DPF busy
Been in meeting all morning about digital broadcasting regulation (which I will blog on – well on the topic not the meeting, which was non-reportable) and am chairing an InternetNZ meeting this afternoon.
So not had time to cover stuff like the surplus now a deficit, “Slippery John”, verioud overhang scenarios, the Democratic race in the US or the latest Goff for Leader article by Chris Trotter. May get to them tonight.
Treat this as a general debate thread though.
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Tags: General Debate
March 6th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
D4J – have you seen this thread? Your comments?
http://kiwiblogblog.wordpress.com/2008/02/27/what-goes-around-comes-around-for-peter-burns/
[DPF: General Debate I aloow a lot more latitude but deliberate starting off a flamewar is still beyond the limit. Only a warning this time but demerits next time]
March 6th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Is Daniel Vettori’s tendency to get out in the 80s and 90s a sign that he’s gone so far in replacing Fleming as skipper that he’s now replicating his batting?
March 6th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
p.s Roger Nome that is trolling at its worst…
For shame
March 6th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
Zzzzzz….do keep up nome
http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2008/02/text_abuse.html
March 6th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
D4J – have you seen this thread? Your comments?
Doesnt D4J have his own blog? Or is your goal solely to cause a shit fight over here so you can then run off and call this place a cess pool?
March 6th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Bit tough the labour liars calling JK slippery when their own glorious leader was more slippery than a teflon coated eel in a bucket of snot till the media found their balls recently.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Okay, I’ll throw this in for consideration: the move to allow young criminals to be ankle tagged and sent home on bail because there aren’t sufficient facilities to deal with them properly and the alternative is to lock them up in police cells.
A judge should be able to assess whether a young offender poses a risk to the community and, if s/he believes they will, have them detained in custody; but not in the appalling conditions that are found in the police cells – particularly when these people mist be considered innocent till proven guilty.
The solution is a greater number of appropriate facilities, but no doubt we’ll be told there’s no money in Dr Cullen’s kitty. Meanwhile, I assume the government funds a program which says it’s treating children as young as five for “sex offending”. Now undoubtedly some of these cases are serious. But I wonder how many are the sort of “doctors and nurses” stuff that a generation ago would have been dealt with by a spell sitting in the naughty corner?
March 6th, 2008 at 2:54 pm
Fleming was as about as useful as he has always been. He should have retired when he lost the captancy, he’s embarassing himself and the team. Give an up and coming opening batsman his spot to learn the ropes of test cricket, it is not likely he’d be any worse than Fleming.
P.S. I agree david c, – Roger, Kiwiblog is not a mesage board. If you’ve got something to say to D4J send him an email.
March 6th, 2008 at 2:56 pm
Bit tough the labour liars calling JK slippery when their own glorious leader was more slippery than a teflon coated eel in a bucket of snot till the media found their balls recently.
Ahhh John, the imagery your post contains is a wonder in itself!
March 6th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
Look Phillip John Mason – roger nome. Lets finish this here and now, as you claim I am kimble on another thread. One of us are going from this blog you slime ball cowardly snake. You are such a loser I am sickened I am in the same Country as you.
[DPF: Calm down D4J. I don't want any flamewar and have told off RN for tryign to start one]
March 6th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
What Farrar no demerits for Mason #### ? What the hell are you playing at ?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Phillip John/Roger Nome:
You’ve clocked up 110 demerits – 10 yesterday (or possibly the day before) and 20 more today on this thread. I’d suggest you take a week off from Kiwiblog and reflect on whether Dad-baiting is a good look for someone who aspires to be a “highly-paid academic”.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Didn’t you just love the Labour lackies slinging off at Kevin Atkinson over the HB-DHB corruption fiasco.
It’s classic Labour party spin Dr. response.
Deny
Delay
Denigrate
Still I guess it’s all they have, they are up to their necks in the bucket of shit King & Hausmann have created so now they are trying to attack the credibility of the people who have been trying to put some sunlight on this. It’s a disgrace – we need an election soon or this country is buggered. There is no way the health system can cope with another term of Labour using it as their own person play thing.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Anybody got a link for the latest “Goff for PM” article by comrade Trotter?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Here is the link to the new round of denigrate the accusers fresh from the Labour party spin Dr’s.
New claim in DHB stoush
March 6th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
David Farrar, thank you and I wrote my 3.06 comment before I read your instruction to roger Mason. I am trying to write within the provisions of internet protocol , however I am appalled at the low levels the socialists stoop to trying to silence criticism. I applaud the privilege you extend me, that is the ability to write on your blog. I wish to respect the rules you have put in place even though my track record would not indicate this. People can change. I think?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
“He should have retired when he lost the captancy, he’s embarassing himself and the team. ”
That is just idiotic. Fleming scored 41 runs. How did he embarass himself and the team? Why throw away a player that scores runs to bring in another player that might not?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:22 pm
Rex, lets face it the only reason we’re stuck in situation is because we (the citizens of New Zealand) have allowed the cost of building new prisons to rocket through the roof by requiring them to have every bell and whistle required to fit in with the modern concept of prisoner welfare.
While I’m not for one second advocating prisoner abuse or providing them with subhuman living conditions I equally don’t believe that you need to build prisons with gardens and underfloor heating. If it was perfectly acceptable to imprison hundreds of soldiers in wooden barracks, surrounded by barbed wire and guard towers in the 40s why not today?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
I posted THIS link once before: “Fidel Castro; the Teflon Tyrant Resigns”, by Humberto Fontova
I ended up with one negative Karma point for it. What’s the guts? Where DO Kiwis, and particularly the “centre right” Kiwiblog users, stand on this leftover Commie tyrant?
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=1108FA89-5019-4FE5-A2FA-612C1B38C9D5
March 6th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Talking about communists PhilBest- here is one for rogered gnomer;
http://www.henrymakow.com/000843.html
March 6th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
Isn’t he NZ’s highest run scorer ever?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
Thats right llew, and he averaged almost 40.
Obvioulsy anyone talking about dropping a batsman because they only scored a little above their average doesnt know shit about cricket.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
Last week’s Listener sports column (can’t remember the journo, but he’s a good read) suggested that Fleming will be somewhat unfairly ranked behind Crowe & Turner as our finest, because he didn’t score as many centuries.
Does seem rather arbitrary ranking.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:45 pm
“Anybody got a link for the latest “Goff for PM” article by comrade Trotter?”
BB – For some reason Trottski’s column is not live on the SST site.
He’s really got it in for miss clark – never thought we would share common ground.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Wodga the lying gnome gets my vote on DPF Island Tribal Council.
Put his torch out David.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:46 pm
Yeah Mike, I heart chris trotter lately too!
March 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
“I ended up with one negative Karma point for it. What’s the guts? Where DO Kiwis, and particularly the “centre right” Kiwiblog users, stand on this leftover Commie tyrant?” Great article thanks PB.
You just down understand the rules right wingers bad/left wingers good.
Uncle Joe killed at least three times as many as Hitler but the left still have a sneaking admiration for him.
Mao wasnt such a bad fellow really but a man of vision ditto Uncle Ho.
Harden up, report to the Comintern for re-education
March 6th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Fleming should rank below Turner and Crowe because he wasn’t in their class as a batsman. He had more talent than them but he never actualised it. He’ll retire with an average below 40 and 9 maybe 10 centuries to his name. That’s not world class at all. Crowe and Turner were world class.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:53 pm
Last week Helen took the media on and presented a veiled threat to give her more respect. And the MSM does exactly that. Now the MSM are extremely negative on John Key and are reporting and promoting the name calling of Key. To report the use nasty names in the headlines is clearly a Labour promoted headline. I would expect that in one party started negative name calling the media would have the headline just that “Labour resorts to gutter politics” rather than “slippery John”.
And then to give a whole story on Key’s policy “Blunder” over the DHB and other scandals seems very Labour friendly. It appears Helen can still scare them into line.
March 6th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Or maybe they’re just reporting it as it happens Precipice…
Labour cock up…say they did.
National cock up…ditto
March 6th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
National need a mongrel to fight back against Klarkula’s venom. Sadly I cannot see one in the wings?
March 6th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
David c
Are you taking the piss?, Crowe and Turner had twice the natural talent of Fleming.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
So the good time managers can’t hack the hard stuff. As always labour squander the hard work of others then the nats have to come back and clean up the mess so that the process can be repeated. When will we ever learn. Labour are deluding themselves if they think the public will trust them with the purse strings during a downturn because they won’t let up on the tax take and yet it will be the only thing that will save the economy and the pockets of the now hardpressed worker. Higher interest reates, lower productivity, higher Government expenditure, larger public work force and now let’s buy back the railways. Sound familiar. Back to 1984. LOSERS be gone and let some new innovative blood into the life steam of this country. Labour are just not capable of innovation or growth because it is fundamentally against their priciples.
As to the Auckland Airport. It is already private. It is not a state asset. It can’t be taken away by an overseas interest because they can never have more than 30% voting rights. So it will always be a strategic asset and NZ’rs will always have ultimate control. No one can physically shift it but we need the investment to grow the beast. For God’s sake get into the global world and recognise that where the money comes from doesn’t matter. Besides Labour privatised it in the first place. Political wankers, opportunists.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
‘slippery john’..
it sorta fits/’sticks’..
eh..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 6th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
Hey Whaleoil has the Hausmann edits up for all to see.
Beautiful, can hardly wait for this to run it’s course!
March 6th, 2008 at 4:22 pm
Fleming should be remembered not only as a top batsman, but the best captain we’ve ever had. His ability to set a field was non-pareil (apart from a few Aussies) and had he had the fielders the Aussies had, we would have seen a few more cracking results under his watch.
As for the surplus disappearing, how about we just cut public spending? Fucking typical Cullen tactic.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
So what is the next big political story:
King resigns – SFO/Police investigate HB-DHB tender process.
Oh I forgot for a moment this is NZ and the scandal involves the Labour party – they don’t do accountability. Move on – nothing to see here, it was in the public’s best interest and the board has already been sacked so it’s too late.
I suppose it’s time I fesssed up. I know both Atkinson & Hausmann (not via their connections with the DHB) and I know which one of them is a straight shooter and which one of them is not. One is a highly respected man of integrity, the other – well it looks like he edits RFP documents to further his own interests.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
Buggerlugs
Just watch the spend up now. I have been asked to write invoices in advance of supply and guess others are in the same situation.
Its all very similar to the 70s when we used to get orders in the heavy industry firm I worked for. The orders would arrive in Feb/march for supply in Sept/Oct the start of the road making season. We would invoice and be paid by 31st march and tuck the money in the bank earning interest or reducing the O/D.
This time round Clark and Cullen are determined to repeat the 1990 efforts and leave the cupboard well and truly bare and then set about JK and BE after election 08 for having no money for tax cuts.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
isn’t hausmann related by marriage to the owner of hcnz? if so, might make family dinners a bit awkward…
March 6th, 2008 at 4:46 pm
burt Like Ive already posted I would love the job of some creative interviewing of those who penned the emails to find out what they knew when they knew it and why the didnt file a PD report to the appropriate authority.
A little loosening of their tongues and Id soon find out the truth the whole turth and nothing but the truth.
And where the trail leads to
March 6th, 2008 at 4:52 pm
The Hive are implying Cullen as the next leader, more likely as the Old Left are fimly in charge of Labour now
March 6th, 2008 at 4:53 pm
gd
As you always say: Follow the money.
Kevin is a self made man, he hasn’t needed to earn an income from daily graft for many many years. This in itself tells us something.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:54 pm
Cullen as the hnext leader…. now that’s ridiculous. The 1999 tax thresholds will stay in place till such time as the minimum wage is $35/hour and Cullen will still be wondering why 100% of the population are complaining about paying too much tax.
The man is a muppet.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Fleming is world class in New Zealand, there is no question about that. And there was a time when he would have captained a World XI, which is saying a lot.
I dont like comparing players from the old days with the guys playing now. Would Don Bradman be as great a batsman today? We just dont know; the game is too different.
The surplus has not disappeared. OBERGAL is still positive.
March 6th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Thanks for picking up the topic Mr Nobody NZ.
Well as I understand it the gardens grow produce for consumption in the prisons thus reducing the food bill and (perhaps) teaching some prisoners some viable horticulatural skills which might keep them off the recidivism treadmill. And anyone who’s ever felt the calmness that can come in a garden and the satisfaction of eating produce you’ve grown yourself might also hope (perhaps vainly, I admit) that at least a few prisoners would experience similar emotions. Cheaper than loading them up with Prozac or giving them counselling.
And I don’t know about underfloor heating but unless the prisons are in the far north they’d need some form of heating. Since underfloor heating is used in commercial buildings I’m assuming it’s chosen for cost-effectiveness but perhaps an engineer or builder might comment?
Similarly with things like TVs. If you lock someone in a cell for 12 hours a day they have to have something to do. Since many prisoners are functionally illiterate and the prison authorities are uninterested in really tackling the problem, a small 14 inch set (I picked up a larger flat screen CRT model for $40 recently) seems not unreasonable… it’s when they start carting in plasmas that things have clearly gone too far.
Because we understood less about psychology and recidivism and offender behaviour in those days. Because the technology to cheaply and safely heat a barracks wasn’t available then and is now. Because the average family was lucky to have an efficient heater let alone a big screen TV and we naturally expect prisoners to have less than those on the outside. Now most families have heaters; and gardens.
It used to be acceptable to stone people for adultery, too. Hopefully we’ve moved on, or else there’s a few politicians and sportspeople I know who can look forward to some bruises
Edit: Ooops I almost forgot my own point! Which was that we might have more money to spend on prisons (and hospitals) if we stopped funding the hand-wringers referenced in my second link to “counsel” young Timmy every time he displayed the (perfectly natural, and easily dealt with) urge to play doctors and nurses with his female playschool counterpart.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
They put them underfloor – and some are little more than hot water pipes – so that they cannot be accessed by inmates & cannibalised to make weapons.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
Rex – good post. However, I do believe wooden barracks (without a roof), no shoes, and a daily flogging (at least) should still apply for child sex offenders/child beaters. And perhaps the occasional gate to the wooden barracks left open…but a manned machine gun pit hidden just outside the gate…
March 6th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Nah, not a manned machine gun pit, Mrs Titewai Honawira and a few warrior colleagues and all the tools to deal with sex offenders “the traditional Maori way”………
March 6th, 2008 at 5:13 pm
Swampy said “The Hive are implying Cullen as the next leader, more likely as the Old Left are fimly in charge of Labour now”
I’ve just blogged about that – as soon as the cat’s away (on April 2nd) the mice are going to play eh – especially if the next round of polls don’t show any bounceback. Still, the broadcast media are trying their hardest at Helen’s behest aren’t they.
http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2008/03/beware-ides-of-april.html
March 6th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
She’s fucked…a week away – the knives will be out and all the arselickers will be running around trying to get their tongue near the anointed one…
March 6th, 2008 at 5:28 pm
I hear Slippery Johns’ Mate Hoani is threatening all kinds of hell and damnation on those partys that want to do away with the Maori seats.
So has Slippery John got the nuts to stick to his plan. 2010 wasn’t it or 2014? gee not sure, when all treaty claims are settled or was that all Treaty claims filed.
Gee i’m not sure, Murrey, Bill, Gerry help me what do i say. Help, Help.
March 6th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Cullen as Leader is an excellent idea. It should be encouraged by all and sundry for the benefit of this country’s future. He is a bigger prick than Dunne and as soon as Labour put a male in the job the disproportionate number of females supporting Labour will rectify itself. Go the left wing – may you have all you wish for – Cullen is perfect for the job!!
March 6th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
How Goff/Cullen fill in their days at the moment…
1. Open a new file in your computer.
2. Name it “Helen Clark”.
3. Send it to the Recycle Bin.
4. Empty the Recycle Bin.
5. Your PC will ask you………………. “Do you really want to get rid of “Helen Clark?”
6. Firmly Click “Yes.”
March 6th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
“Nah, not a manned machine gun pit, Mrs Titewai Honawira and a few warrior colleagues and all the tools to deal with sex offenders “the traditional Maori way”………
She was tough enough to make “The most capable Prime Minister we have ever had” burst into tears. A couple of dozen gang members will be a pushover for Titiwhai.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:00 pm
dad4justice +11 Says:
March 6th, 2008 at 3:17 pm
David Farrar, thank you and I wrote my 3.06 comment before I read your instruction to roger Mason. I am trying to write within the provisions of internet protocol , however I am appalled at the low levels the socialists stoop to trying to silence criticism. I applaud the privilege you extend me, that is the ability to write on your blog. I wish to respect the rules you have put in place even though my track record would not indicate this. People can change. I think?
There’s a bit of brown stuff on your nose there, Dad!
March 6th, 2008 at 6:14 pm
“I hear Slippery Johns’ Mate Hoani is threatening all kinds of hell and damnation on those partys that want to do away with the Maori seats.”
I hear that the “Teflon Eel” is so pissed that Maori are showing such ingratitude to the Liars party after all these years that they have been taken for granted that she is going to get the health minister to issue a Government warning that “Hongi-ing is bad for your health” It will be issued retrospectively in best socialist tradition to catch JK and Tama Iti.
March 6th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
RRM – Look I can’t call you names, as I will be get MORE fucking demerits and a two month ban. Brown stuff on my nose eh. Try saying that to my face and see how long YOU remain standing ####!!
March 6th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
Buggerlugs (@ 5.51) … now the entire office is wondering why I just yelled “Haaaaaaaaaaa!!”
Actually, if they’re really frustrated they could install a program called Eraser. It adds another option to the right click menu on the recycle bin. So then they could opt to be asked “Are you sure you want to erase ‘Helen Clark’?”.
For that added touch of realism they could stuff their mouths with cotton balls and stroke a cat while clicking “Okay”
March 6th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Roger Douglas came to speak at Canterbury today… I think the socialists were a lot more easier on him than they were on Rodney and Richardson ‘cos he was elderly and gentle
March 6th, 2008 at 6:54 pm
“..elderly and gentle..”
like mccain..?
has anyone else noticed he has old mans arms..?
he can’t lift them above shoulder level..?
someone fit that man for a zimmer-frame..!
phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 6th, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Hey Buggerlugs re your 5:51 post.
Wouldn’t a smarter move be to name the file Labour Govt!
At least that would get rid of all those socialist losers in one keystroke…….
March 6th, 2008 at 7:11 pm
philu, you pathetic scumbag, John McCain cannot raise his arms above his head as he was tortured by the North Vietnamese whilst he was held as a POW for five years. If you hadn’t been smoking the strong stuff for most of your adult life you would know this, seeing as you take such an interest in American politics.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:13 pm
so..why won’t he rennounce america torturing..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 6th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
# dad4justice Add karma Subtract karma +0 Says:
March 6th, 2008 at 6:36 pm
RRM – Look I can’t call you names, as I will be get MORE fucking demerits and a two month ban. Brown stuff on my nose eh. Try saying that to my face and see how long YOU remain standing ####!!
ROFL, so in fear of demerits instead of abusing people here you decide to respond to their comments on Kiwiblog at their blogs under topics about missionaries in overseas countries?
You are evil satanic crap and do watch your step at Uni with the Mainzeal lads!!
You truly are a delinquent idiot and unlike you I’m not too pussy to tell you right here at the risk of demerits that you desperately need to take that dildo out of your ass and suck on it to shut up.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Are you sure it is me or the other dad4justice that you invented .Remember doing that ? Hey dad4justice@muslim etc etc .
These internet snakes are beyond belief, maybe Rebel , too many cup chicks eh?
You are so twisted just like a buzzard in a jar. Good try stan. Incredible the lengths you evil bastards go to. Why bother, as everybody knows what you are about .
March 6th, 2008 at 7:28 pm
By the way D4J, you’re right I do have to watch my step when I’m at Canterbury since you shit all over the place.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:30 pm
# dad4justice Add karma Subtract karma +0 Says:
March 6th, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Are you sure it is me or the other dad4justice that you invented .Remember doing that ? Hey dad4justice@muslim etc etc .
These internet snakes are beyond belief, maybe Rebel , too may cup chicks eh?
Well why not tell us what your IP address is then?
dad4justice | dad4justice@gmail.com | dad4justice.blogspot.com | IP: 122.57.8.227
Mainzeal lads are going to give you what you deserve dad4justice@muslim.com satanic creep. You are NO Christian YOU EVIL VIPER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mar 6, 6:22 PM — [ Edit | Delete | Unapprove | Approve | Spam | View Post ]
Also what’s this bullshit about dad4justice@muslim.com? I thought your alter ego was john?
March 6th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Unbelievable. It is NOT ME SNAKE. STOP THIS NOW .
WOW this is fucking unbelievable.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:36 pm
This is more than I can take . Why does this nutbar do this . That IP Address is not mine.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Ok well David can probably clear this up. I’m happy to be banned dpf but if you can confirm whether Dad4Justice’s IP address is 122.57.8.227 for us that would be awesome. I’m willling to apologise if I am wrong.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:43 pm
DPF:
This thread seems to have degenerated into a trainwreck (thanks to Phillip John/Roger Nome it never got off to a decent start). Why not introduce a regular “Play School thread” feature for certain nappy-soiled individuals who like flame wars and generally add nothing useful/constructive to discussions. That’ll hopefully allow general threads to remain reasonably civil.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:47 pm
Hey, my first post was Roger Douglas coming to visit Canterbury today, besides phil being a dumbass no-one else commented on it and my later comments were responses to what prima facie appears to be D4J’s retarded writing style threatening to harm me on campus. I don’t see you discussing anything constructive.
March 6th, 2008 at 7:50 pm
To give more details – about 100 people showed up, it was in the largest lecture theatre at Canterbury and he talked about what he would do if he was in charge of the country again – making the first $30,000 in income tax free, giving $6,000 in tax credits for health insurance and scholarships (aka vouchers) for schools. He did a relatively bad job at addressing student questions because he didn’t seem to understand the questions (e.g. someone blamed him for the 80s reforms causing today’s poverty and he just kinda went off on a tangent not realising they were attacking him… Either that or he was strategically avoiding what they were trying to get at) but was very good natured about it and laughed with everyone.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:04 pm
philu, he has renounced toture. I recall him being on the Late Show with David Letterman on the day that he announced his candidacy. Letterman asked him something about Guantanamo and he said something to the effect of “I would shut down Guantanamo and declare that we will never torture another person”. It was something like that, so he has renounced torture. All these advocates of torture, like Ann Coultor, Sean Hannity, and all the rest of the right wing nut jobs, don’t know what it is like. McCain does.
philu, Exhibit A: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8Ke33WVWtQ
March 6th, 2008 at 8:18 pm
dave c (from right up at the beginning): I’m sure that if DV keeps scoring 80′s and 90′s from number 9 that there won’t be too many NZ cricket fans calling for his head…
March 6th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Hi Rex
Personally making me garden would probably turn me into a homicidal manic
however gardens for food as far as I’m concerned aren’t an issue and in fact anything which makes the prison more self sufficient and less of a burden on the tax payer the better. I was actually referring to flower type gardens/landscaping which had $11 million allocated to for the 4 newest prisons constructed.
Actually both the new Northland and Auckland prison both got underfloor heating. Again, I’m not for the prisoners freezing or being treated in sub human conditions, ignoring the the human decency aspect sick prisoners cost you and I more money in having to treat their illnesses too. But when law elderly abiding citizens have to face the decision of keeping warm, paying their electricity bill or food bills each year providing underfloor heating to criminals is luxury we don’t need to do. Provide them warmer prison jumpsuits, an additional blanket. Yes I can hear the usual suspects saying “but what happens if they destroy them, have them stolen etc” thats not a problem the prison simply issues another set, and the prisoner is billed for the replacement set with the amount to be collected by IRD directly from any future benefit or income.
Actually military prison has a pretty good solution to this, hard manual labour during the day and if confined to cells a choice of your religious text (Bible/Koran etc) or a copy of Military Law. I accept that reading levels are not good so I would be happy to see either children readers like we had in school or even a audio copy of their religious text/NZ law being able to be played via a speaker built into the cell (yes they could turn it on/off themselves I’m not Chairman Mao I just wouldn’t allow person walkman’s, MP3 players etc
).
I’m not talking about harming or injuring anybody. All prisoners would be provided with adequate levels of food, water, shelter, clothing etc as per international guidelines. However those guidelines I believe say nothing prisoners requiring gardens, underfloor heating, tv, indivdual cells/toilets etc.
I understand what you’re saying and tend to agree, however if the issue is lack of revenue I’m quite happy for no tax cuts and even tax increases if it means we have enough prison cells to house all our prisoners and not have to release them back into the community on bail and hope the an electronic tag enough of deterrent.
March 6th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Hi there Mr Nobody NZ. It’s good to debate custodial issues with someone who, while taking a harder line than myself, isn’t of the “hang ‘em high” brigade.
$11 million for landscaping is ridiculous and it loses a valuable opportunity for training. In Australia trusted prisoners are allowed outside the grounds to landscape and garden and do an excellent job. Others not so trusted are assigned to particular areas within the prison and are expected to landscape and maintain them. They even grow native seedlings etc so the only costs are fertilisers and so forth.
Landscaping prisons is important for two reasons. First, there’s usually a large outdoor area where families – including children – come to visit. Making this as welcoming and natural as possible helps reduce the unhappiness for these children of seeing their father / brother / uncle / grandad etc in what is obviously not a nice place. Second, it’s the “broken windows” theory – that a decent well maintained environment gives the subliminal message that the authorities are in charge, not the prisoners, and that is anyone makes a mess it’ll be a fellow prisoner who cleans it up (and then cleans up the vandal afterwards).
For the government to allocate $11 million for something that could be done for next to nothing shows typical short sighted custodial thinking.
Actually, I think that’s a dangerous trap in which to fall. I’d instead argue that the government is failing in its duty if any of its citizens, including especially pensioners but even down to the lowliest prisoner, is left freezing. This is the 21st century in a western democracy – if all its citizens aren’t housed, fed and have warmth then there’s something seriously wrong. And of course there is.
I’m not sure how it works in NZ but in Australia things like TVs etc have to be bought by the prisoners or their relatives. Thus if they’re damaged they’re replaced by the people that bought them, not the state. That doesn’t extend to clothes, blankets etc. though. I can see problems in that prisoners do sabotage other prisoner’s property, so there’d be a lot of hassle for the already over-stressed guards in apportioning blame. But in principle it’s a promising idea.
Actually I’d prefer to see them encouraged to learn to read, write and do maths by means of apportioning privileges on the basis of their test scores. And giving further privileges to anyone who passed an external exam. And then locking them up with a book (fiction or non fiction). What of those of us who aren’t religious…?! Listening to someone drone on about their imaginary friend would be tantamount to torture!
That’s very generous of you… I’m sure Dr Cullen will pen a thank you note
But he has plenty of money, some of it in surplus,most of it being mis-spent, which could cover this and give you your tax cut. He just chooses not to.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:22 pm
radar..fair ’nuff..
i withdraw that allegation..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
March 6th, 2008 at 9:23 pm
One day we were doing OK and Cullen sort of promised tax cuts. Now we are in the red.
Where is all the government money going?
It is taxpayers money, where is it going to?
Vote Liarbor
March 6th, 2008 at 9:35 pm
What a thread. Rebel Heart and rogered gnomer are the same person and it just never stops. Unreal. No wonder people are leaving this country, as the calibre of some of the cowards that remain defies a suitable description. I didn’t know kiwiblog was a place where we could cut and paste comments that don’t appeal to a blog owner. Well I learn something new every day.
Hell I do wonder what makes some cowardly cretins tick, however the filth that attack me and hide behind the cloak of anonymity are well suited to the internet.
March 6th, 2008 at 9:39 pm
Do you like to look at your own penis for inspiration when you’re writing your posts Dad4Justice?
[DPF: 20 demerits]
March 6th, 2008 at 9:44 pm
Oh yeah speaking of cowards, don’t forget you’re the one who’s too pussy to disclose which Church you go to D4J, and was too pussy to show up at my address when you asked for it retard.
March 6th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Crikey – it must be fun at Church when you get all wound up, Stanley. Is that what they call speaking in tongues?
Anyway, on a far more serious matter, and to save me trawling through weeks of comments, DPF could you please tell us who has topped the -ve karma so far? I see a -37 here, has it been bettered?
March 6th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Why would anyone need to look at their penis for inspiration when there’s always some hairy nuts hanging round on any thread here…
March 6th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
Buggerlugs:
Do you mean Phillip John/Roger Nome? You’re chasing a moving target, mate – with my vote he’s now -39!
March 6th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
I bet it’s me. Or someone else who doesn’t all-hail Our Hero Mr John Key. We don’t like dissenters here, or anyone who disagrees with the happy “I hate liarbore too!” circle-jerk…
March 6th, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Buggerlugs Add karma Subtract karma +2 Says:
March 6th, 2008 at 10:13 pm
Crikey – it must be fun at Church when you get all wound up, Stanley. Is that what they call speaking in tongues?
Dude I know you just love D4J’s ass and enjoy licking it regularly with yours.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:15 pm
Dude I know you just love D4J’s ass and enjoy licking it regularly with yours.
Demerits:
Current Demerits:
March 6th, 2008 at 11:16 pm
RebelHeart – get a grip. I would suggest there are about 30 demerits on this thread for you – you’ll be banned in pretty short order if you keep this up.
RRM – or perhaps the karma is associated with people being active trolls or idiots? Are you putting your hand up for that?
March 6th, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Rex from your comments I think while our thoughts around justice while may not be exactly the same are at least similar enough if we ploughed through the details there would probably find ourselves agreeing on most things and the putting many of the other issues into the minor category so I won’t waste a lot of time writing an essay except to say I think the biggest change I would like to see made to our justice system is the separation in sentencing to include a separate punishment and rehabilitation components.
So for example if you were to be convicted for a series of 5 burglaries instead of being just sentenced to 1 year in prison, you might be sentenced to 5 years punishment (consecutive sentences would be the expected norm and judges instructed accordingly) and additional 2 years rehabilitation. The rehabilitation phase would be customised specifically to your needs and the identified causes of you committed your begin with. Parole would be unable to be considered until the punishment component had been completed, so for more serious crimes such as Homicide or Sexual offences you might be sentenced to 20 years for each offence and indefinite rehabilitation.
In addition prisoners would begin their sentence with zero privileges (no tv, no telephone, no visitation, no exercise rights, no access to a window, absolutely nothing). However if they follow the rules, stay out of trouble etc privileges are extended to them.
I believe the same sort of thing happens here, however your comment reminds me of an story I read in the paper a few years ago which was announcing that the Irish Government was taking a rule off the books that which allowed prisoners to “kit out” their cell pretty much as they wanted and could have a man servant work in the prison if they paid for it all themselves.
The rule had originally been designed for the “gentleman” class of the 18th century etc however when they started imprisoning the Senior Leadership of the IRA they apparently found this rule and had tried to use it.
March 6th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
Stan – how did you know my backside has a tongue? All those happy clappers call it a tail, and it is depicted as such here http://www.tattoosymbol.com/symbols/devil-tattoo.html but I have to admit the red pointy bit at the end has a mind of it’s own. Keep on collecting those demerits, and say a prayer for me next time you’re in Church
March 7th, 2008 at 1:06 am
RebelHeart – get a grip. I would suggest there are about 30 demerits on this thread for you – you’ll be banned in pretty short order if you keep this up.
Unlike you I honestly couldn’t care less if I was banned from this blog. I think it’s pathetic you guys support D4J pissing over every single thread here and don’t feel the need to call him out and I don’t mind pissing him off at all. Ironic also that I happened to post something of relevance to the original topic, which is the general debate – I raised awareness of Roger’s visit to Canterbury University. Besides Phil_U’s retarded linking of it to McCain D4J was the one who decided to throw the first stone and randomly threaten to harm me at university in reply, so I decided to respond to him because it’s fun to give him a taste of his own medicine, which he sucks at handling.
Stan – how did you know my backside has a tongue? All those happy clappers call it a tail, and it is depicted as such here http://www.tattoosymbol.com/symbols/devil-tattoo.html but I have to admit the red pointy bit at the end has a mind of it’s own. Keep on collecting those demerits, and say a prayer for me next time you’re in Church
Read your own post dumbass, you were referring to “speaking in tongues” and I was referring to that phrase, idiot.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:16 am
Mr Nobody NZ it’s never a waste of time intelligently debating penal reform – if we could get it right we’d cut recidivism and since recidivists are not only the most prolific criminals but tend to commit the more serious crimes we’d be doing society a great service.
Yikes! There’s a world of difference between natural light (necessary for health, I would have thought, as is exercise) and a television! Remember that banning them from the telephone and from visitation punishes their family – perhaps they have children, or elderly parents. In fact there’s all sorts of privileges which can be granted and withdrawn in jail – the right to prepare your own food rather than eat the stomach-turning slops dished up by the kitchen; the right to ‘free association’ (a few hours a day where prisoners can wander into one another’s cells); the right to access an outdoor enclosed yard in one’s free time; the right to work (and thus earn a small pittance that can be spent at the canteen); and so on. They tend to be used fairly intelligently by the guards, I’ve found.
We already have what is supposedly a “rehabilitation” phase – it’s called parole. But of course it’s pretty much a joke. Prisons are bound up in ridiculous regulations which prevent a lot of potentially rehabilitative initiatives (I don’t want to write an essay either, but I’m happy to offer examples if asked) and any politician who suggested investing in proper rehabilitation would be hammered by his or her opponents as “soft on criminals”.
It’s like the “all beneficiaries are bludgers” argument. A relatively small percentage are determined leeches; a large number need guidance, motivation and punishment if they don’t comply; and a relatively small percentage are highly motivated. But because talkback and politicians focus on only the former group, policy is written aimed at the worst 20%. Nothing wrong with being tough on them, but it means the remaining 80% don’t get the help they need.
A manservant in prison, you say? If that also permits a maid (especially if she can wear one of those French outfits) I may start putting some cash aside and then ask to be readmitted to Her Majesty’s accommodations
March 7th, 2008 at 8:29 am
No Rebel, you replied to a comment from D4J that had nothing to do with you. You wound D4J up for no reason. You used unnecessarily abusive language to someone who had made a reasonable comment. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t use language like that with your mother, why do you think it is OK to do it out in public?
March 7th, 2008 at 8:46 am
No I’m not meaning the removal of natural light (this is required for good health) I’m talking about the removal of windows that allow prisoners a view of outdoors. Light can equally be achieved through skylights, solar tubes, high placed/narrow windows.
Yes I agree, and would envision for a new prisoner while begining with “no rights” would have basic rights like these (and windows etc) established within a matter of days (1 to 2 weeks maximum). However even that short period time of having those privileges removed from them that it is clear that those things are indeed privileges and are not rights that they can simply expect and can and will be removed if they misbehave while in prison.
The thing to keep in mind is that overseas studies have shown that the first 2 weeks of imprisonment are generally the worse and after that time period the “human spirit” adjusts and simply gets use to the routine etc. This is one of the main arguments for short, harsh sentences for most offences as apart from “protecting the public” long sentences don’t actually achieve a lot more.
I have to disagree Rex, Parole has never really been designed as a rehabilitation phase in fact I would argue the concept of prisoner rehabilitation is actually a fairly modern concept which is one of the reason why we’ve seen our prison system break down. Traditionally the view of prison was “its is a place to send criminals to be punished for their crimes”, society then said “Not only do you have to punish the criminals you have to rehabilitate them too”.
This by itself isn’t a problem however we don’t recognise that fact that punishment and rehabilitation are on opposite sides of the coin and as a result need to be treated as two very distinct and separate phases. Punishment is negative by nature while rehabilitation should be positive process by trying to mash the two together as we currently do it just doesn’t work.
But yes Parole at present is a joke.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:57 am
No Rebel, you replied to a comment from D4J that had nothing to do with you. You wound D4J up for no reason. You used unnecessarily abusive language to someone who had made a reasonable comment. I’m pretty sure you wouldn’t use language like that with your mother, why do you think it is OK to do it out in public?
Bullshit, immediately after my post on Roger Douglas D4J posted these two posts at my blog, obviously in response to my posts here and too pussy to post them here for fear of demerits, D4J threatens me and warns me about being at university:
You are evil satanic crap and do watch your step at Uni with the Mainzeal lads!!
Mainzeal lads are going to give you what you deserve dad4justice@muslim.com satanic creep. You are NO Christian YOU EVIL VIPER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is in response to my first post here: Roger Douglas came to speak at Canterbury today… I think the socialists were a lot more easier on him than they were on Rodney and Richardson ‘cos he was elderly and gentle
Abusive language to someone who made a reasonable comment – are you sure you’re directing that scorn at the right person? If you’re on dick4justice’s side then take the plank out of your own eye first. And as for my mother, where the fuck do you think I learnt to talk like this from. Feel free to stick your dick up for a meathead, freedom of sexual preferences and all that. You as well as Peak Oil are actually the two people in this entire thread who have not participated in any real debate at all, merely being here to point out who’s got what demerits. Stick to the discussions, fool.
March 7th, 2008 at 9:33 am
I will STATE THIS ONCE MORE – stan – I have NOT visited your blog nor have I ever commented on it. PLEASE CAN YOU STOP THIS SMEAR CAMPAIGN NOW . Stop it, as you are pushing beyond the limits of acceptable decency. James Sleep,Brown,hinamanu, Tane, Kiwibloblog have all tried similar slimy low life tactics and I CAN TELL YOU I’m getting rather tired of the filthy smears. Why can’t you sickos fight far? Are you so cowardly that you get a real pleasure out of purposely antagonizing a person?
Look REBEL HEART STOP TELLING FUCKING LIES YOU LIAR !!!!
Now I got work to do and I suggest you get some morals you lying sad individual.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:07 am
Yes… Obviously I’m trying to smear you by making up abusive comments on my own blog in your style of writing for no reason… You are such a noble person Dad4Justice and definitely not the kind of person with an anger problem
But as with before – I’m still waiting for dpf to confirm whether D4J has ever used the IP address 122.57.8.227. If not then I’ll apologise. Until that is clarified then the comments were obviously from you dick4justice.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:03 am
Get a grip Rebel. If someone posted comments on your blog that nobody ever reads, I don’t care. And if you wanted to retaliate for those comments, how about you do it on your blog rather than coming and spreading your filth here. As for D4J, I think DPF cuts him some slack because he clearly has some issues. Kind of the village idiot. If you want to live in that category too, then go right ahead. Otherwise, you could perhaps try to behave like an adult.
March 7th, 2008 at 1:47 pm
Mate sounds like you need a dildo
March 7th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Mate, sounds like you need your mouth washed out with soap, like the rest of the 10 year old boys who have just discovered dirty words.
March 7th, 2008 at 7:51 pm
Sounds like you need to chill out. Wow, this is the internet, let’s all be serious conservative hardass meatheads like you.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:00 pm
By the way I didn’t have time to properly respond to your earlier comment as I was on my work break. The whole purpose of posting dick4J’s comments here was because he was clearly responding to the Roger Douglas comments I made here, but was too pussy to say it here because he would get demerits for it. I’m not gonna suck up to his purpose in posting them at my blog, as he clearly did not want the comments to be seen here, so I thought I’d fuck that up for him. As for just ignoring him – by doing that all you do is encourage him to never change and continue being an abusive psychotic dumb shit who fucks up every single Kiwiblog thread.
I’ll post whatever I want and if it doesn’t meet your mature adult standards I honestly couldn’t give a crap. You sound like you’d be a tight ass prick in real life who has no sense of humour anyway. Like I said, I actually contributed something in this thread – you’ve just been here acting like some self appointed village cop, you just chose to ignore the fact I raised the discussion regarding Roger’s visit to Canterbury, kinda like the conservative dickheads this quote refers to:
I have three things I’d like to say today. First, while you were sleeping last night, 30,000 kids died of starvation or diseases related to malnutrition. Second, most of you don’t give a shit. What’s worse is that you’re more upset with the fact that I said shit than the fact that 30,000 kids died last night.
March 7th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
This Rebel Heart is worth at least 200, 000 votes for National .
March 7th, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Pity those votes get lost again when they find out you’re a member.
March 7th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
You’re a joke RebelHeart. Nobody saw whatever comments you had on your blog, so they did no damage. Why’d you need to bring it here? I frankly don’t give a shit whether you think I’d be fun in real life, unlike you I have friends already. If you want to just incite flame wars and dribble about nothing, why don’t you go to one of the sites that encourage that. What you’re doing here is just creating noise.
On that topic, what was that bullshit about 30,000 kids dying? Who are you quoting, do you care to name it or are you just plagiarising? How is it relevant to anything here other than you being a loser? D4J has been here for some time, as have some others. He doesn’t really cause any harm to anyone, I’m not sure who appointed you to decide that it was time to poke a stick into his cage to see what happens. We already know what happens, and it isn’t particularly interesting.
March 7th, 2008 at 11:22 pm
mate Paul just stick to http://www.internetisseriousbusiness.com, i been ’round longer than you were in the toilet with diarrhea the other day