General Debate 13 November 2008

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OECD rank 22 kiwi

Are Helen Clark and Michael Cullen hard up for money?

That’s the only reason I can think of as to why they would be through the humiliation of staying on in parliament. Is that why they have been allocated shadow ministry positions? Do they get paid extra for this?
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November 13, 2008 6:10am
Chicken Little

Anyone care to hazard a guess how long it will take ‘the left’ to stop whinging about –

a) ‘ the threshold’s to high ‘

b) ‘ Helen’s the best PM we’ve ever had, not like that Key fella – all flash and no shovel ‘

c) ‘ a referendum on MMP = a direct attack on demockracy ‘

d) ‘ it wasn’t our fault we got turfed out of power – it was those dam pesky voters staying home ‘

I’m guessing at least a year (with The Stranded taking 2 years)

also, what excuses will they use next time around?
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November 13, 2008 6:43am
chfr

Chicken I have one more to add

NZ First got more votes than ACT.

I am getting sick of the hyprocracy of the left if the positions were reversed they would be laughing. Why is it always that when they lose we need to change things but if they are winning we who spot the faults are winging??
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November 13, 2008 6:56am
reid

Anyone notice Obama’s announced a renewed focus on Afghanistan? That’s been well predicted as have the reasons why.

Unfortunately for the US, Afghanistan is the anvil upon which the armies of many nations have been broken. It’s never been defeated though many have tried. I don’t think the US is going to have a different experience.

Secondly, yet another call to DPF: let’s have some serious focused debates on strategies to deal with the global economy.
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November 13, 2008 7:01am
Frank

The global economy will be seriosly debated over the next few years.

The $US will be repaced by an International Standard Currency backed by the RMB
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November 13, 2008 7:26am
PhilBest

reid (1352) Vote: 1 0 Says:

November 13th, 2008 at 7:01 am
“Anyone notice Obama’s announced a renewed focus on Afghanistan? That’s been well predicted as have the reasons why.

Unfortunately for the US, Afghanistan is the anvil upon which the armies of many nations have been broken. It’s never been defeated though many have tried. I don’t think the US is going to have a different experience…..”

Anyone noticed that Obama’s called for more on-the-ground participation in Afghanistan from the Eurowimp countries like Germany who insist on strictly non-combatant roles, within normal business hours, hundreds of k’s from the front line; for their “troops”?

Hey, I’m starting to LIKE this guy after all………..
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November 13, 2008 7:58am
PhilBest

FRANK, thank you for that contribution, there is far too little intelligent discussion of monetary policy on this blog, let alone in the MSM; especially considering the role of loose monetary policy in causing financial crises that end up getting blamed on the “greed” of “capitalist” operators in the finance sector.

One very good comment I read in the last day or two, put it this way; the finance sector is actually nothing more than “A CONDUIT FOR MONETARY POLICY”.

I am pessimistic about the chances of an “International Standard Currency”, but I certainly agree that the US dollar has had its day. Any alternative currency that is BIG enough, that is run under sound monetary principles, stands to supplant the US dollar in times to come. Again, I am just repeating others opinion that I have read, but Chinese monetary policy, not hampered by the need to pander to an economically illiterate voting public, looks increasingly likely to put their Yuan front and center of the world economy.
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November 13, 2008 8:06am
PhilBest

…….and of course, WHY NOT GOLD………?
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November 13, 2008 8:07am
expat

Take part in your local community entities. Make sure labour arent screwing you.
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November 13, 2008 8:14am
PhilBest

Sorry, that pushed my button, I am going to keep pointing THIS out:

On Michael Cullen’s watch:

The increase in NZ’s money supply has become worse than the USA
NZ’s house prices have become 50% MORE UNAFFORDABLE than in the USA
NZ’s household DEBT has become worse than the USA
NZ’s overseas borrowing per capita has become worse than the USA
NZ’s housing market bubble started to deflate at about the same time as the USA
NZ’s finance companies started falling over before anything of the sort happened in the USA

And the MSM has the barefaced mendacity to slag off the USA for causing us and the rest of the world problems because of their free-wheeling capitalist greed; AND keep up a myth that Michael Cullen and Labour were RESPONSIBLE economic managers?

Remember in decades past when finance companies fell over, it was front page news, we got photos and stories about mum and dad investors who’d lost their life’s savings? So why the blackout now that we’ve got the worst of the past occurrences, multiplied by ten? Doesn’t suit their socialist arsewiping narrative, perhaps?
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November 13, 2008 8:21am
sam269

“Frank
The global economy will be seriosly debated over the next few years.”

Not likely when you can just blame it on socialists and get friendly arse slapping all around.

And any comment on Keys massive, unprecedented, impending ministerial interference in pharmac?
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November 13, 2008 8:25am
sam269

haha that free market is a bit of a bugger eh mr PillBest
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November 13, 2008 8:29am
PhilBest

OK, perhaps the MSM are keeping mum about the financial crisis in NZ with the agreement of the main political parties, so as to avoid panic precipitating worse problems. We DO have the following advantages:
– the government doesn’t have significant overseas borrowings (the private sector has been doing that for them),
– the fact that most of our banks are overseas owned means that they may well survive with injections of money from taxpayers other than NZ taxpayers (but you can bet Kiwibank will cost us a fortune to prop up)
– we have NOT “bailed out” our finance sector. Yes, I regard this as an advantage when it comes to the ability of our market to recover.

BUT we DO still have the problem, and it is HUGE, of house prices being about twice the price they SHOULD be relative to actual EARNING capacity of NZ-ers and relative to the size of the real economy where whatever wealth NZ has, is generated. And we are almost ALL in denial about this, and it will take forever for this distortion to “shake down” if it ever does and IF it is allowed to by responsible government for a change.

One of the foremost responsibilities of government that has been reneged on, is to ensure that housing remains affordable. The alternatives are NOT JUSTIFIABLE BY ANY ASSESSMENT.
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November 13, 2008 8:31am
PhilBest

Sam269, typical lying socialist, where is the “free market” when politicians control the money supply and interest rates and push up the prices of housing by not allowing development?
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November 13, 2008 8:33am
stayathomemum

“”And any comment on Keys massive, unprecedented, impending ministerial interference in pharmac?””

Yes.
My sister-in-law might survive Ca breast with Herceptin. So might yours.
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November 13, 2008 8:36am
sam269

stayathomemum, Pity my two brothers might die of something else that could be cured for the same amount of money.
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November 13, 2008 8:44am
expat

Besides that – the future is FORWARD.

Get involved in your local community entities. Make sure labour arent screwing you at the grass roots, still.
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November 13, 2008 8:55am
dime

afghanistan has never been defeated?? ummmmmmmmmmmm ok

they were fuckin smashed by the US a few years ago… they only reason you could say they werent defeated is that the yanks are the good guys.. they didnt kill everyone there.. but could have quite easily.

its like me destroying your house, leaving nothing but a giant hole in the ground.. but leaving you alive.. then you saying “i wasnt defeated” haha
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November 13, 2008 9:15am
Falafulu Fisi

Where are all the anti-ETS and anti-global-warming readers here at DPF? I have noted the absence of the subject from being discussed here at DPF since last Saturday night? Is it because John Key who’s a fan of Al Gore (and National) is taking office next week, then all of a sudden, the ETS opponents automatically became Al Gore fan as well since the election night simply because Mr Key is not opposing the ETS.

Only Rodney & ACT that they stay true to their principles. I hope that Rodney will be able to have an influence in the coalition to dump National’s planned ETS, but the NZ Herald this morning thinks it is an impossible task for Rodney/ACT to achieve that because National is going to ignore them on that issue?

Now that National (with the minors ACT/UF) is the next government, DPF won’t publish any article on global warming or ETS. Global warming and ETS topics used to be most heated debated threads here on Kiwiblog, but we’re not going to see those interesting topics of discussion here anymore are we?
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November 13, 2008 9:23am
fizzleplug

Sorry Dime, but what happened between the US and Afghanistan was not a defeat to the Afghans. The leadership of the Taliban survived, and is now coming back stongly in the Northern provinces. Not really a resounding defeat there.

Opium growing exploded again after the invasion, when warlords starting using the drug as a source of income, which the Taliban had outlawed. Not something I’d put in a “pro” column in my invasion summary.

The Afghans have never been defeated. They have been occupied in the past, often for extended periods of time, but they have never been defeated. The people don’t know how to lose. If you have queries or doubts, ring the Russians. I recall they had a skirmish in the mountains there once.
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November 13, 2008 9:23am
Murray

Scans a lot like Bobby Fisk talking about Iraq dime.

Kept claiming that the sand would defeat the coalition forces before they got within 50 miles of Bhagdad as I recall. For some reason no one seemed keen to point out he was full of shit.

Obama certainly plans to pull out of Iraq but his plan – as he said – was to pout those troops into Afghanistan. He certainly thinks he can pull it off.

Of course if hed ever spent 30 seconds ina uniform himself he might not regard himself as a military genius.
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November 13, 2008 9:28am
stayathomemum

That might be Sam, but the wassup badges could have paid for all three of them. I consider life, and kids retaining their Mum or Dad, high priority.
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November 13, 2008 9:45am
PaulL

Visited the Standard – not much happening on the blogs, so thought I’d have a look. I was really surprised to learn that nobody liked National before the election, nobody likes National after the election (in fact, most people who voted for him are now really really worried about what he might do). But somehow, on the day, mass hysteria overtook NZ and we accidentally elected him. Amazing really, and I’m very concerned about our democracy when this kind of thing could happen. I suspect it would be better for all of us if we just passed a law that said Labour should always be in power – it would avoid these kinds of accidents.
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November 13, 2008 9:47am
dave strings

A thought on the push-back regarding the 90 day Probationary Period that is proposed by the New Government Leading party.

One of the great challenges for business recently has been the level of churn generated by low unemployment levels. This has resulted in wage increases that far exceeded inflation, especially in the public service where policy analysts jump on the merry-go-round as soon as they get their first year under their belt.

Let’s change the ERA so that employers and employees have THE SAME RIGHTS as each other. You can’t leave your employer, or be fired, without following due process would be one implication, and how that would pan out would be interesting.

Identical sauce for the goose and gander has always been a desire of the left, maybe it’s time it was finally realised 🙂

What think you fellow blogfollowers?
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November 13, 2008 9:52am
Lee

reid,

The US and its coalition allies do not need to defeat Afghanistan (already done). They need to defeat the hardcore of the Taliban and Al-Qaeda in Pakistan. Both of those goals are achievable, but this is one of those areas where Bush really dropped the ball. Obama’s call for a second “surge” there is welcome.

Oh and other nations may have failed in Afgghanistan in the past, but they did not have the US Marines. Semper Fi!
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November 13, 2008 9:56am
PinkGina

PhilBest

Your comments recently on the real economy and todays Monetary Policy refer.

The reality is that the channels through which monetary policy affects the real economy are still clogged. There are several such channels, including ones for bank lending. But most of them go through the money market, as neither companies nor households have direct access to central bank money. To the extent that the money markets are not working properly, monetary policy is correspondingly ineffective.
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November 13, 2008 10:12am
PaulL

The US has not defeated Afghanistan. The US has overthrown the previous authoritarian govt of Afghanistan (the Taliban), and given the Afghanis democracy. To suggest that their intent is now to somehow occupy Afghanistan is silly. They do have work to do in helping Afghanistan to achieve security and order, but I don’t see any suggestion that there is intent to somehow suppress the lawfully elected govt of that country.

Agree that a large part of the problems now relate to the border territory between Pakistan and Afghanistan, in which area a number of militant groups exist. And also agree that it is almost impossible to do anything about that given the terrain. The Pakistanis aren’t trying too hard though.
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November 13, 2008 10:14am
dime

ah crap my post didnt show up.. ill retype..

say china invades new zealand. they wipe out the majority of our armed forces and government. they blow up our infrastructure… whats left of the govt prganises a resistance and we all fight on a little bit gorilla style..

would ya call us defeated??

i fuckin would!

or in the eyes of the US haters – is an enemy only defeated when completely wiped out?

was france defeated in WW2?

i say yes!
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November 13, 2008 10:40am
david

Has anyone looked at what is happening to the Kiwi/USD rate this week.

According to what I can see, there have been a series of market movements that don’t make much sense to me in terms of normal market activity.

As I see it, the following has happened.

On Tuesday morning circa 6am NZDT, there was a big sell-off which drove the spot rate down by about 2 cents (from .60 to .58)

On Wednesday morning at circa 4 am NZDT, another sell-off drove the Kiwi down by 1.5cents (from .585 to .57)

On Thursday morning circa 5 am NZDT, the Kiwi dove another 2 cents (from.575 to .555)

Each of these falls occurred very sharply (between 15 and 30 minutes)

Any info you seers can glean from the entrails of the sacrificial goat would be appreciated.

(maybe it is just JK playing with the Reserve Bank’s International currency fund to make us all wealthier Heh?)
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November 13, 2008 10:55am
dime

the dollar is just weird.. is the reserve bank buying a shit load of US dollars??
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November 13, 2008 11:05am
david

dime
why would you at mid .50’s when the long term averge is something like .62~.63 I believe.

(usual disclaimer here: errors and ommissions excepted)
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November 13, 2008 11:09am
david

It is possible that Bollard has been selling off the US dollars that he bought 12 months ago in the high .70’s and that is what has been stopping these slides (or deliberate plays) stone dead each time.! If that is the case then NZ Inc just got a whole lot of additional assets (in the form of cash) in the Balance Sheet.
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November 13, 2008 11:11am
dime

if he was selling US dollars for kiwi.. that would give the dollar a bump?

what about the cash exchange i read about.. something about the US reserve bank swapping us or lending us billions of dollars? didnt really keep track of it..
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November 13, 2008 11:16am
Hagues

Falafulu Fisi “Where are all the anti-ETS and anti-global-warming readers here at DPF?”

Heres one! I have just been waiting to hear what deal Rodney can do with National over this. Rodney is actually an qualified enviornmental scientist whereas Al Gore just wants people trading carbon since he owns shares in carbon trading companies. Given the amount of information out there that debunks AGW (even the Greenies have to change the name to ‘climate change’ since its not warming anymore) and the economic crisis (ETS going to cost $3000 pa per household) I’m hoping that Rodney can convience National to repeal Labours ETS and hold off their own own for a few years by which time hopefully the hoax if fully exposed.
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November 13, 2008 11:23am
david

Presumably if the downwards pressure was sufficient, the best he might do by buying Kiwi dollars is arrest a slide (from memory his earlier interventions slowed but did not totally stop the strengthening in the NZD against the USD). It still begs the question though, if the downwards pressure was just the market in general, it would be a slide but wouldn’t occur just once a day as this series seems to be doing.

I’m not a trader (otherwise I would be retired with 40 or 50 mill in the bank and might be looking for a political party to lead) but am trying to work out the psychology of attacking a currency the first trading day after an election.

It may have something to do with an expectation that there may be a certain paralysis in Government when there is a political change. The outgoing don’t really give a shit and the incoming neither have their heads nor their hands around the levers of power and are legally inhibited from taking action. It provides rather a clear field for a speculator.

What it does say to me is that there are still people and institutions out there with plenty of cash at their disposal if they can take positions like this on currencies. How this plays alongside a global credit crunch and seismic shift in financial systems I don’t quite know. My economics education was in the 60’s and I haven’t been practising the dark art since then so this is uncharted territory in terms of my understanding.
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November 13, 2008 11:29am
david

Hagues
You won’t get a lot of arguments from me on that suggestion.
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November 13, 2008 11:31am
Falafulu Fisi

Hagues said…
…hoax if fully exposed.

I hope that National and specifically Dr. Nick Smith (assuming he will be taking over the Environment portfolio), will read the papers (argument against/for AGW) and get some ideas. Don’t rely solely on advises from Dr. David Wratt of NIWA on global warming issues, as I suspect that Dr. Wratt himself is suffering from dont upset/challenge the statusquo, just simply follow what the consensus/majority says because it must be true. In the history of science the norm or majority views often turned out to be wrong.

As the great late (Physics Nobel laureate) Richard Feynman quoted:

We have learned a lot from experience about how to handle some of the ways we fool ourselves. One example: Millikan measured the charge on an electron by an experiment with falling oil drops, and got an answer which we now know not to be quite right. It’s a little bit off because he had the incorrect value for the viscosity of air. It’s interesting to look at the history of measurements of the charge of an electron, after Millikan. If you plot them as a function of time, you find that one is a little bit bigger than Millikan’s, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, and the next one’s a little bit bigger than that, until finally they settle down to a number which is higher.

Why didn’t they discover the new number was higher right away? It’s a thing that scientists are ashamed of – this history – because it’s apparent that people did things like this: When they got a number that was too high above Millikan’s, they thought something must be wrong – and they would look for and find a reason why something might be wrong. When they got a number close to Millikan’s value they didn’t look so hard. And so they eliminated the numbers that were too far off, and did other things like that. We’ve learned those tricks nowadays, and now we don’t have that kind of a disease.

Feynman’s quote does apply to the likes of Dr. Wratt and other AGW followers. They don’t want to upset the statusquo, even if they have their own researches that shows disagreement with the statusquo, they will then abandon their findings or conclude that it was wrong simply because it was incompatible with the statusquo/consensus.

Now here are some references for Dr. Smith to read or whoever in the National Party that advises John Key. These (PDF format) papers are available online if you do Google on those titles, because DPF’s spammer filter will blocked messages with more than one links.

#1) “A comparison of tropical temperature trends with model
predictions”, by D.H.Douglas et al, appeared in “INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CLIMATOLOGY – 2007”

This paper exposed AGW modeling.

#2) “Consistency of modelled and observed temperature trends in the tropical troposphere” by B.D.Santer, et al, appeared in “INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF CLIMATOLOGY – 2008”

This paper from AGW researchers which is a refutation of paper #1).

#3) “Inferring instantaneous, multivariate and nonlinear sensitivities for the analysis of feedback processes in a dynamical system”, by Rossow et, al, appeared in “Royal Meteorological Society – 2004”.

This paper dismisses the use of linear model that paper #2) adopted for their rebuttal of paper #1). Paper #3) says that linear models are useless since climate system is non-linear.

Overall the weight is tilted towards the conclusion that AGW is not man made, BUT this only shows that there is no consensus at all or that AGW is not after all certain.

So, I invite Dr. Smith or John Keys advisors to read those references and make your policies according to science an not emotions and misguided populism.
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November 13, 2008 12:21pm
Ross Miller

I know this only has relevance as a possible question in some future edition of ‘Trivial Pursuits’ or perhaps as the million pound question in ‘Who Wants to be a Millionaire’ (UK Version) but can of you budding Michael Bassetts out there tell me of any other instance where a Prime Minister was not the Leader of his/her Party?

OK, its only an 8 day wonder per courtesy of an accident of circumstances but, as a student of politics, I am fascinated to know.
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November 13, 2008 12:42pm
PhilBest

# PinkGina (38) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 0 Says:
November 13th, 2008 at 10:12 am

“PhilBest

Your comments recently on the real economy and todays Monetary Policy refer.

The reality is that the channels through which monetary policy affects the real economy are still clogged. There are several such channels, including ones for bank lending. But most of them go through the money market, as neither companies nor households have direct access to central bank money. To the extent that the money markets are not working properly, monetary policy is correspondingly ineffective.”

Ah, thank you, Gina.

I agree with that assessment.

I think our only way out is massive cuts in both taxes and government spending. Especially company tax. But can you see that flying?
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November 13, 2008 1:01pm
Johnboy

Seems to a dumbarse like me that the ETS is an accountants solution to an engineering problem.
If you accept that GW is happening and man made (and I am not convinced it is) why would NZ want to write out a big cheque crippling our industries to send to the Russian Mafia or Al Gores banker when we should be spending it here on sustainable power and emisson controls etc.
Would give our economy a boost and create jobs as well.
Still I am not after a new job at the UN so I suppose I don’t understand.
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November 13, 2008 2:05pm
PhilBest

On Anthropogenic Global Warming;

Please READ, copy, and distribute THIS:

http://joannenova.com.au/globalwarming/skepticshandbook1-4.pdf

Joanne Nova, Aussie journalist, has done a superb job putting this together. Real “cut to the chase” stuff. Forget the arguments about polar bears and Arctic sea ice; there are just four points that MATTER when it comes to whether or not we should be running Emissions Trading Scams (sorry, schemes) and suchlike, or not.
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November 13, 2008 2:08pm
PhilBest

The 4 points that MATTER about Global Warming:

1) The models predicted Hot Spot is missing
2) New research has turned the ice cores significance upside down
3) Temperatures have stopped rising
4) CO2 is already close to the limit of the amount of warming it can cause anyway.

But do read the whole thing for yourselves. (link in posting above).
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November 13, 2008 2:13pm
PinkGina

Phil,

I don’t think everything will be solved by a tax cut.

I have long been of the opinion that the NZ economy is terribly unbalanced, with too much reliance on consumer spending and it’s probably difficult to stop that. There is still plenty of downside ahead for consumer spending, either in outright declines or sustained lower growth rates.

The downward shift in global economies always puts additional pressure on policymakers to act and little old NZ will follow like sheep so to speak – the problem is all the big boys are not yet in agreement what to do.

China’s recent measures look interesting
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November 13, 2008 2:15pm
llew

http://wellingtonista.com/we-can-haz

Caption contest (not so great posting links) JK & kitten. The before & after picture with JK & a suspiciously ginger hat is my favourite so far.
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November 13, 2008 3:11pm
Rex Widerstrom

Seems the union bruvvers have lost none of their talent for playing fast and loose with members’ money.

Over in Aus, Electrical Trades union boss Dean Mighell has been snapped as having led an $80,000 “luxury junket” to Britain – paid for by a workers’ redundancy fund.

It included
– Business class airfares for him and the other bruvvers.
– $27,000 on accommodation at the Royal Garden Hotel near Kensington Palace.
– At least $10,000 on meals, drinks, valet service, internet, in-house movies, the mini-bar and other items.
– And a phone call to a transsexual escort named Suzana.

Hopefully the CTU won’t need similar R&R to recover from the shock of Saturday’s result.
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November 13, 2008 7:09pm
lloydois

PhilBest last week:

“I still say that the Obama phenomenon is a cruel media hoax.

There is no way that there is no way that America is going to elect a man who comes from a background of having been a red diaper baby with a lefty nutjob white trash mother, and a Muslim father and schooling in Indonesia. And that is just the START of a long, consistent arc of a life of a member of the died-in-the-wool “hate America first” crowd.

The Obama Presidency will be marked by such disaster for the USA that I suggest that a rerun of the McCarthy hearings will be necessary for the movement that put him into power. One Vidkun Quisling gave his name to posterity when he sold his country to the Nazis. Something similar is happening here, only on a massive scale, with the media as footsoldiers. It is the neo-Marxist “Long March Through The Institutions” reaching its logical conclusion.”

And you’re engaging in debate with this fruitcake on matters of the economy…..
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November 13, 2008 7:54pm
lloydois

And here’s one for Redbaiter who spent all of last week attempting to convince us Sarah Palin ws the best person to lead the free world.

In her own words.

“”Sitting here in these chairs that I’m going to be proposing but in working with these governors who again on the front lines are forced to and it’s our privileged obligation to find solutions to the challenges facing our own states every day being held accountable, not being just one of many just casting votes or voting present every once in a while, we don’t get away with that. We have to balance budgets and we’re dealing with multibillion dollar budgets and tens of thousands of employees in our organizations.”

Go figure….the lunatics really would have taken over the asylum.
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November 13, 2008 7:59pm
Ratbiter

Iloydois – Obama’s a democrat. So obviously, his every move is calculated to destroy The Free World, and a good round of McCarthyism is required. You have a lot to learn before you get with the Kiwiblog programme.

(Thankfully, the real world where meaningful, sensible discussions of politics and the economy take place, is blissfully unaware of PhilBest and his hero Redbaiter – and the richer for it!)
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November 13, 2008 8:08pm
lloydois

I like Wolcotts summation. He might be the epitome of the effete liberal elite but he’s always worth reading.

“Her sentences seem to be missing vital ligaments when she speaks, yielding a concrete poetry similar to Rumsfeld’s musings but with nil intellectual content (Rumsfeld’s known unknowns and unknown unknowns at least had an ontological coherence). Now we’re stuck with her twangy shtick and her family soap opera, which makes the former Clinton saga look like Les Sylphides. Just as Al Gore must live with the shame of elevating Joe Lieberman to the national stage, no act of contrition John McCain can perform will be penance enough for foisting Sarah Palin on us, subjecting us to her supreme sense of entitlement. ”

http://www.vanityfair.com/online/wolcott/2008/11/ive-been-making-a-valiant.html
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November 13, 2008 8:16pm
PhilBest

OK, Illydois, I might be wrong about who was going to win the US election, but that doesn’t mean I will be wrong about the reasons why Obama SHOULDN’T have won……….I still say nothing is too extreme, to suspect this man of.

Watch Obama and the socialist Democrats turn this financial crisis into another “Great Depression”, just like FDR turned a financial crisis into a “Great Depression” in the 1930’s.
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November 14, 2008 9:31am
wikiriwhis business

“The $US will be repaced by an International Standard Currency backed by the RMB”

So are you saying that shortly there is going to be an international one world currency?
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November 14, 2008 11:14am

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Dan Moskovitz

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