Barbarism in NZ and Canada

January 31st, 2012 at 4:18 pm by David Farrar

In my blog at Stuff I blog:

I doubt I was the only person upset and angered at the story of the 17-year-old girl in Wellington whose parents tricked her into a forced marriage. She was imprisoned at home for several months, until she escaped.

Her parents have gone back to Pakistan, but the father is reported to have said he would kill her if he saw her again.

Sadly this can’t just be dismissed as hyperbole. has just had a conclusion to a trial in which a father, with help from other family members, killed his three daughters and one of his wives. This was a so-called “honour” killing. Of course honour had nothing to so with it. Secret wiretaps revealed the father saying “God curse their generation, they were filthy and rotten children,” and “To hell with them and their boyfriends, may the devil s**t on their graves.”

The 17-year-old girl in Wellington may be lucky she escaped such a fate. As New Zealanders, we need to ask ourselves what we can do to minimise this occuring in New Zealand.

You can comment over at on my thoughts on how we can minimise this.

 

Tags: , , , ,

55 Responses to “Barbarism in NZ and Canada”

  1. immigant (950 comments) says:

    Don’t let them into the country.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  2. DJP6-25 (1,386 comments) says:

    immigrant 4:24 pm. You beat me to the draw.

    cheers

    David Prosser

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  3. Richard29 (377 comments) says:

    You mentioned Shakti Ethnic Womens Refuge in your first post – I have had the pleasure of meeting one or two of the ladies involved in this fantastic organisation and I can’t speak highly enough of the fantastic and life changing work they are doing every day protecting vulnerable women.

    I know a lot of the people posting on this thread will either denigrate the culture and religion of the victims or demand a tough response from outside people outside the culture – neither of these responses are likely to be effective in improving the lot of these vulnerable women.

    Shakti is an organisation of, by and for these women and approaches from within their culture but applying the universal standards of human rights that all New Zealanders expect regardless of background.

    I would encourage anybody who is interested in helping these women to support the work that Shakti do – details below.

    If anybody knows of women or children in danger tell them that they can call anytime day or night on 0800 SHAKTI

    http://www.shakti.org.nz
    If you wish to donate, please post your cheque to the below PO Box address OR make a direct payment to Women Against Violence Project. Account Number: 03 0211 0335943 02 (Westpac Bank, Onehunga Branch, Auckland New Zealand),
    PO Box 15112 New Lynn , Auckland , New Zealand

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  4. Andrei (2,631 comments) says:

    Easy fix, convert them to Christianity.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  5. joana (1,983 comments) says:

    Why should NZers donate to this outfit? There are wealthy people in their own communities who could be paying up. This is an imported problem which could easily have been avoided. This article just proves the truth that when ever muslims migrate to the west , the need for social workers greatly increases..Just think how disturbed some of these sure to be neglected children will be..Stupidity , abject stupidity.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  6. kowtow (8,428 comments) says:

    The crime wave that shocks the world.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-the-crimewave-that-shames-the-world-2072201.html

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  7. Fletch (6,358 comments) says:

    I’m afraid that this is the way the world is going. You only have to jump across to jihadwatch.com to find out that this and other similar events occur daily around the world. Not only do these things occur, but it’s also a fact that the mainstream media (for the most part) is afraid to report it. They aid this totalitarian ideology. And if anyone dares criticize it, Hamas-linked CAIR will jump in, stamp their feet and cry Islamophobia. It’s stealth Jihad, and the West is falling for it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  8. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    Shit! This topic is polarising….I’m with the God stalkers so far.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  9. reid (16,439 comments) says:

    It’s stealth Jihad, and the West is falling for it.

    Well the West is falling for it but its not stealth Jihad, it’s taking isolated episodes from a few fanatics and pretending every single Muslim on Earth thinks and acts like those fanatics do, which they don’t.

    The equivalent reporting in the Islamic world would be pretending that every single person in the West behaves like a ruthless, rapacious banker thief who thinks nothing of using an army to invade a Muslim nation just so they can rape that nation’s natural resources for their own benefit. As we all know, most Westerners don’t think and behave like that although some clearly do, given history and current events as well, but for some reason, some Westerners can’t seem to see that parallel and instead seem to live in some fantasy world where every single Muslim would do what these fanatics do if only they were allowed to.

    It’s relevant to those who think, to observe another parallel, which is that Churchill was one of the few in the wilderness in the 30’s decrying the march to war of Germany, and back then, most people thought Churchill was totally nuts and completely wrong, just like most people probably think its totally nuts to imagine every single Muslim in the entire world isn’t just a fanatical killer just as these “typical” cases “demonstrate.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  10. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/6338884/Woman-killed-apparently-for-bearing-girl

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  11. Richard29 (377 comments) says:

    @Andrei
    Sorry but Christianity has an absolutely terrible record on this stuff. We can try to blame it on Islam or Hinduism – but the common thread amongst all these cases is that the perpetrators are almost exclusively male and the victims are almost exclusively women and children.

    @Joana “This is an imported problem which could easily have been avoided.”
    Violence against women (be it murder, rape, beatings, forced marriage or whatever) is not the exclusive preserve of foreign cultures. New Zealanders have been raping and beating and murdering women and children for years – around 14 women murdered a year is our current rate – but it doesn';t get the same profile as the holiday road toll. I’m sure a few extreme examples from minority groups makes a great bogeyman but the fact is this is a problem for all cultures to face.

    This kind of thing has been around for thousands of years. The good news is that it is getting better – society is changing. It’s not easy to measure in months or even years, but generationally we are undertaking a massive shift. The major human rights organisations were born in the 20th century. What we know as the Human Rights movement barely existed in the public consciousness before the 1950’s.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature-by-steven-pinker-book-review.html

    Lets stop blaming the problem on others and look at ourselves and ask how we can be part of the solution:
    http://whiteribbon.org.nz/

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  12. jonnobanks (148 comments) says:

    People should stop believing in a man in the sky, Santa Claus, the tooth fairy and other nonsense. Before any of the people who suffer mental illness attack me, all I ask for is any evidence for your rubbish beliefs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  13. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    I’m with joana and Fletch on this.
    A quote from jihadwatch – http://www.jihadwatch.org/islam-101.html
    “However, in any given social context, as Islam takes greater root — increasing numbers of followers, the construction of more mosques and “cultural centers,” etc. — the greater the likelihood that some number of its adherents will take its violent precepts seriously. This is the problem that the West faces today.”

    Sorry, reid, but “stealth jihad” depends on people like you for its success.
    People who are well-meaning, but just do not understand the process.
    The so-called “moderate Muslims”, reid, are **irrelevant**. They do NOT (and **never have**) set the agenda for Islam. They will NEVER speak up against their religion. if you DO see any so-called Muslim “protesting” his religion, ypou can be sure that it is “taqiyya”. Deception, to fool the well-meaning into thinking “isn’t that wonderful! Muslims protesting their violence!”
    No. Don’t be fooled.

    It is ISLAM that matters, and Islam is unquestionably hateful and violent.
    Dozens and dozens of testimonies from former Muslims (who have become apostates) will tell you that. The UK, France and Sweden are having big regrets over the number of Muslims that they have let in.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  14. reid (16,439 comments) says:

    Sorry, reid, but “stealth jihad” depends on people like you for its success.

    Sorry thor42, but a Muslim-Western war depends on people like for its success. And so far, that’s what people like you are leading the world into, with a lot of help from the people who have designed the perception-management campaign which makes people like you think as you do.

    Sorry about that, but its true. Well done. You and people who think like you, will be soon responsible for the deaths of probably billions of people, if you keep up your present attitudes.

    The fact that you and possibly also those who think like you, obviously don’t currently see this danger looming large on the near to medium term event horizon, doesn’t change the clear and present fact that it is.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  15. Nostalgia-NZ (5,190 comments) says:

    The difference between the Canadian case and the 17 year old in Wellington is that the Canadian case was proven. ‘Evidence’ to prove the Wellington case was to draw a parallel with the Canadian convictions which had presumably been subjected to full scrutiny under their justice system. Just a small detail I know.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  16. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    Richard29

    Fundamentalist Xtians, like the followers of Islam have the subjection of women down to a fine art. They say practise makes perfect & the Bible bashers have had two thousand years to refine the process although to their credit they shun publicising the methods used. The Islamists started late but they too thought they were onto a good thing with the barbaric customs of the Middle East circa 700AD & as we know, with Islam nothing changes except the seasons.

    With proud cultural traditions at stake such as sanctioned beatings, genital mutilation, stoning & pouring acid over wayward women I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for change.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  17. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    Ban religion.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  18. Manolo (13,734 comments) says:

    No surprise. Par for the course for the vilest of all religions, the barbaric Islam.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  19. reid (16,439 comments) says:

    With proud cultural traditions at stake such as sanctioned beatings, genital mutilation, stoning & pouring acid over wayward women I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for change.

    nasska first: do you think this behaviour has anything to do with how a nation behaves (as opposed to how individuals behave) and if you don’t, do you think other people who think the same things you describe above make the same distinction as you do?

    Second: do you think its possible that if you look at history, both modern and ancient, one could find plenty of examples of Westerners (i.e. Caucasians for that’s what Westerners are to a Muslim), behaving in similar ways to those you describe: e.g. rendition, if you want a modern example?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  20. thor42 (971 comments) says:

    Sorry reid, but a Muslim takeover of the West depends on people like you for its success. And so far, that’s what people like you are leading the world into, with a lot of help from other “useless idiots” like yourself. People who don’t understand Islam and who haven’t seen the documents released by CAIR pertaining to their “stealth jihad” takeover of the United States.

    Sorry about that, but its true. Well done. You and people who think like you, will be soon responsible for the death of Werstern civilisation, if you keep up your present attitude.

    The fact that you and possibly also those who think like you, obviously don’t currently see this danger looming large on the near to medium term event horizon, doesn’t change the clear and present fact that it is.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  21. Bevan (3,924 comments) says:

    The crime wave that shocks the world.

    Holy crap, I don’t know if I can believe it!!!! A Robert Fisk article that doesn’t blame everything on teh Great Satan or the “evil Zionists”!!!!!

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  22. Fletch (6,358 comments) says:

    reid, I’m sorry, but I just don’t believe you understand. As i said above, just jump across to jihadwatch.com to see what is happening – incidents like thos occur every day.

    nasska, no Christians who have ever treated women badly have honestly done so because Christianity tells them to. In contrast, The Koran and Islam both support the actions of Muslims who treat women badly. In response to a comment on his website about how women are treated as second class citizens in the Bible, Dave Armstrong responds –

    Really? Funny, I hadn’t noticed that after 33 years of intense Bible study. The Bible I read has Paul stating that there is no male or female in Christ. Husbands are to honor their wives and love them like Christ loved the Church (i.e., He died for us). The Bible I read shows women with great courage, being at the crucifixion, while all the male disciples except for John, were a bunch of wimps and cowards, and fled in terror (Peter having denied that he even knew Christ). Mary Magdalene was the first to see the risen Christ, and several women were in the forefront of that event, too, while the men were slow to believe. Jesus saved a woman from being stoned for adultery, on the grounds that her sin was not — in the final analysis — greater than anyone else’s. Even Rahab the harlot is honored, because she helped the Israelite spies. Jesus greatly honored the woman who wiped His feet with her tears and rebuked his male host.

    Mary the mother of Jesus is, in fact, the very highest of all God’s creatures: far higher than any man. We Catholics believe she is sinless and immaculate (preserved from original sin from the moment of her conception; Martin Luther, the founder of Protestantism, actually believed the same thing, too). She is so exalted that Catholics are falsely accused of worshiping her all the time (we venerate her, which is essentially a high honor, but not worship). I am working on a book about Mary this very day. Catholics believe that God even channels the grace of salvation through Mary. Many other women are treated with great dignity and honor (e.g., Judith, Esther).

    “Liberated” women have really come a long way recently, haven’t they? They learned to smoke like men, and started dying of lung cancer at the same rate that men died. Real liberation there. Now they have accepted men’s selfish lies about abortion and have learned to slaughter their own offspring before they can even get out of the womb, and call that outrage a “choice” and a “right.” Real progress there too.

    The Bible, in elevating marriage to a lifelong commitment and a sacrament, protected women from much abuse. But now we have gone beyond all that. Now we are liberated and see women as sex objects and mere playthings that can be jettisoned if they are too old or undesirable. That is what our wonderful sexual revolution has brought us. Generally, it is women who suffer to a much greater extent economically after divorce (along with children). We know that; there is no question about it. It is the “puritanical” Christians who are in the forefront of the fight against pornography: the very thing that promotes these views. But the secular society thinks pornography is great: everyone has a right to indulge in it. Anyone who protests is a prude and opposed to “free speech.”

    I’ll take the biblical and Christian view of women any day, thank you.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  23. Tautaioleua (304 comments) says:

    There are certain war-torn societies that New Zealand should consider cautiously in relation to refuge migration. Our safety and security should always be paramount.

    There are also mindsets that one acquires in such broken societies that are very difficult to shake, even with migration.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  24. Yoza (1,872 comments) says:

    And we wonder, “Where did all those Nazis come from?” and“How did they manage to dehumanise such large chunks of humanity before slaughtering them?”

    Robert Fisk commenting on honour crimes comes across as an expression of credible empathy for the victims, David Farrar commenting on the same topic has the creepy smell of opportunistic, xenophobic dog whistling.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  25. hj (6,990 comments) says:

    Anti-immigration feeling has no place in the Green party Immigration and Population policies released today, Green MP Keith Locke says.

    “Our policy is the opposite of Winston Peters’,” the Party’s Immigration Spokesperson Keith Locke says.

    “We have no fear of migrants. The Green Party says ‘Welcome Home – this is your country now’. Our welcome extends to the families of new migrants. The Green Party policy is fundamentally humanitarian, not exclusionary like Mr Peters’.

    “Rather than foster suspicion about refugees, we want New Zealand to do more to provide a safe haven for those fleeing from oppression. Our policy proposes an increase in annual refugee intake from the present 750 to 1000 by 2010.

    “The Green Party policy is not based on prejudice, but an objective analysis of what level of migration is compatible with a sustainable New Zealand. HO HO!

    “Racism has no place in the selection of migrants. Unlike Mr Peters, we don’t start with an assumption that ‘Kiwi values’ are somehow superior to those of new migrants.
    http://www.greens.org.nz/press-releases/greens-counter-peters-welcoming-immigration-policy

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  26. side show bob (3,660 comments) says:

    Gee are you a politician Richard29 ? ” stop blaming others and take a look at ourselves”, be bugger! I didn’t lock this girl up nor force her to marry some two bob. This is the same sort of rhetoric that follows the death of a child in NZ “we all must take responsibility”, bullshit. Stop making excuses for the scumbags, call them for the animals they are, can’t do that can we, might offend someone. As far as I’m concerned it’s high time for some good old fashion offending.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  27. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    reid

    A nation is its people. While there may be those who don’t agree with the actions of their political leaders I can think of few examples in history where a nation’s triumph or disgrace is not accepted as the actions of its citizens. I hold grave doubts that everyone in Rome thought Julius Caesar was a great bloke but he & the nation he represented are judged by his decisions & actions a couple of millennia later.

    I don’t think that Western civilisation has interacted well with their counterparts in Islam nor vice versa. In fact there has been friction for about fourteen centuries & nothing that you or I or our leaders do is going to unravel the historic knitting.

    What you propose is essentially appeasement. We don’t have to go too far back in time for an example…..try Neville Chamberlain. It was seen as weakness then & it will be a disaster now.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  28. Fletch (6,358 comments) says:

    If anyone wants to know exactly what plans CAIR are making in America, I recommend a book called Muslim Mafia by Paul Sperry and P David Gaubatz. A guy called Chris Gaubatz went in undercover as an intern, gained their trust, and was given (as one of his jobs) the task of shredding documents. He kept many of these which were used as the basis of this book.

    I’d get a copy quick, as CAIR wants all distribution of the book stopped – any copies “returned to them” or destroyed.

    They can’t really defend against what it says, because it’s plain for all to see what the documents say. They can only try and sue.

    http://amzn.to/AvUTce

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  29. Fletch (6,358 comments) says:

    Forgot Amazon book description –

    You’ve heard about the courageous young investigators who covertly videotaped officials of ACORN advocating illegal activities. Now, get ready for an undercover exposé even more daring: a six-month penetration of the Washington-based Council on American-Islamic Relations that resulted in the collection of thousands of pages of smoking-gun documents from this terror-supporting front group for the dangerous, mob-like Muslim Brotherhood. This is what Muslim Mafia delivers. It has all the elements of a top-flight mystery novel, but the situations and conversations are real. The book’s frightening allegations are supported by more than 12,000 pages of confidential CAIR documents and hundreds of hours of video captured in an unprecedented undercover operation. This trail of information reveals the seditious and well-funded efforts of the Brotherhood under the nonprofit guise of CAIR to support the international jihad against the U.S. Follow intern Chris Gaubatz as he courageously gains the trust of CAIR’s inner sanctum, working undercover as a devoted convert to Islam, and blows the whistle on the entire factory fueling the wave of homegrown terrorism now plaguing America.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  30. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    Fletch

    I concede that in the New Testament there is nothing to suggest that women are inferior to men. However, in fundamentalist Christian society the equality of women seems to be honoured in the breach. There are a lot of passages in the Old Testament referring to treatment of women which would dovetail neatly with today’s Islamic practises.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  31. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    side show bob

    Spot on! I’m sick to bloody death of being told that “I” need to take responsibility for some loser’s violent actions.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  32. tristanb (1,127 comments) says:

    @Richard29

    We can try to blame it on Islam or Hinduism…

    Don’t forget about the Sikhs! Don’t ever forget about those Sikhs.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  33. Nostalgia-NZ (5,190 comments) says:

    What Richard29 didn’t tell us in his 5.08 post was SHAKI’s position on women suffering these type of crimes going to the police? Or SHAKI’s relationship with police who afterall are responsible to investigate crimes and who naturally can’t have that role usurped in anyway. Among all the normal advantages of that would follow reliable reporting of the proven offences and less hysteria, it would also generate faith in immigrants that NZ law is for all rather than what seems to prevail where unfounded allegations become fact and upset the other children, who in turn react against an entire culture.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  34. gump (1,647 comments) says:

    Andrei said:

    Easy fix, convert them to Christianity.

    ————————

    Please tell us more about how the Exclusive Brethren, LDS Church, and Catholic Church are protecting the rights of women.

    Like all religions, Christianity suffers from its fair share of fruit-loops.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  35. reid (16,439 comments) says:

    What you propose is essentially appeasement. We don’t have to go too far back in time for an example…..try Neville Chamberlain. It was seen as weakness then & it will be a disaster now.

    No I’m not proposing appeasement nasska, I’m proposing that if most people looked at the situation geopolitically instead of emotively they would see the entire war on terror is actually nothing more than the excuse for western imperialism, 21st century style. The war on terror relies on manufactured enemies as far as the eye can see. Like all propaganda campaigns they take real issues that exist such as Sharia and blow them out of proportion using propaganda so they can paint entire nations as thinking and acting and believing exactly as the small minority of fanatics they are painting as typical.

    Nothing has disappointed me more in this day and age to see so many with so much available information, turn around and completely ignore said information and instead, merely react like instinctive animals to the subtle and ubiquitous propaganda cues which those with vested interests play upon and play up, all the time. This particular recurring phenomenon we debate here today is but one mere example of many such propaganda cues surrounding the ‘war on terror,’ but this, like all the other pieces in the jigsaw, add up to a picture which is leading the world into what I said above.

    If you want war for no reason, then go ahead and keep buying it. Rest assured, I won’t and I haven’t. The reason is not because I’m “soft on Muslims” for I’m a defence hawk and always have been and if the Muslims really were the threat the perception management campaign pretends them to be I guarantee I would have called them way before anyone else here, way before 911 for example. But they aren’t, as a people, they just aren’t.

    Quite apart from that, like I said in my first post here tonight, no-one who understands how geopolitics works can possibly imagine that the way a culture behaves has any bearing whatsoever on how a nation conducts itself in international diplomacy, of which war is a mere extension. A nation goes to war because its leadership believes it is in its best interest to do so, that decision has nothing to do with what its people think and you can see this from a simple examination of every single war in history. Hitler did not re-arm Germany and then invade Poland because there was a grass-roots demand from the German people, he and his henchmen manufactured it using, what is now today with the benefit of hindsight, quite obvious and transparent techniques.

    What I have been explaining to those with ears and eyes tonight, is those mechanisms are in equal employment today. They’re different, sure. These days, we don’t have Movietone news, we have Fox. et al. But the same techniques practiced by those people are being used by the US and the UK today, to get people who don’t understand, very keen indeed on executing a war against the entire Muslim race. If that’s what you think is right, fine. But FFS don’t be sucked into supporting such an adventure unless you know that’s what’s been happening and you support such with full aforethought and understanding of what exactly is it that you’re supporting.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  36. Andrei (2,631 comments) says:

    Please tell us more about how the Exclusive Brethren, LDS Church, and Catholic Church are protecting the rights of women.

    Pray tell my friend how any of these Churches are oppressing women?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  37. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    reid

    I have already conceded that Western interests are fomenting trouble in the middle east. We have in the past two decades seen leaders of the USA & the UK, or the puppets of whoever does really lead, make political moves that beggar common sense.

    They are, however, ably assisted by the belligerent & arrogant actions of the Islamic nations. The WTC, the London bombings, the suicide bombing campaigns did a perfect job of hardening the attitude of the Western people.

    History will show that the war has probably already started…..in war truth is the first casualty & both sides have propaganda machines working at full revs.

    Meanwhile the greatest stupidity of any race of people in the known history of the world is taking place…..we are accepting immigrants & refugees steeped in a religion/culture which has as its base tenet the maxim that the Infidel must die so that Islam can prevail.

    Our leaders must hate us.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  38. Viking2 (11,467 comments) says:

    She was imprisoned at home for several months, until she escaped.

    Essentally kidnapped or detained against her will.
    Didn’t see a prosecution for this. Are the persons responsible still in NZ?
    If they are why were they not before the court?

    Oh dear me we had to send 78 to arrest a geek.
    and that case is escualting world wide and about to fall apart round the FBI’s ears.
    Class actions ensuing.

    haha. Banner at top advertising Microsoft Cloud. Well well. Are they conspirators with FBI. Do we trust Microsoft?
    Hell no.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  39. reid (16,439 comments) says:

    …belligerent & arrogant actions of the Islamic nations

    If you’re talking about Iran then from her perspective she has absorbed aggression of various kinds from the US/UK and Israel for quite some years until recently when she finally started reacting. Aggression furthermore which those countries would not have tolerated one iota were it directed toward them. For example, can you imagine what Israel would have done if the Head of Dimona and various key scientists were killed by various bombs in Tel Aviv over a period of several years and if a virus was implanted in Dimona’s equipment? How quickly do you think Israel would have reacted, were everything she has done to Iran, were done to her. And please, if anyone thinks that Iran’s sponsorship of Hezbollah equates to anything like that on the scale of national harassment, they just don’t understand how politics works. The only time any politician gives a flying fuck about a few civilian casualties is when they can use it as a convenient excuse to widen the conflict.

    History will show that the war has probably already started

    Oh it has, nasska. The question thinking people need to ask themselves is: when and by whom.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  40. Other_Andy (2,676 comments) says:

    Islam is just another religion just like Christianity and Buddism….

    Buddhists follow a variety of traditions, beliefs and practices, largely based on teachings attributed to the Buddha. Reading about Buddha’s life and his teachings he was a virtuous person.
    If all people would act like Buddha, the world would be a better place.

    Christians try to follow Jesus’ life because, according to the Bible, he was sinless and perfect. Read the New Testament and you will find that Jesus is a very decent person.
    If all people would act like Jesus, the world would be a better place.

    A Muslim believes in two things…
    The Quran is the immutable, unchanged, and unchangeable word of God, as revealed to his messenger, Muhammad, “…an exalted character.”
    And, Islamic tradition upholds Mohammed as ‘al-insan al-kamil’ or ‘the perfect man’, to be emulated by all Muslims.
    Now read the Quran which has more than a hundred verses that incite violence towards non-believers
    And before you point to the violent verses in the OT, the Quranic verses, as compared with the Biblical verses, are verses with open-ended commands to violence that are not bound by historical context within the passage itself.
    Now for Mohammed, the Muslim’s perfect man…..
    Mohammed was, according to the Quran, the Hadiths and the Siras, a murderer, a thief, a rapist and a liar who held slaves, beat women and tortured people.
    If all people would act like the Mohammed in the Quran, the world would be an awful place.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  41. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    reid

    We’ve already discussed (15th Jan) the possibility that Iran couldn’t be certain that Israel were behind the disintegrating scientists, nor Stuxnet. In any case Iran’s leaders are only holding on to power with the backing of the Revolutionary Guard & I doubt that all out war would be very appealing at this point of time. If Iran make the first move regardless of right or wrong there will be about 80 million souls with fried bodies lining up to meet Allah.

    While “dinner jacket” shoots his mouth off there mat be a few Iranians who are not quite finished with life. Martyrdom is always so much more virtuous when someone else does the dying.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  42. reid (16,439 comments) says:

    We’ve already discussed (15th Jan) the possibility that Iran couldn’t be certain that Israel were behind the disintegrating scientists, nor Stuxnet.

    It was either the US/UK or Israel or a combination of any of those three and it doesn’t really matter which it was, it was one of them and they’re all acting together in this so they’re the same enemy, from Iran’s perspective.

    The reason we can’t prove it is because none of us have access to Cosmic Intelligence but seriously, who else could it possibly be, and finally, it doesn’t matter what we think, its what Iran thinks and/or knows, and one can infer that it DOES know who has been doing it from its actions, which are the only salient point, along with Israel’s actions and those of the US/UK. (i.e. the words the politicians use are meaningless, actions are the only things that count.)

    The only people obsessed with Dinner Jackets wipe Israel off the map comment and think it means anything whatsoever are almost universally western people who believe the western MSM doesn’t lie to them and those people’s opinions don’t factor in this equation, not at all, so I’m not sure why that particular propaganda set is relevant in anyway to what happens next here.

    Re: Iran striking first, why would she do that? By her actions, she has shown herself to be slow to anger. Like I said above, if the same provocation meted out to her had been meted out to the US/UK or to Israel, do you really think any of those nations would have stayed her hand for as long as Iran has? This action she has finally taken has been available to her ever since the provocations started. Does this not mean anything? Forget words: “by their actions ye shall know them” and guess whose actions it is that those with eyes and ears have been seeing for the past few years?

    If an Iran first stike “happens” as in, the western MSM reports it as such, then FFS for your own sake, make sure that you’re very familiar with what a false flag is and how it has been used in history: e.g. Gulf of Tonkin and USS Liberty and don’t forget to go right back and you’ll see evidence of them from the US, all over the place dating back to the 1800’s. Also, if you have any sense, you’ll be looking for evidence of a possible false flag setup right now and I can tell you there is a jumbo sized clue to that in the makeup of the Fifth Fleet.

    Of course, since we don’t have access to Cosmic intelligence, neither of us will every really know for sure if and when it happens, will we. But if and when an Iran first strike happens is reported as such by the lying western MSM, if the first time you ever hear the term “false flag” is on the night we’re debating the effects of that strike which occurred earlier that day, then I almost guarantee you’ll be so full of self-righteous anger that you’ll be completely incapable of even considering the possibility that it was one, which would be shame, if that is what it really turns out to be, when history discloses it twenty-fifty years later.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  43. nasska (11,464 comments) says:

    reid

    I read an article about who could be behind the fragmenting nuclear scientists not long ago but I can’t find it to link it. The gist of the thesis was that Iran had pissed off so many nations worldwide that it would be hard to sheet home blame. Israel of course got top billing but Russia was mooted as a possibility & even China mentioned. Despite your bias you could be tempted to concede that Iran has never turned down an opportunity to get up the noses of the Western powers.

    Agree…..it is unlikely to be the work of one nation but the reasons can be varied & all linked to Middle East intrigue.

    I wouldn’t put a false flag incident past the USA, Israel or the UK. Whatever happens a democracy has to take the people with it be it by propaganda or sleigh of hand. Iran as a theocracy has the luxury of doing as it wishes with the guarantee of a subdued & cowered populace.

    If hostilities eventuate I’ll be missing from the fan club for either side. Whilst I detest the Muslim faith & everything it holds dear I won’t be cheering for a group of nations who will have let corporatism dictate their actions.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  44. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    In the time it took to read the post, the articles, and the comments here, an unborn New Zealander was aborted. DPF is certainly right that barbarism occurs in New Zealand and Canada – but the Muslims aren’t the biggest culprits.

    18,000 abortions a year. And the liberals are proud of it.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  45. Griff (7,673 comments) says:

    Saudi Arabia

    Were do they sit reid?

    snake in the grass ?

    playing which side?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  46. Griff (7,673 comments) says:

    @East Wellington Superhero

    yeah we should recycle them
    shame to let all that protein go to waste

    Oh and they are not New Zealanders until they are born

    if mommy drops any were else they belong to the country of birth

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  47. adam2314 (377 comments) says:

    Response no. 1. By immigant..

    ” Don’t let them into the country “.

    Says it all really.. Why do we need all of the claptrap written after that ??

    How many more Taxi drivers do we need ??.
    How many more head wobbling. Hi-Vis wearing. Clip board carrying Public Servants do we need.
    How many Burger Flipping ” Highly Qualified ” Economists and Computor experts do we need ??

    How many Bricklayers do we need ??
    How many Plumbers do we need ??.
    How many Carpenters do we need ??.

    Engineers.. Electricians.. Drainlayers.. ??

    Nah !!.. That is hard work.. Says it all really..

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  48. RRM (9,915 comments) says:

    “Barbarism” is such a subjective word.

    We have a lot of ritual genital mutilation here in NZ, no-one says much about that. It’s mostly Whitey doing that, maybe that’s the reason…?

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  49. gump (1,647 comments) says:

    Andrei said:

    Pray tell my friend how any of these Churches are oppressing women?

    —————

    Exclusive Brethren = An evil mind controlling cult. Women are forbidden from having short hair, wearing makeup, wearing trousers or shorts, socialising with outsiders or ‘worldlies’, attending university, using contraception, or contradicting the “Elect Vessel” that rules their church. If they break these ‘rules’ they are expelled from their communities and their families and children are instructed to shun them.

    LDS Church = Led by Warren Jeffs. An evil scumbag who married his dead father’s wives, took child brides, went to jail for raping children, married children to other men within his church, and reassigned wives and children within his church as a means of punishment. His wiki page really is worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_Jeffs

    Catholic Church = Opposes all forms of abortion (even when medically necessary to save the woman’s life), denies women access to contraception, denies women ordination into the priesthood, makes no provision for divorce, opposes marriage between Catholics and non-Catholics (and won’t recognise such marriages without dispensation).

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  50. Fletch (6,358 comments) says:

    Catholic Church = Opposes all forms of abortion

    And good for them! Abortion is an abuse of women. It’s mainly used as a contraceptive today. I actually see abortion as a complete abuse of women, and contraception too. Contraception was invented by men to take advantage of women, basically so men could have as much sex as they wanted without having to commit to anything. What a total mind-**** job this is on women – how they still see this as an advantage to them? They’ve been totally screwed (literally and figuratively) by contraception, and they just can’t see it.

    By the way – the Church fully supports natural family planning (eg, the symptothermal method (STM)) , which has a success rate as high as any other contraceptive

    The symptothermal method (STM) uses two measures—a woman’s temperature and observations of her cervical secretions—to accurately identify the fertile period of a woman’s cycle. What the researchers found was that when done correctly, this method resulted in a rate of 0.4% and 0.6% of unplanned pregnancies, depending on whether the couple abstained from sex, or used a barrier method during fertile periods. Out of the 900 women who participated in this study—including those who had unprotected intercourse during their fertile period—an overall rate of 1.8 per 100 women per year became unintentionally pregnant. A number that rivals what is seen with hormonal contraceptives.

    According to Prof. Frank-Herrmann, the study’s lead author, “The women or couples who want to learn the method have to buy a book, or attend an NFP course, or get some teaching by a qualified NFP teacher. Learning STM is usually no problem. There are precise rules that work.” While it has similar effective rates as other methods, it does require a larger time commitment. Women needed to measure and keep track of their body temperature and cervical secretions to be able to accurately identify when they are beginning and ending their fertile periods. However, when used 100 percent correctly, it resulted in only 0.4 unintended pregnancies per 100 women per year, a rate on par with chemical methods. While not a new method, this large-scale study of women following a detailed fertility awareness-based method of family planing (arguably the oldest form of family planning known) showed that it can rival its modern chemical counterparts for effectiveness.

    The Church accepts this because it still leaves the couple open to each in the act of fully giving to one another.

    As far as marriage to non-Catholics –

    Catholics are not forbidden from marrying people who are not Catholic. It has been the practice of the Church to marry non-Catholics and Catholics for quite some time. The Church refers to these types of marriages as mixed-marriages.

    Sometimes a future spouse will choose to go through a process called RCIA to become Catholic prior to marriage, but it is not necessary to become Catholic before marrying a Catholic. However, express permission of the local bishop is necessary. The Catholic person must uphold the obligation to preserve his or her own faith and “ensure the baptism and education of the children in the Catholic Church,” (CCC. 1635).

    One of the reasons that the Church exists is to safeguard the souls of those in its care. If a Catholic insists on marriage to a non-Catholic, the Church allows it, but wants to protect the soul of the Catholic in the marriage by making sure the non-Catholic understands the moral teaching and obligations of the Catholic party and assure that the Catholic is not in a position hostile to his or her faith.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  51. peterwn (3,271 comments) says:

    If the girls’ parents had not fled NZ they could be facing serious criminal charges over this incident, and the father has made things worse by threatening to kill her if he sees her again. IMO their behaviour was such that any decent nation should ban them from entry for ever. Unfortunately there seems nothing to stop them gaining entry to another western country in the future since they would have no convictions over this.

    It seems to me that the police should lay charges, obtain an arrest warrant and ‘log’ it with Interpol. Whether an arrest would actually occur is immaterial. This would limit their travel options in the future.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  52. Pete George (23,558 comments) says:

    peterwn:

    It seems to me that the police should lay charges, obtain an arrest warrant and ‘log’ it with Interpol. Whether an arrest would actually occur is immaterial. This would limit their travel options in the future.

    That sounds like a good way of dealing to the family – but it does potentially punish them on no proof of guilt.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  53. Spoon (104 comments) says:

    @immigant etc: Cracking down on immigration isn’t a solution. Odds are if she was in India she still would’ve been forced to marry, and then for all intents and purposes raped. A bit of a NIMBY reaction, absolutely not addressing the issue.

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  54. gump (1,647 comments) says:

    Fletch said:

    And good for them! Abortion is an abuse of women. It’s mainly used as a contraceptive today. I actually see abortion as a complete abuse of women, and contraception too. Contraception was invented by men to take advantage of women, basically so men could have as much sex as they wanted without having to commit to anything. What a total mind-**** job this is on women – how they still see this as an advantage to them? They’ve been totally screwed (literally and figuratively) by contraception, and they just can’t see it.

    ——————————-

    I recently read a book that was written by a female doctor (Dr Susan Wicklund) who provided abortions in several states across the American Midwest. The book was a memoir about her career and was called “This Common Secret: My Journey as an Abortion Doctor”

    What follows is a story from the first chapter of her book. The lead-in to this story is that she has been providing abortions for decades and the media is about to air a story about her and her clinic that will “out” her to her family about exactly what kind of doctor she is. So she is talking to one of her grandmothers before her grandmother sees the news on TV.

    ————–

    “Grandma, you know I work as a doctor.”

    “Of course. And we are all so proud of you.”

    “Yes, but I don’t think you know the whole story. I’m a doctor who works mostly for women, helping women with pregnancy problems.”

    Flower Grandma hesitated just a second, pushed back her chair, stood, and held out her hand for me to follow. She went to sit in her rocker, the same one sitting in my living room today. The rocker I have sat in so many hours since. The rocker I sit in right now, writing this down and trembling as I do so.

    She seemed distant. I moved to the old leather hassock beside her. She took my hand and placed it on the top of one of hers, then covered it with her other one. Our hands made a stack on the arm of the rocker—old skin, young skin. We sat in silence a minute. She turned to look directly at me. Her eyes, framed by gentle wrinkles, were full of some deep trouble.

    After a moment, she stared straight ahead and started to speak. Slowly. Deliberately. In a very quiet voice. At the same time she began stroking my hand. It was as if the gentle stroking was pushing her to talk.

    “When I was sixteen years old, my best friend got pregnant,” she said. A chill went through me.

    “I always believed it was her father that was using her,” she went on, “But I never knew for sure. She came to my sister, Violet, and me, and asked us to help her.”

    While I listened, thoughts whirled through my head. Stories I had read of women self-aborting and dying of infections when a safe, legal option was not available. The women who came to the clinics where I worked, many of whom still had to overcome huge difficulties to end an unwanted pregnancy.

    It isn’t uncommon to have patients confide in me that prior to coming in for an abortion, they had used combinations of herbs to try to force a miscarriage. These home remedies can be extremely dangerous and have caused the deaths of many women.

    I felt myself tighten and withdraw, anticipating what Flower Grandma was going to tell me. I wanted to see her eyes, but she kept them straight ahead. And she kept stroking my hand. So soft. I only wanted to think about those hands. Hands embracing and caressing mine—strong, gentle, soft.

    “The three of us were so naive. We knew very little about these things, but we had heard that if you put something long and sharp ‘up there,’ in the private place, sometimes it would end the pregnancy.”

    In spite of myself I conjured the modest room: a dresser in the corner with a kerosene lamp and maybe a hairbrush or hand mirror beside it. I saw three young, scared girls, still children, acting on old wives’ tales and whispered instructions.

    My stomach turned. Was this my grandma? Was I really here in her trailer house hearing this? I could barely breathe. She kept talking, all the while stroking the top of my hand, her eyes looking off into space, traveling back in time. Occasionally a pat-pat with her hand would break the rhythm of the stroking. Such old skin, full of brown age spots and paper thin. Stroking my hand in perfect measure with her words.

    Please just stop, Grandma. Don’t tell me anymore. Just hold my hand, and let’s talk about what you’ll plant in the spring. Tell me about the oatmeal bread you baked yesterday. Are there many birds coming to the bird feeder? I was flushed all over. And still she stroked while she talked. Pat-pat, stroke.

    “We closed ourselves, the three of us, in one of the bedrooms late one morning. We didn’t talk much, and she didn’t ever cry out in pain. It took a few tries to make the blood come. None of us spoke. We didn’t know what to expect next, or what to do when the blood kept coming. It was all over the sheets. All over us. So bright red. It was awful. It just wouldn’t stop.”

    She was still stroking my hand. I was shaking uncontrollably. I stared at the African violets under the plant light, trying to make them the focus of my attention. Her voice was a monotone, never a pause.

    “We put rags inside of her to try to stop the bleeding, but they soaked full. We all three stayed in her bed. We just didn’t know what to do.”

    My hand was trembling so hard it was all I could do to keep it on top of hers. She grasped it briefly, held it tight, patted it a few times, then went on.

    “We stayed right there together, unable to move, even after she was dead. Her father found us, all three of us, in the bed. He stood in the doorway, staring. No words for a long time. When he did speak, he told my sister and me to leave and that we were never, ever to speak of this. We were not to tell anyone, ever. Ever.”

    She stopped stroking my hand and sat still before turning to look directly at me. “That was seventy-two years ago. You are the first person I have ever told that story. I am still so ashamed of what happened. We were just so young and scared. We didn’t know anything.”

    Terrible sadness welled up inside me. And anger. I couldn’t picture my grandma as someone responsible for the death of anything, much less her best friend at the age of sixteen. She had carried this secret all her life, kept it inside, festering with guilt and shame.

    I wondered if the pregnancy was indeed the result of incest. Would it have made a difference? What were friends and family told about the death? What had they actually used to start the bleeding? What had the doctor put on the death certificate as the cause of death?

    I knew, through the patients I had met, that no one has to look very far into their family history to find these stories tucked away, hidden from view. But it didn’t lessen the shock of finding it here, so close, in the heart of my own family.

    Flower Grandma sighed and held my hand tight. Tears welled in her eyes.

    “I know exactly what kind of work you do, and it is a good thing. People like you do it safely so that people like me don’t murder their best friends. I told you how proud I am of what you do, and I meant it.”

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote
  55. SPC (5,619 comments) says:

    We should focus on the issue of those age 16 and 17 coerced to marry and those even younger sent abroad to marry.

    1. a law requiring all marriages of those age 16 and 17 to be vetted to ensure that the parents are not coercing their child to marry – currently we require parental approval for those under 18 to marry, but the problem is now a different one.

    2. some form of restraint on sending children (under 18) abroad to marry in coerced marriages and then coming back some years later with their partner.

    Such as expelling her partner and letting her remain.

    Also providing the children with the ability to get protection orders, so they stay here in the first place.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/politics/6337843/Government-rejects-marriage-law-change

    Vote: Thumb up 0 Thumb down 0 You need to be logged in to vote