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August 12, 2025 8:00am by Kokila Patel

General Debate 12 August 2025

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General Debate

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Chuck Bird

Hosking talks sense about Gaza. Luxon should listen to him.
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August 12, 2025 8:03am
- Cassandra
  
  A summary of what Hosking said would be useful, Chuck.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:11am
  - pdm
    
    Newstalkzb on demand Cass.
    
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    August 12, 2025 8:15am
    - Chuck Bird
      
      Basically, anything we do will make no difference so we should mind our own business. Do you not listen to Hosking most mornings?
      
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      August 12, 2025 8:27am
      - Cassandra
        
        I do not listen to any radio. Even Hosking!
        
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        August 12, 2025 8:54am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        And how is that talking sense? We have to make a stand soon either way, we are now being looked at as lepers, 150 countries have now got a stance
        
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        August 12, 2025 9:37am
      - AitchW
        
        What I heard was that if we join the mob and recognize Palestine as a state on the condition that Hamas isn’t involved they’ll be elected in few years anyway and we’ll be right back where we started…
        
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        August 12, 2025 10:13am
      - Jigsaw
        
        Listen to Hosking? And get a daily dose of motor racing and country music…..spare me!
        
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        August 12, 2025 11:40am
      - Jack5
        
        C from Dunedin’s … we are now being looked at as lepers…
        
        No-one overseas gives a rat’s arse about the views on Gaza of the Faroe Islands, Cabo Verde, Tokelau, Bermuda, or New Zealand.
        
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        August 12, 2025 12:43pm
    - Cassandra
      
      Is that the format of this blog? We each go to a radio station etc, listen/read and then come back here to write about it? That’s not my definition of a debate.
      
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      August 12, 2025 8:53am
- pdm
  
  Goff was an embarrassment though Chuck.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:14am
  - AitchW
    
    What a raving freaking lefty. Not one mention of the 50 hostages still held by Hamas, no recognition of the fact that Hamas steals the vast majority of the food aid.
    That was spitting Goff at his worst, you could see his rainbow keffiyeh!
    
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    August 12, 2025 8:32am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He even want on to say even Trump said kids are starving and some crazy thing it’s the Israelis starving them on purpose, even though Israel was able to give evidence the food was there but was being cut off by Hammas
      
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      August 12, 2025 9:41am
    - igm
      
      Goff will never be forgiven after he spat at, and abused returning soldiers from Vietnam, ably accompanied by Helen Clark . . . lovely people these Labour leaders, and there has been no improvement.
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:15am
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      I supported Goff’s sacking but now feel it is a mistake since he’s decided to go full Stuart Nash and keep popping up to spout his views in the hope of securing a new gig.
      
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      August 12, 2025 5:41pm
  - kowtow
    
    Last week he was on HDPA re our de industrialisation ( no gas) and became increasingly unhinged sounding as he blithered on about how important it was , basically to commit economic suicide ( carbon crazy) , in order to sell to Europe .
    
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    August 12, 2025 8:49am
    - pdm
      
      Yet there is some speculation I have seen since Peters sacked him that he could be a contender to take over from Hipkins.
      
      Talk about going from the ridiculous to the even more ridiculous.
      
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      August 12, 2025 9:35am
      - G the giant from Dunedin
        
        How could he do that from outside parliament
        
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        August 12, 2025 9:43am
      - Ghost
        
        He’s gone, he won’t be back. Some seem to live with the fairy tale that Ardern, Goff, etc will return to politics. That monster is no longer under your bed
        
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        August 12, 2025 9:48am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      If we deindustrialise then we’ll produce nothing to sell to Europe.
      
      Honestly, the lack of joined up thinking on the Left just leaves me bewildered.
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:18am
      - kowtow
        
        In addition to having nothing to sell , we’re moving towards having no jobs , which folk need to pay their ever increasing power bills .
        
        One only needs to look at Britain to see where this is leading. Worklessness , welfare , societal decline , ever bigger govt deficits .
        
        Madness.
        
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        August 12, 2025 11:17am
  - G152
    
    The word is Goff is -always- an embarrasment
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:39am
    - AitchW
      
      A wet simpering lefty. Oleaginous.
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:15am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Yet you rave about Hosking saying what ever we think makes no difference, but as soon as Hosking said he had Goff coming in I yelled with anger, why would you get this fool on fir anything after being sacked as a diplomat
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:39am
  - Hugh Jarse
    
    As Muldoon would say, a shiver looking for a spine to run down.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:43am
    - igm
      
      At least the person Rob referred to was a decent sincere guy, not a degenerate such Labour’s modern selections.
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:20am
  - Nigel Kearney
    
    This picture speaks for itself:
    
    https://www.bridgemanimages.com/en/osama-silwadi/palestinian-president-yasser-arafat-walks-with-the-new-zealand-foreign-minister-phil-goff-at-his/photograph/asset/8444819
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:45am
    - NeverMindTheBollocks
      
      Bearing in mind that Yasser Arafat ran with a different crew that by current standards would seem moderate. Hamas and Hezbollah chased them out of Gaza decades ago.
      
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      August 12, 2025 4:21pm
  - Clyde
    
    I listened to Goff on Hosking. Goff is a tosser.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:49am
  - rouppe
    
    His statement that methamphetamine “was used by the Nazis to make their soldiers more aggressive” was another one of those half truths.
    
    Yes, the Nazis gave methamphetamine to their soldiers. The allies also have it to their bomber crews so they could stay awake during successive, long sorties. They also gave it to their fighter pilots to make them more daring during low level attacks.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:40am
    - Jack5
      
      Meth was sold over the counter as Pervatin in Germany before World War 2.
      
      Does anyone remember an inhaler available in NZ decades ago that teenagers of the day believed kept you awake?
      
      We called it Nodoze, but that was probably a nickname rather than a brand or marketing name. It came in a tube you held under your nostril, and breathed in.
      
      Looking back, it seems it was a teenage myth: something that merely cleared your nose would help you party until dawn. The power of suggestion.
      
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      August 12, 2025 12:58pm
- mandk
  
  He does.
  
  Recognising Palestine as a state will achieve nothing.
  
  Hamas will be encouraged by the recognition and will exert their power in the West Bank (Judea and Samaria) by taking on and defeating the Palestinian Authority. They will not renounce their intention to wipe Israel off the map and kill all the Jews.
  
  Israel will continue to face an existential threat and will use all means to ensure the country survives.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:15am
  - Ghost
    
    Luxon has already said if Hamas is in control then it’s a no
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:58am
    - lifesgood
      
      And good on him!
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:25am
    - Beach Haven expat
      
      This is what these clowns don’t get. They want a functioning democratic state of Palestine but seem to think they can tell the Palestinians who they can and cannot elect. What if they want Hamas to govern them?
      
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      August 12, 2025 5:46pm
  - kowtow
    
    Yet the PA are the inheritors of a very long history of terror against Jewish and western interests . How many citizens of western democracies , now so anxious to “recognise” them have there been.
    
    Treachery .
    
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    August 12, 2025 11:23am
- lastmanstanding
  
  A recent poll showed 48% of Gazans support Hamas. I predict Hamas will control a Palestine State. Sure they might rename themselves to the Palestine Democratic Party but they will continue. They will return the hostages in body bags after torturing and killing the few hostages who remain alive. They will contine to attack Israel.
  I say any politican who supports a Palestine State before Hamas is destroyed and the hostages returned is anti semitic anti Zionist and a Jew hater. They know unless Hamas is destroyed never to return Israel can never exist in safety. They know Iran Russia China and North Korea support and will continue to support Hamas. Go figure.
  
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  August 12, 2025 9:09am
  - NeverMindTheBollocks
    
    Polls in Gaza are unreliable at the best of times, and these are not the best of times.
    
    Frankly, I’m surprised that 52% of Gazans admit to not supporting Hamas.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:20am
  - MCōs
    
    Inasmuch as any sort of poll can be conducted in that wretched place, who did the the other 52% support? Israel?
    Forty years ago hamas didn’t exist
    Eighty year ago Israel didn’t exist
    Before that the whole area was known as Palestine
    One hundred years ago there were few Jews. The emigrated there as refugees from Germany and the rest of Europe facilitated by the British who controlled the area after WWI.
    The British and Americans didn’t want any other than elite Jews going to their countries.
    As today America was seen as the land of hope and dreams, but the locals weren’t interested and anti semitism was rife.
    30% of all European Jewish refugees went to Palestine, which annoyed the then population, Muslim, Christian & Jewish.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:40am
    - lastmanstanding
      
      39% support Fatah ( the Palestinain Authority another terrorist group) and the rest didnt respond.
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:45am
      - Don Beckett
        
        @MCos.
        “Eighty year ago Israel didn’t exist”
        What utter rubbish. Israel existed as a nation as far back as 1000 BC. Same as Syria, Lebanon etc.
        The area was known as Palestine as you say which encompassed the other states mentioned -it was called thus by the Romans – but it was never a country or nation, just a region.
        
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        August 12, 2025 11:06am
      - MCōs
        
        Israel may have existed 1000yrs ago, but it didn’t exist 80yrs ago
        Countries come and go.
        Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia have both gone in my lifetime
        
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        August 12, 2025 11:47am
      - Jack5
        
        Cossie’s ..Countries come and go…
        
        Is this place some call Aotearoa coming or going?
        
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        August 12, 2025 1:05pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        Correct – because the said countries have divided by ethnicity – so they are now Serbia, Croatia etc. for Yugoslavia ;& Slovakia & the Czech Republic.
        They were previously ‘provinces’ within the countries, and have declared to separate into their own countries with the agreement of the populace.
        
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        August 12, 2025 1:07pm
      - Local Miller
        
        “Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia have both gone in my lifetime”
        Actually neither of these countries existed 80 + years ago. 28th October 1918 as a result of WWI, the world leaders were redrawing the boarders of Europe and combined several states into what became known as Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia. After the cold war, and sometimes because of ethnic fighting and a will to become independent states again many of these countries have thrown of the merged nation that was forced on them and reverted to their historical states, now elevated to countries.
        This also relates to some of the causes of WWII as Hitler used the breakup of the Prussian Empire into Poland, Germany, parts of Russia, Belgium and the Czech Republic. Hitler included Austria in this and used this to justify his invasion of Poland and Austria as claiming back the lands that belonged to the German Fatherland.
        One of the big arguments used against the independent nation of Israel is that it didn’t exist as a nation in reality from some time after being invaded by Rome through to 1948. But this is a weak argument because at what point do we cut off the right of a people to reclaim there historical homeland? And while Israel didn’t exist during this time, the are was never actually defined as any other country, it was always subsumed into other countries as a province or protectorate, but I’m not aware that any nation called Palestine existed prior to 1948.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:22pm
    - mogg
      
      You think that eighty years ago Israel didn’t exist, because they were forced into slavery and driven out of their homeland. The foundations on Temple Mount were built by Jews 1500 years before Islam was invented.
      
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      August 12, 2025 1:06pm
- G the giant from Dunedin
  
  Here we go again, Peter’s makes all decisions on foreign affairs, Luxon has not conveyed anything and says the minister will decide in the next steps. Peters is starting to talk as if he is losing faith in Israel, but yes, it will all be Luxon fault
  
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  August 12, 2025 9:35am
  - pdm
    
    G surely this is a Cabinet decision.
    
    If Luxon lets Peter’s make it then he is a fool and is at fault.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:15am
    - Ghost
      
      Yes
      
      https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/nz-considering-recognition-state-palestine
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:30am
- R
  
  The general public should listen to Hosking. PM Luxon shouldn’t have to listen, and think, for the masses. Besides that is the self agenda of Trade Union leaders
  
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  August 12, 2025 10:39am
Gravelroad

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360785440/joel-maxwell-zombie-politics-and-lost-art-actually-doing-things

This guy here has finally lost the plot.
What a load of pathetic, self-serving tosh.
Come on Stuff, you should be better than this by now. You want people to pay to access your site but allow activist employees to use it as an outlet for their own propaganda feelz.
No thanks.
When will enough be enough?
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August 12, 2025 8:05am
- Blog-aholic
  
  JM has been doing it for years, sadly it just gets worse.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:07am
- AitchW
  
  That article really should have a TPM banner on it.
  What a poorly written hit piece.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:10am
- pdm
  
  You are a braver man than I Gravel to read the tripe that Maxwell presents each week.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:17am
  - Prince
    
    Agree. Best to see the by-line and avoid.
    The media doesn’t care if you are enthralled or appalled – it’s the clicks that draw the advertisers in.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:11am
  - Jack5
    
    Maxwell is at best semi-literate in English.
    
    God knows what he’s like in Maori, which he learned as an adult.
    
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    August 12, 2025 1:09pm
- Yabster
  
  why would you expect anything else from Stuff/Maxwell – ignore both.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:27am
- [email protected]
  
  This is the paper that publishes Verity Johnson on a regular basis. I am not sure they have editorial standards any more as she frequently writes complete nonsense.
  
  Also Joel forgets the spectacular lack of building/doing anything the previous administration does. I’d have more respect for his position if he fairly pointed that out. Instead this comes across as the usual partisan hackery that passes for ‘informed commentary’ these days.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:50am
- Pope Punctilious II
  
  Zombie journalism: the lost art of just reporting the facts.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:52am
NK

This country prides itself on having an independent foreign policy position.

Will we do so here, or just follow the sheep?

Baaa baaa
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August 12, 2025 8:05am
- MCōs
  
  It’s obvious why NZ is hesitant to recognize Palestine as a separate country and it’s the same reason we don’t recognize Taiwan as a separate country
  In both cases it’s bad for trade; in the latter probably fatal.
  NZ has the sort of independent foreign policy that lets that Patel guy saunter in here and set up an FBI outpost to keep an eye on Chinese activity in the region.
  
  The alternative is an extra 10%, 20%, 30% trade tariff . . . . . . .
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:53am
  - Paulus
    
    Would be easier if Hamas released all the hostages both alive and dead
    They will not of course as that to them is a failure.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:07am
  - kowtow
    
    The “western” democracies to the forefront of this reward for Hamas’ atrocities all have very significant immigrant “communities” who in a number of instances have become key in many marginal seats .
    
    These politicians are doing this for domestic political purposes , but it also helps to burnish their “humanitarian” image.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:07am
- mogg
  
  “NZ has fifteen million sheep, 3 million of whom think they are people”. – Bazza McKenzie 1976
  
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  August 12, 2025 10:17am
Maggy Wassilieff

Labour must believe that Maori never ceded sovereignty to the Crown if it could enter into secret negotiations with a Bay of Plenty Tribe agreeing to this.

Under the previous Labour Government, an initial deed of settlement with Te Whānau-ā-Apanui was drawn up.

It includes the first case of a clause agreeing to disagree on who holds sovereignty.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/government-will-not-agree-to-treaty-settlements-that-dispute-crowns-sovereignty-today/IS7IOVPLDVH3PEUTBR46UDZX2U/

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/politics/almost-completed-te-whanau-a-apanui-settlement-now-increasingly-unlikely-under-this-government-after-ministers-sovereignty-stance/OKTV23XBIBDYNIVOIK6NKCSTRI/
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August 12, 2025 8:08am
- pdm
  
  Goldsmith has to hold his ground.
  
  Will he though?
  
  I would not bet on it.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:20am
  - Inandout
    
    pdm, Key folded on the Foreshore debate and Goldsmith may well follow suit.
    
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    August 12, 2025 8:51am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      Not true, Key have an alternative to sea bed and foreshore
      
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      August 12, 2025 9:47am
      - Inandout
        
        G, Key didn’t want confrontation when he took office. Well he did up GST and ignored the smacking supporters but Maori confrontation..hell no. Enter Chris Finlayson with an armful of koha.
        
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        August 12, 2025 10:14am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Of course he will, Nats have stated including Luxon that that Māori ceded Sovereignty, why would they lurch widely in the opposite direction?
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:46am
- balanced
  
  Why bother?
  
  Mahe Drysdale is clandenstinely giving BOP Maori, Tauranga ratepayers’ assets until ratepayers will have nothing left to be sovereign over.
  
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z28abV8cul4
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:24am
  - pdm
    
    balanced – you had better get your man Simon Watts on to sorting Drysdale out.
    
    Even if you ask it won’t happen though.
    
    Watts is in thrall of the NZLGA and the weakest Minister in Cabinet in my opinion.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:40am
    - balanced
      
      Pdm.
      
      Watts is publishing council metrics
      GOOD
      
      Most voters won’t bother to review them but prospective councilors can use them to criticize incumbants and there is a chance the despicable nz press might run a few stories.
      GOOD.
      
      But the real issue is Mayors and Councilors make bold election promises then disappear into council chambers knowing noone takes any notice of them until the next election. They proceed to sell their cities out to the highest bidder (typically developers or Iwi) who promise lucrative post public office opportunities. M Drysdale’s developer uncle funded his election campaign.
      BAD.
      
      There are exceptions like Mayor Brown.
      GOOD
      
      But Watts must put measures in place to combat this abuse of democracy. He said he would (rates capping)
      GOOD.
      
      but when?
      BAD
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:12am
      - RoboRob
        
        [Mod – no need to invent nicknames]Watts is a major problem. On his other portfolio, energy, he as promised things (by winter 2025) that have not happened at all. Not a peep from him.
        ‘But Watts must put measures in place to combat this abuse of democracy. He said he would (rates capping)
        GOOD.’
        BAD. Watts, talks the talk but doesn’t act. We are in October 2025, we are about to have new council elections. [Deleted] Watts done in the last 18mths to actually change councils?
        ‘Watts is publishing council metrics
        GOOD’
        Waste of time. Nobody reads them. You are right that council opposition could use them against incumbents but… 1) Nobody pays attention to council elections and more importantly 2) Often the challenger is as bad as the incumbent (see Christchurch Mayoral election).
        People have posted here, time after time, that a simple change to the local government act to remove the clause that allows councils to operate outside of core functions, would do wonders. [Deleted]Watts must surely understand that. Is he too busy ignoring the energy crisis to deal with it?
        Where the fuck is Luxon on this? He is the great manager who sets targets etc. Why has he not stepped in with Watts?
        
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        August 12, 2025 11:06am
      - balanced
        
        Robo. Watts can’t do anything about idiot voters.
        
        Don’t forget over 50% of you voted for ardern….
        
        WATTS CANT FIX STUPID.
        
        but he can fix the things I noted above and he’s working on it…..
        
        Local Government Amendment Bill
        
        This primary policy objective of this bill is to reduce pressure on council rates by refocusing the purpose of local government, better measuring and publicising council performance, prioritising core services in council spending, strengthening council accountability and transparency, and providing regulatory relief to councils.
        
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        August 12, 2025 12:02pm
      - RoboRob
        
        @Balanced
        
        Calling voters idiots and thinking they are stupid is how parties lose elections. Just ask Hillary in the USA. Ironically I had already posted on this a bit earlier in the day!
        
        I will note you dont dispute the core of my email, which is that so far Watts has talked about doing things but, after 18mths, actually done nothing much.
        
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        August 12, 2025 12:59pm
      - balanced
        
        Robo. Re the stupid voters. if the cap fits than ill call it out. And I don’t care if calling voters stupid stops me getting elected…. I’m not standing.
        
        It is frustrating that it is taking so long to cross things off the fix NZ list. BUT.. at least we now have a list and passing good legislation, restructuring a public service full of workers hired on skin colour, sexual orientation, and sans penis; isn’t easy, nor is getting the public servants to do quality work.
        
        Plus, the election is looming so next year is the deadline for the things which matter to voters. Reducing our rates will get a lot of votes.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:02pm
      - mogg
        
        50% of people did not vote for Ardern they voted for their share of the free money.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:47pm
- cmm
  
  Thin end of the wedge.
  By 2100 the history will slowly be rewritten that Queen Victoria ceded sovereignty of Britain to the Maori chiefs.
  
  I am sure that limp-wristed King Charles would happily accept that, so maybe it would happen sooner.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:28am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    King Charles will have been dead for 70 years by 2100 what a stupid statement
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:48am
    - Cassandra
      
      Hence the sooner, G. Who is making the stupid statements?
      
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      August 12, 2025 11:03am
    - cmm
      
      We’re already more than halfway to the rewritten history, so I would put my servo pie and 50 cents bet on far sooner. Limp wristed King Chuckie would be perfect to do this in the next year or two.
      
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      August 12, 2025 12:32pm
- Yvette
  
  Maggy, there is no doubt –
  Chris Hipkins was unequivocal.
  
  The leader of Labour was asked to clarify his position on Te Ao with Moana (Whakaata Māori, 8pm Monday).
  
  The issue of Māori sovereignty has been front and centre at major hui throughout the country. Following the Koroneihana (the week-long celebration of King Tūheitia) and after questioning from Greens Co-leader Chloe Swarbrick, the Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon, told Parliament he believed Māori ceded sovereignty to the Crown. On Monday night, Hipkins was adamant he believes otherwise.
  https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/maori-mana-motuhake-former-labour-prime-minister-chris-hipkins-concedes-maori-did-not-cede-sovereignty-opinion/KCXJQTW7HFARDLE2BIHZN2SEKY/
  
  How can one Prime Minister (Hipkins) hold the opposite view to the next (Luxon) on a MAJOR Constitution matter such as this, and previous to these two Ardern could not say what the first clause of the Treaty was about anyway.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:32am
  - pdm
    
    Yvette that would have been all well and good if PM Luxon had stuck to his statement.
    
    A week later at QT he stated he considered that the Treaty was a Partnership and apparently repeated that 8 times in his Waitangi Day speech at Akaroa.
    
    He cannot have it both ways – they are contradictory.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:44am
    - G the giant from Dunedin
      
      He was also asked several times by that fool Chloe if Māori ceded sovereignty and said yes every time
      
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      August 12, 2025 9:55am
      - balanced
        
        Pdm. I implore you to actually read the material you cite to avoid more kb misinformation.
        
        Luxon talked about partnering with iwi on specific projects, like government does with many non iwi organisations.
        
        He also said “National Governments have always worked constructively and productively with Māori on Treaty issues while ensuring equal citizenship and equal opportunity for all New Zealanders.”
        
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        August 12, 2025 10:25am
      - cmm
        
        I really don’t care what people say, especially when they say both something and its opposite.
        
        I care more about what they actually do.
        
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        August 12, 2025 11:52am
  - G the giant from Dunedin
    
    Worse than that, how can Hipkins hold the complete opposite opinion from when he did say Māori ceded sovereignty
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:50am
    - cmm
      
      Why not? Nobody is keeping him accountable, therefore he can say anything he wants.
      
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      August 12, 2025 11:53am
  - Beach Haven expat
    
    It’s almost like one ex PM wants to be the next PM and will say anything to scoop up some votes.
    
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    August 12, 2025 5:54pm
- mandk
  
  Māori never actually ceded sovereignty to the Crown and the Crown never entered into a partnership with Māori.
  
  Why would what was then the most powerful empire the world partner with lawless stone age people? The Brits didn’t do anything remotely similar elsewhere.
  
  Ergo, the Treaty is null and void and we can all get on with life without pretending it means something.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:38am
  - Yvette
    
    Mandk, apparently your conclusion is the “void for uncertainty” or “no meeting of the minds” principle — though in treaties it’s expressed differently than in a simple contract.
    
    In contract law, if two parties sign something but their understandings of the terms are so different that there’s no clear agreement on the essentials, then there’s no true “consensus ad idem” – agreement to the same thing. Without that, the contract can be declared void or unenforceable because no binding obligation was ever truly formed.
    
    In international law, which is where treaties exist, there’s a related idea:
    • A treaty must have a clear, mutually understood text to be valid.
    • If each side interprets it so differently that there’s no shared understanding of core obligations, one might argue the treaty is non-operational or in abeyance.
    • However, international law strongly resists declaring a treaty void simply due to later disagreements; usually, it’s upheld according to the text, even if one side says “We thought it meant something else,” unless it can be shown the treaty was entered under fraud, coercion, or with fundamental misunderstanding at the time of signing – although Prime Ministers not understanding it now, indicates that with all our expanded knowledge, it is claimed the exact wording could not have been understood when signed.
    
    Mandk – “Ergo, the Treaty is null and void”
    That’s basically trying to import the “no meeting of the minds = no agreement” logic from private contract law into the Treaty of Waitangi debate.
    
    The main fault of the Treaty is that it never distinguished “chiefdomship” [rangatiratanga] in the 1835 Declaration of Independence from “governance” [kawanatanga] in the Treaty.
    That is where they fucked up.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:38am
    - balanced
      
      Thanks for that Yvette.
      
      Surely treaties can be null and void if they’re unreasonable or superceded by modern society. E.g., a treaty which agreed to perpetuate slavery
      
      And surely an interpretation of a treaty which is unworkable (dual sovereignty, privileged rights based on ancestory) can be declared null and void?
      
      Surely parties to a sovreign treaty can demand a vote on changing the terms of that treaty?… aka the treaty principals referendum which I predict will take place at the end of Nationals 9 year government term.
      
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      August 12, 2025 11:17am
    - mandk
      
      Thanks for your learned reply, Yvette.
      
      You say my argument that the Treaty is null and void is “… trying to import the “no meeting of the minds = no agreement” logic from private contract law into the Treaty of Waitangi debate.”
      
      But doesn’t that conflict with what you said earlier in your reply: ” … unless it can be shown the treaty was entered under fraud, coercion, or with fundamental misunderstanding at the time of signing …”?
      
      My argument is, in essence, that neither party to the Treaty fully understood what they were signing up to. Is there any need to import any logic from private contract law?
      
      Apologies if I have misunderstood you.
      
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      August 12, 2025 11:34am
      - Local Miller
        
        “My argument is, in essence, that neither party to the Treaty fully understood what they were signing up to”
        
        Except based on the record of the discussions, and in particular, the chiefs statements made on signing the treaty, there was a clear understanding of what was being signed. One Sun in the Sky records enough of this to to prove the point.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:52pm
    - rjay
      
      And that a Treaty is between governments. Were hapu governments?
      It is also clear from contemporary records that the groups who may have agreed to something after Feb 6th didn’t have the same discussions as those on the day.
      
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      August 12, 2025 1:52pm
      - Local Miller
        
        In the context of the 1840s, there was no government in NZ as we have now, there were only scattered tribes (Hapu?), often at war with one another. This is why it was necessary to get signatures from each of the tribal chiefs. While there were the united tribes, they were more a collective than a government.
        The records of the post 6th Feb signings may show there was less discussion, but they don’t show there was less understanding.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:59pm
    - PurplePen
      
      So, is this our case with the treaty – it’s upheld according to the text. The only outstanding issues being clearly defining some key words such as property, protection, taonga, etc? I’m asking to understand.
      
      “However, international law strongly resists declaring a treaty void simply due to later disagreements; usually, it’s upheld according to the text, even if one side says “We thought it meant something else,””
      
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      August 12, 2025 3:53pm
  - rouppe
    
    I read somewhere that it was during an age of a more liberal, inclusive Great Britain.
    
    Yes, Great Britain had not done that previously in India, Africa, Egypt, or anywhere else they planted their flag. But this was now a time of ending slavery, and concentrating on trade rather than conquest.
    
    It hasn’t worked out. I constantly ask people “where is a post colonized region you would rather be? India, Angola, Nigeria, Venezuela?” None can specify one. That should be a pretty clear signal.
    
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    August 12, 2025 11:47am
    - mogg
      
      The East India Company was very liberal minded, they had trading posts and ships.
      
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      August 12, 2025 2:50pm
      - Don Beckett
        
        And supported/protected by the British military – my great great (great?) Grandfather William Nicholson served in India, then retired to NZ in around 1856.
        
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        August 12, 2025 7:33pm
Cassandra

I wonder if Radio New Zealand has any self awareness. It’s running a prominent item on its website this morning about the recognition of Palestine. The entire article is criticism of the NZ Government decision to continue to consider looking at the recognition of a Palestine state rather than doing so now. There is no mention of any other point of view.

An obscure academic is quoted along with Hipkins and Swarbrick. Obviously no attempt to get the other side of the story. Woke governments everywhere eg Australia, France and Britain, mindful of their huge Moslem populations, are recognising the non-existent state of Palestine – half terrorist, half kleptocracy- while sensible countries eg Germany and the US, are holding off. A much better idea. We’re a long way from any workable two-state solution – for one thing a lot of Arab countries have yet to recognise Israel!

The other good idea would be to sack most of the staff of RNZ.
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August 12, 2025 8:10am
- burt
  
  Do RNZ actually employ any editorial or journalist staff?
  
  There is only Labour Party PR consultants on secondment there as far as I can tell.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:24am
  - Inandout
    
    RNZ without taxpayer support would sink. They draw 19,000 listeners on their AM slot.
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:02am
- Chuck Bird
  
  I listen to Hosking rather than RNZ.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:31am
  - Cassandra
    
    You pay for RNZ though. But note I am quoting the website.
    
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    August 12, 2025 8:56am
- cmm
  
  It is interesting to see how much the Wikipedia article on Palestine has changed this year. There seems to be a created consensus.
  
  Palestine has zero interests in a two state solution. There is only a one state solution and that does not include Israel.
  
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  August 12, 2025 8:38am
  - RoboRob
    
    The constant babble about the solution being a ‘two state solution’ is just stupid empty platitudes. Politicians around the world have been banging on about this for decades because they don’t have a real solution. So they crap on about a ‘two state solution’ as if it is a real, viable solution, whilst ignoring the fact that we actually had a two state solution for the last decade. The result was periodic attacks from Palestine at Israel with a response each time from Israel, culminating with an invasion of Israel by Palestine and the slaughter / rape of innocent civilians.
    
    I’m not picking a side here but the gall of PMs / Presidents around the world to talk about a two state solution is just laughable. Meanwhile the public continue to lap it up. Clearly polling shows that a pro Palestine position is popular as we now have Luxon and Peters out jumping on the bandwagon. The only reason for them to get involved is for votes, NZ recognising a Palestinian state achieves nothing and can only hurt NZ.
    
    If Luxon and Winston want to recognise Palestine I hope it is Aoteroa doing the recognition and NZ stays out of it 🙂
    
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    August 12, 2025 9:12am
    - cmm
      
      A two state solutions can work, so long as both the parties want them to work. However when one party just wants the other’s obliteration then there is no chance.
      
      Palestinians have zero interest in forming a peaceful coexistence with Israel.
      
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      August 12, 2025 10:03am
- Paulus
  
  BOP Times NZME baby has a full coloured page of Pro Palestine – I wonder who paid for it, or is it Pro Bono by NZME..
  
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  August 12, 2025 9:10am
  - cmm
    
    Gives the budgie something to shit on.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:04am
  - Inandout
    
    Paulus, a newspaper. How quaint.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:17am
- Prince
  
  Important that Hamas is encouraged. I’m sure once they are officially installed the West can control their homocidal tendencies towards Israel. /s
  
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  August 12, 2025 9:16am
vand

Requirements of Statehood
A settled population,
A defined territory,
An organised government and
The ability to enter into relations with other states.
These were originally set out in the 1933 Montevideo Convention on the Rights and Duties of States.
Interestingly it says the primary interest of states is the conservation of peace .The PA and Hamas don’t want peace but want no Israel.
A problem for recognition of a Palestinian state-remember the Arabs had one offered by the UN in 1947.
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August 12, 2025 8:33am
- cmm
  
  Those in favour of Palestine will argue that all those requirements exist.
  
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  August 12, 2025 11:56am
- Graeme Hall
  
  The US Secretary of State Marco Rubio is of the same mind. ‘Nations that recognize Palestine can’t even say where it is’
  
  https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/412605
  
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  August 12, 2025 3:08pm
Yvette

Winston’s letter to Dr Albert K Barume, UN, Geneva
https://spcommreports.ohchr.org/TMResultsBase/DownLoadFile?gId=39168

Dear Special Rapporteur …
We perfectly understand that the purpose of your letter of 12 June 2025 was to pass on feedback you had received about the New Zealand Government’s policies and give us an opportunity to respond. That is, your letter was not intended to convey your own views.

So it seems to still not be explained, “Who in New Zealand complained to the Special Rapporteur on the rights of Indigenous Peoples, on behalf of the nation, without even saying who they are?”
Know your enemy and know yourself ” – Sun Tzu

In expressing its support for the UN Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples in 2010 New Zealand made clear its position regarding the non-binding status of the declaration, which is not a treaty, and contains a mixture of references to existing rights and non-binding aspirations.
New Zealand also made it clear that New Zealand has its own well-established processes for resolving claims in respect of traditionally held land and resources against the Crown which are grounded in the Treaty of Waitangi …

And there is the matter seldom mentioned: That New Zealand, as a stated coveat in supporting UNDRIP was that any engagement with UNDRIP, said it would be defined by the boundaries of the Treaty of Waitangi.

• reaffirms the legal and constitutional frameworks that underpin New Zealand’s legal system, noting that those existing frameworks define the bounds of New Zealand’s engagement with the declaration.
https://www.beehive.govt.nz/release/national-govt-support-un-rights-declaration

That, for example, was totally dismissed in He Puapua.
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August 12, 2025 8:34am
I remember when

“At the Marae.”
The media have failed to explain why you would use a book which includes Maori words when teaching children how to read English.
Perhaps the Manuels would like a few Spanish words included in their Maori text.
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August 12, 2025 9:01am
- pdm
  
  The Mex and Mr Benjamin Doyle are probably working on that for when the Greens take power at the next election.
  
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  August 12, 2025 9:49am
- Local Miller
  
  If all you are complaining about is the phrase “At the Marae”, then I can’t agree with you. While it could have been “At the Maori Meeting House”, I don’t think this conveys the NZ context of the sentence. The word “Marae” has clearly been absorbed into NZ English and no one referrers to a Marae as a “Maori Meeting House” when talking English. We have hundreds, if not thousands of words that have been absorbed into English, from French, Latin, Spanish, German,… We use Attaché, Ad Hoc, canyon, pilsner to give one example form each, and there are many from other languages.
  If the text is littered with Maori words I’d agree, but common words now used in English, not so much.
  
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  August 12, 2025 3:13pm
  - PurplePen
    
    Except a lot of the Maori words we use in English were forced in rather than acquired naturally. When they’re acquired naturally there’s acceptance as you can see there’s a necessity as the a word might not yet exist in English such as for omelet. With forced Maori words there’s rejection and there’s also the forced requirement to keep the Maori spelling and pronunciation of the Maori word. When words are absorbed into another language the words take on the spelling rules and pronunciation rules of the language they’re absorbed (borrowed) into. If this did not happen, you would end up with a plethora of spelling and pronunciation rules from every different language in English resulting in it almost being impossible to learn. Hence, forcing Maori spelling and pronunciation rules onto a child while they’re trying to learn the rules for English is not very useful.
    
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    August 12, 2025 4:05pm
    - wairarapapaul
      
      Plethora. That means a lot to me.
      
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      August 12, 2025 7:58pm
oldpark

Just read in today’s Lefty Newspaper called the “Post” which also masquerades as “Stuff”.
An article by a person called Andrea Vance who once reported for the infamous now defunct and closed down news outlet with so much alleged scandal an English Newspaper called” The News of the World”.
She seems to delight putting boot into our Prime Minister Luxon as she subtly sets out to vilify him.
Of course Vance would not have known long before she ended up in New Zealand there also was another person who was known as Mrs. 2% Helen Clark. That was in 1998 Helen Clark was also vilified by associates that mirrored Vance’s pathetic comments about NZs who stand up for Public Office.
Interesting Mrs. 2% Helen Clark became NZs Prime Minister in 1999 and was Prime Minister for
(9) =Years.
Hope has Beens or never Wases like the Andrea Vances’ get their facts straight about some facts and figures regarding NZs who commit to Public Office.Nuff Said .
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August 12, 2025 9:20am
- Philview
  
  The NZ media seems to have many subversive agitators in the ranks. They give the impression of wanting New Zealand to fall over as a country to achieve desired ends. Stuff ran an article the other day saying farming isn’t that important to GDP. Basically they are really saying to destroy the political voice of farmers the actual concept of farming will have to be destroyed first.
  
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  August 12, 2025 11:30am
  - BananaLlama
    
    Yes that’s pretty much the attitude in some lefty circles, rather than try and win rural votes they would rather just annihilate them as a political force.
    
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    August 12, 2025 1:46pm
  - Notsofast
    
    Headline herald today national is being pummelled in the polls.
    This is strictly a mature move by voters to Act and NZ First realising we need the 3 solid parties of sanity to hold back the nutters club.
    
    More childish journalism by a young woman.
    
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    August 12, 2025 2:09pm
Damocles11

Nationals dunderheaded rigidity is not paying dividends. The decision is follow the John Key template and just expect that Luxon will eventually win over the public and media if he does the smile and wave nice guy act has now lead to the complete opposite outcome: the media, including taxpayer funded media, walk all over him and the public by and large perceive him as an out-of-touch oddball who stands for nothing in particular. Unfortunately any attempts to get this reality through to the National party faithful is meant with furious denials and claims that the tide is about to turn any day now.
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August 12, 2025 9:30am
- BananaLlama
  
  Minor parties will carry National over the line it will hurt their backs but they will do it and then they will get shat on by smug National types.
  
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  August 12, 2025 10:08am
  - RoboRob
    
    The National party should be concerned about the number of seats they stand to lose. If they dont like Acts policies or working with Peters now, imagine after the next election if Act and NZF pull them over the line.
    
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    August 12, 2025 11:19am
    - rjay
      
      There are only a few list MPs for National, 4 I think. Nicola Willis and Paul Goldsmith should be nervous.
      
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      August 12, 2025 1:54pm
- RoboRob
  
  ‘Unfortunately any attempts to get this reality through to the National party faithful is meant with furious denials and claims that the tide is about to turn any day now’
  
  THIS. I am stunned by some posters here that refuse to admit that National have made any mistakes or that the polling trend might be a problem. Some have even posted, in other words, that the issue is with the voters being too stupid!!!!!
  
  We all know what happens to political parties that refuse to except the issue is with the message and instead blame the voters.
  
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  August 12, 2025 11:22am
  - keepcalmcarryon
    
    To be a true party tribalist of left or right requires willful ignorance.
    
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    August 12, 2025 12:32pm
Hugh Jarse

Nationals PR department is cringeworthy, the Comms coming out of Queenstown particular the ridiculous pavlova stunt was pathetic. Time to get the 16 year olds out and some older more experienced people in there.
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August 12, 2025 9:34am
- pdm
  
  Not to mention `The Cuddle’ even if it was Luxon’s BFF Albanese who acually said those words.
  
  Sickening.
  
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  August 12, 2025 9:52am
- cmm
  
  It is really tin eared to be having silly games with Pavlova when 40,000 people a year (around 120 a day) are packing their bags for a 1-way flight out of NZ.
  
  How is any of this going to encourage people that there is a future in NZ worth staying for?
  
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  August 12, 2025 10:09am
  - lifesgood
    
    I’m currently in OZ. Heads up for all those heading there for a better life. IT IS NO LESS EXPENSIVE THAN NZ. Surely that advice would have trickled through by now. I’ve spent a lot of time comparing prices and the run aways need to know they will be no better off.
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:34am
    - Don Beckett
      
      No less expensive, but maybe 30% more in the pay packet?
      That in the experience of 3 of my grand-daughters – one in Melbourne, 2 in Queensland.
      
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      August 12, 2025 11:27am
    - cmm
      
      life: I know it is hard to believe, but the world is bigger than just Oz.
      
      But you don’t need to convince me.You need to convince the 120 per day that are moving.
      
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      August 12, 2025 11:50am
      - balanced
        
        Stats nz reports a Net migration gain of 26,400 in year ended March 2025.
        
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        August 12, 2025 12:22pm
      - cmm
        
        balanced: Not all people are the same.
        
        We’re losing our young professionals and getting Uber drivers in return. That’s not as good a deal as you think it is.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:37pm
      - balanced
        
        Cmm. You’re getting labour and National mixed up. Taxi driver rort has ended.
        
        Given your admission you don’t care what people say, and your constant posting of the one side of the immigration story which fits your complaining, can you post the references to your claim we’re getting low quality people in?
        
        I do care what people say.
        
        I’m here to learn and I dont want to learn opinionated rubbish.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:54pm
    - Fender
      
      I call you on that
      Discussion with 2 sons that have moved families in the last 3 years tell me there is barely a bill that is higher so don’t know what you’re looking at
      
      6 3
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      August 12, 2025 11:59am
      - lifesgood
        
        Am eating out, shopping at the supermarket, have looked at clothes prices and house prices. Of course people who make the move all gungho are never going to admit it, are they?
        
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        August 12, 2025 12:53pm
      - cmm
        
        life: What matters is not the costs. It is the ratio of earnings to costs.
        
        If you’re earning 40% more, then that’s broadly equivalent to everything costing 30% less.
        
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        August 12, 2025 2:42pm
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VlH9cxoqXo
Diane Calvert Breaks Down Her Wellington Mayoral Policies.
Sean Plunket talks with Wellington mayoral candidate Diane Calvert about her Wellington mayoral policies. Cutting expenditure 5% across the board. Efficiency drive. Layoffs, or a sinking lid. Rates drop for commercial ratepayers. [Sounds like a keeper.]
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August 12, 2025 9:48am
- Steve Todd
  
  A bit more detail, here, https://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=172928#more-172928, about Diane Calvert’s policies.
  
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  August 12, 2025 10:20am
  - sungsamning
    
    Definitely looks like a keeper.
    
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    August 12, 2025 2:37pm
- Gravelroad
  
  Good luck to Ms Calvert, but in reality hasn’t the Wellington mayoralty election been decided already?
  The fix is in for another high profile candidate, isn’t it?
  
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  August 12, 2025 11:13am
  - Steve Todd
    
    The fix is in for another high profile candidate, isn’t it?
    
    No, not at all. Who has the power to put in “the fix”?
    
    The participation rate in Wellington City in 2022 was 43.28%. That means there are an awful lot of Righties out there who decided the 2022 elections were of no interest to them.
    
    I have been saying here for years that if the Right want to achieve a majority on Council*, then they must get out the vote! This time round, it looks like efforts are being made to do that. For example, see https://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=172784#more-172784, especially as it pertains to Better Wellington.
    
    * The Left currently has a 9–7 advantage on Council. Overturning that should not be beyond the bounds of possibility.
    
    In my opinion, the only candidates with a chance of winning are Ray Chung (Independent Together), Diane Calvert (Not Affiliated), and Andrew Little (Labour). (Eastern Ward candidate Karl Tiefenbacher needs a term on Council before he can seriously be considered by the voters.) To be clear, Chung and Calvert are centre-right independents.
    
    Fortunately, here in Wellington we have preferential voting. That means the Left vote will accumulate upon Little and the Right vote will accumulate upon Chung or Calvert. Whichever candidate makes it to 50%+ ahead of the other, will be declared the winner.
    
    It’s solely up to right-leaning voters to participate, and make sure the winner is either Chung or Calvert. If Little wins, it won’t be because The Post, or what/whoever, decided the outcome; it will be because, once again, the Right sat back and allowed it to happen.
    
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    August 12, 2025 12:53pm
  - sungsamning
    
    Probably. Its a pity there has to be another three years with stupid people in charge. I’d have liked to seen a pendulum swing now.
    
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    August 12, 2025 2:38pm
    - Steve Todd
      
      Probably.
      
      Nonsense. If the fix is probably in, who did it, and what exactly did they do to effect it? Also, given there has been no polling, how do you know there is not a “pendulum swing” happening now?
      
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      August 12, 2025 5:22pm
- RoboRob
  
  I thought Diane Calvert came accross terribly in that interview. I wanted her to be a good option, but her ‘policies’ sounded just like everyone else. Promising the world but no plan to actually deliver.
  
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  August 12, 2025 11:25am
sungsamning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeORV0iVp54
Pope Leo XIV Just Said the Unthinkable.
The Vatican is in chaos. Pope Leo XIV just made a move that has stunned the world, and the Catholic Church may never be the same.
In a quiet, shocking move, the Pope has removed six of the most powerful cardinals from their positions, gutting the old guard of the Vatican in a single morning. This wasn’t a political shuffle; it was a spiritual earthquake. Some are calling it a long-overdue cleansing—a return to the humble roots of the faith. Others are calling it a dangerous overreach of power, the beginning of a modern schism that could tear the Church apart.
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August 12, 2025 9:48am
- Gravelroad
  
  No disrespect to anyone’s faith etc (and just to lighten the mood a little):- we have a heading dog pup here named Pope Leo. He was born around the time of the papal election earlier this year.
  Time is coming when he will be displacing some of the old guard around here and he might become top dog.
  In the meantime, his main skill is catching the water fired out of grandson’s water pistol.
  True story. Loves it.
  
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  August 12, 2025 11:20am
- Don Beckett
  
  I watched only the first few minutes. It is a load of bollocks. It even sounds like another couple of AI generated articles that have other messages which are false.
  Don’t believe what many articles on youtube say about the Catholic Church unless they are from a verified source – the enemies of the Church are alive and active as they have been for 20 centuries already.
  
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  August 12, 2025 11:37am
  - Northshoredoc
    
    “the enemies of the Church are alive and active as they have been for 20 centuries already”
    
    The Illuminati and the reverse vampires?
    
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    August 12, 2025 1:43pm
    - Don Beckett
      
      That’s a couple of them – there’s more yet. 😆
      
      1 1
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      August 12, 2025 3:16pm
  - Local Miller
    
    I don’t watch clips like that, that have a deadpan narration and random pictures of the subject with no supporting footage or documentation. I stopped watching after about 15 seconds.
    
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    August 12, 2025 3:39pm
Southern Raider

Looks like Phil Goff had a very expensive repair bill for one of his rentals after it became a meth kitchen

Sounds like karma to me
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August 12, 2025 10:19am
- Phronesis
  
  Perhaps, or perhaps he’s writing off capital improvements as maintenance on his tax return.
  
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  August 12, 2025 12:05pm
- Notsofast
  
  It sounds like Phil has wasted his money.
  If secondary contact meth was dangerous all direct users would be dead.
  
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  August 12, 2025 2:04pm
  - Ian Boag
    
    If you do the sums on just about any level of meth contamination it comes out waaay below what might harm even. The rules are bananas.
    
    The worst case is that a crawling toddler might pick some up off the carpet. But carpets are never tested because it’s too hard. Go figure.
    
    Otherwise the basic issue is whether occupants get to breathe meth or pick it up off door handles or by rubbing wallpaper. The breathing bit is not happening because it’s not all that volatile. If it was it would all be gone (evaporated) pretty quick.
    
    I think there are still rules which have gone from totally idiotic (thanks Sir Peter) to merely a bit silly. Why pick on Phil anyway? He’s just another landlord beaten round the head with this nonsense.
    
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    August 12, 2025 2:20pm
- AitchW
  
  Should have got the meth extension on his landlords insurance.
  
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  August 12, 2025 5:57pm
Steve Todd

.
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August 12, 2025 10:24am
sirknz

It’s fake hate crime season for Auckland Council candidates again…

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/unattended-bag-prompts-evacuation-of-aucklands-aotea-square/CEPPNEHVFVFY7JVH3MTGNXLK2U/

They even mention Efeso Collins’ ‘road rage’ incident which had nothing to do with him or the vehicle with his mug all over it.

Does anybody else find it suspicious, perhaps convenient, that after the elections there are no fake hate crimes or personal attacks on any of the candidates?

[Mod – is this the link you meant to post https://www.nzherald.co.nz/kahu/auckland-mayoral-candidate-kerrin-leoni-says-she-was-abused-putting-up-her-signage-police-called/D7TCC7ILLJE3RDKNPHJUQLEZNA/ ]
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August 12, 2025 10:50am
- sirknz
  
  Thanks Mod Gods, when you’ve got the work group chat up and you’re sharing different articles while doing your job in between…
  
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  August 12, 2025 1:55pm
nathie

Two Chinese military vessels (a warship and coast guard vessel) collided amongst themselves whilst trying to chase (and possibly ram) a Philippines coast guard vessel yesterday.

Here’s a detailed recording of the event. Looks like the Chinese military’s typically aggressive and unprofessional conduct has this time backfired against them and sadly there is speculation their own crew may have been severely injured or killed (footage shows them at the bow of the coast guard vessel just before the collision). Then to cap it off the warship doesn’t offer assistance to its fellow stricken vessel and its crew.

https://x.com/raffytima/status/1954869527080042791

Also, will Helen and Don continue to turn another blind eye against CCP’s aggressive antics in an area literally hundreds of miles from its own shores that it claims (against a UN ruling no less) that “it owns”? How long before such antics occur in the South Pacific – the CCP is already offering its coast guard to patrol Pacific waters and to board vessels i.e. act as regional Police enforcement.
https://www.reuters.com/en/china-demonstrates-coast-guard-capability-pacific-nations-step-towards-high-seas-2025-06-06/#:~:text=China%20registered%2026%20coast%20guard,have%20the%20biggest%20inspection%20fleets.
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August 12, 2025 11:28am
- Local Miller
  
  I saw the Chinese vessel collision on YouTube. The joke is so on the Chinese when the Philippines’ coast guard hails then offering assistance. I wonder it it was ever accepted.
  Those 3 on the bow were definitely taken out!
  
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  August 12, 2025 3:43pm
surfing

Isn’t Mark Mitchell more awesome today?

Dudes a hero!
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August 12, 2025 11:58am
infused

Stuff running their Gaza porn 24/7.

Misleading stories everywhere, including the latest from Helen Clark.

Aid is being dropped all over Gaza and being held by Hamas.
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August 12, 2025 11:58am
cmm

So Auntie Helen and her gaggle of wrinklies visited the Gaza border for a photo op.

They want “peace”.

Well all you need for peace is for the Gazans to put down their weapons and send the hostages home.

Absolutely nothing stops that.

But no, peace is not really what they want.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360788445/after-going-gaza-border-and-seeing-aid-get-turned-back-helen-clark-had-withering-words-nz
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August 12, 2025 12:13pm
- cmm
  
  It is interesting to see the wording used.
  
  Helen Clark says a truck carrying food and medical aid was “turned away”. Another person says the truck was “stopped”.
  
  So what is the truth here? I obviously don’t have any on the ground insights here, but clearly:
  * Thousands of trucks are getting through as they need something like 100 trucks a day minimum just to feed the people (refer someone else’s calculations today).
  * All those trucks need to be searched to ensure military supplies are not being smuggled in.
  * All those trucks need to be escorted to the logistical depots so that Hamas terrorists do not strip them.
  * That means personnel need to be available. Sometimes trucks will have to be held back until resources are available to do the searching and escourting.
  * Sometimes trucks will need to wait.
  * Sometimes priority will be given to other loads, so trucks will be bumped back in the queue.
  * Sometimes trucks (and their drivers) will lack proper documentation etc and will be turned back to get it.
  
  I do not believe that Clark is a reliable narrator here. When she says the truck was “turned back” does that perhaps mean “sent away to get proper paperwork”? It very likely does not mean that legitimate goods were preventing from entering Gaza to deliberately deprive the Gazans.
  
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  August 12, 2025 12:29pm
- Northshoredoc
  
  The vast majority of the Gazans have no weapons or anything else for that matter and Hamas has no intention of putting down their weapons.
  
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  August 12, 2025 1:45pm
- Hugh Jarse
  
  Wasn’t Helen in charge of that part of the UN that distributed the welfare funds to Hamas which was then diverted into their massive tunnelling operation and employed Hamas fighters as UN workers ?. Did Helen know about the drug operations of Hamas, that a large number of Hamas leaders were living high on the hog in various middle eastern tourist spots ?.
  
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  August 12, 2025 1:52pm
- cmm
  
  If Auntie H wants to complain about the genocide of Gazans, maybe she should point her [Mod – deleted] finger at Hamas.
  
  If Hamas put just a tenth of their engineering effort that they used for tunnel building into something constructive and peaceful, Gaza could be a paradise.
  
  Imagine if Hamas had built desalination plants? The place would have abundant water.
  
  Imagine if they were not war mongers? Goods could flow in and out without being searched or blockaded.
  
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  August 12, 2025 2:47pm
cmm

We live in a very stupid world in which we want a get out of jail card for all the decisions we make.

Canterbury mental health services are being “slammed” for allowing a patient out who then went to kill two people.

But if they’d kept him locked up, exactly the same people would be complaining about harsh treatment.

You can’t judge decisions based on outcomes – only on the information available at the time the decision was made. Decisions are often made with incomplete information (especially when mental patients are concerned) and undesirable results can often occur.

It is worth an eye-rolling to see that the same report that admonishes the services for being overworked and under staffed also insists that:

“A “siloed culture and care model” impeded cohesion between disciplines, while the incorporation of te ao Māori remained inadequate”

Perhaps all the extra layer of Maori mumbo-jumbo is actually causing problems with overwork and staff retention? Maybe adding this “te ao Maori” bollocks is making things worse?

Radical statement, I know.

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch/canterbury-mental-health-services-slammed-in-new-report-after-patients-killed-two-people/2KTDXP37XFH7HIOJ7AOMA47U4U/
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August 12, 2025 12:41pm
Colville

I dont know how it happened but I appear to have gotten on Stuffs auto approve moderation list!

So I am being polite and seeing what I cant get away with 🙂
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August 12, 2025 12:59pm
- greybeard
  
  I noticed that a few days ago: where once my comments were either moderated ( or more likely ignored ) it is now common for them to instantly appear ! Perhaps there is nobody home…..
  [ Mod – you aren’t on the free list – ask DPF if you want to be ]
  
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  August 12, 2025 1:55pm
Ghost

An Invercargill mayoral hopeful has been slammed by fellow candidates after his party website looks to have posted “dangerous” and sexually disturbing content online.

Gordon McCrone is standing for the top job under an unofficial party for which he is listed as the only staff member. His nomination is listed as pending approval on the Invercargill City Council website.

Article

The website makes this guy look like a complete nut job and more.
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August 12, 2025 1:06pm
- Swifty
  
  I read it this morning.
  
  It’s a wonder the guy can hold down a job, especially when he masturbates 10 times a day.
  
  😱
  
  3 2
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  August 12, 2025 1:24pm
Swifty

Helen Clark is full of bovine excrement.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/nz-news/360788445/after-going-gaza-border-and-seeing-aid-get-turned-back-helen-clark-had-withering-words-nz

There are tens and tens of conflicts going on around the world, including some which have taken many more lives than Hamas/Israel.

Has she visited those places recently? Has she spoken about those conflicts recently? Has she attacked the NZ government about those conflicts and our position on them recently?

No she has not.

She just picks the one which gives her space to attack the US, and to give National and NZ First a few swipes as well.

And what are her words of condemnation and damnation for Hamas and their backers who started this latest conflict?

Not a peep.

Oh, and there she is with that genocide word again. The left continue to cheapen the word until it is now pretty much meaningless – especially now that prohibiting trans blokes from entering women’s bathrooms is now considered literal genocide, as is insisting Maori have the same rights as anyone else.

If anyone has genocidal intent it is of course Hamas and their backers and supporters who insist daily that if they had the means (and ‘god willing’) they would wipe Israel off the map and hunt down and slaughter every single Jew until none remain.

Helen Clark has lost her moral compass. Her hatred of the US and Trump renders her reckons on Gaza and Israel as worthless.

She has completely lost the ability, if she ever had it, to determine who is the bad guy.

If she had her way Israel would be destined to suffer bombardment, rocketry, incursions and murderous raids from Gaza in perpetuity.

As for me, I’m with Israel all the way.

All the way.
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August 12, 2025 1:21pm
- greybeard
  
  Me too.
  Why? “Six million Jews. Never again”.
  
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  August 12, 2025 7:55pm
- Graeme Hall
  
  I presume our brave principled feminist fighter, Helen Clark, flew into Israel (at our expense as an ex-PM), the one democratic country in the Middle East where she could mouth off against our Govt and the USA without risk. Why not go into Gaza and encourage the women there to rise up against their status as chattels? It is all theatrics for Helen – always was, always will be.
  
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  August 12, 2025 9:29pm
  - Ghost
    
    We do not pay for her international travel
    
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    August 12, 2025 10:30pm
    - Graeme Hall
      
      True from the Govt, but I who donates to her trust – not grateful members of the international community. More like NZers of the Leftish persuasion.
      
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      August 13, 2025 9:33am
Jack5

Problems in the Mental Health service are blowing up. They’re centred on staffing shortages. This while Mental Health Minister Doocey fluffs around with a campaign to “Top up with everyday actions that promote better mental health.”

The Doocey strategy on mental health seems to focus on counselling the depressed and even the chronically lonely rather than reinforce the over-stretched services for seriously mentally ill. It’s failed.

Mental hospitals are jammed to over-full, and there’s a shortage of psychiatrists, clinical psychologists and psych. nurses.

A report into two murders by psychiatric patients in Christchurch says critical staffing shortages were the most significant and prevailing issue, with daily struggles to maintain minimum safe staffing levels across adult inpatient, community, and forensic services. The report, which the Herald describes as scathing, has found “significant failings” with Canterbury mental health services. It recommends major changes to prevent a repeat of the “tragic events of 2022 and 2024”, when psychiatric patients murdered innocent people in the community.

The NZ Herald report of the report includes:

Critical staffing shortages were the most significant and prevailing issue, the report found, with daily struggles to maintain minimum safe staffing levels across adult inpatient, community, and forensic services.

Forensic mental health services faced particular challenges, with concerns over an imbalance in the junior to senior staff ratio that could lead to safety risks.

Health care was always going to be a key issue at next year’s election. The Coalition’s splitting of mental health from the main health portfolio hasn’t worked.

The Herald report:

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/christchurch/canterbury-mental-health-services-slammed-in-new-report-after-patients-killed-two-people/2KTDXP37XFH7HIOJ7AOMA47U4U/
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August 12, 2025 1:40pm
- Jack5
  
  Oh dear, the report includes this:
  
  “We recognise the irrefutable evidence of Māori health inequity and acknowledge the ongoing impacts of colonisation, racism and social determinants
  of health are major contributing factors to inequitable health outcomes for Māori.
  
  You can download the full report here:
  https://www.health.govt.nz/system/files/2025-08/Section-99-Inspection-Canterbury%E2%80%93Waitaha-august2025-redacted.pdf
  
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  August 12, 2025 2:46pm
Swifty

What an absolute bullshit article.

https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/569737/nz-woman-sarah-shaw-and-six-year-old-son-detained-by-us-immigration-reports

Is she in the US legally or illegally RNZ?

“Waiting for a green card” and “having some immigration documents” are meaningless statements – except that their vagueness seems to me like a deliberate attempt to mislead.

You really do suck RNZ. You should be ashamed – but anything to get at Trump eh?
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August 12, 2025 2:24pm
- Ghost
  
  Originally entering the U.S. sponsored by her ex-husband, Shaw is now in the process of seeking a green card independently under a domestic violence survivor’s provision.
  
  Article
  
  4 2
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  August 12, 2025 2:33pm
  - MCōs
    
    She wasn’t in the USA. She was attempting to pass through immigration at the airport as I understand the situation.
    That being the case why wasn’t she turned back until she sorted out the paperwork — instead of detaining her thousands of miles away in Texas
    Maybe she was given the option and chose to press on.
    
    1 6
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    August 12, 2025 4:13pm
- Phronesis
  
  Sure it’s a bullshit article but it’s also clearly an engineered situation. Some left wing employee at customs is trying to make the administration look stupid by applying the rules in this particular case as harshly as possible. Oh look at this nice white woman and her poor child, we can’t let her in unless we let hordes of 3rd world immigrants in too. Given the woman actually works for a very left wing part of the US government, I wouldn’t entirely rule out her being complicit in the story.
  
  6 2
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  August 12, 2025 2:50pm
  - Tom Hunter
    
    [Mod – give the link whoring a break]
    
    0 1
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    August 12, 2025 11:51pm
- Local Miller
  
  I’d not be at all surprised if her paper’s weren’t in order that she would be held by immigration. She effectively left the USA to go into Vancouver, and despite what the rest of the world may think, Vancouver is in Canada. In our context, that’s like leaving NZ to visit Australia. Easy to do, but not advisable if you are on a non-return visa.
  ” Shaw had work authorization but not travel permissions”
  During my 3rd year in NZ, my father back in South Africa passed away. I was still on a limited visa and had to specifically arrange a reentry visa so I could go back and “bury” my father. If I’d not arranged the visa NZ could legally have refused to allow me back into the country.
  
  10 1
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  August 12, 2025 4:03pm
mogg

Interesting comparison, over the road from us gutter and top of downpipe clean on two storey house.
Two trucks arrived to erect approx 4 mt of scaffolding, at times four men on site, lots of hi-vis and hats. Four day job.
Today just along the road a white van arrives with aluminium extension ladder on roof rack. Youngish man gets out, extension ladder on his shoulder, neighbour points him towards 2nd storey gutter and downpipe. Ladder extended onto high level fascia, young man ascends and scoops out debris, he repeats this in five different places along guttering, then uses a hose for final clean. Whole operation took 16 mins, and that includes him stopping to send a text while at top of ladder.
No hi-vis or hard hat to be seen. Kindly neighbour brings him a cup of coffee or tea.
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August 12, 2025 3:23pm
Hugh Jarse

I see Chippys new Finance Minister got thrown out of Parliament today. Sounded like a 13 yr old throwing a tanty.
12 1
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August 12, 2025 4:21pm
Ghost

Kitchen cleaner has been kicked out of the house for the week

https://www.stuff.co.nz/politics/360605837/live-nz-politics-blog

Someone really should start up a go fund me page for the kitchen staff. Imagine not having the funding to dry your tea towels, instead having to wear them around your neck to dry them.
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August 12, 2025 4:41pm
- cmm
  
  I think that it is wrong for MPs to be allowed to wear political symbols, especially of foreign entities, in the House.
  
  I don’t really mind her expressing the point of view that some MPs might be spineless. It is a statement of fact. Many are. Any MP that suffers PTSD after that does not belong there.
  
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  August 12, 2025 5:17pm
- graham
  
  Delusions of grandeur – claiming that the Greens are leading the Opposition and see themselves as leading the “next Government” – and now goes completely out of control and gets booted out of the house.
  
  Methinks Ms Swarbrick needs to lay off whatever she’s currently smoking or imbibing, and take a chill pill.
  
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  August 12, 2025 5:27pm
Maggy Wassilieff

Oh Grief…

The RNZ news reader on this afternoon’s ‘Checkpoint” doesn’t know how to pronounce chasm korrektly.
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August 12, 2025 4:51pm
MCōs

From Humans of New York Facebook page

“When I entered Gaza the Israeli military had a rule: I was only allowed to bring in seven pounds of food. As I was weighing out protein bars, trying to get under the limit, I said to my husband: ‘How sinister is this?’ I’m a humanitarian aid worker. Why would there even be a limit on food? I’ve worked in many places with extreme hunger, but what’s so jarring in this context is how cruel it is, how deliberate. I was in Gaza for two months; there’s no way to describe the horror of what’s happening. And I say this as a pediatric ICU doctor who sees children die as part of my work. Among our own staff we have doctors and nurses who are trying to treat patients while hungry, exhausted. They’re living in tents. Some of them have lost fifteen, twenty members of their families. In the hospital there are kids maimed by airstrikes: missing arms, missing legs, third degree burns. Often there’s not enough pain medication. But the children are not screaming about the pain, they’re screaming: ‘I’m hungry! I’m hungry!” I hate to only focus on the kids, because nobody should be starving. But the kids, it just haunts you in a different way. When my two months were finished, I didn’t want to leave. It’s a feeling I haven’t experienced in nearly twenty years of humanitarian assignments. But I felt ashamed. Ashamed to leave my Palestinian colleagues, who were some of the most beautiful and compassionate people that I’ve ever met. I was ashamed as an American, as a human being, that we’ve been unable to stop something that is so clearly a genocide. I remember when our bus pulled out of the buffer zone. Out the window on one side I could see Rafah, which was nothing but rubble. On the other side was lush, green Israel. When we exited the gate, the first thing I saw was a group of Israeli soldiers, sitting at a table, eating lunch. I’ve never felt so nauseous seeing a table full of food.”

——————————————————-

Aqsa Durrani is a pediatric doctor and board member of Doctors Without Borders USA, with nearly twenty years of experience in humanitarian projects. During our interview Aqsa repeatedly expressed a desire to center the voices of her Palestinian colleagues. To this end I’ve spent the past week collecting stories from the Palestinian staff of Médecins Sans Frontières / MSF in Gaza. I will be sharing these stories over the next several days. I’m so grateful for the time that these people gave me; they were sleepless, hungry, traumatized, and often working 24-hour shifts. Because of the unreliable internet connection their images are sometimes grainy. Their words, however, will be crystal clear.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02EtP3vHKzgLvQUup79TgwBCywq8TNdbRTyP93YPgf8nvPxCztQqxAsbB9LVVy9Nvwl&id=100050429952420
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August 12, 2025 5:25pm
- marcw
  
  When the Palestinians love their children more than they hate the Israelis, then there will be an opportunity to end their wars.
  
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  August 12, 2025 5:38pm
- Fender
  
  Ashamed to leave my palestine colleagues
  Yeah sounds really unbiased reporting
  
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  August 12, 2025 6:41pm
- Dave
  
  On the other side was lush, green Israel.
  
  To over-simplify somewhat…
  
  I expect the climate is the same on both sides of the border, so why the difference? When Israel evacuated Gaza 20 years ago, productive greenhouses were left behind. What happened to them?
  
  On one side of the US-Mexico border is a wealthy society, on the other side a much poorer society. Why?
  
  I guess the people of Gaza have had a lot of bad luck.
  
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  August 12, 2025 7:25pm
  - cmm
    
    If Hamas put a tenth of the engineering resources they put into terror tunnels into making water desalination plants then Gaza would be a rich, green oasis.
    
    Their focus is on terror – not the welfare of the Gazans.
    
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    August 13, 2025 8:45am
Ghost

Jobs at the Reserve Bank could be slashed by nearly a quarter, as the hiring spree that occurred under Adrian Orr’s leadership is unwound.

The bank is working through the third and final phase of a restructure that is proposed to see a net reduction of 142 roles, including 35… vacant positions.

This will come on top of a net 15 leadership roles being reduced under prior phases of the restructure.

Article
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August 12, 2025 6:43pm

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Kiwi FireWalker

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