A dinosaur Reublican

August 21st, 2012 at 3:00 pm by David Farrar

There are times when I wonder that if I lived in the US, would I be able to be in the Republican Party, when they have candidates such as standing for the Senate.

I could never be a Democrat. The only left-wing party I think I could ever join would be the right faction of the NSW Labor Party :-)

I guess I could be a US Libertarian Party member, but I actually believe in achieving things. Anyway it is all academic, as I am happy here in NZ.

Fox News reports:Missouri Republican Senate candidate Todd Akin resisted calls to withdraw from the race Monday over his controversial comments on , despite mounting pressure from GOP leaders who roundly condemned his remarks and threatened to cut off funding. 

Up until this he was 9% ahead of the incumbent Democrat.

Akin, a six-term GOP congressman, is challenging Democratic Missouri Sen. Claire McCaskill for her seat. His chances looked fairly sunny — up until he told an interviewer that a woman’s body can typically prevent pregnancy during a “legitimate rape,” as he argued against allowing abortions in cases of rape, claiming such pregnancies are uncommon in the first place. 

“It seems to me first of all, from what I understand from doctors, that’s really rare,” Akin said. “If it’s a legitimate rape, the female body has ways to try to shut that whole thing down.” 

How can an experienced politician, let alone a half decent human being, say something like that?

He basically just told every rape victim who got pregnant that their rape wasn’t real rape. Jesus Christ.

Sadly a fair proportion of rape victims do get pregnant to their rapist, and have the anguishing decision about what to then do.

One can have a legitimate debate on the legality of , but you have to be a particular type of insensitive moron to make comments like Akin did.

Good to see the GOP dumping on him from a huge height. However the damage is done.

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110 Responses to “A dinosaur Reublican”

  1. Longknives (4,051 comments) says:

    Gone by Monday.

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  2. KiwiGreg (3,129 comments) says:

    “I could never be a Democrat. ”

    They are hardly to the left of the National Party”.

    And yeah Akin is a moron, the Oniion has nailed him.

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  3. alex (298 comments) says:

    American politics is an utter farce. The Democrats are incompetent and prone to blind faith in a messiah type leader, and the Republicans have become more crazy (and more right wing) than a Stephen Colbert parody. Very glad that for all our faults, at least we don’t have a two-party system here.

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  4. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    This talk comes as no surprise from a right wing politician.

    I remember the ‘Prebbles Rebels’ saying similar stuff in the 1990s. Tried to blame rape on what young women were wearing.

    [DPF: I think you are trolling. I recall no such thing]

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  5. PaulL (5,776 comments) says:

    Ham: I’m calling bullshit on that. Quote please.

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  6. Monique Watson (1,062 comments) says:

    It’s the conundrum innit it? The VRW are misogynist bigots and ignore minorities and the VLW are beholden to minorities and political correctness.

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  7. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    PaulL – No BS, I’ll do some Google searches and see if the old Salients are on-line, but no guarantees.

    DPF is well aware of the views expressed by the ‘Prebbles Rebels’ at the time.

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  8. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    “Sadly a fair proportion of rape victims do get pregnant to their rapist”

    Really? Numbers please…

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  9. Brian Smaller (3,915 comments) says:

    I am not sure if he said what he meant (mangled something he was trying to say) or meant what he said (cunt). Either way – the GOP leadership and groups on the ground are trying to get him to drop out.

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  10. peteremcc (341 comments) says:

    It also basically screws the Republican’s chances of getting the Senate. Hopefully that teaches them a lesson about picking nutters.

    Ironically this guy was seen as the “moderate” / “establishment” pick, while Sarah Steelman got endorsements from Sarah Palin and Mike Lee and John Brunner was endorsed by Freedomworks and Ron Johnson.

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  11. dime (8,790 comments) says:

    It wouldnt be easy voting Republican. Id do it because economics trumps social issues for me.. to a point. Id probably join the GOP and try to change from within!.

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  12. dime (8,790 comments) says:

    Oh yeah, this dude is an idiot for what he said. He may be somewhat correct but ya dont need to say it

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  13. tamati (58 comments) says:

    Actually to opposite is thought to be true. It is hypothesized that a traumatic event may cause hormonal changes, which could cause ovulation. The studies seem to back this up:

    http://www.springerlink.com/content/wp5cnp43k6byxj4d/

    So not only is this guy a misogynist, he’s also deluded.

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  14. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Try and change the GOP from within? – Good luck – Maybe you could prepare a submission sharing your views on gun control. I am sure that will go down well at the Texas convention centre.

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  15. tom hunter (4,012 comments) says:

    I would have thought that the GOP dumping on this idiot from a great height would have been further proof of how the vast majority don’t agree with these attitudes. It’s rather like the various concern-trolling that’s been done by left-wingers in the US about the “extremist” Republicans – the party that has nominated Mitt Romney, John McCain, Bush II, Dole, Bush I…..

    Perhaps they should put Akin on with the ladies of The View, where he and Whoopi Goldberg can have a debate about the differences between rape and “rape, rape”.

    However the damage is done.

    True, although how much damage will be done rather depends on the degree to which the right-wing blogosphere cooperates with the MSM in talking about this and talking about this and talking about this. Because you know damned well that they and the Obama administration have been gagging for something – anything – to talk about aside from crazed government spending and the shit Obama economy. I guess over the next week or so we’ll see how much power the old MSM still has to “maintain the narrative”. I see Barry turned up yesterday for his first Whitehouse press conference in two months – surprise, surprise.

    There were no questions about Fast and Furious or Joe Biden!

    There are times when I wonder that if I lived in the US, would I be able to be in the Republican Party,

    Oh, I think that with Mitt as President next year plus a GOP Senate and House – that still does not repeal Obamacare or significantly cut government spending – you’ll feel more at home than you might imagine!

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  16. East Wellington Superhero (1,151 comments) says:

    Stupid, yes. But a dinosaur?

    I’m not disputing the insensitive delivery of his comments (and political stupidity) but it’s a bit bombastic to say that anyone who thinks that life begins at conception is a ‘dinosaur’.

    Many believe life begins at conception and therefore the unborn person has rights. While some may not agree, it’s hardly a crazy theory. Furthermore, if you believe this then life through rape, as tragic as it is, is still life.

    Paul Ryan supports laws that ban abortion even in the case of rape.

    Calling someone a ‘dinosaur’ usually happens when the accuser has run out of solid criticism.

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  17. dime (8,790 comments) says:

    hamnida – i dont support your lefty gun control :)

    its more about making sure that the religious right in the party doesnt get too much say. eg abortion

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  18. ross69 (3,645 comments) says:

    While I’d be the last person to defend a Republican, I think the point Akin was trying to make was that abortion shouldn’t necessarily be the end result of a rape pregnancy. Up until quite recently, this was the same position held by the Romney’s running mate.

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  19. ross69 (3,645 comments) says:

    According to this article, pregnancy from rape or incest is rare.

    http://www.christiananswers.net/q-sum/q-life005.html

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  20. tom hunter (4,012 comments) says:

    See, this is what I appreciate about lefties like ross69: there’s a degree of cunning there that is entirely absent from the Hamnida wing of Labour (the part that’s off their meds anyway).

    You’re not advising McCaskill are you ross? She must be thanking the gods for those Democrat Super-PAC attack advertisements on Akin’s primary opponents. Money well spent obviously!

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  21. Andrei (2,431 comments) says:

    I guess he believes dismembering an inconvenient child is wrong and is outspoken in this belief.

    So a verbal slip up provides the opportunity to take him out and so the screeching harpy mob is unleashed and who can withstand those harridans

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  22. kowtow (6,734 comments) says:

    wooohoooo

    Politician says something dumb………what’s new.?

    White American Republican says something dumb…………world fucking headlines. Vast arsehole conspiracy.

    George Galloway’s made a dick of himself,anybody care? Nope,cos he’s a leftwing twit who loves Islamic loonies.

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  23. Ryan Sproull (6,661 comments) says:

    It’s not just a verbal slip-up, Andrei. It implies that women who get pregnant from this devastating kind of assault actually wanted it. That’s an appalling thing to do to human beings who have already had something appalling done to them. This isn’t Bush mispronouncing “nuclear”. It’s reflective of a dangerous attitude, which may well be prevalent in the circles he represents, and a strong message needs to be sent that it’s completely unacceptable.

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  24. Brian Smaller (3,915 comments) says:

    @kowtow – of course. The right wing are held to an impossible standard by the left, who are free to be as venal, corrupt and disingenuous as they want – because everyone knows they are venal, corrupt and disingenuous.

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  25. Andrei (2,431 comments) says:

    No Ryan what he was trying to say was: Hard cases make bad law and put his foot in his mouth with this result.

    Rational dialogue with the left is impossible, basically because they are irrational I suppose.

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  26. ross69 (3,645 comments) says:

    > women who get pregnant from this devastating kind of assault actually wanted it.

    I don’t read it that way at all, though I must confess it’s not clear what he was really saying.

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  27. thedavincimode (6,133 comments) says:

    Rational dialogue

    You mean, like G** waved his magic wand and then “poof” there was man, earth and the universe and, out there somewhere, the first homosexual?

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  28. Andrei (2,431 comments) says:

    Lol, hot of the press. Where do you think this will go: Minn. Rep. Kerry Gauthier caught with zipper down… literally. Admits to having ‘no strings attached’ sex with 17-year-old boy at rest stop

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  29. IHStewart (388 comments) says:

    ” Or as Paul Quinn, a parliamentarian from New Zealand’s conservative National Party, once told a group of visiting American Fulbright scholars: “I will explain to you how our system works compared to yours: You have Democrats and Republicans. My Labour opponents would be Democrats. I am a member of the National Party, and we would be … Democrats” as well.”

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  30. DylanReeve (179 comments) says:

    This concept – that women somehow become magically infertile when “properly” raped – is nothing new:
    http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/08/a-canard-that-will-not-die-legitimate-rape-doesnt-cause-pregnancy/261303/

    Exceptions to anti-abortion law in cases of rape are a tricky issue for anti-abortionists – because we can all pretty much agree that it is horrible to force a woman to carry a baby that is a constant reminder of this. So the way many tackle the issue is claim that is isn’t actually an issue… Firstly there’s the idea that many rapes aren’t really rapes, so they shouldn’t count (see efforts to use the word “forcible rape” in legislation), and the second is to claim that it just doesn’t happen – magically rape doesn’t make babies.

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  31. lyndon (330 comments) says:

    If you want argue about “what he was trying to say” then you have to deal with the actual sentence that everyone is angry about.

    I’m afraid you don’t get to ignore it and reconstruct the broader argument the way you think it should be made. (Well, you do, obviously, it just means you’re wilfully avoiding the point.)

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  32. Bob R (1,254 comments) says:

    ***Tried to blame r*pe on what young women were wearing.***

    There is a difference between blaming someone and saying that certain actions will increase the risk of an event occuring.

    For example, if you chose to walk down a dangerous neighbourhood wearing a nice watch you might be at increased risk of getting mugged. That isn’t a moral judgment on the person, or avoiding blaming the perpetrator – it’s just pointing out the risks.

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  33. tom hunter (4,012 comments) says:

    All I can say guys, is that even if DPF is willing to play the game by picking up this narrative in NZ (I see Radio NZ was all over it as well) – as opposed to Fast and Furious or the LGBT guy who shot up that family centre the other day, or any one of many other stories that could damage the left wing if they received the same coverage – then the best you can do is refuse to cooperate by talking about it!

    So what about that record unemployment in the US – 40 months over 8% now is it?

    … a strong message needs to be sent that it’s completely unacceptable.

    That’s already been done Ryan, to the extent that he’s under extreme pressure to go. Meantime I’m still waiting for the Lightbringer to send a “strong message” to his union thug mate Hoffa, who called upon his union members to deal to the GOP the old fashioned union way: Let’s take these sons of bitches out. Mind you, Barry had his chance that day – since he was standing a few metres away. Perhaps he found it insufficient after begging Latinos in 2010 to “punish your enemies”

    Same old, same old double standard.

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  34. Bob R (1,254 comments) says:

    btw. I understand if Akin steps down by 5pm (Eastern standard time?) the Republicans can replace him. Unfortunately this lunatic is refusing to go.

    Romney had just gained a bounce in the polls after naming Paul Ryan as his running mate. Now the Democrats will repeatedly point out that Ryan co-authored a bill with Akin. It will be interesting to see how they go in the polls after this.

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  35. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Bring back George W – A compassionate conservative, unless you’re on death in Texas during the 1990s.

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  36. Brian Smaller (3,915 comments) says:

    Lol, hot of the press. Where do you think this will go: Minn. Rep. Kerry Gauthier caught with zipper down… literally. Admits to having ‘no strings attached’ sex with 17-year-old boy at rest stop

    It will go nowhere. He is a Democrat so it is probably in their plans to make it compulsory.

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  37. Bob R (1,254 comments) says:

    ***Bring back George W – A compassionate conservative, unless you’re on death in Texas during the 1990s***

    Lol, Bill Clinton ordered the execution of a mentally handicapped man when he was Governor of Arkansas. Don’t suggest the Democrats can take the moral high ground.

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  38. alex (298 comments) says:

    @ EWS – Are you really going to go there? Suggesting that a fair proportion of rape victims don’t fall pregnant? Do you really need ‘numbers please…’?

    Two points to make: 1) Its simple fucking biology, you idiot. Sperm goes in, egg gets fertilised, baby pops out nine months later.
    2) Why is it do you think that a huge number of babies were born in Berlin 9 months after the fall of the city to the Soviet army in WWII?

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  39. BlairM (2,266 comments) says:

    Bring back George W – A compassionate conservative, unless you’re on death in Texas during the 1990s.

    *sigh* The Governor of Texas has no power to halt executions. He has to receive a recommendation of clemency from the Texas Board of Pardons and Parole, and only then can he stop one. Bush could have been a screaming flailing anti-death penalty liberal during his time in office and it would have made no difference to Texas’s rates of execution.

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  40. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Dont complain………….

    The USA has replaced the USSR as the idiots on the block…. weve got to have someone to laugh at

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  41. BlairM (2,266 comments) says:

    David, your hyperbole on the Republican party does you a disservice. How would you like it if Americans judged the National Party on Melissa Lee or Tau Henare?

    Akin has been UNIVERSALLY condemned by the GOP. Nobody of any note has defended his comments. Even Sean Hannity is calling for his head. Nobody is defending him or his remarks.

    I really don’t think you would be very comfortable in today’s Democratic Party at all. The moderate Bill Clinton types are all but extinct. The Democrats are well on the Left now.

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  42. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    Akin has been UNIVERSALLY condemned by the GOP

    Huckabee to Akin: ‘Horrible’ rapes created some extraordinary people

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  43. simonway (356 comments) says:

    What Andrei actually believes:

    Though she was initially upset following the brutal sexual assault last month that left her pregnant, victim Martha Byars told reporters she was relieved Sunday to learn from Rep. Todd Akin (R-MO) that her ability to conceive her unwanted child proves she was not, in fact, legitimately raped.

    “Being violently coerced into having sex was the worst thing that’s ever happened to me, so I take comfort in knowing it wasn’t actually rape,” Byars said of the vicious encounter in which she was accosted in an alleyway by a stranger, pinned to the ground, and penetrated against her will for 25 minutes. “It was absolutely horrific—I felt violated in the worst way imaginable—but thanks to Congressman Akin, I now realize it must, at some level, have been consensual after all.”

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  44. Jimmy Smits (246 comments) says:

    You obviously have no problems with being in the same party as homophobes like Bill English, however.

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  45. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    I Misspoke — What I Meant To Say Is ‘I Am Dumb As Dog Shit And I Am A Terrible Human Being’

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  46. Luke Mutton (247 comments) says:

    far worse than this despicable POS’s attitude to rape are these facts.

    1. HE is also in favour of the state forcibly committing sexual assault on a woman who requests an abortion.

    2. He sits on the House Science Committee, for fuck’s sake.

    I’ve finally figured out what’s wrong with the US system. All the clever sciency people are flat out doing clever sciency stuff, leaving politics to the morons, the bottom feeders and the thieves.

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  47. UpandComer (496 comments) says:

    Smits – Bill English isn’t a homophobe – u r a doosh for saying something dooshy like that, it must be because you are racist.

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  48. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    The House Science Committee – Only in the U.S.A. That’s like putting Bill English on the Education and Science Select Committee here or awarding Paula Bennett an honorary doctorate.

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  49. Luke Mutton (247 comments) says:

    No, Hamnida, its more like letting John “I believe Genesis is the literal truth” in charge of education policy. Oh, wait, we did.

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  50. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Bill English, not the brightest boy on the block.

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  51. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    There is nothing wrong with Todd Akin’s politics, it is his religious views that cause him to make such stupid statements.

    I am sure that even the evil Lucia Maria would not suggest that rape victims should be denied the right to have an abortion.

    Like DPF I could never vote for the Democrats but I am also sure I would not vote for the republicans when they have such a strong religious base.

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  52. Luke Mutton (247 comments) says:

    There is nothing wrong with Todd Akin’s politics,

    So you’d be OK with cutting Romney’s taxes to almost zero whilst increasing the tax on those below 35K?

    I am sure that even the evil Lucia Maria would not suggest that rape victims should be denied the right to have an abortion.

    Ah, but she does. She does indeed.

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  53. UpandComer (496 comments) says:

    Hamnida, the pols major who can really make it happen.

    Imagine putting people who only have pols majors, or focus on pols majors as young dorky know it all ingrates into parliament.

    Oh wait, that would be Hamnida and the Labour party.

    Hamnida standing up for the 0.001% of pols majors who aren’t shit people since a few hundred comments ago.

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  54. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Who says I have a pols major? I have an economics major.

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  55. dai (11 comments) says:

    Whatever gives you the idea that the US democrats are left wing

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  56. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    Luke

    “So you’d be OK with cutting Romney’s taxes to almost zero whilst increasing the tax on those below 35K?”

    Yep, no problem at all with that.

    As for Lucia…well it comes as no surprise. The woman is bloody evil.

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  57. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    I must admit the Republicans have some classy candidates. How about that fella from T.V Donald Trump? Maybe he could stand again, that would pull the votes in.

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  58. salt (119 comments) says:

    EWS: “numbers please”

    The Atlantic article quoted above contains a link to stats saying that just over 32,000 pregnancies every year result from rape – leading to an estimate that 5% of rapes result in a pregnancy. All things considered, that is around about the same odds as falling pregnant from a consensual sexual encounter (given that for almost half of each month, women can’t conceive).

    Ross69: call me a terrible atheist cynic, but I tend to treat any article about reproduction published by a website called ‘Christian answers’ with a hearty grain of salt.

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  59. Fairfacts Media (370 comments) says:

    I Akin is a dinosaur for his cmments, what about British Respect MP George Galloway.
    Apparantly iy is not rape to screw a woman while she is asleep.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2012/aug/21/george-galloway-julian-assange-sexual-rape-video

    Come on now, where is the outrage!!!

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  60. Johnboy (13,439 comments) says:

    What is the moral position if your wife goes to sleep while you are screwing her? :)

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  61. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    Why would that bother you Johnboy?, there are plenty more sheep in the paddock. :)

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  62. Johnboy (13,439 comments) says:

    True, one can select another at ramdom!

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  63. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    I guess, but every once in a while you must get sick of blondes?

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  64. Hamnida (905 comments) says:

    Women bashing by Neolibs alert.

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  65. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    JB

    Do you think the 16 year old troll is talking about us?

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  66. Johnboy (13,439 comments) says:

    I’ve always kept a couple of black sheep in my flock, just so as they are easier to count mainly, least that’s what I tell folks! :)

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  67. salt (119 comments) says:

    So I just read the article you linked to, Ross69. The ‘evidence’ quoted was another article, which said “a number of studies have shown that pregnancy from rape is very uncommon.” So I looked up that article (which is from the 1980s). It isn’t actually an article: it is a review of three books, one of which includes some discussion of the idea that pregnancy due to rape is infrequent. The information that this idea is discussed, is the only reference to this question in the entire article. There’s no indication of what the book’s conclusion on that question was.

    I consider it utterly disingenuous of Christiananswers.org to have presented this as evidence that “a number of studies have shown that pregnancy from rape is uncommon”. I can’t say I’m too surprised, though.

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  68. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    Stop Press!!!

    Bible bashers and Sky Fairy followers tell lies….more at 10.00pm.

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  69. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    JB

    Are the black sheep called D4J and Redbaiter?

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  70. Johnboy (13,439 comments) says:

    No. I call them Oprah and Michelle….Why do you ask?

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  71. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    Only for the reason that every flock has a couple of misfits or nutbars.

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  72. Tauhei Notts (1,513 comments) says:

    Best sentence on Kiwiblog today.
    Alex at 4.34 p.m.
    “It’s simple fucking biology, you idiot.”

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  73. salt (119 comments) says:

    Oh wait wait Big Bruv, there IS more! The Christiananswers.org article also says, and I quote, that “pregnancy can be eliminated in ALL rape cases if the victim receives immediate medical treatment to remove all male semen from her uterus” (footnoted to a 1975 article). Holy shit, there’s a medical procedure that does that??? WHY WEREN’T WE TOLD

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  74. big bruv (12,389 comments) says:

    Salt

    I have heard of that, in some places it is called douche bag, more commonly referred to in NZ as a Mallard.

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  75. Liberal Minded Kiwi (1,560 comments) says:

    Hamnida – still waiting for the quote about the Prebble’s Rebels supporting it. I know the exact incident you’re talking about and the bloke in question was associated with PR through friends, but is now in the Green Party and considers himself an anarcho-socialist.

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  76. Johnboy (13,439 comments) says:

    An old urban myth says that if you shake a bottle of Coke and apply it to the affected area it does the deed salt.

    Thank Gaia for Global Corporates eh? :)

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  77. salt (119 comments) says:

    Funnily enough, johnboy, I suspect that actually would do the trick.

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  78. Dazzaman (1,114 comments) says:

    I don’t see what the outrage is all about? Aside from the fact that I’d never take anyone called Todd seriously.

    What is outrageous is that you still think the National party is NOT to the left of the political spectrum…a step or two closer to the center than Labour but certainly not to the right…NZ doesn’t have an option solidly to the right, ACT on a good day but….

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  79. The Peanut Monster (19 comments) says:

    This is a prime example of the disturbing way in which morality and politics are so inextricably linked in the US. DPF’s point highlights that the New Zealand right can – to a greater or lesser extent – disconnect their social, economic policies from their own personal morality. Not so in the US where (paradoxically) the freedom for individuals to make their own decisions – say about abortion – is actually seen as political complicity in those decisions. The moral issue is connected to the political one. The result? It produces nuts like this.

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  80. UrbanNeocolonialist (136 comments) says:

    I read somewhere that during the 90′s Balkans war it was found that women were actually far more likely to get pregnant from being raped than from normal sex. Not sure why, but it would make sense from an evolutionary point of view (helps to get into the good graces of conquerers if you are are having a baby by one of them).

    It would make Akin 100% wrong, but that is not particularly surprising for a modern Republican party that bases much of its opinion on the schizophrenic ramblings of long dead goat-herds.

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  81. The Peanut Monster (19 comments) says:

    Akin has now issued a televised apology: http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/todd-akin-apologizes-asks-for-forgiveness/2012/08/21/0dfc1cd2-eba1-11e1-b811-09036bcb182b_video.html

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  82. Thrash Cardiom (298 comments) says:

    White American Republican says something dumb…………world fucking headlines. Vast arsehole conspiracy.

    George Galloway’s made a dick of himself,anybody care? Nope,cos he’s a leftwing twit who loves Islamic loonies.

    and

    I Akin is a dinosaur for his cmments, what about British Respect MP George Galloway.
    Apparantly iy is not rape to screw a woman while she is asleep.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/video/2012/aug/21/george-galloway-julian-assange-sexual-rape-video

    Come on now, where is the outrage!!!

    Here is some of it:

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=10828546

    and here are a few more links for you

    https://www.google.co.nz/#hl=en&safe=off&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=galloway+assange+outrage&oq=galloway+assange+outrage&gs_l=hp.3…825.6732.0.6849.28.25.2.1.1.0.260.5491.2-24.24.0…0.0…1c.2ycF7Yx2pHM&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=8cc00cb51ae07e22&biw=1263&bih=935

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  83. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    I read somewhere that during the 90′s Balkans war it was found that women were actually far more likely to get pregnant from being raped than from normal sex.

    There’s some logic behind that.
    - Rape can involve women who are not sexually active.
    - Women who are raped are less likely to be prepared with contraception.
    - The rapists are less likely to use contraception (in many cases of ethnic rape they deliberately don’t use contraception).
    - It removes any chance of planned timing that reduces chances of becoming pregnant.

    And in situations like in the Balkans it’s likely abortions weren’t readily available.

    Having said that – this explains. Warning, it’s bloody awful to read.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_Bosnian_War

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  84. Pete George (21,831 comments) says:

    “”For the Serbs, the desire to degrade, humiliate, and impregnate Bosnian Muslim women with ‘little Chetniks’ was paramount. Women were forced to go full term with their pregnancies and give birth.”

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  85. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    Isaiah 13:16

    Their little children will be dashed to death before their eyes.
    Their homes will be sacked, and their wives will be raped.

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  86. scrubone (2,972 comments) says:

    cha: and I can provide many quotes of Ayn Rand’s writing that praise collective thinking.

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  87. scrubone (2,972 comments) says:

    I remember the ‘Prebbles Rebels’ saying similar stuff in the 1990s. Tried to blame rape on what young women were wearing.

    [DPF: I think you are trolling. I recall no such thing]

    He’s not trolling.

    It was 1998, in Critic. Bit hard to miss at the time.

    Name’s on the tip of my tounge… maybe I’ll remember later.

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  88. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    True scrubone but the old speed freaks how to manual didn’t include an instruction to use rape as a weapon of war.

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  89. scrubone (2,972 comments) says:

    cha: my point was that your quote is taken out of context.

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  90. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    my point was that your quote is taken out of context.

    How so?.

    UrbanNeocolonialist mentioned the Balkans war so my citing of Isaiah was relevant to the reality that rape as a weapon of war is as old as man himself.

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  91. scrubone (2,972 comments) says:

    UrbanNeocolonialist mentioned the Balkans war so my citing of Isaiah was relevant to the reality that rape as a weapon of war is as old as man himself.

    If that was the point you were making, I have no problem with it.

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  92. scrubone (2,972 comments) says:

    1. HE is also in favour of the state forcibly committing sexual assault on a woman who requests an abortion.

    And you call *other people* morons.

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  93. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    the state forcibly committing sexual assault

    So despite evidence to the contrary a mandate that requires one of these to be shoved up you is something you agree with?

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  94. BlairM (2,266 comments) says:

    Great quote from Rush Limbaugh:

    The… reason we assemble the firing squad is because, in this case, this guy really said something indefensibly stupid. Regardless his intentions. I know exactly what he was trying to say. But frankly I’m tired of stupidity in politics. I’m tired of it! I’m tired of being smarter than the leaders in this country. I want people I can look up to, not people that embarrass me. In both parties. I’m sick and tired of being smarter than all these people… I know what’s in the guy’s heart. But, I’m sorry, if he can’t ‘splain it, then get out! It’s not that hard. It’s not that hard to say, “It’s not the baby’s fault.” That’s all he’s trying to say. Just say that instead of this rigmarole about the woman’s body “shuts down”? For crying out loud!

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  95. PaulL (5,776 comments) says:

    cha: last ultrasound I had didn’t involve insertion. And most pregnant mothers I know have ultrasounds, not many of them seem to regard it as sexual assault – so it either doesn’t involve insertion, or people think that’s a reasonable thing to do.

    Are you saying that there’s a mandate that it must be an ultrasound that involves insertion of the transducer? Or just that some doctors do that (in which case, I’d recommend getting another doctor).

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  96. Dazzaman (1,114 comments) says:

    Insertion during an ultrasound? Whoever heard of such a thing? Was it one of those humming long translucent pink ones with a little knob near the end of it?…No, I’ve never seen one like that in the scanning room either… =s

    Aside from the fact that most doctors don’t actually operate the machine, the closest it gets to “insertion” may only ever be around the panty line at the lowest point….someone needs to go to a different medical center.

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  97. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    In other news in the GOP Ron Paul can still win teh Tampa GOP nomination no matter how hard the GOP tried to stimy his candidacy.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/laura-trice/gop-scared-ron-paul_b_1814846.html

    He did win the required five states to speak at Tampa and a little more

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  98. hinamanu (2,352 comments) says:

    Just in. Ron Paul picks up 17 more candidates

    Ron Paul picks up 17 Republican convention delegates in Louisiana compromise

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/ron-paul-picks-up-17-republican-convention-delegates-in-louisiana-compromise/2012/08/21/2271812a-ebd3-11e1-866f-60a00f604425_story.html

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  99. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    Are you saying that there’s a mandate that it must be an ultrasound that involves insertion of the transducer?

    Insertion during an ultrasound?

    LMGTFY

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  100. PaulL (5,776 comments) says:

    Second result:

    The revised bill requires women to have an ultrasound before getting an abortion, but says that they cannot be forced to have a vaginal

    Are you suggesting I read each of those results individually to work out which ended up in a state that required a mandatory vaginal ultrasound (which was a phrase I hadn’t heard of before, so probably wouldn’t have googled).

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  101. cha (3,547 comments) says:

    http://www.guttmacher.org/statecenter/spibs/spib_RFU.pdf

    12 states require verbal counseling or written materials to include information on accessing ultrasound services.
     21 states regulate the provision of ultrasound by abortion providers.
     2 states mandate that an abortion provider perform an ultrasound on each women seeking an abortion and
    requires the provider to show and describe the image.
     6 states mandate that an abortion provider perform an ultrasound on each woman seeking an abortion, and
    require the provider to offer the woman the opportunity to view the image.
     9 states require that a woman be provided with the opportunity to view an ultrasound image if her provider
    performs the procedure as part of the preparation for an abortion.
     5 states require that a woman be provided with the opportunity to view an ultrasound image.

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  102. PaulL (5,776 comments) says:

    Cha: none of those appear to mandate a vaginal ultrasound, which I’ve learned today is the one that requires insertion. So I’m not sure that’s relevant to the original assertion.

    On the vaginal ultrasound, presumably this is a legitimate medical procedure that people often undergo (so I find it hard to classify as sexual assault), but I’d agree it sounds less pleasant than an ultrasound from the outside.

    And BTW, I’ll happily agree that the govt shouldn’t mandate any ultrasound at all. My only objection is what I considered an over the top characterisation of it as sexual assault, and also I was surprised that there were any significant volume that required insertion v’s just a normal ultrasound – first I’d heard of that. So I’m probably “on your side” as it were, just disagreeing with what appeared an over-the-top description.

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  103. RRM (8,997 comments) says:

    Got your Todd Akin Legitimate Rape Kit yet?

    http://www.ourstoriesuntold.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/o-TODD-AKIN-RAPE-KIT-900.jpg
    :-)

    I wonder if Todd Akin has considered running for the Taliban? His ideas on female sexuality would be a good fit
    with them.

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  104. Matthew Flannagan (61 comments) says:

    David wrote
    “Sadly a fair proportion of rape victims do get pregnant to their rapist, and have the anguishing decision about what to then do.”

    Sorry David but this is bull shit:

    In the literature incidences of pregnancy resulting from rape vary from 0-2.2%.[1] Several studies found no pregnancies from rape in their samples.[2] There are several reasons for this. There is a 1-in-25 to a 1-in-50[3] chance of pregnancy occurring from normal intercourse. Also, consider that rape is not always intercourse; some rapes do not involve penile penetration and even with those that do there is a high rate of sexual dysfunction amongst those who engage in sexual assault.[4] Moreover, not all rape victims are of child-rearing age. In addition, some are using oral contraception at the time of the attack or are not ovulating when it occurs. In fact, even if the woman is ovulating, there is only a 1-10 chance she will fall pregnant.

    [1]The studies are: 1.) R. Everett & G. Kumers, “The Rape Victim a Review of 117 Consecutive Cases,” Obstetrics and Gynecology 50:1 (1977): 88-90; 2.) J. J. Everand & D. Gold, “Epidemiology and Management of Sexual Assault Victims,” Obstetrics and Gynaecology, 53:3 (1979): 381-87; 3.) C. Hayman, “Rape in the District of Columbia,” American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 113:2 (1972): 91-97; 4.) C. Lanza & C. Hayman, “Sexual Assault on Women and Girls,” American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology 109:3 (1971): 480-486; 5.) P. Poma & R. Septo, “Rape a Community Hospital Study,” Illinois Medical Journal 154:1 (1978): 25-28; 6) M. Soules, “The Spectrum of Alleged Rape,” The Journal of Reproductive Medicine 17:1 (1978): 33-39.
    [2] Ibid. Specifically studies 1.), 2.), 5.) and 6.).
    [3] C. Tieze, “The Probability of Pregnancy Resulting from a Single Unprotected Coitus,” Fertility and Sterility 11:5 (1960): 485-488.
    [4] N. Groth and A. Burgess, “Sexual Dysfunction during Rape,” New England Journal of Medicine 297:14 (1977): 764-766. Groth and Burgess found sexual dysfunction in 57% of 101 cases evaluated. In 26% of cases, there was difficulty ejaculating (the normal difficulty rate in males is 1-700 men). Lorenne M G. Clark and Debra J. Lewis, Rape: The Price of Coercive Sexuality (Toronto: The Women’s Press, 1977) found in one third of cases orgasm either was not achieved or achieved only with difficulty.

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  105. PaulL (5,776 comments) says:

    Matthew: A lot of those references are very old – from the 70s. Are there no more recent studies? The age of those studies just leads me to think they perhaps are no longer authoritative.

    Even at 2% – which by your numbers is about the same for normal sex (1 in 50) that is still a lot of women. I guess the question is what the interpretation is of “fair proportion.”

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  106. alex (298 comments) says:

    @ Matthew – You have completely and utterly missed the point.

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  107. Matthew Flannagan (61 comments) says:

    Alex ,What was that, that when a person makes an accurate claim and then says something else which is questionable, and his doing so undermines a trendy liberal cause. Liberal commentators can rejoin by making false claims in response and simply asserting them as true.

    Paul L 2% was the highest figure, many found the figure to be at 0, which however you phrase it is not a “fair proportion”, as to a lot of women, read the stats of the abortion supervisory commitee and see how many abortions happen each a year on the basis of alleged rape.

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  108. Luke Mutton (247 comments) says:

    Mathew, does it matter if it is 50% or 5% any %? All that matters is a woamn has been raped, is pregnant, through no fault of her own, and you think it is right to defend this useless POS.

    I discovered something today that is even more disgusting than this arsewipe Atkin – in 31 US states the RAPIST has all the rights due to a father, and can use the law to continue his victimisation.

    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/08/22/opinion/prewitt-rapist-visitation-rights/index.html?eref=mrss_igoogle_cnn

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  109. Matthew Flannagan (61 comments) says:

    Luke, so basically your position is the facts don’t matter, you can make claims that are questionable as providing the cause you have is one you think is correct. Sorry I don’t agree.

    As to me defending “this useless POS” try reading I did not defend his POV comments, nor did I condone it. I simply pointed out that David’s dismissal of everything he said was questionable. That’s how sensible analysis differs from political cheer leading. Sensible analysis is able to note that one thing a person says is true even when you disagree with other things he says.

    I am inclined to think the issue of abortion and rape is actually quite a difficult one, if you have read the literature on Thomson’s violinist the definitive article on the topic some of it is rather difficult.

    As to rapists having all the rights of father, I don’t support them having all the rights such as custody and visitation. However there is something to be said for saying the rapist is responsible for bringing the child into the world and so must pay the costs of care, that actually seems to me quite just particularly to the women who is burdened by raising the child, making the rapist pay child support seems to me part of fair restitution.

    But note no one was talking about whether rapists should have full parental rights, so bringing that issue up as though it some how addressed my points when it does not is irrelevant.

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  110. salt (119 comments) says:

    Matthew.

    It is true that not many articles decrying Akin have gone into detail of explaining why he is wrong. That is because they have assumed that everyone knows that such a claim is bullsh*t – women’s reproductive systems cannot and do not “lock down” that way.

    Clearly this assumption was wrong in your case, so here’s a basic biology lesson for you. Stressful situations can disrupt ovulatory cycles, sure – but the stress would have had to happen days before the sexual encounter. Your state of mind at the time of the rape doesn’t change a thing – if it’s that time of the month the egg has already been released, is travelling down the fallopian tubes, and if it encounters a strong-enough-willed sperm it will be fertilised. In summary, ongoing stress can affect your chances of conceiving, but the fact that a particular sexual encounter was stressful will have no, I repeat no, effect on whether you conceive from that encounter.

    Besides the fact that 2% isn’t actually too far off the likelihood of getting pregnant from a consensual sexual encounter, the studies you quote are nearly forty years old. Only a couple of decades before that, doctors believed that women and men had different physiological systems for breathing. Studies that old simply do not hold any authority now, if there is not more current research to back them up.

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