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October 18, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 18 October 2021

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mikenmildagain

Happy World Menopause Day!
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October 18, 2021 8:00am
cmm

Cindy is such an awesome person that her staff become her friends and they will willingly take annual leave to run errands for her.

Hmmm…

Next question: would they lie for her too? I suppose they would. She handed out a gravy job to her mates. They know what side of the bread has the butter on it.

PS Clarke really has perfected the Death Row Jethro look. It always looks as if he’s wondering when he’s going to get the new boat and Land Cruiser that he thought he was signing up for.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/jacinda-ardern-pours-cold-water-on-wedding-allegations-saying-staffer-helping-as-a-friend/KJ3THSPCEQZGHPVYJ7TELLQIBQ/
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October 18, 2021 8:02am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Whew, well that’s settled, then.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:05am
  - igm
    
    Best check this out:
    https://thebfd.co.nz/2021/10/18/red-wedding-stuff-up-not-given-lightly/
    Sums it all up adequately!
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:11am
- PhilBest
  
  Someone made the great quote, “be thankful for bureaucratic ineptitude as a mitigator of tyranny”. I think we are going to eventually see the ineptitude of the friends and aiders of St. Jacinda of Teflon, bring the whole edifice crashing down. She isn’t wise or knowledgeable enough herself to even know who can competently discharge their duties. She’s surrounded herself with useful idiots and yes-persons.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:07am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Phil from your lips to gods ears. I do feel that this is what will bring them down in the end as the whole thing will collapse under its own weight.
    We have to notice we avoided Delta till the mass vaccination effort and suddenly we have Delta, did we think we would be any different from the rest of the world.
    The PM can stamp her feet all she likes but a virus is its own master and does not bend to the will of any politician.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:03am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      No, but by heck the virus will listen to Cindy’s experts!
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:21am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Indeed. I think if you substitute Whitty’s name for Ardern in this excellent article it sums the whole circus up admirably.
      
      “At present, Whitty et al are doing all within their power to prohibit, tarnish or erase altogether the simple pleasures of life with their scorched earth Covid-19 agenda. They are fanatically sucking the enchantment out of existence for those who understand its fleeting nature. Even doctors and frontline healthcare staff have succumbed, all falling under the spell of Whitty’s phobia of the finite.”
      
      https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/professor-whitty-in-a-hole-and-still-digging/
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:47pm
- Scott
  
  And so it came to pass that there was an announcement that there would be an announcement later that day. The magical fairy princess would once again address the nation. The peasants and the scribes waited with baited breath. Would they be released from captivity? Could they once again enjoy mead and ale and tea together?
  
  The news leaked out. One man was responsible for the plight of the kingdom. The name of Brian was on everyone’s lips. “If it were not for Brian all would be well”, thundered the fairy princess. “Off to the tower for him!”
  The scribes, the fearless defenders of truth, asked the Princess, “should he not be punished for longer? No punishment is too severe for such a varlet?”
  “Nay”, said the Princess of kindness, “he shall keep for another hour”.
  
  Again the peasants trudged back to their homes to stay in confinement for four score more days. All the while they blamed Brian for their plight. And the Princess continued to reign over the little hermit kingdom, for ever and ever. Amen.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:08am
- Chuck Bird
  
  It does not change the fact the we paid her staffer to make two round trips from Auckland to Gisborne even if she was shacked up with a minister.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:12am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Timeing is important was it during a lockdown?
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:44am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      I do not believe so.
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:59am
- Frank the tank
  
  Anyone else note the decent into US-style politics?
  
  Our members better be squeaky clean this time around……
  
  As for the Blairite – she devised the rules of the game therefore shouldn’t be surprised when her opponents turn it on her.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:22am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Nothing decent about US-style politics.
    Did you mean ‘descent’?
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:53am
    - Frank the tank
      
      Yes
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:08am
- Ra Henare
  
  I believe in fairies at the bottom of the garden as well!!!!
  How stupid does the PM & or staff think Kiwis are?
  
  Cant believe I said that when she knows how gullible we are.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:22am
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    51% have shown their gullibility . . .
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:16am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Very important, big announcement, the big wedding day has been postponed again. Was a distraction required.
  
  Meanwhile welcome to another day of lockdown tyranny.
  
  At some stage, when the sheeple wake up, the question has to be asked.
  
  What did the prime minister and her cabinet know about covid and when did they know it?
  
  What do we know now.
  
  Lockdowns are a blunt tool that do more harm than good.
  
  The vaccine selected is not performing as stated, it is not like the measels and polio vaccines, the health minister should have known this.
  
  Border controls, both internal and external are another blunt tool that has not worked, they have leaked like a sieve.
  
  We did not go hard and early.
  We were not at the front of the que for the now known to be imperfect vaccine.
  This latest lockdown, short and sharp, has become more oppressive.
  People are starting to not only ignore it but openly protest.
  
  What I think.
  
  We chose the wrong strategy.
  
  Elimination was never going to work, at some stage we are going to have to learn to live with it.
  
  Our implementation of this strategy has been at best incompetent, another kiwi blunder.
  
  In hindsight I personally believe that the likes of Sweden that have gone down the herd immunity path have done it well with more good and with less harm
  
  Places like Taiwan have implemented the strategy that we went with and have succeeded where we have just created pain and suffering.
  
  So welcome to the world’s newest socialist communist economic basket case. Run by an incompetent out of control authoratian government.
  
  Wake up sheeple this is not going to be the socialist nirvana, were you own nothing and you will be happy.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:43am
  - Aurelia
    
    You got it Mr Blobby. I’m with you. We’ll said. But hindsight in relation to lockdowns and sweden- it was said right at the very time they were useless and Sweden had the right attitude towards covid.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:27pm
- rouppe
  
  Love all the photos of Shaw looking down on the rest of us
  
  [Should have been under Benedicts comment]
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:54am
- Jimbo666
  
  Isn’t she Chris Knox’s ex wife?
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:57am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    She was reportedly Knox’s partner up until the time he had a major stroke. At some point after that, she took up with David Parker. More here:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politician-linked-to-knoxs-longtime-love/HYVFCTHPSM6TSXYPSKOEMSGQOU/
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:12am
    - lifesgood
      
      A lot has been said about this cosy little arrangement and none of it’s been good.
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:48am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      It looks like Parker dumped his wife in early 2010 not long after Ward’s husband had a stroke.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:29am
- ecco
  
  It’s a cosy little gaggle isn’t it.
  Ward is Parker’s partner.
  Jobs for the boys/girls…
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:14am
Benedict Yu

I find this obscene.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126705511/climate-change-new-zealand-to-quadruple-climate-cash-for-poor-countries-to-13-billion

The recipients of this money largely pacific Island nations, keep saying they are drowning from sea level rise. No evidence. Many of them are unviable States.

I see the total wealth transfer will be 100 billion dollars.

Where is National on this?
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October 18, 2021 8:05am
- PhilBest
  
  It’s only a matter of the unit of time that National takes to “me-too”. A day; a week; a month; a year….
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:08am
- All_on_Red
  
  That money should go to Third World Countries where the impoverished really suffer and have appalling life outcomes- like Aotearoa.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:13am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    When you say appalling life out comes, are you talking about child poverty and children needing to be fed at school, or the obesity epidemic and resulting heath crisis with diabetes etc.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:01am
- Ra Henare
  
  You beat me to it Benedict.
  Stupidity at its highest level!
  Politics at its worst.
  Its all about posturing for the upcoming Glasgow gab fest.
  Following in the footsteps of the great Jacindas Captains call cancelling Oil & Gas exploration before heading off to a previous Climate Gabfest.
  Lets hope that sanity prevales and it doesnt make it thru the next budget round and silently slides in to obscurity.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:13am
- cmm
  
  Where is National on this? Probably $120bn.
  
  Yes it is obscene. There are numerous simulators etc showing sea level rise of up to 10 metres. Completely preposterous. And we taxpayers fund this crap.
  
  Many of those Pacific Islands are actually rising and some are sinking. Those that are sinking are doing so because either:
  * Their underlying geology is sinking (eg. due to seismic activity).
  * Over extraction of fresh water from aquifers quite literally causes the land to deflate.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:14am
  - Blackbob
    
    I think you’ll find that none are sinking, or at least getting smaller. The 2017(?) Ak Uni satellite survey found 80% hadn’t changed their land mass and the rest had actually increased in size since the previous surveys.
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I stayed on a resort in Fiji a few years ago. They built the resort on an island with no water. All the water came from a desalination plant powered by a giant diesel generator. And yet Fiji is always blaming everyone else.
    
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/24/travel/fiji-global-warming.html
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:25am
  - Nukuleka
    
    Some years ago I did work for the University of the South Pacific in Tonga proofreading articles about the ‘threat’ of Climate Change. Without exception the scholarship, research and validity of the claims being made were dodgy at least and corrupt at most. The Tongans spotted that there was the possibility of an endless money flow from NZ, Australia and various UN and EU organisations and they were preparing the grounds for their spurious claims. Crafty Tongans.
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:31am
    - septic skeptic
      
      The way inflation is heading the most effective use for the money might be as landfill to lift the islands up a bit.
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:35am
    - Jimbob
      
      Anybody who believes carbon dioxide is the main driver of the climate is either a bare faced liar, or thicker than ten tons of pig shit.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:07am
      - Bob
        
        or just as thick as Shaw!!
        
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        October 18, 2021 12:02pm
      - hullkiwi
        
        Bob, what does that say for those that vote for Shaw and his fraudulent colleagues?
        
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        October 18, 2021 6:56pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    https://gizmodo.com/the-life-and-death-of-a-volcanic-island-1554228926
    
    Good example on life cycles of volcano to atoll.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:12am
    - rockape
      
      So clearly demonstrated when you look at the Marquesas, then French Polynesian and lastly the Tuamotoes.
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:24am
      - alloytoo
        
        Galapagos is a great example
        
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        October 18, 2021 10:16am
- Scott
  
  Benedict – everyone knows we are the richest little country in the whole world. We must be. Our government was going to spend the best part of $1 billion on a bridge just for cyclists and pedestrians! So what’s a billion here and a billion there to the no doubt very deserving people of the South Pacific?
  
  That’s been the pattern of her behaviour from the beginning. One of the first things she did was visit the South Pacific islands, you seem a nice country, here’s $10 million!
  
  We know she cares because she didn’t order the vaccine quickly for New Zealand because other countries were a higher priority. They needed it more than us, don’t you know?
  
  So the Prime Minister giving the New Zealanders hard earned taxpayer funds to other countries is just her usual form. Maybe the media will call it kindness? I can think of other words, but I know that’s what she’d call it. 🙂
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:16am
- Master Mariner
  
  Just finished reading this as well.
  
  “The rest of it will go through a variety of projects, but it includes other partner projects around the world, and also multilateral institutions like the Green Climate Fund which was set up under the auspices of the UN.”
  
  https://www.greenclimate.fund/
  
  At least James Shaw can report the Cash Splash for COP26.//
  
  He has to have some good news .
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:16am
  - Unity
    
    On either Q+A or The Nation yesterday when asked whether effecting change was either probably or improbable I heard Shaw say that it was improbable that we would be able to make any difference to climate change. So why on earth are we bothering and spending vast sums of money.
    
    Of course we should look at pollution both in the air and waterways etc, but only an idiot thinks we are so clever that we can change the climate whatever we do. It’s totally out of our control.
    
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    October 18, 2021 1:15pm
- Frank the tank
  
  Let’s be fair maybe 10% of this will actually be spent in the islands. Most will go to working groups and contractors in Wellington complete with Maori prayer groups.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:20am
- Aunty
  
  I have always considered the height of the atolls in relation to the sea to be just as much a biological matter as it is a geological one. Possibly even more so. That is that it’s not an accident that the atolls are only a few meters above the current sea level. Not 5 to 10 meters below sea level or 20 meters above it. The atolls are largely the remains of coral that have built up over time, and the corals of course were originally living organisms under the sea as part of the coral reef. The implication of this is that the height of the atolls will rise (and fall) with the sea levels.
  
  Be that as it may, how much would it cost to ship in sand, rocks, and dirt to the atolls that appear to be the most vulnerable to sea level rise? Somehow I’m thinking it will be a lot less than what the government is currently proposing to pay.
  
  But hey, when you have a disproportionately brown Cabinet, expect to get decisions that disproportionally favour brown faces.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:23am
  - Master Mariner
    
    “Be that as it may, how much would it cost to ship in sand, rocks, and dirt to the atolls that appear to be the most vulnerable to sea level rise? Somehow I’m thinking it will be a lot less than what the government is currently proposing to pay”.
    
    Ask the Chinese, They are the experts.//
    
    Also Rockfall in UK was a very expensive effort for a Lighthouse.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:58am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Rockall is the place, and it doesn’t have a lighthouse, a beacon light however was placed there in 1971.
      
      The place is only 17.15 metres high and gets completed washed over in some storms. Interesting place, is the subject of a long running if not very important dispute between the UK and Ireland over ownership.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:38am
      - tavita
        
        Flanders and Swan had a song about it. How England had lost all its empire and was left with …Rockall
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:16pm
  - artemisia
    
    Aunty, that would mean dredging the seabed and that is only permitted until the anti seabed mining applications start hitting the courts. Like iron sands mining off Taranaki providing jobs and income for New Zealand. But hey the company only spent $80 million on research and mitigation options so far.
    
    Research that is transferable to other countries that will throw their arms open in welcome.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:10am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Interesting to note, NZ is front and center in getting a worldwide morritorium on banning seabed mining which gaining some serious traction.
      
      How else are we to get minerals for the new Green Deal? Seriously.
      
      Back to the Cobalt mines in Africa with kids I guess.
      
      Closer to home are Iron sands off Taranaki and Phosphate of Chathams.
      The real interesting ones are the subsea geizers mainly off East cape and Tongan trench.
      
      All sorts of rare/precious metals gushing out.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:10am
- krazykiwi
  
  This is Ardern buying her way into UN favour. Clark did the same thing as she eyed up her next career move.
  
  A disgraceful abuse of office. I’d like to see legislative mechanisms to stop this kind of theft from the public purse.
  
  And where is National? Well, they are where they have been for 30+ years: Refining Labour policy, their foot lightly – but not effectively – on the brake as we barrel towards neo-Marxist nirvana.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:34am
  - Yvette
    
    Krazykiwi
    Unlike Ardern’s trip overseas when the Taranaki (and so New Zealand’s) oil and especially natural gas energy industries were sacrificed – virtual signalling mainly to France, which has to import natural gas :o) – this payment seems to be catch-up to “save face” for earlier non-delivery of a fair share in international commitments – see below – as Shaw makes his carbon footprints to Scotland.
    
    Shaw said New Zealand’s previous contributions were not up to snuff.
    “Our previous commitments, I would have to say, have not represented what we would call a fair share of that commitment towards the $100b total.”
    An Oxfam report in December 2020 ranked New Zealand at 21 out of 23 developed countries for its contribution to internal climate finance on a per capita basis.
    Benedict Yu’s link: https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/126705511/climate-change-new-zealand-to-quadruple-climate-cash-for-poor-countries-to-13-billion
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:54am
    - plc
      
      Taranaki people hated Ardern’s Captain’s Call so much, that they voted overwhelmingly for her party at the next election.
      
      They deserve everything they get.
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:02am
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        A bit harsh on the Taranaki thousands who did not vote for Jaxxie or the Greens
        
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        October 18, 2021 7:59pm
    - Nickc2
      
      Doesn’t it make you proud to be represented on the World Stage by such a fucking idiot?
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:25pm
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    As Michael Malice says “Conservatism is progressivism driving the speed limit”
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:02am
  - ecco
    
    A nice adjunct to this and Ardern’s CV is also allowing thousands more refugees in to the country, more than we can ever handle to assimilate in a proper manner.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:20am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Divide and conquer mentality, Another one well thought out.
      Next will be courts to allow Sharia law in accordance with their customs.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:14am
  - Jimbob
    
    NZ voters have moved more to the centre and slightly left than ever before. If your policies don’t meet those requirements, you will not win elections.
    
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    October 18, 2021 11:10am
    - Man Among the Ruins
      
      In general, the views of the electorate haven’t moved left of their own accord, they have moved left because the policies of nearly all politicians have all moved progressive/left, and have been promulgated by a leftist media. If the discourse went to the right, the electorate would go right accordingly. They are an easily-led and malleable herd, for the most part.
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:02pm
- igm
  
  Not to overlook the fact it is borrowed . . . finance the Labour way!
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:34am
- krazykiwi
  
  Back in 2019 I wrote a bit about the Maldives and their gimmie-gimmie, we-are-gonna-drown handout hypocrisy.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:38am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Hey, don’t knock them…
    They’ve been open to Tourists (with the exception of some from India) since July 2020.
    https://www.tourism.gov.mv/covid19
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:26am
    - In Vino Veritas
      
      Yeah, and our family gig there, Singapore and Sri Lanka in 2020 was canned because of COVID lockdown. It didn’t matter that they were open, we couldn’t bloody get there!
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:41am
  - Master Mariner
    
    If they are that worried about climate change then how about they sort the garbage out first.
    Tidy your own back yard first would be my call.
    https://maldivesfinest.com/trash-island
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:01am
- Taieri
  
  The recipients of this money largely pacific Island nations,
  ——————
  
  Not at all. The recipients of this money will not be Pacific Islands nations. This money will be used solely to feed snouts immersed in various “climate” related (or unrelated) troughs.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:44am
- Justitia
  
  You are quite right to find it obscene Benedict. The UN Paris Agreement is about global socialism and totalitarian control of populations through restricting their access to energy. The PICs (Pacific Island Countries) have been on the climate handouts bandwagon for years with their palms outstretched to the West while sucking up to China and mismanaging their own economies. They laugh at us behind our backs. Absolutely no accountability there. This is pissing money up against the wall.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:46am
  - Man Among the Ruins
    
    It’s not about global socialism at all. Are the Davos crowd, Gates, Bezos, Zuckerberg, Wall Street, Klaus Schwab et al socialist? Of course they aren’t. The drivers are all monopoly capitalist oligarchs. Capitalism isn’t synonymous with the free market.
    
    It is capitalism that is behind the trans movement, BLM, mass immigration, anti-Whiteness, globalism and post-nationalism. These are aimed at demolishing all barriers to their profits. They want a world were everything is a commodity, including personal identity, and they, of course, will be the ones selling those commodities to a demoralised, atomised and nihilistic mass of consumers. With climate change policies, they are going to transfer vast amounts of wealth to themselves via making it prohibitively expensive for all but the mega-wealthy to own large amounts of land due to the “obvious inefficiencies” inherent in large private land holdings.
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:15pm
    - Justitia
      
      You have a point Man Among the Ruins. Catholic Cardinal Gerhard Muller describes it as “unified capital-socialism” which he sees arising from a merger between Western capitalist organisations including Big Tech and the communism of China. The upshot will be rule by capitalist global powers while the masses are held in socialist societies, controlled and suppressed by the State. The attached article describes his concerns which are very plausible: https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/cardinal-mueller-decries-the-great-reset/. Climate catastrophism has a major part to play in herding the gullible masses into their confinement.
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:15pm
- redeye
  
  Lotto has jack potted to a whopping 42 million dollars for Wednesday. It’s a massive amount of money by anyone’s measure. Except our government.
  It is still not enough to pay the bill on the bike bridge that wont ever be built. That they’re still paying people to design.
  It wouldn’t even pay the wages of Ardern’s communication team for just 6 months.
  It would barely just cover the bill for the light rail. That also wont now be built.
  It wouldn’t be enough to cover the money this government is paying for favorable media coverage.
  And it’s about half of the advertising bill for trying to sell voters on the merits of centralising water management.
  And Labour supporters are still going on about the cost of the flag referendum.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:01am
  - Nickc2
    
    At least we had a flag referendum. Cindy won’t dare have a referendum on:
    Maori Separatism.
    Country name change,
    Socialism vs Capitalism,
    MMP,
    Extended parliamentary term,
    Voting age, or
    Three waters.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:31am
- Nickc2
  
  What’s all this newfound interest in the Pacific Islands (PIs) then? Oh, that’s right, Mahuta’s mates (China) are also offering financial assistance (lava lava and road) and PI votes from South Auckland may be lost in the process.
  Buying votes is not a new sport in NZ but at a cost of $13 to $100Bn is fucking ridiculous and off the planet. Where’s this money coming from?
  
  Suprise suprise, it’s coming off that printer in Robbo’s Office and our kiks kids kids kids will be footing the bill.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:01am
  - ecco
    
    Ardern is clearly shoring up support from the 5 Maori mps that they rely on come rain or shine. That’s why the whole Labour Covid response/Auckland lockdown is being determined by pandering to the Maori voter base.
    
    Billions being spent (or forgone in lost economic activity because of the Auckland lockdown) to save a small subsection of Ardern’s voter base. All due to the inequities of the race based seats Labour enjoys the support from.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:25am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Studies were done by Auckland University–the islands are not sinking. Some are being eroded, others actually being built up. Parrot fish are eating away at coral foundations. Another is trampling their island into the sea by the weight of population.
  
  Leaders will always re-home other people’s money.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:29am
  - Ehlana
    
    Re-home? Is that what we’re calling it now. How about we re-home the leaders, instead of the peoples money. Imagine the ads…
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:17am
- chukar
  
  Must be a rundown on COVID.
  
  Stuff have two doomsday articles on their front page.
  Biodiversity and climate change!
  They certainly don’t want their readers to be happy?
  
  This Goverment funded fear promotion is uncalled for and damaging to all NZ.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:26am
- Liberty
  
  The rise and full of pacific islands have more to do with the earth’s flexible surface and the position of the sun and earth’s tilt.
  Spreading 1.3 B might get shaw into the right parties on his upcoming junket tour.
  It won’t make a difference on how high the tide is.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:40am
- thirteenstars
  
  “Where is National on this?”
  
  A party infested with Blue-Greens? The authors of the RMA? An organisation with the motto: Non Quem Stabam In Navi?
  
  I think we all know where they are.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:49am
  - Liberty
    
    The authors (and supporters) of the RMA?
    Who have now retired.
    National now want to abolish the RMA.
    Time to move on.
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:26pm
    - thirteenstars
      
      “National now want to abolish the RMA.”
      
      Oh, cut it out. The disingenuity (or ignorance) in that statement is breathtaking.
      
      At best National will repeal and replace the RMA. Replace with what? The current government is already a long way into exactly that process.
      
      It’s not the RMA per se that’s the problem, it’s the notion that such decisions are at the behest of government in the first place; that private resources can be treated as public resources fully open to every objection under the sun. Repeal and replace does nothing to address that core philosophical problem.
      
      National suffers from the same myopic Green illness that Labour does, and tweaking around the edges misses the point entirely.
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:40pm
    - chukar
      
      Liberty,
      National have had a number of opportunities to “reform” the RMA..
      So past form says they will do absolutely nothing!
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:00pm
      - marcw
        
        Perhaps because when they attempted meaningful reform, Labour, Greens, Maori party, and Peter Dunne blocked them in Parliament. They didn’t have a working majority at that point. One of the reasons John Key threw in the towel I believe. Too much hypocrisy and stupidity to want to carry on.
        
        Guess who wants to reform the RMA now?
        
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        October 18, 2021 1:20pm
      - Liberty
        
        No didn’t have the numbers.
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:43pm
- Bluegrass
  
  The Dutch seem to do OK…
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:29am
Andrei

Top story on Stuff this morning

This is how it ends

All doom and gloom from Andrea Vance whose scientific credentials are what?

I thought she was a political journalist who got sidelined in favour of Jessica

Anyway this pampered woman thinks that people are bad and even though she lives better and consumes more than 99% of humanity her prescription seems to be further impoverishment of the poor – which is typical of Green hypocrites
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October 18, 2021 8:06am
- rouppe
  
  There was a slew of “end of the world” stories.
  
  Fairly obvious agenda of the week
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:54am
Yvette

Winston – what a wag
Trevor Mallard: Parliament a better place since MMP
As Aotearoa commemorates 25 years of MMP, the Speaker of the House has been reflecting on the changes wrought by the introduction of a more representative voting system.
… When the move to a mixed member proportional system was first proposed, he was not keen on the idea. … “I was opposed to MMP. I thought it would result in sort of the tail wagging the dog and I thought Governments couldn’t do policy.
… “Now I look at the Parliament and see a place which looks much more like New Zealand. It’s much more representative. Gender, ethnicity, sexual orientation. I think it’s a better place. We get better debate. We get more informed opinions though having that representative Parliament.”
While he concedes the tail has sometimes wagged the dog, he argues that you no longer see the “wild swings in policy that you might have got in the past.”

Mallard seems to have totally forgotten the 2017 Election where Labour won a certain number of votes (956,184), National in fact won more (1,152,075), Greens (162,443), but enough people gave Winston their votes so that after final numbers were announced Winston was still able to cast 186,706 votes, knowing the outcome of all the other votes, in whatever way he chose, and irrespective of what his voters may have hoped he would do, and so could not only be the tail that wagged the dog, but decided what bred of dog it was.

That is the “democracy” Mallard so applauds. It’s a dog – a mongrel.
Just saying for a friend
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October 18, 2021 8:06am
- Nickc2
  
  Why anyone in NZ would pay any attention whatsoever to anything Mallard says is beyond me. How he can be a politician for all these years and still be as thick as bat shit is unbelievable.
  He’s another oxygen thief!
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:30am
- KevO'Brien
  
  MMP has to go, it doesn’t deliver executive government.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:32am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Mallard is hardly going to say anything against Peters, given he owes his job, and his future knighthood to Winston.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:14am
Simon

For the record: I have the covid vaccine and it was wonderful. I am so happy with our PM. She is the best. I was unsure but she said it was fine. I believe her. We are in this together team of 5 million.
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October 18, 2021 8:07am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Many of us have dropped out.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:33am
- lifesgood
  
  I sincerely hope you are being ironic otherwise I feel very sorry for you.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:53am
Maggy Wassilieff

A couple of folks have mentioned the old technique of aspirating an injection…

https://sciblogs.co.nz/diplomaticimmunity/2021/10/17/is-injection-technique-contributing-to-the-risk-of-post-vaccine-myocarditis/
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October 18, 2021 8:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Thanks yes I have followed closely. The authorities won’t give in because they will face lawsuits. I think that with time, evidence will show that the myocarditis and blood clots were caused by people getting injected into a vein. Not the fault of the vaccine makers. Their instruction guide says “do not inject onto blood vessels.”
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:28am
  - Greg Ettridge
    
    Yes aspiration is still practiced in many parts of the world but has been discontinued by what seems to be so called advanced countries.
    How long does it really take to do this, several seconds.
    I would assume the same length needle is being used for all arms, these would vary in circumference dramatically.
    I do agree with you, straight into the blood system is a really bad practice, but I am not totally convinced this spike protein does remain around the injection site.
    I guess the world will know in a few years time when someone in authority actually admits to the extent of adverse effects and their causes.
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:42am
    - PhilBest
      
      Greg, this could relate to one of the biggest failures of mainstream medical biology. Google “The Interstitium”. There is in fact fluids in the interstitial spaces in the human body, and “flow” of substances does occur around the body in this fluid. The orthodoxy is that nothing gets from A to B except via “vessels”. This is WRONG. Cancer can metastize from one part of the body to another without being detected in blood or lymph.
      
      IN fact a whole host of health mysteries can be explained by the freedom with which interstitial fluids move and remain fresh and non-stagnant. The adjacent fascia and connective tissue, in the absence of fluid movement and flow, can become dehydrated and toxic and adhered, which explains probably most of the “mysterious” chronic pain conditions that millions of people suffer.
      
      I am surmising that the very healthy and able people who suffer vaccine adverse reactions related to mRNA and vaccine adjuvants getting to unexpectedly remote parts of the body, have excellent interstitial fluid flows. It would be worth looking at whether these people are disproportionately Yoga practitioners, gymnasts, dancers, etc. Or at the very least, whether they have great flexibility and limb range of movement, some people have this even without doing an ounce of work on it.
      
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      October 18, 2021 8:49am
    - krazykiwi
      
      Time will tell. The extent of any inevitable coverup will determine how long we’ll need to wait.
      
      The spike protein’s traveling to, and lodging in all manner of organs was discovered by Japanese medical researchers. I’m sure they knew how to correctly administer a IM injection.
      
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      October 18, 2021 8:52am
    - Fletch
      
      The vaccine does not remain in the site of the intramuscular injection. You only have to look at the animal trial studies that Pfizer supplied to Japan when seeking approval for their vaccine. They have since been released via a freedom of information request and translated. The vaccine appears in the circulation within 15 minutes of intramuscular injection, reaching maximum plasma concentration within just two hours. Very high levels recorded in the liver, the spleen, the adrenal glands, and the ovaries.
      
      Here is the study translated into English –
      https://ia802305.us.archive.org/28/items/pfizer-confidential-translated/pfizer-confidential-translated.pdf
      
      And here is a breakdown/analysis of the study –
      https://doctors4covidethics.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Pfizer-pharmacokinetics-and-toxicity.pdf
      
      The highest plasma level is reached at two hours after the injection; however, even after only 15 minutes (0.25 hours) the level already reaches almost half of that maximal value. Reverse transcytosis might in part account for this rapid uptake process.
      
      Shows images of the rats used in the experiments with highlighted areas of injection site and organ sites.
      
      The study by Ogata et al shows the same thing –
      
      https://academic.oup.com/cid/advance-article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciab465/6279075
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:22am
  - Sacha
    
    Former Pfizer Vice President’s (Mike Yeadon) latest message on Covid Vaccines. (on Rumble) explains with alarming clarity how blood clots and myocarditis occur following the vaccine injection. He seems to have all the credentials for believable comment.
    And it has nothing to do with the very rare, penetration of a blood vessel by injection.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:18am
- Aunty
  
  Yes, this is a topic that has been well canvassed overseas although the Jury still seems to be out on it. Denmark however has moved some time ago to require Covid injections to be aspirated to prevent the inadvertent intravascular administration of the dose rather than the intramuscular one that is intended. There is some evidence, mainly from animal studies, that an intravascular administration of the vaccine (it goes into a blood vessel by mistake and then into the circulation) may be the cause of the heart inflammation that is sometimes found in those who receive the shot. The only problem with this is that it doesn’t explain why this side effect is found more often in younger men rather than uniformly across all age groups and sexes.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:36am
  - Sacha
    
    When I did my nursing training some generations ago, we had a strict method for any intra muscular injections. The reasons were to avoid accidental injection into a blood vessel OR a nerve.
    It went like this:
    prepare the injection fluid in the syringe (correct drug/dose/volume)
    wash hands
    identify the muscle (eg the deltoid)
    swab the area & allow skin to dry
    take the muscle in the non-injecting hand and gently squeeze so that it is firm, like an orange.
    with a flick of the wrist, inject the needle vertically, deep into the muscle
    withdraw the needle slightly 1-2mm
    gently aspirate
    if any blood appears in the syringe, remove the needle immediately,
    swab and apply pressure until the bleeding stops, and go to another site
    inject the fluid steadily, with no force
    remove the needle, swab the injection site, & apply light pressure to avoid any leakage.
    dispose of used equipment
    wash hands
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:37am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes but that is no longer done.
      
      I was reading a post by a nurse who said that in a 30 year career she hit a blood vessel twice – scared the hell out of her. So it is one in thousands. But now we are vaccinating billions. I think it is highly likely that this is the cause of the myocarditis/blood clots side effects.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:52pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Would the extra thickness of needle required for penetration of extra thick cap required for -70 deg C Pfeizer Vaccines have any contribution ?
  Also due to getting maximum from each vial , It appears vaccinators may ? not squeeze out any air bubbles ? prior to vaccination.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:37am
  - Sacha
    
    Micro bubbles are absorbed into the tissue without problems, but any volume, could cause problems,
    Some drugs need to be drawn up using a larger gauge needle, which is then replaced with a smaller gauge for the actual injection, and the fluid is injected more slowly to allow the tissue to adjust to the increased pressure within.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:48am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Thanks Sacha. Good description above as well.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:27am
artemisia

How much ICU capacity do we actually have? Classic case of lies, damn lies and statistics because the answer depends on what is being measured, and who is being asked.

Tracy Watkins does a good job of unpicking the various numbers, and Lo! There is the coalface number, and the MoH number, and the Minister’s number, and the Australia New Zealand Intensive Care Society Audit number. And they are not measuring the same things, thanks to the army of spin doctors.

Most telling sentence –

Anecdotally the staffing situation is getting worse, not better, as nurses leave for more lucrative positions in Australian hospitals and private nursing jobs in the UK. With Australia racing to remove travel restrictions, the fear is that could turn into an exodus.

Why stay and work even harder and for less pay because guess who is expected to cover for reducing staff numbers?

(And it’s not just ICU staff.)

https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300431939/covid19-what-the-everchanging-icu-bed-numbers-tell-us
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October 18, 2021 8:12am
- Yvette
  
  Artemisia – ICU beds
  When I pointed out that it was on their website they responded that the figure of 552 was an indication of “what additional ICU capacity could be brought online should it be needed”. They added that there were currently 284 ICU beds. That seemed to suggest a drop of around 60 beds on the previous year.
  But that figure of 284 is different again from the one that Little quoted on Radio New Zealand last week of 340.
  Yet according to an audit by the Australia New Zealand Intensive Care Society released just last week, none of those numbers are correct – the actual figure is just over 172 fully staffed adult ICU beds, and 14 fully staffed paediatric beds, a total of 186.
  – Tracy Watkins
  https://www.stuff.co.nz/opinion/300431939/covid19-what-the-everchanging-icu-bed-numbers-tell-us
  
  Woeful vaccination rates were one thing but when it became clear according to Ministry of Health figures that the numbers of ICU beds had been reduced from 358 beds in July last year to 284 today [updated August 27. 2021], there had been no increase in ICU staffing for 18 months, and the NZ Medical Association’s call a year ago for a co-ordinated national ICU strategy had been ignored, the Government’s indolence began to look scandalous.
  – Peter Dunne
  https://www.newsroom.co.nz/govt-needs-a-new-story-on-covid
  
  As Tracy Watkins may have found – an earlier item is often more accurate – less spin-doctored.
  For Muldoon there were two types of doctors: the ones who made you well, and the ones who made you sick – Rodney Hide
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:00am
- solarsailer
  
  RNZ covered this in September and suggested that 30-40% of the capacity is already taken by planned admissions.
  
  The jab is good at keeping people out of hospital (for how long who knows), but it won’t keep everyone out. 80%, 90% fully vaxxed? What we’re really talking is the size of the queue for an ICU bed.
  
  It makes treatment all the more important as another tool for keeping the sick out of hospital. But sadly our mediocre health bureaucracy refuse to entertain anything other than vaccination.
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/programmes/the-detail/story/2018811173/increasing-icu-bed-numbers-is-not-that-simple
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:32am
Simon

As a pro vaxxer this is some good advice.

Worried about the spike protein leaving the arm? Certain public health “experts” could have the jab in the arse. No way is the spike protein ever gonna escape from there.

Team of 5 million, in this together.
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October 18, 2021 8:12am
Aquataur

I’m making a plea for all KBs to think of the great division that has occurred in our country over attitudes to Covid, and the decision to vax or not.
And then to reflect on what they can do to reduce such a division.

This division in my view is of far more lasting harm than the pandemic itself. We are rapidly descending into a space where one section of society is being villified, made a scapegoat for wider societal failures (such as lack of hospital capacity), and is danger of being singled out with punitive restrictions and laws. The nasty underbelly of persecution is in full view, which I find incredibly disappointing in what has generally been a liberal and tolerant country.

Likewise, I was disappointed in our host’s article on midwifes, while both respecting his right to publish, and indeed thankful that he provides a forum for discourse.

But he of all people can surely see where this is taking us. Potentially communities shunned by others, forced to operate their own schools and hospitals, restricted as to where they can learn and worship, subject to curfews, travel restrictions, etc. The ghettos of Europe arise again, only this time it is not religion that is the divide but vaccination status.
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October 18, 2021 8:13am
- KevO'Brien
  
  ~~Cinder’s responsibility.~~ Ours.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:37am
Frank the tank

I see DPF’s Dem favorite Butt ‘a couple of kegs’ is having a few issues in his new role. Like Garland as a SCOTUS I believe we dodged a big bullet there and post this job he’ll dribble back into obscurity.
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October 18, 2021 8:16am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Who is ‘we’ in the context of your second sentence?
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:43am
  - Frank the tank
    
    The world Mike, the world
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:10am
- timl
  
  Pete is on Paternity Leave. No one noticed for 6 weeks
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:54am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    I thought he was out collecting guns. He keeps saying that people tell him to ‘come and get them’
    
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    October 18, 2021 1:15pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    https://www.rt.com/usa/537726-buttigieg-supply-chain-crisis-2022/
    
    Buttigieg tried to put a positive spin on the protracted crisis, arguing that it reflects surging US demand for consumer goods. “Retail sales are through the roof,” he said. “And if you think about those images of ships, for example, waiting at anchor on the West Coast – every one of those ships is full of record amounts of goods that Americans are buying because demand is up, because income is up, because the president has successfully guided this economy out of the teeth of a terrifying recession.”
    
    And this cracker.
    The transportation secretary also was mocked by Fox News Host Tucker Carlson, who said Buttigieg and his husband were “trying to figure out how to breastfeed. No word on how that went.”
    
    Sure has his finger on the pulse//
    
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    October 18, 2021 1:25pm
BarryB

I guess it had to happen.
Maori want a separate control system for Covid restriction.

According to Asian Invasion, Maori representatives have been having meetings with the Minister for Maori Affairs over the weekend to get them up to date with the proposed traffic light system.
They seem not happy with it and want a separate system for Maori. I suppose since there is going to be a separate system for Maori health they think since Covid is a Health matter that a separate system for Covid is appropriate……….
Im not sure that the virus is up to date with this and is willing to infect Maori at different rates to everyone else………………

Maybe – as the website suggests – it may mean Maori In Quarantine – MIQ.
I agree with that if they are not vaccinated.
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October 18, 2021 8:17am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Not possible under present law.
  Bloomfield walks a tight rope making his orders. I doubt he has power to delegate.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:40am
- alloytoo
  
  I think a round-about-system would be better.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:22am
- Nickc2
  
  Does that mean Maori can go to the pub in any lockdown state/traffic light state but whities must stay at home?
  Seriously, is this what we have accepted under a Separatist Socialist Govt?
  
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  October 18, 2021 2:03pm
Frank the tank

10,000 people on Orewa Beach suggests Super Saturday was operated at L1 for most.

Outside of masks in shops Auckland is giving L3, phase 1?, traffic light red? the middle finger.
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October 18, 2021 8:18am
KevO'Brien

Mistress Ardern seems to be well entrenched among the World Economic Forum (NWO).
She’s one of the alumni of their Young Global Leaders indoctrination program along with Bill Gates, Angela Merkel and the rest…

She’s mentioned here at about 33:30. This German trial lawyer, also with standing in California, and others are calling out the legality of the Covid processes.
https://www.globalresearch.ca/video-the-pandemic-is-a-global-coup-detat-reiner-fullmich/5758782

Is it a conspiracy when they have patents and announce plans years ahead?
We need vigilance whether we agree or not. Freedom is a very tender plant.
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October 18, 2021 8:21am
- Master Mariner
  
  https://www.rt.com/op-ed/503516-covid19-lockdowns-great-reset/
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:06am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You’re onto it.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:42am
- Spoff
  
  From Wikipedia:
  The World Economic Forum (WEF), based in Cologny, Geneva Canton, Switzerland, is an international NGO, founded on 24 January 1971 by Klaus (You vill own nussing undt you vill be happy) Schwab. The foundation, which is mostly funded by its 1,000 member companies as well as public subsidies, views its own mission as “improving the state of the world by engaging business, political, academic, and other leaders of society to shape global, regional, and industry agendas”
  
  An analysis by The Economist from 2014 found that the vast majority of participants are male and more than 50 years old. Business accounts for most of the participants’ background (1,595 conference attendees) with the remaining seats shared between government (364), NGOs (246) and press (234). Academia, which had been the basis of the first annual conference in 1971, had been marginalised to the smallest participant group (183 attendees).[54]
  
  On 19 January 2017 the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), a global initiative to fight epidemics, was launched at WEF in Davos. The internationally funded initiative aims at securing vaccine supplies for global emergencies and pandemics, and to research new vaccines for tropical diseases, that are now more menacing. The project is funded by private and governmental donors, with an initial investment of US$460m from the governments of Germany, Japan and Norway, plus the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation and the Wellcome Trust.[73]
  
  Between 21 and 24 January 2020, at the early stages of the COVID-19 outbreak, CEPI met with leaders from Moderna to establish plans for a COVID-19 vaccine at the Davos gathering,[74] with a total global case number of 274 and total loss of life (from) the virus at 16.[75]
  
  The WHO declared a global health emergency 6 days later.[76]
  
  Launched by Klaus Schwab of the World Economic Forum in 2004,[1] the Young Global Leaders are governed by a board of twelve world and industry leaders, ranging from Queen Rania of Jordan to Marissa Mayer of Yahoo! and Wikipedia co-founder Jimmy Wales.[2] Schwab created the group with $1 million won from the Dan David Prize,[3] and the inaugural 2005 class comprised 237 young leaders. Young Global Leaders participate in the Annual Meeting of the New Champions, established in 2007 and known informally as “Summer Davos”, alongside Global Growth Companies and other delegations to the World Economic Forum.[4]
  
  Third row, left:
  https://www.younggloballeaders.org/community?class_year=&page=4&q=&region=&sector=&status=alumni
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:09am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    The world has much to be grateful for, with some billionaire such as the Gates spending their fortunes to benefit humanity instead of launching themselves on vanity trips to space.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:46am
    - Spoff
      
      “some billionaire such as the Gates spending their fortunes to benefit humanity”
      
      Bill Gates net worth:
      1986 $350 million
      1987 $1.25 billion
      1990 $2.5 billion
      1990 $15 billion
      1997 $40 billion
      1999 $85 billion
      2000 $63 billion
      2008 $58 billion
      2009 $40 billion
      2014 $76 billion
      2020 $130 billion
      
      Amazing how profitable philanthropy can be.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:10am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        I feel sorry for Gates, no matter how much he tries to give his money away it seems to keep doubling every couple of years. Poor bastard. He needs sympathy.
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:45pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Good on Bill for his malaria work, but not everything he supports is so benign.
      
      And I see you are a “small world” advocate, opposed to the idea that humans may eventually colonise space. Can’t have people escaping from control can we.
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:02pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        I am certainly in favour of billionaires donating huge sums to making life on Earth better, rather than buying themselves vanity trips to outer space.
        
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        October 18, 2021 1:56pm
      - ISeeRed
        
        Yeah, funny how those who preach about “saving the planet” never think beyond it. They are philosophically the real flat-earthers, thinking that’s the end all and be all.
        
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        October 18, 2021 2:49pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Yes, he did a sterling job bringing polio back to Africa with his other vaccination programme.
        
        3 1
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        October 18, 2021 3:49pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        With limited exceptions, billionaires donate billions to make life better, for themselves personally. That they can fold shallow idiots like Mikey into thinking it is more than that, speaks volumes.
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:17pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You make it sound so lovey dovey.
    These are bunch of the world’s richest in a private club who have plans for you. “You’ll own nothing and you’ll like it.”
    
    The tyranny of the nerds will make the Nazi Holocaust seem like a Sunday School picnic.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:48am
- mawm
  
  Along with Trudeau and Macron. They have infiltrated governments throughout thenWestern World.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:12am
  - Charmaine Hawke
    
    Funny thing is Trudeau was never a WEF young leader he was next level down. Make of that what you will
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:16am
    - alloytoo
      
      As Castro’s son his place is automatic.
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:22pm
- Aurelia
  
  Remember when Robbo scoffed at the suggestion that the great reset / new world order was real and happening….Jesus, just check the World Economic Foums website. They directly quote both these concepts. If only the sheep weren’t so lazy.
  
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  October 18, 2021 7:19pm
Inandout

Anyone here attend this party on the North Shore?
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10100903/Inside-wild-Auckland-party-thrown-Instagram-influencer-locked-New-Zealand.html
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October 18, 2021 8:22am
- DeepBlue
  
  Anyone here under 25 years old?
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:59am
- rouppe
  
  Well based on what is happening to Brian Tamaki one would expect the hosts to be arrested and charged.
  
  Right?
  
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  October 18, 2021 12:32pm
- Paulus
  
  Why, if we are told that the Party ran from 7 pm to 4 am did nobody complain to the Police or the Council noise people ?
  And who did not get an invitation ?
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:43pm
Frank the tank

After the “Vaxxathon” are you all as excited as me about the month long “weddathon” coming to our screens and newspapers in a few months time.

What’s the bet some mental midget from Grey Lynn tries to peddle a script (with Aoteroa on Air funding) to Hollywood.
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October 18, 2021 8:24am
I remember when

Police surround gang’s HQ after firearms incident.
Did they use their loud hailer to ask,
“Do you have any unregistered or illegal guns you wish to surrender?”
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October 18, 2021 8:26am
- Tony Stuart
  
  No, they said “Put your masks on before coming out”…
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:33am
  - oldfella
    
    TS, who’d be brave enough to ask a mobster if they were ‘coming out’?
    Do the gangs even tolerate gay members?
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:57am
    - Suze Wainwright
      
      Heh, they might have read up about Ronnie Kray…
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:18am
Paulus

Remember Cindy has to get the maximum publicity before the APEC on line meeting in November where she is Chairing the Meetings of the Luminaries and Worldwide media and Observers.
She has to be seen by them as being the answer to the UN or other answer to their prayers.
Not continually obsessed by Corona which we are being continually sucked into.
She is to be seen as a strong Leader, who actually has no idea where she and we are going so its is PR on the hoof.
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October 18, 2021 8:30am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Cindy: Grade A Useful Idiot.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:50am
  - oldfella
    
    @Kev.
    ‘Let’s go Cinda.’ Chanted kindly of course.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:59am
Jason11

I posted on Friday about how my school Teacher wife needed to get a negative Covid test within 72 hours of starting back at school today, but that’s it forever….no other tests are required. Pointless!

Update: The earliest she could get a test was Friday afternoon but the doctor turned her away as she didn’t have an appointment, and then the local mass covid testing site closed 5 minutes before she got there at 4pm (like most others I believe). Back there first things on Sat morning means 48 hours to get the test result, plenty of time right? After all the govt mandated this, and the govt said the children of essential workers can go to school right, and the govt will get that testing done within the timeframe to make this possible right? Well guess what, no result and no teacher today kiddies.
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October 18, 2021 8:35am
I remember when

Further proof of the greater risk covid-19 is to Maori.
MOH covid figures show that in the August, 2021, cluster there were 529 Maori infected, 42 were hospitalised, 7.93%.
For European and others there were 274 cases, 21 hospitalised, 7.66%.
The total figures for covid to date for which ethnicity is recorded is 4943 and breaksdown as follows:-
Maori – 742 cases, 6 deaths = .81%.
European – 1865 cases, 18 deaths = .96%.
Incidentally, the Vaxathon and accompanying rewards should encourage everyone to be more tardy next time.
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October 18, 2021 8:38am
- dcrane
  
  Unsurprising since Maori are 11 years younger on average. Could balance out any difference in comorbidities (not that I’ve seen any serious data on those yet).
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:55am
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    But 48% of Maori are obese, vs 29% of NZ population. All that racist food they eat.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:48am
  - I remember when
    
    Dr Rawiri Taonui states that Maori have the same covid risk outcomes at 44 that Europeans do at 65.
    
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    October 18, 2021 1:56pm
dime

The front page of stuff was hilarious this morning

THIS IS HOW IT ENDS

hahahaha

Mass exinction. Humans are awful etc etc

The only thing missing was – all men are rapists.

No wonder this shit show sold for a dollar.

I would LOVE to see their financials.
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October 18, 2021 8:39am
In Vino Veritas

Overnight, US Transportation Secretary, Pete Buttigieg (that’s Butt-egg-egg) has claimed that the supply chain crisis in the States is due to Biden’s successful management of the economy.
For the last two months, Pete has been on leave. Leave that was never announced. So, supply chain disaster and Transport secretary on leave and not responding. And Joe has really got the economy humming. Yep. Skyrocketing inflation, millions leaving their jobs, supply chain disaster, it’s going well.
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October 18, 2021 8:40am
- Master Mariner
  
  The leave has been reported as Maternity leave.
  
  Can you believe it.
  
  Our Minister for Transport is equally deluded.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:13am
- Master Mariner
  
  “The transportation secretary also was mocked by Fox News Host Tucker Carlson, who said Buttigieg and his husband were “trying to figure out how to breastfeed. No word on how that went.”
  
  https://www.rt.com/usa/537726-buttigieg-supply-chain-crisis-2022/
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:33pm
Maggie Pie

NZ Horrid reports…

‘Experts Grim Warning After Wild Party On North Shore’

UoA Research Scientist Dr Joel Rindelaub, well known PartyPooper and friend of Siouxie Wiles, says…
“Dry humping is not a Covid-friendly activity outside you bubble. I can say that with some certainty” 😛

https://twitter.com/nzherald/status/1449617668370276352
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October 18, 2021 8:40am
- Greg Ettridge
  
  Depends where you are Maggie, visiting a next door neighbor strictly forbidden in Victoria, but as many sex workers as one requires to tame the beast within is perfectly acceptable.
  No dry humping here in Victoria, it is all go at the rocket base, just don’t attempt to have a chat or a cuppa next door.
  There latest was a doozie, when you think they can’t get more stupid, they decide fully vaxxed could fly from Sydney to Melbourne and visit a household, but locals could only go 10 kms.
  The science is just so flexible.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:48am
  - Frank the tank
    
    Wait till the Blairite’s traffic light system is up and running – you’ve seen nothin’ yet.
    
    17 1
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    October 18, 2021 8:55am
  - RoboRob
    
    Lol. I hardly ever go to a cafe but did on Friday. Walk from car to door (mask off), put mask on, scan in. Order food (mask on). Sit, mask off. Finish, mask on, walk to door. Walk out the door, mask off.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:01am
    - Phronesis
      
      Yep, it’s like having a peeing section in the swimming pool.
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:46am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Retort of the day Phronesis, that made me smile! Especially as I was getting grumpy for accidentally turning on and seeing HRH doing her pulpit of truth crap!
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:45pm
    - Unity
      
      Totally beyond comprehension isn’t it RoboRob. A total farse.
      
      3 1
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      October 18, 2021 1:22pm
  - Rich Prick
    
    Like Apple’s terms of service, the more often we just hit “accept” the more extreme those terms become.
    
    6 1
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    October 18, 2021 9:03am
- Frank the tank
  
  How many are the sons and daughters of our CEOs and senior public servants Maggie?
  
  mee thinks there will be a few red faces if this group is ‘named and shamed’
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:43am
Southern Raider

Auckland is being sacrificed for ideology

When asked how NSW and VIC are able to start reopening at 70% and then more even freedom at 80% Ashley said “it’s different”. How the fuck are those states different apart from significantly higher populations, which should in theory make it easier for us than them

Then Ashley reiterated 90% double vaxxed and that Auckland borders will remain shit until the rest of the country has caught up with Aucklands rates

FFS Northland, East Cape or BoP could cause our countries economic powerhouse to remain shut
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October 18, 2021 8:42am
- dannz
  
  Auckland borders will remain “shit”. Well said.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:22am
- ecco
  
  Southern Raider, my take on sending out Bloomfield also was that the gutless wonders couldn’t give a toss about Auckland and are keeping it locked down this afternoon. They’ve already decided that in the weekend. Ardern prioritising the unvaccinated Maori and using them as an excuse to keep Auckland locked down. She knows they will never attain the vax rates she claims she wants to get to before opening up Auckland. It’s all just an excuse to give more money to her maori mates in the name of Covid and extend the covid ‘crisis’ out for her own control freak purposes.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:38am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Bloomfield has to use his “judgement” to require a lock down. Operating to a rule is showing lock of attention to the issue at the time. Such orders could likely be challenged. He is not superman but has a very narrow legal ravine to personally navigate. He gets the pay and has to take responsibility. I suspect he is ill fitted to the task.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:59am
- ClanMcleod
  
  “FFS Northland, East Cape or BoP could cause our countries economic powerhouse to remain shut.”
  
  No SR! At all times ALWAYS remember. All of these restrictions and impositions were decisions made by Ardern and her minions. The virus didn’t do this, BoP or anywhere else didn’t do this. No other person or group of people did this. ALWAYS remember. ARDERN DID THIS.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:50pm
Benedict Yu

This is a precursor of the Government’s plans to cut emissions from transport. It is worth reading in full. Quite sobering.

I live in Christchurch and the idea that these folk are going to stop driving their cars and walk and cycle everywhere is nuts. So looks like the plan is to literally dig up the roads and replace them with footpaths and cycleways. The language here is code for absolutely doing that.

Also more references to changing the planning processes to make it easier for the councils to overcome objections.

https://www.newsroom.co.nz/govt-climate-plan-sees-no-role-for-agriculture

“In order to achieve more ambitious rates of walking and cycling, the Government will review transport plans in Auckland, Tauranga, Hamilton, Wellington, Christchurch and Queenstown to ensure they’re aligned with the 20 percent reduction target. If they aren’t, then the plans could be revised to focus on high-density development along public transport corridors and reallocate “significant amounts of road/street space to rapidly deliver more dedicated bus lanes and safe separated bike/scooter lanes”.

Planning laws and regulations could be changed to “streamline” the requirements around consulting the public and “to make it easier for local government to reallocate road/street space … and create an expectation that this will occur”.

New highways and road expansions will also be reviewed to make sure they “are consistent with climate change targets and avoid inducing further travel by private motorised vehicles”.
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October 18, 2021 8:44am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Sorry an addendum. Just note the sinister tone here.
  
  “Planning laws and regulations could be changed to “streamline” the requirements around consulting the public and “to make it easier for local government to reallocate road/street space … and create an expectation that this will occur”.”
  
  This is a gold classic example of the Greens in action. They want people to participate in democracy. So long as you agree with them.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:47am
  - All_on_Red
    
    Don’t worry Benedict,
    Superman is onto it.
    https://screenrant.com/superman-jon-kent-climate-change-fight-dc-comics/
    
    However, like any modern Hero he does seem to have his weakness.
    https://babylonbee.com/news/instead-of-kryptonite-new-lgbtq-superman-will-be-crippled-by-someone-using-wrong-pronouns
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:57am
  - Suze Wainwright
    
    Kia ora
    James Shaw tries to assure us that we really just don’t know what’s actually good for us all (and apparently Rod Carr is an ‘excellent’ speaker…).
    
    16 5
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    October 18, 2021 8:57am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    You only have to look at how green and labour mp’s treat submitters at select committee hearings.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:12am
  - graham
    
    That’s quite amazing that this has actually been put into print. To sum up:
    
    The Government will look at the transport plans to make sure they’re acceptable; if they aren’t then the Government will change them to what they want them to be; and they’ll change whatever laws need to be changed so they don’t have to do that irritating “democracy” thing where they have to consult the public (as if they know what’s good for them anyway!)
    
    Unbelievable.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:50am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  New Zealand needs urgent and significant land-use change, not just to reduce carbon emissions, but also to reduce the overall impact of industrialized agriculture on already fragile ecosystems.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:50am
  - Taieri
    
    Thankfully this is already happening. A number of farms previously used to poison our pristine environment with methane coming from the livestock is being converted by their progressive owners to carbon farming. Pine cone steak for dinner anyone? Medium or rare?
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:23am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Forestry for shorter-term capital gains and carbon credits may well be just as damaging to the environment as other monocultures such as dairying or vineyards.
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    How much time have you spent with farmers and on farms? Talking to them about how they farm, how they look after their animals, and their farms?
    
    I have spent a lot of time doing that over the last 3 years and you don’t know what you are talking about.
    
    There are SOME parts of New Zealand where intensive, irrigated dairy farming is unsustainable.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:30am
    - Taieri
      
      How much time have you spent with farmers and on farms?
      ————–
      
      Son, grandson and great-grandson of farmers. That’s me…
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:50am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Thanks Benedict. Now perhaps it is true that I can only have an valid opinion on agriculture if I get my gumboots dirty. But I respect your opinions on many subjects, and have not questioned your credentials to comment on vaccination, etc. So perhaps you could give others the courtesy they should deserve on other topics. I suspect very few Kiwiblog commenters have genuine expertise on many, many of the subjects on which they opine.
      
      Many dairy farmers have taken on unsustainable debt loads that can only be justified by production levels well above sustainable loads. They are, essentially, farming for capital gain, with the ecological costs socialized and left as a debt for our descendants.
      
      I suspect you would disagree with that opinion. I am happy to discuss.
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:58am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “Many dairy farmers have taken on unsustainable debt loads that can only be justified by production levels well above sustainable loads. ”
        
        Some dairy farmers. Yes land use change will happen but it has been happening for 150 years.
        
        Also it is relevant that intensive dairy farmers were given consents by Regional Councils to undertake that farming in the first decade of the 2000s.
        
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        October 18, 2021 1:54pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        And you have a high degree of trust that regional councils made very good decisions from 2000 to 2009?
        
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        October 18, 2021 1:59pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Yeah right. Strip out all the farm lands and speculate on them for carbon credits.
    
    The world is acting like it has a blindfold on. Carbon is not an issue only in the minds of the deluded. The sub atomic energy sources now appearing will provide affordable safe electricity for all. It will power everything from watches to ships.
    Greenies dreams shattered.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:08am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Is NZ a CO2 emitter or absorber in real terms Mikey ? Not using the fake accounting from the political Kyoto accord, but in real terms ?
    
    Answers on a postcard please…
    
    3 1
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    October 18, 2021 12:09pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Carbon emissions are only one factor to consider in improving New Zealand’s environmental stewardship.
      
      1 5
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      October 18, 2021 2:01pm
- RoboRob
  
  The sillyness in a place like CHCH is that as it is mostly so flat it is already very cycling friendly. The new cycle ways have just slowed traffic and make more start /stop journeys. Anyone with basic car knowledge would understand that the less start/stop the my efficient and environmently friendly a journey is. If they really wanted to reduce car emissions they would work to streamline car journeys. This would be especially good for freight and couriers etc.
  
  Yes that might increase car use, but ev’s are coming anyway.
  
  p.s. I’m a cyclist.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:55am
- RW Capitalist
  
  ” focus on high-density development along public transport corridors ”
  Vertical slums (the “projects” in Chicago)
  High rises in London
  All pulled down, because they did not work and caused social deprivation to a whole generation of people.
  But as all socialist mantra’s go…
  “It’ll work this time, if we just……….”
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:59am
- alex Masterley
  
  I am on a community consultation committee in Auckland looking at work on an arterial route. The number of car haters in AT and on the committee is unbeliveable.
  Little if any business representation.
  The focus is on buses and cycle ways. which i am trying to counteract.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:10am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    The stupidly of building a completely separate roads network for buses is unbelievable, but that is exactly what is happening on pakuranga road as we speak.
    
    No money to upgrade the old existing 3 lane to a 4 lane bridge but plenty for a new 2 lane bridge just for a handful of buses a day.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:17am
  - Nickc2
    
    Keep up the good work Alex.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:43am
  - septic skeptic
    
    Canyon confirm how much notice is or isn’t taken of submissions suggesting they leave the speed limits alone? Like when they ask for consultation but say “doing nothing is not an option”.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:48am
    - septic skeptic
      
      Can you
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:20am
  - alloytoo
    
    Don’t bother.
    
    The city will hollow out from the CBD, and they will wonder what happened when the big corporates sell up.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:26am
bronny1

I’m also in Christchurch Benedict, and work from home. I’ve lived here, about 6km from central city for about 7 years and think i’ve used public transport about half a dozen times. 4 of those were through the Lyttelton tunnel with my bike. There are literally no places that i go that are covered by reasonable bus transport, except perhaps the airport, but that’s a 90+min trip (so not that reasonable). And normally i have a dog or 3 with me, who are not welcome on the bus.

Do they not realise that not everyone lives on a bus route and works in the central city?
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October 18, 2021 8:49am
- alex Masterley
  
  It like that in Auckland.
  Every transport planner is obsessed with getting people on public transport into the CBD. The reality is that very few travel into the CBD. East west south or north are the main travel routes. Offices and workplaces are abandoning the CBD.
  I was asked if I go in town recently. The answer is no, unless i absolutely have to.
  Many people are like that. The CBD sucks anyway. Too many beggars and shitty 2 dollar shops.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:14am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Correct queen street is a mess.
    
    Best to be avoided.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:19am
    - lifesgood
      
      I’m ashamed of it.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:01am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It is a shame that you Aucklanders don’t care for your city centre. Perhaps you should move to a nicer city.
    
    1 24
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    October 18, 2021 10:01am
    - alex Masterley
      
      The state of the CBD is all the councils work.
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:10am
    - graham
      
      The city centre is a very small part of the Auckland region, occupying just 433 hectares out of 489,400 hectares (0.088%). There is a LOT more to Auckland than the CBD.
      
      Unless you have a very good reason to go into the CBD, why would you bother? Depending on what you’re after, there are plenty of shops, restaurants, businesses, etc elsewhere, where you don’t have to cope with the hassle and expense of parking (unless of course you take public transport … pffft, like that’s gonna happen).
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:00am
    - graham
      
      Oh, and I agree with alex … my office is in the CBD, although I haven’t been there for two months due to lockdown, but last time I wandered down Queen Street it was overrun with beggars, a high percentage of the businesses were closed, and the council had tried their very best to ruin it by using those hideous concrete blocks and planter boxes to cut down road space and build a cycle lane so that cyclists could have the free run down Queen Street while breathing in the fumes from all the cars and buses that were stuck in traffic jams.
      
      For me personally, it’s far easier to go shopping in Albany, Silverdale or Orewa.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:10am
- MCos
  
  Ninety minutes from the airport.
  Did you detour through Ashburton to drop off the dogs?
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:17am
  - bronny1
    
    If i took my car i could drop the dogs off in Ash-vegas en route. But no, i choose the half hour driver instead.
    https://www.google.com/search?q=bus+route+sumner+christchurch+airport&newwindow=1&rlz=1C1CHBF_enNZ805NZ805&sxsrf=AOaemvI2NcjqHNaidbnKmafD2D4NmlLyQA%3A1634503465040&ei=KYtsYZvuAYqF4t4PnpuNwAM&ved=0ahUKEwjbpqvzp9LzAhWKgtgFHZ5NAzgQ4dUDCA4&uact=5&oq=bus+route+sumner+christchurch+airport&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBQgAEM0COgcIABBHELADOgQIIRAKOgcIIxCwAhAnOggIABAIEA0QHjoGCAAQBxAeSgQIQRgAUO5XWI5-YPOCAWgGcAJ4AYABswKIAb8gkgEIMC4zLjEzLjKYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:46am
Littletramp

How obvious is it that the headline covid story on Newshub this morning has been written and provided by the Labour Party propaganda committee.
Almost every govt talking point covered in one article, more like a daily email from the Prime Minister.
It is more apparent each day, that the entire NZ mainstream media has been taken over by an invading culture force.
The stench of B/S is overpowering.
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October 18, 2021 8:50am
- ecco
  
  Ardern and Labour send out their press releases/advertorials to the media outlets on Sundays. Patently obvious from what you hear/read on Monday mornings in the MSM.
  
  Newshub (Mediaworks) and the Maori TV would have benefitted handsomely from the media bribe fund to stage the Vaxathon coverage. I’m guessing a couple of million $$ each for doing that at a minimum. Newshub News at 6pm, and the AM show were the last bastion of objective reporting of the government covid response that Ardern had to conquer and gain control of.
  
  How could Cam Wallace turn down the vaxathon coverage job? They would have be grossly overpaid for, at non commercial rates, in exchange for control of editorial coverage of their news and current affairs programmes. There is no such thing as a free lunch and Ardern has finally got that last MSM outlet under her control.
  
  As for the money that would have been given to Maori tv, that is just yet another free junket for that part of her voter base.
  
  I’m guessing there will never be any reporting of how much was paid to these two tv stations or any sunlight shone on whether these payments were at commercial rates.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:36am
dime

Any chance Jacinda could offer some proof on a couple of things?

1) “I was working on a vaxathon for a few months”

2) maybe stump up the invoice for your workers flight to gisbourne. show us it came from a personal credit card, or that you reimbursed her. easy to do.

also, did she ever figure out how to take a 20% pay cut that time she locked us down? you know, the lockdown that was way shorter than this one.
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October 18, 2021 8:51am
- RichardF
  
  I watched a bit of the vaxathon and it was incredibly cringey and looked like something put together in about 5 minutes. It was not something that was worked on for months.
  
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  October 18, 2021 12:20pm
  - Bobba Fret
    
    Well they only got the idea once John Key suggested it so they didn’t have a lot of time!
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:53pm
RW Capitalist

Impertinent question
Is NZ several steps down the road to a 3rd world country?
Record numbers at food banks
record numbers living in motels
record numbers getting housing allowance
Business surviving (if they are) on resurgence payments, not profits
People unable to get surgery
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/126640958/mother-30-in-daily-agony-during-indefinite-wait-for-hysterectomy-to-rid-endometriosis
people being arrested and clogging courts…for being outside
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October 18, 2021 8:52am
- RW Capitalist
  
  Not to mention
  rising inflation
  Massive borrowing
  etc
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:53am
- Lucia Maria
  
  The mother in agony 3 weeks out of 4 for suspected endometriosis story is very disturbing. I have endo, and it’s not something that just happened where I was fine one day and then in agony for weeks at a time. I wouldn’t be surprised if there is something more serious going on with that level of pain involved for that amount of time. Especially since she had a termination (guessing that’s an abortion) last year.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:26am
- Ra Henare
  
  3rd World Countries dont
  Have food banks.
  Homeless being put up in motels
  Residents getting a housing allowance
  Business getting Government funding
  Etc ETc
  
  What you have described is a failed Socialist wannabe style Government.
  
  The first step in Nationalisation.
  Take over the fast test laboratory.
  etc etc
  
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  October 19, 2021 11:48am
Maggie Pie

Had to larf at ZB’s Kate Hawkesby this morning.
She described the relationship between Cindy and her Electorate Secretary, well known wedding singer Barbara Ward, (who just happens to be David Parker’s partner) as …..’somewhat incestuous’

LOL!!
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October 18, 2021 8:56am
- Frank the tank
  
  Is Chris Knox the entertainment for the event of the century?
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:00am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Frank, no one need worry, while Jacinda works the room at the event of the century, Clarke will be at the bar putting out the vibe……
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:59am
- dubya
  
  Barbara Ward huh. Guessing Chris Knox isn’t performing at the Royal wedding?
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:20am
  - alex Masterley
    
    One of the many reasons I dislike David Parker.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:11am
Master Mariner

Good article, Covers most bases.

“Everything is now conveniently blamed on Covid-19, with causations and fearmongering reaching epically absurd proportions. Australia locked down the entire city of Perth (population 2 million plus) after discovering a single new coronavirus case in late January. Nearly eight months later, another single case resulted in the lockdown of the capital city of Canberra (population over 400,000). This insanity is just the tip of the Covid-19 iceberg.”

And relevant comment regarding Energy security in Europe,

“With winter approaching, the need to operationalize Nord Stream 2 becomes more urgent than ever. Behind the scenes, however, bureaucrats in Brussels remain clueless.”

https://www.rt.com/op-ed/537664-supply-chains-shortage-crisis/

The real question is how is NZ doing going forward.?
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October 18, 2021 9:01am
- kevn
  
  @MMariner…. Tell me about the new 3m x 3m shipping containers I hear about. Are they a reality? Thanks
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:29am
  - sooty
    
    They will work lovely on rail and road designed for 2.4m wide! Decant on the wharf?
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:02am
  - Master Mariner
    
    Sorry Kevn, news to me.
    
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    October 18, 2021 11:41am
- Fletch
  
  There has been a study done in Canada on mortality rates from 2010 until 2021 showing that there was no pandemic but that the govt response caused more deaths.
  
  We analyzed all-cause mortality by week (ACM/w) for Canada, and for the Canadian provinces, and by age group and sex, from January 2010 through March 2021; in comparison with data for other countries and their regions or counties.
  
  We find that there is no extraordinary surge in yearly or seasonal mortality in Canada, which can be ascribed to a COVID-19 pandemic; and that several prominent features in the ACM/w in the COVID-19 period exhibit anomalous province-to-province heterogeneity that is irreconcilable with the known behaviour of epidemics of viral respiratory diseases (VRDs).
  
  https://bit.ly/3aOdVUC
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:52am
- KevO'Brien
  
  As Bloomfield’s personal judgement is required to make a lock down order that might be challengeable in Court. His processing could be examined and his planned orders effectively nullified.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:25am
Ruahine

So it is Monday 18th in Auckland.
It is also the same date in Wellington where there are going to be more revelations from the petulant Prime Minister of New Zealand. As reported by the taxpayer funded media outlet called The Spinoff a new childish game called traffic lights is going to be rolled out to lead us all out of the wilderness caused by the political virus called Covid 19.
The upshot of this likely to be more blackmail, bully, bossiness, and abuse. There is also likely to be more promotion of the myth of Maori ‘Stupidity’ and the thousands will die mantra by the gov’ts tame health despots. Just suck it up people. ‘We’ only need to keep going for another week and it will all be under control that is all it takes. A ‘short sharp lockdown’ is the answer to all ‘your’ problems.
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October 18, 2021 9:06am
Yvette

Smoke and mirrors
Auckland covid case numbers – is 47 a greater threat than 71 cases?

17 October 2021 – Number of new community cases: 51, Auckland: 47
Tests processed in Auckland (last 24 hours): 8,895

14 October 2021 – Number of new community cases: 71, Auckland 71
Tests processed in Auckland (last 24 hours): 13,960 [1]

In the above two examples, the tests “in the last 24 hours” detect the community cases given.
So dividing the cases by the tests give a percentage that multiplied again by 1,000 gives the number of cases per 1,000 tests, a constant.

There is a difference of 5,065 tests between to two days’ test totals.
So 17 October 47 cases it is 5.283 cases per 1,000 tests
14 October 71 cases is 5.086 cases per 1,000 tests

So yesterday’s 47 cases may in fact show a greater spread of covid infections than 14 October’s high 71 cases.
Go figure – and see if you get an answer different to the one above.

Note: the test figures above (and actually the case numbers perhaps) may be screwed up a little in that –
The Government has slipped below its “gold standard” benchmark of turning around COVID-19 test results – and no one’s alerted the minister [Dr Ayesha Verrall] who set this target. This outbreak, the number of tests returned within 24 hours is 78 percent. Over the past week it dropped to 73 percent, meaning of the 152,763 tests taken last week, 41,246 came back late. [2] – but if the screw-up is vaguely constant the principle still applies, unless the whole testing reportage is dopey and evidence of yet another Government non-delivery – even in a detail like these fairly crucial numbers.

[1] https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-news-and-media-updates
[2] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-ministry-of-health-slips-below-gold-standard-for-covid-test-result-turnaround.html
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October 18, 2021 9:09am
- Master Mariner
  
  When asked to get a PCR test prior to going to Singapore I was told it will be at least 48 hrs to bget result and thereby as a requirement it has to be less than 48 hrs pre departure.
  As well as a ART ( banned).
  
  So the question is,
  If it takes 48 hrs to process a PCR test then really we must be getting results for 2 days prior. ?
  
  If thats the case then we are really getting fed misinformation again as Daily numbers will not correspond with tests completed?
  Thoughts.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:45am
ecco

Bloomfield been kicked out there on Hosking’s show this morning to deliver the news that ‘we aren’t quite there’. I’m assuming they are taking about Auckland lockdown lifting today.

The way the gutless Labour Party works is that if it’s good news being delivered they/Ardern are out there like a shot in the media with that news. If it’s bad then Bloomfield gets shoved out there to ‘run interference’ for them.

There was all sorts of ifs, buts maybes with Bloomfield’s obfuscation this morning. Will have vaccine passport by end of November. End of November? That’s some 6 weeks away FFS. They sure aren’t in any hurry to open up.

Sounds like they still want to keep their iron vice grip on the Auckland lockdown. Absolutely no pragmatism being shown there. Doesn’t really matter what the vax rates are. They just spin it any which way they feel like. What would be the problem with vaccinated Aucklanders being able to travel out of Auckland?

I’m predicting they’ll wheel out their lame ‘traffic light’ system today. Ie another bullshit idea that’s really just another mechanism to hide behind, and in practice, will just amount to keeping Auckland in level 3 lockdown with no real change today. Killing off untold businesses.

What a bunch of inept career politicians without one ounce of commercial sensibility in them, totally beholden to their gaggle of non elected ‘expert’ scientists. There will be a huge brain drain of our best and brightest at the first available opportunity. My prediction is another non event of an announcement this afternoon for Auckland. It’ll be more weeks long/months long snails pace ‘changes and lame duck initiatives. Sadly.
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October 18, 2021 9:12am
- Fletch
  
  Bloomfield also mentioned he was having trouble with the My Covid website entering his driver’s license number. So they are doing it – hooking up your driver’s license and other info with your vaccine status. I, for one, will not be joining up. I suppose we will all be issued with a card that says the same and they will be checking your “papers” wherever you go. This is authoritarian BS.
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:48am
  - Ian Boag
    
    Not a problem. Facial recognition is getting good enough that there is no need for “papers”. Fingerprint as a backup ….. 🙂
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:16am
    - alloytoo
      
      Facial recognition struggles with masks. That may have been a misstep.
      
      9 0
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      October 18, 2021 10:33am
      - sooty
        
        Who would have thought going to the bank with your mask on!
        
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        October 18, 2021 11:34am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Papers please Ian….
      
      You for one no doubt welcome our new fascist overlords.
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:15pm
      - Ian Boag
        
        welcome our new fascist overlords.
        
        Did I give that impression? Sorry …
        
        If “papers” means “proof of vaccination” I wouldn’t give a shit. Like how I can be asked for a driver’s licence when behind the wheel of a car or entering a pub or buying booze. Although being 75 it’s been a while since anyone wanted to know how old I am 🙂
        
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        December 18, 2020 2:58pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        No, nothing like that. Don’t be facile.
        
        2 0
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        October 18, 2021 5:29pm
  - surfing
    
    Someone misconfigured the regular expression?
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:19am
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The more enthusiastic they get the more legal hurdles to jump over. The Bill of Rights is a bogeyman for the unwary.
    
    Govt vaxers and trackers have no rights except what the people will give them.
    The Govt is not supreme relative to the People.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:32am
    - Ian Boag
      
      The Govt is not supreme relative to the People.
      
      I suppose. Then again, remind me who put “The Govt” there … ?
      
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      December 18, 2020 10:50am
      - kevn
        
        @iboag… Who indeed. No-one I know.
        
        10 2
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        October 18, 2021 11:13am
    - JibberJabber
      
      If you let Politicians break the Law in an “Emergency”, they will create an “Emergency” in order to break the Law.
      
      10 2
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      October 18, 2021 11:39am
  - Surely Knott
    
    100% Fletch. Here is some quotes from UK politicians on vax passports.
    
    Backbench conservative mp’s: “‘Vaccine passports would set an alarming precedent where our medical records become public and some people are subjected to discrimination as they seek to go about their everyday lives. Surely that isn’t the kind of society that we want to create?”
    
    Another senior Tory MP, Sir Desmond Swayne added: “It is contrary to all our values and traditions to have to prove that we have undergone a medical procedure to go about our lawful business.
    
    “It is coercive and discriminatory, the abandonment of liberal values; a frightful precedent to set. I am appalled that a Conservative Government could contemplate such a measure. If we start down this road the future is dark.”
    
    Signed by numerous uk politicians , scientists, psychologist.
    
    Meanwhile in NZ, our own tory government and Liberal party are calling to add more penalties to those who don’t conform. Maybe I’m missing somethign but I thought Liberal meant small government, and democracy, freedom and choice.
    Clearly it does not. With not a single major party speaking out, i will be voting either New Cons. or Outdoors Party this year.
    
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    October 18, 2021 11:35am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Latest UK government figures as per this:https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1025358/Vaccine-surveillance-report-week-41.pdf
      
      Around 98% of the adult UK population (presumably over 16) have Covid antibodies, from either vaccination or prior infection. They estimate 19.7% are from infection, and the balance presumably from vaccination. This does not quite match the estimated vaccinated population at around 60% with 2 shots and close to 70% with one.
      
      If correct, at 97% that is just about everyone. So if the vaccine prevented infections it would be all over completely, unfortunately it isn’t. But if correct, Covid is now almost entirely a disease of the vaccinated. Which seems not right based on other numbers, cases by vaccinated and unvaccinated reported on a few days ago where the vaccinated were catching Covid at greater rates than the unvaccinated. Perhaps this establishes my suggestion that the unvaccinated were disproportionately “naturally immune” ?
      
      Need more work to see where this fits in context.
      
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      October 18, 2021 5:38pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It is not called “My Covid”. Its is My Health
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/digital-health/other-digital-health-initiatives/my-health-account
    
    How are you going to get into bars, cafes, pubs etc if you don’t sign up?
    
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    October 18, 2021 1:57pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      How? (we’ve been here before, I know!)
      
      1. Fight.
      
      2. Don’t accept any notion of inevitability.
      
      3. Don’t capitulate. Annexation of your inalienable right to civil liberties is immoral.
      
      4. Go to step 1.
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:09pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Won’t be just your vax status, but whether you have paid all your fines, and then if you have a positive “social credit” score.
        
        Why let a crisis go to waste…
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:39pm
- Tom Hunter
  
  The way the gutless Labour Party works is that if it’s good news being delivered they/Ardern are out there like a shot in the media with that news. If it’s bad then Bloomfield gets shoved out there to ‘run interference’ for them.
  
  Standard politics actually. The other good one is to simply report only half of a story, since half-truths are vastly more effective than outright lies. Best of all, just don’t talk about it. You can claim editorial privilege.
  
  In any case, what all this means is that case numbers and vax rates have turned from being helpful to the narrative of the government to hurting it. So just dump the video/voice and issue a press release: faces are nice and numbers are boring.
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:20am
thetiedarch

Why is Stuff bombarding us suddenly with articles about how the world ends and climate change.

What are we being buttered up for?

I see we’re also now giving $1.3B to 3rd world countries for climate change projects. I’d love to see the transparency on how that money gets spent in these countries.
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October 18, 2021 9:21am
- Inandout
  
  arch, we are well on our way to feeding the inflation monster. Those of us old enough to remember the 80s and 90s know how inflation eats into a whole range of services. Giving away (borrowed) money is lunacy and not lessened one iota by the cry of ‘we now live in covid times’, as if that excuses all illogical actions. I, and I guess a large percentage of our population, am over this bloody flu scare that is decimating our country. I have made arrangements for the coming storm; have any of you done the same?
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:12am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    CPI (YoY) 4.9
    (QoQ) 2.2
    
    fantastic //
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:49am
- graham
  
  rouppe mentioned that there has been a slew of “end of the world” stories, and that’s obviously Stuff’s current “agenda of the week”.
  
  This is why I stopped reading Stuff’s website some time ago. I found it increasingly difficult to trust them to deliver balanced, impartial, and unbiased news and analysis. They have a number of different agendas which they passionately pursue, and these agendas are quite obviously shaping their reporting.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:20am
  - Flossie
    
    Stop reading for sure…paying to do so? You’d have to be mad!
    
    6 1
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    October 18, 2021 10:54am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What Vote Item is that coming out of? More expenditure of Public Monies without authority or borrowing without account?
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:34am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    [Deleted – enough of the snarky bullying comments. Grow up. Mod.]
    
    4 3
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    October 18, 2021 11:45am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Just trying to help him. He could start his own research here:
      https://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/estimates/vote-foreign-affairs-external-sector-estimates-2021-22-html#section-7
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:49pm
- ecco
  
  That’s Stuff’s deflection theme of the week. Got to have some sort of diversion from the news that Ardern isn’t going to open up Auckland. Probably growing case numbers as well, that they know all about over the weekend.
  
  Government using the MSM as a tool to deflect all the crappy news they are going to deliver to people on Mondays. They can’t wheel out any more Kris Faafoi, ill concieved legislation or bridge cycle lane cancelling announcements. No more ideas in that department left.
  
  Labour have a number of obfuscation techniques in their tool box. All reliant on a complicit and bought out NZ msm.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:54am
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Climate change passport to limit the amount of travel,fuel consumption,food intake etc etc.
  
  What? did you think they’d stop at vax passports?
  
  You’ve let the cat out of the bag, you cannot put thecat back in the bag.
  
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  October 18, 2021 12:35pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  More money for the munchkins. COP 26 is coming up shortly in Scotland so an excuse to berate climate change deniers and promote the impossible.
  It wouldn’t be laughable, but they completely ignore the earth shaking developments showing that hydrogen can release productive energy simply, cheaply and without radiation. The processes are also being considered to remediate the old nuclear power station wastes. Don’t let the lack of hope overtake you.
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:20pm
Maggie Pie

My partner was flicking thru a few of my old ‘Society Mags’ yesterday and came across a photo of HDPA standing next to Bazza.
He remarked on how gawjus she looked, but thought she definitely wasn’t as tall as she sounds.

Just saying.
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October 18, 2021 9:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Who is HDPA?
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:02am
  - Ehlana
    
    Heather du Plessis-Allan, identified by Google first as “Barry Soper’s wife”.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:46am
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Wouldn’t mean sh*t to milkey, Ehlana.
      He’s more your ‘Danny Watson’ fanboi.
      
      17 3
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      October 18, 2021 10:54am
      - sooty
        
        Or a Marcus Lushite!
        
        10 2
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        October 18, 2021 11:31am
      - Jack5
        
        x
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:26pm
    - JibberJabber
      
      Wasting ur time replying E, it’s a common leftist tactic to “pretend (or not)” to be ignorant when they don’t have an argument, he’s grasped the typo of a capital D instead of a lower case d as his cunning gotcha.
      
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      October 18, 2021 11:18am
  - ecco
    
    You should listen to HDPA’s show in the afternoons. You’d love her show Milky ?
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:56am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    You seem to be out-of-touch, MMA.
    
    Perhaps you’ve been spending too much time on KB.
    
    7 2
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    October 18, 2021 11:56am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      It is true that I probably don’t listen to as much talkback radio as some of the older folk commenting on Kiwiblog.
      
      2 8
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      October 18, 2021 1:45pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        “It is true that I probably don’t listen”
        See what I did there Mike? Things that you do, so taken out of context
        
        2 0
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        October 18, 2021 6:39pm
    - sooty
      
      You are good, Maggy!
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:49pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    High Density Poly Amilide ?
    
    4 0
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    October 18, 2021 12:17pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Indeed, now there is a useful material.
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:43pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Oh, a radio talkback host? Suitable listening for the elderly, then. I suppose the opinions of radio entertainers give Maggie and her friend something to chat about at the Otahuhu tennis club.
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:15am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Mikey, your obsession with Otahuhu cheapens you. Get over yourself, you are at about 0-12 with Maggie Pie.
    
    On top of that, I’m not sure that there even is an Otahuhu Tennis Club as such.
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:22pm
    - MCos
      
      It’s on Portage Rd next to the cemetery.
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:37pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      What’s not to love about Otahuhu? Were I unfortunate enough to have to reside in Auckland, I would certainly live there, or at least in one of the adjacent isthmian suburbs.
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:42pm
      - Jack5
        
        “Isthmian” – easier typed than pronounced.
        
        Could we ~~say~~ write of people who disliked such suburbs, that they are anti-isthmianistic? ?
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:24pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        What about asthmatic isthmians?
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:00pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        All of Auckland is basically “isthmisian”, except the new suburbs like Pokeno and Albany. Though I guess some are more isthmisian than others.
        
        You could get quite involved with this isthmus thingy…
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:42pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        Yer, we would just not allow you on the Shore.
        That guy walking around with sunnies, cricket hat, shorts and socks in crocs?
        Fucking Wellington visitor all over LOL!
        
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        October 18, 2021 6:43pm
dime

Do you think the elites who make decisions on lockdowns, actually understand the trash population?

Do they understand that trash doesnt lock down?

1) trash still beat their kids
2) trash still loves the P
3) trash didnt hand back their illegal guns

etc etc etc

why on earth would they think that they will lock down? cause aunty jacinda asks nicely??

these morons calling for their “level 4 cirucit breaker” can eat shit.

if you want a level 4 – have it! say hi when you get out. lock yourself in all safe while the rest of us go on with our day.
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October 18, 2021 9:48am
- mikenmildagain
  
  And how do you classify yourself, dime? Elite or trash?
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:16am
  - dime
    
    idiot.
    
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    October 18, 2021 11:23am
    - MCos
      
      That wasn’t one of the choices.
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:39pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        But it seems he chose correctly nevertheless.
        
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        October 18, 2021 1:35pm
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    Yeah i’m confused, seems if you don’t listen to the elite you’re in with the meth heads and child bashers.
    
    This dime dudes only issue with the “elite” is they aren’t being elite enough.
    
    Didn’t give the elite enough guns back. lol. ok.
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:39pm
    - dime
      
      something tells me you confuse easily.
      
      i’ll break it down to the barely employable leftist level. hopefully you can then grasp it.
      
      1) part of the population is nothing but trash.
      2) that part of the population is infected with the rona and it is running wild.
      
      the point of the post – do the people making the decisions at government level actually understand just how trashy these people are? and that they will not lock down.
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:01pm
      - Liberal Cliche
        
        The only trash are the people that took the vax and continue to insist others take it because their medicine doesn’t work otherwise *apparently*.
        
        The non-trash are the ones who took it reluctantly having succumbed to these cry-bullies.
        
        Cry “leftist” as you insist on conforming with everything the left tells you to do, your only argument against them is they aren’t doing their policies and job good enough. lol. Petty semantics. Argue tiny details then pretend you’re the *opposition* You must be a National voter…
        
        At least the un-vaxed have more conviction and stand by their beliefs, you’re all over the place, inquisitor clothed in jingoistic patriotism – the trashist of trash.
        
        You ARE the left.
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:24pm
Yvette

More smoke and mirrors
Super Saturday
If one takes the average number of 1st doses given each day in the week before the Saturday Special and subtract that average from those 1st doses given on Saturday, you get a rough estimate of the extra doses resulting from all the promotion.

Then dividing that extra number by the same daily average, projects how many days worth the promotion advanced people getting their 1st doses and in fact the result is about one and a half days, or 36 hours.

And, as alluded to yesterday – will all the Italian undertakers who have already prematurely buried those future clientele, who without covid may have survived a year or too more, now suffer a slight lull in business for the next couple of years – will vaccination centres here similarly see a slight drop off, that the 36 hours worth of vaccinations will now even out in about as many days?
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October 18, 2021 10:09am
NoFax

My prediction today is that the Government will roll out its so-called traffic light system – maybe in place on Wednesday. This will be cast as though it is no real change, and still very strict – there are still people afraid (caused by the Government and the media). Don’t be surprised by some arbitrary thing so it looks like they are tough.

In effect, this will end the lockdown in Auckland, Northland, and the parts of the Waikato. This will be of course not acknowledged.

The reasons I believe this will happen are two-fold. First, most people are getting on with their lives already. The restrictions are more and more being ignored. This government loves to be in front of things and look like they are “leading”.

Second, and far more importantly, we cannot afford it. Despite the the Government’s protests they know the economy is not doing well. And even them know that cannot last forever.
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October 18, 2021 10:32am
- dime
  
  “his government loves to be in front of things and look like they are “leading”.”
  
  yep!
  
  although I word it as – they are terrified of not looking like they are in control, or someone/ thing other than the glorious, infallible state has taken the lead.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:52am
- alex Masterley
  
  Just been out and about. People are already adapting and using work arounds for the lock downs. Gyms with exercise sessions on the footpath…
  People are ignoring the doom saying experts and getting on with things.
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:04am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

When the ‘MP for Tijuana’ tweeted these jab-stats on Saturday….
it made us realise just what a minority WE’VE become in our own country 🙁

https://twitter.com/RMarchNZ/status/1449214054698864646

(God only knows what he’s doing with his taxpayer funded 4k a week….bet he’s hardly had his lazy-ass out of bed for the last 10 weeks.)
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October 18, 2021 10:49am
- dime
  
  hes a worthless communist troll.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:53am
- JibberJabber
  
  I’m just so glad he’s cured Inequality in the great state of Mexico on behalf of the local Sinaloan ~~Cartel~~ er…government.
  We are so fortunate to have him bring his expertise here, to lift us out of our poverty spiritual and material.
  I wonder if he has any franchises available or have the Mongs, HHeads and B Power bros scored them all?
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:27am
Flossie

Just saw a photo of James Shaw and thought to myself “is he the most un-inspirational looking MP or not?”
I know there’s a lot of competition for that title in parliament but he’d have to be a finalist at least.
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October 18, 2021 10:51am
- dime
  
  You’ll find this hard to believe, but the Green party struggles to attract quality men.
  
  Very hard to find an Alpha male who is a Green.
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:06am
  - JibberJabber
    
    C’mon dime, the Unicorn they rode in on has to be an Alpha surely(Shirley)…doesn’t it????
    
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    October 18, 2021 11:13am
  - Flossie
    
    Only quality “men” in short supply? I’m not overly impressed with the rest of them either.
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:39pm
Jack5

As gangs wage tribal style war …

Maorification of New Zealand’s Western law system is described in an article in the Guardian.

“What we’re seeing now is a Cambrian explosion of activity where the superior courts are in several contexts affirming tikanga Maori,” says high court judge Christian Whata. It’s a shift which could profoundly alter the way New Zealand law is applied in areas as diverse as defamation and trust law. Ultimately, it represents the indigenisation of a legal system which has been dominated by English thinking since its inception.

What sort of a legal system did Maori develop without written language and thus only oral records? Did Maori have anything like a national system in any way?

Has there be any political debate on this? Is there any party that speaks for the majority non-Maori population?

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/17/explosion-of-ideas-how-maori-concepts-are-being-incorporated-into-new-zealand-law
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October 18, 2021 11:02am
- Cobolt24
  
  It’s very hard to. Anyone who speaks up about it will be baselessly branded as racist.
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:26am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Do you think only societies with a written language were capable of developing laws?
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:34am
  - NoFax
    
    Maori were a pre-legal society. They did not make a distinction between ethics, traditions, customs, and law.
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:24pm
    - Jack5
      
      For Milky (11.34):
      
      Give us some details, please, of the pre-colonisation Maori legal system, or code, which encompassed all tribes in these islands?
      
      Any tribe, sub-tribe, group, even the local pigeon club can draw up a set of rules, but without a written recording system, how can these be reliably passed down the generations?
      
      Ominously, even many in the NZ Law Society seems to be pressing for incorporating Maori law into our legal system, as the link below shows.
      
      Economic development and legal systems are closely related. The way communal, unalienable land hampers Maori development is an example of this. Maorification of our legal system threatens our economic future.
      
      The liberal elite, including lawyers, seem to have an idyll of a renamed New Zealand becoming a temperate-climate Tonga or Samoa, with Whites and Asian citizens as tolerated worker-guests.
      
      If that’s the goal, they aren’t talking about biculturism.
      
      https://www.lawsociety.org.nz/news/lawtalk/lawtalk-issue-943/inspiring-indigenous-legal-education-for-aotearoa/
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:14pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        You are asking a question that I am not qualified in any way to answer.
        Perhaps you could start by examining some of the sources cited here:
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_history
        
        Certain jurists and historians of legal process have seen legal history as the recording of the evolution of laws and the technical explanation of how these laws have evolved with the view of better understanding the origins of various legal concepts; some consider legal history a branch of intellectual history. Twentieth-century historians viewed legal history in a more contextualised manner – more in line with the thinking of social historians. They have looked at legal institutions as complex systems of rules, players and symbols and have seen these elements interact with society to change, adapt, resist or promote certain aspects of civil society.
        
        I could only add that no legal system is immutable, or could ever be. Demanding specific evidence of how a pre-literate society transmitted inter-generational knowledge would seem to me as absurd as insisting that the current English legal can only be understood by those who can read Magna Carta in the original Latin.
        
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        October 18, 2021 2:40pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, re your 2.40:
        
        “Demanding specific evidence of how a pre-literate society transmitted inter-generational knowledge would seem to me as absurd as insisting that the current English legal can only be understood by those who can read Magna Carta in the original Latin.”
        
        Most of us no longer read Latin, but we can learn it, and can see authentic facsimiles of the Magna Carta, and read them. Interpreting oral information transmitted over generations is just a guess.
        
        You can see a facsimile of the Magna Carta online, and there are translations, which Latin scholars would have perused. There’s no way you can verify New Zealand orally transmitted rules from 600 or more years ago.
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:17pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        No one needs to ‘verify New Zealand orally transmitted rules from 600 or more years ago’ any more than you need to verify from contemporary written records every customary rule prevalent in Lincolnshire in 1421.
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:04pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Some parts of Maori law are easy to understand and were widely acknowledged.
        
        Land law was, if I have the strength and will to deprive you of your land (and life), then it became mine. Until the next person did exactly the same to me, and so on.
        
        Also, if I captured you I was entitled to force you to do as I required, and could should I chose eat you for sustenance. You, in that position, had no rights at all.
        
        Certain parts of my family tree were intimately aware of such “laws”, having had relatives subject to them, the slavery part anyway. Freed after the treaty and married into a naughty colonialist family.
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:49pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    But only written laws have the opportunity to be applied equally across locations and times.
    
    Oral traditions can endure, but have a high propensity to mutate on transmission.
    
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    October 18, 2021 12:31pm
    - Paulus Gnome
      
      Nothing says maroi law like a rock to the head.
      
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      October 18, 2021 12:47pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      So biblical ‘laws’ could only be considered to have any real effect once the Israelites acquired literacy?
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:34pm
      - Jack5
        
        The Israelites had a written language, Milky, or written languages. The Old Testament was written mainly in Hebrew, with short portions of Aramaic, which used an alphabet derived from Phoenician alphabet.
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:36pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Do you think the Old Testament was written, in Hebrew by one original author, or do you think it is more likely to be a compilation of varying traditions transmitted orally from previous generations?
        Remember, it purports to describe very accurately events from a long, long time before the invention of the earliest scripts.
        But perhaps we should return to your original contention, that societies could not have legal systems of any kind before the invention of writing.
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:28pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Parts of the very earliest biblical tradition refers to written laws Mikey, you should be aware of that. Even if said tablets were provided by a deity, that they were written implied that the people had a written language and could read those tablets.
        
        It is generally accepted that the first writing occurred around 3400 BC, in the Sumerian state though Egyptian hieroglyphics may date to the same approximate period. Bible history as far as we are able to separately confirm (tremendous shortage of other written material !) goes back perhaps to Sennacherib at around 700 or so BC. Other events are supposedly in the 2000-2200 era but harder to reference. The tribe(s) in question had access to writing techniques, Cuneiform was quite widely used in trade it seems.
        
        Of course before any writing people had something resembling laws, but due to the mutability of oral traditions it might be easier to refer to them as traditions and customs. It is a matter of definitions in the end. Customs can be enforced just like laws.
        
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        October 18, 2021 6:03pm
      - Jack5
        
        Milky, re in your 5.28 post, on the Bible: … it purports to describe very accurately events from a long, long time before the invention of the earliest scripts.
        
        That’s questionable. Written language in the Middle East goes back 10,000 years (link below).
        
        And no-one is trying to merge the 600 commandments of the Torah, the First Five Books of the Old Testament, into our legal system.
        
        Milky, it’s not illegal to eat bacon or oysters.
        Jewish-Greek-Roman law comprises written codes that can be debated. Maori law is what Maori great- great-grandad thought it was.?
        
        The story of writing:
        
        https://sites.utexas.edu/dsb/tokens/the-evolution-of-writing/
        
        ??
        
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        October 18, 2021 9:43pm
JibberJabber

Another 5c per litre for Fuel today and most definitely it will be over $3 per litre by xmas.
We’re well on our way to a Venezuelan utopia, thanks Jacinda, you useless UN puppet.?

If you don’t believe the $3+ by xmas, I have an impeccable source in the industry.
We can come back in 3 months to see who’s right?
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October 18, 2021 11:11am
- Benedict Yu
  
  I love how politicians tie themselves in knots over petrol prices. Rising petrol prices discourage car use and should lead to people buying more efficient cars. Which is exactly what the Government wants. But they know people hate high petrol prices. So they kind of get paralyzed which I love seeing.
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:25am
  - JibberJabber
    
    Of course, if you can’t afford a “more efficient” car it’s just tough shit for you!
    
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    October 18, 2021 11:42am
    - Paulus
      
      More efficient cars have small high rated engines which costs the highest ratio of fuel costs 95/98 as they do not run properly on 91 fuel which can damage their engines.
      But of course fuel costs are over 60% Government Taxes.
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:01pm
- MCos
  
  The oil companies must be laughing up their sleeves, to a certain extent.
  Price of oil goes up, their profits increase and someone else gets the blame.
  Every time prices go up less petrol is sold to private car owners and the tax take goes down.
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:37pm
  - Nickc2
    
    When the price of fuel goes up, the price of everything goes up. Inflation 10% in the next Quarter?
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:15pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Nick, “less petrol sold”
      Something wrong with leftie comprehension I reckon. Maybe MCos has found some sort of fuel that we don’t know about? Prob Indonesian coal powered Electric Vehicles in NZ?
      
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      October 18, 2021 6:56pm
      - MCos
        
        If you had taken notice of what has happened previously when petrol prices have shot up you would have seen some people can’t afford the extra cost and traffic on the roads decreases.
        
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        October 18, 2021 7:12pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Discombobulated. There is a certain weekly/monthly petrol/diesel needed to get to work and home. That volume does not change. Less petrol sold? Get your hand off it. Do people drive half way to work and then walk ffs?
    Tax take goes down my left tit
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:52pm
    - MCos
      
      I haven’t driven to work for years.
      
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      October 18, 2021 7:15pm
Surely Knott

Who are the current cases? This is unusual.
This is the location of the current cases
In managed facilities 112
In hospital 26
At home or in self-isolation 80
Not in isolation 2
Other 422

422 of the current cases are not at home or in hospital but in the location of “other. ” Where is other? Is that prisons, social housing blocks, retirement homes, army barracks, state care?

Given that less than 10% of all cases have been over 60 it is not retirement homes. But where is other would tell us a lot about this outbreak.
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October 18, 2021 11:24am
- Stu2
  
  Probably a definitional thing , it looks weird.
  
  You could ask MoH what is classed as home (do you have to own it?) and what falls under other
  
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  October 18, 2021 12:15pm
70andstilllearning

Weekly Fundamental Crude Oil Price Forecast: Bullish Outlook, For Now

https://www.dailyfx.com/forex/fundamental/article/weekly_strategy_outlook/2021/10/17/weekly-fundamental-crude-oil-price-forecast-bullish-outlook-for-now.html
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October 18, 2021 11:26am
Cobolt24

Inflation at 4.9%. Really the highest since 1987 if we exclude other times where GST increased (government mandated inflation).
https://www.interest.co.nz/business/112778/statistics-new-zealand-says-consumers-price-index-rose-22-september-quarter-which
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October 18, 2021 11:27am
- Benedict Yu
  
  Predictable. They print money, set fire to a housing market and cut off essential workers and goods at the border.
  
  Ooops.
  
  Next thing we will have wage and price freezes. I would not put it past them.
  
  What I do know is that the adverse effects of their pandemic management and everything else stupid they are doing have yet to be seen.
  
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  October 18, 2021 12:21pm
Wired-one

https://i.stuff.co.nz/business/126709362/inflation-jumps-to-10year-high-of-49

Anyone getting a payrise less than that figure is going backwards. And they don’t include housing into their calculations. We’ll done Labour.
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October 18, 2021 11:48am
oldfella

Be interesting to see the vaxx numbers for Sunday. I suspect the high turnout on Sat – with all the free food and hoopla – will be offset by very low numbers yesterday. Resulting in a decidedly average weekend overall.
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October 18, 2021 12:05pm
Surely Knott

So toddlers are allowed back to daycare today.. Babies 0-9 yrs make up the greatest number of covid cases in nz at the mo’ and 3 hospitalisations. And they are completely unvaccinated. What is the thinking here. Ardern said with public health measure in place the risk is low. The public health measures are groups of 10 and parents to wear a mask at pickup. So Is our strategy to get herd immunity through the babies? And if this is the science then why not 10-19 year olds in groups of 10? And then why not 20 year olds who attend a party?
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October 18, 2021 12:08pm
- Mrs_Right
  
  Very rarely young children can have severe illness from Covid-19 and may require brief hospitalisation, but this is very uncommon.
  
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  October 18, 2021 12:36pm
  - cmm
    
    There are two valid reasons for getting a vaccinations:
    * Reducing your chance of getting bad outcomes. If you’re already at a very low risk (1/5000 or less) then reducing it further to, say, 1/10000 is not a huge benefit for anyone. Children are at very low risk (in general), so this is not a valid reason for kids (or for 80% of the adult population that are very low risk).
    * Reducing the chance of transmitting it to others. Kids are little petri dishes on legs. Kindies etc are always good breeding grounds for virus infections. It thus makes some sense to vaccinate kids even ahead of low-risk adults.
    
    If we’re going to look at things through the filter of risk (I think we should), then there is absolutely no point in me getting vaccinated. I work from home. I only visit some of my clients once a week (typically) and sit far away from the others. I go to shops once a week or so. … and I’m in South Island where there are zero cases and have been forever.
    
    I clearly am not a vector. Nobody should worry as to whether I am vaccinated or not.
    
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    October 18, 2021 1:21pm
    - Mrs_Right
      
      Actually studies suggested that children do not contribute much to the spread of Covid.
      
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      October 18, 2021 1:30pm
      - Maggy Wassilieff
        
        Not necessarily true
        https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2021/08/young-kids-more-likely-older-kids-spread-covid-19-household
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:54pm
    - mawm
      
      * Vaccinated people are just as likely to spread the virus as unvaxxed as they have an equal viral load.
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:22pm
      - Ed Snack
        
        Less likely by about 50% to catch the virus though. But the naturally immune are the safest group.
        
        We’ll likely only get to some form of herd immunity once nearly everyone has had Covid, as Benedict has been suggesting for some time. As noted above, in the UK a recent government estimates has put the percentage of the population with Covid antibodies at 98% (caveat, although official doesn’t seem to fit with other official figures), yet there is still a lot of Covid cases around, in both the vaccinated and the unvaccinated.
        
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        October 18, 2021 6:07pm
Paulus Gnome

Locked down in Gulag Aucklipeligo?

A little light reading, see how many roads are reduced from 100kph to . . . 40!

https://at.govt.nz/projects-roadworks/vision-zero-for-the-greater-good/safe-speeds-programme/speed-limit-changes-around-auckland/proposed-speed-limit-changes
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October 18, 2021 12:09pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  One way to raise money, bring out the speed cameras. Isn’t socialism wonderful?
  
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  October 18, 2021 2:31pm
- kevn
  
  @Paulus… Getcha bikes out plebs. Now.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:37pm
Fletch

Just when I thought Seymour was one of the more sensible leaders, then he comes out with this –

ACT wants to give every immunised New Zealander a $250 tax break, which could be redeemed at any time after the second dose of the Covid-19 vaccine.

ACT leader David Seymour said their policy was named “vax bucks” and would “reward New Zealanders for doing the right thing and following the rules”.

“If you’ve had the vax and paid your tax, you deserve some relief.”

He said ACT’s proposal brought together the need for a high vaccination rate, the savings a high vaccination rate would have for the hospital system, and the additional $12.9 billion New Zealand collected in tax in the last year , compared to the previous year.

“It would be a well-deserved boost for Kiwis who work hard and have done the right thing just before Christmas,” Seymour said.

“The tax credit is a week’s worth of groceries, a couple of tanks of petrol or Christmas presents for the kids.”

https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/10/17/act-propose-250-tax-relief-for-vaccinated-kiwis/

How about spending that money on therapeutics like ivermectin and a dose of the Novavax vaccine for those who want it? That would be better for the country.
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October 18, 2021 12:29pm
- Paulus Gnome
  
  It would fall into the same trap as WFF where the dole bludgers claim it is discriminatory because they are ‘special’ and cannot work or hold down a position for anyone of a million reasons and guess what?
  
  It will be a colonialist racist construct with the soft cock government giving it to them as well in their ‘wages’ because it is ‘fair’, but you, having been responsible by getting the jabs as prescribed without inducement, will not get a KFC voucher that the hold-outs have had.
  
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  October 18, 2021 12:44pm
- krazykiwi
  
  OMG Seymour, what are you doing, sir?
  
  Casting aside principles of freedom and liberty and instead digging into the taxpayer’s pocket to shower some money around.
  
  How about you read a bit of treatment research, or work out how to fund lost ICU capacity?
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:34pm
  - James Stephenson
    
    Wait, what?
    
    “Digging into the taxpayers pocket” to…give the taxpayers some of their own money back.
    
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    October 18, 2021 1:58pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Yes, but remember that is after it has been sluiced through the world’s least efficient economic system known as government.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:11pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Seymour is proposing to give every vaxxed NZer $250 (aka frittered waste)
  
  That would pay for more than 400 new ICU beds and staffing (aka long term investment in health)
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:43pm
rouppe

I really hate wearing masks.

I feel myself getting angrier by the minute when I’m in places I can’t avoid that require it.

I think it’s a cultural thing. In my culture people wearing masks are untrustworthy, potential threats, and hiding something.

That got me thinking. Not that long ago there was discussion about a certain culture that required their women to wear face coverings. The culmination was that NZ could not mandate no face coverings, and that those that choose to wear one in accordance with their culture could not be criticized for doing so.

Can the same but reversed argument be used now? My culture does not use masks generally, and not wearing one cannot be criticized?

After all mask wearing is not based on science, since it’s ok to sit in an enclosed space for hours without one in a restaurant, but inexplicably going into the post office is a deadly exercise without one.
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October 18, 2021 12:55pm
- KevO'Brien
  
  Mask wearing also massively increases the personal intake of re-cycled CO2.
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:22pm
  - Inandout
    
    KO, which would explain why I sometimes feel lightheaded in the shops, especially when it is humid. If the princess continues in her face coverings I am going to ask a local screen printer to put company names on the masks so I can go to their opposition and strut my stuff.
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:20pm
  - mawm
    
    That is untrue. It might have a very small effect on “dead space” in the respiratory tract which means a slight increase in the amount of CO2 inhaled in the initial part of an inspiratory breath but the body adapts by increasing the amount you breathe (minute volume).
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:34pm
    - kevn
      
      @mawm… Yes and no. A mate has been skiing up Ruapehu. They have to wear masks when in close quarters like chairlift etc. He became unwell and was told by medics that because of the altitude, oxygen is less and the mask aggravated his intake combined with his own CO2. Mask off and he eventually recovered.
      So, not ideal for many people even at sea level.
      
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      October 18, 2021 5:35pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      The CO2 concentration in people breathing through masks doubles or more than doubles. It can reach levels considered unhealthy if encountered indoors.
      
      At least that’s the numbers I’ve seen from research, but there is a lot of variables.
      
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      October 18, 2021 6:09pm
- krazykiwi
  
  They are compliance muzzles. There’s a good summary here of how/why these muzzles have become such a thing. The Face Mask Folly in Retrospect.
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:39pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  You have to understand the mask is only related as symbolism, it’s you showing fealty to this new religion. There is no absolute truth anymore, that has been replaced by fanaticism.
  
  Powerful fanaticism in which one position or group is absolutely right, nothing at all ambiguous, and any divergent view should be expunged, removed or destroyed.
  
  We’ve moved past science and now sit in the realm of this fanaticism as its religiously fanatic adherent’s cast voodoo spells in the form of social media/MSM hunting heretic’s of their new found religion who do not conform.
  
  The parallel’s between this and medieval Christianity is uncanny.
  
  These people will continue wearing masks long after the virus is gone. And they will continue looking at anyone who doesn’t wear one as unclean heretic’s.
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:40pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    LOL.
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:04pm
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      The song of the bird that has become comfortable in its cage.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:00pm
- graham
  
  Why not? If it’s against your culture then I think you have a valid case, which is supported by at least one precedent that I can think of – Rawiri Waititi refused to wear a “traditional Western-style tie” in Parliament, describing it as “a colonial noose” for indigenous people. And the Speaker of the House capitulated.
  
  So claim it’s against your culture, cite Rawiri Waititi as a precedent, and watch the fun begin!
  
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  October 18, 2021 1:44pm
  - MCos
    
    Get back to us and tell us how you get on.
    
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    October 18, 2021 4:08pm
WaveyDavey

Well it seems from the MoH stats that “Super Saturday” did absolutely nothing

Prior to all the nonsense the average daily shifting of the needle towards the target was 12,312 a day and after this weekend that’s has “grown” to 12,985

All that for a 650 a day average increase – pathetic

If you want to know the number of days to target at those rates it was – before: 18.84 (3 days deducted for the w/e) after: 17.84

So that’s it, down from 54 days to 53 days

Oh and we’ve yet to see if there’s a fall off as people will have gone earlier to be involved – some held off hence the low Wed/Thurs numbers

$5 says the weekly average at the end of this week will not be significantly different to last week

Were you not entertained?
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October 18, 2021 1:32pm
- Stu2
  
  May have got some people vaxxed who would not have otherwise.
  
  But I’m not dancing in the aisles.
  
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  October 18, 2021 2:04pm
  - Paulus Gnome
    
    No dancing, the rules bro’, no dancing . . .
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:35pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Next steps could be (in order of my preferences):
    1. Announce full opening on December 1. That might motivate a few more laggards, they still have this week to get the first jab and time to reach peak immunity by opening day.
    2. Announce at least a partial opening day December 1. Vax passports for major events, home isolation for overseas arrivals.
    3. Announce more limited opening, vax passports needed for shopping etc.
    4. Mandate vaxxes for all state sector jobs including MPs, vax required for welfare and pension payments. Open up at 90% fully immunised.
    5. Muddle along with varing alert levels, traffic lights and non-specific targets that also apply to unspecified subsets of the population.
    6. Circuit breaker level 4. Then back to elimination strategy if by some miracle we temporarily eradicate delta. If we don’t then rinse and repeat options 5 and 6 indefinitely until we have an election or a revolution.
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:35pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      So, to summarise:-
      
      – Vax passports in violation of God know how many laws, treaties and conventions
      
      – Continuing violation of civil liberties via random diktats
      
      – More societal destruction disguised as lockdowns
      
      – Dreaming about eradication of a globally endemic virus
      
      Over the sniffles, an illness with a mortality curve indistinguishable from non Covid-19 mortality.
      
      Y’know … I think I’ll pass. But thanks for the offer.
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:54pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        KK, you may (or may not) have noticed my first pref is opening completely, 2nd pref opening almost completely. Odds are it won’t happen. Assuming it doesn’t, my next preferences are to take some drastic action to actually get to these mythical unknown targets across whatever subsets she thinks deserve special consideration. We won’t get there with another couple of vaxathons! The alternative is that we will be sitting in this lockdown cycle like it is Groundhog Day! Sadly, this is the most likely option and I would not be at all surprised to be back in level 4 tomorrow.
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:09pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        I’ll just add another response. On the one hand we have you anti-vaxxers maintaining your right not to have “an experimental gene therapy” or whatever. On the other we have Cindy, Blofeld, Hendy and pink hair all wanting to vaccinate everybody for their own good. And maybe to stop the hospitals getting too busy.
        Well personally, a pox on both your houses. I wish you would all sod off somewhere and have your argument somewhere else! I am getting pretty pissed at having my life on hold because their lot think your lot need protection from a disease. a disease that I am as well equipped to face now as I ever will be.
        
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        October 18, 2021 3:20pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Apologies. I read it as an accumulating set of managed interventions!
        
        So, I support #1, followed by “whatever it takes” to prevent any form of bio fascism taking root.
        
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        October 18, 2021 4:09pm
      - septic skeptic
        
        Posted the above before I saw your reply. You will gather I am well and truly sick of this effing lockdown. We could be stuck here for months if the targets and Vax uptakes go as I expect them to.
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:20pm
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      And your solution is more Authoritarianism.
      
      Cool story bro..
      
      Still not taking it. ?
      
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      October 18, 2021 3:36pm
      - Batman
        
        When/if you suddenly stop commenting, we will have to speculate as to why.
        
        Hopefully you don’t and remain healthy!
        
        4 5
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        October 18, 2021 4:17pm
      - Liberal Cliche
        
        There’s alot more things worse than death Batman. Like living in constant fear…
        
        “Many people die at twenty five and aren’t buried until they are seventy five.”
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:07pm
- Stu2
  
  The Sunday first dose number is out – 6253
  
  The previous three Sundays were:
  8292
  7106
  9104
  
  So down be a third or so on the week before
  
  But second doses down by slightly more than half.
  So some people got their second dose a bit earlier.
  
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  October 18, 2021 2:08pm
  - Stu2
    
    Opps, got that wrong. I was looking at weekday second dose numbers
    
    Second doses yesterday were 23,408
    
    Sunday second doses are lower, the previous three Sundays were:
    16583
    20018
    33170
    Not a bad effort yesterday
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:18pm
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Daily movement towards target
      
      M – 13,690
      T – 14,880 ( 1190 on Mon)
      W – 10,972 (-2718)
      T – 11,347 (-2343)
      
      See how that number fell going into Super Saturday – people waited 2-3 days so no extra just shifted
      
      As I’ve said previously the only number the matters is how close we are to the target
      
      Booked 1st jabs are baked into the system and are already counted (and 2nd doses don’t matter)
      
      Only the unbooked jabs delivered matter
      
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      October 18, 2021 2:43pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    Average daily movement towards the target over the last 30 days
    
    Fri: 12,312
    Today: 12,985
    
    Difference: 673
    
    % increase after this w/e +5.4%
    
    The 3 days this weekend took us 4 days closer to the target – that’s it
    
    As I said, come next Monday the increase will have all but disappeared with the lower-than-average numbers over the next week
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:36pm
- krazykiwi
  
  +1 for the Gladiator reference.
  
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  October 18, 2021 2:24pm
  - WaveyDavey
    
    😉
    
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    October 18, 2021 2:45pm
    - krazykiwi
      
      Although, and I’m splitting already minute hairs here, I think the actual quote was “Are you not entertained”.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:15pm
      - WaveyDavey
        
        It is but the Vaxathon is past
        
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        October 18, 2021 5:04pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Where do we pick the equilibrium point at which new first doses are less than or equal to the number of new unvaxxed 12 year olds entering the eligible population? my back of the envelope calculation is:
  Birth rate 12.4 per 1000 p.a.
  Population 5.084 million
  About 63,000 births p.a. about 175 per day
  assume the same number turn 12
  
  So we need about 175 first doses every day just to break even.
  
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  October 18, 2021 2:45pm
  - Stu2
    
    Nope!
    
    Many of the kids turning 12 will get vaxxed, the uptake for 12-15 year olds is over 70%
    
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    October 18, 2021 3:50pm
- MCos
  
  My sister was talking to a neighbour.
  She wasn’t going to get vaccinated because she thought she had to pay.
  She told her the jab was free.
  She ran into her again yesterday and asked her if she’d got vaccinated.
  No, because she couldn’t be bothered and neither could her son. Something about waiting round for twenty minutes at the end.
  Certain amount of complacency in Christchurch.
  
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  October 18, 2021 3:58pm
  - Batman
    
    That’ll disappear pretty quickly when people they know start getting it and dying or being admitted to the ICU.
    
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    October 18, 2021 4:15pm
    - MCos
      
      My wife and I both know people in Thailand who have died after contracting the bug
      My wife keeps in touch with some of her neighbours & her sister. They keep her updated about who’s caught the bug round about our house.
      That tends to concentrate the mind.
      She takes covid-19 very seriously.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:52pm
    - Inandout
      
      Bat, some classes of our society live in filthy conditions and would be immune to many viruses because of this. What usually kills them is their appalling diet of junk food and fizzy drinks causing obesity.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:52pm
    - Liberal Cliche
      
      Or get it, have the sniffles for a couple of days then are perfectly fine, with a nice natural antibody resistance like the other… . 99.98%.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:58pm
    - raven
      
      Batman, stop fear mongering. This is a bad flu, and guess what, some people get sick and some people die from normal flu. We still need to keep living.
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:58pm
  - Stu2
    
    Thanks – an interesting tale.
    
    I’ve just skimmed the suburb maps for East Chch, and the rates are not spectacular compared with South Auckland
    
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    October 18, 2021 4:59pm
Aquataur

How about a thread for ‘alternative truths from the Podium of Truth’

State which politician/bureaucrat is speaking and their message.

Here’s my starter :

Andrew Coster – (woke) PC

Today we have 1 death from domestic violence and 5 hospitalisations, 1 of which is in Intensive care. The totals to date are 12 deaths, 75 hospitalisations of which 6 remain in ICU. In addition, we have 215 children who have been placed in care of OT
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October 18, 2021 1:36pm
I remember when

University College London has found lateral flow tests very good at detecting people most likely to spread covid.
When the researchers used a new formula for calculating the rapid test’s accuracy, they found LFTs were more than 80% effective at detecting any level of covid and likely to be 90% effective at detecting who is the most infectious.
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October 18, 2021 1:46pm
James Stephenson

Who is this Sir Kit Breaker who will apparently solve all of Auckland’s problems?
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October 18, 2021 2:08pm
- Ehlana
  
  Thanks the laugh, James, much needed.
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:32pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Good stuff, just clicked
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:54pm
emmess

I am not going to punch down on a bunch of kids enjoying themselves on the North Shore at the weekend

Why were the guest at Bill Gates’ daughters wedding unmasked while 2 year old kindy kids in New York are required to be?

These are the people making the rules

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10100955/Bill-Gates-daughter-Phoebe-19-shares-intimate-photos-big-sister-Jennifers-wedding-day.html

https://www.aarp.org/health/healthy-living/info-2020/states-mask-mandates-coronavirus.html#NewYork
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October 18, 2021 2:58pm
- mandk
  
  Rules, like taxes, are only for little people.
  
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  October 18, 2021 3:24pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Yeah, I’m close to saying good on them. I predict a fair number of parties will be held to celebrate going back to level 4 this afternoon – if in fact that is what happens.
  
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  October 18, 2021 3:26pm
- MCos
  
  “I am not going to punch down on a bunch of kids enjoying themselves on the North Shore at the weekend”
  
  It’s as obvious as night follows day that the bug has been spread mainly by way of indoor gatherings, starting with the church gathering at Favona and continuing around South Auckland and now who knows where across the rest of Auckland.
  Equally obviously a lot of people don’t give a shit, including those fools on the North Shore, and that’s what keeps the merry go round spinning.
  All these people piss me off, I note a couple of the people in the infamous video have had their work prospects curtailed, what a shame.
  There’s a lot of people in Mangere Bridge had their businesses curtailed too because the alternative to clearing up the outbreak is waiting for the vaccine rates to rise to 90% or whatever the trigger point is going to be.
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:39pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Covid spreads inside, infection outside is almost unknown. Seems that Covid needs a certain minimal concentration to penetrate and infect, and it is hard to do that outside as it gets diluted so rapidly.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:24pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Why is that the only alternative?
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:25pm
    - MCos
      
      There are other alternatives, but that’s obviously what the government, who decide these things & take responsibility for the consequences, is hanging its hat on.
      
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      October 18, 2021 6:59pm
  - emmess
    
    You are doing just what the authorities want you to do
    Blaming the powerless, meanwhile that deflects away from their incompetence.
    
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    October 18, 2021 7:04pm
Ehlana

No changes for Auckland for the next 2 weeks.

They admit we have the world’s strictest rules.

Why does it feel like Auckland is being punished? We’ve been doing this for two months and they’re still trying to insist people can’t go visiting unless they are outdoors, masked and not using the toilets. I wonder if anyone following that…
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October 18, 2021 4:13pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  How many protests over the next fortnight?
  
  Jailing the innocent to protect the unmotivated and please the fearful.
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:23pm
- Truman lodge
  
  Yeah it feels like we are being punished.
  
  If we are at level 2 Delta which means no leaving Auckland over Xmas and the rest are at level one that will be particularly harsh.
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:23pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What about the toilet on a boat?
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:24pm
  - Ehlana
    
    I seem to recall the answer to that was also No, Steve.
    
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    October 18, 2021 4:31pm
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      When you pee over the side first note the wind direction.
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:41pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Ferry? No? Jesus, Auckland is going to end up like San Francisco, shit all over the streets!
      
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      October 18, 2021 4:53pm
- mawm
  
  Yes , punished for government mismanagement.
  
  Do they ever stop to think that doing the same thing over and over again is going to get a different result?
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:05pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  “They admit we have the world’s strictest rules.”
  They have the World’s strictest socialist control rules, fixed it
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:41pm
- graham
  
  Ehlana:
  
  … they’re still trying to insist people can’t go visiting unless they are outdoors, masked and not using the toilets. I wonder if anyone following that…
  
  I’m one of those people who ALWAYS follows the rules – never dream of doing something if People In Authority say “No”.
  
  But I’m well over that now. My daughter and her boyfriend came over for dinner last week – masks off, straight inside, no qualms.
  
  They’re steadily losing more and more goodwill, even among those of us who are normally the most compliant.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:48pm
Flossie

I don’t know why I’m disappointed as I didn’t expect anything else from She Who Must Be Obeyed.
Totally over all this covid stuff.
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October 18, 2021 4:16pm
Alan Wilkinson

Northland back to level 2 on Wed. Good news is that sex is obviously less risky than truck driving.
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October 18, 2021 4:19pm
- Littletramp
  
  Do they not recognise how strange it is that Northland has 2 infectious people wandering around randomly for days, and they believe they have no cases of this highly infectious, deadly virus?
  What chance everyone that may have covid in Northland, will be avoiding testing at all costs. Duh!
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:51pm
  - kevn
    
    @LittleT… Same story in Coromandel. Nothing to see there either. How odd.
    
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    October 18, 2021 5:25pm
    - Ed Snack
      
      Mostly outside contacts I suspect.
      
      3 0
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      October 18, 2021 6:26pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    No sewage detection but many are on septic tanks out of towns. I think it would have surfaced by now though despite the obvious motive to hide. It’s so infectious it would have spread to others more likely to test and report.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:10pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Now look at what you have done. More working groups who know who is NOT on wastewater to the stink ponds will now have a sample from their septic tank.
      This is where these wanks get ideas from.
      Not your fault Alan, it was always going to happen. Shit evaporation tests – low results – go for septic tanks. Gotta keep those infectious numbers up.
      Bottom line, they are LOSING control
      
      4 1
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      October 18, 2021 6:33pm
Lucia Maria

If I’m reading this correctly, even vaxxed nannies could lose their jobs if people hiring them don’t get every member of their household over 12 jabbed in time.

Home-based educators protest against vaccine mandate rules

The mandate for education settings includes anyone over 12 who lives in the same house where home-based education is provided.

Secretary for Education Iona Holsted last week confirmed the rule applied “whether or not individuals are ordinarily present while the service is being delivered”.

Today’s open letter said that would take in “children, husbands, wives, partners, boarders, flatmates, parents or grandparents” many of whom who may not be home at the same time as the children in care.

The government really ought to give lessons in how to annoy the maximum number of people in the shortest space of time.
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October 18, 2021 4:20pm
ecco

Ardern clearly still in elimination mode from today’s announcements and trying to buy more time.
The waffle coming from her mouth is just smoke and mirrors and utter BS.

She says Robertson ‘is working on a support package for Auckland businesses’. Why didn’t she and Robertson get off their arses and work on this over the weekend, instead of prancing around on her vaxathon? Will no doubt be lots of t&c’s to access ‘support’ they come up with, ie will just be a lot of lip service again.

Should see many retail businesses and restaurants go bust with this woman’s continued elimination crusade.

What a non event of an announcement:
– no targets
– working on other level system but no details, wait till Friday
– could you please wait another 2 weeks of the harshest lockdown in the OECD
– no advice taken from anyone except scientists

What a f**king pack of losers we have running this country. I guess this was the easiest thing she can do locking down. Opening up in stages is beyond her abilities.

We all need to look at our longterm options with this woman completely dismantling NZ as we know it via the locking down of Auckland for a ridiculous amount of time.

Oh well, I guess the majority of the losers in NZ put this woman into absolute power. She knows no one can touch her. Tragic.
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October 18, 2021 4:25pm
- ecco
  
  Ardern tried to spin it that we are lucky she went against Bloomfield’s advice and put Auckland back into Level 4. Wow is that the best she could do?
  
  Notice there’s no more of the ‘Be Kind’ rubbish coming from her. Since she’s not leading by example on this front.
  
  You couldn’t make this stuff up.
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:35pm
Lance

The novelty of endless level 3 lockdowns in Auckland has worn off.
I am so pissed off with the govt kicking the can down the road to satisfy their internal vocal minority
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October 18, 2021 4:26pm
Fletch

Unbelievable. It looks like, come Friday, they will be pushing vaccination in an even bigger way. Jacinda says she has been looking at overseas, but she obviously hasn’t, as it has been shown that vaccination does not affect case numbers.

Why are they so stuck on vaccination? It’s like a broken record.
You want vaccination? Then offer an alternative vaccine. Where is Novavax? Or Valneva?
16 2
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October 18, 2021 4:26pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Novavax isn’t even here yet!
  I guess if and when that happens it can be derided as an “experimental” vaccine for at least a couple of years.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:30pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Alternatives don’t motivate. Just open up and make the risks explicit.
  
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  October 18, 2021 6:13pm
Truman lodge

Yeah it feels like we are being punished.

If we are at level 2 Delta which means no leaving Auckland over Xmas and the rest are at level one that will be particularly harsh.
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October 18, 2021 4:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mangawhai is not going to happen for me, motorcamp and boating. Guess it is pitch a tent on some grass by the mudflats of Hellyers Creek
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:37pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Normally holiday park booking up there would have easter next year booked out. Fuck you Ardern, and ALL of your sycophants
    
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    October 18, 2021 5:38pm
NoFax

Ok, I was wrong. I really thought they were going to pivot. I guess they are far more useless than I realised.
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October 18, 2021 4:29pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Anyone figured out why the South Island, Stewart Island and the Chathams are still in Level2?
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October 18, 2021 4:36pm
- mandk
  
  There is no logical reason, but I recall the PM saying it would be unfair on Auckland if the rest of NZ was free.
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:40pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  They don’t matter to important people in Wellington and Auckland.
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:44pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Mind you, I expect the Chatham Islanders treat that as the bad joke it is.
    
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    October 18, 2021 4:56pm
- CAKE FACE1
  
  Every question about government policy, CAKE gives the same answer:
  
  VANDALISM.
  
  By Jove, I think I just scored 100% in that test!
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:46pm
- lifesgood
  
  Ah but I bet Stewart Is and the Chathams ignore all the covid restrictions and good on them too.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:48pm
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  What level are the Kermadecs at
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:08pm
septic skeptic

So, reading between the lines a bit, but here is my takeaway from the podium of half-truths.
They think that our near worst in the OECD health system especially for ICU won’t cope with case numbers from an unvaxxed 10%. So lockdown continues until if/when we hit a mythical target to be announced on Friday. My guess is that we may never get there short of basically forced vaccinations.
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October 18, 2021 4:40pm
- [email protected]
  
  I would vervently hope that no-one forcibly tries to insert a needle into my body. If they try, I will do whatever I can to defend myself.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:46pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Earlier today there was a topic about se levels rising and island sinking.
In Hawaii I went on a volcano tour on Hawaii (Bid Island. There is a volcanic vent that makes these Islands. The Pacific plate moves northwest about 3 inches a year, so the south west of the Big Island is now over that vent. One day that Island will move on and the vent will start making new Islands as the Plate moves. Way up in the north west there are Islands slowly going back under the water. I did not know there are over 130 Islands, tourists only go to about 6 of them.
So yeah, Islands are sinking
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October 18, 2021 4:47pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  * South East on the big Island ffs. Kilauea is where we went, but the last lava flow was south east of that
  
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  October 18, 2021 4:51pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Reminds me of classic dialogue from Boston Legal:
    Beverley: “Come and see me sometime on the Big Island”
    Denny Crane: “I am the Big Island”.
    
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    October 18, 2021 5:42pm
Southern Raider

NSW had a plan for months and everyone knew what they needed to to

Jacinda has had 18 months and doesn’t have a single clue. Having to wait until Friday means she has been focused on the wedding and now needs to come up with something so needs the extra four days.

We know she is coming out with a 95% target but just doesn’t want to say it as she knows the kick back she will get in the polls. She just wants Auckland locked down for ever.
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October 18, 2021 4:56pm
- Fletch
  
  Yeh, and what will this 95% achieve? It’s an arbitrary figure they have pulled from the air.
  
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  October 18, 2021 6:13pm
  - Southern Raider
    
    Solely for Jacinda to claim highest in the world and so she can win some noddy badge while Auckland burns
    
    Buy the women a fiddle
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:35pm
Benedict Yu

I listened to the PM in the car..

“The path out of lockdown”

Ardern said in the future she could not ask people to live week by week without knowing what restrictions they would face. On Friday, she would set out the new system for dealing with Covid-19.

The new framework would include a vaccination target before it came into effect, and that would be based on international experience.

The vaccination target would be very high, she said.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-auckland-and-waikato-to-stay-in-level-3-northland-to-move-to-level-2-jacinda-ardern/WTL4OXINDL4LRSPKYR6NKDK544/

That suggests that restrictions will only be lifted if we reach a “very high” vaccine target. And if we don’t reach that target, restrictions will remain until we reach the target. Of course that will result in a predictable reaction. The vaccinated will turn on the unvaccinated with savagery.

I’m pro vaccine. I don’t comprehend why rational people don’t get vaccinated. But as the end of the day people make decisions. I just want out.
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October 18, 2021 5:17pm
- Fletch
  
  Yup she is turning it into an us versus them situation and it could get very nasty. They cannot by law mandate a vaccination to everyone and she promised early on that no one would be forced, but they really are forcing you. It’s like punishing the whole class by keeping them after school until the student who earned the teacher’s ire (by throwing a duster?) is outed. They are still forcing compliance.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:33pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  It’s hard to opt out of a society where at least 15% of adults have only a tenuous connection to reality.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:36pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    51% unfortunately.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:17pm
- JerJer
  
  I’m not vaccinated, but luckly I don’t care what pushy people say or think.
  
  Right at the start of the vaccine development I looked into all of them, and decided when they were available the vaccine types that I would take. The one we have here was not one of them, so, I’m holding out for choice, as are many people it would seem.
  
  That does not make me anti-vax, it just means that the government have been to useless and slow to give people choice. Once they do that, then I will receive a vaccination, but for now, I won’t. Novavax is only a couple of months away after all. Jannsen has been approved here for months and we have even ordered it. AstraZeneca we could have actually had, but, we had to be kind and give it away. I would have taken either of those two, but we couldn’t manage to offer choice.
  
  My recommendation for people blaming people like me for holding things back, would be to look to who is really holding things back. Who could’nt manage to actually order one vaccine (let alone two), when we were clearly told we were at the front of the queue, who couldn’t organize sufficient supply or even distribution in the country. Who cannot even organize their own fucking wedding. Find out who this person is and assign blame where it is due.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:38pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  The vaccinated are quite welcome to turn on my people with “savagery” which amounts to nothing other than trying to get us banned, and other various internet keyboard abuse.
  
  The more punishment the government puts on your side, the more your people will crack. Not us.
  
  If you won’t listen about how far this government will go in total authoritarian, then maybe you need to see it for yourself.
  
  History tells us how far socialists will go, it should be a lesson, google Holodomor or Mao Hundred Flowers. Keep in mind these regimes killed their OWN supporters who weren’t hardline enough first.
  
  You want to financially ruin us, starve us, hunt us, murder us, then bring it on because….
  
  Still not taking it.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:48pm
- NoFax
  
  And given Maori are not vaccinated that highly can’t she see that will breed resentment? It seems like a great way to divide the country.
  
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  October 18, 2021 6:00pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Maybe one reason that Maori are less vaxxed is that many of them don’t speak either Maori or NZ pidgin and don’t identify with all the racist messaging.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:42pm
- ecco
  
  I’m sure all the crap she comes up with on Friday will be useless and will not be starting until next year. What else would you expect? She’s still on her elimination plan, hoping we won’t notice.
  
  Agreed. Far too much time spent planning her wedding, visiting Gisborne, ostensibly to drum up vaccination rates there but somehow clearly coincided with checking out a few wedding venues.
  
  She’s still ducking for cover and not raising her head in Auckland. Knows she would get lynched if she ever set foot in that region again. Lets hope Aucklanders repay her the compliment come the next election.
  
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  October 18, 2021 6:19pm
  - dcrane
    
    Every one of the ministers who has been wasting their time on He Puapua stealth neoracist policy should have been nose-to-the-grindstone on policy to keep New Zealand from ever having to be in Level 3 or 4 again. Expanding medical capacity. Arranging the immigration and training of nurses. Negaotiating deals for therapeutics. Accelerating the vaccination. Educating the public for taking care of themselves (has even ONE public official mentioned Vitamin D??).
    
    The costly failure of the past two months would completely sink the government if we had even a halfway independent press.
    
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    October 18, 2021 7:06pm
- Littletramp
  
  Benedict, “I don’t comprehend why rational people don’t get vaccinated.” Let me try and help you with that.
  There is a reason why 90% of people in life are often wrong, otherwise everyone would be in the Bahama’s on a yacht. That reason is that 5% of the people spend much of their time influencing the 90% to take actions that they (the 5%) benefit from. The 90% don’t really care too much about things and the 5% are really focussed on what they do so generally prevail. The other 5% are independent thinkers who make their own decisions regardless of the mob drift.
  What we have here is:
  (1) a cynical change in the definition of the term vaccine from prevent to protect because these ones are not vaccines as we know them,
  (2) vaccines offered as a solution to a problem (the virus) that was man made in a lab by the notoriously corrupt USA pharma community.
  (3) The covid injection was designed to protect folk against a virus strain that has since mutated into Delta, and it is now proving less effective in preventing the infection or transmission than hoped.
  (4) The virus itself affects vulnerable elderly people or those with obesity or respiratory problems a lot more than normal healthy people yet govt’s are offering a one solution fits all package.
  (5) They have shut down all discussion of treatments by doctors and medical experts, which raises red flags with many as to motive for that? Not saying one thing or another works, but why just close the discussion with something so ubiquitous?
  (6) They are dogmatic that the virus is transmitted by droplets when strong evidence suggests otherwise, and if they are wrong, lockdowns are the worst thing they can do. An alternative theory is that the virus could be transmitted through the air and closed air conditions and low humidity are an environment it thrives in, much like influenza.
  (7) All that comes before you even look at the numbers who have not died from catching covid who now probably have a quite strong natural immunity.
  (8) Closing the schools is arguably the worst decision of the lot. The kids should be exposed and developing lifetime immunities through exposure while they are young and bodies at peak operating function & their exposure can be managed in well ventilated conditions. That way each time (expect a burst in July/August each year) the virus comes around it’s effects will gradually diminish.
  (9) Many can see these mandates as the thin end of an oppressive wedge. If we all have to carry phones everywhere to show vaccine passports to live we have lost the plot and given up too much through fear.
  (10) What have the vaccinated got to fear from the un-vaccinated if the known facts are used in that argument. They are using emotion to try and force a point which is not convincing. The hospital bed shortage is total speculation & fearmongering.
  That gives you an idea of the some of the thoughts of us idiots. At this stage we still have a free country.
  Respect your posts and views.
  
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  October 18, 2021 6:23pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Long post. Is it fair to sum up that you think it’s all part of a big yet unspecified conspiracy ?
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:38pm
    - Littletramp
      
      No- just calling balls and strikes.
      
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      October 18, 2021 6:53pm
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    Well said bro. Truthing.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:43pm
  - dcrane
    
    Good post. I would add 11) Many of the vaccines are new tech that has never been deployed widely in the human population, and we have no good information about potential long-term side-effects. 12) Unlike a killed-virus vaccine, this “vaccine” implants a gene that codes for an actively harmful agent, the spike protein.
    
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    October 18, 2021 7:03pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      no it doesn’t
      
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      October 18, 2021 9:37pm
  - Simon
    
    Good summary. Also you make your own personal risk assessment against this chicken shit so called vaccine.
    
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    October 18, 2021 8:32pm
- Stu2
  
  In oz 80% across the eligible population was the target. If subgroups were poorly vaccinated then so be it.
  
  Here Maori were at 66% first dose at the end of Sunday. Now we wait to see how the vaccination target coming out on Friday works.
  
  There is potential for something stupid.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:24pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Exactly how the media works, even here in NZ.
Kiddies and lefties – go to the basement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JA8GKGzvq5I
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October 18, 2021 5:32pm
Tony Stuart

Judith Collins has come out swinging this afternoon:

No plan, no ideas, no hope from Government
Judith Collins October 18, 2021

The ongoing nightmare of the Level 3 lockdown in Auckland continues with no hope on the horizon, says Leader of the Opposition Judith Collins.

“The Labour Government clearly has no plan, no ideas and is providing no hope for Aucklanders.

“People tuning into today’s 4pm pronouncement from the podium were expecting some semblance of a plan about the pathway forward for Auckland. Instead, they got more of the same: announcements about announcements to come later in the week, and self-congratulation about Super Saturday.

“All of this on a day spent by many Aucklanders on tenterhooks, after Dr Ashley Bloomfield publicly floated the idea of Auckland returning to a hard Level 4 lockdown this morning – speculation about which the Government then allowed to fester all day.

“Across the Tasman, state and territory leaders are outlining clear and easily digestible plans about loosening restrictions on people at various vaccination levels. Why is the Prime Minister waiting until Friday to do this for New Zealanders?

“Why should Aucklanders spend the week wondering about the vaccination target and what it might mean for their freedoms, for their businesses and for their kids?

“The Government’s belated recognition of the necessity of setting a vaccination target is overdue. National has been pushing for formal targets for months now. But Aucklanders need clarity now and shouldn’t be forced to wait for yet another 4pm podium announcement on Friday.

“The Government is once again making things up as it goes along. The Government is utterly bereft of ideas, having spent the first six months of this year in self-congratulation mode, happy to have the developed world’s slowest vaccine rollout and spending the Covid Response Fund not on contact tracing, saliva testing and boosting ICU treatment, but on art therapy and cameras on fishing boats.

“Unlike Labour, National has done the thinking about a vigorous suppression strategy, where we work to minimise the number of Covid cases in the community but accept they will be there. We call on the Government to urgently scale up saliva testing capability, order vaccine booster shots and next generation Covid treatments, roll out rapid antigen tests particularly to essential workers crossing alert level boundaries, and urgently implement National’s specialist healthcare workforce migration plan.

“The Government also needs to move heaven and earth to roll out effective vaccine authentication as quickly as it can. Every week it fails to deliver this forces unneeded restrictions on fully vaccinated Kiwis.

“It makes no sense to keep the hundreds of thousands of Aucklanders who are now fully vaccinated at home.

“Likewise, the South Island remains at Level 2 despite having no Covid cases for nearly a year. There was some rationale for this when only around 20 per cent of South Islanders were fully vaccinated. But, two months on from the initial restrictions, many part of the South Island have high rates of vaccination that should allow for an easing of restrictions.

“Finally, I urge the Government to publish the health advice which so far it has refused to do, despite repeated calls for it to do so. Independent public health experts are confused by the Government’s approach, and who can blame them.

“New Zealand can start to reopen to the world, end lockdowns and cope with Covid, but only if the Government starts showing decisive leadership. A good place would be to pick up National’s plan and start to implement it.”

National launched its own get-out-of-Covid-jail plan, Opening Up, on 29th September. It was a comprehensive, detailed plan. Labour immediately dismissed it, saying National wanted to give New Zealanders “Covid for Christmas”. Instead, Aucklanders will be in Covid jail for Labour Weekend, thanks to the Labour government!

Kudos to Collins for not pulling her punches today, having supported the Government’s Super Saturday initiative at the weekend. Parliament resumes tomorrow, and it is Judith Collins who has set the agenda for the week. The challenge now will be for National MP’s to capitalise.
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October 18, 2021 5:34pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I don’t want to see Collins replaced with another socialist softie, I want to see National Harden the Fuck Up. There have been untold chances to rake the mud over Labour but not taken.
  As I have said, Labour/Greens are so far left they are frothing at the mouth on the edge of the flat earth.
  Leaves a vacuum center left, and that is where Collins is heading
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:56pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Hear hear. National needs to stand for something more noble than simply wanting to win an election, and tossing principles on the bonfire of convenience to do so.
    
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    October 18, 2021 7:20pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Yes, I just heard Collins detailing all of that on TV3 news at 6.
  No just kidding. The bias really is close to Soviet style now.
  
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  October 18, 2021 6:14pm
- ecco
  
  Well written by Judith. Somewhat calmed down my blood pressure that there are some sane people in the NZ Parliament.
  Just had to turn off Robertson’s bleating on the radio, couldn’t stand it any longer.
  
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  October 18, 2021 6:24pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Last time I looked the Herald reported none of this and Stuff about two sentences.
  
  When the bought and paid for media won’t report the Opposition we are just a third world abomination.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:32pm
Maggy Wassilieff

So that big vaxathon didn’t do the trick.

Heck, what is going to get Auckland out of this covid mess?

It is all very well to blame party-goers and rule breakers, etc… but these folks didn’t introduce the virus into the middle of the city.
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October 18, 2021 5:35pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  What would you recommend the government do now, Maggy? Assuming immediate resignation is not an option, that is.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:38pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Why? It is certainly the best option.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:19pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Mike, there is only so long you can continue to say “yes mistakes were made but we need to focus on the present and future”. We are well past that point and heads need to roll. Ardern, Blofeld, Robertson, Hipkins and Little would be a good start.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:33pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    As I’ve always recommended…
    
    Protect the vulnerable, exercise sensible behaviour (ie. don’t cough over others; isolate if sick) …and carry on as normal.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:53pm
    - mawm
      
      And treat the disease early!
      
      4 1
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      October 18, 2021 8:32pm
    - Clownworld
      
      Maggy you had me at normal
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:03pm
- lifesgood
  
  The depression is really setting in. There is such a horrible feeling in Auckland now. We had a ray of hope that Jacinda might use her nouse like Perrottet – fat chance. She can’t, she doesn’t have any nouse.
  Feel for those living alone or shut in. The Govt needs to round up all the unvaccinated and banish them to an off shore island. By their selfishness they are holding millions to ransom.
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:43pm
  - ecco
    
    Ardern could also just get off her high horse and set Auckland free. It’s not the unvaccinated that are holding Auckland to ransom. It’s a deliberate ploy by Ardern.
    
    Agree there is an absolutely desolate and desperate feeling in Auckland after today’s (non) announcements. It’s just downright cruel the way Ardern and co are going about this. The feelings of hopelessness are on a par with the thousands trying to get back to NZ and navigating the MIQ lottery mess.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:28pm
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    >The Govt needs to round up all the unvaccinated
    
    There it is folks, it isn’t any clearer as to why *millions* let governments round up people and gas and starve them.
    
    You want the government to round me up and then expect me to do something for you?
    
    You’re dreaming mate.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:39pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      It doesn’t take much for decent people to do indecent things.
      
      Perhaps folks now realise how easy it was for the Germans to accept the warped thinking of their Nazi
      masters.
      
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      October 18, 2021 7:08pm
      - lifesgood
        
        You do realise I was being a bit flippant, don’t you? I know people have personal choice, as it should be.
        
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        October 19, 2021 7:43am
  - Fletch
    
    I have a very strong feeling that in only a few months it will be the unvaccinated who are envied and will be in huge demand. These scientists and doctors who forced the vaccine will be chased down in the street and mocked.
    
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    October 18, 2021 6:44pm
    - Benedict Yu
      
      “I have a very strong feeling that in only a few months it will be the unvaccinated who are envied and will be in huge demand.”
      
      Yeah I really really doubt that. Based on my Economics Degree and my Science Degree and my stats analysis background. And hundreds of hours on reading everything I can get hold of about the vaccines that is peer reviewed.
      
      Look that is NEVER going to happen. Really. You can choose to not get the vaccine. But I am telling you it is not a rational choice. Please just think about it.
      
      11 5
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      October 18, 2021 7:41pm
      - Aquataur
        
        I match you BY – double major in Maths and Stats, Engineering Hons in Operations Research (incl modelling) and an MBA. Used to manage a portfolio of $110 bn so know a bit about risk.
        
        It is not a rational choice for a healthy 20 yr old to be vaccinated. For anyone under 20, no less an authority than the JCVI (UK peak body on vaccination) has said that the benefits do not outweigh the risks.
        
        The unvaccinated will eventually get Covid and the vast majority of them will end up with better antibodies and immunity than those who have been vaccinated.
        
        FTR I have been vaccinated knowing the risk/reward equation was in my favour doing so.
        
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        October 18, 2021 8:32pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        The conversation in a few months should be interesting.
        What peer reviewed data on the vaccines have you studied? I’d love to see it. I tried to get info from Medsafe but it’s like pulling teeth. Generic, non specific bullcrap. Though the Pfizer Risk Management Plan was revealing, especially the part revealing all of the data the DON’T have. Specifically around pregnant women, immunocompromised, frail and elderly, people with autoimmune or inflammatory conditions and no long term data.
        They also warn about the potential for vaccine-associated enhanced disease (VAED) including vaccine associated enhanced respiratory disease (VAERD).
        Doesn’t sound overly safe once you’ve read that.
        99.85% recovery rate actually sounds like decent odds.
        
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        October 18, 2021 11:14pm
    - [email protected]
      
      Not just the scientists and doctors Fletch. If the worst happens and the vaccine goes horribly wrong the CEO’s of Pfizer etc. and politicians won’t be able to hide from the outraged public. Their legal indemnified might protect them in a court of law but not likely offer much protection from the enraged public.
      
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      October 18, 2021 8:42pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Why for f***s sake, why not get the scared losers to self isolate for ever and let the rest of use go free.
    
    We don’t need health fascism.
    
    9 6
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    October 18, 2021 7:30pm
  - Grant
    
    Lifesgood. Go away. Just go away and trouble the rest of us no more. Thank you.
    G
    Disclaimer: I am double jabbed..
    
    4 2
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    October 18, 2021 8:16pm
  - Simon
    
    “The Govt needs to round up all the unvaccinated and banish them to an off shore island.”
    
    Lol – bootlicker.
    
    5 6
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    October 18, 2021 8:21pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Kermadecs, yes please. Bounty Is – no thanks.
      
      1 0
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      October 18, 2021 9:27pm
    - Clownworld
      
      Waiheke?
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:00pm
  - Stu2
    
    What she hasn’t got are ICUs
    
    2 0
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    October 18, 2021 8:57pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Lifesgood, I have 4 of my team in Auckland. I’ve watch the slow-mo deterioration of their mental health over the last 63 days. I get that it’s difficult, really difficult, but your beef is with Ardern’s tyrannical regime. Do not fall into their trap of blaming any other group. Doing this makes you a pawn. 100% of the blame for the anguish you feel is with Ardern. Know it. Spread it.
    
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    October 18, 2021 9:03pm
  - septic skeptic
    
    Nice suggestion for the un-vaxxed, but I hope it’s hyperbolic! But if we do that, then we should also send the Covid nutters like Hendy, Baker, Wiles, Blofeld, Ardern etc as well. They can have a good old stoush over whether one half get to vax the other half. The rest of us can get back to normal life in NZ.
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:15pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  What is going to get Auckland out of this covid mess? An Election – and atm it will NOT be National (Labour in drag)
  
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  October 18, 2021 5:51pm
septic skeptic

We have pilots who are fully vaxxed with alternate non-pfizer vaxes that they got overseas. Currently grounded as MOH won’t recognize these as valid vaxes! Yes the unvaxed can sit in the cabin and go maskless while they sip a coffee and chomp on a Cookie time.
This stupidity defies belief. We really do have idiots running the country!
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October 18, 2021 6:29pm
- Cinematic
  
  Yes, yes we do.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:37pm
- Clownworld
  
  Naturally the podium of a high level of lies states only NZ gets the best vaccine…before the efficacy went from a marketing 95% down to was it now in the 40%? Its ok just get booster shots every 5mths for life?
  
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  October 18, 2021 9:57pm
fernglas

Combine a “very high” vaccination target with an insistence that all parts of the community reach that target, and you will never be out of lockdown.
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October 18, 2021 6:48pm
ecco

An accurate precis by Des Gorman of today’s pathetic performance by Ardern.

Main takeaway of Des – What is the end game is Ardern aiming for? Is it days, months, years away??

Also he mentions Ardern’s 95% vaccine target across all communities, that she seems to be inferring, will obviously be impossible to achieve and will cause more harm than good.

https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/heather-du-plessis-allan-drive/audio/des-gorman-we-needed-clarity-and-hope-over-timelines-and-the-endgame/
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October 18, 2021 6:52pm
- fernglas
  
  The harm that will be caused by having a target across all communities will be that those communities that fail to reach the target will be the subject of discrimination. Given that there is reluctance amongst many Maori to be vaccinated, and it seems highly unlikely that a “very high” target for them will be easily or quickly reached, the Government will be promoting a policy that will encourage racism, which is surely anathema to a so-called “progressive” leadership.
  
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  October 18, 2021 7:25pm
  - fernglas
    
    An expert, Michael Plank, says:
    “Plank stressed that it should not be measured as an average, but should account for 90-95 per cent of all ethnicities and communities.”
    So 95% of all Indians, Green Party voters, Muslims, LGBTQ, West Coasters, nurses……..? This is a recipe for utter social disaster, but that is what happens when you let policy be dictated by people who have only one outcome to consider.
    
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    October 18, 2021 7:43pm
    - Cinematic
      
      Plank is a tunnel vision idiot.
      
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      October 18, 2021 8:35pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      What about counting anti-vaxxers as a group then and waiting for 90-95% of them! I guess now Wiles has finally got double jabbed we are up to 95% in TWO groups – idiots with pink hair and people that think they gain cred by mis-spelling their names to look like American Indians.
      
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      October 18, 2021 10:28pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Agreed. Moving the goal posts to ‘communities’ sets up the tinder for stigmatisation, and shifting of blame.
    
    The immorality of what is playing out here his extreme: Promise, shift the goal posts, blame a manufactured villain, repeat.
    
    When will NZers wake up?
    
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    October 18, 2021 10:04pm
- Cinematic
  
  Superb by Gorman. Love it how he calls out the extreme health zealots.
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:15pm
Maggie Pie

Thort this worth sharing with the group…

My partner got the black Tee in XL. Looks fab on him.

I’m thinking getting a different one, but can’t decide what I want on it.

https://teeol.com/products/govern-me-harder-cindy
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October 18, 2021 7:09pm
- Don Beckett
  
  Get the:
  Control
  Opress
  Victimise
  Isolate
  Divide.
  Doncha reckon you’d be into that, Maggie?
  
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  October 18, 2021 7:25pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Sounds like a bita me 😛
    
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    October 18, 2021 7:35pm
fernglas

The Guardian reports a 75% increase during Covid of referrals to mental health services for psychosis. The Herald reports about 85,000 planned operations deferred. Millions have been diagnosed with depression and anxiety disorders. Alcohol consumption has gone through the roof. These are just random examples of public health consequences beyond Covid infection. And yet this government is happy to defer a decision on the future for another week. It’s all very well if you are a civil servant on full wages in Wellington, but I think that Labour has completely misread the mood in Auckland.
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October 18, 2021 7:33pm
- septic skeptic
  
  yep. It’s a small minority now in Auckland that are happy to have days off on full pay and binge netflix.
  
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  October 18, 2021 7:43pm
- altiora
  
  Don’t forget academics demanding further lockdowns, 95% vaccination rates, all comfortable in the knowledge that when they return, they’ll still have a job and their salary will still come. And they’ll probably get a gong in the New Year’s Honours. It has disgusted me how so many just think that if lockdown is a cosy nice affair for them, it must be for everyone else. Selfish to their core. I’m now going to the GP for anti-depressants and sleeping pills. Been off them for the 6 years, but the stress has been too much as I struggle to keep the revenue coming it. Now work has come to an abrupt stop, because what business can plan with no timeframes from the government. So tired. I want this to end badly.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:58pm
Warren

It shows what a bunch deceiving pricks this Government is after a Countdown Supermarket was closed this afternoon well before the podium of supposed truth began on Television at 4pm this afternoon in Dinsdale to be cleaned after being informed of having had Covid-19
Customers. Not a word or any reports of places of interest including Countdown Dinsdale in Hamilton.
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October 18, 2021 7:33pm
- krazykiwi
  
  “Cleaned”
  
  Pffff. It’s likely there have been >1 billion Covid infections. The number that can be attributed to fomite transmission is ZERO.
  
  This has been known for more than 12 months now.
  
  Where is this much vaunted ‘science’ ?
  
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  October 18, 2021 8:40pm
Maggy Wassilieff

More bad news released at nighttime by our MSM

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-1000-surgeries-cancelled-every-week/UWGKLTITX5AW77V4XQMIZLYWO4/

Wonder if this story will be on the NZ Herald website tomorrow morning.
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October 18, 2021 8:20pm
- septic skeptic
  
  What the hell happens if covid ever actually hits our health system. It would seem even the mildest outbreaks are enough to see the system itself on life support.
  
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  October 18, 2021 10:32pm
- Lance
  
  Yes, this is the untold story the failed media are not reporting.
  I am in need a seeing a specialist after being accepted for elective surgery. Should have been 2-3 weeks for the appointment. That was 10 FUCKING MONTHS AGO.
  With no end in sight. There are many like me in dire need of treatment.
  
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  October 18, 2021 11:01pm
graham

Oh look – a story about anti-vaxxers!

Except … they are Maori, so there’s no way they’ll be referred to as such.

Murupara kaumātua says locals waiting for ‘better vaccine’

A Murupara kaumātua says he and other local Māori don’t want the Pfizer vaccine and are waiting for other vaccines they think will be more effective.

The central North Island town has the lowest vaccination rate in the country despite the push to increase Māori vaccination rates. More than 90 per cent of its residents are Māori.

“We’re not following the Crown’s directive. That has been our position for a while,” he said. “We won’t jump when we’re told to. We want the freedom to choose. We want a different vaccine.”

If this was any other community, this would be heavily pushed as “anti-vax”. But you won’t see anything like that in this story.

Barbara Armstrong of the Bay of Plenty District Health Board says the low numbers are a concern.

“But I’m not here to tell anybody what is right for their body, for their whānau, what they need. I am happy to sit down and listen and see what we can do to improve the health of everyone.”

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/covid-19-delta-outbreak-murupara-doesnt-want-pfizer-vaccine-kaumatua-says/Q6AG522GP3HNNTTP7NXQNIQJ3E/

Oh, did I say you wouldn’t see any “anti-vax” messaging in this story? Not quite correct; but it’s not the kaumātua who is labelled as such, it’s the local GP who has committed the heinous crime of expressing “concerns with informed consent for children and pregnant women”.

If you don’t want to get wound up, I recommend you avoid this story.
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October 18, 2021 9:43pm
Fletch

This could be promising –

Bloomfield says they have nearly finalised advice on getting an alternative vaccine for people who are willing to be vaccinated but refuse to have the Pfizer vaccine.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/453768/northland-to-move-to-level-2-auckland-to-stay-in-level-3-step-1-for-two-weeks-pm

I wonder which one it is? Hope it is Nova. It’s not just the Pfizer that is unwilling to be taken. It is any mRNA vaccine. If it’s Janssen or Astra Zeneca, or J&J it’s just as bad.
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October 19, 2021 12:27am

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