It’s not a poll

April 27th, 2013 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

The Herald reports:

Migrant groups aren’t convinced New Zealand is a racist country, despite a new poll indicating overwhelmingly that it is.

Actually it does no such thing.

Seventy-six per cent of responses gathered by TV3’s The Vote on Wednesday night agreed with the proposition that New Zealand was racist.

That is not a poll. It is a meaningless self-selected sample. The results are in no way representative of the NZ population. It is representative of people who wanted to see a debate on TV3 about if NZ is racist and felt strongly enough to vote on it in their online survey.

There is a place for reporting unscientific surveys such as blog and online . But they should never ever be treated as representing NZ public opinion – let alone the basis for an entire news story.

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50 Responses to “It’s not a poll”

  1. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    FFS- racism is a Marxist construct. Where ever it may be polled.

    Read about CRITICAL THEORY.

    Racism along with so many other fictional “isms” is a ploy used by the extreme left to divide and conquer.

    Weaken us and destroy our homogeneity and distract us from the real issue- LIBERTY and the left’s obsessive compulsion to take it from us.

    I wish you would not so willingly do propaganda for the would be tyrants and totalitarians of the extreme left.

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  2. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “…..But they should never ever be treated as representing NZ public opinion – let alone the basis for an entire news story….”

    SOoooooo then….that would then be the same with gay ‘marriage’ too wouldn’t it DPF ? :cool:

    [DPF: Of course. The text and web polls were bogus crap]

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  3. dishy (248 comments) says:

    Until there is any meaningful consensus on what constitutes racism, it’s worse than pointless to even try to determine whether a country is racist (even if we do pretend that a country itself is capable of having such a characeteristic: is NZ a kind country? It’s a nonsense type of question).

    If Victoria University is still doing first year philosophy courses in logic and argument, those responsible for 3rd Degree would benefit from attending the lectures.

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  4. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    Shut up Harriet-

    Don’t you know we’re all supposed to just get over the Marriage Redefinition hoax. :)

    Time will see all opposition just melt away.

    That’s what the Progressives in power have decreed, so it must be what is going to happen.

    Right??

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  5. OneTrack (3,107 comments) says:

    I echo dishy’s comment. What do you define as being racism? I know that people like Hone have a different dictionary to my Webster.

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  6. Griff (7,727 comments) says:

    Weddy its so refreshing to here your retardist views
    of course in your retardist world we would all be free to act like retards as well

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  7. Harriet (4,972 comments) says:

    “….Racism along with so many other fictional “isms” is a ploy used by the extreme left to divide and conquer….”

    Yep!

    They celebrate what divides us and throw money in support of it.

    And yet they speak to us all about it in English : where french, latin and greek form the basis of english.

    They’ve fucked the future of the average Maori child by appeasing and excusing them, and supporting sepratism – which in turn holds them back from advancement- and the islanders are going the same way.

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  8. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    “Migrant groups aren’t convinced we’re racist”

    Well then they fucking well need convincing!

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  9. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Farrar, TV3’s up the pole?

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  10. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    “of course in your retardist world we would all be free to act like retards as well”

    I can see you’re living that dream to the fullest.

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  11. Yoza (1,875 comments) says:

    “Migrant groups aren’t convinced New Zealand is a racist country, …”

    I’m guessing not many of the read the comments on KiwiBlog:

    Manolo (9,611) Says:
    April 25th, 2013 at 4:30 pm
    “What do you expect? The Stone Ager thug Harawira has been a parasite,…”

    RF (697) Says:
    April 25th, 2013 at 8:07 pm
    Manolo 4.30pm

    “Its a breeze for Hone he just swings through the trees with the greatest of ease.”

    Johnboy (10,409) Says:
    April 25th, 2013 at 8:41 pm
    “Still you have to admit that turning up for work 71 days out of 120 is more reliable than most Murri are eh bro?”

    And that is just a small sample from one thread.

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  12. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    That’s exactly right Doza.

    Murri are just another group of immigrants.

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  13. stepheng (25 comments) says:

    To be fair to the Herald, The Vote/Third Degree strongly encourages this confusion. Linda Clark or whoever *needs* to say loudly and repeatedly that the poll results they get are completely unscientific/unrepresentative, but nothing is said, and in fact the show’s core conceit is to subtly disavow that point. Terrible show.

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  14. the conservative (66 comments) says:

    If racism means being sick of sponging Maoris; being sick of liberal, apartheid politics; only giving jobs to people who can speak English, only giving jobs to people who can actually do the jobs; being patriotic by defending New Zealand against legalised Chinese colonisation; being opposed to the importation of radical Islam; being a person who cares about New Zealand and our European culture, then I am proud to be a so-called racist.

    For Christ sake New Zealand wake up; the word ‘racism’ is a made up liberal word to divide people. Liberals say they hate racism, but the true reality is they don’t want it to go away because if it were to go away they would have nothing. Why do you think we hear this word every day in schools and every day in the left-wing media? Liberals propagate, nurture, and propagandise this word for the sole purpose of dividing people—to divide and conquer.

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  15. mara (785 comments) says:

    Racism, sexism, sizeism, ethnocentrism, etc, etc, YAWN.

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  16. hane (69 comments) says:

    Although not a racist himself, Farrar continues to tolerate racist comments on his blog from proud and admitted racists. Disgusting.

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  17. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    I think that New Zealand is more racist than Australia. In Australia people are judged on their merits, however in New Zealand you are judged on your race.

    Maoris do a lot better in Australia than in New Zealand and I suspect it is because Australian Maoris (including those born in New Zealand) are harder working than those in New Zealand. The fact that the government over here just treats them like everyone else probably helps too. Too bad they give aboriginals special treatment.

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  18. JC (956 comments) says:

    The best comment I’ve heard on this came from Susan Devoy saying (New Zealanders should feel) “ashamed that they perceive themselves as a racist country”.

    You can fill in the narrative around this cryptic comment any way you like but in essence she’s saying we are one of the least racist countries around.

    JC

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  19. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    During my last visit to New Zealand for a friend’s wedding, I noticed that maori crap was everywhere – Hone, maoris trying to claim Taupo Bungy, little lines above vowels on the road signs, etc. I feel it’s becoming more invasive, certainly more so than when I left a bit over five years ago – they are looking at renaming the North and South islands for fuck’s sake! Leave it alone! That sort of crap just doesn’t happen in Australia; after the six days I was ready to come home.

    No wonder New Zealand is fucked; the two major races (and I know that most maoris only have a couple of drops of maori “blood”) are being driven apart by government policy.

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  20. Yoza (1,875 comments) says:

    “That sort of crap just doesn’t happen in Australia;…” Most noticeable Tasmania where the indigenous population was hunted to extinction for sport.

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  21. Fletch (6,390 comments) says:

    [DPF: Of course. The text and web polls were bogus crap]

    Although, even in the official polls on same sex marriage, the support steadily fell each time there was a poll, to the extent that the NZ Herald was surprised and made the “shock poll” a front page story.

    Not to mention the online polls on The Yahoo and Herald sites. And of course the result of the John Campbell text poll. But somehow they don’t matter and can be dismissed?

    In any case, I believe it’s not something the public would have chosen if they’d been given a chance to vote on it. That could be why on one of your last posts you were quoting U.S percentages of support and not NZ

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  22. KevinH (1,227 comments) says:

    Of course racial hatred and prejudice is a live issue in New Zealand, you only have to read KB comments to find that out.

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  23. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    Any person who has actually spent time overseas, especially in Australia but elsewhere also, realises pretty quickly that NZ is one of the least racists countries that you could hope to live in.

    While there will always be racists, sexists, and socialists, (which are often the same thing) in any country, NZ has far fewer, and has far better race relations than most countries.

    That ‘poll’ merely shows the ignorance of those who voted in it.

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  24. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    I think that New Zealand is more racist than Australia. In Australia people are judged on their merits, however in New Zealand you are judged on your race.

    I have to completely disagree with this!!!

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  25. Pete George (23,567 comments) says:

    If New Zealand fits the definition of a rascist country them pretty much every country in the world will be rascist, which makes it a meaningless term.

    Every individual must have some degree of racism, it’s natural to feel more comfortable with what you are more familiar, at times at least. That doesn’t make it a bad thing, just a fact of life.

    When rascism is used to attack, bully and belittle then it becomes a problem.

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  26. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    The idea that racism is wrong is a very recent one, largely confined to affluent Western societies. Even in those societies the uptake is not as high as we like to think.

    Through out most of the world it is accepted as given that your particular culture or race is the superior one. When migrants say they oppose racism, what they are really saying is; racism against them. A classic example is the PC brigades poster boy Ghandi, who loathed blacks, while lobbying for better treatment of Indians. (In South Africa they became “coloureds” to distinguish them from the “blacks” as a result)

    Racism is not motivated by fear or ignorance. That is PC crap. It is based on sound evolutionary principles. We prefer our own group because it carries our genes. It is part of being human and we need to grow up, stop the bullshit, and accept it the same as the rest of the world does.

    Preferring your own race/culture/rugby team, is not the same as mistreating other people based on those factors.

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  27. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    F E Smith, you are naive if you believe that New Zealand is one of the least racist countries. The place is full of racists with massive chips on their shoulders. Those racists happen to be brown and are encouraged by the state, so they couldn’t possibly be racist.

    I don’t dislike maori people, I dislike people who believe that their race is entitled to more than another race. I also dislike government policies that encourage those people to think that way.

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  28. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    From the Grandfather of the anti racist movement: Gandi

    “The Raw Kaffir” (Kaffir is a native African)

    “We believe as much in the purity of race as we think they do, only we believe that they would best serve these interests, which are as dear to us as to them, by advocating the purity of all races, and not one alone. We believe also that the white race of South Africa should be the predominating race.”

    “Ours is one continued struggle against degradation sought to be inflicted upon us by the European, who desire to degrade us to the level of the raw Kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and unclothedness.”

    “It is one thing to register natives who would not work, and whom it is very difficult to find out if they absent themselves, but it is another thing -and most insulting – to expect decent, hard-working, and respectable Indians, whose only fault is that they work too much, to have themselves registered and carry with them registration badges.”

    “A little judicious extra taxation would do no harm; in the majority of cases it compels the native to work for at least a few days a year.”

    “As you were good enough to show very great sympathy with the cause of British Indians in the Transvaal, may I suggest your using your influence with the Boer leaders in the Transvaal? I feel certain that they did not share the same prejudice against British Indians as against the Kaffir races but as the prejudice against Kaffir races in a strong form was in existence in the Transvaal at the time when the British Indians immigrated there, the latter were immediately lumped together with the Kaffir races and described under the generic term ‘Coloured people’. Gradually the Boer mind was habituated to this qualification and it refused to recognize the evident and sharp distinctions that undoubtedly exist between British Indians and the Kaffir races in South Africa.”

    “Why, of all places in Johannesburg, the Indian location should be chosen for dumping down all Kaffirs of the town, passes my comprehension. Of course, under my suggestion, the Town Council must withdraw the Kaffirs from the Location. About this mixing of the Kaffirs with the Indians I must confess I feel most strongly. I think it is very unfair to the Indian population, and it is an undue tax on even the proverbial patience of my countrymen.”

    http://www.nairaland.com/37329/gandhi-racist

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  29. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    As for Australia, there are so many races living in Australia that it is impossible for them all to get along. The Cronulla riots happened because a man from the middle east raped an Australian girl and blamed it on her dressing like a slut. The more recent riots in Logan City (south of Brisbane) were between two groups of immigrants, being Islanders and Africans.

    Australia is a very accepting country, although Australians expect that you leave your baggage from your old life at the door.

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  30. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    you are naive if you believe that New Zealand is one of the least racist countries

    I was going to reply that I have travelled a bit, but then I saw what you went on with and decided that the better answer to the rest of your rant is this: You are wrong.

    EDIT:

    Australia is a very accepting country

    Ha!  The level of casual racism in Australia always amazes me.  It is everywhere.

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  31. Redbaiter (8,923 comments) says:

    “Most noticeable Tasmania where the indigenous population was hunted to extinction for sport.”

    You are a cowardly liar. You know that is a myth. Keith Windschuttle dealt to that stinking Marxist academic bullshit years ago.

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  32. Kea (12,841 comments) says:

    It’s OK Red I can salvage that sentence to say something real:

    Most noticeable Tasmania the Chatham Islands where the indigenous population was hunted to extinction for sport

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  33. Dennis Horne (2,403 comments) says:

    Dismissing (aspects of) a culture is not the same as prejudging an individual – prejudice.

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  34. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    F E Smith said:

    The level of casual racism in Australia always amazes me. It is everywhere.

    The casual racism in Australia is harmless or even healthy racism, and it is difficult to take offense to. I have been at the receiving end of countless sheep jokes and comments about “bloody kiwis coming over here and taking our jobs,” “tightarse white kiwi,” “white kiwis… are Island Niggers” (yes I did get called that) etc., but I don’t care because I give it right back. And it is expected, because making fun of each other’s differences is part of Australian culture. It helps to put the differences into perspective.

    If you try the same thing in New Zealand you’ll get labelled a dirty racist by politically correct leftist do-gooders like yourself.

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  35. F E Smith (3,305 comments) says:

    The casual racism in Australia is harmless or even healthy racism, and it is difficult to take offense to.

    I’m not talking about the kiwi jokes.  I have no problem with that and give it right back to them.  But there is a strong level of racism based upon the colour of a persons skin, or where they or their family come from, that is pervasive and offensive.  I have heard it, I have seen it, and it is neither harmless nor healthy.

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  36. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    As long as you think so.

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  37. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    F E Smith (2,460) Says:
    April 27th, 2013 at 1:53 pm
    ———————————-

    Agree.

    And not just at a personal and community level. Until recently institutional racism was accepted in Australia, and some argue is still supported with Aboriginal populated areas being targeted to exclude them from participating in activities available to others.

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  38. kowtow (8,487 comments) says:

    Ozzies aren’t racist.

    They’re proud of their country and what they’ve achieved there.

    Today that pride and sense of protecting what they have is portrayed as racist.
    Recognise that who ever accuses you of racism is your enemy.

    Stand up for your country,your achievements ,your history,culture and traditions.( Every other fucker is,why shouldn’t Europeans?)

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  39. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Kea at 1.17 touched on the Chatham Islands. The islands’ history is proof that racism is not exclusively by whites. In fact I know of nothing in New Zealand so brutal and genocidal as Taranaki Maori savagery in and colonisation of the Chathams.

    According to Wikipedia, Moriori were Ngai Tahu who migrated to the Chathams around 400 years ago.
    Taranaki Maori who in 1835 were considering invading Samoa or Norfolk Island instead chose the Chathams because they had learned the Moriori were pacifists. Five hundred Taranaki Maori hijacked a European ship and went to the Chathams, and another 400 followed. They declared the Moriori slaves and killed the Moriori like sheep, according to Moriori survivors. They killed one in 10 Moriori by staking them out on beaches and allowing them to die in pain over several days. They forbade Morioro to marry each other, and forbade the speaking of Moriori (which over the centuries had become a separate language, but related to the Ngai Tahu dialect).

    Moriori have a claim before the Waitangi Tribunal. It makes very interesting reading. Moriori and Ngati Mutanga (Taranaki Maoris’ descendants) are in the claim, which related to land assignment after the Chatham Islands were annexed to the NZ colony in 1842. The Native Land Court excluded Moriori from land ownership on any island except the main island, but awarded 97 per cent of the land to the Ngati Mutanga and just 3 per cent to the Morirori.

    The claim says that slavery, which the Treaty abolished among Maori in 1839 on the eve of the Treaty, conitnued for 20 years in the Chathams, and we can assume that meant Maori ownership of Moriori slaves.

    Among compensation for other wrongs, New Zealand taxpayers apparently are being asked to compensate the part-Moriori survivors in the Chathams for 20 years of slavery at the hands of Maori, and to compensate Ngati Mutunga, the descendants of the Maori invaders, because of the impact of land tenure reform on them.

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  40. gazzmaniac (2,307 comments) says:

    Maybe any successful claim by Moriori should come from the claims that Ngati Mutunga no doubt have in Taranaki.

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  41. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    Jack5

    Wikipedia is usually quite unreliable on NZ history however this summary of what happened in the Chathams is pretty close.
    Why the crown and the NZ taxpayer should be responsible for the Ngati Tama & Ngati Mutunga failing to honour the treaty and release their slaves is beyond me.
    Some Maori want it both ways they insist that the treaty was a partnership and that they had and still have their sovereignty and at the same time blame the crown for not intervening at the Chathams and halting the slavery. Go figure.
    This does show though just how much the Waitangi Tribunal is a Maori lobby group rather than a body which is supposed to be investigating claims and getting to the truth.

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  42. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Primates are racist. People are primates.

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  43. Steve (North Shore) (4,563 comments) says:

    Some people are more primate than others – they are the ones who are squealing and think they are owed

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  44. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    Following on from above I have an idea lets get Ngati Mutunga and Ngati Tama to compensate Moriori from their settlements- oh hang on Ngati Tama lost all of their 20 million in bad investments.
    Perhaps Willie Jackson who is part Ngati Mutunga could sell his SUV and take his kids out of Kings and come up with some compensation then – Tui billboard moment.

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  45. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    The question here is like asking: “are New Zealanders dirty minded”. As we know we all have a sex drive and even as you age the buds of ‘un-clean thoughts’ (even if they brief). I.e it is a black and white “set up” of a question.

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  46. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Steve North Shore:
    Some people are more primate than others – they are the ones who are squealing and think they are owed.
    ………….
    You mean the victims of finance companies or people who bought leaky homes?

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  47. hj (7,023 comments) says:

    Read about the Chathams
    http://www.sof.org.nz/origins.htm

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  48. hane (69 comments) says:

    Steve North Shore:
    Some people are more primate than others – they are the ones who are squealing and think they are owed.
    ………….
    Mighty River Power investors.

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  49. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    gazzmanic,

    That sort of crap just doesn’t happen in Australia; after the six days I was ready to come home.

    Perhaps you should just stay there then? If it really hurts you that much? Gee, I mean, back home you have such a deep trough of culture to dive into, right?

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  50. itstricky (1,831 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    Stand up for your country,your achievements ,your history,culture and traditions.( Every other fucker is,why shouldn’t Europeans?)

    Because they’re too busy moaning that other cultures are getting more attention than them, obviously.

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