More race based seats sought

May 24th, 2013 at 7:00 am by David Farrar

Stuff reports:

A bid by ethnic communities to have a decision-making role within the appears unlikely to succeed any time soon.

The ethnic advisory panel that reports to the council asked Mayor Len Brown for a “decision-making” role on council committees in its quarterly report, given the growing ethnic population in Auckland.

It is inevitable that if you have seats reserved for one race, that other races will want seats also. That is why I think at national and local government is a bad idea, albeit well intentioned.

I also note that there are two Councillors from the Pacific community. So why do you need ethnic communities to have a decision making role on Council committees, when members of those communities are being elected to Council in their own right.

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46 Responses to “More race based seats sought”

  1. smttc (711 comments) says:

    Why do we need them? We don’t.

    Why do they want them? Because they know they cannot make it under their own steam.

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  2. hj (6,747 comments) says:

    Leadership from any race; for everyone, only!

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  3. hj (6,747 comments) says:

    Some people (such as Green M.P Catherine Delahunty) don’t agree with majority rule:

    “I am very excited that we are moving into a more sophisticated era under Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and we are moving beyond the limited concept of conservative Pākehā that one man, one vote is the only manifestation of democracy possible in Aotearoa.’

    http://www.greens.org.nz/speeches/more-sophisticated-era-under-te-tiriti-o-waitangi

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  4. hj (6,747 comments) says:

    More speeches from Catherine Delahunty – Green MP…. …

    I am proud to stand here with these leaders of the best of Pakeha culture. They give me hope.

    But the past and present state of the majority of the Pakeha nation is one of denial. Denial that we even exist as a nation, which uses democratheid (apartheid by majority) in maintaining control of Aotearoa. Democratheid is by no means a complete system or we would not be finding growing numbers of Pakeha supporting Te Tiriti events such as this one, but a powerful systemic injustice remains.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO0702/S00068.htm

    She’s No. 8 (Wire) on the list so there is a lot of support for her views amongst the Green Party intellectuals.

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  5. alloytoo (468 comments) says:

    By this logic we need to reserve seats for New Zealanders of European origin. How about a campaign for that.

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  6. big bruv (13,571 comments) says:

    This issue is not worth worrying about. These seats will come with the next Green/Labour government and once they are a fact of life the Nat’s will never have the balls to do away with them.

    It may well be advised to take a mental snap shot of how NZ is right now, change is coming and it will be change that we will never be able to go back on. Our nation is about to become something that you do not recognise.

    Under a Green/Labour government we can expect;

    1. Much higher taxes for those who earn the wealth, expect a wealth tax of roughly 60% on earnings above $80,000
    2. Working will be optional, the Greens will sell this policy as being child friendly.
    3. Fuel tax so high that people will be forced onto unsafe, unhealthy public transport.
    4. All roading will be stopped.
    5. The legalisation of all drugs.
    6. The renaming of all cities and towns in NZ to Maori names
    7. Hate speech legislation will be passed in the house. Of course this will not apply to Maori.
    8. The tax payer will be forced to fully fund political parties
    9. The return of compulsory unionism
    10. State control of the media
    11. An updated EFA will be introduced making it illegal to attack the government.
    12. A quota for Gays, Maori, and females in all workplaces.
    13. “Positive” discrimination legislation will be passed.
    14. An upper house made up of only Maori will be created.
    15. NZ will become a republic despite the wishes of the public.
    16. Criminals will be given a much softer ride by the courts; victims will be forced to attend group conferences

    That is only the start, make no mistake, unless the nation wakes up to the wickedness that will be a Green/Labour government we are doomed.

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  7. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    Auckland Council is rushing to attain Third World status.

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  8. Lance (2,565 comments) says:

    No allytoo
    If whites wanted race based seats that would be evil, wicked, Nazism, apartheid, evil evil, bad, bastards, motherfuckers and a declaration of war.
    Any other colour/race than white/European is progressive and visionary.

    Get with the program.

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  9. mudrunner (88 comments) says:

    big bruv (11,207) May 24th, 2013 at 7:34 am “These seats will come with the next Green/Labour government and once they are a fact of life the Nat’s will never have the balls to do away with them.”

    This is the real likelihood. Look at National now and see what they have not done. There has not been the slightest attempt to address separateness and the ingress of the treaty. Government Central government is full of it and local government enthusiastically not far behind.

    Who can blame for Maori getting into it when they are offered a soft option of looking inwards to themselves while being supported by the rest of the tax-payers.

    Maori who don’t want to be part of this are the ones really suffering, because not only are they getting a confused sense of place in New Zealand, they dare not make any statement about which way to jump.

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  10. Griff (7,008 comments) says:

    Every ones shit is the same
    councils should stop the social stuff and concentrate on providing infrastructure sewers roads and parks
    Stop wasting ratepayers money on whackjob racist crap.

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  11. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    How about “ethnic” British ? Ethnic British people are our largest immigrant group, yet have no representation. In my area we have many “ethnic” Germanic people, they have no seats either.

    Or by “ethnic” do they really mean something else ?

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  12. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    Europeans.

    Given that they now make up around 10% of the worlds population and that percentage is declining, I think this at risk minority should have special seats. If they were a bird or a beetle they would be listed as critically endangered with these figures. They are failing to breed, numbers are falling and their habitat has been destroyed in many areas. They are being displaced by introduced species.

    Something must be done !

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  13. Nigel Kearney (919 comments) says:

    If you’re ethnic British, maybe you should be thinking about compensation. After all, Britain has been invaded by Italians, Germans, Danes, Norwegians, French, Dutch and probably others. A sizeable cash settlement is in order surely. After collecting from those countries, Maori can be compensated for treaty breaches with part of the proceeds.

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  14. kowtow (7,955 comments) says:

    All shit is equal?

    No, some shit is more equal than others.

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  15. Dennis Horne (2,227 comments) says:

    Some knobs of shit are nuggets of gold and some pearls of wisdom are sheep droppings.

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  16. shoreboy57 (137 comments) says:

    On behalf of all Shetlanders in Auckland, I’ll be happy to take me seat at the political trough. Pass the cake

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  17. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    If you’re ethnic British, maybe you should be thinking about compensation. After all, Britain has been invaded by …

    The “indigenous” “ethnic” Brits were a tribal people who lived in villages. They have had their language, culture and religious practises destroyed.

    It is an outrage that they have not been compenstated.

    I guess they were too busy picking themselves up and building an empire the stretched around the world, from a little Island with all its natural resources plundered and bad weather.

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  18. Jack5 (4,906 comments) says:

    To have fair and correctly sorted race-based voting you need:

    1. A definition of what race is and means that is acceptable to all voters.
    2. Decision on what basis “races” will be chosen for the rolls – eg for those of Chinese descent, will it be just “Chinese”, or “Han Chinese” or “Inner Mongolian” or “Manchu”. Or will it be a breakdown on culture such as “Cantonese”, “Shanghainese” etc. Will Taiwanese folk have separate rolls from those whose families didn’t move to Taiwan from China? Should people of Indian extraction have one roll. Or will Punjabis want their own roll, and Tamils another; or perhaps will Hindu folk want a different roll from Indian Muslims; will Fijian Indians want a roll as Fijians, or Fijian Indians, or Fijian Muslim Indians… and so on. Should Scots have their own roll or be on a British expats role?
    3. A DNA profile for each “race” acceptable to all voters and within margins acceptable to all voters (if such profiles are feasible, or even possible). Just choosing which race you want to be, as is the case with Maori seats, cannot be true and accurate race-based voting.
    4. Acceptance by all voters of which “races” will have rolls in NZ, and minimum numbers to allow a roll. We can’t have rolls for everyone. If there are 40 Bolivians in NZ, would you have a roll for them.

    5. No element of choice as to which “race” roll each voter is on once the DNA profile is set.

    And so on, and so on.

    Race based voting is impracticable, unfair, and nigh impossible to implement accurately.

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  19. Komata (1,142 comments) says:

    jack5

    One you left out: Anyone attempting to apply for voting ‘preferences’ as a specific indigenous ethnic group must be able to prove that they are ‘pure-bloods’ without any ‘outside’ input (‘Contamination’ if you will); especially not from Europe.

    Methinks that that would remove one such group from contention immediately.

    Can’t see it happening though.

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  20. Kea (11,878 comments) says:

    A DNA profile for each “race”

    Which will lump Maori in with Taiwanese.

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  21. Jack5 (4,906 comments) says:

    Kea a 3.55 suggested DNA profiling would link Maori with Taiwanese.

    It depends which Taiwanese. Maori are related, and perhaps ultimately descended from, the aboriginal people of Taiwan, not the Chinese of Taiwan. The Aboriginals make up only about 2 per cent of Taiwan’s population of 23.3 million people. According to Wikipedia, the Aboriginals have been in Taiwan for 8000 years, while Han Chinese began migrating there only 400 years ago.

    Apart from Polynesians, other people in the ethnic group of these Aboriginals include Malays, Indonesians, Filipinos, and inhabitants of Madagascar.

    In Taiwan, the Aboriginals have been subjected to a strong assmilimation policy over the centuries of Chinese migration.

    Winnie Peters is undoubtedly related to these Aboriginals. Could it be that their drop from 100 per cent of the island’s population to just a fiftieth of it, is agitating Peters?

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  22. Viking2 (11,283 comments) says:

    Ah so that’s where he gets his anti chinese immigration bias.

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  23. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    There is talk of a new single issue political party is imminent, the issue being one law for all and no race based privileges.
    Lets hope that it has sufficient funding behind it and the right people to get the message out and make a difference.

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  24. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    There is talk of a new single issue political party is imminent

    So you are John Ansell then. FUD spraying, prejudice spreading, wolf in sheep’s clothing.

    If you are not John Ansell, think for yourself for two seconds. Is he trying to feed me something? Does he seem to be going to extraordinary lengths to do so? Is he starting to sound like a conspirarcist?

    It’s like the most ridiculous show in the world to sit back and watch.

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  25. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    Eww and let’s do a nice little segway cost-post into Winston’s bashing:

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/05/winstons_declares_war_on_china.html/comment-page-1#comment-1147224

    Fear gets votes almost as sure as promises of a better future.

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  26. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    “So you are John Ansell then. FUD spraying, prejudice spreading, wolf in sheep’s clothing.”

    No I m not John Ansell nor is the new party his as I understand it.

    Probably time to start shitting your pants though the gravy train might just be heading for a washed out bridge!

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  27. OneTrack (2,834 comments) says:

    “Race based voting is impracticable, unfair, and nigh impossible to implement accurately.”

    Details like that won’t stop the Greens going ahead with it. As long as taxpayers are financing the gravy train, all they want to do is steer. And who says that accuracy is a requirement anyway. They have social goals to achieve and integrity isn’t going to get in the way.

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  28. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    Look at that. 2 down votes for saying you should think for yourself.

    Probably time to start shitting your pants though the gravy train might just be heading for a washed out bridge

    Why would I shit my pants? I’ve got nothing to do with any percieved gravy train. That’s awfully prejudicial of you. Funny, that’s just like I said. Almost predicted the future. Perhaps you should have a good think who you think you are attacking, and why that is. You know, think for yourself.

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  29. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    @ itstricky You talk about being prejudicial and jumping to conclusions, but it was you who did that in reply to my post. Why should you say that I am not “thinking for myself” ? It is you who first played the man and not the ball. Try coming up with something constructive it might be a nice change.

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  30. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    You are quite right, and I apologise for assuming you were nut-job Ansell. I did say, if not, think for yourself. I did not, however, “play the man and not the ball”. About 30 commentators have palled that exact same line on this blog over the past two days. It’s boring and, again, not thinking for yourself.

    How’s this:

    * Acknowledge that some groups of people make up the base of this country.
    * Acknowledge that those groups of people make this country unique.
    * Acknowledge that those groups of people have previously been disadvantaged but have made big progress overcoming that disadvantage.

    Welcome those groups of people, and work with them to, and allow them to have their say via official channels.

    Sounds pretty constructive to me.

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  31. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    Incidentally, any other party peddling the line the issue being one law for all and no race based privileges is pretty much the same thing. Breed Fear. Use it to gather votes. I’m sure you’re better than that.

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  32. Griff (7,008 comments) says:

    How about
    there is a group of people that make up criminal antisocial statistics
    They think that stone age culture and tribalism is the way forward for new Zealand
    democracy one man one vote is not negotiable
    Race based political movements are racist
    think for yourself democracy or creeping tribalism?
    A society for all
    or one based on benefit based on the birthplace of your great great great grandfathers

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  33. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    The fear being bred imo is by the tribalists who threaten chaos if their privileges are taken away. All of the points about acknowledging the diversity of the country, helping the disadvantaged etc can be done in a country where all are equal under the law. Griff is right in that democracy can only survive with one man one vote and universal human rights.

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  34. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    I would weclome any demonstration that “a group thinks that stone age culture is the way forward” or “tribalists who threaten chaos” – where “chaos” is defined as per The Oxford and not just “they spoke up for themselves and I didn’t agree with it, so they are causing chaos”

    One man, one vote is what we have. You can’t be on two rolls. I don’t quite understand where either of you are going with that point. Someone been shoving some fear down your thoats?

    Race based politics is not having a party mearly based on some cultural principles. There is nothing to stop you from voting for the Maori party. You won’t because you don’t believe in their policies. But you can still do it. And there’s nothing to stop a person of Maori descent on the general roll voting for, say, ACT although the numbers will be few. Nobody takes a blood sample on the way in the door. More fear that rights will be taken away from you?

    Creeping tribalism? When was the last time someone asked you for your iwi & hapu? Never? I thought so. Why do you even care if it doesn’t affect you? And if someone did what would stop you from saying that you belonged to a “tribe” of Scotsman, Polish-immigrants or Chinese carpenters to recognise your past? Absolutely nothing. Don’t fear something just because you don’t undertstand it.

    The best way to allow the -uniqueness- of this country to continue and to stop it from fading into oblivion is to recognise that uniqueness in a special way, i.e. with specific representation.

    As for the spread of “special rights” and “univeral rights”:

    One could say that John Key’s daughter has “additional benefits” based on the birthplace of her father. One could equally say that Hillary’s grandchildren have “additional benefits” based upon the birthplace of their Grandfather.

    If I was to write here that “a rich prick gets more benefits than me because he’s rich” I would get shot down. Yet, here you are saying “A society for all….because some people get more benefits than me”.

    I would say it sounds almost communist.

    Perhaps you should stop moaning that someone has got something you haven’t and get on with it yourself, enjoy it and embrace it?

    Essentially, people are different. Get over it. It’s a good thing.

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  35. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    “I would weclome any demonstration that “a group thinks that stone age culture is the way forward” or “tribalists who threaten chaos” – where “chaos” is defined as per The Oxford and not just “they spoke up for themselves and I didn’t agree with it, so they are causing chaos”

    How about Tama Iti and his mates for an example of threatening Chaos. Read some of the telephone conversations posted by HJ on this topic.

    “One could say that John Key’s daughter has “additional benefits” based on the birthplace of her father. ”

    But she has no additional legal benefits to any other New Zealander.

    “There is nothing to stop you from voting for the Maori party. You won’t because you don’t believe in their policies.”

    I may be able to vote for the Maori party in theory but I have no vote in unelected Maori boards on Auckland Council.

    “You are quite right, and I apologise for assuming you were nut-job Ansell.”

    Interesting turn of phrase. The person who usually calls John Ansell and others Nut Jobs is the loud mouthed racist (by his own definition) Willie Jackson. You aren’t Willie J being tricky are you itstricky?

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  36. Griff (7,008 comments) says:

    Special seats for race
    special places at the table based on race
    is apartheid
    fuck of with your racist bullshit
    moari culture is not central to new Zealand culture
    most of us manage to avoid jail look after our offspring respect others personal and property rights
    no so moari
    as a group they fail
    and you think they add value
    2.4 percent voted moari partys
    that is all the power and respect the tribal vote carries
    trash the treaty

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  37. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    How about Tama Iti and his mates for an example of threatening Chaos.

    Completely over-rated. Anyone with half-sense would realise that Tama Iti is about as harmless as they come. Half a dozen people out in the bush with some guns with an undefined (and likely completely harmless) purpose? Think about what happened in London in the past two days.

    But she has no additional legal benefits to any other New Zealander.

    Could you tell me what additional legal benefits someone on the Maori roll gets?

    I may be able to vote for the Maori party in theory but I have no vote in unelected Maori boards

    Because this country is unique, it has afforded siginificant protection to that uniqueness. If you didn’t have that formal separation and acknowledgement, it would be too easy sites of significance to the country to become bland copies of the worst cities of the world.

    Interesting turn of phrase. The person who usually calls John Ansell and others Nut Jobs

    Nope. But even a basic perception of his character shows that he is a nut-job. Either he’s a nut-job who believes he isn’t, or he’s such a nut-job that he doesn’t realise he is.

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  38. wat dabney (3,724 comments) says:

    The fear being bred imo is by the tribalists who threaten chaos if their privileges are taken away.

    Indeed. And exactly the same principle applies to the immigration debate. Favouring “New Zealanders” over others is just more tribalism.

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  39. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    fuck of with your racist bullshit

    I laughed so much I nearly fell off my chair.

    most of us manage to avoid jail look after our offspring respect others personal and property rights
    no so moari
    as a group they fail

    It’s good to see that you believe in helping your fellow humans, and just not in your own health and well-being.

    Hey, just thought, you better get back inside and lock your steel gates and barred windows quickly – such as you can keep all those criminals out there from disrespecting your property.

    moari culture is not central to new Zealand culture

    Reeeaalllllyyy?

    Shit, I didn’t realise. You could have fooled me, what with all those tourism ads and stuff. Hold on, I’m just looking up the next plane to Oz. Seems like a better place to live. Apparently they get better salaries over there, too.

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  40. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    Indeed. And exactly the same principle applies to the immigration debate. Favouring “New Zealanders” over others is just more tribalism.

    So having pride in your country, it’s traditions and trying to protect that is “tribalism”?

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  41. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    @ itstricky
    “Nope. But even a basic perception of his character shows that he is a nut-job. Either he’s a nut-job who believes he isn’t, or he’s such a nut-job that he doesn’t realise he is.”

    So you are not Willie J ok, but you use the same character assassination techniques he does. I have read some of what John Ansell has written and whether you agree with him or not typically it is well researched and well argued. So please if you think you can debate the issues raised, but stop the ad hominem attacks.

    If you want to see a real nut job(s) google Desmond Wanoa and his uncle John. They have an arrest warrant out on Queen Elizabeth and have threatened to put a bullet through her head.

    As far as I can see unless you have some inside information you haven’t shared you are in no position to conclude that Tama Iti and his mates are harmless. The taped phone calls imply the opposite.

    Lastly the race based unelected boards on Councils are totally undemocratic. Maori can stand for Council like everyone else and it is not only Maori that are concerned about sites of significance in this country.

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  42. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    but you use the same character assassination techniques he does.

    It would be a large stretch to say calling someone a nut-job was “character assassination”, unless of course you were intimiately benefiting from him not being a nut-job.

    To say his work is “well researched” is to signal that you’ve been sucked in by it. When you look at “his work” it is obviously propoganda of the highest order.

    no position to conclude that Tame Iti and his mates are harmless

    You are right, I only have my own observations which suggest there’s nothing to him. But to paint him as some sort of global terrorist causing chaos is ridiculous. I find him intriguing, not intimidating or violent.

    Maori can stand for Council like everyone else and it is not only Maori that are concerned about sites of significance in this country.

    Err, they have a much harder time of it and the cultural significance of the uniqueness of this country is worth protecting.

    If you have a concern, that’s great. Go for it. But why bash others who are doing similar good work just because they get something you don’t.

    You should also take into consideration that there is a marked difference between race and culture.

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  43. Graeme2 (102 comments) says:

    I don’t think that you and I are going to agree on much Mr Tricky. However I suspect most people would accept calling someone a nut job would be character assassination.
    I have been around long enough not to get sucked in as you so eloquently put it, I have done many hours of my own research on NZ history and enough to know when someone is trying to pull the wool.

    Did you have a look at Desmond? I’ll make it easy for you here’s a link http://www.youtube.com/user/MoaiCrownStateMedia

    This may be an extreme example but this is where separatism by race is leading us imo.

    Please feel free to have the last word otherwise we will still be deabting this at Xmas.
    Over & out

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  44. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    Nope, we won’t agree. I doubt people would call that character assassination. They’d likely call it personal opinion and perhaps they might not agree with my person opinion. To call it “character assassination” you would have to be defending something. Which is what you are doing.

    You have been sucked in. Especially if you’ve done “many hours” of your own research. You haven’t twigged up front that the guy has a divisive agenda that he’s trying to push and he’s probably read 50,000 books to try and find things that mearly “suggest” what he wants to peddle and then he points you at them.

    Like, for example, the recent *revelation* that some Government supplied text have Maori in them. OMG. I mean WOW, one would think we live in, oh, I don’t know, NEW ZEALAND or something.

    Once you see this as desperation, you may very well click that it doesn’t matter what the truth is, you’ve got a guy who is trying to drive a stake between people and culture.

    Merry Christmas!

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  45. itstricky (1,701 comments) says:

    As for “Desmond”. Please don’t try to rationalise something by making comparisons to something that is more evil. Again, you are showing that you are trying to defend him.

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  46. V (694 comments) says:

    No David racially based seats are a bad idea period. None of this “well intentioned” PC BS.

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