More to suggest Labour thinks Field not guilty

October 19th, 2009 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

I was amazed that has refused to do the obvious thing, and apologise for their defence of convicted corrupt MP .

A friend suggested to me that this was because they still did not think he broke the law. At first I was dismissive, but as I checked their statements I found out they had never said they agree with the verdicts, and it remains an open question as to whether Labour thinks he did anything wrong, or broke the law.

Now to further fit the theory that Labour thinks Field is innocent, are these blog comments from Brian Edwards. Now Dr Edwards does not speak for Labour, is not an MP, and I am sure they are his honest opinion. But I find them fascinating as I suspect they do reflect a widespread common view in Labour. Some quotes:

I’m reasonably convinced that in a decade or less Philip Field will be seen to have been the victim of a major injustice.

Good God – are we going to have a free Taito campaign, as we had a free Bain campaign.

I spent several hours with Field a year or so back, going over all his documents. At the end, I concluded that the Field family’s crime may have been one of generosity. I suspect that we have not heard the last of this case.

Edwards also said:

“But the gain, it seems to me, was relatively small – he got some tiling and other work done”.

Now a Mark S replied:

That is really over-simplifing his crimes, almost trivialising them. It was a lot more serious than that. ‘Tiler’ Field actively set out to subvert the course of the police’s investigation by doctoring evidence and counselling witnesses to change their stories; in doing so, he was perverting the course of justice. This was not a case of someone getting tiling done on the cheap; it was a case of someone, who, egergiously, abused his ministerial position to offer enticements by way of an illicit quid pro quo, which strikes at the very heart of this country’s governance.

He’s cost the country literally millions $s, with the Ingram Enquiry and the High Court trial. I think he got off lightly.

And Dr Edwards responds:

Yes, if you accept the evidence. I have serious doubts. My view is that self-interested lying by his accusors and some enemies played a significant part in the verdict. We’ll see.

I’m amazed by this stance. There is documented evidence Field perverted the course of justice. Nothing to do with witnesses – his false invoices and receipts he drew up.

But this does make me wonder how many Labour MPs share the views of Dr Edwards. Is this why they won’t apologise for the defence of him by their then Leader and Deputy Leader? They think he did nothing wrong?

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59 Responses to “More to suggest Labour thinks Field not guilty”

  1. Auberon (873 comments) says:

    I’d like to see the gallery start asking that very question – do you think Phillip Field broke the law? – of Labour MPs in the corridors of parliament, on camera. Come on guys, do they or don’t they? You must surely be interested.

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  2. slightlyrighty (2,499 comments) says:

    So Taito used his position to get some tiling done, and Dr Edwards thinks that it’s OK because in his words, “the gain, it seems to me, was relatively small”.

    Could Dr Edwards please enlighten us as to what level of personal gain in return for favours granted constitutes corruption in his eyes? or it is OK to have just a little bit of corruption, so long at it stays at that level?

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  3. Blue Coast (165 comments) says:

    Come on Guys.
    Remember it is not about right or wrong with lefties just what can they get away with.

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  4. petal (705 comments) says:

    Headline: “More to suggest Labour thinks Field not guilty”

    Body text: “these … comments [come] from Brian Edwards. Now Dr Edwards does not speak for Labour, is not an MP, and I am sure they are his honest opinion. But I find them fascinating as I suspect they do reflect a widespread common view in Labour. Some quotes…”

    Sloppy.

    More accurate headline: DPF thinks Edwards’ comments may reflect suspected Labour view on Field innocence

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  5. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    Why the fuck are the media so gutless?

    Why can’t someone in the gallery go right up to a senior Labour MP and say “Why did you defend a corrupt MP”?

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  6. david (2,553 comments) says:

    Time to quote Trotter about “justifiable corruption”

    In the meantime can you hold the end of the string while I wrap up this bridge for sale, think I’ve found a buyer.

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  7. sheath (63 comments) says:

    It looks like Dr Edwards thinks that library’s holding copies of his books are more criminal than Phillip Fields!

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  8. chfr (126 comments) says:

    What Blue Coast said.

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  9. tvb (4,244 comments) says:

    Labour thinks Field is innocent, there is no financial crisis affecting ACC, the global recession is a hoax so that the National Party can use it as an excuse to sell off all Government assets, and there is no need to have spending cuts for the Government. The overall message coming out of the Labour Party is they are in fantasy land.

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  10. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    Actually david he called it “nobel corruption”.

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  11. gravedodger (1,528 comments) says:

    Slightly rightly 3.23 a bit like being a little bit pregnant.

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  12. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,830 comments) says:

    Now you know why they are heading to single digit opinion poll results and political oblivion.

    Long may the delusion continue.

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  13. LUCY (359 comments) says:

    Brian Edwards has never let the facts get in the way of what he believes.

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  14. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    I’m surprised to discover that Edwards is still alive. I remember his from TV in the 70s and 80s, but he was an old man then and I had assumed that he’d passed away while I was overseas for 18 years. Reading the referenced Edwards blog, he comes across as a NZ version of the Queen Mother… apparently indestructible, but living in a different world to the rest of us.

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  15. david (2,553 comments) says:

    Murray (3745) Vote: 1 0 Says:

    October 19th, 2009 at 3:56 pm
    Actually david he called it “nobel corruption”.

    Stay on topic, its not about Obama this time, perhaps “noble” as in “sacrifice for a good cause” fits better.

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  16. Swiftman the infidel (329 comments) says:

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Labour MPs and Labour voters are low class scum.

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  17. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    I can understand the tone as you are focused rightly on politics and one of the architects of one of the main players.

    I’d like to posit that whilst I agree with most of the comments here especially nickb & blue coast, an underlying issue is corruption of morals/values throughout the land. (wait lets not get precious here, read on)

    There is a sense (to me) within parliament, civil service and possibly the judiciary as to layers of blame (look at the Judge in Wanaka with the boys who, failed at burglary/robbery recently who got community service and the Billionaire drugs importer with his bribe to Oasis to mention 2).

    This is reflected within society at large as the impression (modeled so openly by our last Prime minister) that it’s ok as long as it’s not illegal and not worth worrying about if no one knows! (Almost as if it’s ok if you don’t get caught) ;-)

    Coupled with that is the sense of entitlement too, a superiority because of station or insider knowledge or who you know.
    The fact that many in the media have been suborned to the political process for their entitlements merely makes it worse as they aren’t hard arsed on this as they are compromised by affiliation.

    I have posted on this before and without being anal here, One of the most important things a leader does is sets the tone or models mode (behaviour) and that is also by which they allow or ignore.

    Helen Clark was in my opinion a person of contempt regardless of what I have read about her by the experts, her example over 9yrs to the weaker members of society and the young was atrocious :-(
    Sadly Key could be going down the same route and some I talk with are just calling it politics and so the circle goes around.

    Key could have held Clark, Cullen and Street (+the others) to account over the figures (the sanction was minimal). He could have drawn a line in the sand for both his side and theirs going forward.
    He hasn’t which with the way he has behaved towards the electorate since the election is confusing to some.

    I accept most things are grey but some are very definitely black and white.
    I fear it is because he is a compromiser not a man of principle, which is what we need right now after the last lot.

    Adolf’s last comment is probably right for Labour, which fills my heart with gladness:-)

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  18. Rich Prick (1,630 comments) says:

    ” … or it is OK to have just a little bit of corruption, so long at it stays at that level?”

    Well we do know that when you get up to $800,000 you will need retrospective validating legislation.

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  19. peterwn (3,211 comments) says:

    Probably par for the course for Brian. In 1998 – 99 Brian went into bat for this German overstayer who was subsequently deported. He really lambasted the National government over this on his Saturday morning National radio programme (he was effectively dumped from the show early 2000 – he was attracting too many possible defamation suits from which RNZ wanted indemnity). Despite rumblings from Labour / Alliance / Greens that they would let him back in if returned to power, it never happened for reasons that have never been disclosed.

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  20. Whaleoil (766 comments) says:

    Petal et al of the same ilk, you need to keep in the forefront off your incredibly tiny minds that Brian Edwards actually is one of the mouthpieces for the Labour party.

    He was and still is a close confidante of Helen Clark, he wrote her hagiography, he often flies kites for Labour on contentious issues and is a life long member of the liberal elite Labour party supporting media wonks.

    If Brian Edwards is saying this then Helen Clark is too, just like letters to the editor from Dr Peter Davis.

    When i see piece on Edwards “blog” that analyses why Labour has lost touch and it wasn’t all just a mistake by almost 50% and now almost 60% of the electorate he may then grasp some modicum of credibility. Meanwhile he simply defends a convicted corrupt Labour politician.

    The old saying is if you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas and so it is Brian Edwards staunch defence of Phillip Filed that now gives him the “fleas” of corruption, bribery and perverting the course of justice.

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  21. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    good point RP

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  22. jabba (280 comments) says:

    I thought Mr Edwards said would leave NZ if the Nats won the election, if so, how long does it take to pack for goodness sake.
    What a great poll .. Philin (not philu ,, shit, maybe they are one in the same) is still saying it’s the honeymoon affect . what a honeymoon.

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  23. davidp (3,556 comments) says:

    I found this (cached) Edwards blog column linked from Wikipedia. Edwards writes about how public library users are thieves and bludgers. He is generally pompous and ludicrous: “I was reluctant to approve you comment for others to read, Mark”. Hundreds of commenters slap him around so thoroughly that he ends up deleting the post from his blog: “Brian, I want to be polite, but really… This is the stupidest thing I’ve read on the issue of copyright ever”.

    http://74.125.153.132/search?q=cache:5H4CFBrXZaoJ:brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/09/why-public-libraries-are-just-a-form-of-theft/+http://brianedwardsmedia.co.nz/2009/09/why-public-libraries-are-just-a-form-of-theft&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=nz/

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  24. shaunwallis (44 comments) says:

    I had a long debate with Phil Goff last night about this particular matter when he came to speak at my Hall of Residence. He feels that he did not know enough about the situation at the time (bollocks in my opinion), and then he later stated after many questions from me [i.e. there is a massive difference between accepting a decision and approving of a decision, and why hasn't Labour stated that they approve of the High Court decision], and his response (again him not getting to the point) is that at the time, they did not think Taito had done anything hugely wrong.

    Whether or not that is material in light of modern circumstances, I’m not sure, but they were the key points that I clearly recall Phil Goff stating last night.

    BTW: The students that he spoke to last night in our hall were not overly impressed by him.

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  25. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    Not wanting to appear to be apologising for or spinning away TPF crimes, as I don’t doubt the verdict, BUT:

    (1) Edwards says “My view is that self-interested lying by his accusors and some enemies played a significant part in the verdict. We’ll see.”
    I would have thought the right-wing pack’s take on this would be one of “WTF? Show us what you’ve got Brian?” if facts were what we were interested in. The fact that you are saying “OMG look how evil those lefties are AGAIN!” says to me we are more interested in just hate-mongering again as usual?

    (2) Current Labour needs to legitimize itself by publicly backpedalling away from a stance of not condemning a criminal ex-member of the Party?
    Fair enough, I agree actually but when it is the right wing bloggies saying this rather than anyone in the left, it just looks like petty points scoring IMHO.

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  26. RRM (9,638 comments) says:

    Whaleoil et al of the same ilk, you need to keep in the forefront off your incredibly tiny minds that name-calling from potty-mouthed little turds like yourself will never hurt us, though sticks and stones may break our bones.

    “He was and still is a close confidante of Helen Clark, he wrote her hagiography, he often flies kites for Labour on contentious issues and is a life long member of the liberal elite Labour party supporting media wonks.”

    He’s a left-wing attempt at a copy of this institution then? I’m speechless. Sometimes it really astonishes me that Farrar keeps holding you up as some sort of shining example of the right-wing bloggies..

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  27. labrator (1,846 comments) says:

    Great link davidp, thanks. I have a new found opinion on Brian Edwards after reading that tripe and then realising he deleted it. I’d love to know if DPF has ever deleted a post from Kiwiblog but I’d suspect he hasn’t. Something to do with prinicples and standing by them. If Brian Edwards thinks he has something, then he should publish it. Oh and then accuse everyone who reads it in the library of stealing it.

    [DPF: I have never deleted a post because I regret it. I have deleted some on request of others, or for legal reasons. Even then not deleted, but hidden]

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  28. trout (918 comments) says:

    I am still waiting for someone to track down Damien O’Connor’s secretary; the one who ‘apparently’ did not pass on to Damien messages from the overseas immigration officers who suspected Field of dodgy dealings.

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  29. gravedodger (1,528 comments) says:

    Where is The fearless Trevor on this thread, calling New York for the bullet points. Come on in Trev the Mus, debate don’t hurt. Give us the take on what actually happened from where you sat.

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  30. bwakile (757 comments) says:

    Another snivelling socialist just doing what the do best – rewriting history to suit themsevles.
    History just ain’t what it used to be.

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  31. noodle (151 comments) says:

    Dr. Brian Edwards is not as clever as he wishes he was. In my considered opinion, he has harboured an intellectual inferiority complex for many years . Perhaps he has finally accommodated this problem by deciding that “bugger them all, I’ve been the oracle forever; if I say so, its bloody true”. The alternative is sadder.

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  32. starboard (2,489 comments) says:

    …Brian who ?….

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  33. Inventory2 (10,170 comments) says:

    “Dr” Brian Edwards; Phillip Ure “MA” – sheesh, I’m no longer worried that I have no academic letters before or after my name :-)

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  34. nickb (3,675 comments) says:

    I wouldn’t worry either IV2- would rather read your blog than his sneering champagne socialism any day of the week :)

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  35. gravedodger (1,528 comments) says:

    What nickb said, accept your decision IV2 but miss your take on things enjoy your thoughts here though as second best. Hope the work is good for your team.

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  36. Put it away (2,888 comments) says:

    I would like to be able to say “astonishing”, but no depths the left will sink to can astonish me any more

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  37. WebWrat (516 comments) says:

    RRM (1434) Vote: Add rating 0 Subtract rating 6 Says:
    October 19th, 2009 at 5:25 pm

    “Whaleoil et al of the same ilk, you need to keep in the forefront off your incredibly tiny minds that name-calling from potty-mouthed little turds like yourself will never hurt us, though sticks and stones may break our bones.”

    RPM, read what you wrote here and see if you can figure out why I think you are a typical, spontaniously denigrating, lefty wanker!

    god preserve us!

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  38. louie (91 comments) says:

    I was gob smacked by the self appointed liberal elite in the US defending Polanski. Now we have the same happening here! It seems the left believe they can do no wrong and that the rule of law is not meant to apply to their kind.

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  39. noodle (151 comments) says:

    Starboard, “Brian who? Steady on. If you are too young or uninformed to need an answer to the question, your comment is a waste of time.

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  40. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Is Edwards the full quid, every time I’ve seen him on the idiot box he sounds like he has a turnip stuck up his arse. I bet him and Trotts are related. The left will never admit any wrong doing, it’s a sign of weakness and it’s saying we made a mistake, socialists don’t make mistakes, only the weak and the right say sorry.

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  41. jabba (280 comments) says:

    where is philu eh, arrested eh???
    (jabbamissinghisbuddy.co.nz)

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  42. Murray M (455 comments) says:

    Field was a labour politician he can’t be guilty of anything. He’s also a darky so it was probably the white man’s fault.

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  43. dad4justice (7,967 comments) says:

    jabba ; I think Doctor Edwards gave phool a liarbour lickspittle corruption cookie that blew his head apart.

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  44. Murray M (455 comments) says:

    Or the fault of those despicable little Asians that his daughter seems to like much.

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  45. toad (3,672 comments) says:

    @d4j 9:05 pm

    Grow up, you moronic imbecile. If you want to post on any blog, at least debate an issue. Abuse doesn’t impress anyone, although I am tempted to throw some phil u’s way sometimes. Oh, and yours too d4j.

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  46. big bruv (13,552 comments) says:

    Toad

    When was the last time you debated any issue here?

    You used to a year or so ago, you were an interesting chap to have a chat with, you would sometimes even admit that you had changed your mind on the odd subject.

    So it is a real pity that in recent months you have done nothing apart from act as the Green party spin doctor, even when cornered you rush around trying to defend the indefensible.

    What does that tell us about the Greens?, are you guys really in that bad a mess that you are scared it will leak out?
    There really has been a change in your writting style, to me it seems that the pressure and internal warfare must be getting to you a bit.

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  47. dad4justice (7,967 comments) says:

    Go jump in the lake toad and take big blouse with ya.

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  48. reid (16,095 comments) says:

    RRM (1434) Vote: 0 18 Says:
    October 19th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
    Whaleoil et al of the same ilk, you need to keep in the forefront off your incredibly tiny minds that name-calling from potty-mouthed little turds like yourself will never hurt us, though sticks and stones may break our bones. “He was and still is a close confidante of Helen Clark, he wrote her hagiography, he often flies kites for Labour on contentious issues and is a life long member of the liberal elite Labour party supporting media wonks.” He’s a left-wing attempt at a copy of this institution then? I’m speechless. Sometimes it really astonishes me that Farrar keeps holding you up as some sort of shining example of the right-wing bloggies..

    I had to repeat the whole thing RRM because you’re so amusing.

    “though sticks and stones may break our bones”

    You do realise Whaleoil is a shy, gentle fellow who likes tiddlywinks and mahjong?

    As for the rest of it, why did you not once never ever so there, attempt in even a tiny weeny way to address even a weally weally widdle point let alone the substantive ones that he made in his post?

    Eh?

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  49. Rich Prick (1,630 comments) says:

    I think that this thread serves to confirm that Labour and its cheerleaders are made up of a corrupt bunch of self-serving and protecting liars. Retrospective validating legislation over $800k probably set the benchmark for the level of corruption that is acceptable to the left, some even described it as acceptable and courageous corruption to stop a National government being formed at the time.

    To that fat pinko Labour apologist, all I say is that you are fucking lucky that Labour is not being banned as a political party and every member being assigned a number and sent off to the gulags. I wouldn’t like that at all, it would be far to comfortable.

    I’d like to think that National would never have to validate any level of theft or corruption. I hope Key never utters the words National Minister X ” is only guilty of being helpful … move on, peasant”.

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  50. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    # Swiftman the infidel (43) Vote: Add rating 14 Subtract rating 1 Says:
    October 19th, 2009 at 4:36 pm

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. Labour MPs and Labour voters are low class scum.

    I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again. National MPs and National voters are upper class scum

    (I haven’t really but isn’t symmetry beautiful?)

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  51. reid (16,095 comments) says:

    Liarbore are screwed on this and you have to ask: why is Field able to command such loyalty?

    Does he have George Hawkins’ files?

    Liarbore are not stupid and they’re informed and the obviously smart thing for Liarbore to have already done long ago would be to cut and run.

    That course has been screamingly obvious for a long long time. So why haven’t they?

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  52. wreck1080 (3,799 comments) says:

    What do you expect from labour?

    Its their modus operandi.

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  53. starboard (2,489 comments) says:

    Starboard, “Brian who? Steady on. If you are too young or uninformed to need an answer to the question, your comment is a waste of time.

    oh noodle..get a sense of humour you silly little man..I can remember Brian from earlier days on Fair Go…now run along..

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  54. tvb (4,244 comments) says:

    Field had very able and experienced Counsel, and the Judge in imposing the sentence he did clearly thought he was guilty otherwise he might have imposed Home Detention if he thought the verdict might be unsafe. I suspect the Labour Party feels embarrassed by what has happened to Field and the effect it might have on their Pacifica constituency.

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  55. Russell Brown (405 comments) says:

    This would be the same Brian Edwards who recently lauded John Key? Who backed the wrong candidate in Mt Albert? I don’t think you’d find any Labour MPs’ voices raised in support of his belief that public libraries are a form of theft either.

    Honestly David, your premise is absurd. The more straightforward view is that what he wrote was his personal opinion. I seriously doubt it is a widely-held view amongst Labour MPs or party members. Field did, after all, stand against the Labour candidate last year.

    [DPF: Then why will no Labour MP come out and say we are appalled by what Field did, and we regret the defence of his actions put up by the former leadership.]

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  56. David Farrar (1,871 comments) says:

    On a more general note, I do wish people could debate the issue, and lower the vitriol towards Dr Edwards. It really is embarrassing. Disagree with his conclusions or his actions but leave the name calling for primary school.

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  57. MikeNZ (3,234 comments) says:

    Very sensible David.

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  58. david (2,553 comments) says:

    Hard to seperate contempt for his opinions from contempt for him as a person as, if the opinions are honestly held, contempt for the individual is the only conclusion.

    Mindless drivel should be called as such.

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  59. Mike S (231 comments) says:

    What Dr Edwards is saying seems to indicate a reluctance at best, and a total disbelief at worst, to entertain the idea that TPF was corrupt. I can understand this, but I think it displays a worrying sense that he knows better than the Courts. I’ve never seen evidence before that he does.

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