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October 20, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 20 October 2021

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General Debate

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Benedict Yu

I see our favourite fun guy Baker is at it again. Auckland will need to be sealed off until everyone, including Maori, reach a 90 percent vaccination target.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300433291/covid19-auckland-should-keep-regional-boundary-as-long-as-possible-to-protect-country

It looks like Auckland will come close to 90 percent but nationally, it looks like it will stall and sputter below 85 percent.

As for Maori getting to 90 percent. Ha bloody ha.

So according to Baker that means Auckland will remain locked up. Forever. And you can all blame the unvaccinated. That will be the narrative. “They are the danger”. Can they see where this leads?

So let’s head outside little New Zealand to see what is happening. Because you won’t hear a peep about this from the media in New Zealand.

More good evidence is emerging about the rapid and sustained decline in the protection from infection afforded by Pfizer after 6 months, often using Israel as the test bed. This from the New England Journal of Medicine, a preeminent journal.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114583

A reminder, this decline in efficacy is about protection against infection with the virus, NOT hospitalisation and death, which holds up well.

This second study from Qatar is in the same journal.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2114114

Large scale study from Qatar. It is worth quoting this section of the findings in full.

“Estimated BNT162b2 effectiveness against any SARS-CoV-2 infection was negligible in the first 2 weeks after the first dose. It increased to 36.8% (95% confidence interval [CI], 33.2 to 40.2) in the third week after the first dose and reached its peak at 77.5% (95% CI, 76.4 to 78.6) in the first month after the second dose. Effectiveness declined gradually thereafter, with the decline accelerating after the fourth month to reach approximately 20% in months 5 through 7 after the second dose.”
________

My request to the PM.. There is now overwhelming evidence that after 12 months the vaccinated will spread this thing as effectively as the vaccinated, or close to it. Yes Jacinda I am disappointed too. But it is what it is. Thankfully protection against serious illness holds up well. Let’s hope that continues past 12 months otherwise we really will be in the shit.

People deserve to know how you are factoring this science into the “framework” that you announce on Friday. This data and world class analysis is not a conspiracy theory. It is SCIENCE. And the science says that your ‘framework’ cannot be constructed in an assumption that the vaccine will protect New Zealanders being infected from the virus much past 6 months post vaccination.

And New Zealand journalists. I read these articles in two hours this morning, plus some discussions about the articles in reputable secondary sources. If I can do that, so can you. I do it in my spare time but as a journalist it is actually your job.

The narrative from the government should be “The vaccine will do a great job of stopping you getting seriously ill and ending up in hospital” That is supported by rock solid evidence.

But a narrative that is “The vaccine will protect us all from becoming infected with the COVID virus” is simply not supported by the evidence.
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October 20, 2021 8:01am
- PhilBest
  
  The officials are issuing new lists every day of “locations of interest” – now there is “A West Auckland Park” on the list to go with all the petrol stations and supermarkets.
  Along with this is a casedemic or a pingdemic, of contact-traced people in their thousands, who aren’t going to get a single symptom of Covid.
  The state of official “science” in October 2021 is a disgrace, these officials from Tedros and Fauci down, should all be in jail, not getting misplaced adulation from masses of stupid people and politicians.
  In early 2020 we didn’t know who was at risk or how to protect them. But in October 2021 to be still indiscriminately carpet-bombing the economy and the whole of society with restrictions based on fear and ignorance, is not just incompetence, it is now a crime.
  I don’t see any petrol stations or supermarkets on the list of global deadly superspreading environments, let alone outdoor parks. I do see some environments conspicuous by their frequency, such as rest homes. You’d think people claiming to be “following science” might have looked at such data for guidance?
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:02am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    It’s always been a fake narrative and the harder they try to desperately maintain the spin the more it is crumbling. This is good news for all of us. The sooner it collapses the sooner we can have a real conversation and discussion about how to get our lives back. The lies are horrendous. The destruction of faith in media, government and the health sector will take years.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:16am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Outdoors locations are not worth tracing, Covid does not spread effectively outdoors. If the idiots in charge had any clues they would at least focus on indoors locations of interest.
    
    Parks, FFS
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:31am
    - PhilBest
      
      MANY, MANY FFS’s
      
      Yep, you get it!
      
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      October 20, 2021 3:03pm
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Give you a clue Benedict posting on KB is not writing to the PM who like all other MPs can be written to in Parliament.
  Instead of posturing here why not write to her?
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:14am
  - Paulus
    
    Write to her and her minions will bin it, with possible stereo copy acknowledgement.
    Do you really think that somebody as important as our Princess will take any note of anybody else ?
    She is beyond all that with the International APEC meeting shortly at which (our Wahine) New Zealand is the Chair, and the wedding stuff up.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:27am
    - John Pakes
      
      Twice, only twice, have I voiced my opinion to her, and both times I have been given a reply. Yes, from one of her “minions” as you call them, but they were replies on her behalf.
      I will give you a clue, make sure that she can tell that you are a real person. It does make a difference.
      
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      October 20, 2021 4:44pm
  - G152
    
    Right.
    And another way to waste time writing to Frau/Herr Cindy expecting common sense to prevail !!!!!
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:28am
  - Frank the tank
    
    LOL as if she would listen to a voice of reason.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:31am
  - pdm
    
    Waste of time – if you are lucky you get a reply that does not relate to your subject – the reply is about covid and then utter silence.
    
    In short Jacinda Ardern does not reply to letters challenging or questioning actions of the Government she leads.
    
    Either she does not understand or is too embarrassedto defend her governments actions.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:34am
    - Bluegrass
      
      Lèse-majesté…
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:49am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yeah I have no idea who you are. But really is that the best you can do?
    
    And seriously dude if I wanted an example of of someone ‘posturing’ on David Farrar’s blog I would point to you.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:46am
    - WaveyDavey
      
      Hi Benedict
      
      Brian’s a double-killer and child-murderer.
      
      If you google “Brian Ronald McDonald” you’ll find out exactly who he is
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/99273873/convicted-murderer-behind-scott-watson-appeal
      
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      October 20, 2021 8:54am
    - igm
      
      Google Brian McDonald Auckland . . . that will astound you!
      
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      October 20, 2021 8:56am
  - Ra Henare
    
    Yep, could write to the PM or MPs, lucky if you get a reply!!
    Been there done that.
    
    The PM is driven by Political Optics not letters from ordinary people.
    
    When she senses the population are changing(thanks to information spread from people like Benedict and others) then she will “‘adjust””.
    
    Lots of Government critical media messages at the moment. So standby for changes away from her Science experts (vomit inducing modelers, and Baker and Jackson)
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:55am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I’ve been picking that those bevy of “experts” and academic modelers are being lined up as cannon fodder for the masses. It’s telling she has so many of them, she’s going to need a fleet of buses to throw them all under.
      
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      October 20, 2021 10:34am
  - I remember when
    
    I have heard she isn’t even likely to read policy advice if she doesn’t agree with it.
    That is from people who are paid to give her direction.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:34am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Write it in crayon, and start it with ‘Mummy told me…”, then Cindy will read it.
    She told us, she read EVERY letter sent by children.
    That’s why she banned single use plastic bags.
    
    “Let’s Do This!”
    
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    October 20, 2021 12:01pm
- 70andstilllearning
  
  Great comment BY – but the real agenda is about getting your “vaxxed status” into a “data base” that she/they can then link to existent databases (e.g Justice) for future purposes. Remember your NHI doesn’t really link you to the others presently but your DLorPassportorBirth Cert etc “required” for a “vax passport” sure does.
  
  PS: Do you every sleep 🙂
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:18am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I have trouble sleeping. I usually wake about 3.00 am.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:47am
    - 70andstilllearning
      
      Give it a month odd and it will just about be day light then down your way. (Astronomical Twilight Chch start 3:21 a.m. 13-19 Dec)
      
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      October 20, 2021 8:56am
    - Taieri
      
      I have trouble sleeping. I usually wake about 3.00 am
      ———————-
      Not to worry. Write to your Labour MP and they will pass a law directing you to sleep.
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:56am
- Simon
  
  “NOT hospitalisation and death, which holds up well.”
  
  Thats fast changing. Anyway the good news is that the IFF is .002. So its all good. If you are healthy you dont need the vaxx.
  
  Remember kiddes if you are old and unhealthy to book your boosters in March next year.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:37am
- Scott
  
  Love that gimlet eyed Michael Baker guy! He just loves to lock people down. If he had his way Auckland would be locked down in level 4 for the next two years. The rest of New Zealand would be in level 3. Finally when 105% of all New Zealanders are vaccinated then we can lift restrictions in Auckland and they can go back to having picnics outside, wearing masks in small groups of two!
  
  Seriously with these epidemiologists they know more and more about less and less. They don’t have to factor in the economic cost, the human misery, the mental health catastrophe that is being caused by lockdowns!
  
  That’s why we have elected officials. They need to make decisions weighing up what is good for the whole of New Zealand.
  In my opinion these epidemiologists need to be sent back to the lab and never heard from again.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:40am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    ‘If he had his way Auckland would be locked down in level 4 for the next two years.’
    
    he’s not worried – “As he explains by phone from his state of isolation in the hillside suburb of Brooklyn,…..”
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/120784539/man-for-this-moment–epidemiologist-michael-baker
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:49am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Baker has long held a fantasy of a deadly “world pandemic” so that NZ can become a land of pixies, fairy dust and unicorns, that lives a fantasy life in paradise – the envy of the world. Seriously. He has written a paper along these lines. Worth having a read through.
    
    https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0178732
    
    Then look at his history. A career academic, never worked in a real job in his life. Received funding from the CDC in 2015. The Otago University Infection Group gets funding from GAVI and the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, so conflict of interest when it comes to pushing vaccines. No conspiracy theories, just interesting observations.
    Baker seems disturbed to me. He lives in a fantasy world and is thriving on his moment in the spotlight.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:43am
    - Batman
      
      Its almost as if his specialist area is pandemics and vaccination. Wow, shocking revelation there laddy!
      
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      October 20, 2021 1:57pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    The lockdowns require Bloomfield’s authorisation. It’s his judgement by virtue of his Office and no one else’s. He cannot delegate it either or package it into a formula either.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:59am
    - Paulus
      
      But we already have the acknowledgement from Bloomfield that his advise is not always taken by our Captain – it is her political Call remember.
      
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      October 20, 2021 1:00pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Cinder’s call is irrelevant–he has the Office with the power.
        
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        October 20, 2021 4:02pm
  - Stu2
    
    Share a cell with Tamaki?
    
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    October 21, 2021 12:00am
- Michael Johnston
  
  Yesterday I made a semi-facetious comment about deliberately getting infected after receiving the second vaccine dose. But actually, as a public health strategy, taking into account the study you cite, it would make perfect sense to open up fully a few weeks after most people have had their second shot, which would probably be about the beginning of December. If we wait for stragglers, everyone else’s immunity will have waned. Much better to take the brunt of the inevitable outbreak when population immunity is at its maximum.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:41am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Infections will be at a low over summer anyway, except for places with significant occupation in public shared air conditioned spaces where the air is mainly recycled.
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:34am
  - oc35
    
    Finally some logic
    
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    October 20, 2021 2:52pm
- Wayne Mapp
  
  What makes you say it will stall at 85%, given this has already been achieved? I appreciate that the current 85% is levered up a small amount by Aucklands’s 90%. Nevertheless are you seriously suggesting no new people will get their first dose? That seems highly unlikely.
  
  I agree it will take another 3 or 4 weeks to get to 90% given the daily increase in first doses seems to be 0.2%.
  
  More serious is the Maori rate which is 71% in Auckland and less elsewhere. I suspect that this will stall at between 80 and 85%. And even that will take another 6 weeks or so. Basically through to Christmas, and there will still be a significant number with only one dose. It will be near the end of January to get 85% of Maori with two doses.
  
  But it is also clear that NZ will open up (at least for internal travel) before Christmas, no doubt with more freedoms for the fully vaccinated.
  
  So Maori have effectively been put on notice they have 6 weeks left to get vaccinated, given the two weeks it takes for the vaccine to have any effect.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:41am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    “What makes you say it will stall at 85%, given this has already been achieved? ”
    
    OK I will rephrase. Getting from 85 percent to 90 percent will be challenging. To get to 90 percent there needs to be 210,700 people out there who still want to get vaccinated but have yet to have a first dose. That seems a tall order.
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-data-and-statistics/covid-19-vaccine-data
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:27am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Wayne, I question why we should wait for Maori. They’ve had the same chance as Caucasian and Asian NZ’rs to get vaccinated, and it is their problem if they fall seriously ill. From the stats I saw some time ago, Maori 50+ age group were over 90% double vaccinated? So it is younger Maori. And of course we know that the odds on younger people falling seriously ill are very low. I reckon we should get on with it now.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:32am
    - John Pakes
      
      You seem to miss the point. It does not matter to me if they fall ill. What does matter to me is that they could cause me to get ill. So they must get vaccinated.
      And I want my passport. My passport is hinged on that 90% vaccination rate.
      The more there are vaccinated, the merrier we will be!
      
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      October 20, 2021 4:51pm
      - Benedict Yu
        
        “What does matter to me is that they could cause me to get ill. ”
        
        I am not sure if you read my comments regularly. But this is the deal:
        
        You will get COVID.
        
        If you are vaccinated you will be fine.
        
        6 months down the track you are just as likely to be infected by a vaccinated person vs an unvaccinated person.
        
        You are welcome.
        
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        October 20, 2021 5:14pm
- Stu2
  
  “It looks like Auckland will come close to 90 percent but nationally, it looks like it will stall and sputter below 85 percent.”
  
  Eventually cases will push the national level up. Comparing the rates in NSW to other states shows what a sizable outbreak does to the hesitant.
  But that may not be until after the opening up algebra.
  
  The Waikato clusters haven’t exploded. Maybe contact tracing is delivering there. The unlinked cases suggest it is struggling in Auckland
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:28am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Great stuff. It’s information that’s been around for a while now but never mentioned anywhere in the kingdom of the “single source of truth”. Kim jung il must be green with envy, Ardern will be getting emails requesting advice and guidance every day on how to wage such an effective brainwashing campaign.
  
  I’d ask one thing though, where is the “rock solid evidence” that stops you getting seriously ill and ending up in hospital? I’d genuinely like to see it. I may be looking in the wrong places.
  Evidence from Israel doesn’t support that position once a longer time frame is considered.
  
  “Indeed, the majority of the nearly 700 Israelis currently hospitalized due to COVID-19 are fully vaccinated against that virus, and vaccinated individuals make up a large percentage, if not a majority of those testing positive every day.”
  
  https://www.israeltoday.co.il/read/is-pfizer-vaccine-to-blame-for-israels-high-covid-infection-rate/
  
  If there is any initial protection how long does it last for? How many booster shots will be needed? What will the long term effects of this experiment be on the body? I agree with most of what you say, I disagree with your absolute assertion that the vaccination is overall beneficial, certainly to the very vast number of normal, reasonably healthy people without serious underlying conditions. I have seen no evidence that this vaccine is proven to be either safe or effective. I am open to evidence to change my mind.
  I enjoy reading all your posts, you research thoroughly.
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:08am
- Mrs_Right
  
  She will push this ridiculous ‘90% rate’ because she wants to wear the crown for the highest vaccinated country in the world!
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:12am
Kiwi_in_Paris

Joe Rogan discussing UK jibby jab effectiveness:
https://twitter.com/kent_keith/status/1450360092096933894
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October 20, 2021 8:01am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Isn’t it an incredible indictment on mainstream media that a former comedian and cage fighting commentator is a better source of reliable news and information than they are? Similar with Jimmy Dore.
  They both get smeared unrelentingly but most people aren’t stupid which is why both are seeing their audience rise massively.
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:12am
  - ISeeRed
    
    Russell Brand is another one. I had written him off years ago as just another leftie luvvie when he’d appear on BBC’s Question Time. Definitely still left-wing in many ways but open-minded, respectful and charitable towards many “right-wing” positions and people.
    
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    October 20, 2021 2:05pm
Yvette

Newshub understands the Government is not leaning toward a specific Māori vaccination target.
Even although – Māori have made up 45 percent of COVID-19 cases over the past fortnight, leading to calls that any easing of restrictions shouldn’t be considered until Māori vaccination rates are high enough.

But Associate Health Minister for Māori, Peeni Henare – “… I say to the Māori people: COVID-19 is on the doorstep of your houses. Do not let it enter, and the best course of protection still remains for us to vaccinate our people.”

The time is now, Ināia tonu nei, to lead the change we want to see and to remain steadfast to the values that underpin our nationhood—values like whanaungatanga, kaitiakitanga and manaakitanga. [and defining those values – ] We recognise the power of being connected to each other, having an ethic of care, respect in the way we progress, and taking care of things for ourselves and our mokopuna. [1]
See, the apparently longish Maori words just mean the basic community values we all else supposedly have.

The relevance of the Treaty is that the “Crown”, under Article 3, does offer ‘royal protection” – currently that is the vaccination – and that is all there is! – apart from a few hygiene, spacing in shopping, anti-gathering and bubble rules.
But the hoiho can lead you to water, but under the Bill of Human Rights you can’t be forced to drink.
The Maori, with Treaty edicted full equality of “British subject” status, have the responsibility of that citizenship to avail themselves of the protection offered … or not.

And it is as simple as that.
While the Government (Crown) endeavoured to eliminate the virus from this land, it is present.
Each individual, 12 , has to decide if she or he avails herself or himself of the only protection known to be available. Or risk becoming seriously ill or perhaps dying.

Is the Crown on Friday going to set a “target” for non-Maori, but for some reason, not for Maori, whom they have regularly repeated are both the most vulnerable and the least vaccinated?

It still simply stands, that those who “Once Were Warriors” face the same life or perhaps death decision as every other New Zealand Aotearoa inhabitant, over 12 – balance the information you have, consider your responsibilities and aspirations – and get vaccinated … or not.

[1] page iv, from the prefacing policy statement, Ināia tonu nei: a low emissions future for Aotearoa – the Climate Change Commission
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October 20, 2021 8:02am
- Littletramp
  
  Yvette,
  Do you think that maybe 45% of covid cases over the past fortnight being maori, may be an outcome of covid getting into the gang system in Auckland as opposed to maori somehow being a different subspecies of the human race that are more susceptible to covid?
  Some people are jumping to wild assumptions and conclusions based on tiny subsets of data.
  All these scary models of what is ahead of us just may be way off target if the oncoming Summer weather suppresses the covid transmission on it’s own.
  Maybe the best solution is not mass vaccination but just opening the windows and getting outside.
  Let’s see.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:55am
Don Beckett

Trevor Loudon exposes Jacinda Ardern as running very dangerous government, and exposes her agenda:
https://www.bitchute.com/video/I0sMPkKLEM8A/

She is not particularly bright, but she is well schooled in socialism & the communist agenda, and if she has another term, this coutry is finished as a democratic western society.
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October 20, 2021 8:03am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  Sadly, I think that horse has already bolted.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:13am
- igm
  
  These types come unstuck in a big way . . . look at Benito!
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:16am
  - oldfella
    
    Yep, igm, like Benito they get ankle tapped (hanged by them in Il Duce’s case).
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:37am
- ecco
  
  Wow interesting link and true depiction of Ardern. Thanks.
  Illustrates why she doesn’t mind cuddling up to the CCP.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:54am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Only if we let her.
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:01am
Ra Henare

Isnt it about time that NZ joined the rest of the sensible world.
I refer to the 14 day MIQ for Kiwis coming home.

Maybe its time for Fully Vaxed Kiwis coming home to have relief from teh draconian current situation.

To start how about 7 days MIQ
Moving to 7 days at home for those fully vaxed when the country goes to level 2.
So much technology available to monitor those self isolating.
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October 20, 2021 8:05am
- Kiwi_in_Paris
  
  I just checked my, “insane things I will never do” list.
  
  I see that a few days ago I added, “return to New Zealand” just under, “take part in an unpaid medical trial”.
  
  Good luck in the gulag.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:48am
  - Sacha
    
    Thanks, Kiwi_in_Paris 🙂
    
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    October 20, 2021 12:09pm
- Sacha
  
  How about giving each person coming into NZ an instruction sheet detailing symptoms, and a
  ‘care package’ to use so that they can look after themselves if they feel ever so slightly ‘fluey’?
  And have a medical hot-line available 24/7 to answer calls.
  The MoH could have a public education campaign advising people to open windows, and get outside into the sunshine and fresh air, & reminding people not to cough without covering their nose/mouth, and to wash their hands – that’s not only good advice health-wise, but good manners as well. It could tell us to eat well, avoid high sugar items in the diet, eat food with the vital vitamins and zinc .
  And then everyone could get on with living.
  
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  October 20, 2021 12:08pm
Warren

Surprise surprise there are people out there that support the Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern that are now saying she lied at her press conference yesterday and looked bewildered and lost in her bid to control the narrative on COVID-19 and the Delta strain that has swamped New Zealand.
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October 20, 2021 8:07am
- Ruawai
  
  Which lie was that Warren?
  
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  October 20, 2021 12:33pm
Tony Stuart

Remember those halcyon days when the Prime Minister told us that Covid was the problem, and we shouldn’t pick on those who had contracted the virus?

It seems those days are well and truly over, and the PM’s gloves are off.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-nzs-grim-new-record-94-cases-seven-in-waikato-pm-blasts-level-3-rule-breakers/MK4XLUYN6D7A3UHMCUB6JVPBLM/
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October 20, 2021 8:11am
- Brian McDonald
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Remember the days when you would have not defended those likely to spread the virus Tony?
  I understand you are not working now but the sentiment is high in business in Auckland, including law firms, “no vax take a hike.”
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:17am
  - Simon
    
    Brian eh? He thought Cindy was on top of covid, thought the economy was fine and believed with all his might that the vaxx was 95% effective. Kept repeating this as it was all falling apart.
    
    Still Labo’s bull shit helped many of the frightened sleep at night.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:33am
  - Frank the tank
    
    How’s the vax rate among can collector’s Brian?
    
    Given most of your competition is under the age of 12 – you should be demanding the ‘Chipster’ mandate vaxx for can collectors.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:34am
  - Libertarians are right
    
    Actually, it’s “No Vax – work from home”.
    Seriously, I’m not sure that’s actually going to help get people vaccinated at all.
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:58am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Yes Tony and this is coming soon to a country near you!
  
  The US, under the current White House resident, is blatantly ‘A Nation Divided’
  (As explained in the below video. Starts at about 3 mins in)
  
  https://www.facebook.com/TuckerCarlsonTonight/videos/381137813713844/
  
  It seems to have already started here because Comrade St Cindy has been using the expression “Pandemic Of The Unvaccinated”
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:25am
- Benedict Yu
  
  You have to wonder. It the next polls show the government has 40 percent plus support with the Greens still on 10 percent, there is no hope ?
  
  Judith says some stuff that makes sense but she is also marred by an apparent lack of understanding of how the vaccines work and how the virus is likely to spread through the population.
  
  Interestingly different picture from the UK and USA. Cases in the UK are skyrocketing. Fueled by 11 to 18 year olds. They then infect parents most of whom are vaccinated. Hospitalisations and deaths are doing OK. But the virus is now tearing through a largely vaccinated population.
  
  In the USA cases are falling steadily. Jury still out on reasons but most likely is the virus is having trouble spreading because about 100 million people have infection acquired immunity which seems to be longer lasting than vaccine acquired immunity.
  
  So the pictures in the UK and the USA, plus the great academic research I posted this morning… It all points to the virus unfolding in New Zealand NOTHING like Jacinda tells you.
  
  Seriously how are thousands of vaccinated New Zealanders going to react in 12 months when they get covid? 99 percent will be fine if they are vaccinated, but they will realise that they were lied to.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:25am
  - Brian McDonald
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    If Covid is a war Benedict few Kiwis desert even when there are f ups, they tend to get on with it boots and all for the greater good. The land of the Long White White Cloud is the home of the underdog that never quits, that is not a political thing but an underestimated characteristic.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:42am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      OK I get it you must be a Labour Party activist.
      
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      October 20, 2021 8:50am
      - Ra Henare
        
        No Benedict, he is living in the past. His rant is no longer true. Too many modern Kiwis are woke and in to saving the planet and putting their hand out for assistance from the Government.
        Unlike post war Kiwis.
        
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        October 20, 2021 9:00am
      - Simon
        
        “OK I get it you must be a Labour Party activist.”
        
        Yep. As much as National party is fairly useless its individual member tend to be good reasonable people. Well the ones around here. Though can get things wrong.
        
        As opposed to the Labo types here. They are just mindless grey goo.
        
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        October 20, 2021 9:21am
    - cmm
      
      Fuck me Brian. You’re always spouting bullshit about the Kiwis getting stuck in for the greater good, military sacrifice etc.
      
      You seem to wrap your personal worth in this, but
      have YOU ever acted for the greater good? Have you ever served in the military?
      
      It is hard to think of more selfish acts than being a criminal. You really need to look in the mirror a bit more.
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:22am
      - Benedict Yu
        
        Who said he was a criminal? I just find him a little annoying 🙂
        
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        October 20, 2021 9:29am
      - All_on_Red
        
        David Garrett in 3,2 1…
        
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        October 20, 2021 9:39am
      - cmm
        
        BY: I don’t think Brian has ever denied being Brian Ronald McDonald who has some history.
        
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        October 20, 2021 9:46am
      - igm
        
        He would never have been accepted . . . the services cater for decent genuine people.
        
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        October 20, 2021 5:03pm
    - Aquataur
      
      There is a war going on – but not the one the PM is promoting.
      
      The real war should not be on defeating Covid but on protecting freedoms, removing the state controlled media, and rolling back the intrusion of the State into individual lives, all on the pretext of a phony war against a virus.
      
      Unfortunately, most of my fellow Kiwis are too stupid to see this, and have taken up the wrong crusade.
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:33am
      - Nickc2
        
        You’ve got my vote!
        
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        October 20, 2021 10:11am
      - mawm
        
        To quote Benjamin Franklin: “Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.”
        
        Irrespective of one’s vaccine status, that’s a personal choice, we should be all be fighting the introduction of the so called vaccine passport.
        
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        October 20, 2021 5:32pm
  - cmm
    
    “Judith says some stuff that makes sense but she is also marred by an apparent lack of understanding of how the vaccines work and how the virus is likely to spread through the population.”
    
    BY: I would not assume that she does not understand. There are three huge problems working against her:
    * What we see of her is through the MSM filter. They select what they say according to the image of her that they want to project.
    * Whatever she says has to be within the window of what the public (and MSM) will accept. That has been hugely distorted.
    * The MSM listen to every word she says, hoping for something they can turn into labelling her as a crackpot etc. No doubt she is doing a great job of self-censorship.
    
    As you have often pointed out, most people will not accept that they will get he virus after their vaccination. Many become extremely hostile if you inform them.
    
    Most people would like to think that we’re lucky (just lucky for being here, or lucky to have Cindy). They’d even prefer to believe that we’ve done the right thing and got here by exceptional action, leadership and team of 5 million etc. When the situation changes you can be certain that Cindy won’t go under the bus – some scapegoat will be found (and the unvaccinated and level 3 partygoers have been lined up for the job).. People always want something/someone to blame for their reversals of fortune.
    
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    October 20, 2021 8:44am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes really good points. Thanks
      
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      October 20, 2021 8:50am
    - Yvette
      
      Cmm – some scapegoat will be found
      
      In a Hollowood movie scenario the crooked President may even seek release from the corner she has politically painted herself into, by having agents tour ~~Northland~~ Upper New York state, and other agents organise a mega super-spreader party ~~on the North Shore~~ in Beverly Hills, and Oakland hit s new whooping number of cases.
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:20am
    - ecco
      
      Will be handy if it all blows up before the next election, ie round Dec 22, so some of the Jacinda fans can see that she sold them a pup re the vaccine protection then. As BY says if Ardern is still holding up in the 40s in the next poll then NZ is in real trouble.
      
      Disclosure- I have been vaccinated. Will be interesting to see how NZ fares in the next 6 months re infection of the vaccinated as the vaccine will be wearing off for many of the early vaccinated and if some commenters on KB are correct it will be endemic. I will be watching these numbers with interest.
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:47am
  - Ed Snack
    
    Interestingly enough Benedict, UK government figures estimate that around 98% of the adult population in the UK has antibodies to Covid, with around 20% being “natural immunity” from a prior infection.
    
    If true then most of the current cases in the adult population just about have to be vaccinated people as there are damn all unvaccinated who don’t have natural immunity.
    
    Also noted that if one excludes seriously ill young people (so excluding cancer sufferers for example) than the UK deaths amongst this young group is approximately zero.
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:41am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  100% compliance is unrealistic. If your plan fails when a small number of people out of 1.5 million do not follow rules, your plan was no good in the first place. Any strategy has to take into account human nature.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:54am
  - Ehlana
    
    True. Sensible planning though might have included providing more than one vaccination option. I gather there are very few people who can’t take the Pfizer vaccine, and it may be there is no vaccine they could take.
    
    But there are other groups. One is those who believe there is a problem with the Pfizer type vaccine, but would take a different one if it were on offer.
    
    There are those who lack the will or skills to organise themselves for two vaccinations, who could be reached with a vaccine that requires only one shot, especially if it was delivered in places they gather.
    
    There are those in more remote locations where it may be more practical to use a vaccine that requires less stringent delivery mechanisms than the Pfizer, especially with regard to refrigeration.
    All of these people are still capable of getting Covid and getting sick enough to require ICU beds.
    
    So if the aim is to protect the hospital system, which should certainly be one of the aims, then it is worth taking a variety of routes to get there.
    
    Not to mention of course, that other vaccines might have been available when Pfizer was not.
    Remember that before we went into the current lockdown (mid-August, if you’re losing track) we were only vaccinating groups 1-3 (high risk) and people 55+ in group 4.
    
    It’s only been since the beginning of September that vaccination has been available to the majority of the population. So in choosing December as the “no further lockdown” date, Judith Collins is being realistic given the government’s performance to date.
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:12am
    - Hard Cheese
      
      This x 1000.
      
      If they’d gone ahead with the Janssen single-shot vaccine as an option like they said they would, you’d only have to get to all the hard-to-reach Maori holdouts once instead of twice.
      
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      October 20, 2021 1:10pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Looks like Depressing news days are ahead of us folks..

I can’t see the Covid situation improving by Dec 16… when NZ closes down (goes into lockdown) for a couple of months.

Our Dear Leader needs to deliver some good news over this time…. because 2022 is shaping up to be another year of mismanage, muddles and misery.
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October 20, 2021 8:18am
- Frank the tank
  
  LOL.
  
  You ain’t getting outta Auckland for Christmas.
  
  I can’t wait for all the Cindy luvvies in the burbs to realize they ain’t going to the batch for Christmas holidays…
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:37am
- Michael Johnston
  
  I’d be willing to take one more year of pain if it meant the end of Ardern’s term as Prime Minister in 2023. Trouble is, people – and especially women for some reason – seem to go on adoring her no matter how badly she wrecks the country.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:47am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    I don’t believe you need worry on that score. My prediction is she will voluntarily move on to her pre ordained position at the UN after the next election, win or lose. I’ll be back with an update when the time comes!
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:27am
- gravedodger
  
  And marriage Maggy, though that might get to be problematical the way the unravelling is going?
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:56am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Well, if it was me…I wouldn’t have walked out on Bushmere Arms because their Gardens are going to be spectacular this summer…and wedding photos /videos would attract a wider audience than Peter Gordon’s menu…..
    
    but what would I know… having been married 44 years ago in Anvil House
    https://bayleys-pri-cdn-endpoint.azureedge.net/listing-images/3253752/3253752_1_Listing_v2.jpg?v=637636758962130000
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:29am
- oldfella
  
  Maggy, a wedding later this year, or early 2022, will do wonders to boost the team’s spirits.
  A live telecast of the event, a Woman’s Weekly cover story (Top Bloke Fisherman Hooks Blushing Bride Superstar), plus a public holiday so we can all celebrate. I’m in. /s
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:48am
  - Nickc2
    
    Blushing Bride? The only thing that would make that bride blush is being reminded of some of the lies she’s told and she hasn’t got any pre-prepared scripts to guide her answers.
    
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    October 20, 2021 2:25pm
- mawm
  
  Dear leader has a new Bach she purchased on the Coromandel. Maybe she’s planning to go there?
  
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  October 20, 2021 5:35pm
lastmanstanding

Some random thoughts on Climate Change.

China the biggest emitter by far is continuing to build coal fired power stations.

China wont be signing up to anything at COP26.

China owns 80% of the wind and solar power equipment suppliers.

The so called Leaders at COP26 wont be around in 2050. In fact most will be pushing up the daisies

China continues to grow its economy on the back of fossil fuel.

NZ needs to double its energy output by 2040 to meet demand especially from EVs.

The West will grow weaker as it reduces its energy outputs relative to demand.

The UK is looking at a winter where its citizens cant heat their homes.

There isnt any proven new energy sources for NZ.

Greens wont allow any more hydro. Nuke is off the table. Wind and solar only work some times.

Have I missed anything. Probably.

NZ at COP26 will be signing a suicide note.
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October 20, 2021 8:19am
- pdm
  
  I bet China would buy our quality South Island coal.
  
  Another missed opportunity for economic growth by the Ardern Government.
  
  Stupid.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:37am
- Justitia
  
  It will be a double whammy. Not only will the West deprive itself of reliable, affordable energy but one day we will wake up and realize that the UN IPCC’s modelling greatly exaggerated the extent of warming and was wrong about its causes. Judith Curry has recently posted two excellent peer-reviewed papers which make these very points, noting in particular that water vapour in the form of changes in cloud permeability has had by far the major impact on warming in the past 20 years.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:47am
  - Justitia
    
    First paper: https://judithcurry.com/2021/08/17/new-confirmation-that-climate-models-overstate-atmospheric-warming-2/
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:22am
  - Justitia
    
    Second paper: https://judithcurry.com/2021/10/10/radiative-energy-flux-variations-from-2000-2020/
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:24am
- cmm
  
  It isn’t really fair to just point a finger and say that China is a huge emitter for two major reasons:
  1) Population size. Emissions per population would be a far better measure.
  2) Much of their emissions go into manufacturing for products consumed throughout the world. If the buying countries were manufacturing these items themselves then they would be emitting more instead.
  
  The last point has many parallels with NZ. The vast majority of our agricultural produce is exported. The emissions should really be assigned to the people consuming the product.
  
  Side note: Agriculture in NZ is really carbon capturing, but that’s a fight for another day.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:50am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    No, the emissions should be charged to the producers – the ones doing the activity that creates the emissions. Consumers will end up paying in the form of higher prices for goods.
    
    The alternative is unrealistic. If someone in London eats a chocolate bar, the components of that chocolate bar plus the machinery used in farming and production come from all over the globe. Nobody can keep track of the emissions involved and decide on a fair carbon charge.
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:05am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Here’s a thought
      Just scrap the whole thing altogether.
      It doesn’t make any difference what so ever- except help Climate Activists get rich
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:25am
      - All_on_Red
        
        Oh, and hurt the poor with a high cost of living.
        
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        October 20, 2021 9:32am
    - cmm
      
      For actual $ pricing I agree with you, but for the moral smugness it is down to the consumer.
      
      Consider a farmer producing food for thousands of other people to feed. Should they be told they are bad because they are emitting?
      
      Now consider a person who does SFA for the world (maybe some office worker that just generates PowerPoints). They’re not producing anything so they need to eat the food the farmer makes. Should they feel smug that they are not polluting, but that evil farmer is (while munching the food the farmer produced)?
      
      Same really goes for manufacturing.
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:27am
      - All_on_Red
        
        China is really short of protein. Its an ongoing problem and a key issue for their leadership.
        But here we are, getting rid of farmland and forcing farmers to produce less when we should be ramping farming up, feeding the Chinese and making a fortune.
        
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        October 20, 2021 9:37am
    - Ed Snack
      
      Remember how the “accounting” is done. If Indonesia mines coal and exports it, no carbon emission is accounted for by Indonesia. NZ, that imports the coal does have that emission counted. If NZ mined coal and exported it to Indonesia, NZ would have that coal counted against it. Indonesia, that imported the coal would not.
      
      The “accounting” is a purely political exercise and does not represent any reality related to carbon emissions. It is simply magical thinking to assume that it does.
      
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      October 20, 2021 11:47am
  - slightlyrighty
    
    I think that emissions per head of population is way misleading.
    
    It should be indexed against GDP.
    
    Case in point, NZ produced 0.09% of global CO2 emissions, but produces 0.24% of global GDP.
    
    China produces 15% of Global GDP, but 30% of Global CO2.
    
    If China had an economy that was as carbon efficient as NZ, then world emissions would drop by over 24%.
    
    Now, China is the worlds factory, but perhaps we need to ask if they should be justifying all the stuff they are producing?
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:57am
- emmess
  
  Alway remember that China pumps more C02 PER CAPITA than little old New Zealand
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:07am
  - Nickc2
    
    Plants would die without CO2. Pump out more, let’s green the deserts. That would be more meaningful and helpful to mankind.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:18am
- rockape
  
  Nuclear energy is all you have missed but NZ will eventually catch up.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:12am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

No surprise to see where the Crown have dropped the charges against Bishop Brian. The police opposed it of course.
But what chance did they have?
Andy Cap himself gave The Bish permission to proceed in the first place for goodness sake!

https://twitter.com/Xcell84/status/1450323229952790529/photo/1

It’s Hannah we feel the most happy for.
She’s such a lovely, sophisticated, intelligent lady.
The power behind the Throne.
One of the girls at tennis was saying she drives a white Bentley.
Could easily be…. ‘One Of Us’
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October 20, 2021 8:25am
- pdm
  
  Maggie
  
  If she gets a dinky white dress she could play tennis with you by the sounds of it.
  
  Oh and white bloomers too I suppose.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:39am
  - Flossie
    
    “white bloomers”!!! LMAO!!!
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:07am
- Scott
  
  Bishop Brian is one of the few leaders in our nation that is standing up against the Covid tyranny. Apparently people say that there were 4000 at the last protest in Auckland even though the media say there was a thousand.
  
  Right now at this moment we need other voices than our bloody Prime Minister telling us to wash our bloody hands and stay home and wear a mask and be kind! And yes I am shouting!!
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:45am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    And did you read where a recent Study found that Brains were actually the most washed body part of 2021, closely followed by the Hands.
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:50am
    - Alan Wilkinson
      
      Classic bulls-eye, Maggie. ??
      
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      October 20, 2021 10:09am
- mandk
  
  One thing in Bishop Brian’s favour is that he has actually helped a reasonable number of M&P males get off P and away from the clutches of the gangs.
  
  Meanwhile, Cindy and the Crim Huggers …
  
  … well, you know the story.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:03am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I reckon the charges against Tamaki were dropped so the Crown would not have to follow up with charges against Labour for their illegal pamphlet drop.
  Straight from the top.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:33am
- In Vino Veritas
  
  I think it was Lester Del Rey that famously told L Ron Hubbard, “If you want to get really rich, start a religion”. So Hubbard did. And he did.
  
  The Bish is only following in his footsteps. The Lord certainly provides! Bentley, his and hers Harley’s, multiple properties and more. That’s just reward for a life of service…..
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:42am
kowtow

Front page of the Ferald

“The communities most at risk are those that are un vaccinated and young Maori and Pacifica are the most unvaccinated groups in the country”

The science tells us the most at risk are the old , the sick and immune compromised , are people with those characteristics a “community”.

I’d also suggest that even the vaccinated elderly and sick will continue to be the most at risk and fit young Maoris and Pacific Islanders won’t even know they have the lab created bug.

How the Ferald can put such unscientific tosh on their front page is not beyond me , but they should be ashamed of themselves and their fear porn propaganda campaign.
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October 20, 2021 8:26am
Maggy Wassilieff

Well at least one Labour Minister can admit he took his eyes off the ball…

Henare said he could have “had a closer eye on the DHBs from the start”.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018817039/covid-19-is-on-the-doorstep-henare-s-stark-warning-to-maori

It’s not as if he hasn’t had 19 months to crack the whip and make sure the DHBs were prepared.

and being “locked down” in Wellington – level 2 is nothing like 10 weeks of Lockdown in Auckland – Level 4 , level 3 , level3.1.
“But the purpose for me of coming down here and locking down here in Wellington is to continue to push the kaupapa for Māori and in particular for my whānau in Tāmaki Makaurau so I make no apologies for it.”
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October 20, 2021 8:32am
- Frank the tank
  
  Too busy jamming his face full of pies.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:39am
- Scott
  
  Can I just say that I hate these labour ministers pronouncements which imply an obvious point that their only concern is Maori people and everyone else can take a hike. What he is saying is borderline racist.
  
  Imagine if a white politician got up and said – “the purpose of me coming here to Wellington is to continue to push policies for white people and in particular for my white relatives in Auckland, so stuff you noddy!”
  
  How quickly would it take for the media to call for that white politician to resign?
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:48am
- cmm
  
  If Henare really cared for Maori he’d be:
  * Telling them to get off the couch and get some exercise.
  * Telling them to step away from the KFC and lose a few kg.
  
  The Maori are not equally prone to complications (from CV19 or diabetes or whatever). The risks are concentrated in the fattest of the fat.
  
  Honestly addressing the elephant in the room is the most important things anyone could do to improve Maori health.
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:55am
  - Tomtoddy
    
    It is part of the reason why there is so much focus on getting Maori vaccinated. When Covid spreads more widely over the next few weeks obese Maori and Pacific Islanders will be hit badly.
    
    Every winter Middlemore suffers a deluge of overweight Pacifica and Maori with respiratory issues. Covid multiples that many times over.
    
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    October 20, 2021 9:37am
    - Diogenes
      
      I had a possibly revealing conversation last night with a Maori friend who is a leader in his particular area. He is not anti-vaccine, but said many Maori won’t have the current vaccine because it is mRna based. They are waiting until the non-mRna becomes available. If he represents even a fairly small portion of Maori, that indicates that a high rate of vaccination is not likely among those people for some time to come.
      
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      October 20, 2021 9:54am
    - cmm
      
      It is a myth of socialism: vote for us and we can socialise your problems.
      
      * Don’t have a job, no skills? No worries, we’ll all chip in and you can have the dole.
      * Don’t have a place to live? Got kicked out of your previous place for trashing it and being a shitty tenent? No worries: here’s a state house or a motel to stay in. We’ll all pay.
      * Participate in high risk activities? No worries, we’ve got ACC. Break your leg skiing (or getting pissed and falling down) – we’ll all chip in and sort it out for you – paying you while you’re off work too.
      * Shithead parent? No worries, we’ll all take care of your kids for you.
      
      Well now we’re doing the same for the very few people in society that carry the highest risk (mainly through self-inflicted lifestyle choices). Don’t worry, we’ll ALL lock down. We’ll ALL wear masks. We’ll ALL get vaccinated. We’ll ALL go into debt for a generation. All of this so that you can continue to be massively obese!
      
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      October 20, 2021 10:42am
      - Taieri
        
        All of this so that you can continue to be massively obese!
        —————-
        
        Stop picking on the obese.
        
        Fat Bastard Taieri (fat, but healthy!)
        
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        October 20, 2021 11:32am
      - cmm
        
        Taieri, sorry mate, there is no such thing as fat but healthy.
        
        If you’ve just got a couple of love handles, maybe, but if you’re “Fat Pride” fat then forget it.
        * Your heart is under strain working harder.
        * Your breathing is problematic due to the fat inside your thorax interfering with your lungs.
        * You’re prone to circulatory problems like diabetes etc.
        * Your immune system is under strain.
        * Your Vitamin D control machinery is out of whack.
        
        Toss in a complication like asthma, flu, CV19 or whatever and you go from having something that you can shake off at home to needing a hospital, ICU or death.
        
        I could sugar coat that for you but it wouldn’t be helpful.
        
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/well-good/124628733/meet-the-kiwi-women-embracing-their-bodies-and-advocating-for-liberation
        
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        October 20, 2021 3:43pm
      - Taieri
        
        Clicked on “report” by mistake. Sorry.
        
        The blossoms in the Stuff article are not fat. They are something else. I’m definitely not in this category:)
        
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        October 20, 2021 4:50pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Ahem, cmm, the reference to Elephants, in this context, is somewhat insensitive. Please report for correction.
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:50am
    - cmm
      
      It must have been a Freudian slit [slip].
      
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      October 20, 2021 3:45pm
- rjay
  
  He would do better if he knew anything about DHBs. For example Tauranga is not a DHB.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:02am
I remember when

How is Labour going four years in asks David.
He then produces a graph that ignores the areas they have been working hardest in.
No mention of self gender selection, a subject that is most important to an nth percentage of the population.
Or their sterling work on ‘hate speech’ and the work they have put into clearly defining what it is.
Then there is the solving of the rising ‘three waters’ costs, which we can now all rest assured will be better managed and cost effective.
The rapid increase in the use of the Maori language, especially in mainstream media, is a major overlook.
It is also only a matter of time before Maori start reaching a greater age, have massive health benefits and represent a smaller percentage of the prison population.
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October 20, 2021 8:36am
Andrei

We have entered the Twilight Zone

This has to be a joke

https://youtu.be/psZiJhwAVO4
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October 20, 2021 8:42am
- ClanMcleod
  
  I choked on my cornflakes. The Russians must be trembling.
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:36am
Kiwi Investor

From my perspective, the only reason Auckland is still in Lockdown is because of a lack of investment into ICU capability.

I wish more people understood this, this has occurred because of Government incompetence. We knew this 18 months ago. Surely the kindest thing to do, to avoid a high death rate, was to invest more into ICU capability last year? Make that a number one priority. Add this to the list of government failures.

The 90% vaccination rate is a diversion, it was a target set by the NZ Herald, this is how government policy is set now, by the local newspaper.

Other countries have greater freedoms and lower vaccination rates than New Zealand, it just does not make sense. They also have higher ICU capabilities.

People in Auckland are angry, and turning against the government, it is real, there is considerable damage being done on mental health, general health, and financial carnage.

I don’t understand how we can give money to poor countries at the time of a national health crisis and yet not investing more into the very services that could make New Zealand a better place. Priorities. Yet collectively the country doesn’t even blink at this, there is not the right mind set, and this comes from the top.
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October 20, 2021 8:44am
- Ehlana
  
  An emphasis on ramping up ICU capacity would make sense. So would targeting improved health care at the people who need it most – who are also the ones likely to suffer most from Covid. Imagine if 18 months had been invested into improving nutrition, fitness, access to primary care and ensuring workers can afford to take time off when they’re sick instead of spreading their bugs.
  
  We could have used all those sportspeople unable to entertain us with their playing to push more movement in the community. Les Mills could put classes on line so why not “training” with the Warriors or the All Blacks? Or for that matter, kapa haka in the living room, lead by our top local performers? And tasty tucker with local ingredients and recipes from our diverse cultures?
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:01am
[email protected]

Tony Wall in his Stuff article tries to destroy the Coromandel Mayor Sandra Goudie for standing up for her right not to get vaccinated at the moment.

” ‘Tell the mayor to get vaccinated’: Sandra Goudie won’t take the Pfizer vaccine, and won’t say why”.

She says “I’m not going to be a leader on this issue for all of the people, but certainly I’m taking a leadership role in representing a view … about the right to have the freedom to choose, about a fundamental right in the Bill of Rights.”

He then goes on to try to further discredit her by saying she is doing a poor job as Mayor.

I’m appalled at Mr. Wall’s personal attack on someone for standing up for their rights.
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October 20, 2021 8:48am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  The only purpose of Stuff is to make the Herald look good in comparison. It’s the most bigoted and brainless publisher in the country and was over-priced at $1.
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:14am
  - Ehlana
    
    Oh, is that what it’s for.
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:02am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Who would take any vaccine that the manufacturers will not accept any liability for? All money, no care.
  
  What govt would purchase on those terms? Why would people like Fauci promote such a product?
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:12am
  - mawm
    
    Because of the opportunity to increase one’s authoritarianism and the ability to make money.
    
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    October 20, 2021 5:45pm
- Paulus
  
  Only because Sandra was a National MP and well like in her Constituency and as a good Mayor.
  What do you expect from Wall.
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:15pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Delta plus (one of the mutant forms of the mutant Covid virus) is spreading in the UK – now making up 8% of England’s infections.

https://fortune.com/2021/10/18/delta-plus-covid-variant-uk-danger-gottlieb/
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October 20, 2021 8:51am
- Andrei
  
  Nothing daily booster shots wont be able to fix Maggie
  
  In the good old days before pointy heads could look at its genomic sequences and differentiate it from other viruses it was called the “common cold” and was a part of everyday life that people negotiated as they went about their daily business
  
  BTW I am a new variant of the Human species and so are you and so is everybody else
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:03am
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    I may be a new variant but I’ve got a couple of old mutations….
    
    My skin doesn’t produce much eumelanin…
    and my Palmar fascia has started contracting.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:51am
Tomtoddy

An observation. The breaking of the “rules” around Covid has taken off. People not wearing masks, not social distancing any more, attending gatherings, defying warnings, etc seems to have really escalated since the pink haired woman went on her beach meet.

Despite all the hypocrites rushing to defend her we all knew she flouted the system and if she could do it so brazenly why cant we? She has a lot to answer for.
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October 20, 2021 8:56am
- RoboRob
  
  I would love to blame the Pink haired one but I suspect its more a function of time. I imagine a large proportion of AK are ‘over’ the whole thing and itching to get back to some degree of normality.
  
  I suspect many on this site are older. Imagine / recall being 15-30. In this age group you constantly hang out with your friends and party frequently. I imagine even the most law abiding youth, after 10 weeks of lock down, would be at least catching up with a small group of friends by now.
  
  All those ‘experts’ like Baker that think Lvl 4 would be a good idea are ignoring reality. If Ak went to lvl 4 people would still be over it, if anything more people might just give up. In this I agree with Cindy
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:15am
  - cmm
    
    Yup, now that those that want to be vaccinated are vaccinated, likely people just want to get on with it.
    
    Most probably are not worrying about the ballooning debt, but they are sick of lockdown, sick of silly rules, sick of no traveling, sick of having their families stuck in Australia etc.
    
    The virus will become endemic. The sooner that happens the better.
    
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    October 20, 2021 10:02am
- Ehlana
  
  Tomtoddy, I don’t think it was too much about “the pink haired woman” (Suzie?). It was probably a combination of lock down fatigue, better weather and the fact that 2/3 of the eligible population are now double-jabbed. We were told vaccination was the key to getting out of lockdown, we’ve done it, so why are we still locked down?
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:48am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    Because none of Ardern’s agenda is about health. Absolutely nothing to do with health.
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:40am
UrbanNeocolonialist

The Oct 16th ‘vaxathon’ achieved essentially nothing. Official data (that has to be sent to WHO) with 7 day averaging shows it made no real difference to vax numbers:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/daily-covid-19-vaccination-doses?tab=chart&stackMode=absolute&time=earliest..latest&region=World&country=~NZL
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October 20, 2021 9:00am
- cmm
  
  “Official data (that has to be sent to WHO) ”
  
  Why do I get the following mental image…
  
  WHO beancounter guy picks up an envelope covered in glitter and unicorn stickers: “I see the data from New Zealand just arrived!”
  
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  October 20, 2021 4:00pm
lifesgood

3×3 storey houses on ANY section!! Are they mad. Auckland will be more of a shit hole than it already is. And for God’s sake Judith! What were you thinking?
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October 20, 2021 9:07am
- Ehlana
  
  The section will have to be big enough to fit 3 x 3 storey houses, lifesgood. Which I think rules out much of the already heavily subdivided central suburbs of Auckland.
  It will be interesting to see what rules there are around combining adjoining properties or the need to legally subdivide existing ones.
  It will also be interesting to see whether they have considered building envelopes. For example, will you be able to build at full height on a boundary with a legal road? Or can you agree with your neighbour to build to full height on your shared boundary? Those options might make better use of space than some existing setbacks, which create unusable thin strips of ground around buildings. Larger more compact spaces might be more attractive.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:54am
- Inandout
  
  life, as is happening now the house on the quarter acre property is bulldozed and three units are built. Parking for maybe two cars and the rest stay on the street. EVs quite impractical because the power outlet is limited to a couple of vehicles. I was told by a property developer that the old Freemans Bay villas were built on tiny sections and so close to the neighbour that you could speak freely from window to window. It seems we have come full circle.
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:06pm
- Paulus
  
  A small break in the RMA at last.
  Peter Dunn stuffed it some years ago remember.
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:17pm
  - Nickc2
    
    Lots of marriage break-ups and neighbour vs neighbour disputes. What could possibly go wrong? It’s all been done before in the UK and now they want to demolish close living environments. Can’t blame them.
    
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    October 20, 2021 2:20pm
- ecco
  
  I think I’d definitely vote Act based on the decision for National to agree on that bi-partisan law re the 3×3 storey house building. Fail to see where the upside is for National in doing that. Runs roughshod over existing property owners rights and just turns suburbs into concrete jungles.
  
  I guess that was the easy, low hanging fruit to try and solve the f**ked housing market in NZ, particularly Akl and Wlg.
  
  Will be interesting to see how other, more difficult housing supply/price drivers are handled by both Labour and National ie
  
  -immigration settings (will they just open the flood gates when Covid blows over thus negating any supply increases from the above idiot law?),
  -building supplies shortages,
  -building supplies price inflation,
  -lack of infrastructure like water supply in Auckland,
  -building labour costs and shortage of skilled people.
  
  Could we see some answers to these more tricky problems, Jacinda and Judith? That might take a bit of skill though, which I’m not sure you have. You’ve done the easy one, hasn’t come at any cost to the government, just to existing landowners, in many cases people who’ve worked hard for a decent house and bit of land. I’m pretty sure not many people are wanting their backyard shaded all day, wind tunnels, cars cluttering streets etc etc. Saw a developer on the AM show licking his chops over the new law. Understandably so.
  
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  October 20, 2021 2:08pm
emmess

When the left has lost the guys with face tattoos demographic, you know they are in trouble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr_F_XQrukM
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October 20, 2021 9:10am
BarryB

There are two things that have come out of this lockdown caper that I feel are important.
1. Product quality of things that come out of China have improved in recent times. This Covid virus is the longest lasting product that the Chinese have made in recent decades.
2. This is more serious. There has got to be something wrong with the way Maori are treated and they way some behave.
Its well established that if a teacher tells students that they are too dumb to achieve then there is one certainty – they wont achieve anything. But if the teachers tells them that they can pass the exam – them they almost always will.
For decades Maori have been told that they have been badly treated and that they are so badly damaged that they cant achieve. Theyve been told this by Maori leaders, non-Maori leaders, various people who think they are saying something intelligent but are actually being idiots, religious leaders, academics, etc,etc.
Is it any wonder that some Maori are almost too afraid to come out into the day light !
Its way past time to treat them as normal adults and to stop this deprecating behaviour. In other words “get off your lazy arse and go get vaccinated. Dont stop at the obesity shop (Mackers etc), dont stop anywhere – just go direct to the vaccination place”
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October 20, 2021 9:17am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Maori leaders need victims to own. The last thing they want is for them to become independently successful and put them out of a job.
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:43am
- KevO'Brien
  
  Maori put themselves down too. If your family doesn’t have ranking status, like Mahuta, you’re a nobody and it’s considered very bad manners to be seen to be outshining your betters. Young people suicide because of their lack of hope.
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:18am
Maggie Pie

Anyone else catch Hosking this morning telling Chippy ….. “Peeni Henare was useless”

Earlier in his show, The Hosk gave a summary of Peeni’s speech from The-Podium-of-Truth in relation to Maori vaxx issues. At one stage, Mike even broke into a faux “Shot Bro” accent.
Honestly, we both just cracked up. LOL!!

My partner is STILL getting round the house sounding like a Mongy. 😀
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October 20, 2021 9:18am
- Nickc2
  
  Yes, I heard it. I also watched Peeni Henare’s speech from the POT yesterday. He was pathetic.
  That aside, what the MSM is not factoring is that Maoridom was never a Nation as such. They were and still are to some extent a bunch of warring tribes and in this instance, Peeni Henare’s speech probably only had any relevance to his own tribe.
  
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  October 20, 2021 9:31am
  - Paulus
    
    The 16% of the population has an appearance of being the largest ethnic majority in the Country now, and don’t you forget it.
    
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    October 20, 2021 1:18pm
    - Nickc2
      
      That’s a fantastic appearance then considering there are no true Maori’s in NZ.
      
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      October 20, 2021 2:31pm
    - Jack5
      
      Paulus if Maori make up 16% of the country’s population, but at the last census, in 2018, 70.2 per cent of the population was White, or European (there are non-European Whites, such as most Iranians, Lebanese).
      
      If you split the White population into European ethnicities, those of English and Scottish descent would outnumber those of Maori descent, and those of Irish descent would be about the same as those of Maori descent.
      
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      October 20, 2021 8:09pm
Yvette

The statistics released each day on the Health website [1] does allow people to draw some conclusions – like yesterday’s “horrendous, whooping spike” of 87 cases in Auckland (from presumably 12,688 Auckland tests), compared to the day before (57 cases from 7,490 Auckland tests) is per thousand tests actually 6.856 cases, compared to 24 hours earlier: 7.61 cases per 1000 tests.

But Dr Ayesha Verrall, of her “gold standard” tests turnaround, says “It has not been less than 80 percent for some time”, but the Minister is ill-informed and “Over the past week it dropped to 73 percent, meaning of the 152,763 tests taken last week, 41,246 came back late [2],” which tends to somewhat screw the above conclusion.

However, does it matter at all?
It does require vigilance as to what other lies are being sold to us – but this seeming new crisis may tip extra numbers to get vaccinated, so why even consider exposing what one may believe to be a truth, when an untruth actually contributes to a greater truth: that to “save” people from serious illness and perhaps death, they need to be vaccinated.

How do you describe a virus without attributing human attributes? Like, “tricky”.
It has no brain, but like every other organism in the universe, it has somehow a tendency to multiply.
Leaving us potential (and likely inevitable) hosts in a fight or flight mode, where there is no flight (where else can you fly to, that is not already covid infected)
So leaving us (with our tend to multiply) only the option to fight, and the only means at the moment to do that, is to get vaccinated.

El cuidado es la protecciōn de las generaciones futuras
Care is protecting a way of life for generations – George Clooney,
What else?

[1] https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-news-and-media-updates
[2] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2021/10/coronavirus-ministry-of-health-slips-below-gold-standard-for-covid-test-result-turnaround.html
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October 20, 2021 9:30am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The numbers per 1000 are not statistically different.
  Are we really reporting a load of false positives?
  
  When the WHO says the PCR test is not satisfactory for determining whether someone has COVID or not why are they ignored?
  
  Is NZ chasing its tail? over false data. It takes an expert to organise that.
  How can any lock down be justified on the basis of defective tests?
  
  Doesn’t the govt have a responsibility to see that NZ Inc. actually works?
  If they haven’t got the nous to run the country get others who can, pronto.
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:37am
- cmm
  
  All the science left the room a long time ago.
  
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  October 20, 2021 4:06pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Why do we tolerate that?
    
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    October 20, 2021 6:18pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      You will get another chance to vote in two years.
      
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      October 20, 2021 7:00pm
surfing

The thing that strikes me about that north shore ‘influencer’ party, is the ineffectiveness of Auckland noise control.

The party went until 4am (if media is to be trusted and I don’t but this is all I have). Neighbours said it was noisy, so presumably noise control was called.

So noise control couldn’t shut it down, why not?

It does reflect our experience with noise control in Tauranga. They maybe close down 1 out of 3 noisy parties in our experience. Councils allow intensification but don’t police the negative consequences.
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October 20, 2021 9:38am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Fake News? 22 min.
4 Nordic Countries Suspend Moderna Use over Heart Inflammation Worries, FDA Responds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5AVtLKfReY
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October 20, 2021 9:45am
- oldfella
  
  Steve), my son in Queensland had his first vaxx yesterday. Over there they can choose from Pfizer, AstraZ, or Moderna (he chose the latter).
  BTW, isn’t Moderna being picked as a possible booster jab for us next year?
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:17am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    We will have the cheapest shit forced upon us
    
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    October 20, 2021 1:23pm
    - cmm
      
      Whatever Spain is dumping.
      
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      October 20, 2021 4:07pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Not fake news. I think Sweden (and Norway?) had already banned Moderna’s ‘Spikevax’ for under 30’s. The ban is now more general.
  
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  October 20, 2021 4:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Planeloads of illegal immigrants are being flown into Westchester Airport (“Harpoon”) in the middle of the night by the Biden Admin.
https://thepoliticalinsider.com/report-biden-administration-secretly-flying-illegal-immigrants-to-ny-in-dead-of-night/?
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October 20, 2021 9:52am
- Fletch
  
  The Democrats seemed determined to destroy America. Tear it all down.
  
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  October 20, 2021 10:41am
  - Nickc2
    
    Just like our Labour Party, trash the joint then move on!
    
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    October 20, 2021 2:12pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      They have done it before, 5 times. We are now in the 6th, and the wanks will still vote for them. FREE SHIT THAT YOU NEVER GET
      
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      October 20, 2021 3:49pm
I remember when

What are the consequences of mandating compulsory vaccination for public health staff and teachers.
The first and obvious problem, is that they are both areas where a relatively small loss of staff numbers (midwives being a prime example) would cause major problems.
The second is the resulting cost of terminating their employment.
Holiday pay, retirement leave, hiring costs, short-term staff shortages. Teaching – day to day relievers (already difficult in some places).
Add in the possibility of legal, employment dispute actions and reaction of remaining staff members.
Who would want to be the first to dip their toe into the quagmire.
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October 20, 2021 9:58am
Flossie

Was anybody else concerned yesterday during the Truth from the Podium session, that one reporter questioned the Minister in Maori who, in turn, replied in that language. The exchange went back and forth several times. Even the sign language person seemed to give up.
I was always told it is extremely rude to carry on a discussion in another language that most others do not understand…akin to whispering behind your hand. I’m sure both Minister and reporter are totally fluent in English.
But then again, how many people bother to watch this waste of time broadcast? I was totally astounded at myself that yesterday I did !
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October 20, 2021 10:14am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Racism at it’s finest by the media
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:24pm
  - Jack5
    
    There’s room for Maori as well as English in NZ, but Maori have two separate TV channels and more than 20 tribal radio stations.
    
    Let the mainstream State outlets cater for the 98 per cent of the country that understands and speaks English, and Maori TV and Maori radio for the minority who want to communicate in Maori.
    
    But keep them separate.
    
    Maorification of English-language media follows a theme: what’s mine is mine, and what’s yours is half-mine.
    
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    October 20, 2021 4:23pm
Maggie Pie

My partner said to pass this on….
Thort there might be a few ‘business-minded’ people interested?
His broker txt ….. “the first domino has fallen china proprty developer sinic has just defaulted on $250m bond payment… markets brace for evergrande deadline this weekend”
ends.

(He’s such a worrywart. I’ll be glad when he goes back to work 🙁 )
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October 20, 2021 10:16am
- Maggie Pie
  
  And what about these numbers from ‘GLOBAL COAL TRACKER’
  
  China is building 95 Coal Power Stations
  India 28
  Indonesia 23
  Japan 7
  Vietnam 7
  Pakistan 5
  Bangladesh 4
  Korea 4
  Phillipines 3
  Poland 2
  
  Whose out of step here? We’re closing all ours.
  
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  October 20, 2021 11:22am
  - rangitoto
    
    I’m thinking of installing a portable nuclear power plant.
    
    https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2021/6/28/portable-nuclear-reactor-program-sparks-controversy
    
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    October 20, 2021 11:28am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Ah tea rower is
    
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    October 20, 2021 12:02pm
Yvette

In Kawerau one thing impedes the effort to vaccinate Māori: New Zealand’s history

Māori, including Māori in Kawerau, maintain good reasons for distrusting the Crown and its successive governments. These are, after all, the same governments who broke their promises to the world war generations and the Māori battalions. These are the same governments who broke their promises to the local hapū, throwing thousands out of work for reasons of national policy. These are, of course, the same governments responsible for consistent Treaty of Waitangi breaches over the same decades too. With these histories in mind, Māori in Kawerau are probably rather sensible to interrogate the vaccine message.

This is hardly an excuse for wretched anti-vaxxers, whose idiocy endangers everyone. Every Māori who can get vaccinated should get vaccinated. Instead this is a challenge to the government. There are forces beyond ethnicity and access that are impeding the vaccine effort. History is. And to overcome that requires resourcing communities to deliver their own vaccination programs. In closed-off places like Kawerau or Murupara, only people the locals trust will be able to get the job done. [1]

However the threat of serious illness or death, particularly endangering the “way of life for generations” of Maori,
comes from beyond New Zealand’s borders.
And the vaccination, the only current means to thwart the virus,
also comes from beyond New Zealand’s borders.

Vaccinate – or not – can be an basic decision, devoid of the Treaty, “Crown”, Government, or history (whatever way you interpret it), charter schools or social statistics.

A prominent Viennese psychiatrist before the war, Viktor Frankl was uniquely able to observe the way that both he and others in Auschwitz coped (or didn’t) with the experience. He noticed that it was the men who comforted others and who gave away their last piece of bread who survived the longest – and who offered proof that everything can be taken away from us except the ability to choose our attitude in any given set of circumstances.
“Man does not simply exist but always decides what his existence will be, what he will become the next moment. By the same token, every human being has the freedom to change at any instant.”

Is covid as serious as concentration camps? 4,925,136 people have died so far [3] and a few more by now.
Viktor Frankl talks of “our attitude in any given set of circumstances” – a thought process.
Maori (and anyone else yet to decide) still have the opportunity to actually act.

Ardern’s Government may change tact on “dealing” with covid, and it spread.
But covid itself, brainless as it is, may pre-empt any Government move.

Of course it is acknowledged some people can not have the vaccination, but they few in number.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/oct/20/in-kawerau-one-thing-impedes-the-effort-to-vaccinate-maori-new-zealands-history
[2] Viktor E. Frankl, “Man’s Search for Meaning”
[3] Worldmeter
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October 20, 2021 10:21am
Stu2

Lets assume the huge efforts to lift maori vaccination rates work. And the maori persuaded to have dose one get dose two.

What happens in 6 months time when we decide to use boosters widely. Is there going to be the energy to mount another special effort?
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October 20, 2021 11:07am
Yvette

Tamaki, picnic in the park
… On Tuesday morning, the Tamakis claimed they had been told Brian was in breach of his bail conditions as he had interacted with others at the protest, which they deny.

… Brian was at the Domain on Saturday, but claims to have stayed with his family away from other attendees. He said he did not organise the rally, but did speak at the event. [1]

One condition was that Tamaki and co-defendant Paul Craig Thompson not “organise or attend any protests in breach of any Covid-19 level requirement”, while another was that they not “use the internet for the purpose of organising, attending or encouraging non-compliance with the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act 2020”. [2]

Brian Tamaki used social media (so the Internet) to say he would be picnicing at the same venue and same time as the second protest rally, so using the internet to publicise his intension to attend.
And to “speak at the event” must be evidence of attending as well as participating.
If the Police do not act on this, are they not policing? And why?

[1] https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/new-zealand/2021/10/destiny-church-leader-brian-tamaki-returns-to-auckland-police-station-for-second-round.html
[2] https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/news/crime/covid-19-delta-outbreak-brian-tamaki-makes-first-court-appearance/
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October 20, 2021 11:23am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The woke Police will do nothing, otherwise they will open up the Labour pamphlet can of worms. Now if they hit Tamaki and not Labour that would make them hypocrites, and we can’t have Labour’s image tarnished like that
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:30pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    Labour and Police both have tarnished images: Ihumatao.
    
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    October 20, 2021 4:08pm
- Fletch
  
  Just looked up the Covid-19 Public Health Response Act 2020, and it is interesting that it only passed by 6 votes (a margin of 63 to 57 votes) with many worrying about whether our rights were being overridden.
  
  The Act empowers the Minister of Health to make “section 11” orders, which are based on sections 70 and 92L of the Health Act 1956. Section 20 of the Act gives enforcement officers including the Director General of Health, medical officers, Police officers, and any person authorised by the Director General to enter any land, building, craft, vehicle, place, or thing without a warrant if they have “reasonable grounds” to believe that a person is failing to comply with any aspect of a section 11 order. Enforcement officers also have the power to shut down businesses or undertakings that are operating in violation of section 11 orders. Sections 26 and 26 also provide criminal penalties including fines and imprisonment terms not exceeding six months for those caught violating “section 11” orders.
  
  On 12 May 2020, Attorney General David Parker introduced the COVID-19 Public Health Response Act to provide the legal framework for the Government’s efforts to combat COVID-19 and to replace the country’s state of emergency. The bill passed its first two readings on 12 May and passed its third reading on 13 May by a margin of 63 to 57 votes. The COVID-19 Public Health Response Act was supported by the Labour-led coalition government (including the allied New Zealand First and Green parties) but was opposed by the opposition National Party. National Member of Parliament Gerry Brownlee claimed that the bill placed too much power in the hands of the Prime Minister without clarifying what advice she needed to make decisions. The ACT party’s sole Member of Parliament David Seymour voted in favour of the bill during its first two readings but opposed it during its third reading because he believed that it did not “balance the rights, freedoms and overall welfare of New Zealanders with the Government’s effort to control COVID-19.”[4][5]
  
  The COVID-19 Public Health Response Act was criticised by Chief Human Rights Commissioner Paul Hunt, who described the lack of scrutiny and rushed process as “a great failure of our democratic process”. Hunt also criticised the lack of provision within the legislation to ensure that those making decisions and implementing the new law would abide by national and international human rights as well as the Treaty of Waitangi.[4] Opposition parties and civil liberties groups also expressed concerned that the bill empowered Police to enter premises without a warrant. In response to criticism, Parker claimed that the bill limited police search powers in comparison to the Health Act 1956 and the national state of emergency
  
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_Public_Health_Response_Act_2020
  
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  October 20, 2021 4:13pm
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_kBNRK7HxA

Why China cannot abandon communism.

President Xi Jinping pledged to redistribute wealth while turning up the heat on China’s upscale citizens and businesses. So, what keeps Chinese communism going? [13:42]
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October 20, 2021 11:24am
curry4me

https://www.bitchute.com/video/qluunijz7D4/

Minor Problems for Dems.

With Biden’s presidency sinking like the Titanic, the Democrats are beginning to abandon ship! In this video, we’re going to look at the increasing number of reports that show the Democrats are headed for a historic bloodbath in the 2022 midterms, we’re going to see how this disaster is being foreshadowed by the record number of DemoRATS that are beginning to flee the ship, and stick with me to the very end of this video when I’ll reveal precisely WHY the patriot majority in our nation is growing and growing by the day. [10:06]
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October 20, 2021 11:24am
- dcrane
  
  Let’s Go Brandon!
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qr_F_XQrukM
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:39pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Good doco on AJ now. ‘Democracy Maybe’
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October 20, 2021 11:35am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Interesting. One could ask ‘where is NZ heading?’ Media is controlled, Police are controlled, Health is controlled, Military is all but dead …..
  
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  October 20, 2021 12:00pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Was that the Democracy Maybe episode about Lebanon?
  
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  October 20, 2021 2:50pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Nah Mike. Hungary and Myanmar. It was good.
    Hungary went back to 2010, just one year after your Princess was there giving a speech about Socialist Youth – she was president of that world socialist movement then. 2009 Comrade
    
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    October 20, 2021 3:57pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Would you like a Youtube link? Have a lay down first.
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g9rsxFaq6Ig
      
      1 2
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      October 20, 2021 4:01pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      What conclusions did you draw from it? Where does NZ democracy sit on the scale from Myanmar (no democracy) to Hungary (fast eliminating democracy)?
      
      1 2
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      October 20, 2021 4:30pm
mandk

Just 15 females stand between extinction and survival of maui dolphins:
https://interactives.stuff.co.nz/2021/this-is-how-it-ends-extinction-documentary/oceans/

I think they mean dolphins that give birth.
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October 20, 2021 11:39am
- krazykiwi
  
  According to DoC: “A recent population estimate showed that there are only about 63 individuals over the age of 1 year remaining. There is 95% certainty that this number is between 57 and 75”
  
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  October 20, 2021 4:21pm
  - Alan Wilkinson
    
    Maui dolphins are just an iwi if that of Hectors dolphins. You need a dna test to tell them apart. They also have a huge range so counting them is a joke. Just another environmental vanity project.
    
    7 1
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    October 20, 2021 6:48pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I really don’t know why were are so fussy about marine mammals. Most of them have been hunted to extinction, and I’m pretty sure we can finish the rest off without too much further trouble.
      
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      October 20, 2021 7:09pm
Maggie Pie

Remember i commented last week that I’d never seen ‘Angry Andy’ actually smile…..case in point:

https://twitter.com/jo_moir/status/1450513116052156421

Don’t think he’d last long playing ‘Mixed-Doubles’ at the club 😀
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October 20, 2021 11:49am
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Have a heart, Maggie. If he smiled his teeth would fall out.
  
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  October 20, 2021 12:29pm
Jack5

A break from Covid info …

A drone operator will try to rescue three trapped dogs in the volcano-hit region of the Canary Islands by capturing each of them in a net attached to a drone, then lifting them to safety.

The plan entails use of a 50kg drone, and relies on the dogs being able to be caught in a net.

If this works, surely bigger rescue drones will be developed.

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/drone-operator-will-try-rescue-dogs-spanish-volcano-2021-10-19/
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October 20, 2021 12:06pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Shit, drones could be used to arrest criminals so the Police don’t get all scared
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:34pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Or to take you to and from the liquor store when you are too feeble to make your own way there and back.
    
    5 9
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    October 20, 2021 2:38pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Typical snide remark. They deliver free you … [deleted], if you buy enough.
      Why are you such a child?
      
      7 3
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      October 20, 2021 4:04pm
      - RichardX
        
        Why are you so easily triggered?
        
        4 3
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        October 20, 2021 5:09pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        It’s a mystery to me, Richard. I think Steve is a nice guy, but just a bit irascible.
        
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        October 20, 2021 6:11pm
Flossie

Good grief. Bored silly here so switched on TV, which went straight on to One News. And there he was, prancing about with his jeans cuffs rolled up (does anybody normal do that??) and doing The John Campbell Show. Surely in their stable this company has some actual News Presenters who don’t actually want to BE the News.
Switched off now of course.
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October 20, 2021 12:15pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  There’s something about John Campbell and his sidekick Matty McClean that make my skin crawl.
  
  You ever experience that same feeling Floss?
  
  16 2
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  October 20, 2021 1:04pm
  - Flossie
    
    I know exactly what you mean Maggie. I do try to avoid them for this very reason. JC especially so.
    
    9 2
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    October 20, 2021 1:22pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Campbell is all class// Now if he had jeans and a tee, without the waistcoat and suit jacket it would be different. Maybe it’s not his fault, maybe his Mum dresses him?
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:37pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  I think he is stylishly well dressed.
  
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  October 20, 2021 2:45pm
  - Flossie
    
    Well you would. You seem to have a number of rather strange ideas.
    
    7 4
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    October 20, 2021 3:12pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      Yes…..with you there Floss.
      Can’t help but wonder if there’s a woman in milkey’s life?
      
      5 3
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      October 20, 2021 3:20pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        Sounds like he has a bit of a crush on JC
        How sweet
        
        4 3
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        October 20, 2021 4:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    You have rolled up jeans on your short pants? And a dress shirt, and suit vest and jacket?
    No loud socks though Mike, just no socks and zip booties
    
    5 3
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    October 20, 2021 4:07pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I suppose I could describe for you what I am wearing right now, but I’m not sure if that would be good for our relationship.
      
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      October 20, 2021 4:25pm
Littletramp

I posted at 9.55am -is there any reason it has not been moderated yet – now 12.25pm? Thx.
7 2
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October 20, 2021 12:26pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Was it something naughty?
  
  4 2
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  October 20, 2021 2:10pm
Sean OConnor

From the “sounds too radical to be true but is” files:
A white person is now officially worth half as much as a Maori in Nelson for voting.
6000 white people elect one councillor; 3000 Maori do the same.
Add in actual turnout rates and it’s more like 4:1.
Protest time.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/nelson-mail/126721640/councillors-opt-for-two-wards-plus-mori-ward-for-nelson
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October 20, 2021 12:34pm
- septic skeptic
  
  That’s a very watered down version of where this is heading. It will end up at 1/8th if it all goes to plan.
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:30pm
- Kiwi Dave
  
  Unfortunately article 12a of the NZ Bill of Rights requires equal suffrage only for the House of Representatives, and then there’s escape clause 19b: Measures taken in good faith for the purpose of assisting or advancing persons or groups of persons disadvantaged because of discrimination that is unlawful by virtue of Part 2 of the Human Rights Act 1993 do not constitute discrimination.
  
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  October 20, 2021 2:01pm
  - Jack5
    
    Kiwi Dave, Afrikaaners probably had a similar escape clause to justify apartheid.
    
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    October 20, 2021 4:28pm
    - mawm
      
      Yes they did – it was an Act of Parliament (Westminster Parliament) at the formation of the Union that disallowed Native Africans from voting.
      
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      October 20, 2021 6:00pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Yeah, the Boers really wanted Africans to vote, but what could they do – Edward VII had said no, and his wishes really had to be respected when the National part came to power in 1948, and even when South Africa became a republic in 1961.
        
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        October 20, 2021 6:10pm
  - Ehlana
    
    IN the context of local government voting, how are Maori currently “disadvantaged because of discrimination”? I thought they could enrol and vote the same as all other New Zealanders?
    
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    October 20, 2021 4:59pm
Maggie Pie

BOOM!

Conspiracy Theorists?

https://leohohmann.com/2021/08/27/boom-major-law-firm-confirms-fda-deceived-america-with-its-confusing-approval-of-pfizer-vax/

🙁
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October 20, 2021 12:56pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  I think (but not sure) there is a Janet Woodcock involved. Paid off muppet. She also approved fentanyl as a painkiller – go figure
  
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  October 20, 2021 1:41pm
I remember when

I hope we come out of Alert Levels before the start of Winter, when conditions can be expected to favour increasing case numbers and worsening outcomes.
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October 20, 2021 12:59pm
dave_c_

1:02pm update !
I had to giggle – They sound like ‘chicken little’, and that the world is ending.
Searching for ONE absconder must be somewhat like looking for an ant on the beach.
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October 20, 2021 1:03pm
I remember when

There has been a lot of comment about Bishop Brian in the news lately.
Much of it suggests he has not been very clever.
This may be so, but a least he was quick to recognise that Maori has become a religion.
He accordingly decided to start a church seeing that it would be his ‘Destiny.’
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October 20, 2021 1:09pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  There are at least five Maori syncretic versions of Christianity. Wikipedia has dozens of biographies of Maori religious leaders.
  Brian Tamaki is only unique in his extreme greed and venality.
  
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  October 20, 2021 2:34pm
- Liberal Cliche
  
  Brians not the one taking the kool aid bro.
  
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  October 20, 2021 3:48pm
Liberal Cliche

Seems the Emperors are seeking some new clothes.

Employs a tyrannical mandate no body asked for..

Flees.

‘Northern Territory Chief Minister Michael Gunner’s family flees home amid vaccine mandate anger’

https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/australia/northern-territory-chief-minister-michael-gunners-family-flees-home-amid-vaccine-mandate-anger/news-story/28967f3ad86c1707ca2f68ae18fa75bf
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October 20, 2021 1:50pm
Maggie Pie

Just watched Q5 in The House.
Does anyone know who that Green Party ignoramus is that insists on speaking Maori?
We had NO idea what the question was!
Nor the answer for that matter.
Thought it was supposed to be a ‘House of Representatives’, FGS.
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October 20, 2021 2:35pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Would you like a link to the translation, Maggie?
  
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  October 20, 2021 2:46pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  The Question was under the name of Dr Elizabeth Kerekere.. She’s a Gizzy gal and lives in Kaiti, down the road a bit..
  I don’t think she plays tennis.
  
  I think she was asking the Minister of Maori Health if he thought his Government was doing ENOUGH to boost Maori Vaccination rates, especially in rural areas……
  
  but when I put her te Reo into Google translate, it came out as was the Government doing TOO MUCH to boost the Maori vaccination rate.
  
  Tricky thing this language translation stuff.
  
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  October 20, 2021 2:55pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Ahaa…bet it was way over milkey’s head as well 😀
    
    7 2
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    October 20, 2021 3:08pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      He will sulk for a while now
      
      7 3
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      October 20, 2021 4:10pm
      - mikenmildagain
        
        Of course I won’t sulk, Steve. Too close to beer o’clock to be grumpy.
        
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        October 20, 2021 4:22pm
  - Libertarians are right
    
    She’s the one that got her Doctorate in Pre-Colonial Maori Lesbianism right?
    
    3 1
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    October 20, 2021 4:41pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      Not exactly…
      Her thesis encompassed the entire range of gender fluidity and sexual relationships in Pre-Colonial Maori Society.
      
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      October 20, 2021 7:22pm
alex Masterley

So senior students are returning to school next week.

The junior student is happy, the senior student is not.

He is currently penning a letter (well typing and email) to Minister Hipkins advising him of his extreme displeasure about the announcement.

And it now turns out the school the students attend was caught by surprise by the announcement.

The school is “…waiting for written confirmation from the Ministry of Education regarding many aspects of on-school operational matters, and will confirm to our school community how [the school] intends to manage both the return to school and online learning for our Year 9 and 10 students as soon as possible.”

Given the short notice and with the labour holiday weekend approaching I suspect that there will be a complete shambles on Tuesday.

Minister Hipkins has said it is safe for senior students to return to school. I hope for his sake that he is right.
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October 20, 2021 2:47pm
- Cinematic
  
  It is beyond normal notions of ‘safe’.
  
  This bug is of basically no consequence to the young. Confining those least at risk is utterly mad.
  
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  October 20, 2021 4:24pm
  - Surely Knott
    
    Sure but she can’t have it both ways. ”
    It is so SAFE teens can go back to school on Tuesday;
    But so DANGEROUS that it allows for the overturning of our human rights , emergency powers on a scale we have never experienced before, and NZers forced to take a provisional medicine or lose all rights to participate in society and be publicly shunned;
    It is so SAFE that we can host an unmasked, inside, congo-line , dancing singing , vaxathon;
    but so DANGEROUS in the same week Tamaki is in Court for holding an outdoor distanced picnic protest;
    It is so SAFE that we can send babies back to daycare;
    But so DANGEROUS….
    
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    October 20, 2021 5:54pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Remember when Ardern and Hipkins told us the MIQ system was good and fair?

But Ardern said protections were in place to give the MIQ booking system integrity.
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/covid-19-coronavirus-prime-minister-jacinda-ardern-says-miq-bookings-protected-from-being-gamed-by-bots/G4RYJZOJCXA6SYAT6T37PIPDLI/

Wonder what the Ombudsman will discover…

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126738575/covid19-ombudsman-investigating-miq-booking-system-after-hundreds-of-complaints
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October 20, 2021 3:01pm
- Ehlana
  
  It is “good and fair” in the same way as we went “hard and early”.
  
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  October 20, 2021 5:01pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Yes… just like open and transparent.
    
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    October 20, 2021 7:33pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Yes indeed Maggie,
  
  https://www.ombudsman.parliament.nz/resources/investigation-framework-administration-managed-isolation-allocation-system-ministry
  
  Waiting to find out myself.
  
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  October 21, 2021 7:45am
Alan Wilkinson

Coroner overlooks main cause of fatal crash: criminal stupidity:
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/speed-alcohol-cannabis-inexperience-and-lack-of-sleep-all-contributed-to-death-of-wellington-teen-who-crashed-stolen-car/LLDWTCVRQHXD3SZRY5HLNM4YS4/
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October 20, 2021 3:24pm
Maggie Pie

Just received news that Facebook are rebranding…
and will undergo a NAME CHANGE!

Could even happen by next week.
The new name is a closely guarded secret, but one of the girls from tennis was saying ‘HORIZON’ is likely to feature.

You heard it here first 😀
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October 20, 2021 4:00pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  The head prick will still be the head prick – cancelling and jailing.
  Have not been in FB jail for a while, is that because I must try harder?
  
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  October 20, 2021 4:14pm
Cinematic

So no young kids back at school. The complete opposite of Sweden. How many children in Sweden died?

This isn’t science. This is utter nonsense.

This will continue to place extreme stress on families and businesses in L3 areas. There is no reasonable basis for this absurd announcement.
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October 20, 2021 4:22pm
- septic skeptic
  
  But think of those hard working teachers. Don’t they deserve just a few more weeks away from the coalface?
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:16pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

General Debate is infested with leftie trolls today, many under new names. No big deal, you are losers
15 4
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October 20, 2021 4:26pm
Maggy Wassilieff

How many of us held out hope that Dr Ayesha Verrall might have been a breath fresh air in the Labour Cabinet?

Dear Reader, I confess that I thought she would be a good Minister.

But looks like she is just another obfuscation oracle:

Q.11 (today)
Brooke van Velden: Does she think it is acceptable that pregnant New Zealand women are being forced to take the Government to court to get the maternity care and support that they need?

Hon Dr AYESHA VERRALL: I am not aware of a proceeding for maternity care that is before the court. If the member is referring to a proceeding relating to the MIQ system, then that is a different matter that is before the courts at the moment.
https://www.parliament.nz/en/pb/hansard-debates/rhr/combined/HansDeb_20211020_20211020_20(from 4:48)

and background here:
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126736381/race-relations-commissioner-meng-foon-calls-on-pm-to-urgently-prioritise-pregnancy-for-miq-places
7 2
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October 20, 2021 4:32pm
- Maggie Pie
  
  Not the greatest pic of ‘Meng-the-Merciless’
  
  Looks more like Rodrigo Duterte from the Phillipines 🙁
  
  3 2
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  October 20, 2021 4:53pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    And they’re both good singers…
    (Meng’s Covid song)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_55cyV8kv1A
    
    (Roddy ‘s Moon River)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7s727FXri5c.
    
    spooky, eh?
    
    3 1
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    October 20, 2021 7:44pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      But have quite different views on human rights.
      
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      October 20, 2021 8:07pm
    - Maggie Pie
      
      WOW!!
      
      TBH Maggs, I’ve never believed in ESP.
      But now you’ve got me thinking.
      Like you say…that really is just soooo SPOOKY
      
      1 2
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      October 20, 2021 8:15pm
Liberal Cliche

Now you’ve made a marytr out of Tamaki via Soviet style show trials.

Congratulations now you’re creating extremists.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/covid-19-delta-outbreak-destiny-churchs-brian-tamaki-faces-fresh-charges-over-lockdown-protest/PFHET2E5ABPK5MWLQ3PP7TCERI/
9 3
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October 20, 2021 5:40pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  What, being prosecuted will make Tamaki more of an extremist?
  
  2 9
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  October 20, 2021 6:04pm
  - Liberal Cliche
    
    Read the room mike, watch his supporters on the video.
    
    6 3
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    October 20, 2021 6:15pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Cranks and cult leaders have followers. Who knew?
      
      2 7
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      October 20, 2021 7:01pm
  - dcrane
    
    More of a sympathetic character, Mike. I for one am feeling like a nice Saturday afternoon at the Domain, socially distanced of course.
    
    5 2
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    October 20, 2021 8:28pm
CAKE FACE1

Free Brian Tamaki!!!
13 4
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October 20, 2021 6:23pm
Maggie Pie

TRENDING…

I see where even Gyms are being encouraged to hire a Clinical Nurse on a low hourly rate… and have them administer jabs every 2 – 5 minutes @ $90 a pop!
What a fantastic financial incentive with absolutely no duty of care. Imagine how many people are cashing in on this opportunity to rob the taxpayers purse.

Just saying.
4 3
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October 20, 2021 7:42pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Why have you not set up your own vax clinic at the tennis club, if it’s so lucrative?
  
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  October 20, 2021 8:06pm
JB.49

Hope New Zealand
Wonder how long this one will stay up for?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyLhFhDVLug
2 4
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October 20, 2021 8:19pm
Benedict Yu

“Covid-19 restrictions will continue until all groups reach 90 per cent vaccination rates, Health Minister Andrew Little says.

The move to ensure no-one is left behind in the drive for vaccinations has been welcomed by community health leaders. “Aotearoa is in this together,” said Raewyn Bhana, site manager of Christchurch’s Whānau Ora Community Clinic.”

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/300436106/live-governments-announcement-on-new-covid19-plan

I thought we were all “one people” – so now we need to ensure that all “groups” get to 90 percent. I think that one “group” might be an issue here.

Well Mr Little – the Chinese and Taiwanese “group” have done our bit with just about every man, woman and eligible child vaccinated. Can we please have a reward?
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October 22, 2021 9:47am

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