More conspiracy madness
Boy do the left in the US love their conspiracies. The latest comes after a US Democratic Senator had a stroke, which if ultimately fatal might lead to the Republicans maintaining their majority in the Senate.
On the hugely watched daytime show, The View, one of the leftie panelists openly asked if the stroke could have been man-made and done to him deliberately. When challenged on this lunacy, she insisted the Republican Party was capable of murdering Senators.
This is almost a re-run of a couple of years ago when another Democratic Senator died in a plane crash, and the loonies alleged that the plane was sabotaged.
Combine that with the huge number who think that September 11 was also done by the Republican Party, not Al Qaeda, plus thought who think the voting machines are all rigged, and the worldview of these people is that the Republican Party
(a) staged the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Centre and Pentagon
(b) stole the 2002 and 2004 elections with rigged voting machines (which somehow didn’t work in 2006)
(c) shot down the plane of one US Senator
(d) poisoned another US Senator to give him a stroke
I’m just waiting for them to be also blamed for the radiation poisoning of the ex-KGB agents, and that they somehow implicated Putin for it.
Hat Tip: Tim Blair
December 18th, 2006 at 4:06 pm
Haven’t you noticed ? The left only ever fight phantom enemies.
December 18th, 2006 at 4:07 pm
Of course they didn’t do those things. But the only outstanding result from the 2006 elections is as a result of a screw up in the disastrously awful, no paper trail touchscreen machines (Florida 13). And the republicans were guilty of highly unethical and borderline illegal (various states such as Virginia and New Hampshire are invesitgating) autodialling at the last election. Indeed, as a result of similar tactics at the 2004 elections several New Hampshire republicans have been convicted of illegal phone jamming.
And this isn’t even mentioning the “sample ballots” handed out in heavily Democrat areas by the Republican Senatorial campaign in Maryland that falsely implied the republican candidates were Democrats. Or… you get my point, anyway. Sure, DPF they’re not guilty of loony conspirary theory activity, but that doesn’t mean they’re not guilty of everyday, garden variety electoral fraud.
Oh, and the reason that Tim Johnson from South Dakota being ill is such a big issue is because the Republican Governor will appoint his replacement. Given what I’ve outlined above, are we surprised the Dems don’t trust him not to appoint a republican? Have these people not heard of by-elections?!
December 18th, 2006 at 4:14 pm
“Combine that with the huge number who think that September 11 was also done by the Republican Party, not Al Qaeda”
Vastly outnumbered by those who think it had something to do with Saddam Hussein. A far more costly delusion, I would suggest.
I wonder who gave them that idea?
December 18th, 2006 at 4:41 pm
You forgot JFK Jr! It was crucial that Dubya become the first 2nd generational president, otherwise plans for the Rapture would not go smoothly.
December 18th, 2006 at 4:50 pm
I don’t think one can compare thinking a sworn enemy of the US may have been involved (even though there is no factual basis for such belief) with thinking your own Government deliberately in a conspiracy which must have involved several thousand people and never leaked.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:09 pm
To be fair you should note that a huge percentage of the 9/11 nutters are on the Right. I’ve argued with them and know they are Right winger lunatics. You refer to Wellstone and the plane crash. But Democrat Larry McDonald died in the attack on KAL 107 and it was promoted as a secret conspiracy by Jessue Helms. Jerry Falwell said the attack was done only to kill McDonald (not likely). But all these people, including McDonald are Right wing. Yes, there are nutters on the Left who believe in conspiracies but in my experiences the lunatic Right is more likely to fall for such crap. The extreme Right and extreme Left (left and right don’t make much sense to me) are very similar.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:14 pm
David, I think in the interest of fairness you should talk about those who believe:
-The Oklahoma bombing was carried out by Saddam
-The UN is building concentration camps to put all the american patriots in after they take their guns away from them
- ZOG
-black helicopters
-Vince foster was murdered by Hillary Clinton in order to cover up her lesbian affairs (or whatever the hell that was about. Also you should note that the Vince Foster stuff was printed on the editorial pages of the WSJ and the wash times)
-Liberals want to ban christmas and make gay marriage compulsary
and talk about the political leanings associated with such beliefs.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:23 pm
DPF: you referred above to “the huge number who think that September 11 was also done by the Republican Party, not Al Qaeda …”
Could you clarify what you mean by ‘huge number’? Of Americans, or Democrats, or ‘the left’?
Are there opinion surveys demonstrating the extent of this wrong-headed notion? I haven’t found any.
Let’s not confuse the bizarre notion that the Republican Party carried out the 9/11 attacks, with the more reasonable view that there were intelligence failures or standard bureaucratic incompetence by the Bush administration. I’ve seen strong support for the latter view, but none for the “the Republicans did it” conspiracy.
What is this “huge number”, please?
December 18th, 2006 at 5:26 pm
Simon – the polls I have seen indicate around 10% of Americans IIRC think the Govt was behind the 9/11 attacks. And that is behind, not that their policies helped cause.
I doubt many GOP supporters think their own party did this.
It is true you get right wing conspiracy nuts also. If the Democrats take power we’ll probably see more of them. For the last six years the leftie conspiracy nuts have been dominating.
December 18th, 2006 at 5:34 pm
“For the last six years the leftie conspiracy nuts have been dominating.”
I believe wolfiwitz and feith were down with Myrolie on the Oklahoma/saddam bidniz
Bloody lefties.
Also there is a mexican plot to retake Texas and california through the awesome power of illegal immigration.
And all the scientists are conspiring to deny the truth of Intelligent design even though they secretly admit to each other that evolution makes no sense (ask Ian) this is because they are atheists who hate they god believe doesn’t exist.
Sorry about piling on but maybe maybe please could we have an update to make the post just a little less partisan
December 18th, 2006 at 5:40 pm
Oh and you need to at least 2 people who believes your a,b,c and d or else it’s just a smear, given the way you phrased it.
(although the way you phrased it would still be a smear, who are “these people”? Is Wesley Clark included, he’s american left.)
Ok
I’m done
December 18th, 2006 at 6:47 pm
I agree that there’s a disturbingly paranoid streak in the left these days but before juming to any conclusions about this bit from Joy Behar I’d like to see the actual footage. She’s known for being a bit of a humourist so it’s possible she was making some sort of joke.
Too often I’ve seen lefties take bits of TV out of context, the bit with Bush and Merkel for example, and twist it into something it isn’t.
December 18th, 2006 at 6:59 pm
Simon G:“Combine that with the huge number who think that September 11 was also done by the Republican Party, not Al Qaeda”
Vastly outnumbered by those who think it had something to do with Saddam Hussein. A far more costly delusion, I would suggest.
What delusion? Bin Laden attacked America because of the presence of US troops in Saudi Arabia. The troops were there because of the decision to leave Saddam in power and merely to ‘contain’ him.
December 18th, 2006 at 7:08 pm
Come on, these posts are pointless DPF. Any sane person knows that there are an equal number of conspiracy theorists on the left and right. We could post examples from both sides all night (which is prob what’s going to happen) and not get anywhere. I know your example is from the MSM, but I could watch a few minutes of the Spin Factor and post equally outrageous statements, but there’s no point, as I know his views do not represent intelligent conservatives.
December 18th, 2006 at 9:44 pm
I disagree that Leftie conspiracy nutters have been predominating David – it would seem an awful lot of Right wingers have embraced wacky conspiracy theories too – the one that linked Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein was pretty good. Some idiots still believe it!
December 18th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
The problem with DPF’s thinking on this issue is that he doesn’t understand the nature of the allegations. He seems to think he does but like many he shows profound ignorance. For example, like all lightweights on the 911 issue, he imagines that thousands would have to have been involved and someone would have leaked.
If he bothered to do some research he’d find that this obvious issue has been logically dealt with and it’s not the showstopper he seems to imagine.
As for his post above, he’s either being disingenuous or he’s truly lost it. I’ve read hundreds of 911 articles and have never come across a strand of thinking that alleges the Republican party was a player. If you bothered to actually look into the 911 sites, and you were bright enough to sort out the dross, you’d see that most don’t even comment on whodunnit. Most sites concentrate on dissecting the official story, and exploring the utterly inescapable logical inconsistencies that scientifically destroy the 911 tissue of official lies that only morons would be stupid enough to believe in.
December 18th, 2006 at 10:44 pm
A number of people are unable to grasp the duifference between a plausible theory and a mad conspiracy theory.
Theories linking Saddam and Bin Ladin are not mad. They are wrong, and they are not supported by the facts. But as both men hate the United States and both support terrorism, it’s not at all unusual to suspect they may have working together. This is a wrong yet plausible theory.
The theory that Prince Phillip murdered Diana, and that George Bush secretly masterminded 9/11 are not plausible. A moronic six year old can work out this is highly highly highly unlikely to put it mildly.
December 18th, 2006 at 10:51 pm
ZOG Foster Black helicopters concentration camps and Ian Wishart
December 18th, 2006 at 11:17 pm
Humans are drawn to conspiracy theories, catastophist theories, and pseudoscience in their droves whipped up by the popular media. Its complex but there must be a psychological component to it possibly related to the loss of the firm ground of religion.
These theories do the round ad infinitum and never solve anything. Two that come to mind other than JFK of course are the “moon landing didnt happen” legend and the theory that the US goded Japan into killing US citizens at Pearl Harbour so they would have public support to enter the war.
People need to stand back and take a look at some of this stuff objectively so we cn try ot come up with some rational long term solutions for the world’s problems.
December 19th, 2006 at 1:55 am
Um, some people are missing the point here. While there might be many “right wing” conspiracy theorists out there, I don’t see any of these guys with their own TV show announcing these theories to the masses who incidentally believe their nonsense.
I mean we all know some lefties will believe anything if it means to slander the right/Bush/Republicans… but this is getting a little silly.
December 19th, 2006 at 7:46 am
Shorter DPF: That’s not a crazy conspiracy theory, because I believed it.
The allegation that many of the worlds most prestigious scientists and economists are conspiring to defraud the world into believing in climate change is my favourite right-wing conspiracy.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:54 am
The biggest conspiracy theory in the world today that I know of is the one that argues the theory of global warming has been invented by evil communist scientists to destroy capitalism. Indeed any time that subject is raised here up pop people who genuinly believe that.
The second most popular is that Muslims are conspiring to take over the world.
Neither of those are left-wing views, and indeed most of those who think the WTC attackes were false-flag operations tend to come from the US far right, not the left.
December 19th, 2006 at 8:57 am
The left just love being the Government. It is their sole being and meaning in life as they meddle in everyone’s lives to make the world better they think. Their own lives are absolute rubbish with many of them underachieving especially post education qualifications. And they never seem to grow up. They have a child like attitude that everyone especially the state owes them a living if they finally wean themsleves off their parents – they simply move on to mother state and compliant “bosses”. Righties loathe all this, do not want to boss people around, want people to take responsibility and the losers can get the flick.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:09 am
“Righties loathe all this, do not want to boss people around”
So that is why you keep throwing elections?
It appears Tim’s definition of the “left” is similar to this one
“The Left (ii) An umbrella organization consisting exclusively of students on the one hand, and, on the other, middle-class people who like hosting dinner parties. Contrary to a lingering misconception, The Left has nothing to do with the working class, who are actually quite content with how things are. (However, ‘while The Left are undoubtedly a laughably impotent bunch of middle-class Students Waving Placards, they are also and simultaneously a Sinister Worldwide Plot, all powerful, with tentacles reaching into every orifice of the civic body, working in cahoots with global Islamofascism etc etc etc ‘.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:32 am
“and the losers can get the flick”
and there is the fundamental difference between those who believe in social justice and those that don’t. Tim Barcley and his buddies on the BRT get to judge who is a “loser” and therefore flickable and who is a “winner”. It’s a zero sum game – I win, you lose, sucker. Scary, arrogant, shit.
The opposite view is to recognise that there are winning and losing traits in all of us and different circumstances help one or the other dominate.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:41 am
Danyl – you should know better than to attribute beliefs to me. I have never ever thought Saddam was linked to 9/11. I did believe he had WMDs which might end up with terrorist groups at some stage in the future, but so did every western intelligence agency.
As for climate change, there is a world of difference between academics disagreeing on future projection models, and people inventing conspiracy theories to explain invents which have already happened.
The equivalent level of insanity on climate change would be for someone to accept temperatures are rising, but believe it is because the UN has sent operatives in black helicopters to the middle of the earth to make the planet hotter deliberately.
Again the fact that not even Dim can tell the difference between barking mad theories and simply wrong and misguided views is alarming.
December 19th, 2006 at 9:55 am
DPF – “Boy do the left in the US love their conspiracies”
DPF again – “Danyl – you should know better than to attribute beliefs to me”
er, yes, quite so.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:00 am
I hear the Republicans are also responsible for that James Blunt atrocity, ‘You’re Beautiful’.
Bastards.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:32 am
>I don’t think one can compare thinking a sworn enemy of the US may have been involved (even though there is no factual basis for such belief) with thinking your own Government deliberately in a conspiracy…
Yes, I laugh every time I hear the conspiracy theory that the US govt was behind the deaths of 3000 innocent Americans. Tell me again who’s responsible for the deaths of 3000 Americans in Iraq?
December 19th, 2006 at 10:38 am
>I did believe he had WMDs which might end up with terrorist groups at some stage in the future, but so did every western intelligence agency.
Really? You’re ignoring the fact that various experts advised Bush that Saddam had no WMDs. You’re also ignoring the fact that the UN was in the process of searching for WMDs when Bush declared war. Remember Colin Powell’s infamous presentation at the UN where he detailed all the sites containing WMDs? Why didn’t Mr Powell simply provide that information to the weapons inspectors? Ah, that would’ve been too easy.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:41 am
…that George Bush secretly masterminded…
I agree DPF, very unlikely.
I once heard that the French Government planned to blow up a Greenpeace ship. I mean, who would believe shit like that.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:43 am
>The allegation that many of the worlds most prestigious scientists and economists are conspiring to defraud the world into believing in climate change is my favourite right-wing conspiracy.
Some of the world’s leading scientists and economists believe that spending billions of dollars on providing water, sanitation and housing and preventing diseases like HIV/Aids in 3rd world countries is far more important than spending the same amount of money on reducing greehouse gas emissions.
December 19th, 2006 at 10:49 am
As I suspected it was a joke -
http://hotair.com/archives/2006/12/14/video-behar-wonders-if-tim-johnsons-stroke-was-man-made/
December 19th, 2006 at 10:53 am
By far the biggest conspiracy theory in the world, to which all others pale in comparison, is that big business and the US are conspiring to create all the evil misery and suffering in the world. ["military-industrial complex"].
December 19th, 2006 at 11:18 am
Andrew Bannister – the French Govt saw Greenpeace as an enemy organisation. Hence it is not a big surprise they were behind the warrior sinking.
And the key thing is that they were easily exposed at having done it. Any conspiracy of more than 10 people will tend to come out. Hell any of more than three people probably.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:23 am
The biggest problem seems to be that the official story is wrong or incomplete. For example, the collapse of WTC 7 – http://www.wtc7.net/videos.html – I haven’t seen a good explanation apart from demolition, yet that raises more questions than it answers.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:50 am
DPF – my point is that if they hadn’t been caught and someone had suggested the French government had done it, they would have been dismissed as a conspiracy nutter. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.
As for the number of people involved, I agree. You can’t keep everyone quiet. However, we don’t know how many conspiracies have managed to do so, but I guess that is is a moot point.
December 19th, 2006 at 11:58 am
“DPF – my point is that if they hadn’t been caught and someone had suggested the French government had done it, they would have been dismissed as a conspiracy nutter. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.”
I was at a mate’s wedding one week after the Rainbow Warrior sinking – it was before any agents were caught, everyone already assumed the French were behind it.
the reason I remember is because I was sitting at the same table as a spook (very few people there knew his occupation), returned from an overseas posting. He expressed surprise that everyone believed the French were to blame.
I believe from what he said that day, and from what ensued, that he knew all along. he was just astonished that all of New Zealand assumed it already.
December 19th, 2006 at 1:11 pm
DPF:I did believe he had WMDs which might end up with terrorist groups at some stage in the future, but so did every western intelligence agency.
ross:Really? You’re ignoring the fact that various experts advised Bush that Saddam had no WMDs.
This was a minority view. The majority opinion was that Saddam’s regime was lying when it said it had nothing left. We now know this to be true. The remains of more than 500 chemical weapons, testing positive for sarin, cyclosarin and mustard gas, have been found in Iraq since the war ended even though Saddam’s regime had claimed that these weapons had been destroyed.
You’re also ignoring the fact that the UN was in the process of searching for WMDs when Bush declared war.
Um, relevance? Saddam’s regime misled weapons inspectors on many occasions, sometimes very successfully, and the inspection process itself no longer had a tenable end position.
Remember Colin Powell’s infamous presentation at the UN where he detailed all the sites containing WMDs? Why didn’t Mr Powell simply provide that information to the weapons inspectors? Ah, that would’ve been too easy.
Did powell really claim that? My recollection is that he pointed to sites where there had been suspicious behaviour indicative of clandestine research. Saddam’s regime had a history of moving things around and covering things up whenever it thought it had been rumbled.
December 19th, 2006 at 2:38 pm
You guys are all morons. Everyone who has seen Borat now knows that the jews were behind 9/11
December 19th, 2006 at 3:18 pm
Let’s appoint Michael Richards and Mel Gibson to look into all this stuff.
December 20th, 2006 at 11:55 am
Quite true DPF that “Any conspiracy of more than 10 people will tend to come out. Hell any of more than three people probably.” in the case of the late Don and the National Party it only takes 2 people’s involvement for their conspiracies to become apparent.
But I guess the critical issue here is that most sentient beings, even a few Republicans and their allies, believe that they might be involved. With the number of lies, deceptions and terminal credibility failures the Bush administration has been exposed on, the global public is willing to entertain the possibility of another bent Republican scheme. Whether that’s fair or not it’s a very bad look for any party seeking re-election.
December 20th, 2006 at 1:37 pm
You cant dismiss conspiracies out of hand. If you’ve got a lot of analysts in organisations like el Quaeda, CIA, govt departments where the OSA is signed etc, conspiracies happen.
Its just the theories about what conspiracies are going on that are often laughable.
Many real conspiracies are buried in paper work and never see the light of day. WW2 conspiracies and the like are quite interesting when they finally come out.