Are the Greens using taxpayer funds to get signatures for their petition?
May 29th, 2012 at 4:05 pm by David FarrarInventory2 at Keeping Stock blogs:
We’ve just been alerted to something very interesting on Twitter; check out this vacancy on the Student Job Search website:
That’s right Dear Readers; the Green Party, that last bastion of honesty and principle in New Zealand politics is paying people to go out and collect signatures for their petition against the Government’s Mixed Ownership Model, which they still misleadingly refer to as “Asset Sales”.Two questions come to mind immediately; is it so hard to get people to sign this petition that the Green Party has to pay for people to accost members of the public and bully them into signing; rather like Scientologists do? And can the Green Party give us a categorical assurance that no taxpayer funds are being spent on this initiative?
The category the job is listed under is “Central Government”, so on the face of it the Greens could be using their parliamentary funding to pay people to get signatures for their petition.
Even if the funding is from the Greens, not the taxpayer, I have to say I have never heard of a political party paying students to collect petition signatures before. Isn’t that what you have umm activists for? What does it mean, that they can’t find an activist in Christchurch willing to collect signatures for them?
Related posts:
- Greens are using taxpayer funds for CIR petition
- Greens employing eight taxpayer funded staff to collect petition signatures
- Herald on Greens taxpayer funded petition
- Greens trying to buy a referendum
May 29th, 2012 at 4:12 pm
Cheers for the shout-out DPF. Perhaps I should get my daughter who is at UC to apply for the job
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:19 pm
I hope the greens are paying a living wage for this, $18 seems too low.
surely we can find a low income family with 6 kids and a bunch of relatives living with them that could not survive on this low income, and its only part time, surely it should be a job for life on a living wage?
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:27 pm
But if they were using their Parliamentary allocation, where is the problem? As an aside, most activists have day jobs, which makes going out all day petitioning pretty difficult.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:31 pm
most activists have day jobs? Alex, we are talking about the green party here. most activists wont want to get up before midday is probably more likely the issue.
if the greens think this is worth spending money on, why dont they use the donations money they get? they get enough without using taxpayer money on this.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:32 pm
Read the advert Alex; they want people to work at around 5pm, and on weekends; times of high traffic flows. Stop defending the indefensible; the Greens have been busted!
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:34 pm
@Grendel – I’m collecting signatures for this petition campaign. (voluntarily) I have two jobs. I also study. I also do other voluntary work. I would consider myself a fairly typical Green activist. Kindly fuck off with your outdated stereotypes.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:36 pm
@KS – The indefensible? Crikey mate I thought you were more reasonable than that. It’s hardly the crime of the century. Or even a crime at all, for that matter.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:40 pm
I wonder where they learned this trick? Greenpeace springs to mind. All those doe-eyed young things who approach you on the street are being well paid by Greenpeace. How much did Greenpeace raise in this country in 2010? $9.1 million. I hope the IRD keeps a keen on eye on them now they’ve been rightly chucked off the register of charities.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:42 pm
you do seem like a typical green activist; arrogant, ok with wasting tax payer money on your pet whining, and unable to read, otherwise you would know the difference between an asset sale and asset leveraging.
i do wonder what you do are doing on the internet if you are a green, how do you justify the carbon output you are generating? or are you of the belief that not using carbon is for people not in the upper levels of the party comrade?
I do hope you are paying extra tax on your jobs as you are clealry a rich prick who has the advantage of being able to work a job, so you should be paying more to subsidise who are not as ‘lucky’ as you. if you keep any of your money and dont give it to gaia you are clearly a rich prick capitalist.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:47 pm
But if they were using their Parliamentary allocation, where is the problem?
I think there is an issue with that, if that’s being used to pay for a petition. Parliamentary funds being used to actively campaign against the parliamentary process sounds iffy to me. And are MPs on taxpayer funded salaries and taxpyare funded travel expenses also spending their time and (our) money on the same sort of thing?
I though citizen initiated referanda were supposed to enable citizens to protest or influence parliament. It seems like they’ve been hijacked by political parties to extend election campaigning. I’d be surprised if that’s what was intended.
I don’t think we should be spending money on MPs and their stafff to be activists. They are supposed to be parliamentary representatives, working for the country, not to be subversives trying to abuse and undermine our democratic processes.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:48 pm
Grendel – What are you talking about with this Comrade rubbish? Thats the Communist Party my friend, the Greens have a very different set of policies. And yes, I pay tax. The extra tax on the 2nd job almost makes it not worth doing, but I prefer to be working than not, so I’m fine with paying extra tax.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:51 pm
How is collecting signatures for a petition undermining our democratic processes? Is it encouraging too much participation?
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
Alex – were you one of the misleading types trying to get signatures outside Eden Park on Saturday night? Poor buggers weren’t having much luck from what I saw and actually it was pleasing to hear comments such as ” They are only partial sales” “we need the money” “we need to sell more”. A few sour faces amongst the collectors. In fact I think I could have got more pro partial asset sale signatures that night (even tho the crowd was small) than the entire anti campaign has managed to get so far. Without even trying.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:56 pm
yes you are right Comrade Alex, the communist party, ie the green party. look at your partys roots, ask Metiria about the trotskiests, and the old guard about the joys of Mao etc.
No one said you did not pay tax, i am not talking about standard tax, please answer the actual question. your party believes that tax is too low, and since you are ‘lucky’ enough to be able to do two jobs, (according to your ability), i hope you are redistributing your additional wealth to others (according to their need) less ‘lucky’ than you. is one of your jobs collecting signatures for the greens? your post does not say its not, it says that (voluntarily) you have two jobs. no wonder you are defending the green rort.
but again, how do you justify burning the carbon you are using the internet, what will gaia think?
Dont worry though, in a few years i am sure you will have done your time and you too can become an overpaid MP with no experience of the real world.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 4:59 pm
“against the Government’s Mixed Ownership Model, which they still misleadingly refer to as “Asset Sales”.”
Off topic i know, but the shares that the government own would appear on the asset side of the ledger. Some of these shares are being sold.
They are selling something and getting money in exchange, that’s an asset sale by any reasonable definition.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 5:03 pm
Mik, it just leaves a sour taste in the mouth.
a citizens referenda is (naively) supposed to be about getting access to policians via the volume of signatures.
by their nature they are given the impression of individuals in their own time, doing the yards to collect signatures.
having one of the policitical opponents of the law in parliament, shuffling money to push this campaign just cheapens it. its a cynical ploy on the part of the greens, they are worried there is not enough genuine support which would make people use their own time to collect signatures so they overcome that by using tax payer money to do it.
It also smacks more of the whining of the left about mandates etc. they need to realise they lost, this was a campaigned on policy, and noone was under any surprise it was going to happen. the greens had their chance, and despite their obfuscation (i am being nice and not saying outright lying) of language (sales vs leverage), despite the partys arson attack, despite the media helping, National still got the highest ever MMP result.
this just smacks of whiny pettiness. they lost the legimate proper contest so are trying to backdoor it again by funding this. funny that its the party that whines the most about money in politics, using money to try and influence politics. but irony and hypocrisy have always gone over the greens heads.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 5:06 pm
How is collecting signatures for a petition undermining our democratic processes? Is it encouraging too much participation?
MPs have processes withing parliament to propse, oppose and debate. And we also have things called elections. They used to be about once every three years.
However we now have what seems to be a lot of parliamentary resource going towards trying to work outside this established framework, opposing government, recruiting party activists – and not doing the the bloody job they were elected to do.
They don’t have a mandate to be anti-government activists. They didn’t campaign on spending a big chunk of their time and our money on perpetual campaigning.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 5:08 pm
Alan, you are right that selling the shares of an asset is the sale of an asset.
but in that case the asset sale is the shares, not the actual power company.
its a huge difference. if i sell my power company, i no longer own it or have any control of it.
if i sell 49% of the shares, i still own the power company and have control.
its a really big difference.
the greens and their fellow travellers are pushing that the actual assets are being sold and making implications on that, which is simply put wrong.
but the greens and their comrades are all about controlling the language, which they are good at, as the media helps them.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 5:17 pm
“against the Government’s Mixed Ownership Model, which they still misleadingly refer to as “Asset Sales”.”
Good Lord, the Greens are refusing to allow the government to set the terms of the debate? An outrage! Can those base watermelon Trotskyists sink any lower???
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 5:21 pm
Well they shamed Lockwood into providing extra funds for the deaf girl well at least the taxpayers know where the funding has gone.
Vote:I expect this to be widely reported in the papers tomorrow!
May 29th, 2012 at 5:24 pm
Alex said
When it’s my taxes they’re spending on work that should be done by volunteers, my bullshit detector starts vibrating Alex
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 5:25 pm
@Grendel – No, just to clear it up, I am not paid to collect signatures, I do that in my own time. Just like every other person who I have been collecting with over the past month.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 5:27 pm
Total beat up.
The only indication that this could possibly be government funds is the category “Central Government” on the job ad which I suspect was selected from a system drop down box by somebody at SJS as closest fit.
If they are using Green party funds, or Green party funding allocation to pay for the role I fail to see the issue.
How is this different from them commisioning a review from the economists at BERL on asset sales. They have money to spend on promoting the party and the issues it campaigns for and that is exactly what they are doing. Getting a referendum through with the greatest number of supporting signatures would achieve a big policy goal, that’s why they are doing it.
Green activists are gathering signatures as well. But the Green party is not that large a party structure and they are biggest in Auckland/Wellington – I doubt they have great numbers in Chch. Seems they are punching above their weight relative to Labour on this one and not scared to invest in raising their profile and engaging the public.
Also good to see the wage is $18 an hour (if they were paying minimum wage that would be worth blogging about) and that the job is open for tender publicly to students (rather than giving away paid jobs through nepotism/cronyism). Plus, they could have a paid role collecting signatures in any part of NZ, they all count the same, the fact that they are putting the employment into Chch is nice given the amount of business that’s left the area in the last year or two.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 6:00 pm
“The Parliamentary Service appoints on merit ” – to collect petition signatures? Non-political?
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 6:08 pm
I haven’t heard of political parties specifically doing it, but lots of organisations pay the people who collect signatures. It is work, you know. Those people with buckets who collect money for charity also get paid sometimes.
I have been part of a volunteer group collecting signatures before, and in general most people turned up for an hour or two at events in the evenings and on weekends. If you want someone to do it during working hours it gets a bit more difficult to find people.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 6:19 pm
alex, you and your fellow travelers are collecting signatures. For free. When you could be paid the princely sum of $18 per hour. And youre happy about that, right?
I don’t think anyone could sum up the failings of green economic thinking better than that.
Lets all grab a scythe and bring in the harvest. Dumb as a box of hammers…
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 6:24 pm
Since when do the rules apply to the watermelons?
Vote:And….
Everything they do is for the good of the community.
If that is against the law then the law should be changed.
May 29th, 2012 at 7:13 pm
The Greens have been doing this shit for years. They are more slimy than a blind eel.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 8:07 pm
When dealing with the Greens there is a simple rule.
Do not trust a single thing they say or do.
Every time you hear Red Russ or that ever expanding female co leader speak just remind yourself that they are telling bare faced lies.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 8:12 pm
Richard 29 said
Richard; it’s easy to be generous when the long-suffering taxpayer is footing the bill. In fact, the Greens have become most adept at it. Good Lord; imagine if they ever inherited the Treasury benches!
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 8:34 pm
Jesus, next they’ll be paying people to call folks up and answer questions over the phone!
Holy living fuck! Call the fucking newspapers!
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 8:39 pm
I wonder if the Greens would pay me to vandalise National Party hoardings next election? For $18 an hour I’d be happy to burn, tag, and smash. For $20 an hour and the loan of a scooter I’d be prepared to deny ever meeting Russell Norman.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 8:40 pm
GREENS REFUSE TO PAY LIVING WAGE TO POLITICAL EMPLOYEES!
SHOCKING FREE-LABOUR REVELATIONS SUGGEST SLAVERY AND CHILD-LABOUR PRACTICES FROM HYPOCRITICAL POLITICAL PARTY.
WUSSELL NORMAN DEMONSTRABLY HAS NEVER DENIED GREEN-PARTY SLAVE-LABOUR POLICIES!
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 8:43 pm
In conclusion, that the Greens pay people who do jobs for them rather than expecting them to work for nothing is a good thing, and I encourage all political parties to continue this practice of paying people for a job done.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 9:58 pm
Just another slant on public expenditure being used for lobbying purposes.
Last week we had a KB discussion on publicly-funded NGOs spending their “income” not only on paying their own non-published salaries but also on lobbying against present law or Government policy. It’s the ultimate cynical distortion of the democratic process. Ask the likes of ASH, the problem gambling lot, and a host of alcohol wowser groups for which this kind of smoke and mirrors is standard modus operandi.
As an aside, the Greens are seen in this context concentrating most of their political energies again on trying to control the levers of economic power (as they see them). Far removed from “green” issues, not motivated in any way by ecological concerns, but aimed squarely at gaining power over the Treasury while it is still bloated by state-owned operating businesses.
The party branding is false pretences.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 10:15 pm
It’s the ultimate cynical distortion of the democratic process.
Yes, and it needs to be stood up to, confronted, and stopped.
Vote:May 29th, 2012 at 10:41 pm
Alex at 5:25 “And yes, I pay tax. The extra tax on the 2nd job almost makes it not worth doing, but I prefer to be working than not, so I’m fine with paying extra tax.”
Good to see at least one greenie who works, if there others then I can see why Bradford didn’t fit in!
Vote:I guess if the Greens get control of Treasury and put tax rates sky high then your second job definitely won’t be work doing, probably not your first job either! Probably not anyone’s job …
May 29th, 2012 at 11:34 pm
Pete George>Yes, and it needs to be stood up to, confronted, and stopped.
It’s supposed to look like a public-supported grass-roots organised petition. But it’s actually a petition-for-pay organised and financed by the Greens. That’s not too dissimilar to the Brethren and their “anonymous” activities at the 2005 election. If the Greens want to pay for a petition then they should be up front with the public, rather than sneaking around. At the very least, there should be full disclosure on the petition form.
Vote:May 30th, 2012 at 6:41 am
Another advertisement on the Greens website confirms they were to be funded by Parliamentary Services.
They advertised for thirteen positions around the country.
The positions will be based in Auckland (6 positions available), Wellington (3), Christchurch (2), Dunedin (1) and Hamilton (1).
I’ve collated details: Green Party use (and abuse?) of “support staff”.
Vote:May 30th, 2012 at 9:32 am
What makes you think that the Greenpeace party care a s..t for what other people think.
Only their goals are correct, and proces is all that matters.
Labour should be scared as this rabble are getting ALL the mileage politically, aided by the media.
Frankly we should all be afraid of this movement.
Vote:May 30th, 2012 at 9:43 am
On the plus side, I’m rather looking forward to telling these dickheads where to go, when they inevitably harangue me on Queen Street.
Vote:May 31st, 2012 at 1:13 pm
I’m partially for the Greens doing this, as it will no longer be a Citizen Initiated petition (but a government funded one) so maybe it could be argued there is no legal grounding for a referendum if they get the numbers (which we all know they never will). Though not my area of law, and I can’t recall the legislation, so just thinking out loud.
It’s about time someone finds a way of taking the Greens/Greenpeace/Mana/NZHerald to court for publishing lies to gain financial return. A law change to allow it, that is a petition I would sign.
Vote: