Is this a double standard, Joris?
This morning the Human Rights Commission kindly posted what action was taken following Paul Holmes’ “racial slur” of then Secretary-General of the UN, Kofi Anan – back in 2003. To put it neatly, Joris “informally mediated” (his words) the following to occur:
- 1. Paul Holmes and the station would write a personal letter of apology to Kofi Annan
- 2. Paul Holmes would offer to meet with the Ghanaian Association of New Zealand
- 3. The Race Relations Commissioner would be invited to address a seminar for radio hosts and production staff on race relations and broadcasting standards
- 4. Newstalk ZB would in general uphold the complaints it had received rather than contest them before the Broadcasting Standards Authority
- 5. Newstalk ZB would continue to look at ways to promote positive race relations in New Zealand through its programme of community support
- 6. Newstalk ZB would adopt a new policy for its staff, who were in a position to lead and shape opinion, that judgments based solely on race, colour or creed were offensive and would not be tolerated.
Given that the Commission and de Bres have said they have received a large number of complaints (250) about Harawira’s comments what action will the Commission seek from Hone Harawira and the Maori Party?
At the moment Joris has said the Maori Party need to distance itself from Hone. Joris says he will “aid and continue to monitor the situation”. Joris also says that Hone’s comment aren’t actually illegal under the Act -
Hmmm… is this what Joris said when Holmes was the culprit of a similar racial slur?
“It is a free country but people who have positions of responsibility.. should also exercise their responsibility appropriately.”
So, Joris, given that Hone is in a position of responsibility did he exercise that responsibility appropriately?
I’m looking forward to the following deal “informally mediated” by Joris:
- 1. [Hone Harawira and the Maori Party] would write a personal letter of apology to [Pakeha New Zealanders]
- 2. [Hone Harawira] would offer to meet with the [Leaders of the Pakeha community]
- 3. The Race Relations Commissioner would be invited to address a seminar for [Hone Harawira and the Maori Party (and any other MP)] on race relations
- 4. [The NZ Parliament and the Maori Party] would in general uphold the complaints it had received rather than contest them before [the NZ public]
- 5. [The Maori Party and Hone Harawira] would continue to look at ways to promote positive race relations in New Zealand
- 6. [The Maori Party] would adopt a new policy for its [MPs] who were in a position to lead and shape opinion, that judgments based solely on race, colour or creed were offensive and would not be tolerated.
While it is true that the Holmes case referred specifically to a broadcast, Hone Harawira effectively allowed for his words to be published when he told Buddy Mikaere to go to the media with them.
Is this a double standard? Not yet. I’m sure Joris is working hard behind the scenes… somewhere.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:01 pm
Boris de Breast working hard is the funniest thing I’ve read all day. Why do you think he got this job? He’s allergic to work.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
I think Doris de Blame is actively working to ignore the complaints. He is a waste of space.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Won’t happen. “Cheeky darkie” is just that much more racist than “white motherfuckers”.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
At the moment Joris has said the Maori Party need to distance itself from Hone. Joris says he will “aid and continue to monitor the situation”. Joris also says that Hone’s comment aren’t actually illegal under the Act -
Hmmm… is this what Joris said when Holmes was the culprit of a similar racial slur?
“It is a free country but people who have positions of responsibility.. should also exercise their responsibility appropriately.”
Since when did doing something inappropriate amount to being illegal? If there is any inconsistency then surely it is not in this statement you’ve cited?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:15 pm
Quick, buy a ticket to Havana, Boris. If you leave it too long, Pyongang might be the place left open for you, and it’s damn cold in winter.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:16 pm
I didn’t say that what Hone has done is illegal at all. I am merely trying to ensure that Joris does follow through in the same way he did with Paul.
With this comment from Joris
“It is a free country but people who have positions of responsibility.. should also exercise their responsibility appropriately.”
I was trying to remind him (and us) what he said about Holmes at the time.
Sorry to be confusing. I’ll amend later.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:20 pm
So far he looks to be consistent. If Joris follows through with Jadis’ suggestions he will have been consistent. Only if he doesn’t will he have been inconsistent.
Many jump in and criticise without looking at the facts.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:22 pm
Yes,
Cheeky Darkie – said in jest, in a light hearted way by a talk back host => many apologies and consequences
White Mother Fucker – said in seriousness, and meant seriously, by an MP => slap with a wet bus ticket
I definitely see the similarities, thanks for drawing that to our attention Jadis.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
Far be it for me to support michael laws on anything but that’s also another example of this useless halfwit making a big song and dance about alleged racism in one direction. Doris is a tool pure and simple! however let remember morons of his ilk also believe in pathetic things such as “positive discrimination” a delightful oxymoron that suggests that in HR where you have two people of equal abilities and one is a minority preference should be given to the minority. This practice is of course never carried out by any government department or entity….cough…TVNZ.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
I would have thought a broadcast comment, by a broadcaster, was entirely different to a private email published by the other party, not the sender.
If you all think the Race Relations guy has a role to play in opinions expressed in private emails I worry a lot.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
KiwiGreg -= you would have a point if Harawira hadn’t given permission for Mikaere to go to the media? That is effectively allowing broadcast.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I’ve been racially insulted, but have behaved with dignity.
Why hasn’t de Bres sent me my Race Relations Conciliation certificate?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
The PM and Leader of the opposition both say the comments were racist – (albeit to varying degrees) however Joris de Bres has said they’re not?
Q – If the last NZ PM had said comments were racist what would jellyfish Joris have done???????
November 11th, 2009 at 2:39 pm
How about his comments on a radio program Greg, can we hold him accountable for those?
November 11th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
Another irony – in today’s Herald.
Most of the Editorial pages are criticising Harawira for claiming his swearing etc was justified by the behaviour of the Pakeha colonisers of New Zealand.
Then the Herald carries Gwynne Dwyer’s story claiming the behaviour of the Muslim who murdered a dozen or so of his US army comrades was justified by the American wars in the Middle East.
November 11th, 2009 at 2:52 pm
Owen, Gwynne Dyer’s story certainly does not claim “the behaviour of the Muslim who murdered a dozen or so of his US army comrades was justified by the American wars in the Middle East”.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10608449&pnum=0
November 11th, 2009 at 3:05 pm
From the HRC website;
“The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act states that everyone has the right to freedom of expression, including the freedom to seek, receive and impart information and opinions. This freedom is limited by sections 61 and 131 of the Human Rights Act.
Section 61 of the Act makes it unlawful:
To publish or distribute written matter or broadcast words which are threatening, abusive, or insulting; or
To use such words in any public place or meeting; or
To use such words in any place in the knowledge that they were reasonably likely to be published in the media – being matter or words likely to excite hostility against or bring into contempt any group of persons in or who may be coming to New Zealand on the ground of the colour, race, or ethnic or national origins of that group of persons.
It is important to note that the use of threatening, abusive and insulting words must be likely to excite hostility against a particular group to be unlawful under this section of the Act. The right to freedom of expression in the Bill of Rights Act prevails if the words are simply offensive.
Section 131 of the Act makes it an offence punishable by up to three months imprisonment or a fine not exceeding $7,000 to excite racial disharmony where there is deliberate intent:”
just offensive – or exciting hostility ? – I suggest the latter
November 11th, 2009 at 3:25 pm
To me, a white man, ‘cheeky whitey’ seems so anodyne and would not even make me think twice, whilst ‘black motherfugger’ would stir up a hornets nest of black apologists.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:30 pm
I have sent a letter to the Human Rights Commission outlining my disgust with Joris’s response. I made sure I quoted “Mother Fucker” a few times to illustrate my point.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:32 pm
Cheeky Darky or White MoFo
I’m with PaulL 2:22 pm
Patrick Starr – Thanks for that.
Hone is both offensive and inciting, pity the email was a private communication.
However Joris needs sacking as he brings the office of Race relations into disrepute and does us all an injustice no matter our colour.
November 11th, 2009 at 3:35 pm
smarmy honky would be the equivalent of cheeky darkie and is offensive…
…but calling people who have raped the land and dispossessed his people white muthafuckas is the truth. would it have made a difference if he’d called them…white devils ?
i mean whats the more offensive word…white or muthafucka ?
November 11th, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Latest Tui Ad
Joris de Bres, one white mother fucker that works hard for all NZers,
yeah right!
November 11th, 2009 at 3:40 pm
They’d never go for it would they?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
On the subject of a double standard – take out the word ‘white’ and put in ‘brown’ and see what Joris and John would have said about it.
These people are pathetic and putrid.
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
November 11th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
This white trash pissed off honkie wants to give Joris and Hone a few you know what’s.Be nice Mr Demerit ?
November 11th, 2009 at 4:17 pm
There is only one press release I would like to see from de Bres and it goes along the following lines:
“I have decided that my position as Race relations Conciliator and my silly make work commission is a total waste of time. I call for the an immediate stop to this trough feeding silliness and hereby announce that New Zealanders are free to speak as they see fit without interference from busybodies like me and that, from now on, their only judge is the court of public opinion”.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:22 pm
“Section 61 of the Act makes it unlawful:
To publish or distribute written matter or broadcast words which are threatening, abusive, or insulting; or”
So to write insults is illegal?
My how thin-skinned we are!
No one has the right not to be insulted.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:23 pm
Hone is a screw up and a racist dropkick to boot but if this HRC clown De Bres puts his two cents worth in then I hope Hone turns feral. I really don’t get a flying fuck what Hone thinks of his fallow country men, seems to me the vast majority are playing into this racist’s hands. Hone is simply playing the old game of divide and conquer and has everyone frothing at the mouth for no good reason. Let the fool spout his hate, what pisses me off are these liberal suckholes like De Bres that run around beating their breasts and pretending that soothing words and a bit of penance will make it all go away. I prefer Hone, I don’t agree with him but at least he doesn’t pretend to be something he isn’t.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
Harawira and de Bres are classic examples of why NZ is fucked. All you tax paying whities are welcome in Australia so come and join us. Let the shitty little back water go bankrupt, then the brown motherfuckers will have to eat other. Non tax paying whities (ie, bludgers and malingerers) stay in NZ, you can be the entree.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:43 pm
Splendid advice, Murray M 4:28pm; Australia is great with plenty of opportunities to make money and be a great success, splendid climate, amusing people, a benign tax department with no actual staff and therefore no audits, a Government not run for the benefit of the few …(and they sort smart alec Maoris out very quickly, too)
As you say – let the silly Third World ‘offshore islands’ go bankrupt; it would serve NZers right!
http://www.nightcitytrader.blogspot.com
November 11th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
Hone is a harmless, deluded mummy’s boy currently supplying the masses with cheap entertainment. I’d worry though if he converted to Islam and developed pre-stress, post-stress, premenstrual, postmenstrual or “postal” syndrome.
November 11th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
Your not using a very good example with Holmes,.Of course Paul Holmes can’t even keep his own house in order! Just because his Kid flunked Rehab Holmes has know stopped the good people of NZ purchasing their favourite Cold &; Flu medicines!
So he put a Slur on Kofi Annan, Holmes in my view also put a Slur on the good people of NZ!
In my view anything Holmes says is to further his own career, not the good of NZ.
Fire enough ammo at de bres and he will have to come up with something. No doubt a good govt would save the taxpayer money and scrap the Dept?
November 11th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
When you look back Hones past “efforts” he is nothing more than a gang member in flash clothes, him and his spiteful witch of a mother have represented the evil and nasty side of the so called Maori freedom movement for a long time.
Hone was raised on a diet of hatred and we now see the true colours of the man as soon as someone applies any pressure, he will do it again there is no question of that , just when.
Hone seems prety comfortable with all the fruit that comes with the white mofos’ system, he just now thinks he is untouchable. Once a scumbag always a scumbag.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
Just disband all those junk government created commissions and tribunals (human rights, privacy, race relations, childrens, family, Waitangi tribunal etc). They are all completely useless, serve no purpose, have no authority, set no precedents, and are all made up with people who have an inherent bias (eg, waitangi tribunal). We live in a country that has a justice and legal system to handle any problem that these commissions “deal” with.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Cheeky darkie” is just that much more racist than “white motherfuckers
Yip, according to Joris de Bres, it is. de Bres has said at the time that he thought the “cheeky darky” comments were, quote
“insulting and belittling” . He further calls it a “racist slur. He was very careful not to say that the comments made by Hone Harawira were insulting, abusive, or belittling – merely offensive. According to the Human Rights Act, being offensive is not unlawful, whereas something that is insulting, abusive, or belittling is.
Basically de Bres is saying Harawiras statements were insulting, abusive, or belittling, but hes not going to do anything about it. de Bres is saying Holmes comments were offensive, therefore breaching the the toothless Human Rights Act, but he, as the commissioner, was happy to pass the buck.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
As far as I’m concerned both Honky Hating Harawira and Joris (as much use as tits on a bull) de Bres can piss off out of Dodge. I really don’t care now whether Harawira, or de Bres for that matter, apologise or not – I want them both gone!
This National Socialist government better start listening to the wishes of the people, or they can piss off too!
November 11th, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Great work DPF.
This just confirms what a hypocrite and waste of space de Bres is.
I see from the Human Rights Commission website that one of de Bres’s initiatives has been “monthly acknowledgments of individuals and organisations for positive contributions to race relations.” I wonder what acknowledgement he will make for negative contributions, such as that from Hone Honiwera, or have we already seen it in the acknowledgment that it is, effectively, freedom of expression?
de Bres’s double standards (e.g. re Michael Laws, Hone Harawira) tell me that he is not fit to hold the position of Race Relations Commissioner. What a pity he was reappointed in 2007 for another 5 years.
November 11th, 2009 at 5:33 pm
There are four people from different counties on the Empire State Building. One is Japanese, one is French, one is a NZ European, and one is Hone Harawira. They all want to throw something off the building that they have a lot of in their country. The Japanese guy goes first. He throws off sushi.
- There is a lot of sushi in my country.
Next is the French guy. He throws off a condom.
- There is too much love in my country.
Next is the NZ European. He throws off a bottle of Pepsi.
- There is too much CO2 in my country, so I’m told.
Next goes Hone. He looks around him and picks the NZ European up and throws him of the building and says:
- There are too many white m*****f*****s in my country.
Joris de Bres wags his finger….
November 11th, 2009 at 5:34 pm
mikeNZ – I dont believe it matters that it was an email;
Section 61 of the Human Rights Act makes it unlawful to use such words in any place in the knowledge that they were reasonably likely to be published in the media –
November 11th, 2009 at 5:49 pm
Speaking of double Standards, I wrote this over at the Standard where most commenters couldn’t see a double standard…
A lot on the left were quick to paint Melissa Lee as racist for insinuating that there were a lot of criminals in South Auckland and that hopefully the motorway would stop them from coming to Mt Albert.
She didn’t once refer to a race or a colour and was probably factually correct that there is a higher incidence of crime in South Auckland. the motorway part was just confusing and stupid
She was widely derided as being racist and even had students turn up to her speeches with pictures of her with swastikas painted on. I bet you a trip to Paris that none of those radicals for racial harmony will be seen harassing Hone at any of his events.
If Lee’s comment was held here as racist (and I can’t be bothered trawling through posts at the Standard and elsewhere to see if they were), then Hone’s comments are racist in the extreme.
Imagine Lee saying “The proposed new motorway will divert all those brown motherf**kers from South Auckland away from your suburb” and ask yourself if there is anyone in NZ (save the national front), who would cut her ANY slack at all.
—–
The responses so far seem to generally accept that Lee’s comments were obviously a racist dogwhistle and Hone’s “may have contained racial overtones”
November 11th, 2009 at 5:55 pm
hmmm ???
November 11th, 2009 at 6:13 pm
Sorry JMex you won’t see anyone give Hone a hard time at his meeting, if you were lucky enough to be allowed in if you are white , you would find Hone and the stand over boys lined up to hand out the bash, or worse still he would set his old crone of a mother onto you.
de Bres needs to be sacked as he has proven time and again how useless he is in the role, and how pathetic the act that he hides behind is, time for John Key to grow some nuts and clean this load of devisive crap up.
Funny how old Fecal Phil has been silent on this one?
November 11th, 2009 at 6:34 pm
de Bres has a long history in Marxist activism. It’s stupid how he could even be considered as Race Relation Commissioner in this country.
November 11th, 2009 at 6:52 pm
If Hone calling ‘my kind’ white motherfuckers who raped New Zealand is acceptable enough not to warrant censure from Joris then can I call Hone a dumb Maori who is raping New Zealand?
Perhaps Joris would care to comment, once he has pulled his head out of his arse.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Doris is a waste of space, time and money, along with the rest of the so-called “race relations” quango.
Bill.
November 11th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
well .. I hope you guys/gals above have officially complained about Doris (great name) .. I have and I will continue until the motherfucker is gone
November 11th, 2009 at 7:59 pm
J Mex said “Speaking of double Standards, I wrote this over at the Standard where most commenters couldn’t see a double standard…”
I’d go and comment at The Standard too, but they banned me for six months last week. The crime? Suggesting that “Eddie” was a Labour Party staffer! Thin skins all round over at that place. Sheesh – had I suggested that Eddie was one of the LP staffers who stole wine from the Press Gallery Christmas party last year (did the cops ever do anything about that?), I mightn’t have worried, but I didn’t. I didn’t even suggest that “Eddie’s” initials were JM.
Ah well; their echo chamber is alive and well when all dissenting views are suppressed.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
“The responses so far seem to generally accept that Lee’s comments were obviously a racist dogwhistle and Hone’s “may have contained racial overtones”
The paradox is easily resolved by asking Lenin’s question – “Who? Whom?”. In the marxist analysis you have a member of an oppressed group criticising an oppressor group – so it’s really not that bad. In Lee’s case it was the other way round so was inexcusable.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
I remember when an American called me a motherfucker by e-mail I was extremely upset, so I checked it out with somebody who lives in the States and was advised that it was a pretty innocuous term. I wonder if Honi Harawira has just picked up the expression from films and video or books and really like other Kiwis doesn’t know how innocuous it is. There is a lot of foolish thin-skinned folk around getting all steamed up over nothing I suspect. Personally I just ignore the guy as a politician pushing a barrow his constituents like. It is akin to the silly political posturing one can read at the Standard, Crusader Rabbit and Kiwiblog.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:36 pm
jcuknz .. it does seem to be a American saying .. I can swear like a trooper but until this week, motherfucker does nothing for me. Has anyone else noticed that many TV shots of Hone/John the racist, he does the hand signal thing, also an American gang thing. It’s about time the wanker grew up. he does the 3 finger shake whatever that is supposed to mean.
November 11th, 2009 at 8:44 pm
Joris de Bres is a staunch socialist and well known progressive. Further reason to eviscerate and dismantle the useless quango called the Race Relations Conciliator.
November 11th, 2009 at 9:35 pm
Patrick Starr
I guess it hinges on reasonable.
I don’t think that it is reasonable for someone to publish anothers private email to them without the permission of the sender.
But then I’m old fashioned
November 11th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
what’s the world coming
to when you can’t call a spade
a fucking shovel?
November 11th, 2009 at 9:44 pm
You seem to have missed the point made many times that Hone invited the recipient to take it to the media, much like a press release. So in no way was the email intended to be kept private.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
“Section 61 of the Act makes it unlawful:
To publish or distribute written matter or broadcast words which are threatening, abusive, or insulting; or…”
…its that snitch mikaere who should be charged cos he’s the one that published, distributed and broadcast the words of a private email
its not like hone was literally caught on air calling out the white muthafuckas who have been raping his land…
November 11th, 2009 at 11:36 pm
DPF: “what action will the Commission seek from Hone Harawira and the Maori Party?
Nothing … because you are wrong when you say … “Hone Harawira effectively allowed for his words to be published when he told Buddy Mikaere to go to the media with them.” Harawira did not tell Mikaere to go to the media.
But yes, Harawira is still a stupid racist plonker.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:40 pm
Just turn it the other way – had any (non-Maori) member of probably any party called Maori as a people “black motherfuckers” in a private email or any other medium, what could we expect to happen to them?
November 11th, 2009 at 11:44 pm
All of which begs the question, why do we have this cheeky lightly tanned darkie motherfucker as our “Race Relations Conciliator”?
And just what does a “Race Relations Conciliator” do anyway? Apart from handing out meaningless certificates to silly girls behaving badly and being an all round tougher, that is.
Jois, you being an semi-black motherfucker, raping the public purse, and being all puritanical with your politcally correct bullshit, perhaps you could help us out with our querries. Thanks.
November 11th, 2009 at 11:51 pm
MikeNZ – reasonable or not, my understanding is that unless you mark your email with ‘confidential’, ‘not for publication’ or ‘Private’ etc etc it’s fair game. and whether he gave permission or not is besides the point – as surely he expected such a contentious email to end up in the media;
“use such words in any place in the knowledge that they were reasonably likely to be published in the media”
therefore IMO he has broken the law and should be charged – (but there again he’s a maori and we all know there are two laws)
November 11th, 2009 at 11:54 pm
True, that title on him seems somewhat inappropriate really..
November 12th, 2009 at 12:09 am
Joris is a pathetic, useless waste of space. His position should be revoked immediately, oh that’s right, Key hasn’t got the testicular fortitude to make a decision about anything that might upset anyone.
November 12th, 2009 at 12:30 am
With regards to my comment at 5:21pm, Tariana Turia has now come out and referred to the email as “abusive”. Given the Human Rights Act notes that it “shall be unlawful for any person to publish or distribute written matter which is threatening, abusive, or insulting, why does de Bres refused to say the email is abusive? Is he buck-passing like he did with the Holmes “cheeky darkie” complaint?
November 12th, 2009 at 12:34 am
re:MikeNZ I don’t think that it is reasonable for someone to publish another’s private email to them without the permission of the sender
Harawira had this at the foot of his email: “PS and if you want to take this to the press, go right ahead”. That’s giving permission, I would have thought…
November 12th, 2009 at 12:37 am
‘cheeky darkie’, a
very noughties term for an
uppity negro
November 12th, 2009 at 12:39 am
before he bags folk,
paul holmes should have a look at
his own hook nosed self
November 12th, 2009 at 4:03 am
negative karma
is like water off haiku
dave’s hairy back
November 12th, 2009 at 4:06 am
sorry, didn’t mean
to talk in third person like
our mate redbaiter
November 12th, 2009 at 8:04 am
what would you call a fair skinned class of people who for hundreds of years have institutionalised racism by confiscating lands and writing laws to benefit themselves to the exclusion of the indigenous population ?
i call em cracka ass ballhead muthafuckas
November 12th, 2009 at 8:13 am
Thanks Dave
I didn’t read that bit.
Then he is fair game and needs to be fckd over by the Speaker and Joris.
Now that’s an oxymoron.
Patrick
you are so right, pollies and celebrities.
November 13th, 2009 at 12:48 am
“what would you call a fair skinned class of people who for hundreds of years have institutionalised racism by confiscating lands and writing laws to benefit themselves to the exclusion of the indigenous population ?
i call em cracka ass ballhead muthafuckas’
We won…you lost…eat that!
Which is what the Romans may have said to my British ancestors but I don’t really care as I don’t wallow in the past.
November 13th, 2009 at 2:08 pm
my ancesters beat the shit of each other for centuries .. the Jocks dealt to the Poms but didn’t finish off the job and then the Poms, with the help of the Campbells, really deal to the Jocks and to this day they don’t get on too well .. oh well, I got over it
November 13th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
Hey pollywog
Slow day at the Standard?
Get your (pasty white) trolling arse out of here son