General Debate 12 December 2013

December 12th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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206 Responses to “General Debate 12 December 2013”

  1. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    An American’s Take On “Rip-Off New Zealand”
    http://e2nz.org/migrant-stories/chapter-4/an-americans-take-on-rip-off-new-zealand/

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  2. big bruv (12,326 comments) says:

    Bye, bye Lenny Brown…

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  3. stigie (617 comments) says:

    Its getting close for Lenny Brown !!

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  4. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    Pita’s excited about sharing a bus with Naomi Campbell and Bono? Hanging out with criminals and hypocrites, just like at home then…

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  5. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    Shell out $265,000 and collect more than $10 million. It’s one of several nice little high-country earners.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/money/8659998/High-country-farmer-subdivision-profits-released

    One of Queenstown’s largest freehold blocks is on the market.
    Kawarau River Station covers the northern slopes of the Remarkables and has only twice been on the market since World War 2.

    Its northern boundary is a 14km stretch of the Kawarau River.

    ”I think for a lot of people to see such a huge block of land for sale right on the edge of Queenstown will be a real surprise,” listing agent Bas Smith said.

    The Ray White agent will not talk figures but it is understood the 1826ha property is expected to fetch well over $12 million.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/news/queenstown-lakes/280326/kawarau-block-market

    paid “$66,000″? for freehold under tenure review? National is responsible as they are doing it (although they use agents to negotiate price).

    What’s Happening To Our Lovely Little Country?

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  6. Chuck Bird (4,401 comments) says:

    Porn photo judge Lori Douglas just won’t go away: Mallick
    Manitoba judge who was in explicit photos won’t quit, and no one can make her go. Meanwhile she’s getting paid hundreds of thousands a year to stay home.

    http://www.thestar.com/news/insight/2013/11/29/porn_photo_judge_lori_douglas_just_wont_go_away_mallick.html

    Canada has the same problem as we do with mayors and judges being answerable to no one

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  7. flipper (3,268 comments) says:

    Slipping in under the MSM radar…
    The “whore’s drawers” latest Morgan poll …. and last for 2013

    National Party (45%) level with Labour/ Greens (45%) to end 2013
    December 11 2013
    Finding No: 5339

    Aka…. 30.5% Labour, 16% red melons… rats and mice …. NOT a good finish for the left wing mob.

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  8. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ hj (5,215 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 8:10 am

    That is a very interesting article. I have said for sometime that I think living in New Zealand is a lifestyle choice. If one really wants to be here, then accepting that it is expensive and the opportunities are limited is necessary.

    I guess it’s about weighing up the positives against the negatives and deciding what you want most out of life.

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  9. thedavincimode (6,102 comments) says:

    Captain Fantastic was quoted recently as saying that “the team has moved on from Martin Crowe”.

    Fortunately the former captain hasn’t.

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  10. Gulag1917 (425 comments) says:

    ‘Fake’ interpreter at Nelson Mandela memorial

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  11. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    Greens are not 16%, yesterdays Roy Morgan result:

    National Party (45%, up 0.5%)
    Maori Party 1.5% (unchanged)
    Labour Party 30.5% (down 3.5%)
    Greens 14.5% (up 3.5%)
    New Zealand First 5% (up 1.5%)
    Mana Party 1% (unchanged)
    Conservative Party of NZ 2% (unchanged)
    Others 0.5% (down 1%)

    That would make Winston the decider, or potentially Harawira if NZ First decide to stay out of Government. And if NZF fail then it’s Harawira.

    Despite more media attention than all other parties the Conservatives don’t seem to have picked up any traction.

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  12. Bovver (133 comments) says:

    So the WCC voted in a living wage, what a bunch of muppet’s how are they allowed to get away with this crap.

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  13. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    @ Judith. Not much of a life style:

    The rents and housing prices in Auckland are astronomical compared to wages. Our rental in Glen Eden was $400NZD/week for a small 3 BR. The quality of the rentals there is very poor. I don’t know how people working on average wage do it. Wellington and Christchurch aren’t much better and these three areas are pretty much where all of the actual professional jobs are located.
    //
    The average housing in Auckland was of very poor, cheap quality. Nothing’s insulated, no central or baseboard heat, single pane windows, cheap carpet and linoleum, mold all over the place from condensation from LPG heaters, cracked and warped sheetrock/gypboard from moisture damage, no such thing as a dehumidifier. Even the newer houses were super-inefficient, wasteful, environmental nightmares. They might not get snow in Auckland, and it rarely gets below 40 degrees for long, but the rain and the humidity is unrelenting. Yet nobody builds for that. What passes here for adequate is like 5 star accommodation there. The lots are small because everyone has subdivided the place to death so you’re right on top of your neighbors. Honestly, I didn’t like Auckland at all. And all the other urban areas are just the same. Once you get out in the country where you could breathe a bit, it’s a different world.

    http://e2nz.org/migrant-stories/chapter-4/an-americans-take-on-rip-off-new-zealand/

    unless your a land lord and ridding the pigs back.

    What’s Happening To Our Lovely Little Country?

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  14. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    The baubles of office.
    How shameful the venal Peters wasn’t there: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/10/somber-duty-us-presidents-hot-demand-mandelas-memo/

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  15. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Christ that Mandela memorial service was a bloody circus!

    A comedian pretending to be a sign-language interpreter..
    Politicians smiling and laughing and posing for ‘selfies’..
    And all Pita Sharples can bang on about is that he got close to Naomi Campbell…

    What a bloody joke.

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  16. flipper (3,268 comments) says:

    PG….
    Read it again….and exclude pedantry
    ****

    ” … 30.5% Labour, 16% red melons… rats and mice …. ”

    I am not sure whether Harawira is a rat or a mouse. I know that Petersparty2 is a combination if both….
    Dunne? When I lived in his electorate I voted for him. I would not now. He has been captured by the wussypussies and publicises his growing senility almost every day.

    He has been there to long for any good that he is doing etc. ….to loosely paraphrase Cromwell and Amery. :-)

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  17. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    What’s Happening To Our Lovely Little Country?

    What has gone wrong?
    *increasing the population when not justified by economic signals (rising wages). We get pressure on housing, infrastructure – a sugar rush economy?
    *PC as when Clydesdale presented a discussion paper saying immigration from the pacific islands is a net negative (i.e unable to “get real”)
    Blindness by progressives (seeing multi culturalism as a goal to be pursued over all other realities).
    Policy made by interest groups (the Property Council)?
    Exposing property to an international market and benefiting individuals over the members of the nation as a whole?

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  18. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    The Pope has been announced Time’s person of the year.

    Pope Francis, The People’s Pope

    He took the name of a humble saint and then called for a church of healing. The first non-European pope in 1,200 years is poised to transform a place that measures change by the century.

    He may be a transformational Pope if he continues how he started, promoting a frugal lifestyle (and he walks the talk), amongst the starkly contrasting Vatican’s centuries of  accumulated excesses.

    “My temple should be a house of prayer but you have made it an overkill of opulence”

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  19. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    I see Colin Craig made a lot of money as a property Investor – Way to Go! But every un earned dollar (in property investment) creates a hole that some other poor bugger has to fill… so what sort of example is that?

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  20. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Another take on this Pope: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/thank-god-the-pope-is-an-anticapitalism-socialist-2013-12-11?link=MW_latest_news

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  21. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    If you guys think ‘The Masturbating Mayor’ Len Brown is going anywhere I’ve got a shiny harbour bridge to sell you!

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11171071

    Could the Herald be any more sympathetic towards this slimy little creep?

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  22. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    More media spin…….regurgitated by the ever irrelevant PG.

    Francis is not a non European…….

    He’s an Italian born in Argentina.He is European.

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  23. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Well said Mr Franks

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/politics/news/article.cfm?c_id=280&objectid=11171000

    “But Mr Franks said the number of MPs who’ve come from the ranks of party employees parallels the emergence of a “political class”, a group of people “who’ve never done anything else with their lives”.”

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  24. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Manolo

    Another take on Pope Francis.?
    Whats fair, just or reasonable equates with socialism.?

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  25. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    Harawira is hardly a watermelon, he is more like a tamarillo. Sour with the pips.

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  26. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    Jorge Mario Bergoglio was born in and grew up in Argentina. His mother was born in Argentna. That sounds quite Argentinian to me.

    He is less European than John Key.

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  27. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    Great to read that the ‘Kiwi’ contingent in SA displayed some kiwi spirit as to who should be among the 2 to sit in the VIP’s box. No prima donnas among the blokes from down under, just like the ‘rough riders’ of over a century ago – ready to muck in.

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  28. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Longknives

    and a huge problem of the political class is they have lived on and spent other people’s money their whole lives.

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  29. Alan (908 comments) says:

    Seesh, if the whinging yank doesn’t like it here she knows where the airport is.

    I’m sure there are some crappy houses in Auckland; but she paints the entire city from her rental in West Auckland.

    I have a perfectly nice, insulated house with good heating and cooling. It’s as good as anywhere I lived in Europe and the US.

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  30. hj (5,674 comments) says:

    Background of housing in NZ
    1.4 million houses
    Most houses inhabited for 70 to 90 years
    Many houses are old, cold and damp
    High level of deferred maintenance
    Relatively low building code standards
    Declining home-ownership rate
    Mäori home-ownership rates remain lower
    No wealth tax, capital gains tax or death duties
    Around 30% of people rent from private landlords
    5% of people rent social housing
    Public consequences
    • Untaxed increase in house prices helping to fuel
    wealth concentration and income flow
    • Increase in relative inequalities has social and health
    consequences at both individual and neighbourhood
    levels
    • Housing is probably our poorest maintained
    infrastructure
    • Poor housing leads to health problems that lead to
    greater health care utilisation
    • Poor housing leads to inefficient use of energy
    http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publications/media…/tgls-howdenchapman.pdf‎

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  31. Alan (908 comments) says:

    Did anyone see the article in stuff today about the woman with 6 kids and 5 cats complaining about not getting enough help?

    She said her partner earned “just too much” to qualify for a benefit, it then goes on to say she gets $420 a week in WFF payments. If that’s not a benefit, I don’t know what is. She had her 6th kid a couple of months back despite not being able to look after the first 5.

    I’d assumed it was a joke, but it appears to be serious.

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  32. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    The U.N. dictates: http://news.msn.co.nz/worldnews/8769895/uruguay-marijuana-move-illegal

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  33. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Nostalgia.

    For Once I agree with you.
    The whining and carping over the NZ Contingent and at Mandela from many of our far right rock apes has been appalling.
    Certainly far out of step with the Nats and their leader’s mainstream thinking and feelings .

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  34. Sofia (778 comments) says:

    TPP
    Hon STEVEN JOYCE
    : “… The process, which was set up by the previous Labour Government, is that Parliament examines the treaty and considers any subsequent legislation that may arise from a treaty, but it is the Government that finally ratifies the treaty once Parliament has given its consideration on the treaty and on any treaty-related legislative matters. That is the process that the previous Government set up, the process that was adopted for the China – New Zealand free-trade agreement, and it is the process that this Government would anticipate taking place should the Trans-Pacific Partnership be agreed to.” – Hansard, December 11

    As voting for the Referendum closes, it may be ironic to see what freedoms could have been considered as national assets that the Government may yet sell-out on, never to be bought back.

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  35. wf (315 comments) says:

    That obscure website is the natural home of miserable complainers, both New Zealanders and foreigners. It’s the ultimate haven for whiners who haven’t earned their entitlement. Tiresome.

    I say: lets them feed among themselves and don’t give them oxygen.

    I suspect hj is one of them.

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  36. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Religion and politics.

    Christian leaders are mandated to have a concern for the poor and rightly so.

    The danger is when ,like Pope Francis they appear to cross a line from religion to politics ,’Render unto Caesar”

    Similarly I see the Sallies have a social policy research and parliamentary affairs unit in Wellington,is that in keeping with charitable status.

    http://www.odt.co.nz/campus/university-otago/285071/close-inequality-gap-graduates-urged

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  37. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    More on the Mandela freak-show http://www.politico.com/story/2013/12/obama-selfie-mandela-memorial-etiquette-101017.html?hp=r2_b2

    Marie Antoniette is not impressed.

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  38. Yoza (1,348 comments) says:

    I read the following essay as regularly as I possibly can: George Orwell, “Politics and the English Language,”. I think if I ever get to be the supreme global dictator the one thing I would insist on making compulsory is anyone posting anything anywhere on the internet should first be compelled to prove they have a clear understanding of this essay.

    Briefly:

    Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print.

    Never use a long word where a short one will do.

    If it is possible to cut a word out, always cut it out.

    Never use the passive where you can use the active.

    Never use a foreign phrase, a scientific word, or a jargon word if you can think of an everyday English equivalent.

    Break any of these rules sooner than say anything outright barbarous.

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  39. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Yoza

    Good commentary on writing. Unfortunately, the middle class take this as sacred right across the board and trivialise everything. Ingrained from politicians and big business.

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  40. david (2,482 comments) says:

    Yoza
    Like an understanding that:
    “gay” means light hearted and happy
    “rainbow” is an optical effect of white light fractionating into it’s component colours
    ????

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  41. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Thank you, Yoza. An excellent essay, indeed.

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  42. Chuck Bird (4,401 comments) says:

    @hj

    “I see Colin Craig made a lot of money as a property Investor – Way to Go! But every un earned dollar (in property investment) creates a hole that some other poor bugger has to fill… so what sort of example is that?”

    As I understand Colin Craig made most of his money managing other peoples commercial property.

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  43. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Hillary Clinton is deeply concerned the world is going to to de-americanise

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  44. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    That’s a practical joke of the highest order!

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  45. Chuck Bird (4,401 comments) says:

    It looks like they found they body of the missing tennis coach. What I find hard to understand is why the two men who spoke to him did not do a little more. The least they could have done was dial 111 when he headed back to the river if they could not stop him. I know I do not have all the facts but from what has been in the media those men did not say anything for a number of days.

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  46. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    .Whaaaaaaaaaaat? The Sign Language Guy At Mandela’s A “Fake”? .

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZZOTU2jBVQ

    This world is truly so full of deception it is unreal!! No pun intended! This false sign language guy makes me think of the false “signs” and wonders the false prophet will be using.You know how they always throw everything coming out there in our faces, be it good or the bad. They have to.

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  47. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    JP Morgan Chase patents bit coin

    http://investmentwatchblog.com/jp-morgan-aims-to-dominate-bitcoin/

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  48. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    Chuck – why isnt a judge allowed to be a bondage slut? not her fault private pictures came into public view.

    Not sure why the husband would want to see her being horsed by some other dude.. but it is a common thing.

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  49. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    I see that India has reinstated the law criminalising gay sex.

    NEW DELHI — In a reversal that surprised many gay activists and flew in the face of changes seen in some other countries recently, India’s Supreme Court on Wednesday overturned a lower-court ruling, in effect making homosexuality a crime again.

    The nation’s top court overturned a 2009 Delhi High Court decision that decriminalized homosexual sex between consenting adults. In Wednesday’s ruling, the top court argued that the lower court had overstepped its mandate and had no right to augment the law.

    “It is up to parliament to legislate on this issue,” said Justice G.S. Singhvi, who headed the two-judge Supreme Court bench. Wednesday was his last day before retirement.

    Given the slow pace of lawmaking in India, an upcoming election and polls suggesting the conservative Bharatiya Janata Party could unseat the ruling Congress Party in national elections, it’s likely the ban introduced under British colonial rule will remain in place for the foreseeable future.

    Wednesday’s decision stunned gay rights and social activists who expected the court to reaffirm the 2009 ruling in keeping with many of its recent decisions, which have expanded human rights and personal liberties. Social activist groups referred to the decision as “disappointing,” “regressive” and a “black day for India.”

    http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-india-gay-sex-crime-20131211,0,3560836.story#axzz2nCNstO91

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  50. Fletch (5,719 comments) says:

    Whaaaaaaaaaaat? The Sign Language Guy At Mandela’s A “Fake”? .

    As another blogger said –

    It is terribly unfortunate, and a real insult to deaf people. On the other hand, there is something really satisfying about this guy making foolish unintelligible hand gestures next to Obama doing his best “I’m the noblest person in existence” speechifying.

    http://www.ijreview.com/2013/12/100901-fake-sign-language-interpreter-behind-obama-at-mandela-memorial-made-nonsensical-signals/

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  51. MH (558 comments) says:

    What no questions today?

    Has Mandela been buried yet?
    Has Harawira come back yet?

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  52. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    From stuff:

    “While the bank held the official cash rate (OCR) at 2.5 per cent, it is expected to start rising between March and June next year to keep inflation in check.”

    Like we arent poor enough as a country. Lets make people hand over even more money to banks just for the fuck of it.

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  53. Ed Snack (1,535 comments) says:

    What’s up Dime, you must have a big mortgage or outstanding loans ? Low interest is a curse to those who save, a boon to those who waste. Banks take a commission, which need not be related to actual rates at all, what you’re complaining about is people paying to use what other people have saved now rather than defer the spending into the future. Interest rates are just a reflection of the time-value of money, and rates that are too low encourage excessive consumption.

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  54. MH (558 comments) says:

    And yes JK has been recognised in the RSA – by a former member of the Red Squad, Ross Meurant.

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  55. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    Ed – my mortgage isn’t huge. Should be gone in 5 years.

    (im more worried about the labour/green/mana/nz first punishment tax rates that are coming).

    The amount of money people are paying into mortgages every week is nuts. It leaves fuck all left over for the rest of the economy.

    I do have sympathy for the people trying to live off their returns from the bank. at the same time though, its not like we are currently sitting with an official cash rate of 0.0%

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  56. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Doing it for Gaia: http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/15603/

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  57. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    How very queer.

    Colin Craig gave a very good account of himself on last nights’ 3rd Degree and we hear nothing from the usual attack dog pack.

    They must be very disappointed……..and worried!

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  58. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    We live in strange times.

    A soldier may face charges for using his initiative to kill the enemy.

    Once upon a time he’d have been given a commendation.

    The UK is doing the same ,charging soldiers all over the shop.

    There is another enemy, the permanent political class at home.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11170299

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  59. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    There’s been that much media coverage of Craig over the past three weeks I don’t think 3rd Degree added much id anything.

    Yesterday’s Roy Morgan poll showed the Conservative Party as pretty much the same as usual as well, despite all the Craig exposure.

    I wouldn’t be worried if Craig and a few others made it into Parliament if they can it on the back benches getting some experience, but I’d be more concerned if someone as politically naive as Craig appears to be has too much influence too quickly.

    And the top few on the Conservative list could be significant, especially if stacked with people with agenda’s like last time. Could Craig keep them under control?

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  60. Reid (15,507 comments) says:

    What else can be said?

    How much more support do the Conservatives have over United First on current polling, Pete? What’s the comparative ratio? Something like 20 to 1, isn’t it? Conservatives have around 20 times more support than UF? Is that about right, or is it more than that?

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  61. Chuck Bird (4,401 comments) says:

    @Dime

    I would think it should be self evident why this slut should not be a judge let alone a Chief Family Court Judge. The following link my explain why better than I can.

    http://henrymakow.com/loridouglassacndal_is_a_disgrace.html

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  62. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    What’s the relevance of that Reid? If UF don’t make it back in it won’t make any difference to Craig’s lack of political nous or experience. It won’t change the CP risk.

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  63. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    kowtow (5,874 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 11:07 am

    Colin Craig.?
    Are you a Moon Hoaxer and 9/11 Twoofer by chance.??

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  64. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    Chuck – doesnt bother me what she gets up to in the bedroom.

    There are tons of bondage chicks out there. look how popular 50 shades was..

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  65. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    The whore from Ohariu snipes: http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1312/S00201/dunne-wary-of-commerce-commission-review.htm

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  66. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    Manolo, do you want less autonomy and transparency for the Commerce Commission? More Government interference?

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  67. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Sorry, a Nat fanboy ,stephieboy has come out of his kennel to have a go at Colin C.

    Stephie ‘s not growling with bared teeth,more like a whimper …….or barking mad.

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  68. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Not at all, P.G., I only highlight the amusing fact that these days the whore from Ohariu appears to speak against the same government he was part of until a few months ago (as a result of his own indiscretions).

    Interesting coincidence, isn’t it?

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  69. James Stephenson (1,885 comments) says:

    There are tons of bondage chicks out there. look how popular 50 shades was..

    The only questionable standards around this case IMO are that we’re accepting of the fact that male judges and politicians have been paying to be tied up and whipped for years…

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  70. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Christchurch people in dire need of homes

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9506524/Christchurch-people-in-dire-need-of-homes

    The truth is MP’s are never in dire need of anything. The world never affects them.

    And they sposed to be civil SERVANTS

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  71. RightNow (6,337 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9508594/Charges-dropped-against-former-Pike-boss

    The Pike River miners’ families are to receive over $3 million in compensation. That should be enough for them to fund a private prosecution against Whittall. The taxpayer has paid enough already, if they need ‘justice’ let them fund it themselves.

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  72. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    Manolo – so you agree with him but criticise him for saying it? You’d fit well in opposition, bitch for the sake of it.

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  73. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    if a male judge had a pic come out of him being blown.. would he have to resign?

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  74. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Yoza (980 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 9:59 am
    Recall that Orwell was a trenchant critic of Stalin and other far left ideologues.
    Stalin’s Russia and Mao’s China for example saw the world of double and newspeak become a tragic reality and nightmare .!

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  75. RightNow (6,337 comments) says:

    “male judges and politicians have been paying to be tied up and whipped for years…”

    Don’t forget cricket umpires. I wonder how much Peter Plumley-Walker paid to be thrown over Huka Falls.

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  76. Ed Snack (1,535 comments) says:

    Dime, but the fact that people borrow too much is inversely related to interest rates, if they’d been higher in the past the housing ” bubble” would be less inflated. Low interest rates lead to potential misallocations of valuable capital, it represents a low future value for money and thus encourages higher current spending and investment in non-income generating capital assets like housing. Much of this is driven by the Keynesian viewpoint that a depressed economy needs to spend more now, something that in certain circumstances like the 1929-30 depression (with its particular circumstances and policy formulations) may be empirically correct, but something entirely misused today where it is entirely driven by political calculations on buying votes.

    The biggest downside to NZ having higher rates is that as a small trade based economy it is difficult for us to be too far out of step with our trading partners, regardless of how destructive their policies are. As long as the US continues to monetize its debt and the rest of the world ignores the money printing, then I can understand why NZ must be very cautious of raising interest rates as it will push the value of the NZ$ up markedly.

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  77. Pete George (21,798 comments) says:

    Interesting from Jane Clifton in the Listener:

    Politician of the Year: Colin Craig
    Runner-up: David Cunliffe

    But…
    Finalists: Shanks, Calder, Ardern, S Jones, Goodhew, Tremain, Guy, Moroney, Lees-Galloway, Mahuta, Graham, O’Rourke, Prasad, A Williams

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  78. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘The biggest downside to NZ having higher rates’

    I can’t understand why higher rates are justified in this country when so many still rely on credit debt.

    Tis curious to ponder

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  79. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘The Pike River miners’ families are to receive over $3 million in compensation.’

    Apparently I hear they all drowned their sorrows in drugs.

    I rather suspect that’s a kiwi Blog inspired rumour

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  80. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    “Don’t forget cricket umpires. I wonder how much Peter Plumley-Walker paid to be thrown over Huka Falls.”

    i said put hooks in my balls! not throw me over the huka falls…

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  81. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    Government crackdown on inefficiency

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/world/9507994/Government-crackdown-on-inefficiency

    Bummer! I thought this was about a NZ govt initiative against consultants et al

    I am so naieve!!

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  82. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    Ed – correct. we are tiny, we are dictated to. I guess if we jack our rates and the dollar goes up, Dime makes more GP. will maybe compensate for lower sales as we become poorer and poorer!

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  83. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘and the rest of the world ignores the money printing,…’

    But the rest of the world is not ignoring US money printing.

    China and Russia are creating a new currency and the US dollar has lost its reserve status.

    That will obviously go to the Yuan.

    The US experiment in Federal Reserve lending to govt has failed.

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  84. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘Dime makes more GP. will maybe compensate for lower sales as we become poorer and poorer!’

    So when you moving to the land of the Yuan Dime ??

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  85. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘Pay rises sink to GFC levels

    Lower salary rises were noted across the country, including Wellington. Auckland was the only centre on average offering higher than market-level pay.

    Thirty-one per cent of New Zealand organisations told the survey they planned to cut staff in the next 12 months, compared with 44 per cent in Australia.

    “Despite the tightening budgets and downsizing, employers know they have to remain competitive

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9509142/Pay-rises-sink-to-GFC-levels

    At the same time luxury car sales have gone up. So who is buying those…..the workers?

    Don’t think so

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  86. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    wiki – have you lost out to the chinese lately? you seem obsessed?

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  87. Rich Prick (1,319 comments) says:

    “So the WCC voted in a living wage, what a bunch of muppet’s how are they allowed to get away with this crap.”

    I think I shall start paying “living rates”. They will be considerably less than I currently pay to fund that circus.

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  88. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘wiki – have you lost out to the chinese lately? you seem obsessed?’

    Just been informed there is a huge Chinese consulate in Auks no one is allowed to enter. Not even couriers.

    Was told of very large buildings by someone who managed to peer through the gates.

    Be not surprised if China buys nuclear powered ships how fast our nuclear policy will change.

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  89. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    wiki – have you lost out in business to cheap chinese labour?

    i know there is an anti-chinese builder feeling out there.

    not that i know any unemployed tradesmen..

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  90. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Stalins Russia and Mao’s China can be understood for engaging in Orwellian speech as they were totalitarian dictatorships and one must expect that from them……..

    but why does the formerly free wests’ media ,intelligentia and politicians engage so readily in it?

    Discipline is now child abuse.
    Alcohol and tobacco are now drugs.
    Exceeding the speed limit by 4 ks is speeding
    Husbands and wives are partners….as are “same sex marriage” participants.
    A girl or boy friend is also a partner
    Abortion is a D and C
    Pro choice is actually pro death
    Illegal immigrants are asylum seekers
    Firemen are firefighters
    A chairman is now a piece of furniture,simply a chair.
    Police forces are now police services.
    The army is a defence force.
    Greens are reds.
    China is a free and open economy.
    New Zealand is Aotearoa.

    etc

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  91. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    ‘not that i know any unemployed tradesmen’

    The tradesmen have all gaped it leaving a gap polytechs are exploiting to lure youth to trade training.

    I remember when apprenticeships paid youth to learn. Now youth are lumped with a student debt created by the Nat/Lab coalition.

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  92. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    The slippery slope towards ‘The Zimbabwe of the Pacific’ continues…

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9509395/Ruling-to-speak-English-a-great-offence

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  93. dime (8,746 comments) says:

    wiki – no worries. thanks for quoting me, not answering and going off on a tangent..

    none of my tradesmen buddies have left NZ. all doing well

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  94. Paulus (2,292 comments) says:

    I hear from several long conversations with a lifetime friend in South Africa (ex pre Mugabe Rhodesia) that nobody considers that New Zealand (except in New Zealand) has anything to crow about in the movement from White Apartheid to Black rule.
    It is and was not considered an integral realistic part of the internal movement.
    Stupid Rugby match disruptions can hardly be called being important.
    Considerable movement in South Africa was taken by white colonials, who seriously influenced the Government into changing the way of life in the 1960s and 1970s onwards.
    These were such as Lawyers, Judges, Business men and business Owners and employers of numerous black labour.
    Some of the judgements given in the courts were considered most unfair by the legal profession but were ordained by Political laws, and a number of senior judges were most unhappy at the way they were to apply the laws.
    A number of these like thinking men were deported as they continued their aim at removing Apartheid.
    They were not of Dutch (Boer) stock though, who continued their fight to keep the status quo which they had for many hundreds of years stretching back to the real South Africans of only the Hottentots (roaming tribes).
    The Black African we know today graduated from as far away as the Sudan and migrated over hundreds of years to what we know as South Africa today.
    I wonder what the movement in New Zealand really had to do with the change from one Apartheid to a new Apartheid prevailing in South Africa.
    The gap between the new very haves and the remainder of the people is totally disproportionate, as most of the non haves have not moved since the removal of Apartheid. It is believed that the blame will be taken out of the non blacks ie white people, under the public instigation and denigration by the Zuma regime, to avoid any queries as to the role of the haves.
    Following his booing at the memorial service only 2/3rd full will exacerbate his crackdown, towards Mugabeville.
    Probably the greatest movers in Africa China can stop it.
    M’Bama showed the world in his speech what the problem is, starting with him. His sign language was poor too from reading his speech.

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  95. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Hate speech? Of course!
    http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/365825/british-man-arrested-making-nelson-mandela-joke-charles-c-w-cooke

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  96. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    kowtow (5,876 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 1:20 pm

    You have no sense of history. Your list of p c does not compare with e.g Stalin’s Show and Purge trials of the 1930s that allowed him to subject the population of Russia to his totalitarian rule.
    Mao likewise where with under both millions and millions perished in the process of collectivization and purges .
    China may have a free and open economy but certainly is not politically free as we understand it. Sadly Putin’s Russia is going the same way it seems.
    Discipling Children is not child abuse. But hitting them is.Why is it OK for an adult to hit a child but not hitting another adult.?
    In what precise ways is your list impacting on your personal freedoms.?

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  97. Chuck Bird (4,401 comments) says:

    “Why is it OK for an adult to hit a child but not hitting another adult.?”

    When did you stop beating your wife?

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  98. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    stephieboy

    You cited double /newspeak ,i cited same.Nothing to do with grasp of history.

    You have now expanded the issue to show trials which you didn’t mention earlier.

    By coincidence,manolo @ 231 has just given us a perfect example of a modern western style show “arrest”,part of the cultural marxism that you seem to embrace.

    If you are the future of the National Party ,God help Aotearoa,formerly New Zealand.

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  99. Scott Chris (5,675 comments) says:

    Low interest is a curse to those who save, a boon to those who waste.

    Maybe, but in a world full of low interest rates a relatively high rate with the accompanying overvalued currency is a curse for exporters.

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  100. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    The lunatics, read Greenies, in charge of the asylum: http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/wellington/9509468/Wellington-City-Council-signs-off-on-2-5-pc-rates-rise

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  101. Rowan (1,728 comments) says:

    Annoying that the Cricket is again being delayed by rain although hopefully it will make batting difficult for WI and they can be skittled cheaply, will be a real shame if another game is drawn because of the weather.

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  102. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    Actually, it was Aoetearoa before it was New Zealand … Just to be picky.

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  103. Paulus (2,292 comments) says:

    Judith

    Bullshit – please show us where you get this crap from.
    There was no common language only tribal grunt, or written work.
    Prove it or shut up.

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  104. muggins (2,899 comments) says:

    Judith,
    Just to be picky.
    The original derivation of Aotearoa is not known. In the 19th century Aotearoa was sometimes used to refer to the North Island only.
    The most popular name for the North Island was Te Ika -a-Maui.
    The South Island was called Te Waipounama.
    Then a European wrote a history of New Zealand in the late 1800′s and used the name Aotearoa and sometime after that Maori began to use the word Aotearoa for both the North and South Islands.

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  105. thedavincimode (6,102 comments) says:

    Steady on muggins. We don’t want this turning into a 3,000 +er. :lol:

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  106. Inky_the_Red (718 comments) says:

    The Minister of Education failure to follow process has cost the tax payer at least $200,000

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/schools/9509292/School-wins-court-costs-fight
    “A further judgement released today ordered Parata to pay the school’s $99,315.25 costs, after the two were unable to reach an agreement over the figure. “…

    The Press revealed last month that almost $100,000 of taxpayers’ money had so far been spent on Parata’s unsuccessful defence in court.

    Information received through the Official Information Act showed $96,729.68 had so far been spent on Crown Law fees and other court costs.

    The figure was likely to rise further, since the final costs would not be known “for some time”, the Ministry of Education said.

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  107. wikiriwhis business (3,276 comments) says:

    MPs ‘appalled’ by dropped Pike River charges

    Opposition MPs have condemned the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment’s decision to drop charges against former Pike River boss Peter Whittall.

    They say a decision in the case should have been decided in court not be left up to some “back-room deal between lawyers” to decide whether someone was guilty or not.

    Twelve health and safety charges laid against Whittall were today dropped in Christchurch District Court, where it was also announced there would be a $3.41 million payment to the families of the 29 men who died, and the two survivors.

    The Minister of Labour Simon Bridges has refused to comment.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/9510160/MPs-appalled-by-dropped-Pike-River-charges

    Typical National govt. Cave Creek was the same under Bulger. When the environment minister went to do the right thing and resign Bulger stopped him. Never, ever take responsibility.

    Tarred with the same feathers is Gerry Brownlee not allowing a memorial for the numbers killed in Chch. As if it’s his business

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  108. Steve (North Shore) (4,317 comments) says:

    The other day I saw a vid clip about the dangers of social networking and pedophiles. It was acted, with a young girl advertising that she was 10 years old, the front door of the house was left open and the pedophile walked in. The video then progressed to young people being asked questions about security on their internet use.
    I made a comment saying is was time to re remind my grandkids of these dangers. Now I can’t find the post or my comments.

    How do I search Kiwiblog for comments I have made? The vid clip seems to have disapeared – unless it was a youtube link within a post. I realy want to reinforce this with my grandkids but I can’t find the post or the vid clip.

    Anyone remember this?

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  109. RRM (8,988 comments) says:

    I see the plug has finally been pulled on the taxpayer subsidised Holden plant…

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  110. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    “Actually, it was Aoetearoa before it was New Zealand … Just to be picky.”

    The Dutch named these lands ‘New Zealand’ in 1645.
    The name ‘Aotearoa’ was fabricated in the late 19th century (As Muggins points out- by a European ‘Historian’)..

    Once again, we eagerly await your apology Judith..

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  111. Dean Papa (614 comments) says:

    this it, Steve?

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/11/80419.html

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  112. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Longknives (3,486 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Can you document further your assertion about the fabrication of Aoetearoa.?

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  113. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Stephieboy- Happy to oblige. After you and Judith have provided some empirical evidence of Maori using that ridiculous terminology ‘Aotearoa’ prior to 1645…

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  114. Harriet (4,008 comments) says:

    “…..Stalins Russia and Mao’s China can be understood for engaging in Orwellian speech as they were totalitarian dictatorships and one must expect that from them……..
    but why does the formerly free wests’ media ,intelligentia and politicians engage so readily in it?…”

    Because western governments are swapping Judeo-Christian morality for humanism.

    Humanism – the current government belief that a ‘full life’ is all about ‘self-actualisation’ where a person does what they want and that any negative experiances that happens upon themselves or others from that are mere ‘learning points’ ‘experiance’ or ‘part of the journey’. Hence why school kids are now having ‘high self-esteem’ installed into them – so that they can deal with ‘victimhood’ from other’s actions.
    Morals and the effects of one’s actions on others is meaningless to these people – and that’s why the kids are now also being taught about ‘anti-bullying’ – victims of humanism are starting to appear everywhere in the younger generations. This won’t end well – policing speech never has!

    Vices and Virtues have sufficed for millenia in building safe & free societies , but no more, policing speech is the way to go!

    BTW Kowtow: Toddlers like to “self actualize” and expect the world to become their wet nurse. And everyone else can pay for their mental health care problems and lower productivity. And John Key fully agrees with them.

    Here’s an example:

    “….What Young Gay Men Don’t Know; the author talks about walking the streets of San Francisco in the ’80′s and the utter shock of seeing the street lined with “walking cadavers” – men dying from AIDS. Prior to that unfettered gay sex had been celebrated and encouraged…”

    Aids and other sexual diseases are rampant in NZ’s gay community due to ‘self-actualisiation’ and Key wants us to support that view of life – and pay for the consequences!

    Progs like the gays & Key are permanently cemented to their genitalia, like some mutant strain of evolving anti-humanity. :cool:

    The problem then becomes who sets the rules for what ‘self-actualizers’ do?

    “….So in the case where the husband abandons the wife with breast cancer and 2 small children, because he wants to find himself, and discovers that he is kinder and more pleasant AWAY from the pressures of dealing with a sick wife and small children- and therefore feels better about himself, is exactly the kind of twisted morality we are starting to see among the secular self actualizers. They have a heirarchy of attention and pleasure with themselves at the center.

    They are willing to let others pay whatever cost is necessary for them to have what they want. If the wife complains about the trauma of the abandonment, he tells her that is her issue, and that all suffering is a choice. That then becomes his OWN definition of self-actualizing – and society is the worse for it, as they leave a trail of social and emotional destruction in their wake…”

    For Progs, however, any kind of self actualization that upsets the sensibilities of assimilated society is good self actualization.

    Prog multi culti is actually a celebration of a coalition of anti-values[morals], whose proponents ‘self actualize’ by expressing intolerance of the values of ‘being white’ – as if being white were some kind of value colonialism! :cool:

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  115. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    stephieb

    Some things are just common knowledge ,to relatively well informed folk ,which you are either not ,or you are simply being an argumentative ,annoying prat looking for “documentation of assertions.”

    I doubt you are a member of Notional as you claim to be ,your opinions appear to be those of a Green and a rather naive one at that.

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  116. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,487 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    As you well know, and if you don’t you should do, Maori had no written language, and therefore there is no ‘empirical evidence’ such as the sort you are requesting.

    There is no ‘empirical evidence’ of many things in history, particularly concerning cultures similar to Maori, therefore historians are left to determining the signs and symbols and historical cultural features to determine what occurred.

    In the case of the naming of ‘this place’ – of course there wasn’t consensus – there were many Iwi, hapu and whanau – and there were many different descriptions, however, the most common ‘sound/word’ (description) was that of Aotearoa – which was used by the majority.

    Of course that won’t suit your purposes, but you need to be careful – if you start excluding such diagnostic methods, then you will find an awful lot of the worlds place names would need to changed.

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  117. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,487 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 6:23 pm

    Muggins has quite simply adopted one of the explanations that has been given by people ‘like you’ who would prefer to think that no one was here before ‘white man’ and that those that were here never had names for anything, never had ownership of anything and still have no rights.

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  118. Harriet (4,008 comments) says:

    “….Of course that won’t suit your purposes, but you need to be careful – if you start excluding such diagnostic methods, then you will find an awful lot of the worlds place names would need to changed….’

    ‘…need…’

    Stop talking shit Judith:

    Define ‘need’.

    NZ has never ‘needed’ to be called anything other than given a name for geographical reasons! :cool:

    the only reason a name change is suggested is to satisfy the ‘emotional needs’ -what ever the fuck that is- of the current Maori and white liberals.

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  119. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    “the most common ‘sound/word’ (description) was that of Aotearoa – which was used by the majority.”

    With all due respect Judith that is a load of utter Codswallop.

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  120. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Harriet (3,135 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:13 pm

    I was simply referring to the fact that there are many cities and place names throughout the world that have similar origins to Aotearoa – in that they were given by the local people and became the ‘popular’ name, and then when written language arrived they were translated into writing. If we are going to insist that those sorts of names are not suitable, then a vast amount of the world is going to have to be renamed because that is how most of it was named.

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  121. nasska (9,479 comments) says:

    Judith

    Since we are taught to develop enquiring minds it is no surprise that most of us reject mythology & legends for the load of bollocks that they are. My antennae get really twitchy when anything Maori is mentioned because it usually means that the gimmes are launching another attack on the public purse.

    That said, the “Te Ara” website has a reasonably plausible explanation for how “Aotearoa” came into usage.

    Ref: http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/1966/aotearoa

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  122. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,488 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:17 pm

    Prove I’m wrong!

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  123. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    Prior to 1645?

    The Maoris who attacked the Dutchies ,Tasman et al are lost to history.We only know of the encounter from the Dutch side.
    Local maori had no knowledge of it up in Golden Bay.Probably eaten.
    Reference…..Visit to locality.

    Puts a whole new perspective on the old schoolboy excuse for not doing your homework.

    Pre European Maori teacher to Maori schoolboy…..

    “eh fella ,wears yo history assignment,eh?”

    “eh sorry sir the whanau ate them ,eh”

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  124. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ nasska (8,314 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:18 pm

    My argument has nothing specifically to do with Maori, but what is common historically throughout the world. People, most of who did not have written language gave names to particular parts of the land (geography). Those names became used commonly and eventually the place to ‘called’ by that. This happened world wide.

    I know what Te Ara says, but I also know that the ‘word’ (not written) Aotearoa was used by Maori before Europeans arrived here. Yes, it wasn’t used by all, but was the most ‘common’ word used.

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  125. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    So according to Te Ara ,in 1966 Aotearoa was the Maori name for New Zealand.

    Jump to 2013 and it’s now the government’s official name for New Zealand in Maori.

    The broification continues.

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  126. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    That your only comeback thus far Judith has been to accuse me of racism would suggest you know you are well beaten. You appear to have a very,very poor grasp of New Zealand History…

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  127. thedavincimode (6,102 comments) says:

    Keep pumping out that Christian message of love and compassion kowtow.

    You might want to tell that one to your priest. You could also tell it to G** tonight when you lie to him about your day.

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  128. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Longknives (3,488 comments) says:
    Happy to oblige.???
    You made the assertion that the name Aotearoa was fabricated ( made up) in the late 19th C. Now can you document that with evidence, sources and links .can you cite the Historian who allegedly stated that the Maori “fabricated” the name ??

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  129. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ kowtow (5,882 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    I think it was wrong to change the name. The most common usage for more than a century should have remained.

    All I am arguing is that the name Aotearoa existed before ‘New Zealand’ – however, I think our society has changed (did change a long time ago) and that it is wrong to take it back by changing the name back.

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  130. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,489 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:23 pm

    I am not ‘beaten’ – even the link provided above disproves your ‘theory’. Thinking of you as a racist is probably the least offensive of what I think you are – so don’t worry about.

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  131. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    What could be worse than an ‘evil racist’ Judith?

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  132. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    I’ve concluded the joker doing the bullshit signing for the deaf at Mandela’s funeral is also Cunliffe’s CV writer.

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  133. OneTrack (1,957 comments) says:

    Judith “in that they were given by the local people and became the ‘popular’ name, ”

    You mean like “New Zealand” :-)

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  134. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,490 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Who called you evil? Actually, I didn’t even call you a racist, that is just your definition of what I said – probably a fair enough interpretation, however, I wouldn’t call you evil – not in a million years – in order to be evil, you’d need to have the ability to determine the opposite – I don’t think you have that ability.

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  135. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ OneTrack (1,271 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Yes, exactly like that – and because it became the most dominant name, it should be kept – until some other dominant peoples decide to rename us – perhaps we’ll be ‘New Korea’ or something one day! :-)

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  136. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Ahoy Kea – and other Kiwiblog defenders of the faithless, note this if you care about fellow atheists.

    Atheists face the death penalty in 13 Muslim countries, reports Reuters. To be fair people in these countries face death also if they in other ways reject Islamic religion.

    Even in India, the agency reports:

    …humanists say police are often reluctant or unwilling to investigate murders of atheists carried out by religious fundamentalists.

    Reuters adds in its report:

    Across the world … “there are laws that deny atheists’ right to exist, revoke their citizenship, restrict their right to marry, obstruct their access to public education, prevent them working for the state….”

    http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/12/10/us-religion-atheists-idUKBRE9B900G20131210

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  137. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Thanks Judith- I will get back to swilling moonshine on my deck whilst playing my banjo..
    By the way- You still haven’t provided ANY evidence whatsoever that ‘Aotearoa’ was used by any Maori prior to 1645…So this old toothless hillbilly with half a brain is still outwitting you..

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  138. kowtow (6,690 comments) says:

    dawinci

    Why do you insist on bringing religion to everything ?

    As Red would say you’re an obsessive .

    and a bore.

    Missing kea kissing ass, nasskarse seems to be?

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  139. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Re Longknives (7.43): was there any concept of a nation or one country or even one land?

    How can we ever know if the only possible evidence was unwritten?

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  140. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Longknives (3,491 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:43 pm

    Check out the link Nasska gave.
    There isn’t ‘evidence’ of the sort you are seeking – just as there isn’t such evidence for the vast majority of places that have historical names – quite simply because there was no written language.

    You aren’t outwitting anyone Longknives, you are just being factious, that would be like me asking you to provide evidence on here of what gender you are – its a pointless exercise, because no matter what you posted, there is no certainty, it would be you. Nothing I post can answer your question, which is exactly why you have asked it – the only person you have out smarted is yourself – asking a question for which you already know the answer – and request empirical evidence when you know there isn’t any – does not make you right – it just confirms you are one of the other things I think you are.

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  141. nasska (9,479 comments) says:

    Jack5

    Atheists in NZ come under too much fire from the local Godwhacks for us to have much time to assist our overseas brethren. :)

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  142. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Jack5 (3,750 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:49 pm

    The vast majority of the worlds history is exactly the same. However, historians have been able to piece large chunks together, sufficiently to give a ‘picture’ of how it was.

    The one thing is certain, Maori most certainly had a reasonably ‘common name’ for the place – if they didn’t, they would be the only known culture that didn’t have at least symbols or sounds to represent the land they resided in.

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  143. Harriet (4,008 comments) says:

    An entire ‘culture’ that for over 600yrs hasn’t ever done anything ‘significant’ to warrant naming a country after them.

    Maybe giving NZ a Maori name like say…..Bennetearoa……would be more factualy and culturaly correct! :cool:

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  144. nasska (9,479 comments) says:

    On the first day of Christmas, my true love gave to me…

    Fucking socks.

    On the second day of Christmas my new love gave to me…

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  145. Harriet (4,008 comments) says:

    On the second day of Christmas my new love gave to me…

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Tj6kYfAmt8 :cool:

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  146. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    The understanding of what the original inhabitants of counties actually called themselves can be quite complex..Scotland comes to mind. We know the Romans named it Caledonia and Basque traders BC named it Alba ( later Albion applied to also what is now England
    Alba referred to White skin- the people who lived there.
    The Vikings named it Pictland .Scoti is a term I understand used by the Anglo Saxons to describe the area and what we now call Scotland.
    But what the Picts called their land is apparently unknown and could be explained by the fact that their various tribes gave significance and name to the local area they occupied.Their unity was largely derived by a common language, religious belief and customs rather like the Maori .
    Yet the Maori are perfectly entitled to give a a name to a land they have occupied for some 700 years if they choose to do so and there is absolutely no reason why Abel Tasman’s naming should be given any greater preference.

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  147. Steve (North Shore) (4,317 comments) says:

    Dean Papa.
    “Dean Papa (511 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 6:23 pm
    this it, Steve?

    http://www.kiwiblog.co.nz/2013/11/80419.html

    Yes it is, thankyou, I owe you one

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  148. muggins (2,899 comments) says:

    Judith
    Aotearoa only became the widely used Maori name for New Zealand in the early 1900′s.
    Aotea was the name used for Great Barrier Island .
    More North Island Maori used the name Te Ika -a- Maui for the North Island than any other name.
    The majority of South Island Maori used the name Te Waipounama for the South Island.
    They did not use the name Aotearoa for either the South Island or the North Island until the early 1900′s. That is when they started using the word Aotearoa as the Maori name for New Zealand.

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  149. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Harriet (3,141 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    An entire ‘culture’ that for over 600yrs hasn’t ever done anything ‘significant’ to warrant naming a country after them.

    Precisely the same kind of arguments Hitler used agains”sub human” Poles and other Slavs .!

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  150. Steve (North Shore) (4,317 comments) says:

    Judith is digging – please stop Judith. We respect you now, but please don’t fall into the trap.
    1645 is the year- something about a novel zealandia

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  151. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Steve (North Shore) (4,071 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 8:52 pm

    Another idiot let loose for the evening. So Steve, you think Maori are the only known culture in the history of the world that never had a name for the land they lived on? WOW, just fucking WOW – how unique is that !! You’re a FW!

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  152. UglyTruth (3,002 comments) says:

    Waters compared artists playing concerts in Israel to those who performed in Nazi Germany. “Many people did, back in the day. There were many people that pretended that the oppression of the Jews was not going on. From 1933 until 1946. So this is not a new scenario. Except that this time it’s the Palestinian People being murdered.”

    http://www.jpost.com/Jewish-World/Jewish-News/Pink-Floyd-co-founder-Waters-draws-parallels-between-Israel-Nazi-Germany-334484

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  153. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    Colonist, 11 July 1862.

    O friends! here are laws for all of you, dwelling in every place of Aotearoa.

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  154. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Judith posted at 7.53:

    The vast majority of the worlds history is exactly the same. However, historians have been able to piece large chunks together, sufficiently to give a ‘picture’ of how it was.

    Rot! Written history began about 4000BC. The story of the world before that is sometimes called pre-history.

    Writing and thus written history in Egypt and Mesopotamia goes back 5000 years.Chinese written history goes back at least 3500 years.

    Written history is more than a “picture”. It gives a frozen record from the past.

    If you want to see potential weaknesses of oral history try the test in a room of 15 or more people. Give a short story to the first person, who then must retell it to the second (who has not heard the first telling of course), and so on to the fifteenth. Then compare the short story told by the fifteenth person with the original.

    Wouldn’t it be great if we had written records of the Polynesian voyagers to NZ, instead of the myths about fishing up islands?

    Judith, I think you are the poster who backs both NZ First and the Bainiacs. I hope you are using more reliable methods than oral history in any work you do for these groups.

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  155. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Ugly Truth the Palestinians are not being exterminated of liquidated as happened to the Jews in Poland as a consequence of the deliberations at the Wansee Conference and Nazi racial ideology,

    http://www.ghwk.de/

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  156. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Jack5 (3,751 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Yes Jack, written word can be found that far back, but it was only by ‘few’ and certainly not the majority and not in every culture. There are many cultures that did not have a written language – Maori being just one of them. They have their ‘folklore’ as do most cultures but like with most cultures there is also other evidence, told through common forms of language, that exists alongside the tales.

    I never said that the entire history of the world exists solely in oral communication, however, many many name places were developed by those people who did not have the ability to write. Many of the common name places used throughout the world today have their origins in ‘unwritten forms’.
    You don’t seriously believe that nothing had a name until people learned to ‘write’ do you?

    No I don’t support NZ first – but I do believe David Bain is innocent.

    Don’t tell me you are yet another person that defines the whole world, and every person based on their opinion of that?

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  157. muggins (2,899 comments) says:

    I actually like the word Aotearoa. All I am saying is that is wasn’t the original Maori name for New Zealand.
    Wanganui/ Whanganui is similar, in a way.
    The Maori word Whanganui means big bay/harbour. So the correct spelling of the big bay the Whanganui river flows into is Whanganui and it would also be correct to spell the Whanganui river with an h.
    But the city of Wanganui was not named by Maori. The Maori settlement on the river opposite where the town was settled was called Putiki. The European settlement on the other side of the river was called Petre[ pronounced Peter] after Lord Petre.
    However the settlers didn’t like the name and wanted it changed to Wanganui but without the h because they felt the h looked ugly.
    Parramatta, in Sydney, is probably a straight out misspelling of the aborigine word burramatta , burra meaning place and matta meaning eels. I wonder if the name will ever be changed to the aborigine spelling? Somehow I doubt that will ever happen.
    I mean would the Parramatta Eels supporters agree to a name change?

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  158. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    Wouldn’t it be great if we had written records of the Polynesian voyagers to NZ

    Glyphs dude, lots and lots of glyphs.

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  159. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    f you haven’t got a clue about the name Aotearoa, even though you thought you did, change the subject to Whanganui, pr even Parramatta just to show how thick you are.

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  160. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    Judith, I surmise you are not bright,
    All KB readers are able to tell
    That for the multiple murderer you were an easy sell
    No doubt you’re a recalcitrant Bainite.

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  161. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Jack

    Also, yes chinese whispers is revealing, however, you are forgetting there were other means of communication, and that was symbols used to record knowledge etc.

    We are talking about name places here – they had to be accurate in order for people to pass on knowledge and directions for e.g good hunting grounds, water, food, other people etc. I cannot believe you and others think that nothing had a ‘name’ until someone learned to write. How the hell do you think people found their way? I realise it takes a bit of commonsense, but if you can log on to a computer I’m sure you can work it out.

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  162. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Judith why bring David Bain into the discussion about the name Aoteararoa. ?
    It makes you appear like a Propagandist and poster of bombast.!
    Maybe you are one.?

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  163. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Manolo (11,568 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    Grow up! Another person that thinks people didn’t name anything until they could write, and that a person’s opinion on the Bain case defines the world! You are getting awfully boring.

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  164. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy (143 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 9:27 pm

    I didn’t bring it up. Jack5 did when he referred to me as a Bainiac at 9.10 pm. I simply answered him.

    But feel free to draw any conclusion you like -

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  165. Steve (North Shore) (4,317 comments) says:

    Judith will be back at Uni next year like after the holidays.
    Next study will be psyco this that or something, watch out Kiwibloggers, Judith is on your case, and getting paid megabucks by you

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  166. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Steve (North Shore) (4,072 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 9:36 pm

    What a load of shyte. I am not paid by taxpayers money at all, and I’ve posted here all year, why would I be going anywhere else after the holidays ? … either you’re a dysfunctional stalker or you’re delusional or perhaps a mix of both.

    PS and no, I am not a psychologist. So far you’re wrong on all counts! Not a very good detective are you?

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  167. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    Manolo runs a shop that sells stagnant criticisms disguised as wit. The dear chappette has a Christmas special – attempts at poetry that will make you sick. Way to go moano!

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  168. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    But thinking things of David Bain.

    The myth his father was on medication for Depression as stated in Trial by Ambush

    Excerpts from the 2009 trial transcript :

    Raftery is cross- examining a choir member who also had a son in the choir.

    Q. What was it about your interaction with Robin perhaps a week before his death that led you to conclude he wasn’t depressed?

    A. It was the suggestion that two fathers and two sons could work up a quartet to perform as a choir item and obviously in making that suggestion to me and indicating that he would look up suitable musical items for us to practice he had what I would call a positive view of the future.

    Raftery cross examining Cyril Wilden.

    Q. Are you a clinical psychologist?
    A. I’m not a clinical psychologist I am an educational psychologist.
    Q. Clinical psychologists tend to make assessments of their patients, don’t they?
    A. They tend to, yes.
    Q. Robin Bain was not your patient ,was he?
    A. No. he wasn’t.
    Q. You never made a proper clinical assessment of him,did you?
    A. In that sense, no.

    Enough said.!

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  169. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Watching people deteriorate mentally on Kiwiblog is really quite sad.

    Then they develop a god complex and then they make about 4772 comments in 11 months

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  170. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    Don’t feel sad PEB, keep up the good work.

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  171. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Judith posted at 9.20:

    …yet another person that defines the whole world, and every person based on their opinion of that…

    I don’t understand what that statement purports to mean, Judith. Are you saying everyone who doesn’t agree with you is wrong, or that everyone who doesn’t accept oral history is as authorative as written history is wrong?

    AND

    …written word can be found that far back, but it was only by ‘few’ and certainly not the majority

    Yes, but the written languages were usually for official purposes, and their strength lies in what is written in them surviving unchanged.

    You also say oral cultures like Maori also have other evidence than oral. Place names is the only one I can think of apart from DNA (which traces Maori ancestry back to the aboriginal people of Taiwan). In place names such as the Picts, however, there is outside written historical evidence (such as in the Picts’ case, the Romans, the Vikings, the Anglo-Saxons) of the use of those names because outsiders who had written languages recorded them in writing. There is no equivalent for Maori before the arrival of Westerners.

    Also, in using the Picts for comparison, be careful in claiming they had oral tradition. They may well have had a written language of their own which died out with their culture.. The Picts left artefacts with mysterious, rune-like symbols on them. This is like undeciphered written material.

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  172. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ pauleastbay

    Another person that needs to grow up.
    You men are amazing – your whole life, and how you define people is based on the Bain case. What very shallow pathetic little lives you must have. Tell me, do you ask the person you buy your groceries from what their opinion on the Bain case is, before you decide whether you will pay them or not? What about your mail delivery person, have you checked with them, before you’ll accept your mail?

    None of you can have a conversation without resorting to the same tired old bullying tactics. You really are a pathetic pack of wankers, (and that is not based on your opinion of the Bain case, but on your very immature behaviour).

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  173. muggins (2,899 comments) says:

    Judith,
    Are you trying to get me to bite? If so you have succeeded.
    Of course David Bain isn’t innocent, he is as guilty as sin.
    How do you think a lens from those glasses he was wearing came to be in his brother Stephen’s room?
    How do you think he got those three bruises on his face that the doctor who examined him at around 11.30am on the Monday said were between 7 to 13 hours old?
    How do you think he got those bruises on his torso?
    How do you think he got his brother’s blood on his clothes?
    Why did he wait twenty mionutes before phoning the emergency services?
    If he put the washing on when he got home as he said, why wasn’t the machine running when the police arrived when he himself said the washing machine cycle took between 45 minutes and an hour?
    Why did he insist that Laniet be home on that Sunday night?
    Do you really believe that it was animal blood from the summer under his fingerprints on the rifle as he told Justice Binnie?
    Do you really believe that his father changed into those tatty clothes he was wearing to meet his maker?
    Do you really believe David Bain did not notice that some of the clothes he put in the wash had blood on them. I mean he could see pretty well in poor light. He said he read a book for about half an hour when he went to bed,yet Joe Karam writes in Trial by Ambush that the lighting in his room was so poor that a police officer pulled the light cord because he thought the light was off only to find that is was, in fact ,on.
    Do you really believe that his sister Laniet was dead when he heard her gurgling?
    Do you really believe Robin Bain would have phoned that education board official on the Friday prior to his death and set up an appointment to see her on the Monday morning if he was going to commit suicide that same morning?
    Do you really believe Robin Bain would have typed a message on the computer when he could have hand-written one?
    Do you really think that Robin Bain would have worn David’s gloves when he had his own gloves?
    Do you really think that the right-handed Robin Bain would have committed suicide by shooting himself in the left temple using a rifle with a silencer attached while standing with one foot on a chair?
    Do you really think Robin Bain would have placed that magazine upright on the floor when he could have simply dropped it?
    Do you really think Robin Bain would have gone out and picked up the paper after killing four members of his family and before committing suicide?

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  174. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Psychology 101
    If you start with a cage containing five monkeys and inside the cage, hang a banana on a string from the top and then you place a set of stairs under the banana, before long a monkey will go to the stairs and climb toward the banana.
    As soon as he touches the stairs, you spray all the other monkeys with cold water.
    After a while another monkey makes an attempt with same result … all the other monkeys are sprayed with cold water. Pretty soon when another monkey tries to climb the stairs, the other monkeys will try to prevent it. Now, put the cold water away.
    Remove one monkey from the cage and replace it with a new one.
    The new monkey sees the banana and attempts to climb the stairs. To his shock, all of the other monkeys beat the crap out of him. After another attempt and attack, he knows that if he tries to climb the stairs he will be assaulted.
    Next, remove another of the original five monkeys, replacing it with a new one. The newcomer goes to the stairs and is attacked. The previous newcomer takes part in the punishment…… with enthusiasm.
    Then, replace a third original monkey with a new one, followed by the fourth, then the fifth. Every time the newest monkey takes to the stairs he is attacked. Now, the monkeys that are beating him up have no idea why they were not permitted to climb the stairs.
    Neither do they know why they are participating in the beating of the newest monkey. Finally, having replaced all of the original monkeys, none of the remaining monkeys will have ever been sprayed with cold water. Nevertheless, not one of the monkeys will try to climb the stairway for the banana.
    Why, you ask? Because in their minds…that is the way it has always been! This, my friends, is how Government operates… and this is why, from time to time:
    ALL of the monkeys need to be REPLACED AT THE SAME TIME.

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  175. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    This is like undeciphered written material.

    More glyphs?.

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  176. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    My goodness Judith has called Paul a ‘pack of wankers.’ He’s obviously very busy, with himself.

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  177. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Jack5 (3,752 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 9:49 pm

    Maori have symbols, e.g. tattoos, carvings, all of which have meaning associated with them. Many cultures have similar.

    We were discussing the naming of New Zealand and you resorted to dragging up the ‘Bain’ thing.

    I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me on any subject, but I do have a problem with bullies. Especially this lot on here that cannot allow a discussion on any subject without resorting to the same old tired thing.

    What I think of the Bain case has absolutely nothing to do with the topic we were discussing. Neither does my opinion of NZ First (which isn’t very high).

    There are a number of people on here who don’t agree with my stance on Bain, but of whom I can discuss a variety of issues, and they have the maturity to take each subject on its own merit, except for about five, who seem to think that the whole word is defined by it. I think it’s pathetic, and there is no way in this world I’ll be bullied off here by them, or you, should you decide to play the same games.

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  178. SPC (4,624 comments) says:

    Coober Pedy, a 233B barrel find of shale oil.

    Over 10% of the world’s reserves in a new field in South Australia.

    So large, it is of geo-political significance.

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  179. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Stephieboy at 9.45:

    Another Bainiac!

    I’m not interested in David Bain, but am interested from the piece you quote, that you seem to be agreeing with the lawyer asking the question, that only clinical psychologists are entitled to an opinion on whether someone is depressed or not.

    Stephieboy, your conclusion, “enough said,” seems to indicate you are a fully certifiable Bainiac.

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  180. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Judith, re your 9.57:

    You don’t sound to be the sort of person who could be bullied, Judith.

    Lighten up! It’s nearly Christmas.

    Judith, you are grasping at straws comparing moko and pole carvings with a written language when it comes to recording history, however.

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  181. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    So large, it is of geo-political significance.

    Bye bye offshore drilling.

    Depth to oil/gas window 700 m

    http://www.pir.sa.gov.au/petroleum/prospectivity/basin_and_province_information/prospectivity_arckaringa

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  182. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Jack 5 .
    A court would give grater weight don’t you think on the opinion of a Forensics Pathologist as to the criminal sigificance of say a cut on a neck vertebrae than an opinion of a GP.?

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  183. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    a pack of wankers

    I know I spend most week nights alone in motels but I must decline the honour of ” a pack of wankers” – lets keep it singular or I’ll get a big head

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  184. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Jack5 (3,754 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 10:01 pm

    That it is – and I’m looking forward to the celebrations – although my bank balance is starting to feel the ‘pain’ a little.

    I’m actually in a good mood. I don’t get intimidated – I just get ‘lippy’ – people don’t get me down easily. This is the internet, you could be the Queen or Prince Philip for all I know – I like the mystique of not knowing who people are – if people start taking blogs like this seriously, someone should cut the cable!

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  185. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    PEB.

    Why not try for the top. It’s a pretty big task to fulfil, but it could be worth a go.

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  186. Rowan (1,728 comments) says:

    Do you ever think that Muggins will ever post anything truthful on the Bain case on KB.

    Ever, I challenge anyone to find anything here that is not a blatant misrepresentation or a downright lie.
    I have to ask myself, why? Why is it so important to him to try to prevent the truth of the matter being revealed. Its obvious that the lies are intentional with the purpose of misleading any reader,.
    Its very sad that someone would go to these lengths.

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  187. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ cha (3,058 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 10:06 pm

    I don’t quite understand the whole oil thing Cha, but does that mean they didn’t find oil ?

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  188. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Stephieboy ( 10.06): First, I agree with on your example of a pathologist versus a GP.

    Without wishing to take sides in the Bain case (I’m just fascinated by the fervour of his supporters and jury members being at the celebratory pissup at the end of his second trial), I think any person can have a useful opinion of whether someone is acting depressed enough to be likely to commit suicide.

    Second, I think the country itself is in a state of depression if it wants to spend so much public energy relitigating trial after trial.

    Of perhaps it all has something to do with the mass abandonment of Christianity for secularism, and the need to have something to replace the perpetual splits and feuds and interpretation debates typical of religions. Something was needed to fill the gap. We got St David.

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  189. SPC (4,624 comments) says:

    http://oilandenergyinvestor.com/ext/arckaringa/articles/20-million-oil-find-to-unleash-energy-war.php?src=taboola&ad=ad7

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  190. Rowan (1,728 comments) says:

    There is plenty of evidence that Robin was depressed, and losing it, whether or not he was on medication or not is irrelevant, in addition to Cyril Wilden, there was Marlin Stone, Keven McKenzie, Joan Withers and a number of others that testified at the trial about his behaviour in the lead up to the event, but I suppose they all conspired together to present false evidence in court as the conspiracy theorists here like Stephie and Aunt Fanny would have you believe.

    Clearly Stephie ‘knew’ Robin well enough that he ‘knows’ Robin was not on medication, but again no proof!

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  191. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Judith posted at 10.06:

    …you could be the Queen or Prince Philip for all I know..

    Yep, just a bit bored here at Windsor, and Liz out walking the friggin’ Corgi’s.

    Would you like a damehood, Judith, or are you in republican Australia?

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  192. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    An estimated 233 billion barrels at 700 metres could well make offshore ventures uneconomic Judith.

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  193. SPC (4,624 comments) says:

    http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-09-25/linc-energy-in-shale-talks-with-oil-services-company-in-u-s-1-.html

    http://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/Australia-Next-Petro-Superstate.html

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  194. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Cha:

    We should have pushed to become a state of Australia instead of this NZ-diplomat-led-head-up-arse charge to become a trading vassal of China.

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  195. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ Jack5 (3,756 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 10:18 pm

    I’ve been called a ‘dame’ by many, but no, I’m quite happy just to be me. I’m a fourth generation NZer, of mainly Scottish and English decent – not a drop of Ozzie!

    So if Liz is walking the corgis you must be Prince Philip – I have to say I have a soft spot for the Prince – he’s a gutsy bloke – I like his style.

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  196. cha (3,527 comments) says:

    You’re talking to a federalist Jack.

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  197. Judith (5,660 comments) says:

    @ cha (3,059 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 10:19 pm
    An estimated 233 billion barrels at 700 metres could well make offshore ventures uneconomic Judith.

    I was just reading that link. That is a massive find, and has the potential to really upset a few people.
    I guess there would have to be significant amounts offshore to make it even worth investigating now.

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  198. Jack5 (4,216 comments) says:

    Well Judith, good night. I can hear Liz chasing the little yappers back through the halls.

    By the way, we’re all Krauts in this household.

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  199. Rowan (1,728 comments) says:

    Muggins
    A very simple yes/no question for you. I only need a one word answer so don’t want to hear any of the repeatedly spun lies and unsubstainiated bullshit.
    Yes or no Muggins:
    Have you ever convinced anyone ever based on any of your arguments to change their opinion of the Bain case from innocent to guilty?
    I’m sure it would be very easy to change ones opinion the other way, just read enough of your ramblings, similarly for me reading the psychological bullshit written by James McNeish on the Bain case reinforced to me that he was way out of his depth on this one, much like you.
    Remember Muggy I am only looking for a one word answer.

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  200. stephieboy (1,118 comments) says:

    Rowan (1,281 comments) says:
    December 12th, 2013 at 10:18 pm
    And you knew both and Robin and David very well.?
    Yes,?
    The point is that a claim was made that Robin Bain was both depressed and on medication.
    That is not the truth and there is no suggestion of a conspiracy.
    Are Marlin Stone and Kevin Mc Kenzie trained Doctors or Clinical Psychologists .?
    I suspect not and are merely like you and me lay people giving an opinion on Robin’s state of mind. People who very likely did not know him very well at all.
    BTW registered Psychologist Ingrid Dunckley for the MOE in Dunedin who supervised and was in close contact with Robin ddi not think he was either depressed ,deranged or mentally unstable .

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  201. thedavincimode (6,102 comments) says:

    kowtow

    It has nothing to do with religion. The issue is your gob-smacking hypocrisy in your attempted use of a veneer of Christianity to conceal the prejudice and hatred that lies within. It’s almost as if you think that your ritualistic snivelling is like an auto-extended bus pass that will see you through the pearly gates. Whereas in reality, your Christ and your G** (were they to exist) couldn’t help but to see you for the disgusting little cunt that you are.

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  202. Viking2 (10,702 comments) says:

    Are many like me, tired of hearing the whining of Bernie Monk and the Pike mine. Seems Bernie does well from this.
    Like Meturi he has a flash wardrobe. Don’t think I have seen him in the same suit twice.
    someone is feeding lots of cash.

    Meanwhile the Mine Manager of 59 days suffers.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/industries/9511909/Whittall-unwanted-post-Pike

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  203. Manolo (12,617 comments) says:

    I agree, Viking. I’m already sick of Labour’s Monk & co.

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  204. Longknives (4,039 comments) says:

    Muggins 9:53pm

    “How do you think a lens from those glasses he was wearing came to be in his brother Stephen’s room?
    How do you think he got those three bruises on his face that the doctor who examined him at around 11.30am on the Monday said were between 7 to 13 hours old?
    How do you think he got those bruises on his torso?
    How do you think he got his brother’s blood on his clothes?
    Why did he wait twenty mionutes before phoning the emergency services?
    If he put the washing on when he got home as he said, why wasn’t the machine running when the police arrived when he himself said the washing machine cycle took between 45 minutes and an hour?
    Why did he insist that Laniet be home on that Sunday night?
    Do you really believe that it was animal blood from the summer under his fingerprints on the rifle as he told Justice Binnie?
    Do you really believe that his father changed into those tatty clothes he was wearing to meet his maker?
    Do you really believe David Bain did not notice that some of the clothes he put in the wash had blood on them. I mean he could see pretty well in poor light. He said he read a book for about half an hour when he went to bed,yet Joe Karam writes in Trial by Ambush that the lighting in his room was so poor that a police officer pulled the light cord because he thought the light was off only to find that is was, in fact ,on.
    Do you really believe that his sister Laniet was dead when he heard her gurgling?
    Do you really believe Robin Bain would have phoned that education board official on the Friday prior to his death and set up an appointment to see her on the Monday morning if he was going to commit suicide that same morning?
    Do you really believe Robin Bain would have typed a message on the computer when he could have hand-written one?
    Do you really think that Robin Bain would have worn David’s gloves when he had his own gloves?
    Do you really think that the right-handed Robin Bain would have committed suicide by shooting himself in the left temple using a rifle with a silencer attached while standing with one foot on a chair?
    Do you really think Robin Bain would have placed that magazine upright on the floor when he could have simply dropped it?
    Do you really think Robin Bain would have gone out and picked up the paper after killing four members of his family and before committing suicide?”

    Bloody legend mate!
    And how do the Bain supporters respond? With the usual pathetic torrent of abuse and name calling…
    They really have got nothing…

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  205. Rowan (1,728 comments) says:

    Rightto Longknives
    All this idiot has is downright lies, if I was to point out all the factual errors and misrepresentations in the above, there would probably be over one per line. It is actually you who is the one with nothing.

    Stephie
    Whether or not he was on medication or not is neither here nor there, the point was there is clear evidence he was depressed and losing it, like it or not. Whats the bet either yourself or Aunt Fanny will come back and just deny that?
    Thats all you have denial

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  206. Nostalgia-NZ (4,684 comments) says:

    Bloody legend all right LK, Just as you always avoiding making comment apart from false generalities aunt fanny asks hosts of stupid questions. But there is in fact one area in which she is legendary, the only person involved in having three companies and 2 individuals successfully sued and who walked away having been part of the reason they were sued – of course that may change.

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