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January 8, 2024 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 08 January 2024

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mikenmildagain

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A more balanced look at the controversial departure of the Harvard president:
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/jan/07/tribalism-and-hypocrisy-dog-claudine-gay-furore-neither-tackle-issues-it-raises
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January 8, 2024 8:01am
- Nukuleka
  
  Thanks for the larf, Mikey. ‘The Grauniad’ and ‘balanced’ within the same utterance.
  
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  January 8, 2024 8:13am
  - Che Guava
    
    Here here. All we demand is balance, isn’t it Nukuleka. Where there is no balance, you tend to get a distinct dogmatism and a one-sided ideological blindness. I’ve actually found that KB is one of the most balanced sources of information and discourse on the Israel and Palestine issue.
    
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    January 8, 2024 11:44am
- david in Aus
  
  For context and balance, the president of Stanford resigned over plagarism/data fraud. The president of UPenn resigned over anti-semitism. Both relatively quickly.
  
  The president of Harvard remained the longest despite the most egregious examples of anti-semitism and plagarism. Race and gender should not be used as a shield for the indefensible.
  
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  January 8, 2024 8:26am
- Scott
  
  I thought the three women that were in charge of the three universities were abject in their failure to condemn anti-Semitism at those universities. Yes they may have given lawyer type answers. But they all seemed smug and unconcerned about the rhetoric that was coming from their universities and the attacks on Jewish students at their universities.
  
  So I think they all deserve to be fired. However I have no doubt that Che will be here shortly to inform us this is all part of a vast Jewish conspiracy.
  
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  January 8, 2024 8:42am
  - Matt Long
    
    The WASP lady resigned almost immediately, “Penn’s Liz Magill lasted less than a week afterward.”
    The Woman of Colour found that even with DEI her position became untenable, The liberal Jew; how does one condemn a woman that says calling for genocide of her own race is only a situational issue?
    https://thehill.com/homenews/education/4387146-mit-harvard-penn-antisemitism-stefanik-gay-kornbluth/
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:04am
    - Che Guava
      
      Man. You look at this situation objectively, and you have to ask yourself how is it any different in principle from Stalin’s purges of those who were designated “insufficiently pro-communist” or some other such crime against the establishment? Stalin would “disappear” university presidents who displeased him too (probably using something like plagiarism as his justifying pretext, lest he look too capricious).
      
      And, like in the Soviet Union, most Soviet citizens probably thought such ideological purges were completely normal. They’d probably login to Soviet-era blogs and celebrate how another good for nothing anti-Stalinist thought criminal had been dispatched to Siberia. “Good riddance!” they’d say. “It was the moral thing to do!” they’d assure themselves. Nothing to do with Stalin flexing his political muscles and enforcing what was good for Stalin, though.
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:28am
    - Che Guava
      
      On the matter of DEI, which so many commenters denounce but seem to have very little real understanding of its intellectual roots and its intended goals, prominent Jews are calling for DEI to be scrapped (they can do that sort of thing, you see) because it turns out that Jews haven’t been accepted as an “oppressed minority” deserving of special protection, like was intended. Turns out, the indoctrinated devotees of DEI think that Jews are White, and Jews aren’t getting the victim status they intended.
      
      https://www.jns.org/diversity-equity-and-inclusion-cannot-be-fixed-abe-foxman-says/
      
      “Abe Foxman and David Harris—who led the Anti-Defamation League and American Jewish Committee respectively for a combined half a century—see diversity, equity and inclusion programs in higher education as irredeemable, the two leaders told Jewish Insider recently.”
      
      “Yet Foxman, who was the ADL national director for 28 years—stepping down in 2015—told the publication that DEI, which he said is based on the “faulty premise” that all white people oppress all people of color, “cannot be fixed.””
      
      “Efforts by communal Jewish organizations to include the Jewish community or soften its impact on antisemitism have failed,” he said. “It needs to be scrapped and replaced by a vigorous implementation of our civil rights laws that are color blind, and apply equally to all.”
      
      ““DEI was developed to eliminate bias but sadly it created bias.””
      
      ““I don’t believe that outside efforts, however well-intentioned, that nibble around the edges or simply seek to add Jews to the DEI agenda, address the heart of the problem,” he said. “DEI today poses a major challenge to liberal understanding of American societal aims, so the goal of rethinking it conceptually is far more urgent than just trying to get along with it.”’
      
      So, in summary, even though DEI has for years severely undermined, demonstrably disadvantaged and stoked hatred against Whites, none of this was sufficient for someone to step in an stop it. On the contrary, that was the intention of DEI.
      
      Only when Jews have been (mistakenly, on the premises of DEI doctrine) lumped in with Whites as “oppressors” and therefore disadvantaged by DEI ideology (or more accurately, not advantaged by DEI), Jewish leaders are now calling for it to be scrapped.
      
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      January 8, 2024 12:39pm
  - Che Guava
    
    I think that I have made my case enough already, and I have done so very rationally, and nothing has been said in response that would make me change my mind in the least.
    
    One thing I note though, in defence of my “vast Jewish conspiracy” argument (and I note you add the word “vast” in an attempt to make the idea somehow sound less plausible – I see you, Scott) is a question that seems to go unasked, and likely unnoticed, seeing how deeply entrenched the concept is in the public psyche.
    
    Let’s zoom out to the level of fundamental principles.
    
    The question is: why is “condemning anti-semitism” (anti-semitism meaning criticisim or non-support of Jews) even seen as a self-evident first principle to begin with, and those who don’t do it must apparently be reprimanded?
    
    “Oh no, person X didn’t condemn the criticism or non-support of Jews! Let’s fire her!”
    
    Think about that for a minute: don’t you think that’s a very unusual formula?
    
    As a thought experiment, replace “Jews” with any other group, and you’d probably conclude that that other group had a lot of influence, so much so in fact, that someone could get fired for displeasing them, and so ingrained would they have made this equation in the minds of people, that nobody would stop to even think that it’s actually a very weird state of affairs.
    
    Consider:
    
    “Oh no, person X didn’t condemn the criticism or non-support of Russia! Let’s fire her!”
    
    You’d reasonably conclude in this counter example that Russia held a lot of sway, would you not? So why are we so resistant to the claim that Jews tend to hold a lot of sway in the US? The obvious reason the claim is such a taboo is not because it’s false, but because it’s true.
    
    This raises the further unasked question: why are they so desperate to deny the fact of significant Jewish influence? Shouldn’t they be proud of themselves for having such influence? Is the reason they like to downplay their influence because they wouldn’t be thanked, they’d be blamed?
    
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    January 8, 2024 11:10am
    - Scott
      
      Che – my dear old thing. Correct me if I’m wrong but here is a summation of your views with regard to the Jews:
      – the Jews have an inordinate influence in America.
      – The Jews were responsible for 9/11
      – the Jews were responsible for having the three university presidents fired. They would not have been fired on their merits (or lack thereof).
      – The Jews are currently committing genocide in Gaza.
      – The security problems in Israel are the result of Jewish attitudes and actions.
      – The Nazis are not as bad as they have been painted.
      
      I also think you believe that the world would be a better place if Israel did not exist?
      
      For a Christian I would suggest that your views are pretty out there? Like when you go to church do other people share your views? Most Christians I know are generally pretty supportive of Israel.
      
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      January 8, 2024 1:30pm
      - Che Guava
        
        That’s actually not a bad summary of my views. Do they contradict what may be called the “popular” opinion? Sure, but so what? The conflict is only because the popular opinion generally doesn’t reflect reality, not just on this issue but on so much more.
        
        It isn’t that my worldview is wrong, it’s that the popular worldview tends to be unreflective of social and political reality. In other words, most people are wrong, not the minority who are correct.
        
        That’s one of main reasons why I argue that we don’t actually have a system that is democratic in any substantial and practical way, simply because public opinion is so heavily curated and is formed by interested parties who want you to believe the world is a particular way, when it is not. You cannot live in a society that is so saturated with very selective “news” and “information” that is designed to make the masses of people think and act in ways that are beneficial to those few who disseminate said news and information, and call it democratic. It is just the appearance of a democratic sovereignty, not the reality. The more people are aware of the arrangement, the more agency they can have.
        
        As for the Christians you know who are “generally pretty supportive of Israel”, they have no reason to be so.
        
        As I have also argued before, Judaism and Christianity are mutually exclusive. This is why the history of Jews and Christians has always been antagonistic. If you are a Jew who, by definition, rejects Jesus, then it’s pretty hard to claim that Christians who believe Jesus is the son of God have an affinity with Jews. This is ridiculous on it’s face.
        
        As a Christian, I don’t hate anyone. This doesn’t mean I have to accept certain behaviour or certain beliefs. Judging people on both is, far from being anti-Christian, it is required of Christians. I hope Jews convert to Christianity because that would be best for them, given how misguided they are.
        
        To bring it back around, believing that there is such a thing as Judeo-Christianity is an exemplar of what I mean by a popular belief being completely false. There is no such thing as Judeo-Christianity, but it benefits Jews for Westerners (i.e. historically Christians) to believe they share a common interest and cause with Jews. Despite clear differences, I actually feel more affinity with Muslims than I do with Jews.
        
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        January 8, 2024 2:15pm
      - Jack5
        
        Che Guava’s “… As I have also argued before, Judaism and Christianity are mutually exclusive … “
        
        – First, the Christian Bible’s Old Testment and the Jewish Bible share so much (first link below).
        
        – Second, Jesus Christ was a Jew.
        
        – Third, Christianity, Judaism, and Islam are often known as the Three Religions of the Book, because they share so much. This quote comes from the book in the second link below:
        
        ” … the intellectual worlds of the three Abrahamic religious traditions have interacted for centuries, and by doing so have created similar shared patterns of thought in dealing with crucial religious concepts such as the divine itself, creation, providence, laws both natural and revealed, such problems as the origin of evil and the possibility of salvation, as well as defining hermeneutics, that is to say the manner of interpreting their sacred writings …
        
        Old Testment and Jewish Bible:
        
        https://library.biblicalarchaeology.org/sidebar/the-jewish-bible-and-the-christian-old-testament/
        
        AND:
        
        https://www.cambridgescholars.com/resources/pdfs/978-1-4438-4043-9-sample.pdf
        
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        January 8, 2024 3:40pm
      - Che Guava
        
        I agree with all of that, and none of it contradicts anything I have said.
        
        My point is that Judaism and Christianity went in very different directions from the death of Jesus, and because they went in very different directions, mutual antagonism ensued.
        
        Post-Christian Jewish doctrine is largely found in the Talmud, whereas Christian doctrine is found in the New Testament and the Old. The Old Testament is part of scripture because it is a preface to the New, in that Jesus was the fulfillment of the Old Testament, therefore all of that finished. This is what Christians believe, and this is what Jews reject. That is the point of departure.
        
        So principally, Jews completely reject Jesus, whereas Christians believe that Jesus was God made manifest. How anyone can reconcile this fundamental point of difference is beyond me.
        
        In addition to the contents of the Talmud as it pertains to denouncing Jesus, we can easily conclude that Jews reject Jesus by one simple and self-evident fact: they are not Christians, ipso facto, they reject Jesus.
        
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        January 8, 2024 3:58pm
      - Local Miller
        
        So Che, do you accept the scripture that Jesus died to bring salvation “first to the Jews and then to the gentiles”? The first “Christians” were in fact Jews, and it was only when God told Peter that he was to preach to the gentiles (Vision of the sheet with unclean animals and his being told to kill and eat) that gentiles started becoming Christians.
        BUT there was no such thing as a “Christian”. The first use of this term came quite late in the first 100 years after Christ died, literally “little Christs” because this was the way the believers lived.
        
        So what happens when a Jew accepts Jesus as their Messiah? Do they suddenly stop being Jews?
        
        I think your concept of Jew vs Christian is flawed. The two are 100% compatible. After all it was the Jews who had the promise that a Messiah would come. There are now Jews who still don’t accept Jesus as that Messiah, and there are Jews who have accepted Jesus as that Messiah, and there are “non-Jews” who have (and haven’t) accepted Jesus as Messiah.
        The fact that the Church (Christians if you want) have moved away from what the New Testament church taught about what it meant to accept Jesus is what has caused the radical issues between some churches and the Jews. It was this separation that Hitler used to motivate the extermination of the Jews, calling them “Christ Killers”.
        The contention that being a Jew “who by definition rejects Jesus” is a completely ridiculous statement. I’m aware of many Jews who accept Jesus as their Messiah and i have links to a Hebrew Christian community here in NZ, and am myself of Jewish decent. You contention that one cannot be a Jew and accept Jesus a Messiah contradicts the events of the New Testament.
        
        I’m aware that there is a strong believe in some Christian circles that puts forward much of what you seem to believe. I’ve spent some time reading it and I’m sorry but it doesn’t stand up to scripture.
        
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        January 8, 2024 7:31pm
      - Lenticular
        
        Che is actually right re: (rabbinic, or mainstream) Judaism being mutually exclusive with Christianity.
        
        After Jerusalem got totalled by the Romans in A.D. 70, as foretold by Christ, the only Jewish sects left were Christianity and the Pharisees. The Sadducees got killed and the Essenes dwindled. The Pharisees inherited the name Judaism and subsequently codified their teachings in the Talmud, which is about 3 times as large as the Bible. The Talmud teaches that Christians are Avodah Zara, i.e. idolators and you cannot be a Jew and a Christian.
        
        Mainstream, normative Judaism as we know it today is rabbinic Judaism and excludes Christians as Jews. This is completely uncontroversial within Orthodox and Conservative Judaism.
        
        Ironically, the Christian viewpoint is that one can be a Jewish Christian, while the (Rabbinic) Jewish viewpoint is that there is no such thing.
        
        Until a recent Israeli Supreme Court case, any Jew that professed faith in Christ became ineligible for emigration to Israel. That’s right, an atheist Jew could go there, but a Christian (or Muslim) Jew was no longer a Jew.
        
        I would invite anyone who even thinks anything I’ve said here is contested to read: A) The Wikipedia page on Rabbinic Judaism, B) The Jewish Encyclopedia article on Christianity, or C) Peruse threads relating to Jesus or Christianity mainstream Jewish forums like r/Judaism, Mi Yodeya, or websites like Chabad. Heck, read the Wiki page on Maoz Tzur, or Jesus in the Talmud. One Jesus the Nazarene is said to be burning in excrement forever for misleading Israel.
        
        The hostility to Christ and Christians is really quite striking, and if the boot were on the other foot, there would be screams of antisemitism. Imprecatory prayer against Christians is actually part of the daily liturgy among Orthodox Jews, which is pretty appalling.
        
        I expect (?) that Che forgets one rather important point – the NT spells out that while Jews who reject Christ are enemies of the Gospel (St Paul’s words, not mine), Christians are not to respond in kind, as God has not rejected his people completely or forever. And when Christ returns, the debate will be settled, and all Israel will be saved. Romans 9 – 11 spells the tension out very elegantly, especially 11.
        
        I’m happy to provide citations for any specific factual point that anyone feels like disputing.
        
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        January 8, 2024 10:05pm
- In Vino Veritas
  
  A more balanced look. Yeah, sure Mike. The Guardian hasn’t been balanced since Karl Marx. “It takes some chutzpah for those willing on Israel’s devastation of Gaza in the name of “self-defence” to deem Palestinian resistance illegitimate”. That spells out the Guardian’s position. The Government of Gaza attacks Israel, Israel must not attack Gaza. Because civilians. You know, the civilians that openly support their Government. Balanced my arse. And on Gay, there are a significan number of Harvard Alumni that disagreed with her selection to the position of President. First, the selection process was the shortest ever, even though there were 600 applicants. Second, Gays academic record is thinner than any President before her. There were legitimate concerns about her selection from day one. There is no doubt that she was a DEI selection. Gay was sacked because of her ineptitude (I would say unwillingness not to condemn the Government of Gaza, and uphold Israels right to respond as it sees fit), in dealing with one single question. Which led to a donor revolt, which of course, Harvard cannot ignore. The plagiarism issues were just the icing on the cake. And of course Gay and her supporters respond as you would expect DEI hires to respond. She should have been laughed off the campus.
  
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  January 8, 2024 8:45am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Marx wrote for the NY Daily Tribune, not the Guardian. His journalism is still well worth a read:
    https://www.amazon.com/Dispatches-New-York-Tribune-Journalism/dp/0141441925/ref=sr_1_34?crid=2VY80V6H6UP9D&keywords=karl+marx&qid=1704659334&sprefix=karl+marx%2Caps%2C298&sr=8-34
    
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    January 8, 2024 9:30am
    - Simon
      
      Marx:
      
      “The Jewish [Mod – deleted] Lassalle who, I’m glad to say, is leaving at the end of this week, has happily lost another 5,000 talers in an ill-judged speculation.”
      
      https://marxists.architexturez.net/archive/marx/works/1862/letters/62_07_30a.htm
      
      Its not really worth reading. Or did he tone down a bit for the NY Tribune readers and other snowflakes?
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        This is what reading Marx is really like:
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XiJxQYge0s
        
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        January 8, 2024 10:53am
      - Che Guava
        
        Marx was a Jew himself, of course, yet was nonetheless very critical of them. But still, what would he know about Jews? Maybe it was a matter of ideology however, and his low opinion of Jews was simply due to his hatred of the biggest capitalists, many of whom happened to be Jews.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:40am
      - Jack5
        
        Friedrich Engels, Marx’s closest collaborator, was a businessman and capitalist.
        
        In Manchester, one of Britain’s leading industrial cities when Britain still led the Industrial Revolution, Engels ran the cotton mill of Ermen & Engels. By night he was a political thinker and activist.
        
        With Marx, Engels wrote the Communist Manifesto, published in 1848.
        
        Manchester was the birthplace of what became the “Guardian” newspaper.It dropped “Manchester” from its title in 1959.
        
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        January 8, 2024 12:31pm
- cmm
  
  Despite my better judgement I read that.
  
  I don’t see anything controversial in her departure, She was completely the wrong person for the job.
  
  What should be far more controversial was her appointment.
  
  How did someone with a fake academic history get appointed to the top slot of a prestigious university?
  
  Of course we all know the answer to that: in their rush to have their first black president, the university overlooked all her shortcomings.
  
  The question is this: will they learn from the experience? Will they appoint people on merit in the future?
  
  I’ve seen the same in business too. One of my major customers really goes out of their way to do the diversity stuff and also have occasionally overlooked shortcomings in female and black hires. More than once this turned into a mess requiring a protracted and expensive process to “let them go” without being sued for racism etc.
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:08am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
    Hardly a ‘fake academic history’.
    
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    January 8, 2024 9:30am
  - gravedodger
    
    A once prestigious university, typo perhaps?
    
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    January 8, 2024 9:45am
  - Simon
    
    “How did someone with a fake academic history get appointed to the top slot of a prestigious university?”
    
    Harvard isnt a prestigious university anymore its at the heart of GAE which took a body blow with Gay’s disposal.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:11am
    - Keith White
      
      And hiring Ardern.
      
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      January 9, 2024 5:07am
  - wsk12345
    
    Well they took Ardern on the face value of “be kind”. She was clearly a diversity hire because she didn’t get there on competence or achievement.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:19am
    - Sacha
      
      No. Ardern was chosen because she was young, and ‘pretty’ and a complete change from the trad male Leader who would lose the Labour Party the election.
      She had absolutely no talent for, or experience of, leadership in a democratic country.
      She did not have the native wit to survive – and neither did the hordes of women who voted for her – she was them! When I questioned her credentials on an FB group, I was roundly chastised by women who felt that a woman would be a good PM for this country. When I suggested therefore, that maybe Judith Collins deserved a chance as leader for the National Party I was howled down – she was clearly too intelligent for them, and old as well.
      We allowed women to call the tune here for long enough.
      Maybe the Coalition is on the right track with 3 blokes in charge.
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:57am
      - Don Beckett
        
        Calling Ardern pretty is a huge stretch.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:41am
      - Paulus
        
        When Ardern comes back into New Zealand politics soon somewhere obscure, we will see that the Labour Party % will rise as their acolyte women come back on board.
        Chippy will not be happy but he will leave soon anyway.
        
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        January 8, 2024 1:07pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  The Guardian. Enough.
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:19am
  - Simon
    
    The Guardian. Yep strictly for the programable.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:13am
- Stellaboxer
  
  Mikenmildagain always seems to have hidden due to low comment ratings is he frightened of low comments? There’s no need to keep hiding mike low comments won’t hurt you.
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:18am
  - Sacha
    
    It’s the readers who give him the red down ticks which eventually hide the comment. You can still read them –
    
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    January 8, 2024 11:00am
    - Stellaboxer
      
      Yes Sacha I understand that having been here for a good few years. It was an attempt on my part of humour.
      
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      January 8, 2024 6:48pm
- rjay
  
  Thanks. The article is more balanced than one would expect. It makes the point that various misdemeanors/ failures are unacceptable but notes that who they are unacceptable to changes from side to side of the political spectrum depending on other agendas in play. Effectively don’t be surprised when you have been a pot calling the kettle black to find out that the kettle replies in kind.
  However , the article seems to point out, the issue isn’t about the blackness of the pot or kettle, but rather who is the person lighting the fire in the first place.
  
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  January 8, 2024 11:11am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Exactly. Reminds me of those who think Biden is senile, but Trump is a genius, or vice versa. in reality, both are incapable of presidenting effectively.
    
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    January 8, 2024 12:33pm
    - plc
      
      So true
      
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      January 8, 2024 2:16pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  So balanced they simply censor people whose comments don’t support their lefty narrative turd polishing. They aren’t balanced. They are simply pathetic.
  
  [Mod – fixed]
  
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  January 8, 2024 3:51pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    Thanks Mod 🙂
    
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    January 8, 2024 4:46pm
- Stellaboxer
  
  Mickey hiding again lol
  
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  January 9, 2024 8:52am
slightlyrighty

In 1977, a singer called Kellee Patterson released a funky little song called “If it don’t fit..” It’s one of those songs that sticks in your head if you have ever heard it, and the lyrics included this….

If it don’t fit, don’t force it
Just relax and let it go
Just ’cause that’s how you want it
Doesn’t mean it will be so

I think it’s a great analogy to the DEI debate, where the forced inclusion of certain groups, just because that is what they want, is actually counter-productive.

Diversity is welcome, but just let it happen naturally, and it will be even more welcome. If it is forced upon us, it generates the wrong responses.
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January 8, 2024 8:16am
- lifesgood
  
  When is someone going to come up with the brilliant idea that people are people and drop this ridiculous diversity nonsense. If you are well qualified and a good fit for the job well and good whatever your colour, sex etc. And if that means that all your leaders and CEOs are white men, white women, black men, black women, so be it.
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:23am
  - Jake Dee
    
    It’s classic “Machine Politics” a certain public goods are given out to factions who support the regime in return for their continued support.
    This is why a few black and brown faces in prominent positions are so useful, it’s a relatively low cost way of making those minority groups feel they are being represented.
    If there was an explicit quota, saying for example a set number of electricians or heart surgeons must be of ethnicity X then people would see through it as utterly stupid. But they do it anyway through obfuscation.
    
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    January 8, 2024 6:05pm
    - Keith White
      
      Well, we already have unequal access to heart surgeons if the patient is not of the preferred ethnicity. And whether or not NZ people see through it, they are accepting it.
      
      It is quite nice to be working again in an environment where the only triage question is “what is the clinical condition?”
      
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      January 9, 2024 5:11am
Chuck Bird

It was a great final of the woman’s tennis.
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January 8, 2024 8:19am
- Steve Todd
  
  Oh, Chuck, how could you!
  
  As I pointed out at General Debate on Wed 20 Sep 23, the plural of ‘woman’ is ‘women’ (pronounced, ‘whimmen’).
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:21am
  - David Garrett
    
    Steve T: Quite right Sir! Good to see another grammar/usage Nazi on our favourite blog.
    
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    January 8, 2024 2:21pm
    - mawm
      
      Why did you capitalise “sir”?
      
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      January 8, 2024 4:03pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Thanks, David. I appreciate that.
      
      Unfortunately, on this blogsite, it’s pretty much a losing battle. As you well know, for some reason (which I won’t speculate on here), the message just doesn’t get through.
      
      We battle on!
      
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      January 8, 2024 4:06pm
- Dudley Quaffquaff
  
  But nothing compared to yesterday’s Hearts vs Magicians T20 match. You don’t often see a win from a side that’s four wickets down and needing 45 from the last three overs
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:32am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yeah, good finish that one. Super Smash is quite an even competition.
    
    7 8
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    January 8, 2024 9:53am
    - Opie
      
      But it’s no substitute for international cricket which seems to have been canned in favour of a very second tier domestic competition
      
      7 3
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      January 8, 2024 10:11am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        NZ has 5 T2os v Pakistan, starting this week, two tests x South Africa next month, then 3 T20s and 2 tests v Australia.
        The women are less well served, just 5 T20s and 3 ODIs v England in March and April.
        
        5 9
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        January 8, 2024 10:46am
      - Tauhei Notts
        
        Women’s sport.
        If it’s not Beach Volleyball I don’t watch.
        
        10 5
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        January 8, 2024 11:02am
      - Tony Stuart
        
        After being on the road for around five months, the Blackcaps players will have benefitted from a couple of weeks off international cricket. And of course the Pakistan series couldn’t start until after Pakistan finished playing in Australia at the weekend.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:32am
Matt Long

It must be a huge relief to China’s neighbours that commenters here can reassure them that China is not an aggressive empire builder.
https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/chinas-biggest-land-grab-carves-into-ancestral-areas-of-bhutans-royal-family-4811168
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January 8, 2024 8:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.
  Among the assorted nuttiness on display on this blog, I can’t say I have noticed much support for the Beijing dictatorship.
  
  4 49
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  January 8, 2024 8:36am
  - kevn
    
    mma… NZer’s had a long 6 year taste and didn’t like it. At all.
    
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    January 8, 2024 8:48am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Luckily. Labour was voted out and couldn’t complete their plan to collectivize agriculture and liquidate the kulaks.
      
      5 20
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      January 8, 2024 9:32am
      - Paulus
        
        A Labour coalition (Greens, Maori and Media Party) will be back in three years time.
        Media Party are the leaders by far in total denigration of the new Government because they will not crawl to the media, and are already daily going at anything, whether truthful or not, to portray their position to the people.
        Look at how the rogue and feral media this morning are slandering the new Minister if Police for not stopping the effective gang rioting in Auckland over the weekend.
        Watch as Ardern will be back, embedded in Labour, shortly after her PR so called wedding.
        
        16 7
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        January 8, 2024 10:01am
      - Local Miller
        
        MMA, you have me confused. I want to uptick this because you are right, and I want to downtick because I suspect you are being sarcastic in your own way.
        
        12 3
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        January 8, 2024 10:11am
    - MCōs
      
      As you know,
      , President Xi sends a Christmas card to John Key every year because they’re mates
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2022/10/sir-john-key-dollops-praise-on-china-in-chinese-state-media.html
      Also Simon Bridges thought the CCP was just wonderful
      https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/09/simon-bridges-sings-communist-party-s-praises-in-interview-in-china.html
      Now, as everyone knows the Nats are propped up by the agrarian sector in NZ , which in turn is propped up by trade with China.
      It’ll take a bit more than the mishandling of the Uighur or the shenanigans in the South China Sea for the present or any government to poke a stick at China
      In the unlikely event of China invading Taiwan what will Foreign Minister Peters do?
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:31am
- Bloody Dago
  
  Ya reckon…? What is this then:
  https://cairnsnews.org/2024/01/02/china-moves-in-to-take-over-australian-solar-power-projects-in-813m-deal/
  If it looks like a Peking Duck, if it walks like a Peking Duck, its generally Chinese empire builders, the Aussies are inviting in a Trojan Horse IMHO. What could go wrong hmmmm?
  
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  January 8, 2024 4:37pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    Another variation on the same old story and it has the same old answer.
    If Australia (or anywhere else) wants to make a solar plant (or anything else) without Chinese capital, technology or products, then fine do it.
    Your products will be slower, more expensive and worse, maybe by a little, maybe by a lot. meanwhile those who do co-operate with China (African, Russians Central Asians or whoever) will be bringing their goods to market faster, cheaper and better. Squeezing you out of the market and eating what you though should have been your lunch.
    The rules of the market have not flipped into reverse just because one player is Chinese.
    
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    January 8, 2024 7:03pm
- Jake Dee
  
  So after reading the article I see that various Indians say that China is encroaching on Bhutanese territory but Bhutan doesn’t.
  
  “India’s biggest concern, though, may be the future of Bhutan’s ties with China.
  “Bhutan is slowly shifting in the strategic orbit of China and there is not much that India can do, except if a new security agreement is signed between New Delhi and Thimphu,” leading Tibetologist Claude Arpi told NDTV last month.
  There are no signs of any move in that direction”
  
  These seem like fair comments. India is being outplayed on ground, so they take it to the info-space.
  
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  January 8, 2024 6:30pm
Bridgenag

A summary of the evidence against the COVID vaccines
Here’s a quick summary of the key pieces of evidence that taken together show that the COVID vaccines are unsafe and that the medical community should not be trusted.

https://open.substack.com/pub/stevekirsch/p/a-summary-of-the-evidence-against?r=1aj1bv&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email
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January 8, 2024 8:19am
- Matt Long
  
  Looks like whatever you take you die, Hydroxy chloroquine caused 20,000 deaths according to a Meta Study.
  Just goes to prove we need to clamp down on alternative medicine next time WHO calls a pandemic according to the article.
  Heaven knows how many deaths it causes as an anti-malarial.
  https://www.politico.eu/article/hydroxychloroquine-could-have-caused-17000-deaths-during-covid-study-finds/
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:31am
  - mawm
    
    Hydroxychloroquine “could have”. It’s BS.
    A study they did to try to prove HCQ was dangerous where they used very high doses and commenced it too late in covid showed no adverse effects such as Long QT syndrome. Because HCQ is listed amongst the long list of drugs that can cause Long QT the media has been beating this dead horse in the hope they can prove Trump wrong. Millions of people have been given hydroxychloroquine either as a prophylactic or as a therapeutic and not died from it.
    
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    January 8, 2024 4:16pm
TripeWryter

That story disappeared pretty quickly.
I refer to the opinion piece written in The New Zealand Herald by Stephen Hoadley, once an Associate Professor of International Relations at the University of Auckland, and Honorary Captain, Royal New Zealand Navy.
I read his piece on the state of the New Zealand armed forces – contra David Fisher’s piece last week that asserted our military was in dire straits – about 6.30am.
I came back at 7.45am to check something and found it had disappeared off the web page.
You can Google ‘Stephen Hoadley’ and it comes up.
Honorary Captain Hoadley paints a less despairing picture of New Zealand’s military than David Fisher did.
But he might be a bit optimistic about the Governor-General’s powers to call up reservists and recently-former personnel. They’d love that, I’m sure.
And who says HMNZS Aotearoa is the [Royal] Australian Navy’s tanker of choice?
Good on them if they are. When I was in the Navy we were encouraged to be better than the rest to make up for our lack of numbers.
The other thing that impressed me was Dr Hoadley steadfastly got something right.
HMNZS Canterbury. HMNZS Aotearoa. HMNZS Manawanui.
No ‘the’ HMNZS. But as an honorary captain in the RNZN and with a daughter who is (or was) a naval reservist lieutenant-commander he would know that ‘the’ – AKA the definite article – does not precede HMNZS, HMS, HMAS, HMCS …
For some reason ‘the’ has become embedded in the minds of our journalists. They all do it and it’s wrong.
It has always bemused me that David Fisher – who purports to be the Herald’s defence and security specialist – does not already know that.
He writes ‘the’ before HMNZS …
It annoys sailors but they’re too often too polite to point it out.
As a chief reporter – a retired WW2 major – once told me: if you get the little things wrong people will wonder what else do you get wrong?
A teenage relative of mine went into the armed forces last year. He came out near the top of his basic training and his instructors wanted to put him forward for officer training.
He demurred. He was 18, he said. He wanted to find out a bit more about himself, how the service worked, and how the world worked before he could feel confident about ordering someone into harm’s way.
I thought it was the right response. He loves where he is and I have no doubt he will be an officer in time.
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January 8, 2024 8:19am
- mikenmildagain
  
  I’d like to read that, but it is paywalled.
  Appreciate your point re ‘the HMNZS’. The other tell is when people use HMNZS consecutively for a group instead of HMNZ Ships X, Y, etc.
  Maritime capability is the most important thing. Good that we are getting the Poseidons and new Hercules, but we really need another frigate or two and, even more importantly, people to crew them.
  I expect the current government will produce nice capability plans and then neglect to fund them.
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:50am
  - TripeWryter
    
    Here you are, mikenmildagain.
    All but the heading and the stock pic of ‘the’ HMNZS Taupo …’
    
    By the way mma, I don’t down-tick you. I admire how you turn up and argue with your detractors and scoffers most days.
    I don’t often agree with you but you add variety.
    
    OPINION
    
    Is the New Zealand Defence Force in “dire straits”? So asserted the front page headlines of the NZ Herald (January 3). Granted, this is an overdue wake-up call. But it needs historical context and situational qualification.
    
    First, the challenge of retaining skilled personnel is as old as the NZDF itself, indeed as old as every defence force in the democratic neo-liberal world. In NZ, one can identify a proximate cause in the advent of Rogernomics in the 1980s. Labour’s neo-liberal policies set in motion an acceleration of private sector pay increases that outpaced those in the public sector. NZDF specialists are now paid up to 15 per cent less than civilian counterparts. Little wonder they migrate to the private sector, or to the Australian Defence Force.
    
    [Mod – please just post a brief part of the article and the link. Please also don’t bypass the article owners paywall]
    
    Stephen Hoadley: New Zealand Defence Force under stress but far from ‘dire straits’
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:11am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Thanks for that.
      
      8 6
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      January 8, 2024 10:48am
    - TripeWryter
      
      Mod: OK. I take it that’s for future?
      I normally wouldn’t breach a paywall/copyright (it’s a bit like denying royalties to an author) but it occurs to me that The New Zealand Herald still charges us a subscription while they retread old work.
      Anyway …
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:57am
- Master Mariner
  
  Yep NZ Media were calling armed pirates on a skiff a navy ship and navy personnel .
  Where, In reality they were armed pirates probably Somalian on an outboard powered Skiff.
  This was off Yemen recently.
  They tend to copy an overseas article and embellish it with a bastardised NZ slant.
  Pretty piss poor all the same.
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:35am
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/environment/climate-news/133477250/council-climate-committee-slow-off-the-mark
One question which should be asked is:
” has this Marlborough District Council climate change committee been paid for doing nothing for the last 15 months ?”.

I believe that local body councillors are paid for belonging to committees.
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January 8, 2024 8:20am
- Nukuleka
  
  Another question that should be asked is, ‘Does the Marlborough District Council even need a ‘climate committee’?
  
  52 3
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  January 8, 2024 8:27am
  - Taieri
    
    ‘Does the Marlborough District Council even need a ‘climate committee’?
    ——–
    
    Yes, it does. A climate committee is and indispensable part of each and every council, without which, the said council could not exist, let alone operate. The world is boiling!
    
    22 6
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    January 8, 2024 8:43am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Indeed, With current Climate Emergency , The very least you need is a climate committee.
      Should be a Emergency Climate committee at the very least and put aside all mental health issues from panicked residents.//
      
      11 2
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      January 8, 2024 10:38am
- iMP
  
  Busy troughing
  
  28 2
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  January 8, 2024 8:28am
- Gravelroad
  
  No.
  Elected Councillors there are paid a salary, not on a per meeting attendance basis (unless it is for something extra such as a hearings panel appointment).
  Might be different at large city councils.
  
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  January 8, 2024 8:33am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    I believe some councils pay extra to committee chairs, a way for mayors to reward supporters and punish opponents.
    
    15 17
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    January 8, 2024 8:38am
  - Taieri
    
    Elected councillors are being paid salary, which is augmented by additional functions such as being in charge of committees. For example a committee “chair” at DCC is being paid $90,979, while an “ordinary” councillor gets only $72,783.
    
    Why do they pay so much to a piece of furniture is another story altogether…
    
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/480662/dunedin-councillors-get-heated-but-pass-new-pay-structures
    
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    January 8, 2024 8:41am
  - Matt Long
    
    Most councils pay a meeting allowance and have associated meeting costs, so if your council has a committee that holds no meetings, it’s likely saving you money, unless the council staff are running amok without oversight.
    
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    January 8, 2024 8:47am
- NeverMindTheBollocks
  
  If they haven’t met, how do they know whether they’re for or against climate change?
  
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  January 8, 2024 8:34am
imalwaysright

Maggie Barry giving the ordinary worker grief again.
Entitled bully.
She has a history of similar behaviour at Parliament .

https://www.1news.co.nz/2024/01/07/maggie-barry-misunderstanding-led-to-police-being-called-to-flight/?utm_source=newsshowcase&utm_medium=discover&utm_campaign=CCwqMwgwKioIACIQzDPJ6yZyEV-jbDiMzev8qioUCAoiEMwzyesmchFfo2w4jM3r_Kow5Z3oAjC37pMD&utm_content=bullets
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January 8, 2024 9:08am
- Ghost
  
  Sounds like a small misunderstanding about her phone. Obviously nothing more than that as police did not do anything and the pilot was happy for her to continue her flight
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:22am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    Yes, the police are often called onto aircraft to resolve small misunderstandings.
    
    11 8
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    January 8, 2024 9:34am
    - Nickc2
      
      Yes, they are frequently called to resolve differences of opinion between an Aircraft Pilot and Co-Piot. //
      
      10 2
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      January 8, 2024 10:10am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Even a dumbarse like me can tell the difference between a phone and a bag.
    I wonder what really happened?
    
    15 3
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    January 8, 2024 9:44am
    - OlderChas
      
      I believe Barry’s comment “…I switched it to flight mode and placed it….” is a clue?
      See Humai’s comment at 10:03.
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:20am
  - Gravelroad
    
    I have done a fair amount of flying round the country side (work related) – albeit not recently.
    I cannot recall any occasion when the Police were called to address a situation related to passenger behaviour.
    For the Police to be called, over and above airport security, indicates an incident that might involve a crime – rather than just a bit of a tantrum over a phone.
    Otherwise, why the need to call the NZ Police to sort it?
    
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    January 8, 2024 9:47am
    - Ghost
      
      So was she removed from the flight? No
      She was allowed to continue to fly, which in itself shows it was minor. No crime committed, but nice try to insinuate such
      
      Police are called because that is their job, not airport security
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:04am
  - newview
    
    The attendant was likely overzealous (a bag is a bag) even if it is on a string around your neck. Why does she have it in a bag around her neck is a better question. No one else feels the need to do that.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:06am
    - Ghost
      
      I’ve seen a few elderly who wear their phones on a necklace or bag around the neck.
      
      9 2
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      January 8, 2024 10:28am
    - imalwaysright
      
      New,
      Maybe overzealous, but I would say they get fed up trying to protect the stupid from themselves.
      In this instance the passengers stupidity was accompanied by an unhealthy dose of arrogance.
      
      The attendant is responsible for ensuring the passengers are safe and compliant and preparing a plane for takeoff is not the time to try to appease an overgrown spoiled brat.
      
      I would rather an overzealous person running the aircraft than a yeah nah near enough is good enough type that is all too prevalent in this society.
      
      Barry should be banned for a year to adjust her attitude.
      
      She’s a pest.
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:37am
      - Ghost
        
        And should the countless other people I’ve seen over the years who have told the cabin crew they will put their device away in a minute once they’ve finished grabbing something work related, that the cabin crew have had no problems with also get banned?
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:43am
      - newview
        
        IAR Agree, she has an arrogance about her. I still don’t really get the around the neck thing. If she had to do that why not tuck it out of sight down the shirt front or blouse out of sight. Can’t help some people and trouble follows them around.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:58am
      - Ghost
        
        Near view, people wear their phones around the neck, what’s wrong with that? You can buy a pouch for it or a necklace for it, it’s not something that only she does.
        
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        January 8, 2024 1:53pm
    - artemisia
      
      No pockets. It’s a girl thing.
      
      9 2
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      January 8, 2024 12:10pm
- kevn
  
  ima.. Just a ‘minor’ (40 minute) misunderstanding.
  She said.
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:23am
  - imalwaysright
    
    Yes kevn,
    Also odd that the only explanation in the article of what happened is barrys.
    
    How long does it take to understand the instructions of a flight attendant?
    
    If police are called to an aircraft someone should be disembarking in cuffs and charged.
    
    If an old lady can be frog marched from the Otaki New World supermarket for wearing a t shirt they didn’t like then surely a washed up ex tv hack could be evicted from what is supposed to be a secure environment governed by international law.
    
    24 2
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    January 8, 2024 9:42am
    - kowtow
      
      ‘If police are called to an aircraft someone should be disembarking in cuffs and charged.’
      
      Wow , fascism and lack of due process to the fore here .
      
      6 7
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      January 8, 2024 9:59am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    40 minutes of her fellow passengers’s lives that they’ll never get back
    
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    January 8, 2024 1:34pm
- kowtow
  
  Bollocks .
  
  I wonder how much of an issue the activist , anti democratic msm would have made of this piddling minor affair had the evil white conservative ex MP been a Green/maori pardy ex mp/ minister.
  
  To those who reckon it ‘s such a “federal” case as a Plod was involved , think how much the large corporations and many govt type organisations are so quick to get the “Feds” involved in our lives as a simple bullying /intimidation tactic.
  
  The final word was that of the Capt’s and he seems to have been happy to let her fly .So no big deal.
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:58am
- Humai
  
  I was on that flight.
  
  1) She was asked to put the phone into flight mode and remove it from her neck in preparation for takeoff. She brusquely argued that “she was just downloading something”. Therefore, technically, she failed to comply with crew instructions.
  
  2) In reply, the senior cabin crew member quickly escalated the situation, had a stern discussion with the passenger then reported the incident to the captain.
  
  3) The crew members deliberated in the cockpit for some minutes and a police officer arrived to join the discussion.
  
  4) After about 15-20 minutes, the passenger was invited to the “principal’s office” (the flight deck) to speak to the captain.
  
  5) The passenger returned to her seat afterwards, suitably reprimanded.
  
  6) Ten people connecting to international flights almost certainly missed their connections as a result.
  
  7) Once airborne, total flight time was normal – headwinds/turbulence were not a factor.
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:03am
  - Clyde
    
    Humai, I’d believe you rather than the entitled ex TVNZ hack anyday. I note that she composed and distributed “her side” of the story to jump the gun and head off any annoying MSM attention.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:14am
  - kowtow
    
    Sounds like ” the senior cabin crew member ” who quickly escalated the situation needs to learn some passenger handling skills .
    
    ‘Ten people connecting to international flights almost certainly missed their connections as a result.’
    
    Leaving so little time to make such connections sounds careless .Not Barry’s fault and surely ANZ crew need to be more careful about “escalating” issues into casers whereby other “clients” get buggered about.
    
    Still sounds like a huge beat up.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:24am
    - Ghost
      
      If this was a labour mp, a greenie, or a Māori mp it would have not been escalated. It wouldn’t have made the papers.
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:41am
    - kiwikidsnz
      
      Stop making weak excuses for entitled onanists.
      
      11 2
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      January 8, 2024 10:55am
      - kowtow
        
        Stop playing into the hands of the Marxist media.
        
        11 4
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        January 8, 2024 11:07am
  - MCōs
    
    I was on a ThaiAir flight once leaving Bangkok and a well to do Thai gentleman was instructed in English by a diminutive Thai female staff member to turn off his phone
    He pulled social rank and refused
    She leaned across his family and said something in Thai in hushed tones through grated teeth
    He turned off his phone
    Everyone around about sat up straight in their seats, buckled their seat beats, and prepared for takeoff
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:48am
    - NZer In Exile
      
      The thought of a Thai prison probably instantly corrects a lot of bad attitude!
      
      4 1
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      January 8, 2024 4:51pm
      - MCōs
        
        Thai gentleman of a certain social standing are very unlikely to go to prison
        
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        January 8, 2024 5:06pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    And herein lies the truth of the matter.
    Thanks for that.
    
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    January 8, 2024 11:03am
  - Liberty
    
    “Ten people certainly missed their flights.”
    International report in time is recommended 3hr.
    The reported 40min delay is a long time for a little chat with the Captain.
    It all sounds a bit dubious.
    
    4 2
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    January 8, 2024 2:26pm
- Matt Long
  
  Maggie Barry, Susan Devoy, Laurel Hubbard’s father, all people that tarnished their image by holding public office, really Mike is the only person who is still a shining beacon of self righteousness left to us.
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:22am
- kowtow
  
  ‘ordinary worker grief again.
  Entitled bully.’
  
  A ‘senior cabin crew” member is not an “ordinary worker” . Air crew have extensive training but also extraordinary powers and the backing of the law ( national and international) and the ability to involve the police , at the drop of a hat who at such airports are constantly and immediately available ( something not accorded to us mere Pleb citizens) all over what sounds like a dick measuring contest .
  
  I wonder who the “entitled bully” really was in this extraordinarily minor affair , which has been turned into a character assasination attempt by our left wing , activist media pardy.
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:38am
  - mikenmildagain
    
    FFS, all she had to do was turn off her phone and do as instructed, as every other passenger does.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:50am
    - kiwikidsnz
      
      Quite right Mike.
      
      15 1
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      January 8, 2024 10:56am
    - All_on_Red
      
      Agreed
      Departures of aircraft shouldnt be delayed because you want to ‘download something’
      Rather arrogant behaviour
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:02am
  - MCōs
    
    Maybe so, but I’ve never seen a Bobby on plane
    Meanwhile
    Back in 2018 hapless Phil Twyford was fined for using his cellphone at an inappropriate time
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/political/361419/phil-twyford-fined-500-for-using-phone-on-flight
    Kiwiblog wasn’t going to let that go by unnoticed
    https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2018/07/twyford_pinged_500.html
    
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    January 8, 2024 11:07am
    - peterwn
      
      She may still be charged in court. The incident was sufficiently serious that Air NZ is legally obliged to file an incident report with Civil Aviation. That report would probably state that she refused a crew instruction to immediately switch her phone to flight mode. That is an absolutely valid crew instruction which is not open for argument. They may well decide to prosecute and fair enough.
      At a guess she backed down and stopped arguing at the last minute when she realised she was about to be chucked off the flight. Perhaps she took things too much for granted having enjoyed ‘Gold’ status for some years as a MP.
      After reading about airline incidents I have decided I would never argue with the crew but if need be take the matter up later. The Japanese crash where the crew got everyone off safely, the success most probably being that the passengers followed instructions, together with this incident has strengthened my resolve NEVER to argue with cabin crew or ground staff. More so because Air NZ staff have helped me out on three occasions for which I remain grateful.
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:58am
      - Terry Dalee
        
        CAA won’t prosecute for a isolated event. Your legally required to report certain events under safety reporting rules mainly for statistics and regulatory monitoring.
        If the CAA see a pattern of repeat offending, then yes they’ll probably escalate it.
        But in this case, it will be reported for statistical monitoring and no further action taken.
        
        Air NZ on the other hand are entitled to do whatever they want, including a ban from travel for a period, Koru club cancellation etc. Highly doubt it would go that far. It’ll will probably be a sternly worded warning letter.
        
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        January 8, 2024 7:21pm
- Master Mariner
  
  Ill take a stab in the dark and assume she was in an emergency row and playing with her phone during pre flight safety briefing.
  Good on flight attendant Id say.
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:46am
  - peterwn
    
    Sir Robert Jones actually got chucked off a Air NZ flight for not removing his headphones to listen to the exit row briefing. He retaliated by purchasing a private jet.
    
    11 2
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    January 8, 2024 12:14pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      So, his 60+ seconds of entitled ‘petulance’ cost him, what, $10M?
      
      Sounds to me like a classic case of cutting off your nose to spite your face.
      
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      January 8, 2024 2:33pm
      - peterwn
        
        Precisely.
        
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        January 8, 2024 3:23pm
      - All_on_Red
        
        He bought a Citation Mustang
        Probably around 2,5m
        He wont have to wait to check in and can leave when he likes.
        He can certainly afford it.
        Good on him
        https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/luxury/70864065/sir-bob-jones-buys-private-jet-and-takes-aim-at-infantile-air-nz
        
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        January 8, 2024 6:16pm
  - Humai
    
    Front row, starboard side – 2 delta.
    
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    January 8, 2024 1:06pm
    - peterwn
      
      Interesting – she would either have Gold status or Koru membership to sit there or for that matter any seat forward of the exit rows. Ordinary passengers (even with Silver status) do not get a look in with these seats.
      
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      January 8, 2024 2:06pm
      - Sponge
        
        Thats not correct in my experience. I am only silver nowdays and I get those seats all the time.
        
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        January 8, 2024 2:07pm
- NoFax
  
  When someone is doing their job, like in this situation, it’s best to follow her instructions. I used to fly a lot more than I do now and I used to get a little nervous when I saw people using their phones before takeoff etc. However, it then dawned on me that if it was really serious, passengers wouldn’t be allowed phones on the plane at all. I’ve even left my phone on by accident the entire flight – to date no plane has crashed because of a passenger’s phone. I’m sure someone here will explain how the phone can do x, y, z to the plane but given the millions of people flying with their phones and nothing to date – I think it’s just theatre, like taking off one’s shoes at security.
  
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  January 8, 2024 1:32pm
  - peterwn
    
    Airlines and authorities do not want the chance of a freak mishap even though modern avionics are made as resistant as possible to interference from phone signals. Also a phone at high altitude is troublesome with respect to mobile networks as the phone interacts with many more sites than a phone at ground level. This can cause congestion with the parts of the network that deals with phone location and routing which may degrade service for other users.
    
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    January 8, 2024 2:13pm
    - Ghost
      
      that happens at low altitude, not high.
      
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      January 8, 2024 2:41pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Rural cell towers have a range of about 30kms I believe.
        
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        January 8, 2024 4:54pm
      - Ghost
        
        Another issue with in-flight cell phone use is the possibility of overloading the cell towers on the ground. When you’re flying at low altitudes — that is, during takeoff and landing, which are considered crucial phases of flight — your phone is connecting to multiple towers at a time as you move. Given all the passengers in the sky at any moment, that could certainly be a burden on the network near particularly busy airports. (Once you’re at cruising altitude, however, you’re probably going to be out of range of the towers, so your phone’s battery will drain faster as it attempts to connect to nothing.)
        
        Article
        
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        January 8, 2024 5:01pm
  - Terry Dalee
    
    Your right, one phone seems to have minimal effect. However, a entire cabin of them, no one is sure.
    The 5G spectrum does interfere with radio altimeters and the FAA issued an alert last year but they’re slowly working through that problem.
    I’ve seen the primary flight display (PFD) flicker a few times once on the ground with a cellphone active on a call but the shielding on the PFD was found to be faulty. Would hardly be the end of the world but annoying none the less..
    
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    January 8, 2024 7:29pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Stop Co-Governance. Julian Batchelor.
Bring back severe penalties for Treason.
Also a good item by Amy Brooke. Labour knew they were leaving NZ a dog’s breakfast.
Politicians and Bureaucrats need to be punished, or they just keep doing it with immunity.

https://stopcogovernance.kiwi/blog/the-way-labour-exited-government-shows-us-why-they-must-never-be-allowed-back-in-they-ought-to-be-formally-charged-with-treason/
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January 8, 2024 9:12am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Given no New Zealander has ever been convicted of, or even charged with, treason, it is laughable to suggest such a crime needs a more severe penalty than the life sentence already provided for in the crimes act. Are all the items on that blog so loopy?
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:38am
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So the minefield of concealed concealed costs over 3 waters by Robertson, Ardern, Mahuta, and the silent Labour caucus is not treasonist?
    Liars and crooks the lot of them.
    
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    January 8, 2024 9:56am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Treason is quite specific, Steve, and covers things a little bit more serious than (alleged) fiscal mismanagement. Such as:
      – killing the King
      – levying war against New Zealand
      – assisting an enemy at war with New Zealand
      – using force for overthrowing the Government
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:07am
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        3 waters and Co-Governance – using force for overthrowing the Government.
        You have no idea what this Co-Governance is all about – probably all for it.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:07am
      - Opie
        
        Robertson would be into all those things
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:08am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        An elected government pass a law with which you personally disagree is very far from being treason.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:14am
      - newview
        
        Mike. How do you rate the labour governments attempt to cover NZ farm land in pine trees that would result in
        That land never to be used for farming again and
        The slash from those trees ending up on our coastline.
        To me thats’s a treasonous act. Or you could say
        Treesonous.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:23am
      - mikenmildagain
        
        newview
        See my 11.14am comment.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:34am
      - newview
        
        Mike, if the effect of that law is to permanently take out large areas of farmland that can never again be farmed to me thats treasonous. No elected government has the right to permanently change the economic potential of NZ or anywhere else., without that decision being agreed to by the majority of the people that live there. A referendum needed at least IMO. The very land we stand on is a finite resource that no tin pot government should be allowed to dick with.
        
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        January 8, 2024 12:38pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        – levying war against New Zealand
        – assisting an enemy at war with New Zealand
        – using force for overthrowing the Government
        
        I’d say there is a case to be answered in all the above three categories.
        
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        January 8, 2024 3:53pm
  - Master Mariner
    
    Out of interest, what was the reason for detaining a guy who was trying too sabotage the Cook Straight power cables during Covid ?
    What happened to him ?
    What charges was he held under ?
    Any ideas ?
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:49am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Possibly the terrorism legislation.
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:13am
      - Master Mariner
        
        That was my thinking too.
        
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        January 8, 2024 12:41pm
    - Ghost
      
      Sabotage
      
      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328546.html
      
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      January 8, 2024 12:52pm
    - wsk12345
      
      I didn’t hear about the event but probably charged with sabotage?
      
      https://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/137.0/DLM328546.html
      
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      January 8, 2024 1:10pm
    - Maggy Wassilieff
      
      He was sentenced to three years and 1 month in jail on 7 counts of sabotage.
      
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/power-grid-sabotage-nzs-first-convicted-saboteur-graham-philip-denied-parole-a-second-time/YWFFJW5K6RE3JK6MU2XKU4S2GM/#:~:text=62%2Dyear%2Dold%20Graham%20Philip,Grid%20in%20November%20last%20year.
      
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      January 8, 2024 3:32pm
  - peterwn
    
    In 1922 Archbishop Liston was charged with making seditious statements (and acquitted by an all protestant jury). The Herald and (then) Auckland Mayor Gunson pressured the Government to lay the sedition charge.
    
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    January 8, 2024 12:12pm
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Yes, quite a few people have been convicted of sedition, among the future prime minister Peter Fraser.
      
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      January 8, 2024 12:27pm
  - Jake Dee
    
    “Given no New Zealander has ever been convicted of, or even charged with, treason…”
    
    now that is an interesting assertion that should be examined further. I do a little sniffing and I discover a New Zealander named Hamiora Pere was charged with the crime of treason. He was tried for treason in the Supreme Court in Wellington on 28 September¹. He was one of the first men charged under the Disturbed Districts Act 1869, a temporary measure containing special provisions (such as smaller juries) for trying Māori who were deemed to be ‘in open rebellion’ and had committed ‘outrages and atrocities’¹. The jury took less than 15 minutes to find him guilty of treason, for which the death penalty was mandatory but could be commuted¹. Hamiora Pere was hanged at the Terrace Gaol, Wellington, and buried in an unmarked grave¹. He is the only New Zealander to have been executed after being convicted of treason¹.
    
    Source: Conversation with Bing, 07/01/2024
    (1) Hamiora Pere executed for treason – New Zealand History. https://nzhistory.govt.nz/page/hamiora-pere-executed-treason.
    (2) List of people executed in New Zealand – Wikipedia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_New_Zealand.
    (3) Crimes Act 1961 – New Zealand Legislation. https://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1961/0043/latest/DLM328520.html.
    (4) What is treason and who can be convicted of it? – CBS News. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/what-is-treason-and-who-can-be-convicted-of-it/.
    
    I am consistently stating on this blog that opinions have to be supported by facts and am consistently downticked and slurred as some sort of Jew hating crypto Marxist because of it.
    
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    January 8, 2024 7:29pm
- Bloody Dago
  
  Reckless and Incompetent Financial Behavior first cab off the rank
  
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  January 8, 2024 4:47pm
kevn

Let’s do an electric ferry in NZ…
https://dailysceptic.org/2024/01/07/nicola-sturgeons-flagship-hybrid-ferry-now-only-runs-on-diesel-as-battery-too-expensive-to-fix/
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January 8, 2024 9:24am
- mikenmildagain
  
  There is already one operating in Wellington.
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:40am
  - Paulus
    
    Assume Wellington Ferry has a diesel backup ?
    The new double cost Auckland Tugs have huge diesel backups I understand.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:05am
    - Master Mariner
      
      Absolute Greenwashing.
      
      13 1
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      January 8, 2024 10:51am
    - kowtow
      
      Yep , the msm propaganda blurb is that Sparky is “all electric” but …….
      
      ‘To ensure added safety, the tug also has two 1,000kW back-up generators that will only be used in cases of emergency or other unforeseen faults. POAL expects to use the generators only rarely, once or twice a year at most.’
      
      I think that’s why there’s two funnel/exhausty looking things in the photos . “All electric” pffffffffft.
      
      https://www.bairdmaritime.com/work-boat-world/tug-and-salvage-world/harbour-tugs-and-operation/vessel-review-sparky-all-electric-tug-delivered-to-new-zealands-auckland-port/
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:53am
      - kevn
        
        kow… My money is on Sparky frying out within 10 years. Then being an uneconomic repair.
        MM to comment please.
        
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        January 8, 2024 11:07am
    - kiwikidsnz
      
      Apparently Wgtns isn’t a diesel backup however Aucklands will be
      https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/police-rescue-passengers-from-powerless-electric-ferry/RXSGH2DBEGLH33XSPDKFXQZ2YU/#:~:text=Passengers%20on%20Wellington's%20new%20electric,transferred%20to%20the%20police%20boat.
      
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      January 8, 2024 10:59am
    - Steve Otto(North Shore)
      
      The Auckland tugs carried their own diesel generators for the trip from Vietnam.
      
      6 3
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      January 8, 2024 11:10am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      Wellington ferry is all-electric.
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:16am
      - cmm
        
        That’s a bit like: “The government pays my salary.”
        
        8 2
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        January 8, 2024 2:43pm
    - peterwn
      
      If they are not using diesel, they are effectively using imported coal via Huntly Power Station.
      
      13 3
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      January 8, 2024 12:05pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      It has a huge lithium fire-bomb, er I mean battery on board?
      
      3 3
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      January 8, 2024 3:55pm
- Blog-aholic
  
  Auckland are getting them built right now….I saw the TV news article and wondered how long it would be once in service before they became a liability…….
  
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  January 8, 2024 9:42am
- Master Mariner
  
  Well,
  “Alfred Baird, formerly Professor of Maritime Business and Director of the Maritime Transport Research Group at Edinburgh Napier University, said he was consulted on the hybrid ferries but advised against them. He claims officials at the Scottish Government then complained to his bosses about his work and tried to stop his research being published”.
  
  Sound familar , Ideology meets reality.
  What could possibly go wrong //
  Cheers Kevn.
  Interesting.
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:56am
  - cmm
    
    Hybrids really score in one of three ways:
    
    1) When there is a start/stop load then there is a mismatch between the load and the engine. During this time the engine runs inefficiently and the clutch turns power into heat as it slips. An electric part can provide a boost to overcome this and get the engine into its peak operating zone.
    2) When there is a sudden heavy load, then the electric part can provide a parallel boost to the regular engine (really just a special case of 1).
    3) Using the engine instead of brakes to do regenerative braking. Not really applicable on a vessel I would think. (Reverse thrusting needs power input to shift the water, it is not friction braking).
    
    It is quite easy to see that hybrids could benefit buses. Everyone has seen buses burning black smoke when they take off from a bus stop. Using a hybrid could overcome that. When they hit the brakes they can harvest power to help the next take off.
    
    Same with trains, potentially regenerating some power when going downhill etc.
    
    But I really can’t see where the benefit would be in a hybrid ferry where there is little start stop and no braking.
    
    It just smells of tick-in-a-box virtue signalling.
    
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    January 8, 2024 2:42pm
    - Taieri
      
      Hybrids really score in one of three ways:
      ———
      
      Hybrid propulsion was widely used in diesel-electric submarines. For obvious reasons. While diesel can still be operated at snorkel depth, the electric propulsion takes over when a sub dives deeper.
      
      Not so useful in commercial shipping. There are some installations on the offshore supply vessels but not in any great numbers. Personally, I’m skeptical as it restricts vessel’s trading area to ports which provide charging facilities and there are not many of those. There’s not much point in installing battery banks which need to be charged with diesel driven generators.
      But it sounds good when a company puts out a “we saved 1000 tonnes of CO2 emissions this year” spiel.
      
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      January 8, 2024 4:16pm
- NZer In Exile
  
  Yees. Just watched a Louis Rossman video the other day where he was talking about Hyundai (and their network of reportedly only “independent repairers”) charging $60,000 for a replacement EV battery. The people’s car? Who the hell can afford that for an already expensive vehicle that is far more inconvenient to use than an ICE vehicle or hybrid???
  
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  January 8, 2024 1:59pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAGtKgNUdCA
Europe’s Final Countdown | Peter Zeihan.
In this insightful video, the speaker delves into the complex demographic and economic challenges facing Europe, particularly in the context its aftermath. The discussion begins with an analysis of Europe’s aging population and the imminent mass retirement across the continent, highlighting the severe impact this demographic shift is having on countries like Germany and Italy. The speaker emphasizes how the pandemic has accelerated the economic decline of these nations, pushing them closer to a point of no return.
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January 8, 2024 9:58am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rVzR-Be827k
US has made its bed and fluffed its pillows to sleep with yet another enemy
Biden’s diplomatic dance with Qatar: cozying up or stirring up? Foreign ties and gas gambits create new alliances with old questions.
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January 8, 2024 9:59am
kevn

Blog… There is an electric tugboat (which is charged by an on-shore diesel generator) in Auckland. Hard to imagine any savings with running costs.
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January 8, 2024 10:05am
- peterwn
  
  It is the thought that counts.
  
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  January 8, 2024 12:02pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    That is it, the thought. Electric cars, electric boats, electric trains (yeah I know diesel trains are electric), electric planes. Makes the Greens feel all warm and fuzzy and have orgasms.
    Nek minut Elon Musk will have electric rockets to go to Mars!
    
    5 4
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    January 8, 2024 1:46pm
    - Keith White
      
      Well Steve, “over here” I am commuting to work on an electric motorcycle and I gotta say
      
      – starts first time every time
      – 0-100km.hr in 3.6 seconds
      – traction control
      – ABS
      – does not wake babies leaving early or arriving late
      – charges overnight on household current
      – 165km range at 90 km/hr – 180 on higher-regen-mode / in-hilly-country
      
      I do enjoy it.
      
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      January 9, 2024 6:16am
  - cmm
    
    There wasn’t much thought.
    
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    January 8, 2024 2:31pm
kevn

mma… So?
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January 8, 2024 10:05am
- Steve Todd
  
  kevn: you have been asked several times before, to inset your comments under the comments you are responding to, by first clicking on ‘REPLY’.
  
  Again, please be advised that your failure to routinely do so is very annoying.
  
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  January 8, 2024 11:17am
  - kevn
    
    Sad for you Steve (REPLYING)
    
    [Mod – please click reply to the comment you are replying to so people know what you are replying to]
    
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    January 8, 2024 12:16pm
Yvette

Diversity
Consider a Bible belief – The Tower of Babel narrative in Genesis 11:1–9 is an origin myth and parable meant to explain why the world’s peoples speak different languages.

“Diversity”. mentioned in comments above, is therefore a “punishment of God”, so regarding the question of whether it should be “forced” or “natural”, there is surely also a question of ‘In what direction should believers push a condition God hath cast upon the world? – a little while back?
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January 8, 2024 10:25am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Does anyone really care about the myriad of contradictory biblical instructions?
  
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  January 8, 2024 10:32am
  - mandk
    
    I can make it simple for you, mikey.
    
    Just read Matt 22:37-40.
    
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    January 8, 2024 10:42am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      If only Christianity consisted of loving one’s neighbor.
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:19am
    - Yvette
      
      Mandk, is not the reference Matt 22:37-40,“This is the greatest and first commandment. And a second is like it:” a consequence of the Tower of Babel and its diversity aftermath? – man’s disobedience towards God requires more of commandment one, and “love your brother” is the diverse brother created along with the fall of the Tower?
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:37am
    - Steve Todd
      
      Groan.
      
      Okay, paraphrased, those verses say—
      
      37. You shall love the Lord with all your heart, etc.
      38. This is the first and great commandment.
      39. The second is: You shall love your neighbour as yourself.
      40. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.
      
      In what way is your drawing of these verses to our attention, a pertinent response to mikenmildagain’s question?
      
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      January 8, 2024 11:39am
      - kowtow
        
        mma is nothing but a troll.
        
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        January 8, 2024 12:06pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @kowtow @ 12:06PM
        
        That is absolute nonsense. Kiwiblog is not a right-wing echo chamber. Our gracious host, DPF, has made it very clear over many years, that he welcomes comments from across the political spectrum.
        
        The brilliant mikenmildagain comes to this centre-right blogsite from a leftish perspective. And good on him for doing so. The great thing about his contributions, is that he tends toward the “taking the Mick” (from right-wingers) style of commentary that I, for one, thoroughly enjoy. Long may he continue to do so.
        
        By contrast, regular commenter, Tom Hunter, proudly informs us that he occupies the far-right of the political spectrum, and his comments certainly reflect that, but I have never seen any Kiwiblog commenter accuse him of being “a troll” (on this centre-right blogsite).
        
        Why is that I wonder? Right-wing hypocrisy, perhaps?
        
        Let’s be clear here what DPF considers ‘trolling’ to be—
        
        “Trolling
        
        “Trolling is an attempt to deliberately disrupt a conversation by being grossly offensive or massively off topic.
        
        “Comments on a post should be a response to the topic of the post. While some thread drift is inevitable, do not try to divert the thread into another topic. Use the daily General Debate for other topics.”
        
        (See https://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/comments_policy.)
        
        In my opinion, the comments put up by both mikenmildagain and Tom Hunter have never, and, to this day, do not, come anywhere near the above definition of ‘trolling’.
        
        So, it is my view that Kiwiblog commenters should stop accusing mikenmildagain of trolling, forthwith. It is a demonstrably false accusation. All he is doing is simply putting up points of view that, more often that not, are counter to the prevailing view here, and having great fun doing it.
        
        He may get up the noses of many, even most, Kiwibloggers, but my nose is not among them.
        
        All power to mikenmildagain, I say!
        
        12 20
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        January 8, 2024 2:04pm
      - NZer In Exile
        
        Why is one’s “salvation” based on having faith in something for which there is so little hard evidence???
        Wouldn’t just making the truth blindingly obvious to all be a better strategy for “saving” as many people as possible?(IE the whole caboodle make little sense).
        
        3 4
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        January 8, 2024 4:06pm
      - Steve Otto(North Shore)
        
        @Todd,
        You are one of Mike’s pseudonyms, using many VPNs right?
        
        If not, DPF and mods lets Mike get away with so much, that I get pulled up and sometimes have comments deleted.
        Sometimes reverse trolling is fun with Mike – but not with you!
        Sorry Todd.
        All hail to Mike and Steve Todd!//
        
        8 1
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        January 8, 2024 5:14pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @The Great Otto @ 5:14PM
        
        Oh, dear, The Great Otto strikes / makes a fool of himself yet again.
        
        Unfortunately, there is no cure for perpetual, unmitigated, stupidity. Ah, well, we suffer on.
        
        2 8
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        January 8, 2024 5:27pm
  - Matt Long
    
    Around 3.8 billion people consider the Bible a holy book and have at least a degree of regard for it’s teachings.
    
    16 3
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    January 8, 2024 11:45am
    - Yvette
      
      Matt, so for that 3.8 billion, and the numbers of them that are in New Zealand, is it not relevant that they consider what divides them, “diversity”, (the consequence of building Babel – which apparently may have progressed more than Auckland light rail ever did) and the opportunity which that resultant diversity affords followers to now “love one another” – or, in the context of diversity, advance “inclusiveness”?
      
      4 6
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      January 8, 2024 12:14pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Galatians 2: 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith, 27 for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.
        DEI is not a Christian concept.
        
        5 1
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        January 8, 2024 5:45pm
    - NZer In Exile
      
      My impression is the Christians who happily glide along with their beliefs don’t really bother to look too deeply at them in regards their consistency. If you did lift the lid and have a good look you’d probably have to face a lot of “soul searching” and discomfort.
      
      9 3
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      January 8, 2024 4:00pm
- Philview
  
  I recall the debate a few years ago that the EU’s new parliament building in Strasbourg is based on the Tower of Babel. The symbolism can be stretched in many directions. What God destroyed Man can rebuild etc.
  
  7 1
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  January 8, 2024 1:09pm
Tom Hunter

Chuckle… I can see Bill Ackman going scorched earth on these creatures:

Last night, a reporter at Bloomberg, let’s call her Kathy, left messages on my kids’ cell phones that she was writing a story on me and asking them to call back so they could answer her questions.
13 5
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January 8, 2024 10:26am
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ackman is 67, so his ‘kids’ are likely old enough to answer a call from a reporter.
  
  6 16
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  January 8, 2024 10:39am
  - kevn
    
    mma… So?
    
    6 4
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    January 8, 2024 11:01am
  - herb1
    
    You’re thought process seems to involve a lot of assumptions
    
    7 2
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    January 8, 2024 11:53am
  - Ghost
    
    His youngest child is 4 years old, his oldest is a teacher.
    
    14 4
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    January 8, 2024 11:54am
    - mikenmildagain
      
      I think we can presume the reporter didn’t phone a preschooler.
      
      5 14
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      January 8, 2024 12:29pm
      - NeverMindTheBollocks
        
        Assumption is the mother of all stuff ups, Mikey
        
        11 4
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        January 8, 2024 2:10pm
- kevn
  
  Tom… US media must love to fail. At all costs.
  
  7 2
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  January 8, 2024 11:02am
- All_on_Red
  
  Interesting to see that it seems Oxman left MIT awhile ago
  
  9 0
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  January 8, 2024 11:03am
- Che Guava
  
  What a hypocrite: this guy has spent the last few months trying to destroy the prospective careers of students who don’t share his own ethnic ingroup bias, now he’s complaining about reporters trying to investigate his wife’s plagiarism? Cry me a river, Bill. These double-standards are really starting to accumulate and people are increasingly noticing.
  
  6 23
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  January 8, 2024 12:22pm
slightlyrighty

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RAHB-Ak4r_s

well, well, well…..this has not been widely reported in NZ Media…..at least not that I can find.

Royal Australian and New Zealand College of Psychiatrists (RANZCP), three weeks ago, published a report in which it stated the position that gender Affirming treatment in Minors who claim to be Trangender should not be the default option, and addressing the issues of those who detransition.
19 2
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January 8, 2024 12:28pm
- Steve Todd
  
  Perhaps not widely reported, but reaction to the report has been sitting in the side panel since about Christmas time – see Bob McCoskrie’s McBlog, over to the right.
  
  10 0
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  January 8, 2024 1:01pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Minors who claim to be ‘transgender’ have a mental health problem, and trick cyclists know this.
  The parents of the minors have the same mental health disease.
  Stand up to these freeloading freaks!
  
  20 6
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  January 8, 2024 1:52pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    Steve,
    Apparently the average child undergoing the “treatment” consumes about $1,000,000 of pharmaceuticals.
    Not to mention the fees charged by the ghouls posing as medical professionals.
    
    Its a profitable business. That’s why the US media, whose advertising income is 75% big pharma, are promoting it.
    
    Sick bastards.
    
    13 1
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    January 8, 2024 5:17pm
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      $1m seems high
      
      0 0
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      January 8, 2024 7:47pm
Master Mariner

A thought provoking article on the descision making process of whether Aust should support Operation Prosperity in the Red Sea with Naval presense.

https://navalinstitute.com.au/factors-in-australias-maritime-interests/?utm_source=mailpoet&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=ani-e-newsletter-
12 1
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January 8, 2024 12:33pm
- Grunter
  
  One thought provoked ……
  
  Almost all countries (especially NZ) are economically linked to such a degree that any disruption creates a serious issue to livelihoods and lives. The entire globe is now pretty much economically interdependent. No country can operate without trade with others.
  
  So why the hell would any country start or provoke any war??? Isn’t that counterproductive for your own country on so many levels? Why create a global trading economy to only then have wars with trading partners (suppliers & customers)? Is it just a mistake??
  
  IMO these major wars of recent times (Ukraine and now the Middle East) are not a mistake despite the fact that they will ultimately dismantle the global economy as we know it. Behind all this is the massive debt in global economies (US, China, EU, Japan, UK, etc) that can never be paid back. It is one huge inter-connected Ponzi scheme that will some day collapse/default. Most of this debt is held by pension schemes, insurance companies and banks (where we all store our savings).
  
  There is no plausible plan to unwind the debt peacefully…….so war it has to be. Or maybe there is a different solution? Anyone?
  
  3 6
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  January 8, 2024 2:17pm
  - cmm
    
    “So why the hell would any country start or provoke any war?”
    
    You are looking at it wrong. It is never beneficial for the people.
    It is, however, beneficial for the elite who:
    1) profit from the conflict – one way or another
    2) insulate themselves from the effects of the conflict.
    
    Just look at the stupid amount weapons cost.
    
    Javelin missile (just the missile) costs ~250k USD. A bit of pipe, a bit of explosives, battery and less electronics than a cellphone.
    
    The actual build cost is probably under $10k each. They could be under $2k if designed for cost using slightly newer designs.
    
    But there’s no motivation to cut the spending. Why redesign when everyone is happy with the $240k per unit mark up?All the people that sign off are balls deep in the grift and would be annoyed if the costs were cut.
    
    3 1
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    January 8, 2024 5:55pm
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Houthis probably aren’t too connected to global trade
    
    0 0
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    January 8, 2024 7:49pm
- cmm
  
  I thought it was wrapped up.
  
  NZ has spoken. The Houthis will realise they can’t face they might of Rangi, wearing his Swannie and white gumboots in a 6ft tinnie!
  
  12 3
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  January 8, 2024 2:28pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    With his Mere and Taiaha!
    
    6 2
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    January 8, 2024 5:17pm
    - cmm
      
      More likely his blunt bait knife and a box of Woodies.
      
      3 0
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      January 8, 2024 5:45pm
NeverMindTheBollocks

RIP Tony Adeane.

“Judge Adeane achieved a degree of national prominence in 2007 when he sentenced three men to short prison sentences after they’d gone on tagging sprees.”

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/301036517/long-serving-district-court-judge-tony-adeane-has-died
16 0
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January 8, 2024 2:19pm
- cmm
  
  Taggers are scum.
  
  Our neighbour recently spent about 5-10k putting up a nice neat fence. Fuckers from the taxpayer funded baby factories in the next street over tagged it within a month.
  
  12 1
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  January 8, 2024 5:44pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

We don’t have these nutbars in NZ, do we?
Oh wait, think about that…. A comedian (please) has PTSD?

https://thepoliticalinsider.com/kathy-griffin-deals-with-her-trump-induced-ptsd-by-meowing-like-a-cat-mooing-like-a-cow/?
12 6
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January 8, 2024 2:40pm
- imalwaysright
  
  Griffith sounds like she is understandably suffering from self hatred.
  Can’t wait for The Great One to take the piss out of this nut.
  
  6 0
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  January 8, 2024 5:28pm
Ghost

This is what f**** me off with the media. Two people have died, their loved ones don’t need these photos in the media. You also don’t need to take a photo of someone getting loaded on to the chopper, even if you do blur them out

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/sefton-crash-multiple-people-injured-emergency-services-rush-to-scene/CVV46KYFRRBQ5NSSDTASZZQZUY/
11 2
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January 8, 2024 2:46pm
- kevn
  
  Ghost… The media seem frozen out from any political happenings, so are struggling to fill the front page.
  
  10 3
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  January 8, 2024 3:03pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    Media could put up photos of themselves.
    Look at me, look at mee, see what I have done for you last year!
    Foxtrot Oscar. You are shit and you now know that we know!
    
    7 2
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    January 8, 2024 5:20pm
- rouppe
  
  But they won’t put up photos of offenders who knife people at random
  
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/north-shore-stabbing-four-stabbed-in-random-attack-police-hail-publics-bravery/IMWSP3UROX4YEE3YC46BFOUYXY/
  
  2 0
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  January 8, 2024 8:34pm
  - Ghost
    
    He was found not guilty by reason of insanity, given name suppression and was in the Mason Clinic at the last article on it, so the media can’t show who he is
    
    0 0
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    January 8, 2024 8:44pm
NZer In Exile

Remember how the DemocRat idiocracy cooked up the Russia-gate giant sack of lying garbage?

Well another one of their giant time/money wasting distraction hoaxes has bitten the dust. This time the dreaded “white supremacists the greatest threat” crock!

Vivek Shreds Liberal Media After One Of Their Favorite Narratives Utterly Collapses

https://dailycaller.com/2024/01/05/vivek-ramaswamy-left-wing-media-domestic-extremism-military/
9 4
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January 8, 2024 3:41pm
- mikenmildagain
  
  Ramaswamy has some potential. Wants to have high estate taxes and legalize marijuana.
  
  4 8
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  January 8, 2024 3:48pm
  - NZer In Exile
    
    My only concern with him is he is possibly too young to be prez of the USA. Otherwise his instincts seem to be on the money as far as I can see.
    
    3 2
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    January 8, 2024 4:42pm
    - Jake Dee
      
      He is playing a long game, nobody expects him to be in the White House in 2024 but Senator or Govenor in a few more years is very plausible.
      
      1 0
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      January 8, 2024 8:01pm
  - Steve Otto(North Shore)
    
    So does Chloe, are they married?
    Oh, he is 38 the google machine tells me.
    
    3 6
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    January 8, 2024 5:21pm
    - cmm
      
      I guess he could always re-identify as a lesbian.
      
      4 2
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      January 8, 2024 5:41pm
  - imalwaysright
    
    I like Vivek Ramaswamys proposal to cut the US public service by 50%.
    
    “Everyone whose social security number ends in an odd digit no longer works for the US government ”
    
    Perhaps Seymour could try it here.
    
    10 3
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    January 8, 2024 5:33pm
    - Mike
      
      Seymour is too busy setting up his new ministry.
      
      3 0
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      January 8, 2024 7:08pm
  - cmm
    
    He looks like a possibility for the future.
    
    He will likely improve as he matures and USA’s future needs are greater than they are now (eg. when the debt bomb finally does go off and people need to tighten their belts considerably).
    
    Given that USA has the two term limit is would make sense to allow him to mature for another 20 years and get him then. Makes more sense than only getting what he is now.
    
    6 2
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    January 8, 2024 5:40pm
Chuck Bird

Here’s Why Britain Should Ditch King Charles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qElmEr8RrLg
1 18
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January 8, 2024 4:18pm
- Ghost
  
  Why should we ditch him? Because he got angry at a pen leaking on him? Because he believes in alternative medicine? Because some people don’t like his views
  
  16 2
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  January 8, 2024 4:25pm
  - kevn
    
    Ghost… He is rather too cosy with Schwab and WEF.
    
    10 6
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    January 8, 2024 4:35pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Wow! An evidence-, link-free comment.
      
      C’mon, kevn, give us a bit more than that.
      
      4 12
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      January 8, 2024 4:47pm
      - kevn
        
        st… I don’t need to ‘sell’ it. Go look for yourself.
        If you are too lazy…
        https://www.weforum.org/podcasts/world-vs-virus/episodes/klaus-schwab-and-prince-charles-on-why-we-need-a-great-reset/
        
        8 4
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        January 8, 2024 4:57pm
      - Steve Todd
        
        @kevn @ 4:57PM
        
        I wasn’t asking you to ‘sell’ it.
        
        Why should we go looking for ‘proof’ of what you say, simply because you were too lazy, and too uncaring of your fellow commenters, to simply reinforce your ‘opinion’ with the link you have subsequently provided?
        
        So easy, kevn; just as easy as clicking on REPLY when you respond to someone’s comment.
        
        Have a bit of consideration in future.
        
        3 14
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        January 8, 2024 5:13pm
      - Matt Long
        
        Also kevn when you make outrageous comments,like the sun is hot and yellowish, please make sure to post multiple links in support for the substance abusers amongst us.
        
        12 3
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        January 8, 2024 5:37pm
Ra Henare

Further to my post in yesterdays GD.
Pros and cons of living in Cambodia.

Paperwork.
Of all the SE Asia countries i have visit/lived in
Cambodia has the easiest Retirement Visa.

Over 55yo old. Buggar all paperwork required.
1 year renewable, multi entry visa is renewable via many Travel agencies.
Walk in give passport, sign a bit of paper, give $290 USD. Come back a few days later new Visa in passport.

If you want to save Agency Fee, you can go to Immigration at Phnom Penh airport with bunches of paperwork and pay $180 USD and wait a couple of days.

Thailand requires you to have a very healthy bank balance in Thailand and paperwork !!

https://www.thaiembassy.com/thailand-visa/retirement-visa

Vietnam has maximum 3 month Visa then you must leave country and re enter. $78 USD a pop.

https://www.vietnam-visa.com/vietnam-multiple-entry-visa/

Malaysia
If you are over the age of 50, you must have at least RM 350,000 (appx. USD 83,000) in liquid assets and an offshore income of at least RM 10,000 (appx. USD 2,370) per month.
16 0
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January 8, 2024 4:51pm
- rouppe
  
  Thank you for the information. Useful
  
  4 0
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  January 8, 2024 8:18pm
Steve Otto(North Shore)

Unreal: NZTE.
When will this shit stop?

https://twitter.com/TaxpayersUnion/status/1744209831597339083?
13 3
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January 8, 2024 5:34pm
- greybeard
  
  I checked their website, and it explains a lot !
  Close it down, Mr. Luxon !
  
  10 1
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  January 8, 2024 5:50pm
Ghost

Hmmmm, we have a new candidate in the faked death still alive category

JOAN RIVERS – ANOTHER FAKED DEATH

Ssssh, no one tell them it is really Jo Schuman Silver
6 2
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January 8, 2024 5:41pm
- Steve Otto(North Shore)
  
  Mike (you know who) is still a bloke!
  
  2 4
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  January 8, 2024 5:52pm
- Inandout
  
  Ghost, they all talk the same from NY.
  
  2 2
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  January 8, 2024 5:54pm
Ghost

Pays to be an illegal immigrant in California if you want a sex change

Conservatives have reacted with fury after it was reported that illegal migrants in California can be eligible for gender-affirming care from Medi-Cal, the state’s version of Medicare.

Beginning January 1, all undocumented immigrants in California who meet certain criteria, such as having been resident in the state since 2014 and having income below a certain threshold, automatically qualified for Medi-Cal.

Article

Stupid.
11 1
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January 8, 2024 5:56pm
- [email protected]
  
  California is a place to miss if considering somewhere to live. Been there, happy to live here in NZ, not in California.
  
  3 0
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  January 8, 2024 9:22pm
Ghost

I was just reading that they have started filming the final season of stranger things. I’m starting to think we may already be living in the upside down

Today the herald had two articles that were not attacking Luxon.

Prime Minister Christopher Luxon talks about his 30-year wedding anniversary, upcoming political year

And

Jarrod Gilbert: Why Christopher Luxon was right about New Zealand’s tobacco black market

Hmmm. Two non attack articles in one day, weird.
13 3
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January 8, 2024 6:51pm
- JimBobJoe
  
  The Ad team and the finance team have looked in the crystal ball – they have realised without Govt support via Ad revenue they are screwed. So they are being less aggressive towards the Govt…
  
  OR all the attack dogs are on the beach and things will restart from Waitangi Day onwards
  
  9 0
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  January 8, 2024 7:16pm
- kevn
  
  Ghost… Indeed, but I did noticed the 2 Luxon photos within the article were blanked.
  A link for s.t.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/prime-minister-christopher-luxon-talks-about-his-30-year-wedding-anniversary-upcoming-political-year/STY55QS7GFACNGFVWSMOZRS57Q/
  
  3 1
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  January 8, 2024 7:24pm
- Rich Prick
  
  Those kid actors must be in their 30s by now.
  
  2 0
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  January 8, 2024 10:07pm
greybeard

https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/301033204/everything-you-need-to-know-about-aucklands-newest-luxury-hotel
“By the numbers” would definitely have missed the “multi-millions” paid to local/national iwi for anything and everything even vaguely “maori”, in order to get the place finished.
4 1
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January 8, 2024 6:55pm

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