General Debate 29 December 2013

December 29th, 2013 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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117 Responses to “General Debate 29 December 2013”

  1. Pete George (21,811 comments) says:

    Martyn Bradbury has signalled that he may copy Reditt who “banned climate deniers on their site”. This was in response to someone making reasonable points and asking legitimate questions about climate science.

    Banning opinions he doesn’t agree with is par for the course at The Daily Blog – Bombing climate change debate

    Like the weather climate science will never remain settled, it’s far to complex and will continue to be affected by major natural factors along with debatable human effects.

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  2. RF (1,129 comments) says:

    The German tourists have been discharged from hospital suffering from horrific injuries inflicted by cowardly scum. Our gutless media have ignored the elephant in the room and will not identify the race that these savages belong to.

    Its time to name and shame. Where were the parents of these mutants when they were attacking the tourists.

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  3. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    Listened to a bit of Chris Laidlaw’s replacement, Wallace Chapman this morning. Nice enough guy, but with a ponderous, laboured delivery and the interviewing skills of a banana.

    Whoever appointed him should be sacked.

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  4. Pete George (21,811 comments) says:

    I’m not sure why the race of the accused is important, they acted as a small group of individuals, but presuming they are New Zealanders then we can presume there’s a high chance they are mixed race.

    Trying to make it into a race issue won’t address the underlying causes of a significant violence culture that has existed across virtually all of the human race for a long long time.

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  5. Linda Reid (385 comments) says:

    I have been thinking about the CIR and waste of money the referendum was, and I wonder if organisers had to collect $5 or $10 for each signature and contribute it to the cost of the referendum, if that would mean the CIR would actually mean something. You know, the whole putting your money where your mouth is.

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  6. duggledog (1,111 comments) says:

    I don’t look at or post on ‘Bomber’s’ low rent site, but if I did I would consider being banned from it a badge of honour. Nothing the guy has to say has any relevance to anybody with a shred of common sense.

    The entire left side of politics is currently treading water. They don’t understand that NZ Inc 2013 – 2014 is one of the most envied and admired countries in the world. How anyone could think somebody with no real life experience save tapping away in the dark and plotting with their sad friends could have any real answers on how to ‘make it better’ is utterly beyond me.

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  7. Pete George (21,811 comments) says:

    Talking of admiring what seems to be working here:

    Experts predict prosperous 2014 for New Zealand

    Financial experts are united – next year could be a golden one for the New Zealand economy with all signs pointing to a prosperous 2014.

    Commodity prices are booming, businesses are at their most confident in 20 years, the economy is among the world’s fastest growing, jobs and wages are predicted to rise and that confidence is filtering through to consumers who are starting to open their wallets.

    New Zealand’s GDP growth was at its highest in four years in the last quarter at 3.5% on the previous year – higher than Australia (2.3%), the US (1.8), Britain (1.5) and Japan at 2.4%.

    http://tvnz.co.nz/business-news/experts-predict-prosperous-2014-new-zealand-5787665

    That’s due to sound Government management of the economy – albeit with some massive debt that now needs addressing – and successful agricultural business.

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  8. duggledog (1,111 comments) says:

    Scott Chris, Wallace was recently surprised to learn, whilst interviewing someone I can’t remember on Radio Live, that the US had the most powerful military in the world.

    His appointment to RNZ Sunday mornings speaks volumes about the organisation. He’s a total left footer, which you would know if you’ve ever tuned into his old slot. It was nothing but a platform to discuss issues attacking the government or the establishment or the average kiwi, almost without exception, from the viewpoint of people like Helen Kelly.

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  9. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    Like the weather climate science will never remain settled, it’s far to complex and will continue to be affected by major natural factors along with debatable human effects.

    Oh get off the fence Pete. The physical science is clear in that scientists know how much energy is being added to the earth’s surface due to the increase in greenhouse gases through established theory and laboratory verification.

    What they don’t know yet is how and where and when the atmosphere and ocean redistribute that extra energy.

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  10. duggledog (1,111 comments) says:

    RF the race of the attackers is not something a journalist would necessarily include in any updates, and there’s no real reason why it should be part of the story.

    As soon as they read the headline, 90% of readers would have guessed there’s a 90% chance the offenders would be Maori. Kind of fits a well established pattern by now.

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  11. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    For KB’s resident feminist:
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303997604579240022857012920

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  12. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    Here’e an example of the MSM climate change alarmism/lie.The title screams climate change while the article itself makes quite clear the true cause of the problem……coastal erosion.

    A reference to rising seas and increased storms is there but where’s the evidence.?

    To question that one is placed in the same category as a Holocaust “denier”……more newspeak and attempts at mind control.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2013/12/climate-change-threatens-ghana-coast-2013129114224783683.html

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  13. Pete George (21,811 comments) says:

    Scott Chris – remaining open about the science is not fence sitting. Virtually all science remains unfinished business.

    They may know approximately how much stored energy is being released by humans, and they may know approximately how much more energy is not released from Earth’s atmosphere due to increased greenhouse effects.

    But scientists have no way of knowing what solar fluctuations we will have in the future, they will not know how much natural release of stored energy we have above or below current levels, and they cannot know the overall effect.

    They can’t be sure if we can change much by reducing any human effects.

    And it’s very difficult to weigh up the beneficial and adverse effects of any climate change, whether it is warming or cooling.

    The only certainty about climate is it’s unpredictability. It’s a science with long term effects that must be continually measured and reassessed.

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  14. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    The physical science is clear in that scientists know how much energy is being added to the earth’s surface due to the increase in greenhouse gases

    Laughably wrong.

    There many powerful and complex feedback mechanisms, which are understood in only the vaguest terms (along with those which have not yet been discovered), but which are clearly negative.

    Hence it is no surprise to the sceptics that the promised global warming never occurred and that the alarmist theory was thus disproven.

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  15. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    There many powerful and complex feedback mechanisms, which are understood in only the vaguest terms (along with those which have not yet been discovered), but which are clearly negative.

    Such as?

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  16. Pete George (21,811 comments) says:

    Coastal erosion is a danger but it always has been since sea levels started rising since the last ice age ended. I saw a good example covered by Time team recently .

    In June 2011, Time Team visited Dunwich on the Suffolk coast, now a sleepy village but once a thriving medieval port and even the capital of East Anglia. Suffolks coast, consisting of some of the UKs youngest and softest rock and battered by North Sea winds, is particularly vulnerable to erosion. Over the centuries, coastal erosion and the silting up of the harbour have had a detrimental effect on Dunwich’s economy, leading to a dramatic decline in its fortunes.

    Much of Dunwich’s medieval past has been lost to the sea.

    And:

    The main process was coastal erosion. Erosion of the coast line had been going on ever since Suffolk became separated from the Netherlands. For the last two thousand years the coast line at Dunwich has receded on average one metre a year. In other words the sea shore is now two kilometres west of its position in Roman times.

    For a decade or two you may not notice much change, though it is likely that higher tides will tend to weaken the lower section of the cliff face. Then a major storm will take away several metres of cliff at once. Two or three major storms will remove a couple of streets, associated housing, and perhaps a church.

    In the museum in today’s Dunwich there is a magnificent model of the medieval town, as it might have appeared from the air in the twelfth century. Many houses are teetering on the edge of the cliff. With the benefit of hindsight we know they will not be there much longer. Much of the town is contained between the twelfth century shoreline and a line on the model representing where the cliffs were in the sixteenth century. The rest of the town would fall into the sea over the next couple of centuries.

    That has been happening long before significant human emissions.

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  17. Pete George (21,811 comments) says:

    Hence it is no surprise to the sceptics that the promised global warming never occurred and that the alarmist theory was thus disproven.

    That’s bull. Nothing has been promised, and nothing has been disproven. We won’t know if the current predictions for 2050 and 2100 are accurate or not. All we can know for sure is the predictions will continue to be re-evaluated and changed as more scientific research is done and more of the probable effects are understood.

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  18. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    Virtually all science remains unfinished business.

    Yes but there’s a point at which facts become reasonably certain, such as the fact that man walked on the moon.

    Hedging your bets (disingenuously) is best left to the likes of Colin Craig and Peter Dunne….. Oh I see. Silly me.

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  19. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Scott,

    Such as rainfall, cloud cover and other mechanical processes, which utterly dwarf the beyond-trivial effect of an increase in a trace greenhouse gas.

    A good presentation of some of this stuff.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVCps_SwD5w

    Pete George,

    That’s bull. Nothing has been promised

    I think you’ll find that alarming global warming was promised.

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  20. Chicken Little (793 comments) says:

    Lol – Easy to see who the REAL deniers are these days. Too funny.

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  21. Peter (1,468 comments) says:

    The climate alarmists were wrong. “It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are. If it doesn’t agree with experiment, it’s wrong”. Their alarmist predictions were wrong. We skeptics were right – the science is not settled and it remains unclear how much effect man made c02 has on global temperature.

    The fact the intellectual giant Bradbury is a member of the alarmist club is in no way surprising.

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  22. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    If a man had shot his wife would he be just charged with common assault and allowed out on bail?

    http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbcri/100349250-mother-of-dead-teen-accused-of-shooting-husband

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  23. Pete George (21,811 comments) says:

    Yes but there’s a point at which facts become reasonably certain, such as the fact that man walked on the moon.

    The fact that man walked on the moon isn’t science. It’s something that is recorded as having occurred.

    An apple falling from a tree can also be observed, but it does nothing to prove what the force of gravity is.

    A lump of ice breaking off an Antarctic ice shelf can be observed but it does nothing to prove any climate science.

    You were right about one thing.

    Silly me.

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  24. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    Such as rainfall, cloud cover and other mechanical processes, which utterly dwarf the beyond-trivial effect of an increase in a trace greenhouse gas.

    Wat – you couldn’t be vaguer if you tried. And your discounting of the known feedback effect of trace CO2 exemplifies your lack of understanding in this subject.

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  25. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    It’s something that is recorded as having occurred.

    Yes, it’s an empirical fact Pete. Quite a lot of those in science. Apart from which, my reference to the moon landing was a metaphorical analogy not a direct comparison.

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  26. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Scott,

    And your discounting of the known feedback effect of trace CO2 exemplifies your lack of understanding in this subject.

    It is precisely these alleged feedback effects which are at the root of the alarmism. Yet these feedbacks exist only in alarmist computer models, they have never been observed in reality.

    And indeed, the fingerprints of anthropogenic warming – enhanced warming at the poles and in the troposphere – are notable by their complete absence. In other words, those alleged feedback effects do not exist. The alarmist theory is complete bunk.

    Hence it was no surprise to sceptics that the promised warming never happened.

    Perhaps you should watch that video I linked to. You might get a clue.

    You can fast-forward to about the 17 minute mark, where the energy budget is discussed.

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  27. RF (1,129 comments) says:

    Pete George. 8.09am. The identity of the race is important to me as an individual and the non disclosure is confirmation that unfortunately our media is very selective with what they report. The attack was just one of many that is only too common these days and it concerns me that we just roll over and do nothing. Little shits such as these should be taken out of our society.

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  28. duggledog (1,111 comments) says:

    ‘Seven Sharp’ on TV One received the most complaints out of 68 dealt with by the Broadcasting Standards Authority in 2013. On its own that’s appalling but whatever. It’s a shit programme.

    Out of 13 for the programme, five complaints were for Seven Sharp’s childish attack on Colin Craig.

    Now to me, statistically, that appears to be quite interesting. That five different individuals would want to defend Colin possibly means he has indeed made an impact in middle NZ.

    Then again it could have just been party members!

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  29. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    “The identity of the race is important to me”

    Why

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  30. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    It is precisely these alleged feedback effects which are at the root of the alarmism.

    I disagree. The root of the alarmism is in attempted risk management and has backfired somewhat.

    Alas for Al Gore and co, herding humans is more like trying to herd cats than sheep.

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  31. duggledog (1,111 comments) says:

    RF those ‘little shits’ were probably 5’11″ and twelve stone.

    They will most likely be taken out of our society eventually (two were juveniles) but not for many years. In the meantime they will each cause plenty of damage to people’s lives. There’s practically nothing to stop them.

    Aside from CYF and a family group conference!

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  32. calendar girl (1,108 comments) says:

    “The only certainty about climate is it’s (sic) unpredictability. It’s a science with long term effects that must be continually measured and reassessed.”

    That’s fair enough as a general statement – but only if the lefties and the World Government enthusiasts move away from their plans to tax everything is sight (using climate change as the excuse) and forcibly redistribute wealth stolen from developed countries to “have-not” nations.

    I’m tired of the deception of climate change alarmism with a socialist hidden agenda.

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  33. lolitasbrother (346 comments) says:

    The Standard
    I have never seen such emotional and verbal violence on a blog site than that of Lynn Prentice. I despise him. He makes Bradbury look like a liberal in disguise. Just joking, Bradbury has the highest rate of censorship per response received.
    His capacity for abuse and censorship is endless and frightening . The Standard is a very dirty blog , and you should only go there if you are feeling brave, and even tempered.

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  34. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Scott,

    It is a fact that alleged (but actually non-existant) runaway positive feedback mechanisms underpin the whole global warming alarmism. Without these, even the most blinkered alarmist is left with nothing, since the direct effects of increasing CO2 are trivial and probably beneficial.

    Those feedbacks don’t exist in reality. They only exist in the computer models.

    Hence it is no surprise that the promised global warming never happened.

    You are your fellow travellers are in the absurd position of defending a theory which has been completely refuted by facts.

    So again I invite you to get a clue. You asked me for more information and I provided a link to a pretty detailed presentation. Yet, without even looking at it, you simply came back saying I ‘couldn’t be more vague if I tried.’ Such intellectual dishonesty, wilful ignorance and denial are your defining qualities I’m afraid.

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  35. Scott Chris (5,678 comments) says:

    Duggledog, re left bias in the media, yes it is quite prevalent but I see it as a kind of balance to the influence the business community has so it doesn’t really worry me.

    And I don’t really care if any particular journalist is left or right leaning (such as Kathryn Ryan or Sean Plunket) as long as they are good at what they do which both Ryan and Plunket are.

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  36. OneTrack (1,967 comments) says:

    Pete – “Banning opinions he doesn’t agree with is par for the course at The Daily Blog”

    Banning opinions they dont agree with is par for the course for left-wingers generally. Instead of religion, they have their own holy cant which cannot be debated. The Standard is a more extreme example.

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  37. Maggy Wassilieff (180 comments) says:

    Cruel people..you have forced me to read through that 2014 prediction posting on the Daily Blog. Now I know I am blighted by my fabulous free schooling in pre-NCEA days and learnt one or two things about Formal English, but I have adapted.
    I can now cope with misspellings, incorrect use of its and it’s, and even lack of punctuation at times. However, rambling, adjective-loaded clauses that fail to link with the subject of a sentence exhaust me. I find it incredible that some of you folks have been able to decipher meaning from Bradbury’s long-winded confusions.

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  38. RF (1,129 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird. 9.52am. These pricks are too close to home. I am a great believer in know thy enemy plus name and shame.

    duggledog. 9.54am. So do we just sit around saying tut tut tut. Poor misguided lads. This type of person should be locked up so they never crap in daylight again.

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  39. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    RF, The question was “The identity of the race is important to me”.

    Are you suggest shaming a race because or the action of some of that race?

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  40. dime (8,752 comments) says:

    The most anticipated fight in mma history happens this afternoon.

    The greatest martial artist of all time lost his belt a few months ago. The rematch happens today.

    Today we find out if the first fight was a fluke. Maybe age has caught up with the greatest…

    Dime encourages you all to buy it! Unless you’re pg, he should get to knitting class with the rest of the bitches :)

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  41. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    Chuck wrote: “Are you suggest shaming a race because or the action of some of that race?”

    I guess so. After all, some people shame men because of the action of some men… If it works for one segment of society, why not apply it to another.

    After all, it would be responsible to warn tourists about the dangers of risky behavior, such as tenting near public parks in small towns where local hoodies like to hang out. If it’s good enough for the police to post notices telling people not to encourage crime, then it should be good enough to warn tourists (in multiple languages) not to encourage crime.

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  42. RF (1,129 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird. 10.34am. Short answer. Yes … on the understanding that they be treated with caution until they prove that they are law abiding. If it walks like a duck sounds like a duck etc…its a duck.. . Would you walk up to a pack of wild dogs to pat one if you knew that some had recently attacked people.

    I believe Odakyu – Sen has summed it up.

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  43. kowtow (6,706 comments) says:

    PG says

    “The only certainty about climate is it’s unpredictability”.

    Oh well there goes the seasons then…..

    FFS!

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  44. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Experts predict prosperous 2014 for New Zealand

    Financial experts are united – next year could be a golden one for the New Zealand economy with all signs pointing to a prosperous 2014.

    What’s the bet these are the same “experts” who failed to foresee the 2007 sub-prime calamity. Sadly for them and us, another is on the way and it’s going to hit overseas sometime in 2014 I predict in Q1 or Q2. The only reason stocks are doing well in the US is because with interest rates at zero there is no point in keeping cash deposits so it’s all gone into stocks. Plus the only reason corporates are making profits is because the only game in US corporate town at the moment are share buybacks and other balance sheet manoeuvres, they are not investing in plant and other capital projects.

    Plus the QE they have engaged in has so weakened the USD the BRICS and other countries are now requiring payment in things other than the USD, thus weakening its ability to continue to stand in the market as the world reserve currency, and that status adds an estimated 20% to its value.

    So when the market crashes as it will, because there are no fundamentals supporting it, there are no tools left with which to recover and the smart money (i.e. those who did predict 2007) is saying it will be worse than 1929 because of the debt we are all carrying which was nothing like it was in 1929.

    The only good news for us is that when it does crash, commodities are expected to be where the money is switched to, although with no-one having spare readies to purchase the outputs, how long they will remain a good investment is anyone’s guess.

    But all of that will precipitate geopolitical instability and remember what I’ve been saying: the next war will start with nukes it won’t end with them. By 2020 you won’t recognise the world, it will be a very different place.

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  45. wf (317 comments) says:

    Hey Dime, what’s mma?

    Can I watch it while I knit?

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  46. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    Three of the four arrested are from Opotiki the 4th from Whakatane.

    The name suppression will lapse, I believe their initial appearance will have been before a J.P or Community Magistrate and suppression is 99.9% given until they appear before a Judge.

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  47. Pauleastbay (5,030 comments) says:

    These pricks are too close to home. I am a great believer in know thy enemy plus name and shame.

    Rf

    If you could get your hand off it for 5 minutes. Knowing their name will do what for you. I will know these arse holes but so what? What “shame” will be added by their names getting out there. You are dealing with people who don’t have shame .

    Yes all 4 will be maori’s , do my wife and kids have to bear some guilt because they are from the town where 3 of them live ? Stop being a tosser. If you feel so strongly about, stand in The Strand and warn all the tourists about the “horis’

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  48. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Something for those who still hallucinate it’s Morning in America. Powell’s former Chief of Staff tells it like it is.

    http://21stcenturywire.com/2013/12/28/the-reality-behind-the-us-foreign-policy-and-its-military/

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  49. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    A Kapiti Coast school is surveying parents about plans for classroom wi-fi after a young pupil died from brain cancer.

    The parents of Ethan Wyman, who died 11 months after being diagnosed with two brain tumours, want wi-fi removed from classrooms at Te Horo School.

    The board of trustees has now sent out a survey to all parents, after the Wymans expressed fears that the radiation effect of wi-fi could be linked to cancer.

    But the Ministry of Education, which has been at community meetings held by the school alongside the Ministry of Health, says research shows wi-fi is safe.
    Damon Wyman, who still has two children at the school, says Ethan was diagnosed with the tumours three months after he was given a wi-fi-connected iPod.

    His parents later discovered he had been falling asleep with it under his pillow. Even though it was on standby, it was still emitting bursts of radiation as it tried to connect to the router, Mr Wyman said.
    http://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/news/kapiti/9533808/Parents-of-boy-with-tumour-want-wi-fi-out-of-school

    Is the report on “wi-fi safety and schools” in the same place as the “NZ provision for deep-sea drilling mishaps”?

    PS – Does an iPod which is automatically ‘powered-off’, still continually scan a wi-fi connection?

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  50. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    The identity of the race is important to me as an individual and the non disclosure is confirmation that unfortunately our media is very selective with what they report.

    What is interesting, is that in America, black people have been attacking whites in what they refer to as “the knockout game”, where the aim is to knock out a white person with one punch. There has been much silence around this until – you guessed it – the first person to be charged playing the “game” is a white person who knocked out a black person. This is after dozens of black-on-white attacks provoked no response from authorities.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/dec/26/federal-authorities-charge-white-knockout-suspect-/#ixzz2obSILwX2

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  51. OneTrack (1,967 comments) says:

    Scott – “Alas for Al Gore and co, herding humans is more like trying to herd cats than sheep.”

    So Al Gore and co think we are sheep? Explains a lot.

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  52. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    99% chance the thugs are Maori, although their whanau will claim they are the usual “good kids”.

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  53. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    RF, Do you accept that homosexuals offend disproportionately against underage adolescents? If this was accepted there would there would be a few less victims. If seems hypocritical that many of the libertarians on this blog call anyone who points out bad statistics about homosexuals but ignore racism spouted by anonymous bloggers who are ashamed of there views that is why they will not use there own names. I suspect some of the libertarians who are so concerned about matters homosexual would be openly anti Maori and not just turn a blind eye to anti Maori racism.

    It is a fact that Maori are overrepresented in crime statistics by a factor of about three. Can you explain what positive benefit will be achieved by the media giving the race of the accused? I can think of some negative consequences. For example making it harder for Maori who are not criminals to get employment or accommodation.

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  54. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    AGW responsible for this too: http://www.climatedepot.com/2013/12/27/2013-shatters-the-record-for-fewest-tornadoes-15-lower-than-previous-record/

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  55. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    I have never seen such emotional and verbal violence on a blog site than that of Lynn Prentice.

    Be proud of having been censored by the rainbow-delicate Lynn, a member of GLAAD:
    http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/12/life_on_glaads_blacklist.html

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  56. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    Who would be dumb enough not to give someone a job because of their race? Good workers are very hard to find; in fact, we have to import a lot of them as they are so scare in this country.

    It’s the colour of their attitude that I’m concerned about; not the colour of their skin. (Attitude to outsiders who stray on to “their turf.” Attitude towards anyone who makes eye contact with them. Attitude to anyone who objects to their behavior. Attitude towards anyone who fails to obey their rules.)

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  57. wikiriwhis business (3,286 comments) says:

    ‘The most anticipated fight in mma history happens this afternoon.’

    If you talking Ronda Rousy, she’s just not fighting in Strike Force, Man, she IS Strike Force.

    My mind was blown wide open when she described how no one wanted to know her in the gym when she first turned pro in MMA. She’s a fourth dan black belt judoka with an olympic medal record of Bronze and Silver.

    The list of her career CV is enormous. She’s won everything she’s ever fought in. These geeks in the gym acted like she had never seen a gym before. Can you even measure that kind of ignorance. They should have been lining up for her autograph. She also now has Hollywood contracts for two movies already to screen here in January.

    Dana White stated in ten years there will be women in the Octagon. Ronda will be one of them. She sold $750,000 worth of tickets for one fight without promotion. She is Rowdy Ronda Rousy.

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  58. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    It’s the colour of their attitude that I’m concerned about; not the colour of their skin.

    But you’ve just lumped a whole bunch of human beings (that is – people, like everyone else, like you, like me, like RF, like Chuck Bird) into a group and then attributed values, attitude and a set of beliefs to that entire group rather than to the individual human beings within that group. Notice how you’ve used the word “their” quite a lot. That’s a subconcious thing given to you by your upbringing. Them against us rather than a bunch of human beings – some good, some bad but not grouped into containers. That’s where it spreads from. And that’s were you’ve kinda gone wrong from the get go.

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  59. david (2,482 comments) says:

    Re the importance of race disclosure, perhaps the same emphasis on whakapapa should be applied as those who have done something to be proud of are so delighted to remind us. identifying family and tribal linkages might bring a bit of the social ramifications that occur when families experience shame and the negatives that result from poor upbringing.

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  60. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    that’s were you’ve kinda gone wrong from the get go.

    No not really, since stereotypes are useful for analysing human behaviour and they’re used all the time by everyone. for example: Mexican immigrants, Muslims, Maori, the unemployed, bankers, rich pricks, conservatives, lefties, Germans, Jews, etc etc etc etc etc.

    Of course if you don’t understand the limitations of stereotyping for social analysis then you’re a profound idiot, but insisting they should not be used is equally idiotic and simply betrays a blind adherence to political correctness which furthermore is hypocritical, since those who adhere to political correctness use them as much as anyone else: e.g. bankers, conservatives and rich pricks. Such people seem to hallucinate that when they use them they’re so vastly intelligent that they can use them correctly, whereas when the great unwashed use them, it’s a travesty of great magnitude, because those who aren’t politically correct have neither the intelligence nor the training to use them “correctly.” Which is ironic when you think about it because that’s a stereotype in itself, isn’t it.

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  61. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    I’ll take a seat. Reid’s got this one.

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  62. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    No not really, since stereotypes are useful for analysing human behaviour

    Of course. In correct, scientific, circumstances for example. But this is a blog. A collection of rants. And RF wants to know the race of some perps. presumably so he can rant and rave and feel like he’s doing some good in the world (but, in fact, he would just be reinforcing the reverse)

    since those who adhere to political correctness use them as much as anyone else: e.g. bankers, conservatives and rich prick

    By introducing political correctness into the equation you’ve essentially just outed your own definitions of the groups you believe in. You’ve provided a stereotypical group of “politically correct” individuals who only apply groupings to “bankers, conservatives and rich pricks” and not “Germans, Jews and Maori” thereby showing what you believe is your “us” against “them”. Again, all individual human beings who just “believe” in some things – with a lot of cross over inbetween but, to your mind, they are groups of people to whom you’re either with or against – no middle ground.

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  63. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    If two vicious bashings occur – say, rape and teeth smashed out, and possessions taken in each case – but one is a new Zealander and the other a tourist, should the sentence on conviction be the same?

    Or should the second crime automatically attract additional penalities.
    As perhaps an attack on a police officer, or paramedic?

    Is the attack on the tourist also a violation of everyone else’s sense of hospitality and responsibility, as well as being an attack on tourism.

    But then is just a New Zealander, a lesser victim?

    So as well as being concerned about the perpetrators ethnicity, what about the actual crime v others?

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  64. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    itstricky

    Without getting too involved, the use of stereotypes is a survival mechanism which has served the human race well. It is hard wired in each & everyone of us.

    The fact that humans can communicate allows previous learning to be shared…..not all of us have to put our hands in boiling water to find out that it’s hot & harmful…..not all of us have to be bitten by a snake to appreciate that those of a certain type & colouring are poisonous.

    Your half baked political correctness would rob us of the ability to discern the danger groups of sub human young thugs present as opposed to groups of boy scouts.

    The fact that the subject is being debated on a blog is of no consequence.

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  65. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    Your half baked political correctness would rob us of the ability to discern the danger groups of sub human young thugs present as opposed to groups of boy scouts.

    You are extropolating my statements out to the Nth degree (i.e. all the way back to evolution) and then proclaiming that it is untennable.

    A young human thug is easily identified as that without needing to know its name, race or religion.

    You’re also introducing political correctness into the picture which has not a lot to do with it.

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  66. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    In fact, Pauleastbay @ 11.53am is the only commenter to put up a coherent reason why residents & visitors to this country are not warned by neon signs three metres high of the dangers the Tangata Whenua present.

    If death & injury were caused on a similarly regular basis by bungy jumping, driving or diet, rest assured that the activity & its promoters would be the subject of TV campaigns & leaflets in doctors’ surgeries nationwide.

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  67. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    ….”A young human thug is easily identified as that without needing to know its name, race or religion.”….

    But don’t we owe it to tourists & ourselves to make identifying the threat as simple as possible.

    OSH should be on to this!

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  68. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    @Reid, According to you I am profound idiot because I have a lot of difficulty understand what you are trying to say.

    In the 1960s I seen ads in the paper for flat saying no dogs and no Maoris need apply. I knew of a case of a professional woman of Maori decent who rang about a flat and asked if it was still available and was told she had to come to the office which was a distance away. She asked why and they told her that what to see potential tenants first and as she did not sound Maori over the phone the agent mentioned the landlord did not want Maori.

    Another time when she was being shown flats they would take her to a dump in a bad neighbourhood and not like it when she refused to look at it. There are laws against that now so it is a lot more difficult for that type of blatant racism to occur. Few agents would risk it but landlord doing their own letting still do.

    Can you explain in ordinary English how stating the race of a person particularly if they are Maori accused or even found guilty of a crime will benefit New Zealand? I can understand if there is a race of immigrants involved in certain crime. People can lobby government to restrict immigration from a certain group.

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  69. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    But don’t we owe it to tourists & ourselves to make identifying the threat as simple as possible.

    What, by sticking up signs warning about particular groups of humans? So we should stick warning signs outside Catholic churches saying “warning: don’t bring pre-pubescent boys here”?

    And not really any comment on my last comment.

    Again, good people in the world, bad people. Bad people are not defined by their names, races, religions or well any other factor.

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  70. aitkenmike (94 comments) says:

    @Whiri

    You are a bit behind there. Strikeforce doesn’t exist anymore, and Rousey is the co-main event defending her UFC belt against Miesha Tate. I’m expecting her to pretty much dominate this fight, wouldn’t surprise me if she broke Tate’s arm again tonight.

    Can’t pick between Browne and Barnett, but should be a great fight, but Silva v Weidman will be huge. I’m expecting Silva to clown less than the first fight (but will still do it to some extent) and kick Weidman’s front leg into jello. If that happens I think Silva wins at some point in the championship rounds.

    Your thoughts Dime?

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  71. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    ….”Again, good people in the world, bad people. Bad people are not defined by their names, races, religions or well any other factor.”….

    Races & religions are hard to pin down as being major contributors to the occurrence of violence, mostly because it is considered to be offensive to debate the elephant in the room. This snivelling sensitivity is the product of university educated theoretical socialists everywhere.

    So let’s take the safe route…..do you deny that “cultural” factors may have an influence on the violent antisocial attitudes displayed by some of our “cultural” groups?

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  72. MH (558 comments) says:

    but when Hone and Tariana Turia keep talking about “our people” don’t we all want to identify her/their people. Note most of these attacks are racially targeted against Euros. Why is that? Let’s be honest. Or are these attacks random or statistically bound to occur by youths of any race under diminished responsibility because of the availability of drugs.
    Derek Fox on the Maori channel called me “the sons of thieves’. Bias and prejudice handed on through oral history.Is this just the result of greed,jealousy or pent up frustation and retaliation coming to the boil? Pretty sustained attack beyond the need to get away. And in court we will hear voices giving support to them? Kia Kaha. I don’t think my mum and dad would be there giving me any support if I did this. 175 yrs of colonial oppression and lack of respect? Segregated Schools where no European male teachers are available, no little white boys and girls to play with and we expect this not to happen? League teams in Akld where the only Euros are the match officials and coaches.
    No. These are racially motivated attacks and that’s the inconvenient truth.

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  73. Reid (15,535 comments) says:

    Can you explain in ordinary English how stating the race of a person particularly if they are Maori accused or even found guilty of a crime will benefit New Zealand?

    Chuck my 1:31 was a comment on stereotypes as they are used in real life, not on its appropriateness in a given situation. I don’t have any opinion on your question since that’s not the point I was making.

    If you want a very good example on people who shouldn’t use stereotypes because they’re not intellectually equipped so to do, I suggest you look at itstricky’s comments about following my 1:31. S/he’s made all sorts of stereotypical assumptions about not just me and how I think without even knowing me, but also about the motivations of someone called “RF.” If I used stereotypes like s/he does why I’d probably think he was just an insane galloping mental with a dribbling problem but of course I don’t think that at all.

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  74. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    In partial response to naaska re cultural/learned behavioral/human-nature factors

    Put one hoodie in a small NZ town and he’ll eventually climb out and seek his fortune elsewhere. Put 4 (four should be enough) hoodies in a small NZ town and none of them them will ever get out. Just was one begins to break away, the others will pull him back down again.

    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crab_mentality

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  75. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen

    There’s a good dollop of truth to what you write. The attitude is most destructive in schools & colleges where the brighter & hard working students are bullied into the ways of the no-hopers.

    Then there are no prospective leaders other than the thugs at the bottom of the swamp.

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  76. marcw (206 comments) says:

    Interesting how a group of cowardly thugs accused of attacking a defenceless young couple are granted name suppression “because it is their first court appearance” according to PEB, yet another NZ woman who is not Maori and who allegedly shot her husband, is named (and granted bail) at her first court appearance. Please expain the double standard.

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  77. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    @MH,There can be no doubt that Hone, Turia, Fox and other Maori are racist. I do not think that justifies white people being racist. I do not want Maori seats on a local or National level. However, highlighting without purpose a fact that everyone knows is racist. Do you want to be considered in the same category as the above? You sound like a politician. That is because an opposition MP does something wrong it justifies them doing the same.

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  78. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    @marcw, Maybe her lawyer did not ask for name suppression.

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  79. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    marcw

    From Paul’s comment:

    ….”I believe their initial appearance will have been before a J.P or Community Magistrate and suppression is 99.9% given until they appear before a Judge.”…..

    The inference is that it is probably the limited legal expertise of those lay people rather than the severity of the charges that dictates initial name suppression. It’s too late to decide later that valid reasons existed to suppress names/details of the accused.

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  80. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    “A good objective of leadership is to help those who are doing poorly to do well and to help those who are doing well to do even better.” -Jim Rohn

    In NZ, we get Jim’s quote half right.

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  81. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Odakyu-sen

    Peer pressure is an enormous influence in a young adult’s life, both for good & bad. It is after all how they test their position in their society & they will adjust their behaviour according to the responses of their fellows.

    I find it depressing to realise that a bunch of self serving feminist teachers are often the only “positive” role models for kids from families where school is viewed as little more than a free child minding service.

    The fact that any of them succeed is testament to the manner in which some humans can find a way to rise above crappy circumstances.

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  82. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Another feral on the loose: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179174

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  83. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Greenpeace, communist Greens, and fellow travelers Forest & Bird will rejoice these eco-terrorists are back home: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179153

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  84. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Manolo since your so fond of demonizing and labeling others would it be Ok to do you likewise – Conservative, extreme rightwing nuts and fellow travelers…etc. ?

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  85. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Some info & pictures from the Akademik Shokalskiy which became trapped in ice off the coast of Antarctica near Stillwell Island with a pack of climate alarmists on board. Ref: http://www.shipwrecklog.com/log/ (scroll about halfway down the page)

    Regrettably a rescue is underway……surely a pack of know all wanking scientists such as these would have enjoyed a few months experiencing the sea ice they forecast as having disappeared by now due to AGW. :)

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  86. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Climate alarmist vs Climate Deniers.?? Can you confirm or deny that e.g the Koch Brothers are both behind and funding the Climate Denial movement .?
    Is it also the agenda of deniers to pave the way for a totally unfettered and unregulated access to planet earth’s physical resources without any regard to issues of e.g sustainability and negative effects of environmental impacts.???

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  87. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    What, by sticking up signs warning about particular groups of humans? So we should stick warning signs outside Catholic churches saying “warning: don’t bring pre-pubescent boys here”?

    Probably more beneficial for a sign outside the seminary saying, “not hiring homosexuals for priestly positions”.

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  88. wat dabney (3,455 comments) says:

    Is it also the agenda of deniers to pave the way for a totally unfettered and unregulated access to planet earth’s physical resources without any regard to issues of e.g sustainability and negative effects of environmental impacts.???

    Rumbled.

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  89. RF (1,129 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird. 2.25pm. Re my desire to know the race of the savages that attacked the German Tourists. Pure and simple It’s because I want to know … What I do with this information is my business. Nothing sinister or a witch hunt. If the court does not suppress this information I have a right to know. For all I know the savages could be from outer Mongolia. Whatever their race I believe that they are scum sucking cowardly arse holes.

    Don’t get carried away and try and work out my reasons. I just like to be informed.

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  90. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    What I do know ‘stephieboy’, is that right behind the alarmists stand the UN commie proponents of World Government & their goal of taxing western civilisation out of existence.

    Until I see proof (not half baked computer models) I’ll continue to regard AGW as a hoax promoted by dishonest slimebuckets with an agenda.

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  91. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    The same stephie who is a member of the Young Nats (if such absurdity is possible)?

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  92. OneTrack (1,967 comments) says:

    stephieboy – “Can you confirm or deny that e.g the Koch Brothers are both behind and funding the Climate Denial movement .?”

    Which brothers? What funding? What movement?

    All I see is a few people who yearn for the old days when science was based on emperical measurements and predictions tested against reality. With climate “science” (sic), all we have are some sort of psuedo-science by vote (for funding reasons?), and “models” which simply dont predict reality and seem to depend on feedback mechanisms which dont seem to exist.

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  93. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    massaka and manolo .! all that needs to be said is that both your views represent the lunatic fringe of far right thinking and do not represent ( thank god.!) mainstream and rationally based thinking within the National Party

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  94. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    Shame on you, stephie. It’s people like you, “sheeple” without independence of mind, who are failing the National Party and veering it more and more towards the left.

    Gone are the days where the Nats could be called right of centre. The moniker Labour Lite fits very well today.

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  95. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Crikey….you need broad shoulders to comment here. Baity reckons I’m “marxist leftist scum” & stephieboy has got me pigeon-holed as “the lunatic fringe of far right “.

    There must be some middle ground somewhere! :)

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  96. Manolo (12,624 comments) says:

    @nasska: I reckon you are just in the middle of “the lunatic fringe of far right “. I mean fringe. :D
    C’mon, mate. stephie is just a callow youth getting a degree on women’s studies at some dodgy university.

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  97. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    Thanks Manolo…..I needed reassurance. :)

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  98. Longknives (4,048 comments) says:

    Here comes Nasska…3.2.1

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  99. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    The Year 3 pupils were bombarding the teacher
    with questions about her newly pierced ears.

    “Does the hole go all the way through?”

    “Yes.”

    “Did it hurt?”

    “Just a little.”

    “Did they stick a needle through your ears?”

    “No, they used a special gun.”

    Silence followed, and then one solemn voice called out,

    “How far away did they stand?”

    and another voice,

    “Did they do both ears with one shot?”

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  100. Fletch (5,721 comments) says:

    re: the climate – I see that not only has that Russian expedition ship (with Kiwis onboard) been stuck in the Antarctic ice, but the Chinese icebreaker sent to free it got stuck, too, and the French rescue ship was also called off. Now their rescue is dependant solely on an Australian ship.

    http://www.aysor.am/en/news/2013/12/28/antarctic-ice-breaker/
    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179140

    But don’t worry – nothing to see here; we’re worried about global warming.

    The expedition to gauge the effects of climate change on the region began November 27. The second, and current leg of the trip, started December 8 and was scheduled to conclude with a return to New Zealand on January 4.

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  101. slijmbal (1,133 comments) says:

    You cannot make this up

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11179006

    “Fired nurse who terrified patients wins $2500 compensation”

    Been involved in a couple of employment cases, which either ended up in front of the ERA or in the process of getting there.

    Always easy to spend other people’s money – the system is ludicrous as it’s so open to abuse. The people it’s theoretically protecting are the one’s who never seem to use it. It’s just become a tax on sacking bad employees.

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  102. Chuck Bird (4,410 comments) says:

    “What I do with this information is my business.”

    @RF, If you are so anti Maori why do you not have the courage of your convictions and use your full real name like I and a few others do?

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  103. nasska (9,517 comments) says:

    The scientific approach. :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/7ezc7lu7blq9t6c/IPCC.jpg

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  104. RF (1,129 comments) says:

    Chuck Bird. 8.18pm. Freedom of speech not to use my full name. Shit man look at the many posters on this site… Am I the only one. You are reading too much into what I say big brother but thats your problem. You really should Allow others freedom of expression. Anti Maori ? Maybe in certain cases but very Anti animals who have no concern for their fellow man. Sorry but I thought you would understand but then again I ask too much.. Chuck Bird.. Yea right.

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  105. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/americas/9561908/Boy-Scouts-to-accept-gays

    Good grief! Eagle who take Tenderfoot on camping trip only have one intent! :)

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  106. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    “Eagle who take Tenderfoot on camping trip only have one intent!”

    That started out sounding like one of those awful “Confucius, he say…” jokes, but without a recognizable punchline.

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  107. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    nasska (8,470 comments) says:
    December 29th, 2013 at 8:43 pm

    Steve Hunter cartoonist , climate denier who loves tarring and demonizing anyone with the same brush who does not agree with his fundamental assumptions.!
    Puerile and infantile.!

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  108. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    stephieboy meet Odakyu-sen….. Odakyu-sen meet stephieboy. :)

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  109. Johnboy (13,386 comments) says:

    Turds of a feather should agglomerate together! :)

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  110. Odakyu-sen (248 comments) says:

    Let’s see.. there’s Johnboy, now stephieboy.

    Johnboy brings up the topic of Boy Scouts.

    Where is this going, I wonder…?

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  111. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    for Johnboy
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16cWiWj–8E#t=224
    not quite rack of lamb, but Happy Christmas / New Year

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  112. stephieboy (1,127 comments) says:

    Johnboy this will surely strongly resonate with you,

    “I have never grown out of the infantile belief that the universe was made for me to suck.”

    Aleister Crowley

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  113. Sofia (780 comments) says:

    No? – see 9:50

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  114. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    So let’s take the safe route…..do you deny that “cultural” factors may have an influence on the violent antisocial attitudes displayed by some of our “cultural” groups?

    Yes, because there are 50 other more significant factors that influence which individual human being is violent and antisocial. One of those factors is those who put the potentially antisocial human being in a box with all his other “fellow perps” (and we know they’re *all the same* right?), put a label on the outside and file it away without revisiting it. As you’ve done. Simply reinforcing the existing stereotype until it becomes true because you’ve had a hand in perpetuating it.

    You also seem to have also confused what has happened with what may happen. If you continue to look at what has happened without ever thinking about what may happen if it were different then you just reinforce that little box you’ve got even further until you become a shrivelled up antisocial btard yourself – and you start taking everyone else down with you.

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  115. itstricky (1,139 comments) says:

    Interesting how a group of cowardly thugs accused of attacking a defenceless young couple are granted name suppression “because it is their first court appearance” according to PEB, yet another NZ woman who is not Maori and who allegedly shot her husband, is named (and granted bail) at her first court appearance. Please expain the double standard.

    It’s astounding how many legal experts hang out at KB. Especially during Christmas.

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  116. RF (1,129 comments) says:

    itstricky. 10.10am. Call me stupid but it does smack of double standards. I guess I was unlucky to be born white.

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  117. infused (615 comments) says:

    Good links Reid. Watched them all.

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