Political Wisdom
August 31st, 2006 at 6:23 am by David FarrarJordan Carter has had lots of advice for National on how its current focus on corruption in Labour won’t work. Some quotes:
As for the rest, the simmering anger from the opposition won’t have been diminished by landing no real blows in Parliament this week. The tide has begun to turn on the election funding issues,
It is that fundamental political integrity which people understand and which drives Labour’s continued high public support, along with the record breaking popularity ratings of Helen Clark.
I suspect much the same result is likely – i.e. no payoff for National other than them trending ever more towards looking unfit to govern the country.
National’s obsessive focus on side issues isn’t paying off for that party politically.
His colleague Tony Milne has also been full of advice:
Thank goodness people are not paying attention to this issue,
National are simply trying to score political points but don’t have a case. Not that that message is getting through from the media.
Oh, yes for those who missed it, today’s Herald Digi-poll now has Labour 8% behind National.
But there is good news for Labour. If they come out and make an unequivocal statement on Taito Phillip Field (along the lines of what the unions are now saying) and also agree to respect the law in terms of electoral and parliamentary funding, then I suspect it will go back to neck and neck.
Related posts:
- State Funding of Political Parties
- The US Political Party Quiz
- State Funded Political Parties
- Edwards on Political Finance
August 31st, 2006 at 6:50 am
I agree indeed I gave the bloke some advice. Sack Phillip Field from the Labour Party very easy decision. And pay back the $800,000 which is only 16k per Labour MP. Not much for people on 100k+ incomes. Easy peasy.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 7:02 am
Well, let’s wait for the frothy comments from the usual suspects claiming that The Herald and Digi-Poll are all in the pay of the vast right-wing conspiracy.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 7:31 am
lets just hope National are not like the all blacks of the last 20 years…. ahead of everyone…between world cups…
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 7:37 am
Labour supporters tend to amaze me. They don’t recognise any wrong in their party.
Chris Trotter’s article in the SST left me dumfounded. I knew he was a Labour supporter but he is supposed to be an intelligent man. He said that using taxpayer funds for election purposes was OK because it kept National out. The idea of National getting in was unthinkable. I wondered if he considered a Labour member would be justified in robbing a bank to get election funds to keep National out.
It is unfortunate that events like Taito Field do tend to fade in the public’s memory. They are not election influencing issues unless they happen close to the election. It is true National have to come up with strong policies to beat Labour. My hope is that Helen has run out of ammunition with the last election bribes. Though I suspect Michael Cullen will find he can give personal tax cuts after all to undercut Brash’s policies.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 7:39 am
Labour supporters tend to amaze me. They don’t recognise any wrong in their party.
Chris Trotter’s article in the SST left me dumfounded. I knew he was a Labour supporter but he is supposed to be an intelligent man. He said that using taxpayer funds for election purposes was OK because it kept National out. The idea of National getting in was unthinkable. I wondered if he considered a Labour member would be justified in robbing a bank to get election funds to keep National out.
It is unfortunate that events like Taito Field do tend to fade in the public’s memory. They are not election influencing issues unless they happen close to the election. It is true National have to come up with strong policies to beat Labour. My hope is that Helen has run out of ammunition with the last election bribes. Though I suspect Michael Cullen will find he can give personal tax cuts after all to undercut Brash’s policies.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 8:01 am
Now if we stand by with some turbines and harness the spin from the usual released into the community suspects we’ll be able to power Auckland for the next 50 years.
I labour keeps up this “popular and competant” method then National will be governing alone and doing it well before this term was due to end.
Spin little flying monkeys, spin.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 8:49 am
Well thats the next election in the bag for National…..
No you don’t believe it either do you?
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 9:20 am
Of course I don’t. However if Labour are just stupid enough to retrospectively legislate their illegal expenditure, then that might be enough.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 9:33 am
I voted for Labour at the last election … yeah, shut it.
But now, National would have to make the legalisation of paedophilia their no. 1 campaign issue for me to give my vote to Ms Clark next time.
And as for each MP choking up $16K to pay back their $800,000 debt to the taxpayer, well good luck on that.
If Helen Clark can’t get one scuzzy MP to reconsider his career options, I doubt she can get dozens to contribute part of the salaries that they already probably spent on donations to ‘Theatre Practitioners against the genocide in Iraq’.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 9:48 am
Of course the other issue that it still doesn’t solve for National is that at the moment they stil *need* to Govern alone ‘cos there just isn’t that many ways for them to string a *competent* coalition together.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 9:54 am
Welcome to the dark side Skaevola.
How would you describe the current cobbled job as “competent” iiq374?
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 10:12 am
Actually, I am surprised that National does not have a larger lead. The combination of two different scandals, both of which can be labelled as “corruption” (and one definitely is), should result in a bigger dive. New Zealanders are, in my opinion, some of the most honest people around, and corruption is a big no-no. Hence I would have thought a bigger fall for Labour would have happened.
However, Bob Clarkson is not helping out the National party on bit. Nor is having an ineffective party leader.
It looks, at this point, that National is most likely going to win the 2008 election. I would put it at about 65% to Labour’s 35%.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 10:50 am
Jordan Carter is pissing into a force 9 gale someone should tell him to face the other way, but so sad never mind, his soul belongs to the dark side.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 11:03 am
(psst..!..don’t tell anyone..esp don…!..)..
but this little/temporary upward blip is good news for the vast left wing conspiracy…
‘cos the best chances for national to get nailed next time out..is still having the combover kid and the anorexic one fronting them..
so..this’ll shut up those conspiring/agitating to roll brash..
a bad poll now could well have been his deathknell..
but no…!..
we are saved…!..(tee-hee..!..)
roll on 2008…!
(but remember..don’t tell any nats..eh..?..)
phil(whoar.co.nz
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 11:04 am
Sorry Greg, can’t see it. Running against Peace and Prosperity is no easy task.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 11:14 am
Bob Howard, I don’t think I have ever seen Trotter write a favourable article about Labour. I think the DomPost only “trot” him our as “From the left” because they know he is guaranteed to get stuck in to Labour with whom he seems to have a hate hate relationship. I hardly see this most recent effort as designed to bolster Labour’s case.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 1:13 pm
National could easily get elected if they could move to the centre. But it seems that their focus the longer they’re out of power is to move further to the right, like a compressing spring, perhaps on the assumption that at some point they will be released and can make up for all that lost time.
Personally, I see them getting reelected some time in the next ten years. The party in power is the only one in a position to make mistakes, big or small, so if hammering little mistakes is all National has got, eventually they could build enough pressure. They could get there sooner, though, if they had some ideas.
Currently their game plan is like the Wallabies – they rely on targetting key players, and waiting for mistakes. This means their running game never gets any practise, and they can never beat the All Blacks on a good day. But politics is like Rugby, a funny old game, and if the English can win the World Cup, then National can win the next election.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 1:45 pm
Field may, or may not, endure as an MP to 2008. He may remain an MP and not re-stand. But this will not an nationwide election issue then, though perhaps one in an electorate (though this does not look likely).
As to the campaign overspending and the source of the money Labour was spending (two issues sometimes confused), as this part of the wider issue of party funding and campaign financing, this will be one of the policy issues in 2008 (but amongst many others). Shaped within the context of ensuring democratic mandate is not being bought and sold as a commodity by those with the most money (and maintaining what is left of local ownership of our economy), it’s not one National has had an advantage on.
But it is possible that an incumbent government is not being seen as accountable as it should and National can certainly exploit that between elections, as this is the role of opposition and media. However, it’s not an election winner by itself and it may even prove to be of neglible impact depending on what unfolds.
National wants to both make the allegations and then judge the results – state their facts/spin. They need to avoid undermining respect for due process, it’s the opposition form of hubris.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 1:52 pm
When reading Jordan’s advice for some reason I had Matthew Hootens name in my head. After reading it I thought for a bit & decided ‘nah – I don’t agree with this, it’s rubbish’.
Now that I know it’s Labour party hack Jordan I can dismiss it out of hand.
8 point lead is looking good. Just yesterday Sonic commented that the Nats should have a 10 point lead @ this stage in the electoral cycle – so he wasn’t far off.
I don’t understand why Klark does so well in the preferred PM stakes. She’s a vile, deceptive woman who believes herself to be both ‘popular & competent’.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 2:07 pm
Phillip Field was a very good fund-raiser for the Labour Party in South Auckland. He could cut up rough as if they push him too far on that score. I bet Field knows where a lot of bodies are buried. But if Field is on “leave” how can the Labour Party claim to have his vote.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 2:12 pm
I understand Clark’s success. It’s because she appeals to a wider demographic than her rivals. Women, and the lower half of the wealth demographic, and anyone foreign, are particularly aligned. That’s a lot of people.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 2:22 pm
Ben – you seem like an intelligent character, National coiled spring?
I look past Brash/Clark then you get into the Meharey/English – Key/Goff -Collins/King match ups then Labour have a pack of retards like Mallard, Hodson, and my personal fave Rick the big dick, sorry but Labour have traded on Clark and she has surrounded herself with dimwits, unfortunately now when she needs back up they are either old and worn out (Cullin) or want to stick around a bit longer (Jones) and won’t get soiled in her crap. She owns these two latest shit burgers lock stock and barrel.
Greg – Clarkson is Clarkson he is saying out loud what most normal people are thinking.
Vote:Ineffective leader? are you talking about Brash, I thought he interviewed extremely well on Willy Jacksons show “Nose to Ass” the other night, to the point where Jackson changed his silly interview style so as to not look more inept. Brash 2 Willy 0.
August 31st, 2006 at 2:29 pm
Clark’s performance in the polls is dead-easy to explain; NZ PMs almost ALWAYS rate highly in the polls for preferred PM. It goes with incumbency, regardless of occupant.
As for Jordan, I used to think he was serious in what he wrote, but now I realise he just says this stuff to wind-up rght-wing readers, see how big a bite he can get.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 2:36 pm
Culma, I don’t buy the ‘National’s deep talent pool’ line. You never know who’s going to be an effective leader until they have a go. Lange was an unknown dark horse. English already had a go and was utterly useless, despite being someone quite talented, in my partisan opinion. Palmer had a good mind but no leadership ability. Moore was an effective minister but a joke as leader of the opposition. I always thought Bolger was an utter dimwit, but he seemed pretty good at running the country, in a National sort of way. Clark came across very poorly in her early years as leader of opposition, but found stride later on.
I mean, if George Bush can be elected to head the world’s most powerful nation, any cretin can, with the right backing.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 3:07 pm
Ben – couldn’t agree more with every comment you have just made.
Was Clark voted in as the PM, voted in because people thought DAMN this ones the one for me, or had they had enough of National and the then PM Shipley, I personally think the latter. As you said Bolger knew when to get out, (I wouldn’t piss on him if he were burning). The man I wish had of hit the scene in the MMP era at the start of his career is Doug Graham, him I respect.
Clark is about to suffer the same fate as Muldoon, he thought his shit didn’t stink and then it was fed back to him in large chunks.
She will go the same way because she has the same persona, the “I’m the leader shut up and get back in line” attitude, but the country have had a guts full of being lied to and treated like Idiot’s. Same as Muldoon.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 3:50 pm
I don’t think Clark’s anywhere near as power mad as Muldoon. She does trust her ministers to handle their portfolios, and knows when to cave on issues. I can’t imagine anything like the Springboks happening under her, or the near bankrupting of the nation out of simple spite.
I can imagine her slamming members of the opposition, but that’s expected of everyone in Parliament.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 4:12 pm
Time will tell, funny how different people see different colours through the same pair of glasses.
Don’t you believe it – she’d back the tour if it meant she got another term exactly as Muldoon did.
PS – The tour was great I enjoyed the game I went to, people expressed their democratic right to protest I exercised mine to watch my home side get hammered, loved it.
Vote:August 31st, 2006 at 6:14 pm
The AB’s lost the test in Wellington, and anti-tour protestors were taunting the crowd after the game saying “ya lost” (how were they backing the Boks to win pre TAB sports betting?).
Being the cynic I am, I taunted them back about their ignorance of the Maori issue in New Zealand (don’t leave home till you’ve seen the country – as if they would have read about that issue in the Socialist Action League university magazines, where is PAC now anyhow merged into ANC and disapppeared without trace).
Vote:September 1st, 2006 at 7:45 am
National can win on these issues here, because this sort of thing IS an election winner (unlike many other strategies I have seen political parties take which were inevitably a waste of effort), but it is an uphill fight as per Ben’s comment – national has surendered the apparent (and that is what matters) centre to Labour. Labour just needs to make us forget or get tired of the issue before we vote and they will win (in a messy coalition but a win all the same).
Vote:September 2nd, 2006 at 8:11 am
Ben Wilson: “She does trust her ministers to handle their portfolios, and knows when to cave on issues. I can’t imagine anything like the Springboks happening under her, or the near bankrupting of the nation out of simple spite.”
Ben, I thought that you were doing okay until this point. Let’s take this bit by bit.
“She does trust her ministers to handle their portfolios…”
Dalzeill? Peters? Burton?
“…and knows when to cave on issues.”
Field? Benson-Pope? Pledgecardgate?
“I can’t imagine anything like the Springboks happening under her….”
No. Now we cuddle up to Palestinians instead.
“…or the near bankrupting of the nation out of simple spite.”
WTF the burst of spending just before the last election was all about? Watch for it to happen again….just before the next election.
Face it: the woman’s an arrogant bitch. Fortunately more of us are realising that.
Vote:September 2nd, 2006 at 10:19 pm
Pity the rise of National in the polls will help deflect attention from their lacklustre leader.
Vote:September 3rd, 2006 at 7:34 am
first nomination for ‘comment of the month’..
from ben wilson re national tactics ’till now..
“..Currently their game plan is like the Wallabies – they rely on targetting key players, and waiting for mistakes. This means their running game never gets any practise…”
now..is that a money shot ..?..or not..?
and as for ‘poll exultation’…can i share some of mine with you..?
tv 3 poll..
greens..7%..(mmm!!..warm and toasty..!.)…
and that’s despite the rest of us having to play “where’s russell…?..”
imagine how they would be rating if effective male leadership were on show..eh..?
mind you..to counter that…the last couple of times i’ve heard jeanette on nat rad she was much improved..
i don’t know if she’s had some (effective)media training..or what..?…but she was less ‘rigid’/much more relaxed in her manner/voice…and it worked a treat..!..
(more of that please..)
oh..!..i almost forgot..3 had nats still trailing labour..and with nary a coalition partner within coo-ee..)
chins-up..!..eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:June 12th, 2007 at 2:13 pm
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