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October 11, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 11 October 2021

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

Happy International Newspaper Carrier Day!
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October 11, 2021 8:00am
- Simon
  
  Recall all the carriers of the “news” that Cindy had won against covid. Those utter fools. They know who they are.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I would not have liked collecting your subscription back in the days when that was an extra chore on the paper run.
    
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    October 11, 2021 4:52pm
    - Simon
      
      Geez how old are you?
      
      Just rereading Road to Wigan Pier. There is mention of newspaper sales men with the horrible job of being allocated streets to sell newspaper subs. Guessing the delivery boy dropping off and collecting. But that book was written 75 years ago
      
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      October 11, 2021 6:49pm
- Ed Snack
  
  Although it was yesterday, worth noting that 54 years ago Che Guevara finally became a good communist.
  
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  October 11, 2021 12:21pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    54 years ago he was shot in Bolivia, and his hands cut off as proof.
    Should happen to every commie
    
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    October 11, 2021 2:27pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Oh lookie, 3 downticks = 3 commies in NZ. Must be more. Who knew the fucker were here? //
      
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      October 11, 2021 4:07pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Afternoon, Steve. I’m just wondering whether there is any living New Zealander you consider should be summarily executed for being a communist.
        
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        October 11, 2021 4:29pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Would you like a list Mike?
        
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        October 12, 2021 7:49am
- ABS4EVA
  
  Happy International KMA Day to you
  
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  October 11, 2021 7:34pm
Vory v zakone

Data released last Friday by the Center for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) showed that between Dec. 14, 2020 and Oct. 1, 2021, a total of 778,685 adverse events following COVID vaccines were “reported” to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS). The data included a total of 16,310 reports of deaths — an increase of 373 over the previous week.

There were 111,921 reports of serious injuries, including deaths, during the same time period — up 6,163 compared with the previous week.

Excluding “foreign reports” filed in VAERS, 593, 728 adverse events, including 7,437 deaths and 47,455 serious injuries, were reported in the U.S. between Dec. 14, 2020 and Oct. 1, 2021.

Of the 7,437 U.S. deaths reported as of Oct. 1, 11% occurred within 24 hours of vaccination, 16% occurred within 48 hours of vaccination and 29% occurred in people who experienced an onset of symptoms within 48 hours of being vaccinated.
The data come directly from reports submitted to VAERS, the primary government-funded system for reporting adverse vaccine reactions in the U.S.

Every Friday, VAERS makes public all vaccine injury reports received as of a specified date, usually about a week prior to the release date. Reports submitted to VAERS require further investigation before a causal relationship can be confirmed.
Historically, VAERS has been shown to report only 1% of actual vaccine adverse events.

This week’s U.S. data for 12- to 17-year-olds show:

21,298 total adverse events, including 1,284 rated as serious and 22 reported deaths. Two of the 22 deaths were suicides.
The most recent death involves a 16-year-old male (VAERS I.D. 1734141) who reportedly died from cardiac failure five days after receiving Pfizer’s COVID vaccine.

Other recent deaths include a 17-year-old male (VAERS I.D. 1689212) with cancer who was vaccinated April 17, tested positive for COVID on July 20, was hospitalized and passed away Aug. 29; and a 16-year-old female (VAERS I.D. 1694568) who died from a pulmonary embolism nine days after receiving her first Pfizer dose.

3,202 reports of anaphylaxis among 12- to 17-year-olds with 99% of cases
attributed to Pfizer’s vaccine.
520 reports of myocarditis and pericarditis (heart inflammation) with 508 cases attributed to Pfizer’s vaccine.
114 reports of blood clotting disorders, with all cases attributed to Pfizer.
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October 11, 2021 8:00am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Meanwhile this story seems to have been ignored by most of the media.
  
  Dr. Jessica Rose at the FDA Open Public Hearing:
  Dr Rose states based on the VAERS data…
  “There’s an over 1000% increase in the total number of adverse events just for 2021 and we are not done with 2021 … In my opinion [the risks] outweigh any potential benefits…with these products, especially in children.”
  
  She questions if the shots are driving the variants
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WFph7-6t34M&t=14984s
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:05am
  - Ed Snack
    
    We should certainly question whether the risk/benefit equation stacks up for vaccinating those under, say 16, and possibly for those under 30.
    
    Covid in the younger ages groups has a very low fatality rate. In the UK, if one excludes those children (<16) with serious illnesses that compound the risk (such as cancer) then the deaths attributable to Covid is approximately zero. To be fair the US reports a higher rate, but I haven’t seen numbers that exclude existing serious conditions, and there are likely “accounting” differences on how the numbers are compiled.
    
    Few countries do encourage vaccination of the youngest age groups, and some recommend against it.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:07am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    https://openvaers.com/covid-data
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:47am
- surfing
  
  Didn’t realise the vaccine also causes suicide.
  
  Good detective work.
  
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  October 11, 2021 12:00pm
krazykiwi

Time for some apologetics: Given what we now know, if the answer is everyone being vaccinated then we are asking the wrong question.
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October 11, 2021 8:02am
- PhilBest
  
  I noticed when Clive Palmer gave that press conference a month or so back, he swatted the MSM journo questions and criticisms out of the park, including the one that “but but but without getting everyone vaccinated we can’t open up, think of the poor small business owners”. Palmer just stated the obvious: opening up and saving small business owners is an imperative in its own right and the vaccines are just a deliberate distraction.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYeOljv43CU
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:10am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    A common vignette. NSW, one day earlier this month:
    
    7 deaths, all with underlying conditions. 5 were over 70 years of age. 3 had two doses, 3 had one dose, 1 was unvaccinated.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPF7uoZmW0M
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:53am
- alloytoo
  
  We’ve know for some time (thanks to the Israelis) that vaccination is not the golden bullet.
  
  Ubnfortunately this government has (a) stuffed up vaccinations and (b) no plan B.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:12am
  - Bob
    
    no plan B ????
    they never had ANY plan right from the beginning; all went on holiday for the first critical three months when the threat was an identified ‘known’. But it was over in Italy then, no geographical knowledge in this govt. Think airplanes for worldwide transmission.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:16am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  I woke up this morning answer realised that the tyranny of lockdown is still with us.
  
  I watch the fury wilder fight on pay per view last night and Las Vegas is open for business.
  
  I am so over the inept out of control authoratian communist government and their lockdown control tyranny.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:13am
  - Inandout
    
    MrB, the compliant population is to blame if you are seeking answers. Imagine 100 customers (OK all dub jabbed) walking into a major retailer maskless and watch the staff just stand aghast. Won’t happen in Wokeland of course but what could the Police do? The assembled lot in Cabinet have no plan and they just scramble for new words at every lecture from the podium. Figures of tested up, then down, then up; a cluster fuck on display.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:30am
    - David Garrett
      
      In and: Yes…it is very clear that they are just making it up as they go along. I wouldn’t actually mind that so much if they admitted that they didn’t actually know the best strategy in a rapidly changing environment, and that their advice could change. That would be far more honest – if a tad worrying.
      
      Look at the issue of the interval between first and second jab. First it was that three weeks was optimum. Then, by the time I got my first jab five weeks ago, it was six weeks…well and good; I booked my next one for 14 October, three days hence.
      
      Now it’s back to three weeks – or is the latest “as soon as you can”? How can anyone have any confidence at all when the “expert” advice is constantly changing?
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:52am
      - kowtow
        
        ‘Follow the science’ they tell us.
        
        Who’s particular , version at what particular time.
        
        From the very outset of this thing being developed in a western funded lab in China the whole thing’s been political.
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:14am
      - Mr_Blobby
        
        The plan, you want to know the plan.
        
        In regards to Covid the plan, there is no plan.
        
        Covid was just a convenient tool to push through the communist agenda.
        
        You’ve seen it, minimum wages increasing in the middle of a recession, ideology pushed that through not good economics.
        
        Every decision is based on ideology.
        
        It is not about Covid it is about Control, control of everything.
        
        The Tyrants have the answer for everything, see NetFlix how to become a Tyrant.
        
        Top of that list is the war on truth.
        
        “The only Truth is the Truth we tell you.”
        
        Our once independent media has become a propaganda bullhorn, wall to wall fear porn, backed up by patsy questions.
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:28am
      - alloytoo
        
        It’s not the expert advice that’s changing it’s the Ardern government’s propaganda needs.
        
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        October 11, 2021 12:32pm
    - Vory v zakone
      
      What is playing now on the complicit audio visual media is known as the
      CindySermon™ from The Podium of The SINGLE SOURCE OF TRUTH. ?
      
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      October 11, 2021 4:31pm
- Scott
  
  Quite right krazy. We need to understand that Covid is going to come through New Zealand. We can’t stamp it out. I think vaccination helps mitigate the risks. But we are going to have to learn to live with Covid.
  
  All we have done since March 2020 is delay the inevitable day of reckoning. At the cost of billions of dollars and the destruction of our freedoms. However we can rise up and rebuild New Zealand and go forward and prosper. To do that may I suggest we might need a change of government?
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:17am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    The trouble is, we don’t have any real opposition. They’re all singing minor variations off the same Covid song sheet. They’re all still banging on about vaccination rates, when it is clear beyond doubt that this will do nothing to prevent transmission and spread. I wish they’d follow the science instead of following it only when it suits the agenda.
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:58am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      You got it. National is Labour light. See Labour and the Greens have gone so far left they are going to fall off the edge of the flat earth. There is a center left vacuum and Collins sees this. Easy votes, never mind the conservative types. Then she started rabbiting on about vaccine certs to enter supermarkets. Marxism.
      My vote will not go there. We have NO opposition therefore Jaspinda can do whatever the fuck she likes
      
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      October 11, 2021 2:39pm
  - Fletch
    
    Plus, I do not think the vaccine does mitigate the risks. The vaccine is designed to fight the Alpha variant of the virus. We’ve moved along 3 or 4 variants now. We’re on a different strain. But the idiots in charge have no other plans. They could be using therapeutics to fight it more successfully, but they refuse. We have the tools, we just won’t use them. It most likely all comes down to money over the lives of people.
    
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    October 11, 2021 1:10pm
    - Surely Knott
      
      Covid is old news in the UK where …..”the Chief Executive of the U.K. Health Security Agency has acknowledged that Covid is no longer the “most significant” threat to health.””
      
      “[Dr. Jenny Harries] said today that Covid was possibly no more dangerous than flu, as she warned that there would be a lower immunity to the illness this year.”
      
      So we are starting to move to a situation where, perhaps Covid is not the most significant element, and many of those individuals affected will of course have other comorbidities, which will make them vulnerable to serious illness but other reasons as well.”
      
      Officials fear that this winter could see up to 60,000 flu deaths – the worst figure in Britain since the 1968 Hong Kong Flu pandemic – without strong uptake of vaccines.
      
      “It comes as the NHS launched its biggest ever flu vaccination drive …..”
      
      New pandemic everyone. It’s the flu pandemic coming next. Please sign up and get your flu jab.
      
      https://dailysceptic.org/2021/10/10/covid-may-no-longer-be-the-most-significant-threat-to-health-says-head-of-u-k-health-security-agency/
      
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      October 11, 2021 4:15pm
- JackRabbit
  
  That is what happens when the answer is decided before the question is asked.
  
  Or a vaccine that is designed before the virus exists.
  
  The Covid Vaccine – a solution looking for a problem.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:34am
  - John Pakes
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    A comment loaded with rhetoric and short of intelligence.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:15am
    - JackRabbit
      
      Your is a comment loaded with rhetoric and short of intelligence as a knee jerk reaction to my comment that has sparked a reaction in you.
      
      Your comment has no value.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:17am
      - John Pakes
        
        Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
        I sort of expected this reply, it is what you always do.
        I reckon that you should look closely at the reply from Benedict Yu. “Buzz Kill”.
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:28am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @John Pakes
        
        I sort of expected this reply, it is what you always do.
        
        Perhaps if you dealt with the subject matter instead of snapping at the heels of anyone who something intelligent to say, you might learn a thing or two.
        
        But what would I know about health and airborne viruses. I’ve only got 40 years experience in the field. No doubt you have 150 years experience.
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:49am
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        The trouble is, we don’t have any real opposition. They’re all singing minor variations off the same Covid song sheet. They’re all still banging on about vaccination rates, when it is clear beyond doubt that this will do nothing to prevent transmission and spread. I wish they’d follow the science instead of following it only when it suits the agenda.
        
        I’d say that about 80-90% of those who have been vaccinated did so, not for any medical reason, but in order to satisfy expected requirements for access. For instance, Benedict has openly admitted several times that he was vaccinated so that he could travel to see his family. That is paradigm soft coercion, wholly unrelated to any medical considerations. I bet plenty of other readers have done similar. When was the last time you accepted a medical treatment for non-medical reasons?
        
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        October 11, 2021 12:07pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        You can talk Pakes.
        You’re a Troll with penchant for Race Baiting amongst other things.
        
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        October 11, 2021 1:43pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “For instance, Benedict has openly admitted several times that he was vaccinated so that he could travel to see his family.”
        
        Yes that is correct. But to be clear – I am also being vaccinated because I believe the vaccine is safe and highly effective at preventing serious illness from COVID infection.
        
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        October 11, 2021 2:30pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Don’t be too hard on him Jack. He is only a Young Labour type learning the socialist ropes. Still in short pants I reckon
        
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        October 11, 2021 2:41pm
  - Lance
    
    Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
    
    Pfizer created the virus AFTER they created the vaccine to make money?
    
    Seriously???
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:05am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Cry Pfizer, and let slip the Dogs of Influenza.
    
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    October 11, 2021 12:33pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  And the answer never was and never will be the one that you blasted this forum with – natural herd “immunity.”
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:41am
  - fernglas
    
    Ask India. They seem to have done it that way. Low vaccination rates, high antibody levels > 70% and at the moment 250 deaths per day on average for a population of 1.38 billion
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:47am
    - dannz
      
      Check out india excess deaths, at about 3-5 million their covid deaths are massively understated.
      They now have high antibody levels at massive cost.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:07am
      - Inandout
        
        dan, looking at the absolute filth and pollution in that country’s cities I am amazed the deaths aren’t even higher. Apparently the scores of dead bodies floating down the Ganges doesn’t help when idiots are washing themselves in the putrid liquid soup.
        
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        October 11, 2021 9:34am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Well, the capital Delhi now claims to be close to Covid free, and as far as one can tell their hospitals are far from overloaded with Covid cases.
        
        So if they are hiding it, they’re keeping people out of hospital. Could be that many of the excess deaths are as they are in other places, people dying because medical resources were diverted to deal with Covid instead of handling existing conditions.
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:12am
      - Jack5
        
        Covid-19 figures for Mumbai alone yesterday, reported by the Times of India:
        
        …. over 450 new coronavirus positive cases. The overall case tally has now climbed to 7,47,758. Also, the death toll has now mounted to 16,158 with six persons succumbing to the virus in the day. A total of 457 patients were discharged today after recovery and a total of 7,24,063 patients have been discharged so far.
        
        The newspaper adds :Maharashtra on Sunday reported 28 deaths and 2,294 new Covid-19 cases. Mumbai is the capital of Maharashtra state, which has about 112 million people.
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:18am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Jack5, only some states in India use anti-viral prophylactic treatment. Many other states are following the same policies that NZ is following – basically vaccinate as many as possible.
        
        The places that are using treatment are Uttar Pradesh and the capital territory around Delhi. Both have reportedly very low rates. UP has a population of around 240 million.
        
        Mumbai and Maharashtra state were using HCQ as part of their treatment for Covid, but seem to have stopped doing that a while back and are now purely focused on vaccination.
        
        There is the issue that Covid waves seem to go up and down sort of independent of whatever places are doing to treat or manage the disease. It is indeed possible that UP and Delhi just happen to be luckily at one of the low points in the cycle. But if so, interesting at least that it is coincidental with the large scale roll out of a specific treatment plan that has Ivermectin at the heart of it.
        
        Although I believe that right now we have reasonable evidence that Ivermectin, when used with a group of other treatments like Vitamin D3, zinc supplements, and anti-oxidants, is effective at significantly reducing the rate at which those who catch Covid progress to serious symptoms, I’m not a total fanatic, I just want the issue to be seriously addressed and studied. Because if it is effective, it is dirt cheap and really easy to implement, and would save NZ alone literally $B over time.
        
        Nothing in using Ivermectin stops us also vaccinating, and using Aspirin as well. In this situation I’m a utilitarean sort, if it works even a bit and the risk/benefit ratio is positive enough, we should use it. Covid has been so utterly disruptive and will have a cost for decades in terms of lost economic growth and wasted lives, why not do everything reasonable.
        
        What I find incomprehensible is why so many people appear to sincerely NOT WANT something like Ivermectin, or Aspirin, or whatever, to be useful and work. It seems like some sort of religious obsession, Ivermectin is an anathema and must NOT be employed regardless of efficacy.
        
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        October 11, 2021 6:24pm
      - dannz
        
        For those who don’t understand, excess mortality is how many more people died than usual.
        
        Uttar Pradesh has very suspect reporting of death at the best of times. Some areas claimed 0 deaths of all causes over the period. Highly improbable.
        
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        October 11, 2021 6:40pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        @Ed, O/T I would be interested in your take on this: https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/are-leaky-vaccines-driving-delta
        
        If you are comfortable, email me at krazykiwi@icloud.com, and we can do a two-step authentication. Equally happy to pick this up in a GD
        
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        October 11, 2021 8:09pm
      - dannz
        
        @krazy, that is an interesting link, and somewhat scary if the conclusions are correct.
        
        The most likely explanation in my mind, is that UK are not testing enough to catch all cases. If they are only picking up serious cases, it would give the appearance of an increasing CFR. It would be interesting to see if the IFR is doing the same.
        
        I suspect there is significant testing fatigue there, as they are over it.
        Also as they’ve recently reopened we would expect a major increase in cases, however this didn’t appear in the statistics.
        Could it be that there were many more cases, but people didn’t want to get tested?
        
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        October 11, 2021 9:25pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        @dannz, an interesting theory. antidotal evidence from my daughter in London. Had party at their flat last weekend. Had it been 3 months ago they would have asked attendees to self-test before coming. but they didn’t this time. And neither are any of their friends still getting guests to test.
        
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        October 12, 2021 2:02pm
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      At a 1.2% mortality rate 16,560,000 die every year anyway, 45,369 every day.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:14am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        3000 from hunger and related diseases, no vaccine for that. Well, food isn’t a vaccine is it?
        
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        October 11, 2021 8:26pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Howe about you give us the question and the answer?
    
    FWIW my question contains the word “endemic” and the phrase “minimise illness and deaths” and my answer has the phrases “vaccine acquired immunity” and “infection acquired immunity”.
    
    Honestly coming on here and dumping on people without providing cogent alternative arguments is a real “buzz kill”. My partner taught me that phrase last week. 🙂
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:48am
  - dcrane
    
    Why not? Just because we will still have rolling covid cases and death under herd immunity, doesn’t mean it isn’t the best situation we can hope for.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:51am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      To be quite clear. Is it your contention that the natural immunity you gain from catching and recovering from covid, is so much better than the immunity that you gain from getting vaccinated, that it outweighs the greater risk of serious illness, long-lasting impacts and death from covid than from the vaccine?
      
      Citations please
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:10am
      - krazykiwi
        
        Try these:
        
        https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
        
        This study demonstrated that natural immunity confers longer lasting and stronger protection against infection, symptomatic disease and hospitalization caused by the Delta variant of SARS-CoV-2, compared to the BNT162b2 two-dose vaccine-induced immunity. Individuals who were both previously infected with SARS-CoV-2 and given a single dose of the vaccine gained additional protection against the Delta variant.
        
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8253687/
        
        https://www.biznews.com/health/2021/06/28/covid-19-vaccine-immunity
        
        https://sharylattkisson.com/2021/10/covid-19-natural-immunity-compared-to-vaccine-induced-immunity-the-definitive-summary/
        
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        October 11, 2021 9:47am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        The answer to your question is both yes and no.
        
        There is now strong evidence that infection acquired immunity is more effective than vaccine acquired immunity. Of course early days – we don’t know how this will pan out over the next few years.
        
        The consensus evidence is that ‘natural immunity is likely to last several years (at least) but probably not a lifetime. Whereas on current trends the vaccine will provide very little protection against transmission after a couple of years.
        
        But of course you need to be vaccinated because WHEN you get COVID – because you will, you want to be vaccinated, especially if you are over 55 and/or in any way vulnerable. (Overweight, smoker, asthma, heart disease etc etc).
        
        All the detail on the benefits of infection acquired immunity is here. The video also has all the citations you are looking for.
        
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bamaEMftg4
        
        Note that most governments are not going to try to explain all this – they just want to keep it simple – “get vaccinated” which I kind of understand. Because we should all get vaccinated. Because we are all going to be infected with the virus.
        
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        October 11, 2021 9:59am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Benedict, one minor point, asthma is NOT a threat condition associated with Covid. Sorry no links but I’ve seen several studies on this point and the conclusion seems fairly robust.
        
        It seems that the inflammation associated with asthma is higher up the airways, with Covid the issue is actually in the lungs themselves, so there isn’t a huge interaction. Though I could well imagine that if one is struggling to breath because of Covid induced lung damage, an asthma attack would be extremely unhelpful.
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:17am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Wow
        KK provides clear evidence and then gets downticks.
        Science Deniers eh
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:19am
      - Albert_Ross
        
        No, that doesn’t answer my question. I am sorry if I wasn’t clear. I will try to be clearer.
        
        x = extent to which immunity acquired by getting and recovering from covid, exceeds immunity acquired by only getting vaccinated. The papers you cite establish that x may be a positive, and it’s larger when you then have the vaccine as well.
        
        y = extent to which risk of serious illness, long-lasting health impacts and death from covid when you are not vaccinated, exceeds the risk of serious illness, long-term impact and death of covid when you are vaccinated.
        
        Is your contention that x is greater than y?
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:30am
      - dcrane
        
        @Albert_Ross Far as I can tell the vulnerable/elderly are much better off getting vaccinated, probably somewhere down into middle age. The very young, and those who have recovered from covid, are not.
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:52am
      - krazykiwi
        
        @Albert_Ross, I get what you’re wanting to achieve with the x vs y dichotomy, but this can’t work. The personal risk model of every NZer will deliver a different outcome. @dcrane has given one example.
        
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        October 12, 2021 7:39am
  - PhilBest
    
    The lying and gaslighting from the Left leaves no subject or issue untouched.
    
    Natural immunity versus vaxxine conferred immunity:
    
    https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.24.21262415v1
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:57am
    - dannz
      
      What’s the point of natural immunity if the only way to get it is to have Covid?
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:13am
      - PhilBest
        
        Seeing 97% of Covid cases are asymptomatic or mild, what is the harm of getting natural immunity that way?
        
        We actually know now why the people who get really ill and who die, do so. We COULD all get natural immunity via mild infections only.
        
        These genius research doctors are right IMHO: don’t catch Covid from someone shedding virus, catch it from them after they have stopped shedding it. You can still catch it from them, but you won’t get the billions of viruses down your respiratory passages that you would when they are shedding. This phase lasts about 3 days, about 3 days after they got infected.
        
        https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7685031/
        
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        October 11, 2021 9:38am
      - JackRabbit
        
        What’s the point of natural immunity if the only way to get it is to have Covid?
        
        Right now, you have natural immunity to hundreds of viral and baterial threats that you have “never had”.
        
        Some immunity would have been passed down to you from your parents / mother by cellular memory, some by suckling at the breast as a baby.
        
        Other natural immunity will be where you breathe in viruses from the surrounding air and anti-bodies are created and virus expelled without you having symptoms or the virus even getting past the lungs primary defences i.e. it did not enter body tissue per se.
        
        Symptomatic infections are a very very small subset of overall infections. However infection is the wrong word for when the body detects a virus in the lungs, but the virus never gets past primary defences and into the lung tissue.
        
        You can liken this to a computer virus in an email. If you have a poor or no computer anti-virus and it “infects” your computer, it is an infection.
        
        If however your computer anti-virus blocks the infected email, and you never get the email in your inbox, that is not an infection. If your anti-virus blocked 47 such emails in a month, it is wrong to say you were infected 47 times.
        
        But the Covid-19 response teams count as an “infection” anyone who has come into contact with Covid-19, whether they were infected or not.
        
        You coming into contact with Covid-19, your body dispatching it and the DNA sequence recorded in your body’s anti-body ‘database’ is how you get natural immunity.
        
        With some airborne viruses, it is possible for the lungs primary defences able to dispatch the virus WITHOUT the use of anti-bodies, but the anti-body ‘database’ gets updated anyway in case next time the ingested viral load is much higher and the virus gets past the primary defences and into body tissue. In which case ‘troops’ have to be rallied to fight in the body tissue.
        
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        October 11, 2021 12:14pm
      - PhilBest
        
        Excellent, Jack Rabbit, that is spot on, exactly as I understand it and have been fighting on KB for a while
        
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        October 11, 2021 5:25pm
      - dannz
        
        PhilBest
        I’m sorry, I’m not following your logic.
        From your numbers, 3% of 5M is 150K people who don’t get a mild infection. Not insigificant?
        
        Secondly, what is the harm of getting protection against serious illness from a vaccine that has a 99.99997 survivial rate? (1 death per 3M)
        
        Also the link you provided refers to inhalation of vaccine, not the virus itself?
        
        JackRabbit
        When covid sweeps through a given unvaccinated population, ~0.2% of them will die because very few of us have existing immunity to covid. In NZ this would be 10K people. Natural immunity will be no help to that 10K or the thousands of others who have serious cases and don’t die.
        
        Why are you worried about long term effects from the new vaccine, but not long term effects from the new virus? Genuine question.
        
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        October 11, 2021 8:11pm
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Funny that was the strategy Sweden followed.
    
    No lockdowns, less deaths than neighbors that did.
    
    Less economic and social harm.
    
    In short they survived and life went on.
    
    We should stop this tyranny.
    
    80,000 people will die, “the only truth is the truth we tell you”.
    
    Accept that we got it wrong, it was all a waste of time, apologize for the damage caused, because covid was always coming sooner or later.
    
    The vaccine was not the answer.
    
    Give up the power you have given yourselves, after all, it was all about the power and control.
    
    You have failed the current generation and the next.
    
    Socialism has failed the children.
    
    Look at what has worked, “let’s do this ” and life will go on.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:10am
    - Ed Snack
      
      They did have more deaths and illness earlier on than their Nordic neighbours Denmark and Norway, but the situation has equalised as time went on.
      
      The Swedish strategy was viable and is difficult to fault on purely practical economic grounds.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:20am
  - JackRabbit
    
    Brian if herd immunity does not exist or does not work, how did the human race make it through the last six million years?
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:39am
    - JackRabbit
      
      As I expected Brian, you can’t answer that.
      
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      October 11, 2021 12:19pm
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      It made it through the last 6 million years, but Doctor Fauci and the WHO have decided that natural immunity no longer exists, done away with a stroke of the pen. Those that are double dosed and are losing their natural immunity around 6% a month, must be looking at those vaccination certificates in the EU with an allowance of 10 jabs, two then 8 boosters and wondering where this is all going to end.
      For many they will do an ostrich, stick their heads in the sand.
      These vaccines are definitely not fit for purpose, in children they are a crime perpetrated against the young.
      You would have to be one sick puppy to putting Elasomeran or Comirnaty in a child’s arm.
      
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      October 11, 2021 1:35pm
      - PhilBest
        
        Too much blazing common sense and solid background knowledge for one day on one mainstream blog! Greg and Jack. All lefties and Vichy Conservatives will need a lie down to get over it!
        
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        October 11, 2021 5:27pm
      - dannz
        
        Yes natural immunity works very well, once you have it. Historically people just died in great numbers on the way there, e.g spanish flu.
        
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        October 11, 2021 8:16pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The rabid leftie answer would be: “We did not have Covid six million years ago, so there”
      
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      October 11, 2021 2:54pm
    - JackRabbit
      
      @Steve Otto
      
      Which then begs the question, with all the dirty, unhealthy, disgusting habits, zero hygiene, cross species sexual gratification, cannibalism etc, why would Covid wait six million years to wake up?
      
      Or is it simply what it appears to be, and that of pharma opportunists thinking they know more than whoever or whatever designed the human body and started carrying out DNA altering experiments in the hope of creating an eternal recurring income selling vaccines?
      
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      October 11, 2021 3:59pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Ask Sweden perhaps?
    
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    October 11, 2021 12:40pm
- dannz
  
  If the answer isn’t everyone being vaccinated, what is the question?
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:17am
  - krazykiwi
    
    The question could be: based on an individuals demographics and their comorbidities, and when seen in the light of the known variability of risks associated with the current vaccine-like therapies, is that individual at less risk or more risk from being vaccinated?
    
    Explained another way, given the number of variables in personal risk models it would appear highly implausible that the outcome for every human is a net positive for accepting this vaccine-like therapy.
    
    I get that the ‘vaccinate everyone’ mantra is much more simple, but how many unnecessary deaths are caused by this yearning for narrative simplicity?
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:22am
    - alloytoo
      
      In short consult your own healthcare professional.
      
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      October 11, 2021 12:41pm
    - dannz
      
      How about this question:
      What is the course of action that results in the least net deaths across a given population?
      
      Or if you like to weight it for age:
      What is the course of action that results in the least net years of life lost across a given population.
      
      This also takes into account that that vaccination doesn’t only affect individual risk, but the risk to others in the population. This especially applies when available hospital capacity is taken into account.
      
      How many deaths do you expect from vaccinating everyone in NZ?
      
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      October 11, 2021 8:26pm
- Sacha
  
  Kerry watsit is doing her morning rant anti the non- vaxxers.
  But my questions of the day are:
  are there any people here on Kiwiblog. who have been through MIQ with positive covid19 swabs?
  What medical support did they get?
  Were they issued with prophylactic meds to kill off their infection?
  If not, what were their instructions should they become symptomatic?
  In my opinion it would be wise for the MoH to commission a few hundred thousand packs to distribute as the country is opened up and the Delta variant patrols the country. Including the drug-that-must-not-be-named. (Or perhaps thePfizer pill that was announced this morning?)
  Nobody volunteers to go to hospital, so how about helping them to stay away?
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:20am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Were they issued with prophylactic meds to kill off their infection?
    
    My daughter got Covid in London. She was given paracetamol and told to stay home for 10 days. No VitD3, VitC, Zinc. She recovered in about a week.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:51am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      That’s doing it the hard way.
      Why doctors can abandon basic world-wide, tens of centuries, proven immune system helpers is beyond reason? Every society has natural aids to health they have discovered. Sunshine and the right diet is an implicit part of that.
      
      Is the insurance industry in the USA behind this as they are principal paymasters and we are global bootlickers.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:12am
      - Sacha
        
        They are not abandoning it world-wide. There are many excellent interviews on the net with doctors who have managed their practices successfully, using tried and true methods for keeping their patients well and treating the symptomatic people promptly, and effectively.
        
        And Dr John Campbell has been reporting daily for the last 16 months.
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eO9cjy3Rydc
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:39am
    - Ed Snack
      
      This just shows the blindness and idiocy that permeates the medical establishment. There are effective treatments that significantly reduce the chances of a person developing severe symptoms.
      
      So why do doctors want people to get sicker ?
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:21am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      Maybe we could add aspirin to your excellent suggestions
      https://www.jpost.com/health-and-wellness/aspirin-lowers-risk-of-covid-new-findings-support-preliminary-israeli-trial-681127
      
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      October 11, 2021 2:06pm
- cas
  
  So what happens when Auckland gets up to 90% fully jabbed and other pockets of the country are still behind like 70% if they are lucky. ( Some only 60% first jab).Is she going to give Auckland the leave pass then?
  Incidentally I see that the last stats from Oz are total country wide 82.22% 1st jab, 61.93% second and in NSW 90.33% 1st jab, 73.53 2nd jab. these are for over 16. It wasn’t so long ago both NZ and Aus were the same at about 20%. What’s the difference? They went hard and we didn’t.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:04am
peterwn

Sir Tim Shadbolt is suing his Council to recover $448,000 of legal costs which he incurred to successfully defend a defamation suit brought against him (it went to a jury trial). Much of the legal costs, along with legal costs incurred by Stuff (Southland Times), should be borne by the Plaintiff, but the Plaintiff cannot pay them so Stuff successfully sought bankrupcy. Tim is seeking legal aid to pursue his claim against Council.

The Plaintiff (a fellow councillor) sued for defamation over statements Tim included in his fortnightly contributions to the Southland Times. Tim most probably would have asked the Council at the beginning to defend him. Council most probably would have referred the matter to its insurers who considered it was not covered as matters of this sort between councillors are not covered. Hence Council (probably on the advice of the CEO who would have sought a legal opinion) declined to ‘cover’ Tim. If the Council had, it would have been subject to ire from ratepayers and the Taxpayers Union.

Unfortunately there is no online judgment on the Justice Ministry’s ‘Judicial Decisions Online’ web site as it was a jury trial. However searching on ‘Shadbolt’ brings up preliminary judgments and a decision declining the Plaintiff’s application for a re-trial. These decisions provide very useful background.

I was sympathetic to Tim’s situation until I delved a bit deeper. I formed the opinion that the articles Tim penned were not really relevant to his functions and duties as Mayor and they were excessively ‘edgy’ with respect to the Plaintiff such that a judge declined to ‘strike out’ the claims as being ‘hopeless’. In fairness to Tim the judge strongly signalled to the Plaintiff that she should drop the claim (she chose to continue what strongly seemed a Kamikaze mission). I am now of the view that Tim should have been more circumspect in his writing and can see why the ratepayers should not be bailing him out. I am slightly surprised that the Southland Times editor did not pick up on this and requested that Tim tone it down.

I think the Associate Judge who heard the latest skirmish displayed great wisdom (decision given a month ago). Tim’s case was against both the Council and the insurers and things were getting convoluted and bogged down. It goes to hearing on 8 February 2022. The Judge has ruled that only Tim’s main claim against the Council be considered initially. If Tim prevails the Council and insurers can sort out between themselves whether the Council iis covered. If Tim is not successful he has a few other causes of action against the Council and insurers but I think he would be pushing it uphill.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out. Incidentally if Tim loses out and ends up being bankrupted (he is at the mercy of his lawyers), this does not automatically disqualify him from being Mayor (to my surprise).
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October 11, 2021 8:02am
- Rich Prick
  
  And to add insult, he seeks to tap into taxpayer pockets to have a crack at his ratepayers’ pockets.
  
  https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/126621078/mayor-sir-tim-shadbolt-to-apply-for-legal-aid-as-battle-against-his-invercargill-council-continues
  
  I imagine his handsome mayoral salary will disqualify that application.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:28am
  - peterwn
    
    Legal aid can be granted on the basis it has to be paid back and security taken over property if considered appropriate. In this instance repayment installments would be justified since he earns well above average income. Fortunately the Associate Judge has stripped down the issues for the 8 February 2022 hearing to the barest minimum (it was not what either side wanted but the Judge has really done Tim a big favour while remaining fair to the Council and insurers). Hence this will minimise preparation and hearing costs since only the well defined key issue will be considered. If Tim prevails at that hearing then the Council and insurers will need to sort out between themselves who pays and Tim will be out of it.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:43am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Does Shadbolt really not have $448,000 of assets after all the years his snout has been in the trough?
  
  But people, especially elected officials, should not be able to weaponise defamation as a political strategy and courts should insist on security for costs if they try.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:36am
  - peterwn
    
    Tim was on the receiving end of the unsuccessful defamation suit and had no option but to fight it. Tim and Stuff (Southland Times) did seek security of costs from Karen (her real name!) (a former Southland Times journo) but she swore an affidavit that she could meet expected costs and on that basis the court declined the application to seek costs security. Courts are very reluctant to seek security for costs or to ‘strike out’ actions and that stance left Tim exposed to a marginally frivolous or vexatious suit which Karen took right to a jury trial. A judge in preliminary proceedings strongly advised Karen to drop the suit but she chose to continue her Kamikaze mission and ended up being bankrupted by Stuff.
    I consider the Courts should me more aggressive in ordering security for costs especially where the case is identified as weak. The court in this instance should have insisted on security for costs.
    It is said that ‘justice is open to all – like the Ritz Hotel’. Poor Tim was forced to stay at the Ritz against his will.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:26am
    - Jack5
      
      So someone sues you for defamation, you defend the claim and win, and you are, or may be, bankrupted.
      
      Shouldn’t lawyers and courts bear some of the costs when a losing party is bankrupted? Shouldn’t they bear some of the risk?
      
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      October 11, 2021 2:15pm
      - peterwn
        
        That is why the judge concerned should have accepted Tim’s application to order that Karen provided security for costs. Her own lawyers would almost certainly have insisted she provided security for her own costs. I do not know what the arrangement was between Tim and his lawyers was but perhaps they were noble enough to take the risk following failure to obtain security for costs. I doubt Karen’s lawyers can be held responsible for that. Good point made that the Court should meet Tim’s costs since the Court denied a legitimate ‘security’ application, but it is not going to happen. Stuff was quite ruthless in bankrupting Karen and the Court declined her plea to stave off bankruptcy.
        It would be by no means certain that Tim’s lawyers would seek his bankruptcy, especially if Tim makes a reasonable effort to pay as much of their fees as he is able to. He is a bit long in the tooth to be re-establishing a concreting business at his stage of life.
        
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        October 11, 2021 7:22pm
- kowtow
  
  Ironic how the Media Pardy’s rebellious “iconic” heroes of yesteryear have become today’s troughers living off the earnings of tax and ratepayers.
  
  ( Think all those anti Vietnam / Tour hippy types)
  
  In reality they were always a bunch of bums.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:20am
70andstilllearning

Happy Freedom Day – oops sorry – that’s NSW (:
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October 11, 2021 8:04am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  When authoritarian communists grab power they don’t like to give it back.
  
  They will donly everything in thier power to hold onto it.
  
  Covid has given them the oportunity they have been waiting for.
  
  It will not end until the sheeple stand up and say enough.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:16am
  - Bob
    
    have been waiting for….
    this was the gleeful comment from Robertson following the 2021 election once he realised that Labour had an outright majority; and could now do what they had been wanting to do but hadn’t been able too because of Winston.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:24am
- Cinematic
  
  Haha! I want me some of that!
  
  Although expecting plenty of carnage from the silly vaccination apartheid policy which won’t be adhered to or enforced.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:22am
Stu2

I was looking at the RNZ covid visualisations and spotted one that blew me away – don’t think I’ve seen this before.

Ethnicity of current cases
Maori 199
Pacific 117
European/Other 94
Asian 27
Unknown 14
Middle Eastern, Latin American and African 5

So Maori are massively over represented, and under vaccinated. No wonder Willie was talking to the gangs.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers
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October 11, 2021 8:07am
- Sacha
  
  But how many of them have died (from the viral infection?). Presumably they have recovered, and if they are the most at risk group, then there isn’t a lot to worry about?
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:25am
  - MCos
    
    Most people do recover, just as 95% of kids who got polio recovered too
    It’s the others with long term or permanent damage that are the problem in NZ rather than the fatalities.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:11am
    - Ed Snack
      
      According to Wikipedia (I know, I know), the CFR for polio varies from 2-5% for children to 15-30% in adults. Higher if respiratory assistance is not available.
      
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      October 11, 2021 6:32pm
    - ClanMcleod
      
      So what are the plague victim numbers to date for NZ? Maybe we need to go to level 5? Or maybe level 6? I hear level 6 means we’ll all live forever?
      
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      October 11, 2021 8:40pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Sacha it’s not about the facts. It’s about models based on complex maybes. $6m worth.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:35am
- David Garrett
  
  Stu2: If the answer to the problem of under-vaccinated Maori is using gangs, then we are indeed in a sorry state.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:12am
  - Stu2
    
    I fast forwarded Willie yesterday, but I imagine the goal is getting the gang leadership to have gang members get vaccinated. Looks like they have been a major source of spread.
    
    Not using gangs to influence maori non-gang members.
    
    I guess with numbers like these you hold your nose and try everything.
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:34am
- bronny1
  
  I’m surprised they were allowed to even report that, normally it would come with some statements about how racist we are to allow that to happen. Despite Maori/Pacifika being first dibs on the vaccine. Despite special programmes and vax centres only for them.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:17am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who out of the groups listed tend to be obese or grossly obese? It’s the Polynesians (Maori and Pacifica.) That, coupled with the likely diabetes or other excess fat related illnesses, seems to be a big attractant to Covid striking hard.
  
  This weight problem is not a colonial introduction. It is throughout Polynesia where fattened up Chief’s daughters are promoted. I suspect it is an adaptation over the centuries to seasonal hurricanes which can leave an island population starving.
  Chiefs who have better fat reserves are more likely to survive. Allow time and genetics and a propensity to excessive weight creeps in. I believe our Polynesian people cannot help their weight so we must accord them extra health consideration not just blame for liking takeaways.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:30am
  - Stu2
    
    Maybe but these are cases, not hospitalisations
    
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    October 11, 2021 1:04pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      They land up in hospital later with complications arising out of body mass.
      
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      October 11, 2021 2:34pm
Frank the tank

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/fiji/

If Fiji’s hospitals and government copes ours will too. These so-called experts claiming that the NZ health system will collapse is nothing but scare porn.

Incidentally people from NSW will be able to have a holiday to Fiji by December…..
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October 11, 2021 8:09am
- Stu2
  
  You believe the numbers for Fiji?
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:25am
  - Cinematic
    
    Why not? You got a better source?
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:36am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Why not. It’s not as if their hospitals are overrun is it.
    
    Not a lot of scare porn concerning their “plight” on TV anymore
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:14am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      India vanished too. As did the mass graves in NY, and the people dropping dead in Wuhan. Amazing how the media fantasy stories all seem to last a week and then it’s onto the next scare story.
      The mainstream media are dead after this.
      
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      October 11, 2021 8:44pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  India the great disaster a few months ago is opening up, negative test requirement regardless of vaccinated or not.
  https://www.traveloffpath.com/india-reopening-to-international-tourists-october-15/
  
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  October 11, 2021 1:42pm
krazykiwi

The breathless, lying MSM

New York Times Forced to Correct Article Claiming 900,000 Children Hospitalised by Covid – Real Figure Is 63,000
The New York Times has been forced to retract a claim by its reporter Apoorva Mandavilli that “nearly 900,000 children have been hospitalised with Covid since the pandemic began”. This figure isn’t just slightly off the mark – it’s 837,000 cases too high.

Mandavilli included this exaggeration in a piece on the vaccination of healthy children against Covid. It is bound to have swayed some minds. The National Review has more.

Mandavilli has been a controversial figure at the Times for her ideologically-colored pandemic coverage. In May, she tweeted: “Someday we will stop talking about the lab leak theory and maybe even admit its racist roots. But alas, that day is not today.” She later deleted the tweet but not before adding: “A theory can have racist roots and still gather reasonable supporters along the way. Doesn’t make the roots any less racist or the theory any more convincing, though.”
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October 11, 2021 8:10am
- PhilBest
  
  I also bet some of the 63,000 were RSV or some other respiratory condition, too, not Covid. Or a positive Covid test occurred well after initial hospitalization.
  
  It was obvious when NZ was having its RSV outbreak, that it was happening all over the world and was being called “Covid” everywhere except where Covid had been “eliminated”.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:13am
- mikenmildagain
  
  It is indeed encouraging that reputable newspapers such as the NYT retract incorrect statements.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:18am
  - CJames
    
    Doesn’t it more likely just indicate poor quality journalism, sub-editting and fact checking.
    IIRC, they had an article that was a rant against Trumpists with this in. It was only after they got challenged, then ridiculed about the claim that they checked and had to issue the apology.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:41am
    - David Garrett
      
      CJ: Quite so…back in the day if a paper had to issue an apology and retract something, heads would roll, because it meant someone in the chain from reporter to press hadn’t done their job.
      
      Now, in New Zealand papers at least, there is no “someone” to check that the news is “fit to print”…it flows directly from some junior reporter’s keyboard to the person laying out the pages. Complete with the inevitable spelling mistakes – they have spell check FFS – bad grammar and syntax, and often sentences or even whole paras repeated because the reporter forgot to delete his first draft of it.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:18am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Not very encouraging that they feel emboldened to issue such nonsense, unchecked, in the first place. Only done because of ideological bias too.
    
    Wonder if the retraction was published in their usual place, page 37, small print, amongst the classified ads.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:26am
- Vory v zakone
  
  In related news, Sleepy Joe’s VAXX MANDATE is all p*ss and wind (so far)
  https://thefederalist.com/2021/10/07/joe-bidens-vaccine-mandate-doesnt-exist-its-just-a-press-release/
  
  Will St Cindy’s be the same?
  
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  October 11, 2021 4:58pm
Simon

MSM: Covid numbers at 1 pm! Join us livestream to see if our Covid Expert merely pisses his pants or actually shits himself!
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October 11, 2021 8:11am
- Ruawai
  
  Think it will be 4pm today after cabinet.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:30am
- info@cruzpro.com
  
  Then the lockdown decisions at 4 pm so they get to be seen twice each day. Why not combine the releases?
  
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  October 11, 2021 1:17pm
Cinematic

I’ve lost count of what day it is but for those out of town yes, Auckland is slowly suffocating.

We’re still protecting the hospital system 19 months down the track. 19 months.

All the while it’s clear this government has achieved basically nothing. Zilch. Nada.
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October 11, 2021 8:12am
- Ed Snack
  
  Day 440 of 15 to reduce the spread…
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:27am
- Scott
  
  Cinematic – I think Auckland has been in lockdown for 55 days.
  But never fear. Jacinda has made an announcement this morning. The announcement was that she will make an announcement this afternoon.
  So all is well. We wait for the announcement from the pulpit of truth. 🙂
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:48am
Peter Lane

More doom and gloom from the modeling fraternity this morning.

Rod Jackson is “majorly freaking out”. You may remember this guy from many years ago opining that butter was poison and that you were basically dead if you ate it.

Then we have Hendy at it again saying a return to Level 4 is imminent.

Why do these people keep getting oxygen from the media? It baffles me. If the intention is to push people to get vaccinated then it’s misguided at best and downright criminal at worst. I consider myself to be a pretty upbeat person but I’m really struggling with a sense of hopelessness at the moment. I’m sick to death of the negative bullshit from people that have absolutely no credibility.

STOP SCARING PEOPLE.
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October 11, 2021 8:15am
- Tricati
  
  What do you expect when the Government is paying them ‘model’ this shit and to align with their agenda.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/analysis-government-money-for-covid-modelling-has-flowed-overwhelmingly-to-one-group/IVV7GMBX7Q2MS7Y2TTJMV6LW3Y/
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:21am
- Paulus
  
  Didn’t Hendy and his associates at Auckland Uni recently get a large amount of uncontested funds, for their support of the Labour Government ?
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:24am
- Ra Henare
  
  I have started complaining under the Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA) whenever they interview Hendy and the other modeler and ask them about what they think should happen next, etc etc.
  
  They are FCKING modellers and have NO EXPERTISE or authority in such matters.
  All they should say is that.
  The models show/predict blah blah blah
  
  and where is the Balance. Ie another view (Plan B?)
  
  PS. Jackson is a twat.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:25am
  - PhilBest
    
    Covid model forecast track records:
    
    https://twitter.com/mattwridley/status/1445035926200197129?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1445035926200197129%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwmbriggs.com%2Fpost%2F37582%2F
    
    https://twitter.com/bizmanic/status/1444733387080671236
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:12am
  - doggone7
    
    I heard Jackson on RNZ. He stated his opinions. If you don’t want opinions listen to stations like newstalkzb. Apparently there you get The Truth.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:50am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      RNZ is state propaganda, same as the rest of the bought and paid for shills in the mainstream media. How much was the “bailout”/ bribe? $120 million? Then the ongoing advertising spend, 24/7 on every single medium in the country?
      Goebbels would have a wet dream thinking of having these resources on hand.
      Rod Jackson is another clueless academic. Just like all the others.
      
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      October 11, 2021 8:57pm
- Cinematic
  
  One point I’ll add Peter. They’re not just receiving prime time slots in the msm. Their departments are receiving gazillions of our taxpayer dollars to frighten us all.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:26am
- cmm
  
  These people have their uses when playing their part in the Good Cop/Bad Cop manipulations of the people.
  
  Have the Bad Cop “experts” provide an outrageous set of scenarios and propose an extremely draconian set of measures.
  
  Then what Good Cop Cindy comes up with sounds a lot more reasonable.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:26am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  You need a crisis to justify taking away people’s privacy and freedom.
  
  80,000 WI’LL die
  7,000 WI’LL die
  Climate CRISIS people will die.
  
  You offer them kindness and the illusion of safety, tell them that everything will be alright, that you and only you have the answers.
  
  “The only truth is the truth that we tell you” today.
  
  The grab the power and take control.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:27am
  - JackRabbit
    
    “The only truth is the truth that we tell you”
    
    vs
    
    “We have no monopoly on the truth. If eating 23 grams of blueberries while standing on one leg and holding a rabbits foot could cure Covid we would support that and tell the vaccine companies ‘NO’.
    
    We will do whatever works. Lockdowns don’t work as fresh air and sunshine are paramount to good health. Nutrition is also important so we will not force the closure of small butchers and fruit and vege shops and markets.
    
    You are far more likely to get Covid at a closed in supermarket with recycled air than an open air market.
    
    We will do whatever works.”
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:01am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Agree. Unsurprisingly, I know many people who are separated from adult children, grand children, and elderly parents in other countries.
  
  As time passes this is affecting the mental health of people. Main problem is there is no plan. No end point.
  
  There is only one thing that will drive Jacinda to end the madness – and that is a stunning drop in the polls. Otherwise the changes in 2022 will be minimal.
  
  Fully vaccinated people might be able to travel if they isolate at home for 14 days on return, but their families will need to move out of the house. There will be no quarantine free travel for anyone in 2022. And that will kill travel because the few seats available will cost a fortune. I’ll be over moon to be wrong but that is my prediction.
  
  Mask wearing in public will be permanent – or for at least years to come.
  
  90 percent of restaurants and other venues will be barred to the unvaccinated. It won’t be compulsory but the alternative will be occupancy limits which will drive most venues out of business.
  
  Such an environment will have a terrible human cost.
  
  As I said, I am happy if I am wrong. Of course as there is literally NO PLAN, my scenario is just as valid as any other.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:33am
  - James Stephenson
    
    I’m happy to be vaccinated, it seems like the sensible prudent course of action for a bloke in his 50’s. There is however, absolutely no way that I will carry some “passport” that any Tom, Dick or Harry (or cop) can demand to see at any time. I’ve never done civil disobedience before, not being a chain-yourself-to-a-digger kind of guy, but this is a hill I’m prepared to die on.
    
    We have to strongly resist the creeping facism of this government, do not allow them to “other” our fellow Kiwis who have for whatever reason decided that the vaccine is not for them.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:49am
    - westernScientest
      
      I plan to carry it, and if a business asks to see it, show it to them, then leave. Just so the businesses know they are loosing money just for checking them.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:09am
      - Surely Knott
        
        I got a promotion from a clothing company asking them to send your double vaccine status to go into the draw for $10,000. Their own privacy policy says they won’t ask for your health info. I don’t need moral or health coercion from a clothing store. . And offering $10,000 for a provisional vaccine which has (very rarely) death and myocarditis as a side effect is morally dubious. I let them know I’m not interested in their woke inc. marketing. And unsubscribed.
        
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        October 11, 2021 1:35pm
      - calendar girl
        
        Very clever tactic, wS.
        
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        October 11, 2021 1:54pm
    - Inandout
      
      JS, the present ‘proof of jab’ bit of paper is so easily forged. The welcome desk lady had a whole bundle of vaccination cards which looked like something out of the old Weetbix packets and they weren’t numbered like raffle tickets. Little wonder some countries have dropped the ‘passport’ requirement.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:06am
    - pdm
      
      JS – creeping facism of this Government?
      
      Do you not mean – rampant facism of this government.
      
      BTW mrspdm and I have both been vaccinated on the advice of our GP – have not discussed with each other what we will do if vaccine passports come in. A decision for the future.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:14am
    - rouppe
      
      I’ll be actively avoiding places that require masks.
      
      Friend just came back from a week in the south island. There were places there that actively said “we don’t do masks here”
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:21am
  - NoFax
    
    Benedict – I think there is good reason to think the terrible picture you paint is not going to happen.
    
    First, humans are inherently lazy so enforcement will drop to zero quickly as it isn’t possible. Second, overseas people go back to normal very quickly as that is the most human thing. A friend of mine in the Netherlands said that people are walking around without masks, shaking hands, and not social distancing.
    
    One of the most destructive parts of the measures has been the inhuman aspect to them. Humans are meant to see each other’s face, touch, and interact. We can only do that for so long before it breaks down.
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:08am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Those of us with the ability to still think rationally will do what we do. We will meet and we will sing and dance and do all of the things that makes humanity worth being part of. We might be a minority but we won’t discriminate and we will enjoy life the way it is meant to be enjoyed.
    Those who want to live in suppressed misery can go for it, but stop telling the rest of us to stop living. Stay away from me if you’re worried. I don’t care, I’ve got a life to live.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:03pm
- pdm
  
  According to Mike Hosking Hendy has very recently been gifted between $6m and $10m by our Government. Angry Andy was duck shoving the question to Hipkins when asked about it breaching cabinet rules just after 7am this morning.
  
  A slippery lot aren’t they – no one will take responsibility for anything..
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:33am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    It’s not Cabinet rules being breached pdm, but I would be very surprised if this isn’t referred to the Auditor-General to see if it complies with government procurement rules, given it was uncontested funding. Little seemed very surprised by the revelation, given it was prominent in the public domain yesterday.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:50am
    - pdm
      
      Thanks for clarifying INV.
      
      I did not word that as well as I could have.
      
      Most amazing – my log in dropped out about 30 seconds after my previous response to JS. Logged in and my comment as well – first two lines above had vanished too.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:23am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Stop being scared.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:39am
  - Albert_Ross
    
    I’m not scared of covid. I’ve had my jabs, and I’ll get the booster when it’s available. Covid is well down the list of candidates for my eventual cause of death.
    
    I am, however, very scared of the prospect set out by Benedict above.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:55am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      I’m not scared of covid and I have not had my jabs, as you put it.
      
      I want covid so I can get the stronger better natural antibodies.
      
      I visit all the sites of interest in my area and do everything short of licking the shelves.
      
      At 99.7% surviveability happy to roll the dice and take my chances.
      
      But anybody with a compromised immune system should get, the jab, and isolate.
      
      At 50% I would not be so to roll the dice and take my chances.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:32am
      - SmokerGuy
        
        Fine but what about my taxpayer money going towards treating you if you end up in hospital when you wouldn’t with a vaccine? Despite what some people on here say vaccines dramatically reduce your chances of hospitalisation
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:43am
    - Simon
      
      Dont mind Brian. He had a breakdown over someone just posting on KB.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:33am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      This shit will not stop until we vote the socialists out – and that includes the National Party socialists
      
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      October 11, 2021 3:50pm
  - mara
    
    Speaking of scared, one of the reasons some people won’t have the jab is simply because they are terrified of injections and watching close ups of jabs being given on TV news all the time just scares them more. It’s a real phobia.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:19am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Never had near death from anaphylaxis have you? I have
      
      2 1
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      October 11, 2021 3:51pm
  - alloytoo
    
    Scared of what?
    
    Covid?
    Erosion of Civil liberties?
    Economic implosion?
    
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    October 11, 2021 12:49pm
- nathie
  
  Alas the “Six Million Dollar ~~Man~~ Modeler”, won’t stop scaring people soon, on the contrary the more he scares the more his snout sucks up taxpayer troughs and further potential funding opportunities.
  
  But more importantly what does our dear PM think, seeing that she relies on (and promotes at the podium of strewth) non-peer reviewed and generously non-contestable funded scare tactics?
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:51am
- Gravelroad
  
  @Peter Lane-
  “Then we have Hendy saying a return to Level 4 is imminent”
  Well not for me it ain’t.
  By allowing herself to be sucked in by the opportunistic gangs, Ms Ardern is reaping what she has sown.
  Different rules have been permitted for gang members facilitating their travel round the countryside (many unvaccinated) to deliver drugs and prostitutes under the guise of encouraging vaccination amongst the people under their control.
  Now the virus is away thanks to the gang leaders taking advantage of a soft Prime Minister and her idiotic, conceited ministers.
  So, no thanks. My cooperation regarding lockdowns is way down the list of priorities.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:09am
- Bobba Fret
  
  Every time I see Hendy on the TV my blood boils. I’m sure he would like the whole of NZ to stay at level 4 forever to eliminate Covid. May as well bull doze the shopping malls and halls and stadiums as under his utopia, we would never be allowed to congregate in groups of more than 10.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:51am
- David Garrett
  
  Peter Lane: Good points. But playing Devil’s Advocate, I believe a lot of the “negative bullshit” is because they are making it up as they go along, and simply don’t know what’s happening and how to deal with it.
  
  See my fuller comment upthread.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:22am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Before Hendy & Co. proceed with their academic chicanery let them explain how these “vaccines” were ever approved? They only got emergency status and that, after denying, that any other treatment was possible. Eyes in very high places were blindfolded and some govt advisers gained backhanders from patents and Big Pharma, control and riches.
  
  The whole process was tainted by deceit. Even worse it matches outlines of a suggested plan several years prior. Was this in fact an actual planned event, was it deliberately launched or accidentally?
  
  We are being very tolerant of an extraordinary situation. It is causing havoc beyond measure. The actual health impact may be trivial relative to the overall life situation. The NWO have announced plans to take advantage of it for a Great Reset.
  Watch your Politicians they may not be friendly.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:45am
- Tom Hunter
  
  Why do these people keep getting oxygen from the media? It baffles me.
  
  It shouldn’t. This is simply the MSM’s line since the 1970’s when the phrase was coined that:
  
  If it bleeds, it leads
  
  Simple as that. Bad news gets eyeballs (and nowadays “clicks”). Scaring people is just a by-product and in any case it probably makes them want to tune in for the next horrifying episode…
  
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  October 11, 2021 12:39pm
- ClanMcleod
  
  Every single “expert” we hear from is a career academic. Not a single week experience in a real world environment? Who the f$%# decided this bunch of geeks were the best people to advise government about health issues? There isn’t an experienced medical person among them. Not one. It is farcical that someone like a Hendy, a physicist, or Plank, a mathematician, seem to have so much sway over public policy. Madness.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:52pm
krazykiwi

There was some discussion over the weekend about the extent to which police operate under the orders of politicians. This story is relevant: –

Australian cop quits after bombshell interview, claims most colleagues ‘suffering’ & don’t want to enforce tough Covid-19 rules

Some rough behavior by the police during the pandemic might be partially explained by the enforcement approach taken by Victoria Premier Daniel Andrews, Mitchell suggested. “I think that the reason, or the issue, in why perhaps police [are] feeling more emboldened to act the way they are in relation to these harsher actions is because of the messaging that comes from Dan [Andrews],” who tells the law enforcers what to do “on a daily basis,” she said.

“The consequences of me being here today, is that I will be resigning from Victoria Police, effective the end of this interview because the consequences of me coming out publicly would be dismissal,” Mitchell announced.

I watched the first 20 minutes of the interview. Ms Mitchell is a brave lady.
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October 11, 2021 8:16am
- kowtow
  
  ‘under the orders of politicians.’
  
  Look at the so called ‘iwi led’ road blocks .
  
  Where’s our Media to hold that abuse to account.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:40am
- Fletch
  
  I see that Dan Andrews (who pushed some of the hardest vaccine mandates etc) has been caught twice breaking the law by not wearing a mask in public. It seems to be a familiar story that these leaders don’t like to follow their own draconian laws.
  
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  October 11, 2021 12:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Pink terror got off the hook C/- Blofeld
    
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    October 11, 2021 5:03pm
cmm

Depending on what her awesome inchewishun tells her, AKL kids will go back to school.

I wonder whether the teachers unions will allow it. I’m sure most of them are getting far too used to spending the day in front of the telly.

Not only do the coming generation have to face a booming debt, they have to do it with the worst schooling that NZ has ever seen and now even less of that!

But no doubt we have some time for quality poi-waving.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-d-day-for-auckland-alert-level-phase-cabinet-meets-after-60-new-cases/DJH7LAK7UEHIFEM4M32FSYCN3I/
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October 11, 2021 8:16am
- Cassandra
  
  What’s the NZ version of Let’s go, Brandon?
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:20am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Sports and other crowd chants does seem an effective means of circumventing partisan media filtered reporting of public sentiment. Let’s go Brandon has legs
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:39am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    We know what the version is and who it refers to, but it may be a bit much for the mods and we will get a holiday. Imagine that, a holiday in NZ.
    Let’s go Brandon
    
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    October 11, 2021 3:55pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Let’s Go Jacinda !
    
    It could trend, it could.
    
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    October 11, 2021 7:25pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  ‘….worst schooling that NZ has ever seen and now even less of that!’
  Think the grand kids have caught up with some home schooling and structure!
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:22am
- kevn
  
  @cmm… ‘She’ must be reading all the kids letters.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:22am
- Cinematic
  
  A decent chunk of kids don’t bother turning up these days preferring to receive their schooling from fortnite and suchlike.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:28am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Communism has failed the children.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:31am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Communism has always failed everyone outside of the Nomenklature.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:12am
    - alloytoo
      
      Communism is really just another form of slavery.
      
      The walls are there to keep you in.
      
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      October 11, 2021 1:00pm
Yvette

Although Winston’s statements on the women (one found, the other still being sought) who travelled around Northland, are questioned by many as to the veracity of his television “exposē”, he did say one woman when she returned a covid positive test, fled to a marae which hid her, and, while the Police acquired a warrant, she had moved on.

Since Coster’s predecessor, Police Commissioner Mike Bush, took “the extraordinary step of signing off a media release that rejects the speculation” regarding Clarke Gayford, and Commissioner Coster himself – urged people to exercise caution regarding unverified information on social media. “I would urge anyone who comes across this type of information to be aware that much of what is circulating on social media platforms [regarding Auckland supermarket knife attacker, Samsudeen], is either false, or inaccurate,” he said in a statement., perhaps Coster should now clarify information on the matters in Northland.

Either confirm Winston’s television broadcast statements, that Police had to get a warrant for the woman while a marae had hid her (perhaps pertinent to Maori uptake of the vaccine), or have Health Director Bloomfield, under the Health Order, initiate charges for spreading mis-information – as a number of doctors now appear to be facing.
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October 11, 2021 8:23am
- David Garrett
  
  Yvette: Well said. But don’t hold your breath waiting for an announcement that says:
  
  “The woman now held in MIQ who traveled around Northland while Covid positive is a prostitute managed and controlled by the X chapter of the Mongrel Mob.”
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:26am
  - Ruawai
    
    The Media are not asking if Tam brought her across the BOP/Auckland border.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:38am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Ardern told Ryan Bridges the uncooperative covid case was NOT a prostitute and there was no evidence of gang involvement. Of course in her usual clear and transparent manner she left some wiggle room.
    Earlier on Peters was trying to bluster his way past questions about whether his story from yesterday still stacks up today.
    Hard to find two less trustworthy individuals.
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:51am
G152

So why is Cindy (and mob) allowed to break the barriers?
Are liebor immune to the laws they pass ?????????????
Okay. So we get the two shots and then its not all over.
Because we can still get Covid and pass it on.
And there are people out there who have Covid and dont know but who can pass it on.
And is cindy as bored with the news from the dais as we are ????????
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October 11, 2021 8:23am
Maggy Wassilieff

Clint Smith opines that Our Dear PM shines in moments of crisis:
“We’ve seen Ardern provide a vision in moments of crisis again and again,” Smith says. “It has been the defining aspect of her prime ministership.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/09/jacinda-ardern-facing-biggest-challenge-yet-as-new-zealand-switches-to-covid-suppression

But now Our Dear Leader is facing a crisis that is lasting longer than a few moments and is looking bleaker by the day… what tricks can she pull out of the bag?
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October 11, 2021 8:30am
- pdm
  
  Well hiding in Ruatoria when the grit hits the fan is pretty much in line with her modus operendi.
  
  Inland to Mt. Hikurangi from there – oops it was Helen Clarke who went tramping and mountain climbing. Jacinda prefers not to get her shoes or hands dirty.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:37am
- RiP NZ
  
  My word, that literally generated a small vomit in the back of my throat.
  
  What is leadership? I’ve had some minor experience and professional development in this area, far from an expert. If I had applied the leadership style Ardern has promoted I would have created a team of negative synergy, one where half is pitched against the other, segregated and blamed. Business performance would tank and I would be out of a job.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:38am
  - doggone7
    
    What is leadership?
    
    When it was happening people said Muldoon was a brilliant leader. All these years later so many who railed against anyone who disagreed with that at the time, are now casually accepting that he was just a bully. They have the approaches they lauded as being detrimental to the country.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:00am
- kowtow
  
  None of her previous so called successes in crisis were anything other than very shallow , carefully stage managed acts.
  
  Its’ a shame that so many people have invested so heavily in the theatre that New Zealand has become .
  
  Even her latest “road trip” is just more of the same , a distraction ,in order to keep her off the critical centre stage while the curtains come down on their most important play , the elimination story.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:38am
- krazykiwi
  
  Poor old Clint. He wrote all that one-handed no doubt.
  
  In truth, if it is a manufactured crisis, one her spinmeisters have created, then she fronts for the cameras, with deft deployments of frowny face, bobbly head, and toothy smile.
  
  If it’s a genuine crisis with potential to reflect badly on her messianic brand then she cowardly slips away, and pushes minions into the glare of public scrutiny.
  
  She is the weakest leader in New Zealand’s history.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:39am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Could you please name the second, third and fourth-weakest?
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:41am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      2. Bill Rowling
      3. Geoffrey Palmer
      4. Walter Nash
      
      There you go mike. No problems at all.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:16am
      - David Garrett
        
        Vino: I am too young to remember Walter Nash, but I certainly agree with your first two…although I’d probably reverse the positions: Rowling was a guy with an unfortunate high pitched voice who was on the political stage at the same time as Muldoon, and he had to deal with the first oil shock.
        
        For those who can’t remember that, petrol prices effectively tripled in about three months (IIRC) which in turn impacted on the price of absolutely everything. And back then we had no domestic oil production at all, so we were much more fucked than many other countries.
        
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        October 11, 2021 10:33am
      - Ed Snack
        
        One thing I do remember about Rowling, which was a good try but flopped because he just wasn’t the guy who could carry it off. Back when “Fred Dagg” was on TV he had a skit where he had a flat tire, and turns up at a petrol station and addresses the attendant, who happens to be Rowling. Fred asks “Are you the man responsible for inflation ?” While holding up the obviously very flat tire. Rowling replies something along the lines “many people seem to think so…”
        
        Got a laugh, sort of, but Rowling just looked self conscious and it didn’t really work as it could of. Unlike, say, Muldoon, who, when playing the narrator in a stage version of the Rocky Horror Picture Show, actually seemed to be having a whale of a time doing it.
        
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        October 11, 2021 7:31pm
    - pdm
      
      Mikey: Bill Rowling was right up there in the weakest stakes and I was only a kid (12 years old) when Nash started – not sure he was that flash once he got the reins he so desired.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:27am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Mike, where are you? All day and you skipped school on that question
      
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      October 11, 2021 5:12pm
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    So says the bird without a name.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:44am
    - David Garrett
      
      This is rich coming from the POS who hid behind “Nostalgia-NZ” for years. You never did say what you were nostalgic for Brian; perhaps for the time back when you only got ten years for murder? Do enlighten us.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:30am
  - James Stephenson
    
    She is the weakest leader in New Zealand’s history.
    
    As previously discussed, leaders give credit for success to the people they lead and take responsibility for failures. Ardern does the exact opposite, every single fricken time.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:52am
    - pdm
      
      I thought they took credit from:
      
      1. Increase in Beneficiary numbers.
      2. Increase in Public Servant numbers.
      
      All ministers and MP’s are working hard on 2 and Carmel Sepuloni is putting in a sterling performance on 1.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:30am
  - Observer of Life
    
    I visited a neighbour last night who had his 2 nephews staying. The kids would be 12 & 14 years. Boy did they not have one good thing to say about Ardern, her useless government and their handling of Covid. They were on top of a lot of what is going on, including the scaremongering. There is hope for our next generation of voters!!!
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:05am
    - doggone7
      
      Two boys concerned and expressing stuff like that could mean a couple of things.
      
      First, they’ve been in environments when poisonous stuff has been said about Ardern.
      Or their astute analysis shows 12 year olds should have a vote.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:03am
      - Yabster
        
        “poisonous stuff” ffs – aka the truth? get a grip dog
        
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        October 11, 2021 2:15pm
- alloytoo
  
  Sadly her “vision” is very short sighted.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:45am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    She’s lazy, uneducated and emotion driven rather than analytical but worst of all she wants to be everyone’s friend, making her a soft touch for people who should be shown the door. No steel in her spine. Terrible material for a PM.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:46am
- fernglas
  
  Don’t worry, Maggy. You only get that stuff from the Guardian if you read it from NZ. Anywhere else in the world and it doesn’t show up. Get a VPN and spare yourself the pain.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:59am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    I agree, a VPN is a great addition, but Telegram would actually give you more access to information.
    I am sure you read 1800 flights from one airline in USA were cancelled, the MSM blamed weather and air traffic control in the US.
    https://www.tiktok.com/@monkadunkcreations/video/7016846949441637638?is_copy_url=1&is_from_webapp=v1
    Southwest Airlines has canceled more than 1,800 flights this weekend. It is rumored that Southwest is experiencing staff shortages due to individuals not showing up.
    
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    October 11, 2021 2:00pm
- RockyJ
  
  I have spent 30 years helping develop leaders in commercial organisations. Jacinda Ardern impresses me as the archetype of one of the most destructive leadership styles.
  Given that leadership can be defined as the impact a person has on the motivation of others she is very good at having a positive short term impact. She is visionary, charismatic, empathetic, engaging, charming.
  Over the longer term people get to know the real person. This is where Jacinda is so dangerous. In addition to those characteristics listed above and which serve her in short term impression management she is also manipulative, cowardly, lacking in honesty, rigid in her thinking and probably brittle.
  People like her find it easy to get jobs but after about two years they become loathed by their followers. They leave and go on to the next victim employer. They leave behind teams pitted against each other, talent flight, and deep distrust of the employer.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:34am
  - bronny1
    
    Yes! I was once asked my opinion about a potential staff member who i had worked with extensively in a prior role. I said don’t touch her, she is very very shiny but won’t deliver. Now i think about it, she was just like Jacinda.
    Three months after they employed her (best interview ever apparently) my mate phoned to say what a bad bad mistake he had made…
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:23am
  - Tauhei Notts
    
    RockyJ, an uptick is inadequate appreciation for that perceptive viewpoint you have written.
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:41am
  - bythesea
    
    MTTR – mean time to rumble.
    About 18 months to 2 years.
    Perhaps it was coming to fruition just before Covid hit
    
    personally i cannot understand how Ms Ardern has held on so long. how do “adults” cope with the patronising language…
    
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    October 11, 2021 12:03pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    “Brittle” You have not seen her in action (my neighbour has) just a full handful off camera.
    Brittle is kind
    
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    October 11, 2021 5:16pm
- cas
  
  She did nothing on White Island except a few hugs.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:08am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    She took the cameras to Whakatane
    
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    October 11, 2021 5:18pm
kowtow

Only a short while ago “progressives” and the Media pardy were very fond of the line ;

You can judge a society by how it treats its minorities .

The same people are now proclaiming the rights of the majority and minorities are all too dispensible.
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October 11, 2021 8:32am
- Ed Snack
  
  What they meant related to the treatment of minorities they liked, not minorities in general. Because some minorities are just deplorable, or even actually guilty of any crime you wish to accuse them of, and therefore should never be defended.
  
  Very specific support, for the victims groups “du jour” only.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:38am
lifesgood

I agree 70and still. My grandchildren have learnt far more through 7 weeks of home schooling than they did in half a year at school. We don’t waste time on learning Maori stick games etc and just get on with the basics which seem to be overlooked at school. I know a few school teachers, they are terrified of returning to school although I suspect doing a couple of zoom sessions a day from the comfort of your lounge and still earning a full salary must have a lot to do with it.
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October 11, 2021 8:39am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

Fantastic to see the rules for entry into the ‘Auckland Grammar Zone’ wont be changed,
We were among the thousands who wrote to the MoE opposing any changes to its priority.
The decision probably means at least another mill or more for us overnight 😀

I know we all whinge about this government….but honestly, they have done some good things.
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October 11, 2021 8:40am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  How does the Grammar zone affect your value in Otahuhu?
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:43am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Mikey, that gets a “must try harder” sticker. You should know better by now to try to match wits with our Maggiepie !
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:40am
- artemisia
  
  Maggie, this government has been seriously good for property owners. Also for their accountants who do their utmost to stay ahead of the never ending changes while remaining shall we say ‘creative’.
  
  Thanks Jacinda.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:48am
- Frank the tank
  
  You’re not worried about all those gentrified public servants who will be able to afford the zone in the next few years?
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:48am
- Ruahine
  
  Maggie.
  It is always good to have friends in high places.
  I believe the lovely Jacinda and her daughter live in the Grammar Zone when not in Wellington.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:55am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I get you are trying to be funny but the zoning system is one of the worst public policies in New Zealand – and there are dozens to choose from. The policy uses the ability to buy expensive real estate as a rationing mechanism to access high quality education for children. Which is utterly messed up.
  
  This is the vision of the Ministry of Education:
  
  “We shape an education system that delivers equitable and excellent outcomes.”
  
  “He mea tārai e mātou te mātauranga kia rangatira ai, kia mana taurite ai ōna huanga.”
  
  Hey! Fools. The zoning system is the exact OPPOSITE of that. It just makes Maggie more wealthy.
  
  Seriously these guys need to be burned to the ground. Start again.
  
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  October 11, 2021 8:59am
  - PhilBest
    
    I know astute parents who worked out long ago that it is now cheaper to buy a cheap home in a low decile area, and pay for private school fees for the kids, than it is to pay for a house in the zone of a good public school.
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:16am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      yes agree
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:29am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Doesn’t sound all that astute to me Phil.
      There wouldn’t be anyone we know living in Remuera, who didn’t send their kids to little Kings or St Cuths anyway.
      
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      October 11, 2021 9:41am
      - graham
        
        St Cuths is so snobby. Years ago my wife called them to say we had found a school blazer and did they have anyone living near us who might be able to collect it … when they found out we lived in South Auckland, the office lady said snootily, “Ohh, none of our girls would live down THERE.”
        
        Blimmin’ glad we sent our daughter to Dio instead. 🙂 Even Corran would have been better.
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:38am
    - amospicton
      
      It’s logical other than for the fact that the capital gain from being ‘in zone’ trumps the perceived saving.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:37am
  - Sacha
    
    The government is moving us along at a good rate.
    NZ will be starting again in some decade in the future, with its Maori population leading the charge.
    That’ll be The Day!
    
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    October 11, 2021 9:41am
  - Ed Snack
    
    However it isn’t quite as open and shut as that. In theory there’s nothing stopping any school being as good as AGS as a school, except the intentions and abilities of its headmaster and staff.
    
    And there are other schools, even some in the public system, that appear to achieve as much as AGS without the fanfare. Not many, but some.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:46am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    “We shape an education system that delivers equitable and excellent outcomes.”
    
    ~~“He mea tārai e mātou te mātauranga kia rangatira ai, kia mana taurite ai ōna huanga.”~~
    
    Now it’s official English.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:53am
  - ecco
    
    It’s the survival of the fittest out there BY. Just attend any Barfoots Auckland auction with houses in the Grammar zone to see the forces at play. Some people, long standing residents ,and some newly emigrated people to NZ place great significance on the double Grammar zone and will pay up big time. The other option is to buy in a cheaper zone and then send your kids private. The effect on property prices in certain school zones is directly tied to recent immigration settings.
    
    Will be interesting to see what Ardern does about these settings going down the track. Most immigrants appear to want to live in Auckland.
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:15am
- Bob
  
  only one good thing it would appear; but we still haven’t seen the proposed education changes from Hipkins yet.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:33am
westernScientest

counting down the days until cindy tries to out fascism dan:

https://twitter.com/BernieSpofforth/status/1444060208070864897
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October 11, 2021 8:55am
- westernScientest
  
  Although Greater Wellington councils are going to give her a run for the Feelz:
  
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/126637000/greater-wellington-councils-consider-mandatory-vaccination-for-council-staff
  
  Local body officials wanting mandatory vax:
  
  Porirua Mayor Anita Baker
  Porirua City Council chief executive Wendy Walker
  Upper Hutt Mayor Wayne Guppy
  Wellington City Council mayor Andy Foster
  Hutt City Council chief executive Jo Miller
  council people and capability manager Vanessa Jenkins
  Hamilton mayor Paula Southgate
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:31am
  - Inandout
    
    wS, the turnover of staff in most councils is tremendous so that will be interesting if staff leave for being unvaxxed. The engineering side of local councils are desperate for staff.
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:18am
Yabster

From Hobsons choice: He Pua Pua in action…

ater ‘partnership’ added to law
You may have missed it but the Water Services Act that became law a week ago quietly added to legislation water “partnership” while establishing a framework “to provide transparency about the performance of drinking water, wastewater, and stormwater networks and network operators”.

Water “partnership” was legalised by a “Te Mana o te Wai” clause, that functions like a Treaty clause in other legislation, to enable the “Treaty partner” to demand rights, resources, money, or power.

The clause, in Subpart 3, 14 (2), says that “when exercising or performing a function, power, or duty under this Act, a person must give effect to Te Mana o te Wai, to the extent that Te Mana o te Wai applies to the function, power, or duty”. See Water Services Act

This follows the Water Services Regulator Act 2020 which also grants recognition of “Te Mana o te Wai” with respect to fresh water.

According to advice sought by Environment Minister David Parker, Te Mana o te Wai “requires us to give effect to two sets of values”.

“The first set of values that New Zealanders that are relatively familiar with: good governance, stewardship, and care and respect for water,” the advice says.

“The second set of values, which are Maori values, being:

Mana whakahaere, which is generally around the way that iwi and hapu wish to govern the use of land, the use of water.
Kaitiakitanga, or unique practices around the care and protection of taonga, including water, and
Manaakitanga, or cultural philosophy around sharing, equity, reciprocity.
“It’s only by properly engaging iwi and hapu, at the catchment scale, that you can really interpret and express those values,” said the woman in the You Tube clip. See Te Mana o te Wai

That brief “Te Mana o te Wai” clause enables “mana whenua” Maori in each catchment to assert rights to governance, management, and ownership of water in the area.

“Mana whenua” Maori are those whose Treaty settlements have given them special “mana whenua” status to an area that puts them apart from others with Maori ancestry living there.

We think that water partnership is absurd because there was no evidence that the Treaty of Waitangi created a “partnership” between Maori and the Crown until activists in the 1980s started talking it into existence.

Moreover, water partnership looks like implementation of part of He Puapua, a plan for a radical revision of our government into two racially divided spheres, one by Maori for Maori and the other, a fully bi-cultural set-up for everyone else.

Page 66 of the plan says 2025 is the deadline for “Maori” to be awarded title to fresh water.

We have collected more than 18,500 signatures on a petition against the He Puapua plan.
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October 11, 2021 8:56am
emmess

Biden’s approval is now almost 10% underwater according to the RCP average
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

That is about where Trump’s approval sat for the majority of his presidency.
But given the fawning MSM coverage that is now wearing off, biased polling and the fact that he is falling fast, I think he is going much lower.
Possibly -20% by Xmas, more than -30% by the mid-term elections next year
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October 11, 2021 9:03am
- Inandout
  
  emm, if our media were not so fawning of Jacinda her ratings would be much lower also.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:20am
- Ed Snack
  
  That’s in a Democrat + 15 or so poll as well. Likely approval rating is near his rock bottom of about 20-25% from those Democrats who would vote for Satan if he wore a D label.
  
  Let’s Go Brandon !
  
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  October 11, 2021 11:50am
RockyJ

On a lighter note I am interested in Kiwibloggers views on the colour Grey. The Herald ran a long promo on grey’s virtues as the new age colour of sophistication.
Personally I hate grey and don’t have a square millimeter of the stuff near my house.
I drive past the brand new suburbs built out of chilly bin and find the monotonous vistas of grey emotionally draining. To me grey is the colour people use when they can’t decide on a colour. https://www.oneroof.co.nz/news/40275
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October 11, 2021 9:06am
- kevn
  
  @Rocky… I don’t like grey but gray is ok so long as there is colour on the trims. A coloured door looks good as well.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:49am
- James Stephenson
  
  Definitely the best colour car to get, if you don’t like having to wash it too often.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:45am
  - kevn
    
    @James…. Only prob is same colour as the road surface = camouflage blend in colour.
    
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    October 11, 2021 5:25pm
- Gravelroad
  
  @RockyJ-
  Ever heard of 50 Shades of Grey?
  It’s a book.
  Have a read of it.
  Might change your mind about grey – especially the “emotionally draining” aspect.
  
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  October 11, 2021 11:00am
  - RockyJ
    
    Thanks Gravelroad. Good point. Maybe I am being a bit black and white about grey.
    Maybe I should take aim at beige. Is there a 50 Shades of Beige book?
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:10am
    - Gravelroad
      
      @RockyJ-
      Apparently Marilyn Monroe’s favourite colour was beige.
      So there could well be a 50 Shades of Beige edition.
      Or you could research and produce one yourself…….
      
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      October 11, 2021 5:03pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Just don’t get to tied up in that book…
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:50am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  It’s so 1990s….as Karitane yellow was so 1980s
  
  I’m noticing more black exteriors nowadays.
  
  (confession – our house is light grey with white trim….
  carpet is grey…hall and living room is white-grey…
  but decor/asthetics aren’t my department…hubby’s in charge of the paint-brush and colour wheel)
  
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  October 11, 2021 11:22am
  - RockyJ
    
    Wow. You let your husband decide on your colour scheme? Brave. How is the relationship? There’s a book that might help. It’s called “50 Shades of Grey”….
    
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    October 11, 2021 11:36am
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      How is the relationship? There’s a book that might help.
      
      After 50 years with the chap, I don’t think I’ve the stamina to read anything involving another 50…
      
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      October 11, 2021 5:49pm
- Ehlana
  
  Has gray actually become popular among people choosing colours for their own homes? Or it is being dictated as fashionable by those who will make money out of selling it to people who follow fashion? Or demanded by Councils obsessed with so called “natural palettes”?
  
  In other countries, brightly coloured houses are the norm and I think they look much nicer. Contrast this: https://www.housebeautiful.com/uk/lifestyle/property/a31204285/coloured-houses-boost-value/
  with Stonefields in Auckland: http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/7861426/Auckland-housing-crisis-too-big
  
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  October 11, 2021 12:50pm
  - RockyJ
    
    That’s exactly what I mean. Thanks Ehlana
    
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    October 11, 2021 2:32pm
Ruahine

Reading Cactus Kates latest piece on the PMs upcoming wedding. Her blogs are always so prescient.
Just think if we had proper journalism in this country instead of the gov’ts paid lackeys.

https://asianinvasion2019.blogspot.com/
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October 11, 2021 9:06am
Maggie Pie

NEWSTALK ZB @ 9:11am

“Let’s hope the police can finally bring that ‘HUCKERY MOLL’ who toured Northland to book”

– Kerry Woodham

😀 😀 😀
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October 11, 2021 9:26am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie: They have one of the “huckery molls” in MIQ now (the other is still in hiding, although I know for a fact that police can now trace cellphone calls not just to a suburb or a street, but to a house. I suspect she’s hiding on some other marae somewhere, and Coster won’t let the cops go and get her lest they upset the bros).
  
  Whether she will every be “brought to book” is another matter entirely.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:44am
  - oldfella
    
    DG, at least Cindy ‘clarified’ on TV3 this morning that the two ‘molls’ may not be sex workers after all. Just social workers who mistakenly filled in the wrong application forms and then took a wrong turning while driving north. /s
    
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    October 11, 2021 12:08pm
- Fletch
  
  I’m still on the lookout for the covid-positive randoms who will mysteriously turn up in unvaccinated towns and cities, forcing the locals into testing and jabs. What’s the bet that the South Island will soon be next on the list, at least before the vaccine expires next month.
  
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  October 11, 2021 12:18pm
Ruahine

A question that has been on my mind for a while.
How is it that prostitutes do not seem to get Covid.
Keep all the replies short.
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October 11, 2021 9:39am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Anal.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:43am
- CJames
  
  Probably because she is a heavy smoker. The data indicates nicotine reduces infection.
  
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  October 11, 2021 9:46am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Hard working prostitutes are barely going to notice a runny nose (AKA ‘full’)
  
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  October 11, 2021 3:45pm
Surely Knott

“Leading epidemiologists ……. saying some people should ‘want’ to get it if they’re fully-vaccinated.”

‘You might want to get it, you definitely want to get it,’ Professor Peter Collignon told the Courier Mail.

Experts are saying that everyone will likely be infected with Covid at some stage, and recent studies show a combination of the vaccine and infection could lead to the best protection.

”You definitely want to be vaccinated before you get it, because if you’re vaccinated your risk of death goes down.”

”It’s immunity you want supported by the vaccine but then sort of topped up, by circulation and that’s really is what’s going to ultimately lead to make this turn this virus into basically an endemic, common cold causing virus, and that’s what you want it to be,’ University of Newcastle Professor Nathan Bartlett said.’

Wow this is all very unusual. I’ve never heard of a vaccine where the second step is you need to go out and get the disease to get immunity. And anecdotal accounts of people getting covid after vax is that they were very sick. So these epidemiologists are saying the vaccine won’t provide herd immunity you have to circulate the disease to cause the disease to mutate and become more like a common cold.

So what is the rationale for the extreme human rights breaches for the unvaccinated : no jab, no job. That communal responsibility argument only worked when it was believed this vaccine stopped spread and provided immunity. It doesn’t. They are suggesting you get immunity and lessen the potency of the virus from catching the actual disease itself. .

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10077053/Why-vaccinated-Australians-shouldnt-freak-catch-Covid-GOOD-them.html
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October 11, 2021 9:40am
- MCos
  
  There go those scientific anecdotal accounts again.
  
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  October 11, 2021 1:50pm
Maggie Pie

This just popped up….immediately made me think of ‘milkey’
LOL!!

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1447290843132579841
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October 11, 2021 9:54am
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, like some humans we know, dogs can be all piss and wind. Our Foxie barks and snarls like crazy at the bitsa on the other side of the fence but when they meet on walks she meekly walks on by.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:25am
- David Garrett
  
  Maggie: Ah yes, Milky…the anonymous Wellington keyboard warrior who moans to the headmaster if we don’t use his ridiculous lengthy handle when referring to him.
  
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  October 11, 2021 10:47am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Wellington??
    Didn’t actually realise that DG.
    Always comes across as a resident of Mt Roskill 😀
    
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    October 11, 2021 10:55am
    - David Garrett
      
      Mags: No…as best I can tell he’s a Wellington bureaucrat…I am picking he lives in Thorndon or Wadestown…Newtown would be a bit too close to the working class people he claims to empathize with…bit like Professor Sir Geoffrey who lives in Roseneath, overlooking Oriental Bay I think.
      
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      October 11, 2021 10:57am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Grief no…those folks wouldn’t be commenting on KB…
        
        I’m sure he’s from the Hutt Valley or Tawa.
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:15am
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        I would have picked Taita as Milky’s suburb.
        
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        October 11, 2021 11:31am
      - Inandout
        
        DG, the Sir you refer to also has a weekend escape property in rural Horowhenua.
        
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        October 11, 2021 4:31pm
Ruawai

Why have the police not released photos of the women that went through the Northland border who they are looking for so the public can help, surely this is more important than a missing person or criminal at large.
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October 11, 2021 9:59am
Liberal Cliche

Seen a few aussie “police at your doorstep for hurty words on the internet” videos but this one beats thems all, this is pure Bolshevik tier ..

https://twitter.com/libsoftiktok/status/1447240304084594688
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October 11, 2021 9:59am
- Maggie Pie
  
  Well butter my butt and call me a muffin…..
  That cop doing the interrogation looks like Cindy’s twin sister!!!
  
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  October 11, 2021 2:08pm
dime

Don Brash appears to have gone full retard.

Never go full retard Don.

“Brash, who works as the treasurer of an initiative started by the Mongrel Mob”

jesus.

Do you know the hard time Dime would have to fall on before taking a job like that? and im a piece of shit lol whats he thinking?
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October 11, 2021 10:33am
RW Capitalist

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president-biden-job-approval-7320.html

OOHH dear…told ya so…buyers remorse?

Behind Trump now.
and
That’s WITH the MSM help.
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October 11, 2021 11:01am
Maggie Pie

Naturally enough, I was required to be fully vaxxed early in the piece.

However, this article from the ‘NY Times’ still seems a bit of a worry….

https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1447225436879085575
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October 11, 2021 11:02am
NoFax

Pharmac buys Molonupiravir – https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/sarah-fitt-pharmac-announces-agreement-to-buy-covid-19-antiviral-oral-drug-molnupiravir/

Interesting interview as it appears that Pharmac and the MoH don’t talk to each other. Last week MoH said it had no plans to buy it. Is this becuase that’s Pharmac’s job? Or did the MoH think it was up to them but didn’t know what to do?

However, Pharmac wasn’t involved in buying the vaccine – the agency that normally buys drugs. Maybe if they were the agency that did it we would have had delivery much earlier.
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October 11, 2021 11:18am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Quick fix at $NZ 1011/course 17 tablets.
  Believed to be created for the present market.
  
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  October 11, 2021 2:58pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  But reports from trials in India say it’s not effective for moderate covid. Is this going to be another instance of Big Pharma profit needs overriding trial data?
  
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  October 11, 2021 3:49pm
ABS4EVA

Tough Competition they can’t win the Bledislo Cup

but when it comes to RABID Anti Christian
ANTI CATHOLIC BIGOTRY

Australia has finally beaten the
IRISH HATING CATHOLIC HATING

Sheep Lovers of NZ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UZy9hjzz6k

It was a True Blue Dog Poo

PILE ON
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October 11, 2021 11:32am
bythesea

Interesting science paper came out (finally!) about how exhaled covid particle load varies between general individuals with covid and to find out who might be superspreaders.

TLDR;
20% of people produce 80% of the particles
For the highest decile, they could be 100-1000x higher load than most people.
Old and Obese is major factor.

https://www.pnas.org/content/118/8/e2021830118

So if you were an at risk group you would want to avoid old obese people getting covid in poorly ventilated indoor areas like…

… rest homes
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October 11, 2021 12:12pm
Fletch

I’m sure this must have been posted before, but if you haven’t seen it, 8 prominent doctors and scientists in a panel discussing the virus and vaccine.
Panelists include Dr. Pierre Kory, Dr. Ryan Cole, Dr. Brian Tyson, Dr. Richard Urso, Dr. Robert Malone, Dr. Heather Gessling, Dr. Brian McDonald and Dr. John Littell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeVy7jQoz0

Includes Dr Robert Malone, who was one of the inventors of mRNA vaccines. One of the things pointed out is that a vaccine that is good against the Alpha strain of the virus is pretty much useless against Delta.
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October 11, 2021 12:29pm
Rusty

Something different to talk about.

Why is our sports media not giving the Hawkes bay rugby team any credit for defending the Ranfurly shield for the entire season?

One radio sports announcer seem to think it was wrong for Tasman not to win on Sunday and I have heard others supporting the challengers rather than the Bay this year.

Hawkes bay are 3rd on the all time list behind Auckland and Canterbury for most defenses of the log which is an amazing achievement
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October 11, 2021 12:37pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Yep, agree with your comments and I’m a Tasman supporter.
  The Hawkes Bay team seem to have a very capable and motivating captain in Ash Dixon. Probably too old for higher honours but I like his style.
  I might have misheard on the TV commentary but I thought it was said that he had “turned his life around” or similar from previous activities.
  Good on him if he has.
  
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  October 11, 2021 7:03pm
Yvette

SHORTLAND STREET
Monday 11 October | 7:00 PM – 7:30 PM | Channel 2
Madonna battles her carnal urges. Gang leader Harry denies Winston’s claims he helped infected woman breach COVID boundary, sparking Northland lockdown. Girl power unites Dawn and Samira.
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October 11, 2021 12:50pm
Don Beckett

There are real concerns in the medical profession about the efficacy and safety of the Pfizer “vaccine”. This piece from an award winning author and a medical professional expresses some of them.

https://nzdsos.com/2021/09/19/an-open-letter-to-the-government-from-an-award-winning-new-zealander/

This website has a lot of truthful medical information that is either being discarded by the government or deliberately covered up.
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October 11, 2021 12:55pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It reads like a bunch of rubbish to me.
  
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  October 11, 2021 1:26pm
  - Fletch
    
    In what respect? Seems very straightforward and factual.
    
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    October 11, 2021 2:02pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I have archived it. It is a most excellent clear case for the application of commonsense not fear.
    My Dr marches to the Medical Council’s drumbeat too. Her attitudes to patients have changed. Despite being based in the South Island she is an employee of a practice now owned by an Auckland company. Has corporatism overtaken doctors independence?
    
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    October 11, 2021 2:51pm
  - kevn
    
    @Bened… Spoken like a fizzer jabbed one.
    Fair enough, no options just now.
    
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    October 11, 2021 4:49pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  Have to agree with Benedict – a rather odd stream of consciousness type post.
  
  I note the author also has some ‘interesting’ views in relation to other vaccinations and fluoridation of water.
  
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  October 11, 2021 1:55pm
  - Don Beckett
    
    Northshoredoc. . These are NZ doctors & other assorted medical professionals. I do not necessarily follow or believe everything they say, but the fact that they are saying this has to be a cause for concern.
    I have seen other medical professionals on other websites in other countries express the same concerns. Where there’s smoke there’s fire. I guess time will sort the wheat from the chaff.
    
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    October 11, 2021 5:41pm
- Fletch
  
  Interesting read. Reading some of the the rest of the site, I wasn’t aware that the govt had hastily changed the law to make the vaccine roll out legal, which it looks like it was not before. They would have been in breach s23 of the Medicines Act.
  
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/covid-19-govt-makes-urgent-law-change-after-high-court-ruling-on-legality-of-vaccine-rollout/
  
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  October 11, 2021 2:01pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Who is going to be held accountable?
    The Attorney General should have been aware.
    
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    October 11, 2021 2:38pm
Yvette

‘Other countries’ have told New Zealand not to use vaccination targets for easing restrictions – Jacinda Ardern [1]

• Which countries?

Friends living in countries already ravaged by Covid-19 helped Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern decide to close New Zealand’s borders. “[They were] saying, ‘Go, just shut down, because here I am in lockdown with thousands of people dying. Just shut down’.” [2]

“We will take into consideration two things; vaccination rates, we already know they are making a difference – they have reduced this outbreak by up to 50 percent, according to some modelling,” Ardern said. [1]

• A Team of Five Million without a goal is surely doomed to fail.
• How do you consider vaccination rates without a goal in mind?
Or is the consideration just mindless?

“Very little of what I have done has been deliberate. It’s intuitive. I think it’s just the nature of an event like this [Chistchurch mosques massacres] There is very little time to sit and think in those terms. You just do what feels right.” [3]

• Oh? … oh, merde!
____________
[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/covid-19-other-countries-have-told-new-zealand-not-to-use-vaccination-targets-for-easing-restrictions-jacinda-ardern.html 4 hours ago
[2] https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-coronavirus-jacinda-ardern-speaks-about-her-bubble-and-the-biggest-decisions-shes-made/MS3XPSG3A72LNVLW4UEP4JSK5A/ 10 Apr, 2020
[3] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/06/jacinda-ardern-intuitive-courage-new-zealand April 6, 2019
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October 11, 2021 1:01pm
Maggie Pie

Seems not a lot of love for Cindy & ClarkE on Twitter at the moment….

One tweet which drew a lot of ‘vile’ replies:
“The PM was definitely very active in making her wedding plans over the last 3 days – hence the taxpayer funded trip to Gisbourne”

I mean come-on. If it was us in that position, we’d do exactly the same thing.
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October 11, 2021 1:23pm
Southern Raider

Once again the 80% of productive kiwis are being let down by the non productive 20%

First dose rates has basically ground to a halt. Cindy is going to have to work miracles to get her core voter base starting to get jabbed or we are never getting out of lockdown
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October 11, 2021 1:46pm
- kowtow
  
  Why buy into the govt /media propaganda machine .
  
  The non vaxxed aren’t holding anyone up .
  
  It’s the fear porn industry that’s doing that .
  
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  October 11, 2021 2:39pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING….

My partner just tried to find the video of Don Brash attempting to ‘walk-the-plank’ onto a boat moored down at Westhaven 😀

(He can’t find it now. Reckons ‘The Don’ would have probably paid big money to have it taken down off YouTube)

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1447354078854623234
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October 11, 2021 1:59pm
- kowtow
  
  He’s walking a very fine line with all his crim /gang hugging .
  
  The term useful idiot comes to mind.
  
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  October 11, 2021 2:36pm
Stu2

ONLY 35 cases

35 would have got us excited a week or three ago
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October 11, 2021 2:30pm
- kowtow
  
  Could that be a function of less testing on Sundays .
  
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  October 11, 2021 4:35pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

We just can not let the Covid natural immunity out of the bag, it would spoil the plan and Jaspinda would lose control. Antibody testing is banned for that reason.
Frowny face, finger pointing and waffle waffle waffle in 3, 2, 1
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October 11, 2021 2:49pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Word leaking out of the Beehive for this afternoons briefing, has Jacinda ready to announce an easing of ‘Level3’ Restrictions for both Auckland & Waikato.
  Visitors to other people’s homes will now be allowed to use the toilet.
  
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  October 11, 2021 3:18pm
  - rangitoto
    
    Only for number 1. An MoH inspector with a clipboard will attend to verify.
    
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    October 11, 2021 3:54pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    She’s decided to once again over ride the law and is going to require a large number of public servants etc to be experimented on.
    Paul Craig Roberts has a say about that:
    https://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2021/10/10/the-vaccine-mandate-is-a-hoax/
    
    He reminds us the Nuremberg Convention is law in NZ and MP’s might be subject to having a Court over rule them.
    
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    October 11, 2021 6:20pm
  - kevn
    
    @Maggie… No-one is thinking of the lemon trees.
    
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    October 11, 2021 6:36pm
JibberJabber

Jeepers, imagine if we had a Politician as corrupt as this in New Zealand…? ?
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/10/9/austrias-sebastian-kurz-announces-he-is-stepping-down-as-chancel

On Wednesday prosecutors raided several locations linked to the OeVP and announced that Kurz and nine other individuals were under investigation over claims that government money was used in a corrupt deal to ensure positive media coverage.
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October 11, 2021 3:21pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Kurz was not brazen enough.
  
  He should have simply, and publicly sent money to the media in support of “public interest journalism”.
  
  It’s not the crime, it’s the cover up.
  
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  October 11, 2021 4:08pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  He should have taken lessons from NZ. Go hard and fast, buy your mouthpiece
  
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  October 11, 2021 4:15pm
Maggie Pie

This ‘lockdown’ is really getting to my partner.
He’s started watching some violent sub-titled Jap crap on Netflix….’Squid Game’
Not for me. I walked out after the first 5 minutes.
Funnily enough, that’s what we used to call them when I was at Boarding School.
Just saying.
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October 11, 2021 3:47pm
- fernglas
  
  He probably thought it was a British programme about making oddles of dosh selling used cars, called “The Quid Game”
  
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  October 11, 2021 7:15pm
graham

And in a move that surprises absolutely nobody …

… the Maori Party wants the Government to move Auckland into level 4 and the rest of the North Island into Level 3 immediately until Maori are 95 per cent vaccinated.

How long do they think that might take? 3 months? 6 months? A year?

… sigh …
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October 11, 2021 3:49pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Announce the whole country is moving to level 1 permanently on 1 December and see how the Maori vax rates go then!
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:57pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Lots of activity at Whenuapai today. 757s mostly. Is someone sneaking into the Country? No names, but we do know someone will be here from overseas soon
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October 11, 2021 3:59pm
- Inandout
  
  SO, is the Green thing coming home with his entourage?
  
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  October 11, 2021 4:34pm
- kevn
  
  @Steve O… You can bet it won’t be plane load of sorely needed medical staff/nurses.
  Prob those climate change conference attendees/turkeys.
  
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  October 11, 2021 4:52pm
- JibberJabber
  
  I think the airforce has only got 2 757s and I believe one of them has been only just returned to service after a lengthy period of being repaired.
  They only bought these white elephants because Helen Clark wanted to swan about the Planet without having to slum it with the peasants on commercial flights.
  
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  October 11, 2021 5:27pm
- cmm
  
  flightradar24.com is your friend. The phone app will even id a plane in the sky.
  
  Cindy1 is there now
  https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/nz7571
  
  It flies this weird loop every couple of AKL-Palmy-CHC-AKL loop every few days: https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/nz7571#297616af
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:27pm
  - kevn
    
    @cmm… If we knew why, we wouldn’t be happy. You can bet on that.
    
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    October 11, 2021 6:35pm
NZisleadbyaCommunist

The covid update for today….
“Today Cabinet has agreed… To put in place the ideas National suggested 2 weeks ago” ?
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October 11, 2021 4:07pm
Fletch

So the govt is going to make vaccination mandatory for all health care workers and all teachers. Hipkins was asked, what about those don’t want it? He said they will no longer be able to work in those roles.

They keep on going on about vaccination, vaccination, vaccination as though it is a definite fix. Here’s me screaming at the TV “BUT IT DOESN’T WORK!” We all know it doesn’t work. And yet they keep going on about it as though it is the only thing that will bring us back to normal. It’s an alpha tool for a delta disease. Vaccination is not going to get us out of this.
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October 11, 2021 4:21pm
- Cinematic
  
  They’ll no longer be able to work in those roles. In Labour speak that means we will give them another role. So they’ll move from the front line to licking stamps or suchlike on the same taxpayer money.
  
  Not only is this government easily the most incompetent in NZ’s history it’s easily the most gutless. They got scared into promising a billion dollar harbour crossing by an uptight bunch of cyclists for goodness sake.
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:47pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  “BUT IT DOESN’T WORK!”
  
  Yes well that is bullshit. I support mandatory vaccines for teachers and health care workers. For bloody obvious reasons.
  
  And I say this as someone who has devoted hundreds of hours reading the evidence about the vaccines, including their limitations.
  
  Honestly, it is so frustrating. Are you suggesting that the world would be no worse off – today – had the vaccine development failed?
  
  Get a grip – go get vaccinated.
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:58pm
  - Fletch
    
    “The D614G strain that the Pfizer vaccine was created to combat isn’t even circulating anymore. We’re about 4 or 5 variants on from that. Delta is behaving as a new virus. The antibodies don’t neutralize it anymore, especially the N Terminal domain of the spike. It’s the wrong protein now. It’s not even a virus that’s here.”
    
    – Dr Ryan Cole, Mayo Clinic-trained, board-certified, anatomic pathologist, clinical pathologist, dermato-pathologist
    
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    October 11, 2021 7:43pm
  - kris
    
    DHB vax rates (published by stuff a week or two back I think) showed something like 5-25% of DHB stuff don’t have the jab, and I think its safe to assume that by this stage that they actively don’t want it (as opposed to being lazy).
    We already have chronic staffing shortages in hospitals, and this mandate is likely to result in a loss of at least another 5% of staff – that seems an extremely stupid move if you covid case numbers are expected to increase.
    
    It’s also very clear that jab mandates are nothing to do with patient safety. If patient safety was a concern, the appropriate action is for every staff number to have a rapid, non-invasive test at the start of every shift. All having a jabbed workforce achieves is making infection among staff harder to detect, as those jabbed are more likely to be asymptomatic, and thus show up for work, vs the unjabbed who might have “cold or flu like symptoms” and thus stay home/get tested.
    
    If you were in hospital, would you rather be treated by someone who had a negative test at the start of their shift, or someone who was jabbed (now several months ago)?
    
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    October 11, 2021 7:52pm
  - info@cruzpro.com
    
    BY,
    
    I support everyone’s rights to say what happens to their bodies. We know that you support the idea of Covid19 vaccinations. New Zealand and Internatonal law protect people from forced medical procedures. Your continued arguments for getting vaccinated is getting tiresome. Why don’t you give it a F%@#$ING rest!
    
    The more you harp on about this the less I think of you. Have you ever considered that you might actually be wrong? Think about the huge amount of damage you might personally be doing.
    
    If there was even a 0.00001 % chance that the Covid19 vaccine could wipe out a huge number of humans from the face of earth then it would be worrying.
    
    You don’t actually know – no one does.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:13pm
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    How about…
    
    No.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:20pm
  - Cinematic
    
    Fancy being fired from a job you’re good at for not having a flu vaccine? I know these are hysterical times BY but something ain’t right about that.
    
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    October 11, 2021 8:22pm
- plc
  
  Looking forward to the NZEI and PPTA “Day of Action” to support their members’ freedom of choice.
  
  Imagine the Union response if National mandated that?
  
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  October 11, 2021 7:05pm
plc

If the NZ Government is happy to say “No jab, no job” for certain professions/vocations then why won’t they say “No jab, no benefit”?
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October 11, 2021 4:22pm
- dcrane
  
  Agreed, but the last thing we want to do is act like it’s OK as long as they do. No mandates should be the rule.
  
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  October 11, 2021 7:20pm
kowtow

She was very fidgetty again .

ps How is it she can pronounce the ‘t’ in the last syllable of Waikato but not in ;

ability
responsibility

etc
16 2
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October 11, 2021 4:38pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  So many questions. How is it that you can’t spell fidgety?
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:43pm
westernScientest

Health and Education, including private businesses now have vax mandates. It will keep creeping until it is everyone by early 2022. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
10 2
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October 11, 2021 4:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

It’s just a mask. Old, but here in NZ now. Labour are playing NZ to control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXUtsft0Z74
7 4
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October 11, 2021 4:40pm
- dcrane
  
  That is way too real. Missed it before.
  
  2 0
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  October 11, 2021 7:18pm
westernScientest

LOL some reporter just said to Cindy that she is committing genocide for not putting Auckland back to L4 and everyone to L3….

Seriously, im not kidding, its about 45min into the live-stream
17 1
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October 11, 2021 4:49pm
Cinematic

So Auckland dies a little bit more for another week to prevent our hospital system from overloading.

The can is dented as f**k from the kicking it’s taken down the road over the last 19 months.
14 1
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October 11, 2021 4:51pm
ecco

What a crock that 4pm announcement was. Ardern hasn’t really done anything for the long suffering Aucklanders. The region is still in one of the harshest lockdowns in the world. She’s never going to have the guts to open up.

There was absolutely nothing for businesses about to go bust. She could have at least announced some financial aid for them. There is no way a retail shop can survive being closed for 8 weeks. There was no path out, time frames or anything like that. Just announcing mandatory vaccines for teacher and health workers. But not till next year for the teachers. There will probably be so many exceptions it won’t mean a thing. It’s all just lip service.

As people have said, this is an absolute nightmare with this woman in charge. The marginal groups of her voters are in total control of what she does. She moves at a glacial speed with anything she decides to do. I could hardly listen to her babble on just then without gagging in disgust.
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October 11, 2021 5:08pm
- kevn
  
  @ecco… ‘She’ has to consult the polls to see which way to turn.
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:31pm
- Cinematic
  
  Cowardly was my first thought when I saw the non-announcement.
  
  The mandatory vaccination requirement will apply to everyone except for those who don’t want it.
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:43pm
- Inthe09
  
  No plan, no dates, no clue.
  
  Tune in next Monday.
  
  Mate in his 20s messaged me this afternoon – flight booked to London next Friday with Emirates, $1015 including taxes. Hasn’t worked for 8 weeks and not likely to anytime soon. Who could blame him. If you can’t get out and live life in your 20s what the hell are we all doing?
  
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  October 11, 2021 7:10pm
- dcrane
  
  If this Herald opinion piece is any indication, those aligned with Ardern’s philosophy have no intention of opening up Auckland or the country anytime soon.
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-why-we-must-not-allow-virus-to-become-endemic-in-new-zealand-experts/PEGPZ6RZOLUP36U34JA24BL32M/
  
  2 0
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  October 11, 2021 7:13pm
- MCos
  
  “this is an absolute nightmare with this woman in charge”
  
  What’s your plan?
  
  0 0
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  October 11, 2021 9:54pm
Maggie Pie

I see there’s a headline on Stuffed….

‘Beast of Blenheim’ dies.

Read the story. First thought – who the f—- cares?
Looking at the list of the filthy animals sex crimes, I would have had him put down years ago.

SHEEEESH!!
10 10
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October 11, 2021 5:29pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Goodness me.
  The fact someone would log-in to ‘downtick’ that says a lot about them and where his own heads at.
  Scum!
  
  9 11
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  October 11, 2021 5:41pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I was just wondering for which club you would have put him down. Not your Otahuhu tennis club, I assume.
    
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    October 11, 2021 6:28pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Eight now. The guy was locked up for decades for his crimes. Stop celebrating death. And your house price inflation.
    
    7 8
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    October 11, 2021 7:01pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Cuts both ways Bene 🙁
      Stop celebrating LIFE for filthy Pedos…. and someone who forces his wife to have sex with a dog!
      
      And take it you’re not in ‘Auckland Glammar Zone’ then?
      
      7 11
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      October 11, 2021 7:08pm
cmm

Corrections nurse who hooked up with a former prisoner being suspended for 9 months.

9 months?? Is the universe winking at us again?

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126644552/former-prison-nurse-suspended-ordered-to-pay-12000-over-prisoner-relationship
7 1
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October 11, 2021 6:20pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Oh for the good old days, when prison staff would just rape inmates, huh? Now they have to have ‘relationships’.
  
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  October 11, 2021 6:46pm
JFAP

I see the “Hope New Zealand” video has been “disappeared” from Youtube.
2 0
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October 11, 2021 6:55pm
Inthe09

Does anyone in Wellington actually have any clue what is going on in Auckland right now?

I hope the rest of NZ has deep pockets because there are going to be a lot of extra mouths to feed.
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October 11, 2021 6:59pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Wow..
Youtube has banned “Hope New Zealand”

https://www.bassettbrashandhide.com/post/don-t-hope-new-zealand?postId=194f01aa-eb95-4711-b22a-cfb71af148c4
15 2
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October 11, 2021 7:01pm
- dcrane
  
  Strategic error if any copyrighted sound/images were used….copyright claims are easily used to bring down content.
  
  1 0
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  October 11, 2021 7:11pm
- lifesgood
  
  Absolutely disgusting. I bet one of Jacinda’s weasley little sycophants complained. Free speech is now officially dead.
  
  4 0
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  October 11, 2021 7:46pm
- ABS4EVA
  
  Was it in Breach of their Standards and in competition with jacindie
  
  I think if they change it to
  
  HOPELESS NEW ZEALAND
  and talk about sponsoring the Mob
  
  They will be fine
  
  3 0
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  October 11, 2021 7:51pm
fernglas

The word “genocide” has been emasculated by its use as a description of anything that is seen to disadvantage any particular group of people. So it is with its use by the Maori party. Looking at the vaccination rates in, for example, Kaitaia. There they are lower than in the surrounding rural communities with about 50% having had their first vaccine. Because they are in a decent-sized town, it can’t be argued that they are physically harder to reach. It must be that they are in fact simply more reluctant to be vaccinated. So is that genocide (which is imposed by others) or ethnic suicide? While the Maori party bleats about a lack of resources, the Maori community, like the Government, has had 18 months to prepare. If they have failed to take up that opportunity to encourage their people to be vaccinated, (and it doesn’t need money, just korero) then why is it everybody else’s fault? Older Maori have excellent vaccination rates, so it can’t be racism. Perhaps the Maori Party could explain why so many of their tamariki are refusing to be vaccinated, and make some suggestions about how to fix it, rather than suggesting that they have not been allowed to be.
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October 11, 2021 7:05pm
fernglas

Which is the higher value, an individual’s privacy or preserving public health in time of a pandemic? Gosh, that’s a tough one.
0 0
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October 11, 2021 7:11pm
Fletch

Everyone I know unvaxxed is getting an SMS with the offer of a free taxi to take you to get vaccinated and bring you back. Is getting over the top.

Kia ora

At no cost to you – you and your whānau can now get a taxi ride to and from your COVID-19 vaccination.
2 0
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October 11, 2021 7:33pm
tf78

Maggy, does Bushmere Arms appear to be booked out for Labour weekend?
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October 11, 2021 8:37pm

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