No Right Turn on Labour
Idiot/Savant at No Right Turn is unimpressed with Labour’s plan to use the resources of the state to help them gain re-election:
Government advertising is supposed to inform people about government policy and how to access government services. It is not supposed to be used to support the government-of-the-day’s bid for re-election. By doing this Labour isn’t just displaying its cynicism, its moral bankruptcy, and its inability to distinguish between the party and the state (a disease more commonly known in one-party states like China; maybe it’s infectious?); they are also undermining the entire concept of government publicity, and in doing so, directly harming the interests of every New Zealander who may need to access government services.
Can’t add much to that. But wait we can:
But underlying it is the same basic contempt for the law we see in the US political system, the same desire to win at any cost no matter what it does to our democracy. And just by proposing it, they’re encouraging this attitude, and further undermining the very necessary controls we have on party election spending.
How long until we are all told it is just a misunderstanding?
April 14th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
“But underlying it is the same basic contempt for the law we see in the US political system,”
Hell, the Labour Party are showing contempt for the NZ population and the electoral system, but they don’t have to worry about the law. They change that to suit themselves whenever the situation requires. …and what they’ve done in NZ would probably never stand up to scrutiny in the US. The opposition, whichever party it might be at the time, would be down on them like a tonne of bricks.
April 14th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
I’ve already been told its all just a misunderstanding, an idea pitched by one enthusiastic delegate.
No information was given on how the idea was received, or whether it was immediately squashed by Mike Williams (who chaired the session).
April 14th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Having signed an FTA with Communist China the Socialists are now setting out to immitate that countries government in every way possible.
April 14th, 2008 at 2:46 pm
Good post I/S. I am glad to see the condemnation of this behavior echo across the political spectrum.
April 14th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
From the Herald website:
“In a statement, the Prime Minister’s spokeswoman said Helen Clark had asked for an explanation from those who attended various conference sessions following the Herald’s story this morning.
The spokeswoman said: “She has been advised that the suggestion about using material from government departments was raised from the floor by a delegate.
“She has since instructed that such material is not to be handed out by canvassers, or for campaigning.
“However electorate offices serving MPs across all parties can continue to have the material on display as part of the interface between constituents and government agencies.”"
Bloody typical. There is only one reason why this isn’t going to happen. Well, two actually. First, it contravenes their own law, and second, someone couldn’t keep their trap shut, and the media found out. Clark’s response (“she has since instructed…”) makes it blatantly obvious that this is EXACTLY what Labour planned to do. Big ups to Idiot/Savant for having the honesty to describe Labour as morally bankrupt ( a term I used in my own piece) – he’s right on the money!
April 14th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
If only any of this was true then it might be interesting, however as it’s just paranoid babbling it’s far from interesting and even less true.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:09 pm
When the public see the size of Labour’s miserable tax-cuts and realise they could easily have afforded to make those back in 2000 and multiply that by the years Labour has been in office, – people will calculate just how much money this Labour Government has cost middle NZ. People on the 39c bracket have already made that calculation and have been voting accordingly since 2005.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:12 pm
Someone is lying here.
The Herald talks about “confidential strategy notes” – ie, documents.
The Prime Minister’s Office says it was a “suggestion … raised from the floor by a delegate” – ie, a verbal contribution from one person.
Who to believe?
April 14th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Again if only that was true Tim,
I am on the top bracket and there is no way I’d vote right – now there’s a surprise to the punters out there.
Tim if Labour’s tax cuts are miserable, then Nationals will just be irresponsible inflationary tactics to bribe the public. Borrowing to give people money – yeah that’s really intelligent stuff – only works on those whom think they are owed something.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Paul seeing you are so keen to pay tax how about I send you my tax number and you can pay my tax fro me Only fair seeing you support the HTP High Tax Party
April 14th, 2008 at 3:19 pm
Paul – if it wasn’t true, why would Helen Clark’s spokeswoman be saying “She has since instructed that such material is not to be handed out by canvassers, or for campaigning.” Labour has been caught out trying to rort the system. Idiot/Savant, no friend of the right has called them on it. Labour really is, to quote I/S “morally bankrupt”. And this will be ruthlessly exposed next Monday – trust me!
April 14th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
Borrowing to give people money – yeah that’s really intelligent stuff – only works on those whom think they are owed something.
Um, Paul, are you fighting for Most Misinformed Voter 2008? Your beloved Cullen has admitted himself in the House that he will be increasing our national debt in order to pay for suitable tax cuts. Clark herself has claimed that an increase in debt for tax cuts is a recipe for disaster. And that is exactly what Cullen is proposing to do.
And so the ‘intelligent stuff’ (dripped in sarcasm from the left) actually becomes ‘intelligent stuff’ (pronounced with an air of dignity). Your view on what is good and what is not is actually based on what party it comes from.
Take this whole “Key the Gambler” thing – in 2005 Clark attacked the media and National for personal attacks in order to score political points. And yet, in 2008, when 4 Labour MPs sing a very juvenile song about Key (and let’s face it, it’s not even all that clever) it’s a real hoot.
I mean, the hypocrisy is sickening. No, its pitiful.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
” It is not supposed to be used to support the government-of-the-day’s bid for re-election”
But it also supports the opposition’s bid for election. In fact the rules favor National, as they will receive more campaign money than labour under this legislation.
“By doing this Labour isn’t just displaying its cynicism, its moral bankruptcy, and its inability to distinguish between the party and the state”
So re-instating the pre-2005 status-quo, which existed throughout the 1990s under National is cynical and morally bankrupt? Fascinating.
[DPF: You have no idea what you are talking about. This is about Government spending, not parliamentary spending. Don't you read the newspapers?]
April 14th, 2008 at 3:50 pm
.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:57 pm
Sorry – I posted twice. That was wierd.
April 14th, 2008 at 3:59 pm
Tim if Labour’s tax cuts are miserable, then Nationals will just be irresponsible inflationary tactics to bribe the public. Borrowing to give people money – yeah that’s really intelligent stuff – only works on those whom think they are owed something.
Paul, are you being serious here or are you only joking? Just checking cause when someone rips you a new one I’d hate to then read a comment form you going “Hey lighten up, it was only a joke….”
April 14th, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Clearly I/S has recieved his instructions… start criticising now in the hope that his blog has some faint shred of credibility when November comes and Gotterdamerung for Socialism arrives. Slim hope, I/S, you will be out on the street in the unemployment lines with all the other Clarkists.
April 14th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
Oh please, Paul who do you think you are fucking fooling, “then Nationals will just be irresponsible inflationary tactics to bribe the public”. Pray tell Paul what the fuck was WFF, welfare for people earning way over $100,000 a year. Sounds like a bribe to me, take off those rose coloured classes you hypocritical fool.
April 14th, 2008 at 4:16 pm
gd
“Paul seeing you are so keen to pay tax how about I send you my tax number and you can pay my tax fro me Only fair seeing you support the HTP High Tax Party”
Mouth breather.
April 14th, 2008 at 4:19 pm
paul is a labour mp?
April 14th, 2008 at 4:25 pm
And Labour has the unmitigated gall to call John Key “slippery”? To promote and pass self serving legislation speaks of arrogance, and then to outline how they will rort that legislation speaks of stupidity, either in themselves, or assumed of others.
April 14th, 2008 at 4:32 pm
Maybe someone who was there can tell us if the “song” Ruth Dyson Maryan Street and others sang at the conference was any good ??
Based on what I heard on the radio it was a big stretch of musical credibility to determine a tune… but according to the Herald it was to the tune of “The Gambler” I wonder if they paid the appropriate rights to use the tune ?? or this another example of Labour Good National Bad ??
April 14th, 2008 at 4:37 pm
pushmepullu,
sadly for Idiot to be out of a job, he would first have to get one. yep he relies on his partner (though i think she is a student, not 100%) and probably the rest of us, becuase he has not yet found a job he finds ‘worthy’ of his time, becuase the people or the subject matter are not interesting enough to make him deign to cut his hair, stop wearing lefty propganda du jour tshirts and contribute something more than the tripe his blog usually puts out.
and its not like he is not capable of working, nothing wrong with him physically or mentally other than being overly left wing.
April 14th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Rog Always good to know when you hit the bulls eyes
April 14th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Roger has no idea what he is talking about. This is about Government spending, not parliamentary spending. Doesn’t he read the newspapers?
Grendel: That is getting too personal, please refrain.
April 14th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Hi again Paul,
A little while ago you slipped this little one liner into a post of yours.
You wrote “National is about to borrow to pay for tax cuts…”.
Where did you get this information?
Could you cite your sources to show that this assertion is true please?
April 14th, 2008 at 5:45 pm
“…Mouth breather.”
Kiwiblog demerits policy; “20 points – abusive language”
Cruising for more demerits there philip john mason?
April 14th, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Hey Col, forget it mate.
Paul’s posted around fifty comments on kiwiblog today, all of them entirely devoid of intelligent thought.
He simply hasn’t got the foggiest idea what he’s talking about. It looks a little bit like he is all fired up after his awesome weekend congress.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:05 pm
I’d be keen to see a copy of the confidential notes Audrey wrote about. If they exist they put the lie to Helen’s comment about a delegate. If Audrey has them she should produce them asap.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:06 pm
helmet, once again engaging in the personal rather than anything to do with the posts.
His awesome weekend congress, I wouldn’t call 18 guys running around a football field a congress, but it was a great win over Varsity- thanks for the plug.
Please do enlighten us with your opinion once in a while, I’m sure there are some here more interested in the topics at hand than your accounting of my posts.
You say devoid of intelligent thought, I say potato – lets call the whole thing off. BTW while you are playing Lord God Almighty, you thoughts on the wonderful and illustrious Dad4, he’s a real champion of the right that one. But while you have the LGA hat on and know everything get your facts right NOB – I don’t support Labour haven’t since throwing out Piggy.
colinm, no I can’t cite this one, although I do remember seeing John Keys lips utter the words that “borrowing for tax cuts is a possibility”, I can only go on what the Good Lord says (although it changes so much, I’d really don’t know what he’s saying these days). Besides without cutting back on govt services how else is he going to fund these tax cuts – which are inflationary.
SSB, I earn over the $100K and don’t collect any form of WFF or welfare, so get the facts right.
gd so you’re not willing to pay your tax, shame, I hear they have putting greens in prisons up north.
mention tax and the poor downtroden right whom are so clearly over taxed and under loved and appreciated get a little steamy. So a collective hug to you all, the realignment on SH1 just south of Timaru thanks you too, as does the Primary School that my boy is about to attend and ….
April 14th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
please ignore this comment. I had some moderation problems.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
That’s a lot of typing to say absolutely nothing relevant Paul.
Some nice bragging, but sadly no substance.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Hey Paul of no substance, Helen just said that you’re the ” not so bright idea.”
April 14th, 2008 at 6:29 pm
It’s OK everybody, the crisis is over, dear leader has just been on Labour party television and told us all that she and she alone has decided to throw this “not so bright idea” out of the ninth floor window.
As befitting a state controlled TV station Labour party TV have told us that the episode is now closed and thanks to the great efforts of dear leader the voting public can lay safe in their beds at night, they stopped short of saying it “New Zealanders have moved on”
Where would we be without the Espiners of this world to remind us how lucky we are to have such a great leader.
April 14th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
“Hey Paul of no substance, Helen just said that you’re the ” not so bright idea.”
Anyone who kwotes kommandant klark must be some kinda bra-burning thong-wearing bolshie feminazi socialist…
April 14th, 2008 at 7:55 pm
Paul: “the realignment on SH1 just south of Timaru thanks you too, as does the Primary School that my boy is about to attend and ….”
Talking of places south of Timaru and young schoolchildren, how is David Benson-Pope these days?
April 14th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Personally I believe it was a suggestion from the floor by a delegate, rather than a designed plan. I also believe that Clark had no idea about it.
The fact however that Clark said on TVNZ’s Breakfast programme…
“Things that government departments put out, are not – underline not – campaign material,” [before adjusting the spin (no doubt after receiving advice) on NewstalkZB];
and that Mike Williams said it was “a bloody good idea,” when the delegate first raised it…
both nicely illustrate the underlying mindset at the most senior levels.
The good thing is that this is their last hurrah. First we had the balloons and now this, in quick succession. They won’t get a third chance because when the next Liabore EFA-special hits the headlines, the average voter will start to smell the rat that we on this blog have always known about, thanks to DPF’s prescient alert way back when the EFA was first mooted. The best news is that Liarbore can’t avoid it, it’s utterly inescapable, because they have to use the provisions (possibly for survival reasons cause no-one else will give them any cash) and the largest daily in NZ is just waiting for the smallest slip, of which this Act allows myriad opportunity.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:37 pm
So Helmet did nothing today excerpt chase me around the site (but in true contradictory manner ask for me to say something), and that sad little F***er Dad was like a little school boy who thinks he’s tough and bleating on from behind the bullies back (jumping up and down because he’s too small to be noticed – tosser). Dad it isn’t cool or tough to stand behind the bully yelling “yeah me too”
Duxton (we shall call the night shift) pipes in with something possibly alluding to DBP’s teaching days – yeah thats funny, I’m pissing myself with laughter – AT YOU!
Reid I disagree with you, but thanks at least for debating the issues – a breath of fresh air.
Last Hurrah, I wouldn’t count on it, anything is possible in politics Dunne and Peters are testament to that (they should have been gone long ago but everyone keeps getting into bed with these tossers – go figure).
April 14th, 2008 at 8:41 pm
Reid apart from the silly school yard name calling – please how old are we here, the EFA isn’t an issue.
Free speech and democracy aren’t dead – despite what the learned Boscawen and DPF believe. More people took time out to go to the latest Bats concert in Dunedin (pop 100,000) than bothered to turn up to the Auckland (pop 1.25million) march of freedom.
Either the EFA is important, in which case the Bats are about to be bigger than Brittany Spears again, or the EFA is only of concern to the half dozen or so on the right concerned with this and the Bats are only bigger than this issue?
April 14th, 2008 at 8:48 pm
My god what a crisis. Labour electorate offices will be giving out … wait for it … public service material on what rights and benefits are available to citizens. Quelle horreur. Sorry guys but this is an absolute no brainer. Labour electorate offices and MPs have done this ever since the party was formed. I can recall David Lange complaining because Social Welfare hid the publications saying what benefit citizens were entitled to. Sorry but this is not a story. The Public Service material will be put through the wringer to make sure that it is neutral in case the Auditor General looks at it. Distributing information should in no way be regarded as some sort of rort.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
DPF can you put this Paul to the vote and if majority say ban him – then ban him, as clearly he is mentally stressed and very unstable.
April 14th, 2008 at 8:52 pm
Paul I thought some dinner might have kicked your brain into activity.
Sadly, it hasn’t. Nothing to kick perhaps?
April 14th, 2008 at 8:56 pm
“I am on the top bracket and there is no way I’d vote right – now there’s a surprise to the punters out there.”
“SSB, I earn over the $100K”
Paul, top tax rate doesn’t kick in at $100k, very few teachers have any idea when it does kick in, very few employed teachers can post as many comments during term and school time as you.
Pure tax rate envy.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Helmet are you pathological or just incapable of engaging in any form of debate, nice to see your alter ego got in first this time.
I can see you both in leotards in the ring – tag team insults. very apt though all flash and all acting – no substance at all. Is if Flunk Hogan and Andrea The Little.
So I stay on task and you two school girls get all hot under the kilt/leotard and have to pipe up.
Dad are you suggesting you suppress free speech a little contradictory don’t you think, still right up your alley. Help help I’m being repressed. Just like those wimps who got all flustered when I dared to question ACT – suppress free speech – nice look on the right.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:02 pm
“Dad are you suggesting you suppress free speech”
Look you weird creep you are a fucking disgrace to every kiwi male in the world !!!
Edit – I expect robinsod who is capills_enema to be next to throw the insane
crap.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:03 pm
“DPF can you put this Paul to the vote and if majority say ban him – then ban him,”
Oops, the Stasi’s here.
Still, daddy knows best i guess.
Edit: You wrote your ‘edit’ after you’d seen my comment, you duplicitous swine! Ha! Dis game funny.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:05 pm
The problem is, I’m sure the Tories would do exactly the same thing given the chance.
Labour = National.
Helmet, just because D4J supports ACT doesn’t mean ACT supports D4J.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
MikeE, who said I support ACT? Is your brain dancing with the stars?
April 14th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
Paul I thought I made myself clear. I’m not trying to debate with you. I’m pointing out that in over fifty posts on kiwiblog today, you’re yet to say something intelligent.
I’m not overly hopeful that the pattern is likely to change if I start debating you. I enjoy intelligent degate, not the nonsensical ideologically driven egotistical drivel that you’re pushing today.
Say something smart and then maybe we can talk.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
1984, sorry you are stuck in time, if you dare to be clever and comment (well lets face it try to be a smart arse) at least try to be informed. I own my own design consultancy and do very nicely thanks. I gave up teaching years ago when National devalued the profession so much it was turning into a political joke (6 years with no operational budget increase under the last nat govt).
The only envy going on here sunshine is of the Aston Martin I know I can’t afford (still there’s the promise of golden weather under Keys tax haven).
April 14th, 2008 at 9:12 pm
“you’re yet to say something intelligent” well that’s debateable
“’m not trying to debate with you” Indeed you aren’t trying to do anything but jibe at me – political discourse ever heard of it, not with me – with anyone.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
“Look you weird creep you are a fucking disgrace to every kiwi male in the world !!!”
coming from you sunshine I take that as a compliment.
Thoughts on the topic would be?????
April 14th, 2008 at 9:20 pm
Finally you get it Paul. I’m pointing out how stupid your comments are today, that’s all.
Say something intelligent and then maybe we can talk. Please. Surprise us.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:25 pm
Paul — i suspect you may be taking your life in your hands, divulging personal information to this scary bunch of authoritarian crypto-socialist woofters. You may think you’ve only told them a couple of things about yourself, but I reckon these guys have –
(a) the requisite depth of ill-feeling
(b) a fast(ish) internet connection, and
(c) enough time on their hands
– to track you down and make you pay for trying to engage them in rational debate, in such infuriating way, like wot you done.
April 14th, 2008 at 9:32 pm
“Say something intelligent”
Helmet if you don’t like what I say, that may not necessarily mean that it’s unintelligent, I’ve yet to see the plaque that installs you with the position of purveyor of superior political discourse.
Was this a good days work for you following me all over the place
Capil ???
April 14th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
D4J – Helmet did…
April 14th, 2008 at 10:16 pm
C’mon Paul. A dozen short comments highlighting your dull posts didn’t take all that long.
Not nearly as long as it would to say, write fifty-something long-winded paragraphs of pseudo intellectual bullshit.
It’s not because I don’t like what you’re saying Paul. I respect a well reasoned argument, and if you bring one we can talk. But today you’ve just posted utter rubbish.
April 15th, 2008 at 1:25 am
All cat fights aside…….. Mike Williams’ problems are purely statistical. Whether Labour policy goes through is summed up by the equation: votes gained by the extra pamphlets – votes lost on moral grounds must be > 0. He got his numbers mixed up! Helen would firmly support this scheme if the equation was positive!
April 15th, 2008 at 1:31 am
Paul mentioned:
To balance this, I’m not in the top tax bracket and there is no way I’d vote left. Not sure if that is a surprise to any punters. I don’t expect to be able to pay less tax than I do today – however I certainly don’t want anyone to tell me that I’m earning ‘enough’, or that no matter how hard or smart I work that I do not deserve a cent more than the most unproductive person in a similar role. That idea gives me the creeps.
Back to the topic of this thread, it should be a wake-up call to those who live in a dreamland where a Labour government can do no wrong. They are as crooked as any politicians. I’m not going to say that National are squeaky-clean but the argument that Labour are honest is fallacious.
April 15th, 2008 at 4:52 am
Paul: the EFA isn’t an issue
Again, do you think it is reasonable for the government of the day to take public funds, use it for electioneering and not have it count against their electoral return?
If you truely and honestly believe in democracy, as you have said you do, then you would think it to be unreasonable. So with all respect, Reid is on the money. What the government – the Labour Party of New Zealand – is attempting to do is a terribad rort of our electoral system, a definitive mean to escape detection and run a massive parallel campaign.
That type of thing is not on. Thankfully at least one lefty, I/S, has the integrity to call them on it.
April 15th, 2008 at 7:27 am
Well said Pascal. Labour has used a two-pronged approach to electoral funding. First up, pass a law limiting the amount that parties and third parties can spend to get their message across. Secondly, take advantage of your control of the public purse to give you a clear advantage over those parties who are limited by their spending caps. Pretty simple really.
The worrying bit is that the government has been blinded by its own lust for power. Opposition politicians called them on their plans, most notably Bill English and Christopher Finlayson, but they couldn’t see that they were doing anything wrong. The print media, especially the NZ Herald called them on it. The public called them on it. And now even their own are so sickened by what Labour is up to, they’re calling them on it. Yet still Clark, Williams & co just don’t get it.
April 15th, 2008 at 7:31 am
I wonder when I/S will allow comments again? So many of his posts over the past year have been so open to ridicule and yet we haven’t had a chance to pull him back into line.
April 15th, 2008 at 7:38 am
The public of New Zealand are that moronic they have allowed corruption to fester to the point where they have become immune to the lack of accountability by elected scum who manipulate a dysfunctional system. NZ is fast becoming a cess pit of lies and failures and this can be attributed to the shameful tactics of a disturbed and evil Prime Minister.This insane women, in my eyes, is guilty of both criminal negligence and malfeasance and should be held in a prison, as she is responsible for the never ending rot. She is a disgusting role model.
April 15th, 2008 at 8:38 am
d4j said..
“..then ban him, as clearly he is mentally stressed and very unstable..”
(heh..!..)
phil(whoar.co.nz)
April 15th, 2008 at 8:40 am
So let’s see here. First up, for the Left, we had Paul saying the story was totally untrue. Later in the day he engaged in mindless, pontificating bluster, followed by abuse. Then we had Roger trying to divert things off topic, because he knew it was a hot issue, but didn’t understand the issue. Then we had MickySavage saying that it was a good idea to hand out material, because citizens need to know about services on offer.
Yet they all seem to have gone very quiet indeed, since the PM came out and admitted that the story was true (sorry, Paul); that Mike Williams had accepted the suggestion as a “good idea” (Sorry I/S); and that it was totally inappropriate for canvassers to use public service material for campaigning purposes (Sorry MickySavage).
Three of them trying to defend the indefensible, and get pinged by their own party leader. What a delicious day in politics.
April 15th, 2008 at 8:53 am
Poor old Mike Williams thought patterns are described by Helengrad as “not a bright idea.”
Every lefty turnip sucker on this thread should undergo intensive correction therapy’s or just ban them for time wasting because they’re just pathetic jokes .Then we can talk sense without the motley crew of weirdo lefty foaming geeks and brainwashed corrupt liarbour smug rats.
April 15th, 2008 at 9:07 am
“Three of them trying to defend the indefensible, and get pinged by their own party leader. What a delicious day in politics.”
Hey Insolent, Enjoy! John Key can’t walk out the front door without tripping up, so it won’t be long before we lefties get a chance to have a good laugh at your expense.
April 15th, 2008 at 9:16 am
jafapete: John Key can’t walk out the front door without tripping up, so it won’t be long before we lefties get a chance to have a good laugh at your expense
You would look a lot more credible if you did not equate what Labour is doing with the simple gaffes of a politician. You laugh when our government is twisting elections? Are you that banal?
April 15th, 2008 at 9:40 am
I laugh because our government is not trying to twist elections, and your frantic efforts to make it seem so are genuinely amusing.
Like DPF and the kiwiblog right’s attempts last week to engineer a “constitutional crisis” long after the serious new media had stopped reporting what was no more than an embarrassing episode for the government. The more hyperbole from you, the more pathetic and banal YOU look.
Edit: And if you really want “banal”, try the “Watch the Minister Sing” thread. Positively dripping with banality.
April 15th, 2008 at 9:49 am
Jafa
Your government is trying to twist elections but if we leave that aside for one minute do you not agree that already this is turning into the nastiest election campaign in memory.
The left seem so hate filled and desperate, Cullen’s recent comments and the uncalled for personal attacks (slippery John etc) are so unnecessary, why is it that the left are acting this way?
April 15th, 2008 at 9:52 am
So jafapete, what do you call it when the government uses public service material as electioneering to avoid having it count against their electoral return? Not trying to twist elections?
Luckily the prime minister intervened, but would that happened if they had not been caught out by the Herald? I sincerely doubt it. And I suspect this will continue, irrespective of what the prime minister has said.
April 15th, 2008 at 10:17 am
Hate-filled, Big Bruv? That someone on the Kiwiblog right (although not the truly demented wing) should accuse the left of being hate-filled beggars belief!
But, I do agree that this is shaping up as a very unsavoury campaign, and it saddens me. Some thoughts…
It won’t be anywhere as near as hate-filled and vicious as 1975, when the full arsenal of rascist and anti-communist fear-mongering was deployed against a decent, unsuspecting crowd of old school politicians — Bill Rowling had great personal integrity — by a real swine. But it’s little solace to know that things have been worse.
I’m not about to try and defend the EFA (you may have noticed), which I have some doubts about as a practical measure. But I can certainly understand the concerns that underlie it. I’m sorry, you can dismiss “the Hollow Men” all you like, but I haven’t seen anybody being sued for defamation. Plenty of threats, I understand, from attack lawyers. If you want to see a real example of a government trying to con its way into power with lies and secret money with lots of strings attached, you only have to look as far back as 2005.
Finally, I would note that, while the Democrats’ hands are far from clean, it is the Republican Party in the US that has been pioneering the dirtiest, most unscrupulous campaigning techniques seen since, er, the McCarthy era. That evil genius Karl Rove has a lot to answer for. Now, which party in NZ has the links with the Republicans?
You have to understand that if there is fear on my side of the fence, it is fear that people on your side will stoop to use Rovian tactics to which they will not be able to respond. Just like 1975 in NZ, recent Australian elections (babies overboard?), and recent US elections, to list just a few of the more salient examples.
April 15th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Personal attacks are hardly confined to coming from Labour!!
April 15th, 2008 at 10:36 am
Jafa
I was not talking about 1975 (It annoys me when either the left or right use what happened in the past as justification for their unsavory behaviour) I am talking about this election campaign (and make no mistake it HAS started already)
The Hollow men point you make is interesting, sadly in usual left wing fashion you seek to justify your own parties theft by accusing the Nat’s of something else, what the Nat’s did was NOT illegal, what Labour did was.
While you do admit there is fear on the left it does not excuse or explain why we are seeing the unprecedented level of nasty personal attacks, just why is it that the left fear the loss of power?
And really…..trying to tie the Nat’s in with Rove only highlights the desperation the left are displaying.
April 15th, 2008 at 10:59 am
Big Bruv,
I just discovered that I have a blog site all ready made and couldn’t resist, so have posted my earlier response to you there: http://jafapete.wordpress.com/ I even say something nice about your good self. Not that I expect to have many visitors.
In response to your response I would just point out that you asked, “why is it that the left are acting this way?” and I replied to that, i.e., I was trying to explain and not to justify. History is often an explanation, if not a justification.
Also, legality is not the same as morality, and 2005 demonstrates the difference in my view. I’m not sure that the EFA is the solution, for practical reasons.
As for the Nats and Republicans, well, I hope you’re right about that. But it does seem that quite a few of the kiwiblog right are hard-wired with the more leprous organs of the US rightwing.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:20 am
“Not that I expect to have many visitors.”
You won’t. Blogs produced by tired old mind blocked propaganda speiling Bush hating global communists are like flower wearing hippies at an auction of Betamax recorders. What a yawn.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:21 am
Pascal the Socialists dont distinguish between our money and their money As far as they and their supporters are concerned its all their money. To be wasted as they see fit. Clark Cullen Williams all of them.
Their mind set is that the citizen will pay until they bleed and then some more
Ive noticed the civil service and tertaries all have the same mentality. Its just taxpayers money there plenty more where that came from .
Same in local government. Spend spend spend ..No thought for the Quality of the spending. In fact their whole system is geared to over spending the budget so they get more next year.
For one whose spent a lifetime in organisations doing their darnest to make every dollar go as far as possible one finds it perverse but not surprising that politicans are so blase.
They are financial pygmies.
April 15th, 2008 at 11:42 am
Redbaiter, I wish I had your facility for comedy.
No, I don’t expect to be inundated with visitors. Prime mover advantage seems to count for so much in cyberspace.
The main “problem” with the left-wing blogs is that they’re so worthy and earnest so much of the time. Not as much fun. So feel free to contribute your special talents… but don’t expect your ruse to work there, Sasha Redbaiter Cohen.
PS, a little hyphenation would enhance the effect of “tired old mind blocked propaganda speiling Bush hating global communists”.
April 15th, 2008 at 12:22 pm
Paul’s comments about the fairness of the 39% marginal tax rate are incredible. I could expect them from a school teacher, but not from a self employed person, unless that self employed person had extremely lucrative government contracts. As a tax advisor I provide guidance to people and their investments. What I have seen from the 39% tax rate is some rather irrational investment decisions. Decisions that would have not been made with a 33% tax rate.
The complexities added to the Fringe Benefit Tax legislation because of the 39% rate are mind boggling.
Add in there Income Attribution companies all necessary because of a 39% tax rate. The clerical cost is alarming. And I suppose that Fair Dividend Rate stuff was an offshoot of the 39% rate. Accountants should be advising people on future cash flows rather than spending months studying the intricacies of this crap.
April 15th, 2008 at 12:31 pm
Roger the dodger- your 4.16pm effort.
Only when my nose is blocked son; unlike yourself I still have eyes and ears. I see; I hear and most of what I see and hear from yourself is pure unmitigated bollocks. How many more times will Helen Clark have to disassociate herself from remarks made by that foot in the mouth twit Mike Williams? The longer that crap goes on the more the feathers will stick.
Even someone as supposedly intelligent as yourself can see that the Labour Party president is fast becoming a liability.
How say you?