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September 25, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 25 September 2021

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mikenmildagain

Tonight, many of us will watch the 100th rugby test between the All Blacks and the Springboks, 100 years and 53 days since the teams first met at Dunedin. The All Blacks won that first game, but lost the second test, while a nil-all draw at Athletic Park meant the great battle for rugby supremacy had not been resolved. The battle would be joined again, and not just on strictly sporting terms. After the Springboks narrowly beat a New Zealand Maori XV on that first tour, a South African journalist wrote that the visiting side were visibly disgusted to see European New Zealanders cheering for natives against their fellow white men.

Since 1921, the two sides have played a further 96 tests. Most of these have been played since the 1995 world cup and the advent of professional rugby. Before then, the All Blacks had visited South Africa six times (five series and a one-off test), while the Springboks had toured New Zealand four times. By the time the two sides contested the 1995 world cup final, they had met 39 times for 20 wins to the Springboks, 17 wins to the All Blacks, and two drawn matches. Only once, in 1937, had the touring side won a series away, when the Springboks were ruefully dubbed the ‘best team to ever leave New Zealand’.

The sixty matches following South Africa’s readmission to sporting contests have been much more heavily weighted in favour of the All Blacks, who have won 43 times, with the Springboks winning 16 times, with one match drawn.

The sporting relationship always involved matters of race. All Blacks of Maori descent were not selected for the tours of South Africa in 1928, 1949 and 1960. The touring Springbok teams did not play a New Zealand Maori side again until 1956. From the 1950s, more and more New Zealanders found South Africa’s apartheid system repugnant. Some concessions were made by the South Africans, after the scheduled 1967 tour was cancelled when it became clear that South Africa would not welcome Maori players. Touring All Blacks in 1970 had two or three players accorded the status of ‘honorary whites’.

The 1973 Springbok tour of New Zealand was cancelled, at the request of our prime minister. The 1976 All Black tour to South Africa proceeded, despite protest in New Zealand, and sparked many teams in other sports to boycott events involving New Zealand, most notably at the Montreal Olympics.

Most readers would be aware of the bitter Springbok tour in New Zealand in 1981, with very large protests and many acts of violence. The proposed All Black tour in 1985 was cancelled after two lawyers sued the NZRFU and won with their argument that touring South Africa would breach the rugby union’s own constitution.
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September 25, 2021 8:00am
- RockyJ
  
  And yet many people in New Zealand now think that introducing apartheid into this country, via the He Puapua secret government plan, is entirely appropriate. Strange times indeed. Thank you for highlighting this, Milky.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:07am
- Scott
  
  “The sporting relationship always involves matters of race”.
  
  That’s quite true Mikey and it still does. I haven’t researched the South African rugby team but I know that their cricket team is racially selected. Why is Devon Conway playing for New Zealand? Because he can’t get in the South African team. Why can’t he get in the South African team? Because there are only four places for white players in the South African cricket team. There are seven places reserved for coloured people, three of whom have to be black. So the South African cricket team today is a racially selected team. I very much suspect the South African rugby team is selected in similar fashion?
  
  It’s another reason why I’m not a liberal. When I was a liberal in 1981 I went on as many South African tour protests as I could. It all seemed so simple then. Just get rid of apartheid and bring in a rainbow nation and all would be well.
  Well all is not well. In South Africa today a white person has to be better than a coloured person to get the job. If they are evenly balanced than the coloured person will get the job. This has given rise to large numbers of whites living in an underclass in shantytowns and parks because they can’t get work.
  
  The white people who ran apartheid were not especially sinful. They have been followed by black people who now run the show and have instituted an apartheid type system, but in reverse. This shows us the sinfulness of human nature. It’s not just confined to white people.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:15am
- Brian McDonald
  
  “a South African journalist wrote that the visiting side were visibly disgusted to see European New Zealanders cheering for natives against their fellow white men.”
  Have to almost laugh about that now.
  The deftness, racial camaraderie, and expression of All Black and NZ rugby looked into the future even 100 years ago.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:23am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Excellent post mikenmild, and we cannot forget that our rugby relationship with South Africa has been tinged with controversy since the very beginning.
  
  I’m old enough that South Africa is our greatest rival, unlike many younger people who, denied a contest between the two for a period of time, regard Australia as our toughest opponent. I have very vague memories of the 1960 tour of South Africa, and much better memories on their tour to New Zealand in 1965. I will never forget the sight of a young Bryan Williams scoring tries on the hard grounds in Africa in 1970; we used to watch the matches in black and white, at tea-time on Sunday, a week after they had been played. How the coloureds at Cape Town and East London loved the young Samoan man with the massive thighs!
  
  Sadly, I remember the 1981 tour all too well. I was a fervent supporter, thoroughly disgusted by the tactics employed by the protest movement. But as the 1980’s moved on, my position changed, and I can state now that the Cavaliers tour in 1986 was a massive mistake.
  
  In 1997, I attended a test match at Ellis Park, when the All Blacks beat South Africa 35-32 and Frank Bunce scored one of the great solo tries. The hospitality of the South African fans after the match was wonderful, to the detriment of my health the following day!
  
  I’m thoroughly looking forward to tonight’s match, even if such a significant game is being played in Townsville of all places, not Dunedin as it should have been. I expect the All Blacks to win, but the Springboks will leave nothing in the tank. I saw a video on Twitter last night which to me encapsulates rugby, and the comradeship of the sport; who would have believed when that first match was played, that one hundred years later, both teams would be captained by outstanding young men of colour in Siya Kalisi and Ardie Savea?
  
  https://twitter.com/TonyStuart55/status/1441360687712800770
  
  Bring it on, and here’s to the next 100 matches in the greatest rivalry in rugby.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:24am
  - Cinematic
    
    We’ll win in a canter. This Bok side is awful and badly coached. Highlighted by a centre who struggles to catch and pass.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:35am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      TAB agrees with you. My lazy $5 on the Saffers was irresistible at $4.85.
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:20pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I can only personally remember flashes of the 1976 tour, and, like you, wanted the Springboks to tour in 1981. That tour was a formative emotional experience for, as I expect it was for many Kiwis born after 1960. In fact, I would be very surprised if any New Zealander born between 1950 and 1970 would be unable to recall whether they were pro- or anti-tour.
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:08am
    - Steve Todd
      
      In fact, I would be very surprised if any New Zealander born between 1950 and 1970 would be unable to recall whether they were pro- or anti-tour.
      
      Heh, heh. Good one, mikenmild.
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:41pm
    - Tony Stuart
      
      The 1976 tour was memorable for two refereering controversies in the final test, blatant obstructions on Andy Leslie and Bruce Robertson went unpunished, and there was a strong case Robertson’s merited a penalty try. The All Blacks lost 15-14, and lost the series 3-1.
      
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      September 25, 2021 1:27pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        And the switch to neutral referees in 1981 didn’t help much. Saffers still whinge about how many minutes Norling allowed for injury time at the Eden Park ‘flour bomb test’.
        
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        September 25, 2021 1:30pm
    - RockyJ
      
      Wow, don’t we change as we age. I marched against the Springbok tour but now describe myself as right of conservative.
      Whereas you, Milky, supported the tour but would probably (forgive me for my presumption) describe yourself as a liberal progressive.
      
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      September 25, 2021 3:19pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I was vociferously pro-tour, but discovered that it was quite easy to slip from just wanting the long-desired rugby contest to go ahead to supporting apartheid itself to nakedly racist sentiment. My thinking was advanced by reading a piece by John Reason in Barbed-Wire Boks Graham Mourie’s autobiography, and Babes in Verwoeds, a short book by a mixed race Kiwi couple who toured South Africa.
        
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        September 25, 2021 4:19pm
    - gump
      
      @mikenmildagain
      
      I think your key point was missed by most readers.
      
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      September 25, 2021 5:03pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Snigger.
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:01pm
  - MCos
    
    I remember the 1956 tour.
    Maybe it was because it was the only show in town, but I think rugby probably hit a high point with public fervour that year.
    The other day the backlash over the the Blackcaps cancellation of their tour of Pakistan showed just how intense cricket is treated over there.
    By contrast the ABs could only half fill Eden Park before disappearing to play in the backblocks of Oz and most people don’t care.
    Apart from anything else rugby is dominated in some regions by bloody great bearded ogres, collapsed scrums, rolling mauls, goal kicking first fives & yellow cards.
    No match for NRL, T20, netball, grizzling about the government.
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:15am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Eden Park was only half full for that test because a week before 47,000 were there for the first Bledisloe Cup test. Total attendance of 72,000 for consecutive tests in the same city, with the second one arranged at short notice, was a good turnout.
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:27pm
      - MCos
        
        Back in 1956 62,400 went along to one test in uncomfortable surroundings, standing in pools of urine . . . .
        
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        September 25, 2021 1:48pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        […], standing in pools of urine . . . .
        
        Ah, MCos: memories.
        
        Lions v All Blacks 1971, Lancaster Park. I was in the No. 3 stand, and the steam rising from the embankment opposite was a sight to behold.
        
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        September 25, 2021 4:02pm
      - CJames
        
        Yes Steve I was at that test on the embankment,- the only game the All Blacks won from the runaway try – and at the Canterbury game some weeks before when there was running brawls. I think Three Lions got injured in that game. One broke his thumb hitting Alex Wylie (who was God there)
        
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        September 25, 2021 6:12pm
      - MCos
        
        I was on that bank, but worse I was at Carisbrook for the game there. That was the worst I’ve ever seen!
        The Lions never gave the ABs a chance & it was the end of Fergie’s career. He was completely outplayed and missed a penalty from out in front.
        A couple of weeks later Laurie Mains replaced him and got all sorts of shit from the Chch crowd.
        Down in Dunedin I stayed with my sister who was a student down there. She had a windowless bedroom at 662 Castle St.
        The next test was at Wellington and the selectors were at their wits end so they rang Brian Lachore who’d retired. He famously left a note for his wife that he was popping out and may be some time.
        
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        September 25, 2021 6:35pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        CJames: Yes! Ian Kirkpatrick’s try, running to the southern end, towards the schoolboy’s enclosure, that I no longer watched my Test rugby from.
        
        I watched many a big game on the embankment, including the infamous Lions v Canterbury game that year, when Alister Hopkinson and Alex Wylie were the “enforcers”, plus the great game in 1966, when Fergie McCormick landed a long-range penalty, in a 6-8 loss. Great days.
        
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        September 25, 2021 7:12pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Thanks, MCos. Your memories certainly add to mine.
        
        That was the worst I’ve ever seen!
        
        The only test I ever saw at Carisbrook, was against the Wallabies in 1964. I don’t recall seeing any “steam”, but I was only 12, and me and my dad were facing the main stand, so maybe it was behind me (if you know what I mean, as I’m sure you do ?).
        
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        September 25, 2021 7:57pm
      - cha
        
        standing in pools of urine . . . .
        
        The old man told me all about the bike innertubes….
        
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        September 26, 2021 8:05am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      I have a good mate in South Africa who is a nephew of the 1956 Springbok loose forward Butch Lochner. We had a particularly memorable night when I visited him in Ladysmith, Natal in 1976 where every test match between the Boks and the All Blacks was dissected at length, accompanied by significant quantities of single malt whisky.
      
      The hospitality I referred to above at Ellis Park came about after I was abused by a drunken Springbok fan as I was leaving my seat. A couple of chaps intervened, and invited me to their pub, in the grandstand at Ellis Park, where a good time was had by all. We love to hate them during the match, but South African fans, by and large, are generous, friendly, and capable of drinking large quantities of alcohol in a short period of time. The blokes are pretty good too!
      
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      September 25, 2021 1:33pm
  - Prince
    
    I recall the 1970 tour for the huge shock we got in the first test.
    The tour had been a triumphant march through the provinces to that point, scoring tries and playing champagne rugby. SA President Dr Dannie Craven pondered aloud how we seemed invincible. The trap was well set.
    SA had two flankers, Jan Ellis and Greyling, who wrecked havoc on us. Our halfback Laidlaw was concussed within five minutes but stayed on. We lost 17-6 – a thrashing in those days. Of course this was all relayed to us via radio – we waited a week for the TV coverage.
    We lost the second test (memorable for McCormick’s stiff arm on the SA centre Sid Nomis), won the third, lost the fourth.
    For my generation, and especially my father’s, the Boks were the ultimate clash. The memory of Fitzy pounding the ground in 1996 still brings tears to my eyes.
    
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    September 25, 2021 2:08pm
- rouppe
  
  What I found interesting was a call from Pakistan to “keep politics and sport separate”.
  
  I remember that was a general theme in the years leading up to the 1981 tour, however the screaming skull wasn’t having a bar of it.
  
  Interesting how when the white South African government called for that, it was racist and bad, but when the Pakistani government call for it, no push back at all…
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:05pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    You might be able to consider that issue by some good old Jesuit casuistry.
    Are are sporting boycotts bad?
    Are all sporting boycotts good?
    Are some sporting boycotts good, but others bad? If so, what distinguishes a good sporting boycott from a bad sporting boycott?
    
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    September 25, 2021 12:56pm
    - rouppe
      
      Well we’re seeing that right now here in Aotearoa New Zealand.
      
      Laws based on race were bad when South Africa did it.
      
      Laws based on race are good when Jacinda Ardern does it.
      
      It shows that people’s position on separatism wasn’t driven by a desire for equality, it was simply convenient politics
      
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      September 25, 2021 3:13pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        We really need a Jesuit to answer those tricky questions.
        
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        September 25, 2021 4:32pm
- Steve Todd
  
  That was a wonderful post, mikenmildagain. It was most appropriate that you managed to secure top spot this morning.
  
  I have vague memories of the 1960 tour of South Africa; really only of the results, and that my family GP, Hugh Burry, was in the team. In 1961, when I was nine, he made a home visit to see me. I forget what my ailment was, but I certainly remember getting his autograph!
  
  The only time I saw an All Blacks-Springboks test “in the flesh”, was the Third Test at Lancaster Park, on 4 September 1965 — I was in the schoolboys’ enclosure at the southern end of the ground. We were leading 16-5 at half-time, but they won 19-16, with Tiny Naude kicking a last-minute penalty to snatch victory for South Africa (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzy6WxImf_s). Sadly, out of 35 points scored that day, only five — their first-half try and conversion — were scored at my end of the ground.
  
  Also sadly, I must be in radio silence from 7.00 tonight, through to 3.00 tomorrow afternoon, so that I can watch the delayed coverage on Prime, “live”.
  
  One small correction to your post. I well remember, in 1970, mention being made that four All Blacks were non-white. They were Blair Furlong, Sid Going, Buff Milner and Bryan Williams.
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:34pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Thanks for that correction. I seem to recall that some All Blacks who toured earlier had some amount of Maori ancestry, but the South Africans had not advanced their racial science sufficiently to exclude them.
    
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    September 25, 2021 1:33pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      I recall the same, I think, pertaining to the 1949 tour, but, when you look at the list of All Blacks (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_New_Zealand_national_rugby_union_players), from, say 1925 to 1928, and from 1946 to 1949, it’s hard to think who they might have been.
      
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      September 25, 2021 3:35pm
- John Pakes
  
  I am a bit late to this thread milkenmilkagain, but yes, the divisions that the times caused certainly were there, both major and minor.
  I can remember standing outside my place of work in Tutanekai Street when a protest march came through. It was lead by a lady with a megaphone, who was shouting ” get out of the way, this is a protest march” I thought maybe she was not allowed to do that. And I saw a young man jump to the road, take a protesters bicycle and stamp all over it, breaking it’s spokes. And I thought maybe he was not allowed to do that.
  And I can remember having a robust discussion with my Dad and Brother, them on one side of the table, me on the other. It included things like Ron Don’s parentage and matters rugby. Mum was in the middle making a cup of tea.
  Divisive times they were, both major and minor.
  
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  September 25, 2021 5:05pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Mike, when you say “large” protests, they were dwarfed by the numbers attending the games. I know, I was at a few. And had to get to the games, had to run the gauntlet of protesters in tie-dyed clothes with roman sandals, communists, unionists (on both sides of the road) and all the other twats with an axe to grind, many who carried baseball bats, bars, chunks of wood, had motorcycle helmets on and were just looking for a scrap. The police implored the rugby crowds not to retaliate to provocation, as they realised that it would be a bloodbath that they could do nothing about if the crowd got wound up. Though it was gratifying to see the police give some of them a hiding when they invaded the ground at Lancaster Park. If the police hadn’t, the crowd surely would have.
  And just for a bit of context, when Mandela came to NZ and was at a Government function, the Marxist moron Minto (oh, thats good!) asked Mandela when South Africa was going to embrace Communism. Mandela laughed at him said not while he is around and asked if he was completely mad!
  
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  September 25, 2021 5:07pm
Warren

I believe this Government is rotten to the core and if voters in New Zealand really look back on some of the dodgy dealings done by the top echelon of the Leadership they would have to agree.
The three, Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern, Deputy Prime Minister and Finance Minister Grant Robertson and the Speaker of the house have all been Guilty of putting themselves first before the NZ Taxpayer with their dodgy activities.
These three are and have been called out on some pretty awful dealings on or in Parliament, starting with the sexual assault by a deviate working out of the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s office in which she promised the victim she would get Justice for them only to cover it up.
Then there was the land grab at Ihumatoa that Jacinda Ardern and Grant Robertson did with Maori only for the Auditor General to order them to return to Parliament and fix the bulls up they made and to apologize.
A few months later there was the slander case against the Speaker of the House Trevor Mallard for accusing a Parliamentary Staff Member of Rape that he could not prove that cost the Taxpayer around $350,000 with more legal dealings to come, and who knows how much that will cost.
Then finally we have the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern and her Deputy Grant Robertson also the Finance Minister using money out of funds of over $100 billion borrowed for Covid-19 to grant to organizations that tickle their fancy or buy votes to keep them in power like money to cover school lunches NZ wide, Camera’s on fishing boats, the Kianga Ora Acceleration fund, Creative NZ and the Arts and now $ $710, million to help push through the Three Waters Reforms that the Government are having extreme difficulties pushing through because the opposition is growing by the day.
This Government is politically corrupt and people out their need to think about their Children and future Generations that will have to pay back all this printed money because of there stupidity and love for a dictator.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/jacinda-ardern-grant-robertson-defend-covid-19-spend-as-judith-collins-rips-into-dodgy-creative-nz-funding-decisions.html
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September 25, 2021 8:00am
- Bob
  
  Unfortunately for the future generations of grandchildren, the borrowed/printed money has not been invested into any form of productive asset that would provide a return on the investment.
  So there will be NO national income with which to repay these so called borrowings.
  NOT a bright future ahead for the grand and great grand children is there.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:59am
- Tricati
  
  Will said Warren – And when you add their failure to deliver on their election promises like housing, mental health, child poverty, homelessness and the like, you realize how bloody inept and dishonest they really are.
  Unfortunately celebrity politics governs now, and with a bought & paid for media, they are in the box seat.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:58am
- Paulus
  
  Jacinda has got the votes at least for the next two years so imagine the damage she can still do in that time,
  
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  September 25, 2021 1:31pm
krazykiwi

Remember three weeks to flatten the curve? It sounded like a reasonable social contract at the time. Just three weeks of shared pain in order to beat the challenge, and to get life back to normal. Most New Zealanders, me included, signed up for this.

In truth what has been delivered has been 18+ months of hermit kingdom, filled with systematically terrified people, and led by a PM who by any results-based measure is the worst in New Zealand’s history.

Having learned nothing from the establishment of our hermit kingdom, we now engage in lots of chatter about the 90% vaccination target. How will be reach it? How is it measured? What will happen if this, or that eventuates en route to attaining this magic number. So much excitement!

That we even participate in this type of discourse is evidence of societal weakness, one that demonstrates a tacit acceptance that our human rights are now a conditional dispensation of the state.

Based on the dress-circle view we’ve had of other countries, and of the murmurings of local ‘nudge’ enthusiasts, we can be sure that some form of vaccine passport will be implemented here. This concept should be absolutely abhorrent to 99.9% of New Zealanders but I’ve heard people I previously regarded as sensible discussing this as a rational next step.

The ‘you do this’ (vaccinate, or carry papers) and ‘we’ll give you that’ (freedom) is the extortion model run by criminals coaxing the weak into their web.

The only way we get our freedoms back is by refusing to comply en masse with draconian diktats and demand the state start upholding the human rights our forefathers spilled blood to purchase on our behalf.

I would like to see an opposition with some backbone. Collins & Seymour: stop listening to the fearful mewling from your focus groups and start promoting some non-negotiable principles centred on freedom and liberty.
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September 25, 2021 8:00am
- PhilBest
  
  This is not going to end until people rise up and demand it ends.
  
  https://static.wixstatic.com/media/faab9f_05a5d967147a4b8da7f95eed3fb250cb~mv2.jpg/v1/fill/w_417,h_341,fp_0.50_0.50,q_90/faab9f_05a5d967147a4b8da7f95eed3fb250cb~mv2.webp
  
  The goalposts are going to keep moving forever. For now, “the vaccine hesitant” are being made the scapegoats. Everyone who attacks me because I am the percieved obstacle to the resumption of their jet-setting lifestyle, I tell them they are a fool, they are not going to get their jet-setting lifestyle back even after squads of burly policemen or soldiers have gone door to door and held down the hesitants while the needle is inserted. There will always be another excuse, another “variant”, another “booster shot” that not quite enough people have had yet.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:14am
  - thirteenstars
    
    “This is not going to end until people rise up and demand it ends.”
    
    Unfortunately we live in New Zealand where compliance has long been considered more of a civic virtue than standing up to government power grabs. In my experience Kiwis have no intellectual position on the role of the state or the limits of its power. When asked during her stint as PM what the limit of government power should be, Helen Clark blithely answered, whatever parliament says it should be. And I suspect it’s degenerated since then into, whatever Jacinda says it should be.
    
    The Aussies protest. The Americans sure as hell protest, and sometimes it’s called (gasp!) insurrection. But Kiwis? Oh, no, one must not step out of line. That amorphous, politically malleable blob known as “the community” comes first, and God help you if you forget it.
    
    Submission shall set you free.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:41am
    - tf78
      
      It’s the last straw that breaks the camel’s back. Remember the 21st November – Ground Swell Two – all inclusive.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:14am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      While it varies between national characters, we are all human beings, and we all have our limits as to the amount of oppressive, degrading, soul-destroying treatment we can take at the hands of so-called authorities, before we burst at the social seams and start taking back what we have as of right, no matter what that entails for those who have imposed this on us.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:24am
  - tf78
    
    Phil it will be off to the gulags for the likes of us judging on what’s being built in the UK. If the vaccines are so effective, why are the vaccinated so frightened of the unvaccinated. None of this makes sense.
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:12am
  - oldfella
    
    Phil, what if the hesitant are mostly Maori or PI?
    Do you really think Cindy would play hardball if that was the case? Nah, bro.
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:13am
    - PhilBest
      
      That’s one bright spot of hope, true, bro
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:40am
- Cinematic
  
  Well said.
  
  National and Act have failed in their duties to all NZers. It was vital they argued for implementation of the well reasoned pandemic planning NZ already had in place. A counter view was desperately needed.
  
  Instead they fell in behind Labour and have merely nibbled at the edges of Labour’s increasingly extreme policy.
  
  Pathetic, feeble, spineless. That’s you National and Act.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:17am
  - tf78
    
    Cinematic, National on the whole have not been informed of any of Jacinda’s intentions. You can’t act against what you’re not told.
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:15am
  - thirteenstars
    
    Yes, you’re right, and I’m an ACT supporter.
    
    ACT should know its constituency, and it should know that the large numbers of National voters that have defected to ACT have done so because National is Labour Lite.
    
    ACT should be standing on principle, and while accepting that the government has a role in situations like this it should not have a blank cheque to do whatever it likes, and that should be shouted loudly at every opportunity. Certainly that principle could not have failed to garner support considering the harshness and length of the current lockdown.
    
    And they should have a clear policy and targets of vax rates versus time and an end to lockdowns at all levels. They should be publishing an endgame strategy. God knows we have all the data we need. Let’s start being smart about it.
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:15am
- Rodney Hide
  
  kk
  
  Hear, hear. I always appreciate your contribution. My only quibble is with you signing up to the initial lockdown. Governments should only ever uphold our freedom — they should never take it away especially for “our own good”. Please keep up your contribution. I for one very much appreciate your work.
  
  Sincerely
  
  Rodney Hide
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:19am
  - westernScientest
    
    They should never have the power to infringe on freedom/natural human rights to begin with. The problem is how does a system get set up to ensure this while still providing the few useful functions of the state?
    
    The US founding fathers had a good crack at it, but their constitution and bill of rights hasn’t been upheld for decades, and is just in taters now.
    
    It is a genuine question Rodney, because I suspect you have spent a bit of time thinking about it. How can a state be set up, or transitioned into, such that these things are voluntary and can not be enforced by the state?
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:27am
    - Crisplion
      
      Unfortunately I don’t think there’s any way to enshrine liberty in a legal or constitutional sense. People have to hold it as a core value or it will be lost. That’s what depresses me most about the lockdowns – it’s exposed the extent to which New Zealanders and citizens of other democracies are now prepared to accept authoritarianism in the name of ‘safety’. It bodes very ill for the future of political liberty.
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:46pm
      - Rodney Hide
        
        Hi Crisplion
        
        I am afraid so. The fear and panic quickly folded in the opposition parties and the media. The critique was that government dilly-dallied in locking us up.
        
        Parliament was a rubber stamp. And the police enforced policy that was not law.
        
        I had a friend who explained that making us wear seat belts was just the start. He was right!
        
        Rodney Hide
        
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        September 25, 2021 5:59pm
  - dcrane
    
    Indeed, the initial lockdown was a failure in major respects. The government had two months from late January 2020 – when we all watched Wuhan being locked down and hospitals being built in days – yet nobody thought to get the legal basis of a lockdown in proper order here ahead of time? And why did we wait until mid-March to begin seriously considering restricting international arrivals? Had that begun just a few weeks earlier, most of the covid cases wouldn’t have made it here to begin with, and Level 4 would never have been needed.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:28am
    - Observer of Life
      
      DCrane:Remember Cindy was planning her big “day in the sun” (the anniversary of the CHC Massacre) so she was hell bent on not closing borders etc until that has happened. I recall she was finally forced to do so less than 24 hours out. Oh, and all the families of the victims had arrived from the Middle East etc by then (some with Covid???). Remember, this whole thing is about her image and reputation. Never about the rest of us.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:08am
      - namron
        
        “Observer,” jacinda has another BIG day coming.
        Some people in Gisborne reckon certain parts of NZ
        are going to become minus L1 !!
        
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        September 25, 2021 11:29am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      We so frequently hear the Government boasting about how they went “hard and early”. The lockdown was most certainly hard, especially on those who lost their businesses literally overnight, but it was never early. Act and National had been calling for the border to be closed for almost a month before the Government finally locked us down. That lie however, along with “be kind” and the “team of five million” were used with such frequency that people believed them to be the truth. Just look at the current state of our immigration system, with hundreds of families separated for more than 600 days, and tell me where the kindness is.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:29am
      - dcrane
        
        That’s right – I well recall the FM radio chatter in the weeks preceding the early March announcement of new border rules. People were feeling at risk and were ready for virus/temperature checks, quarantines, and other measures for arrivals. And then it turned out all Labour had in mind was a voluntary home quarantine, all but completely unenforced!
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:45am
      - tf78
        
        Tony, imagine if Cindy had to be separated from her daughter for that period of time – lockdowns would never have happened.
        
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        September 25, 2021 11:21am
  - CaptainCompromise
    
    Remember the bit where they said we needed to do it because it was the law and then it turned out on day 9 or 10 the law didn’t actually say that at all.
    
    Shits and giggles I tell you.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:47am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I agree with most of your comment.
  
  I’m less concerned about a vaccine passport.
  
  You will need proof of vaccination to travel to some countries and on some airlines. For example Qantas. I can’t do anything about that and neither can the government. So as I want to enter other countries and travel internationally I need a “Vaccine passport” and I expect the New Zealand government to facilitate that.
  
  Now let’s look to domestic issues.
  
  I don’t expect the government to mandate vaccine ‘passports’ for domestic purposes. And I would not support that. But I support the right of businesses to set conditions of entry that require vaccination. Some will do so. Others won’t. That decision by businesses will have two elements.
  
  The first is health and safety. Businesses have an obligation to keep their employees safe. Some have already required all employees to get vaccinated. And some will extend that requirement to people entering business premises.
  
  The second element is profit maximisation. For example some restaurants will judge that they can attract more customers by mandating vaccinations. Other hospitality venues will judge the opposite. Those are business decisions and my view is that the Government should not interfere in those decisions.
  
  In summary, I think you are worrying too much. Your need for a vaccine passport is unlikely to be mandated by the New Zealand government. Rather your need for such a “passport” will be driven by the requirements of airlines and whether you want to travel internationally. And of course whether your favourite restaurant requires vaccination. You can get vaccinated or find a new restaurant.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:23am
  - covfefe
    
    These vaccine passports (although a massive over-reaction) might be all well and good if the vaccine actually did what it says on the box, but they don’t seem to from my limited reading on the subject. Immunity wanes and they don’t prevent infection (while it seems they reduce severe infection) or spread. The elites have put their eggs in the vaccine basket and that is that. Personally, I would go for the two vaccines and then exposure to the virus (preferably a small dose) for boosting.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:32am
  - dcrane
    
    If only it were as simple as businesses having the freedom to choose. Businesses are likely to find themselves pressured into making these requirements by government actors.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:32am
  - westernScientest
    
    i suspect it will be implemented by stealth. If a business is found to be liable through he health and safety act, which they wouldn’t be now (if someone catches the flu or whatever at a business because someone was not vaxed, the business is not in breach of the act for letting that customer or staff member into the business). It forces businesses to be require one, which then the state will jump in with a solution because ‘the private sector isnt capable of solving a complicated problem like that’.
    
    I am all for businesses to have the choice, but they shouldn’t be liable, or forced to.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:34am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I’m “worrying too much” because recent history has taught us that not worrying enough (aka complacency) has led us to accept withdrawal of our civil liberties, as Rodney say, for our own good.
    
    To be consistent, supporting businesses discriminating on the basis of some Covid measure should also be permitted to exclude HIV sufferers, people with colds and flu, and the wheelchairs bound and white-cane carrying people that are a health and safety risk to other customers.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:38am
    - CaptainCompromise
      
      Exactly, won’t repeat me reply below but you’re on the money.
      
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      September 25, 2021 8:48am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        No he is not. He is implying that the Government should interfere with business decisions made in a free market to cater to his opposition to vaccines.
        
        If I have misunderstood him I withdraw and apologise. But the inference is he wants the government to legislate that hospitality venues should be prohibited from restricting access to their premises. I want free markets. Not more communist dictating by the government.
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:00am
      - Cinematic
        
        They already are restricted from prohibiting access for multiple reasons.
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:39am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Cinematic think about what you are suggesting. A restaurant is private property. The owner needs to comply with the Human Rights Act. That means not discriminating on these grounds
        
        sex, marital status, religion, ethics, ethnicity, nationality, disability, age, political opinion, employment status, family status and sexual orientation
        …….
        
        Are you seriously suggesting we add “covid vaccineation status”.
        
        Sorry I don’t want this government regulating the decisions of private bi business owners just because you don’t want to be vaccinated. Let the market decide. I’ll pay a premium to eat in a vaccinated only restaurant. The market will sort it out. Leave the bloody government out of it.
        
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        September 25, 2021 11:42am
      - sooty
        
        I would pay a premium to eat in an unvacinated restaurant!
        
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        September 25, 2021 12:18pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      That does not make sense. If a restaurant bannd HIV positive people it would be ridiculed, shamed, and go bust. And are you actually suggesting that people with influenza should be free to go to restaurants?
      
      The government interferes far too much in the decisions of businesses. In the case of hospitality this will be sorted out by the market. And if the government EITHER mandates hospitality venues to demand vaccine proof OR prohibits such mandates, I will be opposed. One is as bad as the other. Let venue owners make decisions in the best interests of the business. The government should just stay out of it.
      
      Are you seriously suggesting a draconian law that prohibits bar owners restricting entry to only vaccinated people?
      
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      September 25, 2021 9:56am
      - Matt Long
        
        Well many of our laws do prohibit discrimination against people based on a number of factors that either present real risks or risks that only exist in the mind of the potential discriminators.
        
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        September 25, 2021 11:06am
      - tf78
        
        Have separate spaces in restaurants/pubs for the clean and the unclean as they did for smoking areas. Everybody should be happy.
        
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        September 25, 2021 11:25am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “many of our laws” really? Apart from the human rights act which laws?
        
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        September 25, 2021 11:44am
  - PhilBest
    
    There was a phenomenon during the disgraceful race discrimination era in the USA, where businesses signed up to be listed in a directory of businesses who would deal with blacks. These directories were greatly appreciated by blacks because they knew where they could go, eg a motel in a strange town.
    
    We are going to need something like this for “the unvaccinated”. It would be quite possible for businesses to get an edge on their competitors by not stiff-arming what will remain a significant minority of potential customers. If anyone tries such a thing, we will find out soon enough just how keen the government is on “businesses making their own decisions”. It is all very sweet when businesses are “voluntarily” being the government’s enforcers isn’t it. Fascism itself historically, involves the business sector “voluntarily” acting like an arm of the State.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:41am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      And that would be great. I’m totally in favour of a restaurant marketing itself as welcoming unvaccinated folk.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:02am
      - Observer of Life
        
        BY: And as a vaccinated person THAT is the restaurant I would go to, to show solidarity to the unvaxxed.
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:13am
      - Cinematic
        
        Given it doesn’t make a lick of difference to you personally if a person is vaccinated or not why even have a position on this?
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:40am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Good on you. I’ll do the opposite. Aren’t markets great?
        
        I am totally opposed to self interested people lobbying the government for required vaccines for domestic activities. And I am equally opposed to people lobbying to prohibit such measures.
        
        I mean seriously you can’t just draw on the power of the state to smooth your way through society because you have decided to not get vaccinated. People who don’t get vaccinated are fully aware of the consequences of that decision for their participation in society.
        
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        September 25, 2021 11:49am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Given it doesn’t make a lick of difference to you personally if a person is vaccinated or not why even have a position on this?”
        
        I am really surprised you ask that question. You should be aware that the vaccine will significantly reduce my chances of contracting covid but it does not stop me contracting covid. Unfortunately. So of course I am going to favour restaurants that prohibit unvaccinated people. Which is why you will see hospitality venues making such mandates. Look at restaurants in the USA (except Texas) , Canada, Europe.
        
        Why do you think New Zealand is going to be different?
        
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        September 25, 2021 12:27pm
      - Cinematic
        
        But the science is in BY. It’s inevitable you’ll catch the vid either way. You’re protected against serious illness so why do you care?
        
        And of course the flip side, your vaccine will well and truly have waned in overall effectiveness by the time the border opens.
        
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        September 25, 2021 1:32pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    “…. requirements of airlines…”
    
    It’s the legal responsibility of business to “police” mandatory QR coding/sign in already (albeit a tad difficult to enforce). Why would it be any different for a vaccine passport where effective pre-boarding compliance systems ( ESTA’s . etc ) are already in place.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:44am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I don’t understand your question
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:03am
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        Perfectly reasonable statement re my question and probably my poor articulation by asking a question rather than stating my disagreement to your summary paragraph and using the term QR coding rather than QR scanning.
        
        So to clarify:
        It’s my view that the government will mandate vaccine passport use and they will use the same general process as they use for mandatory QR scanning compliance to assist contact tracing (same as for mask wearing for certain domestic transport operations). That process is that they’ve made businesses responsible for the public’s compliance to the mandate in the first instance and law and only becomes involved if the businesses can’t/won’t enforce the public’s compliance.
        
        It’s a cheap way from the government’s perspective to enforce compliance, as it uses one group of the population to control another – so I understand it, but don’t I like it. Not much different to the nark line concept. Trust this clarify’s things.
        BTW – damned if I can see why anyone should down tick you for a simple, straight forward statement given my first comment – you got an up from me.
        
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        September 25, 2021 3:57pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Vaccine “passports” (for want of a better word) already exist to enter certain countries
    
    The idea of a Covid version is just a variation on a theme, I can’t really see what the fuss is about
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:46am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I would frame your statement differently. I want to travel. To Australia and Taiwan. And I will not be able to enter Australia without a vaccine passport. Or travel on Qantas and maybe not on Air New Zealand.
      
      I can’t change any of that. It is out of my control. I just want to get on a plane and see my family. And there are hundreds of thousands of people here in the same boat. Most of them want to get on the damn plane. Not get all wound up about vaccine passports.
      
      The Government will provide vaccine passports because people will demand them. There is no need for a mandate. And if you don’t want one don’t get one.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:08am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Oh I agree with you
        
        As far as airlines go there is another issue in that if they knowingly transport you to a country that you wouldn’t be allowed to enter (say not being vaccinated) then they are in the gun for costs and legal proceedings
        
        Whatever an airline might think it’s pragmatic to not allow a passenger to travel rather than get involved in that and putting vaccination requirements into their t&c is a simple way to do that
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:35am
      - Cinematic
        
        Which vaccine is that BY? There’s loads of different ones out there. You better hope you’ve had the ‘right one’. And given how Pfizer is performing you shouldn’t count your chickens just yet.
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:42am
    - dcrane
      
      The fuss is mainly about the application of the idea to domestic life. Sometimes I wonder if the term “vaccine passport” is being used to undermine resistance by implying this is just like the usual international travel rules.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:47am
  - Nickc2
    
    I agree Benedict. I’m in favour of such a passport mainly for my international travel. In saying this, the passport must be an official Govt Document and Internationally recognised. I’m concerned that I may arrive in a foreign country where such a passport is mandatory for even getting on a bus or entering a Pub/Restaurant. I believe parts of the UK and some Aust States are going to mandate such passports.
    I’m also informed my club intends to call a special meeting to determine Yes/No to such a passport as a right of entry.
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:11am
  - rouppe
    
    One element that I will tend to drift towards is avoiding those places (as much as possible) that require you to wear a mask.
    
    I went out for dinner last night with some friends. Because masks are mandated by law now in public places we were required to wear masks entering and leaving the restaurant. Right now this is a government mandate so I can’t take any umbrage with the restaurant.
    
    Of course as soon as we were seated then all masks were off, and the same was true of every table in the fairly full restaurant. Shows the silliness in my view. Funnily, when lining up to pay and leave loads of people who were previously happy to sit at the next table without a mask were suddenly all uppity about mask wearing.
    
    Anyway, hopefully mask wearing will become one of those choice things spoken about. When that happens I’ll be avoiding places that require a mask, albeit I’ll still go for an event organised by a friend cause I don’t want to be “that guy”.
    
    It will be interesting to see what businesses choose to do, and which ones prosper.
    
    As for a vaccine passport, I too do not favour them. They just reek of little yellow stars, but I think Benedict is correct, foreign jurisdictions will require them, and it’ll be a choice of have one or don’t travel.
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:36am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      If masks work, why would vaccination be required?
      
      If the vaccines work, why would vaccinated people need protection from unvaccinated people (who presumably are prepared to take their own risks)?
      
      If the vaccines don’t work, why do unvaccinated people require vaccination?
      
      Because these questions are unanswerable given the propositions we are expected to believe about the vaccination program, we can infer that vaccination is not an end but is instead a means-to-an-end, a sign of compliance providing an objective criterion to discern between who is compliant and who is not.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:50am
      - rouppe
        
        Regardless of whether masks work, they are awful. Apart from being inconvenient and uncomfortable, they strip away the most basic of human connections.
        
        Being forced to wear one puts me in a bad mood from the start.
        
        The real question is that if masks work, why is taking them off in a restaurant allowed? Obviously you can’t eat with one on, so that means if masks work, why are restaurants allowed to open and then all not forced to close permanently?
        
        The answer of course, is politics. Doing that would be political suicide. However having decided that not wearing masks for several hours in an enclosed space with up to 100 others is perfectly fine, the logical question is to ask why they are needed when entering and leaving? It’s not logical to think that there is risk in the first and last 2 minutes but none in the intervening 120 or 180.
        
        Having applied logic that the first and last 2 minutes provide no real additional risk then why is one required for 2 minutes to go pay for fuel? Or buy a coffee?
        
        From there it doesn’t take long for the whole mask premise to unravel and for use of them to be entirely optional
        
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        September 25, 2021 3:28pm
    - Paulus
      
      Get used to masks – buy shares in the company that make them because even at Level 1, and under even, they will remain compulsory
      
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      September 25, 2021 1:38pm
      - rouppe
        
        Masks are going to be the new plastic shopping bag. Blowing all over the place, washing up on beaches…
        
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        September 25, 2021 3:08pm
  - surfing
    
    “The first is health and safety. Businesses have an obligation to keep their employees safe.”
    
    This pretty much destroys krazykiwi’s argument. It is a human right to be safe from other peoples choices.
    
    Vaccine passports may not be required anyway if we reach a sufficient public vaccination threshold. eg, measles, we seem to accept 80% (or so) is sufficient for herd immunity. Vaccination proof is sometimes required when the vaccination rate drops and outbreaks occur.
    
    I’m against vaccine passports if we have high general vaccination levels.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:05am
    - tf78
      
      surfing, I suffered from the measles twice as a child – no vaccines back then, now I have my own natural immunity. That’s how viruses actually work.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:36am
    - rouppe
      
      The problem is the definition of “safe”. To keep employees absolutely safe an employer would have to pay them to stay at home.
      
      That’s obviously not tenable. Leaving Covid aside, employees were always at risk of something. Hot water or oven burns in a restaurant. Falling off a ladder in a building site. Tripping while on stairs in an office. Everyone was at risk of catching a cold or influenza from someone else turning up to work while infectious.
      
      The fact is that you can’t legislate for complete safety.
      
      So to bring Covid back into the mix, what is “safe enough” from covid? Given the death rate is some 0.2%, the risk is already low. The illness rate is higher, but we already have had that risk with Influenza, measles, chicken pox and never required proof of vaccination for those.
      
      Is denying entry to those without a vaccine a business owners right? Yeah, probably. Is it reasonable? Maybe right now, but I’m not convinced on that one long term
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:14pm
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    Benedict, your obvious blindspot is that you apparently think that what you find “reasonable” fully aligns with what the government thinks is “reasonable.” Over time since 2020, the referents of the term have evolved very significantly indeed, where we now “accept” what would have been unthinkable two years ago.
    
    Reading between the lines of your KB vaccine contributions, as well as sometimes reading the actual lines, allows us to infer where you are situated, so I take your exhortations to get vaccinated and your vaccine ID pronouncements with a grain of salt.
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:34am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      That’s OK. I appreciate the debate here. And I appreciate that my views attract a mixture of agreement and disagreement. It would be boring and astonishing if it were otherwise.
      
      Thank you ?
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:34pm
    - Bluegrass
      
      Executive Summary: slippery slopes and how to rationalize them.
      
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      September 25, 2021 2:26pm
- covfefe
  
  This is worth reading – https://brownstone.org/articles/twenty-steps-to-end-the-madness/
  
  As is this guy – https://healthy-skeptic.com/
  
  This country is a dangerous echo chamber – my medical colleagues are the worst participants.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:29am
  - freemark
    
    The credentials of the Brownstone article (which is great) are impressive.
    “Dr Alexander holds a PhD. He has experience in epidemiology and in the teaching clinical epidemiology, evidence-based medicine, and research methodology. Dr Alexander is a former Assistant Professor at McMaster University in evidence-based medicine and research methods; former COVID Pandemic evidence-synthesis consultant advisor to WHO-PAHO Washington, DC (2020) and former senior advisor to COVID Pandemic policy in Health and Human Services (HHS) Washington, DC (A Secretary), US government; worked/appointed in 2008 at WHO as a regional specialist/epidemiologist in Europe’s Regional office Denmark, worked for the government of Canada as an epidemiologist for 12 years, appointed as the Canadian in-field epidemiologist (2002-2004) as part of an international CIDA funded, Health Canada executed project on TB/HIV co-infection and MDR-TB control (involving India, Pakistan, Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Bhutan, Maldives, Afghanistan, posted to Kathmandu); employed from 2017 to 2019 at Infectious Diseases Society of America (IDSA) Virginia USA as the evidence synthesis meta-analysis systematic review guideline development trainer; currently a COVID-19 consultant researcher in the US-C19 research group”
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:15pm
- John Pakes
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Do you ever sleep?
  Here again, the first with a post, and long winded as usual. And, as usual, full of hyperbole and bunkum.
  Who is “systematically terrified”. Nobody that I know, none of my friends, where is the terror? Is this just a problem where you live? Can you see people shuffling nervously around your street or in the carpark, eyes averted and hats firmly pulled down?
  And why should a vaccination passport be so abhorrent to 99.9% of the people. On what do you base this assumption? Again, in my street it is being regarded as no imposition on freedom and liberty, but rather as an effective tool that could help lower our exposure to Covid. Not harmful, easy to do, has no sinister connotations regarding liberty, no different than the little card that I now carry saying that I have two jabs. Where is 1984 in that?
  And why should Collins and Seymour stop mewling? They at least have a feeling for the mood of the people, a mood that is far different than the doom that you seem to be in.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:39am
  - amospicton
    
    I see terrified irrational people everywhere John. I run quite a bit around some of the nicer parts of central Auckland. People are terrified that by my running past them at a couple of metres separation they are going to die. I see people in cars, alone, wearing masks. I see cyclists with no helmets….with masks. Absolutely no doubt in my mind people have been terrified by the non-stop fear porn, exaggeration and misinformation.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:45am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Totally agree. I walk in Christchurch without a mask and have had people cross the road to avoid me. I had someone in a supermarket snap at me that I was less than 2 metres from her. And this is in the south island that has not had a case for 12 months.
      
      Both behaviours I just cited are irrational.
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:30pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    There is plenty of visual evidence of the “terror” instilled in the NZ citizenry
    
    Every time you see someone wearing a mask while driving a car,
    Every time you see someone wearing a mask while walking outdoors tens if not hundreds of metres from the nearest person,
    Every time someone reports another person for not wearing a mask,
    Every time someone on social media “calls out” another person for not wearing a mask when they feel they ought…
    
    NZ, truly a nation of terrified quislings – ihre papiere bitte
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:52am
  - CaptainCompromise
    
    Systematically restricting all citizens movements based on their obedience to the government, without due process I might add, has historically proved bad for everyone 100% of the time in the last 110 years.
    
    You say no-one is terrified of Covid that you know of. Great. What about when the govt and media decide we need to apply the system to something they are worried about? Terrorism? Political opposition? Protesting? Climate change? Racism? Going to certain places on the Internet? Saying mean things? If they’re willing to bar people from society because they choose not to get vaccinated against a mild disease, what else will it be used for?
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:52am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I sleep very well. Thanks for asking. In the case of last night I’m not sure if the elixir of this lovely rest was the fine single malt, or the delicious prospect of you turning up early with freshly sharpened gums.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:54am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      John’s got a name KK, you’ve got a burrow.
      
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      September 25, 2021 9:15am
      - Cinematic
        
        How does that change the content of a comment? For all we know Brian McDonald is a handle.
        
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        September 25, 2021 9:19am
      - krazykiwi
        
        … and you have a record of killing innocent people. Having a burrow is, competitively speaking, something to be proud of.
        
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        September 25, 2021 9:24am
      - Brian McDonald
        
        When all else fails eh KK? But no comment on being a passionate herder. What a real f up any Government would have been with you involved – unless it was into eaves-dropping whilst nesting on an egg.
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:31am
    - David Garrett
      
      KK: “…turning up early with freshly sharpened gums”…Oh I like that Sir; I like that very much.
      
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      September 25, 2021 9:16am
      - Bluegrass
        
        Is that similar to being savaged by a sick sheep?
        
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        September 25, 2021 2:33pm
  - Inandout
    
    JP. I experienced ‘horror’ on the face of some young and heavily masked woman exiting from a takeaway. Because there was not the regulated two metre spacing between us she almost freaked out as she tried to open the door. I could almost sense her hyperventilating. And yes while out walking (unmasked of course) I have had other walkers crossing the road ot avoid me. Modern NZers are by their very nature pliable and a wonderful subject for politicians to play with.
    
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    September 25, 2021 8:55am
  - Spoff
    
    The entire passport issue is about compulsion.
    No government has a right to compel any citizen to undergo a medical procedure that contains risk – full stop.
    
    “The Testimonies Project was created to provide a platform for all those who were affected after getting the covid-19 vaccines, and to make sure their voices are heard, since they are not heard in the Israeli media.
    
    We hope this project will encourage more and more people to tell their story.”
    https://www.vaxtestimonies.org/en/
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:30am
  - rouppe
    
    Actually quite a few people were shuffling with eyes averted in the restaurant last night
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:38am
  - Opie
    
    Ask the people wearing masks outside and making their children do the same, as they creep around the streets hiding from covid being blown in on a 15 knot wind.
    
    They are terrified and have been led that way by a PM who wont accept one 90 year dying
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:41am
    - MCos
      
      If you speak Thai you could get into a boisterous discussion about wearing masks in the street with my wife.
      She never listens to our PM, but all sorts of info coming out of Thailand where a lot more than one person dies from covid every hour.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:29am
      - WaveyDavey
        
        So 1/65th of the number that die every hour then?
        
        How many were likely fairly soon to die from other causes? Excess deaths is the important fact that you omit in your scaremongering
        
        For context 555,000 (on average) die each year in Thailand
        
        A death an hour for an entire years (which of course won’t be the case) is 8,500 deaths
        
        8,500 deaths is 1.5% – not great but not the apocalypse either
        
        That 1.5% would take Thailand’s annual mortality rate from 7.92 per thousand to 7.93 per thousand – clearly terrifying…
        
        FYI Thailand’s mortality rate in 2015 was 7.4/1000 – ie 518,000 died 5 years ago.
        
        Where was the terror of an extra 37,000 deaths last year compared to 2015?
        
        https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/THA/thailand/death-rate
        
        BTW Thailand’s predicted death rate for 2041 (prediction nothing to do with Covid) is 11.7/1000 (820,000 deaths). That’s an extra 300,000 deaths above 2020’s figure
        
        As ever: Big Number Scare Little Kiwi
        
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        September 25, 2021 6:46pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        Further…
        
        The global death rate is 7.7/1000
        The global population is 7,800,000,000
        
        That equates to 601m deaths
        
        Covid globally has killed 4.55m over 18 months
        
        Even if they were EXTRA deaths that’s a mere 0.5% increase in the global death rate
        
        That rate is about the same as 2006 – were you terrified then? BTW the death rate in 1971 was 12.3, so pro rata, at that rate we would be seeing 960m deaths or about 350m more than today
        
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        September 25, 2021 6:59pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Pro or Con masks ? Because all the world wearing masks won’t save a single life, no matter how much the Phillies want it to be so.
        
        If you want idiocy though, the Skifields are compelled to have skiers wear “masks” in lift queues, and it seems perfectly acceptable to use a piece of Lycra which have the filtering impact of a piece of crochet. Why flaming bother. It isn’t for health reasons, so what is it about our fascist authorities that they insist on such lunacy ?
        
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        September 25, 2021 8:00pm
    - Observer of Life
      
      Agree Opie.. disgusting these parents are passing this perceived fear onto their innocent children. All thanks to the fear Cindy has instilled in them.
      
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      September 25, 2021 1:40pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You are missing the point. The government would have the power to seriously screw over the 20 percent of people who will probably never be vaccinated. I have no issue with a bar owner deciding to only accept vaccinated customers. That is quite different to the government requiring all bar owners to do so. I would like the government to roll out the vaccines and remove all restrictions at the border and in society.
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:45am
    - krazykiwi
      
      On this point we fully agree. If the provider of some public service (cafe, library, shop) wants to discriminate then let them do so in light of well understood human rights and civil liberties which we currently enjoy. My primary issue is with the state compelling public service providers to become enforcers of diktats that already breach our human rights and/or the state rolling back these rights ‘for our own good’
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:28am
      - cmm
        
        KK: I must pull you up on something.
        
        A shop and cafe are private enterprises. As far as I’m concerned the owner of the shop can make any rules for their shop that they choose.
        
        On Monday only sell to people wearing pink hats. Fine. They’ll lose business and likely fail.
        
        Almost all libraries are a different matter because they are tax/ratepayer funded. That means they do not have the right to make arbitrary rules and deny their services to people they don’t like. They are protected from business pressures.
        
        Of course in your main point I agree. It would be a very different matter if the state forced the pink hat on Mondays rule.
        
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        September 25, 2021 2:35pm
    - Spoff
      
      How ludicrous can it get?
      Does the “vaccine” work?
      If the answer is yes (and we know it is not) then the “vaccinated ” have nothing to fear from the unvaccinated. Co-mingling presents no threat.
      
      If the answer (rightly) is no, vaxed and unvaxed are in the same boat, segregation offers no safeguard.
      
      I have no argument with peckerheads who bar entry to the unvaxed. In fact I welcome easy identification of enterprises I can then avoid – forever.
      When the hysteria finally dies down, they will be the losers for, even among those who have chosen to take the jab for whatever reason, there is a large subset who do not agree that others should be compelled.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:34am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        What if 80 percent of hospitality venues require vaccination for entry? Which I think is likely. Are you going to avoid them forever, just to make a point?
        
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        September 25, 2021 6:36pm
      - Spoff
        
        “What if 80 percent of hospitality venues require vaccination for entry? Which I think is likely. Are you going to avoid them forever, just to make a point?”
        
        Yep.
        Mind you, having built a well known one and run it for 25 years along with a World-class restaurant, I’ve had about enough of such venues so it is easy for me to forgo them in my seventies.
        I do think however, that when the damage is assessed, and the utter futility of the reaction known, there will be blowback against those who mindlessly destroyed our economy and the lives of thousands – at the behest of a virus that has an Infected Fatality Rate in the same range as that of the seasonal ‘flu which we have tolerated for generations. There is no escaping that fact.
        This is a long read but I recommend it:
        https://www.juliusruechel.com/2021/09/the-snake-oil-salesmen-and-covid-zero.html
        
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        September 25, 2021 9:18pm
    - Brian McDonald
      
      It’s already happening, Benedict. Passing over the internal borders requires proof of a covid test in the last 7 days for essential workers and a negative Covid test in the last 3 days for others crossing the border with permission. Some police scan the code on the back of the licences, who is going to oppose something similar soon becoming proof of vaccinations in this environment? It won’t be transport operators or airlines.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:41am
    - MCos
      
      It would be fun if hospitals required proof of vaccination before you could come inside.
      As of right now 6% of infected people have been hospitalized.
      Depending on your point of view that figure will reduce considerably the more people are vaccinated.
      (The doomsayers reckon it won’t, of course, or that vaccination will increase that number.)
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:35am
    - cmm
      
      “The government would have the power”
      
      No. They already have that power and are abusing it.
      
      Of course it is only going to get worse from here.
      
      By completely dominating the flow of information and disinformation, they are preventing people from being rational. That is leading to the beginnings of persecution of unvaccinated people.
      
      People are being pressured into compliance because they know that they will be ostracised and blamed when granny dies.
      
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      September 25, 2021 2:41pm
  - Homas
    
    Yeah, no-one’s been terrified. It’s standard practice for the Police to turn a blind eye to illegal roadblocks with the documented involvement of gang members. Normally that sort of thing is considered a laid-back level of “prudent concern” I suppose?
    
    Just keep that gaslight burning John.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:19am
- Ra Henare
  
  and lets not forget 90% is just a madeup number, there is no science behind it.
  
  I have absolutely NO FAITH in predictions from the dickhead modeler. Like weather forecasts for next month. Guesses!! Provably inaccurate.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:42am
  - oldfella
    
    Ra, did you see this jaw-dropper today from the Dom Post editorial re believing the modellers.
    The showdown between Hendy and Jones has revealed once again, as if we needed reminding, that no health emergency has been politicised quite like this one. The more important point, though, is that some of the best minds in the world are focused on Covid and its likely impact, and even they cannot agree, leaving politicians to make literally life and death decisions on incomplete and conflicting information.
    Scepticism is healthy but kneejerk distrust is not. The best response is to act as if the Te Pūnaha Matatini numbers are right, even if they are wrong. The underlying message is what matters.
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126484456/doomsday-or-reality-in-the-covid19-numbers
    So, never mind the ‘truth’. It’s the sentiment that counts. Or something like that. /s
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:30am
    - Paulus
      
      Do not speak Maori so do not understand this oldfella particularly the Maori numbers comment as do not have a clue what you refer to.
      
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      September 25, 2021 1:43pm
- CaptainCompromise
  
  This is what I’ve been saying for a while now: If you’re looking for a conspiracy, vaccines probably aren’t it, but the vaccine passports definitely are.
  
  Governments around the world in lock-step with one another are willing to institute a system where certain citizens are excluded from society based on the existential threat of a disease that kills between 1 in 500-1000 people on average, with the average persons risk being between 1 in 1000-10,000. For me the risk of dying of Covid is about the same as 2 weeks of driving my car. Once they’ve got this system in place there are a hundred other things that are much more dangerous they can apply this to.
  
  Driving, food choices, entertainment choices, where you shop, what you buy, who you pay, who you meet, where you meet, how you speak, where you go, what payment methods you use, who you support politically, anything to do with climate change and racism, literally anything where the actual risk is marginally more than zero will be able to be controlled with enough media propaganda and the passport. If you think that’s far fetched, look at the social credit system in our buddy China.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:45am
- Surely Knott
  
  The PM can’t give a scientific answer, a health answer or a straight answer to this latest breach of sovereignty over your own body and medical choices.
  
  Reason 1. Taking away liberties to encourage experimental vaccination “”Having panned around now, I can see how they can fit into a toolbox. The other thing we’re seeing is some countries have used them initially for a period of time. It has helped increase vaccination rates and then they have not had to continue using them.”
  
  Reason 2. Unclear. I don’t even know what this means….. “You might have some day to day measures, so you give a little bit every day so as not to have lockdowns every once in a while. It doesn’t have to be a huge departure from freedom.”
  
  Reason 3: I can’t understand this either. “”We’re not just saying 90 for the sake of it. 90 is what makes life feel more normal. And I think that’s what people are looking for. They’re saying what is going to make the difference to us in getting back to a way of life that doesn’t have the anxiety that everyone has had for a year and a half.””
  
  Even the ultimate spin meister is struggling to explain this massive breach of civil liberties because there is no health or safety reason . They don’t say to stop spread because they know the vaccine doesn’t stop spread. When Denmark put the restrictions in place maybe the knowledge on transmission was different. There is no scientific reason, if there is could she please state it clearly. .
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:46am
  - Spoff
    
    “in getting back to a way of life that doesn’t have the anxiety that everyone has had for a year and a half.”
    If you’ve got a wild dog coming into your yard every day it is probably a good idea to stop feeding it.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:40am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Selective amnesia again KK? I remember flattening the curve which did happen. And it wasn’t a social contract for you at any time because I also remember you and CMM ranting about herd immunity levels needing to be around the 30 to 40% mark of the population having been infected which in fact over a year later hasn’t happened anywhere resulting in herd immunity.
  The only consistent thing about you is the squawking and b..sing.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:08am
  - Simon
    
    Lol – I recall how Brian had thought Cindy had beaten covid, the economy was fine and then the vaxxs were 95% efficient.
    
    For NZ its not even half time for covid.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:16am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “The only way we get our freedoms back is by refusing to comply en masse with draconian diktats…..”
  
  Sadly it ain’t going to happen kk for following:
  
  – Absolute majority in parliament plus undisclosed pre-election policy agenda
  – A massive lie that “they would work for all NZ’ers” that 50% of electorate still believe
  – A compliant DGOH with massive powers of coercive proclamation and a CoP more than happy to enforce them
  – A massive,well paid propaganda machine
  
  The damage done in under 12 months is horrendous and who knows what else could come out in the next 24.
  
  I don’t believe that we will see anti-apartheid or waterfront strike type protest and political opposition can be brushed off with the willing help of their propaganda machine hacks.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:12am
- surfing
  
  Your error is to ignore that unvaccinated people do no harm to others.
  
  And people have a right to be safe from others.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:51am
- Bob
  
  Krazykiwi, perhaps you could spend you time convincing the NZ media that journalism is about reporting ALL sides of a political debate; not just the one side that has given them $105 mill and counting.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:01am
Vory v zakone

News Quick reads/Rise of the people

_Clashes have broken out between police and anti-lockdown protesters at the Shrine of Remembrance War Memorial in Melbourne, Australia. Over 200 arrests have been reported.
_ Australia: Queensland Police to be suspended without pay if they don’t get a COVID-19 vaccine within the next two weeks.
_Courageous Whistleblower Alleges China “Intentionally” Released COVID At Military Tournament In October 2019
_ “Do NOT Allow Them to Inject Your Children”, BioTech Analyst Issues Chilling Warning- by Karen Kingston
_Megadeth Rocker Dave Mustaine Tells Audience ‘We Have The Power To Push Back Against Tyranny.. Mustaine has millions of followers dating back over 30 years
_Sweden to lift virtually all #COVID19 restrictions from September 29, scraps vaccine passport plans (for now), the Public Health Agency announced at a press
_Supreme Court of NY has dismissed the lawsuit against @RGiuliani !!!
_Ongoing huge protests in Melbourne against Pharma-Fascism and DNA manipulating „control-Vaccine
_No jab no job!!! Carers protesting mandatory jabs in Liverpool
_Thousands of Swiss residents have taken to the streets throughout September – protesting the country’s mandatory health pass. Riot police shoot rubber bullets at anti-health pass protesters in Bern, Switzerland, SRF News reports
_WORLD BOMBSHELL: Leaked DARPA document, DRASTIC analysis confirms attack on humanity using aerosolized skin penetrating nano particle spike proteins
_Congressman Paul Gosar drafts lette to the- U.S Department-of-health
_Fauci’s agency caught funding another study involving controversial organization reportedly involved in Chinese COVID-19 research
_Half of America gearing up to wage legal war against Biden over unconstitutional covid vaccine mandates.
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September 25, 2021 8:01am
hookerphil

Personally I will be operating on the mantra, “Passport or my money, You cannot have both.”
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September 25, 2021 8:18am
Ruawai

Let’s see National MP’s lobbying for more exemptions across the border and also lower lockdown levels for NZ. Tell NZ National would use more logic such as negative test and you can cross a border for any reason. There are currently rules with no logic.
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September 25, 2021 8:22am
Tomtoddy

So kk, do you have a state demanded document with a number and a photo linked to a state controlled data base for merely trotting off to Aussie?

Do you head down the street to the supermarket in your car with a card in your wallet with a a number and a photo linked to another state controlled database?

Being deveil’s advocate – what is different about a Covid passport? Our passports and driver licenses are gross infringements on our freedom to travel except, collectively we have decided our society is better managed with these intrusions.

Is a Covid passport not just a similar intrusion but on balance something we should accept for the wider good? Asking for a friend, of course!!
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September 25, 2021 8:23am
- krazykiwi
  
  I have no problem with official documentation. A passport is a very important document in that it represents an agreement between sovereign nations about your rights under various international treaties. I also have no problem with a foreign state demand to see evidence of vaccination as a condition of entering their country.
  
  But I have a big, big problem with this:
  
  Lithuanian citizens without an ‘Opportunities Pass’ are barred from:
  
  – activities of sport clubs, wellness and health, spa and recreation centres;
  
  – shopping at non-essential stores and shopping centres larger than 1500 sq m;
  
  – hairdressers and beauty salons;
  
  – catering facilities, restaurants, cafes, bars, nightclubs and other indoor entertainment venues;
  
  – commercial and non-commercial cultural, entertainment, sports events which gather more than 500 people;
  
  – using libraries for anything but exchanging books;
  
  – using technical repairs or services where the contact takes more than 15 minutes, including banking and insurance services;
  
  – visiting patients in medical facilities or senior care/residential homes, unless terminally ill or children younger than 14 years;
  
  – students from staying in residence premises or entering universities;
  
  – parents from entering school premises.
  
  Restrictions on public transport are in government plans, subject to adequate control provision.
  
  Use of health services depends on individual institutions. Some outpatients have been refused services, whilst the footage from one pharmacy went viral on social media, showing a pharmacist refusing to sell medication needed for a 12-month-old child because the parent had no OP.
  
  Go on an tell me that no one in power wants to see this here? Anyone?
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:33am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    I am just debating the issue. I am as wedded to freedom as anyone in this blog. However I also vote for consistency and oppose hypocrisy.
    
    Reality is we trade freedom for convenience and for community good. For me a driver’s license is a marginal call. The value claimed is over-rated. There a many people driving around Auckland who do not have a license and it is debatable whether that are any bigger problem than those who buckle to government edict and have their personal details on a bit of plastic and held in a state file.
    
    I can see little difference between a driver’s license and a Covid license on the basis of first principles. A person in a state dictated uniform can stop me going along my street in my car – a gross impingement of my freedom. What is different from a person outside a shop stopping me entering because I do not have state mandated piece of paper?
    
    Both pieces of paper are saying the community good outweighs my claim for freedom. Or are you going to cut up your driver’s license, kk?
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:19am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I’m keen to respond properly but have to check out until later today. Now, where is that mask? I need to buy some milk and bread 🙂
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:36am
    - Surely Knott
      
      “Both pieces of paper are saying the community good outweighs my claim for freedom.” –
      1. How does the vaccine give community good? – It doesn’t stop transmission.
      2. What about putting other community good information on the passport. Why don’t all criminals have to display a passport when they shop and use public facilities. – in fact the last known terrorist was allowed to enter supermarkets and stab people without showing documents of his criminal past. What about pedophiles and sex offenders. Can we get them on this passport scheme.
      3. A lot of focus on unvaccinated and their harm to society but what about the people this gain of research virus released into the world.. Why aren’t the mob going after the big guys anymore and demanding accountability. What about truth to power. What about gain of function labs. What further scrutiny is being put on them. Why are we still allowing gain of function research in NZ.
      But yeah, look at the bunny. Let’s make unvaccinated eat outside on the street. Well that’s ok because the freedom loving crowd will be out there. Best to keep all the authoritarians separated.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:42am
  - Sacha
    
    Hmmm.
    I wonder if I could get a ‘passport’ even though I am unvaccinated, but have a positive antibody test result?
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:26am
    - Weetbix3ways
      
      I wondered this too, as I am fairly certain I had Covid in the US last year. I discovered that the antibody tests are not allowed here in NZ, so no legal means of doing this.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:07am
  - Observer of Life
    
    KK: Well well.. 4 downtickers that are keen on the idea. Love to know who they are.
    
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    September 25, 2021 6:05pm
- dcrane
  
  It is similar in principle but not in degree. The domestic “vaccine passport” will be easily exploited and expanded into massive constraints on civic freedom.
  
  Most importantly, there is no great public good to be accomplished here. These vaccines unfortunately allow far too much covid spread for them to eliminate the disease.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:35am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    dcrane, that raises two different arguments. Useful arguments but different. One is the technical robustness of a vaccine passport and the other a question of whether the vaccine is any good.
    
    I am more interested in the principles involved. kk and his uptickers reject the idea based on the principle of freedom – something that has inestimable value. So what about a driver’s license?
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:09am
    - dcrane
      
      A drivers’ licence requirement is a restriction on freedom, but the work to satisfy the rule happens once, for the most part, and early in life, requiring only a fee to top up every certain number of years, so we’re talking about something that is drastically less onerous than what the domestic green pass idea is becoming in some societies right now (and likely will further exceed in the future). It further does not involve anything as invasive as a medical treatment/drug in most cases. Thus, my comment that it is similar in principle but not in degree.
      
      Other thoughts – the auto transport system presents a large hazard to society, one in which reckless or inexperienced participants can and will cause death or injury to others much more easily than with covid, in my opinion. And with few exceptions the only people who might die as a result of catching the virus from an unvaccinated person will be people who themselves chose not to be vaccinated. Nobody can protect themselves from inexperienced drivers to a degree that compares with the degree to which one can use the vaccines to protect oneself from covid.
      
      Also, people learning to drive are most often young, essentially students, while the decision to vaccinate or not is largely taken by adults who are full citizens.
      
      All of these decisions are matters of degree. Our society could survive without a drivers’ licence requirement as well. It is up to the citizenry (in theory!) to judge how much freedom to surrender in exchange for assumed collective gain.
      
      I think it will be a huge error if we accept the creation of a mandatory domestic health pass.
      
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      September 25, 2021 10:40am
      - Dairy Flat
        
        I think you may undervalue the NZ driver license. It is a de facto identity card, make no mistake, and was adopted to function thus due the very high percentage of individuals in this country who drive. It was relatively easy to extend it’s function with minimal objections as a license was required to drive a motor vehicle and is was a simple matter to add photo ID. This is not a conspiracy theory and is not difficult to confirm.
        
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        September 25, 2021 12:45pm
      - cmm
        
        Dairy: There is nowhere where you are required to provide a driver’s license – except for the purposes for which it was intended – proving you have the training etc to drive.
        
        It is fair enough asking people to prove that they have various skills – sufficient for them to be allowed on the road.
        
        It would be quite another matter if a drivers license was demanded for some other purpose (eg. going into a sports arena).
        
        Whee people need to prove their age, a driver’s license may be used, but other forms of ID are Ok too.
        
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        September 25, 2021 2:27pm
      - dcrane
        
        Dairy: For what it’s worth, the fact that the license functions so well as an ID card in other arenas is another factor that adds to our willingness to put up with the system in the first place.
        
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        September 25, 2021 2:42pm
Yvette

Data collected from 18 states between March and August suggest the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine reduces the risk of being hospitalized with covid-19 by 91% in the first four months after receiving the second dose. Beyond 120 days, however, that vaccine efficacy drops to 77%. [1]

So an estimated 3.9% of New Zealand’s population are now due a booster shot, and that number increases each day by the total that was fully vaccinated back 120 or so days ago. And what is most ironic and most dangerously concerning is that those now due booster shots are those highest on the priority list that saw them vaccinated first.

They, for their employment, age, ethnicity or medical condition were first but indeed it seems “The first shall be last and the last shall be first” (excuse the probably irrelevant Biblical reference, but it does express the situation). I appreciate the Government would see the need to vaccinate the most exposed or vulnerable first, but the conundrum is that they are now becoming vulnerable again as their vaccination wains.

[1] https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/sep/19/report-sees-drop-off-in-vaccines-efficacy/
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September 25, 2021 8:24am
washo

On an entirely different topic – there have been two stories in Stuff about the AFL in the last two days. I am pleasantly shocked and stunned. Go Bulldogs!
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September 25, 2021 8:27am
Maggy Wassilieff

Another damning report on the delivery of Mental Health in NZ has appeared…

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/andrew-little-admits-ministry-of-health-struggled-to-deliver-on-mental-health-as-review-finds-lack-of-accountability.html
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September 25, 2021 8:30am
- PhilBest
  
  This is classic, really – for all the lip service to mental health being such a problem over the last few years, who cared about this on its own potentially being worse than Covid if we over-reacted to Covid?
  
  We don’t report on suicides for a good reason. It might prompt more suicides. Why does this reason not also apply on principle to campaigns of propaganda designed to induce mass hysteria? Can we get to see one day, leaked or hacked info on suicide rate trends? Because there is no reason to believe any official narrative about it “not being a problem”, this is something they are on principle, long since, allowed to lie about. Some honest researchers have been allowed to blow the whistle on child suicide attempts – what more of the iceberg is underwater and invisible?
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:47am
- mandk
  
  Mental health is likely to be just one of the costs of lockdown. Many of the costs might take years to manifest.
  
  I wonder how many people will have have had their cancers metastacised because they haven’t been able to see an oncologist. That’s just one example.
  
  And how many people will have lost their businesses and ultimately their homes?
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:09am
BAM

How much money has the NZ herald been given by the government to run their Covid 90% vaccination campaign?

Since they’ve started, there hasn’t been a bad word said about the government while it’s just been straight out hostility against National on everything.

Buying off the countries media with taxpayers money must be a criminal offence, surely?
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September 25, 2021 8:31am
- cmm
  
  They said it was an idea they came up with.
  They might be telling the truth or they might not.
  If they did come up with the idea they no doubt pitched it to Cindy’s mob for funding.
  
  Should this really have one of those “Sponsored article” banners that they put on infomercials?
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:03am
Tasman Terror

Kiwicare.
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September 25, 2021 8:37am
westernScientest

I dont even know what to make of this:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126470732/more-real-estate-agents-than-homes-for-sale-in-nz
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September 25, 2021 8:43am
Maggy Wassilieff

What happens if our PM’s luck runs out?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/commentisfree/2021/sep/24/once-covid-world-beaters-the-mood-in-new-zealand-is-changing-and-jacinda-ardern-knows-it
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September 25, 2021 8:43am
- PhilBest
  
  Et, Tu, Guardian….? Then fall, Jacinda!
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:47am
- PeeJay
  
  read this yesterday and had to do a double check on what newspaper i was reading! The guardian allowing a somewhat negative view of Ardern???
  
  I wonder if we are starting to see the tide turn on Ardern? There’s been a few articles lately that have not been as friendly in tone. Sure, we are still getting the usual crap from most of the media, but the tone seems to be getting a bit more critical lately. Must be time for a wedding surely?
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:54am
  - Paulus
    
    Assume the Marae is ready in Gizzie, stocked with legal Kai, and the overseas media have special exemption to attend.
    Can’t wait.
    
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    September 25, 2021 2:20pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      I think the Bushmere Arms would be a shoe-in.
      
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      September 25, 2021 5:11pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, what happens is that she probably won’t get the Nobel Prize in a fortnight. Her Twitterati may fume but the world moves on.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:01am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Jacinda get a Nobel Prize? For what?
    
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    September 25, 2021 4:06pm
    - Inandout
      
      Peace I believe.
      
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      September 25, 2021 5:52pm
- dave_c_
  
  Mmm – very good article Maggy..
  My concern is that if Ardern realises her strategy is doomed, and events show that, it will be the nature of the ‘backlash she may unleash, which is likely to be worse than the impositions/strategies used ‘to-date’.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:03am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    ‘Backlash?’ Just as the nasty Clark and Cullen did. Throw the toys out of the cot
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:54am
- Yvette
  
  Maggy Wassilieff – What happens if our PM’s luck runs out?
  
  Ardern’s luck may be dissipating right now –
  The 4.2 million people presently eligible to be vaccinated – those over 12 years of age – is 84% of New Zealand’s 5 million population.
  So, 90 percent of that 84 percent eligible, is only 75.6 percent of the whole population.
  (4.2m / 5m = 84%, x 0.9 = 75.6%)
  
  And of that utmost possible 75% (if 100% eligible got vaccinated and they don’t start on under 12s), if the effacy of vaccinations waining after 120 days or so, those most endangered through work, or vulnerable through age or medical condition, and so those prioritised to be vaccinated first, are now those who are becoming again vulnerable.
  
  Jacinda’s luck may be running out. The corner Ardern has painted herself into is now due a second coat.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:22am
- Ruahine
  
  Do not be surprised if there should suddenly appear
  in about the third week of November a couple of ‘mystery’ cases of Covid in both the North and South Islands.
  A bit like how it was deemed necessary to forbid Anzac Day participation.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:49am
Maggy Wassilieff

Dr Reti outlines the inadequacies in our ICU capacity that have developed under Labour.

Hospital ICU capacity was so under-prepared for this Delta outbreak that the Auckland DHB was forced to issue an urgent callout for 30 ICU nurses on 1 September.

“This is not surprising when answers to my latest written questions have disclosed that 15 vital nurses from Auckland ICU resigned in May, June and July. I’m told they went to Australia due the Government’s pay freeze.

As well as losing critical nurses, the Government has also allowed ICU beds to fall from the outbreak last year. Every ICU beds needs 5.3 nurses but the Minister has suddenly decided the ratio is 1.1

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2109/S00217/multiple-icu-failings-from-a-distracted-minister.htm
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September 25, 2021 8:50am
- krazykiwi
  
  The only rational response to seeing Covid become endemic overseas would have been to bolster our medical system in preparation.
  
  Ardern’s government did the opposite.
  
  I guess it’s hard to leverage a crisis when a competent, well-equipped health system stops one forming in the first place.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:58am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes totally agree. It was like they believed their own bullshit on elimination, high vaccination and “herd immunity”. Maybe the PM still believes it.
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:05am
    - Loddenthinks
      
      Well you do Benedict, so why shouldn’t Ardern?
      
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      September 25, 2021 9:55am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        I do what? Believe in herd immunity? You must be thinking of someone else.
        
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        September 25, 2021 10:49am
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Far from bolstering it in preparation, they have failed to move a muscle even in the year and three quarters since the plague hit. They choose control over freedom at every opportunity – which of course is why productivity is lousy, they can’t afford decent roads and healthcare, and the only boom industry is capital gain speculation.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:10am
  - Paulus
    
    Will be ok now that the new two Health Authorities have been formed.
    One for Maori and the other for the plebs.
    Guess which one will get the money and any facilities they may need.
    After all Nanaia Mahuta’s sister is now in charge.
    Not sure how much knowledge re Heath she has – heard there were no medical professionals on either Boards.
    So will be allright until runs out of staff and money.
    
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    September 25, 2021 2:28pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Do the words Rabbits and Leuttices remind you of anything? Memories of Donna Awatere Hauta spring to mind for me.
      
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      September 25, 2021 3:40pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      These 2 medical doctors on each :
      
      For Health NZ…
      Curtis Walker and Karen Poutasi are qualified medical doctors (and in Walker’s case… also a veterinarian)
      
      For Maori Health Authority:
      Sue Crengle and
      Mataroria Lyndon
      
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      September 25, 2021 3:47pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      If you think the money is intended to improve health outcomes for “Maori”, you must have your head up your rectum. That money is purely intended to make yet another group of “indigenous representatives” very wealthy and satisfied people. Nanaia’s sister will see to that.
      
      Oh, there will be a few widely publicised stories about special treatment for some randomly (maybe, maybe not) ethnic person, but if the health status of Maori as a whole improves, how are they going to extort even more $$$ by crying racism ? This is just the creation of yet another gravy train, smart people will be investing in top-end SUV dealerships to sell those V8 powered crates to the newly enriched with consulting contracts on a whole laundry list of specious subjects.
      
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      September 25, 2021 8:29pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  What a mess.
  
  TBH the state of the New Zealand public sector will end up so dire that it will be beyond the capacity of a future government to fix it.
  
  I don’t see people with the ability of Tony Ryall, Joyce etc in the current National front bench. Hopefully David Seymour will have the opportunity to be a senior Minister along with 2 or 3 of his front bench.
  
  To fix New Zealand will require fast brutal medicine. For example brutally reversing policies like the three waters boondoggle, and the Maori Health Authority. And sacking 400000 public servants. And I sincerely believe that is required.
  
  David Seymour would be up for this. But not sure about Judith, Bishop etc.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:03am
  - PeeJay
    
    Any ‘fast brutal’ medicine administered to the public sector would see an immediate change of government at the following election. It’s a sad fact – Key, English and Joyce knew this fact all too well and probably why they pursued ‘hiring freezes’ and didn’t roll back things like WFF. Your average voter doesn’t go for extreme left or right – and extreme right is how it would be dressed up. Ardern has done well because she has a compliant media portraying her as centrist rather than the far left winger she obviously is. If Collins proposed such measures, you’d see an even bigger pile on than you see currently. Hell, ‘mother of all budgets’ is still dragged out now and again as an example of the far-right boogeyman without any recognition that extreme measures were required. I suspect if Seymour continues his rise, we might start to see a few hit jobs on him too.
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:31am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    BY – just watching/listening to Tova/Judith.
    .
    A while back Cindy ran away from a hostile Hosking and went to other soft light weight radio interviews. Only back once since.
    
    Judith stopped interviews but is now being interviewed by Tov. Either Tov’s had a lobotomy or there are new rules of engagement in place. Could make a difference.
    
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    September 25, 2021 9:50am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I watched it and was very impressed with Judith.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:29am
    - Bob
      
      I was most impressed with the STATESMAN like demeanour of Judith, something that we haven’t seen from a PM in the last four and ahalf years.
      Did anyone else notice that Judith was able to answer the questions without the need for semaphore arm waving, head nodding and facial grimaces; so refreshingly different.
      Even Tova was impressed, she was so civil; well most of the time, had a reversion to form towards the end, but quickly recovered, possibly prompted to by her management.
      
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      September 25, 2021 2:10pm
      - 70andstilllearning
        
        I watched snippets the first time while multi tasking here, but gave the video a full attention view later.
        Very refreshing I agree, even Tov was refreshing (well partially) so I’d modify my earlier quip to a ” partial lo….).
        Overall there’s obviously a strategic shift with caucus media communication policy, including I think some bottom lines in regard to acceptable media interviewer behavior rules.
        So:
        I’m itching to see how Jack Tame handles the new norm and:
        Can the rest of the caucus shadow spokespeople utilise the new strategy effectively?
        
        Final point, tonight’s 3 news covered the leadership topic early with some ( I thought) poetic license from the news reader and then followed much later with a very short video byte from Judith about vax passports. I think there’s a lot more water to go under the bridge before we get anything resembling media balance.
        
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        September 25, 2021 7:14pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Seymour is untested and untried. You are not helping get rid of Cindy by accepting then media promotion of Act.
    
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    September 25, 2021 4:11pm
- Yvette
  
  Maggi Wassilieff – the Government has also allowed ICU beds to fall from the outbreak last year.
  
  Woeful vaccination rates were one thing but when it became clear according to Ministry of Health figures that the numbers of ICU beds had been reduced from 358 beds in July last year to 284 today, there had been no increase in ICU staffing for 18 months, and the NZ Medical Association’s call a year ago for a co-ordinated national ICU strategy had been ignored, the Government’s indolence began to look scandalous. – https://www.newsroom.co.nz/govt-needs-a-new-story-on-covid Updated August 27, 2021
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:30am
- cmm
  
  Worse yet is that they have made it hard for medical staff to immigrate into NZ.
  
  Apart from CV19, professional people are more mobile than ever before. Medical staff can get jobs anywhere. Moving across the world is not significantly harder than moving to a different town.
  
  Thus we will always lose staff overseas, even if they are just doing a working OE for a few years. What is far more problematic is that many feel driven out and see no way back.
  
  The way to compensate is to attract staff from elsewhere and make it easy for them to come. Unfortunately they’re making it damn difficult.
  
  In March last year, the highly competent Canadian nurse that was looking after me was having a protracted battle with immigration trying to get residence. She likes NZ and wants to make it home but she can’t because of some bullshit bureaucracy.
  
  They should not be making it hard for her, they should be making it easy!
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:56am
  - Odakyu-sen
    
    The purpose of bureaucracy is to make the possible impossible.
    
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    September 25, 2021 10:23am
    - cmm
      
      Bureaucracy is there fore the benefit of the bureaucrats.
      
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      September 25, 2021 11:53am
- doggone7
  
  Until Labour got in, our health systems including ICU and infrastructure, were brilliant.
  
  The provision for a pandemic the same. Since they got in they have downgraded everything.
  
  There you go, I’ll package Dr Reti’s message, get it around his electorate and that should see him elected because Whangarei people will believe that. Won’t they?
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:08am
KevO'Brien

A fresh look at the WHO, its entanglement with the UN and William Gates Esq who controls a large part of the world from his windows.
It seems the UN has agreed to whatever the WHO says…

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2021/09/24/gavi-bill-gates-world-health-organization.aspx?ui=86f8f5d259f8d9624324098fcc73f6e8083c940b6c0efebe9ddb465cebd157b4&sd=20210904&cid_source=dnl&cid_medium=email&cid_content=art3HL&cid=20210924&mid=DM991003&rid=1273002232
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September 25, 2021 8:50am
rockape

This comment is not an incitement to violence so keep your knickers on Mods.
What would cause the biggest increase in popularity for the National Party, the untimely death of Jacinda Arden or the untimely death of Judith Collins?
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September 25, 2021 8:52am
I remember when

They have to be ‘environmentally friendly’ don’t they:
Our latest blades are 35 metres long.
Wind turbine blades last about 25 to 30 years, before needing to be replaced.
In the US there are an estimated 54,000 turbines at present with 164,000 blades.
Thousands of old blades are cut into pieces and go to landfills, wherethe fibre-reinforced plastic will never break down.
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September 25, 2021 9:02am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  windturbine blades graveyard.
  https://www.bbc.com/news/business-51325101
  
  The amount of energy required to repurpose them is very high…
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:56am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Saw an aerial photo of them being buried. They are huge. The little yellow thing is a bulldozer. Someone suggested standing them on end, 10M into the ground, building a Border Wall. Too simple.
  https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-02-05/wind-turbine-blades-can-t-be-recycled-so-they-re-piling-up-in-landfills
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:01am
- Master Mariner
  
  Large Wind Turbine blades have a shelf life of 15 years. Extremely Energy Intensive to Manufacture.
  
  Energy companies “Just Love:” this Green New Deal.
  
  8 1
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  September 25, 2021 12:35pm
  - kevn
    
    @MM… In the Shetlands the ‘windmills’ just fly apart in a shower of sparks.
    
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    September 25, 2021 4:58pm
- cmm
  
  ” Wind turbine blades last about 25 to 30 years, before needing to be replaced.”
  
  That would be a full service life.
  
  Unfortunately many give in long before that due to wind shears or ice causing imbalances etc. 35 metres of anything does not stand up well to high accelerations and unexpected forces/stresses.
  
  A steel roof is good for 50 years, but I expect there are quite a few much younger than that which are being ripped up in Canterbury today, or when we get 50cm of snow. Same basic deal with 35-year life on turbines.
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:17pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  They should be cut up and burned in incinerators (just like almost all garbage)- epoxy burns fine, and residual glass fiber can be melted down.
  
  There is a slow transition to carbon fiber happening, particularly in largest size where improved stiffness and reduced mass matters. Carbon fiber composites can be burnt easily enough.
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:31pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    There are indeed technical solutions to most of the problems contrarians imagine lurk within the transition to carbon-neutral technologies.
    
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    September 25, 2021 4:44pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      But very few economic technical solutions Mikey. But you wouldn’t care as public servants never have to pay for their failures.
      
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      September 25, 2021 8:39pm
lazza

I, (somewhat irrationally- “Go suck it up Yappies”) … relish the prospect of the Springboks (SA) getting their beans tonight … Did I mention “irrational”?

Sorry … and I know its stupid to generalise, but I find some-many? SA people to be a very disturbing … a strange unlovely blend.

In two very recent instances I have suffered from SA’s gratuitous rage, meted out, in my view (quite irrationally-arrogant) with behaviours somewhat unique to “them”.

Note; I do NOT and have not suffered from similar rudeness or worse from Asians or PI’s, Maoris, Ethiopians, Bengalis (in fact … often quite the reverse!)

“Arrogant” (misplaced superiority too) seems to sum up their (SA’s) default attitudes. I generalise of course.

Perhaps some SA people might respond.

This response also might provide an insight into their behaviour and enlighten us all to the stresses (a deranged SA immigrant Mother of 3!) … stresses that so affect their SA families and immigrant community.
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September 25, 2021 9:10am
- Matt Long
  
  I’ve yet to meet any SAs that are unpleasant people, no doubt they exist.
  I’ve met Kiwis that I thought were great people that other aquaintances have clashed with, often it says more about the other person.
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:27am
- cmm
  
  I grew up in South Africa and lived there for 30 years in a wide variety of places and conditions. I left the place 29 years ago and have never been back.
  
  South Africa is a violent place and it is reasonable to think that everyone coming from South Africa has had some pretty crazy things happen in their own lives (or that of their immediate family).
  
  In my case:
  * I was credibly threatened with death three times.
  * I shot someone (legally).
  * Two of my childhood playmates were done for murder (one was executed).
  * At least two close family members were robbed at gunpoint.
  * One was taken to a remote location, beaten up, stabbed and left in a ditch for dead (but somehow survived).
  * Family members’ houses have security gates that they lock each night. These are inside the house isolating the bedrooms from the rest of the house. They have woken at night to the sound of their house burgled while they were in it.
  * Family members have had numerous thefts, death threats etc.
  * Job losses when they were fired to give their jobs to black people.
  
  That’s pretty standard. Every family will have stories like that and it is just getting worse.
  
  On top of that, the whole government is stacked against them.
  
  Afrikaners have it worse for various reasons. Presidents from Mandela to Ramaphosa have openly sung “Kill the Afrikaner” and they don’t feel at all connected with anywhere else. Afrikaners are generally more argumentative and violent than English speaking South Africans.
  
  As a result, these are generally people that spend most of their time looking at anyone that they don’t know as a threat.
  
  Then those that have left feel both survivor’s guilt as well as feeling guilty that they have run away and deserted their people (as well as the ongoing worry that you’ll wake up to hear that another family/friend member was robbed/raped/beaten up/murdered/whatever).
  
  So, generally, these are people with a shorter fuse and more likely to lash out.
  
  Of course that does not mean any violence/threats to others should be condoned, but it might explain it somewhat.
  
  As in any discussions, these are generalisations. Individuals should be treated as they individuals – regardless of tendencies of the group as a whole.
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:30am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Very good comment, cmm.
    
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    September 25, 2021 4:41pm
raven

War Is Peace, Freedom Is Slavery, and Ignorance Is Strength in Orwell’s “1984”
https://owlcation.com/humanities/The-Meaning-of-War-is-Peace-Freedom-is-Slavery-and-Ignorance-is-Strength-in-Orwells-1984

The article above seems to draw on many themes that are happening right now in NZ:

“… the Party breaks down their ability to think rationally and makes citizens accept and believe anything they tell them, even if it is entirely illogical”

“These contradictions keep the citizens constantly off balance, so they are never sure of themselves or each other and must rely on the party for guidance as to how to live their lives”

“… the reader realised that there is actually no war at all. It is a made up fiction created by the Party just to keep the people in line. It is intended to keep their attention focussed elsewhere, so they do not realise how the Party is controlling their every thought and action”

“Absolute power corrupts absolutely. The government has grown to become omnipotent, writing its own version of reality by changing the content of history books, and making the people too fearful to think critically”

There’s also the themes of dobbing in your neighbours and family, the use of propaganda, and the daily announcements made by the Party.

Are we there yet?
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September 25, 2021 9:10am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Slowly but surely the dopey sheeple are accepting what the Govt says ‘is for your own good’
Welcome to South Venezuela/New Zimbabwe.
Wake up! you fools, the socialists are ruining your life
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September 25, 2021 9:11am
- MCos
  
  Piss off with you constant doomsday whining.
  
  Have you ever been to Venezuela or Zimbabwe?
  
  Ever since I can remember, stretching back to the Black Budget, there’s been wild eyed fools wailing that the current government is dragging the country down to wrack and ruin.
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:16pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    See what being a sheep does to you? You all turn into MCos types who can not debate, just insult as lefties do.
    Mods, if you delete this, you can delete the above comment from MCos as well, to be fair, OK?
    
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    September 25, 2021 3:20pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Getting the vaccine gets you back to normal?
I know it is crazy Joy Behar, but anyway,
https://rumble.com/vmx2nl-view-hosts-rushed-off-stage-on-air-after-testing-positive-for-covid.html?
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September 25, 2021 9:15am
Odakyu-sen

Our society has always found a balance between risk and reward.
We do not ban driving even though hundreds of productive citizens die in traffic accidents annually. Instead, we educate drivers, upgrade dangerous roads, and improve cars.

In recent years, governments in many so-called “free” countries have sponsored scary models designed to put a sense of existential fear into ordinary people. The government (with assistance from privately owned media companies in addition to state brodcasters) simultaneously suppresses opposing information while offering the people a “path to salvation.”

The trouble with the pathway to salvation is that the people must give up their wealth (through taxes) independence, freedom and self-responsibility to be “rescued.” When the majority of the voting population favor “safety and security” over freedom and independence, then governments will be emboldened to tighten the bonds even more.

Make people scared, and they will listen to you. Once they listen to your message, you can begin to change their way of thinking.

Fear is the key.

“The one permanent emotion of the inferior man is fear – fear of the unknown, the complex, the inexplicable. What he wants above everything else is safety.” — H. L. Mencken
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September 25, 2021 9:19am
I remember when

A Taranaki woman, who has been collecting rubbish on beaches for several years, is distressed at the number of single-use masks littering streets and beaches.
“I’m seeing them everywhere. so prolific, so quickly, it’s scary.”
She said 3 million throwaway masks are used globally every minute.
So there you are!
It’s a pandemic. Just as one looks to be finishing along comes another one.
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September 25, 2021 9:24am
- Fletch
  
  Probably more mask trash around than plastic bags. We’ll have to ban them… oh wait…
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:35am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  This is really funny, the zombies have now decided that there is a $15,000 fine for concealing your face while protesting in Melbourne, not sure but about $500 not to be wearing one, so you are much better to go down not wearing one.
  The zombies have just completely lost their minds, chucking people around like rag dolls.
  The nurses and teachers are now appearing and the cops have been told they must jibby jab.
  Looks like Danny boy and his zombies have a real headache on their hands. He had 2,000 watching him a on sky during his daily freak show, the unemployed Sri Lankan the Great Rukshan had 50,000 watching from the protests, 2.3 million watched the video on Monday. It would appear the Neo Nazis are not Neo Nazis, they are just regular people wanting a choice in life.
  
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  September 25, 2021 4:59pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Biden equips Border Patrol with immigrant friendly horses.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oznogxkd3qso13t/border%20hose.jpg?dl=0
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September 25, 2021 9:25am
Maggy Wassilieff

Our PM with her constant lockdowns reminds me of folks trapped in the depth of a depressive episode.

They’ve retreated from dealing with the day-to-day events that impinge on them and hunker down to a set limited routine and fail to deal with issues/problems that start to build up.
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September 25, 2021 9:27am
- Nickc2
  
  From Fish-n-Chips wrapper to controlling the destinies and prosperity or otherwise of five million peasants.
  She learned well, Hitler was a painter AFIK.
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:47am
  - oldfella
    
    @nickc2
    Before moving to Vienna, Hitler had already been rejected by the city’s Academy of Fine Arts. Though he had passed the initial exam in 1907, his drawing skills were “unsatisfactory,” the admissions committee decided.
    Years later, in his autobiographical manifesto Mein Kampf, Hitler claimed that the rejection struck him “as a bolt from the blue,” as he had been so convinced of his success.
    https://www.history.com/news/adolf-hitler-artist-paintings-vienna
    Maybe Cindy was a failed fish-n-chips wrapper, hence her move down into leftist politics? /s
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:45am
    - Nickc2
      
      Agree oldfella. Helen Clark identified as an artist as well. Her art though was limited to signing other people’s artwork.
      
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      September 25, 2021 12:48pm
- Master Mariner
  
  “reminds me of folks trapped in the depth of a depressive episode.”
  
  I personally think its somewhere between ” Alice in Wonderland” and Kafka’s “The Castle” .
  
  Thinking of it along these lines then ” Your sanity” returns.
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:41pm
Yvette

Taliban official: Strict punishment, executions will return
One of the founders of the Taliban and the chief enforcer of its harsh interpretation of Islamic law when they last ruled Afghanistan said the hard-line movement will once again carry out executions and amputations of hands, though perhaps not in public.

In an interview with The Associated Press, Mullah Nooruddin Turabi dismissed outrage over the Taliban’s executions in the past, which sometimes took place in front of crowds at a stadium, and he warned the world against interfering with Afghanistan’s new rulers.
… “No one will tell us what our laws should be. We will follow Islam and we will make our laws on the Quran.” [1]
______

But, from Submissions of the Islamic Women’s Council of New Zealand (IWCNZ) to the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Attack on Christchurch Mosques on 15 March 2019 –

153 … Ms Danzeisen said that if it was on the news at 7.00 pm the children would face the consequences at 8.30 am the next morning. She said that teachers had been known to ask Muslim children “Are you happy that such and such was attacked by ISIS?” and …  

231 [Ms Danzeisen] explained how Muslim youth and children were being harassed and that she would get up each morning to check the news to see if she had to prepare her children for increased harassment because of issues overseas, and that the Muslim community would be the first community to suffer if agencies got it wrong. [2]

So will local New Zealand Islamic organisations denounce the Taliban, Afghanistan’s new rulers, as being contrary to Islam as practiced here, although Afghan officials say, “We will follow Islam and we will make our laws on the Quran”

While “They are Us” how much do They agree with Them – and will They say so?

[1] https://www.tvnz.co.nz/one-news/world/taliban-official-strict-punishment-executions-return
September 24, 2021
[2] No link because the item seems de-platformed. This document was released before the Royal Commission Report but it now appears deleted from the Internet with Google searches terminating in an “Account Suspended” advice
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September 25, 2021 9:35am
- Tony Stuart
  
  And yet our Prime Minister gave them $3m of taxpayer funds; where is the outrage from the Green Party, especially Ms Ghahraman?
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:32am
- oldfella
  
  @yvette
  Taliban believed to have killed Afghan man waiting for result of NZ visa bid
  An Afghan man waiting to know if he could get a visa to join family in New Zealand has been killed trying to flee to Pakistan, a source says.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/immigration/126486667/taliban-believed-to-have-killed-afghan-man-waiting-for-result-of-nz-visa-bid
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:19pm
Billy

From the herald:

“Raiders stole a safe containing $4 million in cryptocurrency…”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/crypto-heist-raiders-steal-safe-containing-4m-in-cryptocurrency-from-westmere-home/PI3L5LMS6PCSVABJDYSW5O4YGA/

I’m no crypto expert, but was NZH caught by a prank? Crypto is digital and its not even held digitally in any one place, as far as I understand.

How exactly do you keep it in a safe?
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September 25, 2021 9:38am
- Odakyu-sen
  
  I assume that the safe held some device or a written-down key that would give someone access to a Bitcoin wallet.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:20am
- Ruawai
  
  Think they keep the passwords in a safe as without the password they lose the currency.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:29am
- cmm
  
  Crypto does not have to be stored in a wallet. The crypto itself is just a bit pattern (ie. a computer file) that could be stored anywhere (eg. on a USB drive).
  
  Only a dummy would store one copy of anything.
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:35am
  - Fletch
    
    I believe they are “digital wallets” or lockers such as Coldcard and Ledger. You can use a phone app but it’s recommended you use a device especially designed for the job. Ledger is more like a special USB stick with a tiny screen, etc
    
    https://shop.ledger.com/pages/hardware-wallets-comparison
    
    https://coldcardwallet.com/
    
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    September 25, 2021 12:30pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Beware, the rabid leftie trolls have arrived and it is only 9.40am
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September 25, 2021 9:40am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Let the downticks begin, bang bang bang
  
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  September 25, 2021 9:41am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Ok, if that’s what you want.
    
    5 16
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    September 25, 2021 9:44am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    To be honest Steve, I find it to be the second best feeling in the world…. knowing you’ve pissed some rabid lefty-loser off 😛
    
    14 4
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    September 25, 2021 10:28am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      What is the best feeling in the world?
      
      8 1
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      September 25, 2021 11:05am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        The best feeling is when they actually lose their shit totally and have a thermonuclear meltdown
        
        7 4
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        September 25, 2021 11:12am
      - MCos
        
        Thai food can do that to you
        
        6 2
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        September 25, 2021 12:57pm
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women
        
        3 2
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        September 25, 2021 2:21pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Urban, wasn’t that Cohen the Barbarian, before he got old and decided that a good set of teeth was better ?
        
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        September 25, 2021 8:45pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Just did that to 3 of them LOL
      
      2 4
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      September 25, 2021 11:11am
Jibber NO Jabber

Just wondering why Tova O’Brien is asking Judith Collins questions that she won’t ask of Jacinda Ardern or any Labour Party minister, is it because the media see Judith as a de-facto Prime Minister when the ~~sub~~Prime Minister won’t front the media?
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September 25, 2021 9:52am
- Bob
  
  Tova is positioning herself for employment in the National govt external affairs OE trips as a International Reporter, after 2023
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:14pm
Cassandra

When the medical elite – the “experts” – advocate for a lockdown and there’s a great deal of uncertainty about what has happened, it’s very difficult for politicians to do other than go along with the advice. So criticizing National and ACT is unreasonable. Nowhere in the world did political leaders go against the advice of their health staff and academics. Now that there is debate amongst the medics and we know much more about the virus is the time for contrary views. The evidence was insufficient initially for the extreme views expressed here. Was the execution of the lockdown satisfactory? Of course not. That’s where the criticism would be valid. Closing the butchers, failing to segregate the vulnerable, mismanaging the border – its a long list.
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September 25, 2021 10:25am
- Stu2
  
  “Nowhere in the world did political leaders go against the advice of their health staff and academics. ”
  
  Heard of Trump?
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:49am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Trump was smart as were his doctors offering real treatment.
    
    1 2
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    September 25, 2021 4:35pm
- dcrane
  
  The medical/scientific dimension was only part of the calculation. It was up to National and ACT to make sure that the values of a free society were adequately weighed – in part by calculating all of the other negative costs of lockdowns. I have seen little evidence of this analysis.
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:02pm
- I remember when
  
  Once the public agreement level for lockdown reached 75% there was no future in arguing alternative covid action.
  Public opinion had been decided and a thirty minute or one hour public relations tv presentation prevented reasoned debate.
  It was a ‘hiding to nothing’ territory.
  Decisions on the rights and wrongs of covid and the lockdowns is still some time in the future.
  Even then it will likely have enough provisos to justify whatever action.
  
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  September 25, 2021 1:14pm
Fletch

It’s funny now that Regeneron, the drug used by Trump and touted by him, has now been given a full on approval by the WHO and will be used to fight Covid worldwide. A bit slow to the party, but anything liked by Trump will always be frowned upon.
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September 25, 2021 10:43am
Tony Stuart

Another scoop from Michael Morrah from Newshub:

Police at border checkpoints don’t have to be tested or vaccinated for COVID-19

None of the nearly 300 police officers manning border checkpoints around Auckland are being tested – nor do they have to be vaccinated.

Health experts are astonished by the lack of protocols, saying vaccinations and regular testing of such staff is a “no-brainer”.

There are 10 police border checkpoints around Auckland, with 292 officers checking documents and conversing up-close with commuters.

A truck driver and a prisoner on bail, both carrying COVID-19, have passed through in the past week – but no testing or vaccination of staff is required.

“To have police at that border who are not vaccinated and who are not being regularly tested makes no sense at all,” says Auckland University epidemiologist Professor Rod Jackson.

“Totally flabbergasted – I mean, these are border workers.”

As we know, testing and vaccination can slow the spread. Auckland University Professor of Medicine Des Gorman says such police staff are performing high-risk essential roles.

“I’m surprised, I’m disappointed. At some stage our actions have to start matching our rhetoric,” he said.

Professor Gorman told Newshub he’d like to see weekly PCR testing of such staff and or daily rapid antigen tests.

Police say only officers working in places like managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) facilities or at the international airport must be vaccinated.

They say it’s not a requirement for staff at border checkpoints to be vaccinated.

So how many of those staff have had one dose, two doses, or no doses? Police say they do not hold that information. In other words, they don’t know.

Police say they “view the COVID-19 vaccination as an additional tool in the safety kit”, but Prof Jackson says “it is the main tool” and Prof Gorman says it’s necessary and essential.

Grant Robertson, Deputy Prime Minister, says vaccination is “very, very critical”.

https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/09/coronavirus-police-at-border-checkpoints-don-t-have-to-be-tested-or-vaccinated-for-covid-19.html

This simply confirms the view that we have got through Covid largely unscarred (apart from businesses) more by good luck than good management. If we are going to worry about borders, surely those manning the borders should be protected.
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September 25, 2021 10:46am
- oldfella
  
  Tony, TV3 news led with this last night at 6pm.
  More excellent work from Michael Morrah. The most credible journo on either channel at the moment.
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:51am
- dcrane
  
  Many of them are young and have relatively little covid risk. They should not be forced to get vaccinated, especially by incompletely tested vaccines.
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:00pm
  - sooty
    
    Border checkpoints wouldn’t be political rather than health related would they?
    
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    September 25, 2021 1:12pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Police should not be vaccinated?, sorry that is deluded.
    
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    September 25, 2021 6:40pm
    - dcrane
      
      Why should a young policeman be vaccinated any more than anyone else?
      
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      September 25, 2021 9:47pm
Maggie Pie

Well I’M seriously considering writing a book that tells the story of all the joy and happiness that has marked my life, and how I’m still coping with it 😀

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1441523358609416192
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September 25, 2021 10:52am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Just collate all your gems published here on KB..
  
  It’ll be a runaway best-seller.
  
  In fact, I’ll order a few advance copies now.
  
  11 3
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  September 25, 2021 11:01am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I’d buy your memoirs, Maggy, if your wrote them up. Three New Zealand lives in the shops atm that I must read are:
    Helen Kelly: Her Life
    Freyberg: A Life’s Journey
    After the Tampa: From Afghanistan to NZ
    
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    September 25, 2021 11:33am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Quick Chapter summary then MMA
      
      1. Life in the sandhills…. (an expose of what really happened amongst the Lupins of Castlecliff.)
      
      2. The horrors of Palmerston North ( A brief chapter – best left unread)
      
      3. The big smoke and domestic bliss
      (sophisticated life in the Capital)
      
      4. Sloth and Sun
      
      The End
      
      7 1
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      September 25, 2021 1:29pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Would that I were a publisher…
        
        1 6
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        September 25, 2021 1:34pm
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        Write Island Bay in there Maggie and I am good for a couple of signed copies!
        
        My experience with sand dunes is memorible for the same reason as a hay shed, uncomfortable over rated romantic claptrap
        
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        September 25, 2021 3:25pm
- Observer of Life
  
  Maggie P: My question to a book like that is WHY??? Who gives a shit about a TV reporter/presenter? It’ll be in the 5 for $20 pile soon enough.
  
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  September 25, 2021 7:16pm
Surely Knott

Australian Policeman speaks out,

https://vimeo.com/612584943
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September 25, 2021 11:07am
BAM

Why is Judith Collins continuously answering questions about her leadership?

Doesn’t she realise that it’s a lead-in question that gives the media another opportunity to just repeat old negative stories or compare her to Bridges?

If the media asks you this question, just say, “Look I’ve answered this a thousand times, if you’re just going to keep asking me about my leadership, let’s stop the interview here, because I’ve got far more important things to do”, the end.

Stop playing their game.
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September 25, 2021 11:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Daid before, Collins needs to HTFU, Trump style. :You are fake news – do the interview with someone else” Collins does not need these tossers
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:14pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    *Said Said Said ffs
    
    4 1
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    September 25, 2021 2:15pm
Chuck Bird

Did anyone else see Judith interiveiwed by Tova this morning and if so were you impressed as I was?
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September 25, 2021 11:40am
- BAM
  
  Maybe you want to go read the story that’s on their website
  
  https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/09/judith-collins-blames-covid-for-poor-polls-denies-mps-are-plotting-to-replace-her-with-simon-bridges.html
  
  Why is she talking to this O’Brien woman? FFS.
  
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  September 25, 2021 11:54am
  - Chuck Bird
    
    The same reason Cindy should be interviewed by Hosking.
    
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    September 25, 2021 12:57pm
    - BAM
      
      Yes, and what a huge impact it’s had on her popularity.
      Fuck me it’s about controlling the narrative, something National is doing a terrible job with.
      
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      September 25, 2021 1:23pm
  - lifesgood
    
    Judith handled that superbly. Tova is a nasty piece of work, isn’t she, but Judith is more clever and focussed and despite Tova’s best efforts she kept her cool and held firm. I honestly think that Tova’s claim that heaps of the Nat caucus are in touch with her bad mouthing Collins is a bluff, in order to rile Collins. I don’t believe it for a minute.
    
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    September 25, 2021 1:48pm
- Bob
  
  Yep!! at the end it seemed more like Judith was interviewing Tova, with a few pointers about relevant questions and content.
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:17pm
Belinda

I’m so over this covid BS. Went into a butchers shop just now, found a nice roast,picked it up, next thing manager is yelling from back of shop that there are more than six people in the shop, then a woman comes along and herds us out of the shop, I only had time to throw my meat back, and tell them to shove it.
Another couple did the same.
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September 25, 2021 11:46am
- sooty
  
  Obviously the shopkeeper doesn’t like money!
  
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  September 25, 2021 1:15pm
- kevn
  
  @Belinda… Same. I (almost) walked into a car dealership when a screechy woman from inside rushed out say “you can’t come in here with out signing in and a mask”. I had a (ex Countdown) mask in my pocket and was about to put it on, but decided to just… go away.
  Sooo unwelcoming.
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:23pm
Maggie Pie

TWITTER TRENDING…..

Melbourne woman arrested for not wearing a mask.
Charged with assault and resisting police.
Turns out she had a medical exemption…

https://twitter.com/charlie_tango98/status/1441507824450691072

>>the replies are an absolute HOOT!
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September 25, 2021 11:47am
- BananaLlama
  
  This is old from last year? but i remember getting bloody wild when i saw it back then, iirc she spat on him and he lost his shit.
  Anyway the warning signs were all there that the Aussie police were ready and willing to act like tyrants but no one paid any attention.
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:11pm
Jack5

Space and electric-car magnate Elon Musk is well into the career phase where he becomes an entertainment-news star.

This may be old hat to those who follow that stuff, but it’s fascinating to many of us who don’t.

Musk and his third (or is it fourth) wife, the Canadian musician known as “Grimes”, from whom Musk says he is “semi-separated”, named their child “X Æ A-12”, reports the South China Morning Post. To comply with California naming regulations, which forbid (Roman) numerals in names, they change this to “X Æ A-Xii”.

The newspaper report includes a tweet decoding, or purporting to decode, the child’s name. You can read it here:

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/united-states-canada/article/3150068/elon-musk-says-he-and-girlfriend-grimes-are-semi

Whether Grimes is Musk’s third or fourth wife depends on how you count his double marriage to his second wife.
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September 25, 2021 11:51am
- I remember when
  
  Sounds like a couple in an articulated vehicle.
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:57pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Hey folks,
You all seem to have missed Yesterday’s handout for our dedicated and intrepid Journalists stuck out in the boondocks…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126486810/second-public-interest-journalism-funding-round-provides-18-million-for-110-journalist-roles

(Oh yes, another Friday afternoon news dump— disappeared from easy viewing)
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September 25, 2021 12:11pm
- Nickc2
  
  Going by current news reporting, I seriously doubt there is enough news created in NZ for 40-50 journalists.
  What is probably more interesting is the fact that the funding is only for two years. Aren’t the elections in two years’ time?
  Greasing the skids? Surely not, not in Lil-olde-NZ. In any other country, such behaviour would be termed corruption (just like in the US of A).
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:21pm
- marcw
  
  Yesterdays NZ On Air media release can be seen here too:
  
  https://mailchi.mp/nzonair/110-journalist-roles-funded-to-provide-public-interest-journalism-across-the-motu-5305720?e=248ad16651
  
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  September 25, 2021 12:46pm
- greybeard
  
  “support independent NZ-owned journalism” – Stuff Fluff
  
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  September 25, 2021 1:28pm
- Bob
  
  So now the media bribes total $123 mill.
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:19pm
Warren

I have to wonder why Jacinda Ardern our Prime Minister has David Clark in her caucus as everything he touches turn to shit.
Commerce Commission final report into Supermarkets competition pushed back months by Government.
Another fail by the Government and its Minister after they stood up and smeared Supermarket chains of price gouging and price fixing among themselves. Then ordered a inquiry into their practice because of the allegations, but now are complaining that 6months is not enough time because of Covid -19 and as a result have pushed out the extra time to March 2022.
https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/126490236/commerce-commission-final-report-into-supermarket-competition-pushed-back-months-by-government
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September 25, 2021 12:13pm
lazza

NZ Herald today “Canvas front page”. A Portrait of Toni Street …

Airbrushed! … big time

I prefer the real TS. A very stoic and brave lady who has been deeply! affected by the loss of her three siblings.
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September 25, 2021 12:24pm
Nickc2

Warning, Violence
Just another day at the office for Chairman Dan’s Goon Squad (Vic Police Aust).
https://www.michaelsmithnews.com/2021/09/obey-.html
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September 25, 2021 12:33pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  The thug in the background smashing the butt of his rifle into the body of a protester being held on the ground by another officer is particularly sickening.
  
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  September 25, 2021 3:15pm
doggone7

Today was meant to be Christmas. It had been put off and put off.

I mean the big audit in Arizona and the Trump triumph. Hundreds of thousands of illegal votes, countless hours of checking over months and millions of dollars spent.

I guess Santa was in lockdown.
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September 25, 2021 12:36pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Not sure what your point is, the audit has shown clearly that 10’s of thousands of ineligible votes were counted rendering the result invalid (Biden ‘won’ by 10500). The canvas has also revealed a large scale conspiracy to manufacture fake voters and mail in votes to steal elections by democrat aligned interests – all those non existent imaginary voters and residence found by volunteers door knocking.
  
  Legacy/DNC aligned media only reporting that recounts of ballots were roughly in line with previous recount, not the real story that there were 10’s of thousands of ineligible ballots in those totals – (which is the whole point of what this audit was looking at).
  
  Not sure where if anywhere that it goes to from here given the rigid control that interests wanting to maintain the status quo have over the institutions that could remedy this, but it’s clear that Biden likely lost in Arizona (true result possibly unknowable due to destruction of evidence). I expect at a minimum the gaping holes that have allowed DNC to inject fake mail in votes in this and likely previous elections will be closed now that Republicans are aware of the scale of the problem.
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:13pm
  - doggone7
    
    My point is that all the assurances made and all the promises that there was widespread fraud came to naught.
    
    It would would be great if you got in touch with authorities in the States and give them all the info about the “10’s of thousands of ineligible ballots” in the totals. They don’t seem to have what you have.
    
    Numerous recounts were done in Arizona then this major audit and they didn’t find there were 10’s of thousands of ineligible ballots or come to the conclusion about “imaginary voters.”
    
    Maybe you have been sucked in by the audit report having “made-for-TV misleading numbers,” you know, information presented in such a way as to get the gullible.
    
    Biased auditors, with no experience in the field of election audits, couldn’t achieve their major aim and as they left the room did the equivalent of queering the water, spraying stuff on the floor and slamming doors. They listed bare numbers to feed that gullible mob.
    
    “The review also checked the names of voters against a commercial database, finding 23,344 reported moving before ballots went out in October. While the review suggests something improper, election officials note that voters like college students, those who own vacation homes or military members can move to temporary locations while still legally voting at the address where they are registered.
    
    “A competent reviewer of an election would not make a claim like that,” said Trey Grayson, a former Republican secretary of state in Kentucky.”
    
    Just as the auditors weren’t interested in what actually happened, it seems neither are you. “It’s clear that Biden likely lost in Arizona,” only to those who want to believe it. There are those who’d believe Trump if he said he won California and Washington DC.
    
    Terrible isn’t how sometimes truth and reality beats the deluded.
    
    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/watch-live-arizona-officials-hold-press-conference-on-elections-audit-results
    
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    September 25, 2021 3:41pm
    - Fletch
      
      There was widespread fraud. Over 17,000 duplicate ballots, etc.
      
      https://rumble.com/vmxejf-dr.-shiva-reveals-there-were-over-17000-duplicate-ballots-in-maricopa-count.html
      
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      September 25, 2021 4:23pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      So why were the Democrats and their allies so determined to prevent this audit ? Because there were around 4 x more invalid votes than the winning margin reported, I guess, they were perfectly well aware how those votes were created.
      
      In any normal election, that would mean that the result could not be certified until those votes were eliminated. Why should it be different in 2020 ?
      
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      September 26, 2021 1:53pm
dcrane

Police on a power trip in Victoria won’t say sorry

https://twitter.com/OzraeliAvi/status/1398588723453775872
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September 25, 2021 12:38pm
- kevn
  
  @dcrane… I wonder how these cops will view themselves in the future?
  “Just obeying orders” ?
  
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  September 25, 2021 2:16pm
- Observer of Life
  
  DC: That video clip is appalling .. the Police Officers were wrong and wouldn’t give an apology. They really aren’t doing themselves any day favours.
  
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  September 25, 2021 8:59pm
Fletch

More on Russiagate. It’s slowly coming out now, the conspiracy to get Clinton elected and to frame Trump. Newest info from Durham is that Sussman employed a cyber security “expert” who used classified insider data which they altered to make it look like Trump had links with the Russia-based Alfa Bank.

https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/09/22/latest-durham-indictment-may-make-russiagate-the-most-corrupt-scandal-in-u-s-history-n1480603

It’s just getting dirtier and dirtier. It’s amazing that Trump got elected at all.
22 3
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September 25, 2021 12:39pm
- Nickc2
  
  Ideally, Hillary should be getting measured for a Chartreuse Jump Suit. Unfortunately, she will probably croak from old age before she can go to trial. Such are the powers of a corrupt Senate, accompanying Lawyers and the MSM.
  
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  September 25, 2021 1:08pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She will Arkancide before letting the truth out. Epstein Island stuff, as well as the normal Democrat corruption
    
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    September 25, 2021 2:10pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Isn’t it also bout time that Durham led a proper investigation of Ben Ghazi and the Buttery Males?
  
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  September 25, 2021 5:42pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Pretty more diversion Mikey. But good to see that you think it perfectly acceptable for a lawyer to conspire to fabricate evidence and then to dishonestly present that evidence to a state police agency to attempt to get an opponent investigated to give your party a political advantage.
    
    Note that it doesn’t take 27 pages of detailed evidence on the construction of a conspiracy to present that evidence to actually charge Sussman with the crime he has been charged with, all that is needed is the bare allegation. So why all the detail ? It does look a bit like Durham has conspiracy charges in mind, and the fact that both Sussman and Elias have left Perkins Coie suddenly, and the Technical Executive (who has been identified) has also effectively left his company, is supportive of that idea.
    
    We’ll have to wait and see, but just maybe the entire conspiracy behind the “Russian Collusion” will be unravelled. And a conspiracy it was, despite Batman’s most earnest desires, there never was any substance to the claims, unlike the “buttery emails” where Clinton was easily provably guilty of both perjury and security breaches, but escaped because of her Democrat Privilege status.
    
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    September 26, 2021 2:05pm
I remember when

A Fracking Story of Taranaki:
Someday Stories, 2021. Series 5:
A short documentary that (supposedly) highlights an environmental catastrophe persisting in Aotearoa’s backyard – the expansion of oil and gas operations in Taranaki.
Some mention of oil company deception, potential health issues, possible environmental breeches but no figures or facts.
Four almost certainly Green Party voters express their views, with the support of NZ on Air, etc, etc, and your tax contributions.
There may well be a worthwhile story but this wasn’t it.
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September 25, 2021 12:44pm
Fletch

A Physicians Declaration, signed by 3,100 physicians from around the world as part of the three day Global Covid Summit.

Thousands have died from Covid as a result of being denied life-saving early treatment. The Declaration is a battle cry from physicians who are daily fighting for the right to treat their patients, and the right of patients to receive those treatments – without fear of interference, retribution or censorship by government, pharmacies, pharmaceutical corporations, and big tech. We demand that these groups step aside and honor the sanctity and integrity of the patient-physician relationship, the fundamental maxim “First Do No Harm”, and the freedom of patients and physicians to make informed medical decisions. Lives depend on it.

… [The link provides the data. Mod.]

https://amgreatness.com/2021/09/24/over-3000-doctors-and-scientists-sign-declaration-accusing-covid-policy-makers-of-crimes-against-humanity/

Video of the declaration, read by Dr Robert Malone, who helped create mRNA vaccines.

https://3speak.tv/watch?v=pandemichealth/iemhyrjt&jwsource=twi
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September 25, 2021 12:46pm
lazza

[Deleted – tell it to facebook. Mod.]
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September 25, 2021 1:02pm
Fletch

Funny of the day –

In England, booster shot is spelled ‘Borchestershire shot’
11 3
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September 25, 2021 1:11pm
- Tony Stuart
  
  Oh, very good 😀
  
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  September 25, 2021 1:36pm
lazza

Brian Laundrie posted this engagement photo of the pair with a message saying

… “til death do us part”!!!

Ooh Boy. Now that! … was “some promise”.
2 1
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September 25, 2021 1:57pm
Prince

I hear Chris Hipkins said that people are obliged to serve someone who is not wearing a mask and has an exemption.
This makes no sense.
If not wearing a mask ‘puts everyone at risk of catching covid and dying, and well as transmitting it to your family’, why should anyone be expected to take that risk ? If masks are necessary for health reasons, then surely anyone has the right to refuse to serve anyone without a mask, no matter what the explanation.
Or is wearing a mask not really that necessary, but just another way of imposing control over the country ?
13 4
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September 25, 2021 2:20pm
- krazykiwi
  
  They are compliance muzzles, and public evidence of who has internatised the state’s long-running fear porn campaign.
  
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  September 25, 2021 4:37pm
SmokerGuy

I see a headline from an article by Fran O’Sullivan where business leaders are ‘fuming’ because their ideas are caught up in bearacracy. Well how many of those same people voted for this government? Wtf did they think would happen? I have some sympathy for business but it’s hard to feel too much tbh. The response from business has been so weak since labour took over, business needs to grow a pair and start aggressively calling out the government.
12 1
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September 25, 2021 2:34pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Lefties, get the basement keys off Mum, and go to your safe place.
Can AOC solve this riddle?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARHsYZdYKYE
4 6
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September 25, 2021 2:55pm
Tony Stuart

From Christopher Luxon and Judith Collins:

Labour’s Three Waters plans would see the Government steal your local water assets and strip control from your community.

National will keep local assets in local control, and we will protect community decision-making.

Right now, your drinking water, wastewater and stormwater services are controlled by your elected council. Your local water assets have been paid for by ratepayers over decades.

Labour’s plan would bundle your assets into regional mega-entities and put community control at arm’s length.

These new water entities would be ivory towers spread over hundreds of kilometres, made up of a complex smorgasbord of appointees and bureaucrats. Councils would have token representation, alongside iwi, in appointing decision-makers.

Councils’ ownership rights would be confused and unclear, and water services will no longer be accessible to you, their customers.

On top of that, the touted scale benefits are unrealistic, and communities with good water services will end up subsidising their poorer-performing neighbours. Your water bill might be funding water infrastructure in a totally different region.

Councils have been given until 1 October to provide feedback to the Government. A majority of councils don’t support the reforms and many have called for a pause. Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta has completely ignored their pleas and has now ruled out halting the reforms. After spending $4 million on a negative ad campaign and throwing even more money at councils to try to secure their support, it’s clear the Government will do whatever it takes to forge ahead with their plans.

It’s now inevitable that the Three Waters Reforms will be forced on councils, and communities will be compelled to surrender their water assets.

National strongly opposes the Three Waters asset grab, and has launched a petition today calling on Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta to put Three Waters on hold. National will keep local assets in local control, and we will protect community decision-making and say “We can’t afford to lose the ‘local’ from local government.”

Please consider signing the petition here: https://www.national.org.nz/stop-the-three-waters-asset-grab
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September 25, 2021 3:21pm
gump

I see that the election audit in Arizona that was commissioned and conducted by Republicans has found no evidence of election fraud.

How humiliating for Trump and his enablers.
5 12
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September 25, 2021 3:41pm
- Fletch
  
  Actually, there is plenty of evidence. 17,000 duplicate ballots in Maricopa County alone.
  
  https://rumble.com/vmxejf-dr.-shiva-reveals-there-were-over-17000-duplicate-ballots-in-maricopa-count.html
  
  But yeh, no one is going to do anything about it.
  
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  September 25, 2021 4:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Saw that on Yahoo News and CNN. Amazing how they get this shit before play school TV1 News.
  Good researching gump
  
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  September 25, 2021 4:49pm
Maggie Pie

My partner decided to invite a few mates over for the rugby 🙁
Just told me to arrange some Thai from UberEats.
He’s been telling everyone the games over before it even starts. Got a bet on the AB’s @12 and over with his man in Oz.
Say’s it’s nothing like it USED to be.
Likens it to when the Spring Box toured here and played the NZ Maori.
Reckons these days it’s like the All Blacks up against the SA Zulus.
Personally, I can’t wait till the next big Slam.
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September 25, 2021 3:46pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….
I see where ‘Mt Roskill’ is again in the news for ALL the wrong reasons 🙁

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1441606024926949384

More than 30 residents playing ‘TOUCH’ at local park despite lv3 lockdown!

I took Gladys for a walk this morning at the Waiatarua Reserve.
Fully masked, rubber glove, plastic bags.
Only saw 5 other people there that I waved out to.
No wonder you never see Remuera designated ‘a location of interest’.
7 3
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September 25, 2021 5:19pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Yes, glue-sniffers such as you and Gladys probably prefer somewhere a bit secluded.
  
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  September 25, 2021 5:40pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Glad’s more your ‘bum-sniffer’ TBH milky.
    A little like yourself….. 😛
    
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    September 25, 2021 7:06pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    You walked into that one Mikey. Need to up your game against Maggie…
    
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    September 26, 2021 2:08pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, drove past an outdoor seating cafe in L2 and saw dozens of happy, laughing diners enjoying the sunshine. Not a mask to be seen. Jacinda’s spies are probably formulating a crackdown on diners as we speak.
  
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  September 25, 2021 6:07pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Fully masked, rubber glove, plastic bags.”
  
  I can just picture you. ?
  
  4 0
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  September 25, 2021 6:46pm
- MCos
  
  That park is in Mt Wellington, Home of the Headhunters Gang, which is.
  
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  September 25, 2021 7:00pm
Cinematic

It’s not just kiwifruit. Now lions have the vid in a zoo in the US. They’re isolating.
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September 25, 2021 8:14pm
In Vino Veritas

TJ Peranara is the worst halfback we have had in 20 years. How TF this clown gets picked is beyond me. He should sod off and become something that he is better at. Say, social bloody justice sook.
1 1
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September 25, 2021 8:42pm
- Cinematic
  
  Agreed. Slow and replaceable.
  
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  September 25, 2021 10:11pm

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