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October 16, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 16 October 2021

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General Debate

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PhilBest

This was referred to yesterday on KB but not linked to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeVy7jQoz0

Everyone should watch it and decide for themselves if it is “misinformation” and whether these doctors are credible or not. At least it is still up on YouTube
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October 16, 2021 8:01am
- -D
  
  Ashley Bloomfield with Kim Hill just know referred to people “banging on” about Ivermectin.
  
  No wonder our COVID ‘toolbox’ has so few tools.
  
  Early treatment options are crucial.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:44am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    Ivermectin was removed from our toolbox along with other treatments so the experimental vaccines could legally be approved under emergency legislation. The FDA cannot approve a drug under such circumstances if there are existing treatments.
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:00am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    RNZ is a lost cause. Why you would give them oxygen by visiting their cesspool is beyond me. Do not feed these beasts. They must die.
    
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    October 17, 2021 1:51pm
- Chuck Bird
  
  It might be an idea to download it as an MP4 file.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:58am
  - PhilBest
    
    Dr Russell Malone in particular continues to drop bombs – he’s a true “once was an insider”and he sees mistakes and misjudgements rather than conspiracies. Like the assumption that the spike protein on its own, produced by the body’s cells in response to the mRNA jabs, would not be harmful. And indeed to most people, it would SEEM it isn’t (but who can say for sure about the longer term let alone with booster shots again and again).
    
    But it very definitely is the mechanism of the harms being reluctantly identified, exactly as predicted by numerous concerned research doctors early on. I say reluctantly identified, because as Dr Malone’s very first expressed concern put it, a treatment like mRNA with only minimal track record, and certainly no track record for “entire population” rollout, SHOULD have had its own events reporting and data collation system that was independent, pro-active, and transparent. Instead it has been left to pre-existing generic reporting systems that are manifestly inadequate for the purpose.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:20am
  - Sacha
    
    How do I download. I just have a MacBook Air.
    This video is available on other platforms.
    
    Bloomfield/Hill et al have an agenda based on lack of understanding of the complexities of viral infection. Their arrogance in dismissing someone like Pierre Kory or Bryan Tyson is almost unbelievable.
    As is the apparent lack of a protocol for the early treatment of symptoms of covid19 infection.
    We need to be able to start treatment immediately, not 5 days later when we can’t breathe if the pressure on hospital beds and ICU facilities is to be avoided.
    Everyone who is interested knows two things: boost the immune system, starting today; and have a supply of aspirin, and an antiviral. People talk about Ivermectin because it has been widely used and is proven by laboratory tests to knock the virus back. And, it’s cheap and could be easily sourced from India, where a lot of our generic drugs are manufactured now.
    If only the government would be pro-active in the interests of the people of New Zealand – that it isn’t, makes us wonder who is setting the agenda.
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:33am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      Sacha; “How do I download. I just have a MacBook Air. This video is available on other platforms.”
      
      You install a video-downloader application and use that.
      
      https://mac.eltima.com/top-video-downloaders.html
      
      If the video is on alternative platforms, no need to feed the giant filthy SJW internet leech by using it’s platform/s.
      
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      October 16, 2021 2:05pm
- dcrane
  
  Gobsmacking point comes about 10 minutes in when a psychiatrist points out a recent Brown University study stating that babies born since the pandemic have a 20 point IQ deficit due to their much more constrained environemnt of development – locked at home with only their parents to look at.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:50am
  - NZer In Exile
    
    As many high profile experts have pointed out, the cost of the lock-downs is yet to be properly accounted for. We already know the costs are varied and huge, but I think we will be horrified once the forensic audits have been completed.
    
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    October 16, 2021 3:22pm
- R
  
  Some valid and important points are raised by the medical experts in that discussion. The main one is that Covid is not a “Pandemic of the Unvaccinated”, but an “emergency of under-treatment”. We are not going to vaccinate our way out of Covid, for two main reasons. First, there are different strains of the virus. The virus mutates quicker than a new vaccine can be produced. The flu vaccine isn’t terribly effective, mainly because we are using an old vaccine for a new strain. Second, the Pfizer vaccine isn’t terribly effective as evidenced by the number of fully vaccinated people getting the virus. The vaccine was rushed into production with no long term data, or medium term data, to ascertain its effectiveness.
  
  Heather Gessling states in the video that most of her patients with Covid have been fully vaccinated. Vaccination is being used as a one size fits all and the be-all and end-all. That isn’t the right approach.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:57am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    The politicians painted themselves into a corner the vaccine is a rope ladder dropped from the ceiling cavity
    
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    October 16, 2021 12:12pm
  - mawm
    
    I think the comment about the flu vaccine was a comparison of using a vaccine that is not made for the delta variant with using an old flu vaccine as flu vaccines are made for a “predicted” mutation of the virus annually (which is accurate about 30% of the time).
    
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    October 16, 2021 12:12pm
  - surfing
    
    Almost all casualties are unvaccinated. Even The rare cases of vaccinated who die almost always have severe underlying conditions.
    
    Yet you have the temerity to claim it is the treatment that is at fault. Nothing to do with not being vaccinated.
    
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    October 16, 2021 12:33pm
    - burt
      
      Have you ever considered looking a bit further afield than main stream media for the statistics you believe?
      
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      October 16, 2021 8:54pm
- surfing
  
  What a load of nonsense.
  
  First name is Robert Malone…you can switch off right away as he is discredited. His colleagues are unimpressed, likely he has a huge chip on his shoulder and sour grapes as he believes he deserves more recognition for his work.
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:30pm
  - mhall
    
    Regardless of what you think about Malone, what do the other 7 experts have to gain from this? They appear to be genuinely concerned for their patients welfare. I’d expect that, given the “official” narrative, they’re sticking their necks out for no discernible personal gain.
    
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    October 16, 2021 3:52pm
    - ruraldoc
      
      Beware, they have a political agenda, belonging to a group know as ‘American Frontline Doctors’, closely linked to the far right group ‘tea party patriots’. They are also well known for their controversial views, conflicts of interest, and many of them have been discredited. To me the conversation leant heavily towards ‘come to my clinic, I’ll sort you out’. I can see how the video would be convincing, lots of half truths, mixed in with statements that have absolutely no evidence behind them.
      
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      October 19, 2021 10:41pm
mikenmildagain

Happy World Anaesthesia Day and Happy World Food Day!
What food make you unconscious the most rapidly?
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October 16, 2021 8:01am
- dubya
  
  Bread, served with circuses. As in the lunchtime daily political party broadcast.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:41am
- Simon
  
  Food in systems run by the far left. Killings fields Cambodia , Holomodor, North Korea during the 1990s, Great Leap Forward. Etc etc
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Like deliberate refusal to provide food supplies during a famine?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bengal_famine_of_1943
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:29am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Red wine on a warm sunny day
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:46am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  A frozen chicken to the head is quite effective.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:51am
  - alloytoo
    
    Likewise a frozen leg of lamb.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:31am
Maggy Wassilieff

A master class essay in how to spin bumbling incompetence as leadership

https://sciblogs.co.nz/covid-19/2021/10/15/why-jacinda-arderns-clumsy-leadership-response-to-delta-could-still-be-the-right-approach/
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October 16, 2021 8:03am
- Andrei
  
  That article needs to come with barf bags
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:06am
- Inandout
  
  Maggy, Massey..say no more. Our lala existence is in for a rude awakening when our debts are called in, there is no hiding from that fact.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:06am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  I’m starting to think that do you don’t have much time for the current labour leader. But you did admire Mike Moore, right?
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:07am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    It’s not about me, MMA.
    
    It’s never about me…
    No-one gives a stuffy-poo about me…
    Stay focused, son.
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:35am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Maggie. “Son?”, starting to sound like the midget from the Helensville swamps.
      I thought the article was thought provoking, takes a good leader to weather a rapidly changing storm.
      
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      October 16, 2021 8:47am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        Pity we don’t have a good leader then.
        
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        October 16, 2021 9:36am
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        starting to sound like the midget from the Helensville swamps.
        
        We’re both working-class kids; we probably lack some of the refinements of the middle-class woke folk.
        
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        October 16, 2021 1:44pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      But of course you comments are all about you, Maggy. Everyone’s comments are. I’m interest in New Zealand political history, so I like to find out the basis for individuals’ set biases for or against the blue or red team.
      
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      October 16, 2021 9:02am
      - Ed Snack
        
        Like to explain your adoration of St Jacinda then Mikey ? Is “Spin” the ultimate political virtue ?
        
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        October 16, 2021 11:19am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I’m happy to explain any of my comments, Ed. Could you give me an example of one of them expressing my ‘adoration’?
        
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        October 16, 2021 12:24pm
      - rouppe
        
        Mine was when John Denny, so called Dean at Bryant Hall in the 80’s, led the anti tour protests in Hamilton.
        
        He was public, and we’ll known to be associated with Waikato University halls.
        
        After the game was called off, he asked all the resident students to “help him” protect the halls from attack by pro tour rugby fans.
        
        Well the angry fans turned up for sure, but he’d slipped away to leave the 17 and 18 year old residents to bear the brunt of his actions. Many of us were injured.
        
        I’ve hated left wingers ever since, and not seen anything to make me change my mind.
        
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        October 16, 2021 12:31pm
      - Tom Hunter
        
        Mine was when John Denny, so called Dean at Bryant Hall in the 80’s, led the anti tour protests in Hamilton.
        
        Pity the Bryant Hall 50th was called off as I was looking forward to running into you!
        
        Luckily I went home that Saturday night after the game and did not catch up on all the news until I returned on Sunday. Tried to cheer up my anti-tour mates, who were all a bit glum, although I did berate them for giving Muldoon the perfect excuse for a “Lawnorder” election, which is exactly what happened.
        
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        October 16, 2021 2:11pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Who did you vote for in 1981, Tom?
        
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        October 16, 2021 3:15pm
  - pdm
    
    Mike Moore was at least upfront and likeable.
    
    Both of those attributes are missing from Miss Ardern – Winstons appointee.
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:50am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      Mike Moore was very able: he went on to become Director General of the World Trade Organisation.
      Mike was the calibre formerly expected in Labour Ministers, not kindy sandpit sweepers.
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:20am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Always seemed like an ideas man to me – some good, some okay, and some very flaky.
        
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        October 16, 2021 10:36am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I’ll read it later when I am drinking. I’m off for a bacon sandwich and a trip to Mitre 10. ?
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:09am
  - amospicton
    
    You’ll need a double-shot coffee at least to get through the article Maggy refers to Benedict. Symptomatic of the nonsense coming out of our universities.
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:11am
  - Taieri
    
    I’m off for a bacon sandwich
    —————
    
    Vegan bacon I trust…
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:24am
    - alloytoo
      
      I dunno,
      
      I’m not entirely sure vegans are suitable for human consumption.
      
      I’m sure the the bacon would be very salty and sour.
      
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      October 16, 2021 11:34am
- krazykiwi
  
  Apparently Ardern ‘engages deeply with scientific evidence’.
  
  My God. She would only recognise scientific evidence if it contained short words.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:55am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    She hides it well. She literally conflated the efficacy of the Covid vaccines to the MMR vaccines.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:13am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Exactly. We had early warning signs of her struggling with difficult topics: She didn’t know what GDP was.
      
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      October 16, 2021 9:47am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It’s a treatment for lymphoma.
        
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        October 16, 2021 10:39am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I struggle with it, the decoding of frequent jargon, the tight academic expression, numerous charts, Latin names… I’m pleased its easy peasy for the PM. Perhaps she could point out to her advisers their errors.
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:26am
- PhilBest
  
  Will they EVER admit that Sweden’s “controversial” approach “might have been the right one”? With the benefit of hindsight of 2 years; 10 years; or decades?
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:22am
- JackRabbit
  
  Took one look and saw:
  
  “Changing games require changing the rules.
  There is only one word you need to know and it’s vaccination.”
  
  Read no further. Absolute BS, constructed from a random sentence generator.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:51am
- maggiemay
  
  It looks like the photo accompanying that article has changed. The initial photo i saw last night had the PM way closer than 2m leaning into the confined car space who had 3 people in the front seat, at a drive through vacination centre. She did have a mask on and those areas are level 2.
  I took a screen shot because i thought it bad practice considering the people at the centre would not be fully vacinated and the PM is seeing lots of people around areas that have low vax rates and supposedly high risk.
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:15am
  - maggiemay
    
    Oh – apologies. Differnt website. It hasnt changed on Stuff. Still poor practice by the pm.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:21am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  I’m sorry, but she is a University lecturer. She wouldn’t know “leadership” if it was a turd and dropped from the sky onto her head.
  Not withstanding this, and to flesh out the story, she is also followed in the footsteps of many Labour party MP’s, that being President of Students Association and Unionist|organiser (in her case EPMU, so a mate of Little’s for sure). And for the rest of her life, she’s snuffled at the taxpayer trough.
  Even if you believed a lecturer can give in depth commentary on real leadership, there’s the fact that she will be falling over to paint Ardern in a good light.
  And before anyone has a cow about my comments on lecturers and leadership, there has NEVER been a lifetime trougher|lecturer that can “teach” leadership. Management maybe, but certainly not leadership. And Ardern is no leader. She is a follower, and a low level one at that.
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:14pm
Yvette

Debbie Ngarewa-Packer – checkmate?
Maori leader calls New Zealand’s COVID-19 strategy a ‘death warrant’ for her people.
The co-leader of New Zealand’s Maori Party, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer, says the country’s new COVID-19 strategy amounts to a “death warrant” for Indigenous communities.

“When a majority of Maori are not vaccinated, then that effectively is perceived by us on the ground as signing a death warrant,” she told NPR’s All Things Considered. “We are an Indigenous people that have survived colonization and all that comes with it, so sadly, we have some of the worst health statistics.”
A study in the New Zealand Medical Journal found that due to increased rates of comorbidities in Maori and Pacific Islander communities, as well “structural bias and systemic racism” in the healthcare system, an 80-year-old white New Zealander had the same predicted risk of hospitalization from COVID-19 as a roughly 60-year-old Maori patient, and a roughly 55-year-old Pacific patient.
https://www.npr.org/2021/10/13/1045320600/maori-leader-calls-new-zealands-covid-19-strategy-a-death-warrant-for-her-people

The Treaty of Waitangi, in Article 3, the Crown promised to Māori the benefits of royal protection and full citizenship.
The protection offered currently to counter covid is the vaccination – two properly separated doses – and a few hygiene and social spacing rules.
Full citizenship not only involves rights but also responsibilities – in this case the responsibility, to oneself and taonga loved ones, to avail oneself of the vaccination – by free choice, since other conventions prevent its compulsory administration.

Some “nation’s first immigrant descendants” may die as a result of the natural immigration of the covid virus, and Maori may somehow seek Treaty Tribunal compensation for that, and cases of severe illness, but if they have not exercised their equal-status “British subject” right, but also the responsibility to oneself and iwi, to be vaccinated, there may no grounds of claim available to them.

It may be easier however to epidemiologically prove that those who, do not succumb to a “death warrant” aspect, but carry the infection to other members of the population, are under the Treaty Tribunal liable to some negative consequence – or the “Crown” is alternatively liable if it stops epidemiologically linking cases or does not store covid case blood samples to do so.

That the Treaty is really of no consequence in the matter of covid, raises the question, of course, is it ever of any consequence as a “living document” – or nothing beyond a bloody badly written historic real estate agreement, now superseded by other law, and past its Best By Date?
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October 16, 2021 8:03am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You have to wonder whether Debbie Ngarewa-Packer actually believes what she says.
  
  My question to her is what more does she want to lift vaccination rates in people of Maori ethnicity?
  
  Let’s flip things around. IIRC vaccination rates in people of Chinese ethnicity are about 98 percent. Is that because the health system is somehow biased heavily to confer privilege on Chinese people?, Anyone who suggested that as fact would be ridiculed.
  
  Honestly it is time for everyone to make fun of this person. It is the best response.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:40am
  - Tempist
    
    Asians: confounding the white privilege narrative since forever….
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:45am
    - sooty
      
      Does she just flap her gums to make a sound?
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:41am
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      Yes. This is true.
      All hail “East Asian” privilege.
      
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      October 16, 2021 5:50pm
  - Unity
    
    She forgets to mention that all Maori today have ‘other’ ancestry too. What is it about the Maori side that can have such dire consequences? Perhaps she should encourage them to elevate their ‘other’ side and then they will get through this!! (Sarc)
    
    Also, they are NOT indigenous so she can forget that one.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:40am
  - Stellaboxer
    
    My son asked me how the health system is racist as the last time he went into hospital ( Wellington) it was the most multi ethnic experience he had ever had in NZ. We’re all the different people ganging up on Maori?
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:12am
  - Taieri
    
    My question to her is what more does she want to lift vaccination rates in people of Maori ethnicity?
    —————–
    
    And my question to her is: what has she actually done personally as an MP to lift the said vaccination rates?
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:26am
  - Aunty
    
    What has Debbie Ngarewa-Packer specifically done to increase vaccination rates among ‘her’ vaccine-hesitant people?
    
    Specific examples, Debbie? Dates, places, times, people.
    
    Has she actually done anything? Has she even called for ‘her’ people to show up and get a shot?
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:28am
  - Tom Hunter
    
    I believe the term for Asians is White Adjacent Privilege. At least that’s the response Asian parents have got from the Woke brigades in the US.
    
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    October 16, 2021 2:15pm
    - Odakyu-sen
      
      “White Adjacent Privilege”
      
      I can are sure that an “Asian” person would consider such an expression to be hopelessly woke and very patronising.
      
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      October 16, 2021 5:52pm
- Cassandra
  
  Badly written real estate agreement is a very good definition of the Treaty of Waitangi. Maori have it in their own hands re Covid; nothing to do with the Treaty, just go and get the vaccine. Then change your diet and make sure your children go to school. Bingo!
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:40am
  - PhilBest
    
    It is worse than that: the truth is that they HAD PRIORITY right from the start. It is NOTHING to do with whitey and so called systemic racism if THEY FREAKIN’ DIDN’T TURN UP.
    
    Whitey needs to stop tolerating the systemic slanders.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:24am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori can be “vaccinated” on request.
  Debbie Ngarewa-Packer is close to promoting insurrection, Hey Poopoos are soon going to be all over the place.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:42am
- WaveyDavey
  
  So, reading the recent gobbledegook from the Maori Party, what is it they actually want?
  
  From what I can work out, they want the borders effectively closed forever, fewer “foreigners” – which seems to mean anyone but themselves, an unwelcoming space for European New Zealanders – hopefully driving them to leave, and anyone but themselves to pay for it
  
  Free houses for all Maori, free or subsidised food, healthcare, means of communication and travel, to speak a language that hardly anyone speaks, ownership of ALL natural resources, a veto by c16% (at the absolute most) of the population over anything they choose
  
  So to be able to do what they want, work as much or as little as they choose on the one hand while on the other hand have all possible access to the trappings of modern society (when THEY want it of course) while actually paying for nothing
  
  (a) they are no more vulnerable to Covid than anyone else in similar circumstances
  (b) Pacific people are far more “marginalised” than Maori
  (c) Pacific people have got their shit together and managed vaccination rates approaching those of the non-Maori and non-PI demographic – and don’t forget those also “marginalised” Asian communities are outstripping everyone
  
  These Victims-in-Perpetuity are pretty much beyond redemption
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:56am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Simply trying to bring people down to there level unfortunately.
    Fortunately Most People/Maori are not so guillable.
    Just a small selection of the Maori Lunatic Fringe will support them and there is only one way from here and is to be more divisive.
    One way spiral.
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:40am
- WaveyDavey
  
  If only it was a “death warrant” for her people
  
  “Her people” being the f*ckwits who vote for the MP
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:59am
  - Flossie
    
    What about her Other People? That is, the half of her provided by a white parent.
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:08am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      If they voted MP f*ck ’em
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:54am
- Scott
  
  I always find these pronouncements from leaders of the Maori party very annoying. First of all I disagree that there should be a Maori party. If they can start a Maori party can I start a whites only party?
  
  Secondly they always talk about “our people” as if they are distinct from everybody else. Does this mean that “our people” are not New Zealanders? Have we not shared this land for the best part of 200 years? Are we not all New Zealanders?
  
  What is it about having a few more Maori ancestors that means you are incapable of lining up and getting the vaccine? Is there no personal responsibility involved in this situation at all?
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:12am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    I think they’re meant to be annoying
    
    They like the attention that comes with their cos-playing
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:27am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Spot on Wavey they’re just professional Maori. The whole costume thing makes her look like something out of a Goldie painting and is supposed to. Very sad
      
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      October 16, 2021 11:16am
- doggone7
  
  Ngarewa-Packer says the government’s strategy is a death warrant. My perception in our region is the government is keen to have everyone vaccinated. My perception is that different iwi and health groups are busting their guts to have everyone informed and vaccinated.
  The ‘death warrant’ mob seems to be a different one, trying to convince people to not be vaccinated. If Ngarewa-Packer wants to make a difference, an immediate meaningful one, maybe that’s what she should look at.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:21am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The Treaty only promised rights of citizenship. It never promised health. Obesity, and the promotion of it, is endemic throughout Polynesia. It is highly likely to be genetic. That we mere Pake’s can do nothing about. Nor is it transmitted by colonialism. The settlers were generally frugal not chiefly gluttons.
  
  Maori were never promised greater health rights than Pakeha nor were they promised greater protection from wild virii. We are all stuck with the decisions that the govt makes as to the day to day management.
  
  We cannot have special provisions for Maori based on activist warriors. No longer can we even identify Maori. Are there actually any pure blooded Maori left in NZ? There are some genes but they are widely disbursed. Those people were quick to interbreed but now they are very severely intermingled. Time to stop this Maori nation nonsense.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:44am
NeverMindTheBollocks

Top tip: avoid live media today (except KB, of course!) if you want to steer clear of peak Vaxxinda.
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October 16, 2021 8:05am
- Cassandra
  
  Lovely day in the BoP, smell the coffee and avoid all media, as you so rightly say. Anyone needing this hysteria is, well, hysterical. Or stupid.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:42am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Even though I am double-vaxxed, I will be taking a social distancing approach today to all Super Saturday events. I’ll be in the garden this afternoon, and we have enough episodes of Season Four of Chicago Fire to watch on Netflix later in the day without needing to go to any channel showing the Vaxathon.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:46am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yeah, I’ll watch the Vaxxaflop right after I finish gnawing my own arm off.
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:59am
    - Brian McDonald
      
      Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
      Better than watching a “herd immunity” flop which would take decades.
      
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      October 16, 2021 9:41am
      - Taieri
        
        Better than watching a “herd immunity” flop which would take decades.
        —————–
        
        Had Covid-19 been treated the same as all previous respiratory system flu-like affliction pandemics we’d probably have achieved the herd immunity already…
        
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        October 16, 2021 10:31am
    - Michael Johnston
      
      Yes, it will be right up there with Vogon poetry when it comes to using autophagy as a survival technique.
      
      https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/45438-vogon-poetry-is-of-course-the-third-worst-in-the
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:14am
      - KevO'Brien
        
        I miss Vogon poetry. Could the Green Party provide readings?
        
        10 1
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        October 16, 2021 10:47am
      - JackRabbit
        
        @KevO’Brien
        
        They would need to learn to read first. 😉
        
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        October 16, 2021 10:55am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I am surprised the Govt didn’t hijack ALL TV channels and make it compulsory viewing.
    Remember Max Headroom? There’s a blast from the past
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:04am
    - alloytoo
      
      You have to tip your hat to the technical guys who have to produce a “show” on basically no notice.
      
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      October 16, 2021 9:15am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Can’t be any harder than the nonsense on play school TV 1 news
        
        14 1
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        October 16, 2021 10:16am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Compulsory viewing and a free shot? Sounds familiar …
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0BXbgwS8pDo
      
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      October 16, 2021 9:45am
      - JackRabbit
        
        MAtR,
        
        When the real outcomes of the Vaxathon become known, whenever the theme song is played in the future, it will have masses of survivors throwing up involuntarily.
        
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        October 16, 2021 11:01am
artemisia

In the Herald today, the story of a solo parent with 5 children who has applied for hundreds of rentals in the past 4 years. All but one unsuccessful.

Yes it is tough but her income in the hand is well above minimum wage and seems there are a lot of debts being repaid. Respect to her and the journalist putting the income and expenses numbers out there. Though notice no mention of significant additional funding if the household is renting (Accommodation Supplement, TAS, bond).

Hundreds of unsuccessful applications is a reflection of the reduced risks landlords are now willing to accept, due almost completely to recent government policies around tenant rights and tenure protection. And to a rental shortage in many locations. (Why is that do you suppose?) Between them, tenants perceived as risky – even though they may well not be – are not getting a look in. Many end up on the social housing waiting list (emphasis on waiting) that has nearly quadrupled in the past 4 years.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/searching-for-a-home-a-mothers-mission-to-find-somewhere-to-live-in-a-cruel-market/U6YFDW6RDVHP5J6OZFLO2H72EM/
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October 16, 2021 8:06am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Yeah, this line caught my eye
  
  “It’s heartbreaking, because it feels like I can’t provide for my children correctly,” she says.
  
  You don’t provide for them love, the taxpayers (or at least the only 13% that are net contributors) do
  
  You get subsidised by other people to pop-out your “little miracles” to (a) increase your benefits and (b) become another 5 (or more) of you in the future
  
  I can recommend listening to this for the baby-making machine
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rdu8VOWk3pg
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:04am
- Over40SingleMan
  
  The reporter should have spent 10 minutes ringing the long shopping list of motels and landlords this family has graced.
  It will quickly become clear that there is an imbedded entitled-feral-behavior that is a barrier to a stable habitat.
  There is more to the story than the odd carpet stain, appliances falling from walls, unwanted visitors and dogs!
  
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  October 16, 2021 5:55pm
Maggy Wassilieff

When socio-culture proponents meet science:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/14/climate-study-linking-early-maori-fires-to-antarctic-changes-sparks-controversy

“This idea of helicopter science – our research is not based in New Zealand … it’s based in Antarctica, and there are no indigenous inhabitants in Antarctica. So, I don’t think we would have done that any differently,” he said.

“In the scientific world [and] the scientific method, the response would be: if someone disagrees with our findings, they should write a paper and get it through peer review, or comment, and tell us what we did that was wrong … Whoever has the most solid arguments is who moves forward. That’s what the scientific method is all about. But this is not a science debate, I don’t think.”
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October 16, 2021 8:09am
- Cinematic
  
  Nonsense thinking has become so mainstream that it’s basically unavoidable these days. My head hurts.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  The Guardian did a good job of providing context lacking from the earlier reporting, don’t you think. The main surprise for me is this comment from one of the researchers:
  
  The burning emissions from New Zealand were comparable in the 16th century to what they were soon after European arrival in New Zealand,” McConnell says. “So we were surprised – we expected to see more of an impact from European arrival. And we did not.”
  
  Given the readily available existing data about the rapidity of forest clearance following Polynesian and the rapidity of burning the remaining forest soon after European arrival, why was this researcher surprised?
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:25am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Not being snarky mike, for a change, but their has been a multi-decade move to make the default position in education to be that colonists’ arrival made everything worse – you and I had a discussion about this the other day
    
    Now some of that is true – the devastation of the buffalo in North America for example and the diseases introduced to the indigenous population
    
    But you’ve spent 20-30 in academia hearing that claim repeated it’s unsurprising that a researcher would enter into that investigation presupposing that Europeans made NZ emissions worse
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:09am
  - Cinematic
    
    They were surprised because they expected to see more of an impact but didn’t.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:13am
  - Clyde
    
    When the East Polynesians arrived in NZ about the first thing they did was to set fire to the landscape. Science tells us (but of course not mumbo jumbo) that approximately 70% of NZ’s forests were burned. That is a massive fire. European burning was way less than East Polynesian burning. Along with the forests 33 species of birds were wiped out including the 11 species of moa. Now of course we are told ad infinitum that these East Polynesians were caring environmentalists. Total BS.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:15am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Along with Rapa Nui ( Eater Island). Same result basically.
      
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      October 16, 2021 11:21am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Your use of the very odd term ‘East Polynesians’ is in some ways a tell that your information will not be very accurate.
      
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      October 16, 2021 12:31pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        East Polynesians is not an odd term at all…
        
        If you read the literature on the human settlement pattern of Polynesia, you would know that most researchers distinguish the cultures of West & East Polynesia and the migration dates of arrival of peoples in East Polynesia.
        
        Investigating the origins of eastern Polynesians using genome-wide data from the Leeward Society Isles
        https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-20026-8
        
        https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-20026-8
        
        Human settlement of East Polynesia earlier, incremental, and coincident with prolonged South Pacific drought
        https://www.pnas.org/content/117/16/8813
        
        And there is little doubt nowadays that the first folks to settle NZ came from islands in East Polynesia.
        
        https://teara.govt.nz/en/pacific-migrations/page-4
        
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        October 16, 2021 4:40pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    So it looks like there is a difference in the fire dynamics between Polynesian burning of South Island forests (extensive East Coast and Central Otago) and NI forests (Parts of Northland-Auckland and East Coast NI) which lasted from 1300 until 1700. and the much shorter European clearance of NI and Southland forests which was from 1860 -1920.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:02am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Correct. But it appears some people want to play a game about who did the most damage to the environment here.
      
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      October 16, 2021 12:33pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Yes there are numerous articles in overseas publications on this.
  https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/06/science/maori-new-zealand-antarctica-ice.html
  
  I find it quite fascinating and proves Maori definately do have a link to Antarctica.//
  Quote,
  “McConnell says. “So we were surprised – we expected to see more of an impact from European arrival. And we did not.”
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:40am
  - Jack5
    
    That article linked to by Master Mariner spells out that New Zealand’s forests burned when Maori arrived in these islands about 1250.
    
    An earlier NY Times article linked under the article is also interesting. It contains a Maori call for “legal personhood” for Antarctica (similar to the Wanganui River).
    
    The international community is going to accept Antarctica as a legal person? No way.
    
    The authors of this second article are unaware that the Royal Society of NZ has decayed into a semi-scientific, activist-allied organisation.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:27am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Science is an embarrassment when it deals with facts.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:44am
- Nickc2
  
  I call BS on the Guardian article because in Antarctica, air emanates from the interior and moves outwards across the continent, it doesn’t travel directly from south to north. Instead, the direction of the air is deflected by the Earth’s rotation to form polar easterlies, meaning that the prevailing wind direction is from east to west across much of the continent.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:53am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Yes Sort of Nick2.
    I was suprised that ash particles could make the Fringes of Antarctica as well.
    
    Generally speaking you have the Polar Easterlies but things are a bit different at the poles with 5-8 km high zones and equator 10-18km? high. Outside of this then thing behave differently.
    
    So in my thinking it must of been one hell of a fire ( NZ on fire) for particles to settle.
    As you stated its to do with earths rotation and is known as the Corriolis effect.
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:50am
    - Nickc2
      
      TKS. Two Mainers can’t be that wrong eh?
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:57am
    - JackRabbit
      
      There have been many times in earth’s history where smoke and ash covered the skies, and recorded in the oral history of multiple lands.
      
      Unless ash is coded with DNA stating origin point and date of creation, it could have come from anywhere in the world and from any source.
      
      It is a pointless piece of science, full of assumptions.
      
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      October 16, 2021 11:12am
      - Nickc2
        
        Couldn’t agree more. However, if you have desires of claiming the Antarctic as your own and selling it off for resource mining/drilling, what does a little bit of truth-bending matter.
        
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        October 16, 2021 12:07pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    The 6 ice cores were from James Ross Island, right on the tip of the Antarctic peninsula……
    
    Check out the position of NZ in relation to the Peninsula…
    wind direction is correct if the Ash plume started travelling south (as it might in Summer).
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:13am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Yes, 24 hrs steam from Patagonia. Prevailing Winds normally Westerlies so ash particles would of probably transversed from NZ directly Westward to Antarctic peninsular before settling.
      As you said the high concentrations were on James Ross Is on peninsular and nothing closer further south which suggests this was the most Sly point for ash to settle.
      Incidently it would off accumulated snow / rain on fine particles and resulted in Heavy Snow falls during period particles were suspended in atmosphere.
      Interesting indeed
      
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      October 16, 2021 11:30am
amospicton

I’ll confess to visiting stuff and NZH to try and detect a change in mood. Like the proverbial economist I’ve found 37 of the last 2. Anyway, I was encouraged yesterday. I went to pick up a purchase from a beleaguered retailer and waiting in line with me were two tradies who were desperate to sound off against the government. Then I had a linked-in exchange with a family friend – female, late 20’s, educated and ambitious. Never discussed politics with her previously but demographically I would have thought an Ardernista. Wow was I wrong – it became a full-on vent against the sheer incompetence of the govt. There is hope people!
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October 16, 2021 8:10am
- Inandout
  
  amo, yes in general the serial Labour voters I used to find are now switching their views. My elderly neighbour though is Labour to his death, won’t hear a word against Jacinda and just says ‘oh, well’ when his hospital waiting list keeps getting lengthened. I just hope he doesn’t die waiting.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:50am
- Flossie
  
  I had thought I’d picked up a bit of an anti Jacinda vibe too. Until I saw the results of a poll out last week.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:12am
  - Bob
    
    The Polls have been massaged for the last 12 months.
    
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    October 16, 2021 12:18pm
Ra Henare

Why oh why do the media have to do comparisons with Victoria and NSW for how Covid will happen in NZ.
I love our world in Data.
Easy to do country comparisons this morning was looking at Island Nations(NOT Australia)
Including Cuba, Sri Lanka, Japan, Singapore etc.

They have all taken different approaches to handling Covid EXCEPT they all are vaxing like crazy.

One of the new indices in Ourworld is the stringency index.

For those interested, its a great revelation.
NZs lockdown strategy appears to be no better than Japans consistency rules or Taiwans less stringent but timely response.

Then compare Vax rates with deaths per million.

As I say, very interesting.
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October 16, 2021 8:15am
- alloytoo
  
  NZ’s vax programs has been lethargic
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:22am
Biscuit

Somewhat disappointing to note that Kokila, when setting up today’s General Debate page, didn’t go down the same brilliant, visionary, how-did-we-never-think-of-THAT-before, groundbreaking, why-not-use-colour-coding ‘system’ for Covid announcements that Jacinda and her minions in Health propose hitting us with from here on in.
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October 16, 2021 8:17am
- Dairy Flat
  
  They’re only doing it so that they can quietly get rid of level 1. Bastards all of them.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:43am
  - oldfella
    
    ‘Experts’ express big reservations about proposed new Covid traffic light system. Labour will do it anyway. So what’s new?
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:16am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What a way to public health–ramping up anxieties.
  That is criminal. Their belief in being right is no excuse as they have a duty not to cause side effects.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:48am
Yvette

Karori GP and chair of General Practice New Zealand Jeff Lowe, who accompanied Little, said modelling shows there could be 5300 cases per week in the northern region at the peak of the outbreak in 2022 – and that’s with 90 percent of the eligible population double vaccinated.
But Dr Lowe said it’s predicted that 5270 of those cases will be managed in the community.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/modelling-shows-5300-covid-19-cases-per-week-in-2022-here-s-how-infected-will-be-cared-for.html

That leaves 30 a week going to hospitals in the northern region.

Yesterday –
• Cases in hospital: 34 (total): North Shore (3); Middlemore (18); Auckland (12); Palmerston North Hospital (1)
• Cases in ICU or HDU: Six
• Confirmed cases (total): 4,538 since pandemic began – that’s nationwide.
https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-news-and-media-updates

Hospital stay: a few days to –
UN worker medivaced to NZ to be discharged from hospital, 76 days later
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300428470/covid19-un-worker-medivaced-to-nz-to-be-discharged-from-hospital-76-days-later

If Dr Jeff Lowe’s figures are correct, and 30 cases a week is right, compared to 34 in the same regions hospitals yesterday, something doesn’t quite add up.
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October 16, 2021 8:17am
- KevO'Brien
  
  If I did the model I could have made it 50,00/week. It’s just a computer game with a bit of code. (I have built a successful model in its context and know how to shape the outputs to match paid expectations.)
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:55am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It is indeed a shame that your expertise is not being called upon, with your unique combination of broad scientific knowledge, mathematical modelling, constitutional sagacity and readiness the embrace emerging technologies.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:07am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      Well I’m sure he would be more accurate that Shaun (80,000 deaths) Hendy.
      Although I believe now we are vaccinated only 7,000 are going to die. What are we going to do with the other 73,000 body bags on order?
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:09am
      - sooty
        
        Who paid the medical bills for Helen Clarks covid patients 76 days in hospital in NZ?
        
        12 2
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        October 16, 2021 10:53am
      - doggone7
        
        Anyone can be disingenuous about the Hendy 80,000 number. If you find an extra 73,000 body bags lying around be assured they would have been ordered by some illiterate who didn’t read or couldn’t understand what Hendy said.
        
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        October 16, 2021 8:25pm
    - KevO'Brien
      
      There are better modellers than me. Put Willis Eschenbach on the job if you want to get the smarts out of numbers. He asks “what’s there”, not “what would you like to see”?
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:56am
- Stu2
  
  It can only mean that they hope a lot of the cases that currently head into hospital will be looked after in the community.
  
  How feasible is that?
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:48am
- Taieri
  
  But Dr Lowe said it’s predicted that 5270 of those cases will be managed in the community.
  ——————-
  
  Can he also predict tonight’s Lotto numbers? I’d be grateful…
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:25am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    It’ll be six different numbers, each being 1-40.
    
    This predictions business isn’t so hard, once you do some modeling.
    
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    October 16, 2021 4:53pm
- JackRabbit
  
  …something doesn’t quite add up.
  
  And it never will Yvette.
  
  Anything that the government publishes is steeped in witchdoctory and voodoo, so trying to make any sense is pointless.
  
  [1] A case is where someone has symptoms, has been confirmed beyond all doubt that it is indeed Covid-19, and requires treatment.
  
  [2] An infection is where someone has symptoms, has been confirmed beyond all doubt that it is indeed Covid-19, but does not require treatment, just rest and recovery.
  
  [3] An indication is where someone has no symptoms, has been confirmed beyond all doubt that it is indeed Covid-19 but there is no activity in the tissue of the body. It may have simply entered the lungs, been overcome by primary defenses in the lungs, and never entered the lung tissue per se. It will have been killed and expelled through the mucous in the lungs, and usually down the back of the throat by swallowing and ripped apart by the acid in the stomach.
  
  [4] An indication trace is where a sample taken outside the body indicates there has been the presence of Covid-19, somewhere. e.g. wastewater.
  In this instance it does not provide any indication, which of 1, 2, or 3 above created the indication trace.
  
  The PCR test is bogus due to three factors:
  [1] The number of cycles. At 10 cycles the magnification due to replication is 1024. At 40 cycles, the magnification due to replication is in excess of one trillion. Each cycle causes loss of integrity. This is the reason why the inventor of the PCR test stated that cycles beyond 1o were inaccurate.
  
  [2] The PCR test is allowed to use 4 x 25 DNA bases, not the single 100 contiguous DNA bases as stipulated by the FDA, because there is no guarantee that the 4 25 DNA bases came from the same thing.
  
  [3] The PCR test still requires the person conducting the test to make a subjective evaluation as to confirmation.
  
  All the science presented in NZ from Hendy to Wiles to Bloomfield, has most honest and professional scientists and medical figures cringing as to its inaccuracy.
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:37am
ecco

Great article by Steven Joyce today thinking out loud what many NZers believe re getting vaccinated, setting our own targets since Jacinda won’t, and getting on with life. Also calls out and highlights the confused and bumbling response and about turns from Ardern and Bloomfield. https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/steven-joyce-covid-freedom-is-actually-coming-just-get-vaccinated/F63ECWK2SSY3RHZCXAHJSUD3FU
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October 16, 2021 8:17am
- Bobba Fret
  
  I miss Steven Joyce. Sensible, level headed and experienced and got things done. Labour need need someone with his experience. Unfortunately they have no one!
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:11am
  - sooty
    
    That carpark puddle was certainly shallow?
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:54am
  - surfing
    
    Labour just need someone who is not incompetent.
    
    Bobo the clown would probably impove the collective competency of Labour.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:16am
- Fletch
  
  And if vaccination were such an important and necessary step, why did Bloomfield only receive his first jab on the 22nd of August? And that would make his second dose sometime last month. If it were so important, why did he wait so long?
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:46am
- R
  
  The article is paywalled.
  
  If Steven Joyce thinks vaccination is the answer to everything, he is seriously mistaken. The Government could put NZ down to alert level 1 today. Remember it put us all in L4 over one case in Auckland.
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:12am
  - david
    
    But where is level 0, pray tell?
    
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    October 16, 2021 5:29pm
Benedict Yu

This is kind of disturbing. This woman is terrified that her 14 month old daughter is going to die from COVID. So she contacts Pfizer who are conducting clinical trials of the vaccine in infants. She gets a spot and throws the toddler in the car and frantically drives all night for 8 hours to get the shot. Of course there is a 50 percent chance it is the placebo.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2021/08/covid-vaccine-trials-children.html

Volunteering your child to participate in clinical trials should be for altruistic reasons and be fully informed. Not because you are terrified your toddler will otherwise die.
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October 16, 2021 8:19am
- Ra Henare
  
  Probably more chance of her toddler dieing or being seriously injured in the panicked 16 hour drive?
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:25am
- kevn
  
  @Bened… A high chance of a road accident with a mindset like that. Probably had a mask on though.
  Tragic.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:30am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Another rabid leftie on the edge of the flat earth, frothing at the mouth
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:14am
- Northshoredoc
  
  The inevitable outcome of the fear porn promulgated by large sections of the media Benedict.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:21am
- Paulus
  
  Sad for child as just fear which is promulgated all the time now in New Zealand.
  Keeping votes secure with it..
  
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  October 16, 2021 1:14pm
lazza

When we are reduced to craven state sponsored picnics and

It takes an infantile telethon to move large sections of our community to decide to do the right thing and

When an incompetent and socialist government has already (and is still proceeding) to mortgage our grand-children’s futures …

Then it is about time for the good people of our fair land to quietly but determinedly start to take back control.

Stand up all the adults out there.
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October 16, 2021 8:20am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Free tucker at the local Marae today.
  
  11 4
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  October 16, 2021 8:57am
  - Flossie
    
    That’d be free Kai wouldn’t it Kev?
    
    11 2
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    October 16, 2021 9:10am
    - oldfella
      
      Yep, Kai Fat-arse Chicken always goes down well.
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:20am
  - stewmar
    
    Free tucker at the local Marae today.
    
    No such thing as a free lunch. Odds are the kai is paid for by the NZ taxpayer as 36% of maori are on social welfare and BTW maori only represent 15% of the population. They know what side their bread is buttered. I’ve got maori tenants and they call their benefit payments their pay. Go figure.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:55am
- Ruahine
  
  Yes. “Take back control.”
  
  Take back control from the Politicians. the bureaucrats, the health despots, the ‘experts’ and the state controlled Media.
  We need a Dominic Cummings. Better still we need to stand up for ourselves.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:01am
- Fletch
  
  What’s the bet that many of these vaccination sausage sizzles and the like will turn super spreader?
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:42am
- Bob
  
  State sponsored everything was the COMMUNIST SOVIET UNION Model
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:21pm
Tony Stuart

Terribly sad to hear this morning of the death by stabbing of British Conservative MP Sir David Amess. He was conducting an electorate clinic at a church when he was attacked and stabbed repeatedly.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/uk-mp-sir-david-amess-stabbed-to-death-while-meeting-with-constituents-in-essex/GYZ4ILDWMGFMSHLLS7QPEGIN5Y/

No MP of any political persuasion deserves to be attacked in a manner like this. Sincere condolences to his family, friends and colleagues in the UK Parliament.
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October 16, 2021 8:22am
- CJames
  
  It will be interesting to see how the media covers this. Then compare and contrast that with the murder of the Labour MP Jo Muir.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:26am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Jo Cox MP
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:33am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    They have already approached the late Jo Cox’s husband for comment.
    
    14 2
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    October 16, 2021 8:42am
  - CJames
    
    You are correct (as always Maggy) I should have Googled it first.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:05am
- mandk
  
  The alleged killer is a 25 year old Somali.
  
  Sadly predictable.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:32am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    He’s just as British as Sir David was, don’t you know.
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:54am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  I am sure Jacinda and her Foreign affairs people are interested in these developments. It won’t stay local.
  “There were at least 4 suicide attackers involved in the attack against BiBi Fatima mosque in Kandahar. At least 32 dead, 53 wounded.
  “In the north of Afghanistan, there are 2 thousand IS fighters , their leaders are hatching plans to influence other countries and Russian regions – Putin
  I wonder what religion if any the perpetrators where?
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:46am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    About the same as the victims, presumably. So that won’t count, for Jacinda.
    
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    October 16, 2021 4:56pm
- Inandout
  
  TS, if I was a NZ MP I would seriously look at what is going on internationally. 120 people cannot expect to be immune from the tide of violence overtaking our world.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:57am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Agreed. We used to think that ideologically motivated mass slaughter events couldn’t happen in NZ. Until they did.
    
    There are plenty of MPs I’d like to see the back of, but via the ballot box.
    
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    October 16, 2021 4:58pm
    - sooty
      
      Didn’t the government put high fences around all mp’s houses after Branton Tarrant!
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:06pm
- ecco
  
  You’d have to be a fairly sick person to down tick this post. Just looks like trolling for the sake of trolling, whoever did the down tick.
  
  Would be an interesting exercise if DPF trialled some sort of suspension system whereby, say, if you had say 3 or more comments hidden due to low ratings in a week, you then got kicked off the site for a week. Would be interesting to see what the blog would be like with such a rule. Or could be that once you reached a certain amount of down ticks you got suspended for a week.
  
  I’m all for downticking if you genuinely disagree with someone’s comment but just going through and downticking a bunch of posts without any thought doesn’t really add anything to the blog.
  
  I suspect it would make it a much more pleasant place to frequent. Trolling for the sake of trolling can never be a good thing. Just my opinion. A few people on here are probably very lucky that DPF tolerates them on here with very little warning or moderation.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:35am
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    Please ban everything i dont like especially *squints* those nasty downtickers.
    
    You can’t survive on the internet without heavy moderation huh? even your mind is inventing a new way to moderate.
    
    This is not healthy my man and leads to yourself being “out of touch” you are locking yourself in a forest and unable to past the trees.
    
    I find kiwiblog moderators to be actually quite balanced they will let you vent, speak your mind and only hold you up if you keep going on about something, This is healthy not only to the blog but to its participants.
    
    The exception being the mod who wont let me link twisted sister music video.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Well said.
      
      3 1
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      October 16, 2021 3:18pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  A pro immigration MP stabbed to death by an muslim Somali immigrant.
  
  Will this be a “live by the sword die by the sword” moment for policy makers? (doubt)
  
  Thankfully it wasn’t a “10 year old girl decapitated in park” as it usually is.
  
  *shrug*
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:44am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Now acknowledged as a terrorist Incident.
  
  The killing of Conservative MP Sir David Amess has been declared a terrorist incident by police.
  
  Sir David was stabbed multiple times at a constituency surgery in Leigh-on-Sea in Essex on Friday.
  
  The Metropolitan Police said there was “a potential motivation linked to Islamist extremism”.
  https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-58935372
  
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  October 16, 2021 1:37pm
G152

Cindy now knows another word.
EPIDEMIC..
Evidently its when liebor don’t understand how viruses work
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October 16, 2021 8:25am
- Master Mariner
  
  Thank god for that and hope like hell she has forgotten Pandemic.
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:36am
Flossie

It beggars belief that a bunch of highly paid experts(!) spend time meeting together to decide if they’ll call the various degrees of lockdown Levels or Traffic Lights.
What difference does it make to our lives.
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October 16, 2021 8:26am
- KevO'Brien
  
  It absolves the PM from her duty of care–she’s now passed that over to the committee of the blamed.
  
  P.S.
  The PM cannot lawfully pass the buck. She gets paid to Govern and to take the risks. She needs to be called to account.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:02am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Kristin Hall, 1News reporter in Wellington, made this observation last night:
  
  The governments set to ditch the alert levels in favour of a new traffic light-based system, with the details announced next week. I’m told there wasn’t much support for the idea when it was floated at a meeting with independent experts yesterday.
  
  https://twitter.com/kristinhallNZ/status/1448894880248320007
  
  So was this another Captain’s Call by our esteemed Prime Minister, Dr Jacinda Ardern, against the advice of those who she consults?
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:10am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    But wait; there’s more!
    
    Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern’s office has been sent some heavily critical feedback on the Government’s draft traffic light system, which is meant to replace alert levels when the population is highly vaccinated.
    
    “Not fit for purpose” and “no consultation” were strong sentiments among the expert feedback for a new system that Ardern will reveal next week.
    
    https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/national/scathing-feedback-from-experts-on-traffic-light-system-to-replace-alert-levels/
    
    Is anyone genuinely surprised that yesterday’s announcement of an announcement on traffic lights has been greeted with such scepticism by the very same experts the PM has relied upon for almost two years?
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:36am
  - Nickc2
    
    Remember, she also consults with some dickhead in London. She called he/she/it for advice when Covid-19 first appeared in NZ last year.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:21am
    - alloytoo
      
      That very admission makes her unfit to rule.
      
      If this person were an internationally acknowledged expert in either health or economics then their name would have been revealed.
      
      That their name can’t be revealed suggests that our PM is beholden to person not committed or aligned with NZ.
      
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      October 16, 2021 11:57am
      - Nickc2
        
        We’re told she worked for Tony Blair at some stage but IMO, that’s no recommendation. He’s as thick as Bat Shit. Perhaps it was Jeremy Corbyn she called. His politics are more in line with hers AFIK.
        
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        October 16, 2021 4:12pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What will happen to those who run red lights?
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:18am
  - Stu2
    
    Compulsory vaccination
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:49am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Does any NZ citizen get to grow older than 5?
    Sooo childish
    
    12 1
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    October 16, 2021 10:24am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Tell them it was orange at the time and argue the case.//
    
    13 1
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    October 16, 2021 10:57am
  - Nickc2
    
    If you’re a Gang Member, no worries bro. If you’re not, the Commissioner of Plods will be coming for ya and ya will be named and shamed by the MSM.
    Get used to it, the Great Reset has started.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:25am
- Fletch
  
  It is because we are in Level 3 and unlikely to leave it. So to distract people they have decided to call it something else entirely – a reset if you will. They hope people won’t realize that being in a red light mode is exactly the same as being in Level 4 or Level 3 lockdown, that they won’t associate the two. Do they really think people are that stupid?
  
  After this they will probably use a clock or something, with 12 O’Clock being safe and half-past six being in lockdown… ?
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:41am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Legal complications too? I understand the Chief Medical Officer of Health has to make exercise his judgement to call orders as to lock down and promulgate such.
  
  The power to delegate is not necessarily included. Lacking a capable Attorney General to review these processes we could have more unlawful orders made. I expect the Courts to be involved shortly. Meanwhile what do we do if we believe an order to be unlawful?
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:17am
Cassandra

The Guardian report on the research in Antarctica is interesting, both for its results – the effect of Maori land clearing by fire – and for the reaction by some NZ academics. According to their warped view of science the soot in Antarctica should only be researched if there’s a Maori present. A weird perspective and really sums up the Maori approach to almost everything. No wonder they are at the bottom of the heap in everything apart from crime, where they excel, sadly. If only they could could see just how damaging this approach is. But, no, it’s all “by Maori, for Maori”, apart from the funding of course.
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October 16, 2021 8:32am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The fake soot is probably debris from an early moon landing attempt.
  What have 5% Maori got to do with it? Did Maui get lost and disheartened?
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:05am
- oldfella
  
  @Casssandra
  
  But, no, it’s all “by Maori, for Maori”
  
  Unless it’s something like heart bypass surgery, then I’m sure we’d all want the very best surgeon for the job – man or woman, and race be damned.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:28am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Well, if ash from Maori fires landed on Antarctica then that’s sort of like planting a flag, which means that the place belongs to them by right of discovery.
  
  Clever old Maori, eh!
  
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  October 16, 2021 5:01pm
  - sooty
    
    There they have claimed the Antarctica, by not even having to paddle the waka down in the cold!
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:11pm
solarsailer

Russell McVeagh on mandating vaccines “Our responsibility is to keep all of our people safe”. From a company with a culture of bullying, sexual harassment, and exploiting junior staff.
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October 16, 2021 8:33am
- Man Among the Ruins
  
  That is not their responsibility at all. Their responsibility is restricted to providing sound legal advice and related services.
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:57am
  - Taieri
    
    That is not their responsibility at all. Their responsibility is restricted to providing sound legal advice and related services
    —————
    
    Their responsibility as an employer includes duty of care.
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:28am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      Well, given that vaccination doesn’t prevent infection or transmission of Covid, making it mandatory will not discharge their duty of care. It’s not an absolute duty either, and I’m sure that breaching employees’ human rights isn’t under the ambit.
      
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      October 16, 2021 12:54pm
      - Taieri
        
        Well, given that vaccination doesn’t prevent infection or transmission of Covid, making it mandatory will not discharge their duty of care.
        ————
        
        That would depend on the stance taken by courts. If an employee was to sue his/her employer on related issues I’d not be so sure that NZ courts are likely to contradict present orthodoxy.
        
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        October 16, 2021 3:21pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  Yeah I’ll give you that one ?
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:15am
- Cinematic
  
  There’s more than a few chubby sickly partners in that firm that will definitely want to look after numero uno.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:15am
- fisho
  
  Indeed. It’s becoming more apparent that, rather than mandate vaccination themselves, the government is relying on the more virtuous of companies to lead the charge. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s been a bit of hinting thrown around as well, you do our dirty work for us, we’ll look kindly upon you when we need to call on outside assistance. Keep an eye out for vaccination policy to become a highly weighted assessment in the governments tender system.
  I’ve seen differing information as to whether the vaccination makes a person less infectious, I’d be keen to understand more. If it makes you less likely to pass on to others then I can understand a company might want to protect their employees, if it makes very little/no difference, or higher likelihood due to no symptoms, it’s really just virtue signalling as best, proxy strong-arming for mandatory vaccination at worst.
  
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  October 16, 2021 3:58pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  Yes, hilarious, isn’t it. What a bunch of w•ankers (can I say that on KB)?
  
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  October 16, 2021 5:02pm
-D

Further to yesterday’s discussion of the COVID combat ‘toolbox’…and seemingly willful omission of simple early treatment options such as Ivermectin.

If you have any interest whatsoever in this topic PLEASE take time to watch this recent discussion by active medical practitioners: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IeVy7jQoz0&t=271s&ab_channel=PeterHumphrey
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October 16, 2021 8:36am
-D

Ashley Bloomfield with Kim Hill just now referred to people “banging on” about Ivermectin.

No wonder our COVID ‘toolbox’ has so few tools.

Early treatment options are crucial.
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October 16, 2021 8:45am
I remember when

“Be a Covid Hero” screams drawing on the front of todays newspaper.
So all that is required to be a hero today is a miniscle prick in the arm.
That together with being carried along on a wave of over-hyped advertising and being part of a team.
Another word bites the dust because of over use and misuse – and loses any relevance to its original meaning.
So if you want to be a hero get a miniscle prick today.
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October 16, 2021 8:48am
- oldfella
  
  @IRW
  I can think of a number of ‘miniscule pricks’. None of them are heroes, and most are members of the current govt.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:33am
Greg Ettridge

I laughed my head off yesterday, Victoria have decided to allow double vaxxed NSW tourists in, but I still can’t visit my neighbours and double vaxxed Melbournians are going to be permitted to go 15 kms from home.
NSW tourists, you just can’t make this crap up!
Caulfield Cup, no crowd, Everest 10,000.
Australia has been totally garotted, 170,00 jobs disappeared in Victoria last month.
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October 16, 2021 9:00am
- Ruahine
  
  In New Zealand the Covid Industry rolls on as strong as ever. We have tens of thousands of people now employed directly or indirectly in this new sunrise enterprise. It is all good though as evidently there is plenty of money to keep it going for at least another election.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:08am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    There are not enough businesses left to survive another Cindy Season.
    
    14 1
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    October 16, 2021 11:20am
- Cinematic
  
  That Dan guy’s even more confused than our intellectually lightweight ‘leader’.
  
  14 1
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  October 16, 2021 9:17am
  - mawm
    
    He’s blinded by his ideology and a bully.
    
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    October 16, 2021 12:24pm
Paulus

In this Politically driven day it is for our family remembering how we enjoyed Telethons of the past.
Telethon embraced the whole country and our family and our friends and neighbours reveled in it.
Today it is not medically driven but by political fear.
New Zealand, or now whatever it is called, has never been so widely divided as it is now.
Maori versus everybody else.
Women against men, has grown exponentially.
Vaxers against those not wishing to be vaxed.
Have and have nots, seen in child welfare and poverty.
Are the divisions now beyond redemption, and morally today at my very twilight years am truly saddened by what is happening and so quickly ?
I am sorry for my children and grandchildren that I must take some responsibility to let this happen.
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October 16, 2021 9:04am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The responsibility lies with one person and one person only, power mad, power hungry Jaspinda bloody Ardern.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:30am
Tony Stuart

Peak Key Derangement Syndrome from journalist Donna Chisholm yesterday:

Donna Chisholm
@Donna_Chisholm
Keen to know how much the Key-led anti-Govt policy onslaught led to the Covid level change, how politically organised that was, and whether it was launched deliberately to not only undermine support for govt response but also lead to deaths for which it could then blame Labour.

https://twitter.com/Donna_Chisholm/status/1448526720814829569

There have been some batshit-crazy conspiracy theories doing the rounds of late, but this one takes the cake, and the icing! Chisholm, whose work I have previously respected, is alleging a Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy around John Key’s op-ed of a few weeks ago, designed to undermine the Government and scare it into abandoning the elimination strategy. What’s become evident in recent weeks however is that the Government is plenty adept at undermining itself!

Then there’s the wee, small matter of timing, which undermines Chisholm. Jacinda Ardern announced Auckland’s move to Level Three on Monday 20th September. Key’s op-ed was published on Sunday 26th September! As one commenter on Twitter said “Apparently John Key is capable of time travel given his op-ed was six days after Jacinda Ardern announced that Auckland would move to Alert Level 3…”.

One thing is clear. Sir John Key is still living rent-free in the heads of a legion of lefties, five years after he stepped down as Prime Minister; long may this continue!
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October 16, 2021 9:05am
- BananaLlama
  
  Taxpayers need to stop subsiding these people and their hobbies. If they want to shill for the Labour party then they can find paid employment doing so elsewhere.
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:40pm
Inandout

Surely Labour can’t sink this low?
https://www.act.org.nz/labour_must_explain_vaccination_cold_calls
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October 16, 2021 9:13am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  Why not?
  
  11 3
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  October 16, 2021 10:11am
  - dcrane
    
    Quote from the article below. A serious allegation that should be checked:
    
    “Labour MP for Northcote Shanan Halbert needs to explain why a member of the public received a call from his office asking them to delay their COVID-19 vaccinations so they could have it on Super Saturday,” says ACT Leader David Seymour.
    
    “I had a call from a member of the public saying she had received a call from someone in his office. They asked her whether she was booked to have a vaccination and if she would consider delaying it until Saturday.
    
    “Halbert needs to explain why this call was made. Was he trying to boost the stats that day to make the numbers look good or was he trying to organise a photo shoot as more Government spin?
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:40am
    - alloytoo
      
      I would recommend everyone stay away from this superspreader event.
      
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      October 16, 2021 12:01pm
    - Paulus
      
      It could be that this is part of what is called Creative Counting – well known to Grant Robertson too.
      Happened in the US at last election too.
      
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      October 16, 2021 1:21pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  The preordained headlines are already typeset.
  Vacithon an Outstanding Success
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:22am
  - oldfella
    
    @70
    Best day so far for jabs nationally is around 93K. Cindy, having galvanized the country into action today with the vaxxithon and free food, wants us to reach for the stars and reach … 100K jabs.
    Wow, an extra 7K.
    She is so… underwhelming!
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:40am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      ✔✔
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:53am
    - Stu2
      
      A target of 40,000 or 50,000 first jabs would have been better.
      
      If people bring their second jobs forward today from a 6 week booking in a couple of weeks then the gain is less significant.
      
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      October 16, 2021 12:19pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I’m sure they can go a lot lower than that. Bottom feeding pond dwellers
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:35am
Yvette

Govt to ditch alert levels for new traffic light system
1-News understands the green light setting would be for when cases are isolated and restrictions would be very limited, like Alert Level 1.
If case numbers increase to form clusters the orange light setting would mean limits on entry into venues, with vaccination status to be a factor in whether people get let in.
At the red setting, when there are multiple clusters in different areas, there’d be restrictions on gatherings and travel.

“What we’re looking to do is use the fact that we now have many New Zealanders who are vaccinated, so how can we use vaccination as a way to again give greater access to some of the things that have been high-risk in the past.”
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/15/govt-to-ditch-alert-levels-for-new-traffic-light-system/

Does the number of Aucklanders that end up in Northland (regardless of Winston’s claims), Blenheim, Christchurch, Queenstown and Wanaka, or back home in the wrong home (“These gatherings inside peoples’ homes are not allowed in alert level 3 as much s they were not allowed in alert level 4” – Grant Robertson) not prove community immunity is a myth, and your safety just depends on who plonks themselves down next to you in any setting – a traffic setting or not?

PS: 1-News understands the green light setting would be for when cases are isolated and restrictions would be very limited, like Alert Level 1.
Should it not be “restrictions would be least limited” – isn’t it fucking confusing already?

Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern admits COVID-19 Delta outbreak has grown at pace ‘beyond what we expected’
“You will have already seen that we laid out a plan for Auckland that depending on what is happening with the outbreak and of course vaccination levels, we considered opportunities week-by-week for those step downs,” she told reporters.
“What I’m asking Aucklanders: please, continue to stick to those rules, keep getting vaccinated. That will help us with easing restrictions.”
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-admits-delta-outbreak-has-grown-at-pace-beyond-what-we-expected.html

“Continue to stick to those rules” – but, by the way, in this pivot point of crisis, we are changing the rules … to so simplify them that they defy any distinct understanding.
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October 16, 2021 9:14am
- Southern Raider
  
  Is this not a ploy to never have level 1 again eg red is 4, orange 3 and green 2. So that people think they have their lives back but are actually still living under Labour enforced controls?
  
  Is this not a ploy to confuse people who are vaxxed being able to have better access to freedom. How can you have a traffic light system for alert levels but also have a similar one for Vaxx passport?
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:04am
Benedict Yu

Yeah I’ll give you that one ?
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October 16, 2021 9:20am
Yvette

Modelling
Based on the astronomical surge in the number of cases of Elvis impersonation between 1977 and 1987, modellers predicted in 1988 that by the year 2017, one in four people on the planet would be an Elvis impersonator. In some respects, it’s a pity they weren’t right.

Thank you, Newsroom – https://www.newsroom.co.nz/yesterdaze-not-all-pebbles-cause-ripples
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October 16, 2021 9:22am
krazykiwi

About the drug, the name of which I can’t master: –

Then came another “Faucism”, the introduction of Remdesivir as one of the few approved Coronavirus treatments largely on his say so. Remdesivir had been pulled from the Ebola study of the The New England Journal of Medicine because it killed 54% of the people who got the drug. In June 2020 a trial was published of 61 patients with COVID-19 given a 10-day course of Remdesivir. The result of that trial noted that 12 patients (23%) had serious adverse effects, including multi organ dysfunction syndrome, septic shock, acute kidney injury and hypotension. Four patients discontinued Remdesivir prematurely, one because of worsening of preexisting renal failure, another because of multiple organ failure and more.

And somehow based on this ghastly trial, Remdesivir was introduced in protocols to treat COVID in the USA! There are doctors on the front lines of COVID treatment that say that the kidney failure caused by Remdesivir which leads to pulmonary edema has been often mischaracterized as secondary pneumonia from COVID. Moreover, any alleged benefit from this purported anti-viral treatment would be in the early stages of COVID treatment, yet it is pointlessly applied at $3,000 a pop in hospital ICUs when we are dealing with an inflammatory and thrombotic illness by then.

Omar Khan researches and writes well. My only beef is that his articles are unreferenced forcing readers to go looking for cited papers
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October 16, 2021 9:45am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Shows pretty starkly how corrupted the drug approval (and denial of approval) process is by influence of enormous (legal) bribery budgets of Big Pharma. Another good example is Aduhelm:
  https://edition.cnn.com/2021/09/26/politics/alzheimers-drug-aduhelm-fda-approval/index.html
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:11pm
surfing

Stupidest headline…basically, “Regional architects win big at regional awards”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/bay-of-plenty-times/news/bay-of-plenty-architects-win-big-at-regional-awards-for-work-on-family-homes/ELVFSUVA5YWXN7TRUAWYA3PPIE/#Echobox=1634323143
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October 16, 2021 9:46am
surfing

Respect to netflix for showing these hateful wokesters the door!

https://gizmodo.com/netflix-has-fired-a-pregnant-organizer-of-the-trans-emp-1847874257

Hope that netflix stick to their guns!
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October 16, 2021 9:50am
- alloytoo
  
  Perhaps Netflix has done the maths and realized that the trans demographic is not worth pandering to no matter how loud they shout.
  
  The sooner the writers of bad self indulgent fan fiction are removed from our favourite franchises the better.
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:07pm
Maggie Pie

Trials & Tribulations Of Being a RESIDENTIAL Landlord…..

STUFFED reports:

A Bangladeshi woman is horrified her landlord told her the only reason she was allowed to rent a home in Remuera was because…. “initially she thought she was white”

Sabrina, (who didn’t want her last name used), said…. “I can of course go somewhere like Mt Roskill, where there are people who look like me everywhere, and it will b easy to rent a house. But just because I look a certain way, doesn’t mean I have to live in an area like that”

‘Meng-the-Merciless’ was contacted by Stuffed, but refused to comment on Sabrina’s experience.
(no doubt citing… “over-work and under-pay”)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/126664900/migrant-tenant-shocked-her-landlord-only-allows-white-people-to-rent-her-properties
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October 16, 2021 9:56am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… I gather the cooking habits of some tenant ethnicities cause big problems for the home owners.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:09am
- Cinematic
  
  Don’t know why she’s surprised. We have a government driving a ‘them and us’ policy right from the top.
  
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  October 16, 2021 10:27am
- WaveyDavey
  
  Instantly thought “that’s an asian landlord”
  
  Funny, no mention of the LL’s ethnicity eh? You can bet your bottom-dollar if they were white we’d be hearing about it
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:05am
kevn

@Tony S… Great story. Key would be chuckling if the whole NZ C19 caper wasn’t so dire.
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October 16, 2021 10:04am
Master Mariner

Finally a hearing regarding NZ tax paying Seafarers Domicilled in NZ.

Starts at 1:32m

COVID-19 Public Health Response Amendment Bill (No 2) – hearing

https://www.facebook.com/hescnz/videos/1261772767628718

Stopping NZ seafarers from keeping supply chains running , And more so in NZ waters is shear lunacy.

Great submission.
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October 16, 2021 10:09am
I remember when

Why have the media been allowed to get away with this approach.
On Q&A two weeks ago Jack Tame hectored David Seymour, repeatedly asking him how many deaths he was prepared to accept to open our borders.
David fended off the question by rightly saying there was no answer to such a question.
In the same way there are, at present, no answers to the question of how many deaths the covid lockdowns have and will cause.
Jack said the question wasn’t his but that the electorate would expect it to be answered.
Surely the problem is that our news media (and nearly all media) have made little effort to provide answers about the problems lockdowns are causing.
Economists were reluctant to venture opinions in the early days and are often looking hopefully at the sky for divine intuition.
The result has been a lack of information and direction leading to shipping deadlock, port congestion, insufficient oil production, driver shortage, among the growing list of problems.
In the case of oil the producers will be, at least partly, compensated by the resulting increase in price.
Users will pay.
Why, because planning for the future was buried by the massive amount of ‘the world must stay closed’ news.
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October 16, 2021 10:20am
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  Every day you get older your risk from covid goes up by about 0.08%. If we can expect 2000 dead from opening up NZ, then every day of delay is going to kill an additional 2000*0.0008 = 1.5 people.
  
  People advocating staying locked down for more months should be informed that that will ultimately kill about 50 a month too.
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:18pm
Yvette

“Don’t be afraid” – “Oh, shit – what should I be afraid of”

Māori political leaders say they understand why so few tangata whenua are getting vaccinated, but it has to change.

Just 40 percent of eligible (aged 12-plus) Māori have had two doses of the COVID-19 vaccine, and 63 percent at least one. They lag every other ethnicity tracked by the Ministry of Health, such as Pasifika (54 percent double-dosed), European/other (62 percent) and Asian (74 percent).

Various explanations have been given for the discrepancy, such as a vaccine rollout that didn’t take their specific needs into account and existing inequities in the health system.

But it’s distrust of authority that Green Party co-leader Marama Davidson and Te Pāti Māori co-leader Debbie Ngarewa-Packer singled out on The AM Show on Friday.
“We’re gravely behind as Māori,” said Ngarewa-Packer.

“We understand the apprehension and the lack of trust. But we do ask that you trust in us. Those that know us and those that know the front lines we have been on, we would never go on a front line that we didn’t say we needed to be in it to actually look after our whanau and protect ourselves…

“Especially now that the elimination phase is ending, we need to really dig in, whanau. Look at our history, look at what we’re contending with now. Trust in those that are always with you, shoulder-to-shoulder, in every journey that we have as Māori in our inequities… I get it, but we really are in this now and we need to dig deep.”
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-debbie-ngarewa-packer-marama-davidson-urge-m-ori-to-trust-them-when-they-say-vaccination-is-the-right-thing-to-do.html

Surely yet another example of –
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them – Albert Einstein (admittedly a stale white dead male, but really think about it)
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October 16, 2021 10:34am
- WaveyDavey
  
  There’s only one problem cohort now, MoH figures prove it
  
  Maori between 12 and 49 – that’s it. Everyone else is doing their bit
  
  That 200k left to vaccinate? Maori 12-49
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:03am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    I stand with my tangata whenua brothers and sisters. I’m holding out simply because I haven’t yet heard a cogent argument to convince me otherwise. While I’ve argued my sceptical stance here on countless occasions, it is the advocates who need to articulate a positive case. Perhaps you could lay it out for me and the cuzzies. When you say “doing their bit”, to what end are you referring?
    
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    October 16, 2021 11:50am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      To put it simply: to get vaccination rates to the required rate to lift restrictions
      
      I’m not going to bother arguing the efficacy, or otherwise, of the vaccine with you – I know where I stand and I now know where you stand.
      
      That’s your choice, my choice is to say “open up” and let the dice fall where they may
      
      If the result is bad for your “brothers and sisters” I simply don’t care any more.
      
      Again your choice, live or die, hide away or come into the light – your choice
      
      Mine is to again say “I don’t care”
      
      Your 200k ish brothers and sisters are effectively getting in the way of of me living my life and I care for their lives about as much as they care about mine – ie not at all
      
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      October 16, 2021 1:27pm
      - Man Among the Ruins
        
        So you got vaccinated, not for any medical reason, but because the government said that you should and effectively coerced you? That seems fairly submissive and irrational. And what makes you think that arbitrary vaccination rates will lift restrictions? I still see a lot of vaxxed-up people wearing masks, and in various arbitrary stages of lockdown. Remember that these are the same people who also told us 18 months ago that we just needed 2 weeks to flatten the curve.
        
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        October 16, 2021 2:08pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        I really can’t be arsed mate but as much as I can be bothered:
        
        I got vaccinated because I believe in science and the balance of probability – I’m not here to convince you of anything.
        
        It’s your choice – I honestly don’t care.
        
        All I care about is getting my life back – get it, don’t get it – it’s your call, but just get out of my way
        
        If you live: I don’t care
        If you die: I don’t care
        
        Don’t you get it yet?
        
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        October 16, 2021 2:44pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Packer & Co, have lost control. Maori are no longer Maori–too much dilution of bloodlines. There former chiefs or warrior activist wannabes can no longer control them. Maori genes are probably now below 5% of the NZ population and falling.
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:31am
- dcrane
  
  Maori are, on average, 11 years younger than the average New Zealander. On that basis alone, they should be rationally choosing to get the vaccine less often than the average New Zealander. Age is probably the greatest determinant of vulnerability to covid, and therefore the most important general factor to weigh when deciding to take the risk of vaccine adverse reaction (or other considerations). Nobody in the press ever brings this up, to consider whether Maori truly are more vulnerable.
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:13pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Exactly. Back in 1918 there were many full Maori living rurally with little contact with pakeha & the outside world, let alone proper sanitation & what have you. Consequently, the Spanish ‘flu tore through them.
    
    Today, the demographics & living conditions of Maori are almost diametrically opposed. However, we still have Hone Harawira, Debbie wotsername & co waving the spectre of 1918, as if nothing has changed, when almost everything has.
    
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    October 16, 2021 5:14pm
    - dcrane
      
      The Spanish flu also preferentially hurt the young, the opposite of covid.
      
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      October 16, 2021 10:27pm
I remember when

I wonder how much consideration Jacinda gave to the prevention of child poverty while real estate prices skyrocketed.
How did they rank child poverty, relative to the benefits to the government of electorate pleasure and money printing capacity.
Pity the rising asset value allowed investors to ‘bank the increase’ rather than the rent and having to worry about tenant property damage.
During her time in government, a $250 per week rent, in our area, would be equivalent to $555 per week now.
Never mind.
The tax payer payers for the homeless and those who qualify for a top up.
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October 16, 2021 10:49am
WaveyDavey

Just popped out to get milk and passed through my local village

Very high decile area, way above average income, one of the last places in Auckland with large numbers of stay at home mothers, about 90% white, staunchly affluent middle-class Labour voting with a large proportion of Greens, very mask obedient and socially distancing until now

Maybe 200 on the pavements socialising with their takeaway coffees, every parking space taken (some double parked) a 1.5km queue of drivers looking for parking, cyclists congregating in their tens, bubbles being burst, rules being ignored…

This has been one of the most obedient, rule-following and highest vaccinated areas of Auckland, probably the country…

It’s over folks, today is a proper turning point
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October 16, 2021 11:00am
- kevn
  
  @Wavey… Those little cafes in Mt Roskill will be pleased to see so many folk out and about.
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:32am
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Does Mt Roskill have a village to speak of?
    
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    October 16, 2021 1:33pm
- lifesgood
  
  LOL! Ponsonby, eh? Typical!
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:23pm
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    SuperSpreaderSaturday
    
    10 0
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    October 16, 2021 1:17pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Good I hope it does
      
      The only thing that’s made places come to terms with the fact that we have to live with it is when infections get out of control
      
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      October 16, 2021 1:30pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Christ no… nice to visit, you wouldn’t want to live there
    
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    October 16, 2021 1:33pm
Maggie Pie

Just laying out by the pool and thinking to myself….
I’ve never seen Andrew Little smile.
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October 16, 2021 11:13am
- kevn
  
  @Maggie… A grimace is more his style. He is unlikeable in all ways.
  
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  October 16, 2021 11:33am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  You’re right…
  
  But really, should you be thinking about Andrew Little at all?
  https://cloudfront-ap-southeast-2.images.arcpublishing.com/nzme/GIDP7ITJFQ3HMAQ2YWWPCCNZJ4.jpg
  
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  October 16, 2021 1:18pm
- Inandout
  
  Maggie, word is his union days were filled with nastiness and standover tactics. Yes, not a nice chap.
  
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  October 16, 2021 1:26pm
Chuck Bird

Unfortunately, this is premium. However, from the small quote, it is obvious that the anonymous editor is bullying an individual. I think this is wrong. Who does one complain to – the Press Council?

Editorial: Thames-Coromandel leader needs to stand down

“When Goudie was sworn as mayor in 2016 she spoke of “a responsibility to represent our district”. In espousing a view that jeopardises the well-being and economy of her district, and wider communities, she has abdicated that responsibility and should resign.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/editorial-thames-coromandel-leader-needs-to-stand-down/QREOZIXREYX22XYDWQ5I4J2QMI/
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October 16, 2021 11:31am
- Fletch
  
  The media are out of control. It’s nobody’s business but hers whether she decides to be vaccinated or not. Who is anyone else to tell her whether she should have a trial medical procedure or not? It’s “your choice” unless you decide to make what they consider to be the wrong choice.
  
  The editorial even starts out with untruths and unproven claims in the first two sentences –
  
  There is no harder truth right now than that vaccination is our best way out of the pandemic; out of lockdowns; of avoiding widespread illness and unnecessary death.
  
  The Pfizer vaccine has repeatedly been proven to be a most effective deterrent to the more debilitating effects of Covid-19. And it is safe.
  
  Really? We absolutely don’t know that it is safe. Trials are still ongoing and plenty of people worldwide are being disabled and killed by it.
  
  And I do not believe that vaccination is our best way out of lockdown. Was it the best for Israel? Was it the best for Portugal, or Singapore? All the most vaccinated countries in the world and still struggling with hundreds of daily cases.
  
  Portugal has run out of eligible people to vaccinate, and yet today they have 766 new cases and 7 new deaths.
  
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  October 16, 2021 12:15pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    There is a strong suggestion world wide that the “vaccine” will bring its own harvest of trouble. Implicated in superspeaders and ADE.
    Standby for the truth to be revealed.
    
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    October 16, 2021 2:31pm
  - doggone7
    
    The Herald saying Goudie should resign is not a sign of the media being out of control.
    It’s a sign of that organ giving an opinion just like Goudie does.
    
    The Herald reckons she should resign. I think she is silly and it’s unfortunate that a community leader has allowed herself to be seen as against the common good of the community. Others will have to work much harder to protect that community.
    
    However, I don’t think she should resign. She is allowed to lead how she wants. She has been put in there to do that.
    
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    October 16, 2021 9:31pm
kevn

@Chuck… The Mayor Goudie has lots of support from a mostly silent group including plenty of medical professionals. Plus lots of KBer’s.
Shame on the plebs trying to hang her out to dry.
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October 16, 2021 11:36am
- Paulus
  
  It is only because she is an former National MP and a good Mayor.
  
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  October 16, 2021 1:26pm
oldfella

Don’t you just love it when the science is finally, finally, settled… /s
Aspirin has long been prescribed to prevent heart attacks. Now experts say it shouldn’t.
The side effects are not worth the potential benefits, especially for older adults.
https://www.popsci.com/science/aspirin-heart-attack-prevention/
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October 16, 2021 11:51am
- krazykiwi
  
  Fancy that. This ‘revelation’ comes at about the same time aspirin’s utility for early/mid phase Covid-19 surfaces.
  
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  October 16, 2021 5:05pm
Yvette

If you go down in the park today, you’re sure of a big surprise 
If you go down in the park today, you’d better go in disguise 
For every Destiny Church member that ever there was will gather there for certain 
Because today’s the day the Tamaki whanau have their picnic
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October 16, 2021 12:04pm
Stu2

The RNZ covid visualisation has just added a breakdown of Auckland cases (all cases and hospitalisations) by vaccination status:
– under 12
– not vaxed
– 1 dose < 14 days old
– 1 dose
– 2nd dose < 14 days old
– 2 doses

Hospitalisations are :
– 139 (<12, not vax, 1 dose under 14 days old)
– 19 (1 dose or better)

It is about 60% down this page
https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/in-depth/450874/covid-19-data-visualisations-nz-in-numbers

There is also lots of other stuff not in the usual MoH releases.
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October 16, 2021 12:41pm
- Hollyfield
  
  Thanks – I found it really interesting. It also lets you search vaccination rates by suburb. My Auckland suburb is between 92-95% (each suburb is broken into smaller areas eg north, east, south, west), as are many other suburbs I more or less randomly put in. However when I put in a south Auckland suburb it was on only 65%. (This is all first dose.)
  
  I see in the Herald that Counties Manukau is leading the Super Saturday event, so it looks like it is having the desired effect.
  
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  October 16, 2021 2:06pm
- greybeard
  
  Yes, thanks Stu2.
  They do not say over which time period the 28 deaths occurred.
  It would be best if they said something like “28 deaths since March 2020” .
  Just to give a bit of scale.
  
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  October 16, 2021 2:32pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Some more context. Approximately 51,000 NZers have died since March 2020. The Covid-designated deaths represent 0.054% of that total. Further, based on normal mortality profiles around 15 of those 28 would have died of other natural causes by now.
    
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    October 16, 2021 6:30pm
  - Fletch
    
    Only 3 deaths of Covid since September last year.
    
    https://time.graphics/line/566681
    
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    October 16, 2021 8:11pm
surfing

The national vaccination day has been hijacked by 15% of the population.

What an embarrassing display of wokeism. I would unvaccinated myself in Protest were it possible.
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October 16, 2021 12:56pm
Yvette

“I know there are lots of people who don’t want me to screw up, and there are just as many who would really love it if I did.” – Jacinda Ardern

By 1pm, 69,582 people have been vaccinated today, 19,773 with their first dose and 49,809 with their second dose – https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/453642/live-covid-19-updates-super-saturday-vaxathon

So, those who don’t want Ardern screw up will at this stage quote the 69,582 figure

While those who would really love it if Ardern did screw up will go for the 19,773 number – since those who have a first dose will more than likely get a second jab, as born out by the very figures given above, and really aren’t therefore that important as those first dose persons.

The Vaxathon ~~target~~ goal should have been 100,000 FIRST vaccinations, or even more ambitious: 100,000 FIRST MAORI / PACIFIKA vaccinations.

If the Ardern fear / anxiety syndrome of setting targets is true, there should be a noticeable drop off as soon as the 100,000 target is obtained, whatever its make-up.
Watch for it …
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October 16, 2021 1:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

‘Get a vax’
‘But I don’t have any symptoms’
‘That is one of the symptoms’

See wtf is really going on?
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October 16, 2021 2:18pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  What is going on with you, Steve? You have been vaccinated, and so surely want to see vaccination rates rise as rapidly as possible.
  
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  October 16, 2021 3:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Uptick for today’s idiot!
    Vaxed with saline to make the numbers look good?
    I saw you on TV – on an ad …
    
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    October 16, 2021 5:02pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Shot bro
      
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      October 17, 2021 6:48am
CAKE FACE1

These forums are fantastic, but alas, recently I’ve noticed they are being taken over by socialists.

This would be okay if these socialists weren’t trying to vandalise the place.

How many times do you want to read nasty comments by the Milky Bar Kid et al, that are really just inflammatory posts designed to provoke and annoy the good people here?

I don’t understand why they’re still allowed to post.

Someone posted that some of these socialists here are actually monitors! Terrible if true…
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October 16, 2021 3:16pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Batman, the evidence-free lie slinger, with the world’s most terminal case of TDS is (or was?) a moderator here. Something about ‘balance’. I’m not too worried. The mods, praise be to them, do a pretty thankless task. I do recall one mod who had a penchant for ‘re-wording’ comments that offended his/her proclivities. No idea if that anxious sap is still on the otherwise fine team.
  
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  October 16, 2021 6:12pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Nah DPF keeps it as a free-speech place and good on him
  
  If you want an echo chamber why not make your own?
  
  6 1
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  October 16, 2021 7:03pm
DeepBlue

The pulpit of Truth said they’d seen the CCTV and there was no evidence the 2 Northland women were accompanied… blow me down just now on RNZ “A third woman, who was with the two women who travelled to Northland, has tested positive for Covid-19.”
14 2
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October 16, 2021 4:09pm
- Nickc2
  
  More fucking lies from the Podium of Truth. Who would have guessed?
  Never mind though, this Covid-19-D tracing system is working well and will save us all eh bro? //
  Remember come the election, who locked you up and sent us and the country broke and for what reason.
  Lying Bastards the lot of em!
  
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  October 16, 2021 5:12pm
Maggie Pie

Just caught those two Tim idiots on ZB saying the doses of vaccine delivered today now exceed 125,000. (Where do they find these people?)

What they didn’t say…..was how many of those were ‘second shots’, rather than it being 125,000 turning up for their first.

Or is it just me.
10 4
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October 16, 2021 5:35pm
- Littletramp
  
  They have all been holding back for a few days from having their 2nd shots, to get the free prizes, food etc, etc. Why wouldn’t you.
  
  11 0
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  October 16, 2021 5:58pm
- WaveyDavey
  
  Nah, it was 30 something thousand – about 3 weekday’s worth towards the target
  
  So only another 200,000 to go
  
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  October 16, 2021 6:29pm
Southern Raider

Something weird is going on. All the “experts” seem to by complete coincidence getting their second jabs today

At least Siouxie Wiles and Michael Baker on TV getting it done today
11 0
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October 16, 2021 6:31pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Saline?
  
  8 1
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  October 16, 2021 8:02pm
- Fletch
  
  In other words, these so-called “experts” left their vaccination until the absolute last minute. I wonder why that is?
  
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  October 16, 2021 8:03pm
  - sooty
    
    Freebies today!
    
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    October 16, 2021 10:22pm
Maggie Pie

Shot up to the dairy to get the latest copy of the Australian Woman’s Weekly.

It’s got a photo of Kate Hawkesby on the cover (sans make-up) …..and a pic of ClarkE Gayford, wearing a white shirt and leaning over the balcony of Premier House, trying to look like nothings wrong.
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October 16, 2021 6:35pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/opinion/126687321/if-these-poll-numbers-continue-nats-could-have-a-new-leader-by-christmas
This looks very much like a Labour-party hit job, orchestrated to attract lots of Labour supporters to comment adversely against Judith Collins.
This has been timed to detract from the appallingly bad performance of the Govt in recent weeks.
I sincerely hope that ACT & National will exact their revenge on the relevant sections of the MSM in 2023.
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October 16, 2021 7:01pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  National are Labour in a blue suit, why would anybody vote for the same thing? They have no original ideas, are on board with the removal of every bill of right etc etc.
  
  Judith wants to starve people by locking them out of supermarkets. I said 2 weeks ago that would shave more off her rating and look it did.
  
  7 2
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  October 16, 2021 8:59pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    The need to win is absolute.
    
    The principles are fungible.
    
    The result is mediocrity.
    
    5 1
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    October 16, 2021 9:25pm
- doggone7
  
  Polls happen all the time. They’re a stupid feature of the way we play politics. They have gained ridiculous status.
  They come out when they come out, they depict what people say. Ain’t no orchestration intended or needed. And when they come out commentators are going to comment.
  Individuals or parties not portrayed positively? They need to change the way they do things or what they say. Be populist, play to the crowd and results will be more positive. For whatever that’s worth.
  
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  October 16, 2021 9:19pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/world/uk/300431679/stabbing-death-of-british-mp-david-amess-declared-a-terrorist-incident
All the British newspapers have described the attacker as Somali and with possible/probable ISIS links.
But our news outlets steadfastly refuse to describe him.
( “They are us” mentality I suppose ).
NZ MSM is disgusting.
16 0
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October 16, 2021 7:16pm

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