Looting or Salvage?
January 15th, 2012 at 9:55 am by David FarrarReaders may be able to solve a debate a few of us were having yesterday.
If containers from the Rena wash up on a beach and there is no representative of the owner there to claim them, is it looting to help yourself to the contents, or it is salvage under international marine law?
I think it qualifies as looting as people surely know who the owner is, but a lawyer friend (not a specialist in marine law though) said that people have a right to salvage anything that washes up unless the owner is there to claim it.
Anyone want to clarify the law?
Tags: Rena
January 15th, 2012 at 10:02 am
It is Looting, while you were on your National Geographic trip it was canvassed rather thoroughly by the MSM.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:03 am
Be sure local Iwi will claim the foreshore and rights to any property washed out from the wreck.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:19 am
http://www.sunlive.co.nz/assets/images/site/120110_rena_trash_3.jpg
http://screencast.com/t/bMpo3n5GcNCB
http://www.sunlive.co.nz/news/17170-rena-focus-daily-coverage.html
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:20 am
I think you only have salvage rights when its on the high seas, anything in territorial waters has an owner, like finding a wallet in the street
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:22 am
If you help yourself to what washes ashore from the Rena, you break the law.
If you discover this material you are obliged by section 105(1) (b) of the Maritime transport Act to either deliver it to the police or allow the poilce to take possession of it.
The provision talks about “wreck” but that term is defined by section 98 of the act to include—
(a) any ship or aircraft which is abandoned, stranded, or in distress at sea or in any river or lake or other inland water, or any equipment or cargo or other articles belonging to or separated from any such ship or aircraft or belonging to or separated from any ship or aircraft which is lost at sea or in any river or lake or other inland water; and
(b) shipping containers and property lost overboard or similarly separated from a ship, other than cargo lost in the course of its unloading or discharge from the ship while the ship is in a port.
So if containers and property that have fallen off the Rena wash ashore their presence needs to be reported to the police. Taking it away for your owne purposes is an offence under the MTA.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:29 am
Well, I don’t believe there’s a legal definition of “looting”.
Is it salvage? Well, it may be a technical possibility (quite possibly not, as we’ll have amended the law as above from the historical rules), but how many of those who have taken items have put in claims (which would be required)? Even if salvage was possible, it doesn’t mean you get to keep the items, it means that in return for securing them and returning them to their owner(s), you are entitled to some reward.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:33 am
In cases where the goods carried in the containers on the Rena are insured the insurers paid out on the policies immediately. as a consequence the contents of those containers are the property and remain the property of the insuer.
The contents of those containers that are uninsured remain the property of the shipper.
In simple terms taking the goods that have washed ashore, flotsam is the correct term, is theft.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:45 am
I’m guessing the law here is similar to that which was applied to the survivors struggling in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina: White people forage, black people loot. (“and we shoot looters round these parts”)
(just kidding, ….carry on.)
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:52 am
Yes I agree white people salvage black people loot. But I think taking property from these containers would be theft by finding as the owners have not abandoned the property given the circumstances of the loss.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 11:25 am
Masterley
If its looting, then somebody better warn Adam Feeley before he hot foots it down there with the trailer.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 11:37 am
There used to be an Official known as the ‘Receiver of Wrecks ‘ and all property washed up on a beach should have been entrusted to him. I understand recent law amendments have removed this office and the duties transferred to the Police.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 11:43 am
[..] while you were on your National Geographic trip
Comment of the year so far
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 11:46 am
If you get caught then it is looting.
If you don’t get caught then it is salvage.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 2:58 pm
One of my cow cocky mates got quite a few okay bags of milk powder. These will be kept until July – August and make it worthwhile to feed up some of his bull calves, rather than putting them on the bobby calf truck.
Vote:What goes around; comes around.
January 15th, 2012 at 5:20 pm
Strictly speaking, it’s theft. In an efficiency sense, if a whole container washes up, then probably you should report it. If a wet bag of milk powder washes up, it’s more work to tell someone about it than the bag is worth, and if you leave it where it is it’ll disintegrate into the ocean.
In short, I reckon noone gives a damn about small stuff, but ripping off something of real value isn’t something people should be doing.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 7:47 pm
Not sure about law, but I have the following comment on morality: It is someones property that they paid for, so if you can see value in it and take it away then you should make an effort to see if they want it back. If you are cleaning up a mess that is now of no value then good on you.
Vote:January 15th, 2012 at 10:20 pm
Well – perhaps more interesting is this.
Vote:If the goods do legally belong to the insurance company or the exporter then surely they are liable to pay for cleaning the mess up.
If a dairy farmer discharges milk that he ownes – then he is liable to clean it up, if i discharge oil on the commercial property – then i have to pay to clean it up.
So surely it applies here?
And that the taxpayer isnt liable…………………..