US election thread
5.00 – the western states push Obama to over 270 and victory. A historic day.
4.34 – not looking likely that Democrats can get to 60 for the Senate. 58 is possible though. Electoral count now 207 to 135.
4.16 – Exit poll shows McCain getting 31% of Latino vote compared to Bush who got 40%. Electoral count now 207 to 95. Obama has won New Mexico, Iowa and Ohio
3.31 – It is Obama 200 and McCain 90. Ohio has gone to Obama and in Florida Obama leas 51% to 48% with 55% of precincts in. I think it is safe to now conclude Barack Obama will be the 44th President of the United States.
3.07 – in the Senate, Dems have picked up North Carolina, Virginia and New Hampshire. I think New Mexico also. That makes them 55. Will they make 60?
2.55 – the Democrats have picked up the Governorship of Missouri. For the US election no state has changed hands yet from 2004 – Florida and North Carolina plus Ohio should be the first to go if Obama is to win. With 43% of precincts reporting in Florida Obama ahead 52% to 48%,
2.52 – Obama 103 electoral votes to 69 for McCain. 270 needeed for a win. McCain ahead on popular vote just – by 13,000 votes. Dems now picked up three Senate seats so with their two Independents up to 54 seats.
1.40 – Obama leading in Florida by 13% but early days
1.12 – Democrats win one Senate seat – Virginia. Up to 52. They want 60.
For updates and discussion of the US election results.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Thanks David. I have linked below the results pages of the States I have so far:
Indiana
http://www.in.gov/apps/sos/election/general/general2008?page=office&countyID=-1&officeID=36&districtID=-1&candidate=
Kentucky
http://electionresults.ky.gov/KyElectWeb/kes?AC=3&R=A01000000&L=1999&N=U.S.+PRESIDENT&RV=0&DV=2906809&TP=3550&TC=120&AR=1&RF=0
Virginia
https://www.voterinfo.sbe.virginia.gov/publicsite/sbe%20Temp/
South Carolina
http://www.enr-scvotes.org/SC/8562/11928/en/summary.html
Georgia
http://sos.georgia.gov/elections/election_results/2008_1104/001.htm
Florida
http://enight.dos.state.fl.us/
Vermont doesn’t put its results until 10 Novermber, so we’ll use the network instead.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
If any Kiwiblog readers are hearing impaired, you might be interested to know that TVOne has live captioning of the coverage today from 12.30pm to 5.30pm.
That’s on Teletext page 801. Which, if you’re hearing impaired, you probably already know.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:35 pm
What measures have TVOne taking to cater for the brain impairment of the leftists and Obama believers who might be watching?? Animated characters and commentary set to rap music?
November 5th, 2008 at 1:44 pm
What measures have TVOne taking to cater for the brain impairment of the leftists and Obama believers who might be watching?? Animated characters and commentary set to rap music?
Paul Henry.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:49 pm
http://www.google.com/2008election/
pretty cool.
Call it now! McCain wins!
November 5th, 2008 at 1:55 pm
Check out
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7697829.stm
for detailed stats including state counts so far.
Interesting ones are:
Indiana a key indicator state for undecideds is McCain 50% Obama 48%
Virginia that Obama tried to turn is 56/43 to McCain
… but constantly moving.
November 5th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Thanks Rod, but I’d slit my wrists and sit in a warm bath before I’d patronize those white anting commie bastards at the BBC. I’ll be watching FOX, Drudge and Free Republic.
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/latest?ao=1
November 5th, 2008 at 2:00 pm
Early days yet, but this is what I have so far:
McCain leading in Virginia, Georgia, Indiana, Kentucky
Obama leading in Vermont, North Carolina
November 5th, 2008 at 2:02 pm
This site is great, including that obligatory red/blue map… http://www.businessday.co.nz/business_vote/us_election_/4751044 It is updated every 15 minutes, and is very informative. The last postiing is copied for your interest below:
14:00 News news reports has the Republicans winning both South Caraolina and West Virgina with McCain picking up 13 electoral college votes to take his tally to 21 over Obama’s 3.
The popular vote has Obama ahead of McCain by 51 to 48.1 per cent.
Meanwhile, with 5% of the vote counted, Virginia has MCain leading Obama by 56.2 to 42.9 per cent.
With 20% of the Indiana vote counted, McCain is ahead of Obama 50.9 to 48.0 per cent and this state is heading for a Republican win.
Obama is still trailing McCain by a massive 33.9 to 65.3 per cent in early results from Georgia.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
Also watching http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard
November 5th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
on a side note – voting is now open in the foghorn election billboard mashup.
My favourite is:
http://foghorn.co.nz/aunty-robert/
November 5th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
PA has gone. So has McCain.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:07 pm
Opps I think the spamtrap ate my post. I’ve been using the Yahoo! site to track, although I’m not sure why they are appear to be identifying some states as McCain already, when 0% of precincts are in…
http://news.yahoo.com/election/2008/dashboard
November 5th, 2008 at 2:08 pm
Florida:
McCain: 1,122,199
Obama: 1,235,237
November 5th, 2008 at 2:13 pm
No states have changed compared to 2004, yet.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:14 pm
Florida:
McCain: 1,340,251
Obama: 1,485,553
Gap now = 145,302
Gap before = 113,038
November 5th, 2008 at 2:15 pm
i much preferred the last election where we all knew Bush would win
November 5th, 2008 at 2:16 pm
Florida:
Obama: 1,685,225
McCain: 1,558,554
Gap = 126,671
November 5th, 2008 at 2:23 pm
“Redbaiter
Thanks Rod, but I’d slit my wrists and sit in a warm bath before I’d patronize those white anting commie bastards at the BBC. I’ll be watching FOX, Drudge and Free Republic.”
The truth sure hurts eh russell?
November 5th, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Being a relatively new poster, I assume my post are being getting caught by the spam catcher. I’m watching this site that provides quite a good dashboard. Sorry for the obfuscation. Perhaps someone else who can post links would care to repost it?
news dot yahoo dot com slash election slash 2008 slash dashboard
November 5th, 2008 at 2:25 pm
Florida:
Obama: 1,837,532
McCain: 1,758,670
Gap = 78,862
November 5th, 2008 at 2:28 pm
Possum says: “PA has gone Dem, VA has gone Dem – election over”.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:29 pm
What % counted?
November 5th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
CNN isn’t declaring PA yet, still.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:34 pm
State Leading
Virginia McCain
Georgia McCain
Florida Obama
Indiana McCain
Kentucky McCain
S. Carolina Obama
N. Carolina Obama
Pensylvania Obama*
*<1000 votes counted and reported by State website
November 5th, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Florida:
Obama: 1,887,893
McCain: 1,833,626
Gap = 54,267
November 5th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Oh dear – the website that I linked to earlier has not updated since I wrote that post – so, CNN it is… ( http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/ )
Libertyscott – that looks about to change with 3 key Eastern (so-called battleground) states set to fall blue…
November 5th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
Real Clear Politics is an excellent site to follow results, including percentage counted.
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
This definitely is no landslide at the moment. It isn’t over.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:39 pm
At 14M votes they are neck and neck (49.8/49.4) on vote count on BBC – much closer than the polls projected. Might be a longer night than the MSM thought.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:42 pm
We are looking at up to 375 EV’s for Obama if this pattern holds, maybe a little less. Hardly neck and neck.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Florida:
Obama: 2,004,256
McCain: 1,971,189
Gap = 33,067
McCain would have to win this State to have any chance.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:49 pm
that BBC site shows McCain having 0.6% more votes, yet Obama has over twice the number of EVs that McCain has.
What a crock.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:50 pm
@Matthew
You’ve got a population of close to 20M in Florida – far too early to call yet.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:52 pm
Florida:
Obama: 2,091,318
McCain: 2,044,893
Gap = 46,425
November 5th, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Rod, I’m just giving a progress report.
November 5th, 2008 at 2:58 pm
Florida:
Obama: 2,159,519
McCain: 2,154,916
Gap = 4,603
I’m not calling anything here.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:06 pm
cheers for the links guys…
keep it comming Matthew
November 5th, 2008 at 3:11 pm
Florida:
Obama: 2,304,656
McCain: 2,303,394
Gap = 1,262
November 5th, 2008 at 3:13 pm
Thanks DJP. I’m just a numbers sort of guy, plus I like to see democracy unfold, regardless of the media’s influence.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:15 pm
It’s all about Florida and Ohio now. Must wins for both candidates.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:16 pm
How many EV’s in Florida & Ohio?
November 5th, 2008 at 3:18 pm
Florida:
McCain: 2,341,615
Obama: 2,330,417
Gap = 11,198
Too tight, and the cities could go overwhelmingly to Obama – it’s hard to know what this result means without knowing what the voting profile is.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:20 pm
MSNBC has a precinct by precinct map of Florida as results come in
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25361792
November 5th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Matthew, wow those are some tight numbers
Gooner 27 & 20
So who is going to get California, is that generally a Demo state?
November 5th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
Florida = 27
Ohio = 20
November 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
California by default goes to the Democrats (IMHO)
November 5th, 2008 at 3:26 pm
cali is a demo state. doh.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
My EV tally has Obama on 187 (including Californa and New York) and McCain on 82 (including Florida)
November 5th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
State Leading
Virginia McCain
Georgia McCain
Florida McCain
Indiana McCain
Kentucky McCain
S Carolina McCain
N Carolina Obama
Pensylvania Obama
Msachusetts Obama
Conneticut Obama
Maine Obama
N Hampshire Obama
Vermont Obama
Rhode Island Obama
New Jersey Obama
Delaware Obama
DC Obama
Maryland Obama
Alabama
Tennessee
Michigan
Illinois
Louisiana
Arkansas
Missouri
Iowa
Minnesota
North Dakota
South Dakota
Nebraska
Colorado
New Mexico
Texas
Arizona
Wyoming
Montana
Idaho
Utah
Nevada
Washington
Oregon
California Obama
Alaska
Hawaii
New York Obama
Ohio
November 5th, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Florida:
Obama: 2,638,183
McCain: 2,615,117
Gap = 23,066
Back to Obama again.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Ohio called to Obama….
game
set
match
November 5th, 2008 at 3:31 pm
Oh and New Mexico too…
November 5th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
“What measures have TVOne taking to cater for the brain impairment of the leftists and Obama believers who might be watching?? Animated characters and commentary set to rap music?”
You mean like this?
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/fiore/2007/08/rove_family_man.html
It’s actaully really damn funny.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
McCain closing the gap in North Carolina and Obama closing the gap in Virgina
November 5th, 2008 at 3:33 pm
If Ohio goes to Obama, he only needs one more electorate college vote, given Washington State, Oregon and California will all vote for him, and Hawaii is a no brainer.
I guess we are seeing history, regardless of what you think of the outcome.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:34 pm
http://www.motherjones.com/commentary/fiore/2008/09/john-mccain-vs-the-economy.html
November 5th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
MSNBC is good for a graphical breakdown of each state
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25361792
November 5th, 2008 at 3:36 pm
And there goes Ohio… game over
November 5th, 2008 at 3:38 pm
Florida:
McCain: 2,690,625
Obama: 2,681,397
Gap = 9,228
Back to McCain again. If this pattern repeats itself for the remainder of the votes cast then this state will be too difficult to call until 100% of it is counted.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Well, Ohio goes to Obama and with it, the White House.
It seems that Kiwi in America was wrong, and all the Sarah Palin’s, Joe the Plumbers, Bradley Effects and PUMA’s couldn’t stop Obama.
Gloating aside, I think the lesson to take away from this race, and Obama’s sucess after adopting the sort of campaign tactics that made Bush successful (message discipline, strong ground game, peer to peer contact) is proof that proper campaign tactics, rather than ideology, can have a huge impact on the outcome. For all the tallk about how in a Post-Reagan world, someone like Obama could never win places like Ohio, a well crafted message won the day.
This is as much a vindication for smart campaigning as it is for the Democrats.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
interesting drilling into some of those states though.
I don’t know how you can call a state when there’s say only 3% of the vote counted. In many of those states, the call was made the opposite way to the voting (to that point).
So I think best to just wait until a lot more of the vote has been counted.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:52 pm
Florida:
Obama: 2,801,279
McCain: 2,778,087
Gap = 23,192
Back to Obama again.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Florida:
Obama: 3,256,305
McCain:3,138,577
Gap = 117,728
Looks to be going Obama’s way now.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
It seems that Kiwi in America was wrong, and all the Sarah Palin’s, Joe the Plumbers, Bradley Effects and PUMA’s couldn’t stop Obama.
Just for the record, over the last year Kiwi in America’s predictions have been:
1. Mitt Romney will win the Republican Nomination
2. Hilary Clinton will win the Democratic Nomination (although Republicans want Obama to win, because he doesn’t stand a chance in November).
3. Hilary would force a split convention and the democratic party would be torn apart.
4. The Democrats were foolish to nominate Obama; now all the Hilary supporters will vote Republican. McCain will easily win the election.
I especially like the way he’s constantly taken the care to point out that he’s OVER THERE in the US, so he has a MUCH better perspective than us clueless chumps back here in New Zealand, who’ve been brainwashed by the evil liberal media.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:56 pm
I’m watching the 04red states in the mid-US – some of these show early (unreliable) indications of swinging blue – that would seem to indicate that the end result will be closer to a landslide. Nevertheless, as others keep saying, it is early days yet…
November 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Popular vote still only 0.8% apart compared to the margins in the polls. Guess that might change a little towards Obama when the western seaboard states come into play.
Its an electoral college game now though.
November 5th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
Florida is now a side issue. Obama does not need it now. With New Mexico going to Obama, its all over.
The next thing you will hear from McCain is a concession speech. This is not the result some on this blog would have been hoping for. While I would be politically closer to McCain, I could not have voted for a ticket with Palin on it. I am sure that a lot of swing voters would have felt the same way.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
By my calculation its Obama with 267 EVs and McCain with 116 EVs.
Can’t see him loosing now.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:05 pm
I blame 24 and David Palmer for setting the stage for a Black American President.
People, 24 is FANTASY TV, not reality! Poor dumb fools.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
“I especially like the way he’s constantly taken the care to point out that he’s OVER THERE in the US, so he has a MUCH better perspective than us clueless chumps back here in New Zealand, who’ve been brainwashed by the evil liberal media.”
Well apparantly the Evil Liberal Media also got the majority of people in Ohio.
Somehow I doubt our friends on the far-right will be saying that “the wisdom of the American people shone through” about this election.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
The PUMAs were always a figment of a handful of deranged Rep suppporters’ imagination. The polling I’ve seen indicates that close to 100% of Hillary supporters voted for Obama. That’s a big deserved slap in the face for pricks like Andrew Sullivan and quite a few liberal commentators as well who swallowed so readily the Rep line that Clinton would divide the party.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:12 pm
When Obama has had his honeymoon in the White House and Obamamania fades, as it will, folks will look back to their cargo-cult mentality on election day and wonder what they were thinking. On the bright side, this massive call for “change” in the US might galvanise a few wavering LIVs here to haul their arses out of the scratcher next Sat. and do the same thing and with altogether better results.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:13 pm
Hey KIA – when you’ve finished eating that barrel load of humble pie you just bought, can you come back here to be mocked some more? I mean come on, this must be the first American politics focussed kiwiblog thread that you haven’t been all over ever.
[DPF: Please change your icon so it is not of a real person]
November 5th, 2008 at 4:15 pm
Regarding Florida only (not the whole election) don’t forget the panhandle “Redneck Riviera” which is counted later
That swung the entire election for Bush in 2000
November 5th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
“Somehow I doubt our friends on the far-right will be saying that “the wisdom of the American people shone through” about this election.”
Hardly. Your witnessing the voting outcomes of dickheads who are so dumb they thought Sarah Palin was Obama’s vice president. Crow all you want. Its never been any secret that under the influence of socialism, uneducated uncivilized knuckle dragging leftist barbarians are mulitplying in huge numbers in the US, and it is they who have brought Obama his “victory”.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:18 pm
No, indeed. They’re blaming it mostly on the economy. The wisdom of the American people certainly failed there. Or was it the economic management? Time will tell.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
Matthew.
I think Obama will get much more than 267 EV. I see him getting about 335.
California, 55
Oregon, 7
Washington, 11
Colorado, 9
Hawaii, 4
Nth Carolina 15
Florida, 29
These last 2 are close to call and could go either way. California, Oregon, Washington and Hawaii will take Obama well over the 270 EV he needs
November 5th, 2008 at 4:24 pm
I don’t know how they can call New Mexico when they’ve only reported 7% of the count, and the difference in votes is less than 2000 (less than 2%).
grain of salt required with that one I think.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Pearl Harbour.
The Twin Towers.
President Obama.
[DPF: Good God, I have more respect for the democratic choice of the American people. I'm not sure how good or bad Obama will be as President but really comparing him to terrorists and war enemies before he has even been sworn in]
November 5th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
4 years from now, whilst still in recession, Obamaniacs will feel disappointed the saviour didn’t bring them what they wanted.
Government can’t make things better, but will the Republicans sideline the nutty evangelicals and be a party of smaller government? Hmmm.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:35 pm
“t seems that Kiwi in America was wrong . . .”
Kiwi in Fairyland.
” Its never been any secret that under the influence of socialism, uneducated uncivilized knuckle dragging leftist barbarians are mulitplying in huge numbers in the US, and it is they who have brought Obama his “victory”.”
Rush Limbaugh’s parrot. Have a wee lie down and think about dog’s arseholes, Redsie. That always cheers you up.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Good grief Phil, you must really hate democracy.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:39 pm
Could be a long night.
North Carolina, Virginia, Indiana and Florida are still very close and so could tip either way.
And I am seeing different media calling some states differently.
But it does look like Obama is through … could be a big margin if the close states fall his way.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:40 pm
PhilBest (3443) Says:
“Pearl Harbour.
The Twin Towers.
President Obama.”
And this sort of thing, gentle readers, is why the Kiwiblog comments threads are a laughing stock to most but Kiwiblog commentors.
Grow up Phil for Christ’s sake! It’s not the end of the world.
(Or perhaps it is, in your strange, paranoid and hysterical worldview?)
November 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
“but will the Republicans sideline the nutty evangelicals and be a party of smaller government?”
What a cloistered idiot. Many such “evangelicals” are bigger supporters of small government than you are. Get the log out of your eye.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Google has it Obama 202 McCain 114 as at 4.40NZT
November 5th, 2008 at 4:42 pm
“And this sort of thing, gentle readers, is why the Kiwiblog comments threads are a laughing stock to most but Kiwiblog commentors.”
Another lie. Unless you’re talking about your braindead utterances that is.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:44 pm
Quite perceptive actually. The comment was shameful.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:47 pm
I’m calling Obama getting over 300 electoral votes
[DPF: Yeah at least]
November 5th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
# llew (851) Vote: Add rating 1 Subtract rating1 Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 4:38 pm
Pearl Harbour.
The Twin Towers.
President Obama.
“Good grief Phil, you must really hate democracy.”
No, I love America. They have a sad habit of being caught napping by their enemies. One of these days, it will be the last time. Then the rest of the world too, will find out that they should have been more careful what they wished for.
That goes especially for NZ and our dependence on world trade, too, by the way.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
“Its never been any secret that under the influence of socialism, uneducated uncivilized knuckle dragging leftist barbarians are mulitplying in huge numbers in the US, and it is they who have brought Obama his “victory”.
You really are the pits. A misanthropic moron. Haven’t you noticed where the blue states are you retarded nutjob?
November 5th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
Will the GOP end up as a religious party based in the bible belt only ?
Interesting that they have no house members left. in the North East .
Still one thing about it they can rely on the majority of voters in Utah to vote the way they are told by their so called elders.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:57 pm
By “enemies” you mean other Americans? Personally, I think they may have learned from the mistakes they made the last two elections.
Grumpy, they’ll rebuild. Probably with better quality candidates. The cycle will continue.
November 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
Don’t take it too bad Phil. McCain was a third rate dipshit anyway. In a way, I’m glad he didn’t win. Now that the smoke has cleared many others are much more aware of who the real enemies of freedom are- the mainstream media have overplayed their hand here, and will never again have the kind of influence they had in the past.
They are more of a target than ever now, and its clear to many more people that if there is to be any gains in the war against totalitarian socialism, the front line has to be focused on the propagandising left wing scum posing as objective reporters and journalists. The enemies of freedom are in our schools and our public institutions and in our media, and those three sectors are where the fight will be won or lost.
(read the comments on a few US sites- people are infuriated by the media’s pro-Obama bias and blame them for the loss. This will have serious repercussions, especially given the left’s intent to deal with freedom of expression)
November 5th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
DPF, any guesses at the final electoral college number for Obama?
Five Thirty Eight had Obama at 345ish this morning, which I think is probably a little high given how Virginia is looking. I’m guessing low to mid 330′s?
November 5th, 2008 at 5:00 pm
Mark Steyn:
“……In democratic systems, the people are free to screw up their own societies. An Obama victory would be a tragedy for this country and for the world. It would be a flight to fantasy and delusion, and a repudiation of the animating principles of America. It would also be profoundly unbecoming for the citizenry of a mature republic to vote for therapeutic fatuities like “hope” and “change”. But that is the people’s prerogative…..”
November 5th, 2008 at 5:02 pm
With a bit of luck, the Republicans will regain a bit of pride and self-belief once they’ve thrown out Bush & the rest of his failed clique, and then when they’re happy to take ownership of the “Republican” brand again this “GOP” nonsense will quietly vanish…
November 5th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
SO you DO hate democracy.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
Savour the moment! Just called for Obama!!!!! Woo hoo!
November 5th, 2008 at 5:03 pm
It’s been called….amazing
November 5th, 2008 at 5:05 pm
# PhilBest (3447) 1 2 Says:
November 5th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
Pearl Harbour.
The Twin Towers.
President Obama.
[DPF: Good God, I have more respect for the democratic choice of the American people. I'm not sure how good or bad Obama will be as President but really comparing him to terrorists and war enemies before he has even been sworn in]
OK, DPF, I wouldn’t do this for Ratbiter or Ilew, but out of respect for you, I apologise for that posting. I now hope your confidence is less misplaced than my pessimism.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:12 pm
Yes this is the finest moment for Obama’s supporters, they will learn that government can’t make things better.
Republicans face a stark choice – remain the party of the Bible belt and rural USA, or give up on the moralising crusade and actually practice what they preach. That means abolishing the Education Department, it means abandoning the failed war on drugs and pushing for fiscal prudence. Be helpful if the Republicans gave up fighting stem cell research, and turned their back on the inane “intelligent design” crowd and became what Reagan half made them to be – classically liberal small government advocates.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
It will be interesting to see how the Republicans react. Hopefully as Liberty Scott advocates.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
Don’t something like 60-ish% of Americans claim to believe in a literal interpretation of the Bible? That has proven an attractive flock for Bush’s lot to cultivate – will the Reps really dare to risk that with a move away from their “religious right” policies?
November 5th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
“Republicans face a stark choice – remain the party of the Bible belt and rural USA, or give up on the moralising crusade and actually practice what they preach.”
Reagan was as religious as anyone. What has to happen is that Hollywood style social liberals need to get over their intolerance of the Christian religion. People have a right to be religious if they so decide. Any real liberal would recognise that right, and not demonize those who so choose.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
HAHAH fuck you redbaiter take that, you loose.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:31 pm
[DPF: Good God, I have more respect for the democratic choice of the American people. I'm not sure how good or bad Obama will be as President but really comparing him to terrorists and war enemies before he has even been sworn in]
Mr. Farrar, he’s coming after the bloggers you know. The “Fairness Doctrine” as advocated by many influential Democrats will have serious repercussions on freedom of political expression, on television, radio, newspapers and the internet. You have campaigned heroically against the EFB here in NZ. Obama’s plans make that legislation look like kindergarten stuff.
Given the US’s previous regard for concepts such as freedom of expression, I can understand Phil’s disappointment and his frustration at what is coming. His attempts to equate it to a strike against the US by foreign hostiles is in a way not incorrect. Especially given the mystery surrounding the source of Obama’s massive overseas cash resources.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:33 pm
Redbaiter – Reagan was a theist who didn’t welcome the religious right, but conceded to them by giving GHW Bush the Vice Presidency – a man he personally disliked at the time. It was a way of unifying the party.
Yes of course there should be tolerance of religion. Who disagrees with that? However, too many in the Republican Party think church and state should NOT be separate.
It will be a great day when a major party candidate can state “I am an atheist” and get nominated. That is far more difficult than an African American, Hispanic or woman being elected. Religion should not matter. Sadly a good part of the Republicans make it matter, fortunately in NZ and the UK, this isn’t an issue in the National or Conservative Parties.
November 5th, 2008 at 5:47 pm
Time for the Republicans to bloody grow up and fight on the issues instead of idiotic values like five year children being armed for school.
Have a look at the McCain/Palin crowds and what does one see, a whiter shade of pale crowd.
They do not seem to get it that the USA is getting more coloured and chasing a smaller and smaller white working class who love guns and their bible is going to be a losing proposition.
November 5th, 2008 at 6:39 pm
Redbaiter, agree that many on the left are intolerant of the more overtly religious folks – but I also note that Obama was careful to display his church going credentials. America is, for better or for worse, a god fearing country. Not that they all worship the same god, but most believers find other believers (even those with different beliefs) easier to get along with than the non-believers.
Having said that, I do agree that the Republican party need to change somewhat. They’ve managed to become exactly the opposite of where I think they should be. They stand for big government, for government intervention everywhere, against immigration, against choice in most areas. They should stand for small government, for little government intervention other than in setting the rules of the playing field, they should support freedom whereever possible, including immigration and free trade.
The left, of course, remain even worse. But sometimes a period in the wilderness is what a party needs to rebuild – Howard losing power in Australia is a classic example. The question is whether the GOP can rebuild quickly enough to be contenders next time around, or whether we’re moving into a series of two-term presidents in the US, with changes of party each time. I reckon the economic downturn and the loss of his halo could leave Obama in trouble in the Senate in the mid-terms, and given his very left views, he’ll find it hard to work in an non-partisan way. Which could then turn into a very bad position for him next time around – depending on how the economy goes in the interim. Conversely, he may just turn out to have some substance to go with his rhetoric – he isn’t a stupid man, and he might get himself some good advisers.
November 5th, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Ive been on a flight – pretty gutted I must say but hey I’ll man up and admit I was wrong in my analysis.