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November 23, 2021 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 23 November 2021

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General Debate

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Andrei

As New Zealand continues its descent into Fascism it is good to see major media outlets reporting on things that really matter…

…Like young men being unhappy with their haircuts
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November 23, 2021 8:00am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Woossy Karen prick. All he had to do is say ‘stop’ No mirrors and eyes closed.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:26am
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Kind of an odd comment.
    Did you read the article?
    Sounds like she made a lot of odd comments about the style he wanted, and worked from the back, so the moment he spotted she was cutting away close to his scalp it was too late to put it back. Hair doesn’t work like that.
    
    I have worn hair in lengths varying from down to the small of my back through to Romper Stomper-short. If you spent a couple of years (or ten years) growing hair out you don’t want a hairdresser whacking it off say, despite your clear conversation, “Nah, you want a male’s hair cut”.
    I however wouldn’t have been silently fuming like this guy……
    That said, the only time I had a hairdresser cut my long hair was when I had it cut right away ahead of an Army basic training.
    
    And in the context of ‘Is this news?’ – Just as equally: Is this really the standout story for the first post on Kiwiblog?
    
    There are always media stories picking up people’s gripes around good and services (valid or not), or public interest fluff. Don’t have to read them.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:18am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Does not take long to realise how much is being cut.
      But yeah, first post of the day it that?
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:26am
      - Paulus
        
        I am not aware of any Men’s Barbers who require an appointment.
        I have always (60+) years gone on spec and will do so again.
        Never had a problem except the search fee required round my middle parting to find what needs cutting.
        
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        November 23, 2021 1:08pm
      - Batman
        
        Plenty of them require appointments, especially in the cities.
        
        Mainly they’re for a more youthful client base and run a tighter ship with their schedules
        
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        November 23, 2021 1:15pm
    - Andrei
      
      The point being made in the post has nothing to do with the story, although at time of posting it was the lead article on Stuff
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:32am
- mawm
  
  We are but not as fast as Australia. The army in the Northern Territories is being used to forcibly moving covid positive and covid contacts into concentration camps.
  
  That didn’t take long to change from conspiracy theory…..
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:33am
  - rouppe
    
    Links?
    
    Cause you could say the same thing about us when everyone went to Jet Park
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:25am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/australian-army-hauls-38-citizens-to-quarantine-facility-over-some-positive-covid-tests/
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:42am
      - rouppe
        
        That’s a long way from “forcibly moving people to concentration camps”. Very silly language.
        
        As I said before, the old practice of making infected people quarantine at Jet Park was pretty much the same thing. I’d not call that a “concentration camp”
        
        Notwithstanding I am generally pro choice when it comes to covid vaccines and am vaccinated myself. Assuming it’s still having any effect 6 months on…
        
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        November 23, 2021 12:49pm
      - cmm
        
        roupe: “The government of Australia’s Northern Territory has ordered the transfer of 38 Australians from a remote Aboriginal town to a quarantine facility.”
        
        The government ordered their transportation to mandatory quarantine facilities. ie. it was forced.
        
        It wasn’t just some nice army guys turning up and offering them a ride to somewhere they wanted to go.
        
        But is this really any different to our cops arresting people and taking them to MIQs?
        
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        November 23, 2021 4:34pm
- Spoff
  
  UK Column News makes a similar point. There is no media industry support for truth and integrity:
  https://www.ukcolumn.org/ukcolumn-news/uk-column-news-22nd-november-2021
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:35am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    One of the very best sources of news and analysis out there.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:43am
    - Fight4NZ
      
      LOL
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:45pm
- Surely Knott
  
  NZ continues it’s descent into fascism while Oz prime minister rules out vaccine mandates and says its time to give Aussies back their freedom. What’s stopping NZers moving to OZ. Is MIQ our Berlin wall?
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:26am
- dime
  
  LMAO love the greenstone.
  
  Imagine being that weak? my god.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:03am
- Bob
  
  Yes! unhappy short haircuts could lead to a pandemic of unhappy young men.
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:10am
Benedict Yu

So I have been wondering how the vaccine passes are going to be “scanned” when you enter a venue.

As of yesterday I could find no announcements from the government about this. Then last night I heard an Auckland hairdresser on the radio saying she had been given early access to the “verifying app”. First I had heard of it. And sure enough here is where it will be available for download….

https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-vaccines/my-covid-record-proof-vaccination-status/nz-pass-verifier

This could be interesting. The owner of a cafe might be happy to download it and use it. But she can’t be there all the time.

So she will need to train her staff on how to use it. She will also need to train her staff in how to deal with customers who are refused entry. For some people who are employed as waiters, that may be something they are unable or unwilling to take on.

What happens if a staff member cannot or will not enforce the vaccine passes at the door? And I don’t blame them. They were employed to make coffee and now they are enforcers. That is why Jacinda’s “alcohol ID check” comparison is absurd. Employees who check for 17 year old try ons take on the job knowing that such checking is part of the job and they receive training.

Another basic problem: What if an employee does not own a smart phone to use as a scanner? Or if they simply refuse to download the scanning app, and to use their personal phone for such a work task? Literally, all cafe workers who are required to scan the passes will need to use a suitably equipped smart phone to do their job. They will be able to make an excellent case that the employer should supply them with such a phone.

And we have not even seen the laws that will enable the traffic light system. It is being passed under urgency next week.

This circus ?‍♂️ is going to be a piece of work.
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November 23, 2021 8:00am
- Raphael
  
  We’re faced with the same thing at Church. (we doing a two service approach, 1st service Vaccine checks, 2nd service will be limited numbers of unvaccinated/don’t care folk).
  We were planning on getting our teens vaccinated in the holidays (so if they got hit hard by the vaccine as some do, they wouldn’t miss school) and now we’re going to have to get it done earlier so that they will be able to do things in the holidays, like go to a cafe with us…..
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:10am
  - Andrei
    
    Any Church that restricts entry to people is can no longer be considered as Christian
    
    The Lord’s table is open to everybody and Jacinda Ardern cannot dictate otherwise
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:15am
    - Raphael
      
      which is why we’re going for the mixed approach, so we don’t have to turn away the high risk, immune compromised person and we don’t have to turn away the person who has chosen not to get vaccinated.
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:30am
      - Captain Mainwaring
        
        You won’t have to turn me away, I haven’t attended church for about 60 years.
        
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        November 23, 2021 8:33am
      - Paulus Gnome
        
        You will at some point Capt’n
        
        Not today perhaps and maybe not tomorrow either but, you will. I am sure the flowers will be magnificent, not that you will care at that point . . .
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:36am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        There’s always time Captain Mainwaring…
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:27am
    - backster
      
      Andrei…This the table you mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNjH8rEJjDc
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:50am
    - Ehlana
      
      Happily, the church is the people in it, not the building. And the people can gather in other places.
      
      Raphael’s church is taking a workable approach. There may be some people who feel they need to avoid being around unvaccinated people because of their jobs (e.g., health workers) while others may feel equally strongly about not scanning in. This approach gives them all opportunities.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:57am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      I am not a man of faith. I totally agree.
      Jaspinda is getting too big for her boots, the more people lets her, the more she will push. Out of line. Needs to be stopped.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:02am
    - Diogenes
      
      I am astounded that any church that purports to follow Jesus can turn anyone away. Christ physically embraced lepers, who were the corona equivalents of his day. As a follower, how can I do any less? Setting up separate services for the vaccinated and unvaccinated is an odious form of apartheid. If my church turns away someone who does not have a vaccine certificate, I will be walking away from it.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:49am
      - Mike
        
        People have been walking away from churches since St Paul turned a Jewish sect into a religion with universal claims. Jesus’s purported sayings can, amd have been, interpreted and reinterpreted to fit the convenience of people for nearly 2000 years. A specic new schismatic cult for anti-vaxxers fits in just fine with the Mormons, Destiny, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Gloriavale, etc, etc.
        It might even prove to be a lucrative venture, as so many cults have been.
        
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        November 23, 2021 12:55pm
    - curry4me
      
      Andrei: Absolutely right. Time to find a new one if your old one has drunk the koolaid.
      
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      November 23, 2021 1:11pm
  - emmess
    
    My teenage kids are not getting vaccinated, it is just not worth the risk for virtually no reward.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:28am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      I respect your decision. I’m just wondering how they are reacting to no cafes, concerts etc?
      
      The other thing that surprised me is that a 12 year old does not require parental consent to get the vaccine. It is ‘recommended’ but not compulsory if the vaccinator determines that the child is giving informed consent.
      
      https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/covid-19-vaccine-informed-consent-young-people-aged-12-15-years-policy-statement-16092021.pdf
      
      And 16 year olds are totally free to do what they like medically.
      
      This was tested a few weeks back in Christchurch. A mother did not want her 14 year old do get vaccinated. So the kid skips school because he hears there is a $20 voucher on offer to get vaccinated. Mother goes nuts. Gets told to sod off.
      
      https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126786924/covid19-14yearold-students-get-vaccinated-while-skipping-class-for-hot-chips
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:56am
      - emmess
        
        I came to that conclusion first but they did too seperately
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:03am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        BY it is much worse than you can imagine. Legally a child of any age can give “informed consent”. I am not joking.
        
        “Who can give informed consent?
        
        There is no particular age at which children or young people may give informed consent under the Code.
        The focus is instead on the competence of the child or young person to comprehend what they are agreeing to.”
        
        Add to that there is no age restriction for abortion or obtaining contraception.
        
        https://parents.education.govt.nz/assets/Documents/Special-Education/Informed-Consent-Guidelines.pdf
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:20am
    - Bobba Fret
      
      The young ones I know are only getting vaccinated so they can go to the summer festivals.
      
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      November 23, 2021 12:32pm
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Remember the vaccine passport is only valid for 6 months.
    
    Strangely from the date of issue not vaccination.
    
    So many people will be effectively unvaccinated with active passports.
    
    This will because the booster shots are now overdue, imagine being told the passport you had just applied for was already invalid.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:33am
    - Benedict Yu
      
      Yes and there has been no announcement about the conditions that will apply to renew your passport after 6 months. Will a booster be compulsory?
      
      I’m still in the “pro vaccine” camp. But my enthusiasm is waning. Last week I was thinking I would enthusiastically get the booster. Last night I was reading more about this young athlete in the USA who is heart damaged after being injected by some student nurse at Walmart. I’m kind of sitting on the fence now. 🙁
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:00am
      - rouppe
        
        I’m going to wait as long as possible which is March for me.
        
        Who knows what will change between now and then
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:28am
      - Ehlana
        
        What I’d like to know is, what about after I’ve had Covid?
        
        We’re currently vaccinating because not that many people have actually had Covid, but we’re all likely to get exposed to it sometime in the next several months. Should I be tested for exposure before getting any booster shots?
        
        That’s what we do for other things we vaccinate against, like TB. I twice tested as having been exposed to TB, though I have no knowledge of actually having had the illness, and so I was not vaccinated.
        
        If I’ve been exposed to Covid, should I have the booster? Is it a waste of time, or perhaps even contraindicated, as they say on the medicine pamphlets?
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:02am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Bad Cattitude noticing a trend in warnings we’ve never seen before. Satire.
        
        https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/kitten-corner-the-heart-of-the-matter/comments
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:43am
      - Scooter
        
        Stay on the fence, once you go vacc you don’t go back.
        
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        November 23, 2021 1:52pm
      - Clownworld
        
        BY application of vaccines i.e. aspiration may explain some adverse effects.
        
        If you get a booster make sure they know how to aspirate.
        
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        November 23, 2021 6:39pm
    - alloytoo
      
      I’m wondering if someone will go to the effort of setting up a fake validation given that the specification is freely available on the web.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:40am
  - Liberty
    
    The church has a history of running a leper colony so the unvac should be no problem.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leper_colony
    
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    November 23, 2021 12:02pm
  - Liberty
    
    Our draconian government is not very efficient. They Impose an app on the populous.
    To implement even more controls. Controls that are so full of holes. It will more than likely fail.
    If they look back in history. The Nazis”s were far more efficient They just issued a yellow star to anyone who didn’t fit their agenda.
    The downside for the Labour government is it would have made them look like a pack of arseholes. Then we knew that already.
    
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    November 23, 2021 12:58pm
- Andrei
  
  It is the implementation of the ultimate surveillance state where the Government controls everything you can say or do
  
  It is for our own good of course – it is to keep us all “safe™
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:13am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    2 groups like wearing face nappies.
    
    Criminals, to hide their identity.
    
    Their victims, the scared little sheeple afraid of their own Shadow.
    
    Makes it easy to identify the sheeple.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:28am
    - Melbury
      
      Three.
      Rational people who are not scared of the disease, but recognise the possibility that any of us may be infected without knowing it; and are happy to take a simple precaution to reduce the risk of transmission.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:09am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Except they don’t reduce the risk of transmission, the vast majority wear the wrong type and/or don’t wear them properly. It gives people a false sense of security. People fiddle with them, touch their face etc. All help to spread the virus even more.
        It’s aerosol based, the masks don’t stop it.
        The mask is tool to enforce compliance. You can’t comply your way out of tyranny.
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:50am
      - cmm
        
        Masks WOULD work well if the original lies they told us had been correct.
        
        One of the very first things we were told was that the CV19 virus only gets transfered in large droplets (ie. sneezing, coughing etc). Masks work very well for that by stopping droplets mainly on the way out rather than on the way in.
        
        Aerosols are quite another matter.
        
        A single aerosol can hold thousands to millions of virus particles. Aerosols do not get stopped by the sorts of mask most people wear.
        
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        November 23, 2021 4:46pm
    - Lance
      
      Sooooooooooooooo all surgeons are criminals?
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:21am
      - Ed Snack
        
        In what way ? By wearing masks in operating theatres ? They do that to reduce the chances of oral bacteria getting into open wounds. Note those two things that are NOT present for Covid, bacteria and open wounds.
        
        Apologies if I misinterpret your comment.
        
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        November 23, 2021 12:36pm
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Surgeons have a very clear and obvious reason for mask wearing, it has nothing to do with the spread of a virus or the robbing of a bank.
        The bank robber has a reason, to prevent identification. The person wearing a mask walking down the road, out in the open air, or worse still, driving alone is either totally clueless as to what to wear and where to wear it, or they are virtue signaling.
        It might have some small use in a confined space, but almost certainly not. It’s an aerosol. It escapes through and out the sides of most of the face coverings the general public wear.
        
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        November 23, 2021 12:53pm
- Antoine
  
  Gonna guess a lot of places will just not bother to make people scan – like QR codes now
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:13am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    That will depend on the fines for non compliance. In France there are heavy fines for the business and the patron. Compliance is high. IN NYC the find IIRC is $US 5,000.
    
    If there is no enforcement here of course nobody will comply.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:31am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      What’s the fine if you had your last shot 6 months ago and then received a new vaccine passport valid for 6 months and you tested positive at say 3 months into your passport.
      
      Is there a defense if you were fined and then tested negative, technically you are not a risk.
      
      Can you prosecute someone for not having covid?
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:41am
    - Inandout
      
      BY, speaking of NYC I think Rubin cited the case of his employee going into Bloomingdales up market store to buy a shirt. After half an hour of sorting through many styles he picked a $100 one. When he went to pay for it the assistant asked for proof of vaccine mandate. The buyer declined to give his personal details to the shop worker citing privacy. The outcome was his $100 purchase was refused. This is not how a business should operate and let’s hope that store suffers a sales downturn.
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:56am
    - Wayne Mapp
      
      Benedict,
      
      There will be no enforcement, certainly not by the police or the MOH. The current government does not really like “enforcing” laws. They just talk about how nice it would be if people followed the Health Orders. Obviously it is different with border enforcement when one or two roads/places can be policed.
      
      But for thousands of small businesses? They won’t really do any checking unless it is customer expectation. In my area some/most businesses are very vigilant and that is clearly the customer expectation. Other businesses, not so much. Clearly Air NZ will be rigorous, with their checks being obvious and transparent.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:44am
    - bronny1
      
      Fine set at $12000 today up from $300
      
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      November 23, 2021 1:23pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That’s when the Gestapo turn up, count the scans on the app, count the clients, ten prosecute.
    Welcome to New Venezuala
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:31am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      *then!
      ffs
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:39am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      Back door anyone?
      
      How about a good old fashioned 1930’s style speak easy.
      
      Maybe the local gang pad.
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:44am
      - peterwn
        
        Complete with funeral parlor frontage, organ playing and passphrase ‘grandma’s funeral pew number 3’. Some people have no respect for the dead.
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:11am
- John Pakes
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  You are however Benedict, missing the main point of the announcement: The hairdressers and their staff are jumping for joy and as enthusiastic as hell about opening up their salons again.
  Leave the concerns to them, they are just so willing to give it a crack and iron out the problems.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:16am
  - I remember when
    
    JP: I bet the British said that all the time as they cleaned up each day during the blitz.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:26am
  - kowtow
    
    Lovely isn’t it , the ‘gift” of freedom from the hand of your master .
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:28am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      After the initial rush business will slowly dry up.
      
      The drop in turnover will come directly off the bottom line then as fixed costs slowly increase, rent power etc
      
      Prices will have to go up.
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:51am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    You seem good at own goals.
    
    The hairdresser on the radio last night said she was very pleased to be able to open. However she said that she was anxious about the pass system. She was not planning on insisting her staff take on the monitoring function. She would do that herself which meant she would need to be there all the time.
    
    So which other parts of my comment “miss the point”?
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:34am
    - Mr_Blobby
      
      My unvaccinated barber is already booked in for my next haircut at home. Cash.
      
      Works for me, works for him.
      
      Don’t know why I didn’t think of it years ago.
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:48am
      - graham
        
        Mr_Blobby, I’ve been getting my hair cut by the same bloke for the past three years or so, at his house. He officially retired but still does occasional cuts at his house.
        
        Those people who confidently predict a cashless society within a few years apparently haven’t thought of situations like this …
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:24am
      - Batman
        
        There’s one appropriate reply to both those who are clamouring for a cashless society and also those saying it’ll be forced upon us all as part of a conspiracy for control:
        
        “Tell him he’s dreamin’!”
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:47am
      - alloytoo
        
        Make sure he dresses like a courier 😛
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:43am
      - crackle
        
        Had a nice fresh cut yesterday myself, getting some funny looks from some, others are wanting the guys number… poor guy has already lost his very new business over lockdown.
        
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        November 23, 2021 1:27pm
    - Fletch
      
      I cut my own hair for the first time last week. Had a look at some YouTube videos and settled on this one. Didn’t come out perfect but it was pretty generally good. No one could tell generally I reckon that I’d done it myself. I think I’ll only get better over time.
      
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaFfFy8jPtY
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:11am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        I’ve been doing mine for 15 years. A pair of good quality clippers and a number 2 comb all over. Wife tidies up the stragglers. It’s neat, tidy and very comfy in the summer. No comb needed!
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:53am
  - Rich Prick
    
    You make hair dressers sound like North Koreans being granted an extra bowl of rice by Kim. Are you a parody of some sort?
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:46am
  - hmmokrightitis
    
    Interesting, because I was speaking to my hairdresser the other day as she cut what remains of my hair. She works in a chain (Vivo) that operates across NZ.
    
    There was internal discussion about requiring proof, and their marketing department even said it would be a good thing to do. But so much push back from their staff, they have abandoned the idea. Be interesting to see what happens once the much fabled traffic light system comes in to play.
    
    And for cafes where Im a well known regular, will they actually even bother?
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:36am
- westernScientest
  
  Another thing to ponder on this:
  
  If an employer is required to do everything reasonable to keep its employees safe, to the point where now a lot of non-hospo companies are now making vaccines mandatory due to their fear to the H&S act, at what point does the company need to employ a security guard on every door to protect the staff from abuse? Or could a company argue:
  Our risk assessment shows if we check vax passes it puts our staff at higher risk of retaliation than the risk is of not checking them and our staff having an increased chance of catching covid at work.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:20am
  - [email protected]
    
    How will an employee who catches Covid19 be able to prove that they caught it at work?
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:34am
    - westernScientest
      
      They wouldn’t need to, its the risk assessment the business needs to do to astatine the likelihood of them getting sick at work and the resulting impact on the employee from that. Proof infection occurred at work would only be required if an employee did get covid, then went to worksafe and told them it was because of business practices.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:38am
    - Clownworld
      
      If you work at a supermarket , apparently according to the podium of soul truth there is 0% cases of catching the virus? And food stores.
      So no need for any vaccines for staff at supermarkets.
      
      So no mandate there…yet?
      
      The science will no doubt change…
      
      Funnily enough the most vigilant nazis experienced with a manager and security barking at people were at The Wokehouse. The fear and control was beautiful to behold. (If you are loving dystopic fantasies).
      
      The cones and barriers resembled the Berlin wall or an airportor perhaps a militarised zone.
      One security guard outside, another inside and a manager literally shouting at people…”I saw you scan , but you I didn’t see scan…sign in NOW! ”
      
      The sad thing is I didn’t have the heart to tell this manager I knew them and secondly the person did scan in already they accused of this.
      
      In the meantime track and trace abandoned as govt can’t keep up except for extremely formal close contacts.( casual contacts thing of the past)
      
      Clownworld!
      
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      November 23, 2021 7:09pm
  - ClanMcleod
    
    The main thing people need to remember when their anger rises and nerves are frayed, this is ALL the responsibility of comrade Ardern. SHE is the problem. Not the person on the door, not the customer. Save your ire for her and her band of “experts”.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:41am
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    I certainly won’t be shy expressing my disappointment.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:54am
    - Ehlana
      
      Really, Mr_Blobby, you’d take out your anger on some staff member?
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:08am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Not where anyone wants to go, but at some point befehl ist befehl starts to wear thin. As said often, you can’t comply your way out of tyranny.
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:50am
      - Inandout
        
        Eh, some supermarket doormen appear to love the power invested in them by management. I always remember the old saying ‘the working man can kiss my arse, I’ve got a boss’s job at last’. In the MSM’s case it is ‘the readers can kiss my arse, Jacinda has paid my salary at last’.
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:17am
- Mr_Blobby
  
  Welcome to another day of lockdown tyranny.
  
  I will only be giving my business to establishments that are serious about providing good service and that does not include having to show papers at the door.
  
  A group of 5 or 6 of us go to a very good restaurant on a weekly basis, when permitted by Jack boot jacinda, we typically spend $80 to $90 a head, as I cover half the bill, and I won’t be welcome, we won’t be able to go.
  
  Probably do what we do now dinner party at home.
  
  I do feel for the affected business because they are good people who do a very good job. I wonder if they will survive an expected 10% drop in revenue.
  
  But being pro choice means I have had to make many financial sacrifices.
  
  Not good for the economy in general.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:23am
- KevO'Brien
  
  The staff can only be an agent of their employer. It is doubtful if they can use their personal phones on their employers behalf.
  As phone interconnect wirelessly how does the person whose phone is being scanned know that it is not being interfered with or other data downloaded.
  
  This doesn’t pass the legal sniff test in civil society.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:23am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Yes really great point. A hacker with a part time job as a waiter could have great fun. And don’t say that could not happen. It can.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:37am
    - Weetbix3ways
      
      From the information already available, the Verify app will not need an internet connection to work.
      As I see it, this means one of two things:
      1) The verification does nothing useful; or
      2) Every phone with the app will hold a database of vaccination records.
      
      If the former, then this is another example of government incompetence.
      If the latter, the hacker can do his work from his mother’s basement with ease.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:19am
    - Inandout
      
      BY, I recall when vehicle rego details were tightened because certain cretins were noting the plate numbers of women whose home addresses they wished to know. They just popped into the local post office and easily gained the information which then allowed them to visit said address. Now anyone with criminal intent can check a customer’s DOB, medical records and obviously their mobile number. Another ‘unintended consequence’?
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:27am
    - JackT99
      
      I see a lot of confusion about how this “passport” will work. So here it goes.
      The MOH has issued a number of private encryption keys and the corresponding public keys are downloaded and included with the Verify app (or in the website, it doesn’t matter). Those not sure what these keys are about can read on Wikipedia, look up “electronic signature” or “PGP”.
      Basically the QR code contains some data that may be plain text or encoded with the private key (done when you request the “pass” from MOH). It would be easy as Israelis found to encode your own data into a QR code and use that but that was noticed quickly and changed. All these systems work virtually the same in all countries. So verification app will read your QR code and decode it using its known public keys. If it decodes OK it will contains data to be displayed on the screen. Unfortunately you cannot create a new QR code that will decode using MOH public key without using the PRIVATE key(s) which is only available to MOH and app developers.
      So there is no “database” in the app, you don’t need Internet connection, because all that you need is that public key and means to sometimes update it (or them, could be more than one) from MOH – hence it needs connectivity “from time to time”.
      Hope this helps. We essentially need someone with the access to one of those private keys and the whole system is compromised.
      Also while some algorithms have not yet been cracked successfully, it is a matter of time before they will be, especially if they are used in this matter all over the world. Makes a very lucrative target for any hackers or “terrorists”. If someone cracks and starts distributing passes, that compromises many legitimate passes and imagine the exercise trying to replace them.
      
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      November 23, 2021 2:55pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Any private keys will soon be available on line–there’s more than one net.
        A govt as incompetent as this one should keep away from systems development or commissioning.
        
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        November 23, 2021 4:57pm
  - Benedict Yu
    
    It will be interesting to see if there is a legal challenge. I scan my phone at the airport kiosk because I trust Air New Zealand not to hack my phone. I don’t trust random waiters similarly.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:38am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      I can well see an app that loads your phone rather than merely reading it. To the right techs that’s easy peasy stuff.
      
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      November 23, 2021 4:59pm
  - Mr_Blobby
    
    Can you fine someone for not having covid?
    
    Can you fine someone for having covid and a vaccine passport?
    
    If I am speeding in a motor vehicle does it make a difference if I have a driver’s license, or am I still speeding.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:11am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Why an ‘app?’ Do these morons not have eyes? The Vax Cert has an expiry date ffs.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:28am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    Exactly. And it is just a QR code. If I send a screenshot to someone else it will scan just fine. The only reason to scan is if they asked for ID to prove that you were the owner of the vaccine pass. But Jacinda has said no to that.
    
    The absence of logical thinking makes my head hurt.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:41am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      Good thing you separated those two sentences. Jacinda and logic should never be in the same sentence
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:45am
    - Jack5
      
      The print-out version of the pass carries the warning that the holder might be asked also for picture proof of identity.
      
      The minority who don’t use smart phones will have to carry a printed pass. Presumably shopkeepers, restaurant staff and so on will have to try to scan the code from that – if it’s reproduced well enough.
      
      I remain smart-phone resistant. I’ve got a couple of cheap burners for text and emergency calls, and a stack of unused older smart phones the family dump on me as they upgrade and pressure me to “get with it”.
      
      Cheap “burners” are tiny and sit in a pocket comfortably. If you lose one they’re cheap.
      
      They suit those who want just access to the mobile phone system for text, tasks like bank identity verification, and for occasional necessary voice calls. You don’t get swamped with calls; you read news on a decent sized PC, laptop or tablet screen; and typing on a keyboard from a laptop or desktop machine is much easier.
      
      The downside is signing in with a pen at Covid check points, and the small phones are easily lost. With each loss, you need to change numbers at the bank and other spots that use cellphones for identity proof.
      
      If the detective novels are correct, burners are a tool of crooks and spies and worse, so maybe they create suspicion, too.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:05am
    - greybeard
      
      I have a PDF printed Vaccine Certificate from the MoH with details of my two vaccinations.
      Great.
      If I lend this to one of my friends can they go to a concert and associate with all and sundry ?
      Who will check that the certificate belongs to the holder?
      How would they check that ?
      What about all the zillions of copied/photoshopped/ manipulated documents ?
      What about the smartphones with certificates , phones which are then loaned to friends for a night?
      Or the smartphone certificates copied and sent to untold others to use?
      What a lot of rubbish: the only secure way of providing a Vaccine Certificate is to add the details to the NZ electronic Passports.
      No NZ Passport, no certificate.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:57am
  - pdm
    
    Well Steve mrspdm and I will not have any apps on our phone – we will each carry a hard copy vaccination certificate which we plan to have laminated to preserve it a bit.
    
    We have cell phones but seldom take them with us when we go out – if we are having a meal with friends we do not take them into the restaurant but leave them in our car or at home.
    
    How are hard copy certificates going to be treated?
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:54am
- mandk
  
  I suspect the vaccine passport system slowly collapse over time and businesses will eventually not bother to check. It will be too much trouble.
  
  When was the last time anyone checked if you had scanned or signed in when you went to a supermarket or café?
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:28am
  - Cinematic
    
    Depends on the supermarket. Countdown stores in Auckland have a tighter process than the airports. So I don’t shop there.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:58am
    - Lance
      
      Two Countdown supermarkets a few km/s apart, within my local area, are very different. One is at level 4+ (beyond ridiculous) while the other is more like level 2.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:27am
      - Observer of Life
        
        I sign in:
        Cindy 0800FYOU
        or
        Ashley 0800DICK
        Easy!!
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:34pm
    - septic skeptic
      
      Not all Countdown stores are Covid nazis. Northcote is fine, except sometimes you have to queue outside if it is busy.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:29am
    - dime
      
      really? i was pretend signing in for a while. now i walk through no worries at all
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:36am
      - Roberone
        
        I make a point of signing in under ridiculous names…Pablo Escobar, Ron Burgundy, Ezra Pound, WB Yeats, Jerome K Jerome….
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:31pm
  - Maggy Wassilieff
    
    Remember the blue-tooth checker that was going to record who we had walked past?
    
    https://www.health.govt.nz/our-work/diseases-and-conditions/covid-19-novel-coronavirus/covid-19-resources-and-tools/nz-covid-tracer-app/using-nz-covid-tracer-app/bluetooth-tracing
    
    That seemed to die a very rapid death.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:06am
    - pdm
      
      Far to effective for Jacinda and her acolytes to contemplate using.
      
      A bit like saliva testing for covid.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:37am
      - pdm
        
        Hey mod – went to edit this as I thought of a slight change.
        
        Was told I did not have authority to do so – why?
        
        I was well within the edit time frame.
        
        [A weird WordPress bug we suspect, nothing we or DPF have changed – Mod]
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:41am
      - ClanMcleod
        
        Not effective at all, either of them. The UK basically had a “pingdemic” with theirs. It was picking up people through walls as a “contact” even though it was impossible for them to have contracted anything from anyone.
        Same with the rapid anitgen test. I was offered one during a hospital visit. I asked how accurate it was. I was told “about 50%”. I said no thanks, I’m not doing a coin test to find out if I have covid.
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:59am
  - Rich Prick
    
    Even Cindy doesn’t know. As someone responsible for administering this shambles, which the [deleted] is it Cindy?
    
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300461414/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-says-vaccine-passes-dont-need-to-be-scanned-ministry-of-health-says-they-do
    
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    November 23, 2021 6:16pm
- amospicton
  
  Agreed BY and what’s going to happen in 6 months’ time when everyone’s certificate expires within a couple of weeks? Will everyone be able to get a booster in that narrow timeframe?
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:29am
  - oc35
    
    If you request another cert and ‘reprint’ the expiry date will be 6 months for the date of the new cert.
    
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    November 23, 2021 4:01pm
- cmm
  
  Bars, and any booze outlets, must have an assigned duty manager who is responsible for alcohol sales and enforcement of alcohol laws. This is governed by a legislative framework.
  
  If there is going to be a requirement for covid passport checks, then they will need a similar duty manager framework.
  
  Is this really going to be enforced? Most likely it will start off heavy handed and quickly slide into the “too hard” basket (like pinging people for driving with cell phones or riding bikes without helmets).
  
  If it is going to be enforced, then where are the cops coming from? They’re already down a bunch of unvaxxed cops. Adding policing of every venue in NZ is going to be damn hard.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:31am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I think you will find that thousands of people are being fined for using a cellphone while driving. I used to check my email while stopped at traffic lights. No more as my friend was recently busted for doing just that.
    
    Back to vaccine passes – they will be enforced if there are credible random police checks and very heavy fines, along the lines of France. If not, well they will not be enforced.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:45am
    - cmm
      
      Sure, people are occasionally fined for cellphone usage, but it is so blatantly happening all the time.
      Stop at any traffic light in Chch and you will likely see at least one driver checking their phone.
      
      How much are the fines? Has that even been decided yet? And who are they going to fine? Patrons or the duty manager?
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:00am
    - Cinematic
      
      A good friend lives in France. Suffice to say that the checking of passports is about as robust as you’d expect – not very.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:01am
    - Jim
      
      Ha sadly not here…..using your cell whilst driving seems to be obligatory in Manawatu, especially for those really safety conscious types that like to wear a face mask alone. Never seen Police here stopping people, it’s dangerous and sadly very much normalised.
      
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      November 24, 2021 6:36am
  - sooty
    
    Each area is down cops as they were sent to Ak for the border as well!
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:23am
- RiP NZ
  
  Ardern cited barbers as equivalent to hairdressers for purposes of the trial, benefits such as bookings and limited chair space.
  Barbers are walk ups – its a no appointment business model, so will they be expected to introduce a booking system ?
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:38am
  - alloytoo
    
    Ardern’s hairdresser “logic” was so imbedded in yesterdays presser that she issued questions so she could repeat herself endlessly.
    
    Barry’s questions however didn’t meet the narrative.
    
    The logic of hairdressers having fewer staff is nonsense. Many smaller cafes have about the same staff (or less) as hairdressers.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:55am
    - Batman
      
      Hang on, it is patently obvious that hairdresser salons have limits by their very nature and are spaced out.
      
      You arrive just before your appointment time, go to your station when ready, which is spaced at least a metre from the next one (unless you go to a hairdresser sweatshop somehow). The person cuts your hair and does whatever else (if you’re Winston Peters maybe a touch up dye job).
      
      You might get wheeled over to another station but again, distanced from other customers generally.
      
      They are nothing like a cafe where people come and go randomly as they please, and sit where they like and totally random groupings and distances.
      
      Hair salons are, by contrast, orderly and regimented.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:13am
      - alloytoo
        
        There’s nothing to stop cafe’s taking bookings, restaurants do that all the time.
        
        You allocate staff to specific tables (gosh if they don’t do that already) allocate patrons a table when you enter the premises.
        
        Of course in the hospitality venue you tend to stay at one table and the food is brought to you. In a hairdresser you may get moved between stations.
        
        Generally however I find the air quality in eateries is much better then in hairdressers.
        
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        November 23, 2021 1:59pm
  - Raphael
    
    I am surprised Ardern knew that a Barber was a thing
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:00am
- RoboRob
  
  I suspect there will be token usage of the app. Some businesses will scan some people. If they miss someone they will claim it was an accident.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:00am
- ecco
  
  I work in retail in a low socio area near some community housing on Saturdays where the shop is understaffed. I sure as hell ain’t going to approach some of the shoplifters/people who haven’t taken their pills/are off their face on something, and ask them to produce ID. They would probably pull out a knife or use their fists. These people are living hands to mouth. Failing that they wouldn’t have any qualms about grabbing your phone and running.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:07am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    It’s sad that some retail staff just let shoplifters steal whatever they want. Would you be more conscientious if your employer paid you enough to care for the business?
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:03am
    - Surely Knott
      
      It’s sad that we have a legal and police system that is more worried about vaccination and quarantine than criminals. And that businesses are being asked to police society.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:32am
    - Joely Doe
      
      How about the Police and Courts do their job and lock the scum up?
      Stealing food? We have three meals a day for you.
      Stealing clothing? We have a brand new jumpsuit for you.
      Stealing cars? We have a company wagon with safety bars.
      Can’t pay rent? We have a nice warm room with paid for electricity, heating and a room mate called Bubba.
      Just need to build more of them…
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:40am
    - ecco
      
      I’m working on a voluntary basis. BTW Clearly you have never worked in retail. You have no clue on how shoplifters operate.
      
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      November 23, 2021 7:10pm
    - ecco
      
      milky, your comments are out and out trolling.
      
      It’s very surprising that you are tolerated in this forum. Even though you comply with the rules, technically, your intent is totally malicious. People with bonafide and genuine comment are being warned, whilst you are able to put up multiple nasty comments every day with impunity. Have you even paused to think how unpleasant you are making this community with your continued attacks, always personalised.
      
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      November 23, 2021 7:15pm
- Flossie
  
  Absolutely ridiculous to compare it to an alcohol/age check. It reasonable to assume people’s age group by their look, but it won’t tell you anything about their vax status. PM just does not live in the real world.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:30am
- Ehlana
  
  I would think the best answer for a business would probably be to get a cheap smartphone, used only for the business & download the app onto it.
  
  That solves the problem of multiple employees trying to use their own phones, which I agree is problematic – not everyone has a phone, has space on their phone, has the necessary data available, or wants to use their phone/data for that purpose.
  
  As for dealing with difficult customers, I would put a large sign out front. “We are required to enforce these rules to operate. We will do so to protect our business and our employees jobs. If you don’t want to comply, we respect your choice. Please respect ours and do not enter. Our policy is call the Police if our staff are abused or assaulted. No exceptions.”
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:43am
  - calendar girl
    
    Ehlana, the clear wording of your suggested “large sign out front” is very well drafted.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:19pm
- Hollyfield
  
  Grant Robertson told Mike Hosking this morning that the “verification part of the app” will be rolled out “within the next 24 to 48 hours”. 48 hours brings us to Thursday morning. Hope the hairdressers can get it working in time for their first customer.
  https://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/on-air/mike-hosking-breakfast/audio/grant-robertson-deputy-prime-minister-on-countrys-level-status-based-on-jab-rate/
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:46am
  - In Vino Veritas
    
    Hollyfield, given this Governments inability roll anything out successfully, ever, if they do with the “verification part”, chances are very high it won’t work properly. Else it won’t be ready.
    
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    November 23, 2021 2:30pm
- lastmanstanding
  
  There will be wide spread disregard for the Covid app check. It will be like after the first lock down when most including me didnt bother to scan in. I noticed there was a decline in those scanning and it got greater the further we moved away from the lock down.
  And as for renewing the passport after 6 months forget it. It wont happen.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:10am
- Random T Person
  
  I am absolutely heartened by the significant number of local establishments in Whakatane which have a ‘vaxxed unvaxxed all welcome we do not discriminate’ signs on their windows. These businesses will get my custom. Those who discriminate will not.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:19am
- Jim
  
  Benedict, you rightly point out some of the practical challenges with applying such a blatantly discriminatory law. However, I think a business owners challenges extend much further.
  Despite Ardern’s hollow reassurances (drawing on weak parallels in checking age for alcohol sales) the traditional ‘walk in’ retail or service business is about to face a minefield of legal and social challenges. No doubt failure to comply (and keep employees and patrons safe) could find business owners with infringement notices and fines.
  The act of excluding the unvaccinated from a business premises is principally an ‘infection control’ measure to protect the vaccinated (yes some mental gymnastics is required there). As such it’s vital that the ‘passport check’ is performed SAFELY OUTSIDE the premises (where risk is minimised according to Ardern Science 101 when authorising the Auckland level 3 garden gathering rule – which specifically excluded indoors contact, even to go to the toilet!)
  Failure to do so in an ‘open air safe space’ will leave business owners liable to a whirlwind of angst from frightened and/or sanctimonious vaccinated patrons (or disgruntled vac mandated employees) if they find themselves in close proximity to the unclean unvaccinated patron (especially if an altercation takes place).
  As such Ardern is grossly misrepresenting this issue, and it will NOT be as simple as checking someone (who looks underage) meets the legal age to buy alcohol. Business owners will be required to check every patron (from age 12-100) before accessing their business premises.
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:22pm
Captain Mainwaring

Apologies for reposting from last night.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/127066431/air-new-zealand-cancels-1000-flights-between-aotearoa-and-australia

Lucky the flights were between Australia and some ficticious country. If NZ was the other country it would be a bit of a concern.
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November 23, 2021 8:01am
- Tony Stuart
  
  My wife’s cousin passed away from metastatic melanoma at the weekend, at the age of just 50. He and his wife and children live on the Gold Coast.
  
  His parents were unable to be with him, their daughter-in-law and their grandchildren during his final days, nor are they able to attend his funeral. That’s because they are unable to get an MIQ booking for their return trip.
  
  There is something majorly wrong with a system that keeps families apart, especially in circumstances such as these, which are by no means unique. It’s time to abandon MIQ.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:06am
  - tf78
    
    Tony, I am sorry to hear that, what a sad loss and so young too.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:09am
  - Antoine
    
    Down with MIQ
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:14am
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Cindy abandon MIQ? That would be abandoning control. Not likely anytime soon.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:14am
  - Raphael
    
    My deepest condolences Tony
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:16am
  - Tricati
    
    My sincere condolences Tony – The treatment of families has been just inhumane.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:28am
  - lastmanstanding
    
    This is the act of an authoritarian government and its officials. If the people are double vaxxed and return a negative test before departure and on arrival show me the scientific proof that they are a danger. They could self isolate on return. We know there are people WITH Covid who are self isolating at home yet people WITHOUT Covid are denied.
    
    This has nothing to do with health it has everything to do with Command and Control of the citizens.
    
    History will judge the Ardern Government harshly and also judge the citizens who didnt speak up and speak out against this facist regime.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:23am
  - Bob
    
    Would have been different had they been going to a Conservation Ideology Conference!
    
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    November 23, 2021 12:00pm
  - curry4me
    
    Tony Stuart: Please accept my deepest condolences.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:32pm
- Russ the Muss
  
  Maybe our airline should be renamed to Air Aotearoa?
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:09am
  - cmm
    
    Aotearoavlot.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:32am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Don’t encourage them
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:49am
  - pdm
    
    Shit Russ – don’t give them any ideas.
    
    They are roaring down that track already and you are only encouraging them!!
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:57am
  - Jack5
    
    On the printed version of the Covid vaccination pass: Aotearoa New Zealand.
    
    The official name is still New Zealand, but the Health Department Ardernists are using the pandemic to run their own name campaign.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:58am
    - KevO'Brien
      
      The document being in the name of a formally unrecognised country may be void.
      
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      November 23, 2021 5:17pm
- Ruawai
  
  This part is interesting from the MOH website. It says you don’t need the internet to operate the scanner but you will need the internet on a regular basis to verify, so from that I understand that you can scan with no internet but you can’t verify with no internet so no point at all if you have no internet coverage:
  “Scanning passes with no internet : Internet is needed for the initial app download and the first scan, but after that, the NZ Pass Verifier app can scan My Vaccine Pass without an internet connection but should be connected to the internet on a regular basis to ensure it can verify all valid My Vaccine Passes. “
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:13am
  - 70andstilllearning
    
    “……. but should be connected to the internet on a regular basis to ensure it can verify all valid My Vaccine Passes.”
    Was looking at that the other day – um – verify ( and update the surveillance database ) more like!
    Whats the point of verification after the fact otherwise?
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:28am
  - westernScientest
    
    The MoH has written that pretty badly, I suspect what it means is the app download (and updates) contains a database of all valid QR codes in the MoH database, so you need to connect to the internet regularly to download the database updates, i.e. remove the non valid passes and add new ones to the local one on the phone. So when a scan occurs, the phone looks though the database it holds to see if a code matches.
    
    Note: I dont know if this is how it works, but it seams like the easiest way to get one up and running in the space of a couple weeks. I do wonder how slow it would be though, 3 million + codes is a lot to search though each scan.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:30am
    - RoboRob
      
      Yup thats exactly how I would do it if I was building the app, no conspiracy here 🙂
      
      You must have offline functionality and this way the venue can buy a cheap smartphone (or use an old one) and let the staff use it for scanning. No worries about needing Wifi or cell data. Boss can take it home occasionally to update the database.
      
      Not sure what you do with someone who has a valid passport but who is not in your offliene DB though. That could be a problem for staff.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:05am
      - westernScientest
        
        I suspect its going to be a cluster fuck. A not up to date local database will be one of them, it not reading codes well, the speed at which the app does the verification will probably be another one and there will no doubt be more.
        
        I think anyone thinking this is going to let hospo etc make money again and stay afloat is dreaming. There will be an initial rush, then people will get frustrated with the rigmarole or the passes, the masks, the tracing etc. and just not go out as much as pre-covid. Or businesses will treat it they way the do contact tracing and it will just be ignored.
        
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        November 23, 2021 9:44am
      - cmm
        
        “Not sure what you do with someone who has a valid passport but who is not in your offliene DB though”
        
        Really easy… You use the offline database to do a first search. Update this every day, or twice a day. 99% or more of scans will be there and can be found in the database in a millisecond at most. This vastly cuts down on the transaction rate of the whole system.
        
        For the last 1% (ie. scans not in the database), send a request to the server which will only have to perform a few transactions a second and can answer in 1 second or less.
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:55am
      - RoboRob
        
        @cmm. Yes, if you have data access thats what you do. My reference was more the hairdressers that doesn’t have internet and doesn’t want staff to have to use their own cellphones (The haridresser I heard on the radio yesterday). In this case an overnight update would probably the most frequent.
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:37am
      - cmm
        
        Robo… pretty much every hairdresser either has local internet wifi (eg. their booking system is all internet based) or within cell reception areas (ie. has internet).
        
        They’d only need to do internet transactions to update the database (probably a few tens of kbytes now and then after you’ve uploaded the initial ~60MB), then the very occasional transaction to ping the server.
        
        For a hairdresser shop that serves less than 50 customers a day, they’d probably only need to ping the server about 2 or 3 times a week.
        
        A $100 phone is adequate for the job. Get one for the front desk.
        
        Now all I’m looking at here is the technical aspects. I’m not saying we should have a vax passport system to keep the untermenchen in their place.
        
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        November 23, 2021 12:56pm
      - cmm
        
        western: I agree completely.
        
        What happens when a group of 20 turns up and have booked a table, then one person left their phone at home or the battery went flat and can’t show their papers? Does the manager turn the party away? Bummer for business!
        
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        November 23, 2021 1:00pm
    - cmm
      
      In a small population like NZ it is feasible to download every QR code (or a hash of it) to the scanning device and then update that every few hours or so.
      
      Done properly that approach would need approx 6 to 8 bytes per record for the hash and, say, 30 bytes to include also a name and age etc.
      
      For, say, 4 million vax passes that would be 120Mbytes. That data should be reasonably compressible (to ~50%) and only need 60MBytes to transfer – ten seconds over a fast internet connection.
      
      That is well within the capabilities of the average smartphone. Searching 4 million records should take a tiny fraction of a second (less than 1 millisecond, if done properly).
      
      The option at the other end of the scale is to scan the code and send it off to a server for verification. That is prone to problems because the server needs to handle huge amounts of traffic (eg. tens of thousands of people turning up at wine bars across the country after work).
      
      Of course this will probably be programmed by the numptie club and the system will not scale well.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:33am
  - alloytoo
    
    What bloody use is it if it finds an invalid pass after the customer leaves?
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:59am
    - cmm
      
      The “use” is to tick the box of having a vaccine passport system to say they have done it.
      
      A bit like the contact tracing system, it doesn’t really have to work for the theatre to be effective.
      
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      November 23, 2021 2:36pm
  - NoFax
    
    Yes this is a little confusing for sure. On the Google Store it states that the app is 147 mb which seems light to have all the data. However, it further states that verifying is done on the device so would imply that it doesn’t connect to a server.
    
    My concern would be is how often does a company update the database? I can imagine a few arguments around that.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:45am
    - Ruawai
      
      Surely the business won’t hold all NZ vaccine passport data on their phone, I am sure I have not given permission for every business in NZ to hold my vaccine info on their phones.
      
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      November 23, 2021 1:28pm
    - cmm
      
      147MB?
      
      What a terribly designed app! Pile of shit, but it no doubt cost us a huge bundle.
      
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      November 23, 2021 2:37pm
      - krazykiwi
        
        Steady on old chap. This is v1.0. No totalitarian regime got their instruments of tyranny right the first time. Perfection takes iterations.
        
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        November 23, 2021 2:47pm
    - NoFax
      
      I have downloaded the scanner app and played with it a little.
      
      The scanner does not connect to a central server – the scanner works without connection to the internet.
      
      It does not download the entire database – it is too small for that and was no delay in downloading the scanner and been able to scan.
      
      So when I scanned my name, DOB, and Valid with a green tick came up.
      
      All the information is in the QR code itself. Basically, an algorithm generates the QR with my data and the scanner decodes it. This means it can be hacked rather quickly and a person with the right skills will be able to have a QR code that the scanner will read with their own name, DOB, and valid status if they want.
      
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      November 23, 2021 5:10pm
  - AM
    
    The way I read the spec, it downloads a valid list of signing authorities, which is simply to ensure the code hasn’t been tampered with and resigned by an unauthorised party. A couple of small electronic certificates to download at the most.
    
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    November 23, 2021 12:12pm
- Jade Warrior
  
  That headline illustrates the reason why I am in favour of the status quo – “Australia” and “Aotearoa” look too similar – especially when they are next to each other on a map of the world.
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:06am
- Bob
  
  I hope that the economy of Aotearoa can survive without the financial economic gain from 250,000 airborne visitor tourists.
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:58am
  - cmm
    
    I hope that Aotearoa can survive without the taxpayers of NZ propping it up.
    
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    November 23, 2021 2:39pm
Pavel

In regards to the traffic light system, can anyone tell me what exactly is a “close contact business”? All I see is it is bars, restaurants, hairdressers and gyms. Will big stores like mitre10 and the warehouse and other retail be included in the vaccine certificate system? If not will they be closed at orange and red? Is it all businesses except supermarkets, pharmacies and petrol stations, or just close contact?
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November 23, 2021 8:04am
- rouppe
  
  Jacinda hasn’t decided which side of her mouth to poke her tongue, so no one knows yet
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:18am
  - Over Taxed Worker
    
    She speaks with forked tongue so it will be both sides at the same time!
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:48am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Both sides, so if one is wrong the other must be correct. Continuous word soup
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:53am
- alex Masterley
  
  Dime could tell you.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:18am
  - dime
    
    heh Dime is a reformed suburban dad nowadays 😀
    
    still a disgusting alley cat deep down i suspect though
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:37am
- igm
  
  What about supermarkets where those of particular ethnicities do not QR or sign in, refuse to wear masks . . . a bloody joke!
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:18am
  - emmess
    
    Good on anyone of any race that does not follow their ridiculous rules.
    And if you are poor enough to get away with it, because they will not fine you, why not?
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:31am
- KevO'Brien
  
  What freedom is there if we do not know what and how the new system is to operate? Is that not a fatal legal flaw from the outset?
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:36am
- kevn
  
  @Pavel…. Yes or no.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:43am
- Rich Prick
  
  Fucked if I know. Under Red, on Tuesdays, you’re fine so long as you hop on your left foot 2.5m from a masked seeing-eye dog. Other than that, you’re on your own working it all out.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:56am
- RoboRob
  
  Jacinda and co wont have worked that out yet. We will know when the media asks her at a press conference and she makes a guess at the answer. Then other ministers will contradict her and later she will claim she meant something quite different. After about two weeks of bouncing around the ministers will meet, decide and agree that they all said that in the first place.
  
  Sounds like a joke but thats pretty much how every decision has been announced.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:09am
- RoboRob
  
  Not sure it matters. One of the ‘clear’ things we do know about the traffic light system is that when there are no or low hospitalisations we are in Green. We go up levels as hospitals get overwhelmed. Under that reasoning most of the country should be in Green. Yet when we move to the traffic system the whole country is to move to at least amber. So it really is pretty much whatever suits the government at the time.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:12am
- Jim
  
  Working backwards I assume the government should issue a vaccine mandate to the sex industry lol……or are they expecting some individual discretion lol
  On a serious side, I do expect Jabcinda to direct Police to be checking passes is cafes and restaurants over the holidays…….I for one will not take too kindly to such unnecessary Stasi like waste of Police resource.
  
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  November 24, 2021 6:44am
BAM

Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
I hope Bridges tries to roll Collins and become leader again, that will pretty much end Nationals time as a major political party.

We might finally get some decent change in NZ with ACT and Seymour running the country.
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November 23, 2021 8:05am
- Antoine
  
  Seymour for PM!
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:14am
  - BAM
    
    Having a PM that represents the people instead of some corporate/UN mouthpiece will be an interesting experience.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:25am
  - Isobar
    
    It’s Act thats doing the heavy lifting on the right at the moment. National have plateaued and just cannot seem to get over the 30% mark (or even close to (Collins own 35% sacking point).
    
    Should ACT’s momentum continue into 2022 it will be interesting – I suspect they will intend to challenge right learning seats which may be making some National Mp’s sweat. But this is what they need to do if they want to establish themselves as a permanent party structure with a base not just in Epsom.
    
    I wonder if National will look to gift them a handful of potential right leaning seats to target, or if they will risk splitting the vote.
    
    Whatever happens in the next year, (unless National presses ahead with a leadership change and can can some momentum from that) National and ACT need to show the electorate that they can work together well and look like a govt in waiting. We dont want another similar National / NZF breakup situation unfolding.
    
    This also means that Seymour needs to stand aside a bit more an let some of his team get proper air time in the public – especially the ones that are likely in line for senior ministerial positions in the next RW govt. Its important that they become recognisable and can show their leadership credentials.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:51am
    - Jack5
      
      That’s a good point, Isobar. Who are the ACT MPs?
      
      You wouldn’t want ACT to be over-dominated by its leader, in the way that Peters used to keep most of the NZ First MPs near-anonymous
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:17am
- Ian Boag
  
  Here is one for FPP supporters.
  
  ACT in some ways resembles the old Social Credit party. Noone much knows who the party stalwarts are other than the leader … 15-20% of the vote. 0-2 electorate seats.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:21am
  - BAM
    
    https://www.act.org.nz/act-mps
    
    There are some very skilled people in that list, far better than the utter crap that National and especially Labour have in their ranks.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:30am
    - Ian Boag
      
      some very skilled people in that list
      
      No doubt. They don’t seem to say much (anything?) – we pretty much only hear from Seymour with the odd cameo from van Velden (and I had to look her up to make sure I got the name right).
      
      Under FPP they would be nowhere.
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:55am
    - Ian Boag
      
      I wasn’t commenting on the politics of the ACT party. ACT and Social Credit could hardly be more different policy-wise 🙂
      
      Just making the observation that only MMP has made it possible for a party like this to get to where it is. Protest votes are no longer “lost” and “splitting the vote” is no longer an issue.
      
      There seems to be support on KB for a return to FPP and I wondered if these folk are also ACT supporters ….
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:06am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        That is just part of the general Kiwiblog nostalgia for the good old days.
        
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        November 23, 2021 10:06am
    - Albert_Ross
      
      Don’t doubt it, but when was “being a very skilled person” ever a guarantee of success in a general election?
      
      Sad fact is, that there’s only marginal overlap between the qualities required to be a good MP, much less a good Minister, and the qualities that are likely to get a person elected.
      
      FPP proponents need to take this point seriously, not just downtick it.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:21am
    - kowtow
      
      On cue stuffed cartoonist attacks Seymour today.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:14am
  - ecco
    
    Why not if it works? Labour is milking the Maori seat situation.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:09am
  - westernScientest
    
    Its not really a direct comparison though, people like ACT because they have elements of the old Nats (economic, smaller government, hand up not hand out), and old labour – they are socially progressive regardless of what smears the Leftists want to throw at them (gay marriage, end of life choice, abortion etc. ). If we were still in FPP the Nats would be a more representative party of the regions they were elected from. For example the Selwyn candidate would be very much a rural candidate focusing on rural issues where as the Central Auckland candidate would be focusing on city issues. By having the FPP system it reduces the whole sale attempts by both major parties to capture the national middle ground because it is the middle ground in each electorate they are trying to capture. This would have kept both major parties as more representative of the country as a whole, rather than the wellington-centric shambles we have now.
    
    BTW I am not a proponent of MMP or FPP, they are both stupid systems.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:29am
  - Isobar
    
    Interestingly if you took the party vote out of the last election and just based it on seats Labour would have a super majority right now (assuming the electorates stayed the same)
    
    Labour would hold 46 seats (63%) to Nationals 23 (31%). 1 each for green, act, and maori.
    
    Not sure if that would be a great idea.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:54am
- Raphael
  
  I like Bridges, I voted for him last time round and will vote for him next time. And while I think he was a good leader (and I believe will be in the future), I don’t know if he will get enough traction with the voters.
  He’s sadly still tainted by the voters negative reaction to his actually doing his job as leader of the opposition during the first lockdown.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:47am
  - Bobba Fret
    
    My thoughts exactly. I am still pissed off at Hooten and Muller for rolling Simon who I thought was doing a great job up against an extremely hostile media who basically attacked anyone that even questioned what the government were doing regarding Covid etc.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:00am
    - Flossie
      
      Speaking of Muller I presume he’s still collecting his salary? Wonder what he’s doing…and will continue doing for the next couple of years.
      
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      November 23, 2021 12:46pm
  - mikenmildagain
    
    He was certainly a better party leader than his predecessor and his two (so far) successors.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:07am
  - ecco
    
    Bridges comes across very well on his Friday 7.15am slot against Parker on the AM show.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:20am
    - Lance
      
      As much as I like Simon, a dead parrot could out perform Parker.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:26am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    I saw this story on the Herald at the weekend:
    
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/on-the-tiles-simon-bridges-feels-controversial-facebook-post-now-vindicated/NOPVIW2DJ7C7BGXYBFPDFNDB5E/
    
    Virtually everything Bridges referred to in the infamous Facebook post that got spammed by bots, many from Florida, has come to pass. Most of the suggestions he made as National leader and Chair of the Covid Response Committee were eventually adopted. He paid a very high price for not blindly following the PM’s line.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:33am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Don’t you mean that the National Party has paid a high price for its shambolic factionalism and fervent internal plotting?
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:50am
    - Isobar
      
      He’s totally running…
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:55am
- alloytoo
  
  Stop reading Tova, she’s just passing on Jacinda’s talking points.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:03am
Vory v zakone

Hunter Chiden’s firm helped Chinese buy American-owned cobalt mine in $3.8 billion deal.

The deal helped China’s worldwide dominance over the cobalt market. China now has the worlds largest deposit which can be used to make batteries for electric vehicles (great rest/green new deal)

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10226309/Hunter-Biden-firm-helped-Chinese-company-purchase-one-worlds-largest-cobalt-mines.html
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November 23, 2021 8:06am
- rangitoto
  
  The latest batteries don’t use cobalt so the deal isn’t so good.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:32am
Yvette

Traffic lights to become law without any scrutiny
The Government’s intention to ram through the traffic light framework legislation under urgency this week with no opportunity for public consultation is an outrageous abuse of power, says National’s Covid spokesperson Chris Bishop.

Does that start today?

Meanwhile, back in the real world –
It is widely reported in international media that the Pfizer vaccine wains in aspects of its efficacy after 5 to 6 months, which is supposed acknowledged by the fact that the New Zealand Vaccination Pass is issued with an Expiry Date recorded on each.

However that six month Best By Date is timed from the download from the Internet of the Vaccination Pass, not from the date of one’s second vaccine injection, plus two weeks (to achieve full immune efficacy)

Were the latter bio-science supported date in effect, many essential workers and immune-system-compromised people – the first to be fully vaccinated around April this year – should have been issued Passes with their Best By Date already expired.
By next April these people will be counted as having valid Passes, with a month to go, although it will a year since their 2nd vaccine injection.

In a family where one person has actually been vaccinated months before another family member who is just vaccinated, and the first family member downloads the Vaccine Passport after the other, her or his Pass (although months less valid) can then have a later expiry date than the just vaccinated person.

If everyone currently eligible to have a vaccination, indeed availed themselves of that and then downloaded a Vaccination Pass, will the Ardern Government have actually organised 4.2 million inaccurate Passes.

Besides being utterly counterproductive – likely actually endangering life, if not serious illness and hospitalisations – should Parliament pass this measure into law before this anomaly is corrected?

And how is this drawn to the attention of the Opposition, so it is not a bloody waste of time even mentioning it?
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November 23, 2021 8:10am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  So folks with waning/limited immunity will be freely moving around the community for 6 months, but will be viewed as being fully vaxxed.
  
  Never mind, I’m sure the unvaxxed can take all the blame for the continuing spread of outbreaks throughout the country.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:47am
  - krazykiwi
    
    Yes. That’s the plan, and sadly many (most?) NZers will help attribute the blame. It won’t resemble kristallnacht for a while. More wrinkled noses and untermensch references, until locking down the unvaxxed and/or forcing them to submit to being injected with whatever the state demands.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:11pm
- Rich Prick
  
  This is what happens when Government inserts it’s IT into your health and freedom.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:06am
artemisia

Someone was prescient when they named a domain for training journalists NZBS.
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November 23, 2021 8:10am
- Ehlana
  
  Oh, artemisa, that gave me a good laugh. Thank you.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:46am
Raphael

The Submission period for the repeal of 3 Strikes is open.

@DavidGarett could you possibly give those of us who want to submit against the repeal some key points that we can include?

https://www.thedailyexaminer.co.nz/repeal-of-the-three-strikes-law/
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November 23, 2021 8:13am
- Yvette
  
  Raphael, perhaps for your information
  
  The Fourth Water (but 1st in the chain)
  Taumata Arowai
  Taumata Arowai was established as a standalone Crown entity in March 2021 and became New Zealand’s dedicated regulator of drinking water, wastewater and stormwater when the Water Services Bill was enacted in September 2021. For more information please go to the Taumata Arowai website.
  https://www.taumataarowai.govt.nz
  (an extremely ‘woke’ Maori immersed website – similar to the Climate Change Commission, which is guilty of vast cultural mis-appropriation, but besmirches Maori by the Commission’s failures in delivery of accurate science)
  
  Important dates and milestones for Taumata Arowai.
  15 November 2021
  Taumata Arowai took over from the Ministry of Health as the regulator of drinking water for Aotearoa.
  
  Who knew? – buried amid covid.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:22am
Maggie Pie

The beauty of granting BAIL to violent crims 🙁
[From my partners… ‘You can’t make this sh*t up’ file.]

Darrell Brookes Jnr, suspected of being the black man who drove the SUV thru the Waukesha Xmas Parade, killing 6 and injuring 40 others, had already been charged three times in the last 2 years with recklessly endangering the lives of others. In the latest case this, a woman claimed he purposefully ‘ran her over with his vehicle’ after a domestic dispute.

https://twitter.com/journalsentinel/status/1462812131246673924
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November 23, 2021 8:14am
- Vory v zakone
  
  Meanwhile a current Headline from #FakeNews CNN
  
  “There’s nothing more frightening today than an angry WHITE man”
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:21am
  - mawm
    
    I’m confused. Am I a boomer, or a far right white supremacist or now an angry white man? Things change so fast.
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:46am
- rouppe
  
  Plus the fact he is black is not publicised at all.
  
  Yet pulse oximiters have racial bias.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:24am
  - cmm
    
    Vit D also has a racial bias.
    
    If dark skinned people took two Vit D tabs a day it would VASTLY reduce issues with CV19 as well as many other diseases.
    
    13 1
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    November 23, 2021 8:38am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    BLM are labelling it as…. ‘retribution for the Rittenhouse verdict’.
    Others in the know, are calling Darrell a Darrell.
    
    https://twitter.com/DailyCaller/status/1462862187760959489
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:44am
  - kowtow
    
    A tale of two cases .
    
    The media pardy did everything they could to make the Rittenhouse case about race . Whereas they’ll do the opposite with this one.
    
    Agenda. Fake media.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:00am
- Libertarians are right
  
  $500 bail for reckless homicide when he has a bail jumping history vs 2mths in jail and $2m bail for Rittenhouse but White Supremacy means white people get treated better?
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:02am
Russ the Muss

There’s a lot going on at the moment and something that came up the other day but passed without too much comment was the text from Cuddles Coster telling his leader they nabbed Tamaki. Given everything a politician is bundled up on police matters they claim, ‘I don’t get involved in operational matters’ . What is the actual demarcation between the executive and the police? Is it illegal for the PM to direct the cops to arrest or look at someone? Given this text from Cuddles can be Inferred as the 2nd part of any backchannel order, informing the Queen of her wish being fulfilled. Is this kosha? The other weird part of the text is, why tell her when the news will break within an hour and her minders will tell her. I don’t get why he would tell her????? Seems odd to me.
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November 23, 2021 8:16am
Vory v zakone

Bill Gates: “Clearly one of the best investments I’ve ever been involved in” ?

https://twitter.com/JamesMelville/status/1461750873445568515?t=XEg5vrWIcIBgIj2FVWblSA&s=19
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November 23, 2021 8:16am
Simon

Trump: “Most vaccines take 12 years, they said this would take anywhere from 3-5 but most likely more than 5, and I got it done in less than nine months.”

https://twitter.com/disclosetv/status/1462771550369849349

lol.

All the Never Trumps mad keen to inject themselves and much worse to coerce others with his warp speed corona vax.
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November 23, 2021 8:17am
Opie

I’m still confused as to which places will require a “vaccination” certificate for entry.

Restaraunts and cafes etc and hairdressers, gyms – yes or restricted numbers/closed.

Some say retail dont need to, some say they do? Can a filthy unvacced still go to bunnings?

What about physio, the dentist, the library?
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November 23, 2021 8:18am
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Everywhere will require it….to protect their staff, of course.
  
  The PM told us supermarkets, Petrol stations and Medical care centres will still be open to the unvaxxed …
  
  So there are some areas where we would want to be very explicit, that you should never withhold services that are essential; food, access to health services, pharmacies and so on.”
  
  https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/452981/vaccine-certificates-uncertainty-over-enforcement-extent-of-essential-services
  
  but I bet it will be damn difficult to access some medical centres, midwives, opticians, and dentists if unvaxxed.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:37am
  - mawm
    
    The fear that has been generated about the lethality of covid will ensure that the average person is going to cringe away from an unvaccinated person. Can you imagine a dental hygienist wanting to spend half an hour cleaning your teeth?
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:53am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Sadly it is looking more and more like it is the unjabbed who are at risk from the jabbed.
      
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      November 23, 2021 12:08pm
      - andydownhere
        
        Yes, you are right. Someone posted alink from the Ministry of Health guideline lines the other day saying exactly that.
        And the UKs NHS data updated frequently says the same. Twice as likely to get covid if you are Vaxxed.
        
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        November 23, 2021 7:31pm
  - Flossie
    
    So supermarket workers should get danger money?
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:36am
    - rouppe
      
      I’ve seen supermarket workers with their mask around their chin too…
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:47am
  - Random T Person
    
    Somebody needs to tell this stupid idiot Jacinda that ALL services are essential, or they wouldn’t exist.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:23am
    - Ed Snack
      
      I’d make an exception for advertizing, but maybe that’s just me…
      
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      November 23, 2021 1:44pm
  - Raphael
    
    Medical care centres
    
    I had a mate in Auckland whose medical centre refused to see him because he had not yet had his second jab (which he has since done).
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:23pm
- Ruahine
  
  Every where will need one eventually. Much sooner than you think.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:45am
  - mawm
    
    The unvaccinated need to start organising! If they want us to live beyond the pale then we need to set up our own economy and share information as to where we can get the necessary. Does anyone know of a website where we can do so? Asking for a friend.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:00am
    - Fletch
      
      There are Facebook groups for “unjabbed community sharing businesses who don’t discriminate. ” Just do a search. They will be private and you have to apply to join.
      
      Personally, I do not see how the whole passport thing can last for long. A bar near my folks advertised their reopening next week and mentioned the passport required. The Facebook comments were not pretty. Mostly all negative.
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:24am
    - Diogenes
      
      I agree and like the idea. Easiest would be a Facebook page, but it would probably need to be a closed page to avoid the inevitable vitriol. (And, of course, there are huge question marks about what FB would do with the data and who would have access to it.) However, I’m sure the more technologically literate among KB bloggers can suggest better ways.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:11am
      - crackle
        
        Telegram has a pretty nice collection of doors into the unvaxxed blackmarket… fake passes that successfully scan are at $100
        
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        November 23, 2021 1:40pm
      - curry4me
        
        Diogenes: A MeWe page would be better.
        
        2 1
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        November 23, 2021 1:45pm
      - Diogenes
        
        curry4me, you have me: What is a MeWe page? I’m fascinated.
        Meanwhile, I have just come across this article at ZeroHedge:
        “Most of us own too much unnecessary stuff and have borrowed waaayyy too much money to buy said stuff. Meanwhile, all that debt is boosting inflation, making things that actually matter harder to afford.
        “But free people have a way of self-organizing solutions to their problems, and one of the more inspiring examples is the ‘Buy Nothing Project,’ through which members give or lend unneeded things to their neighbors.”
        I could relate to this. The link is https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/emerging-alt-economy-buy-nothing
        
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        November 23, 2021 5:16pm
    - titoki
      
      [deleted – sorry we are not promoting this here. mod.]
      
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      November 23, 2021 7:22pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    I give around 2-3 years before the “social credit” score system is added to these internal passports, with restrictions on travel and opportunities for the “deplorables”.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:46pm
    - cmm
      
      They’d like to do that, but remember these are the muppets who couldn’t even order the right length needles.
      
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      November 23, 2021 2:46pm
- MCōs
  
  Rather than asking people on this forum you’re better off to look here.
  https://covid19.govt.nz/alert-levels-and-updates/covid-19-protection/
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:20am
  - Opie
    
    Mcos
    
    If you read your own link you will understand the lack of clarity I’m raising.
    
    What is a close contact business?
    
    You cant make this shit up, now they have said that all staff of businesses requiring the passport or being eligible to require the passport must have their 1st shot by December 3.
    
    They will release details in the middle of december for business to assess this requirement, 2 weeks after the cut off date.
    
    This is being run by a bunch of amoebas
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:20am
slightlyrighty

Yesterday in STUFF.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/travel-troubles/127066431/air-new-zealand-cancels-1000-flights-between-aotearoa-and-australia

What is with the headline? Air New Zealand cancels flights between Aotearoa?

Why can’t they say Air New Zealand cancels Trans Tasman flights?

Every day I see more of this stealth approach to political change encapsulated in the very names we use, and the titles we recognise.
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November 23, 2021 8:19am
- Yvette
  
  slightlyrighty
  Air Aotearoa, not to be confused with AA.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:27am
- Yabster
  
  lets face it we should all stop reading Stuffed- by going to ther site they can sell more advertising as the can say this page has this many views/clicks etc
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:45am
  - Cobolt24
    
    I drastically reduced my daily visits to them after that Pou Tiaki section in 2020 sometime. And doubly gave up when I later found a story $tuffed put out about how calendars/time was racist/sexist/colonialist or something along those lines.
    I go back on occasion, but at most it’s once a month.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:29am
  - miltonF
    
    I removed the stuff app a couple of months ago after receiving a warning that I will be banned from commenting. haha. My crime? I commented that I would not spend any money at any establishment that supports vaccine mandates, and that I will never support fascism. Apparently that is now considered offensive/hate speech. Stuff is a echo chamber, cesspit of degenerate, immoral, leftie numb skulls.
    
    It is literally ok to comment on Stuff that you wish death upon certain groups. You will get praised with many upticks. But don’t ever dare to express your dislike of fascism. Big hate speech no no.
    
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    November 23, 2021 3:49pm
I remember when

Are the Maori Health Authority and changes to the second year doctor qualification/quota numbers just a coindence.
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November 23, 2021 8:19am
ecco

The reason Auckland is being held back and not opened up is clearly due to the clusterf*ck that is the vaccine passport, and nothing else.

Robertson was on Hosking’s show this morning saying there’s still a verifier part of the passport that hasn’t even been handed to the hairdressers yet. Will be all over the show for the hairdressers. They should just do the best they can with this crap and open up. Hope they don’t stress over it. Ardern and co making it up as they go and blaming everyone but themselves for not opening up.

Btw am getting as sick of the sound of Robertson’s weasel words as I am of Ardern.
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November 23, 2021 8:19am
- MCōs
  
  I listened to an actual hairdresser on the radio this morning who couldn’t be happier that she’ll be open again latter this week.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:25am
  - Lance
    
    Like a person that has had their head held underwater for 2 minutes is grateful that they are allow to come up for air.
    The original situation was still fucked up
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:32am
  - ClanMcleod
    
    That’s why she was on the radio obviously. Single source of truth and all that.
    
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    November 23, 2021 12:11pm
    - MCōs
      
      They also talked to a cafe owner who grizzled & grumped about everything.
      That’ll make you happy.
      
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      November 23, 2021 1:17pm
Tony Stuart

Kāinga Ora hits rock bottom:

A terrified elderly couple say they were forced to cower inside their home after their abusive Kāinga Ora neighbours held a Black Power party at which a police officer was allegedly assaulted and a reveller tried to steal a patrol car.

As the party kicked off on Saturday night, police advised the Whangārei couple to stay inside their neighbouring Kāinga Ora property for their own safety.

Patched gang members boozed from hours of drinking allegedly crashed a car outside the property and urinated in their shared driveway while shouting obscenities as officers dealt with the disorder.

Kāinga Ora admits it was aware of the planned gathering but says it was powerless to stop it, instead advising neighbours to call police with any concerns.

“It was horrific,” the 69-year-old wife told the Herald.

“I was a mess. I was shaking like a leaf.”

The Herald reported last week how the couple had been subjected to death threats by one of the tenants – a Black Power gang member who allegedly threatened to slit the 82-year-old husband’s throat and watch him “bleed out”.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/kainga-ora-under-fire-after-black-power-gang-party-in-whangarei-state-house/VPNTY2ATXF5DJ3IM6ESLFSRI4A/

This is absolutely outrageous. As if the threats already made against the elderly couple weren’t bad enough, Kāinga Ora has completely and totally abdicated its responsibility towards those being affected by these delinquent tenants.

Associate Minister Public Housing Poto Williams has asked Kāinga Ora for a briefing on this incident, but that is simply not enough. She should be calling the boss of Kāinga Ora into her office today, and telling them in no uncertain terms that heads should roll over this.

Of course Williams won’t do anything like that. Since 2018, after Labour was elected, Kāinga Ora has a “no evictions” policy, no matter how badly delinquent tenants behave. So Labour is hoist by its own petard.

Once again, a gang and its associates are perceived as receiving preferential treatment from the Government and its agencies. Labour will try and bury the story and claim its all Kāinga Ora’s doing, but it’s clear that Labour is soft on gangs.
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November 23, 2021 8:20am
- rouppe
  
  The affected tenants need to send a 14 day remediation notice to KO under the residential tenancies act.
  
  Then take KO to the Tenancy Tribunal.
  
  KO are clearly in breach of their legal responsibilities as a landlord
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:29am
  - alex Masterley
    
    Sue KO in nuisance for damages.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:27am
- BAM
  
  What has National said about this?
  Are they going to reverse the no evictions policy?
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:38am
  - Tony Stuart
    
    You’ll find some answers here BAM; what KO is doing is unlawful, and National has called on Williams to direct them to drop the ban on evictions:
    
    https://www.national.org.nz/government-eviction-ban-breaks-the-law
    
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    November 23, 2021 8:53am
    - BAM
      
      That’s some weak sauce.
      What she should say is
      
      The no-eviction policy will be gone by lunchtime if National is elected in 2023, it’s a privilege to have a Housing NZ home, you don’t get to abuse that privilege.
      
      If you do, you’re out the door.
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:12am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        Willis has stated in interviews that National will reverse the policy. But the sad reality is that Labour is in government now, and it’s now that this disgraceful situation needs to be fixed. Calling on the Minister to intervene means either
        
        1) The No Evictions policy is dropped immediately, or
        2) National can attack Labour and Poto Williams from now until the election for not doing something to sort out the mess in her Ministry.
        
        I’d rather the policy was abolished immediately, but if it takes a change of government for that to happen, we just have to be patient. It makes Poto Williams even more of a target of ridicule than she already is, so I suppose that’s a good thing!
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:42am
    - cmm
      
      I must say I am not impressed by the very passive wording used here: “KO must do xxx”
      
      What we should surely expect to see from an opposition that wants to actually convince the population that they are a worth voting for is some ACTION.
      
      Is it left to the people who are being threatened to go to the police & bring a case against KO?
      
      These people in parliament, yes even opposition, are elected representatives that are knowledgeable about the law and should be leading the charge.
      
      How about some people at National making a lot more noise and bringing a case against KO?
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:17am
  - peterwn
    
    It would be necessary to provide last resort vandal resistant housing (eg converted shipping containers with prison style toilets/handbasins, etc) for those who are evicted. Would need to be located remotely from other housing.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:19am
    - Fuzzysnuggleduck
      
      KO and the minister keep talking of ‘complex needs’ of the feral scum who leech off the state and terrorise their neighbors.
      
      Completely wrong angle to be looking at any supposed social contract with such ‘customers’ : what about the reasonable expectation that they behave appropriately if gifted a house by taxpayers & fellow citizens?
      
      I agree that they should be moved elsewhere, and concrete or steel shacks in the arse-end of nowhere should be the result for people who are little better than animals.
      
      But – we know it won’t happen, and National is not even likely to propose it. At least National is trying to make the government squirm, but that is about all we can hope for.
      
      The dialogue needs to move away from obligations being entirely in one direction around a duty of care, and the consideration of gang members as customers.
      Gangs have plenty of cash – how about they provide housing for their own whanau?
      
      Police have been gelded, and the people running the government and KO have something like an utterly insane perspective around social housing.
      Labour builds even less prison capacity than they do social housing. Sad fact.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:56am
  - Lance
    
    Considering Simon Bridges gets death threats from gang members, then yea, National are about stopping the gang shit.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:35am
- alex Masterley
  
  I live in the PM’s electorate.
  In a nearby street there is a private consented boarding house – a villa and a sleep out.
  The landlord rents the property to ‘501s, people on bail, and post release prisoners. To say that it is a zoo is an understatement, fights, theft from neighboring houses and shops, drug dealing – the works. The police regularly visit to remove people from the premises.
  The PM’s office has suddenly taking an interest in the problem, and is contacting all sorts of agencies – police, council MSD and I think Kianga Ora to resolve the issue.
  There is a real distinction in the approach to KO dropping ne’er do wells into communties and the private boarding house doing the same.
  It would be nice to see a consistent approach accross the board but i doubt it.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:27am
  - peterwn
    
    Helen Clark must have stirred up.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:14am
I remember when

Is it only a matter of time before the traffic lights become a rainbow crossing.
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November 23, 2021 8:21am
- Yvette
  
  I remember when – the traffic lights become a rainbow crossing
  
  I hope not –
  Wellington’s rainbow crossing – The installation of the crossing and associated costs amounted to $26,844.47 excluding GST.
  
  When Sydney introduced a rainbow crossing, only to remove it after safety concerns, the ultimate cost was AU$110,000.”
  “This appears to be a purely tokenistic gesture that will not improve people’s day-to-day lives. The Mayor seems to have forgotten that gay people pay rates too!”
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:36am
- Fletch
  
  Yep, we might go from Red, Yellow, Green to all the rainbow colors – Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet. That will give them more “levels” to play with. ?
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:16am
ecco

With Oz opening up to international students their unis are going to start getting back on their feet quickly. Will also be getting the cream of the crop abilitywise. By the time Ardern gets round to it we will be getting the also ran talent.

Labour government systematically taking down institutions like the universities. Not to mention air New Zealand which must be haemorrhaging money. Will surely have to be nationalised at some stage in a very sorry state for the tax payer to pick up the tab.

There will also be a massive brain drain of talent once Oz gets fully up and running. Everyone knows a young person in Nz planning their escape from here when possible.
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November 23, 2021 8:22am
- ClanMcleod
  
  We are actively planning our 11 year old’s education. It won’t be under the NZ system any longer. She will be home schooled for now, we are looking hard at overseas countries for High School and Uni eventually. We’re not letting her anywhere near the influence of these lunatics any longer.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:54am
  - mawm
    
    There are not many places left in the world that haven’t been taken over communists.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:02am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      I know, but there does seem to be a move in the right direction to correct that. These things are always fluid. Who knows, at some point NZ might get it’s shit together again!
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:54am
  - cmm
    
    We homeschooled our kids all the way through their school years. There is no need for high schools.
    
    Both went on to tertiary education and did well there.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:07am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      That’s good to hear. Thank you for some positive news!
      
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      November 23, 2021 10:52am
      - cmm
        
        There are thousands of homeschooling families in NZ. Most areas have HS groups which are great for outings & spreading the info.
        
        Many people are worried about highschool due to wanting entrance into uni. That is not needed. All universities have entrance policies which allow for people that do not have formal qualifications. All that is needed is proving you can cut it.
        
        One thing that I think is worth it for kids that have not been to school and thus never sat exams etc is to do one of the 6 month bridging courses that most, if not all, unis and polytechs provide.
        
        Both my kids got into engineering degree programs with no problems. Both attended these bridging course which they found helpful.
        
        eg. https://www.canterbury.ac.nz/get-started/transition/certificate/
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:06am
  - lifesgood
    
    I have been home schooling my grandchildren through lock down and have been impressed with how much they have progressed. Not my good teaching more just the traditional methods I’ve used. I have skipped one subject that I don’t think is important. I’d like to continue but haven’t the energy, unfortunately.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:46am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Thanks for that. Very encouraging stuff. Our girl is bright and motivated. It may be the best thing that happens to her, preferable to the stifling woke garbage being increasingly shoved down their throats.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:21am
  - Benedict Yu
    
    I feel very sorry for parents who cannot afford good private schools. There might be a handful of good public schools but they are still required to teach a whole bunch of garbage.
    
    You can have your kids educated at international schools, but that is a huge step and you need to have a great deal of money.
    
    Taipei has excellent English language medium schools.
    
    https://www.tas.edu.tw/
    
    But I guess they are mainly serving expats’ kids. But no doubt some kids are sent there from other countries to board.
    
    It is a scandal what has happened to the New Zealand school system.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:46am
    - ClanMcleod
      
      Cheers for that information. We have put away a reasonable amount of money so far and we will carry on over the next few years. Then it will come down to what we can afford obviously and possibly location. The idea of an overseas school didn’t appear on our radar originally, but the more we think about it the more we like the idea. It’s all about educating and expanding their horizons isn’t it? Something like that could be an amazing experience. Especially as the traditional OE is looking more and more horrendous compared to the 80s and 90s.
      Thank you.
      
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      November 23, 2021 12:15pm
- Over Taxed Worker
  
  Didn’t fully catch the exact stats, but roughly:
  International students – Australia had 800k and NZ 80k pre COVID-19.
  Australia has keep 50% of them, NZ 25%.
  So they are 4x ahead of us per head of population already before they re-open the border.
  That is a $5b a year industry all but wiped out!
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:56am
  - Jack5
    
    Not so much an industry as a rort.
    
    It was the sale of residency and citizenship disguised as an education industry.
    
    It was responsible for much of the population blow-out that’s overstrained facilities, resources, housing, services.
    
    If it resumes, surely the residence offer is severed from the study courses?
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:22am
    - Mike
      
      Please let that happen Not holding my breath. Too many wducation entrepeneurs are already establsihed with this faux industry.
      
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      November 23, 2021 12:59pm
- Parnell Gun Club
  
  I am happy to see these visa mill “education” providers disappear and the growth of student accommodation ghettos end. For me at least , that’s one positive to come out of all this.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:03am
  - ecco
    
    Agree with you on some of this, although the new hall in Whitaker Place doesn’t look too ghetto like.
    
    Apparently Otago uni halls oversubscribed for next year and have waiting lists maybe because people don’t want to send their kids to Akl uni. Thanks Jacinda for tainting Auckland unnecessarily.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:33am
- Stu2
  
  Oz will be importing skilled labour too, while we are stuck in the MIQ mentality.
  
  Oz has done a far better job at opening up.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:08am
KevO'Brien

What do we have with Cinder’s Regime?
https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/when-everything-artifice-and-pr-collapse-beckons
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November 23, 2021 8:38am
Yvette

Fossil Award
NZ awarded humiliating ‘fossil’ status at COP26
New Zealand won a Fossil award on the penultimate day of COP26, for Climate Change Minister James Shaw’s refusal to update the country’s National Determined Contribution to constraining global temperature rises.

… “There is precious little time left and we need to turn up the heat on countries not taking their domestic emissions reduction roles seriously. Lead by example Kiwis, do the right thing and stop the greenwash – and skip the spin cycle while you’re at it.”
Speaking from Glasgow on Pro Talks, Newsroom journalist Rod Oram said security staff at the summit had been asked to make themselves available for another two days, in the expectation that talks may stretch well into Sunday.

… the previous COP in Madrid set a terrible precedent for extended talks – those had stretched an extra two days, in which time world leaders had actually gone backwards to end up with a less comprehensive agreement. This time, one of the work-streams is led by James Shaw, putting an onus on New Zealand to help ensure transparency around the delivery of country’s pledges.
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/video/pro-talks-nz-awarded-humiliating-fossil-status-at-cop26

This perhaps makes Shaw’s controversial trip tp Glasgow worthwhile.
But, however, does it not bring into question the validity of the entire COP, if as well as awarding New Zealand a Fossil Award, they put James in charge of enshawing transparency around the delivery of COP country pledges – a COP cop?

The fox in charge of the chicken coop? – or, more seriously (sorry, poultry) –
Believe it or not, Saudi Arabia was elected to the U.N. women’s rights commission – 03 05 2017, Washington Post
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November 23, 2021 8:38am
grumpy

Gold from the left. When Ardern’s radical spin is too much, even for the left

https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2021/11/23/dissing-the-farmers/
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November 23, 2021 8:50am
- westernScientest
  
  The comments though…. definitely from people who have never produced any of their own food, let a lone any for others.
  This one in particular is a little astounding:
  
  “The world produces way to much food.
  
  30% is chucked out even when still good [I know as I have been a dumpster diver], and most homes could survive with better health by purchasing 50% less when they shop.
  
  So that equates to a national food need of around 35% of current production levels. And that figure is further reduced to less than 20% of current production levels, when you add in vege gardens at home and chickens.
  
  Take away wasteful and unnecessary sport and gyms etc, and you are probably closer to 10%.
  
  Many pastures should be retired.”
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:51am
Maggie Pie

TRENDING

A lot of tweets saying… ‘JFK assassinated this day in 1963’

Time to move on, surely?
11 5
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November 23, 2021 9:01am
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Last true Democrat and look at what they did to him.
  I was 11. Unbelievable
  
  11 2
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  November 23, 2021 10:20am
  - Frank the tank
    
    The Peanut Farmer was a true democrat as well.
    
    They made sure he was the last and then the Clinton dynasty started……the rest they say is history.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:35am
- mikenmildagain
  
  How about remembering something a bit older, but more relevant for us:
  Eighty years ago today saw one of the heaviest defeats for an individual NZ battalion during the Crusader offensive to relieve Tobruk.
  https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/25-battalion-suffers-heavy-casualties-point-175
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:27am
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Or even OLDER and even MORE relevant for us:
    
    NOMINATED KIWI OF THE WEEK – Te Kooti
    
    He initially fought on the government side during the New Zealand Wars before being exiled to the Chatham Islands for espionage!
    
    https://nzhistory.govt.nz/people/te-kooti-arikirangi-te-turuki
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:36am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Did you not even read your own link?
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:54am
      - Maggie Pie
        
        NAH… I’ve been out by the pool.
        
        10 3
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        November 23, 2021 12:18pm
ClanMcleod

Excellent, Jacinda made it onto the Bad Cattitude blog in good company with Dan Andrews. I loved this description of dear leader. Ignore the lack of caps, it’s their style of writing. The content is impeccable. The video clip is actually a bit frightening.

-look at the literal overflowing joy of wielding state power to other and alienate that drips from the bizarre escapee from some off the books of gain of function karen eugenics program currently masquerading as the kiwi prime minister as she announces that “vaxxpass macht frei!”

https://boriquagato.substack.com/p/lets-use-the-army-to-put-innocent/comments
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November 23, 2021 9:01am
Rusty

So hairdressers are being used as an experiment to see how this new vax certificate works or another way looking at it if people have long unkempt hair in our society then we know they haven’t been vaxxed.
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November 23, 2021 9:23am
- Batman
  
  I mean they could also get a clipper set and watch a few YouTube tutorials. I know a guy who does his own and it turns out perfectly fine with a bit of practice!
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:49am
  - Fletch
    
    As per my comment above, I tried it last week with clippers for the first time ever and it came out pretty well. Probably not perfect, but I surprised myself on how well I did.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:06am
    - Batman
      
      Yeah I saw that, well done to you.
      
      I tried once and never again…. Though I didn’t exactly prepare well or use the right methods!
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:23am
      - Jack5
        
        ?Batty, we’ll let you have a go with clippers, but not just yet with a shaving razor!
        
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        November 23, 2021 11:27am
      - Fletch
        
        I think a good big mirror is a must. I took the long narrow mirror we have off the wall in the hallway and set it on a chair in the bathroom, facing the bathroom mirror. It’s big and lets you have both hands free and can see the back of your head. The hand-held mirrors are too difficult I think.
        
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        November 23, 2021 12:16pm
      - Batman
        
        Definitely sensible advice there.
        
        In the meantime I still enjoy the barber experience and conversation so will continue letting someone who knows what they’re doing style mine! ?
        
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        November 23, 2021 12:43pm
- MCōs
  
  Half the blokes in the National Party caucus wouldn’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:27pm
alex Masterley

I have to take a deep breath. I agree with Simon Wilson. I hope I have set up the link correctly.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/simon-wilson-whats-up-with-labour-and-nationals-slum-enabling-act/DALHBIEXDTCOR4XJYZOAB6SFTQ/
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November 23, 2021 9:31am
- BAM
  
  Yep, utter madness National signing up to that.
  They literally threw the majority of their voters under the bus with that brain fart.
  Have they not heard of the saying, “My house is my castle”,
  such staggering stupidity and lack of awareness.
  
  Hardly surprising David Seymour and ACT aren’t that enthused about what’s been proposed and don’t support the new building framework for many of the reasons that Simon Wilson wrote about in his column.
  
  I expect the vote transfer from NAtional to ACT to continue to increase.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:41am
  - Ra Henare
    
    You do realise the proposal(which will wilt on the vine) is a planning consent not required.
    
    Not a building consent, which is still required with its restrictions.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:35am
ABS4EVA

JFK would have ensured we would have colonised the Solar System and beyond by now.

What has America done… instead
Afghanistan ….. etc

It is time to Study him and implement his Vision

https://www.jfklibrary.org/

We set sail on this new sea because there is new knowledge to be gained, and new rights to be won, and they must be won and used for the progress of all people. For space science, like nuclear science and all technology, has no conscience of its own. Whether it will become a force for good or ill depends on man, and only if the United States occupies a position of pre-eminence can we help decide whether this new ocean will be a sea of peace or a new terrifying theater of war. I do not say that we should or will go unprotected against the hostile misuse of space any more than we go unprotected against the hostile use of land or sea, but I do say that space can be explored and mastered without feeding the fires of war, without repeating the mistakes that man has made in extending his writ around this globe of ours.

There is no strife, no prejudice, no national conflict in outer space as yet. Its hazards are hostile to us all. Its conquest deserves the best of all mankind, and its opportunity for peaceful cooperation may never come again. But why, some say, the Moon? Why choose this as our goal? And they may well ask, why climb the highest mountain? Why, 35 years ago, fly the Atlantic? Why does Rice play Texas?

We choose to go to the Moon. We choose to go to the Moon…We choose to go to the Moon in this decade and do the other things, not because they are easy, but because they are hard; because that goal will serve to organize and measure the best of our energies and skills, because that challenge is one that we are willing to accept, one we are unwilling to postpone, and one we intend to win, and the others, too.[11]

—John F. Kennedy

PREPARE of AMERICA to ABDICATE
its Responsibilities and the Horrific
Mis Use of SPACE for WAR
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November 23, 2021 9:33am
Yvette

To Benedict Yu, Krazykiwi or any other kiwibloggers who may know –

If the covid vaccine, introducing artificial protein “spike” RNA to the immune system to educate it to recognise the same foreign features of covid virus more immediately it invades the body, does that ‘education’ of the immune system teach your body to also eliminate the vaccine itself, so it has an existence of only a few days?

And, how important would it be to some unvaccinated people to know that the vaccine itself, self-destructs, countering some conspiracy claims?
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November 23, 2021 9:34am
- Batman
  
  Here’s a couple of things 🙂
  
  https://www.epa.govt.nz/community-involvement/science-corner/sars-cov-2-vaccines-and-the-hsno-act/
  
  https://www.nebraskamed.com/COVID/where-mrna-vaccines-and-spike-proteins-go
  
  Apparently the answer is a few days!
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:03am
- Reid
  
  So what the marketing says is that the mRNA nanoparticles stay in the deltoid like in a normal vax and then they make your way into the lymph node under the arm local to the injection. In a normal vax your immune system will recognise the vax particles containing the viral genome as being a foreign body therefore something to be attacked. This sign “tagging” is done by your T-helper cells. When a T-helper tags a foreign particle for destruction, your T-killers come along and rip it apart, then your immune systems memory cells come along and take “photos” of each genomic fragment that remains after the killers have done their job. These “photos” are then used to give your body long-term recognition of the genome, so if it appears again in the form of an invading virus, your body recognises it and activates your military. That’s how a normal vax works.
  
  With the mRNA vax however, the RNA “script” is encased in a fat package (aka lipid nanoparticle) and its job is to keep the RNA intact inside your body long enough so it can find a cell with an ACE2 receptor and use that to get inside the cell and enter the ribosomes (protein factories in your cell) whereupon the RNA instructs the factory to begin making spike proteins. Once those spike proteins manifest themselves on the cell wall, your immune system recognises that as a foreign invader and tags the cell for destruction and immune processing in the same way I described above.
  
  That’s the marketing.
  
  [Deleted for spreading unsubstantiated claims without citation or evidence – Mod]
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:11pm
  - krazykiwi
    
    Reid, come back and school the Mod please.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:27pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    A link will justify this. The Mod wants ‘citation or evidence’ With a like it will no longer be ‘unsubstantiated’
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:56pm
  - Ed Snack
    
    Don’t think that the vaccine lipid particles use the ACE2 receptor to connect to and enter the cells, that’s what the virus does. The lipid envelope is intended to merge with the cell wall and enter that way. Neither the mRNA nor the lipid can bind to ACE2, and anyway, there are no ACE2 receptors in muscle cells anyway.
    
    The mRNA encodes a truncated version of the S protein which is (said to be) incapable of binding to ACE2, but which has enough similarities to be recognised the same by the immune system. These are produced in the cell and generate an immune response as foreign proteins. Not sure if they actually need to be embedded in the cell walls or can be detected inside a cell or outside, must check that.
    
    It is clear though that there are other binding locations on both this truncated and the actual viral S protein that interferes with other blood related functions. Hence the myocarditis and clotting issues that effect both Covid sufferers and vaccinated individuals.
    
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    November 23, 2021 3:15pm
    - Reid
      
      Yes I think you’re right Ed. This stuff is as new to me as it is to anyone here without a medical degree, and sometimes my mind conflates something else I’ve read with what I’m talking about when trying to explain it to someone else. That is how the virus enters the cell, the lipid packaging let’s it go straight into the cell. But it is true as I understand, that both the virus and the vax particle will only enter cells with ACE2 receptors, so there must be some kind of interaction there, whatever it is. I’m sure it was fully explained at 5:42:32 on some video I was watching a few months ago but I was prolly getting happily wasted at the time so I failed to fully take it in…
      
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      November 23, 2021 4:17pm
Maggy Wassilieff

The MOH has issued guidelines for Health professionals dealing with unvaxxed patients/clients

https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/documents/pages/ministry_of_health_position_statement_on_the_management_of_unvaccinated_individuals_in_healthcare_settings.pdf

It contains this warning for when the population is well vaxxed:

When there is high COVID-19 vaccine coverage (i.e., above 80 percent of eligible people are fully
vaccinated), transmission is more likely to occur from a vaccinated than an unvaccinated individual.
1
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November 23, 2021 9:34am
- Tony
  
  No shit???
  
  Just like there will be more people wearing seltbelts that are killed or injured in car crashes than those that don’t wear them… because nearly everyone wears a safety belt.
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:10pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is different data than what the MOH uses. They do NOT think like that //
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:58pm
- krazykiwi
  
  There is so much wrong with the MoH’s flaccid factoid that I don’t know where to begin. Nope. Can’t be bothered.
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:29pm
DeepBlue

In a Stuff article yesterday about the Traffic Light System, the closing para was: every businesses that uses the vax pass will need to ensure all employees are vaccinated, but they don’t have the employment legal teams of the likes of Warehouse.

So just like that JA has mandated businesses who must use the vax pass to stay open, and therefore mandated vaccines by STEALTH beyond health and education.

Has anyone else read about this? Do business owners know this? There must be so many smaller businesses with one or two unvaxed staff who now have to fire them.
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November 23, 2021 9:35am
- Batman
  
  No because the option for not using the pass system is still there. There are just different capacity limits on it I believe.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:59am
  - DeepBlue
    
    Batman, sorry but it is what I said. Today Wood announced the business just has to be deemed high risk and of course not using the Vax Pass is high risk in the government’s eyes.
    Stuff:
    “Staff who want to continue working in workplaces deemed higher risk by the Government, would need to have their first vaccination in 10 days time when the traffic light system comes into effect on December 3. It applies to those working in hospitality, events, gatherings, close contact businesses and gyms. Vaccination will be required for all workers at businesses that must use My Vaccine Passes to operate, or have the option of using My Vaccine Passes to operate with fewer restrictions.”
    
    High risk is every close contact gym less than 100 s.m floor area for example.
    
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    November 23, 2021 12:31pm
    - Batman
      
      That seems perfectly sensible. Gyms are rooms with people sweating and breathing on each other with questionable ventilation (I suddenly have less enthusiasm for my gym membership having written that line).
      
      It’s not like every library and outdoor playground is being categorised as high risk.
      
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      November 23, 2021 12:41pm
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      These Gyms, can members use the same toilet or do they go outside for a leak?
      No, I am not going to google it. The Govt should make these rules/laws clear.
      
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      November 23, 2021 2:03pm
Captain Mainwaring

So much for the global warming doomcasters.

https://www.msn.com/en-nz/news/world/dozens-of-ships-stuck-in-arctic-as-ice-freezes-early-in-reverse-of-recent-warming-winters/ar-AAR0n3c?ocid=msedgdhp
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November 23, 2021 9:47am
- Nigel Kearney
  
  Unusually warm weather is due to climate change. Unusually cold weather is just weather. An unfalsifiable hypothesis used to be regarded as a serious problem but is now just accepted as convenient and nice.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:10am
- mandk
  
  This can’t be true.
  
  Nobel Prize winner, Al Gore, told us that years ago that Arctic Ice would be but a memory by the year 2000.
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:41am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Yeah, but he is not from this Planet
    
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    November 23, 2021 2:04pm
curry4me

Rubbish PM: Episode 11.
Last week on Rubbish PM, Duncan Garner was double jabbed. Now he has the Wuflu.
With Three Waters, and He Peu Peu, is Nania Mahuta now Nania Mugabe?
Are farmers really thrilled that vegans decide their future?
Have the Mongrel Mob worked out they can make money getting people off P? Is it more than hey make selling P?
Was the gang tangi in Masterton a super spreader event? Will Pravda 2.0 be on to it?
John Key surrounded himself with smart people. What has Stalinda surrounded herself with?
Are Stalinda’s decisions driven by a need to be liked? Does she realize they are making her less liked? Are her baggy coats hiding something?
With it’s recent rise in the polls, will ACT be the second party by Easter? Will Grant roll Stalinda? Will the ‘wedding of the millennium still be on?
Did Angry Andy find Winston Peters at Pike River? Did Stalinda text him afterwards to ask if all the miners were double jabbed, and masked?
Does Stalinda have a new title? Te Fascinda O Aotearoa?
Do jet setting pollies really believe in ‘climate change’? Did James Shaw dine on deep fried Mars Bars, and Haggis? Was it a super spreader event?
Chloe Swarthick is in the preferred PM list. Is she going to roll Marama as ‘Co Leader with female bits’? Do the hard left need a new saviour since Stalinda let the Wuflu in?
Will the Police and Health sector collapse due to resignations? What about teacher shortages?
Does Stalinda have a plan? Will there be an announcement about an announcement? Will she do a walkabout in Mangere? Will Grant Robertson come with her?
Will Sunday’s Groundswell protests lead the news for the next week? Will we see flying pigs? Stay tuned folks!
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November 23, 2021 9:57am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ua5TXN_MN-c

China’s Winter Olympics could get boycotted by most countries.

There may be a boycott of the 2022 Winter Olympics. The recent disappearance of a famous tennis player may add fuel to the fire. [4:44. Couldn’t happen to a nicer presitator.]
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November 23, 2021 9:58am
curry4me

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcAcMW89jOQ

Vietnam has an economic weapon that can annihilate China.

It is high time that Vietnam considers the release of these reserves, by hurriedly eradicating all legal hurdles. Vietnam has a huge stockpile. They can use it as an economic weapon against China.
[4:38]
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November 23, 2021 9:58am
ABS4EVA

You really do have to ask after
Indonesia and the Philippines

Approved NOVAVAX

https://www.dailynews.com/2021/11/09/novavax-coronavirus-vaccine-simple-and-a-likely-pandemic-game-changer/

What is the hold up with?
EU UK NZ and AUs

I mean if this Pandemic is serious would this not
be given some URGENCY

or are other FACTORs involved?
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November 23, 2021 9:59am
- MCōs
  
  On the face of it two corrupt third world countries approving anything is no great endorsement.
  Are the big bosses of the authorities responsible for approving this vaccine driving round in flash new Mercs?
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:17pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Quite a few girls at tennis are 😀
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:07pm
    - Mike
      
      You’re sounding jealous now. I’m sure you could work a bit harder and save for a decent car.
      
      3 3
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      November 23, 2021 1:22pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        What’s on the menu tonite at your place milkey…..
        not Beef Jerky again?
        
        5 1
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        November 23, 2021 3:00pm
      - Mike
        
        Haven’t given orders to the kitchen staff yet.
        Please show some respect for DPF by observing his comments policy.
        
        0 5
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        November 23, 2021 3:59pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        Bet you were a little pimp at school.
        
        Not a ginga are ya? 🙁
        
        5 0
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        November 23, 2021 5:32pm
    - MCōs
      
      Owning a Benz is also de rigueur for the older Chinese/Thais who like to be thought of as successful in business, too.
      If they are in fact wealthy their kids buzz around in Ferraris & Lamborghinis. I used to discuss all this with a neighbour of ours who imported the cars second hand from Europe at huge expense.
      These cars would sit outside his house until the money changed hands. He had a mate who did they same and they borrow each other’s cars for a bit of spin out in the countryside.
      
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      November 23, 2021 4:12pm
      - Maggie Pie
        
        What model Benz your missus got Cossie?
        
        2 0
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        November 23, 2021 5:33pm
      - MCōs
        
        She’s not of Chinese ethnicity.
        In fact the part of Thailand she comes from didn’t even have streets & roads until about 30years ago. They all got around by boat.
        Anyone of means had houses on the river with private jetties from where the boat goes to Amphawa, now a tourist town.
        It’s on the Mae Glong River. There’s a restaurant of the same name in Epsom.
        
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        November 23, 2021 6:46pm
Benedict Yu

I was reflecting that only two months ago I was saying that it was doubtful that the Government would force venues to require proof of vaccination. And there were a couple of folk here suggesting that the Government should make it illegal for businesses to discriminate against the unvaccinated.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127068014/covid19-unvaccinated-workers-in-businesses-using-vaccine-passes-must-be-fully-vaccinated-by-january-17

I think I’ll give up making predictions. 🙁
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November 23, 2021 10:00am
- ClanMcleod
  
  Goalposts have never been moved so often and so far in history.
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:23pm
Maggie Pie

TESLA TRENDING

There might be 1 or 2 people here that don’t get it…..
but honestly, ya just GOTTA luv Elon’s sense of humor 😀 😀 😀

https://twitter.com/heydave7/status/1462805875156996101
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November 23, 2021 10:02am
- Frank the tank
  
  We should see if Elon wants to buy New Zimbabwe. Let’s be honest he looks more fun than our current dictator
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:33am
westernScientest

more confusion on mandates and passes:

https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/127068014/covid19-unvaccinated-workers-in-businesses-using-vaccine-passes-must-be-fully-vaccinated-by-january-17

Are they intentionally blurring the rules they are making up, or are they just that incompetent? Im a big fan of Hanlon’s razor but at some point it becomes hard to believe they are actually that incompetent.
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November 23, 2021 10:14am
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Nick Sandmann supports Kyle Rittenhouse. Disgusting how the media treat young men. Sandmann has grown up real fast.
Media, get your checkbooks out., you shit in your own nest.
https://rumble.com/vpkjqx-nick-sandmann-speaks-out-after-rittenhouse-acquittal.html?
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November 23, 2021 10:41am
Jack5

The Herald’s Simon Wilson doesn’t get a lot of agreement on this blog. He’s on target today criticising Labour’s Megan Woods and National’s Judith Collins and National’s Nicola Willis over their joint push of what some are already calling the slum enabling act.

Wilson’s talking of the Resource Management (Enabling Housing Supply and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.

This eliminates the single housing zone in our larger cities and allow three homes of up to three storeys on almost any site, without the need for a resource consent.

Wilson highlights what’s coming, including: while “up to three” dwellings can be built on any site, there are to be no minimum section sizes. You could put two extra dwellings on your section, or subdivide it into two, or three, or more, and put three dwellings on each new site.

Developers will no longer be required to consider sunlight, privacy, safe pedestrian access, access to nature, servicing and the interface with the street.

On Kiwiblog recently someone suggested Willis as a future leader of National. After this? C’mon.

How did Collins agree to this? There’s no upside for National. She has provided a shield for Labour from the public anger this legislation will create.
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November 23, 2021 10:53am
- Jack5
  
  Whoops! Didn’t see comments on this topic had started higher in the thread, but I don’t think they were appearing when I posted.
  
  ?Batman’s posting today, so that means we can’t blame him for any slow moderating, doesn’t it?
  
  However, Wilson supported on Kiwiblog. A day to mark.
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:19am
  - Batman
    
    There was a decent batch when I jumped on, which I’m working through.
    
    So yes some may appear later.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:21am
    - Jack5
      
      Good man, Batty.
      
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      November 23, 2021 11:32am
- lifesgood
  
  As a long time supporter of Collins she has lost me over this. To say I’m disgusted is an understatement. Has she lost her mind?
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:30am
- Reid
  
  Something that brings both Labour and National together is their mutual love for property developers and their political donations. Not least because a lot of MPs engage in the practice themselves: e.g. recall Helen Clark had a property portfolio when she was PM.
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:21pm
  - Mike
    
    Some MPs have found the best property investment is to buy a small commercial building and lease it to parliament for an electorate office.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:04pm
Surely Knott

I can’t get my haircut and Tamaki can’t host an outdoor picnic protest. But Black Power can threaten neighbours and have large parties without penalty and with the knowledge and acceptance of the government housing agency .

Will Black Power be able to have parties during the traffic light system? Is that a gathering so it’s approved? Or is it hospitality? Is Black Power an organisation and do they have to provide QR codes and contact lists and if not why not. If people can’t go to a pub or cafe under state laws will they instead go to gangs and gang parties which presumably won’t require vax passports. Maybe the gangs could provide black market hairdressers also.
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November 23, 2021 11:17am
- Tony Stuart
  
  Black Power, the Mongrel Mob, the Killer Beez (linked to several regional Covid outbreaks) and other gangs will continue to do what they bloody well want, because they know no one from the authorities will hold them to account.
  
  The moment Jacinda Ardern wrote out a cheque to Harry Tam’s outfit was the moment the gangs were officially legitimised by the New Zealand Government.
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:47am
- graham
  
  I notice that according to the Herald story, Kainga Ora is now paying for the couple to attend weekly counselling sessions and daily security patrols, and has offered to relocate them to an Air BnB at the taxpayer’s expense.
  
  So because Kainga Ora refuses to act as a responsible landlord and evict ‘tenants from hell’, we – the poor long-suffering taxpayer – get landed with even more bills. Not that I begrudge it going to this poor couple who have been terrorised, but it should never have been allowed to reach this stage.
  
  I also note that Kainga Ora is “trying to convince the offending tenants to move to another state house.” Said tenants are probably laughing their heads off at these KO morons.
  
  What a flippin’ shambles.
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:37pm
- surfing
  
  Get your hair cut and wallet and car stolen, all for the price of one!
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:49pm
Alan Wilkinson

I think it’s apalling Stuff hasn’t changed its name yet. There must be a Maori word for crap.
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November 23, 2021 11:31am
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  ‘Tutae’.
  
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  November 23, 2021 11:41am
  - kowtow
    
    Ti shitty.
    
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    November 23, 2021 11:51am
- graham
  
  Wharepaku.
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:28pm
- tf78
  
  Allan it’s He Paua Paua!
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:45pm
ABS4EVA

Deluded People actually think
when everyone is double vaxxed
it is over and we go back to their idea of
NORMAL?
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November 23, 2021 11:35am
Captain Mainwaring

Apparently the barcode-chinned one has blazed through about four countries already and there’s been nothing in the paid-for MSM about how any of it went.
Was it THAT embarrassing?
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November 23, 2021 11:40am
Maggie Pie

Do you know what I reckon?

I reckon in 20 years from now, we’ll all look back on this time and laugh.
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November 23, 2021 11:40am
- westernScientest
  
  Comrade, we will not be aloud to laugh in Cindy’s utopia
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:22pm
  - Mike
    
    Nor will be laughter aloud.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:19pm
  - MCōs
    
    Is that ‘alive’ or ‘allowed’?
    
    In my case I’m picking ‘alive’!
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:22pm
- Fuzzysnuggleduck
  
  Or sooner…
  
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  November 23, 2021 12:31pm
Yvette

Those who may serve the vaccinated?
The Government is releasing a new tool to help businesses assess whether they should be requiring workers to be vaccinated.
Workplace Relations and Safety Minister Michael Wood says the tool will be available from mid-December.
Meanwhile, workers covered by the My Vaccine Pass mandate will need to have their first dose by 3 December and be fully vaccinated by 17 January.

It builds on guidance and advice from WorkSafe, public health agencies, Business New Zealand and the Council of Trade Unions.
It has four criteria, at least three of which must be met before a business can require vaccination:
• How large is the space people work in
• How close people are to others
• How long they are near to others
• Whether they provide services to people vulnerable to Covid-19
Wood said the new process will not override risk assessments already done under existing guidelines, and all health and safety risk assessments will remain valid.
Legislation allowing the tool to be created and setting up a four-week minimum paid period of termination, as well as time off to get vaccinated, will be passed this week, he said.

“We’ve tested this with stakeholders and it’s received broad support, including from religious communities.”
This applies to hospitality, events, gatherings, close contact businesses and gyms.
https://www.1news.co.nz/2021/11/22/workers-covered-by-my-vaccine-pass-must-be-double-jabbed-by-jan-17/

Question: The ‘tool’ will be available mid-December (perhaps 15th?) to enable businesspersons to assess whether they and staff should be vaccinated, and it takes 45 days to be fully vaccinated (3 December to 17 January, above) so will any entity, determining mid-December that their staff need to be vaccinated, can not open with full staff until January 25 – heading on to the end of the usual school holiday period?
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November 23, 2021 12:07pm
dime

Geez, big thread today, this may get lost but here goes:

Looking for recomendations on NZ history books – the type that arent revisionist.

Time period – from when evil whitey arrived up until 1900.

cheers
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November 23, 2021 12:21pm
- Alan Wilkinson
  
  Books by FE Manning. Smart guy with no blinkers.
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:02pm
  - Fuzzysnuggleduck
    
    Yep, Manning’s ‘Old NZ’ is great.
    A lot of the contemporary authors are an enjoyable read, and grim tales, and a good antidote to the ‘Poor Maori, Whitey came here and ruined their awesome way of life’.
    
    Dime: revisionist stuff is written for the current zeitgeist and actually reads poorly, or even as patent manipulation, by those familiar with the original sources or events.
    James Belich was a mischievous sod who popularised the NZ wars (to his credit), but introduced quite a few myths and half truths and even slander in his books. On some points he was either just lying, or is a crap historian.
    BTW< from tested examples and discussion with Maori, I do not rate so-called "oral histories" in current times AT ALL. Oral history is not a precise art like in the day of the tohunga. Oral history today means "a brown person said so" and is somehow considered unassailable, even when photographs or documentary evidence can prove it is fiction. Some of it….actually sad, it is so bad.
    
    Good books for the NZ Wars, the original 2 volume series by James Cowan:"The New Zealand wars and the pioneering period" Vol1 & 2 are a good read, and the most complete account for ALL regions and little wars. Written with a fond reflection on the pioneer period and glossing over the nastiest stuff, but to its credit he interviews veterans on the Maori side personally too.
    
    Peter Maxwell's 'frontier' is a good read, for the flavour and tone, but he does inject a bit of colour into anaecdotes that are not strictly historical.
    Some books are a bit rare, but good reads if you can fine them, like the 1960s 'Te Kooti; general and prophet' book by W Hugh Ross.
    "Forest Rangers", by Richard Stowers, for a history of that unit in particular, very detailed.
    Autobiographies by colonial officers like Major Gascoyne or Captain Gudgeon are worth a read.
    And from a British officer's viewpoint, (later General) Alexander wrote "Incidents of the last Maori-War in New Zealand" in 1864, and 'Bush fighting" in 1874.
    "The Waikato war" by J Featon (1879) or 'The Maori King' by John Gorst (1864) are very close to the events they describe- but you can read past any obvious bias.
    
    One recent book that IS actually good, being a military history, is "Soldiers, Scouts and Spies" by Cliff Simmonds. Sober evaluation, not political, and his background is a NZ Army Colonel.
    
    And another poster mentioned Crosby's "Musket Wars"…yes, very important book on the real NZ holocaust, and I and recommend "Gilbert Mair: Te Kooti's Nemesis" from Ron Crosby also, as an excellent book.
    
    Any 20th century accounts of Captain Cook's journeys are generally going to be good, and sparing on the White Guilt disclaimers.
    And I found Proffessor Moon's various books on 1920s NZ are very good too, which shocking things seen by early pakeha.
    
    One I very rare tome I read recently, which was really macabre and controversial today, is "Moko; or Maori Tattooing", written by Maj General Godley in the 1890s, when he discussed what he saw in NZ, and had collected as many preserved heads as he coul,d for the sake of preserving the history.
    Pretty graphic and even disturbing stories in theree on the practice of preserved heads and tattooing from all aspects. The book has been critical in the re-emergence of Maori tattooing patterns in modern times – yet all the excellent work of preservation was by a former British officer, so you get the sense Maori artists are conflicted about him. But the book is written at a time when you can just take the stories and records for what they are: Facts, and put aside the modern day Feelz.
    
    Lots of good books around. These are the ones which pop in to mind.
    A shame the dribble I hear them telling my son in school during "Aotearoa studies", but he knows enough to smell the whiff of bullshit. I even called out one of the teachers on a supposed 'war crime' (which was fictional) and provided enough evidence, that they said they didnt really know the subject, and had just taken the details from a Stuff article quoting a modern revisionist historian. Urgh.
    I love NZ history, but I think the schools will be doing more harm than good from what material I have seen…….
    
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    November 23, 2021 4:19pm
- Mike
  
  I would start with Keith Sinclair’s general history, published about 1960, if one is suspicious of scholarship from the baby boomers onward.
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:13pm
  - MCōs
    
    He wrote a very informative biography of Walter Nash who I remember as a less than inspiring old one term Labour PM in the late fifties.
    He was a member of the Labour Party from from its inception in 1918 and an MP for Hutt from 1929 until his death in 1968.
    Keith Sinclair’s book traverses NZ history for that period and won the 1977 National Book Award.
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:39pm
- Bridgenag
  
  Late in the day for this and most will have seen
  
  Please read Ron Crosbie’s “The Musket Wars”
  
  Historic Facts: New Zealand in Maori is Nu Tirani
  
  Aotearoa Is a Fairy Tale Created By an English Colonial Surveyor in 1890
  The Historian April 10, 2021 10:00 am
  Introduction:
  
  If New Zealanders are to embrace, honour, respect, and trust the Maori culture the foundation of that culture must be based on the truth, not fairy tales.
  Anything less would be offensive and insulting and would dishonour the past memories and actions of respected Maori chiefs and elders, and prominent Maori politicians such as Sir Apirana Ngata.
  If New Zealand is to continue down the path of replacing the truth about Maori history with fairy tales that corrupt our young minds through indoctrination, we are no better than those whom we historically condemn for using propaganda to control their people like Germany in the 1930s!
  Historic Facts:
  
  1. New Zealand is NOT Aotearoa!
  · Fact:
  New Zealand in Maori; first documented account – ‘Nu Tirani’; 1840 – Treaty of Waitangi.
  Second article of Treaty of Waitangi and I quote just one example of the repeated name throughout the Treaty:
  ‘rights to own property of all the people of New Zealand’ – translated ‘tangata katoa o Nu Tirani’.
  · Question:
  Year 1840:
  If the Treaty of Waitangi (The Maori Translation) had the name of New Zealand wrong, why did none of the 500 chiefs who signed it object? The only objections raised were concern about giving up mana and sovereignty.
  · Fact:
  It wasn’t until 1890 that the first recorded occurrence of Aotearoa in New Zealand’s history appeared. In 1890, S Percy Smith (an English Colonial Surveyor) wrote a fictitious story on ‘Kupe’, in which he invented ‘Aotearoa’ as a name for New Zealand.
  · Fact:
  Year 2000:
  Ngapuhi leader Graham Rankin was provided both translations of the Treaty of Waitangi – he agreed both translations and their meaning said the same thing; therefore New Zealand is ‘Nu Tirani’.
  If those ignorant fools that want to continue using ‘Aotearoa’ as the imaginary made up name for New Zealand, invented by a British Colonial in 1890, then by all means proceed on the assumption of the following:
  A. That a binding referendum has been held to confirm that a majority of New Zealanders are in favour of using a made-up name.
  B. Royalties have been paid, or permission sought from the S Percy Smith family/estate for the use of that name.
  Otherwise, may I suggest that we stop reinventing history and the Maori language and honour the past, and the Maori ancestors, by teaching the truth.
  Use the TRUE Maori name for New Zealand as its recorded in 1840 in the Maori translation of the Treaty of Waitangi, and signed by 500 Maori Chiefs – that name being ‘Nu Tirani’, NOT Aotearoa!
  · Fact:
  Maori are NOT indigenous but are native to the land called New Zealand!
  Maori migrated to New Zealand in seven waka: Tainui, Te Arawa, Mataatua, Kurahaupo, Tokomaru, Aotea and Takitimu.
  Quote:
  ‘Let me acknowledge first that, in the whole of the world I doubt whether any native race has been so well treated by a European people as the Maori’
  Sir Apirana Ngata’s recorded speech at 1940 Treaty of Waitangi Centennial 7.16 min recorded mark
  As above, Maori neither originated nor naturally occurred in this land known as New Zealand, as they immigrated here via waka from their ancestral home (where they were indigenous), and are thus NOT indigenous to these lands.
  Yes, over time they have become native (as acknowledged by Sir Apirana Ngata) to these lands like the remainder of New Zealanders.
  · Fact:
  Maori ceded mana and sovereignty to the Queen of England! They did not enter into a partnership.
  · Background
  Year 1815 – 1840:
  Hongi Hika perpetrated the genocide and massacre of his own kind, as the instigator of the ravages of the musket wars and all that it embraced at that time – rape, slaughter, cannibalism and slavery. Decreasing the Maori population by up to one third during this period.
  Note:
  
  It is important to note the above as it is primarily the sole motivator for the Maori Chiefs to agree to ceding sovereignty, to escape the ravages of war, for peace and protection of their people and culture under the Queen.
  · Year 1839:
  Colonial Secretary Lord Normanby’s instructions to Captain Hobson (author of the Treaty of Waitangi):
  ‘If sovereignty will not be ceded, you are to walk away, as without it, Britain would have no legal basis for bringing order and peace to the islands.’
  Demonstrate that the Crown’s purpose was ‘sovereignty authority over’ those of the ‘aborigines (considered at the time) of New Zealand’, would agree to place themselves ‘under Her Majesty’s dominion’ and ‘the impossibility of Her Majesty extending to them any effectual protection unless the Queen be acknowledged as the sovereign of their country’
  Note:
  
  The Treaty of Waitangi would NOT exist if NOT for Maori ceding mana and sovereignty. It was also unlikely they today would exist after the events that transpired during the musket wars of 1815-1840.
  · Year 1840, Treaty of Waitangi
  Article 1: The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the other Chiefs who have not joined the confederation, cede to the Queen of England for ever the entire sovereignty of their country.
  Article 3: In return for the cession of the sovereignty to the Queen, the people of New Zealand shall be protected by the Queen of England and the rights and privileges of British subjects shall be granted to them.
  Note:
  
  The 1840 Treaty of Waitangi – Articles, there is no mention of ‘PRINCIPALS’ nor the mention of the word ‘PARTNERSHIP’. To suggest otherwise voids that said Treaty and any agreement held by it.
  · Year 1840, 5 February 1840
  A meeting with Maori chiefs took place with respect to the Treaty of Waitangi.
  At this point, a number of chiefs spoke, a summary of Colenso’s (Printer for the Treaty of Waitangi) recorded the account of the words of those that were opposed to the signing;
  · Te Kemara, Chief of Ngatikawa:
  ‘Health to thee, o Governor….I shall never say ‘yes’ to your staying. Were all to be on equality, then perhaps Te Kemara would say ‘yes’; but for the Governor to be up and Te Kemara down…..low, small, a worm, a crawler – no, no, no’
  · Rewa, Chief of Ngatiawake:
  ‘I will not say ‘yes’ to the Governor’s remaining. No, no, no, return. What! This land to become like Port Jackson’
  · Moka, Chief of Patuheka:
  ‘Let the Governor return to his own country, let us remain as we are’
  · Kawiti, Chief of Ngatihine:
  ‘I will not say ‘yes’ to thy sitting here. What! To be fired at in our boats and canoes by night! What! To be fired at when quietly paddling our canoes by night! I, even, I, Kawiti, must not paddle this way, nor paddle that way, because the Governor said ‘no’’.
  · Hakiro, appeared to speak on behalf of Titore deceased Chief of Ngatinanenane:
  ‘O Governor, I say no, no, no…..We will no have a Governor!’
  · Tareha, Chief of Ngatirehia:
  ‘thou, the Governor up high up, up, as this tall paddle’, ‘and I down, under, beneath! No, no, no, I will never say ‘yes stay!’’.
  · Wai, of Ngatiawake:
  ‘who claimed that trading conditions were unfair, also opposed signing’’.
  Note:
  
  No others spoke against it. Clearly from the above, Maori chiefs were very knowledgeable and astute, as they were aware of what they were giving up, and fully understood what ceding sovereignty meant as there was NO PARTNERSHIP. To suggest otherwise is an insult to Maoridom, their chiefs and ancestors.
  All the above eventually signed the Treaty, thus ceding mana and sovereignty.
  · Year 1860, July 1860 Kohimarama Conference
  Speeches by the Chiefs, many of whom had signed the Treaty 20 years before, reiterated their understanding of what the commitment entailed – respect and honour for the Treaty of Waitangi:
  · Wi Te Tete at Kohimarama:
  ‘Listen ye Pakehas, and ye Maori Chiefs! We have now become one people under the Queen’.
  · Hori Kerei Te Kotuku:
  ‘When you arrived, we were dwelling in ignorance, we were blind. First came Christianity, after that the Law. I saw that there was salvation for me. You appointed magistrates. We received them. It was during the time of Governor Grey that we first recognised the Queen’s authority. He said there is no other sovereign for us but the Queen. I did not receive the Law without consideration. I sought it carefully in the pages of scripture. I did not search in ignorance. I saw its benefits, and then I embraced it. Now the Queen is my sovereign.’
  · Te Ahukaramu:
  ‘These are the things which I desire. First, God: secondly, the Queen: thirdly, the Governor. Let there be one Queen for us. Make known to us all the laws, that we may all dwell under one law’.
  · Raniera Te Iho:
  ‘I offer my land, in the proper manner, to the Governor. True the land passes across to the Governor, but then I get my price for it. Should I afterwards stretch forth my hand after my land that would be wrong. I prove my allegiance to the Queen by parting with my lands. I give up my land to Queen Victoria, and to the Kings and Queens, her successors.’
  · Tohi Te Ueurangi:
  ‘Let the Queen be above all. I have nothing more to say’.
  Note:
  
  Again, at a totally separate date, Maori knew what they were giving up and fully understood what ceding sovereignty meant as there was NO PARTNERSHIP. Again, to suggest otherwise shows disrespect and dishonour for what the Treaty of Waitangi stands for.
  · Year 1926;
  Sir Apirana Ngata summarised the effect of the Treaty of Waitangi with considerable clarity, finality, and certainty:
  ‘Article 1 of the Treaty transfers all chiefly authority to the Queen forever, and the embodiment of that authority is now the New Zealand Parliament’
  · Year 1940
  Sir Apirana Ngata’s recorded speech at the 1940 Treaty of Waitangi Centennial is yet another example.
  ‘Let me say one thing, throughout the treaty, Maori handed over the mana and sovereignty of New Zealand to Queen Victoria and her descendants forever. That is the outstanding fact today, but if it not for the seal of sovereignty handed over to her Majesty and her descendants, I doubt whether there would be a free Maori race in New Zealand today.’
  Sir Apirana Ngata’s recorded speech at 1940 Treaty of Waitangi Centennial At the 5.40 minute recorded mark
  · Year 2000;
  Ngapuhi leader Graham Rankin was provided both translations of the Treaty of Waitangi and he agreed that both translations and their meaning said the same thing.
  The above highlights an abundance of evidence to support that Maori ceded mana and sovereignty, and knew what they were giving up and signing.
  If Maori were to not cede mana and sovereignty, then a treaty would NOT EXIST, under the clear instruction from the Queen’s Colonial Secretary Lord Normanby to Captain Hobson in 1840.
  Maori knew the benefits of ceding mana and sovereignty, as they would have peace, resources, and protection under the Queen, and not be subject to the ravages of war and genocide unleashed by Hongi Hika on his own kind who wiped out up to half the Maori population at that time (1815 -1840).
  Nationally, councils are entering partnerships with Maori based on inaccurate historic accounts, fairy tales, and lies. They are undemocratic partnerships that dishonour the Crown. They dishonour the Treaty of Waitangi and what it stands for and they dishonour Maoridom and their ancestors, by forming race-based policy and making unelected appointments.
  Partnerships that racially discriminate against ALL Non-Maori is a violation of Article 3 of the Treaty of Waitangi.
  Councils cannot be trusted as they have embraced this charade through what can at best be described as ignorance: a clear violation of their own Code of Conduct by not being truthful, honest, transparent, nor morally or ethically competent and clearly highlighting that they are not fit to administer or manage their respective districts.
  With councils and sympathisers embracing this misconception and misrepresentation of the word ‘partnership’ (as there is NO mention of the word ‘partnership’ in the 1840 Treaty), you are by default doing more harm to Maoridom, implying that Maori are not equal or capable, and thus require special assistance to be considered “not beneath” (quoting Maori chiefs who previously objected to the signing of the Treaty) the Queen and her subjects.
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:30pm
  - Yabster
    
    Post of the day.
    
    7 3
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    November 23, 2021 2:47pm
    - Captain Mainwaring
      
      That wasn’t a post. It was an essay.
      
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      November 23, 2021 3:08pm
      - KevO'Brien
        
        Sometimes the freedom to give more is to be welcomed.
        The content is excellent and a good backgrounder to the current Maori revolt where activists are being encouraged to take back the Treaty.
        
        The fight for our freedom is not just against Covid.
        
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        November 23, 2021 5:51pm
  - RdM
    
    Very nicely laid out. Thank you.
    Just one minor error (whether by you or a quoted author):
    It’s “PRINCIPLES” not “PRINCIPALS” in this context.
    
    3 0
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    November 23, 2021 5:54pm
- Maggy Wassilieff
  
  Richard Taylor 1854: Te Ika Maui: NZ & its inhabitants
  
  A.S. Thomson 1859: The story of New Zealand: past & present (Capper reprint 1974)
  
  Wm Swainson NZ & its colonisation
  
  L.M. Rogers (ed) 1961: The early journals of Henry Williams 1826-1840.
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:54pm
Maggie Pie

Had to larf….

My partner’s mum just phoned to say she’s printed out her ‘My Vaccine Pass’ and was thinking of getting it laminated.

Wanted to know if there was an easy way to change the DOB from 1947 to 1967 ?
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November 23, 2021 12:49pm
- MCōs
  
  You can only change it once.
  
  5 0
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  November 23, 2021 1:25pm
- Yvette
  
  Maggie
  On Mac, open PDF in Preview, duplicate, save copy as jpg. Open in Photoshop and alter to your heart’s content: DOB (your Mum’s preference) or expiry date. Print original size, or convert to PDF and save to your phone or whatever. :o)
  But do research to see how much the fine is that you risk.
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:28pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Thnx sooo much Yvette!
    I’ll send that thru…there may be someone at the RV with a Mac.
    (The fine wont worry her. She’s already spent over 50K on facelifts)
    
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    November 23, 2021 1:41pm
  - fernglas
    
    It is likely to be altering a document with intent to deceive, which is an offence under s258 Crimes Act 1961 and it carries a maximum of 10 years imprisonment. I suspect also that Police and Judges would not see it as just a bit of a prank given their current thinking. The age would perhaps become relevant when they start, as France has done, to insist that people “d’un certain age” must have boosters in order to be treated as fully vaxxed. If you then waved around a dodgy age to justify having only two vaccines it would kick in. Similar with changing the apparent 6 month expiry date for the domestic one. But don’t worry. By the time it gets around to that, the Government will have changed its mind. And Maggie Pie, facelifts and prison overalls just don’t work.
    
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    November 23, 2021 4:10pm
- Fletch
  
  The only problem with that is that the info on file won’t match the DOB info so the person checking may question it?
  
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  November 23, 2021 1:44pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    The person checking? Customs yes – cafe worker will not give a shit
    
    9 0
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    November 23, 2021 2:26pm
  - Maggie Pie
    
    Although she does have a Photo ID that someone made up for her.
    In fact when Ma got her first butt-implants, a Waiter mistook us for sisters. LOL!!
    
    5 1
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    November 23, 2021 2:53pm
- rangitoto
  
  That info is also encoded in the QR code so it would no longer match the clear text. You can’t easily alter the QR code as it is encrypted. You would need the private key to alter it. But then again who is going to check?
  
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  November 23, 2021 3:24pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    I have seen a program decrypt a QR code. The result was only a text block.
    I have been looking at using some myself.
    
    2 2
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    November 23, 2021 5:56pm
    - rangitoto
      
      Most QR codes are not encrypted they are simple encoding like a 2D bar code. These ones are actually encrypted data.
      
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      November 23, 2021 8:37pm
surfing

Government should tell us more about the people who die from ‘covid’.

Are they dying from covid, or, from the underlying condition that was going to kill them anyway?

So long as they’re not attaching names to cases, they’re not breaching privacy, so why not? It is maddening to me they do not release more details.
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November 23, 2021 1:47pm
- Fletch
  
  The latest death –
  
  The cause of the 40-year-old’s death was unknown and the coroner would determine whether it was due to the virus, the Ministry of Health said in a statement on Wednesday night.
  
  https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/nov/04/new-zealand-covid-positive-person-dies-alone-at-home-during-isolation
  
  Of course, that doesn’t stop the media letting people assume that he died from Covid when they report that a person isolating at home then died.
  
  ps, the Ministry of Health reported that same day –
  
  The death of a 40-year-old man who was isolating at home in Auckland with Covid-19 was not linked to the vaccine, the Ministry of Health has said in a statement.
  
  translation – it probably was ?
  
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  November 23, 2021 2:16pm
  - cmm
    
    It will be interesting to see what NZ stats end up like.
    
    In the US CDC stats, only 5% list no comorbidities and the average have 4 comorbidities.
    
    Some include trauma so likely were gunshots or car crashes or such.
    
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    November 23, 2021 2:58pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  There is no way the socialist control freaks will allow underlying conditions – [deleted] with the fear porn.
  Same as Covid antibody testing, never going to happen under these commies
  
  [mod. note: Unless you start moderating your posting language, I will be just deleting future examples. If you wish to complain,
  [email protected] ]
  
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  November 23, 2021 2:29pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Looks like I can not say that the NZ Govt are socialists or communists – when they are.
    What do they call that? Cancel culture or something?
    Everyone knows the truth but we can not be told the truth
    
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    November 23, 2021 3:21pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Taxpayer’s Union hat tip.
Santa’s Workshop mail. “What are we going to do with all these toys? There’ another one. Just wants a new Prime Minister”
Jaspinda will be getting coal …..
6 2
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November 23, 2021 2:35pm
In Vino Veritas

Some American news for Mr Farrar. Darrell Brooks, accused of driving an SUV into a Christmas Parade in Milwaukee, killing 5 people (to date) and injuring another 40, was out on bail. Now Milwaukee is a Democrat run city, with a Democrat DA, who has been pushing bail reform. What was Brooks on bail for? Well, that would be second-degree recklessly endangering safety, battery, obstructing an officer, disorderly conduct and, wait for it…… jumping bail. The reckless endangerment charge was for…. deliberately running a woman over after a fight!! Brooks was bailed for the outrageously low sum $1000 (part of the DA’s reform). You really couldn’t write this script.
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November 23, 2021 2:40pm
- cmm
  
  What, I’m shocked! He should come and live in NZ and the government would have given him $3M.
  
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  November 23, 2021 3:05pm
  - UrbanNeocolonialist
    
    And Ardern would put on some appropriately cringy cultural outfit, perhaps a dashiki, guessing she might not do black-face as that is now outre with wokester signalling progressives like her and ~~Trudeau~~ and apologise for oppressing him into performing this murderous act.
    
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    November 23, 2021 5:05pm
Maggie Pie

Now that Martin Devlin’s back in the job market, it would be a YUGE ratings-boost for Magic, if they got rid of that Danny Watson and gave Marty the slot.

Just saying….
9 1
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November 23, 2021 3:08pm
Maggie Pie

I wonder what it was ClarkE actually asked 😛

https://twitter.com/viewspotnz/status/1462531346765467650
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November 23, 2021 3:46pm
Fletch

Ivermectin works. Japan is the latest country to use it, seeing a 99 percent drop in cases.

Dr. Haruo Ozaki, chairman of the Tokyo Metropolitan Medical Association had held an emergency press conference on August 13, announcing some 18000 new infections daily. However, the death count has eased as compared to previous surges. In an interview with the The Yomiuri Shimbun on August 5, Ozaki spoke in detail about his opinion that Ivermectin should be used in Japan and said that his early calls for usage had seemingly not been heeded.

Japan had slavishly adhered to all the Big Pharma prescriptions, including quarantine, contact tracing, masking, social distance, but finally the pandemic had hit them hard after they started aggressive vaccination in May 2021. The results looked good initially, but in mid July they started rising again and on August 6 cases hit a new all time high and continued to rise.

Ivermectin was allowed as a treatment on August 13 and after 2 weeks the cases started to come down. In fact, they are now down 99 percent from the peak.

Since April 28, India medical officials started providing hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin to its massive population. As India is the major pharmaceutical manufacturer in the world, they are naturally geared for mass drug distribution.

Much like the state of Uttar Pradesh in India, parts of Bangladesh, and places like Argentina and Mexico, Ozaki had called for the immediate release of Ivermectin in Japan.

https://freewestmedia.com/2021/11/03/japan-sees-huge-drop-in-cases-after-it-switches-to-ivermectin/

It’s maddening that there is a cheap, effective treatment for Covid, yet authorities refuse to use it. Makes me so angry.
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November 23, 2021 4:06pm
- cmm
  
  Even disregarding Invermectin, and other off-label drugs, there is something that every single doctor knows, but very few are telling people.
  
  Many in NZ (and in Aotearoa too I suspect) are low in Vit D. This is especially true for darker skinned people. It is also true for obese people. It is doubly true for dark skinned, obese people.
  
  It is well known that Vit D is a building block for the immune system and helps for all sorts of infections, diseases, etc – not just CV19.
  
  Vit D also helps bone strength and reduces the damage caused by falls in the elderly (as well as ricketts).
  
  None of this is in any way controversial.
  
  And yet, how many people, especially brown skinned and obese people, are being advised to increase their Vit D?
  
  1000 or 2000 IU of Vit D costs around 15 cents a day.
  
  Something like that could have a huge benefit.
  
  A lot of dark-skinned doctors were dying during the first CV19 wave in London. After they started taking Vit D that changed.
  
  I am not a doctor. This is not medical advice. Discuss with your GP or do your own research to decide.
  
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  November 23, 2021 6:04pm
- krazykiwi
  
  One word: hubris. Our leaders have red-lining hubris and would see millions die before admitting any shortcoming. In truth, the consumer of political discourse is partly to blame having spent 40+ years punishing any wrongness rather than rewarding humility.
  
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  November 23, 2021 6:05pm
- septic skeptic
  
  Our MOH seems pretty convinced that Panadol will do the trick! I’m hoping for a royal commission. And maybe some criminal prosecutions.
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:55pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Anyway, had enough for one day. I am not the prefect’s best friend today. Be back later, like after 5.30.
BBQ and sun. Salmon filets, fresh chopped veg fried, yeah all that salad. 3 tuis love to watch this, we put fruit out but I think they just like being in trees.
North Shore is good today. New Zealand not so good
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November 23, 2021 4:17pm
Fletch

Ardern says businesses don’t need to scan the passports. MoH says they do.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300461414/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-says-vaccine-passes-dont-need-to-be-scanned-ministry-of-health-says-they-do
11 0
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November 23, 2021 4:28pm
- Bobba Fret
  
  She has never been good on details even the important ones. What’s GDP again?
  
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  November 23, 2021 4:57pm
- UrbanNeocolonialist
  
  That’ll be the “single source of truth” operating as intended then
  
  9 0
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  November 23, 2021 4:57pm
- Benedict Yu
  
  It is incredible. If that holds everyone will have a vaccine pass whether vaccinated or not 🙂 🙂 She is so gullible.
  
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  November 23, 2021 6:11pm
- westernScientest
  
  At what point does “Cindy says so” become a legal defence? can you really have the prime minister going to the podium of truth and telling businesses to do something illegal?
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:49pm
  - KevO'Brien
    
    You can, Ardern has her own self assigned regal authority.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:53pm
Fletch

Australian politician (not sure who) frothing at the mouth and calling anyone who supports or “gives comfort to” those against vaccination or the vaccine mandates is “anti vax” whether they have been vaccinated or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPYe-cwNjPY
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November 23, 2021 5:06pm
- krazykiwi
  
  That is Michael Gunner, Chief Minister of the Northern Territory. Try watching that display without sound, imagining a little mustache and a lectern being banged on.
  
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  November 23, 2021 5:58pm
  - Fletch
    
    Yup, I was going to make that comparison…
    
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    November 23, 2021 6:27pm
- westernScientest
  
  it sounds a lot like the american leftists and the “white black” people such as Candace Owens
  
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  November 23, 2021 9:47pm
Benedict Yu

Oh My GOD. What a mess.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/300461414/covid19-nz-jacinda-ardern-says-vaccine-passes-dont-need-to-be-scanned-ministry-of-health-says-they-do
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November 23, 2021 6:09pm
- ross.mc
  
  This’ll be fun to watch. The outcome will tell us whether it’s bureaucracy or the government making decisions and running the country.
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:12pm
  - Captain Mainwaring
    
    Did you say ‘running’ the country or ‘ruining’ the country?
    
    6 0
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    November 23, 2021 8:46pm
    - westernScientest
      
      it has to be the latter surly…
      
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      November 23, 2021 9:43pm
krazykiwi

BERLIN — Germans will be “vaccinated, cured or dead” by the end of this winter, Health Minister Jens Spahn said Monday

Gotta hand it to the krauts. They don’t do anything by halves.
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November 23, 2021 6:12pm
surfing

On Brian Tamaki……”You have been skating on very thin ice today,” the judge said. “I have seriously considered whether you should be remanded in custody.”

Didn’t the judge say that last time?
7 0
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November 23, 2021 6:12pm
Cobolt24

Two days in a row Tova on 3 is speculating about National leadership probably in an attempt to get Judith rolled. Yesterday about Simon now Luxon.
9 0
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November 23, 2021 6:13pm
Maggie Pie

RANDOM IMPERTINENT QUESTION….

Is ‘Apostle Brian’ seeking martyrdom?

“Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of”
– Jesus H. Christ
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November 23, 2021 6:41pm
[email protected]

According to Stuff, Countdown will require all its 21,000 staff to be vaccinated against Covid19 by the middle of February or get sacked.

If this happens I will shop elsewhere.

Take the jab or get sacked is coercion, the practice of persuading someone to do something by using force or threats.
8 1
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November 23, 2021 7:49pm
- Captain Mainwaring
  
  So when Pak ‘N Save and New World join in (as they will) where are you going to shop?
  Don’t you get it? It’s to protect everyone (including you).
  
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  November 23, 2021 8:50pm
  - westernScientest
    
    The local green grosser, the butcher, the dry goods store (binn inn etc.) supermarkets are for convenience but are not strictly necessary. Also a number of online only providers.
    
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    November 23, 2021 9:38pm
- krazykiwi
  
  Coercion, and also illegal. The difference is the company can afford big, hairy lawyers where the checkout operator can not. Remind me what role unions presume to play?
  
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  November 23, 2021 10:09pm
  - Reid
    
    kk just to let you know, I did post a reply to my post above citing many studies at about 4 PM but at 9 PM DPF or someone else deleted the response with no explanation.
    
    Just to let you know.
    
    Hence that message from another mod below.
    
    I just wanted him to explain his mod policy on items which contradict official govt policy. I had thought his blog would allow those indeed encourage them, but it seems I have misunderstood something about truthiness.
    
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    November 23, 2021 10:39pm
Reid

[DPF can be contacted via [email protected] rather than by blog publication. mod.]
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November 23, 2021 9:05pm
ABS4EVA

Australians who vote for Dan Andrews

ARE ZOMBIES

Seriously they have to be seen to be believed

KIND of

Like Cindy Voters except Worse

It is hard to believe that the Human Race
could regress like it has but you just have to
Witness the Communist Police State of Victoria
once in your life

Labour Australia’s FREAK SHOW
1 0
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November 24, 2021 12:24am

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