Russel wants Finance and seven Ministers

December 4th, 2012 at 10:00 am by David Farrar

Green Party leader is reported on 3 News:

The and are already fighting over how a left-wing coalition would work, following a 3 News Reid-Research poll that shows they could form a government together.

Greens co-leader Russel Norman wants to be Minister of Finance, and is demanding his MPs make up to a third of the Cabinet.

“It’s one of the portfolios that will be on the table,” says Dr Norman. “It will be part of the negotiating mix.”

Yes, that’s right: Dr Norman wants to control the country’s finances. He would be in charge of the Budget.

Quick go buy those shares in Xerox now, before NZ gives them the contact to start printing more money!

But Mr Shearer had a one word answer about giving him the job – “no”.

Shearer can say that now, but the reality is it will all depend on the relative vote of Labour and Greens, if they get to form a Government. If Labour gets 40% and Greens 10% then no they won’t. If Labour got 30% and Greens 15% then I’d say they would get it.

So Dr Norman’s demands go on. He wants a “proportional Cabinet” that reflects the Greens’ presence. That would mean five to seven ministerial roles.

“That would be the fair approach,” says Dr Norman.

“That would seem to be the fair way to do it,” says Mr Shearer.

So Dr Norman wants Finance, Metiria Turei could get Social Development, Kevin Hague may get Health, Kennedy Graham could go for Trade, Eugenie Sage for the Christchurch rebuild, Gareth Hughes with Energy and Catherine Delahunty with Education.

A welfare minister who believes every family, no matter how wealthy,  should be receiving welfare. A trade minister against trade. An energy minister against energy. That will be fun.

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58 Responses to “Russel wants Finance and seven Ministers”

  1. Brad (75 comments) says:

    That would be the Greens ultimate wishlist, but I don’t see them getting many of those portfolios. They’ll presumably be given the environment trifecta of environment/climate change/conservation. The two co-leaders would be the only Greens remotely capable of sitting in cabinet

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  2. MarkF (100 comments) says:

    Bring on the popcorn!
    Will this be filmed in 3D at 48fps?

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  3. Pete George (23,436 comments) says:

    Here is more detailed Green ‘speculation’ on who in Labour and Greens should get ministerial roles: http://thestandard.org.nz/ministers-in-a-labgreen-govt/

    That’s basd on current MPs (that will change) and current proportins of poll support. A lot could happen and change before the election, and during the election.

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  4. Cunningham (837 comments) says:

    Keep talking about this Russell. The more this sort of thing gets discussed, the more people will be frightened off the left as the election looms closer and it becomes a possible reality. The next election is going to be fascinating.

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  5. jaba (2,120 comments) says:

    this is fantastic for National .. they now have an attack point .. the Gweens will be under more and more scrutiny and Key needs to keep the possibility at the forefront

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  6. flipper (3,950 comments) says:

    From world’s best practice economic administration to a “phud” in Jim Anderton’s Porgressive Party.

    Yep, the entitlemernt twits that re-elected the law lecturer/community organiser in the US look set to try a repeat here in 2014 – all supported by the MSM.

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  7. anonymouse (709 comments) says:

    and Winston gets to sit where in this mythical cabinet????

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  8. sparky (235 comments) says:

    Just reading this line up, is a nightmare. If it wasn’t terrifying it would be laughable. God Help NZ, if this was ever to happen.

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  9. Reid (16,227 comments) says:

    this is fantastic for National

    Yes it is jaba. Wussell doesn’t seem to understand that if he’s got 1 in 10 people who support him, this means there are 9 in 10 who don’t, and all of those will be very susceptible to the economic vandal message.

    What I find fantastic is the Gweens give no sign of understanding the very basic truth that most people think they’re fools. And the more the GFC continues to bite, the less people will be inclined to indulge them. If times were good some of those 9 in 10 might possibly take a punt just to see what it was like, but in these times which will continue for the foreseeable future, none of those are going to risk it.

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  10. sparky (235 comments) says:

    We will be voting National, there is no way we want a bumbling Shearer, or a give me back my flag Norman. That is just too much to digest.

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  11. RRM (9,784 comments) says:

    For some reason I feel like we’ve discussed this already. Oh wait… we have!
    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2012/10/will_the_greens_get_finance.html#comment-1040656

    I’ll say it again… won’t happen.

    Russel: :grin: We want the Finance Ministry.

    Cunners: :lol: LOL!

    Russel: :neutral: No, seriously. We want the Finance portfolio.

    Cunners: :???: No. You would be a bad joke in that role.

    Russel: :evil: Fuck you we’re leaving then. Se if you can form a coalition without us.

    Cunners: :-) And where else are YOU gonna go? Your mates the National Party?

    Russel: Oh that’s right… :cry:

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  12. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    RRM,

    Except Russel then retorts: “Do you want another 3 years on the Opposition benches?”

    Labour Leader responds: “Ah, yes. Point taken. You can’t be Deputy PM though.”

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  13. YesWeDid (1,048 comments) says:

    So just so I’m clear, we are meant to be fearful of the Greens getting a proportion of the Ministerial positions in a Labour-Green government based on the proportion of MP’s they bring into the coalition, yet it’s OK for ACT to bring in 1 MP who gets a Ministerial position with only 1% of the vote, who also gets a flag ship charter schools policy and who was recently described as the worse performing MP in parliament with a 0/10 rating.

    Right got it.

    And that is ignoring the Maori party Ministers who don’t bother turning up to give their own speeches.

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  14. sparky (235 comments) says:

    Don’t count your chickens before there Hatched, Wussel.

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  15. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    @YesWeDid,

    No. We are meant to be scared witless that the Greens would get power to cripple our economy, destroy our trade and increase the cost of living, meanwhile with their govt spending like crazy to maintain welfare dependency.

    Labour would undermine the prosperity of NZ and our people. The Greens, in the positions they are seeking, would fundamentally destroy it.

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  16. tom1980 (41 comments) says:

    @bhudson

    I’ll take lazy non-performers over hysterical extremists any day of the week…

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  17. dime (9,796 comments) says:

    RRM – followed by Dunne

    “My salary and perks wont change right? and ill still be mr sensible?”

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  18. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Only a population dominated by illiterates, morons, crooks, Luddites, bludgers and imbeciles could elect a Labour-Green government.

    If it comes to pass, NZ would have the government it deserves.

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  19. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    A welfare minister who believes every family, no matter how wealthy, should be receiving welfare.

    I know this will greatly disappoint DPF, but the academic literature is increasingly showing that broadbased measures, with an aggressively progressive tax system capturing unneeded payments to the wealthy, is far more effective at improving the lot of the less fortunate than so-called targeted spending, which is now developing quite a long history of failure.

    [DPF: Cite some. I have a lot of academic references that taxing people more to give it back to them in welfare is hugely inefficient and this churn is a deadweight cost on the economy.]

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  20. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    I’ll take lazy non-performers over hysterical extremists any day of the week…

    tom1980,

    I’m sure Labour will welcome your vote…

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  21. Luc Hansen (4,573 comments) says:

    Luddites

    Your are fond of that particular epithet, yet you are the one who wants to stick with the 150 year old technology of burning sequestered decomposed organic matter and being unwilling to adopt cleaner and cheaper (in economic terms) modern renewable technology such as wind, solar, tidal and 4th generation nuclear power as advocated by NASA’s premier climate scientist.

    An example of cognitive meets dissonance, I suppose.

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  22. Reid (16,227 comments) says:

    So just so I’m clear, we are meant to be fearful of the Greens getting a proportion of the Ministerial positions in a Labour-Green government based on the proportion of MP’s they bring into the coalition, yet it’s OK for ACT to bring in 1 MP who gets a Ministerial position with only 1% of the vote, who also gets a flag ship charter schools policy and who was recently described as the worse performing MP in parliament with a 0/10 rating.

    That’s exactly right Yes We Did.

    The difference is, you would give a chainsaw to a responsible adult, you wouldn’t give it to a child. That’s the difference. It’s a well known principal of life here on Planet Earth and everyone practices it all the time. The only people to whom this principle and the rationale for it is not apparent, are the children themselves, in this case, the Gweens and their supporters.

    Hope that helps.

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  23. RF (1,370 comments) says:

    This is pure gold. JK will have a smile from ear to ear watching that lot implode. Stock up with popcorn.

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  24. Bob (496 comments) says:

    One thing to bear in mind if there is a Labour Greens government the Greens would have to start by facing hard headed departmental heads. They would push some sense into them. You would know their influence by the massive backdowns by the Greens over their policies.

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  25. s.russell (1,601 comments) says:

    Between elections, polls are driven almost entirely by dis/satisfaction with the Government. As John Armstrong writes in the Herald, “12 months of unrelenting mini-scandals, sideshows and distractions” have eroded National support.

    But when election time rolls around, ordinary people will wake up and start to look at whether the Opposition would make a credible Government. That is when the calibre of the left’s personnel and the left’s indulgence in loopy policies will come under scrutiny – to damaging effect.

    Or so we must hope and pray…..

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  26. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Bob, I’m sorry but you misunderstand the Luddites. They are fanatics, hell-bent in advancing their communist ideology regardless of the price to pay.

    The NZ economy will plummet and crash through the floor in a few months if comrade Norman becomes Finance Minister and a Minister of the Crown.

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  27. Griff (7,387 comments) says:

    wind, solar, tidal and 4th generation nuclear power

    Luc why do you and the rest of the left ignore the two proven efficient and cheap sources of renewable energy.
    Hydro and geothermal

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  28. backster (2,141 comments) says:

    Julie Anne should get Transport. It would be great for the horsedrawn carriage industry.

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  29. Nigel Kearney (971 comments) says:

    The nature of MMP is that the Greens will continue to gain support as long as they stay out of government and never have to back up their words with actions. It’s better they have a spell in government before they get too big, so that the backlash from people actually seeing the Greens in charge will be enough to send them back below 5%. It would be a shitty three years but may be worth it if we’re rid of them for good.

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  30. Prince (102 comments) says:

    Forget the Xerox shares, they are an evil multinational. Look to a Coromandel family recycling toilet paper and using lemon juice mixed with hemp for ink. Likely to be worth more than the currency by then.

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  31. barry (1,317 comments) says:

    Ha Ha Ha……. Labour is facing the reality of being a bunch of morons.

    Theyve lost all their supporters by going all identity politics and now that they will rely on the Gweens – who will have a third of the coalition – then they will have to give them a third of the posts.

    Ha bloody Ha.

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  32. Rich Prick (1,666 comments) says:

    I see from reports Delahunty is likely to be Minister of Education. We’re fucked.

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  33. bhudson (4,736 comments) says:

    Likely to be worth more than the currency by then.

    Invest in a wheelbarrow manufacturing operation. Their value was proven in the Weimar Republic.

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  34. tvb (4,326 comments) says:

    Labour would rather form a minority government and have confidence and supply with the Greens. But the Greens are demanding portfolios in cabinet. Labour cannot resist this and will have to give way. Saying no to finance so early is not a good start. But maybe they can agree to a Treasurer/Finance split. But there are many other egos to soothe in Labour and they have to wear this or stay in opposition. Norman will be deputy PM and Labour will have to wear that too.

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  35. tom1980 (41 comments) says:

    Anyone curious to know just how fucked this country would be under a Gween/Labour coalition should read how their ideological equal Hugo Chavez in Venezuela is getting on, to whit:

    http://www.economist.com/news/americas/21567381-inefficiency-promoting-autarky-perhaps-design-cancelling-christmas

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  36. toad (3,674 comments) says:

    @Rich Prick 11:23 am

    No-one could do a worse job in that portfolio than Parata has managed over the last 12 months – even made Tolloy look almost competent.

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  37. OneTrack (2,981 comments) says:


    I’m sure Labour will welcome your vote…

    Luc Hansen (4,566) Says:
    December 4th, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Luddites

    Your are fond of that particular epithet, yet you are the one who wants to stick with the 150 year old technology of burning sequestered decomposed organic matter and being unwilling to adopt cleaner and cheaper (in economic terms) modern renewable technology such as wind, solar, tidal and 4th generation nuclear power as advocated by NASA’s premier climate scientist.

    An example of cognitive meets dissonance, I suppose.”

    I don’t see our Green party supporting nuclear power of any generation. Do you? And how is that wind, solar and tidal working for you so far. Solar. Nah, doesnt happen – maybe one day. Tidal – few production installations, none in NZ. Wind – hugely unreliable, expensive, polluting (neodymium mining) and needs hydro or gas backup. The Greens don’t like either of those backing options.

    What do they really want? They want us to turn the power off, and go back to 1840 when life was “good” and everyone could commune with Gaia. I think Luddite describes them pretty well. Hypocrites also come to mind – Gareth Hughes and Kennedy Graham and their predilection for air travel for a start – telling other people that they need to save the planet and stop flying. Yeah, right.

    Cognitive dissonance, maybe. But who are we talking about is the real question. Take your rose-coloured glasses off and just think for a few seconds about what life would really be like under a Red (I mean Green of course) government. The dairy sector would be crushed, private businesses would be taxed to death, free-trade agreements cancelled, etc. Tell us Luc, what would that country look like.

    That is why Russel is getting his printing press ready. Because there will be no other way of creating money in a Red governed New Zealand (oh I forgot, that should be Aotearoa) with the new constitution being a direct copy of the Maori version of the Treay of Waitangi.

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  38. Morgy (172 comments) says:

    Well at least West Papua will be sorted :)

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  39. Rich Prick (1,666 comments) says:

    You are welcome to your opinion Toad, but at least Parata isn’t certifiable.

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  40. Harriet (4,794 comments) says:

    Under a Green government we’ll be able to get drugs from the supermarket 24/7 and bread on Wednesdays! :cool:

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  41. sparky (235 comments) says:

    @Rich Prick 11:23 am

    No-one could do a worse job in that portfolio than Parata has managed over the last 12 months – even made Tolloy look almost competent.

    You would have to be joking Delahunty with portfolio for education, OMG, my kids would be taught at home, with that moron in charge. She is a nut case.

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  42. jaba (2,120 comments) says:

    lUC ABOVE SAYS “..such as wind, solar, tidal and 4th generation nuclear power”
    now, anyone who want to create a wind farm will have NIMBY’s all over them. Sloar power costs a fortune and the techology seems flawed as far as longiventy of the panels. Tidal power is a no go because of dolphins and fish and don’t mention nuclear power. I thought Luc was a Gweenie?

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  43. davidp (3,576 comments) says:

    Surely Norman and Turei would be Co-Finance Ministers?

    Add Peters as Minister of Foreign Affairs (again), Andrew Williams, Hone Harawira, and someone from the Maori Party as Minister of Maori Affairs and you’ll have rounded out this potential coalition of losers.

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  44. Keeping Stock (10,267 comments) says:

    Now Petrobras has announced that it is pulling out of its proposed oil exploration off the East Coast, even after the High Court affirmed its licence to do so. And the Greens’ Expert on Everything Gareth Hughes is gloating about it. Where does he think the jet fuel for all those flights comes from?

    It’s another lost opportunity for economic growth and for jobs in one of the poorer parts of the country, but the Greens are glad about it. So much for their concern for those supposedly in poverty. The Greens are not a part of the solution for New Zealand’s economic ills; there are a part of the problem…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2012/12/thanks-for-nothing-green-party.html

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  45. Viking2 (11,368 comments) says:

    jaba (1,834) Says:
    December 4th, 2012 at 10:12 am

    this is fantastic for National .. they now have an attack point .. the Gweens will be under more and more scrutiny and Key needs to keep the possibility at the forefront
    ———-

    Hell, he can’t remember who visited him last week in a fancy aeroplane so you shouldn’t expect him to remember this next year.

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  46. krazykiwi (9,186 comments) says:

    I see from reports Delahunty is likely to be Minister of Education. We’re fucked

    No, no. New Zealand employers are crying out for a new generation of bhuddist fleece-throwing experts who’ll sing instead of talk.

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  47. nonpartisan (41 comments) says:

    I see from reports Delahunty is likely to be Minister of Education. We’re fucked

    And compulsory Maori language will be at the top of her list I’m sure. My six year-old told us out of the blue a few weeks back – without any influence from her parents – that she found the Kapa Haka and associated “cultural” activities at her school “really boring Dad”. I don’t know what to tell her other than “suck it up Princess, it ain’t gonna get any better”.

    National need to sharpen their act up real fast if this Labour/Green nightmare isn’t to become a reality in 2014, but it’s inevitable in the longterm thanks to our wonderful system of MMP which seems custom-designed to allow nutjobs into parliament.

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  48. Richard29 (377 comments) says:

    The table on that Standard post showing potential ministers is quite cool. I’m curious to see DPF’s take on that when he inevitably publishes it (probably with reference to the current iPredict polling for the positions)

    RRM is correct – the ‘tail wagging the dog’ theory is seriously overstated. The Greens will have a choice between taking what is offered or refusing to form a government (meaning either a snap election or a Labour/National grand coalition).

    Unless Labour’s offer to the Greens is so completely low ball that they look completely unreasonable then it is safe to say that the public will blame the Greens if coalition talks break down. Shearer may not be great in front of a camera, but he has years of experience holding high stakes negotiations with armed parties in warzones – I’m guessing Metiria and Russel will blink first…

    Labour’s goal at 2014 will be to get sufficient numbers to be able to form a centrist coalition with NZFirst/Maori/United. Even if they would prefer to go into coalition with the Greens – Shearer having a plan B would dramatically reduce the Greens bargaining power.

    I would not discount the possibility that the Greens will get neither Deputy PM or Finance – if they do get one of these it’s likely to be Deputy PM so that Labout can paint themselves as the economic managers.

    It’s worth remembering that as a list only party with a very democratic list and leadership ranking structure that the dynamics are slightly different for the Greens. For a normal MP in an electorate seat becoming a minister has huge benefits – all the free publicity and photo ops ensure your future electability and place you in a powerful position in caucus for future list rankings etc. For the Greens – if it looks like Russel has put his ego and personal career opportunities over policy wins the membership will probably turf him way down the list and give the co-leadership to somebody else.

    I would expect the Green positions to be linked to the specific policy wins or areas where they have expertise as a technocrat:

    Norman –> SOE and Economic Development –> 1 Bn on Green economic policy on boosting renewable export sector

    Turei –> Social Development –> Replace WFF with a Universal Child Benefit

    Hague –> Health –> Oversee a few prevention and primary healthcare policies based on his experience as a DHB CEO

    Genter –> Transport –> Oversee the Auckland Central Rail Loop based on her experience as a transport planner

    Sage –> Environment –> Oversee water pricing and irrigation in Canterbury –> based on her experience in Environment Canterbury

    Mathers –> Disability –> Because she’s deaf so she looks more credible than a Labour person and nobody much cares about the portfolio anyway.

    Most of the top 10 on the Green list would get some kind of associate ministerial post where a Labour Minister can keep an eye on them.

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  49. scrubone (3,091 comments) says:

    I don’t know what to tell her other than “suck it up Princess, it ain’t gonna get any better”.

    Tell her you’ll teach her at home.

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  50. Spam (588 comments) says:

    Norman –> SOE and Economic Development –> 10 Bn on Green economic policy on boosting renewable export sector paid for by increased taxes

    Turei –> Social Development –> increase WFF with a Universal Child Benefit paid for by increased taxes

    Hague –> Health –> Oversee a few prevention and primary healthcare policies based on his experience as a DHB CEO promoting holistic healing, paid for by increased taxes

    Genter –> Transport –> Oversee the Auckland Central Rail Loop based on her experience as a transport planner. cancel all new roads. Paid for by increased taxes

    Sage –> Environment –> Oversee water pricing and irrigation in Canterbury –> based on her experience in Environment Canterbury stopping all farm irrigation. Paid for by increased taxes

    FTFY.

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  51. RF (1,370 comments) says:

    Pee wee Hughes has got to be Minister of Transport. An expert on 1st Class Travel.

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  52. Mark (1,471 comments) says:

    Norman will not be given finance by labour and more than Peter Sharples will get it for a National / Maori coalition. I suspect it will be a bottom line issue for Labour.

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  53. Mark (1,471 comments) says:

    Rich Prick (1,070) Says:
    December 4th, 2012 at 11:23 am
    I see from reports Delahunty is likely to be Minister of Education. We’re fucked.

    Delahunty will only be very marginally worse than Parata’s current level of incompetence one expects

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  54. Key is our man (872 comments) says:

    This is real people, very real. It is happening in 2014. NZ deserves this.

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  55. infused (652 comments) says:

    Next election is going to be a cluster fuck. I hope National hang in there. I never want to see that retard Norman with the finance role.

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  56. SPC (5,563 comments) says:

    The basis of the TV 3 news item was their own speculatuion – based on Norman’s past practice of refusing to rule out seeking the Finance Minister position.

    But note not once has Norman said he was seeking the position.

    My own presumption is that Shearer and Norman have already decided that Norman would be deputy PM, and Labour will choose the Finance spokeperson, that said there will be more than one person working in that field.

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  57. Yoza (1,778 comments) says:

    OneTrack (185) Says at 12:03 pm: “…and just think for a few seconds about what life would really be like under a Red (I mean Green of course) government. The dairy sector would be crushed, private businesses would be taxed to death, free-trade agreements cancelled,…”

    …the seas will boil, it will rain blood, the dead will rise from their graves and walk the earth and there will be a thousand years of darkness!

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  58. sparky (235 comments) says:

    Your Thousand years of darkness will be pretty close, with the type of Leaders and MP’s the Labour/Green Party’s present. A life under morons, would be our darkest hour. Anyone with brains will not vote for them.

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