Turia not happy
September 28th, 2006 at 1:23 pm by David FarrarTariana Turia doesn’t want to meet with Don Brash any further, saying their views are so far apart.
I’m surprised she has taken so long to realise it.
However it does pose challenges to National. While I don’t believe a National/Maori coalition or agreement could or would be viabale or stable, it is useful to have a good working relationship on the issues there is agreement on. And as many have noted National doesn’t have many potential partners scoring over 1% at the moment.
No tag for this post.
September 28th, 2006 at 1:58 pm
So there goes another possible alliance, is there anyone Don has not managed to alienate yet?
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:03 pm
Up your offer to $300,000 and Turia’s all yours Sonic..
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:05 pm
The Maori Party are coming along nicely.A smart thing for Brash to do, would be to take up the challenge and go with Pita and Turia on a marae immersement with them and absorb the culture and hear their views.Yeah, sure he visits maraes. I mean actually spend quite a bit of time in the Maori community. I also see the Maori party refused election funds from one of labours bag men. From the boat reference one could surmise it was Owen Glenn. I look forward to comment on these SECRET actions of labour supporters to BUY VOTES from, well , the labour supporters on this blog…..
Vote:What is Glenns agenda? Did Labour know about this?What has labour promised him for this? A boat building company? Hobsonville to develop?
September 28th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
Why shouldn’t a coalition between Mational and The Maori Party be viable?
Fundamentally, the Treaty is a very liberal document that goes on about equality (all citizens) and property rights (stuff you own, you own). These are fundamental principles of the National Party too. Shouldn’t they agree that state violation of property rights is a horrendous crime and that justice has already been delayed beyond all reason.
Furthermore, The Maori Party has a strong negative view on welfarism.
The Maori seats issue is a red herring. It’s a pre-MMP fudge that makes no sense. There’d be a way to reach agreement on this if National outlined it’s reasoning (which is NOT racist) and worked with The Maori Party to develop a better solution.
Sure, both parties would have to shift and negoitate etc to actually have a colation. I think they’d learn a lot from each other though. It’d be sad to see a relationship written off already.
In this particular instance, Brash wasn’t naive or misreported. He did screw up. He should apologise and take the opportunity to make the connections between the parties even stronger than before his gaff by outlining some firm areas of agreement.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:25 pm
“In this particular instance, Brash wasn’t naive or misreported. He did screw up. He should apologise and take the opportunity to make the connections between the parties even stronger than before his gaff by outlining some firm areas of agreement.”
No, he didn’t screw up. Yet again he said what needed to be said, and which should be repeated everyday by politicians. Maori are no longer Maori by blood, they are mostly Europeans with an indigenous subculture.. and good on them for it. But it is a subculture and it must give way to the overriding culture which is NZ Inc, which doesn’t care about colour or race or subcultures except to protect people’s rights.
NZ Inc isn’t a Pakeha culture but a way of life that we are loyal to and which we cherish above pretty much above all else.
It’s gratifying to me that the Muslim community here nailed it best with a recent press release over the latest offshore Muslim outrage:
“The Muslim community of New Zealand is determined to live in peace and abide by the law. We clearly pronounce our commitment to the welfare of our nation, as much as we feel entitled to live in peace, and be respected as citizens of New Zealand. We declare that our commitment to the welfare of our country shall be unquestionable.
God save our New Zealand.”
JC
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
The Maori Party are coming along nicely. If you want to see separatisim and racial violence on a grand scale then yes they are coming along nicely
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:30 pm
The Maori Party are coming along nicely. If you want to see separatisim and racial violence on a grand scale then yes they are coming along nicely
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:46 pm
Of course Sonic there must be an alliance at all costs, just look at the partys that sold their souls to belong to this corrupt little administration, anything to get their snouts in the trough.
It’s Tariana that is “divorced from realities”, not Don. Personally I’m sick of the bullshit she spouts, this country is now a mix of many races. Someone should tell this stupid woman that being indigenous now means being born in New Zealand. She has failed to explain how people like her embrace their Maori blood and totaly renouce any other race in their makeup.
My children have Maori blood but they are New Zealanders they should live for the future not be distracted by some who would happyily live with a system of apartheid. No doubt in fifty years time we will still have some that believe the world owes them a living and they are the choosen ones that have suffered under the evil hands of the oppressors. But what will piss people off like Tariana is that we will all be the same colour
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
John Cawston
Well put and most eloquently too, I must say.
You are saying what many of us think but are often afraid to try and enunciate for fear that those who deliberately misconstrue matters will attempt to pillory anyone who speaks out and to brand them racist or worse.
You don’t have to look under too many rocks to find the shallow thinkers and drivers of bandwagons.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 2:49 pm
gd. Other parties intoduced separatist and racial policies. Violence? What are you talking about? No benefit if you fight the crown. Why do you think we had Working For Families as a benefit (on your knees and beg for your money) instead of Tax Cuts.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:03 pm
david The problem I see with any one race party is just that They dont stand for all ethnic people Only one..The perfect receipe for racial strife would be to also have a Chinese Party A Korean Party An Indian Party etc etc All wanting to divide and rule and give special favours to “their” people at the expense of all other races.What I want to see is one standard of governance for all.Sadly this is too much to ask in this misgoverned society.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:12 pm
I agree gd. The Maori MP who stated on tv that he had no issue with taking bribes also said to a pakeha presenter something along the lines of ‘you live your way and I’ll live mine all right’. One rule for one – just look at the Kahui case
We should be embracing One nation not splitting it up into rival factions. The race party is a dangerous path.
I think the country is in a sorry state and Clark is unbelieveable
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:20 pm
gd and virgin I see what you are saying and ideally it would be good. But alas life for most maori is not good. They suffer pretty much the worst in statistics as to how they achieve outcomes. Yes ,we could discuss those reasons why and individual responsibilty should be accepted. But…. one of the better things about positive discrimination is that is does give the “space” needed for these things to be corrected as you target assistance.I see the Maori Party as being an example of positive discrimination.Hopefully, eventually it will not be needed but today I think it is. They provide a sense of pride and belonging. These things will bring togetherness for the maori community and once they are together, then the problems will get fixed a lot quicker than they are now.Labour has abused the maori vote (and PI…)Its about time maori woke up to that and broke free.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:22 pm
Funny how all of the self-proclaimed “anti-racists” start talking about “blood”
So are you suggesting that we ban the Maori party?
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:27 pm
Turia was involved in this little scandal as Associate Minister of Health. Maybe she could explain why she (and Annette King) decided to cream more than $2 million from the compensation of victims at Lake Alice hospital.
http://subs.nzherald.co.nz/category/story.cfm?c_id=204&objectid=10401057
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:32 pm
No – don’t ban the Maori Party. Single issue parties will spring up – eg the Outdoors party.
Dissolve the Maori seats.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:36 pm
ross, as was the rest of the labour Cabinet. Its called collective responsibility. Close to ad hominem here ross.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:41 pm
in the UK they had the Raving Loony Party – am thinking of setting one up here – can’t be any worse than the current shambles
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:45 pm
Yes, it used to be fun when we had the McGullicuddy Serious Party.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:46 pm
“in the UK they had the Raving Loony Party”
Too late, United Future beat you to it.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:48 pm
In my opinion one consequence of the Treaty of Waitangi (1840) is that taxation is contrary to the letter and ‘spirit’ of the Treaty.
Vote:It is curious that those most obsessed with the Treaty (lawyers and lefties – same thing actually) never, ever mention this!
Hypocritical w*n#e!s.
September 28th, 2006 at 3:54 pm
Oh, I don’t know Swift Man.
They agreed to accept all the rights and responsibilities of being British Citizens didn’t they? That must have included the responsibility to pay tax.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 3:55 pm
Don Brash is a racist. There is no other construction you can put on his constant, half witted racist assertions. Anyone who heard the Bfm interview interview today, on top of his constant dogwhistle attacks on Maori, can come to any other conclusion. The fact that most of the people who post on this site are arrogant white-mansd-burden racist sso they agree with him is of no consequence to the obviousness of the conclusion that Don is a card carrying good old boy patronishing mono-cultural white-is-best racist. God help us if he makes it to power and tries to implement his half baked ideas of narrow conformity. There will be blood on the streets, mark my words.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:00 pm
“There will be blood on the streets, mark my words.”
Another neo-communist totalitarian raises his ugly head. Shame so many NZers with Maori blood have more brains than you and Mike Smith isn’t it Tom.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:01 pm
I live in South Auckland.
There’s blood on the streets every single night here.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:04 pm
Ahhh Tom S has insight into our color via our comments here.According to Him? we’re all racist.Ha.
I’m surprised Tom that you that you lower yourself to even comment here.Please go away and return when you actually have something to say.
John Cawston – Well said.You are close to hitting the nail right on the head with your comment.Thanks.Not Mikes bro by chance are you?
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
“According to Him? we’re all racist.Ha.”
“Not Mikes bro by chance are you?”
Not bad, you managed not to do an ethnic slur for almost three sentences.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:08 pm
TomS, I heard the bFM interview. I thought he explained himself well. And I was disgusted at the way Noelle McCarthy and that washed up hair-metal airhead Havoc twisted his words for their own agenda.
The only bigots around here are the Grey Lynn mafia and the narrow conformist views of their own. God, what a dreary country this would be if they were in charge… oh, wait…
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:11 pm
Tom S. are you maori? No, thought not. Well I am, Nga Puhi. And we dont need you leaping to our defense. In fact its patronising and more than a little racist yourself that you think we need your help. The only arrogance on display here is yours.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:15 pm
No Linda, people didn’t pay tax in New Zealand in 1840 (a few may have paid a very, very little).
Vote:Tax was introduced to pay for WW1. Of course it was supposed to be struck out at the end of the war, but… The next hike was to pay for WW2. Of course it was supposed to be struck out at the end of the war, but… The hike was to fight the war on poverty. At the end of it, it was supposed to be struck but…
Learn your economic history Linda.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:18 pm
So what has any political party ever done to successfully assist and support Maori and PIs I say successfully because if they had we wouldnt be having this conversation. And what has any so called Maori or PI Leader ever done thats been successful.SFA.
All thats happened is that one dimensional politicals and civil servants ahve thrown incresing amounts of money like drunken sailors hoping some of it would work.
The missing link is education plus breaking the life cycle that currently exists.Until we get over hadn wringing limp wristed responses them nothing will change.
Vote:The problem is that a whole set of industries now exist that feed off the misery of Maori and PI people.Industries that want to see a fix to the problem like they want a whole in the head.
September 28th, 2006 at 4:19 pm
OK, Swift Man – you know more history than me. But the rights and responsibilities of citizens change over time – they are not frozen at a date in 1840. In fact, they change every time Wellinton passes another law…
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:22 pm
Actually David I am part Maori. So much for your racial profiling then. Still, its good to see the kupapa are alive and well in 2006.
Chickenlittle – Mr. Farrar’s little echo chamber of nauseousness seldom attracts the more intelligent contributors, on that we are agreed.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:28 pm
Sonic – Hows that lead feeling in your guts mate??????
You’ve been wanking on for the last couple of months defending the indefensible, now those you have been defending are about to be shown to be alot worse than even I thought. Gee must be hard for you aye???
I was asking JC if Mike was his brother. Same last name you see. Mikes brother is in forestry. JC is knowledgeable about forestry. So I thought 1+1=2.
You of course being a reactionary dickhead thought that 1+1=2345868796970.
Desperation is very,very unbecoming.
CL
xxxx
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:32 pm
“Sonic – Hows that lead feeling in your guts mate??????”
The only thing that turns my guts is people who think using 6 question marks is witty.
xxx
S
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:35 pm
The only thing that turns my guts is people who think cheating and lying to your tax-paying public is acceptable
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:36 pm
Is that the best you can do???????
xxx
CL
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
This is my very very cunning plan:
We give sonic a shave, haircut and shower. We buy him his first ever shoes, and a suit.
We send him to Wellington.
Once there he wines and dines and seduces Helen Elizabeth KKKlarkkk. It will probably be the best loving both of them have ever had (it may be the only loving they have ever had, but we won’t go into that!)
The resulting offspring will undoubtedly be a monster/demon who will so occupy Helen Elizabeth KKKlarkkk’s time she won’t have the time to f#@k with OUR lives.
Total cost:
Shoes $100
Suit $500
Haircut $15
Razor blade $2
Flight to Wellington (one way only hahahaha) $200
Dinner $150
Wine $100
Sonic’s fee $ 798933
Total $800,000
Of course my very very cunning plan is dependant upon sonic being heterosexual.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:45 pm
SW – fine until the monster grows up…
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:46 pm
“John Cawston – Well said.You are close to hitting the nail right on the head with your comment.Thanks.Not Mikes bro by chance are you?”
Where’s he from?
JC
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:47 pm
“Is that the best you can do???????”
Considering the quality of your original post it is all I have to.
S
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 4:51 pm
JC – Napier
Sonic – Ahhh Its my fault – Have you met my wife?
xxx
CL
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 5:33 pm
“JC – Napier”
Yep. He’s ours. I got the brains and he got the freckles.
JC
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
I don’t think Don Brash is racist – I think the talking points that his speech-writers give him are. Dog whistling all the way to Colmar-Brunton.
“Blood Quota” is a rubbish concept that has been used to discriminate against ethnic minorities in the past. Do you people seriously believe that a politician can tell Maori that they actually aren’t maori, that their Whakapapa means nothing if they don’t meet his arbitrary quota for Maori-ness?
BTW – why am I not surprised that any discussion on this topic turned into ad hominems?
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 7:20 pm
The interview with bFM is outrageous. Brash is hopeless and must go. If he can’t competently do an interview with student radio, there is no hope he will beat Clark in an election campaign.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 8:05 pm
Rightkiwi, grow some balls. Are you seriously thinking Brash should be dumped because Noelle McCarthy doesn’t like him?
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 8:24 pm
In other news, Brash turns on the Queen.
“I don’t mind if she wants to think of herself as English. Everybody’s knows she’s a German really… but I want the state, the government to treat her like any other Englishwoman. I’m more than happy to let her be English. If somebody wants to identify as English, if they have no English blood I don’t care. It’s a matter of total indifference to me!”
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 8:52 pm
Well, I think Tariana’s opened up a challenge for the Maori Party. After all, how is Labour getting on with the ‘haters and wreckers’ nowaways – I’ve heard Turia and Clark still can’t bear to be in the same room for any length of time, so what relationship there is between their two parties has to be conducted by proxies.
I think Turia (and Hone Harawira) need a weekend political boot camp with Jeanette Fitzsimmons. Whatever you think of the Green Party on the policy front, I think they’ve done a pretty good job of establishing a clear point of difference with the Labour Party, without reverting to the Corngate sniping that would have been enormously destructive to both parties in the 2002 campaign if National had been in any state to take advantage.
I don’t think the Maori Party (or rather, it’s leaders) want to posture themselves into a corner where they’re seen as toy-throwing toddlers holding the Government – any Government – to ransom. There’s the real risk that both National and Labour could say, “fuck you – we dare you to bring the Government down at the first confidence vote and see where it gets you.”
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 9:21 pm
Err wrote:
“I don’t mind if she wants to think of herself as English. Everybody’s knows she’s a German really… but I want the state, the government to treat her like any other Englishwoman. I’m more than happy to let her be English. If somebody wants to identify as English, if they have no English blood I don’t care. It’s a matter of total indifference to me!”
Not quite as clever as you think, Err. The German background of the royal family was obviously a big enough concern that in 1917, George V changed his family name from Saxe-Coburg-Gotha to Windsor. And let’s not forget that back in 1714, the death of the last Stewart, Queen Anne, saw the German Elector of Hanover also became King George I of England and his descendants have occupied the throne ever since. Fucking Krauts.
So, you could argue that the Prince of Wales isn’t very English at all – his Mum’s from a long line of Krauts, his father’s of Greek-Danish descent, and he’s pretty comfortable calling himself an Englishman.
That’s the problem when you start getting hori-er than thou and chasing some meaninglessly subjective ideal of ethnic/cultural purity. People fall in love, fuck, have children, roam the world for all kinds of reasons and just muck it all up. I think Don Brash is right: I’m quite happy being a total mongrel, and aren’t interesting in fitting into anyone’s tidy little box. Not someone trying to separate out my white and black blood cells, not born again Horis and sickly white liberals, not anyone.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 9:44 pm
One sad thing is the existence of the Maori Party.
Even sadder is the willing tolerance of such racism by ALL, yes ALL, NZ political parties.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 9:49 pm
“So, you could argue that the Prince of Wales isn’t very English at all – his Mum’s from a long line of Krauts, his father’s of Greek-Danish descent, and he’s pretty comfortable calling himself an Englishman.”
Right, Craig. So in purely genetic terms there’s actually not a hell of a lot separating many people who consider themselves English from others who consider themselves Irish, Scottish or French. Does that mean that any contracts signed between representatives of the English and representatives of the French should now be considered null and void, because lets-face-it-we’re-all-the-same-anyway?
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 10:12 pm
That is the point Craig, a treaty was signed and it has legal force. It would take both sides to agree any changes, the clue is in the word “Treaty.”
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 10:24 pm
Err.:
I believe in this country contract law doesn’t have much in the way of race-based loopholes, and I’m perfectly happy about that. I’m saying that it might just be time to be asking Tariana Turia what her idea of a ‘real’ Maori is, because I’ve never heard her before being a big proponent of the “I just feel like it” school of ethnic definition. So what is it Tariana: Knowing your tribal connections and living on the ancestral patch, being able to recite your whakapapa back x. number of generations, being fluent in te reo, having a culturally correct CD collection and copies of books by Whiti Ihimaera and Patricia Grace on your shelves, not having a tauiwi parent (which leaves the two of us out for a start), owning a Tino Rangatiratanga t-shirt? What? Because by any of those criteria there’s lot of Mallowpuff Maori (brown on the outside, soft and white in the middle) out there.
Being from a background where my parents’ marriage – and my birth – taught me that there isn’t a simple causual relationship between racism and the level of melanin in your skin. So excuse me if I’m not really comfortable with the kind of Hori-er than thou posturing going on here. IMO, it doesn’t reflect the reality of my life, or those of so many New Zealanders who don’t neatly fit into the bicultural ideology that’s framing the debate here. Another twenty or thirty years, and I guess adcademia, the media and politicians are going to catch up with reality. I look forward to the day.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 10:46 pm
I get all that, Craig, and I don’t think that anybody is going to stand up and claim that Maori as a whole are as culturally and racially distinct from Pakeha as when the treaty was signed. But I don’t think most of the entire planet is as culturally and racially distinct as it has been historically – culture has become increasingly globalised, and race has become a much less serious issue in coupling so there tend to be a lot more kids with a mix of ethnicities than was maybe acceptable in our internationally segregated past.
That doesn’t mean, however, that cultural differences no longer exist. It just means that ethnically mixed individuals get to draw on more factors that inform their culture than just the de-facto situation of having two matched parents. Culture and ethnicity have as much to do with your upbringing and environment than genetics. Otherwise, as I said, you’d have little case for arguing the Britishness of the Royal Family – but shit, culturally you’d be hard pressed to find anything more English. Similarly there’s plenty of people who’re a good proportion genetically Maori who’re indistinguishable from the average pakeha New Zealander – but there’s also plenty who’re very easily distinguishable, and not just from differences in skin colour.
I’m still scratching my head trying to figure out what Don’s point was supposed to be. He’d be about as well-placed trying to argue that actually there’s no such thing as an American because they’re all just a big genetic melting pot anyway. That rather belies the fact that there very clearly IS such a thing as an American and you can identify them very easily when you meet them.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 10:59 pm
What he said.
Vote:September 28th, 2006 at 11:34 pm
Err. wrote:
That rather belies the fact that there very clearly IS such a thing as an American and you can identify them very easily when you meet them.
Could you share with us the obvious distinguishing marks of “an American”. I’ve just been reading some bumf about Guillermo del Toro’s new film – which looks superb, BTW, but I digress – and always assumed he was a Hispanic-American with a serious geek gene, as I’m only familiar with his mainstream Hollywood films. Wrong – he’s Mexican citizen, and that doesn’t change just because he has a Green Card to work in the US. Most of his work as a director/producer/writer has been done in his native land and with Hispanic producers. I lazily indulged a whole raft of pretty ignorant cultural/social stereotypes – and pretty racist ones on any number of levels at that.
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 12:27 am
At the heart of Brash’s comments was a call to accept the fact of objective reality that only individuals exist…and that abstractions such as “Maori, European, Asian etc are irrelavant where Government and its legitimate functions should be concerned. “One law for all” recognises this fact. Murder, rape arson, theft etc are crimes regardless of your race, culture,gender, sexuality or religion because they are violations of individual rights which every human being is born with by virtue of being human.All of the conflict in NZ and indeed the world is down to the ignorance and disregard of this unchangeable fact.
If Government was restricted to this basic function of protecting INDIVIDUAL rights virtually all conflict and discord in our society would vanish. But because government doesn’t restrict itself to this function and instead tries to pick winners and “balance things up” we get the mess and discord we have today.
All the while some Maori cling to their “chosen people tribalism” and keep wanting special treatment from the State they will never attain the level of rewards that objective reality has to offer those who accept and live by its rules.
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 6:38 am
blair – no, I am not suggesting brash should be dumped because mccarthy doesn’t like him. He should be dumped because he can’t competently handle himself in an interview with student radio. The issue of the day is Labour Party corruption, and he talks about blood lines!
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 8:58 am
JC – Ha thats what he told me too.
So Sonic shall I wait for you to apoligise for casting racist aspersions on me ?
What? – Cobwebs??????(6)
xxx
CL
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 9:10 am
In the sixties to call for “one law for all” made you a radical against racism. (As Martin Luther Kink Found – read his speech “I have a Dream” which Don obviously copied at Orewa.
In the eighties it made you a liberal.
In the nineties it made you a conserative.
Now it makes you a racist. (See Turia on Don Brash.)
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 9:14 am
In the sixties to call for “one law for all” made you a radical against racism. (As Martin Luther Kink Found – read his speech “I have a Dream” which Don obviously copied at Orewa.
In the eighties it made you a liberal.
In the nineties it made you a conserative.
Now it makes you a racist. (See Turia on Don Brash.)
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 9:21 am
Did it upset you diddums?
Oh sorry, I did not realise you were such a delicate soul CL.
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 9:26 am
Maori are not indigenous in terms of the UN conventions etc because they have always embraced the European mainstream.
The Amish of the US are more like an indigenous people in that they remain outside the mainstream.
There are many tribal cultures around the world who remain aloof and retain their “oriiginal” indigenous lifestyle. The problem the UN tries to address is whether they should be forced to enter public education and be subject to the laws of the majority.
There are no Maori living their pre-European lifestyle – they are not an indigenous people.
Some chose to be an identifiable culture within the mainstream – rather like some Scots. But the most common complaint from Maori is that they are not achieving ‘mainstream’ targets. They cannot have it both ways.
Also here is what I reported Mallard saying in 2004 _
“Mr Mallard, presumably seeking the status of a modern day Governor Hobson, has declared that we are all indigenous now.”
Will the Maori party stop talking to Labour?
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 9:27 am
Maori are not indigenous in terms of the UN conventions etc because they have always embraced the European mainstream.
The Amish of the US are more like an indigenous people in that they remain outside the mainstream.
There are many tribal cultures around the world who remain aloof and retain their “oriiginal” indigenous lifestyle. The problem the UN tries to address is whether they should be forced to enter public education and be subject to the laws of the majority.
There are no Maori living their pre-European lifestyle – they are not an indigenous people.
Some chose to be an identifiable culture within the mainstream – rather like some Scots. But the most common complaint from Maori is that they are not achieving ‘mainstream’ targets. They cannot have it both ways.
Also here is what I reported Mallard saying in 2004 _
“Mr Mallard, presumably seeking the status of a modern day Governor Hobson, has declared that we are all indigenous now.”
Will the Maori party stop talking to Labour?
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 9:45 am
“Did it upset you diddums?
Oh sorry, I did not realise you were such a delicate soul CL.”
Yup.
Your comment above about sums you up Sonic.
Watch my lips.
T R O L L
xxx
CL
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 10:01 am
Can’t see your lips CL, this is the internet.
Vote:September 29th, 2006 at 10:28 am
“Could you share with us the obvious distinguishing marks of “an American”. I’ve just been reading some bumf about Guillermo del Toro’s new film – which looks superb, BTW, but I digress – and always assumed he was a Hispanic-American with a serious geek gene, as I’m only familiar with his mainstream Hollywood films. Wrong – he’s Mexican citizen, and that doesn’t change just because he has a Green Card to work in the US. Most of his work as a director/producer/writer has been done in his native land and with Hispanic producers. I lazily indulged a whole raft of pretty ignorant cultural/social stereotypes – and pretty racist ones on any number of levels at that.”
Again, I get you Craig – but the existence of boundary states where it’s hard to pick whether somebody falls in one camp or another doesn’t invalidate the actual existence of the camps themselves. Would you have any trouble figuring out that George W Bush is an American? For another example, few people would claim that there’s no such thing as men and women because of the existence of hermaphodites or other gender-ambiguous individuals.
The point being that while people might be genetically indistinguishable (a state which hasn’t actually occurred yet between maori and pakeha, it’s worth noting) they can still be clearly separate and distinct peoples.
Vote: