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October 8, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 October 2021

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General Debate

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PhilBest

Why isn’t this kind of analysis of the track record of Covid modellers all over the MSM?

https://twitter.com/mattwridley/status/1445035926200197129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1445035926200197129%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwmbriggs.com%2Fpost%2F37582%2F

https://twitter.com/bizmanic/status/1444733387080671236

There is no chance whatsoever that NZ’s Shaun “GIGO” Hendy is any better than these other charlatans
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October 8, 2021 8:00am
- I remember when
  
  Covid modellers have feet of clay.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:59am
  - RalphT
    
    And talk a lot of shit, hence the view that most of them don’t know shit from clay.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:47am
- krazykiwi
  
  Matt Ridley is safe pair of hands on this stuff. His blog – The Rational Optimist – is worth subscribing to, and his books make interesting reading.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:43am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Following those links and found an interesting story. Apparently the French court has made an ruling on unvaxxed healthcare workers. This is some article text (Google translated from French)
    
    The Cergy-Pontoise administrative court has just rendered an essential decision that will set a precedent for all unvaccinated caregivers on sick leave, whose public hospital has violated their rights to compensation. He has just … suspended the suspension of a caregiver, laid off by her hospital during her sick leave. The court orders the payment of wages.
    
    So essentially the court has ruled that in this district (just north of Paris) healthcare workers can’t be sacked for refusing the jab.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:16am
- alloytoo
  
  They all run “Hot” just like Climate modellers.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:07am
  - Doc Holliday
    
    Foolish ignorant talk:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300424570/this-years-nobel-physics-laureates-have-made-sense-of-complexity
    
    Nobel committee said the prize was meant to celebrate the discoveries themselves.
    
    But, they added, it also showed that the modelling of climate and the notion of global warming rested on solid physical science.
    
    Human beings can no longer say they did not know how or why Earth was heating up.
    
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    October 8, 2021 7:02pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  The perils of computing too much and thinking too little
  It has consumed the climate change modeller too:
  
  https://wattsupwiththat.com/2021/10/07/ipcc-ar6-breaking-the-hegemony-of-global-climate-models/
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:31am
  - Doc Holliday
    
    Watts is an ignoranus:
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/300424570/this-years-nobel-physics-laureates-have-made-sense-of-complexity
    
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    October 8, 2021 7:04pm
    - waikatosinger
      
      You really think there is no politics in the Nobel?
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:18pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The ignorami are with Stuff.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:20pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Hendy, Plank and Baker all heavily referenced the fiddler Neil Ferguson and his ludicrous Imperial College London model, described as being “like the Sims without the graphics” by one expert coder. That was even after 2 weeks of a team of Microsoft experts trying to patch it up. Ferguson has a decades long track record of being very wrong in everything he ever predicted. Plank tried to defend him in a Twitter exchange and was made to look like the average mathematician that he actually is.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:42pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Ferguson? The modeller who uses a 50 year old programming language in the worst possible way.
    The last time I saw that used was back in the late 70’s when a bureau delivered a report where all the zeroes had been replaced by 9.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:26pm
dishy

Credit where credit’s due…

Tahi must hand it to Tahi News on the telly last night, for so efficiently communicating to tahi all tahi needs to know about the arrant uselessness of Green MPs (ideological idiots who get in on the list and, like Angry Little, couldn’t win an electorate seat if their sorry lives depended on it), telly news reporters and racial politics.

In less than 60 seconds (I’m good at counting, and an excellent driver) viewers were treated to the following, in relation to the current legislative proposal to introduce roadside drug testing:

First: An interview with Julie Anne Genter, thus:

Reporter: The Royal College of GPs today said the Bill should be put on hold. Do you agree with them?

Genter: Um…uh…(exaggerated sigh)…I think that, um…you know, I’m….I, I actually can’t do this interview, sorry…

Reporter: Why?

Genter: Um…I, I just wasn’t expecting to be grilled for something the Government’s doing, and…

Reporter: You helped usher in this Bill. You and Stuart Nash launched it.

Genter: ….um…..

Second: Maiki Sherman (the reporter) purporting to state as fact, without a skerrick of evidence: “The law would also disproportionately affect Maori”.

Third: Debbie Ngarewa-Packer (co-leader of the Māori Party): “…we can’t support anything, that is going to re-victimise…
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October 8, 2021 8:00am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It was an absolute shocker of a performance from Genter. Over on Twitter, people are suggesting that we shouldn’t be too harsh on her because she is obviously heavily pregnant, but if an impending birth is affecting her ability to do her job, should she not take leave?
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:21am
  - Gravelroad
    
    Whaaaat?
    For a highly paid, educated, allegedly professional woman, being pregnant should have no impact on their work (unless they have an accompanying medical condition as well) at all.
    Thousands of women carry on as normal when pregnant – they have to.
    If she can bike to the birthing centre in all traffic, she can answer a few work related question.
    The Green Paety is an absolute joke and why people support them at the ballot box beats me.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:30am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Hell yeah – just ask Cindy; she’s living proof that the modern womin can have (and do) it all…
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:53am
    - Than
      
      Having never been pregnant, or even co-habited with a pregnant woman, I can’t speak to that. But regardless, Genter cannot have it both ways.
      
      If her pregnancy is impeding her ability to perform as a minister (and that includes being able to communicate with the public, such as through TV/radio interviews) then as Tony said, she should be taking leave. Nobody would judge her for that, it’s an absolutely valid reason.
      
      But conversely, if she feels she can still do the job and doesn’t need to take leave, then she can’t use her pregnancy as an excuse. Like I said, she can’t have it both ways.
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:55am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      In far left clown world you are entitled to things like jobs because of immutable characteristics (having right parent, gender and mental ‘quirks’), not as a meritocratic reward for hard work or ability. Results don’t matter.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:58am
  - pdm
    
    Or just leave full stop.
    
    Then again who do we get – could be worse and that is saying something.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:49am
  - alex Masterley
    
    will she be biking to the maternity unit at wellington hospital?
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:17am
  - ecco
    
    Ardern will probably pull the 2nd baby card leading into the next election. In built protection from percieved bullying of a poor vulnerable woman with child.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:33am
- riffer
  
  Geez, dishy, I consider myself centre on most things and left on some (which pretty much qualifies me here as a hard left lunatic) and I thought that interview was an absolute cluster.
  
  When you have almost the entire medical council telling you there is no scientific or medical basis for what you are doing this is a clear example of ideological thought overtaking common sense.
  
  While I have no faith in the ability of the parties on the right to (on the whole) make our country a better place, I have also lost faith in those currently in government as well.
  
  I genuinely feel like no political party in NZ represents me.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:28am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here she is from about 1:20 in:
  
  https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/07/roadside-drug-testing-given-green-light-despite-evidence-of-being-unreliable/
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:45am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Thanks Maggy, priceless.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:07am
    - 7kiwi11
      
      Oh man, what a train wreck!
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:57am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Does anyone know where we can watch this video, I would like to see it?
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:44am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    I see Maggy has it above
    thanks
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:50am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori should stop their false victimisation claims. The US model has no relevance either to New Zealand. They have been very well provided for including massive “final” settlements. For a group of tribes killing and eating each other that was not a bad outcome. Regrets and regression now are not possible. They have continually interbred during our time with them so who is say they are a Maori now with at least 80% of the genes of their ancestors of the 1840’s. Even I have a mixed Maori son in law. Any grandchild will be a maximum 25% and probably less than 5%.
  
  The 15% Maori population is a myth. Time to pull the Maori seats. Forget Te Reo that language like Latin has passed its useful time. It’s now only a bashing stick.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:46am
Benedict Yu

Just wanted to share some data from the UK on COVID.

In the last two weeks of September:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_kf_Y3e8UaY

Average daily symptomatic infections – 58,126
… Of which – 14,352 are vaccinated.

Most symptomatic in infections are in the unvaccinated but share of the vaccinated in total symptomatic infections is slowly increasing.

Hospitalisations are stable.

Infections in the over 50s are stable.

Very large increases in infections in children (0-18). Infections in the 30 – 50 group are also beginning to rise sharply – seems the school kids are getting infected at school and then infecting their parents (symptoms in children are almost universally trivial).

Takeaways:

The vaccinated in the UK are slowly but surely becoming infected, although at a rate that is considerably slower than for the unvaccinated.

The virus is ripping through children who are highly infectious and can go on to infect parents and grandparents.

The virus is on an unstoppable path to becoming endemic in the UK. In the next few years almost every person in the UK will be infected with COVID.
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October 8, 2021 8:01am
- Cinematic
  
  Yep but for one correction, it is already endemic.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:04am
  - Ruahine
    
    Here is a vid that might bring a smile. It is called Hope New Zealand. It is likely to go Viral unless the gov’t gets it banned.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VxKY6WGaL54&ab_channel=HughuGrub
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:09am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Please send this on. Something for the “young ones”
      
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      October 8, 2021 1:45pm
    - Spoff
      
      Triple ups!
      
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      October 8, 2021 2:09pm
    - Pheobe
      
      Love it, have been sharing it.
      
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      October 8, 2021 4:28pm
- PhilBest
  
  Just like “almost any virus can be found in almost anyone”. PCR is the first tool sensitive enough to prove this. We wouldn’t even know most of the “Covid infections” had occurred at all, without it. Just as it is irrelevant that you and I probably have detectable traces of HIV.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:10am
- Andrei
  
  Respiratory viruses of which well over 1000 have been identified have always been endemic in human communities
  
  The only reason why we have noticed this one is that it has recently become possible to produce taxonomies of them through genome mapping
  
  Without these tools nobody would even be aware of anything unusual going on
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:10am
- Frank the tank
  
  Like everywhere else in the world Ben.
  
  I love telling Smug Hermit Kingdom followers that they are going to get a covid variant in the next 36 months. You get the same reaction out of flat earthers when you explain gravity to them.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:15am
  - G152
    
    And that border is going South.
    Probably take a year to get to Wellington and the limits of our patience
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:34am
- Russ the Muss
  
  Becoming endemic? I think you will find it meets the requirements of being endemic already. A recent study had 90% of all Brits having antibodies. So almost everyone has either had it or is vaxxed. Vaccines do not stop the spread, so you are right, everyone including us will get it in the future. This is a reality that many already know, but for some reason our leaders are reluctant to talk about
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:25am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Our ‘leaders’ are in denial. They are on another planet.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:08am
    - tf78
      
      We need a Dominic Perrottet here right now.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:06am
    - Ehlana
      
      That’s an excellent idea Captain. Does Rocket Lab have capsule big enough to hold the Cabinet? How soon can they be launched?
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:48am
- bronny1
  
  In the interview link someone shared yesterday with the 8 doctors and other experts talking, the woman who had headed a major healthcare business said something about how about mid August she started to see many more infections in vaccinated, I believe suggested that this coincided with the change from alpha to delta. So will be interesting g to see how useful the vax is against delta over next few months.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:42am
  - Paulus
    
    Next variant is called Epsilon overseas.
    
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    October 8, 2021 11:08am
- MCos
  
  “In the next few years almost every person in the UK will be infected with COVID.”
  Maybe, but what does it mean?
  It is known that eight million people have been infected thus (11.7%) in twenty months, but not the actual number for a variety of reasons including some people don’t know themselves.
  The range of reactions is enormous; from nothing to death.
  Is it possible to test someone and detect whether they’ve had the bug in the past if they’ve been vaccinated?
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:44am
- Simon
  
  Good summary.
  
  Problem for next year. Vaxxed asymptomatic super spreader visiting their granny at the rest home, where every one is double vaxxed….
  
  How are the sheep going to cope when they are vaxxed they still can catch and transmit the virus?
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:58am
- I remember when
  
  Surely this outcome was expected by governments after the long and extensive trial periods for the vaccines.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:05am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    the long and extensive trial periods for the vaccines.
    These were least tested to date.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:52am
    - tf78
      
      Kev, they’re still being tested on Guinea pigs.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:21am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Indeed, I have to work hard to escape them.
        
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        October 8, 2021 1:04pm
- surfing
  
  82% of uk is double vaxxed.
  
  So 82% of the population contribute just 25% of new cases?
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:12am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Standy, some non-modelling experts are foreseeing the vaccinated bringing further trouble particularly from ADE.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:55am
  - MCos
    
    According to the NYT 67% of the population of the UK is double vaccinated. 73% at least one dose.
    NZ 44% & 69%
    
    The percentage of the eligible population is neither here nor there as everyone can get the bug.
    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2021/world/tcovid-vaccinations-tracker.html?referringSource=articleShare
    
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    October 8, 2021 12:51pm
- Surely Knott
  
  Agree. But would like to add that the unvaccinated but vaccinated rate is a bit misleading in isolation. As per the graph most new infection at the moment is in young people who are ineligible to be vaccinated and not at severe risk of poor outcomes..
  
  In NZ’s current outbreak 17.3% are 0-9 yrs old. And 21 % are 10-19 yrs old. So when the spinoff for example tries to frame it as a pandemic of the unvaccinated it’s mostly because they are kids and babies.
  
  Wales Public Health (sept 24 report) separates hospitalisation by age group. While broadly the Headlines say that 1/3 of the cases are unvaccinated. But that is because many of those are unvaccinated youngsters. For the critical group over 60’s however, 90% of the hospital admissions are over 60 and only 7% were unvaccinated. “Of the 470 coronavirus inpatients aged 60 and over 90% had been given both vaccine doses, 2.6% one dose, and only 7% were unvaccinated. ”
  
  The double vax rate in over 60’s in wales seems to be about 95% .
  
  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-58680204
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:16am
  - I remember when
    
    Surely Knott:
    These figures suggest there is more to the vaccination debate than simply immunity.
    What sort of immunity is the most effective.
    The order of vaccination.
    Getting the modellers to do something useful and produce a percentage for ‘opening up.’
    What are the likely unintended consequences.
    Are there likely to be serious illnesses because lockdown has reduced immunity levels.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:56am
- Tomtoddy
  
  An interesting aspect of the vaccination rate. Comparing number vaccinated on July 31st with Sept 5th.
  China 74% 76%
  Uruguay 74% 79%
  Singapore 73% 80%
  Denmark 72% 77%
  Chile 72% 81%
  Canada 71% 77%
  UK 69% 72%
  Ireland 67% 76%
  
  It is evident that it is relatively easy to get 70% of your population vaccinated but getting past 80% is very tough. With all the effort happening here will we crack 90% – the totally unresearched, magical number?
  
  Lockdown well into 2022…..??
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:32am
  - kowtow
    
    The only percentage that matters is vax for the vulnerable .
    
    Once they’re covered nothing else matters .
    
    We’re being held hostage by a stupid govt and its bought and paid for idiots in the Media Pardy.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:03am
    - Bridgenag
      
      Why can’t the vulnerable stay home and the teachers, nurses, police border workers etc be vaccinated as a priority
      
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      October 8, 2021 1:48pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      Agree. Even the NY times is reporting today that maybe young people should have only one dose or suggested we need to adjust the dose especially for young healthy teen guys who are exponentially higher rates of myocarditis. This is in the news today. And the UK’s JCVI recommended young people shouldn’t be vaccinated at all . Yet there is an enormous amount of public pressure for everyone regardless of risk category to get down and take the shot when many scientists and countries are giving different advice for the young.
      
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      October 8, 2021 2:55pm
  - Wayne Mapp
    
    Actually 90% is quite well researched. It is the figure that Professor Hendy modelled, supported by all the epidemiologists, as dramatically dropping the level of deaths and hospital admissions, compared to lower figures such as 80% or 85%.
    
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    October 8, 2021 11:18am
    - Aquataur
      
      Wayne
      Just about every time you comment I thank the Gods you are no longer anywhere near the levers of power.
      
      It is not well researched, and Hendy is now widely seen as a charlatan. All the epidemiologists – no, just the ones the media likes and who support unlimited lockdowns.
      
      For countries that have relatively high vac rates (Israel, Ireland, Denmark, Australia, Singapore, etc) the Covid death rate is trending at about 1 death per million per day (see World in Data charts). Many of these countries have much higher pop densities than NZ which is thought to be correlated with spread – ie Israel at close to 400 people per sqkm cf NZ 20.
      
      At the worst NZ would be at about 5 per day, and trending lower as the more vulnerable/unvaxxed reduce in % terms. So 1800 p.a. at a vax rate of around 80% – miles away from the figures the charlatans are using to create fear and compliance
      
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      October 8, 2021 3:09pm
- Albert_Ross
  
  Yes, people in the UK are getting it in increasing numbers. But it isn’t making them seriously ill in increasing numbers, and it isn’t killing them in increasing numbers.
  
  That’s what the vaccine has done – It has made covid into a risk we can live with. That’s actually an awesome result and a huge achievement for modern science. Politicians bear a heavy responsibility that their ridiculous overselling of what could be achieved has made it look as if science and medicine have failed us.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:37am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    If so that’s good news. There is a lot of contrary opinion but I expect it should be a lot clearer in six months, both schools cannot be right.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:58am
- Ed Snack
  
  Or will have been infected, not sure that we have evidence that the virus can, like some others, not be eliminated but lie dormant.
  
  Having survived, they are then pretty close to permanently protected, though long term we can’t know of course.
  
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  October 8, 2021 12:21pm
mikenmildagain

Eighty years ago today: west coast farmer objects to police taking his gun, so kills four of them, plus another person later in the afternoon, and goes on the run for 12 nights, killing two more people before being shot and killed himself.
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October 8, 2021 8:02am
- oldfella
  
  @mma, the movie, ‘Bad Blood’, about the Stanley Graham killings (starring Aussie Jack Thompson and a ‘who’s who’ of NZ actors) is on Amazon Prime. Or it was last time I looked.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:25am
- zulumonster
  
  My Dad and his mates played “Stanley Graham” rather than “Cowboys and Indians” for a while after that …
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:26am
- Spoff
  
  Relative of my mother (who didn’t like to hear his name mentioned). Also related to Sir Douglas Arthur Montrose Graham.
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:26pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  And in one of the strange twists of history, here in 2021, I can say that it was my uncle who hunted him down in the West Coast bush and shot him dead.
  
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  October 11, 2021 2:30am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I seem to recall they got him moving along a fence line. He was coming in and out of the bush on his forays into the farmland.
    I first read of his story in a sensationalist 1970s book, Famous New Zealand Murders.
    
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    October 11, 2021 6:55am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The general instruction was that Graham, if armed, was to be shot on sight. Quirke later told the coroner: ‘I was quite satisfied as to his identity and the fact that he was carrying a rifle. I fired at him … and wounded him and subsequently found that he had a rifle and a .32 calibre automatic pistol’. According to Quirke, Graham told him, ‘I am done. I was going to chuck it tonight, I am done, I have paid in full’.
    
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    October 11, 2021 7:27am
Benedict Yu

“The judge had not considered the Treaty of Waitangi requirement that a Māori child be placed with his/her whānau, hapu, and/or iwi, provided there were no safety concerns”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126610044/lawyer-claims-decision-on-moana-case-was-biased-appeals-to-high-court

Does the Treaty actually state that? Seems to me that if you say the Treaty has “principles” you can argue just about anything. In this case arguing that Maori children should only have Maori foster parents. Because of the Treaty.

It may end up in the Supreme Court.
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October 8, 2021 8:02am
- Cinematic
  
  This appeal falls into the bizarre basket and will be given short shrift by the High Court.
  
  Whilst they tried to single out Callinicos it’s clear a series of judges had serious concerns about OT’s conduct in this case.
  
  This won’t go well for OT or the appellant.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:09am
  - KH
    
    “Sir Judge Callinicos” is what should happen. For service to New Zealand children. Against all odds he put the child first.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:52am
  - peterwn
    
    I cynically suspect that the CJ will be considering the backgrounds and stances of the various High Court judges with a view of a Judge being on the case most likely giving a sympathetic interpretation of the law. While there could be some issues on the facts as stated in the DCJ’s judgment, the appeal would mainly be about interpretation of the law. In particular the interpretation of s4 of the Care of Childrens Act 2004 would be very much in issue –
    https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2004/0090/latest/DLM317240.html
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:53am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I fail to see how the Treaty becomes an issue.
      Oranga Tamariki has only social workers many of whom have proved they have too much power relative to their abilities.
      Children are best left where they were rather then a social worker getting their clutches on them.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:02am
  - CJames
    
    Notice there is an application for legal aid. If that is declined, the case will go nowhere. Looks like just an ambulance chasing lawyer seeking income for lost causes.
    IIRC, the mother wasn’t a party to the original case, so how can it be appealed by her? And there has been no evidence that she has stopped the behaviour that led to the original neglect and the children being taken off her.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:55am
    - Cinematic
      
      It’s highly unlikely legal aid will be denied. The appellant has a right to be heard but I can’t see any decent grounds here.
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:26am
- Unity
  
  Bringing the Treaty into this is a load of codswallop. There are no Principles to the Treaty. They were made up by Geoffery Palmer. All the Treaty did was bring everyone under the same laws so they could be treated the same. The simple Treaty has been teased and teased to mean things never dreamed of nor known at the time of signing. It should have been filed away a long time ago. Chief Justice Prendergast called it ‘a simple nullity’ way back in the 1880’s so why on earth is it still around? File it away!!
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:12am
  - CJames
    
    Geoffery didn’t make up the Principles. He just put the word in the law without defining it. It was activist judges who came up with the Principles. So in theory, Parliament could pass a law defining what the Principles are which would supersede all the court determinations. Which future government would be bold enough to do that?
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:59am
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      One who didn’t want NZ to decline and fail over long term? If things tip too far into the anti-egalitarian racist woke shitter that the left are intent on putting us all into then the <1% talent pool that pulls NZ along and keeps our economy functioning will progressively vote with their feet and go to countries that are less fucked up and more rewarding of hard work.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:02am
    - Unity
      
      CJames – but there were no Principles in the Treaty, whoever makes them up. The Treaty should stand as was its original intent, i.e. to bring us all under the same laws. It was nothing short of a simple nullity and should have been filed away long ago when it achieved its original meaning. Today’s meaning has nothing to do with its original intent.
      
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      October 8, 2021 2:08pm
  - oldfella
    
    @Unity, the Nats recognise the TOW as NZ’s founding document. Why?
    
    New Zealand’s constitution is not found in one document. Instead, it has a number of sources, including crucial pieces of legislation, several legal documents, common law derived from court decisions as well as established constitutional practices known as conventions. Increasingly, New Zealand’s constitution reflects the Treaty of Waitangi as a founding document of government in New Zealand.
    
    https://gg.govt.nz/office-governor-general/roles-and-functions-governor-general/constitutional-role/constitution/constitution
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:31am
    - Unity
      
      Exactly oldfella. The Nats are making a huge mistake and will alienate many of its voting base, because of this stupidity. They are being just as ‘woke’ as the rest of the politicians. Big mistake!! I thought they would have had more sense. They have gone down markedly in my estimation because of this and I’m sure the same can be said for many.
      
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      October 8, 2021 2:10pm
    - david
      
      Yeah, big difference between “a” founding document and “the” founding document.
      
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      October 8, 2021 2:29pm
      - Unity
        
        The Treaty was NOT our founding document no matter how many are trying to say it is. We were administered from NSW when it was signed and it founded nothing. Our true founding document is Queen Victoria’s Royal Charter/Letters Patent which annexed us from NSW and gave us our own governor, constitution, legal and justice system, flag etc. File the Treaty away – it’s been made to mean so much that it didn’t ever mean.
        
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        October 8, 2021 4:18pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Defund the fucking thing!
    
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    October 8, 2021 3:50pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Benedict, It will end up in the SC.
  I am not sure that the lawyer for the mother is actually that competent. There is nothing that i have read in the statutes governing care of children that says the TOW overrides the overarching consideration of what is best for the child. The them in this case as i see it comming from the mothers lawyer is that what is best for maori, through her lense, is best for the child, when in reality that might not be the case.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:13am
  - Frank the tank
    
    The problem is not the treaty it’s the “principles” of the treaty and all you need is a couple of activist high court judges to apply these principles and there will be a perverse outcome to this trial.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:17am
  - fernglas
    
    Beg to differ Alex. The Judge applied the law correctly as far as I can see, and you don’t get to the S.C. on factual findings.
    As for the lawyer,she seems a bit thick, and if she is correctly quoted when she said this…
    “The evidence that portrayed the Pākehā foster parents in a negative light was not considered as it was all rejected by the judge.”
    …. then she has proved it out of her own mouth. For the evidence to have been rejected, it must first have been considered.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:28am
    - peterwn
      
      I suspect that OT will apply to be an ‘intervenor’ so the mother’s side will be effectively run by a couple of high power barristers at the taxpayer’s expense.
      
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      October 8, 2021 8:57am
    - alex Masterley
      
      Fernglas, I agree that the Judge has applied the law in the way intended by Parliament.
      My somewhat cynical view is that should it get to the SC their honours will grasp any straw they can, no matter how spurious it is to get the case onto their schedule.
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:20am
      - peterwn
        
        The SC can agree to take on a case without giving reasons. Reasons are given where the SC declines to take on a case.
        
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        October 8, 2021 12:39pm
  - I remember when
    
    Perhaps there should have been a, or number of, court case(s) before the child was taken from the mother.
    The arguments never start at the beginning of the problems.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:17am
- Scott
  
  Benedict – the actual treaty involves the Maori people accepting Queen Victoria and her descendants as their sovereign. They can keep the use of their land unless or until they decide to sell it in which case they must sell it to the Crown. In return they get the rights and protections of British subjects.
  
  Not quite sure what part of that has been violated by placing a Maori child with white foster parents who love her and care for her?
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:26am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Well in that case Oranga tamariki should have looked for the W’anau, hapu or iwi of Moana before they placed her with a loving but culturally “unsafe” family.
  
  But they were too damn lazy to check out such details, even though they had been dealing with Moana’s mum for Years.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:50am
- DeepBlue
  
  Does the defence have a give a little page? Asking for a person concerned for the girl’s welfare.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:55am
- redeye
  
  In reading about this case a couple of weeks ago I read a senior Iwi representative saying “Pakeha would be going spare if one of theirs was fostered by a Maori” (paraphrasing).
  At that point I thought. We really have reached peak ‘us and them” and this country is now more divided than I have seen in my 66 years.
  Thanks for the kindness.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:10am
- andrew davies
  
  And what about children who are bi racial?
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:18am
- lcmortensen
  
  It also fails to recognise that less than half of Māori are solely Māori. At the 2018 census, only 353,000 identified solely as Māori, while 336,000 identified as mixed Māori and European descent, and 34,000 of each mixed Māori/Pacific and mixed Māori/Pacific/European.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:25am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    What they identify as & what they actually are, are not necessarily the same thing.
    
    I’d be very surprised if there are more than a handful of pure Maori left anywhere.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:04pm
    - Nickc2
      
      There are NO pure blood Maori remaining.
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:21pm
bennerg

The Magicians Hands

Prestidigitation refers to the sleight of hand a magician uses to pull a live dove out of that tiny scarf, or a rabbit out of a hat. This often works by the magician drawing the audience’s attention to an action with one hand, all the while performing the “magic” with their other.

The same skills are used by politicians to create “their magic” by manufacturing crises, often by fear and distress, to draw popular attention away from their true intentions and actions.

The 1997 movie “Wag the Dog” had a plot that was a classic example of the technique. The film centers on a spin doctor and a Hollywood producer who fabricate a war in Albania to distract voters from a presidential sex scandal.

Taking a look at current events, we have a health crisis. Whether you think it is manufactured or real, the magician is taking advantage of the event to conceal the real events that are going on behind the scenes, to completely and radically change the makeup of New Zealand’s political and cultural constitution:

eg.
1. He Puapua 2021
2. Three Waters Reform
3. Changing the names of government departments and our country’s name through direct order, and media direction
4. Mandating a specific version of New Zealand’s history in schools
5. Introducing a presidential style of government (the basis for republicanism) as shown by “captains calls” and focus on “the leader” rather than our Westminster based Parliament, and any genuine attempt to achieve bipartisan-ship in the proceedings of government.
6. Implementing policies with no prior electorate mandate
7. Overall Media manipulation and control, with topics banned from public discussion or reporting
8. Restructure of local government by mandate. Appointed Commissioners in Tauranga is a trial for widespread implementation.
9. Encouraging citizens to “dob in” their neighbours (rather than talk to them) reminiscent of the East German Stasi.

There will be more, and perhaps other commenters can add to the list.

Note that once the current crisis is in hand, then more will be manufactured:
eg.
(i) Climate Emergency with all it’s “touted” associated mini-crises – sea level rise, increased storms, floods etc.
(ii) Race relations
(iii) Transport electrification

The comprehensive nature of this manipulation, with complicit support from all the major media, indicates a far wider strategy, or maybe just incredibly good luck. But I’m pragmatic, and don’t believe this stuff happens on it’s own.

For that reason I’m indebted to our host, where for the moment anyway, independent and unpopular narratives can still be debated freely.
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October 8, 2021 8:03am
- G152
  
  And mangling Maori
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:36am
- Yabster
  
  Been saying that a while- covid is real- get vacinated (if you wish) and move on to the real issues the country is facing- (ie your list above).
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:38am
- Nickc2
  
  Very true bennerg. Unfortunately, as they say in the classics, “there are none so blind as those who will not see.”
  You have said what a Free Press should be saying. Unfortunately, we don’t have a Free Press, we have a Govt paid Propoganda cabal masquerading as our MSM.
  Are Tova, Jessica and the Bradford Brat on bonus schemes?
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:04am
  - bennerg
    
    Thanks Nickc2. I saw a video last week explaining the mechanism that appears to have been sued to hypnotise the nation(s). So much so that critical thinking has gone out the window, and causing people to think that the only truth comes at the 1pm and 4pm press conferences.
    
    Also how the health departments of the world have been taken over by the pharmaceutical companies – ie the only approved treatments are high cost novel patented ones, and active suppression of existing and repurposed therapeutics.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:52am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Gutless govt and sycophantic public servants.
      
      Not the professional Public Service I once worked for. They knew their duty to support their Ministers and if a Minister got too far out of line to oppose and if needs be for the Permanent Head to resign. Ministers working to external ideologies, very visible in Ardern, would have been soundly reminded about its relevance or detriment to NZ’s interests. Ministers who sought good govt and development would find an activated dept on their side.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:18am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Someone doesn’t like responsible Public Servants.
        
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        October 8, 2021 1:06pm
  - oldfella
    
    @Nick2, as long as Tova, and the other Cindy fangirls, continue to unquestioningly worship the ‘Wahangu Wahine’ who captains ‘our’ team, nothing will change.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:41am
Rodney Hide

I find the news confusing and impossible to follow but am I right ti conclude that are back where we were March 2020 except with a vaccine now that’s not entirely effective and having flattened the economy and society on a scale equivalent to a world war?

Rodney Hide
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October 8, 2021 8:04am
- Chris R
  
  Correct…next question: When does accountability for this fiasco kick-in? Never?
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:06am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    October 2023.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:39am
    - bronny1
      
      Nope there will be another emergency by then to keep her high in the polls
      
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      October 8, 2021 8:45am
    - CJames
      
      That’s a big assumption there Tony. With the proposed legislation being rammed through at present, it isn’t beyond imagination that another piece will appear delaying the election because of some “crisis”.
      
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      October 8, 2021 8:50am
    - Bob
      
      By October 2023 Adern and comrades will have manipulated modification of the Electoral Legislation to make Elections, both national and local body dependent upon the whim of the PM.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:06am
  - Surely Knott
    
    Accountability, who should we blame and punish?The government (nope polling is up)…..the gangs (nope and they continue to receive favours and rights above that of ordinary citizens)… Fauci and Dazack and irresponsible scientists (nope still have top jobs) …..blame the unvaccinated (tick, and strip them of their rights and make them wear the yellow star to be hated by all neighbours.)
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:31am
- Cinematic
  
  That’s a pretty good summation. The economy is haemorrhaging and interest rates are headed up. Shits about to get real. Oh and we have a bunch of student politicians in charge.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:12am
  - Paulus
    
    Sorry, but Students are more intelligent, understanding and comprehensive than this bunch of Labour and Greens politicians.
    Worse Government in living times (even Muldoon era) and sadly more to come in the next two years.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:39am
    - Bob
      
      students are more intelligent……
      sadly not all students are intelligent. There are only a few traditional degree subjects where intelligence is a criteria to succeed.
      Won’t find any such graduates within the present government.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:09am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yes that would be my take Rodney.
  
  The vaccine will offer considerable protection against severe illness in the very elderly and vulnerable. But over the next three years or so I would expect to see New Zealand follow a pathway much like the UK – see my comment earlier in the thread.
  
  The last 18 months should have involved investments in ICU facilities to prepare for COVID becoming endemic. Instead, billions have been squandered on a doomed ‘elimination’ plan.
  
  The farce is not over yet. As I have commented frequently most people here think that the vaccine will stop them getting COVID and that we will achieve ‘herd’ immunity. The PM has fueled this misconception by saying that the vaccines would be used to “stamp out COVID like measles”.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:14am
  - krazykiwi
    
    $50b spent wisely on our health system (yes, just run with it) would have given us healthcare that rocketed us to the top of OECD rankings. We’d be the envy of the world. We are instead the woke, broke laughingstock of the world.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:23am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Past experience would say you are wrong. More money invested in health results mostly in better paid health professionals delivering the same services. Especially so if you consider that it would be the clown show running this investment. Targets and KPI’s are to the clown show what garlic and silver are to a vampire.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:15am
  - Ronin
    
    Sorry, down ticked accidentally. Bloody thing.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:24am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Internationally there’s the same issue. Biden just had a press conference (no questions of course, or no unscripted ones) where he plainly claimed that once vaccinated people cannot catch it pass on the virus.
    
    At least for Joe I guess he has the excuse that he wouldn’t know if that was so and is just reading what is in front of him. But a bald faced lie it is.
    
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    October 8, 2021 12:29pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Back to March 2020, but with some key differences, for example:-
  – $100b more in public debt
  – Increased business failures
  – Fear and anxiety rampant
  – Government by diktat
  – NZers locked in, and out of their country
  – A tsunami of inflation on the way while our minister of finance boasts about our strong economy
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:17am
  - Bob
    
    … and no prospects of meaningful employment for our grandchildren.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:10am
- PhilBest
  
  Read THIS:
  
  https://www.wired.com/story/the-teeny-tiny-scientific-screwup-that-helped-covid-kill/
  
  The WHO is guilty of negligent homicide on a mass scale for stuffing up “how Covid spreads” in the first place. They were told convincingly by dozens of experts in a conference call on 2 April 2020 that it is all about aerosol buildup indoors and the solution was an “Appollo Project” in ventilation. NOTHING has even been started with WHO advice, in October 2021. In so far as there are any initiatives in any nations, that is those nations doing their own thing.
  
  The other especially disgraceful aspect of this is that outdoors is perfectly safe, and actually “de risking” or therapeutic. Draconian policing against “being outdoors without a reason” or not wearing a mask outdoors, is the worst kind of occasion-seeking pretext for political terrorism against a populace.
  
  By the way, if people’s intuitions are not alerted by this obvious nonsense, they deserve to live in Orwell’s 1984 forever. I just wish there was a Galt’s Gulch that the rest of us who still have a functioning intellect, could escape to.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:18am
  - bennerg
    
    In India the Indian Bar Association is already taking the Chief Scientist at the World Health Organisation to the Supreme Court …. for her act of spreading disinformation and misguiding the people of India, in order to fulfil her agenda.
    
    https://indianbarassociation.in/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/IBA-PRESS-RELEASE-MAY-26-2021.pdf
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:07am
  - I remember when
    
    The droplet/aerosol, etc, lack of argument highlights what appears to be a growing need to be right.
    No debate can be allowed.
    Debate is too often squashed by the counter that it is stopping people learning the truth.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:09am
    - PhilBest
      
      Look at what is happening in Australia. The bad faith is total. The WRONG “orthodoxy” about contact, droplets and surfaces is “needed” to justify gratuitous and brutal tyranny.
      
      This is the simple sense that the public NEEDS to hear but isn’t.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGYyi5DqOzE
      
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      October 8, 2021 1:31pm
- ecco
  
  Hi just wanting to clarify, are you actually Rodney or just using his name for kiwiblog?
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:40am
  - Colville
    
    Its him. No way would DPF allow someone to pose as RH.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:07am
  - DeepBlue
    
    I think the real Rodney would sue the fake Rodney and KB if they were the latter.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:12am
    - Bevan
      
      I thought this Rodney Hide had already admitted he isn’t the politician we are thinking of. Can’t remember which thread though.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:17am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        It was a joke, I think….
        on a post to do with surveillance
        
        https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/09/could_more_have_been_done.html#comment-3010353
        
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        October 8, 2021 12:53pm
- crikey
  
  The biggest success of this Labour government is that the curve they have flattened is the economic one.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:56am
  - Bob
    
    economic one;…not flattened crikey but turned steeply downwards.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:12am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Surely in that time we have all learnt how easy it is for a Government to get NZers to comply with illogical orders and nonsense science.
  
  1. Don’t talk to your neighbours
  2. Deep clean every surface in supermarkets/factories etc when we have a respiratory virus being transmitted via fine aerosols
  3. Confine folks indoors in badly ventilated buildings
  4. Refuse to bring in RATesting
  etc
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:06am
  - oldfella
    
    @Maggy, and if visiting friends, don’t crap in your friend’s crapper, stay safe by crapping in a bucket in your friend’s backyard.
    Oh, and ignore any anti-vax crap. Trust us. We know what we’re doing. /s
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:48am
- DeepBlue
  
  But just imagine the GDP boost for Robbo when we do get back up and running. //
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:13am
- Klondike
  
  Yes but Cindy has saved us !
  Saved us from having to go to work because your business or employer has gone bust
  Saved your kids from having to get educated
  Saved you from needing to visit family and loved ones
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:15am
  - Bob
    
    saved you from ‘Loo stops’ during the boring day.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:13am
- Simon
  
  51.3 % double clot shot. 29.1% one clot shot.
  19.6 % unvaxxed.
  
  So why all the covid fear? Do people in general know that the vaxx is mostly warp speed garbage or more likely the panic and fear is part of the gubermint system. Too many are getting off on it.
  
  In a few weeks with double clot shot at 70% then fear should be cut back. But it wont.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:22am
- kowtow
  
  The new NSW premier started well .
  
  He announced a number of normalisation policies and some cheeky prick reporter says ” we have a health crisis”
  
  and he repostes ” yeah and we have an economic crisis”
  
  Brilliant.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:09am
- Albert_Ross
  
  No, we’re not back where we were. The vaccine means that covid is less likely to make us seriously ill and much less likely to kill us. As such, catching covid has been reduced to a risk on a par with ones we live with every day.
  
  The problem for the government is that now large numbers of people believe that covid is still a terrible threat to be avoided at all costs and therefore that it’s headline news and a call to drastic action every time somebody catches it. How they are going to get out of that, I cannot imagine
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Yes.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:19am
dave_c_

What the hell is going on ?

Government are scraping the bottom of the barrel if they think the public can be fooled
into thinking a new ‘Traffic Lights’ system is superior to ‘Levels’ definitions.

Green=Level 2, Orange=Level 3, Red=Level 4

Forget anything representing Level 1 or No Level – Their plan is to keep everyone under the watchful eye of ‘degrees of status’ forever !

Wielding authoritarian power, and controlling every life is part of the endgame.

Pack of noddies, the lot of them.
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October 8, 2021 8:04am
- westernScientest
  
  Na, its the colour of the badges they are going to make us ware, Red = leper, treat like they should be in L4, Orange = gross, generally avoid, green = special people
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:32am
  - oldfella
    
    @WS, isn’t brown the colour for special people?
    Will there be a white badge (for those us us who are not so ‘special;) and what will that mean?
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:52am
    - Ehlana
      
      It will mean that you are a colonial oppressor, possibly of the patriarchy, probably a cisgender TERFish type and climate-denier and can be treated as such.
      
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      October 8, 2021 2:37pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Wear a yellow star
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:38am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Oh damn…
  
  I was just getting used to 3 phased steps…
  
  https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA2110/S00034/auckland-restrictions-eased-in-steps.htm
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:10am
- Nickc2
  
  I’m told she’ll be gone by Christmas. Can we please have an early Christmas this year?
  
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  October 8, 2021 3:57pm
krazykiwi

Very good vid: Give Us Hope, Jacinda
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October 8, 2021 8:05am
- The Boss
  
  Krazykiwi: Absolutely brilliant!
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:25am
- Yabster
  
  Brillant video- send it to all you know- National and Act should pick it up.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:48am
- Nukuleka
  
  Brilliant video. Share it far and wide.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:54am
  - zulumonster
    
    “You’re so woke Jacinda, you’re not the Pope Jacinda!” … brilliant
    
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    October 8, 2021 11:00am
- Sarkozygroupie
  
  That’s awesome! A great watch and I hope people share it.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:46am
Inandout

Every day we seem to ask the question, ‘what influence do the gangs have on this Labour government? It is now becoming scandalous.
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/government-defends-gang-leader-border-exemptions/ar-AAPdfFi?ocid=msedgntp
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October 8, 2021 8:07am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Matthew Hooton has an outstanding column about the gangs, and their reach into certain demographics, in this morning’s Herald. It’s paywalled, but these are his concluding paragraphs:
  
  Sickeningly, it is the criminal gangs who know best about distribution to the hardest-to-reach parts of the 20-34 age group, and persuading them to stick things up their noses and into their arms.
  
  The Wellington bureaucracy will always fail to get those groups to comply. The gangs have better methods of persuasion, including to force compliance with lockdown rules.
  
  The number of Covid cases over the next 14 days and the 20-34-year-old vaccination rate by the end of the month will thus depend materially on the gangs doing their thing.
  
  It is a revolting form of extortion, but your job, your business and whether you get a summer holiday now depend on the gangs’ efforts to persuade their stakeholders to obey the rules and get double-jabbed.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/matthew-hooton-gangs-hold-our-covid-freedom-in-their-hands/MITBDNSSH45S6SBEK2ISXSNL4U/
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:32am
  - Simon
    
    Hooton mad Tory Rupert.
    
    https://twitter.com/MatthewHootonNZ/status/1445106517397540866
    
    Matthew Hooton
    @MatthewHootonNZ
    ·
    Oct 5
    For the record, I think
    @jacindaardern’s decision to move from #COVID19nz level 4 to 3 was a gamble that went wrong, and that we should have moved back to 4 yesterday, staying in #lockdownnz until 23 Dec, assuming 5+s can be vaccinated from early Nov. See
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:02am
  - Simon
    
    Hooton types one of the reasons National are at 25% across from the most useless gubermint in modern Western history.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:03am
  - MCos
    
    Hooten loathes the Ardern Government.
    He also loathes the National Party since he fell flat on his face backing the ill judged Todd Muller leadership coup.
    His columns should be read bearing that in mind.
    His problem is the government, for all it’s flaws is running the country & the National Party is the only alternative in two years time when it’ll be a different world.
    Also the gangs are a reality and they have to be liaised with otherwise the current outbreak will explode, which it hasn’t yet.
    Vaccination rates among Maori is another issue.
    Listening to the radio there’s issues far wider than just gangs. A lot of it centred around distrust of the government, which some folks here would relate to.
    BTW
    I see Hooten is grizzling about going down an alert level!
    People have to earn a buck, Hoots!
    Not everyone can work from home.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:22am
  - kowtow
    
    I don’t agree with the bit where Hooters says things depend on the gangs .
    
    That’s arrant nonsense .
    
    It’s actually totally down to the gubmint. It always has been.
    
    With our very high rates of vax , which aren’t actually that efficacious anyway , it’s now time to accept reality and just get back to full normality .
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:17am
    - zulumonster
      
      Absolutely! And that’s why a cut-off date should be given, where everyone who wants to get jabbed has had more than enough time to get jabbed. If they choose not to that is their choice. Then we move on with life – albeit with some pretty difficult times for our health services.
      No more being held to ransom.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:04am
      - MCos
        
        “some pretty difficult times for our health services.”
        Kind of rolls off the tongue, doesn’t it.
        
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        October 8, 2021 1:01pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  A symbiotic relationship. No doubt the PM’s PR department is providing PR training.
  
  “Waikato Mongrel Mob spokeswoman says its Covid-19 cluster has been resolved and that the narrative demonising gangs is dangerous and needs to stop.
  
  Waikato Mongrel Mob spokesperson Louise Hutchinson denies allegations the gang was distributing methamphetamine across the alert level border in or out of Auckland.”
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-waikato-mongrel-mob-says-cluster-resolved-not-distributing-meth-across-border/5VWVOCCNIP6X2FQ3LUSONOVVVU/
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:18am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Yeah, the Mongrel Mob Kingdom can SAY they are no longer distributing drugs. Instead, they’ve probably outsourced the actual physical delivery to hangers-on and people close to the gang so they can maintain a veneer of plausible deniability!
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:36am
    - oldfella
      
      @TS, I think Cindy uses the same technique. ‘Who, me?”
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:05am
- Scooter
  
  The gangs know they can get away with almost anything and will brazenly keep pushing the boundaries, knowing this Govt will do nothing. Jacinda is a piss weak leader.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:18pm
Tony Stuart

Criticism of the Government from one of its own experts:

The Government has been too slow to adopt rapid Covid-19 tests, a leading expert tasked with reviewing its response has said.

Bolstering surveillance testing is a key recommendation from University of Otago infectious disease expert Professor David Murdoch, who was asked to review the co-ordination of Covid-19 testing and the processes by which tests and testing innovations are assessed and adopted.

“As a country we were too slow to adopt saliva testing and slow to prepare for rapid antigen testing, so we need … a clearly articulated process for how tests are regulated and funded,” said Murdoch, who chairs the Government’s Covid-19 testing technical advisory group, which was set up last month.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126610631/covid19-rapid-antigen-testing-we-were-too-slow-expert-says

The National Party has been calling for the increased use of saliva testing and rapid antigen testing since the beginning of the year, and both were pillars of the Opening Up policy released last week. National has, of course, offered Opening Up to the Government, to implement without delay!

The Government has had a dreadful week with Covid, starting with a trainwreck of a 4pm stand-up on Monday (although not as much of a trainwreck as Julie Anne Genter’s last night!), and one can understand why the PM chose to go to the Bay of Plenty yesterday, instead of front the 1pm presser. Getting slagged off by their own hand-picked expert is simply the icing on a cake, guaranteed to leave a bad taste in the mouth!
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October 8, 2021 8:16am
- Stu2
  
  MoH has been slow at more than this.
  
  Just a couple
  
  Remember when there wasn’t a proper regime for conforming border workers were being tested. What the Ministers were claiming was happening was what they wanted to happen, rather than what was happening.
  
  Border worker vaccinations – rinse and repeat
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:40am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Agree wholeheartedly, but this review was specifically directed at saliva & rapid antigen testing.
    
    I’m still living in hope that there will eventually be a Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Government’s response to Covid, given it is already the single most expensive event in New Zealand’s history.
    
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    October 8, 2021 8:56am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Why would JA set up this review last month when this outcome was known (Politics 101)? I can only assume JA incorrectly believed the outcome would be glowing towards her.
      
      This proves that she is contained within such a sycophantic bubble of advisors, she has now outdone the ‘Emporer with no Clothes.’
      
      Maybe getting out to the provinces might turn out to be a good thing when she sees first hand how futile 90% actually is. Noting the secret new traffic light system actually takes 90% out of the equation.
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:29am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  “and one can understand why the PM chose to go to the Bay of Plenty yesterday,”
  
  Old stamping ground of Murapara may not have been the place to go:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126613489/covid19-pfizer-and-some-verbal-jabs-as-pm-jacinda-ardern-tours-vaccination-sites
  
  “On the Murupara leg of her visit three protesters appeared while Ardern was being welcomed, with signs proclaiming “freedom of choice” and “informed decision”.
  They were chanting: “what do we want, freedom, when do we want it, now”.”
  “Go home and take the jab with you,” said one
  
  Only three people, but then again Murapara not a big place.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:56am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    There’s a story on Stuff about her roadtrip, with a photo showing her apparently cooking snarlers on a BBQ. Look closely, and all the knobs on the BBQ are switched off!
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:38am
    - Sarkozygroupie
      
      Cooking with gas!
      
      Or not.
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:56am
    - DeepBlue
      
      I saw that the sausages weren’t sizzling… this image might become JA’s equivalent meme of Cunliffe’s 2 dead fish.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:17am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        The dead snapper were actually David Shearer, Cunliffe’s predecessor. Cunliffe apologised for being a man!
        
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        October 8, 2021 10:44am
    - kowtow
      
      Ah the road trip .
      
      Mrs kowtow was wondering where the hell she had got to .
      
      The key is in this sentence
      
      “Ardern was due to front the Covid-19 press conference on Thursday, but left Wellington for an unexpected whistle-stop tour to promote the vaccine.”
      
      Her Spinmasters realised that after last weekend when the virus finally truly came riding over the hills and blew apart their whole elimination startegy the best thing to do was get out of Dodge City and leave the minions to field all the hard questions about the end of said policy and why ( uncontrolled gangsters breaching every rule in the book that the rest of us were following)
      
      After a week of these Fall Guys taking it up the bum and the rest of us getting used to the end of the policy she’ll return to the throne room , the heat will have gone off the otherwise useless Media Pack and all will again be well in the Privy Chamber .
      
      Oh and she’ll be seen to have done her part prior to the Big Push to get us over the line.
      
      Berlin by Christmas , and her idiot low information voters will still be impressed with her sacrifices on the road ……..
      
      …….and the Media will let it pass.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:29am
  - Sacha
    
    That’s 3 more than anywhere else I think?
    It might be the beginning of a ‘swell’ . . . .
    “go home and take the jab with you”. Nice.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:40am
  - I remember when
    
    Hope she was wearing the right coloured clothing.
    They aren’t usually that polite.
    
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    October 8, 2021 2:46pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  How do we know any saliva testing is reliable?
  The mPCR at 40X is derided by the WHO and still is used here. What and how is the saliva effectively looking for?
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:35am
Stu2

I’ve been following covid in Australia rather than the Uk, Israel, Sweden.. as their society is very similar to ours, and they have used the same closed border/MIQ/lockdown/slow vaccine rollout mix.

I put these numbers up late yesterday but they are worth repeating, they tell a tale.

A few numbers from NSW on Thursday
They hit 70% double dose on Wednesday and are about 90% single dose

190 in ICU, break down:
Double dose – 1.6%
Single dose – 17.6%
Unvaccinated – 80.8%

The unvaccinated are vastly over represented.
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October 8, 2021 8:17am
- Benedict Yu
  
  It would be interesting to break the 190 in ICU down by age.
  
  The three vaccinated people in ICU are likely to be very old and or very vulnerable.
  
  If the trend is like the USA, a large proportion of the 187 unvaccinated people in the ICUs will be people aged between 50 and 70, many with other risk factors like smoking etc. There will not be many very elderly unvaccinated because there are simply too few of them.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:54am
  - Stu2
    
    This is from Sept 29th, NSW deaths are very much the elderly
    
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-29/why-a-small-number-of-fully-vaccinated-people-have-died-of-covid/100497770
    
    But across Australia many cases are 20-39 year olds (and quite a few 0-9)
    
    https://www.health.gov.au/resources/covid-19-cases-by-age-group-and-sex
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:58am
    - Ed Snack
      
      In that 0-9 age group, Covid is a hell of a lot less dangerous than RSV. Funny, but I must have missed all the publicity and effort over RSV.
      
      More children have died of RSV in NZ in the past year than anyone dying from Covid.
      
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      October 8, 2021 12:42pm
artemisia

Wellington City Council is still in big trouble with its ‘social housing’ and pressing for a massive government bailout. Have to wonder if they are incompetent property managers. Rent charged Is 70% of market rent, and at first blush that looks like a problem for ongoing costs, maintenance, administration.

Really? Plenty of the housing is decades old so ingoing costs long since recovered, or should be. There was a huge handout ($220 million) in 2007 from central government for upgrades with a further commitment from the council of $180 million to complete the upgrades. Long spent, upgrades not completed.

Recent new development built by council and leased to Kainga Ora for social housing, with taxpayer rent subsidies for tenants.

Thing is, a predicted deficit of hundreds of millions
when 70% of market rents have been paid for years if not decades does not pass the competence sniff text.

One tenant Is interviewed in the article saying her flat is tiny, freezing and rundown. That also does not pass the sniff test and there is no sign the journalist asked relevant questions. A tiny flat should not be hard to heat, unless there are structural issues that the landlord / council should fix anyway. Of course, the Finance Minister himself advised unhappy tenants to ‘look elsewhere’, and why not?

http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/126606816/twotier-social-housing-system-unfair-and-completely-unnecessary
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October 8, 2021 8:18am
- zulumonster
  
  “Have to wonder if they are incompetent” … the last two words of that sentence were redundant
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:15am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Social housing rents are discounted throughout NZ.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:37am
Warren

While I don’t agree with people narking on others over the lockdowns you have to ask yourself has the Police been compromised or is there a rule for some and not for others.
Why would Clover Park Resident Craig Bridwell forgo having his name published to say that breaches of the rules are happening on a daily if there was no truth to it and why would he state the Police just do nothing about it if it wasn’t happening.
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/ldr/453053/clover-park-resident-says-lockdown-breaches-are-out-of-control
Where is the Prime Minister who names and shames others when it suits her but does nothing when it is there right in front of her eyes that many others can see.
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October 8, 2021 8:19am
Frank the tank

Question for an idle Friday.

Could we not as a country pursue an “elimination” strategy with organized crime and gangs. Of course an elimination strategy doesn’t mean zero gang members it just means when they appear in the community we can “stamp them out”
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October 8, 2021 8:21am
- Inandout
  
  Frank, when you cut off supply there are consequences, regardless of the business.
  https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-09-28/why-is-the-uk-experiencing-a-fuel-petrol-shortage/100496438
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:29am
  - Frank the tank
    
    I don’t get your point nor your analogy?
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:58am
fernglas

From the rigorous intellect of Health researcher Dr Rawiri Taonui:
“Asked what he thought the current overall full vaccination rate among Māori was now, he said: “Just over 30 per cent. It’s lower than what the Government says.
Taonui said a person who is unvaccinated is 27 times more likely to be get infected by Covid, compared to a person who is fully vaccinated. An unvaccinated person is 80 to 90 times more likely to be hospitalised, based on general figures.”

This is absolute bullshit.

Taonui then goes on to say:
“If we start seeing more than 50 cases a day and then maybe 100, then we’re looking at a very serious situation akin to 1918.

“Akin to 1918 – the Spanish flu – in my opinion. I don’t want to be right, but I think that that’s what the numbers are starting to tell us.”

This gets into the Herald, which is supposed to be a responsible news outlet. It seems that it is fine to print bullshit if it scares people, but the truth is suppressed if it doesn’t.
The Spanish Flu killed 10% of those infected. But that doesn’t seem to bother the Herald, which is obviously trying to achieve its 90% vaccine target and has no qualms about printing palpable lies to scare people into it.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-delta-outbreak-new-case-in-northland-two-cases-on-north-shore-lowest-vaccination-areas-in-auckland-revealed/
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October 8, 2021 8:22am
- fernglas
  
  From the only marginally less rigorous intellect of Judith Collins:
  
  “When this happens, if you are not vaccinated, you will probably get Covid-19.
  
  You will probably get sick. You will go through weeks of severe pain. You could face long-term health issues such as chronic fatigue. If your lungs are damaged you may forever find it hard to exercise or work.
  
  And Covid could kill you.
  
  If you get vaccinated you might face a day or so of discomfort. If you don’t, there is a risk of death.
  
  That is the equation you face.”
  
  I have had Covid, Judith. I am 65, and I’ve had worse hangovers. Where I live, most of the teen population have had it and didn’t even know. If National’s approach to this is to bullshit even more than Labour, then they are even more spineless than their poll figures suggest.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/pou-tiaki/300425699/covid19-delta-is-coming-get-vaccinated-now
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:38am
  - ecco
    
    I don’t blame Collins for taking this stance. It is shown by the numbers around the world of unvaccinated hitting the hospitals that you are better off being vaccinated than not.
    
    NZ elections are won by claiming the middle ground and taking the anti vaxx stance would undoubtedly put them under the 20% mark in the polls and ultimately the election.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:28am
    - fernglas
      
      I’m not suggesting they take an anti-vax position, just be honest, but that seems to be a quality in short supply at the moment
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:38am
    - bronny1
      
      wrong. The more lies they tell, the further beyond the back of the queue I go. I know many people who feel the same.
      
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      October 8, 2021 1:22pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Dr Rawiri Taonui does not have medical qualifications.
  His background is in Maori Studies/ Social sciences.
  
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  October 8, 2021 1:02pm
  - Jack5
    
    Taonui was head of Canterbury University’s School of Maori and Indigenous Studies:
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/4366846/Outspoken-Rawiri-Taonui-resigns
    
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    October 8, 2021 2:43pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Shapiro educates a liberal.
https://rumble.com/vnd0ih-ben-shapiro-educates-clueless-liberal-on-taxes.html?
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October 8, 2021 8:24am
Argonath

Hi all, if anyone just wants some good politically incorrect humour then check out Sugar Sammy, king of improvisation humour. I found him hilarious.

https://www.youtube.com/user/Sugarsammy
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October 8, 2021 8:30am
ecco

Did anyone see Toxic Tova’s coverage of the Ferald’s business survey on the Three news last night? She chose to totally ignore the ratings drop (3.9/5 down to 3.0/5) and significant dissatisfaction with Ardern by the business leaders. They roundly panned Ardern in their survey comments for being a stunned mullet for not reacting to the changed covid conditions.

Instead Toxic chose to angle the story that some of the business leaders were calling for Judith to step down. In contrast, HDPA read out a lot of these criticisms of Ardern on the Drive show last night.

Of course the business survey results article by Fran O’Sullivan in the Ferald were buried in the business section of the Ferald and hidden behind a paywall so not too many of the general public would see it.

I’ve no doubt any incoming National leader would not be given a fair rap by the msm due to the tentacles Ardern has round them with her media bribe fund. Ardern’s such a contradiction in terms calling for people to be kind yet inciting organised bullying of the opposition by the msm via the media bribe fund mechanism.

Has anyone noticed the groundswell of business leaders going public on the dismal performance of Ardern in helping business get through this pandemic?.

It’s obvious a group of those business leaders have gone to the government and said ‘f**k you’ we have gone ahead and ordered 370k of antigen test kits, whether you like it or not. Now Verall has been chucked out there to try and look like they are front footing this and say they’ll trial antigen test kits. Of course it will be at the government’s usual glacial speed.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/mood-of-the-boardroom-labours-stars-take-a-tumble/3PF6WH5MOWRB7WHGTYEF2XJ27Q/
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October 8, 2021 8:30am
- Tony Stuart
  
  It’s interesting and telling the O’Brien didn’t mention a single Labour Minister in this outright hit piece against Collins. She could, for example, have used the quote from a food industry CEO: “If there was a score lower than 1, I would give it to Faafoi.”.
  
  Remarkably, Faafoi was not even the lowest ranking Minister, on 2.17/5. Behind him were Michael Wood, Marama Davidson, Carmel Sepuloni, Poto Williams, Phil Twyford, and the worst of all, Kelvin Davis, who rated 1.73/5.
  
  Instead, O’Brien made it partisan, to continue her vitriol against National and Collins. Having run a vicious campaign against Simon Bridges, O’Brien didn’t really have time to get properly stuck into Todd Muller, but she has made up for lost time since Judith Collins became the National leader. Before another leadership change, National needs to understand that, whoever is elected, they’re not going to get a fair suck of the sav from Newshub.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:17am
  - ecco
    
    Bridge on the AM show is a good interviewer IMHO, along with Michael Morrah, somewhat balancing out the crap from Toxic Tova. However Cam Wallace, the hitman bought in at Mediaworks must be sanctioning all these news story angles on Three.
    
    TT and TV One’s Jessica (‘I’m married to Ardern’s bodyguard’) Mutch-McKay are dangerous pieces of work out there. Not sure you can overcome obstacles like that if you are National or even Act.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:35am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Indeed.
    
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    October 8, 2021 11:40am
  - I remember when
    
    Tony Stuart:
    The worrying thing for Kelvin is that he has actually seemed better of late,
    
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    October 8, 2021 2:39pm
Yvette

Similar to a question yesterday, but perhaps more needing an answer now as the Government endeavours to encourage Māori to be vaccinated –

If, the Government has targeted Māori health as a priority area for spending in Budget 2021, and allocated $242.8 million for the sector, and that includes $98 million to set up the new Māori Health Authority (MHA), why can the principles, the precise tikanga that justifies this committed spending, not be applied to the present priority to ensure as many Māori as possible are vaccinated?

tikanga – Māori customary practices or behaviours, that which is correct
Tikanga Maori Values are outlined here –
https://www.r2r.org.nz/maori-health/tikanga-maori-values.html

I would sincerely suggest, however, that if the answer to the present need to engage all Māori in their vaccination is not available in the principles to establish the new Māori Health Authority, that Authority has no valid ‘authority’, and the entire exercise is unfounded political correctness and a vast cultural misappropriation.
If the values behind the new Māori Health Authority are valid, they should serve Māori now, so the very people they hope to cater for, will be around to use it.
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October 8, 2021 8:35am
ecco

Since Monday’s announcement of the claytons loosening of alert levels in the Auckland area nothing material has actually changed in the Auckland settings apart from the ‘picnic’ clause.

It’s clear that it’s the gangs circulating around and spreading the virus despite Hipkins ‘lack of knowledge’ of the details when asked. He knows 100% who is spreading this around and thus locking down 1.7m Auckland population for a gut busting 8 weeks. The long suffering Aucklanders have been sold another pup by Ardern in Monday’s podium of truth.
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October 8, 2021 8:43am
Ruahine

I am beginning to think that the quicker we all get the bloody virus so that we can all move on with living a life the better it would be.
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October 8, 2021 8:44am
- crikey
  
  And with, as a consequence, better long-term immunity.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:34am
- Aquataur
  
  Absolutely agree – get the virus and get on with life.
  
  For once in my life, I am glad there are outlaws who disobey the rules
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:13pm
Cinematic

Sounds like NSW will be the latest to dump the silly vaccine passport idea.
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October 8, 2021 8:44am
- ABS4EVA
  
  No it will not HE IS A CATHOLIC
  and will be hounded by Anti Christian Scum of the Earth about all their WHACK JOB theories based
  on SOCIALIST SCIENCE.
  
  Like Cardinal Pell who was cleaning out the Communist Filth from the Church
  
  Fake Accusation will be cooked up about
  “Something”
  
  Just WAIT.
  
  Meanwhile DAN ANDREWS who pretends to be
  a Secular Socialist CATHOLIC will get a
  GREEN PASS by the Communist Press of Australia
  
  ABC
  Australian’s Broadcasting COMMUNISM
  
  Australia’s ABC are an Organisation that
  Marx or Stalin would approve of.
  
  He is a Family focussed WHITE MALE
  the Guy is FINISHED.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:06am
Bridgenag

https://youtu.be/VxKY6WGaL54 worth watching. At least some are trying to get through to the younger ones
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October 8, 2021 8:47am
Maggie Pie

‘Peak Jacinda’…….are we there yet?
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October 8, 2021 8:48am
- pdm
  
  MP – bloody well hope we are over the peak and she is now on the slippery slope down the other side.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:54am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Strong rumor circulating round the tennis club that she will step down early in the new year,
    Can’t blame the poor gal to be honest.
    You heard it here first.
    
    21 1
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    October 8, 2021 9:16am
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      Does the Tennis Club have a Spy on the 9th Floor???
      
      or a Mole in the Cabinet???
      
      14 1
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      October 8, 2021 9:27am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        😀 😀 😀
        
        7 1
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        October 8, 2021 9:38am
      - artemisia
        
        I’m picking pillow talk.
        
        6 1
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        October 8, 2021 10:23am
    - Inandout
      
      MP, you do realise who is deputy at this stage? Your club would be abuzz with rumour and speculation on which womens’ magazine would be first to run an article.
      
      11 1
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      October 8, 2021 9:34am
    - DeepBlue
      
      Oh yes, the wedding. We all thought it was to boost her leadership, but of course it could be her Women’s Day swan song.
      
      12 0
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      October 8, 2021 9:39am
    - crikey
      
      I must have missed the announcement about a UN vacancy.
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:51am
    - NoFax
      
      TBH I can see it happening but I have heard this before and I am not holding my breath.
      
      Are you able to elaborate further?
      
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      October 8, 2021 9:59am
    - cas
      
      Well don’t bet on Robbo just stepping in. I suspect Chippie will be encouraged by his time in the spotlight and put his hand up.
      
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      October 8, 2021 10:50am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I think the coming economic tsunami from prices etc will be too much for her to face. She simply won’t be able to control it.
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:44am
  - ecco
    
    We can only but hope.
    
    Saw Ardern doing her vaccine walkabout on the news last night. Close up her eyes looked tired.
    All this negative publicity, here and around the world, wouldn’t be doing her chances any good at that UN gig she’s aiming for. Especially if she leaves NZ bankrupt in the process and probably beholden to the CCP.
    
    The Telegraph UK has the best articles on Ardern ?. Their -uncensored- commenters are just brilliant, always worth a read, their take on Ardern, if you need cheering up.
    
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    October 8, 2021 10:45am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Hell yes! Then again, I was there even before the 2017 General Election!
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:40am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Get used to the most commonly asked question of the future…..
    Papers please?
    
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    October 8, 2021 5:24pm
I remember when

A New Road Map for our covid response.
It appears to lean heavily towards removing the ability to drive unimpeded.
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October 8, 2021 8:56am
washo

Welcome to the club. I have felt like that for 30 years.
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October 8, 2021 9:00am
all true

Ernst Wolff interviewed by three young Auckland woman living in Auckland
https://odysee.com/@voicesforfreedom:6/Freedom-TV-Ernst-Wolff:6
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October 8, 2021 9:08am
Tony Stuart

Check out this video from Erica Stanford’s Twitter feed where her guest, Prof Des Gorman, describes the Government’s response on vaccination, testing and surveillance as “breathtakingly complacent”and that we “didn’t learn, couldn’t learn, wouldn’t learn, apart from a small group of people in Wellington”.

https://twitter.com/EricaStanfordMP/status/1446206273154793493

It’s little wonder now that the Left slags off Prof Gorman at every opportunity, when he was one of the few experts to see and to state that the Emporess had no clothes on!
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October 8, 2021 9:29am
- oldfella
  
  @TS: has our Wahangu Wahine finally lost her ‘korowai of koretake’? (What’s Te Reo for ‘I f—ing hope so’?)
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:21am
- Peter Lane
  
  That was half an hour or so well spent. Des talks so much sense but of course he’s sidelined by the current mob because he doesn’t fit their narrative.
  
  Big thing I got out if it is STOP SCARING PEOPLE.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:25am
Scooter

So Jacinda is visiting Gisborne again, she seems to go there alot compared to other towns, wouldn’t have anything to do with family she has there would it?
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October 8, 2021 9:29am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Hope she hasn’t brought the virus with her..
  It’d be terrible for Gizzy to go in lockdown over the wedding season.
  
  Our Gardens are looking Fab at the moment.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:48am
Toko

https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/campus/%E2%80%98meritocracy%E2%80%99-barrier-fair-student-selection
If you are a smart Pakeha or Asian kid, why would you bother applying for Med school at Otago now? You’re clearly not wanted, as entry seems to be based on feels not facts for certain groups. This means greatly reduced places for other students, who may have been under the mistaken colonialist impression that university rewarded talent, effort and achievement.
These efforts to socially engineer a science based faculty won’t won’t end well.
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October 8, 2021 9:34am
- dcrane
  
  We’re such a smug, neo-racist little hermit kingdom.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Head for Melbourne Uni if you can afford $100,000/year.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:51am
- bronny1
  
  My friend’s lad got an average of 94% in the intermediate year. He didn’t make it into med school. Because white, well off parents, high decile school, urban. You need the opposite of at least one of those to have a chance.
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:50pm
Maggie Pie

When a bestie retweeted this yesterday I thought twice about sharing….

but what the hell, it’s Friday 😛

https://twitter.com/HarryBStard/status/1445903877031677953
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October 8, 2021 9:34am
- Sacha
  
  Too much information – I really didn’t need to know that on a Friday morning, lol.
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:48am
- oldfella
  
  @Maggie. Ouch. If I’d said that I’d have got a week in the KB sin bin. But bloody funny!
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:24am
I remember when

Taranaki Regional Council: Chairman’s Annual Report 2020/1:
The four headlines in the Report were –
* Riparian Management gets a boost
* More and better bus services
* Three Waters Reforms
* Long-Term Plan consultation
Among points mentioned in the summary were Jobs for Nature, Predfator-Free Taranaki, Government’s Essential Freshwater package, Resource Management Act and the review of the future for local government as well as more meaningful Maori representation.
Can’t wait for the Government to start becoming more involved in local government.
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October 8, 2021 9:38am
- RW Capitalist
  
  So
  
  A job killer….council to run on ….fresh air?
  
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  October 8, 2021 5:23pm
Jimbob

Heard through the grape vine, that the middle vote in New Zealand will not be taken by National until Collins is replaced. These voters will not vote for her under any circumstances. So until she is replaced, Labour will win the net election.
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October 8, 2021 9:48am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Fraser House Basement is not an approved source of rumour.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:47am
Sacha

Poor Jacinda. She must know by now that her popularity is shrinking.
But after I read about the 3 protesters at Kawerau it suddenly occurred to me that she could take a vaxxer’s training course, and do a national celebrity tour. All the hesitants would be sure to rock up and get the jab.
She’s got nothing to lose really .
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October 8, 2021 9:56am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Dr Shane Reti has already beaten her to that. He’s been out vaccinating all week, and will be again next week, being a Registered Medical Practitioner, and all that
  
  https://twitter.com/NZNationalParty/status/1445869959830065152
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:55am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

Dunedin man from Tuvalu may be deported, after being convicted of sliding ‘camera-phone’ under Women’s Toilet cubicle.

When apprehended, tells police……”he wasn’t sure if he had entered the correct Convenience, so pushed camera under partition to check”

As you do. LOL!!

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1446170835576889350

(I know what I would have done to his phone 😀 )
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October 8, 2021 10:01am
- Ed Snack
  
  Should’ve made sure he was doing that to an important but I sufficiently progressive politician. Then it would have been A OK, it comes with the territory according to creepy Joe.
  
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  October 8, 2021 12:54pm
laika57

Interesting comments on BBC this morning concerning our covid actions. Not that flattering
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/w172xxxqyhxjrv7
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October 8, 2021 10:06am
- fightingtemeraire
  
  There have been several artcles in the UK Daily Mail and Daily Telegraph in the last week none of which were flattering and the Comments section even less so.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:53am
Liberal Cliche

You ready for your next round of fear and new restrictions sheep?

Not going anywhere without your “Climate passport”

“Google and YouTube prohibit “climate deniers” from being able to monetize their content on their platforms from now on.

https://www.axios.com/google-youtube-climate-change-734f2b05-40e2-4e05-9100-39de589b3b0a.html
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October 8, 2021 10:07am
- Ehlana
  
  I’m surprised people who deny we have a climate can operate computers…
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:25pm
Fletch

The latest official technical briefing by Public Health England around the virus, etc. Check out pages 19 and 20 with table 5 –

Table 5. Attendance to emergency care and deaths of sequenced and genotyped Delta cases in England by vaccination status
(1 February 2021 to 12 September 2021)

Look at page 20 specifically regarding deaths from the Delta variant – all deaths 2,542, unvaccinated deaths, 722. That means 1,820 were fully vaxxed = many more deaths in the vaccinated.
That’s how many sites are interpreting the data. Thoughts?

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1018547/Technical_Briefing_23_21_09_16.pdf
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October 8, 2021 10:08am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s probably a statistical thing…
  
  At the start of the outbreaks (2020 and early 2021) most folks weren’t vaccinated… so the unvaccinated turn up in droves as they get infected and sick….
  
  During 2021 the majority of the population become vaccinated… but some still become infected and sick… so now the majority presenting at hospital are the vaccinated sick.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:58am
  - bronny1
    
    Delta wasn’t around in 2020 and early 2021. These are delta deaths.
    
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    October 8, 2021 2:52pm
- Ed Snack
  
  That’s probably a lower proportion of deaths than the vaccinated are in the general population though.
  
  And there’s age stratification to consider, the unvaccinated are overwhelming more likely to be young and hence less likely to have a really severe case of Covid and die.
  
  So the numbers don’t really show anything exceptional except that, as we know, the vaccination is most definitely not absolute protection against Covid. But it probably does provide some measure of protection against catching and against getting more severe symptoms. That applies especially to the elderly and the vulnerable.
  
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  October 8, 2021 12:57pm
Aquataur

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTIONS

I see that iwi checkpoints are to be used at the Taranaki/Waikato border.

1. Will iwi members have to go thru a police check before they can man these ‘road blocks’?

2. Will anyone with criminal convictions be allowed to man these ‘road blocks’?

3. Will anyone with gang connections be allowed to man these ‘road blocks’?

4. Does under ‘police supervision’ actually mean police are on site or just a ‘phone call’ away?
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October 8, 2021 10:14am
- Yabster
  
  yep another law snuck in very recently in the name of covid response- complete rubbish.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:05am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Under what authority are there any road blocks?
  It can’t be stop and search or road traffic. It must be under health. Where is the authority for random stopping there?
  
  We are not yet a Police State –or are we?
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:52am
  - Aquataur
    
    The law allowing iwi to do this was snuck in the latest Covid legislation update
    
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    October 8, 2021 12:09pm
    - Yabster
      
      correct -introduced late Sept
      
      From Hobsons Choice:
      
      Legalised iwi checkpoints part of He Puapua
      Self-declared iwi “border controls” will become lawful under clause 12 of the COVID-19 Public Health Response Amendment Bill (No 2) introduced on September 21. See http://www.pco.govt.nz/covid-19-legislation/
      
      Maori and Pasifika wardens, a nominated representative of an iwi organisation, or community patrollers, will have the legal authority to run roadblocks/checkpoints under the supervision of a constable,
      
      This is an extraordinary situation, where iwi members with no qualification other than their ancestry will be empowered to stop other New Zealanders going about their lawful business. This looks like He Puapua in action.
      
      He Puapua is the name of a plan for a radical revision of our government into two racially divided spheres, one by Maori for Maori and the other, a fully bi-cultural set-up for everyone else.
      
      Page 65 of the plan advocates law changes that would enable Maori to control access to and management of all lands and resources within their districts.
      
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      October 8, 2021 12:35pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It’s racist. The whole of the Amendment Bill is rather woolly in its drafting and may occasion some legal argument.
      Not kapai, the Police State of New Tyranny.
      
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      October 8, 2021 3:57pm
- Tauhei Notts
  
  A mate from Putaruru had to go to Whangarei. he got all the paperwork. The checkpoint at Mercer was a cool, efficient, precise and courteous operation, both on the way north and on the way south.
  The checkpoint at Te Hana was run by two cops and about forty obese wardens. It was as is to be expected. A total embarrassment. A 30 minute hold up each way, whilst carloads of people known to the Wardens went straight through.
  
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  October 8, 2021 1:25pm
Fletch

Perhaps more doctors need to do this. A doctor takes a panel of blood tests of a patient before the vaccine, then after the first shot, then after the second shot. The result? After the second shot his immunity is pretty much tanked. He has autoimmunity. Almost like an HIV patient.

“His adaptive immune system has absolutely tanked. Adaptive immune system, CD4, CD8, natural killer cells, his b lymphocytes – all of those things have actually just gotten pummeled within the month.”

“So if you said, ‘Hey, look at this lab and what does it tell you?’ I would look at this lab and in two seconds I would say this person has autoimmunity. Let me say it again: this person has autoimmunity.”

“…This body is trying to handle some kind of tissue damage, but also the very thing that’s designed to handle things like cancer cells…has absolutely tanked.”

https://assets.infowarsmedia.com/videos/8f1b28a1-eb3c-47c3-8aa8-abb35aa0411f.mp4

Tell me again why this vaccine is such a good idea.
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October 8, 2021 10:15am
krazykiwi

Here is Safe and Effective™ for you:

In recent years, the German public received 40 million vaccinations annually, administered to protect them from influenza, mumps, measles, and other long-established illnesses.

In any given year, approximately 20 people die within 14 days of vaccination. Between January and July 2021, following the introduction of the COVID-19 vaccines, 80-90 million vaccinations (of any sort) were administered – and 1,230 people died within two weeks of injection.

This is a 20-fold rise in vaccine-related deaths within a short amount of time, even after considering that vaccination numbers have doubled.
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October 8, 2021 10:36am
- krazykiwi
  
  If you fronted for your annual flu jab and was told this year’s therapy was very flash, everyone was raving about it, and it had a 20x rate of unexpected deaths (and cira 100x non-death severe side effects) .. would you have it?
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:39am
- Fletch
  
  To add to that, it looks like the CDC is lying about death numbers in the U.S. An archived version of their site from July this year shows –
  
  More than 338 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through July 19, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 12,313 reports of death (0.0036%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine
  
  https://web.archive.org/web/20210720210229/http://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
  
  But right now, the same site shows –
  
  More than 396 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through October 4, 2021. During this time, VAERS received 8,390 reports of death (0.0021%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine.
  
  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/vaccines/safety/adverse-events.html
  
  So, somehow there are less deaths over a longer time period? Yeh right. They are playing with the numbers.
  
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  October 8, 2021 10:40am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    0.1% of people die of natural causes every month. How do you separate out the vaccine death ‘signal’ from the natural ‘noise’?
    
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    October 8, 2021 11:13am
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      If it can be done with ease as covid, surely can be done with vaccine.
      
      Died with covid
      Died with vaccine
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:46am
      - Fletch
        
        To add to that, apparently they do not count a person as being officially “vaccinated” until 14 days after the shot. Thus, if a person has the shot and dies within day 1 to day 13 they are counted as unvaccinated.
        
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        October 8, 2021 12:17pm
    - dcrane
      
      Urban: With any given case one can never really know, but if you examine the cases overall in light of historical trends in causes of death, you will be able to do so in aggregate, once there are enough observations. Or at least formulate a reasonable case for studying the potential problem. That’s all VAERS is meant to do anyway, since it doesn’t produce systematically gathered data (it’s just voluntary).
      
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      October 8, 2021 11:48am
- dcrane
  
  @krazykiwi The first thing that comes to mind in reading your post is that in an ordinary year there isn’t a novel pandemic moving through the population. So a large increase in associated deaths compared to a normal year could be due to that, in principle anyway. It would depend on what the causes of death were. Anyway, this is just a general point.
  
  At minimum, to me there is a reasonable case that serious cardiovacular complications are considerably more common with these vaccines (or some of them) than with previous ones.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:56am
Gravelroad

Letter received today:
Dear valued …. Customer
This letter is to advise you of upcoming changes to your LPG (household) price which will take effect from 15/10/21.
Global Gas Cost Increases
The current energy environment has again increased input costs to our business, with a further rise in our gas costs.
Additionally, the cost of carbon trading units in the New Zealand Emissions Trading Scheme has been significantly increasing..
Effective 15/10/21 your current price will increase by $10.35 per cylinder inc GST.

Nice.
Inflation on the doorstep.
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October 8, 2021 10:44am
- Southern Raider
  
  No different to 6 weeks ago being separately advised natural gas increases and the next day electricity increases for usage and lines
  
  Add rates increases, petrol gone up about 10 cents in last 2 months
  
  There is significant headwind facing NZ households and this is only the start
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:09am
  - RW Capitalist
    
    Does that mean that, this govt.s focus on EV subsidies, is a” let them eat cake” moment.
    
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    October 8, 2021 1:44pm
dcrane

In case anyone is at a loss for ideas as to the next step taken with vaccine passports, meet the flu/covid “twindemic”:

https://www.courant.com/coronavirus/hc-news-coronavirus-flu-shot-covid-vaccine-20211007-2xokwjnmujdkhe2mfhwg6m7zpm-story.html
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October 8, 2021 10:50am
Southern Raider

Now the Herald is claiming we are facing 1918 all other again.

No we aren’t. There was no vaccination for the Spanish Flu and we didn’t have the medical systems we know have in our hospitals

If people choose not to get vaccinated when they can that is there problem
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October 8, 2021 11:05am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  How many levels of fear are we on today boys and girls?.
  
  Need to up those numbers.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:19am
- kowtow
  
  That flu killed the young and healthy , in huge numbers.
  
  This one , not nearly .
  
  More lies and propaganda from the Media Pardy , bought and paid for .
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:21am
  - krazykiwi
    
    It predominantly killed the young because many of the old had enduring antibody immunity as a result of surviving the 1889-1890 Russian Flu
    
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    October 8, 2021 2:19pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Imagine a world without covid. Every week you have a certain non-zero risk of death from various causes, accidents, strokes, heart attacks, cancer etc.
  
  For a vaccinated person that is your approximate total risk of death from catching covid. It’s fuck all, about 2% increase above baseline yearly deaths if everyone is vaccinated and everyone catches covid.
  
  Even with the appalling failure to grow hospital capacity in last 18 months there is really nothing to stress about. People are going to die yes, but for vaxxed it’s way down in the noise, and putting everyone’s life on hold and individual’s and countries economic health in peril to forestall deaths of ~1000 mostly octogenarians is not worth the price. Unvaxxed should be free to take their chances.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:46am
- cmm
  
  One of the biggest difference is that there were not PCR tests back then.
  
  This means that when people were diagnosed they were actually sick with symptoms. When they were classified as deaths then they had symptoms too.
  
  With CV19, the majority of people being caught by PCR testing are symptom free (or just mild sniffles).
  
  Thus, comparing the numbers is not apples-to-apples.
  
  Still, the Spanish Flu was arguably 300x worse than CV19. The majority of people that died were in their 20s and 30s leaving a huge demographic hole in the population. Tens of thousands of orphans.
  
  Obesity is a major factor in CV19 outcomes. There were very few obese people 100 years ago.
  
  So to try say that CV19 is anywhere like Spanish Flu is completely irresponsible fearmongering.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:54am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What if the problem is actually the vaccinated? I notice the contrary evidence for the ADE concerns.
  This next 6 months will be very revealing.
  Time to get your vit. D and basic health up to date.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:57am
- Ed Snack
  
  Yeah, but you are going to see a host of cases of Covid amongst the fully Vaxxed as well.
  
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  October 8, 2021 1:01pm
- Bridgenag
  
  What…. the Ferald subsidised by this fiasco of a gov.
  
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  October 8, 2021 1:50pm
Yvette

HHS [US Department of Health and Human Services] takes a different approach with new ad to encourage vaccines
HHS to launch edgy new campaign for vaccines.playing on fear
video accompanying an article “Studies confirm waning immunity from Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine”
https://us.cnn.com/2021/10/06/health/pfizer-vaccine-waning-immunity/index.html

The US ad campaign in simpler terms seems to say “GET VACCINATED OR YOU WILL FUCKING DIE”
and in New Zealand: your portion of your whakapapa will die along with you.

There are probably enough dire cases (like the gasping Pacifika victim shown on 1-News a couple of weeks back) to make such an ad campaign pertinent here.

The actual article indicates that Jacinda Ardern’s Government has a limited window of the vaccinated population being able to contend with any general covid exposure (“opening the country” or infiltration of the virus, as is possibly occurring right now) before the window closes on that population’s vaccine efficacy. Waiting for all Maori to be vaccinated may close that window too late.
Then the Government is faced with boosters and breakthrough infections.

A CNN article (a warning for those who may allow bias to outweigh gleaning what may be fact)
Two real-world studies published Wednesday confirm that the immune protection offered by two doses of Pfizer’s Covid-19 vaccine drops off after two months or so, although protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death remains strong.

The studies, from Israel and from Qatar and published in the New England Journal of Medicine, support arguments that even fully vaccinated people need to maintain precautions against infection.

… Laith Abu-Raddad of Weill Cornell Medicine-Qatar and colleagues wrote. “The waning appears to accelerate after the fourth month, to reach a low level of approximately 20% in subsequent months,” they added.
Nonetheless, protection against hospitalization and death stayed at above 90%, they said.
The waning protection may involve behavior, they noted. “Vaccinated persons presumably have a higher rate of social contact than unvaccinated persons and may also have lower adherence to safety measures,” they wrote. “This behavior could reduce real-world effectiveness of the vaccine as compared with its biologic effectiveness, possibly explaining the waning of protection.”
But it’s a signal that countries should prepare for fresh surges of Covid-19. “These findings suggest that a large proportion of the vaccinated population could lose its protection against infection in the coming months, perhaps increasing the potential for new epidemic waves,” they wrote.
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October 8, 2021 11:10am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Reports are that the “vaccine” will bring that about.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:53am
ABS4EVA

Do you remember when Australia had a
……

CATHOLIC Prime Minister
Boogy Woogy Boo Hoo Hoo
who served actively in the FIRE SERVICE

… [Deleted]

WHO LET THE COUNTRY BURN to a CRISP

NSW Premier will be Shafted – just WAIT.
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October 8, 2021 11:28am
- Stu2
  
  He is pretty gung ho when it comes to reopening, focussing on the economy rather than 100% on health.
  
  NZ and the rest of oz will be watching carefully, phase one kicks off on Monday
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:43am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  In todays ABS4EVA zodiac deciphering quiz..
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:48am
  - ABS4EVA
    
    YEAR OF THE SHEEP every year in
    Apartheid Aotearoa
    
    3 1
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    October 8, 2021 1:44pm
    - Batman
      
      Probably more likely due to the shear number of sheep we have (see what I did there? ?)
      
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      October 8, 2021 1:49pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        I upticked you for that Batman. Far better than Mike’s humour!
        
        3 1
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        October 8, 2021 2:02pm
surfing

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/kawerau-mayor-malcolm-campbell-wont-reopen-after-butchery-destroyed/52Y3QEK6M5NNW5WYHH54BRYBI4/

Little gang banger thugs burn down the Kawerau butchery in a botched robbery (one thug caught fire too, good job, i guess they’ll catch him due to incriminating injuries).

Too bad for Kawerau, they no longer have a butcher as the owner is not going to reopen.
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October 8, 2021 11:56am
- Inandout
  
  surf, surely ‘incinerating injuries’?
  
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  October 8, 2021 4:02pm
ABS4EVA

If anyone thinks for a NANO Second that
AUS is Safe when the Subs turn up

they will be marginally safer

But the Nuclears subs are already
20+ years overdue

IT IS OVER

FOR NZ and AUSTRALIA

You all sat back on your Smug Backsides
since 1945

BOTH COUNTRIES ARE FINISHED
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October 8, 2021 12:11pm
westernScientest

And here it comes:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126587478/covid19-businesses-fear-theyre-open-to-prosecution-if-staff-test-positive

Softening up for the mandatory vax by health and safety legislation.
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October 8, 2021 12:36pm
Yvette

Te Tiriti focus’ key in Dunedin becoming most vaccinated city in NZ
Shelley Kapua of Arai Te Uru Whare Hauora explained to Breakfast this was its “whānau-friendly approach” to vaccinating — making those getting a dose feel comfortable, safe and significant.
She said this approach was one of the biggest positives they have had.
Albie Laurence of Te Kāika said partnering with the local DHB back in June had allowed them to set up two mass vaccination centres.
Health authorities in the city also had a strong emphasis on getting the vaccine message out to communities, and community providers had been able to mix with those who were more vulnerable.
Laurence said a “flare in the youth” during the lockdown had helped get many students vaccinated.
Kapua and Laurence agreed a by Māori, for Māori, by Pasifika, for Pasifika, and by youth, for youth approach to the roll-out was central in getting people vaccinated.
htthttps://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/07/te-tiriti-focus-key-in-dunedin-becoming-most-vaccinated-city-in-nz/ps://www.1news.co.nz/

That is the whole of the article. Some detail is in the video, but to watch it you have to tolerate simpering emotional-buffoon John Campbell.
But perhaps Jacinda should sit through it – along with “the largest number of Maori MPs ever in caucus and cabinet” and supposedly “with the power to allow Maori community health groups to outreach to unvaccinated Maori.”

But it seems to work, since apparently Dunedin so far is the most vaccinated city in New Zealand
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October 8, 2021 12:49pm
- kowtow
  
  That’s bullshit .
  
  They’ve taken a race narrative and twisted the facts to fit.
  
  Looking at the ‘burbs that are highest , they are the wealthiest , whitest ones .
  
  The less so , the less vaxxed suburbs.
  
  Also Dunners is a city relatively full of poor elderly white folk by and large and they’re running scared to the vaxxers as they can see this thing coming for them.
  
  At the other end of the spectrum are the tertiary students ; they too are “engaged” and have got jabbed even though they are young . There’s some evidence that it’s young poor low educated wimmin who’re the “laggards” , that won’t cover the student demographic.
  
  I’d warrant that similar to the rest of the country Dunedins’ Asians are highest , then honkeys , then PIs and last the Maoris.
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:16pm
- septic skeptic
  
  I guess the unintended message they are sending is “NEVER trust anyone who is a different race to you!”
  
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  October 8, 2021 5:43pm
Maggie Pie

1pm Briefing….

There are 44 new cases in Auckland today 🙁
A number of ‘locations-of-interest’ have been added…..all situated in Western & Southern hoods.
STILL nothing on the Northern Slopes!

Remember to WASH YOUR HANDS….cleanliness is next to godliness.
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October 8, 2021 1:21pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  This is a very tricky disease.
  That single cell organism with no brain and no nervous system is trickier then our entire govt.
  What does that say about the intellect of our govt.
  
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  October 8, 2021 1:32pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Barricade the bridges!! Keep Remuera oiks out of the north shore.
  
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  October 8, 2021 1:42pm
- lifesgood
  
  How do your fellow Remmers residents get their drugs, then?
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:01pm
oldfella

Just went looking looking for the 1pm Podium of Strewth… and found there wasn’t one. Just a media release announcing 44 new cases. WTF?
So, the numbers are growing, but the govt plays TGIF and takes the day off answering questions.
Shameful.
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October 8, 2021 1:23pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  The entire Labour govt have gone into witless protection.
  
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  October 8, 2021 1:43pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Yep, very poor look from a leadership perspective, can we expect more hastily arranged down memory lane jaunts to far flung outposts of the republic as the numbers and spread gets worse ?
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:14pm
- tavita
  
  It took me a long time to find it -On Friday, 44 new cases of Covid were announced in the community. Forty-one of the cases were in Auckland and three were in Waikato. That was at the bottom of a piece about something else.
  
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  October 8, 2021 7:46pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Well, looks like I can manage the weekend without bumping into the PM’s entourage..

https://www.gisborneherald.co.nz/local-news/20211008/pm-here-in-push-to-lift-vax-rates/
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October 8, 2021 1:24pm
RW Capitalist

It would appear, that the “elimination strategy” (misnomer alert), is now defunct.
Months after other countries had abandoned it.
(More early and hard misrepresentations ?)
Q:
1. Did we ever have a “strategy” for elimination?
A: reviewing the actions of the past 12-18 months,
NO, we had a lock down and hope strategy, which has shown to be a “whack a mole” TACTIC…not a strategy.
2. Where is the “strategy” to deal with it in the future?
A: No such thing exists, by this govt. National had a flawed (IMO) attempt.
My thoughts
1. Double ICU…(should have done this 2 years ago.
2. Form rapid reaction health teams to go to hot spots.
3. Vaccinate.
4. Test ALL possible prophylactic treatments and get those that work (even partially) to market.
5. Visit ALL vulnerable and vaccinate. ie Old folks homes, the list of all community nursing patients etc.
The problem has never been the spread of the disease and NEVER should have been.
The focus should have been those who could get seriously ill (especially hospitalizations) and those who could die of it.
THEN and only then, once ALL the vulnerable were taken care of, vaccinate the rest.
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October 8, 2021 1:28pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “Double ICU”
  
  It is not that simple. It is not just a matter of beds and a bunch of equipment at a ventilator. It is the trained nurses – senior and experienced nurses, and pulmonologists – specialist doctors who deal with people with COVID infection who are suffering from cytokine storm – which is how most of the COVID patients in ICUs die:
  
  https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32539627/#:~:text=The%20lung%20is%20a%20key,2019%20(COVID%2D19).
  
  Because of the border restrictions there is a shortage of doctors and nurses. How ironic.
  
  So forget doubling ICU capacity now – that is a dream.
  
  If this COVID thing hits like a shit storm I do not want to be anywhere NEAR a hospital. By being vaccinated I have reduced the chances of that happening from ‘small’ to ‘almost zero’.
  
  It is going to get ugly. All we are seeing now is the very very beginning.
  
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  October 8, 2021 3:37pm
  - RW Capitalist
    
    OH dear…it’s hard???
    I don’t agree, that just because it is hard, we shouldn’t do it.
    If these incompetent fools had started last year, it would be done by now.
    But since they didn’t…..just get started.
    True ..the equipment side of things is the easy part, but we don’t even have that.
    There are nurses aplenty wanting to come to NZ, so fast track the ICU qualified ones.
    If these clowns had a solutions based attitude instead of an ideology based attitude, it would have already have been done.
    Solutions and hard work instead of perception and fantasy.
    
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    October 8, 2021 5:19pm
  - Taieri
    
    It is the trained nurses – senior and experienced nurses, and pulmonologists
    —————
    
    It takes 10 days to train ICU Covid specialized nurse.
    
    https://aacnjournals.org/ajcconline/article/29/5/e104/31081/Rapid-Critical-Care-Training-of-Nurses-in-the
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:39pm
WaveyDavey

For those that think that the walk-ins is where the vaccine action is…

https://twitter.com/mexiwi/status/1446245809083674664?s=20
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October 8, 2021 1:43pm
ABS4EVA

Labour in OZ are only going along with the
National PLan because it is going to be a
DISASTER and will give them
POWER
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October 8, 2021 1:47pm
Aquataur

I’ve been told that the new Vaccine Passport is being designed so :-

It shows GREEN if you are double vaxxed
It shows ORANGE if you are single vaxxed
It shows RED if you are not vaxxed

If it shows BROWN, you can do what the fuck you like
16 2
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October 8, 2021 2:01pm
- RW Capitalist
  
  No thought of those with NATURAL immunity?
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:49pm
  - Aquataur
    
    Can’t be any of those here RWC
    
    Covid has been eliminated in NZ !
    
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    October 8, 2021 3:10pm
    - RW Capitalist
      
      Careful
      With the economy the way it is….
      Sarcasm will be a taxable commodity.
      
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      October 8, 2021 5:46pm
Maggie Pie

Grant Robertson spotted in Oriental Bay wearing T- Shirt……

‘DON’T BE A DICK
GET THE PRICK’

😎
8 3
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October 8, 2021 2:03pm
- Aquataur
  
  I thought he already got it regularly
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He can’t be that stupid?
  
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  October 8, 2021 3:56pm
WaveyDavey

There were c.80k vaccinations given yesterday

There are c.800k remaining to receive their first shots

That 80k target was reduced by a whole 16k yesterday – 50 days to go at the current rate and before the kids get added
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October 8, 2021 2:14pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  In fact in 8 days we have only closed the gap to that 800k by 89,000 – 11,000 a day
  
  Vaxed + booked
  28 Sep – 3,381,948
  07 Oct – 3,471,705
  
  The difference is how much we’re closing the gap
  
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  October 8, 2021 2:31pm
dime

The Heralds love affair with Hillary Barry is downright weird.

Im constantly seeing her picture on the front page of the website.

Its always something like:

Hillary Barry’s perfect comeback…

Hillarys EPIC response..

today it is:

“Nice own goal’: Hilary Barry roasts anti-vaxxers’ attempt to get her fired

The ‘kings and queens of misinformation’ are no match for TVNZ host.”

I guess she is what the 22 yr old girls who run the herald aspire to be?

short hair. not attractice. leftist. high income (but still a socialist).
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October 8, 2021 2:29pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I know of a ‘Hillary’ When she don’t like people they sort of vanish
  
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  October 8, 2021 4:14pm
- graham
  
  Yes, the Herald has had a real thing going on for Hilary for some time now.
  
  I can only assume that – once again – the people that push this sort of thing are aiming for a plum position with the Woman’s Weekly, or think that she fits the description of “NZ’s very own honest-to-goodness real life CELEBRITY!”
  
  I really don’t get it. Are we that insecure that we need to make a TV host into some sort of national treasure or celebrity? Apparently, some of us are.
  
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  October 8, 2021 4:21pm
dime

“Dr Rawiri Taonui said evidence showed that the Delta strain of the virus had spread at a much higher rate among Māori after Auckland dropped to alert level 3 just over two weeks ago.”

HAHA yeah thats cause maori are in GANGS
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October 8, 2021 2:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Coster will be around soon to reprogram you, dime
  
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  October 8, 2021 3:27pm
Aquataur

Neighbour who is a contact tracer tells me that one of the clusters is linked to the UN lady in Middlemore.

Tricky virus seems to have escaped from an ICU room!

Not sure we will hear this from our ‘honest and transparent’ government
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October 8, 2021 2:35pm
- kowtow
  
  That’s what Question time in the house is for .
  
  Holding the govt to account .
  
  Esp seeing as how the defunct fourth estate now refuse to bite the hand that feeds it.
  
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  October 8, 2021 4:57pm
- Aquataur
  
  I’ve put in an OIA request to see if this is correct and will let folk know the result
  
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  October 8, 2021 5:05pm
Maggie Pie

Slightly off-piste, but…

I-PREDICT:
JULIAN ASSANGE WILL BE HOME FOR XMAS!

‘FBI Informant’ who was given immunity to testify against Julian, has been jailed in Iceland for financial fraud….. AND pedophilia 🙁 (looks the type too)

https://stundin.is/grein/14117/
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October 8, 2021 3:18pm
ABS4EVA

The Ultimate ANZAC

http://medalsgonemissing.com/military-medal-blog/military-medals/from-gallipoli-to-kokoda-the-story-of-jim-cowey-mc/

What a life
What a Soldier

From Gallipoli to Kokoda! The story of Jim COWEY M.C.

Gallipoli in his younger Days

Kokoda in his 50’s

What an inspiration
What a Trooper
3 1
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October 8, 2021 4:13pm
Maggie Pie

TWITTER TRENDING 😀

PM Jacinda Ardern takes time out from busy schedule to chat with little kids in one of Gisborne’s ritziest suburbs…..

https://twitter.com/mrsrosieb/status/1446293279742455809
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October 8, 2021 4:16pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good bait, where do you buy it?
  
  5 1
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  October 8, 2021 4:35pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    ClarkE.
    
    5 1
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    October 8, 2021 4:43pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Loving the White savior tour, very liberal ,very cliché.
  
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  October 8, 2021 4:36pm
K

Pacific vaccination rates are pretty much the same or higher than European rates for all age brackets under 70. I’m sure that won’t stop the media from infantilising them though.

https://www.google.co.nz/amp/s/thespinoff.co.nz/society/07-10-2021/the-spinoff-covid-tracker/%3famp
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October 8, 2021 4:43pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Double-vaxxed cop now Covid positive.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-fully-vaccinated-police-officer-tests-positive-after-helping-woman-44-new-cases-41-in-auckland-3-in-waikato/ANCBLO7MNFZGALBB6XI7AJO2QU/
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October 8, 2021 5:01pm
- Boutique Avo Orchard
  
  Thanks Maggy. Maybe this will give you “Hope” – its excellent. Watch “Hope New Zealand” on YouTube
  https://youtu.be/VxKY6WGaL54
  
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  October 8, 2021 5:55pm
ABS4EVA

CINDIES Best Friend

COPS a FINE for not Wearing a MASK

https://www.smh.com.au/national/australia-news-live-victorian-covid-19-cases-continue-to-grow-nsw-premier-brings-forward-changes-to-state-road-map-20211007-p58y6a.html

Destroys the Aus Economy
Most Covid Deaths
Highest Pay
Most locked down city in the world

AND hey Masks are for

THE PEASANTS

That is LABOUR
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October 8, 2021 5:27pm
bennerg

What’s with the logic (sic) with this one:

Ardern today: “Every adult who rolls up their sleeves protects the tamariki who can’t.”

4th February 2021
“There’s no evidence that any of the current Covid-19 vaccines can completely stop people from being infected – and this has implications for our prospects of achieving herd immunity.”

Ref: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20210203-why-vaccinated-people-may-still-be-able-to-spread-covid-19

6th August 2021
“There are early signs that people who have been vaccinated against COVID-19 may be able to transmit the Delta variant of the virus as easily as those who have not, scientists at Public Health England (PHE) said on Friday.”

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/england-says-delta-infections-produce-similar-virus-levels-regardless-vaccine-2021-08-06/

This is not new news. So why is our PM spreading misinformation?
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October 8, 2021 5:42pm
- septic skeptic
  
  It’s pretty standard for Labour to use children as political pawns. They are trying to persuade people to get jabbed by inducing a guilt that they might kill children if they don’t. Taking a leaf out of the tried and tested “child poverdy” playbook.
  
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  October 8, 2021 6:40pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    the name for this is pedophastry, and almost always indicates a weakly supported argument.
    
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    October 8, 2021 9:19pm
krazykiwi

Grounded Kiwis taking three government ministers to court. Claim is that our MIQ system breaches New Zealand’s Bill of Rights. Should be interesting.
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October 8, 2021 6:26pm
- fernglas
  
  Good luck to that. The Judges have been duped into being just as scared as anyone else about Covid, and half of them would probably find torture a justified limitation on rights in this situation.
  
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  October 8, 2021 7:32pm
- [email protected]
  
  It does and a number of other international laws that New Zealand signed up to.
  
  Wishing them the best of luck. My wife and I sued the government of California (BV Engineering vs UCLA). It was an uphill battle but finally succeeded.
  
  Taking on the government with huge financial resources takes a lot of intestinal fortitude. Hope they succeed.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:21pm
Maggie Pie

SHEEEESH!!

Anyone else like us, absolutely ‘sick & bloody tired’ of all the presenters on 1Ewes STILL introducing everything in Maori?

We’ve got dozens of part-Maori friends….yet not one of THEM understands it either!

Just saying.
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October 8, 2021 6:26pm
- dcrane
  
  Might as well just broadcast dead air for those moments, for the lack of information being communicated. Besides the virtue-signaling, that is.
  
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  October 8, 2021 6:35pm
- graham
  
  Yep … it really is nothing more than crass virtue signalling. It doesn’t convey any useful information – quite the reverse; as so few people have any idea what on earth is actually being said it ends up confusing any message that they may be trying to deliver – and is quite pointless, considering the prime directive of a news program SHOULD be to deliver the salient points of the news in an understandable and unambiguous manner.
  
  Massive fail.
  
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  October 8, 2021 11:22pm
RW Capitalist

HHHMMM
Is it time to remind everyone, of the definition of insanity.
Considering we are almost back to where we were a year ago, re covid.
“repeating the same thing, over and over, expecting a different result”
re Northland lock down.
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October 8, 2021 6:40pm
dime

Chick posing as a recruitment worker spread the rona in Northland.

She was a drug mule.

There is no stopping delta once it hits the trash
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October 8, 2021 6:41pm
- alex Masterley
  
  Thought a run might be the reason for the trip north. I hope the plod throw the book at the individual.
  I know it is wishful thinking but a man can dream.
  Chippie looked rather stressed when Jess (no surprise there) got the first question in.
  
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  October 8, 2021 6:51pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  WOW! The body-language…..
  
  Heard Chippy on ZB giving details of the two offenders.
  He stopped just short of referring to them as…. “gangster’s molls”
  
  14 1
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  October 8, 2021 6:55pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    The PM going to be as out there on this lot as she was with the lawyer and horse boy? Odds please.
    
    13 0
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    October 8, 2021 7:49pm
  - Cinematic
    
    I liked this bit “the virus had a way of finding the unvaccinated, he said”
    
    These plonkers attributing sentient qualities to a virus to ratchet up the fear. Seriously, so dumb.
    
    9 0
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    October 8, 2021 8:05pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  S.H.I.T. – I’m so over this!!!!!!!
  
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  October 8, 2021 7:10pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    Shit again – emergency alert – I want facts like plois – not gummit feelzy BS!
    
    6 1
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    October 8, 2021 7:56pm
  - MCos
    
    I have a sister in Chch.
    Immediately after the earthquakes down there when there were constant aftershocks she told me the same thing.
    Unfortunately when it comes to natural occurrences, although the effects can be mitigated, it’ll be over when nature decides.
    
    3 1
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    October 8, 2021 8:02pm
ABS4EVA

DANGER CLOSE

Morrie stanley RIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yS06OE-BzY

Kiwi Hero
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October 8, 2021 7:04pm
RW Capitalist

A novel idea, that would have and may still get us to 100% vaccination sooner.

TELL THE TRUTH
THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH….from the start.
We will not be first
We will get it as fast as we can
We will start immediately we get it
It has side effects..they are…A B C…..
As we know now almost none of those side effect are serious or long lasting..we will keep you updated.
Covid 19 is a serious illness and can kill in the in firmed and elderly
The vaccine is the best known treatment option, but we will investigate others and get back to you
Please make the effort to get vaccinated immediately and we will get it to you.
We will keep you appraised of vaccine levels and continue to be innovative in our sourcing.
Thank you
Honesty always gets more than obfuscation.
People like to make decisions for themselves
A lack of knowledge leads to mistrust and people looking elsewhere for their answers 9thats where the misinformation lives).
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October 8, 2021 7:10pm
- Cinematic
  
  The truth shall set you free.
  
  Unfortunately this bunch of socialist control freaks genuinely believe they are smarter than they are.
  
  Watching their feeble attempts to provide direction is amusing and depressing in equal measure.
  
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  October 8, 2021 7:50pm
Hugh Jarse

So they have known about these two for a few days, no wonder the PM shot out of Wellington as quickly as she did, leaving Hipkins in the hot seat. First question to the PM from Jess/Tova on Monday should be “when were you informed of these two in Northland”. Second question “why did you leave Wellington during a time of obvious spread of COVID instead of remaining in Wellington for a developing crisis ?”. But we all know that won’t happen.
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October 8, 2021 7:36pm
- doggone7
  
  She comes on and people throw their toys at the TV complaining she’s speaking to them as if they were children.
  
  She doesn’t come on and they throw their toys at the TV because she hasn’t come on and given them cause to throw their toys at the TV. Is that it?
  
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  October 8, 2021 9:09pm
[email protected]

My cellphone alarmed me with audio alarms to say that Northland is going into Alert Level cat 11:59pm tonight. I don’t remember me giving them permission to send that message to me.
6 0
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October 8, 2021 7:56pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So the top half of the NI and half of the population is locked up because of Gangs and their activities.

What was that idiot Stuart Nash saying a couple of months ago about not to worry about Gangs because they only bother themselves.

“In my three years as Minister of Police what I know is the gangs do not target civilians,”
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/hawkes-bay-today/news/mp-stuart-nash-v-napier-mayor-kirsten-wise-as-gang-violence-turns-into-political-brouhaha/WVNRCTHRKTPPCX4QEZOQFX7F4U/
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October 8, 2021 8:31pm
Southern Raider

So basically the only people in NZ allowed to cross COVID borders are gang members and prostitutes
13 0
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October 8, 2021 8:47pm
- krazykiwi
  
  And MPs. I know which are more dangerous.
  
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  October 8, 2021 8:58pm
Peter Lane

According to Chippy:

“The virus had a way of finding the unvaccinated”

Total and utter misinformation. Nobody challenges these ridiculous assertions. It makes the ‘virus’ sound like some heat seeking missile.

STOP SCARING PEOPLE.
8 0
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October 8, 2021 9:45pm

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