Minor Leaders Debate

October 27th, 2008 at 11:07 pm by David Farrar

I thought it was interesting how restrained everyone was. Winston, for example, was being very constructive and making serious points. Maybe they all realised the usual squabbling would sit badly with voters in such uncertain economic times.

Not sure if there are any winners or losers from it. How did others find it?

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43 Responses to “Minor Leaders Debate”

  1. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    Winston was a lot less sweaty than normal!

    Still a fruitloop, and xenophobic!

    He wants to keep out any immigrants, even Brits, Aussies, and Canadians.

    So forward thinking!

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  2. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,834 comments) says:

    Did ACT represent?

    It’s the only minor party that is going to hold any power after 8 November, which is good.

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  3. Vinick (217 comments) says:

    I thought Rodney was excellent. He clearly has a good relationship with the Maori Party (as we’ve also seen by them having Tariana speak at Conferences) and Key should be using him to pull them inside a National-led Government.

    Instead, Key is rubbing up with that prostitute Dunne.

    Pitiful.

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  4. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    And still Winston First can’t rule out National.

    What a dreamer. BMW 7 series aren’t that good!

    Winston listen carefully, you are not wanted. EVER!

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  5. WebWrat (516 comments) says:

    How did I find it? Well I just looked at the telly and there it was! ROLF!

    On a more serial note … Rodney gets my party vote.

    Pissed me off that Rodney appeared to get the least talking time and that Mark Sainsbury never let him finish what he was saying.

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  6. emmess (1,420 comments) says:

    I found Genetix to be absolutely pathetic
    How you can you afford it? – Stock standard answer – How can we afford not to?

    Banderton was his usual self – a grumpy old c**t

    The Dunny actually made a bit of sense

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  7. Anthony (789 comments) says:

    Strange audience response on the late news. I thought Rodney was the only one to give some definite polices. I couldn’t recall what Jeanette said, yet the young women questioned seemed to like her. I did agree that Tariana gave a largely good performance, having some points of agreement with Rodney.

    I also thought the commentators were unfair in saying Act has done a backflip by supporting the entrenchment of the Maori seats. Rodney was making a point of principle, that changing the number of Maori seats should have the same threshold as changing the number of other seats. It doesn’t mean that Act think the Maori seats are a good idea.

    I guess the Maori Party will find it a hard sell to support a National lead government even though they appear to have a few common policies.

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  8. Colonel Masters (420 comments) says:

    I thought the studio audience was a much stranger lot than those they interviewed after the Key/Clark debate. They all looked like died in the wool Green supporters to me.

    Hide impressed very much, straight talking and enunciating policy. Plus he is fascinating to look at. Turia also came across very well.

    Interestingly, the minor party stocks on iPredict registered little change either during or after the “debate”. (It was more like a congenial meeting over the teacups.)

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  9. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,834 comments) says:

    Anthony says at 12:01 am:

    I also thought the commentators were unfair in saying Act has done a backflip by supporting the entrenchment of the Maori seats. Rodney was making a point of principle, that changing the number of Maori seats should have the same threshold as changing the number of other seats. It doesn’t mean that Act think the Maori seats are a good idea.

    Does this mean ACT won’t support the abolishing of the Maori seats before the 2011 election? National and ACT need to box clever on this issue. The potential overhang situation needs to be neutralised by 2011. The Maori party would still get into parliament under MMP, it would just stop people who use to be on the Maori roll from getting two bites of the cherry.

    Put the Maori seat question to a referendum at the same time as the anti-smacking bill question. The only problem for ACT is the MMP referendum as I’m guessing ACT doesn’t want MMP scrapped before they complete their good work and as the New Zealand economy is completely stuffed it will take some time for ACT to deliver the results New Zealand needs.

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  10. wikiriwhis business (3,883 comments) says:

    “Pissed me off that Rodney appeared to get the least talking time and that Mark Sainsbury never let him finish what he was saying.”

    But I wonder if that can help a candidate.

    If I was a candidate and being interupted, I would just bide my time, make more statements and let myself be interrupted.
    People watching catch on, there’s ways to use the system. And the interviewer learns to respect you next time after reading the letters to the editor.

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  11. brendensheehan (45 comments) says:

    By the grin on Winston’s face I think the right has cause to be afraid, to be very afraid…..

    Remember the 2005 polls and the last 2 weeks of election anyone?

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  12. Hagues (711 comments) says:

    Haha old Winnie wants to work with Rodney, but Rodney wont have a bar of it :)

    Rodney says he want to work with real policy and Winnie’s had his chance in government and failed to deliver!

    Once again Rodney was the best, and spoke of actual policy, but needed to get himself more talking time.

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  13. Lee (627 comments) says:

    Interesting poll result in the latest Colmar. Nearly 80% say that the party with the most votes should lead the government. This suggests there could be a serious backlash if Labour comes a distant second to National but still forms a coalition. The Maori Party need to think very carefully about how they act after the election. If National is 45% or over and Labour under 40, then putting Labour into power may well damage the MP in the long run. I understand that they may feel unable to enter a formal coalition with National (still think thats far more possible than people think), but it may be in their interests to at least give a National led government a confidence vote agreement.

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  14. Lee (627 comments) says:

    This is brilliant!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz-election-2008/news/article.cfm?c_id=1501799&objectid=10539529

    Spot on :)

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  15. Lindsay Addie (1,394 comments) says:

    Turia and Hide and Dunne came across ok, Tariana was a lot better than I thought she’d be.
    Winston was trying to be a statesman. He’s put on that act before so I’m not fooled by him.
    Anderton came across as a prick, his outburst about last nights One News Colmar-Brunton on who has the right to lead the next govt had a bad look to it. Painted himself as undemocratic and a typical socialist.
    As for Jeanette Fitzsimons, God help us if she ever gets her butt around the cabinet table!

    Overall it wasn’t a particularly interesting debate.

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  16. Glutaemus Maximus (2,207 comments) says:

    brendensheehan (44) Vote: 0 5 Says:

    October 28th, 2008 at 12:22 am
    “By the grin on Winston’s face I think the right has cause to be afraid, to be very afraid…..

    Remember the 2005 polls and the last 2 weeks of election anyone?”

    Brendan, that is a very strange thing to comment. Anyway, it wasn’t a grin, it was a lot of wind!

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  17. Ryan Sproull (7,093 comments) says:

    Interesting poll result in the latest Colmar. Nearly 80% say that the party with the most votes should lead the government. This suggests there could be a serious backlash if Labour comes a distant second to National but still forms a coalition.

    In other words, a serious backlash if Labour won.

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  18. Craig Ranapia (1,915 comments) says:

    I thought it was interesting how restrained everyone was. Winston, for example, was being very constructive and making serious points. Maybe they all realised the usual squabbling would sit badly with voters in such uncertain economic times.

    Or someone in TVNZ way paying attention to the negative response to Clark and Key shouting over each other, and someone read the leaders the riot act in the green room, told Sainsbury to plug in his spine and act like a moderator and… well, moderate. Don’t think any of them said much worth listening to (and I nearly pissed my panties laughing when Turia said she “gets on” with Helen Clark, because I’ve reliably been told a very different story), but that’s a whole other story.

    By the grin on Winston’s face I think the right has cause to be afraid, to be very afraid…..

    Well, Sheehan, I think you and your fellow Labour lap-dogs should be very affraid if you’re pinning your hopes on Winnie flinging enough shit to get you over the line. I recall we were being promised a neutron bomb that was going to wipe out Bob Clarkson, and that turned out to be a wet sparkler. And even if you do, want to go back to Botany and explain to the Asian communities there how much of Winston First’s racist immigration policy will be adopted by a Labour-lead government if that’s what it takes? Privatising Kiwibank? How will a Labour First government amend the Reserve Bank Act?

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  19. Lindsay Addie (1,394 comments) says:

    The polling companies in many ways are asking the wrong questions in these polls, they should ask voters which coalition option they prefer Helen’s Hydra or Key and friends?

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  20. davidp (3,576 comments) says:

    There are only three possible election outcomes:

    1. Labour with Maori and others.
    2. National with Maori and others.
    3. National with others.

    So if you don’t want Maori as part of the coalition, then you need to get off the fence and swing to National. If I were National, I’d be getting the message out.

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  21. Murray (8,844 comments) says:

    Didn’t make Clark and Key look too flash though did it?

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  22. Ross Miller (1,686 comments) says:

    Rodney and ACT blew it big time with his announcement that ACT would support the Maori Party in entrenching the Maori seats.

    My ACT friend down our road (whose son blanked out John Keys front tooth on the billboard on my loading race – bless his cottin pickin sox) phoned me this morning and asked for me to drop by and pick up a cheque for National. One vote at least gone west ACT …. I suspect many more.

    Brain explosion or what?

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  23. GPT1 (2,116 comments) says:

    I found it about as interesting as an equity lecture. It might be important but I just couldn’t get into it. Winston was canny, Rodney was shameless in getting his key policies across but no one had a decent crack at Winston and everyone is tip toeing around the Maori Party. I thought Rodney might have at least pointed out that regardless of the inquiries it has been clearly proven that Winston is a hypocrite and a liar.

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  24. John Boscawen (146 comments) says:

    davidp swing to National?

    David if all you want to do is change the government you need to swing to either Act or National. When it comes to changing the government a vote for either is a vote for a change of government…..and only a vote for Act or National is a guaranteed vote for achange of government.

    However Act and Rodney stood out last night as the only party totally opposed to the Emissions Trading Scheme. This will impose massive costs on our economy, accentuated as we move into a recession. Whole industries will be wiped out.

    The more people who party vote for Act, the bigger will be the mandate to repeal the ETS.

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  25. Gooner (995 comments) says:

    Why Ross? The ‘Pakeha’ seats are entrenched. Isn’t it ‘one law for all’ or do you support different rules for Maori than those for Pakeha?

    And if you look beyond the announcement you will see how this helps National. That is what this is about also.

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  26. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    “Isn’t it ‘one law for all’ or do you support different rules for Maori than those for Pakeha?

    Think about what you just said…….

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  27. Gooner (995 comments) says:

    Yes, I know what you’re getting at Patrick. I’m trying to rationalise this as it came as a bit of a surprise to me too.

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  28. expat (4,048 comments) says:

    you aint makin no sense pat star -maori seats are patronising, why DO we have em?

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  29. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,834 comments) says:

    I’m comfortable with the Maori seats disappearing at the 2011 election.

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  30. OECD rank 22 kiwi (2,834 comments) says:

    Jeanette Fitzimons is “SCARY”.

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  31. davidp (3,576 comments) says:

    John B>swing to National?

    Sorry… “National” was shorthand for “National or one of the parties pledged to enter a coalition agreement with National”.

    I’m glad that most of the parties are choosing to announce who they’ll align with before the election, rather than leaving the voter to guess. The exception is the Maori Party. Which means that if they’re the only unaligned party and there is no clear majority, then the election will be decided by a few hundred people attending huis that are only open to people on the Maori roll. And probably on the basis of ethnically based government spending and entrenched privilege. The only way to prevent this happening is for National and the parties that have declared in favour of National (ACT and Dunne) to have a clear majority.

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  32. Patrick Starr (3,675 comments) says:

    expat – thats exactly the point I’m highlighting. We already have “different rules for Maori than those for Pakeha”

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  33. mattyroo (1,020 comments) says:

    Just watched it.

    Winston said one sensible thing….

    “I would support the removal of the Smacking Bill, I would support an ‘Anti Whacking’ Bill”

    Fucking Sainsbury the pink cunt, cut Rodney off anytime he tried to get his point across.

    And for that fucking leper Anderton…. Exterminate the parasite.

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  34. Sam (498 comments) says:

    Here’s a question arising from last night’s debate – even if it was only Winston’s hot air – What if JK does turn-about and take in Peters to effect a change of government? (I dunno, citing exoneration, country’s best interests to have National at the helm, more Nat votes than Labour, etc etc). While JK hasn’t betrayed our trust yet, so we have no real reason to distrust him, nor has he been placed in the position that might just confront him after the election. What then if he decides to bring him aboard?

    I’m not sure why, but I do find this conceivable, and it scares me…

    And come to think of it, would probably be a great outcome for Labour (ridding themselves of the Peters association, while ensuring a brief National reign at, quite frankly, a terrible time to be governing (but when we need the best governance)…

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  35. freethinker (688 comments) says:

    Noted how Jeanette Fitzsimpleton was against giving electors the chance to change/remove MMP – Tariana would argue for a different form but accept the result and Rodney explaining the voting system was the purview of NZ voters not the politicians.

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  36. Mr Nobody NZ (397 comments) says:

    Sam: “What if JK does turn-about and take in Peters to effect a change of government?”

    I firmly believe that scenario isn’t just unlikely but impossible. Why? Because National knows if they were to do this they wouldn’t just damage their party they would destroy it.

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  37. philu (13,393 comments) says:

    http://whoar.co.nz/2008/it-was-all-a-great-big-yawn/

    phil(whoar.co.nz)

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  38. DamnedAngry (242 comments) says:

    Decision08 – Rodney by a country mile!

    [URL=http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=election2008pollsbt6.jpg][IMG]http://img397.imageshack.us/img397/525/election2008pollsbt6.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

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  39. DamnedAngry (242 comments) says:

    Election08 – It’s RODNEY by a country mile!

    http://img397.imageshack.us/my.php?image=election2008pollsbt6.jpg

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  40. baxter (893 comments) says:

    ANDERTON as usual was a loudmouth blowhard spouting any figures that came into his head. Rodney was precise and clear with his policy. Winston was a turnoff with his blather which is no longer believable. Jeanette was impractical and is just a stand in until Sue Bradford takes over after the election. Tariana was dignified and presented as being the most genuine whether you accept her policies or not. DUNNE was unimpressive and his defence of the bureaucratic albatross {Families Commission} unconvincing and should be the first wastage eliminated .

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  41. coolas (115 comments) says:

    While Rodney will ‘never ever’ join a cabinet with Winston
    Winston had only one condition to join Rodney
    “Rodney has to stop wearing that awful jacket.”
    Alligator brizzled & Winnie chuckled.
    Rodney did well though.
    They all did.
    What a comparison between the John & Helen sniping
    The impression I got was that all of them were articulate, courteous & professional.
    They would all serve well in an administration.
    Anderton comes across as pompous. He’s acheived a lot & too proud perhaps.
    Winnie played both mischievious boy & statesman so convincingly I knew it was all an act.
    He’s such a showman. Charm the knickers off a nun that one.
    Janette i& Tarians were stars.
    What beautiful women.
    Different gaols but each so passionate & deeply caring.
    Both would be an asset in cabinet.
    And don’t worry about them blowing the budget
    They’ve bought up children in households with little money.

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  42. gd (2,286 comments) says:

    IMHO the poll that had 80% wanting the largest party to form the government just cost the socialists the election.

    None of the minors will risk going with other than the largest party or at a minimum giving confidnec and supply.

    if they dont they will be dog meat come 2011. Only 15% said the largest party shouldnt have the mandate and 5% were dont knows.

    The citizens have spoken and said they dont like the tali wagging the dog which is what we have with MMP its not like thta in other MMP countries but NZ hasnt matured enough.

    So expect a binding referendum as promised by JK before 2011 to reject MMP and then another to select STV or go back to FPP

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  43. Ross Miller (1,686 comments) says:

    Gooner … it may come as a big suprise to you but we don’t have “Pakeha Seats” … we have General Seats and the Maori Seats and anyone (including Maori) can go on the General Role (and of course many Maori do).

    There is simply no place for racially based seats in New Zealand going forward. And for ACT to argue for their entrenchment just defys belief and quite franky Gooner, to align yourselves with the Greens and the Maori Party on this one has done your mob no end of electoral damage. All year long you and your mob have castigated John Key with .. “pussy” and the need to become more Don Brash like. Well, I can tell you one thing for sure, Don Brash will be looking on in disbelief at Rodney’s brain explosion which I have on good authority came at complete suprise to the ACT Board.

    Anyway, the upshot of all this is that now ex-ACT farmer friend came up with a cheque for $xxx and an assurance that he and his wife have walked away from your Party.

    Should I be happy? Yes and no. Yes if its more votes and money for National but no because we need ACT as a viable and long term ally. And the sad thing about all of this is that Rodney didn’t need to say diddly squat.

    One final comment. If you have to explain then really you have lost the argument and you don’t need John Ancell to tell you that. Sad.

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