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October 13, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 13 October 2021

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General Debate

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mikenmildagain

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Happy International Day for Natural Disaster Reduction!
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October 13, 2021 8:00am
- krazykiwi
  
  Ardern’s government is a natural disaster, the consequences of which will need reduction for a generation. Or two.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:04am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    In a functioning democracy a Government consults with the citizens and conducts binding referenda with a super majority when it proposes to make major changes to governance particularly changes it did not campaign on and therefore does not have a mandate to implement.
    
    This Government did not campaign on He Puapua Three Waters or Maori Wards to name but three issues.
    
    I say this Government is not democractic. It does not have a mandate to implement any of these changes.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:20am
    - Paulus
      
      This Government can make any changes it wants – 53% of the voters said so in 2020.
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:35am
      - Kiwi Dave
        
        I assume you are being tongue-in-cheek here, but in case some deluded readers agree – and I’ve seen this claim made elsewhere recently – would they and the 53% agree to compulsory euthanasia for those over 75 as a cost-cutting measure, should the government decide it is urgently necessary, even though the Labour Party did not campaign on this policy?
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:47am
      - lastmanstanding
        
        Clearly you dont understand the principles of a constitutional democracy.
        
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        October 13, 2021 1:40pm
    - kowtow
      
      Major law change based on “anecdote”.
      
      Yet this receives scant cover in our bought and paid for Media .
      
      Truly shocking .
      
      ‘ “We are perplexed by the statement as ADLS was not asked to provide input to the policy as implied. The discussions the minister is referring to simply did not happen.”
      
      Earlier this week, Minister Faafoi told the news media his move was based on ‘anecdotal evidence from discussions and correspondence with lawyers’, including ADLS.”
      
      https://adls.org.nz/Story?Action=View&Story_id=427
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:58am
    - MCos
      
      Every three years we have an election to decide who makes the decisions on our behalf.
      If the electorate isn’t happy with those decisions, or should I say if a majority isn’t happy, and just as importantly, thinks someone else will do a better job, there will be a change of government.
      Brexit was triggered by a referendum. There’s something to think about. Did all the promised benefits materialize?
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:39am
      - kowtow
        
        Hilfuckenarious .
        
        Talking of parliamentary democracy and in the same breath slagging off the Brits reclaiming …..parliamentary sovereignty.
        
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        October 13, 2021 11:18am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      It has lost the confidence of the people.
      It has disgraced itself with its general incompetence and the PM cannot command an executive team fit for the purpose.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:31pm
    - Overworked
      
      It was clear she is a Muldoonist from the day she stood up the President of Indonesia’s lunch date to take a petition from kids on the steps of Parliament and shortly thereafter rammed through a law to ban oil and gas exploration in favour of a higher-carbon model for the provision of energy to the country. Though Muldoon would have at least thought through the implications of what he was doing.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:45pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    That’s just krazykiwi. A government’s action, if disastrous, could cause a human disaster.
    A natural disaster is something not produced by humans, such as an earthquake, cyclone or pandemic.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:23am
    - cmm
      
      … and how do you reduce any of those?
      
      Toss more slaves into the mouth of the volcano?
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:56am
      - Biscuit
        
        I was thinking that the other day, cmm…
        
        We’ve tried various strategies in the war against Covid…
        
        What we haven’t yet tried is tossing a few Beehive inhabitants into volcanos…
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:01am
      - alloytoo
        
        Well ancient Celts used to sacrifice kings into bogs….
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:23am
      - UrbanNeocolonialist
        
        Waste of meat. We could perhaps instead adopt Maori tikanga (embracing govt mandated principles of Maori wonderfulness) and set up a hangi on the Beehive lawn.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:50am
    - kowtow
      
      We’re told humans are making bigger cyclones , droughts , causing the seas to rise ; blah blah blah.
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:59am
      - cmm
        
        But if man is making them (dubious claim) then they are man made, not natural disasters.
        
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        October 13, 2021 11:08am
    - Northshoredoc
      
      “A natural disaster is something not produced by humans, such as an earthquake, cyclone or pandemic.”
      
      Not according to Brian I have Jesus on speed dial Tamaki.
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:15am
    - Nigel Kearney
      
      Correct. Labour are an unnatural disaster.
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:21am
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      Communists aren’t human.
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:53am
  - Ra Henare
    
    As an aside.
    Political Parties seem intent on being woke for the young voter. Labour even talking about lowering the voting age(wokism at is craziest)
    
    But who votes for Governments?
    Looking at the 2020 election.
    OLDIES make the difference.
    Over 65s are highly engaged with some 700,000 votes.
    Over 60 boosts that number to about a million.
    
    Youngsters:
    Under 30 saw 500,000 voters
    
    https://elections.nz/democracy-in-nz/historical-events/2020-general-election-and-referendums/voter-turnout-statistics-for-the-2020-general-election/
    
    remember that the population of over 60s will have grown by the 2023 Election!!!
    Numbers under 30 will have shrunk.
    
    Its also know that youngsters change their politics once they grow up and have families and careers.
    ie rabid socialists at Uni, who change to conservatives once the real world has been experience. (except for thos who stay at University as Lecturers, Professors 🙂
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:10am
    - Hometruth
      
      Yes I had a relative that was hard left wing in his early 20s until he purchased his own home with a hefty mortgage . Now he is an Act voter.
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:50am
  - trout
    
    Another disastrous Labour party decision! Every industrialized country in the world is looking to beef up natural gas supplies to back up unreliable renewable energy generation. Natural gas is efficient and has low emissions. We choose to burn Indonesian coal.
    https://businessdesk.co.nz/article/infrastructure/gas-sectors-5-billion-warning-to-govt
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:18am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Woman made disaster
    
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    October 13, 2021 3:53pm
Captain Mainwaring

So when Marokopa Man was missing with his kids we all knew his name because it was emblazoned across the media.
Now that he’s before the court his name is suppressed and we’re not allowed to mention it.
Can someone in the legal fraternity please explain how this makes any sense whatsoever?
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October 13, 2021 8:01am
- graham
  
  Defies understanding. When we were watching the news last night, they did a recap on the hunt for the chap, naming both him and the children and splashing their photos all over the screen. Then at the end, it was “A man has been charged …”
  
  Completely nonsensical.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:05am
- G152
  
  In the 60s we went into the bush possuming.
  Left the Austin Gypsy on the side of the road and it sat there for a month middle of winter while we shot, trapped and poisoned our block.
  Sent the skins off to the Dunedin sales and went onto other work.
  Evidently every-one back then knew people knew what they were doing
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:36am
  - jv
    
    And, when it mattered, common sense prevailed
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:03am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Missing some relevant factors here, compared to going hunting (and presumably being a known hunter by those in your social circle).
    A) Did you take a bunch of very young children with you?
    B) Park the car at a beach?
    C) Fail to tell anyone of you intentions/left unannounced?
    D) Allegedly under family or custody issues, which might lead to concerns over your mental health or the children’s safety?
    
    If this guy was a bushman, like he was suggested he might be, then he needs to know there is more to planning a bush trip than knowing how to make a lean-to, or which leaf is good for wiping your arse. (Bushman’s friend/Rangiora, BTW).
    Sounds like more than one degree of poor judgement.
    
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    October 13, 2021 12:51pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Pukapuka
      
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      October 13, 2021 3:55pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Where, and who is the Mother?
      Media never asked …..
      
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      October 13, 2021 3:57pm
- I remember when
  
  Interesting case.
  Man worried that he will lose of custody of his children decides to go ‘bush’.
  Police and local community decide there may have been foul play.
  Massive search is organised without result.
  Man rides over the horizon with children on a motor cycle.
  Authorities decide to bill him for the cost of the search.
  Will people found guilty of murder get a bill in future for the costs involved in getting the conviction.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:46am
- peterwn
  
  He has not appeared in court yet so his name is pretty well automatically suppressed until his first court appearance. He (or his lawyer) can apply for continued suppression then. The Police cannot decide the merits of name suppression, they have to play safe and leave it to the judge.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:49am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    Under what law is a defendant’s name suppressed until their first court appearance?
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:24am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Once charges are laid name suppression can be requested
  
  The police will often issue photographs for publication when they’re seeking someone and insist on them not being used once the person is charged
  
  Same thing happened in the Epiha cop-killer case: the getaway driver was named and her photo published but that stopped once she was charged
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:58am
- ecco
  
  It’s like the naming and shaming of the white middle class Wanaka escapees, yet allowing privacy for the covid positive gangster molls that went over the border to Northland. Same difference.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:50am
PhilBest

One of the people most worth reading on Covid since the very beginning, is Maurice De Hond.

Here is one of his latest postings:

“How to explain the transmission patterns of Covid-19”

https://www.maurice.nl/2021/10/11/how-to-explain-the-transmission-patterns-of-covid-19/

Google Translate works well for me. Use Chrome browser if it doesn’t work in other browsers.
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October 13, 2021 8:01am
- slightlyrighty
  
  That is, by the authors own admission, a hypothesis.
  
  It’s probably worthy of further investigation but I do question the merits of publishing in an open forum at this stage.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:58am
  - PhilBest
    
    As Charmaine points out below, and I heartily concur with, Maurice de Hond has been “more right about Covid than anyone else, from much earlier than anyone else”, all along. He is definitely worth paying attention to.
    
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    October 13, 2021 2:01pm
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Do goggle censor what you translate, if not it is just around the corner, they will be reading it.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:56am
- Charmaine Hawke
  
  This podcast is from May 2020, it is amazing looking back how much Maurice got right about Covid, well worth a listen to http://adam.curry.com/html/WithAdamCurry-fKWs2gT0t8Lmmdbc20N081fsPbHJNs.html
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:49am
  - PhilBest
    
    Thanks heaps for that, Charmaine, I hadn’t heard that before. I discovered De Hond at around that time myself, because I’d intuitively worked out that something like that had to be happening and I went looking for others explaining it.
    
    Prof. Jose-Luis Jimenez, one of the earliest qualified experts to be right about aerosol spread as opposed to contact, droplets and surfaces, says in this interview in October 2020 that Maurice De Hond was “more right than any of us, earlier than any of us”.
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJSPL9LQCiM
    
    This posting by De Hond in April 2020 can hardly be found fault with even now in October 2021:
    
    https://www.maurice.nl/2020/04/24/this-is-how-the-spread-of-covid-19-generally-takes-place/
    
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    October 13, 2021 1:56pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      That is what an exert looks like – someone who’s predictions actually (mostly) pan out. And not a pink hair in sight.
      
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      October 13, 2021 4:39pm
krazykiwi

There’s a vast amount of Covid-19 related information out there. At times it is a bit overwhelming, and my link library is becoming unwieldy. Occasionally I will stumble on something a bit left-field, and this is one such piece. It’s chock full of statistical analyses [hi there, z-scores 🙂 ], so if that’s not your thing hit the scroll wheel now. @ed snack, @cmm, @benedict et al, fill ya boots!

are leaky vaccines driving delta variant evolution and making it more deadly?

one of the great fears in any vaccination campaign is that the vaccine can wind up becoming the driver [of] viral evolution and making the virus more dangerous. this is a special concern around imperfect (so called “leaky”) vaccines that are non-sterilizing. such vaccines do not stop spread or contagion of the virus. this means the virus will have lots of chances to replicate.

when you combine this with a vaccine that reduces severity of cases and prevents deaths in the vaccinated, it’s a bit of a perfect storm. you get full spread but break the evolutionary gradient towards mildness that viruses tend to follow (and that protects humanity from them).

all a virus wants is to replicate. “make a copy of me and pass it on.” that’s the biological imperative of the selfish gene. excel at it, you win. fail, you disappear. simple as that.

killing or harming the host is maladaptive to viral spread. it’s like burning down your own house with your car in the garage. now you have nowhere to live and no way to get around. that’s not a recipe for reproductive fitness.
[kk: author then shows a bunch of charts drawn from official data]
:::
what we see is not what one would expect from a virus. none of the other variants (pre vaccine) worked like this. none saw CFR rise like this. and no jump from major variant to variant saw a statistically significant rise in deadliness.

this IS however what one would expect if a virus were undergoing vaccine mediated evolution (as mareks disease did in chickens) and selecting for hotter strains because vaccinated people can carry and spread them and not die.

Yesterday @dannz postulated that this could be due to less testing in the UK skewing CFR upwards which I agree is a possibility. There is less testing going on as people there are simply ‘over it’

I also wondered if the increasing CFR could be related to seasonal variations, noting that Delta got going in the UK during their summer, where Alpha hit at the state of autumn.

I hope the explanation is something like this because the alterative – that the non-sterilizing vaccine is responsible for accelerating CFR for both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated – is something we really, really don’t want.
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October 13, 2021 8:02am
- Simon
  
  Delta got going due to the cretin mass vaccinations. Delta was there shortly after alpha but it was a minor variant. Until the vaxxs came along…..
  
  Also the virus will evolve around the mass vaccinations. Watching NZ’s public health officials, political class, and Covid “experts”, modelers, the whole zero covid apparatus its like watching some weird cargo cult.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:20am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Do you have any actual science to explain that? Delta started in India – it as called the “Indian variant”. And at the time India has almost zero vaccinations.
    
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    October 13, 2021 8:54am
    - Simon
      
      https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.22.457114v1.full
      
      https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.08.08.21261768v1.full
      
      Good luck.
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:23am
  - Lance
    
    You forgot to blurt out how 5G transmissions started off the entire Covid 19 infection thing
    
    /sarc/
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:14am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      There is no guarantee that the earlier vaccinations were the identical issue world wide. There seems to be a reasonable indicator that trial batch roll-outs were in use.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:36pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Related, here’s an extract from a Letter To Boris: –
  
  Boris, I’m going to start winding up for now, as I’m going to leave the subject of vaccines, passports etc for the third in my trilogy of letters to you. But I do just want to touch on variants before I go, and perhaps the biggest coincidence yet.
  
  The first three variants emanated from the UK (18/12/20), closely followed by the South African variant (14/01/21), and then the Brazilian variant (15/01/21).
  
  The dates above are when they were officially designated a ‘variant of concern’, but they had shown themselves before those dates, significantly before any clot shot roll-out.
  
  By sheer coincidence, I’m sure, AstraZeneca selected three countries to trial their Covid-19 vaccine. As can be seen in their press release, those countries were the UK, Brazil and South Africa.
  
  The odds of the three variants appearing from 194 countries and AstraZeneca having randomly picked those same three countries to trial their vaccine is 1 in 1,198,144.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:25am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    Wow.
    
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    October 13, 2021 8:55am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    It would appear that we have a leaky vaccine.
    
    Would explain a lot, given people who have been vaccinated, but can still catch and pass on the variant, with milder side effects.
    
    It will make delta almost impossible to eliminate.
    
    Do you think our local “experts” are aware of this possibility.
    
    That thier vaccine may be contributing to the spead of covid, a super spreader.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:27am
    - krazykiwi
      
      I think most of our local “experts” are politically motivated. They and the truth are, for the most part, strangers.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:46pm
  - RichardX
    
    krazykiwi
    The odds of the three variants appearing from 194 countries and AstraZeneca having randomly picked those same three countries to trial their vaccine is 1 in 1,198,144.
    
    Provide evidence that AstraZeneca “randomly picked” or claim to have “randomly picked” those same 3 countries.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:30am
    - krazykiwi
      
      You’re missing the point. They may have written a 10 million line of code program to pick those countries, or they may have had a monkey game. It doesn’t matter.
      
      What does matter is the seemingly impossible coincidence that major variants of concern (VOC’s) originated from the same three countries AstraZeneca chose for their trials.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:38pm
      - RichardX
        
        krazykiwi
        You’re missing the point. They may have written a 10 million line of code program to pick those countries, or they may have had a monkey game. It doesn’t matter.
        
        What does matter is the seemingly impossible coincidence that major variants of concern (VOC’s) originated from the same three countries AstraZeneca chose for their trials.
        
        You have not demonstrated that it is a “seemingly impossible coincidence”, you have only asserted that it is.
        
        Also, a “seemingly impossible coincidence” is evidence of nothing other than a coincidence.
        
        Faulty reasoning based on unproven assertions does not make for a persuasive argument.
        
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        October 13, 2021 12:54pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        I’ll spell it out for you as you seem to have missed the point, again: The countries that AstraZeneca chose to trial their ‘vaccine’ are the same countries which generated VOCs. This is not ‘faulty reasoning’ as you so oddly assert. It is a fact.
        
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        October 13, 2021 1:49pm
      - RichardX
        
        Krazykiwi
        I’ll spell it out for you as you seem to have missed the point, again: The countries that AstraZeneca chose to trial their ‘vaccine’ are the same countries which generated VOCs. This is not ‘faulty reasoning’ as you so oddly assert. It is a fact.
        
        I’ll spell it out for you as you have missed the point again.
        
        I specifically objected to your unproven assertion of a “seemingly impossible coincidence”
        
        Yes it is a fact that “The countries that AstraZeneca chose to trial their ‘vaccine’ are the same countries which generated VOCs”
        
        Nothing else you asserted has been demonstrated.
        
        Fact A viewed in light of unproven unfalsifiable assertion B proves conspiracy C is a commonly used argument and it is fallacious.
        
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        October 13, 2021 2:30pm
      - dannz
        
        Could it be that they picked 3 countries with particularly bad outbreaks for testing. i.e correlation no causation?
        
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        October 13, 2021 2:36pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        RichardX, I simply don’t get how your brain is working here. No matter. That you stated “Yes it is a fact that “The countries that AstraZeneca chose to trial their ‘vaccine’ are the same countries which generated VOCs”” is good enough for me.
        
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        October 13, 2021 4:35pm
      - RichardX
        
        It is a fact from which no conclusions can be drawn or probabilities calculated so your assertion that “The odds of the three variants appearing from 194 countries and AstraZeneca having randomly picked those same three countries to trial their vaccine is 1 in 1,198,144.” has been demonstrated to be meaningless and irrelevant.
        
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        October 13, 2021 4:57pm
      - Harro104
        
        dannz is on the money here: krazykiwi has fallen into a classic causation v correlation trap in search of string for their very long bow.
        
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        October 13, 2021 7:12pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        I don’t think it is necessarily incorrect, but it is supposition all based on incomplete information. If AZ had a free choice of all countries to run trials in (and I suspect that that is far from true, many would be potentially unsuitable for many reasons), and, subsequent to those countries being selected significant virus variants appeared, one to each country selected and in no others, then it is correlation but also quite strong grounds to propose causation that might need additional testing.
        
        The supposition is that if the vaccine testing was not responsible for the appearance of variation, if true then any variants would appear randomly amongst all countries. So then if true that the variants only appeared in exactly the countries where testing took place (and subsequent to the testing), that is reasonable grounds to suggest that the testing caused the variants.
        
        I wouldn’t feel comfortable making too much of this without doing a lot more research on it, but if the facts are as stated by KK (the variants pleaded as stated and the timing works), then it does seem to be supportive of the theory that the current non-sterilising leaky vaccines are driving Covid variation, or at least helping to drive it faster.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:31pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    I wonder what the variant was back in 2014, according to the World Health website these vaccinations have been around for almost a decade to fix a virus that has just appeared.
    http://vigiaccess.org/
    first adverse affect 2014, only one but 2018 29, 2019 83, 2020 2,260, 2021 2,216,993 and counting.
    How could that be?
    The WHO has to be telling fibs.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:05am
    - Greg Ettridge
      
      I hope you are not downticking the WHO database, this has been sold to us as rolled gold truth.
      Hopefully you are downticking, this as my mate described it this morning.
      “Wow! This whole thing feels so premeditated. Planned to within an inch of its life.”
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:25am
      - Ed Snack
        
        It is true that in 2018 at a conference on vaccines there was a talk that discussed the “need” for “something like a China flu” that needed new vaccines urgently so that the relatively newly developed mRNA vaccine technology could be used. Otherwise it was a rather expensively developed concept looking for a problem to solve.
        
        That and the planning in late 2019 for how to deal with a world wide pandemic of a respiratory virus outbreak.
        
        Great for making snide little jokes about, but these things actually happened, and too many coincidences just make me uneasy.
        
        It is almost 100% certain though that Covid is a laboratory escape of a human created SARS lineage virus specially endowed with a Furin Cleavage Site to enhance human infectivity and aimed specifically at binding with the human ACE2 receptor by testing against humanised mice bred with that human receptor expressed. Emails from 2018 discuss research proposals to do precisely this, and although probably enough other information has been deliberately deleted by the Chinese authorities and also by Eco Health and other US funders, what we have makes that conclusion pretty certain. That is despite the fevered attempts by those responsible to keep the “natural origin” canard as a possibility.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:40pm
- westernScientest
  
  It is good that some numbers are being put to this. It has been fully expected though, I am sure plenty of people, knew it was coming. I remember having a conversation with a colleague (geneticist) last year when the UK was releasing its plans. Obviously it was a much bigger discussion, but the gist of it was:
  
  If you were going to design an experiment to get a virus to mutate to become more transmissible, how would you do it:
  Her: lockdowns
  
  What if you wanted to get a particular part of the virus to mutate, how would you do it:
  Her: UK vax plan
  
  It is also worth noting there is an analogue to single site actives herbicides, fungicides, parasiticides etc, which only block a single chemical pathway. Resistance develops very easily when only one little thing needs changing.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:27am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    It wouldn’t be the first time a big international had used New Zealand as a controlled test, to test new products.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:27am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Pfizer has been busted testing their vax on orphans in Poland. A bit like Gates/GAVI were busted for doing likewise on orphans in India.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:39pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        It is becoming more and more as though we are being treated as lab rats. Recall the “accidental” administration of saline in NZ some while ago? There seems to be a pattern of this happening, undermining the claims of good faith “accidents.”
        
        https://gab.com/PNN/posts/107084020894449624
        
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        October 13, 2021 1:00pm
      - PhilBest
        
        My suspicions about vials of saline instead of “vaccine” is that THEY were meant for publicity photographs of politicians and members of the elite “getting their jab”.
        
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        October 13, 2021 2:07pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Pfizer were caught some years ago testing an experimental meningitis drug on unsuspecting children in Nigeria, causing a number of unnecessary deaths and long term injuries by blocking the use of known effective treatments to test their own new drug – which didn’t work.
        
        Thanks to corruption in the Nigerian health authorities they “got away with it”. But their ethics and morals are highly compromised.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:43pm
- freemark
  
  Really good discussion here between Van den Bossche & Malone here around this subject. Both possibly accurately described as pro-vaxxers. A long, quite technical yet understandable discussion on what’s potentially driving the data out of Israel etc. Highly recommended viewing by some real experts. https://youtu.be/qP31cfD3YOY
  
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  October 13, 2021 12:11pm
- dannz
  
  I can understand how a leaky vaccine could slow down the reduction in deadliness due to natural selection. But I’m not sure I can grasp the mechanism for it to actually make the virus deadlier.
  
  I would expect that the deadlier version would still be maladaptive to spread in comparison to the less deadly version.
  
  I expect there would be reduced selection for mild strains, but not increased selection for hotter strains, as the milder strains would be milder still.
  
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  October 13, 2021 2:46pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The wild type virus is still in the human population and undergoing mutation.
    
    Some of these variants may have mutations that manage to bypass our immune systems.
    
    Structural and functional ramifications of antigenic drift in recent SARS-CoV-2 variants
    https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.abh1139
    
    a layman’s version:
    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/how-covid-19-variants-evade-immune-response
    
    The influenza viruses are some years mild and some years very dangerous.
    
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    October 13, 2021 5:01pm
    - dannz
      
      Bypassing our immune system would increase the spread, but not sure how it would increase deadliness.
      
      Bacterial antibiotic immunity is a case in point, resistance is developed over time, but I’m not sure if it increases the seriousness of untreated disease?
      
      The only explanation I can think of is that perhaps random mutations increase the deadliness, and then are not selected out to the same degree they previously would have. Over time this could bring up the average deadliness. Although I can’t imagine it would be by much.
      
      I would still expect that ultimately the less deadly strain would “win” and cause the deadly ones to die out.
      
      I suppose there is a point where no selection advantage is gained, and the deadliness would level out like influenza, with slight seasonal variations.
      
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      October 13, 2021 6:40pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Evolution of viral mutants during an infectious outbreak can be very rapid – there’s millions of replication events occurring within hours and much potential for genetic recombination and reassortment.
        
        https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/plenty-of-evidence-for-recombination-in-sars-cov-2-69156
        
        Evolutionary analysis of the dynamics of viral infectious disease
        https://www.nature.com/articles/nrg2583
        
        Why do RNA viruses recombine?
        https://www.nature.com/articles/nrmicro2614
        
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        October 13, 2021 8:02pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        My understanding is that the primary driver is replication speed between hosts, so mutations that enhance the ability of the virus to infect more hosts are selected for as quite simply they will dominate in population terms.
        
        This is relatively neutral towards lethality, at least in the short term, though if the virus could cause a mass spreading event by killing the host it would at least initially be selected for. However over the medium to longer term, it is generally true that a virus that relatively rapidly kills its host reduces its chance to spread compared to one that is a chronic infection in a surviving host.
        
        So you may get competing selection pressures at times, or rather in the short term more lethal versions may not be initially selected against, but over the medium longer term they will lose to chronic versions that maximise spread. Lethality would only be selected for it at the same time it enhanced spread or general success at replicating, it wouldn’t normally be selected for at all otherwise.
        
        So over time selection is for reduced lethality and greater spread. Quite how that plays out might well vary depending on environmental conditions. In primitive human societies with very limited interactions between groups and small group sizes, I can imagine that highly lethal viruses die out very quickly and so are rarely successful at all. In a “modern” society with high interaction and very large population sizes even a particularly lethal virus (or pathogen generally) might spread with some success for a considerable period, so the tendency to evolve attenuated versions of lower lethality could well reduced. That’s the sort of theory I’ve heard expressed, it it is a bit along the “just so” story type, sounds plausible but a lot is not well known.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:55pm
Maggie's partner

Those Vaxathon Plans in full!
PM Jacinda Ardern has announced plans for a live Vaxathon, with the theme “Let’s Vax a Nation” for this saturday, in the hope of galvanising the reluctant, the hesitant, and the well informed into being mass microchipped before the UN publishes its October country by country comparison on Wednesday next week.
The show will begin with a performance of “Vaxxing all over the world” by local tribute band Status Bro, live from the Beehive, which will be beamed to vaxathon centres across New Zealand.
Other live performances will include a stand up routine from comedy duo JessnTova, a poetry reading by Clark Gayford and a sermon by Rev Brian Tamaki on the evils of self gratification.
Regional events will see town pitted against town in a series of co-vaxxing contests including tug of war, pie throwing and gumboot eating, with the leading points scorer being awarded the Ranfullyvaccinated Shield.
Should the Vaxathon fail to engage the public, it will never be mentioned again, and it was all Chipkins idea anyway.
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October 13, 2021 8:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Appalling. Typical.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:45am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    It is the clearest sign yet that the clowns have no idea how to get themselves out of the mess they have created, and are starting to panic,
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:29am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Don’t forget the hourly exhortations to gang members to get vaccinated led by Harry Tam, Sonny Fatu and Louise Hutchinson. At the end of the Vaxathon, Jacinda will have a patching-up ceremony.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:53am
  - alex Masterley
    
    And she will receive an honoury patch…
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:42am
- RoboRob
  
  All guests and celebs can ignore masking and social distancing. All pleb staff will wear hazmat suits. Will end with a chant of ‘team of 5 million’
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:10am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Team of 4,999,999 I won’t be participating.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:31am
- ecco
  
  Shudder to think how much this charade is costing. But hey it’s only tax payer money. That’s never stopped Ardern and Robertson before.
  
  Would have been more effective to just offer cold, hard cash to their target market to get vaccinated. MONEY TALKS. Would have resonated more with these individuals.
  
  Looking forward to watching an absolute bomb/flip flop with this thing. Also will be interested to see which B listers in the MSM have actually put themselves forward to front this. I know Gower is one of them. I heard him on HDPA Drive show last night, struggling to explain why he was involved and show any authentic enthusiasm for this Ardernesque type stunt. I guess it does fit in her kindigarten/wiggles type branding she pushes.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:57am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Surely there are ethical questions around incentives to undertake a medical procedure.
    
    Surety a medical practitioner can’t perform a procedure without express consent or even if the suspect that the person has been coherst from a third party.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:35am
  - Lummox
    
    MONEY TALKS.
    I know that in Kaitaia you can get a $75 Pak n Save voucher for being vaccinated. A little further south, in Moerewa, it’s $100.
    Any advances on $100??
    
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    October 13, 2021 2:42pm
- Sacha
  
  Sounds like fun.
  What a shame the TV aerial blew down a couple of months ago. All I can see is Al Jazeera, intermittently.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:49am
Don Beckett

https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/canada-is-persecuting-doctors-who-promote-ivermectin-criticize-deadly-covid-injections/
Good article on the use of Ivermectin – but scroll down to the 4 min. video where there is a good explanation.
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October 13, 2021 8:02am
- Steve Todd
  
  This is an excellent article (https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58170809) from BBC Reality Check, giving an alternative view,—
  
  “Ivermectin: How false science created a Covid ‘miracle’ drug”.
  
  Excerpts—
  
  “The BBC can reveal that more than a third of 26 major trials of the drug for use on Covid have serious errors or signs of potential fraud. None of the rest show convincing evidence of ivermectin’s effectiveness.”
  
  “The largest and highest quality ivermectin study published so far is the Together trial at the McMaster University in Canada. It found no benefit for the drug when it comes to Covid.”
  
  “Health authorities in Peru and India have stopped recommending ivermectin in treatment guidelines.”
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:49am
  - krazykiwi
    
    I refer you to Benedict’s comment below, where he notes in respect of the BBC article: –
    
    It is a terrible piece of journalism. The ‘evidence’ is a bunch of cherry picked data exchanged by three guys who hang out on twitter.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:14am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Yes, I saw that after I had put up my comment.
      
      I would point out that your extract of Benedict’s comment is merely his opinion only. I disagree with him. Also, he gave no proof of his assertion about the journalists.
      
      As I said here, https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2021/09/general_debate_08_september_2021.html/comment-page-1#comment-3013779, “Right now, I wouldn’t go near Ivermectin, but I would reverse my position upon MedSafe approval.”
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:38am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “I would point out that your extract of Benedict’s comment is merely his opinion only. ”
        
        What utter crap. I have watched the video and I have checked all of John Campbell’s sources. Seriously there is strong evidence that this drug is safe and effective.
        
        I analyse data for a living and I am the last regular commentator on this blog who would fall for conspiracy theory crap science.
        
        ‘My opinion” what a crock of shit.
        
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        October 13, 2021 9:44am
      - Steve Todd
        
        @Benedict Yu @ 9:44AM
        
        I started to watch the Campbell video a few minutes ago, but, not being as obsessed with COVID-19 and the various vaccines, treatments, for it, as others here are, I wasn’t prepared to spend 27 minutes on it.
        
        Perhaps you could have clearly stated in your 8:04AM comment, that the opinion you posted of the BBC article was John Campbell’s, not yours.
        
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        October 13, 2021 9:57am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Sure, but Medsafe approved Remdesvir, on the strength of a single trial that showed it had zero impact on Covid, and in the face of evidence that it has serious potential side effects on kidney function. And Remdesvir is something like $10K per patient. Now they seem to have rushed through approval of Molnupiravir, which at least showed significant potential benefits but which also has very serious concerns regarding it’s cancer promoting ability.
        
        By contrast Ivermectin is dirt cheap, extremely safe if dosed correctly, and has a good deal of reasonable quality data showing a significant impact. Yet not only does NZ refuse to even consider Ivermectin, you had Bloomfield outright lying about it calling it unsafe. Not unsafe if taken incorrectly in incorrect dosage, but unsafe full stop. Some 3.7 billion doses given to humans already gives the lie to that, with a noted 55 deaths over 20-30 years attributed to it.
        
        The only explanation I can come up with as to why the left especially hates Ivermectin is that it gets rid of parasites, and that’s a big vote bucket for the left everywhere and thus needs protecting.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:11am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        FFS. It is not about anyone’s “opinion”. It is about data. And analysis.
        
        Not only did I spend 27 minutes watching the video, but I spent 2 hours reading all the source articles.
        
        Yes I know that is harder than falling for BBC bullshit.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:34am
      - Steve Todd
        
        It is about data. And analysis.
        
        Then you should have said (at 8:04AM) something like, “As John Campbell says, in this video, after analysing the data, the article ‘is a terrible piece of journalism’. After watching the video, and spending 2 hours reading all the source articles, I agree.”
        
        But you didn’t say anything like that. You put up a comment that, prima facie, was your opinion.
        
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        October 13, 2021 12:47pm
    - -D
      
      The lead author — “a scientist” — is actually a student.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:04pm
  - ross.mc
    
    Many have debunked this dribble. Here is Dr. John Campbells reply, and you can’t say he is anti-vax.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:20am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “This is an excellent article”
    
    ha ha 🙂
    
    and again ha ha
    
    No it bloody is not. How did you conclude that it was excellent. Have you checked for the source publications cited by the ‘experts’?
    
    See my separate link below. I watched the video by John Campbell and I checked his sources.
    
    Don’t believe anything the BBC says.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:42am
    - Sacha
      
      It takes time to read and absorb a long discussion between expert clinicians, and accept the details as truth. Hours, in fact.
      The disgrace of the current situation is that people now think that by skimming through popular media, that they know what they are talking about.
      They don’t.
      And the people who think they do, are just as ignorant and gullible.
      There are good reasons that a number of people in the medical and associated professions are resisting the vaccine treatment.
      They develop a healthy suspicion when ‘facts’ don’t sit well with reality and reserve their decisions.
      
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      October 13, 2021 11:24am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Poor Steve
      He’ll need some Ointment for that series of Burns
      lol
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:59pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Poor old Benedict. I really set you off, didn’t I?
      
      I’ll let you into a little secret. Like one of my two Kiwiblog “heroes”, I, too, regard Kiwiblog primarily as a source of entertainment — except when the subjects are MMP/STV, and religion.
      
      My introductory “This is an excellent article […]”, was purely a device to attract Don’s attention. I simply wished to put up an alternative view, to see what he would respond with. He has chosen not to respond, which, of course, is his prerogative.
      
      I hope you have now calmed down. You did yourself no good this morning.
      
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      October 13, 2021 1:05pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Ummmm no
        
        I flit in and out. I have a real job.
        
        I do my research early in morning.
        
        You fall for BBC shit.
        
        You are lazy because you don’t pursue science.
        
        You think BBC says stuff so it is true.
        
        You don’t set me off. I never think about you.
        
        I think about science and yum cha and making money.
        
        I don’t care who you are.
        
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        October 13, 2021 7:02pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Oh, dear, Benedict. You should have stopped while you were ahead. You have completely lost the plot.
        
        I say no more, because I respect you, and (almost always) your opinions.
        
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        October 13, 2021 8:14pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “You have completely lost the plot.”
        
        Dick. Am making pork belly with the red head and zooming the grand daughter.
        
        I know data.
        
        You fall for BBC shit.
        
        I am fine.
        
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        October 13, 2021 8:23pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        Sadly, I rest my case.
        
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        October 13, 2021 8:27pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Maybe you should just rest Steve, you can pretend you was just trolling, but you fell hard for bullshit and imagined you were clever. Try googling Dunning Kruger.
        
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        October 13, 2021 10:59pm
  - NoFax
    
    This article from the BBC is actually quite hopeless. As already stated John Campbell does an excellent breakdown – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy7c_FHiEac&ab_channel=Dr.JohnCampbell.
    In essence the story provides no sources and is quoting a twitter group (that’s how bad journalism is now). There is nothing to substantiate any of the claims made by the BBC or the twitter group. If you want to review the Ivermectin studies then go here: https://ivmmeta.com/
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:19am
    - PhilBest
      
      Also, Dr Tess Lawrie, who has worked with the WHO for eons, has risked her career on the inside and published a meta-analysis that the WHO refuses to look at; here she VERY politely discusses some of the “obstacles” to Ivermectin:
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3VR31taWo
      
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      October 13, 2021 2:10pm
Benedict Yu

I was reading this morning about the resurgence of air travel globally and in the USA in particular.

Remember 18 months ago pilots were being laid off in huge numbers. Many took early retirement. Now travel is forecast to surge back in 2022. Except for New Zealand. We will be still locked up.

I follow aviation closely. 12 months ago student pilots were despairing that they would never have a career as a pilot. Now they are being snapped up at premium salaries.

Just shows how fast things change.

https://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-News/Airline-News/Airlines-facing-a-new-pilot-shortage-as-planes-but-not-personnel-return
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October 13, 2021 8:03am
- Sir Cullen's Sidekick
  
  Pffft Yu. Cindy has a plan for Air NZ. Go hard, go early.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:30am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Except for South West Airlines, they continue to cancel flights like there is no tomorrow, why would that be, weather, they can’t fly when all other airlines do. Joe Biden has put their arses in a crack they have clearly fallen down and they show no sign and retrieving themselves.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:12am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I thought it was a lack of pilots?
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:36am
  - Nickc2
    
    AFIK, the Pilots didn’t want to be part of this compulsory vaccine thing so they went on strike. I also believe their actions are to be repeated across all US-registered Airlines.
    https://www.tmz.com/2021/10/10/southwest-mass-flight-cancelations-speculation-pilot-covid-vaccine-strike/
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:39am
Benedict Yu

The BBC recently ran a story that ivermectin had efficacy in reducing the severity of COVID disease.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-58170809

It is a terrible piece of journalism. The ‘evidence’ is a bunch of cherry picked data exchanged by three guys who hang out on twitter.

John Campbell has dismantled the article, and goes on to cite part reviewed clinical trials that show that the drug is highly effective.

https://youtu.be/zy7c_FHiEac

It is not a matter of the vaccine vs anti virals. We are going to need both. The problem with ivermectin is there is no money in it. And governments don’t want to distract people from the vaccines. Recently in Australia, doctors were banned from prescribing ivermectin to treat COVID illness, despite overwhelming evidence it is safe and effective.
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October 13, 2021 8:04am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The problem with ivermectin is that it exists. The FDA and other regulatory agencies couldn’t permit the emergency use of the “vaccines” because of that. They had to decry and outlaw it to get around the legal constraints.
  The NZ govt had a duty not to follow that chicanery.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:16am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes. A key condition on which an Emergency Use Authorisation (EUA) is issued is that there be no known alternative treatment, and if any subsequently became apparent then the EUA would be immediately withdrawn. Even considering how much public money poured into Big Pharma to support their ‘vaccine’ development, their losses would have been large.
    
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    October 13, 2021 8:24am
    - Don Beckett
      
      As I commented a week or so ago, “FOLLOW THE MONEY”
      Dead right kk.
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:09pm
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    I am sure price doesn’t play a part in these decisions. Money isn’t involved at all.
    $US dollars per tablet
    Molnupirauir $71.20
    Treated 1,500
    peer reviewed studies Zero
    Invermectin 20 cents
    treated Billions
    60 and counting
    $10 million Development funded by Fauci through the NIAID
    Follow the money, the trough is overflowing.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:20am
- Matthew
  
  RE: Anti-virals
  Good to see @NZLabourParty moving hard and fast to secure 60,000 courses of the antiviral molnupiravir to treat COVID-19 symptoms. At approximately US$700 per course, that’s around $42,000,000.
  Would be great if they could keep the printing press going just a little longer (US$60,000) and they could also get 60,000 courses of Ivermectin. Similar efficacy and longer safety record: https://austinpublishinggroup.com/pharmacology-therapeutics/fulltext/ajpt-v9-id1149.pdf
  If they decide not to use the Ivermectin for Covid, they can always use it to treat the large number of parasites that seem to have come out of the woodwork over the last few years.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:37am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Yes like with anti biotics, there is no money in it, so no new anti biotics, that are proven to work are created.
  
  More money in a pill for life, to treat the symptoms than a pill that fixes a problem.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:43am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    ‘Yes like with anti biotics, there is no money in it, so no new anti biotics, that are proven to work are created.’
    
    This is a lie.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:29am
    - Sacha
      
      Sorry doc, you can’t say stuff like that here and keep your credibility.
      Prove/correct the lie, please.
      
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      October 13, 2021 11:29am
      - rockape
        
        Use google, try pew trust currently 43 new antibiotics being developed
        
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        October 13, 2021 12:31pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        It is actually quite difficult to develop and get new drugs approved, but if a company can introduce a new approved antibiotic that works against some pathogens and doesn’t yet have any resistance, then it would be quite valuable to them.
        
        So a lot of companies are developing antibiotics, in fact hundreds of candidates have been proposed, but a lot fail testing, being ineffective in practice say, or have too many side effects, lots of reasons. Which is rather a pity as there is no doubt quite a bit of demand that could be satisfied.
        
        NSDoc (who I can disagree with on a number of things) is quite correct on this, there’s money in it and new ones are being developed. Can’t tell yet which will survive testing and be useful, but hope springs eternal…
        
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        October 13, 2021 11:05pm
- Ed Snack
  
  I see you’ve come to the “dark side” Benedict, welcome.
  
  A combination of treatment in as many ways as can be found to be even partially effective as long as they are safe, plus vaccination, and such physical measures like limited short term lockdowns and contact tracing, are the glaring obvious ways to treat this whole matter. If we are serious about treating as a medical problem that is.
  
  Right now we seem to be treating it primarily as a political issue to be managed to the advantage of certain parties. Pity about the “patients”.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:15am
- Northshoredoc
  
  To say ivermectin is safe and effective for covid 19 is misleading Benedict.
  
  No studies or credible analysis would support such a sweeping statement.
  
  There are ongoing studies which will provide a clearer picture however.
  
  https://www.ascot-trial.edu.au/blogs/news/oxford-is-trialling-ivermectin-the-path-to-this-point-has-been-rocky-why
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:28am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Safety is well established. one of the safest drugs going and we have data over many years and billions of doses. Efficacy against covid is less certain but the evidence is mounting in spite of the best efforts of big pharma.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:59am
    - Sacha
      
      [para deleted, KB doesn’t host misinformation about treatments – Mod]
      
      But: Merck is developing an oral anti-viral pill which is expected to be available early next year. Since it was the company that produced Ivermectin, the new pill will probably be a close copy.
      [sentence deleted, as above – Mod]
      
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      October 13, 2021 11:55am
      - Northshoredoc
        
        “Since it was the company that produced Ivermectin, the new pill will probably be a close copy.”
        
        This is another lie.
        
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        October 13, 2021 2:03pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Sacha, not sure if you are referring to Molnupiravir as Merck’s new oral anti-Covid treatment, but assuming you are as it seems to fit.
        
        It is not a copy of Ivermectin, at a very casual glance if you are unfamiliar with structural chemical diagrams, it might look vaguely similar, but it is quite distinct. And it works in an entirely different manner.
        
        I think there are very good reasons to be wary of Molnupiravir as its active quality is effectively causing the virus to assemble its RNA incorrectly when replicating, and this same mechanism can affect human DNA, or at least has in previous trials using this and closely related compounds. In viruses the effect is to lead to improper protein specifications an an inability to replicate (which is great), but in humans the same effect can cause and promote cancers. I’ve seen comments by researchers that they had tested such compounds some years back but abandoned that line because of the cancer issues in human cell lines.
        
        Maybe Molnupiravir is a version that only affects RNA and only viral RNA at that, but until it has been well tested and over the medium term at least, I’d be pretty reluctant to use it myself
        
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        October 13, 2021 11:13pm
  - PhilBest
    
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sn3VR31taWo
    
    Dr Tess Lawrie was the perfect person to do this meta-analysis. That’s been her job for eons, including numerous commissions for the WHO. Now they don’t want to touch her with a barge-pole. The stench is coming from the WHO and the Big Pharma lapdog scientists and their rigged “studies”, not from these other honorable people.
    
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    October 13, 2021 2:12pm
kiwikidsnz

In my capacity as Chartered Company Director I was yesterday informed of an upcoming briefing on this Bill proposed by Professor Duncan Webb, Labour MP for Christchurch Central.

Companies (Directors Duties) Amendment Bill – New Zealand Parliament (www.parliament.nz)

Of which the change to the Principal Companies Act is:

4Section 131 amended (Duty of directors to act in good faith and in best interests of company)

After section 131(4), insert:

(5) To avoid doubt, a director of a company may, when determining the best interests of the company, take into account recognised environmental, social and governance factors, such as:

(a) recognising the principles of the Treaty of Waitangi (Te Tiriti o Waitangi):

(b) reducing adverse environmental impacts:

(c) upholding high standards of ethical behaviour:

(d) following fair and equitable employment practices:

(e) recognising the interests of the wider community.

While legally “may” is not “shall” (yet, the Bill is at 1st Reading), the primary inclusion of ToW “Principles” is clearly intended.
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October 13, 2021 8:05am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It’s a woolly bit of drafting. It doesn’t absolve a Director from the outcome of making a bad decision.
  
  The only principles of the Treaty now are to get as much from the Pakeha as they can.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:55am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    I think it means that 50% of the board has to be female and the other 50% Maori.
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:51am
- Nickc2
  
  (5)(a) What Principals? Show and tell time Duncan Webb!!!!
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:04am
- krazykiwi
  
  Speak up anyone who thinks National will repeal this, and all similar legislative infestations?
  Anyone?
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:18am
  - artemisia
    
    Unlikely that the next (or the one after) government will have National with an absolute majority. It will be a coalition with ACT. National has come out with several statements about reversing current regs and policies and I have no doubt there will be many more when the time is right.
    
    There was an excellent commitment to retire at least 2 regs for every new one.
    
    Problem – by 2023 and certainly by 2026 the free money tree will be so much a part of the fabric that it will be very very hard to change. Especially if change involves enticing taxpayers back to New Zealand, and good luck with that.
    
    Anyone ever involved in implementation will be well aware it is much easier to create new and shiny than fight the featherbedded bureaucrats.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:41am
- Gravelroad
  
  Are there any definitions included of what constitutes “high standards” and “fair and equitable”?
  Or are they just made up as you go along?
  Who decides what are “adverse environmental impacts”?
  And as for point (e) how would that be assessed and decided upon?
  Looks like an effort by a Labour Party intern.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:23am
- JJ56
  
  One needs to ask where has a company director been prosecuted for not acting in the best interest of the Company because they took into account ‘recognised environmental, social and governance factors’?
  
  It is clearly not dealing with a known mischief, and its only purposes are firstly window dressing, and then progressive imposition of these factors beyond the requirements of the law.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:43am
  - septic skeptic
    
    I guess the purpose of this bill is to allow woke boards to act in the best interests of Maori rather than the best interests of their shareholders.
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:02am
- Ehlana
  
  I wonder why this section is needed, if acting in good faith and in the best interests of the company has already been mandated. Good faith surely requires high ethical standards and determining best interests means taking into account any and all relevant factors.
  
  The problem I see is that this is a rather nebulous list. What are the principles of ToW? How is an environmental impact determined to be adverse? What is fair and equitable when it comes to employment practices? Which wider community is to have its interests considered?
  What if the directors opinion on any of these things conflicts with the opinions of some other group? Or with the current law?
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:36am
lifesgood

Give us Hope Jacinda is back up on YouTube. Be quick if you want to see it. No doubt her weasels will complain again. New address is youtu.be/FS3K7nlMVGg
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October 13, 2021 8:08am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Great, not to be missed.
  When Pacific people make such a video the PM is really in trouble. They have good manners and would record respect accordingly. I have not seen such a put down previously.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:03am
- Bridgenag
  
  Well done! Good one to send on quickly to the “younger ones”
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:27am
- alex Masterley
  
  Thanks,
  Took a video of it on my phone to preserve the music,
  wonder how long it will before it is taken down.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:50am
- Bobba Fret
  
  The lefties will say its taken down due to copyright or something to do with the Eddie Grant’s 1988 song.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:06am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    That’s what came up on YouTube the other night; the video had been removed because it was in violation of Sony’s copyright.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:29am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  See how long it lasts on Facebook
  
  5 1
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  October 13, 2021 10:16am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The sycophants will be working on another ban right now
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:18am
mandk

“The problem with ivermectin is there is no money in it”

This is true for the manufacturers, but it is difficult to understand the attitudes of governments towards it.

Our own government has ordered molnupavir(?) which is about 20,000 as expensive as ivermectin, but not quite as effective.
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October 13, 2021 8:08am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  All antivirals are most effective if taken prophylactically, as Covid viral load tops out just 5-7 days after infection, and only as little as 2-3days after symptoms show. But super expensive (and possibly mutagenic) Molnupiravir is too expensive and lacks safety data to use it prophylactically – by the time you know you have Covid it is almost too late to get benefit from starting on an antiviral (Indian trials suggest it has little benefit for progressed ‘moderate’ covid). In contrast ivermectin is super-safe and cheap to use prophylactically and has had very positive results when used that way by huge numbers of people.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:07am
- NoFax
  
  The answer is groupthink. As was pointed out in the UK for their inquiry, a small cabal of advisers get fixed on a certain course of action and they all agree with each other. Look at what happened to Plan B. Respected scientists were ignored because it didn’t go along with the pre-determined narrative. It was not like the ideas of Plan B were discussed and weighed and found wanting – they were simply ignored.
  
  The problem for ivermectin is that the trials have been done by clinicians and not researchers, therefore, there can be some issues with the results and methodology. Most researchers actually work with “Big Pharma”. Therefore, the in-group can just dismiss it. For example, one of the scientific journals turned down an article because it found that ivermectin is effective whereas everyone knows it is not!
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:28am
kowtow

Talk about gurnamunter over reach .

“California has become the first US state to require large retailers to display toys and childcare items in gender-neutral ways.

The new law, signed by Governor Gavin Newsom on Saturday, does not ban boys and girls sections in shops.

But large stores must have also have a separate, gender-neutral section.”

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-58879461
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October 13, 2021 8:11am
- krazykiwi
  
  Newsom, the guy that fronted a companied to get every kid in California vaxxed, then it was revealed his own 12yr child had not been vaxxed. He also made a big show of pulling his kids from a baseball camp because the organisers wouldn’t insist all kids wore masks the whole time.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:24am
Nukuleka

The bulk of our MPs have demonstrated that they ascribe to the mantra ‘My body, my choice’ when it comes to the issue of abortion

Funnily enough this mantra seems to fly hastily out the window when it comes to the issue of what we choose or don’t choose to have injected into our bodies.

Hypocrisy? Surely not.

Disclaimer: I have had both jabs.
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October 13, 2021 8:11am
- Ehlana
  
  Yes, I noticed that too. “My body, my choice” suddenly doesn’t apply when someone else’s choice might affect their own bodies.
  
  The Ministry of Health website says, “if you do catch COVID-19, you’re far less likely to fall seriously ill and less likely to transmit the virus to others.” That’s why I got vaccinated.
  
  But if someone doesn’t want to, the only danger I can see is that large numbers of unvaccinated people gathered together would mean that if the virus was spreading through that particular gathering, they would be more likely to get sicker. If our concern is not to overload our hospital system, it would seem to be those large gatherings that need to be avoided, rather than individuals going into shops, work etc.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:59am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, I mentioned this early on.
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:58am
- Steve Todd
  
  Hypocrisy? Surely not.
  
  Not at all.
  
  Surely, the difference is, when a woman gets an abortion, only her body is affected.
  
  Unvaccinated people will likely pass on the virus to both other unvaccinated, and vaccinated, people, who will often clog up hospital beds, meaning the choice of unvaccinated people not to be vaccinated will impact adversely on the bodies of other people.
  
  That is not acceptable!
  
  [I am double-jabbed.]
  
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  October 13, 2021 2:47pm
  - cmm
    
    “Unvaccinated people will likely pass on the virus…”
    
    Vaccinated people will pass it on too.
    
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    October 13, 2021 3:59pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Yep, agreed. But they will be far less likely to do so.
      
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      October 13, 2021 4:42pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Only to the extent that they are somewhat less likely to catch it, but that effect is not that high. Although no doubt subject to further research, vaccinated people with Covid appear to have equivalent viral loads to unvaccinated people, and also appear to spread just the same.
        
        But I see your point, so you are all for banning people with HIV for example from public, it can be passed on to others and is even with treatment pretty deadly especially for the vulnerable.
        
        And it seems rather churlish to point out, that there is one other life affected by an abortion, especially a late term one, and that is the child. Any abortion after say 23-24 weeks is killing a potentially viable human subject to incurable genetic defects of course. But you abortophiles are always keen to ignore that life.
        
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        October 13, 2021 11:20pm
Frank the tank

Everyone else pumped about “Vaxxathon” with all those internationally renowned TV celebrities (sic) rumored to be involved.

Might just be me however I don’t believe vaccine hesitant people will suddenly want to get vaccinated due to watching this garbage.
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October 13, 2021 8:15am
- Stellaboxer
  
  It’s indicative of Ardern and co’s opinion of the NZ public that they believe this nonsense is all that is needed for the hesitation amongst people to be overcome. Maybe if they embarked on some balanced information campaign laying out the real dangers and benefits of the vaccine, offered alternative vaccines and didn’t try and demonise those who wanted to opt out they would persuade many of the hesitant to get jabbed. Of course that would mean treating the people with respect and maturity. So I guess it’s not going to happen.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:13am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  There are two larger groups of vaccine hesitant – the educated/highly informed who prefer to think for themselves, and the ‘low-information’ minimally engaged and poorly educated masses.
  Nothing is going to swing the former, but they are small in number anyway, but Vaxxathon might actually get as small amount of traction with the tick-tok/instagram/reality TV consuming dunderheads who watch NZ TV.
  
  Personally I think just bribing the thickos would be way cheaper and more effective – eg free lottery tickets, or even more powerful and a lot cheaper if they mandated vax for beneficiaries (they are hypocritically doing it for health care and education, but not other govt employees including beneficiaries) but then Cindy would miss out on publicity opportunity.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:16am
- Hollyfield
  
  Going along to the event would be the last thing I would want to do, and watching it on TV would be the second last.
  
  However, I am not the target market. This could well work for the people who haven’t yet got off the couch. It won’t change people who have made a conscious decision not to vaccinate, and I respect people’s right to choose. But I can see younger people going along for the festival atmosphere, and the peer pressure of being part of it could have a positive impact.
  
  Whenever I look at the Prime Minister’s Facebook page I despair of the many comments calling her “Aunty Jacinda”. It’s a culture completely foreign to me, but I think those people may listen to her call and join the excitement.
  
  I hope so, anyway.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:42am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Unfortunately I will be spending the whole weekend playing an online tournament, so i will miss out on this televisual feast. I would record it on MySky but my disk is full of my favourite Sesame Sreet and Playschool episodes.
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:21am
- ByGolly
  
  No, nor will I be swayed by John Kirwan, Simon Gault, the vaxhole Hillary Barry or any other attention seeking parrot.
  
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  October 13, 2021 12:25pm
Paulus

See Robertson has indulged again in Creative Accounting to mushroom us mugs.
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October 13, 2021 8:19am
Yvette

Ardern’s big U turn – sorry about the length, for those without scroll wheels, read only the bits in bold type

Sometimes can you get a better idea of what is going on from international media (although still New Zealand writers) than you can from local MSM?
Especially when you suspect the fourth estate has become the fifth column.

New Zealand government’s pivot from Covid elimination ‘surprised’ top health experts
Michael Baker said lack of discussion with independent experts was a ‘stark contrast’ to earlier pandemic decisions

A number of epidemiologists and public health experts who have been central to helping chart and communicate New Zealand’s Covid response thus far say they were taken by surprise by its new direction, and not consulted by the government as it pivoted away from elimination and outlined a controversial set of “steps” out of level 3 restrictions last week.

… Baker said that lack of discussion with independent public health experts was a “stark contrast” to major decisions at different stages of the pandemic – such as the reopening New Zealand plan released in August, which was based closely on advice from professor David Skegg and featured panels of outside experts at its release.

“I think it’s surprised all the advisers, because it’s not that hard to actually consult – it’s such a stark contrast with the reconnecting strategy released on 12 August, which was, I think really, very well done.”

“It would have been easy to have engaged us with this, and also we could have done a bit of a logic check on it, saying, well, that doesn’t look quite right.”

The government has not released the health advice that informed its decision to ease restrictions in the midst of the outbreak. Some in New Zealand have called on the government to release that rationale – health reporter Marc Daalder wrote last week that, “Given the Government’s approach conflicts with the best advice from the country’s independent experts, New Zealanders have a right to know what advice underpinned Cabinet’s U-turn into the suppression experiment.”
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/12/new-zealand-governments-pivot-from-covid-elimination-surprised-top-health-experts

The shift was introduced by Ardern with a three-step plan to let people gather outdoors and reopen early childhood education, before reopening retail and hospitality. It comes at a time when just 40% of the full population and 47% of the eligible population (those aged 12 and over) are fully vaccinated, while 65% of the full population and 77% of the eligible population have had at least one dose.

Vaccination rates are particularly low among Māori, who are around two thirds behind the wider population. Health experts agree it will probably result in a further rise in cases – a proposition journalist Marc Daalder termed “level three: now with picnics and hospitalisations”. For a country that has never had to reckon with widespread transmission or illness from Covid-19, any excitement over loosened restrictions has been tempered with apprehension and, in some cases, anger at the toll that could lie ahead.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/05/anger-and-grief-new-zealanders-fearful-as-covid-elimination-strategy-ends

Has this Ardern Labour Government not only left the team of Five Million behind this time, but also many of their expert advisors?

Shame we don’t have investigative journalists any more – like Joe Cotē, Dairne Shanahan. or Keith Aberdein (fired from Compass for refusing to change a script he had written for a programme about exploitation of crayfish in the Chatham Islands, just prior an Election) – that we don’t have some one who will ask under the OIA for all advice Ardern’s Cabinet considered in the pivotal shift from elimination to suppression.

Has an over-anxious [1] Ardern made an impulsive [2] move without seeking advice she knew she’d not get the answer from [3] that she wants ?
___________________
[1] Jacinda Ardern opens up on anxieties and having a family – NEXT magazine – https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2017/06/poll-jacinda-ardern-s-popularity-plummets.html – “I just feel like there’s more people to let down now. I do feel an enormous amount of pressure because I know there are lots of people who don’t want me to screw up, and there are just as many who would really love it if I did.”
[2] Jacinda Ardern: ‘Very little of what I have done has been deliberate. It’s intuitive’ – https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/apr/06/jacinda-ardern-intuitive-courage-new-zealand
[3] Government kills off capital gains tax, won’t happen on Jacinda Ardern’s watch – https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/government-kills-off-capital-gains-tax-wont-happen-on-jacinda-arderns-watch/PRAJYZ2BSONYAFTJI4HJ6JUS5A/
– “Politics is not for the faint heated [sic].” Ardern said she was still proud of commissioning the tax report and said the Government had not shied away from the debate. [although her Government did not state a single position in the supposed “national conversation”]
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October 13, 2021 8:19am
- westernScientest
  
  Its hard not to wonder if she has to re-watch her press conferences to see what decision she made….
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:52am
  - Don Beckett
    
    Clearly demonstrates that this “pandemic” is a political stunt, not a medical emergency.
    
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    October 13, 2021 12:27pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Baker and the elimination purists have been dropped basically because they were wrong. They’ve been airbrushed out of the story in good socialist tradition.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:28am
Give a Man a Fish

“How much further until we reach level 2 Cindy Smurf?” asked the team of smurfs.
“Not much farther” says Cindy Smurf.
Yet another week passes. “How much further Cindy Smurf?” asked the team.
“Just another week” says Cindy Smurf.
“Really! you keep saying that. Do you know where you’re going?” replied the team.
“Of course. Don’t worry, I am your saviour, just follow me” says Cindy Smurf.
We don’t know if the team of smurfs that blindly followed Cindy Smurf arrived at their destination or whether they all perished mid-journey due to running out of hope!
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October 13, 2021 8:21am
- Paulus
  
  She is like Confucius who is said to have said-
  “If you do not know where you are going any road will take you there”.
  
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  October 13, 2021 1:16pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Our open and transparent government has been a bit remiss with telling us about all the folks who’ve done a bunk from MIQ.

Officials told the public about only three of those absconding incidents between 1 September 2020 and 11 July 2021 and only after the escapee had been found.

A list obtained under the Official Information Act shows the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment recorded ‘absconding, attempted absconding or unauthorised access’ incidents roughly once every three days, across 30 different MIQ hotels.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/453425/miq-hotels-record-117-boundary-breaches-or-attempts-in-10-months
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October 13, 2021 8:25am
Tricati

Heard Grant Robertson on the radio this morning being questioned by Mike Hosking over the struggle’s businesses are facing currently.
Robertson’s smug response was ‘we have paid out billions in wage subsidies and business resurgence payments. Firstly, wage subsidies are for the employee, and not the employer, so are in effect an employee benefit, and secondly, the business resurgence payment (as my wife’s business knows only to well) doesn’t even cover heat, light, power, insurance and rent, so businesses are still having to cover shortfalls in fixed /operating costs, let alone loss of revenue.
At a time, Robertson is gloating over how ell the economy is doing, and the high tax take, does he ever think where that tax income is coming from – In large parts, it is coming from those businesses his government hates through their GST, Terminal and Provisional taxes and the PAYE of its employees.
Robertson is an odious man that can talk lots of crap, but his only strategy is the borrow on the heads of future generations, or over-tax businesses to make him look good.
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October 13, 2021 8:25am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  Only Labour can claim that losing money is a strong economy. $23bn deficit last year, and $4bn at June this year. $50bn of extra debt (so far), bn’s of $ printed and inflation going up and up. Yep, the economy is going gangbusters. This is what you get with a Finance Minister who struggles to balance his own cheque book.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:04am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Grant doesn’t have a financial bone in his body. He should talk to his dad, at least he was an accountant (although not an honest one)
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:09am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The take is partly from recycling the wage subsidy. The employer gets that, pays it out and the PAYE is deducted! Borrow, spend and collect the tax for more spending.
  
  Robertson is a disgrace to the Office. I expect the PM could not choose Ministers with any higher ability than her. Her Attorney General is leading NZ into lawlessness.
  There is excellent reason for the Gov General to intervene and require a fresh election.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:14am
- Cinematic
  
  Grant has zero business acumen. Grant has made a career out of trolling National. That’s pretty much all he’s done his ‘working life’.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:18am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Lets hope his “On the first day of Christmas National gave us Covid” comes back to bite him.
    Is Christmas actually happening this year in Auckland as seems like we may still be in level 3 in December.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:12am
    - Tony Stuart
      
      He just needs to be reminded that Labour gave us Covid for Labour Day!
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:30am
- ecco
  
  Glad Mike highlighted that the better than expected deficit is actually due to all of Grantie’s money printing he’s been doing. Minor detail.
  
  Other points to note, these are the numbers for the June quarter. That’s 3 months ago. We are now into October. That was then, this is now. Where’s the NZ balance sheet as well? That must be looking a bit sick now. Grew the debt there a bit with these lockdowns.
  
  Won’t find out about Robertson’s efforts for the Sept quarter until March 2022. The Treasury need to up their game and get these numbers out far quicker. Like they do in the States. Within days of the quarter ending.
  
  Anyway the bottom line is that due to all of Grant’s money printing he’s presiding over one of the greatest reallocations of wealth from the millenials, locked out of the housing market, to the boomers, who hold those assets. As we are seeing it’s almost impossible for a first home buyer to get into the NZ housing market now without inherited wealth. It’s all good by me Grant, but some of your constituents aren’t too happy about it. Just saying.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:21am
- Paulus
  
  .
  
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  October 13, 2021 1:18pm
Simon

Taliban demand reparations from countries involved in the Build Back Better / Afghanistan war.

Mahuta’s position is that provided the Taliban recognizes Maori “partnership” role with the NZ crown and offers a 30% rebate back to iwi plus consulting fees then sure NZ will make reparations to the Taliban.
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October 13, 2021 8:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Bribery. There is no such partnership.
  It’s all in the eyes of a greedy Maori Caucus.
  What’s the arrangements for the tribes to share the spoils? Surely Nga Puhi and Ngai Tahu are not going to be ruled by Waikato? Aren’t Nga Puhi still waiting to fully process their Waitangi claim so they can max it out?
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:22am
  - Simon
    
    Not partnership its parasite.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:33am
Durden

Dr. Abdul Qadeer Khan, Pakistani scientist, developer of weapons of mass destruction for Pakistan, with technology stolen from the west, and enabler of nuclear weapon proliferation by helping North Korean nuclear programme — dies.

Irony is that he was struck dead by that other weapon of mass destruction — Covid19.

https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2021/10/11/pakistan-eulogizes-nuclear-proliferator-aq-khan-national-icon/
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October 13, 2021 8:26am
- amospicton
  
  Isn’t describing covid as a weapon of mass destruction similar to describing Ardern as a leader?
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:45am
- Inandout
  
  D, ‘coronavirus, or one of its comorbidities’ and aged 85.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:50am
Tony Stuart

So not only is the Vaxathon a naff, cheesy idea, it’s another idea Labour has stolen; this time from Sir John Key:

Sir John Key says he is “delighted” to hear the Government announce a “vaxathon” as part of the Super Saturday vaccination drive, an idea he raised in August.

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern today announced the “blast from the past” telethon-style event would take place between 12-8pm on various TV channels.

It would include real-time data on how regions are going, prizes, information from experts and competition between towns and regions.

Key raised the idea in an interview with Newstalk ZB’s Mike Hosking in August, saying the Government should adopt a telethon-style approach to boost vaccination numbers and open up our borders by Christmas.

“I am delighted they adopted this idea,” Key told the Herald today.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-sir-john-key-delighted-government-adopting-telethon-idea-for-super-saturday-to-boost-vaccinations/XNI65BQP6ENCS6KEA565Y47U6E/

Has the Ardern government had an original idea during the whole Covid pandemic, and especially during the current Delta outbreak? Well, yes, they’ve had one or two, but they haven’t worked out particularly well:

Michael Morrah
@MichaelMorrah
People crossing the Auckland border are not required to produce a negative test, only show they’ve had a test. Police won’t say if they checked the status of Northland pair. Prof Baker says the system has “so many holes it’s not fit for purpose”
@NewshubNZ

https://twitter.com/MichaelMorrah/status/1447824366398414849

Given that imitation is said to be the most sincere form of flattery, John Key will be feeling very pleased with himself this morning. It was a hoot last night watching the reactions of Labour Bros on social media when they found out that Jacinda’s Vaxation was Key’s idea! All that remains is for her to announce Harry Tam as one of the presenters!
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October 13, 2021 8:31am
I remember when

RNZ: Covid modelling paints worrying picture for South Auckland.
Hands up every/anyone who learned what was going to happen by listening to Covid Modellers.
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October 13, 2021 8:32am
- JJ56
  
  Ditto climate modelers, or even economic ones.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:49am
Simon

Noted public health EXpert! and all round Covid Ex-pert gets into the spirit of Vaxx Saturday. Pledges between now and Christmas for every 1,000 Maori vaxxed they will eat a 24 piece KFC bucket! Take that haters!
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October 13, 2021 8:33am
Tomtoddy

There have been a number of articles in the MSM of late about the relationship between Covid and minority groups. Most focus on Maori and Pacifica but today there is a story about discrimination of Asian in the health system.

I have searched my conscience and my mind as to what this is about thinking maybe I am prejudiced. We have a Maori couple living next door – great neighbours and friends. They are proud of their heritage and hang out with many Maori friends and family.

They did some quick research and were among the earliest to get a jab. Apparently most of their contacts have also. We have discussed some reservations and why they think that there is a “Maori” problem. “Its a beat up, bro”, John reckons. “Our Kaumātua and our kuia are jabbed. Forget the young buggers. They can cope”.

So is John right and it is a beat up to make the rest of us feel bad? Another part of the Maorification of Aotearoa led by the elite?
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October 13, 2021 8:34am
- MCos
  
  Your Maori mates no more speak for all Maori than my wife speaks for all Thai in NZ and there’s an awful lot fewer of them.
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:46am
- NoFax
  
  For the latest vaccine date go to: https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
  
  About half way down there is a heat map of Maori and Pacific Peoples comparing their vaccination rate to the general population . It is clear that Maori over 50 are getting vaccinated at or near the rates of the general population. Maori 35 and younger are not – so that does conform with your neighbour’s thoughts.
  
  For Pacific Peoples they are at or near the rate for the general populations – in fact in some regions they are higher.
  
  It seems to me people have made their decision about vaccination. The elderly (including Maori and Pacific Peoples) have overwhelming taken the opportunity whereas young Maori have declined. Maybe young Maori are waiting for the parents and grand parents to get vaccinated first but who knows for sure.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:41am
Yvette

Te Pāti Māori genocide?
New Zealand’s government would be committing “modern genocide” by reopening the country as Covid spreads among under-vaccinated indigenous [sic] people, the Māori party has said.
The comments come as the country is struggling to contain its current Delta outbreak, with 95 cases reported over the weekend, and another 35 on Monday. Most current cases and hospitalisations are among Māori and Pacific New Zealanders, despite [being] less than 30% of the total population. New Zealand is also in the process of pivoting away from its longstanding elimination strategy.

… We need to be placed back into a level that will break the circuit of this outbreak for Māori,” co-leader of the Māori party Debbie Ngarewa-Packer said on Monday.

“If the government is prepared to open the borders as soon as our country is 90% vaccinated, they are willingly holding Māori up to be the sacrificial lambs. It is a modern form genocide.”

Modelling by research centre Te Pūnaha Matatini found Māori were 2.5 times more likely to be hospitalised with Covid-19 than non-Māori, after controlling for age and pre-existing conditions. Pacific people were three times more likely to end up in hospital with Covid.

On top of that, Māori are more likely to have pre-existing conditions, like diabetes and asthma, that put them at greater risk if they contract Covid-19.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/11/maori-party-warns-reopening-new-zealand-amid-covid-outbreak-would-be-modern-genocide

Does Debbie Ngarewa-Packer not realise Maori are also in Cabinet?

And if the two women (perhaps of Maori descent) who toured Northland have spread covid to the region, beyond the control of the Government – especially if the two women attended a tangi and their subsequent location was hidden by those on a marae (the Police had to obtain a warrant of arrest, so that is checkable) – is this introduction of the virus to Northland, still “holding Māori up to be the sacrificial lambs”? And would it be “a modern form genocide”, even if the same number, resulting from a non-Maori introduction, become seriously ill and many hundreds, if not thousands, die?

And if the co-leader of the Māori party, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, can concede these two points, are her remarks in fact just racist, or actually “hate speech”?
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October 13, 2021 8:40am
- Southern Raider
  
  And if Hone would use his resources and energy to actually help get Northland Māori vaccinated?
  
  No better for him to just bitch to the media and organise roadblocks. Waste of oxygen
  
  If Māori aren’t victims then these people have no relevance
  
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  October 13, 2021 8:54am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Maori have had more than equal opportunity to get vaxxed, with all sorts of extra hand holding and cajoling targeting them. If they have chosen not to then that is between them and Darwin, you can’t save stupid people from themselves.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:22am
- KH
  
  More Maori hospitalised. (and Pasifika).
  But what would the numbers be if catgorised by body weight (BMI)
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:49am
- cmm
  
  Genocide is an extremely inflammatory word to use.
  
  Let’s look at the ten stages of Genocide to see how many of those are being applied against Maori.
  
  1. Classification: Certainly Maori are being classified. But this is what they want. They don’t want to be treated the same. They want to be seen as special and different. Give that 0.5
  2. Symbolisation: Ditto. 0.5 again.
  3.Discrimination: There is no negative discrimination against Maori.
  4. Dehumanisation: Nope
  5. Organisation: Government planning to do away with Maori? Nope, not happening.
  6. Polarisation: Yes, that is happening, but again not against Maori. No Untermenchen labelling.
  7. Preparation: No planning of “final solutions” etc.
  8. Persecution: Nope. Persecution of non Maori is more of a thing.
  9. Extermination: Nope
  10. Denial: Nope – but that’s really a post-genocide thing.
  
  So my rating of the Maori Party genocide claim is 1/10.
  
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  October 13, 2021 3:46pm
ecco

Would like to commend Mike Hosking for his interviews in the morning on his show. He is almost singlehandedly calling the government to account over the government induced omnishambles that we find ourselves in. Asking the questions that most NZers want to know.

Basically Mike’s asking ‘WTF is the government’s plan to get out of this hell hole they’ve put us in?’. It must be the most frustrating task, repeatedly hearing Robertson and co’s ‘delta’s very tricky, blah blah blah’. The same old trope every morning. Still more obfuscation. ‘Yes we are very sorry for the poor business people’ etc etc. But still no answers.

The bottom line is Arden and co are just catering to the lowest common denominator in NZ, a subsection of their voter base, who refuse to get vaccinated. The government knows there’s covid circulating in their South Auckland voter base. Waste water testing would be telling them that. They don’t know what to do about it. That’s obvious. They really couldn’t care less how long this lockdown goes on for for the rest of Auckland. They talk in quarters and months to get things done, when failing businesses have literally days and hours before they will go over the precipice.

I’m predicting next Monday’s announcements will be yet another damp squib. Tinkering around the edges, no real differences for the citizens and businesses in Auckland. I’m guessing though there will be more announcements of initiatives with months long time frames. Everything’s going to happen ‘in the first quarter of next year’ according to Robertson.

Let’s hope Ardern sees the light and allows Auckland retail businesses to open next week. Save a few livelihoods. Why don’t you Jacinda?

Covid is just a cover for the government to maintain their communist style grip over New Zealand. Hope the citizens who voted for this crowd are enjoying the extended lockdown we have imposed on us at the moment, due to their vote.
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October 13, 2021 8:40am
- MCos
  
  Forty three covid case revealed yesterday.
  Shock Horror.
  What is the plan to get us out of this Hell Hole?
  
  Meanwhile the UK averages around thirty six thousand a day. Equivalent to 3,000 in NZ.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:03am
  - graham
    
    And Scotland, where James Shaw will shortly be jetting off to in order to attend COP26, has reported 17,358 cases over the past seven days.
    
    This would be the same James Shaw who, back in August, refused to attend Parliament while Wellington was at Alert Level 4, in order to “slow the spread of the virus”. Mr Shaw stated that it wasn’t just about the MPs sitting in the Debating Chamber, it was about all the potential close contacts such as cleaners, security staff, parliamentary staff, etc,
    
    Mr Shaw also pointed out that an MP travelling from Auckland to Wellington would come into contact with “dozens of people along the way”.
    
    How many people do we think Mr Shaw is likely to come into contact with when he travels from Auckland to Glasgow? Is flying into a country which is reporting nearly 2,500 cases every day the best way of “slowing the spread of the virus”?
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:32am
  - kowtow
    
    Complain to your She Devil , she done it to you.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:38am
  - ecco
    
    @Mcos I’m guessing you are on Ardern’s payroll along with Mikey? I’d be guessing right eh.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:06am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Ardern may command the TV but she cannot command the economy (or the virus,)
  
  ~~Sometimes~~ communism just doesn’t work ever.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:29am
westernScientest

Haha, this is either the most elite royal status virtue signal ever, or it is a awesome troll.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/300428974/prince-charles-says-his-aston-martin-runs-on-wine-and-cheese-byproducts
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October 13, 2021 8:43am
Southern Raider

The Vaxathon just optimises Labour.

Not the idea as such, but the target and lack of aspiration. Last week we achieved several days of 80,000 jabs per day and in August we had one day of 93,000

So when you organise a “super Saturday” nationwide fully televised event aimed at substantially moving the dial, what aspiration target would you choose?

Of course you don’t choose 250,000 which would actually be a great result and meaningful, you of course choose only 8% more than you have achieved previously without a nationwide televised event

Everything about Labour is just fucken mediocre
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October 13, 2021 8:52am
- WaveyDavey
  
  The list of Vaxathon presenters… *groan*
  
  Cue thousands switching channels
  
  I refuse to listen to this https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/patrick-gower-vaxathon-host-says-the-event-will-be-a-magical-moment-in-new-zealand-history/
  
  But Gower’s toddler quote sounds typical of the man
  
  One of the hosts, Patrick Gower, has laughed off Heather du Plessis-Allan’s concerns it will be a disaster and a bit lame.
  
  “You are going to be proven totally, totally wrong by that because I haven’t been involved in anything lame ever…”
  
  I haven’t been involved in anything lame ever…” ahahahahahahahahaha…
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:03am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    Has he forgotten the Lauren Southern/Stefan Molyneux interview?
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:05am
    - emmess
      
      Or his face?
      Sorry cheap shot but I couldn’t resist
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:23am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        He certainly has a great face for radio 😉
        
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        October 13, 2021 9:50am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        A great face for Halloween imo, shame about the rest of the year . . .
        
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        October 13, 2021 11:09pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      After which he had to scuttle off to the Project to have his head patted and told he was a good boy
      
      Gower is just a walking ego with a mouth and a massively over-inflated sense of his own importance
      
      Oh and with a face suited to radio, but then the spit-spraying speech…
      
      Must have be an original diversity hire
      
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      October 13, 2021 9:34am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Or when he tried to interview Bernie Sanders
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:18am
  - kowtow
    
    I heard him on the HDPA show , not knowing who it was , and I said to myself ;
    
    Self , who’s this maori fulla talking.
    
    He’s going down the ‘I’m putting on a street cred accent ” to fit in road .
    
    What a , to use the Tovaism , cockwomble.
    
    In the UK they say that cook fellow Oliver uses a “mockney” accent .
    
    I wonder what the NZ equivalent could be called ?
    
    Faux bro ?
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:36am
- ecco
  
  Most of the uptake on Saturday, apparently, will be due to the bump in first vax that there was 6 weeks ago and people who were going to get their second vax. But Ardern won’t be spinning it like that will she? Of course not.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:11am
  - Southern Raider
    
    Yes I was thinking if 100,000 was only counting new first doses then that is a good target, but as you said it will be 90% second doses that were already booked in and will just be brought forward. Watch for vaccination daily rates next week absolutely plummet
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:45am
KH

Can’t get this one right. Any improvements welcomed.
“….. There was a tired old hooker of the gang.
Who was sick and tired of the bang.
But when Hipkins begs, would you all spread your legs.
She snuck up North and forked them….”
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October 13, 2021 9:04am
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Your poem demeans a person who is clearly the victim of multiple forms of Western exploitation of the indigenous masses, so I’ve rewritten it to more conform with modern notions of social justice.
  
  A brave young victim of colonial oppression
  Found a treatment for minority male depression.
  She went many a weary mile
  Curing hordes with passion and style
  Until stopped by the blue-clad forces of repression.
  
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  October 13, 2021 12:53pm
  - KH
    
    Excellent Dave. I am now trying to work in something about colonlism and the missionary position. Mmmmh
    
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    October 13, 2021 2:01pm
In Vino Veritas

Vaxathon. Yep, probably a good idea. Particularly if they have entertainment and KFC. And Robertson, Twyford, Davis and Little rapping……
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October 13, 2021 9:09am
- ecco
  
  haha
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:11am
Nickc2

Another well-thought-through regulation by this petulant childish Govt.
How long must WE SUFFER due to Govt incompetence?
https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/national/questions-grow-over-northland-cases-after-government-website-reveals-negative-test-not-required-to-cross-borders/vi-AAPplnJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531
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October 13, 2021 9:17am
- Paulus
  
  At least another two plus years of Cindy’s Hard Labour !
  
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  October 13, 2021 1:25pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Bring on the revolution!
    
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    October 13, 2021 2:13pm
Durden

I have a hypothesis that the cycle of each Covid outbreak lasts roughly about 2-3 months. Regardless of what the country does in terms of lockdowns, lockdown types and spending. It seems to apply across advanced countries and less developed. It is similar across geographies too. Whether it is Israel/Taiwan, Sweden/USA, S Korea/Singapore, or India/Brazil.

In some cases if there are two close successive outbreaks it may look like it has lasted up to 5-6 months. Appearance of a new variant may also have some impact.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

Here I am defining “cycle” as the duration of the curve between a clear uptick — through its peak–and dropping to case levels where the original uptick was visible.

I do not look at number of deaths at all, just the cases cycle duration. While government action may seem to have an impact, population seems to be a more significant factor. And it does not seem to matter what vaccination levels were.

My hypothesis is that each outbreak is marching to its natural cycle.

Ben Yu’s take, that regardless of vaccination, this will continue in cycles till we all get Covid and the virus weakens and ends its overall “pandemic” cycle (rather than each outbreak cycle) seems reasonable. The natural pandemic cycle will end when the virus evolves and weakens.

My take is that the control and elimination measures are all drama to show that the government is “doing something”. To no effect in terms of reducing cycle time.

I tried looking for any studies that have looked at this hypothesis. Found just one. And that was from early in the pandemic in March 2020 from Israel.

https://www.jpost.com/Opinion/Spread-of-COVID-19-begins-to-show-pattern-of-4-8-week-eruption-cycle-622035

Not sure if the lack of studies of this aspect is due to oversight, or wilful blindness associated with starving any such research being of funding. While I may get chastised for this–the situation to me resembles lack of formal large scale, double blind studies, of the effectiveness of Ivermectin, pre-dosing with Vit D/Zinc etc.

I look forward to your thoughts.
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October 13, 2021 9:18am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Guess what…
  
  Most viral outbreaks in history have had a 2 year cycle.
  
  They burn around the world then peter out. Often they reappear and repeat
  
  Chances are if we hadn’t interfered with that cycle we would be coming out of it now – hey just like many European countries are
  
  But all we’ve done is drag it out for longer
  
  Think of it like a sticking plaster – quick pull and sharp pain vs a long drawn-out unpeeling that lasts far longer
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:37am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, the worst pandemic in the last 200 years was the Spanish Flu. It was arguably 300x as bad as CV19. It lasted 2 years.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:12am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      https://www.mphonline.org/worst-pandemics-in-history/
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:53am
- krazykiwi
  
  Good analysis. That natural cycle was documented in 1840 by British epidemiologist William Farr.
  
  In terms of “To no effect in terms of reducing cycle time” I suggest that non-sterilizing vaccines may be accelerating viral evolution, and that NPIs such as lockdowns in high-density populations have increased disease propagation.
  
  Overall though, this stopped being a medical crisis some time ago. It is primarily a political crisis with modelers wheeled out into the media limelight so they can pump the unthinking full of fear porn.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:39am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    There is an argument, made by some medical professionals, that by locking everyone away in an attempt to prevent transmission it “encourages” the most transmissible variants of a virus to become dominant
    
    I guess if that is the case then it’s the luck of the draw as to whether those variants are more or less lethal
    
    But it is interesting that most of the English-speaking world is now obsessing over cases rather than deaths
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:55am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Here’s another paper on Covid-19 cycles,
  published in June 2021 and dealing with outbreaks cycles from 37 countries:
  
  Understanding the cycles of COVID-19 incidence: Principal Component Analysis and interaction of biological and socio-economic factors
  https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8168336/
  
  Some insights:
  Cyclic tightening and loosening of lockdown mandates or compliance to the rule in different countries may be associated with intermittent exposure to indoor conditions that enhance transmission in patterns compatible to those displayed by the measured and predicted waves presented by our study [17]
  
  and
  Our study shows that the waves are not completely seasonal, and that social and policy factors are playing a significant role in the pattern of infection across communities.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:34am
Maggie Pie

HEADLINES THAT MAKE YOU GO….. SHEEESH

‘Dudge Takes Pity On Sex Offender’

Maybe the judge has a form of Jesus Complex?

https://stuff.co.nz/national/crime/126651020/you-wont-survive-jail-judge-takes-pity-on-young-sex-offender
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October 13, 2021 9:18am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maybe the judge has a better knowledge of prison life than you do. Fresh meat is much appreciated in prison.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:32am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And by scum pedos loose on the street as well.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:37am
Flossie

What a waste of time having Hipkins on AM Breakfast on three this morning. Waffled on as usual and told us exactly nothing. Apparently “it depends” on so many things… percentages and dates are not to be discussed it seems. The only thing I learned was that he is certainly not keen on taking a pay cut – that is not his area of responsibility. Not Judith Collins’ either but she said she would take a cut.
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October 13, 2021 9:19am
dime

Have National put out any press releases this week about gangs?

Cause they are batshit crazy if they havent.

National should be all over this gang trash problem.

Highligting the growing numbers and geographicla spread. highlighting each time one gets arrested for some godawful crime.

All the time reminding them that jacinda gave them 3 million bucks and kinda likes them.
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October 13, 2021 9:23am
- Fletch
  
  Nat MP Simeon Brown is the only one ballsy enough to ever bring it up.
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:43am
- ecco
  
  Winston should do that for National. A favour for putting Ardern back in for the last two terms. MSM don’t touch Winston when he says race based comments.
  
  It’s a minefield out there for National commenting on these topics with the woke MSM out there. Bought on by Ardern’s media covid bribe fund. What with the likes of Toxic Tova and Jess over at TV1. They are looking for any material like you are suggesting to have a go at Nats and Act.
  
  Expect Winston to come through with the race card middle of next year when everyone starts going into election mode. It always works for him.
  
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  October 13, 2021 12:17pm
  - dime
    
    its racist to say gangs are trash?
    
    if so, then who cares anyway??
    
    national wont poll higher until they grow a spine
    
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    October 13, 2021 12:46pm
    - UrbanNeocolonialist
      
      Beauty is only skin deep, but it is clear from seeming typical patched members that ugly goes to the bone.
      
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      October 13, 2021 4:55pm
Yvette

Ardern said there’s a lot to consider about whether to ease restrictions, especially when it comes to Auckland – which remains the epicentre of the Delta outbreak.
“[We’ll] look at the cases… look at vaccination levels,” she said.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/covid-19-other-countries-have-told-new-zealand-not-to-use-vaccination-targets-for-easing-restrictions-jacinda-ardern.html

How do you evaluate “vaccination rates” without having an optimum level in mind and does Ardern have such a percentage in mind, but refuses to publicly say what it is, dismissing that logical action because –

“In the many other conversations I’ve had with other countries who have used targets, they’ve all said to me, ‘Don’t use targets,’ and one of the reasons is because they’ve found that when they’ve reached those places, they haven’t necessarily been in the right place to remove [restrictions]. Or, who knows? There may be circumstances in which we could move earlier,” she said.

Which countries? And what places – vaccination percentage targets – did they find unsuitable?
“There may be circumstances in which we could move earlier,” she said. Like, what?

“The second thing we’ll take into account is the outbreak itself; the numbers that we see, our ability to continue to control it – we’ve still taken the same approach today that we did on day one. We aggressively contact trace, we aggressively try and manage.

Day one saw one positive case.
Monday October 4, which elimination was changed to a policy of suppression [1]
There are 29 new cases of Covid-19 in the Delta community outbreak. Of these, eight are yet to be epidemiologically linked to the outbreak.[2] Location of new community cases: Auckland (28); Waikato (1)
So Ardern eases restrictions on a day that is eight times worse (8 non-epidemiologically linked cases), if not twenty nine times worse (straight number of cases), than the one case that triggered the initial jump to Level 4.

Is she really a well person?
_______________
[1] Ardern – usually the master of clear, concise, easy-to-understand speeches – instead delivered a confusing avalanche of rule-changes for Auckland. They were meant to provide some respite to Aucklanders still living under level 3 conditions, but it just confused the narrative, and was essentially Level 3, with picnics.
And with picnics, came concern about whether people could use park toilets. Auckland Council was blindsided by the announcement and had to scramble to open half of their public toilets so people weren’t forced to use the bushes.
… Now there’s talk they’re going to scrap the level-system, and introduce a traffic-light system. More confusion to a confusing week for the government. You’re probably feeling like me: confuddled and a bit discombobulated.
https://www.magic.co.nz/home/news/2021/10/lloyd-burr–a-week-in-politics-the-government-will-be-glad-is-ne.html
[2] https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300422594/covid19-outbreak-situation-report-what-happened-today-october-4
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October 13, 2021 9:23am
I remember when

Remember when lepers used to have to walk around calling out “unclean, unclean.”
Couldn’t happen now could it.
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October 13, 2021 9:27am
Lance

Offer free KFC, V and weed for the jab…
Vax-a-thon is a huge success… easy.
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October 13, 2021 9:28am
Maggie Pie

And a “BIG CONGRATS” to Heather & Bazza!! 😀

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1447790957248884736
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October 13, 2021 9:33am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Yes, it’s wonderful news for them. Still, I wonder how Barry is going to cope with having a teenager in the house when he’s nearing 80!
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:01am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    By then, there’ll probably be a pill for that as well 😛
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:40am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I like it.
    
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    October 13, 2021 12:50pm
  - Sacha
    
    There are reports of Ivermectin reducing viral counts within 4-5 days in patients with mild symptoms.
    There are protocols which can be used by individuals at home, including zinc/vitD3 & C and Ivermectin, enabling the patient to recover without becoming really ill, or needing hospital care.
    I think the Government is acting criminally by refusing to allow GPs to prescribe Ivermectin.
    But: Merck is developing an oral anti-viral pill which is expected to be available early next year. Since it was the company that produced Ivermectin, the new pill will probably be a close copy.
    Here is an easy read about Ivermectin from Thomas Brody
    https://rentry.co/borody-protocol
    
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    October 13, 2021 1:04pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      See above Sacha, Molnupiravir is NOT a copy of or even particularly close to Ivermectin, and it works through an entirely different mechanism.
      
      But not just Ivermectin, Aspirin seems to to be pretty effective against getting serious symptoms, probably due to its activity as a blood thinner and anti-coagulant. Another cheap and easy drug for the government to ignore.
      
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      October 13, 2021 11:37pm
  - lifesgood
    
    He’ll be way over 80 by the time his son is a teenager. He’s close to 70 now. Congratulations to them. It is the old story, young girl marries old man, happy to be childless, but as time goes by her maternal instincts kick in and he has no choice.
    
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    October 13, 2021 1:19pm
Yvette

“The most important message is to get tested even if you’re vaccinated, because if people have been exposed to it but they’re vaccinated, they may be feeling very well but can still pass the virus on.”
– Whangārei mayor Sheryl Mai

Whangārei mayor, so presumably not a health expert, but where is any element of “herd” or “community” immunity?
Is such a concept in fact “stardust”?
_______________
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/coronavirus-latest-on-covid-19-community-outbreak-wednesday-october-13.html
Also, Dissident council says Govt has offered it $90m to participate in water reforms.
… Whangārei mayor Sheryl Mai has provided Newsroom a report her council commissioned from global economic consultants Castalia. She says it debunks Local Government Minister Nanaia Mahuta’s claims that amalgamating the water services into four big regional authorities would save money. – so Sheryl Mai is not dopey.
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October 13, 2021 9:41am
Tony

For those of you that would rather get Covid than have the jab:

https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/health/conditions-and-diseases/coronavirus/covid-long-haulers-long-term-effects-of-covid19
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October 13, 2021 9:41am
- cmm
  
  Nothing new here. All diseases have potential long term consequences.
  
  Get a tooth infection and it might cause long term heart damage.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:08am
- Inandout
  
  Tony, can’t argue I suppose with those views. There is however an elephant in the room re cancer and such diseases because people have to wait for so long to get treated they often die of complications. It seems that so long as we lose zero people due to covid the thousands of others will just have to wait for operations and sadly many will die in the process.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:09am
  - Tony
    
    Agreed. It is a lose-lose at the moment.
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:22am
- Yvette
  
  Will post-COVID syndrome, long COVID or long-term COVID become a handicap recognised by Government under ACC, or similar system, as deserving of free treatment and compensation, especially as any occurrence of covid in New Zealand can only originate from a fault (human accident or premeditated criminal action) in the Government run MIQ facilities?
  
  So if you contract covid and survive, perhaps do demand an authenticated copy of the epidemiological link as evidence of where you contracted it from.
  
  You should probably also retain any notification that confirms your cancer examine, treatment or anything else relating to other serious medical conditions that is delayed for reasons of (accidental) covid priority, as per the remarks of Inandout, above, indicate
  
  And @ Cmm, tooth infection has long existed in New Zealand, covid has not, and can only at present enter the country through a break (accident) in border protection.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:41am
  - cmm
    
    ” and can only at present enter the country through a break (accident) in border protection”
    
    Sounds like virginity: one prick and it’s gone.
    
    It HAS entered. It is endemic already, we’re just in the early days. Even if the current outbreak does die down, it is only a matter of time before the next one.
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:13am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Tony, you still get covid with the jab, now you have the long term covid effects and no natural anti-bodies.
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:14am
- Surely Knott
  
  That is not the choice in front of us. Both jabbed and unjabbed can catch covid. Lesser chance of death is what you’re buying. (which is obviously pretty darn important) But jabbed are still being hospitalised in large numbers in uk and israel.
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:31am
- Sacha
  
  The most common complications (as far as I can tell) result from the initial condition not being treated promptly/effectively and what is called a ‘cytokine storm’ emerging. Late treatment results in months of fatigue and susceptibility to casual respiratory problems
  Covid is often referred to as a condition affecting the immune system, and it is this that should be addressed first when a person becomes symptomatic with mild ‘flu’ symptoms.
  
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  October 13, 2021 1:12pm
Scooter

Why is it, it will take until Nov 2022 before the murderer of Lena Zhang Harrap goes to trial (and seems to happen with most cases in NZ). This must add unbelievable and unnecessary distress to her family and friends.
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October 13, 2021 9:50am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I’m surprised that the trial has been given a date as early as thirteen months away. Covid Alert Level restrictions have stopped Courts from holding jury trials, and delays are going to get longer and longer over the next year to eighteen months.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:25am
Inandout

On Hosking’s politician show this morning Nash was at his nastiest when he espoused the unjabbed will be barred from bars, venues and lose their jobs as they will have no ‘passport’. This fear factor is of course ahead of the Saturday Vax Show where the miracle 90% may be reached. It is then Jacinda ‘may’ have a plan to get us out of ‘elimination’. I wouldn’t vote for Nash even if threatened with eternal damnation. As an aside I wish that National chap would get elocution lessons to counter his bloody mumbling.
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October 13, 2021 10:02am
- Tony Stuart
  
  I heard that. He sounded positively gleeful as he spelt out all the things those who choose not to be vaccinated (which is their right) will miss out on. It did him no credit at all, and does nothing to dispel the perception that Labour MP’s a reveling in the level of control they now have over us.
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:28am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    that endorphin rush every time they open their mouths……
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:12am
  - Sacha
    
    He’s a nasty piece of work. One of those people you’d avoid at the pub.
    
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    October 13, 2021 1:19pm
Durden

Amish got herd immunity long ago. Without vaxx and even Covid-10 treatments ?

This article says so, but lacks supporting links.
https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2021/10/10/attkisson_how_amish_communities_became_the_first_to_acheive_herd_immunity_from_covid-19_in_may_2020.html

Maybe it is because they have fewer of the co-morbidities that seem to afflict the general population.
https://time.com/5159857/amish-people-stay-healthy-in-old-age-heres-their-secret/
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October 13, 2021 10:11am
- miltonF
  
  It’s because they didn’t try to restrict the virus. All these lockdowns and restrictions, mandates etc only serve to prolong the madness.
  
  There’s a common reply that I’ve heard from remote/isolated communities such as the Amish and others in Africa. When asked why they do not appear to have any covid infections, they respond – “that is because we do not have TV or internet”
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:41am
  - Sacha
    
    MiltonF: today, people who live rurally are being targeted for their low vaccine uptake.
    Most of us live in small groups and don’t go to crowded pubs or concerts.
    We live outside in the fresh air, with the sun and wind. Early to bed and early to rise, and so on.
    We only go to town when we need supplies. (I last went to the supermarket/Farmlands/vet on the 4th October). I guess it could be called self-isolation.
    Most country people have a ‘personal zone’ when meeting with friends – they stand a metre or two apart and only get closer when they are well known to each other.
    I’d put us in with the Amish. We are healthy folks, mostly at risk from the vaccinated shedders.
    
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    October 13, 2021 1:34pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  average age of Amish is low and they have low rates of obesity, heart issues and diabetes so covid didn’t kill many of them – they have huge fertility (5-6). Their population is nearing half a million and has doubled since 2000.
  
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  October 13, 2021 5:04pm
Tony Stuart

Remember back in 2018 when Jacinda Ardern told us we were being “fleeced at the petrol pumps”, and ordered the Commerce Commission to investigate?

https://www.driven.co.nz/news/fleeced-at-the-pump-pm-takes-on-oil-firms-bp-z-respond/

I wonder what her reaction to this news is going to be:

It has never been more expensive to fill up your tank in New Zealand.

The team behind fuel price tracking app Gaspy noted this week that the national average price for 91 octane petrol currently sits at $2.39.

This is up slightly on the record highs previously seen in the second half of 2018.

Many service stations around the country are now charging more than $2.50 per litre of fuel, adding pressure on Kiwis who are already facing rising costs elsewhere.

AA motoring affairs general manager Mike Noon told RNZ that small businesses and tourism and hospitality workers were also being affected by the price rises.

“I think it’s a really bad time,” Noon said.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/nz-fuel-prices-hit-record-high-gaspy-data/N7LP737PTLLKTWWRT5PPWLG26A/#

We had a bit of a grace period early last year when the world was in lockdown, and fuel prices dropped significantly. But in the last couple of months especially, they’ve risen with a vengeance.

Not all of us can afford to change to hybrids or EV’s, and for many, they don’t meet our needs in any event. It’s a real double-whammy for those who have faced income drops in recent months, and those who are already battling to make ends meet.

High fuel prices are going to put further pressure on inflation, at a time when global supply issues have seen prices go up, and the Reserve Bank identify inflation as a red flag for the economy, and signal further interest rate rises in coming months. That’s not good news, especially for businesses who have been forced to borrow to meet day-to-day expenses during an extended period of reduced income.

It should be noted that most of the responsibility for the latest price rises in fuel lie with OPEC, who have failed to ramp up supply to meet increased demand for oil. But the PM made petrol prices her problem in 2018, then did nothing to rein the oil companies in. Is she going to intervene again, or do we just have to get used to more pain at the pump?
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October 13, 2021 10:16am
- Jack5
  
  Petrol prices will likely get worse.
  
  World oil prices are surging, and will come under more pressure as the natural gas shortage in the coming northern winter will see some electricity generators switching from gas fuel to oil.
  
  Add to this any pressure on the NZ dollar, and ouch!
  
  The Government could help because such a large portion of our petrol price is tax. The original motivation, financing roads, has been joined by Green motivation to eliminate petrol-driven cars.
  
  https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/12/sharp-surge-in-energy-prices-threatens-economic-recovery-and-is-already-slowing-growth.html
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:38am
  - kevn
    
    @Jack5… green shaw has the answer. You WILL be driving 20% less.
    
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    October 13, 2021 10:54am
- Maggie Pie
  
  My partner has a vested interest in this.
  He was saying once the Ampol takeover of ‘Z Energy’ is approved, they have indicated Auckland and other areas of the motu, may see dramatic price reductions in the price of fuel due to economies of scale.
  
  Not sure if Tui are still doing that billboard campaign?
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:57am
  - kevn
    
    @Maggie… The perils of a thirsty Euro.
    It used to be called The Gull Effect. Now to be The Ampol Effect?
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:53am
  - Jack5
    
    Your partner should fasten his seat belt, Maggie.
    
    Some extremists are even suggesting that, if the Covid aftermath causes hyper-inflation, oil prices could double, breaking $US180.
    
    That goes too far. I doubt there will be hyper-inflation, but at the supermarket you can see inflation taking off.
    
    $UShttps://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Hyperinflation-Could-Send-Oil-Prices-Above-180-137.html
    
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    October 13, 2021 11:58am
    - Jack5
      
      Sorry about the hyperlink. Drop the “$US”.
      It should be:
      
      https://oilprice.com/Energy/Oil-Prices/Hyperinflation-Could-Send-Oil-Prices-Above-180-137.html
      
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      October 13, 2021 12:11pm
- kowtow
  
  If northern hemisphere trends are anything to go by , we’re going to have a summer of discontent.
  
  Up there they have an energy crisis , a supply chain crisis and an inflation crisis , all intertwined .
  
  There’s no way we’ll escape it , it’s already biting down here , but it will get worse.
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:51am
  - Jack5
    
    The supply chain crisis is already affecting NZ, and the two mariners who post here have long been warning of the Covid-chaos in world shipping.
    
    The Telegraph today has an article that mentions the recent queue of 70 container ships backed up off Los Angeles. It reports that more than 60 container ships are now waiting off Hong Kong-Shenzhen.
    
    Container supply has been disrupted, too. At Britain’s biggest container port, Felixstowe, more than 50,000 empty containers have overwhelmed the port storage capacity.
    
    Britain’s Christmas shopping supplies are threatened.
    
    What’s happening in NZ? Perhaps Jacindarella, under the Pravda Project, could direct State-owned and subsidised media to report.
    
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    October 13, 2021 12:07pm
    - fightingtemeraire
      
      Jack 5
      
      The problem is there is no way that the Shipping Cos can ease the situation.
      
      They decided to GO BIG and raced to see who had the biggest Box Boat. 22k TEU now and there are only a few ports that can handle them so they cannot divert to other ports to discharge.
      
      With a 12K TEU box boat you could but you still needed a container berth. With a box boat with 40MT cranes you can go anywhere the port can take you.
      
      So there is NO flexibility in the system.
      
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      October 13, 2021 1:34pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Bring back windjammers.
        
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        October 13, 2021 2:53pm
      - Jack5
        
        Fightingtemeraire, the world race to giant container ships looks then to be similar to what happened with airliners.
        
        The world got 747 “jumbos” and A380s.
        
        Then the trend changed. The swing came to smaller, twin-engine airliners, which are more flexible.
        
        I’m a layman in shipping and airliners, but in a mountainous archipelago like New Zealand, with many earthquakes disrupting land links, the smaller container ships you mention would surely be better for both coastal cargo and exports?
        
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        October 13, 2021 8:42pm
- Paulus
  
  Petrol 95/98 is now just under $ 2.65 and am told could be $2.90 by Christmas but as am going nowhere not sure it matters.
  
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  October 13, 2021 1:31pm
WaveyDavey

As I like numbers, I did a bit of looking at ICU costs

Couldn’t find NZ numbers but in Aus an ICU bed costs $4,400 a day (all costs including staff)

Average Covid ICU stay is 8 days so a total of $35,000

Let’s take $1bn out our govts spend-up shall we:

We can either build half of a harbour bridge
or
Treat 28,500 ICU patients

Now given the doom-monger-in-chief’s ~~wild stab in the dark~~ projection of 60,000 icu cases just 2% of the money pissed up the various walls would have covered that cost

They have had 18 months to sort their shit out and all they ever say is “we’ll cross that bridge when we come to it”

Plus if you ever raise “but what if?” their response is ALWAYS “I refute that”
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October 13, 2021 10:43am
- cmm
  
  Cindy was never going to increase ICU beds. That would have shown that she didn’t fully believe her Eliminashun policy. You don’t want to jinx it do you by going and building more ICU beds!
  
  Like most things in life, averages are very skewed.
  
  That $4400 a day is likely the average cost of ICU beds. Sometimes ICU cases need a whole lot of machinery and care and probably cost $15-20k per day while most cost way less than $4k per day. For example, a colleague recently visited a family member in ICU that had 18 different drip machines administering drugs.
  
  I have absolutely no knowledge of ICU care for CV19 patients, but I suspect they’re towards the lower end of the spectrum. As soon as people have breathing intervention etc it is considered ICU.
  
  Thus I suspect that if average ICU costs are $4400 a day, then ICU costs for CV19 care are going to be $3k a day or less.
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:06am
- Yvette
  
  WaveyDavey – I did a bit of looking at ICU costs. Couldn’t find NZ numbers …
  
  Google ‘NZ ICU bed cost’
  Canterbury DHB –
  The average daily cost of a patient in our ICU wards is $5,500
  https://www.cdhb.health.nz/wp-content/uploads/93568aa4-cdhb-10089-daily-bed-cost-icu-cicu.pdf
  
  New Zealand doesn’t have enough ICU capacity, even without the effects of a pandemic
  A single ICU bed costs well in excess of one million dollars per year. [$2740 a day]
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/300374794/new-zealand-doesnt-have-enough-icu-capacity-even-without-the-effects-of-a-pandemic
  
  And, WaveyDavey – “As I like numbers” – what do you make of the following statistics from the NZ Health site daily press releases, where I have divided the number of tests by the number of cases to give a percentage then multiplied that by 1,000 to give a constant of cases supposedly per 1,000, which is shown in square brackets.
  
  12 October 2021
  Number of new community cases*: 43 : Auckland (40); Waikato (3)
  Tests processed in Auckland (last 24 hours): 13,981 [2.86]
  Cases to be epidemiologically linked: 19
  
  11 October 2021
  Number of new community cases: 35
  Location of new community cases: Auckland (35)
  Tests processed in Auckland (last 24 hours): 6,916 [5.06]
  Cases to be epidemiologically linked: 21
  
  10 October 2021
  There are 60 new community cases today,
  56 in Auckland; 3 in Waikato and 1 in the Bay of Plenty.
  Tests processed in Auckland (last 24 hours): 7,071 [7.92]
  Cases to be epidemiologically linked: 19
  
  09 October 2021
  Number of new community cases: 34 : Auckland (31) Waikato (3)
  Tests processed in Auckland (last 24 hours): 10,568 [2.93]
  Cases to be epidemiologically linked: 11 of today’s 34 cases
  
  So you see 09 October with 31 Auckland cases is slightly higher [2.93] per 1,000 than 12 October with 40 Auckland cases [2.86] per 1,000 – as just one example. Or 11 October, 35 cases is [5.06] so well above 12 October, 40 cases but [2.86] per 1,000
  Explain that, and why we don’t need some new way of evaluating the true significance of health statistics?
  
  and – A United Nations worker from Fiji who was medically evacuated to New Zealand with Covid-19 in July will be discharged from hospital, 76 days after she was admitted at a “critical stage”.
  A request for the woman, a worker with the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP), to be transferred and treated in New Zealand was initially declined for “capacity reasons”, but the medivac flight went ahead on July 29.
  The patient arrived in Auckland in a Skyline Aviation jet and was taken to Middlemore Hospital by ambulance.
  Last week, Stuff reported, the woman was in a stable condition, out of intensive care and no longer had Covid-19.
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300428470/covid19-un-worker-medivaced-to-nz-to-be-discharged-from-hospital-76-days-later
  
  So did she spend up to 69 days in ICU?
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:25am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    I’m really not sure what your point is with the numbers tbh
    
    So an icu bed costs $1m a year? $1bn is 1,000 of those
    
    My point was that for a relatively small outlay in terms of the amount that the govt has spent they could have readied the health system, both for today and for the future
    
    They had a year and half to do this.
    
    No ICU nurses you say? Then recruit from overseas, plenty would give their eye-teeth to emigrate to NZ – there used to be recruitment fairs for exactly that in the UK
    
    I mean FGS, you could hire them, give them citizenship and give them a tied-house rent-free and it would still be cost-effective
    
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    October 13, 2021 12:55pm
    - Sofia
      
      WaveyDavey – I’m really not sure what your point is with the numbers tbh
      
      Sorry, you said you “like numbers” –
      so I though you may find interest in daily cases numbers – in proportion to the test totals that yeld them, multiplied by a thousand to give cases per 1,000 – in that 40 Auckland cases (Oct 12) seem to be 5 more than the day before (Oct 11) with 35.
      But Oct 12, although a higher case number, 40, was 2.86 per 1,000, so nearly half Oct 11, with a lesser total of 35 but higher 5.06 per 1,000.
      This may not be expressed that well, but there is something up the chute with just spouting daily numbers from the Podium of Truth and not accounting for drastically varying test totals each day.
      Like 13,981 in Auckland on Oct 12 but 6,916 same place on Oct 11.
      
      It’s nuts – but not as silly as encouraging a nation to strive for a goal in vaccinations, but not saying what that goal is, or even admitting that if 100% of those eligible get vaccinated, it is still only 84% of the population.
      That IS nuts.
      
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      October 13, 2021 4:01pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        I’m still not sure what it is that you’re trying to tell me
        
        Testing in NZ is a bit of a joke and effectively means SFA
        
        I don’t care about the numbers of positives, the only true measure is hospitalisations and deaths
        
        Test results are only there to frighten the children or to self-congratulate
        
        The reason testing is a joke in NZ is because of what happens if you (a) take a test – hide away for x days or (b) test positive and get sent to the plague pit to mingle with the ferals
        
        Here’s what I, and everybody else I know would do:
        
        1. I’ve got a sniffle/symptoms – I’ll stay at home and keep myself to myself. I’m only calling someone if I get properly ill
        
        1. Govt say because of where I live I must get tested – GFY I’m not off to the bloody Jet Park when I don’t feel unwell
        
        Now, as I say, everyone I know feels exactly the same way. How much of the rest of theNZ public feels the same way?
        
        It renders test numbers virtually meaningless.
        
        60 +ve cases toady – my money’s in somewhere between 600 and 6,000 in the community asymptomatic – if Delta is as contagious as we’ve been told that has to be the realistic number
        
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        October 13, 2021 7:44pm
cmm

Why is attempted murder treated differently from murder?

In both cases the offender did the same thing: tried to murder someone. In one case they were successful and the other they were not. The only difference is really luck.

So it is just luck that gets the criminal a maximum of LWOP or 14 years.

Consider two scenarios that start out the same and end up with different outcomes:
* Fred gets into an argument with Jim. Fred pulls out a knife, stabs Jim twice in the chest, then runs off. The incident is seen by many witnesses.
Now the story lines diverge:

A) One of the people observing the situation is a trained paramedic who carries a field first aid kit in his backpack. He starts to treat Jim within seconds. Someone calls an ambulance which is there in two minutes. 10 minutes after the stabbing Jim is in hospital. First class medical team. Jim survives.

B) There are no paramedics on the scene – just panicky people. After 2 minutes someone thinks to phone for the ambulance. It gets stuck in traffic and ends up getting there after 20 minutes. Jim dies as they trundle him in at the hospital.

In both cases, Fred did exactly the same thing, so why should he face different outcomes based on luck or the skill of the people that handle his victims?

No I say, murder and attempted murder should be treated the same: attempted murder should have the same penalties as murder.

Debate.
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October 13, 2021 10:57am
- Libertarians are right
  
  But as Sideshow Bob said – you don’t get an Oscar for attempted acting!
  
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  October 13, 2021 11:49am
- Harriet
  
  I too have often wondered about the ‘golden hour’ on crime stats — as you suggest, those that don’t die aren’t included under ‘almost murdered’ but under ‘serious assault’ —- something that is not 100% honest.
  
  Police are answerable to the government of the day – not to the general public of the day – and funding of police seems to be the main issue —- which is a travesty given who the victims generally are.
  
  3 2
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  October 13, 2021 12:59pm
  - cmm
    
    The golden hour is also part of the reason our road toll has decreased over time.
    
    Of course there have been massive improvements in vehicle safety features, but advances in trauma handling have also lead to far more people surviving crashes that would have killed people 50 years ago.
    
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    October 13, 2021 1:46pm
Andrei

Climate Change Minister James Shaw announces the Government has released its draft carbon-cutting ideas to the public, so everyone can have a say.

So how exactly do you take three toddlers to play group on a E-Bike James Shaw?

Our MPs live in a world of their own and are utterly clueless when it comes to how real people live or what their needs are.
24 2
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October 13, 2021 11:18am
- 70andstilllearning
  
  From another source (ZB): “getting people to cut their car use by a fifth”
  Hell I can do 2/5th easy – swap my 2020 odometer with my spare 1970 version – numbers never lie. 🙂
  
  7 1
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  October 13, 2021 11:44am
- graham
  
  So how exactly do you take three toddlers to play group on a E-Bike James Shaw?
  
  And when they get older, you’re doing the after-school runs – taking them to rugby or netball practice, guitar lessons, the rugby/netball game on Saturday mornings – and with three of them, you’ll almost certainly find they’re playing different grades at different locations.
  
  Or it’s your turn to take them and their friends to the mall (or where-ever it is kids like to hang out these days – mine are grown up now). Then there’s the runs to the doctor for the fevers, or A&E with a broken arm.
  
  You’re completely correct, our MPs really don’t have a clue about how everyday people live.
  
  9 2
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  October 13, 2021 12:26pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It must be obvious to everyone by now that every suburban family must have at least two vehicles, one being at least a 6-seater and the other a 4WD or truck.
    
    4 10
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    October 13, 2021 2:49pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RevWUcFx144

Chinese President Xi Jinping Vs Chinese Vice President Wang Qishan.

Wang Qishan is no ordinary official and if Xi has to crack down on him, it really shows that the Chinese President fears a coup attempt by his deputy. Watch the video, to know more. [6:46]
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October 13, 2021 11:21am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0VeRgFGN2Y

EU Countries Abandon Macron.

As UK and France battle over fisheries, EU countries have decided not to fully support Macron as they have other priorities including the NI Protocol negotiations. [3:20. I wonder if Teacher’s Pet likes chocolate fish?]
7 2
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October 13, 2021 11:21am
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/wIkq9GUfVuI/

Biden’s Polls Implode as Majority Believe He Cheated!

Bumblin’ Biden’s poll numbers are absolutely imploding as a new poll shows that the majority of voters believe the Democrats cheated in November! In this video, we’re going to look at Biden’s latest polling nightmare, we’re going to see how a clear majority of likely voters believed that cheating was most likely involved in his win, and stick with me to the end of this video where I’ll reveal how Democrats are growing more and more panicked as even left wing pundits are admitting that they’re about to get slaughtered at the polls. [8:38 Lets go Brandon.]
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October 13, 2021 11:22am
- Inandout
  
  curry, if anyone thought that TDS was an insurmountable condition may have to reconsider. Joe is losing it big time; poor bastard.
  
  10 3
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  October 13, 2021 11:33am
  - curry4me
    
    Inandout: Kabul Joe deserves every misfortune that happens to him. Ditto for the rest of the Dems.
    
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    October 13, 2021 9:34pm
- kevn
  
  @curry… They get biden we got arden.
  
  9 3
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  October 13, 2021 11:51am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    lets go Andon?
    
    1 0
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    October 13, 2021 5:07pm
    - curry4me
      
      UrbanNeocolonialist: Works for me.
      
      0 0
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      October 13, 2021 9:36pm
  - curry4me
    
    kevn: Yeah, both countries have their misfortunes.
    
    0 0
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    October 13, 2021 9:35pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Instead of expecting people to an 8-minute video, why not summarise the polls you to which you refer, and explain what you think they mean?
  
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  October 13, 2021 2:46pm
Fletch

[KB does not host this type of misinformation and fear material – Mod]
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October 13, 2021 12:07pm
- Fletch
  
  Except it isn’t misinformation. All the references are linked under the video straight from Pfizer, Moderna, Astra Zenica and J&J as regarding trials, control groups, placebos etc.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-i2iHtI6ccg
  
  There is nothing unfactual in the video.
  
  12 6
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  October 13, 2021 12:57pm
  - dcrane
    
    I’m glad Kiwiblog has left it up. Seems like a fair enough, intelligent video, despite the overly dramatic intro sequence which they would have done well to omit.
    
    2 5
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    October 13, 2021 1:59pm
70andstilllearning

From Stats NZ today:
Food price index: September 2021

Monthly change
Food prices rose 0.5 percent in September 2021. After seasonal adjustment, they were up 0.9 percent.

In September 2021 compared with August 2021:

fruit and vegetable prices fell 1.5 percent (up 2.3 percent after seasonal adjustment)
meat, poultry, and fish prices rose 1.8 percent
grocery food prices rose 0.8 percent (up 0.7 percent after seasonal adjustment)
non-alcoholic beverage prices rose 1.2 percent
restaurant meals and ready-to-eat food prices rose 0.2 percent.

Annual change
Food prices increased 4.0 percent in the year ended September 2021.

In September 2021 compared with September 2020:

fruit and vegetable prices increased 9.3 percent
meat, poultry, and fish prices increased 3.2 percent
grocery food prices increased 2.9 percent
non-alcoholic beverage prices increased 1.1 percent
restaurant meals and ready-to-eat food prices increased 4.6 percent.

https://www.stats.govt.nz/information-releases/food-price-index-september-2021

Wondered where my $s were going!
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October 13, 2021 12:08pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Seems to be happening across the west at the same time. Global shortages on everything.
  
  Surely just coincidence..
  
  https://twitter.com/joshdcaplan/status/1447993677561929735
  
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  October 13, 2021 12:50pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Seems those the other side of the ditch might be a bit happier than this side.
  
  https://www.westpac.com.au/content/dam/public/wbc/documents/pdf/aw/economics-research/er20211013BullConsumerSentiment.pdf
  
  “The Westpac-Melbourne Institute Index of Consumer Sentiment decreased by 1.5% to 104.6 in October from 106.2 in September.
  Despite both Sydney and Melbourne remaining in lock down throughout the last month consumers are relatively upbeat.
  At 104.6 there continues to be a clear majority of optimists nationally with little difference in the state readings – NSW (103.4); Victoria (105.4); Queensland (105.3) and Western Australia (105.4) all show similar majorities of optimists. This is
  despite a sharp contrast between the lock down status of NSW/Victoria and Queensland/Western Australia.”
  The next para of the report also mentions 1st jab rates for NSW/Vic – 90+%/85 %
  
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  October 13, 2021 1:20pm
Maggie Pie

When James met Greta….

https://twitter.com/Reuters/status/1448010582767161350

“I’ll have what she’s having” 😛
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October 13, 2021 12:55pm
Stu2

An update on first doses, to Oct 12th

Total first doses – 3481k
June 2021 popn over 12 – 4.347m
90% target – 3.912m
Gap – 431k
Average first doses per day for the last week – 16.8k

Time to 90 %
8k per day from now – 7.7 weeks
9k per day from now – 6.8 weeks
10k per day from now – 6.2 weeks

Assuming enough people are willing
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October 13, 2021 2:05pm
- Cinematic
  
  What happens at 90%?
  
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  October 13, 2021 3:19pm
  - Stu2
    
    Frantic efforts to get the outstanding second doses done
    
    2 0
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    October 13, 2021 4:07pm
  - dcrane
    
    Establishment of new goal posts.
    
    11 1
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    October 13, 2021 4:37pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Is the correct answer
      
      (a) we won’t get to 90%
      (b) when/if we begin to close-in on it ~450,000 5-12yo’s will be added to the target
      Then comes
      (c) Everyone needs a booster
      
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      October 13, 2021 10:29pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Pfizer successfully lobbies government to vaccinate infants, household pets, livestock, babies in utero, trout, sparrows. Anything really, just so they have time cook up the next potion to be first tested on Polish orphans.
    
    2 2
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    October 13, 2021 9:47pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

The World is fucked. Get a load of this shit.
https://www.dailywire.com/news/superman-now-bisexual-dont-need-another-straight-white-savior-writer-says?
11 4
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October 13, 2021 2:21pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Batman and Robin were always quite clearly having some kind of homoerotic association, so why can’t Superman explore another facet of his sexuality?
  But, more importantly, why do you care?
  
  7 15
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  October 13, 2021 2:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Uptick Mike. But who is ‘Robin?’ Don’t see a ‘Robin’ on KB.
    You obviously care deeply – or you would not have responded.
    All gays on KB just go kiss kiss
    
    3 6
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    October 13, 2021 4:10pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Not all heroes wear capes.
      
      I’m sure milkey probably gets round in his undies most of the time 😛
      
      9 1
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      October 13, 2021 4:30pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yes Maggie, there is always something round in my undies. Is that not usual at the Otahuhu Tennis Club?
        
        4 4
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        October 13, 2021 5:17pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    My concern for you as a person, Steve, prompted by questions. I’m worried that you got so upset about this harmless triviality that you had to express your shock and outrage on Kiwiblog. It’s not very healthy to get so angry at things that don’t affect you.
    
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    October 13, 2021 5:21pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION…

I see where South Australia has just made ‘Stealthing’ a crime.

Those found guilty face a maximum sentence of life-in-prison.

Should we not be going down the same route here?
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October 13, 2021 2:38pm
- Cinematic
  
  Seem a little obsessed with this kinda stuff MP.
  
  2 4
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  October 13, 2021 3:18pm
- dcrane
  
  bizarre downticking pattern today
  
  1 4
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  October 13, 2021 4:36pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  We already have
  
  In NZ stealthing is classed as rape
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/wellington-man-convicted-of-rape-after-stealthing-removing-the-condom-during-sex/VAKHALYXYPMLPHJA5BTXRBLLBA/
  
  Funny, it’s supported by the same kind of people who think St Julian of Assange shouldn’t have been questioned over exactly that
  
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  October 13, 2021 10:33pm
Tony Stuart

Seen this story Maggie Pie?

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/pauline-hannas-death-escort-madison-ashton-releases-more-allegations-over-philip-polkinghornes-divorce-claims/
7 1
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October 13, 2021 3:34pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Yep…one of the girls from tennis keeps us in touch.
  She knows Phil’s barber.
  
  6 2
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  October 13, 2021 3:38pm
  - H. Upmann
    
    Why on earth would he have a barber?
    
    2 0
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    October 13, 2021 4:43pm
- All_on_Red
  
  Pauline spending $20 million on equipment which wasn’t fit for purpose was horrendously negligent.
  The consequences and embarrassment must have been huge.
  Was it suicide?
  
  3 0
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  October 13, 2021 4:29pm
Liberal Cliche

Keep it coming vaxtards, you want to play the us vs them game lets do it…See how long your system holds up.

“An unvaccinated school board chairman resigned just moments after the Government made Covid-19 immunisation mandatory for education workers.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-christchurch-school-board-chair-trevor-mcintyre-resigns-after-jab-made-mandatory-for-education-workers/ITCZJMJKFHIYBT4IBKWFQ2NB7A/

Good man, never sell your soul for a jelly roll.
17 2
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October 13, 2021 3:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Fuck them
  
  9 3
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  October 13, 2021 4:12pm
- dcrane
  
  One of the Trevs!
  
  2 2
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  October 13, 2021 4:35pm
Maggie Pie

I wonder if Chloe might actually be an advocate for the ‘Death Penalty’?

Indicates she would like to see Prisons abolished altogether!

https://twitter.com/_chloeswarbrick/status/1448098668620435468

One of the girls from tennis meet her at a mutual friend’s birthday-bash.
Reckoned she was a bit of a strange bird.
Just saying.
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October 13, 2021 4:17pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Hilarious, her answer to “What is your idea for addressing crime Chloe?” Is a link to a reformative justice pdf called “by Maori for Maori”
  
  Therefore implying crime is (correctly) a mostly Maori issue.
  
  These commies self own so easily.
  
  8 2
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  October 13, 2021 4:28pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Is crime mostly a ‘Maori issue’ in the whole world, or just here in Aotearoa?
    
    2 1
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    October 13, 2021 5:33pm
    - graham
      
      Read page 12, section headed “The system is failing Māori”, and page 13, section headed “The system fails to meet diverse needs”.
      
      Then tell us what you think.
      
      7 1
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      October 13, 2021 6:47pm
- graham
  
  I see in answer to the question “how do we address crime” she points to this “beautiful, impeccably researched report”:
  
  https://www.justice.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Publications/turuki-turuki.pdf
  
  Called “Turuki! Turuki!” (no idea what that means) it’s 74 pages of the sort of waffle that sadly we’ve all come to expect. The failures of Aotearoa New Zealand’s criminal justice system are all due to racism and colonisation, and of course completely fails to meet our Treaty obligations.
  
  Apparently everything can be fixed by:
  – establishing a Mana Ōrite (equal power) governance model under which Māori and Crown agencies share in justice sector decision-making
  – transferring power and resources to Māori communities so they can design and develop Māori-led responses to offending, and to tamariki and whānau wellbeing
  – making tikanga Māori and te ao Māori values central to the operation of the justice system
  – and, of course, legalising cannabis
  
  * sigh … *
  
  All I can say is, thank f*** she’ll never be in a position to make this happen.
  
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  October 13, 2021 5:03pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    turuki – to grow upwards (like a tree)
    
    1 0
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    October 13, 2021 8:28pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      So, she advocates branching out then…?
      
      0 0
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      October 13, 2021 11:46pm
Cinematic

I see Baker now warning elected politicians as if he’s some sort of overlord. Can’t wait for the guy to be stuffed back into his office at whatever fifth rate University he comes from.
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October 13, 2021 4:26pm
- krazykiwi
  
  It’s Otago Uni. Ranked 151st in 2018 it has dropped to 194th today. So yes, third rate and deteriorating.
  
  2 2
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  October 13, 2021 9:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Given the amount we spend on the seven universities in New Zealand, how many of them should be in the top 150?
    
    1 1
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    October 14, 2021 5:59am
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      What’s it got to do with how much we spend or is that the socialist default position?
      
      0 0
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      October 17, 2021 4:48pm
Stu2

Look to be a lot of growth to come in daily cases.
Have a look at the trajectory on the first graph here.

https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/13-10-2021/the-spinoff-covid-tracker/
2 2
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October 13, 2021 4:35pm
ecco

Labour’s internal polling must be indicating that they are totally tanking, by the looks of things. Ardern’s sending out Robertson and Hipkins to do all her bidding at the moment. All the about face/panic stations stuff. Hipkins just indicating to HDPA on the Drive show a total about face on Miq and considering home isolation now. About bloody time. How ridiculous is it that they are considering home isolation for covid positives yet carrying on with Miq of vaccinated people?

Hipkins sounds totally shattered. I’d say he’s about to hit the wall from being under the pump for so long and having to lie so much. And he’s the minister of education as well. That Ardern’s a bit short on the ground with talent would be an understatement. Anyway I’d say Labour is about to reach a tipping point with their covid response and totally implode very shortly. Their actions will be all over the show soon. Even more than we’ve seen of late, if that were possible.
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October 13, 2021 5:27pm
- Stu2
  
  At least we were spared a long confusing bemusing repetitive explanation of level 3B (or is it 3.2).
  
  The cases are going to preclude any further fiddling in Auckland, vaccination is the only route out
  
  2 0
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  October 13, 2021 5:36pm
  - PeeJay
    
    I’m still not totally convinced she won’t go to the locker and pull out the level 4 lockdown again when the numbers jump up. The ‘experts’ are already beating the drums on this and she usually follows after a few days. Only question will be if she makes the rest of the country suffer or just Auckland!
    
    6 0
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    October 13, 2021 6:42pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Nah she knows it would kill her in the polls. The “experts’ will be chucked overboard when the polls turn 🙂
      
      13 0
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      October 13, 2021 7:10pm
  - dcrane
    
    Even if we get to 100% vaccinated, the way out is still going to require someone making the call to accept dramatic increases in the numbers of covid cases and fair number of deaths, because the vaccinated still catch the disease and die from it at appreciable rates, especially after the antibodies begin to wane. No question they should make that decision, of course. I just fear they may be unwilling. This government has nothing to point to as far as accomplishments except the low covid death tally.
    
    5 1
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    October 13, 2021 7:44pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Ardern has built a cult-like following driven by her manufactured neo-messianic credentials. Covid is going to harvest some people, and while most of the harvest will only slightly shorten lives, her brand won’t survive.
      
      4 1
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      October 13, 2021 9:33pm
greybeard

KFC giving free meals to be vaccinated: if I am already double-vaccinated can I turn up and get a free meal in exchange for yet another jab?
Which would be worse: a superfluous jab or a KFC meal?
10 1
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October 13, 2021 5:27pm
- fernglas
  
  There’s an irony in KFC giving away the very product which has contributed to so many people being so vulnerable to Covid. They would probably have achieved more for public health if they had refused to supply people with their food.
  
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  October 13, 2021 6:14pm
info@cruzpro.com

15 year old Jemima Gazley died today of brain cancer but not before she managed to raise over $500,000 for cancer research.

This young person displayed an amazing amount of courage in her final days and I am saddened by her passing.
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October 13, 2021 6:48pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Indeed. Respect.
  
  9 0
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  October 13, 2021 7:09pm
Benedict Yu

Yayyyyy we are saved

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126665837/covid19-kfc-dishing-up-free-chicken-to-vaccinated-kiwis
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October 13, 2021 7:08pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  From the article
  
  “On Monday, Hamiltonians queued outside McDonald’s Frankton to take advantage of a one-day deal offering a burger combo with a side of Pfizer.”
  
  jfc this is a cult.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:47pm
info@cruzpro.com

Northland locked down at level 3 at least until next Monday. This despite zero cases. Apparently because one individual refuses to cooperate and tell authorities her whereabouts while traveling up here.
3 0
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October 13, 2021 8:29pm
- fernglas
  
  They will not identify her (and therefore give contacts the opportunity to come forward).
  Which has the greater social utility, the privacy of this individual, or the public and economic health of the entire country?
  Gosh, that’s a tough one. Thank God we have the Government making these big calls.
  
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  October 13, 2021 9:12pm

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