Greens v Mana

May 4th, 2011 at 11:00 am by David Farrar

John Hartevelt at Stuff reports:

Green Party co-leader Russel Norman has attacked Hone Harawira’s new as a throwback to the last century.

Mr Harawira launched his new party in Auckland at the weekend but other parties have quickly distanced themselves from it, with both Labour and National ruling out a working relationship.

Mr Harawira, independent since he quit the Maori Party, has given his proxy vote to the .

At his party launch on Saturday, former Green MPs Sue Bradford and Nandor Tanczos spoke in support of the Mana Party. Ms Bradford could run as a candidate.

Dr Norman said “there might be a few votes” for the new party, but “maybe not a lot”. “I mean, who wants to relive the battles of the 1980s and 1990s? We’re in 2011 for God’s sake. We need a progressive force that actually deals with where we are now, not tries to refight the 1980s and 1990s.

I am not surprised that Dr Norman has swiped at the Mana Party. You look at the hard left policies they advocate, and it is pretty clear you are not going to get any National voters defecting to Mana. Hard to imagine the Phil Goff led Labour Party will lose too many votes either. The two biggest potential sources of votes are the Greens and the Maori Party.

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62 Responses to “Greens v Mana”

  1. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    Green Party co-leader Russel Norman has attacked Hone Harawira’s new Mana Party as a throwback to the last century.
    ………..
    Shouldn’t that be throwback to pre European times ?

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  2. jaba (2,095 comments) says:

    Norman Russell is a throw back to the 1800′s for goodness sake.
    Hone was VERY clear that he gets on with the Greens and will work with them .. oh oh

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  3. Peter (1,662 comments) says:

    It’s the battle of the throwbacks.

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  4. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    I predict “indigenous eco socialism” will go the way of the Moa*.

    * which incidentally was not killed off by Maori

    “The other MPs except for Tariana and Metiria, trotted out all the favourite myths about “they killed the moa” etc”
    http://www.greens.org.nz/misc-documents/diary-debacle-archive-6th-september-15th-september

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  5. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    If Hone and Wussell were put in a room with softball bats to fight it out who would win?

    New Zealand.

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  6. coge (179 comments) says:

    This Mana party splits the far left nicely. The main issue will be if Hone wins his seat. However you look at it bad, bad news for the NZ Greens.

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  7. Manolo (13,514 comments) says:

    A green dinosaur, an ornithomimosaur, against a carnivore one, a tyrannosaur.
    In either case, it will be fun to watch and very good to see a further split of the left vote.

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  8. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    Anyone who wants to discuss the moa should drop Mt Bruce where a very nice AV presentation will detail the impact Maori had on the natives wildlife leading to extinsion of over half the species.

    You can also see some of the orgional routed signs I made and my excellent track making.

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  9. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    No. 4 on Green Party list Says:
    “Quite a few submitters also raised the idea of co- or joint-management of the foreshore as an alternative to Crown ownership. Jane West and Ngati Whatua put up an interesting model of how that might look. Others have made similar suggestions. Co-management is a very significant gift to the public and the Crown, if it was generally agreed by Maori to take that approach. There is some real advantage in it as a model, but only with real recognition that such a model accepts that Maori are settling for a lesser interest than they are entitled to.
    When looking for Wai 262 websites, I came across this comment from Syd Jackson, in answering a question “Is it possible to relate the growth of the Maori movement to such processes as the Wai 262 claim?”
    He replied: “… The Wai 262 claim, or the flora and fauna claim, is a reaffirmation by us of the right of tino rantatiratanga. We have the right to protect the flora and fauna within each of our tribal boundaries.
    http://www.greens.org.nz/misc-documents/diary-debacle-archive-6th-september-15th-september

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  10. KevinH (1,147 comments) says:

    Hone is running out of potential coalition partners who are being scared off by policy announcements. Now that the Greens have indicated that they are not interested it becomes a case of Hone getting egg on his face.
    Also by not resigning from parliament as stated at his Mana party launch his credibility as a force in Maoridom is considerably diminished.
    In the lead up to the November election Hone will find that support for him will fall off, particularly since he failed to secure funding by not filing an application in time, thereby making it more difficult for him to get his message out.

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  11. gravedodger (1,528 comments) says:

    @ murray 11 18 only if it is really well built room and the door remains locked from outside.
    An abruptly interrupted wail, “gimme back my b…..”

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  12. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    Co management inaction:
    Iwi elders stop autopsy on washed-up orca
    http://www.whakatanebeacon.co.nz/cms/news/2010/06/art10007255.php

    Eugenie Sage says

    It could be EXCEPT THAT we understand that Ngai Tahu and the Akaroa taiapure management committee are moving quickly to have the taiapure which covers 90% of Akaroa Harbour extended to cover the Dan Rogers area without public consultation.

    Legally you cannot have a dual regime over the same area of sea space i.e. a marine reserve and a taiapure because they are established and managed under different legislation. (A taiapure is a fisheries management tool under the Fisheries Act). If Ngai Tahu is successful in extending the taiapure, it would then be impossible to re-apply for a marine reserve. You can write to Fisheries Minister, Phil Heatley asking him to not extend the taiapure.
    http://blog.forestandbird.org.nz/sea-change-yeah-right/

    The application for a marine reserve near Dan Rogers Bluff in Akaroa was first
    presented in January 1996, by the Akaroa Harbour Marine Protection Society.
    The main objections raised were around the effects of a reserve on recreational
    fishing, and the loss of customary fishing and mana to local tangata whenua.

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  13. m@tt (605 comments) says:

    “The two biggest potential sources of votes are the Greens and the Maori Party.”
    Actually the turnout in Te Tai Tokerau last election was only about 60% so the biggest potential source would be the thousands that didn’t vote.

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  14. s.russell (1,580 comments) says:

    Mana is focused on issues of the past? How about the Labour Party?

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  15. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    be fair s.russell, labour is looking at the past but they certainly are not “focused”.

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  16. big bruv (13,548 comments) says:

    I suspect this is all a result of John Hatfield’s attack on Wussell Norman earlier in the week, it seems that Comrade Wussell has decided to hit back.

    All of this is great news for those of us who cannot wait to see the Greens booted out of the house, given the choice between Hatfield, Bradford and Sykes or the Greens I would go for Hatfield and co every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

    Don’t get me wrong, I detest both parties with an equal passion, however, at least with the Mana party you know what they are all about, they are open in their goals and policies, the same cannot be said for the Greens.

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  17. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    Maori Narcissism:

    Māori Role in Aotearoa/New Zealand
    Defined by tikanga (our laws)
    derive from a world view that we inherited from our ancestors
    rooted as much in the spiritual aspects of this world as the physical.
    based on underlying values which include
    Mana – authority, power, control, ownership, status, influence, dignity, respect all derived from the gods
    Tapu – sacredness, spiritual power or protective force
    Whanaungatanga – kinship, relationships through genealogical bonds
    Kaitiakitanga – inherited responsibilities to take care of all our natural resources including our lands, waters, seas and other taonga
    Rangatiratanga – chieftainship including sovereignty, rights of self-determination, self government, authority and power to make decisions and own and control resources.

    6. Our tikanga determines that :
    We are tangata whenua – we are the hosts for all who visit this country (and hence need to determine immigration policy)
    We have a duty of manaaki manuhiri – we are obliged to look after our guests and ensure they are well-treated and respected.
    And if they decide to stay then they need a good understanding of our tikanga so that we can all live here in harmony.
    We also need a good understanding of our guest’s tikanga so that we know how to look after them properly.
    Pākehā settlement and introduced legal system has not and can not change these fundamental values and principles but it has made it very difficult for us to carry out our responsibilities.

    Margaret Mutu Nghati Narcissists

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  18. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    “I suspect this is all a result of John Hatfield’s attack on Wussell Norman earlier in the week, it seems that Comrade Wussell has decided to hit back.”

    Softball bats, can’t say it often enough.

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  19. Longknives (4,671 comments) says:

    Murray- Ask most Primary School kids in New Zealand, they will tell you they’ve been ‘taught’ that Maori are the “Guardians of the Land” and lived at one in a beautiful utopia with nature before the evil White Man arrived and burned everything. History is being re-written with an astonishing bias, and I’m afraid there isn’t a lot we can do about it.

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  20. peterwn (3,204 comments) says:

    Seems to me that there is a hiccup somewhere which unless resolved could leave Hone up the creek without a paddle. Perhaps it is the small matter of rounding up 500 members. He needs the Mana Party up and running by the date nominations close and I suspect there would be logistical difficulties with this. The proposed logo needs to be advertised for public comment and there may be other things that cannot be done in a flash. And in this sort of exercise things can turn to custard very quickly. I think he will stay put despite having a crappy office and a seat in the Wop Wops of the House (just in front of Chri Carter)..

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  21. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    “Hard to imagine the Phil Goff led Labour Party will lose too many votes either. ”

    Not too sure about that. Hone’s straight up bloke image will appeal to a lot of working class people. For this reason alone, both National and Labour will shed plenty of votes to Mana. NZers aren’t actually that averse to socialist policies either – i.e. the alliance received 18% of the vote in 1993. Be very worried kiwiblog right!

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  22. Inventory2 (10,166 comments) says:

    There are two explanations for this. Either Norman has suddenly realised that Bradford will be pitching to the same hard-left constituency that he is, or he’s trying to divert attention away from those who are concerned with his close relationship with the USA, as revealed by the Wikileaks cables.

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.com/2011/05/is-russel-getting-worried.html

    In any event, having both the Greens and Mana poll under 5% in November and having neither win any seats would be the dream outcome :-)

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  23. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    Here’s someone whose been through the education system:
    “Nadine Says:

    January 7, 2011 at 11:48 am

    If you read this book doesn’t say “Maori are greater conservationists than non-Maori”. You should perhaps view statistics, such as when colonial powers from Europe came and destroyed 90% (+ or -) worth of native forestry, to make way for farming which eventually polluted the lakes, streams and drinking waters upon which many Maori depended on for their livelihood. Moa and “giant birds”, seals, especially whales died from lack of habitat and over hunting which destroyed when non-Maori settlers came in circa 1800s. Maori and other indigenous cultures TRADITIONALLY take what they NEED, not what they WANT. This is the difference between indigenous streams of protocol, and Western materialism. I suggest one reads more statistics, studies 6+ years at a tertiary institution on this topic and then keeps one’s opinions or “assumptions” to oneself unless it is positive or constructive to the general public and society rather than divisive and negative.”
    http://envirohistorynz.wordpress.com/2010/08/18/kaitiaki-maori-and-the-environment/#comment-226

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  24. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    Longknives what our chuildren are taught and the facts are not compatable. The presentation makes it clear that the arrival of the settlers was a holocaust for the inhabitants of New Zealand.

    those foriegn settlers were Maori who brought dogs, rats and disease with them. No efforts at any sort of conservation were made untill the second wave of settlement. the evil white man.

    The alternate story is a fairy tale.

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  25. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    IV2 – my first impression is that Norman is looking to position the Green Party to the right of Mana – as they do not have a safe seat and need to get over the 5%. They can’t do that if they’re seen as occupying the same space as Mana. Anyhow we’ll see.

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  26. Kimble (4,405 comments) says:

    As you expect from parties of the hard Left. The me-me-me, self-centred douchebags that gravitate towards the hard left-wing just dont work well with others of their kind, so the groups end up splintering into pieces after a while. In the end only a strong, brutal leader can bring them all together (read: murder enough opponents) for them to get power, and thats no good for the rest of us.

    Thats why hard left political leaders are mostly psychopathic, murderous scum-bags.

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  27. Murray (8,841 comments) says:

    “IV2 – my first impression is that Norman is looking to position the Green Party to the right of Mana”

    You mean about where Stalin and Lenin are?

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  28. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Kim – so who are the ones that are advocating a one-party Stalinist state again? Who’s the douchebag again?

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  29. RRM (9,630 comments) says:

    LET THEM GO RUSSELL.

    Greens should position themselves as a more centre environmental party, not an environmental + leftie social policy party imho.

    I can’t understand why environmentalism needs to be politically partizan.

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  30. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    If you follow green ideology there are intelligent threads based on solid ideas about limits to growth and sustainability (there was a lawyer on the Peak Oil Forum who was brilliant). Unfortunately a restaurant is only as good as its chef and at its inception the reds (out in the open after the fall of the Soviet Union) ran for cover- hiding under bushes.

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  31. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    RRM -because there is a holistic philosophy to the Greens. Most believe that our status-driven culture, which is predicted on a linear philosophy, is out of whack with reality, which consists of mutually interdependent cyclical systems. We just need to be a but more realistic about the way we live, and drop the idea of ever-faster and indefinite economic growth. It’s just not an idea that’s based in reality. Because of this, far from being the loonies, the Greens are the sane ones. I guess their realist counterparts, scientists, were burned as witches at one time in history as well ….

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  32. thedavincimode (6,589 comments) says:

    “Mana is focused on issues of the past? How about the Labour Party?”

    Well actually, I immediately thought of the luddites themselves.

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  33. Viking2 (11,242 comments) says:

    MAF rules are that small fish should alwys be thrown back.

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  34. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    The best way to achieve this, in my view, would be to tie an MP’s salary to full-time minimum wage, and have them live in a standard state house. All assets would have to be divested but the MPs would be looked after with a pension which is also tied to full-time minimum wage – that way their financial security is not a question going in to the future, and corruption is not a problem because it will be obvious that they have been up to no good if they start really living it up at any time. Being a representative of this fine country is no longer seen as a privilege and a high honour – but a vehicle of self-aggrandisement. It’s sick and it needs stop.

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  35. Bevan (3,965 comments) says:

    If you are that desperate to live in a communist country I will stump up the cost of an air fare to North Korea.

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  36. magic bullet (776 comments) says:

    Bev – if you think that’s advocating communism, ill stump up the cash for you to to get the crayon removed from your brain.

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  37. m@tt (605 comments) says:

    “As you expect from parties of the hard Left. The me-me-me, self-centred douchebags that gravitate towards the hard left-wing just dont work well with others of their kind, so the groups end up splintering into pieces after a while. In the end only a strong, brutal leader can bring them all together (read: murder enough opponents) for them to get power, and thats no good for the rest of us.”
    Whilst I agree with your general sentiment I would point out that replacing the word ‘left’ with ‘right’ would leave your comment just as accurate.

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  38. redeye (632 comments) says:

    Stuff ‘advertises’;

    Hone Harawira will square up for a debate with the new ACT Party leader Don Brash tonight.

    The breakaway MP has meanwhile been forced to push back his controversial resignation from Parliament until next week.

    Harawira is set to appear on TVNZ’s Close Up show tonight to clash with Brash.

    Hopefully the lightweight Walrus will keep his mouth shut for a reasonable period.

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  39. David Garrett (6,708 comments) says:

    Bevan: why did you respond to the fool? He was clearly getting more and more distressed that no-one had!

    This is SUCH good news…the extreme left and the racists fighting for that end of the spectrum’s vote…A week sure is a long time in politics…

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  40. David Garrett (6,708 comments) says:

    redye: that will be worth watching! I did a couple of on air debates with Hone…until he decided that for some strange reason if I was to be on the panel he had other engagements…(Immodest but true….)

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  41. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    I welcome this statement by Russell. If Hone manages to attract even a few thousand of the Greens hard left supporters they could be in real trouble, and I welcome that because they will have to moderate the left wing crap and focus on the environment.

    I want to vote for a party that has a commitment to a sustainable future, but I will not vote for a party that uses the environment as a trojan horse for left wing social ideology.

    National will most likely begin to really screw up our environment after next election and there needs to be a rational and dedicated response to it, we can’t let ‘Fats’ Brownlee wreck the place so the Greens have some thinking to do.

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  42. Rex Widerstrom (5,327 comments) says:

    What’s that I hear? “Gwive me bwack my nawwowing niche! Gwive me bwack my niche, dwammit!!”

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  43. Nookin (3,176 comments) says:

    Hone got flustered in the interview with Guyon. I suspect that Brash’s logic will undermine Hone’s equilibrium as well.

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  44. Shunda barunda (2,966 comments) says:

    No Rex, you just have sh!t leaking out your ears again.

    You are hearing impaired son!!

    Shazzamm!!

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  45. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    If Toad is right, and the Green polling shows that most of their support is trendy urban liberals, not poor and downtrodden, then I reckon Mana are going for a different vote. I suspect that vote is largely still with Labour – Toad was reasonably convincing. If Mana pull, say, 4%, I’d say 2% of that came from Labour, 1% from Green and 1% from Maori. Or maybe 2% from Maori, 1% Labour. It will push the Greens closer to 5%, but they’re higher than normal due to all the disaffected Labour voters.

    My pick (not because I like this outcome) is that the Greens would come in just over the threshold – 5.6% or thereabouts, Labour low – say 30%, Mana @3-4%, Maori very low on party vote, big electoral overhang.

    Worst possible situation – it turns out that Mana is contesting party vote, Maori the electorate vote, and the Maori Party supporters are smart enough to vote split (Mana party, Maori electorate). That’d give them a big overhang, and also that’d call into question our current constitutional arrangements – i.e. the Maori seats.

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  46. hj (6,682 comments) says:

    Because of this, far from being the loonies, the Greens are the sane ones. I guess their realist counterparts, scientists, were burned as witches at one time in history as well ….
    ………
    Currently welfare policy is based on the notion that there is one answer to everything: greater equality. Only the rich need to change.
    and
    Aotearoa also needs to be decolonised becoming browner and more multicultural: we can’t persuade you so we’ll try to change you.
    New Zealand needs filling up… “Anti immigration sentiment has no place in the Green Party says Mr Locke” when we are fill the bell will ring. The Green Party doesn’t appreciate the flower garden.

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  47. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Where the National and ACT do an Epsom and this is OK but if Maori do it it brings the electoral system into disprepute?

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  48. David Garrett (6,708 comments) says:

    PaulL: I think that’s a pretty good analysis actually…and you say it came from that toad chap??

    but with regard to your last sentence (about our constitutinal arrangements) I’d have to agree with SPC…

    But back to Hone/Brash….I predict Brash will quietly and politely make a complete fool of the racist…or more likely still, that he is suddenly unable to appear…

    He’s been known to simply not turn up for TV debates without any notice or reason being given…

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  49. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    David/SPC: ACT used a loophole created for that purpose – win an electorate seat, hold the vote. That’s different than deliberately vote splitting.

    Take a different example. There was talk of splitting National into an electorate party and a “rural” party. The rural party campaigns only for electorates, gets no party votes. National campaigns only for list, no electorates. Net result, massive overhang. This would be hard – electorates are quite diverse, so not that easy to dominate – and would be frowned upon.

    The Maori electorates, however, are much less diverse – there is a common interest and a self selecting group of people who care enough to move themselves to the Maori roll. Much easier to dominate, and much easier to vote split.

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  50. jaba (2,095 comments) says:

    Guyon did have Hone a couple of times on the weekend .. Hone once said that he didn’t give a shit about the economics and he will no doubt indicate that again v Brash. Will watch with interest.

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  51. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    The issue was not winning the electorate but National aiding ACT in doing so, that has brought calls for a review of how MMP is set up to prevent large parties assisting a potential coalition partner in this way.

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  52. David Garrett (6,708 comments) says:

    Jaba: “dont give a shit” in Hone speak can mean lots of things…in that case I suspect it means “I am too lazy to learn that honky stuff and I dont need to as long as yous keep paying”

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  53. Nookin (3,176 comments) says:

    “If Hone and Wussell were put in a room with softball bats to fight it out who would win?

    New Zealand.”

    The baseball bats — please?

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  54. PaulL (5,977 comments) says:

    SPC: wasn’t aware that was an issue. I don’t see that National “helped” – each voter made a choice to give their vote to Rodney. Sure, National indicated that (nudge nudge, wink wink) it would be helpful to have a coalition partner to the right, and our electorate candidate is safe without winning this.

    I still see that as very different than an active campaign to create an overhang. What National did is not giving the right more members than they got votes for (ultimately they ended up with National’s 42%, and ACT’s 4%, or whatever the numbers were). Under my hypothetical Maori Party / Mana Party tie up, the Maori vote between them gets the 7 Maori seats + 4% of the votes = another 6 seats. But their list vote only entitled them to 6 seats total, not 13 – it’s a disproportionality.

    I guess that’s at the heart of my concern – the difference between using a loophole so as to get in even though you’re below the 5% threshold (and a loophole created specifically for that purpose), v’s using a loophole to create a disproportionality – getting more seats than your list vote entitles you to, actively creating an overhang.

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  55. thedavincimode (6,589 comments) says:

    I think Hone understands economics very well which is why he has conned that rag-tag bunch of losers into hooking up with him and why he is trying to curry favour with the hard left; a place that Hone hasn’t really been previously.

    If you recall, the green gargoyle said at the outset when Hone decided to formally go solo, and she fluttered to him like a moth to a candle, that this would be a maori issues party and it did not appear that there was room for non-maori. Now she is being touted as a candidate.

    So what has happened in the intervening period? Was it an economics lesson from Mrs Hone that made Hone realise he better somehow hang on to a seat in parliament? Perhaps it was something like: “Now look what you’ve done Hone. What will we live on? You better keep a seat in parliament Hone or I will be sending you STRAIGHT down the road to get a job. Don’t you think that you are going to lie on that couch all day watching TV Hone, or posing with your mates down the road, or showing off to all those young fellas who don’t know what a big useless lump you are Hone. Because if you are, then you are in for a BIG surprise Hone.”

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  56. Batman (103 comments) says:

    PaulL: You are right, it is a disproportionality which was tackled by the 1986 report ‘Towards a better democracy’. To avoid this happening, it was proposed that if MMP was adopted, then the Maori seats should be abolished as they system would provide ample representation for Maori peoples.
    Unfortunately for MMP, the political masters didn’t want to be seen to get rid of Maori seats, so here we are with a significant disproportionality which should have been fixed in the mid-90s!!

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  57. Inventory2 (10,166 comments) says:

    Russel Norman has backed down; this, from his Facebook page:

    Russel Norman
    Sorry, I overly personalised my critique of the Mana Party in the DomPost. I was asked about whether they are a threat to the Green vote, which I don’t think they are. I was trying to make the point that there is an important political distinction between the old left and the greens but this came across as overly personal. My apologies. As I said on Backbenches last week, I wish them luck

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  58. rosscalverley (111 comments) says:

    The Financial Transaction Tax touted by the Mana Party was originally adapted by Kelvyn Alp for the party DDP in 2004 for the 2005 General Elections. (And he has proof of this) He has carried that policy into the OURNZ Party (going through formal registration).

    Kelvyn approached Hone Harawira via Hone’s relations seeking to unite minor parties with similar aims. Hone asked for 1) the OURNZ Party policies (available at http://www.ournz.net/) to see if there were areas of agreement and 2) Mike Tamaki to call him. This was done and contact ceased.

    His application of the Transaction Tax is inappropriate and will raise prices.

    The original policy: Taxation rates are too high, meaning that companies are at a disadvantage when competing for foreign investment, business on the world stage and for real growth.

    The solution is a 1% Transaction Tax on all outgoing financial transactions. The tax will replace ALL other taxes including many “hidden” taxes. Software programmed into RBNZ’s electronic clearing system will state daily transactions of the banking system, meaning implementation will be simple. Calculated on total transacted amount per annum, a tax of 1% will provide the Government with sufficient operating revenue.

    Some think it would negatively affect the economy. This is a false notion and it will have a beneficial effect on the economy through being able to tax money that is now untaxed. This solution will bring prosperity, increases in employment and less dependence on the State.

    Money was intended to distribute goods and services at an agreed value. Money was never meant to be a commodity. The solution is not to tax the real wealth of this country (labour, resources, business etc), but rather to tax how wealth is distributed. With no income tax, nor GST to pay, everybody will effectively have a pay rise.

    So, the only Party that understands the application of the policy properly is OURNZ Party and we shall be campaigning on this and other policies this year. Join us on the OURNZ Group discussion page on Facebook!

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  59. SPC (5,472 comments) says:

    Paul, there are already split votes occuring, they are an allowed for part of the MMP system.

    People vote ACT in Epsom and party vote National. People vote United in Ohariu and then party vote National or Labour. People voted Anderton in Sydenham and then party voted Labour. Maori vote Maori Party in the electorates and then party vote Labour or National. This can result in a slight overhang.

    The only ones orcestrated appears to be on occasion in Ohariu and recently in Epsom – where National voters were encouraged to do so. And this is why some (from both those oppose and support MMP) seek a revision on the exemption for parties winning an electorate seat from the 5% threshold.

    If Maori Party electorate voters vote Mana Party on the party list this is no change from them party list voting Labour or National at the moment. It just reduces the Labour party list and National party list total and increases the Mana List total (but based on the number of Maori electorate voters there could be only a 1 or 2 seat impact and virtually none on the overhang extent).

    If this is problematic for enough people, then the impact won’t be on oppostion to the Maori electorate seats continuing or not but on the design of MMP – ending the exemption from the 5% theshhold for parties winning an electorate seat.

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  60. thedavincimode (6,589 comments) says:

    I2

    A clear implicit acknowledgement that the melons are not only left, but perceive themselves as the new left.

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  61. Lee01 (2,171 comments) says:

    “Hone’s straight up bloke image”

    You dont know many straight up blokes do you magic.

    “I guess their realist counterparts, scientists, were burned as witches at one time in history as well”

    No, they werent. Not big on factual history either it would seem.

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  62. reid (16,085 comments) says:

    [Wussell says...] Sorry, I overly personalised my critique of the Mana Party in the DomPost. I was asked about whether they are a threat to the Green vote, which I don’t think they are. I was trying to make the point that there is an important political distinction between the old left and the greens but this came across as overly personal. My apologies. As I said on Backbenches last week, I wish them luck.

    Awwwwwwwwwwwwww.

    Isn’t that weally weally nice. What a gweat big apowogy fwom Wussell.

    So let’s see. We have an outflanking Hone party on the left of the hard-left previously occupied by the commie wing of the Greens who appear to now call themselves the Hone party. Same things, different name brand.

    Plus we have an outflanking Hone party on the left of the hard-left previously occupied by the fantasy wing of the Maori party: i.e. Tama Iti et al.

    You can see where this is going.

    A party of fantasists who claim to fight for nothing less than a worker’s paradise and promise nothing less than to give back the entire country to its rightful owners.

    How many mentals are they gonna get, is what I want to know. So far their leading mentals are in place, with leading academics like Ringinui Walker and commentators like Willie Jackson and advisors like Annette Sykes and organisers like Matt McCarten.

    Not forgetting the behind the scenes leading mentals, who for some reason rarely appear during the day, like Hone’s mum. The games afoot. The play awaits.

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