Hide on how Governments hurt the poor
March 17th, 2013 at 1:00 pm by David FarrarRodney Hide in the HoS describes 10 ways Government policies hurt poor people:
- The Government funds the very best schools for rich kids’ education. The price of entry is the cost of a house that’s “in-zone”. Poor families can’t afford it. They are locked out of decent schools and their kids are consigned to third-rate institutions.
- Rich girls are subsidised to attend university and become teachers, accountants and lawyers. Poor girls are subsidised to drop out of school and have babies.
- The rich teach their kids to work hard and be smart to succeed. The Government teaches poor kids their land was stolen and that to prosper they must work on Treaty claims in hope of winning it back.
- Rich boys start work on graduate wages. Poor boys are shut out of the job market by the minimum wage.
- Solo mums face the highest effective marginal tax rates in the country. The rich have tax planners and offshore accounts.
- Metropolitan Urban Limits restrict the supply of land and inflate the value of existing homes. That’s great for families who already own a house or two. It’s bad for the poor. The Urban Limits shut them out of ever owning a house. The poor are never able to accumulate capital and establish the sense of pride and belonging that home ownership brings. They are tenants for life.
- The Government subsidises the winnings of rich horse owners. The gambling of poor people is taxed through the TAB and pokie machines.
- The ballet and the orchestra are subsidised. Smoking and drinking are taxed.
- Poor neighbourhoods are crime-ridden. The rich live behind locked gates and security patrols and say tougher sentencing and increased policing don’t work. The poor struggle to protect their meagre possessions and to keep their children from the clutches of gangs and drug dealers.
- The Resource Management Act, occupational safety and health, and our labour laws protect established business from upstarts who can’t afford lawyers, human resources consultants and three tiers of management devoted to compliance.
A fair bit of truth there.
March 17th, 2013 at 1:09 pm
Without poor people, the left would lose much of their political power.
That’s why the left love policies that produce more poor people.
March 17th, 2013 at 1:21 pm
In Hide’s world, poor = Maori. While over represented in the lower socieo economic groups, Maori don’t make up these groups exclusively.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 1:29 pm
No…there are plenty of White “learned Maori” too….incentivised to be that way and to get worse.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 1:31 pm
‘The Government funds the very best schools for rich kids’ education. The price of entry is the cost of a house that’s “in-zone”. Poor families can’t afford it. They are locked out of decent schools and their kids are consigned to third-rate institutions’
Which is total bollocks, the government funds state schools based on the decile level, so schools in ‘poorer’ areas receive more funding per pupil than schools in ‘richer areas’. There are plenty of excellent mid-decile schools surrounded by relatively affordable housing.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 1:38 pm
Coming from a neo-con statist like Hide has all the creditability of Wussell Norman.
Just about all 10 pts are crap or not relevant. The ignorance is unsurprising as Hide simply thinks he can manage the country better than Wussell.
March 17th, 2013 at 1:40 pm
The taxpayer funds all schools.( to a greater or lesser degree)
It’s up to parents and children to take it from there.Most other problems follow from people not taking of the opportunity offered by taxpayer largesse.
Equality of opportunity not outcome………unless you’re a friggin socialist.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 1:48 pm
Being high-decile doesn’t mean being a better school. Metro’s top ten schools in Auckland has often previously included mid-decile schools ranked well above some decile 9s and 10s. As pointed out above the government gives more funding to low decile schools and they often have better technology and resources than high-decile ones. High decile schools perform better on average not because they are actually better schools with superior teachers, but because they are less likely to have children with solo parents, abusive parents, parents who don’t see education as the most important aspect of their child’s life (placing church or family first) or children who come to school poorly fed and lacking sleep. Sending poorer children to decile 10 schools won’t improve their outcomes for many because the problems are at home, not at school. Besides, parents with motivation already have the ability to send their children out of zone if they want to and a fair percentage do.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 2:11 pm
Hides points are bang on and are what any Libertarian minded person with economic nouse would tell you…incentives matter.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
“Incentives matter”
and what better incentive can one have than a desire for ones children to do well.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 2:26 pm
Rightandleft – I notice you didn’t mention that there aren’t many decent low decile schools.
And can many poor kids afford to go to the grammar schools in Auckland which traditionally have been amongst the best schools in NZ?
YesWeDid – Auckland Grammar is state funded isn’t it? Your point is bollocks – all it means is the government spends more money on keeping poor kids out of the best schools.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 2:42 pm
But hold on, Helen Clark campaigned on ‘Closing the Gaps’! Well that was a dismal failure wasn’t it. The best economic conditions since the last war and many years later those gaps weren’t closed, only widened.
It’s a bizarre article from Hide; seems a bit over the top and emotive for him, mind you look at the newspaper it’s published in. On the plus side, Jeremy Clarkson thinks New Zealand is frickin’ awesome!
I don’t think New Zealand is necessarily the basket case Rodders has obviously decided it is. I had hoped the Nats were going to kick some serious butt, but maybe things are going to bed in soon with these welfare reforms, three strikes, charter schools, boy racer legislation etc etc. National were never going to charge in with their policies or the horses would have been spooked. Softly softly catchy monkey.
Normal cynical transmission will resume tomorrow – this rain is going to give me some grass so everything’s good in my world this arvo
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 2:55 pm
kowtow (3,866) Says:
March 17th, 2013 at 2:17 pm
…”and what better incentive can one have than a desire for ones children to do well”……
Thats exactly right. Here in Hamilton we have a drop dead school – Fairfield. Its not the schools fault – its the parents. Most dont care about their kids, and those that do are a bunch of radicals who run the school board – and they appiont idiots to run the place.
Parents who care take their kids across town – even to another town – to avoid Fairfield.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 3:10 pm
Kowotow – yes.
You can lead a kid to school but you can’t make their parent/s think.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 3:26 pm
Rodney does makes some good points.
Most of the welfare spending in New Zealand is actually claimed by the Middle and Upper classes. The problem is that those groups don’t consider it to be welfare and are starting to become dependent upon it. They’re also more effective at opposing proposals to remove the benefits they receive – but that’s another matter.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 3:45 pm
Spot on, a usual from the man I I am proud to call “former leader”…
And the worst and silliest comment of the above goes to ..Simon, on 341 comments, who compares my dear former leader to Russell Norman, without, I have no doubt, ever meeting and speaking with either of them…or hearing them for that matter, other than on the telly….
But just for the record, it is the NATS who just think they can run the country better than the filthy socialists, and that that’s a good enough reason to vote for them….ACT always had principle in there….and flamed out..
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 4:02 pm
It’s depressing that the drivel in this post attributed to Rodney Hide comes from someone who was supposedly one of NZ politics’ better-educated and more intellectually-capable participants. It’s a fucking poor lookout for the rest of them if he was considered smart. Some of his points are obviously wrong, some are nothing to do with the government and all of them are simplistic bullshit. We can all be grateful his party’s history.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 5:11 pm
No, you are right Psycho…he got his five degrees (two of them at Masters level) in two different disciplines – including environmental science – by bribing various institutions…you are of course very much smarter…
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 5:44 pm
Possibly because there are quite a few. Mrs kk visits decent low decile schools most weeks.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 5:50 pm
But he helped drill for oil too DG…..He is doomed in NZ!
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 6:09 pm
Silliest article yet from Hide – and that’s saying something! Each point varies from simplistic to stupid.
1) Some if not many low decile schools do amazing things to lift the educational outcomes of diadvantaged (or to use Rodney’s word – poor) kids. Any there are plenty of high decile schools that are on cruise mode. Mind you, Rodney might have have a point – Wanganui Collegiate (one of those “cruise mode” schools) gets a government boost up while Wanganui High kicks above its weight.
Vote:2) Simplistic stereotyping. Poor kids go to university too, and rich kids have babies. Comes down to the individual, the government doesn’t have much to do with it.
3) So now Poor = Maori?
4) By “poor” I’m guessing Rodney means uneducated. And if there was no minimum wage, then the “poor” working for peanuts is hardly going to make them richer.
5) This says more about the morals of the “rich” if they hide their wealth offshore to avoid tax than it does about the government.
March 17th, 2013 at 6:53 pm
Another genuis giving us the benefit of his (anonymous) opinions on someone else’s publicly expressed views…
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 6:57 pm
Silly David. If Rodney writes an OPINION piece in a newspaper, then of course people are going to give their views. That’s the whole purpose of an opinion piece. I’m sure you are aware that there is a comments section that follow those articles.
Anyway moving on …
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 7:05 pm
bc: quite so…but it is the nature and calibre of the comments which I am referring to…when one begins: “Silliest article yet from Hide…” that at least implies that the commenter could do so much better…but you then go on to immediately prove that in your case at least, that is not so…
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 7:07 pm
6) Is this because of the government? And how much land do we dedicate for housing? The Waikato is productive farming land. Do we stretch the urban spraw so that Auckland and Hamilton join together at the expense of farming?
Vote:7) Simplistic stereotyping again. In Rodney’s world only the poor gamble.
8) Stupidist comment of them all. Of course smoking and drinking are taxed – they cause harm. Taxing them pays for that harm and by making the product more expensive reduces the demand. Duh!
9) How is that the fault of the government?
10) Finally Rodney might be saying something sensible!
March 17th, 2013 at 7:09 pm
Yeah David – it’s called an OPINION. Rodney has an opinion. I have an opinion.
Vote:You seem to be struggling with the concept.
March 17th, 2013 at 7:17 pm
David Garrett: I’ve served university-educated people for a significant proportion of my working life, and the take-home lesson has consistently been that no number of university qualifications is any guarantee that the person holding them isn’t an idiot. You’re only as smart as the argument you’re presenting, and the presentation above suggests that Hide is feeling the pressure of deadlines, or that he’s an idiot, or that he shouldn’t write when he’s drunk.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 7:20 pm
PM is a waitress at AUT’s canteen!
Who’d have thunk it!
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 7:33 pm
Psycho: Quit now man…Hide hasnt had a drink in about seven years…but your point about university qualifications and common sense is well made…I’d leave it there if I were you..
One of the great blunders trial lawyers make is “sheeting the point home” by asking that one question too many…it takes a really smart one to know when to leave it…
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 7:40 pm
PM is a waitress at AUT’s canteen!
Harrrumph. AUT is a glorified polytech – my waitressing has all been at higher-class establishments than that.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 7:53 pm
It’s a strange day for the righties. Matt McCarten writes a well written and thoughtful article that they can agree with, and Rodney Hide writes a piece of rubbish that reads like very little thought went into it.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=10871692
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 8:07 pm
bc: Tell you what..YOU write 800 words …any topic you like….but if you want some sort of challenge, make it the same subject Rodders has had a go at today…should take you about 45 minuties if you are as smart as you think you are…put it up here as a comment (others have posted far more than 800 words) … then see what sort of reaction you get…
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 8:34 pm
bc – Strange day for the lefties too when you imply you expect Rodney Hide to write well written and thoughtful articles and Matt McCarten to write pieces of rubbish -which they both do of course. I am surprised you would admit that though
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 8:43 pm
The saddest thing about some of the comments here is how badly they manage to understand the point of using 10 bullet points. Sure, rip them to pieces bit by bit and fail to notice that RH is actually taking the language of the left, who think they have the monopoly on not only the word ‘poor’ but also anybody that is attributed that label and turning it on its’ head. It’s brilliant politics wasted on those that think they’re smarter than the average bear. Go on, argue that smoking causes harm and ignore all the pleasure it brings. Argue about decile numbers and how they don’t correlate to outcomes of select students. And while you’re at it, make sure you completely ignore the harm minimum wages do to those that want to succeed, especially the young… The ‘poor’ belong to the left, they need them, they need their votes and they need them to stay where they are. How dare someone suggest that perverse incentives harm those that they’re supposed to help by using succinct bullet points? If people understood the harm, maybe something could be done about it.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 8:51 pm
I hope we will see Rodney Hide in a position better than commenter soon
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 11:17 pm
Um OneTrack, that was my point!
Rodney has written some thoughtful stuff in the past, but that column today was rubbish. I guess we can all have an off day, but Rodney seems to be phoning it in lately.
Meanwhile Matt has written some drivel, but his column today was well thought out. But of course some people will always take the position of Rodney = good, Matt = bad regardless of what they write.
Vote:March 17th, 2013 at 11:20 pm
Um David @8.07pm, that’s kind of what I did! Not 800 words, but then it didn’t take me anything close to 45 minutes to do it.
Vote:March 18th, 2013 at 2:41 pm
***Poor families can’t afford it. They are locked out of decent schools and their kids are consigned to third-rate institutions.***
Not true. The problem with those schools is the low quality of the other students who include a larger proportion of children who have behavioural problems, low IQ and low motivation.
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