Which way will the Maori Party go?
March 4th, 2008 at 12:52 pm by David FarrarI find it very amusing to see so many on the left start to hug the Maori Party and claim that it is unthinkable for the Maori Party not to support Labour after the next election. Because some of them used to say the exact opposite.
Jordan Carter blogged in 2005 on how the Maori Party is *not* on the left:
It seems to me that the Maori Party’s ambition is to work back towards an illusory golden past of Maoridom, where individuality is subsumed under collective whanau, hapu and iwi identities. This is highlighted by the constant references to whanau, hapu and iwi in their speeches; by their hostility to the inevitable effects of modernity and the Enlightenment on Maori society; by their desire to see social services dominated by a Maori “Aristocracy” (also known as iwi-based service agencies) rather than the universal services provided by the welfare state.
A more conservative – in fact reactionary – approach to politics is hard to imagine. If a pakeha-based party was out campaigning for the restoration of the great landed estates as there were in England; supporting the putting of economic and social power back in the hands of the elites; undermining the national institutions of common citizenship that bind us together – that party would be laughed out of political existence within minutes.
And it gets better:
That party stands for the antithesis of left wing politics, and of liberal politics. It seeks to turn around Maori society and take it back to some non-existent glorious past, and in so doing create a new privileged elite that can exert the kind of social control of the past. These are not its policies – the policies are more middle of the road than this analysis allows; I am talking about the values and the direction they want to go.
It has nothing to do with the challenges that truly face Maori society in the 21st century. It has no answers to poverty or disadvantage or structural racism or the fight for social and economic equality. It has nothing to do with the left. On that basis, the miracle of Turia’s time in the Labour Party is that it lasted so long; not that she left. The stunning ineptitude of most of our media means that the party has been pained as Labour friendly, when it is the opposite.
And finally:
I know some wet urban liberals who are thinking of voting for the Maori Party. I just hope they realise that if they do, they are voting for a party of the conservative right, which would be much more comfortable in coalition with parties that shared its hostility to the State and to national collective institutions – National and ACT – than it would be dealing with the progressive elements in National and with the bulk of the Labour Party.
Sadly the realities of politics may mean that my party has to deal with these people post election, just as it may mean we have to deal with NZ First, but even NZ First is not as bad (from my point of view) as the Maori Party. At least they fall within a recognisably relevant set of issues – fear of cultural change, populism, economic and social nationalism and so on.
But when the rubber hits the road, in real hard edged policy debates, they always seem to end up siding with the right.
Anyone on the left who supports the party is simply making a National government more likely. I thank the Maori Party leadership for continuing to demonstrate that on a regular basis.
Now I’ve fairly consistently advocated the opposite – that in fact the Maori Party is more left leaning than right leaning. Their voting record backs up my assertion. Over time I believe the Maori Party will support Labour more often than National. But that is not to say they will back Labour every single time.
So having said that, I think anyone who states with certainty what the Maori Party will do post 2008 election is just jerking off. There will be multiple factors in play:
- What policy agreements can be reached
- How much vote each major party got (like NZF and UFNZ last time they may give first option to the largest party)
- Personal relationships between MPs
- What Cabinet positions are offered, if sought
- How many seats the Maori Party wins
- What they think their supporters will want
- What deal they think will be best for the Maori Party and for Maori
John Armstrong in the Herald reports on a faux pax by Pita Sharples though:
Commenting on National Radio on Sunday’s Marae-DigiPoll survey, the Maori Party co-leader initially said the findings made it “easy” for his party to go into some kind of governing arrangement with National after the election.
No sooner had he uttered the word “easy” than he had modified it to the much safer and less definite “easier”.
Labour have used this to attack the Maori Party by saying a vote for them is a vote for National. Not the most sensible tactics I would have thought as on current polls the Maori Party is Labour’s only hope of a 4th term.
Related posts:
- Thanks to Helen, the way to entrench the Maori seats is to have Maori Party go with National
- Maori Party gains support
- Goff instructs Maori Party to support him
- Eye to Eye on Maori Party
March 4th, 2008 at 1:06 pm
You’re quoting Jordan on views he no longer holds:
http://jtc.blogs.com/just_left/2008/01/2008.html
http://jtc.blogs.com/just_left/2007/09/oncb-poll-sept-.html
[DPF: Which was my whole point - that views on the left have changed. Years were spent attacking them as right wing and then when they look to be the only hope of survival for the left, they are clasped to the bosom as true colleagues]
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:11 pm
Will the Maori party work with either of the major parties? Hone Harawira is on the record calling Labour the Devil and National the Devil’s Brother (that might have been the other way around). I guess he must realise though that he’ll have to dance in the pale moonlight if he wants to achieve anything for his people.
What that might be however, I have no idea. I just read Michael King’s Penguin History of New Zealand in which he paints Maori as a very capable and entreprenuerial people. Economic self-determination in a market economy would be the way to go I reckon, but do the Maori Party have the strength to encourage their people to break free from the shackles of welfare? Probably not, as I recall Pita Sharples slagging welfare off at one moment then asking for more money the next.
Anyway, sorry for the stream of consciousness.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Flip. Flop. Who can keep up Tane?
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Well Tane, as none other than Pita Sharples is now on record as saying that he could work with the National Party, not to mention the very public relationship John Key has with many high profile Maori, I think that the Maori Party and National could find they have a lot more common ground than you think.
Personally, I find the current government’s attitude towards Maori just a little patronising, espcailly in view of recent statements by the Prime Minister’s office (Ngati Whatua women do not Hongi indeed!)
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Hater or wrecker Tane, pay your money, take your choice.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:26 pm
I agree with most of DPF’s post, but would also point out that not *all* of the left fall into what he criticises. There are a few lefties around that have offered some consistent and sober reflections on the Maori Party.
I hope this isn’t link-whoring, but again I’d just make available the link for my own analysis on the relationship between the Maori Party and the National Party, entitled “Why the Maori and National parties fit together”:
http://liberation.typepad.com/liberation/2008/02/why-the-maori-a.html
I argue that while I still doubt that the Maori Party will go into a coalition with National, or that they will sign up to a lesser minimal agreement with them, there’s still a very good possibility that the two parties could come to an agreement. This is based upon the fact that there’s actually a lot of common ground between the two parties, and National can offer the Maori Party some things that Labour can’t. I’d be interested to read any disagreement or feedback on my analysis.
There should be no doubt that the Maori Party is basically a centrist one with leftish and rightish factions and tendencies. Any lefties that now paint the Maori Party as leftwing or Labour-oriented are basically involved in either wishful thinking, stupidity, or futilely attempting to *push* the Maori Party to the left.
Bryce
[DPF: I tend to use the term "left" far too broadly - what I really mean is the party partisan left, rather than the wider left.]
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Well, you’re making the dubious assumption that politics is full of rational people acting in their own best interest. How soon we forget the running buffet of dead rats that had to be swallowed before Clark and Jim Anderton could stand on the same stage; and it seems to me that Shane Jones is the acceptable ‘brown-neck’ voice of a visceral hatred many in Labour feel for the Maori Party, Tariana Turia in particular. Remember: When you’ve turned politics into a religion, the apostate is always going to be hated more than the infidel.
I know the pale pink commentariat doesn’t really get this, but it seems to me that the Maori Party are the expression of a deep discontent with — and suspicion of — both National and Labour. Far from being the single issue party commentators had it pegged down as, the MP seem disturbingly pragmatic. Whoever forms the next government, it seems to me that Sharples in particular is more interested in getting results for their constituents than ideological purity. I certainly don’t think they’re going to be Labour’s house blacks, just because the likes of Jordan Carter and John Armstrong think that’s the natural order of things.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
[DPF: Which was my whole point - that views on the left have changed. Years were spent attacking them as right wing and then when they look to be the only hope of survival for the left, they are clasped to the bosom as true colleagues]
I don’t think there’s ever been a ‘left’ position on the Maori Party. Jordan had his view, which he’s since revised, but that doesn’t demonstrate what you’re suggesting or suggest any uniformity of opinion on the left.
Personally I’ve always considered the Maori Party to have a naturally left-leaning constituency, but with no clear or consistent ideology among its leadership. I think that’s probably still the case.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
I agree with Craig R and have posted today and yesterday that IMHO the MP will be more interested in delivering results to their people than who they line up with particularly if their polling show a near to 50/50 situation with their voters. That means they are going to piss off 50% anyway so being part of ruling coalition beats being part of nonruling coalition.
If it all works out 1st term then theres the chance of a Cabinet seat Maori affairs in the 2nd term. There have been stranger bedfellows than these 2 in the past and on issues it seems the MP and the Nats are not poles apart on policy.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 1:46 pm
I work with a number of iwi (won’t go into the relationship, the why or the how), and the people I meet are interested in hand-ups not hand-outs, if you will excuse the cliched term. I think the comments by Bryce Edwards and Craig R both have some merit. The Maori Party is more centrist with “wings”, and it is also clearly NOT Labour OR National.
That said, there are sentiments amongst many Maori that are more comfortable with National rather than Labour.
It is going to be an interesting year! (understatement?)
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Jordan Carter seems to have stopped blogging – which makes sense, because he never had anything useful or insightful to say anyway.
Does he have a mind?
Does he even exist?
If he does exist as a person, can be be said ever to have existed as a blogger given that he just channelled the thoughts of others?
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 2:12 pm
The Maori party has a huge mendicant base.
Mendicants vote Labour.
Foolish Nats.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
“Personally I’ve always considered the Maori Party to have a naturally left-leaning constituency, but with no clear or consistent ideology among its leadership. I think that’s probably still the case.”
Yeah – For Sixty years the Ratana church was Labour aligned, and its representatives consistently won all the Maori seats. This changed in 1996 when NZ first won all the Maori seats, only to lose them all after doing a deal with National (polls showed that Maori NZ1 voters overwhelmingly wanted NZ1 to go with labour, as Winston had promised he would). Now we have a Maori Party that fairly consistently votes with the greens in parliament (the most left-wing party in government). Yet People are still trying to say that the Maori party isn’t center left, but without a shred of evidence.
Whether the Maori Party will go with Labour or National in 08 depends on whether the center left (Maori, Jim’s Progressives, Greens, Labour) can get over half of the MPs – if so National will have a hard job convincing the Greens and the Maori Party (who may well bargain as a block) that they can offer them a better deal than labour can (who they both have far more policy and voting in common with). On the other hand if the center right block wins a small and therefore unstable majority (National will then be looking for more support to sure up its vote), the Maori party may look to gain a confidence and supply arrangement (not a formal coalition) with National to have some influence in government.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Alces
You may well be right but I couldnt possibly comment However I believe they may hold the key (pun not intended) to who governs this country not just for the next 3 years but if the Maori seats are retained then for some decades to come.
Given the demographics they could be the King/Queen makers for the rest of the 21st Century.
So if thats the case we might as well get over it and get on and for those of us on the right look to how we can work with not against them for a win/win outcome.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
uh george he blogged on the 29th of Feb. Also the original above posts were very interesting, too bad he hasn’t written one that long in a while…
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
How to put this politely… As Jordan Carter is now the Labour candidate for Hunua (or seeking the nomination anyway), I suspect he wouldn’t want any, shall we say, injudicious blog posts coming back to haunt him.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
Poor Jordan – eviscerated by his brethren.
Does The Standard and KBB really equal JTC?
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
I know where I want the Maori party to go, however the demerit board and a 2 month holiday restrict my thoughts.
Vote:What are the Maori Party doing about CHILD ABUSE ?
March 4th, 2008 at 3:37 pm
Personally I think National needs to really focus on the desire we’re seeing in the poll results that most New Zealander’s want to be free from a Labour led Government. Part of this has to be focusing on comments like Sharples (and other third parties) have made and pointing out that Labour has only been able to continue their Governance through the direct support from these third parties and if people want that change then the only way to guarantee is by giving both ticks to National.
I also wonder if any polling has been done around what sort of support a party would see if they campaigned on a policy of holding a binding referendum on the subject continuing with MMP or not.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
Continuing with MMP makes as much sense as continuing with a rugby world cup coach who failed ? Doh kiwi’s. My brain hurts.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 3:47 pm
Polls should be held just prior to or just after the election to see which major party a majority of voters would prefer to form the next Government. It is technically possible for every minor party to go along with the “will of its voters” and yet still form the less popular Government – for instance, if the Maori Party justifies supporting Labour because a 2/3 majority of its supporter preferred that, yet that 1/3 would have given National a majority, that result is undesirable.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
National should be sitting down and deciding now what and how far they go when it comes to a bargin with the Maori party. Because you can be sure the Maori party will come calling when National hold most of the cards. The Maori party may be in the position to be king maker so National should ready themselves to come to the table, they should know what they are willing to offer before they put their heads on the block. Only when both partys know where each other stands then progress will follow.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Craig Ranapia says:
That was certainly the position of the majority of Maori supporters of NZ First when it swept the Maori seats, as mentioned by roger above. However I disagree with his analysis that they stopped supporting the party solely because Winston chose coalition with National and not Labour. Certainly most weren’t happy, but the feedback I got at the time was that they were prepared to give him time to deliver on the promise regardless of who he’d done a deal with. Indeed some suspected that he may have swallowed that particular rat (to borrow Craig’s analogy) because National were prepared to divest more Maori policy power than were Labour, because National had no hope of retaining the Maori seats on its own.
When it became obvious that the NZF members of that government were interested more in their shopping trips to Paris and figuring which taxpayer funded Ministerial home they’d use for their honeymoon, Maori realised they’d been had. Since then a vast block of very pragmatic results-driven Maori voters have been looking for a home. They seem to have found it.
That Jordan could ever have been silly enough to utter an opinion that portrayed the Maori Party as having a “desire to see social services dominated by a Maori ‘Aristocracy’” shows just how little he understands of what motivates the majority of politically aware Maori. They’re tired of the “Maori Aristocracy” of the Stephen O’Regans and Graham Latimers and their bag carriers getting the benefits of settlements while waiting for some to trickle down. The Maori Party would not be the force it is today if it hadn’t recognised that fact and created its policies accordingly.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
If National wins the Gold and Labour and the Minor Parties form a Govt …. against the elec torate wishes………thats when MMP will Fail .
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
I like MMP
And the Emperor Ming.
Obviously.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 5:30 pm
Someone needs to bring Maori up to speed on what has really hurt them most. We need a modern-day Apirana Ngata. Someone needs to have the guts to point out that Maori who move to Aussie are a success. Someone needs to have the guts to point out that Maori families used to stick together and look out for each other before the DPB. Someone needs to have the guts to point out that all cultures are not equal, and that the difference can be seen in outcomes, all over the world. Alan Duff? John Tamihere? Pita Sharples? And no-one with the guts to call it like it is, will be found on the Left of politics in NZ.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
The maori part is a conservative party. Maori are always on about culture and their heritage an the importance of the marae and the place of komatua, etc, etc. And the most conservative aspect is the treaty.
National are consrvative also.
Its a no brainer – they will very happily get tiogether and when they do it will be something like true love.
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
We should do a quick kiwiblog poll. Is there any conservative voters opposed to a National/Maori Party government?
This doesn’t mean you have to agree with everything either party does, but that in principle they believe in the same vision and have similar positive aspirations for NZ.
I’m in favour!
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
“..If National wins the Gold and Labour and the Minor Parties form a Govt …. against the elec torate wishes………thats when MMP will Fail ..”
no it won’t trendy steve..
it will represent the wishes of the largest number of new zealanders..
what’s ‘undemocratic’ about that..?
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:March 4th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
The idea of the Maori Party holding the balance of power (more especially via overhang) will drive many centrist votes into the arms of the larger main party to prevent this.
Which means any Labour recovery to contest this election will ultimately hit this wall in the home straight and allow National to ease away to victory anyway.
Vote:March 5th, 2008 at 2:44 am
Too funny, even Tane can’t keep up with Jordans spin… thanks for making it clear Tane you plonker.
Jordan always throws his toys out of the cot when things don’t go his way. He expected the MP to be lapdogs for the LP and when they rejected much of the Labur knows best ideology just a little bit, Jordan decided that they were the enemy.
Hardly the behaviour of a wannabe MP. I hope the other candidates give him shit over it. If (god forbid) he got elected will he treat his constituents and others the same if they disagree with him?
Vote:March 5th, 2008 at 7:43 am
key was just on good morning..
his performance was cringe-inducing awful..
and no.!.he had no answer to the question/conundrum of expecting support from a (maori) party that he/national has policies to destroy….
and he confirmed..that yes..!
he/national would allow the airport to be flogged off..
cullen was on before him…
and ..in contrast to an evasive/asset-flogging-pimp performance from key..
(which he worsened by lurching into banker-speak..
he went ‘micro’..whereas cullen went ‘macro’..)
cullen looked/acted ‘totally on top of his game’..
and..more importantly..
confirmed a resolute turning of the back by labour on their bad old asset-selling days..
..and in doing so..he reads he mood of the nation accurately..
that ‘watchdog of/for the people’ is a role that suits cullen..
and is what people want..
and as the twin tsunamis of environmental backlash..and economic meltdown..hit.
they will only confirm cullen as the man for the times/circumstances..
(whereas keys’ ‘i used to be an investment banker’..’selling point’..
..seems so last millenium..eh..?)
and cullen shows a (much-needed) clear ‘difference’ between labour and national..
and..as in his (dismal) performance in parliament yesterday..
key confirms that when the spotlight/heat falls on him..
he crumbles/melts..
and at labour hq..they’ll be doing handstands..
key has just reminded the nation..that yes..!
..they will continue their historical pattern of flogging off the family silver..
to the highest bidder..
and at natty-hq..?
they should be very very worried..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:March 5th, 2008 at 8:06 am
Stoned this early in the morning philu?
Vote:March 5th, 2008 at 8:08 am
how about that ‘message’ there..eh paul..?
no answers from you..obviously/as usual..
‘fool..!’
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote:March 5th, 2008 at 9:09 am
Sorry phil, it’s far too hard to read your comments, so no way I can respond to them. Something about a conspiracy theory and how you like Cullen more than Key. Which isn’t news, and isn’t really something I can respond to because it’s an opinion to which you are entitled. The polls suggest that much of NZ don’t agree with you, but hey, if you want to have stupid opinions you can.
Vote:March 5th, 2008 at 11:05 am
go to the tvnz website..and watch his appearance on telly this morning..
and then ponder how that will look..come campaign/debate time…
the way things are going..
kry will be shown as wearing no clothes..
phil(whoar.co.nz)
Vote: