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September 15, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 15 September 2021

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Tony Stuart

A name suggestion for Jacinda’s vaccination bus:

The Clustertruck
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September 15, 2021 8:01am
- lifesgood
  
  Jabba the Hun.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:12am
- Paulus Gnome
  
  Oh please!
  
  Show some respect!
  
  It is maori language week dontchaknow bro!
  
  It should be te Taraka tautau.
  
  Who knew there was te reo for truck . . .
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:14am
  - thirteenstars
    
    It’s Maori Language Week? How the hell can you tell the difference?
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:34am
    - igm
      
      With Ardern’s diction it is hard to tell the difference.
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:11am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I’m getting fed up with misused Maori being used in place of English.
      
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      September 15, 2021 11:41am
  - Hometruth
    
    Yes the wheel hadn’t been invented so how could there be a truck
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:22pm
- Frank the tank
  
  C’mon Tony we all know it will have a Maori name by day’s end being Maori language week and all that……..
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:16am
  - KiWombat
    
    Had to laugh when I saw the Maori name for virus, and even their latest invention for Covid !
    
    “Mate” is really a a bit too chummy, and over the top !
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:35am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      “Mate” is, of course, the Maori word for death.
      
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      September 15, 2021 8:37am
      - Odakyu-sen
        
        As in “check mate”?
        
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        September 15, 2021 9:56am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Prounounced ‘ mar – tair ‘ …….mate.
        Ka mate……I am dead. (but I don’t smell yet) 🙂
        
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        September 15, 2021 11:21am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        If that is the case, there are one or two amongst who a shoe-ins for walk on parts in the Walking Dead because they DO smell!
        
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        September 15, 2021 12:11pm
  - I will not surrender
    
    It will also feature as many macrons as possible.
    
    I wonder when they will make a treaty claim against the English for gifting them the written word so they could use it in the Magna Carta.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:28am
    - oldfella
      
      BTW, Wanaka has just found some missing macrons and is now pronounced: Warnarkar.
      Heard that this morning on the AM show so must be right. /s
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:58am
  - tf78
    
    Great for sight to give your daughter a Maori middle name.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:04am
- Yvette
  
  But I’d still retain the Mr Whippy “Greensleeves” tune, but with the lyrics –
  
  I have been ready at your hand
  To grant whatever thou would’st crave;
  I have waged both life and land
  Your love and goodwill for to have.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:19am
- MrTips
  
  Nice! Or they could put Willie and Angry on it and call it LaboursLittlePricks™️
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:20am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Best of the day!
    
    Please send it in to the Hosk/Katie. They are the only ones that would dare to say it for public consumption.
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:54am
    - TWEEDSE
      
      Not sure about Hosk/Katie these days, they seem to have been re-educated into the correct way of thinking recently.
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:04am
      - Frank the tank
        
        I disagree. The Hosk has been scathing of his fellow feckless over the last week.
        
        One of the few good ones….
        
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        September 15, 2021 12:25pm
  - curry4me
    
    MrTips: Priceless.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:17am
- Loddenthinks
  
  I was thinking of “Shot Bro” but I like yours better.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:47am
  - greybeard
    
    Double-Jab Ute
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:15am
- kowtow
  
  All joking aside she played the petty nationalist , again , citing the Ozzie instance and then went on to say ” We can do bedda than that”
  
  Petty , pathetic point scoring and her Media Pardy sychophants lapped it up .
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:04am
  - Loddenthinks
    
    Well it would be point scoring if she actually did score any points, rather than the many own goals she’s delivered, presided over or defended. For example, the pink-haired attention-seeker’s actions were an own goal from the half-way line.
    
    It’s more like sledging, which is stupid when you’re behind on the scoreboard, and even more stupid if she has to go cap in hand to ScoMo to ask for help with the vaccines she didn’t order in time.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:10am
- dcrane
  
  Hardly Early
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:29am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I sent in Jibby Jabber Jungle Juice.
  
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  September 15, 2021 12:44pm
Ra Henare

Why do I think current lockdowns etc are a political ploy not strictly a health strategy.

1. Why on earth would you say we are going hard and fast then give people 48 hours to go home anywhere in NZ. Without any testing/control.
2. Why on earth is rapid testing not in place for essential workers, truckers going in/out of Auckland.
3. Why on earth are masks mandatory in Dress shops/hardware stores, but not in restaurants or bars Under new level 2. How ridiculous that looks for people on Stewart Island or Central Otago or East Cape.

I understand its all theatre extending from the beehive. But lets get real.

PS. I am not suggesting no restrictions. But Pleeese, follow the science.
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September 15, 2021 8:01am
- cmm
  
  Unfortunately the politics does not follow the science, the “science” follows the politics.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:06am
  - G152
    
    The ‘scientists’ have been bought by the politicians in the current government.
    Hey Mum look at me I’m on tele with Cindy
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:12am
  - Nickc2
    
    Science became politicised when it teamed with the wealth redistribution scam known as Man-Made Global Warming.
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:23am
    - kowtow
      
      It has always been politicised , and it’s always by politicians with sinister intentions , that’s how the great Winston S Churchill could use the phrase “perverted science” to point out the evil of politicians using it for their own purposes.
      
      ‘But if we fail, then the whole world, including the United States, including all that we have known and cared for, will sink into the abyss of a new Dark Age made more sinister, and perhaps more protracted, by the lights of perverted science.’
      
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      September 15, 2021 9:09am
      - oldfella
        
        Was Winston referring to Maori science?
        Or is that more ‘pretend’ science (whakapae putaiao)?
        
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        September 15, 2021 11:17am
  - PhilBest
    
    It is astonishing how NZ’s Covid response must be the last one in the world still emphasizing “contact”, as opposed to the real problem always being an environment with builtup aerosols infecting a number of people over a period of time. See my longer copy and paste and link below.
    
    It is hard now to think of any reason other than that managing “contact” is far more appealing to the crypto totalitarian mind, and these officials don’t want this to end. The team is even divided now on this, apparently, with Bloomfield, Hendy and Wiles being the holdouts for the failed orthodoxy. Wilson, Baker and others have woken up and started talking about better ventilation in hospitals.
    
    It really IS as simple as THIS:
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGYyi5DqOzE
    
    When are we going to see that on TV regularly?
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:25am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      When Cindy has conditioned the proletariat in to understanding it was all her idea.
      
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      September 15, 2021 8:52am
- krazykiwi
  
  Good essay on ‘following the science’ here
  Galileo versus the CDC. An extract
  
  Because of our collective faith in scientific research, many of us have come to expect that:
  
  1. An answer can always be provided by scientific means
  2. A single successful experiment can provide clear answers to our questions
  3. Scientific theories have emerged from such successful experiments
  
  It is no wonder we think like this; we’ve been telling this story since at least the 19th century when an argument between Samuel Taylor Coleridge and William Whewell gave us the term ‘scientist,’ if not perhaps earlier, say, since Boyle’s vacuum pump offered the tantalizing possibility of resolving questions of truth in the laboratory.
  
  Yet all three propositions above are false.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:15am
  - PhilBest
    
    I have been astonished, in looking into virology etc in these times, how LITTLE agency the scientists really do have in matters virological.
    
    The public might assume that scientists can manipulate those viruses “as seen on TV” under some kind of magnification just like they might have done with some things under a microscope once.
    
    In fact there is one incredibly tenuous premise after another about what the virus they are working on even looks like, how it is changing over time, where it even is in the tissue they are working with, and what is even the connection between one sick ferret and another.
    
    What they DO have the ability to detect, is RNA. But the process by which detected RNA is “assembled” into a hypothetical virus, and how the bits of RNA got from one tissue sample to another, immediately raises a question to my mind, of “what if” these uber smart people have fallen into some trap of basic illogic? I see that the Heterodoxies Society of NZ is claiming a world-first breakthrough in proving a “double deception” in the way virology is “identifying viruses”. It is not just SARS CoV 2, this is massive. It is like global warming computer models, only in the science of viruses.
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:34am
    - tf78
      
      Even Dr Malone, the inventor of the RNA vaccine has said in a recent interview that natural immunity is the best weapon against Covid.
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:13am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      A virus is what they say the dna assemblage is.
      Reports are that no C-19 virus has been isolated. There is a lot of smoke and mirrors. The quality of the evidence acted on does not justify the actions. It smells of money-making opportunity exploits. Politicians have been ego-trapped.
      
      Sure, some elderly died, but we risk that each season. The teens too are at risk each year, likewise, as they haven’t had the encounters to create the antibodies.
      Epidemiologists are too narrow focused to give advice to any govt who have a much wider duty of care.
      
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      September 15, 2021 11:53am
      - PhilBest
        
        Yes, SARS CoV 2 has not been isolated, and the opponents in this argument are arguing past each other because virology gave up isolating viruses long ago, when they gained the ability to “sequence their RNA”. They regard that as a valid substitute.
        
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        September 15, 2021 12:34pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    You’ll be glad your on the same page as Brian Tamaki KK. Or maybe it was he who you eavesdropped on?
    https://www.facebook.com/ApostleBrianTamaki/
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:32pm
- Frank the tank
  
  They were never about the science.
  
  Have a look at the states and the amount of Democrats that are ignoring their own mandates.
  
  Coming to New Zimbabwe v. soon.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:17am
  - emmess
    
    Like all the servants at the Met Gala forced to wear masks while the elites can do what they want.
    https://www.foxnews.com/media/glenn-greenwald-maskless-met-gala
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:44am
  - RoboRob
    
    What do you mean coming soon? Its been here since day 1. Those in power haven’t followed the rules unless it suited them. Remember the rule about not moving house during lockdown, and then the health minister got caught doing it not once but twice.
    
    Ms masks on at all times, even when walking out doors, Siouxie Wiles and her swimming in he sea (scientist) friend.
    
    JA’s Utes are bad for the environment and only people that must use them should, except for my media personality boyfriend of course.
    
    David, going to Parliament in Wellington during lockdown is too dangerous, but I will fly to the otherside of the world to save the climate, Shaw.
    
    The list goes on.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:44am
- PhilBest
  
  NZ is still following Covid “science orthodoxies” from April 2020. We still haven’t even worked out how to “trace” properly according to the likely circumstances of infection.
  
  Zeynep Tufekci in The Atlantic, October 1, 2020:
  “This Overlooked Variable Is the Key to the Pandemic: It’s not R”
  
  https://medium.com/the-atlantic/this-overlooked-variable-is-the-key-to-the-pandemic-e71fe9bcb315
  
  “…Hitoshi Oshitani, a member the National COVID-19 Cluster Taskforce at Japan’s Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare and a professor at Tohoku University who told me that Japan focused on the overdispersion impact from early on, likens his country’s approach to looking at a forest and trying to find the clusters, not the trees. Meanwhile, he believes, the Western world was getting distracted by the trees, and got lost among them. To fight a super-spreading disease effectively, policy makers need to figure out why super-spreading happens, and they need to understand how it impacts everything, including our contact-tracing methods and our testing regimes…”
  
  “…Super-spreading can also occur indoors beyond the six-feet guideline, because SARS-CoV-2, the pathogen causing COVID-19, can travel through the air and accumulate, especially if ventilation is poor…”
  
  “…Overdispersion should also inform our contact-tracing efforts. In fact, we may need to turn them upside down. Right now, many states and nations engage in what is called forward or prospective contact tracing. Once an infected person is identified, we try to find out with whom they interacted afterward so that we can warn, test, isolate, and quarantine these potential exposures. But that’s not the only way to trace contacts. And, because of overdispersion, it’s not necessarily where the most bang for the buck lies. Instead, in many cases, we should try to work backwards to see who first infected the subject.
  Because of overdispersion, most people will have been infected by someone who also infected other people, because only a small percentage of people infect many at a time, whereas most infect zero or maybe one person. As Adam Kucharski, an epidemiologist and the author of the book The Rules of Contagion, explained to me, If we can use retrospective contact tracing to find the person who infected our patient, and then trace the forward contacts of the infecting person, we are generally going to find a lot more cases compared with forward-tracing contacts of the infected patient, which will merely identify potential exposures, many of which will not happen anyway, because most transmission chains die out on their own…”
  
  “…as Kucharski and his co-authors show mathematically, overdispersion means that “forward tracing alone can, on average, identify at most the mean number of secondary infections (i.e. R)”; in contrast, “backward tracing increases this maximum number of traceable individuals by a factor of 2–3, as index cases are more likely to come from clusters than a case is to generate a cluster.”
  Even in an overdispersed pandemic, it’s not pointless to do forward tracing to be able to warn and test people, if there are extra resources and testing capacity. But it doesn’t make sense to do forward tracing while not devoting enough resources to backward tracing and finding clusters, which cause so much damage.
  Another significant consequence of overdispersion is that it highlights the importance of certain kinds of rapid, cheap tests. Consider the current dominant model of test and trace. In many places, health authorities try to trace and find forward contacts of an infected person: Everyone they were in touch with since getting infected. They then try to test all of them with expensive, slow, but highly accurate PCR (polymerase chain reaction) tests. But that’s not necessarily the best way when clusters are so important in spreading the disease…”
  
  “…Overdispersion makes it harder for us to absorb lessons from the world because it interferes with how we ordinarily think about cause and effect. For example, it means that events that result in spreading and non-spreading of the virus are asymmetric in their ability to inform us…”
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:19am
  - tf78
    
    Similar method to finding the source of post operative infections.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:18am
    - PhilBest
      
      Fascinating, thanks tf78
      
      Again and again in this pandemic, I look into an aspect for myself and am astonished to find long established “orthodoxies” that the officials seemingly do not know in spite of all their time gaining qualifications. Or somehow Covid has to be assumed to be something to which the orthodoxies do not apply.
      
      For example, we were told it was not seasonal. It obviously is. We have been told that natural immunity is no good against new strains, when in fact vaccines are no good against new strains and it is natural immunity that IS. This should not be controversial, it is virology 101.
      
      We have been told not enough people have antibodies, when natural immunity includes T cells and other layers of protection that calculate out to around 3 times as many people as have antibodies. This is virology 101. All suspended for Covid 19.
      
      The circumstantial evidence of how Covid spreads pointed to indoors aerosol buildup. Well understood for TB and Measles. Yet here we are in September 2021 with national officials still assuming the WHO was right about “contact, droplets, surfaces” in April 2020 and no admission of error to the level of negligent homicide meanwhile, is necessary.
      
      So one asks: are all these people working for an enemy power? What would they be doing differently if they were?
      
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      September 15, 2021 12:48pm
- Ehlana
  
  Re: masks, this is what the requirements say with regard to customers:
  “Some people who have a disability or health condition may not be able to wear a face covering safely or comfortably, and so are not required to wear one. These people can get an exemption card but are not required to carry it or show it.
  
  Businesses and services do not need to stop people without face coverings from entering their premises or boarding their transport service, because some people will be exempt from wearing a face covering.
  
  Businesses may wish to require face coverings at their premise. They need to take care when doing so, to ensure they do not discriminate against people with disabilities that prevent them from wearing a face mask.”
  
  From a business point of view, any customer not wearing a mask may be exempt and they are not required to carry proof of that. If you attempt to deny them service, you may be discriminating against a disabled person (very bad PR and possibly illegal).
  
  Which makes it seem like the best approach for a customer facing business would be not to try and enforce it. Instead, put up notices explaining these rules to the public, with a note that abuse of staff or customers will not be tolerated.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:49am
ABS4EVA

Kia Ora Team of 5 Million in

APARTHEID AOTEAROA

I hope you are all being….
Kind to one another…

Remember the Lock Downs can KILL YOU

and the Labour parties approach to Wellness
will be as good as their approach to Housing

So Exercise More
Eat Better and
for you Mental Health

Tell the Powers that be to

KMA

Haere Ra

and Honour the Treaty
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September 15, 2021 8:06am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You forgot to mention – Open your windows
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:07am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    AND GET HONEY AND LEMON
    
    Ever heard of that
    
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    September 15, 2021 3:09pm
Nukuleka

I received the National Party email ‘Our Week In Review’ last night in which it claims that we can ‘stamp out Covid’ once we have high vaccination numbers, saliva testing and so on. What planet is National on if it is telling its supporters this blatant untruth! Stamp out Covid? I despair of National, I truly do.
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September 15, 2021 8:13am
- RockyJ
  
  I agree. Christopher Luxon did an excellent take down of the Three Waters project purely on a cost/benefit basis. He never once mentioned the real agenda which is to hand control of our water assets to Maori.
  It is like they are scared of being labelled “racist” when most of us stopped listening to that some time ago.
  It is as if National are still more concerned by what they imagine the polls are and less concerned with doing the right thing. They will learn, to their cost, that true leadership comes from doing the right thing. Trying to please everyone is weak leadership.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:31am
  - kowtow
    
    He’s a “wet” .
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:11am
    - Jack5
      
      Luxon, when he ran Air NZ, did deals with Ngati Porou, such as putting the tribe’s honey and fish on flight menus, and was going to have the airline buy Ngati Porou’s carbon credits.
      
      That wouldn’t be a bad political approach against the racial separatist drive. Weren’t Ngati Porou the fighting allies of the British colonialists?
      
      If Luxon wants to redeem himself from his Wet brand he could really go after and nail Wily Willie Jackson, Labour’s Minister of Maori Development.
      
      After his brilliant coup in Maorifying Radio NZ, Jackson is now popping up on State TV.
      
      Jackson comes from one of New Zealand’s old extreme-Left, political activist families, and admits he only recently began to learn the Maori language that he is now pushing on non-Maori.
      
      If Luxon wants to make a name for himself he could mark and tackle Jackson with a will.
      
      And get a thick skin. The Leftist web site Newsroom, probably on the Government’s subsidy-bribe list, only last month attacked Luxon on his Maori role. Luxon can take that as recognition he’s potential threat by the State Media Conglomerate (State TV, State radio, and the subsidised newspapers and web sites).
      
      Luxon could begin by stop being Mr Nice Whitie, MP. He could spell out the meaning of the separatism that Jackson and Co. promote, and that is apartheid.
      
      Get wild, Mr Luxon! Put up dartboard with Wily Willie’s picture the bull’s-eye and hit him every morning before work – several times.
      
      Nail Willie!
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:18am
  - Observer of Life
    
    Rocky: “It is like they are scared of being labelled “racist” when most of us stopped listening to that some time ago”.
    Absolutely agree Rocky. They need to just jump in boots and all and tell it how it is. And when they are called racist ask WHY!! Keep pushing for a clear explanation when the truth is steering us all in the face. Grow some balls National!
    And again, Luxon = Woke. He is not their great saviour. He’s another Muller.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:45am
    - tf78
      
      Observer, Winston knows how to do it they should take a leaf out of his book.
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:21am
      - oldfella
        
        tf78, but Winnie is Maori so can get away with tackling Maori issues.
        
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        September 15, 2021 11:24am
      - Observer of Life
        
        Tf78: Winston is the reason we have this problem.
        
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        September 15, 2021 6:32pm
  - jon
    
    TV 1’s Q and A programe last Sunday with the very WET Jack Tame interviewing Local Govt Minister Mahuta didnt include any questions relating to the governance of the Three Water proposal. Governance that contains an inconvenient truth that MSM finds difficult to report on or question.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:06am
    - Paulus
      
      Q&A only allows Labour Ministers on who have submitted questions first.
      Wrong question – no answer.
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:39pm
      - Nickc2
        
        Interesting. It was advertised as the unmentionable interviewing Mahuta about 3 waters.
        
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        September 15, 2021 3:14pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    We are going to have to put up with a lot more of being called racist. Militant Maori are now on the rampage. Most of those are half-castes themselves (the Samoans even have a word afakasi for them) Self ID is not ID only gene testing is going to sort out now the very mixed ethnicities of our peoples. At a guess our “Maori” population would not collectively exceed 30% “Maori” ethnicity. They have largely become one of us.
    
    Maori have no proper claim to undo the Treaty or insist on further rights.
    Their freedom and safety has been maintained. It’s time to freeze the Treaty.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:07pm
- BAM
  
  They believe that is what will get them elected, doesn’t matter if it’s a load of bollocks.
  
  As I’ve written before, they represent corporate NZ, the only thing of interest for National is to get elected and use their time in office to create the most profitable environment for their corporate masters.
  
  That is the whole purpose of what National is all about, took me a long time to see that, but I have and will no longer vote for them.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:39am
  - tf78
    
    BAM – where do you think the money comes from, Grant’s printing press?
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:22am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Fraser House basement dwellers seldom vote National.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:08pm
    - Vory v zakone
      
      The Concern Troll element is becoming more prevalent
      
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      September 15, 2021 6:56pm
KevO'Brien

New Zealand has never been Aotearoa. It’s an activist invention. It was Nu Tirani, literally translated as New Tyranny.

How many Maori are there now? Fractional percentages of ethnicities proven by gene analysis will be be needed for all who class themselves as such.

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/petition-aims-change-official-name-aotearoa
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September 15, 2021 8:13am
- Frank the tank
  
  New Zimbabwe is more apt.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:14am
- Nickc2
  
  Did Maori have a word for tyranny? Methinks you are having a lend here Kev. Go to: https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/petitions/document/PET_99102/petition-of-bruce-mason-nu-tirani-for-new-zealand
  A Govt website where the words to which you refer are described and as intended in the ToW.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:26am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I do prefer my translation Tyranny for Tirani.
    
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    September 15, 2021 3:09pm
- G152
  
  Aotearoa is a pakeha word invented when there wasn’t a Maori word to explain New Zealand
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:34am
  - Nickc2
    
    As someone posted yesterday. I’m sorry I’ve forgotten your handle.
    
    Aotearoa only came about in a fictional story of Kupe written in 1890 by William Pember Reeves.
    The name written in the Treaty is Nu Tirani which is an adaptation of New Zealand.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:23am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      1855 George Grey “Polynesian Myths”
      
      p.35
      Thus died this Maui we have spoken of; but before he died he had children, and sons were born to him; some of his descendants yet live in Hawaiki, some in Aotearoa (or in these islands); the greater part of his descendants remained in Hawaiki, but a few of them came here to Aotearoa.
      
      http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/scholarly/tei-GrePoly-c1-2.html
      
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      September 15, 2021 2:44pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I think it came out of a myth about Maui. Seeing he was a trickster, the wool was being pulled over our eyes even then.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:11pm
Critical Thinker

“The victim of mind-manipulation does not know that he is a victim. To him the walls of his prison are invisible, and he believes himself to be free. That he is not free is apparent only to other people.” – Aldous Huxley, Brave New World

Abusers do this to their victims:

• Isolate them (lockdowns)
• Control them (mandates)
• Repeatedly lie (long list of lies)
• Control what they wear (masks)
• Threaten ability to work (job loss)
• Sabotage their finances (inflation)
• Track movements (contact tracing)
• Don’t respect their privacy (vaccine passports)
• Make them afraid of a world without their control mechanisms in place (mainstream media)
• Demean the victim (mainstream media & politicians do this every single day now)
• Accuse them of being the problem (we all get blamed daily for the virus now)
• Harass or embarrass the victim at work (vaccine mandates/rules at work)
• Tell them it’s all for their own good
• Abusers often have an inability to take responsibility.

Do you get it now? We’re in an abusive relationship with government & the elite.
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September 15, 2021 8:15am
Critical Thinker

NZ Covid Plan B: Vaccine targets no use in Covid-19 policy

“The government recently asked some of New Zealand’s epidemiology experts “Is an elimination strategy still viable as international travel resumes or are we going to need to accept a higher level of risk and more incidence of COVID in the community”. The specialists concluded that: “There is no doubt that this strategy has served us well”. The way out was through high levels of vaccination.

Icelanders have now vaccinated 81% of their population. 73% of cases are fully vaccinated. This figure is inconsistent with the trial evidence of efficacy of the vaccine being 95% in reducing symptomatic infections. The US also showed 74% of cases were fully vaccinated. However, in the UK, 15.7% were fully vaccinated.

Divided by age, deaths associated with covid-19 are 1.57 times more likely in the vaccinated group under 50 years, compared to unvaccinated, whereas in the older bracket the vaccinated are 70% less likely to die from covid-19 compared to the unvaccinated.

The best evidence of overall effect on death comes from the latest update of the Pfizer trial which shows slightly more overall deaths occurred in the vaccinated group than in controls. This means the best evidence thus far indicates a 7% increase in risk of death, comparing the vaccinated to the unvaccinated.

We now have a group of scientists advising the government that cannot see any other strategy apart from elimination as ‘viable’ or ‘optimal’. This is understandable, as they have committed the country to this course of action, one that has cost us at least NZ$50 billion.

Our efforts should be best focused on protecting the most vulnerable, implementing early treatment protocols, increasing capacity in our hospitals, while the majority of those of working age and younger people return to normal life. Overseas data clearly now show that vaccines are not a way out.”
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September 15, 2021 8:20am
- dannz
  
  Looks like they’re working pretty well to me:
  https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/articles/deathsinvolvingcovid19byvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween2januaryand2july2021
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:07am
RockyJ

Jacinda refuses to give us the percentage who need to be vaccinated to avoid lock downs because she is not good at maths. Here is a conversation that might have taken place between her and Grant Robertson.
Jacinda; “Grant, are one billion trees planted and one hundred thousand houses built big numbers?”
Grant; “Yes, Prime Minister, those are very big numbers, and that is why we never achieved them.”
Jacinda; “So that would mean that 70 percent is a small number and we can get that”
Grant; “I think you should leave talking numbers to me, Prime Minister”.
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September 15, 2021 8:21am
Warren

How could anyone trust this Government to not help Maori in there quest to change the Names of our Country and Cities and Towns when they have tried to get the consent from New Zealand Councils on the Three Waters Legislation against many peoples wishes.
If Maori Activists get there way on trying to change the Names of our Country, Cities and Towns why the hell have we been paying Millions of Dollars to them in Treaty Settlements only for Maori activists wanting to change our laws and devide New Zealander’s.
https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/over-10-000-sign-te-pati-m-oris-place-name-petition
This is just another policy from the Maori Party to help Jacinda Arderns cause to devide more of our population.
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September 15, 2021 8:22am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Is Ardern attempting to lock in Maori support for her govt in Parliament.
  Promoting substantive changes against the people behind their backs was once called treason.
  
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  September 15, 2021 12:59pm
Benedict Yu

Judith says “Once vaccine rates got high enough, then you start to say can we treat this like the winter flu each year, she said”

Well based on what is happening in other countries Judith the answer would be “no”. Yet again Judith shows no understanding that after 12 months the protection of these vaccines against infection are going to be pretty much zero.

What they do offer is a bridge to protect people while the virus becomes endemic.

It is clear that politicians including Judith Collins, have no clue about the virus and the vaccines and the implications of the effectiveness of those vaccines for pandemic management.
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September 15, 2021 8:26am
- Prince
  
  So you get an annual booster shot, as we do with the winter flu.
  And yes, some people will die each year, despite the booster, much as they do with the flu.
  Which is exactly what Collins is saying.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:35am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You are making that up. Because you have no evidence that is the most likely scenario. Just as Judith is making it up.
    
    I don’t know what the future is either but the one you describe is the least likely. Specific strains of influenza are short lived. That is why we need a new vaccine every year. How many times in your life have you had influenza? For most people in New Zealand the answer is “rarely”. For me it is once.
    
    The far more likely scenario is that Delta will spread through New Zealand in 2022. Those who have had two (and sometimes) three vaccine shots will get these mild symptoms, in this order of probability:
    
    Headache
    Runny nose
    Sneezing
    Sore throat
    Loss of smell
    
    Note to Judith – these are nothing like influenza.
    
    Hopefully – I say this because we will not know for another six months – natural infection after vaccination will provide strong and long lasting immunity.
    
    My key point is that drawing on Israel and the UK, everyone who is not isolated in some mountain top will get COVID in the next 3 – 5 years. The influenza analogy is wrong. As is the measles analogy, one of the most stupid things I have ever heard from the PM.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:06am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      And if NZ begins to open up over the next two years, there will be a rise in influenza and colds and other readily transmissible illnesses that have not been circulating widely in our lockdowned nation for the last 18 months.
      
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      September 15, 2021 9:16am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Yes excellent point Maggy. So much for the Government spending billions to invest in public transport because CARS BAD. I would avoid public transport like the plague for the next 5 years. Pun intended 🙂
        
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        September 15, 2021 9:24am
    - cmm
      
      Benedict, very likely many people are being infected with flu each year and are not showing any symptoms and are not getting diagnosed with flu.
      
      Like you, I have had flu diagnosed once and it was pretty grotty.
      
      The most likely scenario is what has happened with all flu like pandemics in the past – it just ends of its own accord after 2 or so years (a bit later in nations that try fortress policies), then drifts into the background (like Spanish flu (H1N1 – swine flu) did – popping up occasionally.
      
      For all the hype, CV19 really is not that different, nor is Delta.
      
      The biggest concern for the governments is whether they have enough time to exploit the situation before it goes away of its own accord.
      
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      September 15, 2021 9:34am
      - tf78
        
        Covid was derived from our normal Spanish Flu just with a few extra man made additions.
        
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        September 15, 2021 11:58am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Tf78, the Influenza and Beta Corona Virus families are quite distinct. So Covid-19 is not a modified version of the influenza virus.
        
        It is almost certainly a human modified version of a virus found in bats that was closely related to the original SARS virus. Modified to increase its ability to infect humans as part of a program financed by the USA and carried out in Wuhan.
        
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        September 15, 2021 5:32pm
    - tf78
      
      Benedict, I was reading that lack of Zinc can cause loss of taste and smell. Interesting that that is included in the ‘treatments’ for Covid, along with hydroxychloroquine/Ivermectin and antibiotics. You can have a simple zinc test in the chemist.
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:47am
- RockyJ
  
  Benedict, I believe that the vaccine is worthwhile because it reduces the severity of Covid.
  The greater concern is that Andrew Little as Health Minister has failed to invest in increasing our ICU capacity. So if we were to try to live with Covid case numbers will rise but our ICU capacity is maxed out already. We have half the ICU beds per head of population compare wit Australia.
  The government won’t want scenes like in Italy where critically ill people lie in hospital corridors. That is why we will always be using lock downs.
  Angry Andy used the last 18 months implementing his apartheid health system when he should have been building our critical care capacity.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:37am
  - Nickc2
    
    Yes, I’m informed by someone in the know that ICU facilities can be used for non ICU things but non ICU things can’t be used as ICU facilities.
    Does Little take advice from non-union sources? I seriously doubt it.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:10am
    - RockyJ
      
      You would think that as Health Minister Andrew Little would show up at the 1.00pm podium of truth shows. But he is never there.
      He is the forgotten man in this psychodrama. I wonder why?
      
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      September 15, 2021 9:29am
      - smttc
        
        Because he knows jackshit about health and medicine. It is a joke that he is the Minister of Health.
        
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        September 15, 2021 10:42am
      - Nickc2
        
        He is subordinate to Hipkins in the 2o20 Pecking Order as published and Hipkins is the minister for Covid AFIK.
        https://www.labour.org.nz/2020-list
        
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        September 15, 2021 10:45am
      - Bobba Fret
        
        Same as the previous health minister David Clark.
        
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        September 15, 2021 10:50am
- Frank the tank
  
  For once Ben I believe you are incorrect here.
  
  That is the logical way this should be treated as is occurring in the UK, Much to the angst of the liberal elite who despise this approach yet are hamstrung given the almost universal appeal this has with the British public.
  
  What is happening in places such as Israel, Singapore etc is a halfway house to nothing where they are torn between the politics of nil or low fatality vs back to normal life. This is the way the Blairite will treat Wuflu into the future however in an extreme manner.
  
  Trust me when I say this – the UK-based approach will win out in any country that retains a democratic grounding in their governance.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:00am
- kowtow
  
  What she’s indicating is a way out .
  
  If you want to follow your “experts” we’d be locked up and locked down for ever.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:22am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Given that the best possible protection is having a vaccine shot plus the reinforcement of natural immunity acquired from exposure to the virus, wouldn’t it be fair to say that many vaccinated people are not compliant? 🙂
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:19am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Not sure that is well established Tom. Although there is a study showing the natural immunity plus a shot is better, the actual change is very small. And as far as I can tell they only checked on natural followed by shot, not shot, then catch and recover.
    
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    September 15, 2021 5:34pm
    - Tom Hunter
      
      Just a bit of gentle teasing Ed.
      
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      September 15, 2021 6:15pm
I remember when

BBC News: UK Covid update:
They have 30,000 cases a day and there are 750 in hospitals with covid.
Learning to live with it.
Probably 70% of NZ and 650% of the population have had absolutely no known covid cases and are in a form of lockdown. They have no real idea what the Government is going to do next.
Sounds about where we should be.
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September 15, 2021 8:29am
rouppe

I read in Stuff that a bunch of people want to rename the country and every settlement – even those that had no Maori origin – to Te Reo Maori.

In that piece was the statement:

“I am glad to be a part of a generation who will throw away our colonial past and reclaim the mana of this whenua.”

I’d have more respect for their stance if they divested themselves of everything that had come to them only by way of other cultures.

Every stitch of nylon, cotton, wool or leather. Everything with metal in it. Anything glass or acrylic or plastic. Any vehicle.

Otherwise it’s hypocrisy.
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September 15, 2021 8:31am
- I remember when
  
  Please make Colonialist donations here so that we can achieve our aim.
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:44am
- Observer of Life
  
  Roupee: And that is what the opposition should be pointing out. The facts!!!
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:04am
- Prince
  
  Question for those who want to discard what they deem as ‘colonialism’.
  Would you rather live in Samoa, Fiji, Tonga or Australia ?
  We are becoming a banana republic, led by the media who refuse to publish anything slightly critical of their paymasters.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:20am
- Alwynn
  
  I remember back in 2007 when there was a claim by some Maori leaders to the commercial rights to all Kumara grown in New Zealand. Kumara was theirs was the gist of the claim.
  Unfortunately they then found that all the Kumara commercially grown in New Zealand was derived from species imported from Peru in the latter part of the 19th century. It was a superior species and had completely superceded the earlier, Maori species. Did they then argue that we should pay royalties to Peru? Like hell they did.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:42am
  - namron
    
    Good point alwynn.
    I’d add to the list ALL western music.
    The Missionaries introduced hymns back in the early 1800s and it was gradually adopted by Maori. {I wonder how many Maori would be aware they stole it from the Pakehas – and paid nothing for it! Still don’t.
    They have put incomprehensible maori lyrics to this western “harmonic” music, but they will be completely ignorant of its history.
    
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    September 15, 2021 2:48pm
I remember when

Something we have learned from our treatment of covid.
If you don’t take any risks and make mistakes – you don’t learn anything.
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September 15, 2021 8:34am
Tomsk

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/lockdown-breach-more-than-50-seen-lining-auckland-street-for-tangi/2XW7OBTRYAIB2EUR5B2UBHFJ7Q/
I look forward to the breathless condemnation by journalists and the sainted showpony of the irreparable harm threatening the lives of Maori by these people attending this tangi.
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September 15, 2021 8:35am
- Frank the tank
  
  They have been told to ignore it while our fearless leader takes the hard questions on morning radio stations like the Rock.
  
  Only in New Zimbabwe.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:02am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I see the hearse had the Tipene Funerals branding on it. I wonder if yesterday’s tangi will make the next season of The Casketeers…
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:03am
Paulus

I have been giving thought over the last 24hours based upon the stupidity of the couple that broke the travel rules and found a loophole in them.
It is not that I hope the law will deal with them, but no prosecutions have yet been made by the Police.
It is the vicious Orwellian Hate that is spewing everywhere that I have heard via the so called media.
How New Zealanders can hate is remarkable and is getting worse by the day.
I am considering no longer voting, either National or ACT as they have shown no appetite to counter the left wing ability to hate around them.
See recent comment by the part time Prime Minister and her friend Susi Wild, where because you may do or have something others violently denigrate you – we just keep schtum now as comment get an explosion of verbose rubbish – used to be called balance but no longer available.
How sad New Zealand is now and cannot be seen to get better only worse. Remember first to dob in your neighbour –
Ardern says it is right thing to do.
George Orwell was right
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September 15, 2021 8:36am
JeffW

I presume Maori language week is funded by iwi from the billions transferred to them from taxpayers, rather than the long suffering taxpayer continuing to fork out?
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September 15, 2021 8:37am
- Ehlana
  
  Presume means to suppose with some probability, confidence or evidence backed reasoning Jeff. Assume means to suppose without reason or evidence.
  
  Would you like to reconsider?
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:10am
- tf78
  
  JeffW the bs “Maori” week hasn’t stopped from last year’s “Maori language week”. I’ve had a gutsful of the Covid advertising crap the the language I can’t and don’t want to understand.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:01am
  - Opie
    
    And it just gets more forced down your throat as time goes on.
    
    Now, whenever you open the rova app to listen to radio stations, it auto loads and plays “waiata anthems”.
    
    All part of the stealth takeover to maorify this country.
    
    I like how the poster for this week shows a tiki vomiting out some rainbow spew. Pretty apt really
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:30am
    - Jack5
      
      NZME, which owns the NZ Herald and several provincial newspapers as well as Newstalk ZB.
      
      I’m surprised shareholders and right wing folk don’t go to the NZME annual meeting and ask for the financial justification of the company’s Left-wing bias.
      
      NZME, by including online subscriptions, claims the Herald subscriber “base” is rising, yet Herald newspaper subscriptions have been falling for some time. Digital subscriptions are of less value to would be advertisers. It’s harder to get sufficient adverts on the screen.
      
      Obviously there’s a big hole in the media market, the hole where Right-wing and Centre-Right news would be.
      
      If I had NZME shares I would want to know, from the chairman and board at the annual general meeting, why NZME is avoiding this big market gap.
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:54pm
I remember when

If the answer is only ONE in 970 cases?
What is the question.
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September 15, 2021 8:42am
- mandk
  
  The question is:
  How many people are incorrectly reported as having died of COVID in the latest outbreak?
  
  (Do I get a chocolate fish?)
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:04am
- RockyJ
  
  Brilliant. And a 91 year old at that.
  “A razor perception that cuts just a little too deep” I fear
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:16am
Yvette

Spell out the choice of vaccination – use variation in vaccination percentages to concentrate on informing those specific areas of the choice they have

Ardern on Tuesday – has refused to say what [vaccination percentage] would mean an end to lockdowns, because a single nationwide figure would obscure local variations in coverage.
“Even if you say ‘we want 80 percent’, if you have only 60 percent in one part of the country, people will die in that part of the country. All of us have a role to play in getting our rates as high as possible.” [1]

A single nationwide vaccination % figure should NOT obscure local variations in coverage.
Surely DHB data should pin point areas where any single nationwide vaccination % is not being met and those areas could be concentrated on.

As Ardern has already said of lower vaccination percentages “Even if you say ‘we want 80 percent’, if you have only 60 percent in one part of the country, people will die in that part of the country”, why is that not made official and DHB data used to explain to those areas that they are at risk of people dying, particularly the elderly with underlying conditions – kaumātua with their taogna of knowledge of tribal history and traditions, and TOA – Treasured Older Adults, the accolade given to Pacifika older persons, carriers of wisdom and treasures of yesteryears.
Specifically offer them – through their own agencies where possible – the choice they have of vaccination. That still accords with the Ardern charisma of “empathy” even if it has an element of “tough love”.

But I suspect Ardern is actually target-shy because of the so many failures to deliver in other policy areas.
And to someone anxiety prone (as Jacinda has herself admitted to in NEXT interviews and other media) the attainment of a specified vaccination level will then require “opening” the country – as Australia intends, in whatever that is – but a step that will obviously expose New Zealanders to covid more generally, and likely hundreds of unvaccinated “people will die” or be seriously ill intuitively not an Election winner.

But under the Treaty (the supposed principles of partnership, participation and protection – but more specifically Article 2: preservation of taonga, and Article 3: equal rights and protection), the Government is obligated to ensure everyone in the country is equally offered the choice of vaccination and the information to properly make that choice.

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/coronavirus-lengthy-lockdown-quite-concerning-virus-shape-shifting-and-might-be-here-to-stay-immunologist.html

Disclaimer – while I am fully vaccinated (as far as one may be in New Zealand) I trust the above comment is neutral, as I believe everyone should make a fully informed personal choice (as much as that can be done) for themselves.

The above comment is to suggest Ardern has more responsibility than telling us the above quoted crap reason for no target vaccination percentage rather than impartially answering a vital question about the nation’s future
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September 15, 2021 8:43am
Tony Stuart

Chris Bishop sent out a presser last night via the National Party website and social media channels. It was written as an op-ed, and sent to both Stuff and NZ Herald, both of whom declined to publish it. As Bishop notes:

Here is an opinion piece which I pitched to Stuff and the NZ Herald. Neither decided it was worth publishing. At a time when the PM commands the airwaves on a daily basis at 1pm, it’s important for the National Opposition voice to be heard and for constructive criticism of the government.

Here’s how it begins:

Our Longest Lockdown: How did we get here?

Lockdowns are incredibly expensive: it has been estimated a countrywide Level 4 lockdown costs the economy around $1.5 billion per week. That’s before you count the social cost: kids not at school, families split apart, the mental health impacts of being cooped up at home for days on end. I think almost everyone thinks we should be doing all we can to avoid them.

Sadly, it’s become clear in the government’s response to the recent delta outbreak that while Kiwis have done all they’ve been asked to do – the government hasn’t been playing its part. The “team of five million” has been let down.

Two things have become clear. First, we had no alternative but to lockdown because of our woefully low vaccination rates. Second, despite claims to the contrary, the government had done very little planning at all around how to respond to a further outbreak, particularly of delta, since the first COVID lockdown last year.

It gives me no pleasure as the Opposition spokesperson for COVID-19 to say that New Zealand’s vaccination rates, by world standards, are hopeless. For most of this year we had the world’s slowest vaccine roll-out. Chris Hipkins said at the end of 2020 we would be “at the front of the queue” but the reality is we are at the back of the pack. This is not the “year of the vaccine” we were promised by the Prime Minister.

https://www.national.org.nz/our-longest-lockdown-how-did-we-get-here

Bishop’s whole piece is worth a read, but it’s also worth sharing if you’re a social media user. Stuff and the Herald may have decided that what the Opposition’s spokesman on Covid issues is saying is of little merit, but Bishop’s point about the Government having unfettered access via the media is a very good one.

As he closes, Bishop makes this point:

The government borrowed $62 billion last year on the COVID Response Fund. Did they spend this on contact tracing, testing capacity, and extra ICU capacity? That would have been sensible. Instead it was used as a slush fund. Instead the fund was spent on art therapy clinics, cameras on fishing boats, horse racing, public interest journalism, and school lunches. Yes, I’m serious.

‘Nuff said!
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September 15, 2021 8:47am
- Cinematic
  
  It is beyond disgraceful that neither of the two major news portals would run this piece.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:04am
  - Nickc2
    
    Sez more about their pay-master (the Govt) IMO.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:36am
  - Paulus
    
    No Money No Tickee !
    
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    September 15, 2021 1:44pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Tony – what do you expect in New Zimbabwe? Objectivity? Equal access? Critical Thought?
  
  The feckless are only interested in stories that paint the opposition in a poor light.
  
  That said this should be a light bulb moment for Chris to stop playing leadership games, get behind Judith and call the media out. The media are not the opposition’s friend at all.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:06am
  - Nickc2
    
    Very true Frank.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:38am
    - Jack5
      
      Are we talking about the Chris who lost his electorate seat?
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:51am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        What an ignorant comment.
        In 2017 he won a seat that had been held by Labour for yonks, after scaring the bully Mallard into going on the list.
        He barely lost it in 2020 as even he was unable to stem the tide of Jacindamania that swept the country.
        
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        September 15, 2021 12:20pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        He barely lost it in 2020 […].
        
        Not quite. Yes, Bishop won Hutt South in 2017, by 1,530 votes, but Ginny Andersen’s majority in 2020 was 3,777 — a 5,307 vote turnaround!
        
        In other words, he not only failed “to stem the tide of Jacindamania”, he was thrashed.
        
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        September 15, 2021 2:53pm
  - tf78
    
    It would be nice if people started sending National Party members some emails of support. It’s grim times for them right now with no voice available and derision everyway they look. Give them your support if you feel so inclined.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:07am
- kowtow
  
  When the Nats get back in power , given the horrendous state of our public finances they’d be justified in cutting out ALL funding to wasted efforts such as NZ on Air , all media subsidies etc ..
  
  Question is will they ?
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:25am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Haha. Two words.
    
    Wayne Mapp.
    
    “You are right. There were (and are) a substantial number of National MP’s who would have similar views to myself.”
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:29am
I remember when

All of those testing stations, all with the ability to do more tests.
Should they be branching out into other medical areas where more tests are needed.
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September 15, 2021 8:49am
Clyde

Most people think that regimes that burn the books are not regimes we would want to emulate, but how about societies that have been so conditioned that they allow effectively the same thing to happen? I refer to the excellent book by John Robinson called “He Puapua, Blueprint for breaking up New Zealand”. My understanding is that several nationwide bookshops have “decided not to stock it” and I have never seen it on display elsewhere. Why? Because its contents criticise the Government. 1984 – it is here right now.
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September 15, 2021 9:07am
- tf78
  
  Try Tross Publishing – (they may have run out haha!) That’s where I got mine from.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:09am
- SoloView
  
  Clyde re “He Puapua, Blueprint for breaking up New Zealand” availability
  It can be purchased at https://aotearoabooks.co.nz/he-puapua-blueprint-for-breaking-up-new-zealand/
  Appropriately named bookshop…….
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:29am
John Pakes

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Janet Wilson served as Judith Collin’s Press Secretary during the last election campaign. She also worked for John Key during his term of office. She is a person who firmly believes in the principles of the National Party.
In a recent interview she admits that she now despairs for the National Party, saying that is is on the brink of a precipice.
She blames Judith Collins, and her views are being echoed by others such as Mathew Hooton in “Metro” and Chris Finlayson in “Stuff”.
An example of her leadership, we can look at her recent address to the National Samoan Group where instead of concentrating on what many see as the failure of the Labour Government, Covid Roll out, Housing crisis etc, all she could muster was a cheap shot at Siouxsie Wiles. A cheap shot that most of the public would see as an example of vindictiveness and paranoia.
Janet Wilson is right. The National Party needs to make a change in its leadership, and quickly, or continue to hand the mantle of leadership of the opposition to David Seymour, on a plate.
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September 15, 2021 9:08am
- Cinematic
  
  Maybe but now’s not the time.
  
  It will simply divert the country from a growing focus on how utterly shit this government is.
  
  Which is presumably what you want John. Bless.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:21am
  - John Pakes
    
    Presumably what I want? Once upon a time, and not so long ago, I voted National. Please tell me what the party is doing now to make me change my mind again.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:54am
    - Observer of Life
      
      J Pakes: The better question is, what makes this Labour government so impressive that you would continue to support them and consider voting for them again.
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:14am
      - John Pakes
        
        I enjoy making choices at election time. I like options. At the moment there is no option but the present government.
        
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        September 15, 2021 4:07pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Rubbish, if it wasn’t for the sycophantic media coverage which prevents your standard sheep from knowing how shite this government was, they’d be toast.
        
        If you are so enamoured of this lot, who amongst them would even get a 4 out of 10 for competence in governing responsibly ? Sure, St Cindy gets a 10 for her ability to fake sincerity, but who else would get any rating above 50% except for arrogance ?
        
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        September 15, 2021 6:11pm
    - Jack5
      
      Wilson, another Woke Leftie.
      
      Finlayson: sweetheart Treaty settlements for Ngai Tahu.
      
      Hooton: wasn’t he a cheerleader of he infamous Todd Muller coup?
      
      They want Labour Lite.
      
      John Pakes, there’s always ACT for your party vote.
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:46am
    - Frank the tank
      
      “Once upon a time, and not so long ago, I voted National”
      
      I call bullshit on that one.
      
      15 4
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      September 15, 2021 10:47am
      - John Pakes
        
        Frank, I did in the past vote National. It is not bullshit. I do not lie. Please apologise.
        
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        September 15, 2021 4:11pm
    - Inandout
      
      John, once upon a time Jacinda was a young socialist. Now she is an older socialist.
      
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      September 15, 2021 11:03am
      - Paulus
        
        And far more dangerous now that she has absolute power.
        
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        September 15, 2021 1:46pm
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Dead right Cinematic. If there was to be a change in leadership, early to mid next year would be the right time.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:48am
- James Stephenson
  
  I’m an ACT voter and even I can see that if you’re on the side of Hooton and Finlayson then you’re lying if you say you “believe in principles of the National Party”.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:25am
  - John Pakes
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    You cannot read.
    I said that Janet Wilson believes in the principles of the National Party. So where is my lie?
    
    4 34
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    September 15, 2021 9:51am
    - James Stephenson
      
      You cannot read, or at least your ability to comprehend what you’re reading is absent.
      
      I’m clearly saying that Janet Wilson is lying if she claims to believe in the principles of the NP.
      
      17 3
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      September 15, 2021 10:45am
      - Nickc2
        
        Is Janet Wilson just having a vindictive bitch because Judith Collins doesn’t want her as an adviser? Surely, this is captain’s call stuff.
        I certainly wouldn’t want someone like Winson as an advisor if she is given to smashing the troughs she feeds from.
        BTW, why wasn’t she signed to a non-disclosure agreement?
        
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        September 15, 2021 2:32pm
    - Jack5
      
      You’ll be off to the Standard then soon, John P.?
      
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      September 15, 2021 10:50am
      - John Pakes
        
        Not writing to it, just reading it. Does that mean that I am already there?
        I like differing points of view.
        
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        September 15, 2021 4:14pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Janet Wilson is a disgruntled ex-employee who Judith inherited and got rid of as soon as she could.
      
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      September 15, 2021 11:03am
      - artemisia
        
        Quite possible Judith Collins will be the next Prime Minister. Hard for politicians, or any employer really, to see Janet Wilson as trustworthy now.
        
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        September 15, 2021 1:26pm
      - James Stephenson
        
        Kind of strange to accuse Judith of being paranoid, when there clearly is a (dripping wet) faction of the National Party who are doing everything they can to undermine her.
        
        If I was a grassroots member of the Party I’d be f-ing livid, as a supporter of their natural coalition partner I’m not a whole lot happier with them tbh (and yes, JC would definitely get my “preferred PM” if I was polled today).
        
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        September 15, 2021 4:37pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  But why are you worried about the Nat Party leadership?
  
  Our Dear PM is in charge of the country.
  You are in safe hands, John.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:56am
  - Jack5
    
    The bought or owned media step up speculation about differences within National whenever the pressure goes on Ardern.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:08am
  - John Pakes
    
    Read Observer of Life above
    
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    September 15, 2021 4:15pm
- Prince
  
  Wilson was hired by Muller, that spectacularly unsuccesful coup leader.
  Tells me all I need to know about her commitment to National, along with her running to The Spinoff with this story.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:13am
  - tf78
    
    Prince, isn’t Janet married to Bill Rallston?! He’s not exactly a righty.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:12am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yes, and probably moves in the same circles as Matthew Hooton, who convinced Mallard he had what it takes to roll Bridges.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:47am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      Mallard? Do you mean Muller?
      
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      September 15, 2021 12:23pm
      - Loddenthinks
        
        Yes I’m sure he did – that was something of an unintentional canard. Boom Boom!
        
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        September 16, 2021 12:08pm
- Frank the tank
  
  So Stuffed don’t believe National’s Wuflu plan and criticism is newsworthy however a winge from a disgruntled contractor is.
  
  Fuck New Zimbabwe’s media.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:52am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Collins has rejected most of what Wilson says. As for the Souixsie Wiles bit, Wilson and the Spinoff couldn’t even get that right. They said Collins made a speech on Friday to Pasifika. There was no speech.
  
  She did a Facebook Live session on Thursday night with the Pacific Blues, a Pasifika organisation within the National Party, and made a passing reference to Wiles when asked about her by someone on the call. It wasn’t a calculated slur written into a speech as the Spinoff implies; it was an off-the-cuff remark, a bit off-colour, like John Key when, at a Tuhoe event, he made a joke about them eating him. It certainly didn’t merit the amount of space the Spinoff, a blog/news site that received $2.5 million in government funding this year, gave it.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:46am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    You do not work as a consultant for any organization and bad mouth them like Wilson has.
    
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    September 15, 2021 3:23pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Perhaps she’s making her Swan Song.
      
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      September 15, 2021 3:39pm
  - John Pakes
    
    And I believe Tony, that today she doubled down on the remark and reinforced it. Repeated off-colour remarks do not make a leader.
    She needs to go.
    
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    September 15, 2021 4:25pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      [Deleted – we’re trying to debate the issues without the physical appearance add-ons. Mod.]
      
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      September 15, 2021 6:14pm
I remember when

Willis and Rawnsley “the lowest of the low.”
The whole of New Zealand is of one view about this and believes they should receive maximum sentence.
So, remind me again, why aren’t we allowing home isolation for overseas travellers.
Surely it’s a ‘no-brainer’ seeing we are all of this one view.
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September 15, 2021 9:17am
- Chuck Bird
  
  Janet Wilson is the lowes of the low.
  
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  September 15, 2021 3:21pm
Yvette

“The war on misinformation about COVID and the vaccine is raging on” –

Auckland Councillor Efeso Collins has remarked – “What disinformation does is it fills the void of the people who have neglected and distrusted the system for a long time,” – Newshub

Does this “filling the void” not actually describe the demise of Capital Gains Tax, when Ardern initiated a ‘national conversation’ but presented no Government position to be discussed, allowing everyone else for weeks to fill a void that she never did occupy – the same void situation Ardern now surely creates with her offering no vaccination target or covid exit plan.

Ardern has painted herself into a corner. Does she really expect us to just sit, without anyone saying a word, while we wait for the paint to dry?

Perhaps see –
• How Jacinda Ardern is using soft propaganda to beat Covid-19 – Andrea Vance
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/120959519/coronavirus-how-jacinda-ardern-is-using-soft-propaganda-to-beat-covid19
• Covid-19 vaccine rollout is a secretive, sluggish spin-fest
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/124444115/covid19-vaccine-rollout-is-a-secretive-sluggish-spinfest
– again Andrea Vance (she’ll be off the PM’s Christmas card list
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September 15, 2021 9:18am
Cinematic

So to be clear.

I was compelled to comply with this administration’s elimination strategy.

Now my voluntary vaccination (or not) is critical to the success of this administration’s elimination strategy.

Is that irony?
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September 15, 2021 9:19am
surfing

Maori are trying to wipe out all english place names in the bay of plenty….

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/te-pati-maori-petitions-to-restore-te-reo-place-names-bay-of-plenty-would-become-te-moananui-a-toi/J3SO2YUKBMZMO7DABA6KNFSRHE/

They also claim non-maori support the change… not sure, they didn’t ask me.
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September 15, 2021 9:22am
- Yvette
  
  Surfing
  Māori Party co-leader Rawiri Waititi said on Tuesday that it was “well past time that Te Reo Māori was restored to its rightful place as the first and official language of this country”.
  “We are a Polynesian country, we are Aotearoa.
  “Tangata whenua are sick to death of our ancestral names being mangled, bastardised, and ignored. It’s the 21st Century, this must change.
  “Article 3 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi promises tangata whenua the same rights as British citizens, that te reo Māori me ōna tikanga katoa be treated and valued exactly the same as the English language – ko te mana ōrite tērā.” – Rawiri Waititi
  
  This is just more left-wing radical bull dust.
  Changing our country’s name and town and city names is just dumb extremism.
  We are not changing to some name with no historical credibility.
  We are for keeping us New Zealand – Winston Peters, again on Facebook
  
  Winston is not pro “Aotearoa Tuatahi”
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:34am
  - I remember when
    
    Yvette:
    Many aren’t that pleased with some of the efforts with English either.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:01am
  - Jack5
    
    Whoops! Wrong spot, and the delete key isn’t working. Sorry.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:34am
  - Ehlana
    
    I fail to see how the right the speak your own language equates to the right to dictate to other people how they should speak, read or write their own language. The pronunciation of a word taken into another language will inevitably change from the “original” over time. For two obvious reasons – one being that the muscle movements we learn to speak our own language are not the same as those other people learn to speak their own languages. So we are all likely to struggle to make unfamiliar sounds and to settle for what is close enough for understanding in our own tongues.
    The other is that languages change over time – how many modern English speakers can easily read Middle English today?
    
    The solution to problem of place names is actually very simple. Use the Maori place name and pronunciation (if one exists for the location) when speaking Maori and the English place name and pronunciation when speaking English.
    
    Or you can choose to take offence where none has been given, if you prefer.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:59am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      What’s Maori now with so much interbreeding? The Maori population is now probably over 70% Pakeha genes. If so, that would reduce their ethnicity proportion to less the 5% of the total population of NZ.
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:24pm
    - Yvette
      
      Ehlana
      Danny Watson, yesterday Magic Talk, talking about various languages, said he’d been recommended, while he was in France and didn’t speak French, to try remaining with English but endeavour speaking it with an imitation French accent. He claims he found it works very well – better than a straight English pronunciation.
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:31pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Let it go to a referendum.
  
  I was in a meeting yesterday (I person to person one in a cafe) – I introduced myself to the guy I had not met. He said “How long have you been living in Ōtautahi?” And he was not Maori. The rest of the meeting was Maori words being dropped constantly.
  
  Now if the guy had said to me “I am going to greet you in Maori because it is important to me. I will then translate for you. And when I farewell you I will do the same thing.” From me it would be TOTAL RESPECT.
  
  It is the dropping of Maori words into English that nobody understands that still annoys me. Because it detracts from the efficiency of the dialogue. And in a business setting that matters. It is not like we are on a date over a couple of wines 🙁
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:38am
  - Taieri
    
    I was in a meeting yesterday (I person to person one in a cafe) – I introduced myself to the guy I had not met. He said “How long have you been living in Ōtautahi?”
    ———————–
    
    Quite a few of “Maori” names, at least in the bottom part of the South Island are artificial and were invented as the names of post offices, railway stations and so on, built to service the expanding European settlement of NZ. This was a part of a deliberate countrywide policy, which came into being in the 1890’s and persisted until 1920’s. The intention was to enable the avoidance of duplication of various place names and to help to create an unique “national identity”. The process was initiated by Joseph Ward, then the Post Master General and MP for Awarua and his Designation of Districts Bill in 1894.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:29am
    - MCos
      
      While not disagreeing with you that not all Maori place names have longstanding roots I would suggest that pakeha names most certainly don’t have any attachment to the area beyond a couple of hundred years at the most.
      The name New Zealand itself was bestowed on this land, not by Abel Tasman, but by some anonymous cartographer back in Holland.
      
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      September 15, 2021 7:29pm
      - Cobolt24
        
        Aotearoa was selected and popularised as a romantic Maori name for our islands by Pakeha writers such as William Pember Reeves and Stephenson Percy Smith
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/blogs/opinion/205670/i-Aotearoa-a-European-hoax-i
        
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        September 15, 2021 8:23pm
      - Cobolt24
        
        Here’s one example:
        Christchurch or supposedly Otautahi was largely reclaimed swamp land made by early settlers, the only reason the name Otautahi came was because of a name in the banks peninsula, which has little relation to a city which did not exist, and I’m fairly sure the area wasn’t settled by Maori long term before it became a city.
        There’s many examples of this
        
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        September 15, 2021 8:33pm
  - Inandout
    
    BY, don’t tell me..he is quite well to do and lives in a wealthy suburb? Dutch people used to ask me if it is OK to speak their language in my company. That was important to me as I was given the courtesy and sometimes what they had to convey to the other Dutch person was not translatable. A little different to your chap who uses Maori as a sideline and would undoubtedly open most government department doors.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:13am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “BY, don’t tell me..he is quite well to do and lives in a wealthy suburb?”
      
      Yes lots of government agencies as clients.
      
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      September 15, 2021 12:58pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    You realise that you could have called him out for a racist micro-aggession, in that assuming a person of Asian heritage is not ‘from here’ is deeply offensive.
    If you called him out for that, you might have wiped all his accumulated virtue-points, and left him crestfallen as a white saviour pin-up.
    
    Alternatively, with perfect kiwi accent, “I dunno mate, where the fuck is that?” would be another acceptable come back.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:40am
    - Hollyfield
      
      Regarding racist micro-aggression, I am frequently asked what country I’m from and how long I’ve been in NZ.
      
      I always say “I’m from right here”.
      
      I am a 6th generation New Zealander, my ancestors came to New Zealand in 1843 and are exclusively from England and Scotland.
      
      I think the reason I get asked this is because so many people have moved to NZ from other countries, and in some circles it’s abnormal to be from NZ. I’m certainly a minority at my workplace and in my clubs/social groups.
      
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      September 15, 2021 2:29pm
      - MCos
        
        Certainly never happened to me, but fifty years whilst in Ireland the oldish woman who owned a b & b asked if we were American. No, I said we’re New Zealanders. Oh, you’re all Americans to us, she said.
        How do you argue with that attitude?
        We’d just come from New York and some people there were barely more worldly, nor did they care.
        
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        September 15, 2021 7:38pm
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Hah hah Benedict! Question is, what did you say to him? A few years back, similar thing happened to me, I told the “not Maori” he was a virtue signalling twat, and that I would deal with his boss.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:30pm
  - Frank the tank
    
    It’s called Pidgin English Ben. It’s the dialogue of Wokeborg.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:36pm
- I remember when
  
  We obviously haven’t got anything right in the last 180+ years.
  Time to go back to square one and start again.
  The era of the “Enlightened.”
  A Reformation – just without the church.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:59am
- JerJer
  
  Rawiri Waititi is a nob. Rawiri is probably not even his real name, it’s probably Dennis or John or something.
  
  If you look at their web site and their silly petition you will see they they are getting maybe 3 or 4 signatures a minute. Lets say it’s for 10 ours a day at that rate, so you are looking at 2400 people signing this trash.
  
  That’s less popular than the save the Crusaders name, and the banning cats in Wellington petitions. NB, the Crusaders one was actually the most important of these three in my opinion. My bet, less than 30,000 people sign this. After the activists have finished signing there will be no more losers left to sign it.
  
  Rawiri/Dennis says that there is a “movement for change”. He has no clue, 30000/5 million = 0.6% does not equal movement for change. Sorry mate, think up something useful to do for your remaining 2 years of getting paid to speak utter crap before you are kicked out and slink back to being the nobody you are, from who knows where.
  
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  September 15, 2021 2:38pm
rhygar

Mods feel free to delete if not appropriate. I have been so frustrated with the government I had to vent so started a youtube channel. Feel free to check it out if you like. All comments are welcome.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC41PtvmLfoKqwWnOrKXAD8w
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September 15, 2021 9:24am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I had a quick look
  
  I think your video clips are too long … (I’m usually not going to spend more than a few minutes on something that I’ve got the gist of).
  
  I’d recommend that you write a quick summary of the key points you intend highlighting…and read that clearly at the start (without the umms, and long pauses)
  
  I’ll probably look in again at your site.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:11am
- Inandout
  
  rhy, as Maggie explained, keep it short and to the point. As a YouTube addict I watch many auto shows, and the likes of TwinCam and the Car Wizard are enjoyable because they have visual impact. Keep up the good work though.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:23am
UrbanNeocolonialist

First report of as yet unpublished observational study with spectacular success in early treatment of Covid with multi-drug therapy: 4000 treated with no deaths and only 2 hospitalisations. vs 120 dead and 600 hospitalisation in equivalent cohort without treatment in same country at same time
https://twitter.com/Covid19Crusher/status/1437720789449646085

Using combinations of Aspirin, VitD Vit C, Zinc, Hydroxychloroquine, Ivermectin, Budesonide, Dexamethasone, Prednisone, Colchicine, as deemed appropriate by physicians.

Great result if true
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September 15, 2021 9:31am
- emmess
  
  It would be great if it wasn’t for the disgusting politicisation of medicine
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:46am
- Spoff
  
  Two highly credentialed doctors discuss treatment:
  https://youtu.be/xWBC-JX6lsg
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:03am
Muttonbird

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
Anyone else think the only thing saving Judith Collins is Level 4 in Auckland…
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September 15, 2021 9:32am
- Tony Stuart
  
  No MB; you can have that thought all to yourself.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:40am
  - Yabster
    
    vote national- so they reduced the bloated ‘uncivil service” the likes sof Mutton chops would have to find a real job….
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:03am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      I don’t fancy his chances.
      
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      September 15, 2021 11:07am
  - alloytoo
    
    I don’t think it’s so much a thought from MB as a broken telephone message from the Ministry of Propaganda.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:13am
  - barnacle bill
    
    While others like you bury their heads in sand.
    
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    September 15, 2021 1:55pm
- Frank the tank
  
  I’d be more worried about your dear leader if there are still cases/evidence of community transmission come Monday Morning.
  
  What happens to a 1-trick pony when it can’t perform its trick?
  
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  September 15, 2021 12:38pm
Jibber NO Jabber

Where can I get a “Tax the low IQ Elite” Tee-shirt?

https://twitter.com/RodgerT9/status/1437893156398198791

We could end world poverty overnight…
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September 15, 2021 9:38am
Inandout

The real effect of lockdowns and spin are high truancy rates.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/covid-19-delta-outbreak-richard-prebble-virus-greatest-threat-is-life-time-poverty/E46T337VGI44QPZK3ZBU76S7GQ/

Keep the young dumb and they may vote Labour.
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September 15, 2021 9:40am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  “Keep the young dumb and they WILL vote Labour.”
  There, fixed it for you.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:10am
- oldfella
  
  And… surprise, surprise… behind a paywall. If it had been a positive spin – something making Cindy look good – it would have been free to read. Yes?
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:51am
I remember when

Jack Tame: Q&A: 5 September, 2021.
“Maori vaccinations total only 9.1% of all first jabs and 8.9% of all second jabs to date.
Sounds awful doesn’t it.
Maori population and covid facts (figures are from Stats NZ but not guaranteed):
* Maori only need to reach 16.7% to be the same as the General population.
* Their 0-14 age group makes up 31.2% of the Maori population.
* A further 37.2% of Maori are in the 15-39 age group.
* The 12-15 and 16-40 age groups are the last groups to qualify for vaccination. So 68.4% of their population either don’t qualify or have been in the last group to do so.
* Medium age for Maori males is 25.1 years and 27.1 years for females.
In the General population it is 36.4 years for males and 38.5 years for females.
* Only 6.5% of Maori are in the 65+ age category.
For the General population it is 14.9%.
So how true is the perceived ‘covid risk’ to the Maori population.
As shown by the DHB their vaccinations for the 65+ and 50-64 age groups are reasonably close to the Non-Maori/PI totals.
Can we conclude that it is enough to go with ‘what everyone knows’, so no further research is needed.
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September 15, 2021 9:45am
dcrane

Can’t help but wonder if we’re in for regular “escapes” from MIQ now that the system is full of highly contagious Delta patients.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300407302/coivd19-miq-worker-at-soauckland-tests-positive-for-covid19
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September 15, 2021 9:46am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  I think by this time next year, our MSM won’t be reporting positive cases amongst the double-vaxxed, as there will be so many of them.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:52am
- krazykiwi
  
  Viruses have been ignoring government policy for a billion years.
  
  They’re really quite accomplished at it.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:56am
70andstilllearning

Jacinda hasn’t wanted to “put a number” on the vaccination level ( %) required before the country can ease restrictions. Looks like she’s sent little Andy off to Mike H to announce the expectation instead.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/andrew-little-health-minister-would-like-to-see-90-percent-vaccination-rate-before-restrictions-can-ease/
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September 15, 2021 9:48am
- emmess
  
  First it was about 70%
  Then 70% to 80%
  Now 90%
  If we get close to 90%, it will become 95%
  Then 98% and so on
  It will never end
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:52am
  - dcrane
    
    If they ever achieve 90% it will be time to start again at 0% with the next booster….and then the one after that…rinse and repeat.
    
    That is, until this overdeployment results in the virus evolving full resistance to the whole method, as with antibiotic overuse.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:59am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      If we are talking about 80 percent of the “eligible population” they will never get there. That is because the “eligible population” is 12 years+. It seems that many parents are refusing consent for their kids to get vaccinated. I can’t understand that, but it is what it is.
      
      By December it is likely that the “eligible population” will be 5 years +.
      
      They might get 85 percent of 18 years plus vaccinated but 86 percent of 5 years + forget it.
      
      The other thing is that Maori have a relatively young demographic. Good luck with getting 80 percent of Maori to vaccinate their 12 year olds let along 5 year olds. That will mean that the proportion of the eligible Maori population that ends up being vaccinated could be less than half.
      
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      September 15, 2021 11:32am
      - dcrane
        
        In the US, more children die annually from the flu than have died so far in 18 months of the pandemic.
        
        During the 2018-2019 flu season, 477 died of flu under age 17.
        
        In the 18 months of the pandemic, some 370 have died from covid.
        
        We have never mandated flu vaccines for children, and those vaccines are much better tested than the covid ones.
        
        https://www.statista.com/statistics/1127698/influenza-us-deaths-by-age-group/
        
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        September 15, 2021 12:06pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Benedict, you may have better/more recent info on this, but my understanding is that the covid IFR for teens is utterly miniscule, and that includes those with co-morbitities. Only 2 in a million children died in UK during first year of pandemic, only 1% of typically 200 per million children who die yearly. Take vulnerable kids out of the equation and their covid risk is almost zero.
        
        Balance that against some known as well as unknown long term risks from these novel vaccines and it is not at all clear that vaccination is ethical, Primum non nocere (first do no harm). And that thinking is reflected in the determination that many countries made not to vaccinate non-vulnerable children and teens, though many countries are now changing to giving a single shot.
        
        For example it would be devastating to discover in 5 years time that vaccination led to even a small uptick in infertility or ovarian cancer in young women (there is clear evidence that fragments accumulate in ovaries and other organs and mess up menstrual cycles in short term) when the death risk averted is almost zero.
        
        The (often badly applied) precautionary principle should be given extra weight when the benefit is tiny but potential risks significant.
        
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        September 15, 2021 1:54pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Just maybe they have reached the same conclusion as the British medical authorities who, at this stage, have decided that the risk benefit ratio for younger people makes vaccination not ethical for them.
        
        In the UK, the IFR for the young (I think under 16 but might be under 12) is minuscule, and if corrected for those unfortunate people with existing conditions like leukaemia, is almost undetectable. The figures for deaths from the vaccine aren’t well recorded, but do appear to be significantly higher.
        
        If my children were that young, I would certainly not be getting them vaccinated with the current Covid vaccines. And my children did have all the standard vaccinations when they were young, without any issues.
        
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        September 15, 2021 6:25pm
- septic skeptic
  
  That is pie in the sky like zero road deaths, a billion trees a d 100,000 houses. Short of physically restraining people and vaccinating by force they won’t get 90%. So it sounds like the elimination strategy and rolling lockdowns are here to stay under Labour.
  Mind you, he probably knows how a relatively small wave of infection could overwhelm our ICU capacity – or lack thereof.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:59am
- Sofia
  
  70andstilllearning
  Andrew Little: Health Minister would like to see 90 percent vaccination rate
  The Health Minister has bold ambitions for New Zealand’s vaccination rate. …
  But Andrew Little to Mike Hosking he’d like to see the vaccination rate hit the high 90s, so a raft of restrictions can be removed. [their grammar, not mine]
  “Not just us moving around inside the country, but people coming into the country. We can change the rules around managed isolation, we can let more people in, all those sorts of things.”
  – https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/andrew-little-health-minister-would-like-to-see-90-percent-vaccination-rate-before-restrictions-can-ease/
  
  A simple question which I hope at least one journalist will have the guts to ask –
  Does PM Jacinda Ardern agree with the statement of Andrew Little, who she appointed her Minister of Health?
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:02am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Not up on MOH web site yet who’s doing today’s 1 p.m. presser but if it’s Jacinda there may be some intrepid journalist present who has snuck into the room.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:21am
- Cinematic
  
  Heh 90%. Crikey they can’t help but set themselves up to fail.
  
  I guess when there are no consequences for continued failures they can just keep on failing.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:12am
  - oldfella
    
    Cinematic, but just think. When we don’t reach 90%, Cindy can say she just has to continue with lockdowns because some of the team of 5 million have let down the others in the team. So it’s all our fault, nothing to do with her.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:58am
    - Paulus
      
      We will be lucky to get 75% by March next year with more lockdowns by Christmas (and possibly including).
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:53pm
  - dcrane
    
    What they’re setting themselves up to do, is to blame us for their not reopening the country.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:08pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Question for Andrew. What is your plan for when the vaccines stop working after 12 months?
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:31am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Benedict – I don’t think that’s a question he, you, I or anybody can really answer at the moment. I get the feeling from many of your comments recently, that like me and probably many others, you are perhaps a bit frustrated that the novel mRNA vaxs haven’t turned out to be the panacea that many hoped ( rather than expected) they might have been. Not surprising as in one of my early careers I’ve seen a few lab scale technologies move through to pilot scale OK then flop massively when rushed to full scale production prematurely.
    I see a number of Virologists are now suggesting that SARv2 will most likely run the normal life cycle of a virus that jumps to humans which means some years before it mutates to a somewhat stable? variant.
    This isn’t a criticism, as I generally enjoy your well considered comments but I think it’s the wrong question. The real question is how do we plan to live reasonably normally until the virus runs its course or a traditional type vax that works better is developed ( bearing in mind my earlier premature point). My view on that is quite simple. We won’t because this has been made into a political issue so the fundamental plan is based predominantly around maintaining political control.
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:53am
Rusty

So there is a planned protest march over lockdowns scheduled for this Saturday in Sydney.

Be interested to see what happens.

Will the police start using tear gas and charging horses to arrest people and will and our weak minded media only highlight the trouble makers?

I wonder will their come a day in Auckland and the rest of NZ where people go on the streets to “peaceably” protest over these unfair and cruel lock downs?
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September 15, 2021 9:49am
- krazykiwi
  
  Protest marches are easy, central targets to police. They are also convenient events for the police to plant agitators to cause trouble, thereby brining the peaceful 99.9% into disrepute.
  
  Where enforcement totally breaks down is having hundreds of thousands of people simply resuming their normal lives in and around where they live. This process is well underway in Sydney, and to a lesser extent Melbourne.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:00am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    Yes. There’s no need to fight or struggle with the Police. All that’s needed is mass civil disobedience. Force the entire system to “process” thousands of people who quietly wait to be arrested.
    
    Police forced to arrest people 24/7 as they grow tired and exhausted. Jails full to overflowing. Courtrooms overflowing, and so forth. Bury the system.
    
    Luckily for our authorities Kiwis are too apathetic to do this and everyday encounters with them reveal that most are loving this.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:02pm
    - kowtow
      
      The extremely high proportion of mask wearers I see in a L2 NZ city centre tells me they’re not apathetic , they’re enthusiastic self oppressors. Outdoors where it’s not mandated. Hopeless.
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:26pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        I’ve seen people wearing masks: –
        – walking alone around Miramar Peninsular on windy day
        – riding a bike up a steep hill
        – alone in cars with windows up
        – alone in cars with windows down
        – walking alone on suburban streets
        – rock-climbing (seriously!)
        – playing frisbee in a park
        
        These people have been deliberately terrorised by the state. It is psychological abuse.
        
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        September 15, 2021 3:49pm
Fletch

Ashley Bloomfield was asked about Ivermectin, and his response –

Bloomfield said that although there is evidence some other medications can reduce Covid-19 symptoms, Ivermectin was not one of them.

“One thing I can categorically say about Covid treatment now, is that Ivermectin is not a safe treatment for Covid-19.

“I’d certainly encourage people strongly not to take Ivermectin; either as a preventative or for treatment of any symptoms that could be Covid related.”

https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/new-zealand/bloomfield-slams-use-ivermectin-covid-19-cure

This actually shocked me. There is ample evidence that ivermectin is making a HUGE difference around the world. It is being used in places like India, being given out by the govt, and has been written up numerous times in journals like The American Journal of Therapeutics in regards to its effectiveness against the virus.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8088823/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/

Surely, as a medical practitioner, he must be aware of these studies, and the good it is doing around the world.
Up until now, I was pretending to myself that at least this govt was trying to do the best it could for our country as regards the virus. But ignoring highly effective therapeutics like ivermectin make me question and wonder what is going on? There must be other interests involved.

He’s not that ignorant, surely? Maybe he is trying to avoid mixed messaging, and afraid that people will demand it and perhaps the govt doesn’t have any? Who knows..
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September 15, 2021 10:10am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I have been following the evidence and it just gets stronger. This is from one of the USA’s top medical journals that you cite:
  
  “Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.”
  ________
  
  I mean how could that be any more clear? The problem with this drug is that its patents expired years ago and there is no money to be made from it.
  
  Of course no journalist in New Zealand has the brains to do 30 minutes of research and use that to ask him hard questions.
  
  I am not a doctor but I understand data analysis and I think I can detect bullshit. The evidence around this drug is rock solid.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:42am
  - surfing
    
    Did you read it?
    
    I actually read one of the meta analysis papers. How many of you did the same?
    
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8248252/
    
    One trial had only 24 people! Many trials have fewer than 100 people, one trial lists ‘family contacts’ as the only participants. Very few trials even have over 200 people, the largest is 474.
    
    Some trials don’t even use placebos…. this is bad….Of the 23 trials only 12 used placebos.
    
    The only trial that looks solid (on paper at least), is the Columbia trial with 474 patients, randomised comparison with placebo…results….
    
    In this randomized clinical trial that included 476 patients, the duration of symptoms was not significantly different for patients who received a 5-day course of ivermectin compared with placebo
    
    Personally, I want better evidence.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:17pm
    - Fletch
      
      It’s not based on one trial though. The first paper was based on 18 trials and the second paper on 15 trials.
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:28pm
      - wreck1080
        
        You clearly did not read what I wrote.
        
        Of the 23 in the first meta analysis, many were too small, did not use placebos, and were not randomised. Only one trial out of the entire 23 even approached being reliable.
        
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        September 15, 2021 2:38pm
    - NoFax
      
      That’s why there is a meta-analysis. Scientists and doctors do this all the time. One study alone is never enough but a number of studies together builds a case.
      We can have a high level of certainty not on one trial but on a number of trials. They all point in the same direction, ivermectin is useful.
      
      We know ivermectin kills Covid as that has been shown in the vitro trial done at Monash University April 2020. We know ivermectin is safe as billions of people have taken it. What doctors, using their clinical expertise, have observed is that it helps.
      
      If you get Covid and don’t want to take ivermectin then that is your choice. I just want the same choice and I will take ivermectin.
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:57pm
      - Batman
        
        The Monash in-vitro trial used dosages 100x the dose for humans.
        
        So unless you’re chugging multiple pill bottles per day (please don’t), Ivermectin will have zero benefit outside of that petri-dish situation.
        
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        September 15, 2021 2:02pm
      - wreck1080
        
        You didn’t even read what I wrote.
        
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        September 15, 2021 2:39pm
    - Salacious Crumb
      
      Good on you for reading them Surfing but be careful of criticizing small series studies; they are often a go to in the absence of RCTs on large cohorts purely because of ethical reasons ie it may be highly disadvantageous to not provide a prospective therapy. More importantly why the fuck has our Director of Health not read any of these?
      
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      September 15, 2021 3:58pm
  - Salacious Crumb
    
    Benedict I have literally seen/heard NZ doctors dismiss therapies out hand which are seen as gold standard overseas and back by class 1 evidence. Some just won’t believe clinical evidence regardless.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:27pm
  - Fletch
    
    Plus, in the story posted by 1 News, both in my link and on Facebook, they used an image of the horse and cattle treatment “Ivomec”. If that isn’t deliberately misleading I don’t know what is.
    
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    September 15, 2021 12:58pm
    - Batman
      
      That’s because stupid people are taking the actual animal version. Making sandwiches and snacks with bitter apple flavoured paste.
      
      The most you can say about the human version and covid is that the jury is still out on it, as the studies to date have been either unreliable or outright fraudulent (in the case of the Egyptian and Brazilian ones).
      
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      September 15, 2021 1:56pm
      - NoFax
        
        Very few, if any, ever took the animal version. The Rolling Stone story was debunked.
        
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        September 15, 2021 2:06pm
      - Jibber NO Jabber
        
        Debunked in TDS Leftist means, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
        
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        September 15, 2021 3:24pm
  - kowtow
    
    That can’t be right , this Prof says so in an ODT hit piece on the only decent rep the city has.
    
    ‘Prof Ussher said the alternative treatments proposed were not supported by evidence.
    
    ‘‘There have been several trials that have investigated Ivermectin and they have failed to show a benefit.’’’
    
    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/%E2%80%98provocative%E2%80%99-covid-posts-%E2%80%98unhelpful%E2%80%99
    
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    September 15, 2021 1:15pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The global narrative is vaccinate, vaccinate, vaccinate. All and any treatment options appear to be routinely dismissed by authorities, no matter the evidence.
  
  I have found evidence supporting Ivermectin which I’ve later dismissed on the basis of poor research techniques. In one paper the research was crowd funded via a campaign called “Establishing the positive benefits of Ivermectin” or similar. Hard to feel confident about confirmation bias there!
  
  This said, the solid evidence in support of this treatment is growing daily.
  
  This paper, Meta-analysis of randomized trials of ivermectin to treat SARS-CoV-2 infection published by Oxfored University Press is the most comprehensive and authoritative study I’ve read on this topic.
  
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  September 15, 2021 2:49pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    There’s a thoughtful analysis from Dr John Campbell on youtube. He’s one of the reasonable covid commenters …. Makes a case for ivermectin based on results from Mexico, Peru and India. No fancy meta-analyses or small non-controlled trials. Not fully randomised trials, but large numbers.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NJSUKDng_Ww
    
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    December 15, 2020 6:03pm
  - Fletch
    
    Thanks for the link. Here’s a nice big summary .png someone sent me
    
    https://c19ivermectin.com/isummary.png
    
    And the associated link to studies
    
    https://ivmmeta.com/
    
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    September 15, 2021 5:44pm
- miltonF
  
  I think your answer lies in an article I read today in stuff. The government is planning to use the new antiviral drug being developed by Pfizer. pfizermectin as previous commenters have joked. Monoclonal antibodies and steroids are also being investigated.
  
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  September 15, 2021 5:22pm
thirteenstars

Comedian Norm Macdonald has died after a decade-long battle with cancer, which he kept private, so it comes as quite a shock to the legions of fans who adored him and his droll, acerbic and subversive style of comedy.

Here’s Norm from SNL, late-90s, dumping on Hillary Clinton:

https://youtu.be/SOsfrppKd1k?t=86

RIP.
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September 15, 2021 10:14am
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  I had no idea, and a real shame. So many other comedians I cant be bothered with.
  He had a dry mischievous sort of delivery.
  
  I enjoyed his ‘Hitler’s dog….’ standup, which is available on Netflix, and his content on Bill Cosby etc. etc.
  Quote recognisable when he was the voice actor for Death on Family Guy.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:56am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “When you die, the cancer dies with you. That’s not a loss, that’s a draw.”
    
    –Norm Macdonald
    
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    September 15, 2021 3:27pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVnbke8pTWw

Political Cataclysm in California.

It is election day in California and simultaneously in Washington, D.C., Secretary of State Antony Blinken is answering some tough questions in the Senate Foreign Affairs Committee hearing over the situation in Afghanistan. It’s time our leaders are held accountable for their actions. Today, people all across California head to the polls to determine if Governor Gavin Newsom will be removed as governor in a recall election. Over 1.6 million people signed a recall petition after his handling of COVID-19 and other policies. The fate of this election determines if Gov. Newsom remains the governor or if his actions will cause him to pack up. For California voters to be in a nationally watched recall election is a win in and of itself. [4:54]
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September 15, 2021 10:18am
- virtualmark
  
  There is a snowball’s chance that Newsom will be recalled.
  
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  September 15, 2021 3:16pm
  - curry4me
    
    virtualmark: Yeah, he’ll probably win, unfortunately.
    
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    September 15, 2021 6:15pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Actually I agree, the Democrats in CA are way too well organised with their vote harvesting to be under any real threat. The closer it gets, the more votes they harvest until they have the majority.
    
    Fairly simple process, and the local GOP can get as many votes as they like, the Democrats can always find more.
    
    Apparently though, California will benefit from Newsome winning, because otherwise the favourite to win would be an outright white supremacist, Elder.
    
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    September 15, 2021 7:06pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgQ5Gm7gjlE

George Soros Calls China “Dangerous Enemy”.

Billionaire investor George Soros is warning people about the dangers of investing in China—after he spent years investing in China. What’s changed about China that is making Soros call China a “dangerous enemy”? [10:20. Bad people can do good things. Often unintentionally.]
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September 15, 2021 10:18am
- Jack5
  
  George Soros is pretty bright, but Beijing cost him heavily when he tried to break the Hong Kong dollar peg to the US dollar. That was when Hong Kong was still a British colony.
  
  The Hong Kong Monetary Authority turned to Beijing for help and Beijing’s deep pockets bust the Soros squeeze.
  
  It was a contrast to when Soros made a billion betting against the British pound.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:13am
  - curry4me
    
    Jack5: I’m glad Beijing dealt to him then.
    
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    September 15, 2021 6:16pm
- virtualmark
  
  Hang on … is George Soros a good guy that we believe? Or a bad guy that’s pulling all the strings behind the scenes?
  
  It’s so hard to keep this all organised.
  
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  September 15, 2021 3:17pm
  - Jack5
    
    Conspiracy theorists paint a dark picture of Soros, but that doesn’t fit the fact that Soros is the principal champion and promoter of the ideas of Karl Popper, who brilliantly showed the benefits of a free and open society.
    
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    September 15, 2021 5:52pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      But he is funding and pushing a lot of very destructive stuff. Open borders do nothing but create massive welfare burdens, non-integrating vote-yourself-rich immigrant underclasses and are generally destructive to the working and middle classes economic aspirations. Only people who benefit are civil servants (growing state) and rich (cheap labour). Ie urban elites. The left are fundamentally destructive in their aspirations
      
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      September 15, 2021 7:12pm
ByGolly

Herald headline :
Covid-19 Delta outbreak: Coroner says death of teen not linked to vaccine.

Quote from Coroner :
This case is still active with a coroner and the causes and circumstances of this death have yet to be determined.

And they wonder why people are doubtful…
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September 15, 2021 10:20am
- Inandout
  
  BG, is this the teen who had heart problems, was a heavy smoker and his lungs were shot? Hosking made some mention.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:32am
  - Fletch
    
    No, the article refers to the 18 year old school girl.
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-coroner-says-death-of-teen-not-linked-to-vaccine/OEEJATMBMBPX2BGBA2XWEET37Y/
    
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    September 15, 2021 11:47am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Coroner woefully backlogged and currently (conveniently) taking years to issue reports on cases.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:45am
- Fletch
  
  Yeh, I’m not buying it. Someone close to the family posted on social media a few days later some details that would lead one to believe it was connected to the vaccine. AT least that’s the takeaway for me.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:46am
  - surfing
    
    Yes, it was definitely the vaccine.
    
    6 3
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    September 15, 2021 12:19pm
- dcrane
  
  An honest newspaper would have reported that we do not yet know for sure what caused the teen’s death, but that the vaccine remains a possibility.
  
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  September 15, 2021 12:12pm
Jibber NO Jabber

Can anyone explain the difference between dying of Covid cos’ you can’t get on a Ventilator and dying of Cancer because your surgery has been cancelled because of Covid?
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September 15, 2021 11:03am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I can 🙂
  
  In New Zealand, if you die of COVID you become famous. The PM will publicly mourn your death and offer her sympathies to your family on live TV. If you die of cancer you get nothing.
  
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  September 15, 2021 11:35am
  - kowtow
    
    or die of the vaccine.
    
    9 1
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    September 15, 2021 1:04pm
Jibber NO Jabber

They went full Guardian, never go full Guardian.?

https://twitter.com/RitaPanahi/status/1437918640691503104
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September 15, 2021 11:40am
Ehlana

I like this one from Twitter today:
“I am slowly learning all of the Maori names for towns and cities during the weather forecast but get annoyed when they don’t give the Maori names for Taupo, Tauranga, Whangarei and Kaitaia”
https://twitter.com/kominsens/status/1437651001188634629
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September 15, 2021 12:09pm
- surfing
  
  We need to start changing some towns to english names, because are their any english named towns in the Bay of Plenty area? Tauranga/Rotorua/ Te Puke/Waihi/ Katikati / Whakatana/ Ohope/ Pukehina.
  
  There are no english named towns that i can think of immediately .
  
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  September 15, 2021 12:21pm
  - Jack5
    
    With both English and Maori official languages, there’s no reason not to have two names for each town and geographical place: one for when using English, the other for when using Maori.
    
    So go for it, Surfing.
    
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    September 15, 2021 1:41pm
  - Ruawai
    
    Bowentown
    
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    September 15, 2021 2:14pm
    - wreck1080
      
      Edgecumbe too. Not easy finding examples though.
      
      Need some English names.
      
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      September 15, 2021 2:44pm
ecco

I see some sections of the media are calling for that couple to be prosecuted.
Did the police ever investigate Wile’s excuse with the beach incident? ie is her buddy living alone? Surely someone must know, and the police findings need to be made public.
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September 15, 2021 12:10pm
- Nickc2
  
  Don’t hold your breath wrt Wiles, it could be fatal. She’s the MSM’s darling. She’s everything they want her to be (… [deleted] different).
  
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  September 15, 2021 1:40pm
krazykiwi

Just heard about a young NZer stuck in USA. Thomas from Tiahape has been at Camp America. It is his first time out of New Zealand. He has been kicked out of the house of his Bubble ‘friend’, and has been sleeping the streets, with less than $100 left in his pocket (yesterday)

He has been denied a MIQ slot because he doesn’t meet the criteria for an emergency placement.

Mountain bikers, Wiggles, Wallabies, MP for Mexico, James Shaw, Guns’n’Roses … are all good, come on in.

But a young, desperate kiwi kid? Locked out.

Ardern, your government is disgusting.

I’m so angry about this.

It is sickening.
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September 15, 2021 12:30pm
- Muttonbird
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Massive risk heading overseas without a confirmed return MIQ spot.
  
  But, Thomas will be in good company because approximately 200,000 people sleep rough on any given night.
  
  Where is “Tiahape”?
  
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  September 15, 2021 1:14pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Tiahape is quite close to Keyboard Dyslexia. Google maps will help you.
    
    Telling a NZ kid that it’s fine to be homeless and sleeping on the streets of a foreign city while his government denies him access to his homeland is breathtakingly disgusting. I would tell you to be ashamed, but for smug little sycophants like you it’s all in a days work. Unless, of course, it was you or your son.
    
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    September 15, 2021 2:06pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Newflash! – “Be Kind’ party acolyte exposed as cold hearted cynical ideologue!
    
    And what have you done about the rough sleepers here, if you really care?
    
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    September 15, 2021 3:20pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Krazy: Agree re MIQ and this govt. But I’m intrigued why he has been kicked out of his bubble and sleeping on the streets when the US isn’t in lockdown. Poor kid though. Imagine how helpless the parents feel. How do these govt a-holes sleep at night?
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:32pm
mandk

Here’s a question:

If any death following a COVID infection is a COVID death, why isn’t a death that follows the ‘vaccination’ a vaccination death?
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September 15, 2021 1:13pm
- krazykiwi
  
  The Covidian Scriptures, Book 1, Verse 1: Covid bad. Vaccination good.
  
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  September 15, 2021 1:56pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  You would need to do a wide ranging statistical study to establish vaccine risk – eg age corrected excess deaths during months following vaccination to really get a clear picture. The specific evidence is equivocal – hard to make a clear case by case determination with something that is only fractionally increasing risks of clotting or heart issues above baseline. It’s like exposure to carcinogens, you can’t say that X definitely caused someones cancer, it only becomes clear when you analyse population statistics.
  
  That hasn’t been done with covid vaccinations yet, and medical establishment will not be in any rush to do so.
  
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  September 15, 2021 2:01pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Pity that the “Covid deaths” aren’t treated the same.
    
    The Atlantic (of all publications !) just published an article making the claim that at least 50% of those hospitalised with Covid are NOT hospitalised because of Covid, but have been hospitalised for some other specific reason and have been automatically tested and Covid “detected”. So Covid patients aren’t necessarily flooding hospitals at all as most of those so tested have mild or no symptoms.
    
    In other news, recent estimates suggest that over 80% of US citizens have antibodies to Covid either from vaccination or infection. So “herd immunity” should be quite close, except for the unfortunate fact that vaccine “immunity” seems to be a bit leaky.
    
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    September 15, 2021 7:14pm
kowtow

Another day another major hit piece on Collins from stuff and the spinoff.

When the Nats do get back in they sure better take the gloves off and save us taxpayers a fortune in wasted money going to the freak show that passes itself off as journalism.
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September 15, 2021 1:17pm
- Batman
  
  Failing to listen to Janet Wilson has been the political funeral of many a politician.
  
  Your approach merely enables the continuation of a Labour government well into the future.
  
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  September 15, 2021 1:54pm
  - Jack5
    
    ?Batty, Janet’s a scribbler, not an oracle.
    
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    September 15, 2021 1:58pm
    - Batman
      
      If she’s a scribbler, that probably makes you a crayon doodler ?
      
      5 19
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      September 15, 2021 2:01pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Wilson is a certified flake, but a flake with a grievance because her chosen “vessel” was useless.
        
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        September 15, 2021 7:15pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  It’s quite obvious that like the RINOs in the USA there is a significant element in the National Party here who are basically My-Way-Or-The-Highway types towards the rest of the supposedly Big Tent, especially voting fodder Conservatives. To wit:
  
  Your approach merely enables the continuation of a Labour government well into the future.
  
  The simple question is how bad Labour would have to become or how many elections National would have to continue to lose before this group might begin to understand that compromise is a two-way street, and that they might have to compromise as much or more than those they look down on from the Beehive offices?
  
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  September 15, 2021 3:31pm
WaveyDavey

Well, according to Little the govt vax target is 90%

A quick trip to the MoH web page for Covid shows vaccinations done and booked in the future sitting at 78%

I assume that the govt has a plan to bridge that 12% gap…
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September 15, 2021 1:34pm
- doggone7
  
  Can’t advertise. people grizzle about that. Especially can’t advertise to any particular groups under-represented in the stats as having being vaccinated.
  Oeople go totally spare about that.
  
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  September 15, 2021 3:06pm
Paulus

Happy Yom Kippur David – and to your friends and family.
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September 15, 2021 1:36pm
WaveyDavey

Labour on the UP
National DOWN
ACT STATIONARY
Winston First BACK

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-new-poll-reveals-initial-impact-of-outbreak-on-political-parties-fortunes/FHKS4QMZLI2EFLRKDQK3C7J6X4/
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September 15, 2021 1:41pm
- Jibber NO Jabber
  
  Yeah nah, Labour will have to lift another 20 points before Ardern will consider lifting Aucklands’ house arrest status.
  We’ve been naughty and need to be punished.
  
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  September 15, 2021 2:17pm
- DeepBlue
  
  Actually it is all the same within the margin of error… and just like last time a “leaked poll” that was probably the best of the bunch for Labour. The big story is that Labour didn’t get the bounce this time, as they did with the first Lockdown.
  
  Judith also isn’t making inroads – so once again it comes down to being Labour’s to lose and the decisions Jacinda makes in the next month to exit lockdown. She does seem to have the people fixated on 90% being the vax rate we need, and not opening up until then.
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:32pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    You don’t like this poll?
    
    Just wait ’til you see the Curia one…
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:17pm
Herodotus

Just heard Hipkins comment when questioned regarding an Aucklander who travelled to Whakatane, he would not comment as it was under investigation. Why then was the couple who visited Wanaka afforded comment ?? Then followed questions about this couple and the response was that they had no further info. Funny I thought that too was under police investigation. Some could incorrectly infer that there are varying rules for different sectors of the country, and some within our community and open to all and any scrutiny.
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September 15, 2021 1:56pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Why?
  
  The Two Minutes Hate™ of course
  
  “The political purpose of the Two Minutes Hate is to allow the citizens of Oceania to vent their existential anguish and personal hatreds towards politically expedient enemies”
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_Minutes_Hate
  
  Turns out 1984 was an instruction manual after all
  
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  September 15, 2021 3:00pm
Jibber NO Jabber

Barney the Dinosaur shagged a Dalek?
https://twitter.com/Centrefuter/status/1437731057525219328

Warning, once you see it you can’t unsee it…
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September 15, 2021 1:58pm
rangitoto

Biden’s new slogan.

“Make the Taliban Great Again.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuNPDjF2GAQ
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September 15, 2021 2:03pm
Jibber NO Jabber

I’m almost tempted to vote for Winstone,?

https://twitter.com/winstonpeters/status/1437911744471437313

If they knew their own history, they would know ‘Aotearoa’ was made up and promoted by colonialists in the late 1800s.

It’s no surprise one of them thinks wearing a tie is colonialist – but apparently wearing a cowboy hat is not.

Even if only to sit back and watch the entire place burn…
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September 15, 2021 2:13pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Bless him, the rogue can say what we are thinking.
  That is his charm.
  
  A shame he shackled us to Jacinda though, I would say that is a pretty large CON in every sense.
  
  The very least he can do is entertain us with a few zingers about the knuckle-draggers in Te Pati Maori.
  
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  September 15, 2021 3:24pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The Left win the election in Norway

Funny old world… having a Multi-millionaire leading the “Workers'”party.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonas_Gahr_St%C3%B8re
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September 15, 2021 2:24pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Oink Comrade oink
  
  7 1
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  September 15, 2021 3:10pm
- MCos
  
  If/when Ardern owns her Auckland house freehold she’ll be a multimillionaire too.
  I certainly am.
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:16pm
  - Adroit
    
    Freehold just means that one owns the land compared to leasehold or the like. It does not imply anything regarding having a mortgage or not.
    
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    September 15, 2021 4:34pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Not exactly the same as being 3rd Generation multi-millionaire tho’ is it?
    https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-norway-election-labour-stoere-idUKKCN1BI1TT
    
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    September 15, 2021 5:25pm
Aquataur

Does anyone else see this as an appalling abuse of process and judicial independence. A coroner is a judicial officer, and the poor coroner who looks into this case is now faced with their boss predetermining the outcome!

Tantamount to the Chief Justice saying “I don’t think Mr X is guilty” BEFORE the trial, and before the facts are in. Then leaves it to a Judge to run a trial (inquest in this case)

From the Herald

The country’s’ top coroner has this morning reiterated that the death of an Auckland teenager is not related to the Covid-19 vaccine.

Rumours have spread online that the Year 13 student’s death was linked to the Pfizer vaccine.

Chief coroner Judge Deborah Marshall said this morning that this was not the case.

BUT WE HAVEN”T HAD THE AUTOPSY RESULTS OR A PROPER INQUEST BUT I”LL STATE THAT IT WASN’T LINKED

“I am aware of ongoing speculation about the cause of death in a case involving an Auckland teenager that was recently referred to the Coroners’ Court,” she said.

“Based on the information available to date, it does not appear that the death in question is linked to the Pfizer Covid-19 vaccine.”

Marshall said the “issue” would still be “investigated carefully” by the coroner and “pertinent information will be requested from various agencies, including the Covid-19 Vaccination Independent Safety Monitoring Board”.

“It could be a number of months before the final post-mortem report is received and all information relating to this death is obtained from relevant agencies.

“The coroner’s findings will be made available once the inquiry has been completed.”
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September 15, 2021 2:43pm
wreck1080

Does anyone really think Collins can win the next election? Her teaming up with cam slater and the catty fight with the ex-employee are just more damage to the party.

Next opinion poll will not be pretty.

If Chris Luxon were not religious, he’d be my pick for Nat leader. I like people who’ve run businesses or been successful in business – they are good at just getting things done.
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September 15, 2021 3:03pm
- MCos
  
  Interesting when women are involved the vocabulary is often condescending. Debates become catty fights. Raised voices are described as shrill . . . . . .
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:12pm
- Adroit
  
  Being religious doesn’t exclude Luxon – the fact that he’s a wet, woke centrist like another Muller excludes him.
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:35pm
- kevn
  
  @wreck… Luxon was just in a lucky place at the time. Not sure his skills were put to any test at Air NZ.
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:53pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  What’s pretty about Lieabore?
  
  1 2
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  September 15, 2021 5:35pm
ABS4EVA

Now in My Travels Team of 5 million

I saw a Cricket Net Set up on a Nature Strip

I say how wonderful
I wonder how long before the Police are called
6 1
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September 15, 2021 3:13pm
Tom Barker

I’m surprised to learn that Judith Collins is again taking advice on political strategy from Cameron Slater. I honesty thought she’d learned better than that.
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September 15, 2021 3:14pm
- James Stephenson
  
  *citation required*
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:45pm
  - MCos
    
    Collins & Slater still in regular contact.
    Of course they might just talk about the weather, or swap cake recipes.
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/controversial-blogger-cameron-slater-still-in-regular-contact-with-collins-judiths-a-good-friend/PIFZXPJU25BU5JTFV2EHOC62Q4/
    
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    September 15, 2021 6:48pm
    - James Stephenson
      
      Translation: Judith’s in contact with his Dad and Cameron’s talking himself up.
      
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      September 15, 2021 7:25pm
Monique Watson

Vote early. Vote often. Did my bit and have been to the polls. Such a laugh to see how many Republicans thought they would have a chance at becoming Governor.
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September 15, 2021 3:48pm
- MCos
  
  I see the Democrats have been cheating on an industrial scale.
  67% No
  
  5 2
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  September 15, 2021 4:21pm
  - Steve Todd
    
    I know! How do they get away with it?
    
    3 4
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    September 15, 2021 4:36pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  Heh heh heh.
  
  Seriously, did you expect anything different had someone like Larry “White Supremacist” Elder been elected?
  
  It would have just been Arrnuuulldd all over again. The Democrat super-majorities would have rolled over any proposals and any vetos he made.
  
  Nope. White privilege, including all the wealth and clout involved with being Pelosi’s nephew, has won again in California and now we can sit back and watch the unfolding of Mencken’s famous observation:
  
  “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”
  
  🙂
  
  Wonder if he’ll release Sirhan Sirhan now?
  
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  September 15, 2021 6:10pm
  - Inandout
    
    California is a dead State anyway, appalling homelessness and poverty. It will stay a Dem cesspool much like NY. NZ is beginning on the road to mass homelessness once the motels overflow.
    
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    September 15, 2021 7:36pm
Jack5

Dear ?Batty:

I know you will be upset by the removal of the statue of Robert E. from the old Confederate capital, Richmond, Virginia.

This might take some of the pain away:

https://youtu.be/bJ9H57dJujg
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September 15, 2021 4:07pm
- MCos
  
  Put it on TradeMe.
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:27pm
  - Jack5
    
    I think TradeMe banned the Confederate flag, and I’m not sure how the couriers would handle the 6m high bronze statue, now in two pieces.
    
    I think bronze is about three-quarters copper, and copper is at record prices.
    
    In a previous copper boom, thieves were ripping old copper spoutings off buildings and cutting up phone lines. They’ve been fairly quiet this time.
    
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    September 15, 2021 5:42pm
- Adroit
  
  I wonder if people see the removal of the statues in the West in the same vein as the Taliban blowing up the statues in Bamiyan in Afghanistan? If not, why not?
  
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  September 15, 2021 4:37pm
graham

Oh dear … not a good look, when they put it this way.

Residency limbo: Emails reveal pleas of rural GP, while convicted criminals granted stay

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/residency-limbo-emails-reveal-pleas-of-rural-gp-while-convicted-criminals-granted-stay/7YXXA3A2PVAX33P5PVFWSRH42A/

A rural medical centre that pleaded with the Immigration Minister to help retain their young migrant GP is baffled to see residency reportedly granted to convicted criminals.
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September 15, 2021 5:15pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  I wonder if the people of new lynn
  are going to get a Dress up and Apology
  I wonder is English is ok for that
  
  Let’s face it the woman speaks Alien
  
  2 1
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  September 15, 2021 6:14pm
Fletch

I caught the end of a news item on 1 News and they were talking about shipments of ivermectin being stopped at the border here. Stopping people helping themselves…

Also, vaccination centers giving away prizes – vouchers for Noel Leeming, The Warehouse, mobile phones etc… There’s something wrong if people need to be coerced into taking it.
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September 15, 2021 6:10pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  coercion: the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
  Maybe you meant bribed or rewarded?
  
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  September 15, 2021 7:00pm
Muttonbird

National on 21%. So much to unpack in this article:

When did Curia become ‘the former’ National Party pollster? Does Curia not poll for the National Party anymore? Perhaps DPF could clarify.

The TPU is now commissioning polls, interesting. I wonder if the ACT Party contributes to this.

Why would the TPU and Curia release this devastating poll for National? Never seen Curia’s numbers released before, ever.

Crazy times!

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300407943/covid19-nz-new-poll-has-national-at-just-21-per-cent-act-not-far-behind-at-15-per-cent
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September 15, 2021 6:39pm
- stroker08
  
  Another leak?
  
  2 2
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  September 15, 2021 7:05pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Not a leak. As a supporter of the TPU it popped straight into my inbox. Fantastic.
    
    Great data DPF and so good to have it minus a Tova filter etc.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:12pm
- PeeJay
  
  interesting take, for me, is the gender split as noted by TPU. I think this is broadly right based on the conversations I take part in or am around. For some reason, a lot of women are not so keen on the centre right at the moment – blame MSM etc, but it’s not going to change in a hurry. I think until National can fix this, they are really going to struggle.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:26pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/the-national-partys-polling-company-has-the-party-crashing-to-within-six-points-of-act/7IBA3JOBKVIJH6OMASRJHONCOY/

How do we save National here? I’m really disappointed with them. Labour are so bad, I don’t think I could take another term.

I’m an Act supporter, but will vote strategically to keep labour out.
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September 15, 2021 6:47pm
- BAM
  
  Liberals in National trying to regain control and destroying the party in the process.
  
  Hope something better rises from the ashes.
  
  6 1
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  September 15, 2021 6:58pm
- emmess
  
  If that is right, National are past saving.
  Let Act take over as the main (or only) centre-right party.
  
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  September 15, 2021 6:59pm
- gump
  
  Why would you want to save National?
  
  It’s the party that professes to believe in self-responsibility. If it wants to save itself then it needs to take responsibility for itself.
  
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  September 15, 2021 7:09pm
- Muttonbird
  
  [Deleted and a 2 month ban. Mod.]
  
  https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy : What is the easiest way to get banned?
  
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  September 15, 2021 7:14pm
  - Jibber NO Jabber
    
    ?
    
    5 0
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    September 15, 2021 8:33pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Seriously have you no self control MB. Enjoy reading.
    
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    September 15, 2021 9:09pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Yay!
    
    1 1
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    September 15, 2021 9:27pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Like a lamb to the slaughter.
    
    2 2
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    September 15, 2021 9:42pm
- stroker08
  
  The next National PM is not in caucus. They have a massive identity and strategy issue that can only be resolved with lots of fresh blood.
  
  Collins in an anathema to women. Almost all women (young and old) I know are right leaning but dislike her butch persona. There’s tine to stop the bleeding but Collins wont pull the blue team out of the shit.
  
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  September 15, 2021 7:21pm
  - lifesgood
    
    How strange. Almost all the women I know admire her.
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:10pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Seen the poll we’re discussing?
      
      67% definitely don’t
      
      3 1
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      September 15, 2021 8:36pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Electorally most women are left leaning (labour has 50% more female than male supporters)
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:39pm
    - Batman
      
      Partly because elements of the right push policies and views which turn off women.
      
      Women are the same as men when it comes to the economy and feeling the sting of tax bracket creep, let me tell you. Especially millennial women who are now higher earners.
      
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      September 15, 2021 11:23pm
      - BananaLlama
        
        Nah otherwise Simon Bridges wouldn’t have been polling so high.
        They don’t like Collins and Covid is a gift for Labour.
        
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        September 15, 2021 11:56pm
- PeeJay
  
  Predict you are going to get lot’s of dump the woke brigade responses. I’m not so sure this is the answer – National need to be in the centre to win – Key got that and but for Winnie, English would have won also from the middle – just need a good strong Act party to nudge it rightward in government! Regardless, a lot on this blog wish it wasn’t so, the middle is somehow distasteful, but tilting at windmills isn’t the most productive approach. Call it woke if you will, but NZ has moved on a bit from ‘let’s dow Oreawa mark 2’ – it’s not going to be the silver bullet. And going hard right is sure as shit not going to win over the part of the electorate they seem to be doing poorly with at the moment – women.
  
  I mentioned it a while ago on this blog – the chances of Seymour being PM are miniscule. However, sometimes in politics the unexpected can happen. I mentioned it before, and yes I know France has a presidential election, but Macron came through the middle of the two ugly sisters over there. Highly unlikely that Seymour could do something similar, but you never know.
  
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  September 15, 2021 10:39pm
Muttonbird

Perhaps Cam Slater is now doing polling for the National Party.

After all, how hard can it be?
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September 15, 2021 7:00pm
- Ian Boag
  
  Get a grip.
  
  Curia is a professional polling company. Like UMR and Colmar Brunton and probably some others. Any polling business that screwed the scrum based on what the client wanted to hear would be discredited in no time flat.
  
  Sorry to disappoint … paranoia is such fun
  
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  September 15, 2021 8:44pm
ecco

Ugh can’t believe so many people think Ardern & Labour are doing such a good job. I think the results would be different if the poll was just in the Auckland area.

Unless the majority of NZers don’t really care about the direction of NZ and just want their wage subsidy to continue.

Agree with muttonbird, how come Curia poll results are now being released? Was this internal polling?
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September 15, 2021 7:17pm
- Colville
  
  When Collins is the alternative yeah women will vote for Cindy.
  
  Collins chose to attack Dr Wiles (who I loathe) this week by calling her “fat”
  
  Brilliant move that.
  
  Allow the biased media a free swing with the baseball bat and no you cant block it because you asked for it.
  
  FAT ? Who is the moron advising Collins? the same twat that told Shearer to hold up two dead fish in parliament?
  
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  September 15, 2021 7:40pm
  - lifesgood
    
    She did not call her fat. She used a common figure of speech although I guess the uneducated wouldn’t know that.
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:09pm
    - BAM
      
      It was dumb and she should have chosen her words better.
      
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      September 15, 2021 8:28pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Angels on the head of a pin
      
      It was a dumb thing to say
      
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      September 15, 2021 8:30pm
    - Colville
      
      lifesgood.
      
      If I call your Wife a “big fat *****” do I think she is skinny?
      
      Calling a fat bitch fat is just stupid. Collins deserves every point of her 6? percent who believe in her.
      
      6% is 1/16th of NZ voters. Fit to lead New Zealand? I dont think so, with that kind of stupidity falling out of her gob.
      
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      September 15, 2021 9:21pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    I’ve said this before. Either her comms team is a PoS or she’s not listening to them
    
    I give you recently:
    
    Talofa
    Portraitgate
    The Big Fat…
    
    None of which were worth risking a single vote over – all of which have lost votes
    
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    September 15, 2021 8:34pm
  - PeeJay
    
    You’re not going to feel the love for this, but I think you have a point. Love her or loathe her, Ardern comes across very well. Sure, the MSM are clearly on her side, but bloody hell do National and Collins come across as amateur hour on a regular basis? That ‘fat’ comment was an absolutely bloody gift for the media! I’ve said it before, but their comms / PR strategy is a train wrreck and need a complete re-think.
    
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    September 15, 2021 10:49pm
Tom Hunter

I’m semi-amused that the likes of MCos and Steve Todd have absolutely no problem with the White Grrrl who threw an egg at Elder while wearing a gorilla mask.

Jesus, if it had been a GOP voter doing that to a Black Democrat politician it would have been a front-page / Top-Of-The-Hour screamfest from coast-to-coast.

Instead, crickets.

Ah well. Saw it with #MeToo, which collapsed even before Gropey Joe was elected and has had their fall confirmed with Cuomo’s protector Roberta Kaplan quitting after being a great feminist by smearing Cuomo accusers.

Wonder what 2024 will bring from the Democrats?
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September 15, 2021 8:06pm
- Steve Todd
  
  What? Speaking for myself, I knew nothing about the incident until a few minutes ago. I’m as appalled as you are at the blatant racism displayed by the perpetrator.
  
  I would also point out that MCos’s comment, being a take-down of the endless accusations of vote-rigging by the Democrats, to which I responded in kind, is a completely separate matter. To conflate the two, and imply that he and I are racist for not commenting on the egg-throwing incident, when no-one else, except you, has either, is unfair.
  
  I like reading your comments, Tom, but this one is far from your best. You have quite unnecessarily let yourself down.
  
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  September 16, 2021 7:55am
WaveyDavey

For those asking

Curia was polling on behalf of the Taxpayers’ Union
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September 15, 2021 8:21pm
- Cinematic
  
  Yes and it was very interesting. It’s females keeping Labour where they are. My thought is covid has triggered the nurturer/protector instinct and that plays to the incumbent particularly when they’re running an elimination strategy.
  
  Prior to covid I had a number of chats with women who found the messiah like treatment Jacinda received from young professional women in particular a little disturbing.
  
  It’s the perfect political storm for Labour. But nothing lasts forever.
  
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  September 15, 2021 9:04pm

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