that power in the hands of the wrong person could have catastrophic consequences.
  Oh shit it, already has. Take it off her quick-smart!
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:19am
- KevO'Brien
  
  We don’t want a creative judiciary. Their duty is to give their judgment within their interpretation of the law, not to attempt to modify the rules.
  They generally have plenty of freedom to allow discernment and mercy to give a fair outcome. Many will never be satisfied but the Courts have to rule so there is consistency across all cases. A very difficult job. I’m pleased with our judiciary.
  
  At present we are considering another freedom case. The facts are still unclear but the law is not. If a Minister had the power to issue a removal order but did not do so that is a reserved right of the Minister. Argument about that is in the political realm.
  
  We cannot have those lawfully granted residence under surveillance orders. That is beyond our regular Bill of Rights boundaries. Very exceptional authority would be required. NZ must be extra careful not to turn into a commie State where where we have 24/7, dob-in, monitoring or Official spying. Our lifestyle has been one of freedom, not the rule book. The 1pm slot may have made us more anxious and compliant which is a path to a greater slope like the crayfish in the warming water.
  
  Never forget we got the govt Winston chose. MMP must go and a sound Government returned.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:26am
  - Bob
    
    don’t want a creative judiciary…
    Kev… we have had a creative judiciary for a long time now.
    Judges re interpreting legislation to suit their own agenda.
    Shades of the Soviet Union!
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:41am
    - Cactus Kate
      
      Supreme Court Justice Joe Williams attempted unilaterally recently to introduce customary Maori law to benefit the case of a deceased white as a ghost child abuser!
      
      Yet they can’t provide a solution even through sectioning a terrorist. I bet that may have changed from the political end at least, had the chap white supremist links threatening those who frequent Marae.
      
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      September 5, 2021 12:55pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It’s a bit gulag using the mental health provisions because someone is regarded as undesirable. I’ve had the Police and a pysch doc turn up on the doorstep to find someone subject to section; a women her neighbour disliked.
        The mental health provisions of arrest and examine have their place but caution is needed.
        
        I compare our judiciary as a whole with those in other countries and on balance I think ours shape up as comparably reasonable. (The USA seems a horror.) I try not to second guess them, not being in Court, as I once frequently was.
        
        There will always be the occasional odd ball judgement, one which the appellate courts normally knock into shape or the Crown itself initiates an appeal. It is hard to change a well ordered and time tested process. I would like it to go faster.
        
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        September 5, 2021 2:04pm
  - rouppe
    
    With you right up until the end. My view is that it doesn’t really matter which electoral system you use, there will always be outcomes that are not desirable. Happened in FPP, happens in MMP, will likely happen with any other system.
    
    Of note is that New Zealanders voted for this twice.
    
    As well as being extra careful to not turn into that Commie state, we also need to be extra careful to not enter a death spiral to the lowest common denomiator. I see Countdown is removing knives from the shelves. That is the sort of weak thinking that New Zealand leadership has descended into.
    
    Having the kitchen knives in the supermarket is not the problem. That thinking means they have to remove the scissors, the kebab sticks, the cheese graters, the frozen chickens, the glass bottles, it’s just ridiculous.
    
    The problem was that this POS was allowed to stay.
    
    One person’s human rights have led to the serious injury of six other people, and the ongoing inconvenience of all the stupid new actions such as removing knives for sale.
    
    The government, but also Golriz Ghahraman, Ricardo Menendez March and all those the screech about human rights are to blame. They can’t see past their ideology
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:42am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  How many other people are being watched by up to teams of 30 police officers.
  
  9000 divided by 30, let’s say 300.
  
  If you want to be safe from real criminals, put an isis flag up on your front lawn and then you will get 24 hours protection from the police,
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:52am
- dh
  
  glad they shot him dead.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:09am
PhilBest

Newshub has done a classic hit piece on a contrarian doctor, Dr Peter Canaday

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/coronavirus-debunking-a-kiwi-doctor-s-two-hour-anti-vaccination-video.html?fbclid=IwAR0pLuPGF1rPK3Vj0m-I2djcVvk589Dzc3bkFS0e77rXNWgpGsKLCWdIR4o

“Debunking a Kiwi doctor’s two-hour anti-vaccination video”
By Dan Satherly

Glad to get others contributions: I’d just like to discuss the first claim it makes, by way of example.
“Claim: The PCR tests used to diagnose SARS-CoV-2 infections were never designed to do that, and the documentation inside each test says that; and the CDC has stopped using them because they can’t tell the difference between SARS-CoV-2 and influenza
Both claims are untrue.
“PCR tests were absolutely designed to be used in this way and it’s how researchers have been using them for decades,” said Dr Campbell. “The patent document for PCR makes it clear that the inventors recognised the value of the technique in determining the presence of pathogens.”
The first page of the insert that comes with every PCR test says it is “intended for the qualitative detection of nucleic acid from the SARS-CoV-2”.
One of the inventors, Kary Mullis, later went on to express a range of views contrary to mainstream science – including that HIV didn’t cause AIDS and the ozone hole didn’t exist…”

I am not aware of PCR tests being used as they are now, “for decades”. They have been ordered by doctors who are seeking further evidence to firm up a diagnosis based on symptoms in an ill person.
“intended for the qualitative detection of nucleic acid from the SARS-CoV-2” is different to “providing a basis for diagnosis of illness”, which is what Dr Pete Canaday said they were specifically not intended to be used for.
This is central to understanding the anomalous nature of this whole pandemic. Ad Hominem attacks on Kary Mullis does not change the fact that he was highly-awarded for inventing this test, and anyone can watch and listen to him in his own words, here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VHmVj3LTqrU
Kary Mullis: “With PCR you can find almost ANYTHING in ANYBODY”
I believe that there was a controversy over HIV and PCR testing because, as a hyper sensitive research tool, it would indeed detect nucleic acid from HIV in “almost anyone”, just as it detects almost any virus at all in almost anyone.

I hope Peter Canaday and his friends make a counterattack on this hit piece in its entirety.
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September 5, 2021 8:07am
- MrTips
  
  I would pay to a fund that supports Canaday to sue Dan Satherley. Not because I support Canaday per se, but because Satherley is the most malicious, spin-doctoring reporter Newshub have. He is not remotely competent at writing what he does and should be made an example of to remind other journalists that misleading spin will not be tolerated any more. Yes, that is my honest opinion.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:32am
  - PhilBest
    
    Thanks for that, MrTips. I have no prior knowledge on that, so that is confirming.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:13pm
- Ra Henare
  
  Dont counter attack. Sue the buggars.
  The claim by newshub that having the vax gives you more immunity that surviving covid is demonstrably a lie.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:37am
- PaulL
  
  If it detects almost any virus at all in anybody, why do so many of them come back negative?
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:23am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    To be fair it is 1 in 600 tests they find a positive, they are not sure what it is positive to, what could possibly go wrong.If they are cycling at 40, they are very naughty at cheating, they are cooking the books.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:41am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The users feed the test with their own dna fragments they want to detect.
    However the dna copying process randomly erroneously copies some and that gets magnified too with each repeat.
    
    This is potentially a useful research tool where its boundaries are known and understood. Dna copying the way we living creatures do it is a bit hit and miss giving our mutations. The same process has been put together in a lab package. To rely on it for critical decision making by a single pass is misuse. With sufficient copying any dna real or created can be matched.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:41am
  - PhilBest
    
    PaulL: With SARS CoV-2, it will indeed come back negative with many people because this is still a new virus.
    
    I see now how some people are misunderstanding the Kary Mullis statement. He does not mean it detects “almost anything” in the sense that it detects something for which there is no nucleic acid there at all – although this is still a possibility. He means there IS nucleic acid for almost every virus for which you could test. Obviously for a new virus, it will take a while for this to become the case.
    
    PCR testing has never before been used for mass testing of people and then used as the sole basis to declare someone a “case” of this specific illness, even without symptoms; or clearly dying of something else they are known to have.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:03am
    - PhilBest
      
      It needs to be better understood that viruses of all kinds, in minute trace quantities, have spread asymptomatically in humanity forever. We have just never run an experiment in mass PCR testing to prove it, because it is not something that has ever been a priority for public health. Who cares about traces of viruses that never caused any illness in the people in which they are present? We are running such an experiment now but are disastrously misinterpreting the results. We are tracking in real-time, this kind of harmless spread of a new virus.
      
      It is essential to understand too, the conflicting arguments that “the asymptomatic do not spread Covid” versus those who say that it does. The asymptomatic only spread asymptomatic Covid – the “trace” amounts that do not cause illness. Just as the trace amounts of all viruses have spread through humanity forever, from one asymptomatic person to the next.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:36am
- JJ56
  
  I don’t have a horse in this race, having not looked carefully at the issues, but today over at Judith Curry’s blog on climate science (Climate etc) is a post (https://judithcurry.com/2021/09/03/15-minutes/) where she summarises an invited talk she gave at the American Chemical Society annual meeting in which she attempted to explain the climate debate in 15 minutes.
  
  While interesting in its own right, of relevance to this is the penultimate slide from her presentation (embedded in the post) that deals with the politicisation of science. It is worth downloading to read, including the Dilbert cartoon, but in the blog she expands on the slide as follows:
  
  “Encroachment of politics into socially-relevant science is unavoidable. Problems arise from many sources, and scientists, policy makers and the media are all culpable. The issue of greatest concern to me is when scientists filter research results and their public statements of facts with an eye to downstream political use. Governments exacerbate this by funding a narrow range of projects that support their preferred policies.
  
  “Climate science is far from the only area of science that has been politicized. Others include COVID19, gender studies, genetically modified food. Cancel culture is alive and well in the sciences, where scientists that disagree with an interpretation that supports desired policy objectives are ostracized, with some even losing their jobs.”
  
  Think this debate, and the contributions by Hendy and Wiles when they move outside their respective fields of expertise.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:16am
  - Jack5
    
    Talking about areas of science that have been politicised.
    
    Look locally! The Royal Society of NZ has been hijacked by political activists, historians, and soft-science academics.
    
    They’re even changing the name given it by statute (and still the official title) by branding it the “Royal Society Te Apārangi”,
    
    They should instead take out the words “Royal Society”, one of the oldest and greatest, if not the greatest scientific societies in the world.
    
    The executive under which the erosion began of the Royal Society of NZ – Cindy Kiro – is about to become New Zealand’s Governor-General.
    
    What a Mickey-Mouse country the Ardernists are creating.
    
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    September 5, 2021 12:46pm
    - Jack5
      
      Ouch! Just noticed on the Royal Society of NZ’s web site that Siouxsie Wiles was finishing a term as a council member, and one of the incoming members is Toeolesulusulu Damon Salesa.
      
      Salesa, a Samoan Rhodes scholar is a historian, who specialises (according to the University of Auckland web site) in colonialism, empire, government and race.
      
      Real science stuff ….
      
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      September 5, 2021 1:49pm
      - tf78
        
        Pray, why then did she move to the colonies to learn such information?
        
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        September 5, 2021 5:48pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The Royal Society has been bung for ages.
      
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      September 5, 2021 2:38pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  Maybe News Hub also got money from the government to create something similar to ‘The Whole Truth’. A project by Stuff which is designed to counter ‘misinformation’ where it occurs about Covid-19. lol
  
  We pay for this!!
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:53am
Im Right

Here’s hoping level 2 by Wed morning for all of NZ (Akl excluded for a cpl or weeks or more)
I would be demanding a bloody good excuse if its not downgraded for all of NZ outside Akl.
Be interesting to see the next polls, Labour have gone down in last 2 rounds of public polling, if they are back up due to lockdown then I think we can all expect an outbreak in election year if they slip to the high 30s by then.
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September 5, 2021 8:07am
- Ruahine
  
  You can be demanding as many “bloody good excuses” as you like. Just sit down and be quiet. You will do what you are told.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:26am
- krazykiwi
  
  Do you accept the notion that ‘levels’ should go down with reduced infections, and up with increased infections?
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:31am
  - rockape
    
    I would say no. Maybe go up with hospital admissions.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:04am
- Sede Vacante
  
  I suspect that Ardern is haemorrhaging support this time. While an unscientific metric, she is being heavily ratioed on all the Herald YT channel clips and elsewhere, with matching scathing comments (where available) on the former platform. The Islamic terror attack cannot have helped either, given the known context. However, I have no faith that any negative polling results will not be heavily massaged in order to “confirm” to the country that she is doing the right thing. However, as ever, her/their actions will tell us the real story.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:33am
  - surfing
    
    “I suspect that Ardern is haemorrhaging support this time”
    
    I believe you are wrong, Ardern’s support has been pretty solid all the way through, and , the most recent polls also support that.
    
    Collins has really not been a good leader, she is unable to control dissent within the party and you’d have to conclude that means she does not have respect.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:36am
- Stephen Russell
  
  Are you seriously suggesting that they would deliberately contrive an outbreak in the hope of boosting their popularity?
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:09am
  - freemark
    
    I don’t think that is entirely out of the question. If you think it is ridiculous you may look at how many of the “conspiracy theories” from early 2020 have played out.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:44am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Of course they would. This is Labour we’re talking about.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:06am
    - sooty
      
      The most transparent government ever!!!
      
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      September 5, 2021 7:43pm
  - Clyde
    
    Unfortunately we can never separate out politics from these issues that confront all of us.
    
    I have no doubt that there is a background element of either creating or heightening fear and then delivering the message “I/we can protect you from this threat”. It has worked extremely well in terms of Covid, not so well in the case of the terrorist.
    
    It is also working well in the 3 waters area although this is well under the radar of any commentators. “You are being delivered unsafe drinking water”, “Don’t worry, we will fix it for you and appease our maori caucus as well”. Next up is another low-flying subject of Local Body reform. “oooh look what’s happening in Invercargill and lots and lots of other Councils” followed up with “we have the solution and its co-governance with maori and lots of amalgamations”.
    
    Coupled with the purchase of MSM and all is well and progressing to plan.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:29am
  - David Garrett
    
    Stephen: I am absolutely no fan of Ardern or her government of clowns…but “contriving an outbreak” would be several steps too far, even for the socialists. And trying to pull that off would involve a level of involvement akin to faking the moon landings…
    
    (Oh please, NO conspiracy nutters saying all 6 of them were done in a studio in Hollywood.)
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:11am
- kowtow
  
  SI should be L1 , now.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:12am
- hullkiwi
  
  I’m Right, there will be no change this week. Auckland might get to Lvl3 on Tuesday 14th. The rest will go to Lvl 2 then.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:14am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    C’mon.. there’s no reason for anywhere outside of the “places of interest” and contact people to be in lockdown.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:15am
    - hullkiwi
      
      True, but that doesn’t stop St Ash and his idiot modellers from telling us how bad it is, and why we must restrain the urge to meet friends and extended family.
      
      Even worse. The covid tracing system and places of interest is so out of date by the time the “list” is updated, the Covid Tracer app is not even telling you that you have been to a place of interest.
      
      This happened to those of us who live in the Warkworth area.
      
      Countdown Warkworth was notified as a place of interest on Wednesday, 6 days after a person testing positive visited the store. I was in the store less than 24 hours after the person. I got no covid tracer app notice. Instead I get messages asking if my diary is up to date. I’m in the Auckland region, what do they expect? That I’m travelling around the district?
      
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      September 5, 2021 1:04pm
      - Batman
        
        24 hours doesn’t qualify you as exposed. And automated reminders about updating your diary is dumb, yes, but separate.
        
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        September 5, 2021 1:11pm
- Wired-one
  
  There is no justification at all for the South Island to be on any level other than level one. They have not had a case down there for over a year and waste water testing is showing no signs of it. When are we going to wake the hell up? If no cases in a year and no signs of it anywhere still means restrictions, then I’ll fuck off overseas now.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:02am
  - hullkiwi
    
    Who said St Ash and Cinders needed a justification for their decisions.
    
    Just remember, they are following the “science”.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:06pm
- Ruawai
  
  The South Island should be at level 1 now.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:16am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Yes Cindy knows her popularity increases with lockdown as the spineless sheeple in this country are scared to death with covid. So whenever Labour drops, all she needs to do is impose a lockdown, reconvene 1:00 pm briefings, ask the sheeple to be kind and sing kumbaya, voila 5% bump. Moving on…
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:26am
- Paulus
  
  It is being suggested that on Wednesday the South Island will go to Level 2, and the North Island, ex Auckland, will remain at Level 3.
  This is because those at level 4 (Auckland) cannot be trusted to go direct to Level 2 area so the North Island will stay at Level 3 until Auckland drops to Level 3, then go to Level 2 before Christmas.
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:31pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Might pay for Labour to check the long-term forecast… Some good weather on the horizon later in the week…
    
    I don’t think most of NZ likes being in Lockdown 3 when fine weather beckons.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:27pm
Philip Hart

If only the police reaction was as fast as the media’s reaction to pin the terrorist attack blame on Judith Collins
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September 5, 2021 8:07am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Nine long years of neglect by National….Red Claire on NZ Herald is speculating Judith’s downfall…
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:35am
  - Thought Criminal
    
    The bribes to the media are paying for themselves today.
    
    Cover for Labour when Labour need it most.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:29am
    - Okahu
      
      Just read elsewhere on this blog that everything this government does fails. Which is a strange thing to be upticked given so many people, such as yourself, believe they have successfully bought the media and with it control of the dumb populace. Credit where credit is due I say.
      
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      September 5, 2021 4:47pm
Ra Henare

With over 700 positive “cases”” in quarantine.
I do wonder about treatments for them.

Do the mild cases get the 3 meals a day (plus snacks) and advice to relax and rest.
Or do they get some specific treatments to help faster recovery?

Havent seen ANYTHING about what treatments are offered/given to positive cases.
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September 5, 2021 8:08am
- bronny1
  
  I wonder if it would be covered by the OIA … but you need to know who to ask. Any ideas? Would it be determined by local clinicians (in which case won’t be public but prob could be), MoH, DHBs, someone else?
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:21am
- Souvlaki
  
  Why, if you are NOT seriously ill, can one not convalece at home FFS?
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:28am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Because as we’ve seen some idiots won’t stay home
    
    I live in the middle of 250,000sqm of forest, my nearest neighbour is 200m away, even the JW’s don’t come down the drive and yet if I were to leave the country I have to spend 14 days in a plague pit
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:06am
  - PaulL
    
    So you don’t infect your family.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:23am
- Ruahine
  
  Ra.
  I believe it is a packet of Lemsip and a bowl of chicken soup.
  Just what one might take if one has a bad cold.
  Oh and wrap up and keep warm.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:30am
- krazykiwi
  
  Ra, I’m researching material for a comment on exactly this point.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:32am
  - surfing
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300397872/covid19-three-weeks-inside-a-rabbit-hole-of-dangerous-misinformation
    
    You’re so blinded by misinformation you don’t know what is going on.
    
    Fortunately, it is a small minority of people like you who don’t trust science.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:34am
    - krazykiwi
      
      If you’re going to rebut my arguments you might want to look beyond Stuff for your material.
      
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      September 5, 2021 11:57am
      - wreck1080
        
        How about nzherald?
        
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-delta-outbreak-nik-dirga-misinformation-pandemic-will-endure-longer-than-delta/U2AX7KONP34HYWH637AOITIJGM/
        
        Or virtually any newspaper on the planet? You have an interesting psychology though.
        
        You will just keep repeating misinformation, fortunately few are listening.
        
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        September 5, 2021 12:43pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Sigh. What ‘misinformation’ do you allege that I spread? Where are your counter arguments? Given that so far I’ve been quoted Stuff and Herald I’ll be proactive and suggest that you don’t come back with Wikipedia
        
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        September 5, 2021 2:20pm
    - freemark
      
      Where the old “misinformation” argument breaks down is that the information is generally publicly available (albeit well down the google results, and well hidden elsewhere) data, interpreted by those without skin in the game – except the skin of human freedoms, truth from our MSM, Politicians & their funded “experts.” The “follow the science” argument is just bullshit, as the best peer reviewed & updated science around pandemics explicitly recommended against the initial & ongoing actions taken around a mildly infectious & mortal respiratory infection like Covid-19. Of course no-one is asking our mouth pieces for Cindy about this.
      
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      September 5, 2021 4:07pm
- JohnRidd
  
  I completely agree. Early treatment saves lives.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:00am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well delaying meals to youngsters and not sending up Pamol (fever-reducing) to sick young children when requested is not my idea of “treatment”.
  
  In subsequent posts to her Facebook, the woman explained that her children had waited hours for their lunch that day and earlier in their stay, it had taken a day for staff to provide Pamol for her sick child.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/covid-19-family-transferred-to-new-quarantine-facility-after-mum-s-angry-meltdown-at-miq-staff.html
  
  And seriously, cold pizza is not really the best food for sick young kiddies….. some fresh fruit wouldn’t have gone amiss.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:05am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Maggy. Dont confuse MIQ (healthy people) With quarantine (those tested positive).
    MIQ run by MBIE
    Quarantine run by MOH.
    
    Chalk and cheese spring to mind.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:19am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      The Mother was Covid-positive…
      
      Who was treating her and her sick children?
      
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      September 5, 2021 11:16am
  - PaulL
    
    Yup. The govt issues a section 70 health order that allows them to incarcerate you for your own good, and the good of the country. And then won’t feed you or give you basic medications. I can see why some people carefully don’t use the tracer app or register where they’ve been, and why you wouldn’t get a test if sick. Because if they know where you’ve been they can force you to get a test, and if the test comes back positive they can use their powers to force you into a quarantine facility. Then they don’t feed you.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:25am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And even if you are covid-positive, they shove the rest of your family with you in a confined space so you can infect your loved ones.
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:41am
      - PhilBest
        
        It is worse than that, Maggy. Confinement in a limited space without forced air exchange risks making infections WORSE. Your own exhaled viruses can add to the load your immune system has to deal with if you re-inhale them. Multiple people doing this together does seem to be a magnifier of severity. This presents an appearance of medical experimentation on people, even if it is not what the officials intend. But if they deliberately wanted to make the outcomes worse, it would be completely consistent with their stance on “early treatments”, to also restrict even the most basic therapeutic in nature; fresh air.
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:10am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That appears to be unlawful.
      Govt servants cannot do as they please.
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:51am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Sorry down ticked by mistake.
      
      Two of my brothers have gone through the detention process, the pictures of the food were not encouraging, but they could order in, before the level 4 lockdown, cold takeaways was a better option.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:01am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Some of our deliciously healthy NZ black currants and blueberries.
    Activity, sunlight and anti-oxidant food.
    Lowish carbs and moderate proteins.
    In enforced indoors situations the warm leds throughout add the red light sorely missing. They’re cheap to keep on.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:50am
    - PhilBest
      
      Kev, do you mean this is what they are getting in “Quarantine” or do you mean it is what they SHOULD be getting? if the former, I am thankful the officials have done something right. If the latter, I agree with you and it is a shame the officials might not.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:12am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        My comments were intended to add something to what Maggy had suggested for us all to keep healthy.
        I was formerly captured by the winter blues and my suggestion about the LEDS will fix those. I’ve had several years free now.
        The NZ black currants are a world beater as a health promoter.
        
        I hope and expect that those physically locked down by any govt agency are treated with respect. Having experienced what they did with children I suspect “anything goes”.
        
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        September 5, 2021 2:15pm
    - Sir Cullen's Sidekick
      
      Wait for Countdown to increase the price of them to $22.95 per KG….
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:37am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        All the more reason to increase production.
        
        1 1
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        September 5, 2021 2:16pm
    - Flossie
      
      Blueberries are so expensive! Yesterday at our supermarket a tiny punnet was in excess of $9. I love those berries but had to leave them on the shelf.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:46am
  - The Housekeeper
    
    Couldn’t agree more Maggy. Sam Bailey interviewed another woman who had her food withheld in MIQ as a punishment for questioning protocols. Even if you think someone is a shit-stirrer, it’s no excuse to withhold food or medicines. Welcome home.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8ocDKEFsUY
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:46am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Interesting to see that interview back up. Youtube took the original down after a couple of weeks. It is worth watching before it is removed again.
      
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      September 5, 2021 12:01pm
- kowtow
  
  Given it’s the super dooper hypercalafragalistic delta deadly version the media pardy and pollies keep banging on about I’m shocked they’re not all in hospital , the morgue or plague pits and pyres already.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:18am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Good question.
  
  What is the treatment for this highly infectious, highly dangerous virus.
  
  Lock people up in a room and wait for them to die?
  
  What are the medical services available at these detention centres,
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:58am
- David Garrett
  
  Ra: So what would you suggest, a couple of shots of animal de-wormer? Some janola taken orally perhaps?
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:13am
  - JimBobJoe
    
    DG. Ivermectin is used a lot for humans for yes, deworming. Its not an animal only remedy. At the right doses its statistically safe.
    
    The question is: is the human dosage levels of ivermectin, an off patent formulation and therefore cheap, useful in prophylactic usages and early stages treatment for covid. Jury is out.
    
    Why repeat the animal treatment meme when its an obvious tactic released to discredit a potential cheap as treatment for covid?
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:50am
  - freemark
    
    DG. For a guy who has his head screwed on well on many matters it’s sad to see you have fallen into the fuckwittery of comments like that. Even though I’ve seen a good description of the psychology as to why, it’s very disappointing.
    
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    September 5, 2021 4:11pm
  - Okahu
    
    Top work Mr Garrett. Very glad to see a stalwart of this blog hadn’t fallen for the krazy philosopher prophet’s horse pill yarn.
    
    PS. I do hope you enjoyed a pleasing sundowner yesterday! Help yourself to another tonight for your good work!
    
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    September 5, 2021 4:54pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    DG, could I be so bold as to suggest you read up on this a bit? The ‘animal’ and ‘janola’ throwaways are beneath your usually-focused analysis. If you are so inclined, have a read of this paper, published 7th July 2021 by Oxford University Press on behalf of Infectious Diseases Society of America. From the abstract:
    
    Ivermectin was associated with reduced inflammatory markers (C-Reactive Protein, d-dimer and ferritin) and faster viral clearance by PCR. Viral clearance was treatment dose- and duration-dependent. In 11 randomized trials of moderate/severe infection, there was a 56% reduction in mortality (Relative Risk 0.44 [95%CI 0.25-0.77]; p=0.004; 35/1064 (3%) deaths on ivermectin; 93/1063 (9%) deaths in controls) with favorable clinical recovery and reduced hospitalization.
    
    Note the deaths cut to 33% of the non-Ivermectin control group.
    
    While there is plenty of debate about the level of efficacy, the preponderance of evidence points to there being value in this treatment, so detractors who respond the ‘animal remedy’ flannel just make themselves look silly.
    
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    September 5, 2021 5:14pm
CJames

It is of concern that the only relief we get from Covid management blunders by the government is terrorism – also mismanaged. If all their spin doctors can’t arrange good news stories, they should be replaced. The wedding hasn’t be mentioned for a couple of weeks, has it?
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September 5, 2021 8:10am
- Bob
  
  Getting herself elected as the Democratic Dictator is far more important than a wedding.
  Weddings are so Judo-Christian un woke, only relevant to old stale males.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:45am
  - Nickc2
    
    and to keep the rellies happy.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:41pm
New Zealander

It’s clear that the judiciary has let New Zealand down. New Zealand law states that the terrorist could have been imprisoned for up to 10 years due to the objective material he repeatedly had in his possession. After breaking a Corrections Officer’s jaw he also faced a current charge of Injuring with Intent which has a maximum sentence of 10 years imprisonment.

Since being elected in 2017, this government has repeatedly signalled to the Courts that imprisonment is not a favourable option and that we must try to rehabilitate everyone. New Zealand’s prison population had reduced significantly, with far more people being handed community-based sentences. Friday’s attack is the consequence of these idealistic motives. The police were so concerned of the man’s danger to the community that he was followed 24/7. However, the judiciary were not concerned enough, despite his current charges and threats to carry out exactly what occurred on Friday.

The fact that the terrorist was recently granted bail is an absolute disgrace and has led to the stabbing of several innocent New Zealanders.

Accountability does not lie with the police or corrections staff who all appear to have done their jobs and shown great concern about this man’s threat to the community. Accountability lies with the judiciary and Ministers responsible for overseeing a major change in the way sentences are handed out in New Zealand and for failing to keep New Zealanders safe despite having the legal authority to do so.
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September 5, 2021 8:11am
- Albert_Ross
  
  Hang on.
  
  He could have been jailed for up to ten years for objectionable material he had in his possession – and nobody has any problem with that? Here, where we have been so contemptuous of the Government’s trying to prevent us from seeing the Tarrant manifesto?
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:31am
- Ruahine
  
  The females that run this country are akin to the ‘Anxious Mothers’.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:32am
  - Crisplion
    
    I think Ardern’s controlling behaviour is actually a manifestation of the Jungian archetype of the ‘terrible mother’ – the mother who keeps her children ‘safe’ at the cost of disallowing them to face the world with courage.
    
    I think, notwithstanding all of her spin and mendacity, Ardern actually believes her own narrative. She sees herself as a saintly maternal figure. Her blindness to the shadow side of maternity – stultifying, repressive and unwilling to relinquish control over her ‘children’ – is what, more than anything, renders her utterly unfit for her office. She contrasts strongly with another female leader – Margaret Thatcher – who wanted to wean the citizens of her country off the welfare teat and learn to stand on their own feet – as all good ‘mothers’ should.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:51am
    - Okahu
      
      Of course she could be just doing what leaders do, chairing her cabinet, being advised by a non political public service, communicating the outcome of the decisions that follow. You know, our style of Westminster democracy.
      
      Still, a bit of Jungian psychoanalysis is always apt. Just so we know how seriously we should take your work, how would you describe your psycho analytical abilities? Infrequent dabbler or seasoned pro earning big and publishing cited papers and a star on the international conference scene? Or somewhere between?
      
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      September 5, 2021 5:07pm
      - Crisplion
        
        I have a PhD in psychology actually. And I’m not referring only to her response to COVID. Her attitude to so-called hate speech, her obsession with ‘kindness’ and her terror of having her authority questioned all evince my analysis of her. Naturally I could be wrong, but it’s the way she comes across.
        
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        September 5, 2021 5:43pm
- Yvette
  
  New Zealander – It’s clear that the judiciary has let New Zealand down.
  
  … In July 2020, the Crown applied to prosecute the man under the Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 for planning a terrorist attack. However, the High Court judge declined this, ruling that preparing an attack is not an offence under the legislation. He said creating an offence was not the job of the court, but an issue for Parliament.
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/lynnmall-terrorist-named-identity-revealed-after-court-lifts-suppression-order.html
  
  New Lynn terror attack: Failure to use Mental Health Act criticised
  It was unclear why the man could not have been detained for an assessment using the Mental Health Act, said former counter-terrorism advisor Paul Buchanan.
  “He could have been, upon his release, immediately committed to an institution under the Mental Health Act in order to undergo that psychiatric examination. And he could have been held indefinitely until psychiatrists determined that he did not pose a threat to society.
  “The PM said that every legal remedy was tried, but at least one, the Mental Health Act, was not tried. To me that is the big issue.”
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/450769/new-lynn-terror-attack-failure-to-use-mental-health-act-criticised
  
  I was briefed on this work in May 2021. I sought further advice on whether prevention orders could be used, and whether the individual had been psychologically assessed. I was later advised that prevention orders could not be used, that he had refused psychological assessment. – Ardern
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/lynnmall-terror-attack-timeline-jacinda-ardern-reveals-how-government-tried-to-stop-terrorist.html
  
  However the Immigration Protection Tribunal ruling, obtained by the Herald on Sunday, said –
  … the appellant was “persistently re-experiencing traumatic events”.
  “[The psychiatrist] believes it can only be explained in terms of traumatic experience, and she states that, in her opinion, it would be very difficult for him to have fabricated the degree of disturbance displayed during the interviews she conducted.”
  He was angry and worried about the safety of his parents, with his anxiety heightened by living so far away in a strange country, without the support of friends and family, and lacking confidence and maturity.
  In other words, almost the perfect candidate to be radicalised in his living room.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mall-terrorist-attack-lone-wolf-isis-supporter-identified-as-sri-lankan-refugee-ahamed-aathil-mohamed-samsudeen-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-responds/ZKP4IST56NJWH3SPNM5GNF7XI4/
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:46am
- Bob
  
  Yes!, but think of the impact on the next election prospects if a significant percentage of your supporters are incarcerated for long periods.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:47am
- oldfella
  
  Being an ISIS supporter he would have really hated gays. A few unkind posts about the LQBXYZ community could have got him jailed for life. //s
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:17am
- David Garrett
  
  NZer: Can’t argue with any of that, Sir madam.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:14am
artemisia

Professor of Economics John Gibson over at BB&H – “lockdowns are one of our greatest peacetime policy failures”.

Be good to see the government experts asked if they agree or not with the calculations in the article. How about some written and oral questions for a start. Though some Ministers are these days recommending OIA requests in response to questions in the House. Really?

http://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/john-gibson-lockdowns-again
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September 5, 2021 8:12am
- artemisia
  
  And Minister Poto Williams, asked by media whether frontline police who apprehended the escapee had been vaccinated, responded: “Why don’t you put in an OIA?”
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:47am
Sede Vacante

Read this information and tell me that it doesn’t raise some serious questions and lend a lot of independent support to what the “nutters” have been claiming since last year. In particular, pages 17-21 of this document, the “Rockefeller Foundation 2010 Scenarios for the Future of Technology” (a chapter entitled “Lock Step”) has an eerily familiar ring to it.

https://truthcomestolight.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/07/Rockefeller-Foundation-2010-Scenarios-for-the-Future-of-Technology-and-International-Development.pdf

See also “Event 201, a pandemic exercise to illustrate preparedness efforts”, whose sponsors include the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and the World Economic Forum. This relates to “a high-level pandemic exercise on October 18, 2019, in New York, NY.”

https://centerforhealthsecurity.org/event201/

Just sayin’.
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September 5, 2021 8:13am
- krazykiwi
  
  Anyone who believes that real threat is a tiny virus is as best deluded and at worst willfully ignorant.
  
  What’s really at risk here is not your health, but your personal sovereignty, and the personal sovereignty of every descendent in perpetuity.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:38am
  - Sede Vacante
    
    I’m unsure how anyone can access those links and still not get it.
    
    5 1
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    September 5, 2021 9:26am
- Vory v zakone
  
  And there was this that came out last year and seems to be kept under the radar ?
  
  [In 2020] a group of over 500 medical doctors in Germany called ‘Doctors for Information’ made a shocking statement during a national press conference:
  
  ‘The Corona panic is a play. It’s a scam. A swindle. It’s high time we understood that we’re in the midst of a global crime.’
  
  This large group of medical experts publishes a medical newspaper on 500,000 copies every week, to inform the public about the massive misinformation in the mainstream media. They also organize mass protests in Europe, like the one on August 29, 2020 where 12 million people signed up and several millions actually showed up.
  
  https://principia-scientific.com/proof-that-the-pandemic-was-planned-with-purpose/
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:50pm
Scott

Thanks to the UK Daily Mail we can find out the name of the terrorist. He was granted refugee status. In response to our kindness he labelled us as kiwi scum and threatened to do us harm. Apparently been watched around the clock since 2016!
Maybe we could have laws to deal with these things? Hold him on remand while his appeal gets processed?
Can we have some urgency from the government to deal with these animals? Sometimes “kindness” is not the only thing. Commonsense also goes a long way. NZers are critically injured because no one in government gave this a high enough priority.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9957273/New-Zealand-police-waited-outside-supermarket-knifeman-injured-seven-avoid-spotted.html?adobe_mc=TS=1630786162|MCAID=2FC1D3360515B662-60000B4642008BF5
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September 5, 2021 8:14am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Is there any confirmation that he was a New Zealand citizen?
  
  If he was not a citizen why was he not deported?
  
  If he was a citizen how did he meet the good character test?
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:31am
  - Paulus
    
    Cough Cough !
    
    8 0
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    September 5, 2021 8:39am
  - Inandout
    
    BY, I recall Jacinda saying this morning they were ‘working on it’. Apparently working groups don’t exist since the Big C hit.
    
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    September 5, 2021 8:49am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    He had refugee status.
    
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    September 5, 2021 8:49am
    - lifesgood
      
      Illegally, though.
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:34am
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      From the massive war happening in Sri Lanka? Anyone got a link to war?
      
      4 0
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      September 5, 2021 10:08am
    - rouppe
      
      I’m hearing that a lot. We couldn’t name him because he had refugee status (and therefore name suppression). We couldn’t deport him because of his refugee status. And so on.
      
      This is all very well for a refugee who is trying to rebuild their life.
      
      But as soon as they begin criminal acts, why on earth does that protection – protection far and away greater than new Zealand citizens enjoy – not be over ridden by the sovereign interests?
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:14am
    - PhilBest
      
      Aha. And someone who was a Christian and was a refugee for that reason, has been turned away in the past.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:14am
    - Sacha
      
      Yes. But he forfeited the right to stay here in safety when he became a threat to New Zealand citizens.
      It should be a condition that such people are returned forthwith to their country of origin. He was clearly somewhat deranged, and possibly deserving of pity, but that does not require us to tolerate un-civil behaviour.
      One wonders what actions made these people fear for their safety in their home countries – what behaviour did they do to offend the government? Or some other political group? Whatever, we don’t need them and their problems here.
      Send them back to where they came from.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:40am
    - Jack5
      
      The Immigration and Protection Tribunal is responsible for the terrorist remaining in New Zealand.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:43am
  - Bob
    
    Promised to vote LABOUR.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:48am
  - Ruawai
    
    All immigrants should be on a 10 year good behaviour bond, any criminal offense in the first 10 years of being in NZ and you are returned from where you came from, no exceptions.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:34am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      50 years
      
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      September 5, 2021 2:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Authorities revealed Samsudeen moved to the New Zealand in October 2011 and was granted refugee status two years later – which authorities sought to revoke in 2018 following terror-related convictions.
  
  However he appealed and a final decision on whether he should be deported had yet to be made, reported the New Zealand Herald.
  Questions for the Govt, WHO is responsible? Jaspinda must have known, if not, why not?
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:53am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Mods, can you remove that name please? My edit did not work
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:06am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Suppression is lifted, did not know
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:51am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Seems in order.
    Delay in the Courts is normal and the previous lock down season may not have helped.
    Hard to attribute blame to anyone except the offender who may have used the Court filing as a way of getting a temporary stay–a common situation.
    
    Hard to legislate this delaying option out.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:58am
  - Nickc2
    
    His mother has stated he was back in Sri Lanka in 2016 where he became radicalised. How does that work?
    A pending question for Cindy when next she fronts the Podium of Lies? Nah, didn’t think so, it will reveal someone has been telling porkies and making stuff up as she goes. No doubt she will blame it on the previous Govt.
    
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    September 5, 2021 3:14pm
- Souvlaki
  
  I agree with the top ranked ( moderated) comments in that DM article : “the Prime Minister and Police Commissioner should resign”
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:08am
  - NK
    
    Why?? Who was Minister of Immigration in John Key’s government that signed off on this guy’s refugee status? If this person is a current MP then he or she must resign too.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:44am
    - NK
      
      It was Michael Woodhouse. He’s a current MP. Gone by lunchtime please.
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:46am
      - Bob
        
        As with the present government, ministers are given completed documentation, justifying the departments decision, for sign off.
        
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        September 5, 2021 9:51am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        He (and many others) were given refugee status before they were radicalised. Are Key and Woodhouse supposed to be able to predict the future?
        
        31 1
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        September 5, 2021 10:16am
      - rouppe
        
        Samsudeen had not engaged in any offensive or criminal activity at that time
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:16am
      - MCos
        
        According to his mother he was radicalized in Sri Lanka.
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:35am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        @MCos…
        
        and she provided the year in which he was brainwashed…2016
        
        His mother, Ismail Fareeda, has told a TV channel in Sri Lanka that neighbours from Syria and Iraq radicalised Aathil Samsudeen when he was injured in a fall in 2016.
        https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/450786/lynnmall-attacker-brainwashed-by-neighbours-mother-says
        
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        September 5, 2021 2:32pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Not correct. His mother says he was radicalised here in 2016.
      
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      September 5, 2021 3:02pm
      - MCos
        
        According to this article she said he was radicalized by neighbours after an accident in 2016 in Sri Lanka.
        https://asiapacificreport.nz/2021/09/05/auckland-terror-attacker-brainwashed-by-neighbours-mother-says/
        
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        September 5, 2021 4:34pm
burt

Are we still allowed to post news links like this?
https://torontosun.com/news/provincial/over-100-ontario-youth-have-been-sent-to-hospital-for-vaccine-related-heart-problems
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September 5, 2021 8:14am
- krazykiwi
  
  Yup, and 80% are young men. The SAE rate for young males is extremely alarming.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:40am
  - kowtow
    
    Can’t be correct ;
    
    the gubmint announcements here all say the vaccine is safe .
    
    Yeah but for who ?
    
    Politicians seeking to stay in office ?
    
    9 2
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    September 5, 2021 9:23am
  - Sacha
    
    Dr John Campbell suggested in one of his up-dates, that ‘fit young men’ should take a week off their fitness programmes after being vaccinated, because of the seeming risk of developing myocarditis – which apparently they are already well represented by in general health data.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:45am
    - burt
      
      Indeed, maybe if we were fully informed about how many people are experiencing these kinds of serious risk side effects, rather than pretending it’s safe even for children, then more people would be informed on how to mitigate these risk.
      
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      September 5, 2021 4:10pm
  - Northshoredoc
    
    Rare heart inflammation cases (around one in 6000) are reported in teenagers after their COVID-19 vaccination. The majority of cases are mild and self-resolving. Importantly the chance of developing severe illness after COVID-19 infection is much higher and there is considerably higher risk of myocarditis from COVID itself than there is from the vaccine.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:53am
    - burt
      
      I guess the years of clinical data and the completion of the stage 3 trials in 2023 inform the assertions getting covid is more risky than the vaccine?
      
      6 2
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      September 5, 2021 12:38pm
- Mr_Blobby
  
  The MSN, try not to laugh.
  
  The answer is no.
  
  It would make dear leader look bad.
  
  Asking the question is also, no.
  
  Dear leader would not be able to answer it.
  
  It would make dear leader look bad,
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:07am
Loddenthinks

Over the last couple of days I’ve wondered why Ardern was so keen to manipulate the legal system to be able to name the Countdown terrorist.

It looked to me like she was desperately trying to “protect the brand” and avoid negative consequences for the Islamic community, even though it would cause his family immense pain and no doubt a lot of negative consequences.

Turns out she really was trying to “protect the brand” only it was Brand Ardern. Silly me. She was so desperate to spin the line that she did everything possible to prevent a tragedy like this, yet we know this government can ram through legislation in a matter of days when it suits them. When it protects us? Not so fast.
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September 5, 2021 8:15am
- Loddenthinks
  
  And the adoring media is sending her hugs and sympathy with puff-pieces such as “Has any NZ Prime Minister faced as many crises as Jacinda?”
  
  Yes, it’s a tough job and there are always challenges – though some of her “crises” are of her own making and reflective of a shambolic government well out of its depth. But I get it, it can’t be easy for you and nobody would blame you if you laid down your tools, called a General Election and let the grown-ups take over.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:18am
  - lifesgood
    
    Ummm yes, John Key. Christchurch earthquake, mining disaster…..! These journos are useless. This covid mess is all her own doing,
    As an aside. I had to laugh. The NZ broadcasting school is asking for recruits “Please apply to the NZBS” so appropriate, all they ever learn is how to spout BS.
    
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    September 5, 2021 8:28am
    - Yvette
      
      lifesgood – you rightly mention the “mining disaster’ – the article writer didn’t …
      
      For John Key it was navigating New Zealand’s economy through the Global Finance Crisis and dealing with the aftermath of the Christchurch earthquakes, which destroyed our second largest city and killed seven times the number of New Zealanders who have died from Covid-19 so far.
      
      PS: NZBS New Zealand Broadcasting Service was replaced by New Zealand Broadcasting Corporation (NZBC) in 1962. The present NZBS you mention may be a throwback.
      
      And again Newshub reprints an RNZ Guyon Espiner item – must confuse hell out of those administering the Government handout Pravda fund as to who should get what share.
      
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      September 5, 2021 2:33pm
  - Ra Henare
    
    haha. You didnt read to the bottom of that article.
    
    Has a prime minister ever dealt with the events Jacinda Adern is dealing with? Yes, they probably have, but maybe you weren’t locked in your house for days on end watching them respond
    
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    September 5, 2021 8:41am
  - NoFax
    
    Michael Joseph Savage and Peter Fraser faced far more crises than probably any Prime Ministers but for our journalists last year doesn’t matter let alone 75 years ago.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:59am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The decision to revoke refugee status was made in 2018 and appealed. Who was PM in 2018?
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:01am
  - NK
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    What’s Arden got to do with this? She can’t intervene. John Key granted him refugee status. Is it his fault too?
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:04am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Confusing. Key could grant him refugee status, but Ardern could not revoke it? How does that work?
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:20am
      - NK
        
        No. I’m using your belief that the PM can do what he/she wants.
        
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        September 5, 2021 9:27am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Spinning like atop
        
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        September 5, 2021 9:46am
      - Jack5
        
        Key to blame? He seems to have been alert to the danger of accepting refugees from the Sri Lanka civil war:
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5269049/Key-accused-of-scaremongering
        
        This isn’t the first echo of the Sri Lanka civil war in NZ. Still unsolved is the house fire at Flat Bush, Auckland, that took the life of Kailesh Thanabalasingham, secretary of the NZ Refugee Council and three members of his family.
        
        A Kailesh Thanabalasingham, of similar age and Tamil ethnicity, had been deported from Canada earlier after a lethal ethnic gang war in Toronto.
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:51am
    - PaulL
      
      He was granted refugee status by the bureaucracy – I’d be very surprised if anyone at senior levels more than glanced at it. Although I note he initially had it denied, then our tribunals of woke liberal “let everybody in” people decided he qualified anyway. So far, so normal, no reason for a government to intervene (when they’re busily pretending that all the people we let in as refugees are actually refugees).
      
      When he committed crimes and was clearly a threat to NZ, that was the point where he came to senior government attention, and the point where you might expect action at the most senior levels to intervene in what was going on.
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:30am
      - Bob
        
        action at the most senior levels….. PaulL…
        Managers at ‘Senior Levels’ are looking to their promotion prospects to a cushy Diplomatic Post in UK, USA, Europe or even Australia.
        Don’t want to rock the boat, there aren’t too many preferred posts available; Afghanistan or Pakistan is available though.
        
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        September 5, 2021 9:55am
      - NK
        
        Correct and accurate which is why this is neither John Keys fault nor Arden. The only criticism I have of her is the fact she can declare climate emergencies and pass laws under urgency hitting property investors, but making changes to terrorism legislation apparently takes time.
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:14am
      - MCos
        
        The last terrorism laws were passed in a hurry after 9/11, from what I hear, and like most rushed legislation was full of holes as we’re now finding out.
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:50am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Correct MCos. The Terrorism Suppression Act 2002 was passed by the Clark government and its support parties. It was an imperfect piece of legislation.
        
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        September 5, 2021 11:32am
- artemisia
  
  The family are shocked and had no idea. Well they would say that, wouldn’t they.
  
  However, they are likely to be the focus of attention anyway, probably not in a good way.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:06am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    They knew he had been radicalised, and his brothers tried to talk him out of it, without success.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:33am
Southern Raider

Was with great relief yesterday to hear the PM say that on the day of the supermarket terror attack Labour had actually been working at haste to resolve the gaps in the current Act.

Just to think if the attack had of been one month later Labour would have saved the day with the terrorist already locked up under their new legislation.
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September 5, 2021 8:15am
- crikey
  
  If Labour has “ actually been working at haste to resolve the gaps in the current Act” what say they produce a time line to demonstrate that, rather than the usual unsubstantiated assertions.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:11am
- Bob
  
  working at haste….
  activity began about 4.00 pm with a telephoned ‘Captains call’ to the Ministry …. “Fill the Gaps”.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:58am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Makes you wonder about the pace they work at when not “working at haste”
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:56pm
all true

Just listen to this one – https://cairnsnews.org/2021/07/06/a-final-warning-to-humanity-from-former-pfizer-chief-scientist-michael-yeadon/
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September 5, 2021 8:16am
- burt
  
  Bet that wouldn’t last 10 minutes on FB.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:25am
- Tomtoddy
  
  Check this out carefully. Was Yeadon ever Chief Scientist at Pfizer? Some of his claims seem suspect too.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:28am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    According to Reuters he was https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:02am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    Yeadon was a scientist within the allergy and asthma section of pfizer R&D some time ago.
    
    The article below documents his descent..
    
    https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/health-coronavirus-vaccines-skeptic/
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:00am
burt

There are lots of news articles like this if you look for them, has anyone got any idea why our own media are not informing us about these “very rare” risks?
https://www.italy24news.com/business/167330.html
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September 5, 2021 8:17am
- Sede Vacante
  
  Surely these cases are newsworthy. People suffering adverse events as a result of a substance that is being pushed on the entire world’s population is big news, even if we accept the spin that these are “rare.” Surely we want to get to the bottom of this? The fact that the MSM avoid these stories like the plague (pun intended) tells you they are NOT good faith actors. They are selling a product, and it’s becoming more and more evident that the product is an utter lemon. I also see that Pfizer is working on a twice-daily Covid pill, to supplement their “gold standard” vaccine. Wake the f-up folks.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:23am
- krazykiwi
  
  The Myocarditis SAE appears to be most likely for young males, and for athletes. So the compound risk factor for young male athletes is enormous. Don’t have the bandwidth to do the calculations today, but my guess is 15-20x the regular Myocarditis SAE rate.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:44am
contolii

Can we all agree that Australia is a police state now? They’re currently rushing through a bill in parliament (the Identify and disrupt bill) that enables police to take over social media accounts, and “add, modify or delete” data among other sweeping powers, and the only safeguard in place is the need for a warrant from a piddling tribunal. The Australian police will legally be able to fabricate evidence by modifying, removing, or adding data to your accounts. And knowing how corrupt the Australian government is, there’s no doubt these powers will be used corruptly as well. This isn’t even for terrorism offences, it’s anything you’re suspected of that attracts a penalty of three or more years. As usual they wheel out the “this is to stop pedos” line so anyone opposed to these insane laws is labelled as pro-pedo and shut out of the debate. Now I know how it feels to have a North Korea in the making practically on my doorstep. I’m sure Adern will be taking notes and introducing something similar before long as well using that latest attack as justification.
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September 5, 2021 8:19am
- krazykiwi
  
  Australia now comprises a number of police states. Read this Australia Traded Away Too Much Liberty.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:46am
  - Sede Vacante
    
    “In responding to a question about whether he had gone too far with respect to imposing a curfew (avoiding the question of why a curfew was needed when no other state had one), Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews replied: ‘it is not about human rights. It is about human life.’”
    
    There are some fundmental competing interests here, Dan. A human without their inalienable rights is less-than-human. They may as well be dead at that point, rather than merely existing as a serf or a slave. This seems to be the truly disturbing premise underlying Ardern’s approach too.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:16am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    As this Scottish archeologist puts it in
    Freedom, Consequences and Responsibility:
    
    English writer Mervyn Peake said “To live at all is miracle enough.” It’s a good line and I’ve quoted it for years, but now I see merely to live at all is not enough, not nearly. A caged bird is alive but without the freedom to fly the Limitless sky, it is denied everything that makes a bird in the first place. To be alive is not enough. What matters is to live in freedom. A bird is such a fragile creature. It’s really all and only about movement. Take away a bird’s movement and it’s a handful of feathers and air.
    
    Freedom is not negotiable. You’re either free or you’re not. Freedom is not even safe. Those who’ve been imprisoned are often terrified of freedom. All those choices, for all of our personal responsibility. This is why ex-cons often reoffend, to go back behind bars where it feels safer, out of harm’s way.
    
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    September 5, 2021 12:57pm
- Bluegrass
  
  Which state(s)?
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:59am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Victoria, NSW, Queensland, South Australia.
    Western Australia gets a pass for now. NT, Tassie and ACT are the least brutal states to be locked into.
    
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    September 5, 2021 6:14pm
- MCos
  
  The C130 made three flights to Kabul and evacuated NZ citizens, PR & others.
  https://www.nzdf.mil.nz/nzdf/afghanistan/
  Who exactly did those South African cowboys evacuate?
  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/03/us/politics/afghanistan-evacuation.html?referringSource=articleShare
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:52pm
- Nickc2
  
  Can you please provide some evidence for your claims contolii?
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:38pm
  - contolii
    
    Here’s a couple of links in case you don’t want to read The Guardian. It’s actually already been passed.
    
    https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/aug/26/tony-abbott-and-kevin-rudd-could-be-spied-on-by-asio-under-new-laws-heres-why
    
    https://www.infosecurity-magazine.com/news/australia-passes-identify-and/
    
    Since most of the media in Australia are snivelling government stooges, it’s gone mostly unreported so not a lot of people seem to know about it. I only happened to learn about it after seeing someone make a video about it. There’s supposedly some safeguards with the Ombudsman and record-keeping in addition to the requirement for an (probably easily-obtained) warrant, but considering how corrupt both local and federal government is, and how much Scomo’s government routinely guts oversight bodies, I wouldn’t be surprised if those safeguards will be mostly useless. The most shameful thing is Labor actually supports it, so much for them being a party for the people.
    
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    September 5, 2021 5:23pm
    - Nickc2
      
      The way your response is couched says more about you than the act. The act specifies:
      1. Can only be done under a warrant and
      2. Must be part of a criminal investigation.
      I believe we have the same in NZ. Your rantings about corrupt Govt could apply more so to NZ’s current Govt.
      
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      September 6, 2021 7:54am
      - contolii
        
        Are you actually so naive to think that needing a warrant from a tribunal (not a court) will actually be much of a check? Let me give a hypothetical situation: A well-known political YouTuber criticises the government constantly, pointing out mistakes, publishing leaks, exposing corruption, hypocrisy and generally embarressing certain MPs and governments. High-ranking politicians and/or officials could nudge friends in certain places to launch an investigation into let’s say, tax evasion. It’s just an investigation so no problem if he actually hasn’t done anything, right? Oh but tax evasion has a penalty of three or more years so it falls under this new act, now the police can gain warrants to take over not just his social media account but also anyone connected to him, they can modify or add data to his account and maybe one of the officers slips something incriminating about downloading or viewing pedo material. Suddenly the investigation is now on him having illicit materials and that goes public. It’ll end up going no-where because there’s no actual evidence but his name is ruined after someone leaks this new investigation to the press.
        
        Don’t think something like that can happen? Something similarly corrupt already has, the Deputy Premier of NSW was involved in sending anti-terror police to violently arrest and charge the employee of a comedian some months ago. This comedian has been relentlessly covering his corruption and highly unethical behaviour and so his office liased with anti-terror organisations in the police to shut him down. His reasoning? He’d been approached a couple of times in public, he even lied about some of the circumstances surrounding the complaint of “harrassment” that finally led to the arrest. With these new laws, he could potentially engage the police to shut down his YouTube channel while he’s “under investigation” and effectively remove a vocal government critic from the political sphere.
        
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        September 6, 2021 10:15am
Tony Stuart

The Herald has an extensive piece on Ahamed Aathil Mohamed Samsudeen, and how he came to be and remain in New Zealand.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mall-terrorist-attack-lone-wolf-isis-supporter-identified-as-sri-lankan-refugee-ahamed-aathil-mohamed-samsudeen-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-responds/ZKP4IST56NJWH3SPNM5GNF7XI4/

Our immigration system isn’t just slow at letting people in. As this case has shown, it moves at glacial pace deporting people, or having their refugee status revoked.
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September 5, 2021 8:22am
- Tricati
  
  Ardern is going all out to attempt to show that she personally tried to get the prick from Friday’s attack out of the country, but the bottom line is the law prevented him from being deported.
  She can canned oil & gas exploration on a whim to virtue signal to the world, under urgency can change legislation removing citizens rights to a referendum on Māori Wards, and can spend parliaments time on ‘conversion therapy, but can’t change the law to keep citizens safe.
  Already some MSM are running to Ardern’s defense by asking ‘has any other PM had to deal with so many issues’, but my view is yes they have, but dealt with them competently so haven’t turned them in a cluster #$%^ like this shit show.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:27am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    John Key – 2008 Global Financial Crisis, 2010 Canterbury earthquake, 2011 Christchurch earthquake; all in his first term as PM.
    
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    September 5, 2021 11:34am
- Sector 7g
  
  Especially when adjusting laws to remove ones refugee status and have them deported does someone no favours at securing a future position within the UN…….
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:32am
- NK
  
  He was granted refugee status in John Key’s government. That and the article below must be linked.
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5269049/Key-accused-of-scaremongering
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:36am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I’m not so sue NK. Didn’t Ardern say he first came to the notice of authorities in 2016? I suspect there were/are more of his ilk in our communities.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:43am
- Benedict Yu
  
  In commenting yesterday I had assumed that he was not deported because he was a New Zealand citizen. It that is not the case it is a disgrace he was not deported.
  
  If this guy had been a resident of Australia he would have been long gone.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:40am
  - NK
    
    You need to read the Herald link Tony referred to. It explains everything very well. Your frustration is focused on the clash between having sufficient checks and balances in a system reliant on the rule of law, and then the necessary autocracy required in special circumstances. When that autocratic behaviour is exhibited for the current pandemic, people suffer and get upset. I’m one of them! But I’m also one of the people who cherish the distinctions and separations of power our legal system provides. Dictatorships are great when it’s your dictator who has the power.
    
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    September 5, 2021 8:56am
    - PaulL
      
      Yes, but. Coming to NZ as a refugee is a privilege, not a right. So it needs many fewer checks and balances than when the government intervenes in the rights of citizens. Yet we seem to have the most elaborate checks and balances in the refugee system, primarily designed to determine that everyone is a valid refugee, and pretty much no checks and balances on things that directly impact NZers.
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:33am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Paul, he applied for refugee status in late 2011, was turned down in April 2012, but finally granted refugee status on appeal in December 2013. It would appear that a full and proper process was followed.
        
        Like NK, I’m a supporter of there being a clear separation between the politicians and the judiciary. It will be interesting to see if more information is released regarding the progress of this bloke’s appeal against the revocation of his refugee status and deportation. Doubtless he had good legal representation, which in a civil Ed country like ours is his right.
        
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        September 5, 2021 9:41am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      This Newshub story has a very good timeline of events, in table format and easy to follow.
      
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/lynnmall-terror-attack-jacinda-ardern-explains-why-deportation-hadn-t-happened.html
      
      He was due for a hearing before the Immigration and Protection Tribunal on 13 September, however that was postponed due to the current Covid outbreak. It is also noted that the review of his refugee status began in August 2017, just prior to the General Election.
      
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      September 5, 2021 9:51am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        It all seems circumstantial. Timing is sometimes everything. We cannot have refugees on probation for ever. He was waiting on the Court for orders pertaining to his possible removal.
        Backstop: the Police were on alert and following him. I doubt if anything else could have been done. He was a rogue and forcefully exited.
        
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        September 5, 2021 10:10am
  - bronny1
    
    Rubbish. We have plenty of Aussie crims living here. It’s only the aussies who deport their scumbags
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:07am
    - rockape
      
      I thinkNZ had deported about 400 criminals .
      
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      September 5, 2021 12:48pm
- rouppe
  
  They’re really pushing the lone wolf thing and emphasizing this has nothing to do with ethnicity.
  
  Tarrant was an ethnically identified white supremacist by lunchtime.
  
  Why the difference in approach?
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:29am
  - MCos
    
    Tarrant being Australian was never used to vilify Australians except by people who loathe Australia as a matter of course.
    However it would have been ridiculous in both cases not to disclose where they came from.
    
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    September 5, 2021 3:31pm
Benedict Yu

Canada is the first OECD country to announce that COVID vaccines will be required for all people who travel domestically in Canada by air or train.

https://globalnews.ca/news/8122807/canada-election-covid-19-madatory-vaccination/

It will be interesting to see how this plays out. Canada is a huge country with a high reliance on domestic air travel.

The move seems to have about 80 percent support in polling. But if the other 20 percent riot it could get interesting.
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September 5, 2021 8:29am
- Ra Henare
  
  Perspective. Canadian lawmakers are idiots.
  
  https://www.cbc.ca/cbcdocspov/features/canadas-gender-identity-rights-bill-c-16-explained
  
  Which caused the stella rise of Jordan Peterson when he refused to obey.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:45am
- Sede Vacante
  
  People comply because they want it to end, but because they comply it will never end. Anyone who thinks that complying now will make it easier for them later is kidding themselves. The calculus is resistance and inconvenience now, or compliance and the ongoing and even greater inconvenience of complying to every arbitrary edict for the rest of your life. The fact is that if sufficient numbers refuse to buy in, the electronic ID system cannot and will not work. Society will be unable to function.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:32am
- Cinematic
  
  Good luck to those who want to implement this. It will fall at the first hurdle because it has no basis in science.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:48am
- Ed Snack
  
  Would you still insist on those who have had Covid and recovered get the vaccine Benedict ? The claim that you quoted about large numbers of such people getting a second infection and becoming ill doesn’t jibe at all with the paper that found that natural immunity was up to 13 x more effective than that from vaccination. Those two claims are contradictory on the face of it, have you decided which one is more likely correct ?
  
  Forcing people to undergo a medical procedure without benefit is unethical at the best.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Firstly I don’t insist on anything.
    
    Secondly, nobody knows how long natural immunity lasts.
    
    Thirdly, the large scale studies shows that you get twice the immunity by being vaccinated after recovering from a covid infection.
    
    https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7032e1.htm
    
    But you do what you want.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:09pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

All for telling the truth.
Marine Lt. Col. Stuart Scheller said:

“The Marine Corps will assign an investigating officer. Most likely a Colonel. Once the investigating officer finalizes his recommendation, the Marine Corps will decide if they should pursue court-martial.” It it goes to court-martial, Scheller added: “I will be found guilty and will probably do some jail time.
https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/lt-col-stuart-scheller-said-he-expects-to-do-some-jail-time/?
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September 5, 2021 8:30am
- artemisia
  
  Meanwhile the DeBary Diner in Florida had to close as it ran out of food after a surge in patrons following request for Biden supporters to eat elewhere. Because Afghanistan and US military deaths. And the diner has received donations from around the world to provide free meals to verterans.
  
  A court-martial leading to this Marine’s incarceration – sounds like a powder keg.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:59am
- crikey
  
  Leighton Smith, in his podcast #126, interviewed a retired US Lt Col who touched on what Lt Col Scheller said, and also on the depth of feeling within US military on the Biden withdrawal. I think the interview is worth listening to (accessible through iHeart Radio podcasts).
  
  A problem with what Scheller said is that it is not being said publically what the senior commanders’ views were. They may have opposed the withdrawal in the way it was conducted but wanted to preserve their employment and subsequent pension. But also, they would recognise that Biden is the Commander in Chief and has ultimate responsibility for how he takes advice and for the decision.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:28am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Stuart Scheller is far from done. I do hope he does not have PTSD. He just wants honest answers. Your move.
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR7jBsR0D10&t=600s
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:14am
- curry4me
  
  Steve Otto(North Shore) I hope President Trump makes him Chairman of the oint Chiefs in 2024. Meanwhile, I’m sure there will be a give a little page to pay for his defence.
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:48pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    He said he doesn’t want a give a little page. Any donations should go to the families of the slain 13, and his wife.
    I am sure Trump will do something for him
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:08pm
Stu2

It would have been simpler to have let Mr S go to Syria

A Russian/Syrian/Nato/US air strike would have probably prevented three shoppers ever being critically wounded
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September 5, 2021 8:42am
Maggy Wassilieff

Something seems very odd with the refugee status granted to Aathil Samsudeen.

Originally he was not granted refugee status, but won on appeal in 2013.

But clearly he had family back in Sri Lanka, living an unpersecuted life and even travelling to Nz in 2013. They were aware that he was suffering mental health problems throughout his life.

My father still doesn’t know my brother is dead because he has been missing him so much and is very ill these days.

“Unfortunately, Aathil was suffering from some mental health problems in his life. He suffered a lot during his political torture at home. We were grateful he found the country where he wanted to live.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mall-terrorist-attack-lone-wolf-isis-supporter-identified-as-sri-lankan-refugee-ahamed-aathil-mohamed-samsudeen-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-responds/ZKP4IST56NJWH3SPNM5GNF7XI4/
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September 5, 2021 8:48am
- NK
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/5269049/Key-accused-of-scaremongering
  
  Has to be linked to this?
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:58am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Paul Buchanan suggested yesterday a possible detainment under the Mental Health Act, At first, I thought that was an assumption that the psychiatrists would come to the party. But taking a look at his photograph after its release he didn’t look particularly sane and he certainly would have been asked about the threats he made online. It seems the authorities missed the bus and Paul was right. The police Commissioner spoke of inventive attempts to deal with him, a psychiatric analysis was probably one of those. It may not have resulted in his deportation but a psychiatric order (a danger to himself or others) of some kind may have resulted in a better outcome.
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:07pm
  - Jack5
    
    A “better outcome”?
    
    Such as 20 casualties in hospital knife attack?
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:18pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Usual old story…
    Our Prisons get filled up with mentally ill folk.
    
    No-one in Prison Service/Corrections/Police able to treat the criminally insane….and no decent treatment options out in the big nasty world for mentally disturbed violent folk.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:37pm
- GJM
  
  And a refugee, tormented there so couldn’t return, yet goes back in 2016, and returns alive.
  It seems very common for these fakugees to return home for a visit once they have citizenship. The Algerian country shopper who destroyed his passport has done the same
  
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  September 5, 2021 4:29pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Agree the refugee criteria needs cleaning up, if not scrapped and re-imagined.
    Didn’t that Chez kickboxer prisoner who allegedly had Cindy’s Phone number go back to his country of origin and return whilst he had refugee status in NZ? Funny eh?
    
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    September 5, 2021 4:51pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Travelled back at least 2 times.
      Remember he was also operating under different names..
      
      More than one Jan Antolik entered New Zealand at various times. The review (requested by the minister) of the original case file endeavoured to verify this record of events and was not able to do so.”
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/109532801/new-information-shows-immigration-nz-knew-karel-sroubek-travelled-back-to-czech-republic
      
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      September 5, 2021 5:12pm
I remember when

So here we are in ‘essential’ New Zealand.
A community divided in two.
Either an ‘essential’ worker or – ‘essential’ you stay home.
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September 5, 2021 8:53am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Let’s close down the smelter & use the leccie for bit coin mining!
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September 5, 2021 8:53am
JibberJabber

“Pfizer CEO now claims “three booster shoots per year.”

When will the scam end, when we are required to get a “booster” every time we step out the front door?
This is a wealth redistribution scheme the Communists could have only dreamed of.
Congrats Pfizer, scumbags…
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September 5, 2021 8:56am
- kowtow
  
  Big Pharma gave us the opioid epidemic .
  
  Now they’re giving us a covioid epidemic.
  
  Win win for them , the rest of us ,not so much.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:08am
Maggy Wassilieff

How can this Government sanction the wastage of such beautiful fresh produce?

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/growers-forced-throw-food-no-way-sell

Why are we restricted to buying our fresh produce from the big supermarket chains during lockdown?
Why can’t farmer’s markets operate?

Is it all about keeping control in the Union-led workplaces?
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September 5, 2021 9:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  In Level 4 in Christchurch a great fruit and vege shop opened. Good prices and produce. They simply opened up. AFAIK they stayed open for all of Level 4. More should have done so and dared the police to shut them down.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:34am
  - 7kiwi11
    
    Yes our local fruit and veg shop is open at L4 too. They also sell milk and bread so maybe get by calling themselves a dairy?
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:31am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      Precisely – a fruit and vege store in Whanganui did the same last year, and again at the moment.
      
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      September 5, 2021 11:37am
      - alex Masterley
        
        There is a green grocer open in Balmoral – Beside the covid testing station as it happens.
        
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        September 5, 2021 12:55pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Is it all about keeping control in the Union-led workplaces?”
  
  I think it is simpler. A bunch of low bandwidth thinking Ministers who just associate food shopping with “supermarkets”. The fresh produce on sale in supermarkets in Christchurch during level 4 was expensive and low quality. It was great to see the rebel fruit and vege shop open.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:38am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Where was it?
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:11am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      You really think I will post that?
      
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      September 5, 2021 8:29pm
Caine9

Ardern’s press conference yesterday and the continuing media messaging about the New Lynn attack is “its not our fault”.
I am finding this utterly sickening. “We did everything we could” repeated over and over just doesn’t cut it. Just fuck off, show some substance for once.
Hiding behind inconvenient law is pathetic. If he was identified as a threat to society, he could have been held on periodic detention. Isn’t that what we do to other criminals who are an ongoing risk?
The tone of the whole press conference was passing responsibility to others, even bringing in the last National government. How desperate and shameless of her.
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September 5, 2021 9:09am
Spoff

Simon Thornely of Auckland University has been consistently correct from the very beginning:
https://www.covidplanb.co.nz/category/news-and-videos/
Baker and the obese hair freak consistently wrong.
Gawd save us from lettered idiots.
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September 5, 2021 9:16am
JibberJabber

Not satire…
https://twitter.com/jennamclarke/status/1434060834041303040
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September 5, 2021 9:16am
AndyW

When someone seeking refugee status (usually a young man) claims that their life is in imminent danger no-one asks about why their families are still at home? You escape a threatening regime but you leave you family behind to face the same danger. I’d assume that the authorities would have no problems hunting your family down if you did a bunk and your actions would increase the risk of harm to them. Samsudeen claimed he and his father experienced serious problems yet Dad’s still home in Sri Lanka. Am I missing something here?
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September 5, 2021 9:24am
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like this Government has known that Aathil Samsudeen has obtained his refugee status Fraudulently.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/450778/auckland-supermarket-terrorist-government-unsuccessfully-tried-to-strip-his-refugee-status

I don’t blame our PM for this…

We seem to have few checks on the folks requesting refugee status once they are in NZ.
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September 5, 2021 9:28am
- lifesgood
  
  And yet they want to bring those Manus Island queue jumpers here. Honestly! You couldn’t make this up.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:38am
  - Paulus
    
    Didn’t Golly G bring in her friend from Manus and has now got him a job at Canty Uni and refugee status.
    The whole thing was a fraud from from start to finish and she should be prosecuted and he should have refugee status rescinded.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:48pm
- PaulL
  
  “”I asked for work to be undertaken to look at whether we should amend our law, in the context of our international obligations,” she said.”
  
  In other words, no urgency, and more worried about our “international obligations” than protecting NZ.
  
  Options that existed were:
  – removing appeal to the tribunal, perhaps only in cases where people have been convicted of crimes
  – automatic revocation of refugee status if convicted of a crime with a sentence of more than 1 year
  – automatic revocation of refugee status if convicted of one of a list of crimes
  – special purpose legislation to just name him and revoke his refugee status
  
  Basically the problem wasn’t that their hands were tied, it was that there wasn’t enough urgency or focus. Yet they were following him 24×7, so clearly recognised just how elevated the risk was.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:39am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Looks like everyone knew he was seriously mentally disturbed, but no-one was advocating mental health care/treatment.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:48am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      At one point whilst he was in custody (I think) a psychological report was requested but he refused to be examined.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:18am
    - Scott
      
      Do not fall into the trap of saying it’s mental illness. That’s not right. A Muslim who dies fighting the infidel is following the tenents of the Muslim religion.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:55am
    - Jack5
      
      Why endanger our psych nurses and doctors with dangerously mad, white-hating terrorists?
      
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      September 5, 2021 12:50pm
  - NK
    
    Yes, hands were tied. For once I believe or PM. But the question nevertheless remains: If numerous governments can pass laws under urgency for no reason, why couldn’t successive governments have done so here?
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:53am
- rouppe
  
  Every person deported said that they were at risk.
  
  Has any of them actually been harmed back in their home country
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:39am
cmm

Our little half-Kiwi/half-Srilankan terrorist was apparently under 24/7 surveillance.

That begs the questions:
1) How much police resourcing is tied up by these?
2) How many such cases (for all crims, not just terrorists) are there in NZ?

By my back of en envelope calculation, once you’ve deducted traveling time, office time, re-training time and time learning the new police haka, figuring out their pronouns, the average cop can probably deliver 25 hours of time in the field a week. Then there’s all the management overhead (eg. cost of their boss, etc) so it’s probably 20 hours of effective field time per week.

That cop needs holidays, sick leave, public holidays etc., so they’re good for 42 weeks per year.

So each cop delivers 840 hours per year.
Two cops needed 24/7 = 17520 cop hours per year, so we need 21 cops full time to provide 24/7 surveillance of one such person.

21 cops!

That’s 4 or 5 country police stations!
At $150k per year that’s over $3M per year!

And they need to be top-shelf field cops who are prepared to shoot when needed (I suspect that well over 50% of our cops would not be prepared to shoot someone when the chips are down).

So how many of these buggers are out there each with their own 21-cop personal police forces?
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September 5, 2021 9:34am
- Benedict Yu
  
  The head of the SIS was asked this at a select committee a few years ago. I can’t find the link.
  
  IIRC she said that there were about 50 dangerous people under surveillance at any one time. That probably does not mean 24/7 police tailing for all of them. But it still must add up to a large bill.
  
  Maybe I am dumb on this but it seems to me that if you are not a citizen and you are so dangerous that you need constant surveillance you should be deported. What am I missing?
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:47am
  - cmm
    
    Deporting Muslims? You’re joking right.
    
    Anyone that has a criminal history and is mentally unstable or otherwise high enough risk that they need surveillance should be in preventative detention.
    
    They did it to Alfie Vincent. They can do it again.
    
    Holding a person in prison costs $100k-$150k a year. These guys cost us $3M.
    
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    September 5, 2021 9:56am
    - thirteenstars
      
      “Anyone that has a criminal history and is mentally unstable or otherwise high enough risk that they need surveillance should be in preventative detention.
      
      They did it to Alfie Vincent. They can do it again.”
      
      Not with this guy. Alf Vincent’s case was completely different.
      
      Perhaps you’d like to explain how this terrorist could have been lawfully placed in preventative detention.
      
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      September 5, 2021 10:32am
      - JibberJabber
        
        Apparently, expressing a desire to kill people does not meet the criteria, you actually have to.
        
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        September 5, 2021 11:42am
      - cmm
        
        He was mentally unstable with tendency to violence and was obsessed with a culture that glorifies killing westerners. Such a high risk that he effectively had 20 cops assigned full time to his case.
        
        Burton was locked up in preventative detention on this basis that they were a danger to society. It is almost impossible to control a person with violent impulses if you let them walk around in society.
        
        Alfie Vincent was in preventative detention on the basis that the strong probability he would go kiddy-fiddling again. That’s something far easier to control than someone going Allah Akbar in a supermarket.
        
        Alfie could have been put under 24/7 watch – keeping him away from small kids (eg, heading him off if he was walking towards a school). As I said, that’s pretty easy to control vs a nut-job with a tendency to violence who is allowed to go into crowded places.
        
        If Alfie and Burton could be put into preventative detention then why not this guy?
        
        For the slow of wit, I am not at all suggesting that the Vincents and Burtons of the world should be walking around in society – just using them as benchmarks.
        
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        September 5, 2021 11:48am
      - thirteenstars
        
        “He was mentally unstable with tendency to violence and was obsessed with a culture that glorifies killing westerners. ”
        
        You’re conveniently forgetting–or don’t know–the actual law of the land which did not allow for him to be placed in PD.
        
        You use “should” several times. Fine, but your criteria for PD in this case is as loose as hell and would result in many people being subject to such a regime.
        
        Parliament should do its bloody job and write law and sentences that allow for proper incarceration lengths for heinous crimes.
        
        PD allows for incarceration where no crime has been committed, violating the principle that you are innocent until proven guilty. That’s a very dangerous power to place in the hands of the state and should not be granted lightly, if at all.
        
        You *should* realise the principle behind hate speech laws is the same as that with PD: that being that you are considered a danger despite not having committed an actual crime.
        
        The concept of pre-crime or thought crime is not only a slippery slope but the first refuge of those who would sacrifice freedom for security.
        
        Again, the terrorist under discussion could not have been given PD under the law. And I wouldn’t trust the current woke crop of politicians to get any such extension to the current law right without it posing more of danger to society than most criminals.
        
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        September 5, 2021 1:31pm
  - burt
    
    What you are missing is that optics are more important than outcomes.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:00am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    This watchfulness is proper for the Police. It is part of their historic duty in keeping the peace. Further, it means those who may have gone rogue are being watched and not dragged before the thought police. It does help us to keep a diverse society with reasonable freedom. I wouldn’t like to see it tightened further.
    Freedom always carries a worthwhile risk.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:21am
    - cmm
      
      “This watchfulness is proper for the Police. ”
      If you believe that then do you believe Burton and the Alfie Vincent should also have been released back into the community on 24/7 surveillance?
      
      No, this guy should have been in preventative detention. Preventative detention exists for people like this.
      
      Freedom carries a risk/cost. Sure, freedom for whom though? Risk/cost for whom?
      
      Freedom carrying a risk is fine if the same people carrying the risk are the same people getting the freedom. It is broken in this case when the person getting the freedom is not the person carrying the risk/cost.
      
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      September 5, 2021 11:13am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        We all have to take a risk for freedom. We cannot second guess every decision by those trusted to care for us. We should resist the attempt to turn us into functional machines. The rules we have now weren’t arbitrary and some are very ancient.
        
        My concern is that reaction by an amateur govt may lessen our freedoms rather than protect them.
        
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        September 5, 2021 2:24pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        No, this guy should have been in preventative [sic] detention.
        
        cmm, I see you have completely ignored my response to you yesterday, here: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/09/could_more_have_been_done.html/comment-page-1#comment-3010776.
        
        The Countdown terrorist had not been convicted of a sexual or violent offense that warranted a sentence of preventive detention. In this regard, see also Nickc2’s comment, here: https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/09/could_more_have_been_done.html#comment-3010873.
        
        As thirteenstars says, you’re basically saying what the law should say, not what it actually says. On this particular matter, you have lost the plot.
        
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        September 5, 2021 2:41pm
  - rouppe
    
    You’re missing the appeals process.
    
    And out of touch Justices
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:40am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’m not missing them at all. (I’ve been involved in matters at the Court of Appeal level.)
      
      Justice usually follows common sense which is as much as is reasonable to expect.
      It would not be difficult to worsen that which has been the work of centuries by amateur bungling to fix the unfixable.
      
      Justice cannot work by referenda. We select trustworthy people of sound reputation, knowledge and discernment to sit on the bench. Most of the time they get it right and the appeal courts continue the fight if need be. It would be better if the processes were faster but the to and fro-ing does take time and the supply of Court time is scarce.
      
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      September 5, 2021 2:35pm
Tomtoddy

PM Ardern said the New World attack was “not faith related”. Today’s cartoon in the Government’s highly paid mouthpiece – Stuff – indicates again the attack was not “a faith attack”.

Question. What is a faith attack? Or more germane, when is an attack where the perpetrator is obviously involved in a faith on a daily basis, who shouts a clear “faith” based slogan as he swings the knife not “faith” based?

Why is the Government so keen to have us believe it was not “faith” based? In another unrelated story today there was reference to a “fundamentalist Christian” in a derogatory manner as though that explained everything. Two faced?? Manipulation?? Brainwashing from the highest office??
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September 5, 2021 9:53am
- burt
  
  They also said it was not race based.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:58am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    It was clearly race-based. One of the other shoppers, with similar ethnicity to the terrorist, said “he didn’t seem interested in me at all” while he was hacking away at his victims, all of whom were of European ethnicity.
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:11am
- cmm
  
  What bullshit she speaks.
  
  He Alah Akbarred.
  
  He was being “treated” in a mosque.
  
  Of course it was faith related.
  
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  September 5, 2021 9:58am
  - Paulus
    
    Thought I read that he was living at the local Mosque, so would automatically five times a day be daily indoctrinated.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:53pm
- lifesgood
  
  Because they are terrified of the retribution.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:01am
- KevO'Brien
  
  When a likely wannabe Paradise seeker has a gun battle with the Police while calling on his deity is he not fulfilling the orders of his “holy” Book?
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:15am
- Taieri
  
  PM Ardern said the New World attack was “not faith related”.
  ————–
  
  Just about every news item starts with: “The Islamic State supporter who stabbed (…)”.
  
  Perhaps, at least in the PM’s view, Islam is no longer a faith…
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:40am
- rouppe
  
  The language is crucial. Ardern is setting the language boundaries.
  
  If you want to disagree with her you have to argue about the faith because that is the word she used.
  
  The key is to turn the language. It doesn’t have to be faith based.
  
  It can be ideology based.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:46am
- Yvette
  
  Tomtoddy – PM Ardern said the New World attack was “not faith related”
  
  The Prime Minister contradicts herself in her statement –
  “It was despicable, it was hateful, it was wrong. It was carried out by an individual, not a faith, not a culture, not an ethnicity – but an individual person who was gripped by an ideology that is not supported here by anyone or any community.
  “He alone carries the responsibility for these acts. Let that be where the judgement falls.”
  
  In the one sentence, Ardern says “not a faith” – “but an individual person who was gripped by an ideology that is not supported here by anyone or any community”
  Subsequently – The Prime Minister said Samsudeen was “inspired by ISIS.”
  
  The Islamic State, however, has demonstrated the capability to launch a range of deadly terrorist attacks in Europe, Asia, and elsewhere, some orchestrated by the group’s senior leaders and others carried out by low-level supporters. “Lone Wolves,” individuals embracing the Islamic State’s call for violence but largely acting alone, have also attacked the United States – Daniel Byman, who testified before the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations regarding the geographic scope of ISIS to inspire lone wolves and conduct terror attacks in Europe and around the globe. [1]
  
  Samsudeen – told a fellow worshipper at a mosque he planned to join Isis in Syria, and that if he were stopped from leaving, he would commit a random “lone wolf” style knife attack in New Zealand. [2]
  
  Samsudeen was arrested at Auckland Airport, assumably enroute to Syria to join ISIS.
  
  ISIS is a faith and political entity, and aspires to return Islam to its seventh century roots
  An attack in Kabul which killed up to 170 people – including 13 US troops – has been claimed by a local branch of Islamic State (IS)
  IS-K – Islamic State Khorasan Province – is the regional affiliate of the Islamic State group.
  It is the most extreme and violent of all the jihadist militant groups in Afghanistan. [3]
  
  The very recent terrorist activity in Kabul, especially the airport, could have been a further trigger for the Auckland attacker.
  
  [1] https://www.brookings.edu/testimonies/beyond-iraq-and-syria-isis-ability-to-conduct-attacks-abroad/
  [2] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mall-terrorist-attack-lone-wolf-isis-supporter-identified-as-sri-lankan-refugee-ahamed-aathil-mohamed-samsudeen-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-responds/ZKP4IST56NJWH3SPNM5GNF7XI4/
  [3] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58333533
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:39am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Countdown, not New World.
  
  Blatant misreporting.
  
  //
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:51pm
Surely Knott

“RNZ: Auckland Supermarket terrorist: Government unsuccessfully tried to strip his citizenship” RNZ has turned off facebook comments. You are censored by the state media from hearing the citizens voice on whether the governments actions were appropriate.
Are we the worlds most censored country? Stuff has now turned off commenting on all facebook posts. And RNZ, NZ Herald, and Newstalk ZB now routinely turning off comments on numerous posts.
Is there any other paper in the world that bans comments like stuff and RNZ.
I have had a check and NY times, bbc, la times, the australian, the age, al jazeera, daily mail, telegraph, the guardian, the brisbane times, the israel times… all allow comments.
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September 5, 2021 9:58am
- Jack5
  
  RNZ is the State’s own Red Radio, and the other media you cite are on Labour’s subsidy payroll.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:14am
ABS4EVA

I don’t understand

CINDY she says

“Be Kind to one another”

every time she says

“Be Kind to one another”

REALLY BAD THINGS HAPPEN

Do people not listen to CINDY
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September 5, 2021 10:03am
I remember when

Consequences:
Auckland lockdown hits building supplies:
Tasman Insulation, owned by Fletcher Building, told its clients its Christchurch warehouse was out of Pink Batts, and because its Auckland factory was unable to operate, was unable to get any more.
We will not be able to supply our product anywhere in NZ, or take orders, until Auckland’s restriction reduces to Level 3.
Only “extremely limited stock” in Auckland.
Who could ever have seen that happening.
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September 5, 2021 10:04am
Maggie Pie

It may be purely coincidental, but my partner was wondering whether Ahamed may have developed a real hard-on for the recently arrived ‘ISIS Bride’ ….and had been setting out to impress her (?)
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September 5, 2021 10:08am
- JibberJabber
  
  A match made in Paradise surely?
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:14am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Another one that’s going to need to be 24/7 surveillance, what kind of life is she going to live here knowing she wont be able to take poo with out someone watching? How will that affect her mental state?
  
  She’s a disaster waiting to happen, given she’s been around ISIS so long i’m sure she has bomb making knowledge, hell she could be an expert at making them herself, how would we know.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:16am
  - Paulus
    
    Often it is the next generation that cause the greatest problems.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:55pm
Ruawai

Maggie your good advice stands now more than ever to always grab a can of oven cleaner when you arrive at the supermarket.
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September 5, 2021 10:08am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And you don’t even need to buy it Rua!
  Just do what I do, either leave it sitting at he back of the ‘self-checkout’ machine when you exit….or tell the checkout operator someone else must have left it in the trolley.
  Meantime, it’s the equivalent of open-carry the entire time you’re shopping.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:49am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Or, you could buy & use it to clean the oven.
    
    Just saying.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:49pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      I take it you don’t have the latest Bellingham with the self-cleaning triple (4) ovens then?
      
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      September 5, 2021 3:53pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        So considerate of you M.P. sparing your dear Cleaning lady from scrubbing out greasy ovens.
        
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        September 5, 2021 5:15pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Pork Belly is the worst…..2 hrs @ 250 and it’s everywhere!
        
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        September 5, 2021 6:37pm
BeaB

Remember the baying crowd of Labour and the Greens when John Key tried to reform our security and surveillance services?
It would be fascinating to read some of those accusations flung at him in and outside Parliament.
Labour is reaping what it sowed. Their hysteria and Kim Dot Com madness have exposed us to these dangerous lunatics.
I just hope our new Afghan neighbours are coming here to live in peace.
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September 5, 2021 10:10am
BeaB

With the domestic economy going to the dogs and housing, poverty and health problems mounting daily, you need a steady supply of emergencies to keep your crown as the Queen of Crises.
God forbid she run out of dramas and actually has to do some competent governing.
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September 5, 2021 10:16am
I remember when

Are we back to reality.
Yes, extremists of any type are dangerous.
“White extremists” can be dangerous.
But, one type of extremist has a ‘track record’ of terror attacks across the world.
This is unfortunate for the rest of their countrymen/religion but it is a FACT.
This means treating them the same as everyone else presents problems.
As the graph on Kiwiblog showed things are on the improve and hopefully can be overcome.
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September 5, 2021 10:21am
curry4me

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/blog/2021/09/03/effective-sept-16th-florida-will-fine-any-organization-or-business-that-attempts-to-discriminate-based-on-vaccine-status-5000-per-inci

Effective Sept 16th Florida Will Fine Any Organization or Business That Attempts to Discriminate Based on Vaccine Status, $5,000 Per Incident.

Florida Governor Ron DeSantis is in the crosshairs of every leftist organization in the country.
The laser-like focus of the Florida legislature and executive branch toward the protection of individual liberty is really making the collectivist activist groups apoplectic.
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September 5, 2021 10:24am
- Tauhei Notts
  
  I saw on an international betting site that Ron DeSantis is fourth favourite in the 2024 presidency race. That is, behind Biden, Trump and Harris.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:14am
  - curry4me
    
    Tauhei Notts: Yes, if President Trump doesn’t run in 2024, DeSantis will probably do so.
    
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    September 5, 2021 12:58pm
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/mVTO9yWX2M4/

How Patriots will Crush CRT.

I sat down for an interview with Dr. Carol Swain and Dr. Christopher Schorr to talk about Critical Race Theory and their brand new book, Black Eye for America: How Critical Race Theory Is Burning Down the House. [16:09]
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September 5, 2021 10:24am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vPPLr6zGevg

The world has its eyes set on Afghanistan. The Taliban is going to announce their new government soon. The new regime has been projecting a more moderate self-image. Schools are reopening across Afghanistan under the Taliban. [3:52. I guess CRT isn’t in the curriculum? Shock horror gasp! No Pride flag! /sarc]
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September 5, 2021 10:25am
doggone7

Faith? Ethnicity? The essential is that this is a guy who took a knife to a gun fight.
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September 5, 2021 10:25am
Rich Prick

The last time I looked Sri Lanka was a pretty peaceful place, why would anyone need to refugee from there to here?
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September 5, 2021 10:31am
- doggone7
  
  Search ‘Tamil Tigers.’
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:52am
- Ed Snack
  
  Not that long ago it most certainly wasn’t peaceful. Very nasty civil war, and no doubt some left over tensions. Ended formally in 2009 having been active for over 30 years.
  
  Just for interest, the Tamil Tigers were one of the very few non-religious (generally speaking) organisations to deploy numerous suicide attackers. You can sometimes, it appears, inflame people sufficiently with political rhetoric to self immolate with a chosen target.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:56am
  - Rich Prick
    
    2009 was quite some time ago. By that measure, half of Asia should still be fleeing from something.
    
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    September 5, 2021 12:25pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  It’s barely two years since the Easter Sunday bombings of three Christian churches during Easter services, and three luxury hotels, catering primarily to western tourists. 267 people were killed.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:42am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Sri Lankan Police are investigating any links Samsudeen had with folks back in Sri Lanka
    
    n Colombo, Police Headquarters said the Criminal Investigation Department (CID) has already launched a probe to identify any persons that the terrorist had been in contact with in Sri Lanka.
    
    https://www.sundaytimes.lk/210905/news/new-zealand-attacker-identified-lankan-police-on-trail-of-his-contacts-454592.html
    
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    September 5, 2021 7:34pm
Maggie Pie

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SILLY QUESTION…..

Why are these two in a hospital together?

https://twitter.com/PeteButigieg/status/1434167993769111552

SHEEESH!!!
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September 5, 2021 10:32am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  They need guidance in their chest-feeding?
  Their stitches haven’t healed?
  Being treated for post-natal depression?
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:46am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    My partner reckons the pair of them need to see a Gynaecologist.
    
    LOL!!
    
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    September 5, 2021 10:54am
    - Jack5
      
      For any others who, shamefully, like me, would have to Google “Buttigieg” …
      
      He’s a Democrat who’s the American equivalent of the Minister of Transport and, as Wikipedia puts it, was ” the first openly LGBTQ person to launch a major presidential campaign.”
      
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      September 5, 2021 11:08am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Pass me the sick bucket.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:38am
  - curry4me
    
    Captain Mainwaring: You can have it right after I’m finished with it.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:07pm
Yvette

Auckland attacker’s mental disposition
Samsudeen was Tamil – a minority ethnic group persecuted by Sri Lankan authorities during a decades-long conflict – and claimed he and his father were attacked, kidnapped and tortured because of their political background.
His claim to asylum was supported by scars on his body, as well as a psychologist’s report which said Samsudeen presented as a “highly distressed and damaged young man” suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and depression. [1]

However, rather ironically, safety-wise – … It’s said Samsudeen told a worshipper at his mosque that he planned to join Islamic State (IS), and, in May 2017, he was arrested at Auckland International Airport. It’s believed he was heading to Syria, where IS was carrying out attacks amid the country’s civil war. [2]

He told a fellow worshipper at a mosque he planned to join Isis in Syria, and that if he were stopped from leaving, he would commit a random “lone wolf” style knife attack in New Zealand. [1]

And just as Tarrant’s family knew him to be deeply mentally disturbed, Samsudeen’s knew similar –
“We saw his mental health got worse and worse during the last 10 years or so”
– Terrorist’s family’s statement [1]

Questions of his mental disposition, and possible triggers, relate to a comment by Police Commissioner Coster –

While no specific details could be provided, Coster said on Saturday some of Samsudeen’s actions earlier on Friday suggested he was planning for the future, with a “vision beyond the day yesterday”. Of those subscribing to dangerous ideologies in New Zealand, he was considered to be among the most concerning cases, the commissioner said. [2]

What does a “vision beyond the day yesterday” mean?

And – 6.14pm: Armed police remain on the Glen Eden street where the man lived. A mosque on the street is connected to the incident, 1 NEWS understands. [3]

Police forensic teams in New Zealand investigated an Auckland mosque on Saturday, following a terror attack in the city which injured seven people. The perpetrator was an extremist inspired by the Islamic state group, and had been living at the Glen Eden mosque under court-ordered supervision. – Republic World, India [4]

With Samsudeen’s official and family asserted mental disposition, and being ISIS inspired, would not living in a mosque be something akin to a committed arsonist being forced to live in a fire station and not attend call-outs, or think of your own suitable metaphor relating to an assumed intolerable situation?

[1] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/auckland-mall-terrorist-attack-lone-wolf-isis-supporter-identified-as-sri-lankan-refugee-ahamed-aathil-mohamed-samsudeen-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-responds/ZKP4IST56NJWH3SPNM5GNF7XI4/
[2] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/lynnmall-terrorist-named-identity-revealed-after-court-lifts-suppression-order.html
[3] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/live-updates-man-shot-dead-after-multiple-people-injured-west-auckland-supermarket
[4] https://www.republicworld.com/amp/world-news/rest-of-the-world-news/police-at-mosque-where-auckland-attacker-lived.html
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September 5, 2021 10:38am
- Paulus
  
  Was he trying to leave New Zealand to fly to Syria on a New Zealand Passport ?
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:04pm
I remember when

If you have covid-19, and worms.
Will Ivermectin kill the worms.
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September 5, 2021 10:41am
- Jack5
  
  If you have ticks, and go through the sheep dip, Ivermectin will also kill these insects.
  
  Ivermectin advertisement: for horse, cattle, and sheeple.
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:13pm
oldfella

Apparently the cops are going to be highly visible at supermarkets and other stores for an indefinite period to make us feel safer. I trust they will all be armed.
Can Commissioner Coster guarantee they are all highly trained in the use of their weapons in case they need to rush into another store and shoot dead an offender?
He said yesterday that they had a limited number of highly trained officers who could shoot an offender in a confined public space like a supermarket.
So, if every supermarket in NZ today has armed police outside – and the number could be in the hundreds – how well trained are those officers? And is the public now safe not only from terrorists, but officers with inadequate firearms training (who shouldn’t be put in this position)?
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September 5, 2021 10:57am
- cmm
  
  The number of cops trained well enough to operate firearms properly in surroundings like a supermarket is dismally small. I doubt 1% of our cops are really up to that.
  
  I’ll wager that far less than 50% of NZ cops would even shoot someone in the open – even without the added risks of doing so in a confined space.
  
  Shooting someone is not pleasant. I would not wish it on anyone. But if you’re going to step up and wear blue then you should be prepared to do it. Then, the force should be prepared to train the people to shoot competently and keep up the training (ie. 4 days a year minimum retraining) and make sure they are prepared – technically, mentally and physically to do this part of their job.
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:31pm
- GJM
  
  It takes 7 minutes to pass a law giving politicians a pay rise. It can be done if there is a will.
  
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  September 5, 2021 4:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

A Waikato University University Professor talks sense

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/john-gibson-lockdowns-again?postId=d3adfe6d-5604-46fa-9ee9-6322e777f8d8
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September 5, 2021 10:59am
oldfella

What a shame we no longer have political cartoonists like this (apart from Garrick Tremain).
https://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2021/09/the-week-in-pictures-interwar-years-edition.php
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September 5, 2021 11:00am
- curry4me
  
  oldfella: Thanks for this.
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:24pm
Bluegrass

The refugee protocols should now be revoked.

They were drafted, back in the day, as a result of the upheaval to mainly European folk caused by WW2 and the changing of nations’ borders after WW2.

The protocols never contemplated TW mass migration.

The protocols are being gamed by criminals and the unscrupulous, aided and abetted by bleeding-heart leftard extremists who coach these folk from totally different cultures and mindsets that their situation is all the West’s fault, one way or another, and that they, the refugees, are entitled.

The sheer chutzpah of these people is amazing.
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September 5, 2021 11:09am
- Jack5
  
  In particular, scrap the Immigration and Protection Tribunal.
  
  Protection of New Zealand citizens should have priority over Woke protection of ratbags the State wants to deport.
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:19pm
I remember when

RNZ: Has any NZ PM faced as many crises as Ardern: Guyon Espinor:
“Why are more things happening in the news right now,” my daughter asked.
The dread of the 1pm covid update was like a screensaver to my seven-year-old.
After looking at Guyon’s article I wondered if the problem is the front-and-centre PM.
Are we constantly having disasters extended and personalised by seemingly endless messages from the PM.
The constant introduction of new laws, changes to existing laws – almost endless information.
Often with very short notice and limited consultation.
Now we are into what seems like a year and a half of direction , coercion, responsibilities because if covid.
How much pressure can we withstand before the pressure becomes too much.
Would it have been the same with any other Prime Minister.
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September 5, 2021 11:27am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Between the 2008 and 2011 elections, the Key government dealt with the Global Financial Crisis, bringing New Zealand’s economy back to surplus two years ahead of projects, the 4 September earthquake which caused widespread damage throughout Canterbury, and the 22 February earthquake in Christchurch in which 185 people were killed, making it New Zealand’s fifth-deadliest disaster.
  
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  September 5, 2021 11:48am
  - cmm
    
    … and all the while with a MSM baying for their blood.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:33pm
- Jack5
  
  The post of “I Remember When” at 11.27: Are we constantly having disasters extended and personalised by seemingly endless messages from the PM.
  
  Yes.
  
  This is public-relations style, heavily managed, “focus on me” messaging. It’s from a politician whose academic background was the quasi-academic subject of communications.
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:23pm
  - Jack5
    
    Jacindarella didn’t front up for the 1pm TV bulletin to the nation today.
    
    Instead TVNZ broadcast a slab or trivial crap from the deputy PM, including birthday wishes to his Mum, and propaganda from the health head honcho on how X new cases of Covid 19 is good news.
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:54pm
- blue collar
  
  This is why labour will lose at the next election . People like stability . They have gone nuts .
  In the middle of a pandemic
  Bob jones did an article on why they will lose along these lines , I don’t know how to attach s link . Check out no punches pulled , why labour will lose the next election .
  You’re not the only one . Everyone is thinking the same thing , this mob has gone too far and must go , bar a few that think she saved us , feminists , and radical Maori
  
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  September 5, 2021 4:02pm
Maggy Wassilieff

We’ve have a previous case of a refugee terrorist with severe mental health problems who keeps on telling authorities that she will commit a crime.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/321707/nz-plane-hijacker-threatens-repeat-action
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September 5, 2021 11:44am
- peterwn
  
  In the old days she would have got a one way ticket to Seacliff Asylum like the Haining Street killer did (he escaped the gallows because he was insane).
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:01pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  And I wonder if she’d be one of the 40 others Andy Coster referred to who have a retinue of STG Officers sneaking around behind them 24/7?
  
  Just imagine the terror she could inflict with a leg of pork given 3 minits unsupervised in Countdown 🙁
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:07pm
blue collar

Totally off topic but curious . Do regions outside of Taranaki hv to wash recycled rubbish ? We do , and hv bin inspectors to enforce it and will stop picking it up if a few transgressions occur . I’m thinking if aucklands water troubles are so acute , Or anywhere else , this is madness . I estimate 5-10 litres a day per household minimum doing this , probably more. How many households in Auckland ? 200,000 households would generate 2 million wasted litres of water a day at this rate . My mate in Brisbane says they don’t hv to , surely recycling plants can melt it down and cream the scum off or suck the silt out however it works .
If we don’t hv the technology let’s get it , water is more precious than ease of recycling surely
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September 5, 2021 11:59am
- cmm
  
  Plastic containers (milk etc) generally have stickers on them. I’ll bet nobody is pulling those off.
  
  This means a massive washing/cleaning exercise is needed to remove those anyway. A few drops of milk in the bottom of the bottle is not going to change anything.
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:25pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Grief..

Now the mother of the terrorist tells us he was back in Sri Lanka in 2016… getting radicalised.

His mother, Ismail Fareeda, has told a TV channel in Sri Lanka that neighbours from Syria and Iraq radicalised Aathil Samsudeen when he was injured in a fall in Sri Lanka in 2016.

Doesn’t seem a genuine political refugee to me if he’s travelling back and forth to his home country.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/450786/lynnmall-attacker-brainwashed-by-neighbours-mother-says
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September 5, 2021 12:04pm
- cmm
  
  Now that the son has been shot by NZ cops she, and the rest of the extended family, are probably due their special resettlement visas for NZ.
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:22pm
- kevn
  
  @Maggy… Must have saved a pile on the bene to travel. I can’t imagine he would have been ‘working’.
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:32pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Maybe he was a mate of Ricky’s in the film projection business.
    
    Which is where he went wrong.
    
    Should have joined the Greens & brown-nosed his way high up the list.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:46pm
- rouppe
  
  Not entirely clear to me whether the neighbours were in Sri Lanka or back here in Auckland, because she also says:
  Fareeda said there was a change in her son after he left Sri Lanka and settled in New Zealand in 2011.
  
  It’s conflicting to say he was radicalised by neighbours after a fall in 2016 but also that he changed as soon as he got here in 2011
  
  But I do agree with the idea that if was happy to travel back to Sri Lanka then it would seem he wasn’t in need of refugee status.
  
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  September 5, 2021 12:44pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes, I noticed that..
    
    But I have also been assured that RNZ is our most trustworthy source of news and as I lack a B.Communications degree, who am I to doubt their word.
    
    https://www.newsroom.co.nz/hold-in-media-we-dont-trust
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:01pm
  - Paul Marsden
    
    The article clearly states ..”he was injured in a fall in Sri Lanka in 2016″
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:30pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      But now that sentence has been changed on the RNZ site….and reads….
      
      His mother, Ismail Fareeda, has told a TV channel in Sri Lanka that neighbours from Syria and Iraq radicalised Aathil Samsudeen when he was injured in a fall in 2016.
      
      https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/450786/lynnmall-attacker-brainwashed-by-neighbours-mother-says
      
      Looks like someone from the Government is keeping an eye on KB.
      
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      September 5, 2021 2:46pm
- Paul Marsden
  
  And when did he arrive back in NZ and did he receive any ACC for his injuries?
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:26pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Shouldn’t have. ACC only covers injuries suffered in NZ.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:45pm
oldfella

Covid-19: Public health experts call for alert level 2-plus to combat Delta mutation
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126285992/covid19-public-health-experts-call-for-alert-level-2plus-to-combat-delta-mutation
Stuffed mistakenly opened the comments on this one (almost 300 when I last checked) and the pushback is … not kind.
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September 5, 2021 12:13pm
- Stu2
  
  Those “experts” are not going to cope with opening up
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:55pm
- PeeJay
  
  don’t you just love it when they read the room wrong and end up having to close the comments section because they aren’t getting the comments they wanted? This has happened a few times now – I’ve also see the odd anti-labour article floating around during the week early on – probably before the usual powder-puff pro-labour articles appear after the briefings from Ardern’s comm’s teams! Almost makes me wonder if there are some folks in the stuff office that object to the propaganda and cause a bit of mayhem when they can before senior management wake up and press the re-set button?
  
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  September 5, 2021 3:35pm
cmm

One of our government’s examples of being seen to do something while doing almost nothing must surely be the pathetic performance of our C130 that flew halfway around the world, did three flights into Kabul over a 5 day period, then just parked up in UAE for a week doing nothing, and has now flown back to NZ.

Someone ??was it Wayne Mapp?? made the pathetic excuse that maybe they were not allowed flight slots by the coalition partners. I call bullshit.

During the whole period, a Kenyan (well really South African) 727 was flying three flights a day. This is the semi-mysterious white plane 5Y-IRE owned by a semi-mercenary outfit piloted by a Niel Steyls.

If they could get three slots a day then surely our C130 could get more than three slots over 5 days.

Sorry Wayne (if it was Wayne), I don’t buy that excuse.

The reality must be accepted: this was all politics. The politicians pulled the plug on this mission after doing the absolute minimum to be seen to be doing something.

What a massive waste of resources. What shirking from doing their real work. All for Cindy’s optics.

They’d have done much better by hiring Niel Steyl’s crew for a day to pull Kiwis out.

https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/42193/the-story-of-the-mysterious-white-727-that-appeared-at-kabul-after-the-bombing-of-abbey-gate

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/nz7005/#
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September 5, 2021 12:20pm
- doggone7
  
  Call bullshit all you like. You don’t know the what and the why.
  
  To quote your own words: “The reality must be accepted this was all politics.” Your comments that is.
  
  Sitting somewhere in the world on a computer not having to making any decisions past which words to use in criticising someone is easy.
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:05pm
  - cmm
    
    It would have been logical to send the C130, then have them making many flights (at least one a day for the period they were there).
    
    It would have been logical to not send the C130, but hire someone else to do the job.
    
    But the choice they made was all puff and no substance. Three flights with a C130 transport about the same amount of people as those people did with the 727 in on flight. The difference is that the 727 were doing three a day.
    
    Of course there are risks associated with flying the C130 into Kabul. There are risks they could have been shot down. But that’s a military plane and military personnel. They exist for risk (rather than, say, flying in an Air NZ plane).
    
    What’s the point of having a military if you’re too squeamish to use it?
    
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    September 5, 2021 1:47pm
    - doggone7
      
      It would have been logical to ask people on keyboards in New Zealand what the best thing to do was too.
      
      What’s the point of having a couple of million of us on keyboards ready to share our expertise and not use it. Unfettered minds too, not cluttered with the minutiae around myriad factors, permutations and realities and on the ground reality.
      
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      September 5, 2021 2:35pm
kevn

@cmm. When reading posts like yours today, I am thrilled to have the internet and thank you.
Puffery and bullsh*t from arden and her mob is just exposed. Easily and often..
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September 5, 2021 12:37pm
The worm that turned

So is Jacinda still going to publicly criticise Scott Morrison for deporting 501 crims back to NZ?
Asking for a friend.
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September 5, 2021 1:04pm
AndyW

“His mother, Ismail Fareeda, has told a TV channel in Sri Lanka that neighbours from Syria and Iraq radicalised Aathil Samsudeen when he was injured in a fall in Sri Lanka in 2016.”
He claims refugee status in 2011, citing threats/danger…..yet he goes back in 2016…..FFS.
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September 5, 2021 1:11pm
- Yvette
  
  AndyW, from the same article you quote LynnMall attacker ‘brainwashed’ by neighbours, mother says.
  
  The Sri Lankan government is promising to work with New Zealand authorities over Friday’s stabbings at the LynnMall Countdown supermarket, AFP reported.
  It had been investigating whether Samsudeen was linked to the bombings in Colombo on Easter Sunday 2019, which killed 279 people.
  There were 279 people killed in the attacks on three churches and three hotels.
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/450786/lynnmall-attacker-brainwashed-by-neighbours-mother-says
  
  Like some others who have claimed asylum or refugee status here because of life threatening circumstances in the country they have come from, but have since returned to the country concerned, how many times has Samsudeen in fact returned to Sri Lanka where he “claimed he and his father were attacked, kidnapped and tortured because of their political background”?
  And was that why “Immigration NZ (INZ) “were made aware of information that led them to believe the individual’s refugee status was fraudulently obtained”?
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:33pm
- greybeard
  
  The article now has no reference to 2016
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/300399836/lynnmall-attacker-brainwashed-by-neighbours-mother-says
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:44pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Looks like someone will be putting in a Question to our Government to discover if this chap has travelled out the country or not.
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:48pm
  - PeeJay
    
    If there is a question, suspect it will be up to ACT to do the heavy lifting on this one. I think Collins is vulnerable to an extent from her time as Justice Minister, unfairly perhaps. Anything she raises on this will be easily deflected with a ‘why didn’t you do something about it’ and we all know how the MSM loves to attack her. Regardless, based on Nationals support for Labour over the Christchurch attack, I can’t see them going on the attack this time. Just like then, it’ll probably be down to ACT and Seymour to ask the questions that should be asked. Whether we ever get the honest answers though?!!
    
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    September 5, 2021 3:24pm
- lifesgood
  
  What on earth is wrong with our border control. Surely a refugee from any country should have their home country flagged on their passport and a warning showing if they try to go there.
  
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  September 5, 2021 3:55pm
CAKE FACE1

A question for the lockdown lovers (the brainwashed 85%), such as the owner of this blog:

Why don’t you support a lockdown just for over 65 year olds?

Virtually no people under 65 years old die from Covid, in any case.

Btw, CAKE wouldn’t lockdown at all, but he might advise the over 65 year olds that they may want to consider doing this voluntarily.

It is amazing how when people are force fed with propaganda, they lose the ability to think.
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September 5, 2021 1:36pm
- Batman
  
  “Virtually no people under 65 years old die from Covid, in any case.”
  
  This is demonstrably false. Which raises questions about who is brainwashed and who isn’t.
  
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  September 5, 2021 1:42pm
  - CAKE FACE1
    
    Show me your numbers, Batty Boy!
    
    15 2
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    September 5, 2021 2:24pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    “This is demonstrably false”
    
    If this were the case you demonstrate it. With evidence. But you seldom if ever do.
    
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    September 5, 2021 2:31pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Diversion in 3, 2, 1 ….
      
      8 2
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      September 5, 2021 3:11pm
    - JibberJabber
      
      A tactic oddly reminiscent of Cameron Slater of the now defunct WOBH blog LoL.
      Haven’t visited his new one to see if he’s up to his old tricks.
      
      3 1
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      September 5, 2021 4:16pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Approximately 48,500 NZers have died since 1st April 2020. Over that same period 27 NZers have died ‘from’ Covid and the mean age at death is 81.5 years.
    
    Your ‘demonstrably false’ claim is utter bullshit. As usual.
    
    14 3
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    September 5, 2021 2:53pm
    - Cinematic
      
      Batshit. I think you’ll find it’s Batshit.
      
      12 4
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      September 5, 2021 3:14pm
    - kevn
      
      @kk… I reckon plenty have died way too early from deferred treatment/ops as well. In excess of the 27 for sure.
      
      11 1
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      September 5, 2021 3:41pm
    - Albert_Ross
      
      About a quarter of covid deaths in New York City have been among people under 65
      
      https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/coronavirus-age-sex-demographics/
      
      4 1
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      September 5, 2021 4:09pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Yes.
        Age Range:
        0 – 17 years 9 deaths, 6 with underlying conditions
        
        18-44 601 deaths, 476 with underlying conditions
        
        45-64 3,413 deaths, 2,851 with underlying conditions
        
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        September 5, 2021 5:01pm
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    Batman,
    
    “Virtually no people under 65 years old die from Covid, in any case.”
    This is true.
    
    Please see: https://toyokeizai.net/sp/visual/tko/covid19/en.html
    
    Japanese data. Please see the graph Tested Positive By Age (right side, third down)
    You can see that among the almost a quarter of a million people in their 30s who have tested positive, only 44 have died (and we don’t know what comorbidities were at play, typically diabetes and hypertension)
    
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    September 5, 2021 6:11pm
Maggie Pie

A BEZZIE RETWEETS

If you do nothing else today….read the comments on this tweet

https://twitter.com/msjessienz/status/1433715228458426371
10 2
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September 5, 2021 1:52pm
Maggie Pie

And UK’s Nigel Farage hits the nail right on the head…..

https://twitter.com/_ZooStation/status/1433897213868924929
12 2
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September 5, 2021 2:07pm
- doggone7
  
  I laughed at that. Farage is concerned about who gets into the country. “… shows us how careful we must be about who we allow into our countries.”
  
  His ancestors got into England in the 1800s and letting them in was obviously a big mistake.
  
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  September 5, 2021 2:30pm
- Muttonbird
  
  I think you got the wrong guy, Maggie.
  
  2 18
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  September 5, 2021 2:45pm
blue collar

Made my day Maggie thankyou . For what it’s worth , all the Maori boys at work are sick of being told they are victims and need special treatment, hate labour , I do believe labour’s biggest mistake was pandering to the Maori caucus and pushing through their. Separatism agenda
At the end of the day , you’re pandering to 16% of the population , and offending the rest minus the woke snowflakes . Political suicode coz Cindy hasn’t the guts to push back , can’t waot to vote them out
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September 5, 2021 2:55pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Just as Candace Owens says – ‘left the plantation’
  Labour are going down in a screaming heap, there will be casualties – the welfare dependent
  
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  September 5, 2021 3:48pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Are you awake? See where these leftist Labour Marxists are going?
Around the world, people are waking up!?
Copied…..
When I was a HS sophomore – decades ago! – my World History teacher was Mrs. Holloway, but we all called her Granny Holloway. She was a slight woman, scarcely 5 feet tall, seemingly fragile, but full of vim and vinegar….you know the type.
She could speak for hours about the Fall of the Roman Empire, the Inquisition, the Industrial Revolution, and the World Wars. She never sat while she lectured, never stood at a lectern, but moved around the room making eye contact with all of her students.
She was demanding too, and I can’t remember how many papers were sent back to me because she would note “you can do better than this, Miss Schaal.”
One day during class, an office aid interrupted her lecture to hand her a note. She read it silently, apologized, and said she needed to leave the room. We knew it had to be important because Granny Holloway stopped lectures for no one.
We sat in the room talking to one another when the door opened, and in walked Mrs. Abels, another teacher in our HS. She explained to us that Granny had been faced with an emergency, a serious one, and it was questionable if she would even be returning to finish out the semester.
We were stunned. Would we get a chance to tell her goodbye? Would we get updates, so we would know she was ok? Mrs. Abels assured us that we need not worry, that Granny was safe but needed time away, and that the best thing we could do for her, and the best way we could show our devotion to her, was to be cooperative with her replacement.
Mrs. Abels confirmed that she had been asked and had agreed to step in as Granny’s replacement. Cheer up, she told us, this could be a good thing. Other teachers still believed in endless homework and projects with deadlines and hard work.
She would not bring that into our class. She believed in clean slates. If there were grades that we did not like, she could give us a chance to bring them up. She asked us what suggestions we had to make the semester a better learning experience.
Someone mentioned that lectures were boring and we wanted more films. Done, she said. Someone else mentioned that a free day now and then would help us if we needed to catch up on work in other classes. She didn’t see a problem with that.
She asked us how we felt about an end-of-semester party. Um, yeah, sounded very good to us. And on and on. Mrs. Abels listened intently and agreed to all of our suggestions, continually emphasizing that her concern was that we have a good learning experience and enjoy the semester.
She also reminded us that we were lucky to not be sent out to other classes where we would be working to catch up, and that of course this was all for Granny.
Near the end of the period, shortly before the bell rang, the door opened and Granny sauntered in with her usual Granny Holloway attitude. “How did they do?,” she asked. “Marvelous,” said Mrs. Abels. “They were completely in my hands.”
Granny then faced us and said “And that, my students, is how a dictator takes over a nation. Not with guns or tanks or laws or mandates. They do it using a poster child and promises and gifts and protection from an enemy.”
I can’t remember a lesson all through 12 years of public school that made such an impression on me, and has stayed with me. We are among wolves in sheep clothing, many are being deceived.
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September 5, 2021 3:15pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Mmm. This story doesn’t actually demonstrate that the students were “completely in her hands”. It needs to show that Mrs Abels was able to use her power to convince the class to do something they didn’t want, or that they knew was wrong, or to believe something completely untrue.
  
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  September 5, 2021 6:32pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Jesus H Christ. How many of my neighbours have mowed their lawns 3 times this week since last Sunday? ALL OF THEM ffs. Saw my dick off. Cant even relax with old dvd movies
11 3
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September 5, 2021 3:40pm
- dcrane
  
  Neighbor near me used to do his whole lawn with a weed-eater. Extra annoying.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:51pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Go for a run you lazy bastard
  Stop Whinging it is not like you had to go shopping
  a dodge the tewwowists
  
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  September 6, 2021 1:16am
Nickc2

FYI, Official Summary of Court Dealings WRT NZ’s latest terrorist.
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/09/nz-chief-justice-releases-summary-of-court-dealings-re-islamic-terrorist-ahamed-aathill-mohamed-sams.html
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September 5, 2021 3:49pm
Nickc2

Could this be a typical scene at Auckland’s North and South borders? Aust sets the example with families separated on each side of the border (NSW and Qld).
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/09/insane-politics.html
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September 5, 2021 3:58pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Yeah well there is a bridge – and north there is a tunnel. There is whenuapai for food imports, face it those C 130s fly in circles and loops almost every day. lots of noise happening now
  
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  September 5, 2021 4:06pm
lifesgood

The Chinese dictator has dictated that sissy men must no longer be shown on TV. He wants masculinity on show. Nothing wrong with a bit of masculinity, is there?
9 1
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September 5, 2021 4:05pm
- dcrane
  
  Might be a savvy move. The CIA is probably using identity politics campaigns to undermine them. Sure has worked well against Americans.
  
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  September 5, 2021 10:53pm
Maggie Pie

Just overheard that ex-pat American guy Prof Paul Buchannan being interviewed on ZB. Reckoned the attack in Countdown was not actually a Terrorist attack….but more likely a ‘hate crime’.

Wonder if the STG have Paul under 24 hour surveillance?

SHEESH!!
12 1
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September 5, 2021 4:08pm
- paulscott
  
  Buchanan has called every single terrorist attack ever a lone wolf [ without association ] attack, despite all of these being militant Islam. . Buchanan is a crack pot socialist who pretends he was a security military analyst agent for the USA, He is deranged and egotistical in my opinion and writes at KiwiPolitico. Some of the low class media believe his fake credentials.
  
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  September 6, 2021 12:24am
dcrane

Life in a country where getting people vaccinated wasn’t so low on the list of the government’s priorities (or beyond its capabilities!):

https://twitter.com/DanScavino/status/1434231781964886021
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September 5, 2021 4:23pm
NoFax

That story going around that people are over dosing on Ivermectin – turns out it’s not true.

https://www.zerohedge.com/covid-19/rolling-stone-horse-dewormer-hit-piece-debunked-after-hospital-says-no-ivermectin

The hospital where the original doctor was associated with (didn’t actually work there for the last 2 months) put out a press release that debunked it.

Another wonderful piece of so called journalism from the legacy media. But I’m sure there will be people out there still claiming horse medicine is killing people.
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September 5, 2021 4:40pm
Maggie Pie

We don’t actually have a ‘Countdown’ in Remmers….(thank goodness)

Can u imagine how out-of-place an Ahole like this would seem in NW?

https://twitter.com/1NewsNZ/status/1434378525537042435

Just saying.
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September 5, 2021 5:05pm
CAKE FACE1

Here are our last 10 Prime Ministers:

1. Sir Robert Muldoon
2. David Lange
3. Geoffrey Palmer
4. Mike Moore
5. Jim Bolger
6. Jenny Shipley
7. Helen Clark
8. John Key
9. Bill English
10. Jacinda Ardern

How would you rank them in terms of performance (or intelligence, if you prefer)?
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September 5, 2021 5:28pm
- Poppa
  
  It is a tie for last place
  
  Bolger & Ardern
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:13pm
  - paulscott
    
    Why Bolger Poppa, I can’t remember . I couldn’t give Key any points, he was there for the 4th, 5th, and 6th Helen Clarke terms .
    
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    September 6, 2021 12:18am
- hullkiwi
  
  Performance or intelligence based on their political cunning?
  
  4 of them won 3 elections
  1 of them is clueless, but has political cunning second to none
  1 was meant to be intelligent but was a failure as a PM
  2 of them are 2 time lovers.
  1 was a good politician, but lost his nerve, and
  The tenth, she was just a space filler.
  
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  September 5, 2021 8:48pm
- paulscott
  
  Cake I was pretty sure of where you put them all but Moore. And I thought Lange could fill into two places, one further clue if you can
  
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  September 6, 2021 12:05am
MrTips

The mosque shooter, who turned up unannounced, was caught and disarmed within 36 minutes.

S was taken out within 60-90 seconds before he could do more serious damage.

Our cops don’t muck about do they?
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September 5, 2021 6:22pm
- paulscott
  
  They didn’t have to hurry at all in one instance,
  
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  September 6, 2021 12:06am
fernglas

If you want to know the real reason you are being so enthusiastically being locked down, it is for these reasons:
1) Your vaccination rate is the lowest in the OECD (except for maybe Mexico)
2) Your ICU capacity is the lowest in the OECD (except for maybe Mexico) https://www.oecd.org/coronavirus/en/data-insights/intensive-care-beds-capacity
3) Your obesity rates are the 4th highest in the OECD (just behind Mexico) https://www.oecd.org/health/obesity-update.htm
Did your government rush to vaccinate you when the virus arrived? Did it treble the number of ICU beds? Did it tell you to get the kilo’s off? To stop smoking?
Why not?
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September 5, 2021 6:31pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Our Government is starting to release information about A.A. Samsudeen’s travel out of NZ.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/lynnmall-terror-attack-perpetrator-left-new-zealand-despite-being-on-government-terror-watch-list.html

Will we learn whether he ever returned to Sri Lanka?
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September 5, 2021 8:34pm
Jaywalk

Just in case people haven’t caught up with it, they are doing consultation on self-identifying sex on the birth certificate. The birth certificate is a primary identification document not a tool for validation and apart from everything else will distort official information held and the data that comes from it. Allowing every criminal in NZ to morph identity easily multiple times is just an added bonus, there’s absolutely no misuse provisions.

There’s only about 8 days to go, they had a Crown Law review saying insufficient consultation and impact assessment on rights and took until after a second reading and then only allowed a few days. I think they hope it will fly under the radar.

Speak Up for Women and Save Women’s Sports Australia have templates that you can adapt to provide a guideline which link to the submission form or you can submit in support of their submissions and just do extra points if there is something more needed to be said or the template doesn’t cover it. Men as well as women are entitled to same sex schools and spaces under the law.

They are also doing consultation on the conversion therapy bill too and if people have time it would be good to submit any concerns about that too, particularly in relation to preventing any questioning of identity claims.
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September 5, 2021 11:14pm
ABS4EVA

Be Kind to one another

Team of 5 million

Jacinda has it all under control

In fact NZ is so sorted they DON’T NEED HER

So she shut Parliament
1 1
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September 6, 2021 1:10am
ABS4EVA

I have been Raising

Christian Free Flying Pigeons

as a Legitimate Protest against ISIS

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3107027/ISIS-bans-pigeon-breeding-punishable-public-flogging-seeing-birds-genitals-overhead-offends-Islam.html
2 1
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September 6, 2021 1:19am

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