Fiji vs Bloggers
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:40 pm by David FarrarMurray has a transcript of a chiling interview with Fijian military re Fijian bloggers:
HILL: And, is there any truth to the reports that the army is preparing to round up another 20 people on suspicion of being bloggers?
LEWENI: There are investigations ongoing, but I couldn’t confirm to you the number of people.
HILL: What’s so wrong about it? They’re just engaging in some free speech, which is protected by the Fiji Constitution?
LEWENI: What paid to go around and saying bad things about people and speculating? To you that’s right? If that’s right, then I don’t think we should continue this conversation, bye.
So in Fiji it is now illegal to speculate and say bad things about people.
Related posts:
- Fiji now illegally detaining suspected bloggers
- A massive step back for Fiji
- Provocation from Fiji
- Helping Fijian Bloggers
July 22nd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
Oh how trite!!! You blokes who know so much about what is right for Fiji seem to forget about the New Zealand ‘blogger’ who was jailed last week for ‘saying bad things about people.’
More strength to the arm of the Fiji military who have better things to do than waste their time talking to idiots who assert people are being arrested ‘for being bloggers.’
Most administrations in most countries take a pretty dim view of people who run around the place trying to stir up trouble and telling lies about people. That’s why we have laws which restrict the unfettered freedom of free speech.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 2:06 pm
Adolf
Are you another apologist for the Fiji military dictatorship?
So far 4 people killed in custody, journalists rounded up for questioning, overseas vists banned, economy in collapse. Clearly the situation is now much worse in Fiji than prior to the coup.
And the dictatorship has yet to prove even one instance of alleged corruption, supposedly one of the principal reasons for the coup. Not that it was a good enough reason in any event.
While NZ clearly has defamation laws and an ability of Courts to enforce their orders the situation is wholly different to what is happenening in Fiji, and it is mischevious of you to suggest otherwise.
However, we do need a way to have a proper dialogue with Fiji – maybe some quiet diplomacy with people they respect, someone like Sir Peter Tapsell or Koro Wetere.
Wayne
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 2:09 pm
Adolf – the man was jailed after having spent two years defying court orders – and that is a free court, not a military appointed one.
I would have thought Adolf that as someone who enjoys criticising the NZ Govt through a blog, you would side with your counterparts in Fiji who have far far more reason to be anonymous bloggers.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 3:11 pm
Adolf’s been singing this refrain for some time. When the coup first occurred two camps emerged over at Humptys. Those who thought it outrageous that the millitary should usurp democracy using force and those who thought the military had done a good thing in removing a bad administration. Adolf was at the forefront of the latter (with the simian Andrew gibbering in support). Those of the former persuasion who thought this was an outrage were poo-pooed because the coup appeared so…well…benign. Watch out, warned the opponents, anything taken by the threat of force is impossible to control without the exertion of even more force…this is going to get a lot worse. Oh but how Adolf and others laughed. This was the “good” military removing a “bad” PM. How could it be bad. The people were behind it.
Well, as things have gathered momentum on the downward spiral, Adolf is becoming an increasingly isolated voice. His defence of this dictatorship is becoming increasingly shrill as things go pear-shaped.
Oh well, I suppose in the grand scheme of things it is a trifle. After all, Fiji will be washed away by seas swollen by frozen ice water….oh, hang on…Adolf doesn’t believe in global warming either….
Someone should ask him about Nazi death camps. One more logic-free denialist reaction and he’ll have an easy hat-trick.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 3:12 pm
That should be the simian Andrei…. not Andrew. Although I imagine the simian qualifier put Andrei in most people’s minds straight-away.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 3:23 pm
Wayne, how many people have been killed in custody in NZ since the latest Fiji coup? Would you care to guestimate how many people would have been killed by now if the illegally elected regaime of Qarase had pushed though it’s insane programme of legislation? Certainly the manner of Bainimaram’s instaltion was less than ideal but you of all people should recognise that realpolitik often means choosing the lesser of two evils. In my opinion and that of the vast majority of Fijians I meet the current regime is by far and away better for ALL the people of Fiji than the one it replaced.
Why is the Fiji economy in collapse? Anything to do with outrageously over the top travel advisories from NZ, by chance? Ask the expat Kiwi resort operastors who is the cause of their difficulties and you won’t find too many blaming the Commodore.
You and other theoreticians from afar might wish for there to be ‘proven’ allegations of corruption but I don’t think the ordinary people of Fiji are so fussy. They actually know what was going on because the people with their noses in the trough could not keep their big mouths shut and ordinary people could see who it was who was suddenly living far beyond his or her apparent means. If you are meaning to imply that the Qarase regime was NOT corrupt then you ar as deluded as Marion Hobbs who pronounced the last election kosher.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 3:25 pm
Dead Duck Dux – kinda spoils it a bit when you go for the pretentious “look-at-my-impressive-vocabulary” king hit, and blow it by making your own dumb arse blunder in the process!
Better luck next time!
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 3:51 pm
numma, numma, nummma…
Great contribution 1/10! The “king hit” is that Adolf has made an ass of himself over Fiji. Hey, but you focus on semantics…
Adolf likes to take a critical eye on the doings of the civil service and yet, when part of the bureaucracy in Fiji quite literally takes over, Adolf’s left defending it. Let’s not excuse this lapse. In many other threads Adolf has expounded his views about unrestrained bureaucratic interference in personal freedoms and yet, when this jumped-up bureaucrat with a gun, assumes control of government through force and starts governing by fiat Adolf thinks that’s OK??? What a farce! Turns out Adolf is about as freedom-loving as the 2nd Comintern Congress! Actually, that’s probably a little unfair – Adolf applauds Central State Planning and Government by Dictatorship when it’s in India. Back here in NZ, we’ve got to accept that he really does not like Labour’s heavy interventionist hand or the influence the technocrats in Wellington have over government policy. Yeah, fucking right!
But hey, 1/10, you sweat the details.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 4:53 pm
DDT you really have excelled yourself. You might do better if you spluttered less and checked a few facts. I can’t recall when I have commenteed about India, dear boy. I’ve never been there. And if you think my comments have been shrill, you aint seen nuthin yet.
Tell me, have you lived for any length of time in Fiji? Do you even begin to comprehend how the place ticks? Do you understand that citizens of Fijian and Indian descent actually trust the army far more than they trust politicians of any hue or the Council of Chiefs? Did you know that there has not been a census for some years in Fiji? Were you aware that such a census is a prerequisite for a constitutionally legal election?
Have you not noticed that the Fijian military (comprised almost entirely of ethnic Fijians) is actually working to protect the interests of the Indo Fijian populace? Does it not occur to you to wonder why? To look beyond the surface? Are you so thick that you can’t see that all the shouting and ballyhoo about ‘how awful this all is’ is coming predominantly from loud mouths outside Fiji? Of course there are some dissenters in Fiji. They’ve had their nice little gravy trains taken away. Of course the media are being controlled. Journalists have less credibility than politicians. Have you seen what happens when a gang of kava soaked yobbos becomes incited by clever bullshit artists like you and starts running around swinging machetes and cane knives? Do you even know what a cane knife looks like?
Instead of shooting your mouth off with big words and grandiose verbage, don’t you think it might be more helpful to encourage NZ and Australian officials to help Fiji get a proper census carried out ASAP so that they can have a decent election for the first time in perhaps ten years?
The key question is: Would you think widespead civil unrest,violence and deaths resulting from Qarase’s divisive and racsist legislation is preferable to Bainimarama’s approach? You probably would but then again (to use your parlance) that’s what I’d expect from a fucking idiot such as you.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Adolf – this whole “have you lived there” is such lame shit. As if that’s a convincing argument. I just happen to be a democrat and I find any dictatorship repellent. I don’t feel a need to live in a dictatorship for a decade before feeling competent to challenge it. Oh, I don’t know what a machete is? How the fuck is that relevant? You’re nothing but an apologist for a jumped up bureaucrat with a gun. But you lived there, so…
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Yes, just as I thought. You are full of shit.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 5:44 pm
“journalists rounded up for questioning,”
Good damn job.. they’re getting what they’ve cheered for for years.. big powerful gummint…
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 5:47 pm
“I just happen to be a democrat and I find any dictatorship repellent.”
What crap… !!
Leftists love dictators.. they’re all your fucken poster boys..
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 7:48 pm
Redbaiter, I gather your not a fan of leftists- and our “dictators,” presumably because you are one of the bougeiose struggling under the opressive taxation system of our Dear Leader Helen. Anyway, good point DF, it’s a shame to see Fiji get so screwed up.
“Instead of shooting your mouth off with big words and grandiose verbage, don’t you think it might be more helpful to encourage NZ and Australian officials to help Fiji get a proper census carried out ASAP so that they can have a decent election for the first time in perhaps ten years?”
I wonder if Adolf could flesh out his idealistic aims of solving Fiji’s problems. How exactly are “NZ and Australian officials” going to be Fiji’s redeemers if Fiji expel our High Commissioner? Seems a bit odd to me… Also, I’m loving the criticism of DDD for his “grandiose verbage-” perhaps an attempt at irony (or just simple hypocrisy)?
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 7:50 pm
When you actually think about it, a benevolent dictatorship is superior to a bad democracy (I’m thinking of New Zealand’s recent past).
Yugoslavia’s Tito is the only benevolent dictatorship I can think of. Are or were there others? Perhaps Czarist Russia comes close also.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 9:05 pm
Ross, I hardly think you’d prefer Czarist Russia to New Zealand in 2007. Then again, we do have a “bad democracy” of MMP and corruption and vote rigging. Yeah, right.
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 9:43 pm
So, in summary: Adolf thinks that when democratic governments get ugly the answer is for the bureaucracy to step in.
Then we get a bunch of other freedom lovers suggesting dictatorship can be a good thing???? Right…
Finally, we get Redbaiter proving once again, as if it needed proving, that he’s all form not substance. ‘Baiter, you’re all mouth, no trousers.
And did anyone notice that Red and Adolf are poles apart – what with Adolf arguing for the centralised, state-control of a military dictatorship and Red denouncing anything that remotely looks like government as being an assault on freedom – and yet curiously they refuse to engage with each other. So frightened are they that any dissent between them might give the lefties on this board an opportunity to sneer about the right’s inconsistency – they’ll rather ignore the glaring poles that they’re squatting on.
Ross, I don’t think you’re helping Adolf. I think Adolf wants to pretend that the men who took control of the Fijian parliament complex by pointing guns at unarmed officials is not dangerous – it’s just larks and japes. Everything is OK. The assaults, the road-blocks, the removal of pesky personal freedoms – it’s nothing. It’s a picnic!
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 9:51 pm
Just FYI, I’m no pro-dictator type, I actually like democracy… And DDD, rock on!
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 9:53 pm
“So, in summary: Adolf thinks that when democratic governments get ugly the answer is for the bureaucracy to step in.”
Nice summary Fuckwit
Vote:July 22nd, 2007 at 9:55 pm
DPF, without entering into the debate over whether or not Fiji is right or wrong on this, its illegal in many states around the world to “speculate and say bad things about people” (defamation still being a criminal offence in some places). Even where its not criminal, speculating and saying bad things about people could amount to the civil torts of libel and or defamation.
New Zealand continues diplomatic and trade relations with e.g., Singapore, where defamation suits are regularly used by the government to stifle dissent; and where blogging is and bloggers are closely monitored by the state.
If its not acceptable to NZers for Fiji to do this, why is it ignored when it happens in Singapore, Malaysia and elsewhere?
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 12:07 am
“If its not acceptable to NZers for Fiji to do this, why is it ignored when it happens in Singapore, Malaysia and elsewhere?”
Because, for better or worse, when it happens in those countries, its an outcome of what passes for democracy. In Fiji, its an outcome of dictatorial force.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 8:17 am
Wayne,
Please get your facts right.
2 deaths in custody (not 4). 1 in Police custody, 1 in military custody. Both incidents are under investigation.
Incidentally, how many deaths in custody were reported in NZ last year?
CTP
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 8:53 am
CTP: Get YOUR facts right. How many people have died in custody at the hands of the NZ authorities? Zero. That’s the answer. And last year? Zero. And the year before? Zero! You have to go back to the days of capital punishment to find an example of a New Zealand official killing someone in custody.
There have been lots of deaths in custody in NZ – it continues every year. Some occur naturally (like heart attacks) and some occur by their own hands (suicides and accidents) and finally there are a very small number perpetuated between prisoners (murder and manslaughter). There’s not even a suggestion of official involvement.
Contrast this with Fiji.
Here’s a test for Adolf, CTP, Red and all of the other apologists for Centrally Planned Dictatorship: Take a trip to Fiji and try and hold a public meeting outside the Suva barracks where you call for an independent inquiry into the Fijian deaths in custody. See what happens.
Now for contrast, try the same thing outside of Mt Eden, or Trentham Military base or outside of the Prime Minister’s residence…or anywhere.
Here’s the thing: You’ll be arrested in Fiji – no question about that. In New Zealand you’d barely get an eyelid batted your way.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 9:44 am
I have a more relevant question.
How many New Zealand civlians has the New Zealand army dragged off the street and beaten up for being critical of the CGS?
How many New Zealand newspapers have had a visit from soldiers and been told what they can and can’t say?
How many toursits have had “a visit to the barracks” for looking at grunts the wrong way in public?
The people who are being so rightous in their condescending dismissal of the illegal activites on Bananarama and his gange of armed thugs would tollerate this sort of thing in their own country for two seconds.
Why is it different for Fiji?
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 9:56 am
Sean – if you can’t tell the difference between charging someone with defamation and putting it to trial and having soldiers with no legal authority take you into barracks to beat you up, then that is sad.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 10:13 am
Wayne
What are the four deaths in custody? I am aware of 3 allegations. One in military custody (under investigation by police and HR Commission), one in police custody (completely unrelated to the military and under investigation) and one that is somehow connected because he died in a pub fight after being released from military custody.
Also, wasn’t the economy already in collapse?
As for corruption how long does it take an SFO investigation?
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 10:28 am
And meanwhile on the the 9th H1 and H2 and others are muttering how if only they could get away with the same thing as regards bloggers.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 10:34 am
NI surprise that Adolf loves military dictatorships, he’d like the same here.
As for the laughable redbaiter, I for one remember his impassioned defence of General Pinochet.,
Nuff said.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 11:25 am
As substantial as always chronic. Just sneer at people without actually offering anything to the conversation.
No wonder you were transported.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 12:24 pm
How long have you had this problem of accusing others of your own faults Murray?
You’ve never made a substantial point on any thread I’ve ever seen, and even your nicknames have all the wit of a grandmother falling down the stairs,
“Chronic” did you make that up yourself or did your friends help?
Dont give up the day job for a career in comedy any time soon Murray.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 1:02 pm
This entire post came from me you knob.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 1:27 pm
You quoted an article that you found online verbatim and you think that makes a good writer?
Easily pleased with yourself, go quote some Shakespeare and you can call yourself a playwright!
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 1:28 pm
“Here’s the thing: You’ll be arrested in Fiji – no question about that. In New Zealand you’d barely get an eyelid batted your way.”
You would if what you said was un PC. Such as “offensive” (code for confronting leftist social doctrines) to wimmin, or homosexuals, or Maoris, or even one legged Nigerian midgets.
Duck, as a common and garden type commie sycophant, is trying hard to convey the impression that under the Klark socialist regime, citizen’s rights to say what they think and feel are protected by the gummint, when in actuality, the gummint, those socialist scum, are hell bent on making sure that everyone in the country speaks thinks and acts as one.
They want us to be shoal fish, or termites, or more aptly lemmings, and if you don’t conform to the approved model, you will be dealt with. Not as harshly and crudely as the Fiji dictators might deal with you, but you will be guided down the correct path by much more sophisticated means. (Ask some of the sportsmen who have been ordered to attend training camps)
Socialist plans to incrementally limit speech and thought in NZ have been progressed to stage where they’re all rubbing their hands with glee. (look how cowed the Nats are)
Klark and her acolytes (like you Duck) have no business sneering at any attempts by the dictators in Fiji to limit freedom of expression. Anyone with any intelligence knows that the long term objective of the socialists is a one party totalitarian state, with (in the end) only a pretence to care about the annoyance of democracy.
The only real difference between the Fijian Generals and the socialists is that the Generals lack the patience and cunning of your average left wing politician.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 1:50 pm
“They want us to be shoal fish, or termites, or more aptly lemmings”
Or possibly Wallabies, groundhogs, Pukekos or blackbirds.
Paradise shell ducks?
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 2:55 pm
Keep flapping, Red. There’s not a person on this board who doesn’t find your impassioned defence of a military dictatorship that has quashed individual liberties, taken a direct and clumsy hand in directing the economy and is vigorously clamping down on dissent as being anything but hilarious. The more you wind into this topic the funnnier and more extreme the humour becomes. Keep going, it’s fucking funny. Seriously. Next you’ll be singing the praises of North Korea!
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 3:20 pm
Cuba / Fiji – lets play spot the difference
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 3:50 pm
Cuba has a decent health care system?
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 4:09 pm
“There’s not a person on this board”
Typical gutter class collectivist, arrogantly assuming the right to express opinions for everybody else. Irish bog farmers for parents no doubt.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 4:15 pm
“Cuba has a decent health care system?”
According to Castro and Michael Moore they have.
Like you would dare challenge a couple of the left’s cultural icons Sonic??
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 4:18 pm
What’s wrong with the Irish?! I’d love to be descended from the Irish. Unfortunately not. But I don’t get the dig? What, is this some sort of “Irishmen are dumb” throw-back? How seventies of you.
And “gutter class”???? What, working people not good enough for you??? So your an elitist git too?
So, let me get this right, you’re a freedom-hating bigoted elitist who hates the Irish. What a hat-trick. Throw in a comment about stupid bitches and you’d be able to claim some sort of Bingo prize.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 5:00 pm
“But I don’t get the dig?”
Of course not. It refers to your lack of manners (in speaking for others), which lack has only arisen because no doubt your ignorant bog farmer parents were similarly bereft. Clear now you mungbean?
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 5:18 pm
Cuba has a decent health care system?
Only for the rich foreigners and politically connected.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 6:39 pm
What?! ‘Baiter, I said I am not of Irish descent. But if I were, I would take exception to your suggestion that lacking in manners is an Irish trait. I found all of the Irishmen I know to be polite, intelligent and cultured people. You really do take the cake.
And, by the way, I love the mung bean quote. That’s classic. I might use it.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 6:56 pm
Dead Duck Dux You have to go back to the days of capital punishment to find an example of a New Zealand official killing someone in custody.
A prison warder named Pierce Woodnut sat on and killed a prisoner in Witako (as it used to be called) prison some years ago.
Also some years ago, an arrested person died in the back of a police car after a policeman sat on him during the trip back to the police car.
In both cases they were subduing the unruly prisoner.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 7:05 pm
I think people took it to mean deliberately killed – not accidental deaths. But hey, you want to go back twenty-odd years to find two tenuous cases involving accidental deaths then I think you’ve sort of proved my point.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 7:21 pm
They were deaths in custody caused by the actions of those in charge and they happened well after the end of captial punishment. You didn’t specify any other time frame or conditions.
I’m fairly sure they both occured during the 90s rather than 20 years ago.
Vote:July 23rd, 2007 at 8:26 pm
TC: Again, I think you prove my point.
Vote:July 25th, 2007 at 3:21 pm
Dead Duck – what about the kid killed in the back of the prison van (that’s within the last 12 months).
Vote:June 25th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
Well well well,
There is a new church in fiji known as the new methodist. I have heard stories about this upcoming church, the head man of this church seem to be preaching false teaching of God but condeming other christian church in Fiji. They should not to such things or they would get God’s angry upon them and there fellowers, Stop the gossip and start asking for forgives befores its to late.
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