Dotcom and Mein Kampf

March 27th, 2014 at 7:39 am by David Farrar

3 News reports:

Internet millionaire and alleged cyber-pirate has admitted owning one of the rarest pieces of Nazi memorabilia in existence.

On the eve of the launch of his Internet Party, Dotcom has confirmed he purchased one of the first copies of ’s book, Mein Kampf, signed by the man who went on to establish the Third Reich.

It is one thing to read Mein Kampf. It is widely available. But to buy a rare first edition personally signed by Hitler is incredibly suspect, and very bad taste when done by someone of German nationality. To do a comparison, could you imagine a Cambodian buying an signed copy of the memoirs of Pol Pot?

“Let me make absolutely clear – I’m not buying into the Nazi ideology,” says Dotcom. “I’m totally against what the Nazis did. I did buy a cigar holder off Churchill and a pen off Stalin.”

There’s a big difference between a pen and the book which was used at motivation for genocide of around six million Jews.

Whale Oil has more details:

On May 21 2011 Alex Mardikian sat down for breakfast with Kim Dotcom in Spain. …

Dotcom asked what Mardikian thought about the fact he now owned a book written by “the greatest German who has ever lived”.

This is an on the record statement from Mr Mardikian. I am sure it is denied, but then you have to judge the motives of the two parties. What reason would Mardikian have to invent such a quote? Not hard to think of the reason you would deny it.

But there is more:

Further investigations by WOBH have revealed that not only does Kim Dotcom own a signed and autographed copy of Mein Kampf, one of the rarest copies on the market, but he also possesses other Nazi memorabilia.

One item is a Nazi flag, that until recently was displayed in the cellar of his mansion at Coatesville.

This presumably can be substantiated also. It either was or was displayed.

The flag was given to him on his birthday in 2011 by one of his guests at his birthday party.

At the time of the birthday and the gift Kim Dotcom exclaimed to all in attendance that this was “the best present he had ever been given”.

He profusely thanked the guest repeating over and over how happy he was to have received the flag. Again his closest confidantes remonstrated with Dotcom over the flag and he shrugged off the criticism by claiming it was all a big joke.

There were lots of guests at that party I assume, so again should be easy to verify if this is correct or not.

WOBH can confirm that the flag is still in the possession of Dotcom because in the days after the raids two staff were tidying up ahead of the arrival of John Campbell and his cameras. They were going to tour the mansion for a soft piece on the aftermath of the raid.

Those two staff thought, rightly, that the flag wouldn’t look good on television and so folded it up and put it away for safe keeping in some boxes also stored in the cellar.

One former staff member spoken to by WOBH (who wishes to remain anonymous due to ongoing threats from Dotcom) in our ongoing investigations of the REAL secret life of Kim Dotcom has told us that regularly, at dinner, Nazi salutes would be made and Nazi chants like “Heil Hitler”  and “Sieg Heil” were made, especially if the guests were mainly German.

The former staff member is unnamed, and again it is he said vs he said but what is the chance that both Mr Mardikian and the former staff member are both making it up, especially when combined with the fact that Dotcom did buy a signed copy of Mein Kampf and did keep and display a Nazi flag given to him?

Will this be enough to scare Hone Hawarira off the Dotcom Party? I don’t think so. The only demand Mana have made of Dotcom is that he agree to vote to get rid of National if they get MPs in Parliament. Of course the aim of the party is to get rid of National, as they want a sycophantic Government to replace them that will decline Dotcom’s extradition if the  courts find the extradition order is valid. So I am sure the Dotcom Party will in turn soon declare they are committed to getting rid of National, and then we’ll see how much control Hone has over Mana and can he get them to agree to an effective merger.

UPDATE: Tim Fookes at Newstalk ZB writes:

There’s nothing wrong with wanting to own war memorabilia , nothing at all, a lot of people would have war medals and the likes.

But in my opinion, there’s something quite despicable about wanting to own items belonging to the enemy, and in this case one of the most revolting excuses for a human being ever to walk on this earth, Adolf Hitler.

There’s something abhorrent about having a desire to own something as offensive to so many people, as Mein Kampf, and not only own it, but get a signed copy.

It speaks volumes about Kim Dotcom, or let’s quit calling him that, let’s call him by his real name Kim Schmitz.

Because he is German and appears in stark contrast to most Germans I’ve ever met who are ashamed beyond words about the behaviour of Hitler and his supporter. …

It may not just be that, there are reports circulating that he owns a Nazi flag and other memorabilia too, which poses the prospect that he could be a Nazi sympathiser.

With the launch today of the Internet Party, I’d hope New Zealanders will turn their back on Kim Dotcom in our droves and tell him ‘we don’t want you here, you are offensive’.

I hope that will happen, sadly though, I think he’ll get naive supporters who thinks what he’s doing is shaking the system, sticking the finger to the government, there will be that fringe element of support he’ll get.

You may say I’m overreacting, but I cannot believe he has the nerve to sit there smirking away as he admits he owns that book.

The apologists for Dotcom on this one will end up embarrassed, as more comes out.

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171 Responses to “Dotcom and Mein Kampf”

  1. Ross Nixon (614 comments) says:

    Sounds like a savvy investment, not one that I would flaunt though.
    I hope he also doesn’t have a copy of Karl Marx’s ‘The Communist Manifesto’. That would arguably be worse. (Communism has killed close to 200 million people).

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  2. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    This highlight’s one of the Internet Party’s biggest challenges – not to be labeled and seen as ‘the Dotcom Party’.

    Those involved in the party are obviously aware of this, Chief Executive Vikram Kumar is talking of the party being distinct from Dotcom. The party is being launched without Dotcom – but it’s being done from his Coatesville home.

    The Internet Party’s biggest challenge

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  3. Nostalgia-NZ (5,097 comments) says:

    Hone has already said he won’t be entering any arrangement with the Internet Party, back to the drawing board on that one.

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  4. Manolo (13,517 comments) says:

    The obese German crook should be deported, and poor Hone will never receive his one million dollars.

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  5. BlairM (2,317 comments) says:

    Of all the things one could criticise Augustus Gloop for, sure, let’s go for the most trivial and pointless of them and focus on that, shall we?

    I don’t give a flying fuck what rare memorabilia he collects. I think it would be cool to have a signed copy of Mein Kampf. I’m more bothered by the alleged fraud, inability to pay his bills and staff adequately, the charges against him, and his blatant and overt attempt to subvert NZ democracy. Some flag and some book in his possession should be the least of anyone’s worries. Honestly…

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  6. hj (6,836 comments) says:

    A Bullshit post since you omit that he also has Stalin and Churchill memorabilia. Nazi-ism is dead, what is more relevant to NZ is who is shagging who.
    http://www.propertynz.co.nz/

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  7. BeeJay (71 comments) says:

    Is there any more? This is getting scary when there is this ongoing talk of 2 megalomaniacs getting together to destroy our country. Both racist, but poles apart in their version of the hatred that they carry inside. Surely common sense will prevail and kiwis will make the right decision about these two loonies and get rid of them both.

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  8. Barnsley Bill (983 comments) says:

    Give it a few days. Cam has more.

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  9. Peter (1,689 comments) says:

    I’m no fan of dot.com, but this is a pathetic beatup. It’s running very close to censorship of ideas.

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  10. dave53 (87 comments) says:

    My wife has a copy of Mein Kampf. Some German friends who stayed with us recently had no issue at all with that, and said it was a pity it was virtually banned in Germany, as anyone who read it would see how ridiculous it was.

    My wife collects historical books from all over. Some are hundreds of years old.

    I have no time for Dotcom especially as he doesn’t pay his creditors despite his millions, but your post is pure sleaze David and you know it.

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  11. kowtow (8,175 comments) says:

    Nothing wrong with owning WW2 memorabilia.

    I hate the attempt by media etc to vilify people based on their interests in history.

    However ,subscribing to Nazi ideology is another matter altogether.

    And as other posters have noted above it would be quite refreshing if media organisations and gummints took the same attitude to communist ideology ,symbols and displays as they do to Nazi.Equally brutal and oppressive.

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  12. Akaroa (552 comments) says:

    Hmmm! Copy of Mein Kampf,eh?

    Well, let me say this. In my experience people with an interest in the Nazis, Adolf Hitler, Crystal-nacht, the internal rivalries and personalities of the pre-WW2 German Socialists (or National Socialists) etc., etc., fall into a number of readliy identifiable categories.

    These categories are are, in my admittedly limited experience, firstly those who are still fascinated by the fact that Adolf Schikelgruber – aka Hitler – was able to con an ostensibly sensible and feet-on-the-ground nation like Germany and lead them into the one of the biggest political and military debacles the World has ever seen. You could call these the ‘How-the-hell-did-THAT-happen?’ group.

    Then there are the people who are just fascinated by the preudo-mystique and inventred folk-lore that under-pinned the flawed concept of Hitler-ite National Socialism . (I suspect ol’ Kim Dotty-Com might fit into this group)

    Then there are those pseudo political scientists who believe that National Socialism was the absolute bees knees and the answer to all the World’s problems and that Germany would today be sitting on the top of the World heap – if only Adolf hadn’t had such a thing about the Jews. Call them the ‘He was right y’know!” group.

    Then there are the quiet, silent ones who we don’t hear much about, but who are committed to recapturing those – to them – heady days of the 1930s when Germany seemed modern. forward looking, success-bound and up-beat. There aren’t I think all that many of them. Call them the ‘Better-keep-a-close-eye-on-these-turkeys’ group.

    But one things certain, the events of 39-45 and before are such that this murky subject – (Nazis and their philosophy) – will continue to fascinate certain people………

    (I was going to say ‘….of limited intelligence and morality”, but some of them are pretty successful in todays’ materialistic terms)

    Happy daze. eh?

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  13. Harriet (4,777 comments) says:

    LOL – he has millions – but has the ‘need’ to invest in that sick shit? I call bullshit!

    So Mana too thinks it’s a good idea for kiwi’s to invest their money in ‘whatever’ – except power companies?

    Fine.

    I’m going to invest in a rare Confederate flag signed by General Robert E Lee – and postcards from that era which show negros hanging. Fuck what Hone thinks. :cool:

    Postcards of hanging negros:
    https://www.google.com.au/search?q=postcards+of+negros+hanging&rlz=1T4GPEA_enAU304AU308&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=ziUzU_nqM4WfkQXty4G4Bw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=819

    You can also still get lamp shades made from the skin of Jews – and soap made from their rendered bodies – if any of you are interested.[However I believe they are all in private collections.]

    Key – due also to his heritage – is going to publicly tear a new arsehole in the sick nazi mother fucker Dotcom.

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  14. tvb (4,324 comments) says:

    So Hone is prepared to do a deal with a deranged German with Nazi sympathies. Hone needs to get a grip. I just hope this move will be fatal for Harawera but I doubt it. The only thing Harawera is asking is no deals with National.

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  15. secondcumming (92 comments) says:

    I agree with ‘Peter@7.55am’…..this is a a complete and utter beat-up! I also have an extensive collection of Nazi memorabilia, much of it inherited from my grandfather which he brought back as a returned soldier following WW2. It can be freely traded at regular intervals here in Auckland thru ‘Carvels Auctions’…..(see their online catalogues). One thing is certain, it doesn’t make me a Nazi symphathiser ….or stop me from voting for John Key.

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  16. freethinker (688 comments) says:

    The connection with Hone Harawira will prove a bigger problem for the Internet party than Meine Kampf.

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  17. Nigel Kearney (970 comments) says:

    I’m sick of the crap this blog has started putting out now that it’s an election year. Man owns book. So fucking what.

    I’ll come back here in October when maybe David’s previous high standards will be back in place.

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  18. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    WOW

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  19. notrotsky (79 comments) says:

    What Nigel K said.

    This is the kind of retarded breathless reporting I’d expect from the hacks at TV one and TV 3.

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  20. SW (240 comments) says:

    Another smear campaign aye, nasty stuff from the Nats attack dogs

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  21. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Seems KB is not read by those of a titillating tabloid predisposition..

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  22. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    What are you worried about

    YOU NOW FLY THE FLAG OF MAORI FASCISM
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tino_Rangatiratanga_Maori_sovereignty_movement_flag.svg

    with the sanction and approval of JK

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tino_rangatiratanga

    YOU ARE FASCISTS

    AND THAT IS THE TRUTH

    Cowards Liars and Fascists

    ‘absolute sovereignty’.

    Now all you need is a SUITABLE

    RAG TO FLAP

    Beside that pile of C R A P

    that NO ONE VOTED FOR

    FASCISTS

    [DPF: 20 demerits. Now at 80]

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  23. WineOh (629 comments) says:

    It would need to be put in perspective – does he have collections of other rare signed books, or does he have a morbid fascination with the third reich. An old samurai sword, some antiquities from ancient Egypt, rennaisance art? In which case I would have no issues at all. Having the fuhrer’s signature on it makes it all the more valuable.

    If however his collection consists of nazi flags, wehrmacht plates and cutlery, perhaps some memoirs of Rudoph Hess & Goering, then it takes a more sinister turn. Doesn’t the man infamously drive a jet-black Mercedes 4WD and fancy himself above us mere mortal men?

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  24. Nostalgia-NZ (5,097 comments) says:

    ‘http://www.newstalkzb.co.nz/auckland/news/nbpol/820949569-harawira-rules-out-working-with-internet-party’

    Additionally, wasn’t it ‘reported’ that the Internet Party was dead in the water?

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  25. Cunningham (836 comments) says:

    People are saying it is a beat up. I say let’s find out what this guy is all about. The media have been tripping over themselves to make out like he is some caring German version of Santa Claus who has been so hard done by. Well people have a right to know what this guy is really like so it is absolutely relevant. Particularly now that he is getting involved in a political party.

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  26. Ashley Schaeffer (457 comments) says:

    This is a beat-up and it’s disappointing that DPF feels the need to jump on the bullshit train with the MSM and the tabloid rag WOBH.

    I don’t like Dotcon, but owning Nazi memorabilia doesn’t make you a Nazi. Someone above mentioned The Communist Manifesto. I own a copy of that. I’m no fan of Communism, but I like to understand the enemy.

    One thing that has become apparent to me about Dotcon is that he has a dark sense of humour. That’s where I think this is coming from and is now being used by his political enemies to cast him as something he’s not.

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  27. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    Wow is right. Talk about stooping to low levels and using propaganda (one of Hitler’s favourite tools).

    I said last week that National (and indeed all parties) needed to be very careful how they continue to vilify their enemies, because they risk going overboard and being regarded as bullies – in which case the New Zealand public, will turn on them, as they love to support the underdog. …. well done guys, I think you’ve almost reached your limit with this one, and if other blogs are anything to go by, your attempts have not gone down well at all.

    Firstly, Kim Dotcom also owns memorabilia from other famous people, including Winston Churchill. Had he not had such a collection then maybe at a pinch the accusations could be warranted – but under the circumstances they are not.

    Secondly, purchasing books signed by their authors is a great investment.

    Thirdly, I think I saw some hysterical person suggest that all copies should be burned? REALLY? Destroy the history, destroy the knowledge, destroy the ability to analyse the man and his thought processes and you destroy the opportunity to prevent such a thing happening again.

    Fourthly, the book is a curiosity – people, many people read it because they are curious about a man that managed to achieve so much, with such a troubled mind. People like to see what he had to say in his own words.

    This is nothing more than a desperate attempt – a beat up.

    PS I know for a fact that there is a copy of the book in the library of one of Auckland’s leading Jewish spokesmen. Are you going to try and hang him out to dry, or doesn’t that matter because he isn’t a threat to you?

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  28. Yogibear (360 comments) says:

    “I own Stalins pen”

    Yes Kim, that’s MUCH better

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  29. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    Cunningham (726 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 8:45 am
    People are saying it is a beat up. I say let’s find out what this guy is all about.

    So we should open up the cupboards of all our politicians – see what they own – and judge them from that?

    If you want it for one, lets do it to them all – lets check if any have skid marks in their undies eh?

    Pathetic – absolutely pathetic – you cannot do it to just one politician unless you are prepared to do it to them all.

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  30. Nostalgia-NZ (5,097 comments) says:

    When will the calls for book burning begin?

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  31. Colville (2,252 comments) says:

    Hone has already said he won’t be entering any arrangement with the Internet Party, back to the drawing board on that one.

    Nostaglia @ 7.48 got a citation for that?

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  32. Rick Rowling (825 comments) says:

    Peter says: I’m no fan of dot.com, but this is a pathetic beatup. It’s running very close to censorship of ideas.

    No, it’s treating Dotcom like any other wannabe politician – reporting stuff that he’s doing that would affect whether voters will think him appropriate to be one of our leaders.

    Political life has a lot of benefits, but one of the costs is that you don’t do stuff like this, or shag your intern in a council meeting room, or charge up blue movies to your Ministerial card, or encourage weird religious sects to anonymously campaign for you – it’s reflective of your judgment, and therefore your suitability to govern.

    / Incidentally, it’s hilarious that everyone over at Labour’s official blog the standard thinks that owning personally signed Hitler stuff is A-Okay. Imagine if it was John Banks who owned it….

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  33. kiwi in america (2,495 comments) says:

    Owning a rare Hitler signed copy of “Mein Kampf” is a big deal … if you seek to be a person of influence on the political stage. As a wealthy private citizen if Dotcom wants to collect rare books then this is one likely guaranteed to rise in value. But when put alongside his clear Nazi sympathies and his numerous attempts to effectively buy political influence in our small country – done ostensibly to avoid extradition to the US – these revelations are understandably explosive. Whaleoil’s series of questions to Clare Curren (who presented Labour’s IT policy clearly written by KDC), Winston Peters (who, after his 3 visits to Coatesville, was soon asking a series of Parliamentary Questions on the GCSB and KDC), Russell Norman (who flirted with an arrangement in exchange for the Greens in government blocking KDC’s likely extradition), Hone Harawiri (pimping $1million for Mana plus a possible coat tail arrangement with the Internet Party to get Sykes or Minto into Parliament) and Shane Jones (the jury is out on what HE wanted from the fat German) are timely and need answering. These meetings, and the raft of hagiographic and sympathetic media articles and programmes, amount to unprecedented political influence for a man with such a questionable past and that’s BEFORE Whale and TV3’s latest revelations.

    To those who have posted ‘nothing to see here move along comments’ – imagine the reaction if it turned out that senior National front bencher, Peter Dunne or John Banks had a rare signed edition of Mein Kampf? The demands for resignation would be swifter than the time it takes to say “Goodwin’s Law”!

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  34. SW (240 comments) says:

    Wine oh – Dotcom has apparently said that he has Stalin and Churchill memorabilia as well. Basically, he is into WW2 memorabilia and does not subscribe to Nazi ideology. Big fan of that WW2 game apparently.

    DPF obviously left that information out accidentally. It makes way more sense that a guy with a phillippine wife would secretly be a Nazi – I mean the guy is German after all

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  35. RRM (9,774 comments) says:

    DPF do you know what it’s like to be a German with an awareness of your own country’s Nazi past?

    I know I don’t.

    But there are all sorts of reasons why someone might own a signed original of Mein Kampf. It is very presumptuous to be screaming OMG NAZI SICKOS!! and I am surprised to see you going there, you’re better than this.

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  36. KiwiGreg (3,247 comments) says:

    Agree with BlairM. WOBH has an unhealthy obsession with the dotcom; this is a complete sideshow. If we demonise people based on the books they own where are we headed?

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  37. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ WineOh (408 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 8:42 am

    Even then I am not sure it actually means a lot. There is a very successful businessman in Auckland that has a collection of German War memorabilia that is extensive. My father bought several items of German memorabilia back from the War – and yet he fought against them.

    If Kim Dotcom practiced the teachings of Hitler, then maybe you have a point – but given his marriage, his mixing with other nationalities and ethnic groups, I really really think anyone would be extremely hard pushed to try and fit him into that frame.

    If you’re going to hang him – then perhaps we should did up my father, and many many more men and probably some women who were/are also interested in such things.

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  38. Colville (2,252 comments) says:

    Like dave53 above SWMBO collects old books, said its probably a fake anyways…DotCon is dumb enough to buy a fake.

    I have no issue at all with someone owning Nazi stuff as long as its not like Kyle down in ChCh and used as a place of worship. I have spent a lot of time around guns and war memorabilia, the Nazis Gott Mit Uns emblazoned on their daggers always made me laugh. Yeah right, God told you to feed all those people into the ovens.

    DotCon owning this book probably says more about his huge ego than anything else, that he can do what ever he likes and we mere mortals will lap it up.

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  39. Harriet (4,777 comments) says:

    “….So we should open up the cupboards of all our politicians – see what they own – and judge them from that?…”

    Judith, he’s a German – with Nazi stuff.

    Just like a Southern Republican having slavery stuff.

    In other words – he doesn’t have the JUDGEMENT to stand as an MP! He’s a fucken joke!

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  40. WineOh (629 comments) says:

    @ SW & Judith

    Fair points. And I also don’t ascribe to destroying memorabilia. ‘Lest we forget.’

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  41. Cunningham (836 comments) says:

    Judith (5,362 comments) says:

    “If you want it for one, lets do it to them all – lets check if any have skid marks in their undies eh?”

    This guy is taking NZ for a ride and he deserves scrutiny just like all other politicians. It is not just the book but the other things coming out that paint a picture of what he is really like. The MSM have given him a free ride yet he is up for extradition to the US and some politicians have said they would potentially ignore a court ruling. That has massive implications.

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  42. Peter (1,689 comments) says:

    No, it’s treating Dotcom like any other wannabe politician – reporting stuff that he’s doing that would affect whether voters will think him appropriate to be one of our leaders.

    So, we’re seriously supposed to believe the man is a Nazi? His goal is to round up people who don’t fit the Aryan model and exterminate them? He wants to bring about a master race? Really?

    If not, then *what is it* we’re being asked to believe here?

    Could he be a fantasist who plays war games on his xBox, and is now being attacked by people with a political agenda?

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  43. NoCash (257 comments) says:

    The Mana Internetional Front Party?

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  44. davidp (3,576 comments) says:

    Has anyone asked Norman and Peters whether they discussed Naziism with Dotcom when he summoned them to his place? Did Dotcom ever comment about Key (who he absolutely hates) being Jewish? Does Dotcom share Norman’s and Peters’ anti-Chinese beliefs? Did either of them see the Nazi flag hanging in Dotcom’s basement?

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  45. fernglas (142 comments) says:

    Owning the book is not the only issue. In conjunction with what Whaleoil alleges, if true, there is evidence of ideological persuasions, of a man who is to found a political party, which are diametrically opposite to a party with which it may join at election time. Surely those things are matters of legitimate public interest? As yet we don’t know what exactly the internet party policies will be, but if they talk about freedom of speech and freedom from state surveillance, it is clearly relevant that the founder of the party appears to sympathise with a man whose political life was denial of those principles. Or do I detect a number of posters saying that there’s really not that much wrong with admiring Hitler, at least he kept the gas chambers running on time?

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  46. dave53 (87 comments) says:

    he doesn’t have the JUDGEMENT to stand as an MP!

    He doesn’t have the legal status to stand as an MP because he is not a New Zealand citizen.

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  47. Brian Smaller (4,037 comments) says:

    Come on David. If I could afford a signed copy of Mein Kampf I would buy it too. It IS a canny investment. I would suggest more people read it to see what a complete nutter the author was. Interestingly enough it is a very popular book in the Middle East and is still being printed there.

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  48. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (871 comments) says:

    He can whip up a huge crowd with the promise of an ice cream and free tickets to concert. Pity really…..

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  49. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Owning the signed book is not much of an issue, by itself. The Whale appears to have come up with a couple of witnesses that suggest Dotcom has a real infatuation with Nazis. That’s a bit more concerning, but it’s still at about the same level as Prince Harry dressing up in an SS uniform, and no one thinks he’s a Nazi. I’m still to be convinced that this is much of a story at all.

    I wonder what Kiwiblog’s resident Nazi apologist, Reid, will have to say.

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  50. Keeping Stock (10,265 comments) says:

    Nostalgia said

    Hone has already said he won’t be entering any arrangement with the Internet Party, back to the drawing board on that one.

    Harawira left the door slightly ajar Nosty. He said that if there was a common goal to get rid of John Key, he’d be open to talks. Vikram Kumar was not prepared to give that undertaking on Monday, which was why Harawira took a step back.

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  51. SGA (983 comments) says:

    I wonder how many of the people who own a rare autographed copy of “Das Kapital” are actually communists? A really good one goes for about NZ$250,000 from what I can tell.

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  52. Fisiani (1,025 comments) says:

    The Internet NaZi Party will be launched today by Kim Shultz. The only way to take them out of the equation and the MSM love affair with the convicted crook is to give National 51%+ in September.

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  53. Alan (1,087 comments) says:

    Utter nonsense, a nazi wouldn’t marry an asian girl.

    This early in election year, it’s a new low.

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  54. Ashley Schaeffer (457 comments) says:

    Does this thread count as being Godwinned?

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  55. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Yup. I despise neo-nazism, and I’m no fan of the thief Dotcom, but it’s just ludicrous to think Dotcom, a guy married to an asian who likes rap music (ugh) is a closet Nazi.

    Demerits David! This post was more worthy of the Standard.

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  56. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    I find it hard to believe that Dotcom has what it takes to muster 5% but is this latest revelation all that damaging? Personally I thought the suggestion that he didn’t pay his staff the minimum wage and threatened them with his “legal capabilities” to be far more damaging.

    But this seems to play into what the Internet Party is all about which is doing stuff on the internet, in the privacy of your own home, which you believe is no one elses concern, whether that is downloading copyrighted material or taking an interest in subjects the government might censor or use to keep track of you. Dotcom’s Nazi memorabilia may be a metaphor for what the general public might do online but doesn’t want the government or the general public to know about.

    People may shy away offended that he keeps Nazi memorabilia… or they may start thinking about what’s in their own basement.

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  57. ben (2,420 comments) says:

    Well at least we can avoid all reference to Godwin’s Law in this thread.

    This is political death for Dotkom.

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  58. Elaycee (4,353 comments) says:

    I don’t consider the fact DotCom purchased a rare book (by proxy), all that unusual. Not my cup of tea, but people collect weird stuff. And displaying a Nazi flag / Nazi memorabilia at his rented home is not a crime either – not something I’d do, but each to their own. No different to people having Japanese war memorabilia – even my own Dad brought things home from the Pacific at the end of WWII.

    But if this is correct: …regularly, at dinner, Nazi salutes would be made and Nazi chants like “Heil Hitler” and “Sieg Heil” were made, especially if the guests were mainly German, then it suggests to me Kim Dot Com is not only a collector of things Nazi, but also a sympathiser.

    And that, to me, rings alarm bells…

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  59. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    “People may shy away offended that he keeps Nazi memorabilia… or they may start thinking about what’s in their own basement.”

    I would be more concerned had Dotcom admitted to having a full collection of Barry Manilow records ;)

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  60. Nostalgia-NZ (5,097 comments) says:

    Point taken KS.

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  61. RRM (9,774 comments) says:

    But if this is correct: …regularly, at dinner, Nazi salutes would be made and Nazi chants like “Heil Hitler” and “Sieg Heil” were made, especially if the guests were mainly German, then it suggests to me Kim Dot Com is not only a collector of things Nazi, but also a sympathiser.

    Kind of like that other well known Nazi sympathiser, Basil Fawlty??!?

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  62. davidp (3,576 comments) says:

    Elaycee>But if this is correct: …regularly, at dinner, Nazi salutes would be made and Nazi chants like “Heil Hitler” and “Sieg Heil” were made, especially if the guests were mainly German, then it suggests to me Kim Dot Com is not only a collector of things Nazi, but also a sympathiser.

    Whaleoil has a photo of him wearing a WW2-era German army helmet with SS insignia. That’s like a politician from Mississippi owning a collection of slave memorabilia, hanging a Confederate flag on his wall, and dressing up in Klan uniform for shits and giggles.

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  63. RRM (9,774 comments) says:

    DPF:
    The apologists for Dotcom on this one will end up embarrassed, as more comes out.

    ZE APOLOGISTS FOR DOTCOM VILL BE TIED UP WITH PIANO WIRE!!!

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  64. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    Elaycee (3,954 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 9:57 am

    But if this is correct: …regularly, at dinner, Nazi salutes would be made and Nazi chants like “Heil Hitler” and “Sieg Heil” were made, especially if the guests were mainly German then it suggests to me Kim Dot Com is not only a collector of things Nazi, but also a sympathiser.

    Nah.. if true I would say it’s part of his megalomania. The excessive security… the collectibles from famous historical figures… the most expensive house in the country… the album… the political party… his whole lifestyle is a massive ego-boosting exercise. Genuine Nazi sympathies makes zero sense.

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  65. Nostalgia-NZ (5,097 comments) says:

    There’s a citation at 8.43 Colville.
    Incidentally there are groups within NZ who have Nazi uniforms and equipment as a hobby. I saw them doing re-enactments at Motat a few years ago against Allied forces, some even spoke German. My grandmother had a signed drawing by Von Luckner (pro Nazism of course) which remains in the family from the time he was imprisoned out in the gulf, possibly worse, I smiled when watching the clip of John Cleese goose stepping with a finger under his nose that somebody posted yesterday.

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  66. tvb (4,324 comments) says:

    Hone’s only stipulation for KDC is no deal with National. No renouncing of the nazi sympathies. And he is prepared to tolerate that for the money.

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  67. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    Dot com has crashed right though the political edifice.
    from Banks and act all the way down and has now splattered on the crap in the basement.

    However no real lasting damage just more shit to puddle at the bottom of NZ politics.

    Slappy Sue, psycho the stone age lawyer and sergeant Shultz :lol:

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  68. doggone7 (769 comments) says:

    RRM

    I was going to uptick your first comment until I read the last bit. He is not “…better than this.”

    At the end of the year to prove his ‘balance’ he will produce stats of how many posts and comments he has made supporting whichever side of the political fence. Comments saying Kelvin Davis would be preferable to Hone Harawira as MP for Tai Tokerau and the fact that Annette King asked the Minister of Health 47 questions in the House would be two ticks on the left side. This will even out two beat up articles under misleading headlines which would seem to have no other purpose than to rouse the wild dogs and ignorant and keep the right people people seething and suspicious.

    Totally, absolutely right to do so of course but daily evidence of not being “better than this.”

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  69. Viking2 (11,367 comments) says:

    fuck what a beat up. Thousands of people round the world and in NZ have this sort of memorabilia. Many also have stolen items of all sorts. Whale is getting desperate for readers.

    Even the knucklehead on TV3 said it was just a beat up.

    Typical Kiwi Tall Poppy Syndrome.

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  70. jackinabox (781 comments) says:

    “I have no time for Dotcom especially as he doesn’t pay his creditors despite his millions, but your post is pure sleaze David and you know it.”

    I gave Dotcom the benefit of my doubt until I heard him try to justify not paying his creditors by claiming that he did not legally owe the money it was a Limited Liability Company that owed the money. Something like that? Fuck him!

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  71. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,880 comments) says:

    Akaroa @ 8:03

    “…..was able to con an ostensibly sensible and feet-on-the-ground nation…..”

    In much the same way Herr Shmitz has conned New Zealand.

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  72. flipper (3,948 comments) says:

    As I said when this subject arose a few weeks ago, if I could afford it I, and had the spare cash, I would purchase a signed copy of Mein Kampf…. and put it in my library, along with William Shirer’s Rise and fall of The Third Reich, as a reminder of how such trash can result in so much pain – for millions and millions. Alternatively I would donate my copy to the Holocaust Centre library in Wellington (I have already donated several books to that library), visited by my wife and one granddaughter some three weeks ago.

    But as for Dottiecom… I do not care what he reads or possesses. Let us never go down a road that bans or burns books.

    And on that, before making this comment I checked on Amazon. They currently have 15, yes 15, different printings of Mein Kampf for sale. Included is the “special banned edition” by Hitler and Murphy, the Ford Translation, a special German edition in hardcover ($US40.88), and Hitler’s Second Book (unpublished).
    Prices range from 0.98c (Kindle) to $US41.

    Incidentally, the same listing brings up The Communist Manifesto by K Marx and F Engels, at $US3.94…. showing that nutty publications are a valuable history lesson because they show what we should avoid, albeit some would take us back 

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  73. MT_Tinman (3,094 comments) says:

    WWII finished in 1945 with the defeat of the Nazis.

    It is now 2014.

    I have no time at all for the German crim and hope to see him extradited asap but not for owning some memorabilia of a long ago era.

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  74. Peter (1,689 comments) says:

    Some people, including many MPs, own a book that is fine with slavery and ritual human sacrifice. Some will have the symbol of this book – a dead guy nailed to stick – up on their walls. They worship it. It’s probably not even in their basement, but in plain view.

    Are these people evil? No. I can’t say I agree with their ideology, but I’m pretty sure they’ve not serious about the bad bits.

    Unless WO has some further rock-solid proof regarding KDCs ideological beliefs, then I can’t help but feel the speedboat is firing up, the leather jacket is being zipped, and the shark enclosure jump ramp beckons.

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  75. Colinxy (22 comments) says:

    I await Slater (or someone else) proving Kim Dotcom is a National Socialist German Workers Party sympathiser. At the moment it is speculation. His best proof at the moment are the words of Alex, but I would personally want something more concrete. Being labelled a Nazi sympathiser is pretty strong condemnation, and as such requires strong proof IMO. The Hitler signed copy of Mein Kampf is not in of itself proof. If Alex’s words are true about Dotcom describing Hitler as the ‘Greatest German who has ever lived’ then IMO it could be construed as proof, but Alex’s words are the key part in that assessment.

    It may be that Kim is, as he states, an avid WWII collector (due to Call of Duty.) Being of German extraction he may even favour German memorabilia over other countries. At this point we only have hearsay evidence that it is anything otherwise.

    If Slater or someone else cannot prove the connection, this will reflect badly on him; accusing someone of being a Nazi sympathiser is usually reductio ad Hitlerum. Slater, for his sake, better have something stronger than what he has revealed to date.

    I had a friend who had a genuine Nazi flag. It was something her grandfather brought back from the war. It didn’t make her a Nazi (plus she had other Nazi memorabilia inherited from her grandfather.) IOW Nazi memorabilia is not proof alone of Nazi sympathy.

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  76. Duxton (633 comments) says:

    While I don’t have a problem with him owning a signed copy of Mein Kampf, it does concern me is that he has bought the book while ripping off his creditors and failing to pay his employees.

    The additional information in WOBH, about Nazi salutes before dinner and a Nazi flag being the best gift he has ever received, are alarming. The Mana Party need to condemn this in the strongest terms.

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  77. Duxton (633 comments) says:

    Further to my last, there is the associated issue of the film crew from TV3 suggesting that the flag be taken off the wall, as it “wouldn’t look good on television and so folded it up and put it away for safe keeping in some boxes also stored in the cellar.”

    Is there job to report the news, or pervert it? IMHO, the removal of the flag helped TV3 give a different impression of the German Slug, and thereby effectively perverted the report.

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  78. b1gdaddynz (279 comments) says:

    I think a good test would be how would people react if it was revealed that John Key had a signed 1st edition copy of Mein Kampf? Do you think he would still be PM? Do you think the left and the media wouldn’t go to town over it?

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  79. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    We have seen nothing from Kim Dotcom that shows he has anything more than a fascination with war and in particular war in his own country.

    How many of our ancestors took the shrunken heads of Maori as ‘memorabilia’ – does that mean the people that own such things are ‘cannibal supporters’?

    How many of us have been to dress up parties where at least one clown has gone dressed as either Hitler or a member of the 3rd Reich, and everyone upon greeting them has ‘hailed Hitler’ and so on?

    If I remember correctly, didn’t one of our own Princes do exactly that?

    More to come? Really? Or more human behaviour that can be twisted to look like anything if you try hard enough?
    No doubt you can find one or two people that remember Kim Dotcom going ‘hail Hitler’ at a dinner party – just as many of us have done (and persistently did as children when playing war games) – I have german friends that say they are persistently greeted like that in a light hearted manner, simply because of their nationality. Unless you can come up with something that absolutely PROVES he is a practicing Nazi – its all just pathetic desperation and it is impeding on the individual’s right to enjoy life.

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  80. burt (8,199 comments) says:

    Well this explains why Dotcom is talking to Labour and the Green’s – The National Socialists Workers Party ideology is something they all share. Lets not forget the root of the evil behaviour because the current day lot are a little better at PR than the fanatical socialists of the past.

    Watch the Green’s agree that “climate change deniers” should be locked up !

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  81. backster (2,142 comments) says:

    Maybe Russell Norman, Winston First, Shane and Claire, all made their pilgrimage to Coatsville to read the book before they aligned their own policies.

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  82. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    I actually agree with Judith :)

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  83. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    Harriet (3,930 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 9:00 am
    Judith, he’s a German – with Nazi stuff.

    Just like a Southern Republican having slavery stuff.

    I’m mostly Scottish and I have a 240 year old scottish dirk – and a scottish ancestry that includes one of them roasting a monk over a fire and other equally bizarre and violent acts.

    Should the dirk be confiscated from me, and I never be allowed to run for politics (not that I’m insane enough to ever want to)?

    A friend is Maori and from a hapu that are known to have been cannibals, she wears a bone carving around her neck – should I refuse to go to her place for dinner – should she be allowed to continue her employment as a chef?

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  84. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Yes Judith, but the principal problem for me is whether Dotcommandant has expressed his admiration of Hitler. That goes towards assessing any credibility he may aspire to as a political figure.

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  85. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    ***Or do I detect a number of posters saying that there’s really not that much wrong with admiring Hitler, at least he kept the gas chambers running on time?***

    @ fernglass,

    Did you ever read the History Now (Canterbury University history journal) article about the Hayward controversy? The evidence of those, or of any official orders is not as strong as I previously thought. In fact the International Red Cross, reported deaths were due to disease and starvation. Similarly, the British Intelligence which had access to German communications noted reports of deaths by disease, hangings & shooting. Although that’s kind of getting off topic.

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  86. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    ***Does Dotcom share Norman’s and Peters’ anti-Chinese beliefs? ***

    His wife is Asian so I’m guessing no.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11160836

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  87. Liam Hehir (123 comments) says:

    … but the principal problem for me is whether Dotcommandant has expressed his admiration of Hitler.

    As did Arnold Schwarzenegger

    I’m reserving judgment and inclined to give the man the benefit of the doubt until more concrete evidence comes out.

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  88. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild (8,025 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 11:58 am

    I agree, but it does depend on the level of admiration. I have to say, despite having relatives that died in the death camps and some that were slaughtered in the open, I still have a degree of admiration ( or perhaps fascination is the right word) for a man that managed to fool so many into doing such bizarre things. His intellect is amazing, and the fact that even now he manages to divide people – even from the grave, is bizarre in itself.

    One does not have to want to practice what he did, or approve of what he did, or anything like that, to think that the man was a unique example of a human being, and want to know more about him. Thousands of people world wide study him, are fascinated with him, and admire certain things about him – some of them even German – but the vast majority would not, and do not want to repeat his acts.

    Hitler was an anomaly, but he was also an example of how, in the right circumstances, those who make bizarre claims about other people, can go unchecked, and continue to fool large numbers of people into doing things that they would never ever considered themselves capable of doing.

    Lets not start repeating his same mistakes, by trying to turn people into believers by the use of fear – because that is exactly what Hitler did.

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  89. infused (652 comments) says:

    I don’t see anything wrong with it. It’s worth a lot of money. If you are really in to collecting WW2 stuff, then you’d want this, no?

    The rest is just BS. I don’t like .com at all, but this is a beat up.

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  90. edhunter (535 comments) says:

    Mountain meet Mole Hill.

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  91. RightNow (6,968 comments) says:

    Ashley Schaeffer (333 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 9:45 am

    Does this thread count as being Godwinned?

    Yeah it looks like it Godwinned itself.

    I wonder though how many people would have different reactions if it was Colin Craig or a National MP that owned Nazi memorabilia.

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  92. dave53 (87 comments) says:

    Did you ever read the History Now (Canterbury University history journal) article about the Hayward controversy? The evidence of those, or of any official orders is not as strong as I previously thought. In fact the International Red Cross, reported deaths were due to disease and starvation. Similarly, the British Intelligence which had access to German communications noted reports of deaths by disease, hangings & shooting.

    Er, Bob R, that reads lamentably like the kind of drivel promoted by David Irving and all the others who claim there were no gas chambers and all those Jews died of typhus or in the Allied bombings of Dresden and other German cities….

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  93. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    If Winston Peters owned it. No problem.

    But Kim Schmitz is German.

    That is an important distinction.

    It is incumbent on all Germans, from now until the end of time, to revile and repudiate Hitler’s actions in World War II.

    They don’t have the luxury of distance the rest of the us have. For a German, the glorification (or even appreciation of historical significance) of Hitler and the Nazis is an endorsement of their views and methods.

    This is why they can never tell anyone “It was a long time ago, just let it go”.

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  94. KevinH (1,203 comments) says:

    The Internet Party is vague as to the position it occupies within the political spectrum, it is neither left or right i.e.:

    “This is a movement for the freedom of the Internet and technology, for privacy and political reform,” says Kim Dotcom.

    “It is a movement for people who haven’t voted before, who have been disappointed by voting, or who don’t like the political choices on offer.

    “It is a movement for people who care about a digital future, and who want a society that is open, free and fair.”

    and:

    “We’re a breath of fresh air, and a dose of common sense, for a tired and adversarial political system that has lost touch with modern New Zealand and the Internet generation.

    “We’re going to change the election outcome by changing what the election is about. We have strong and effective policies across all areas that will make New Zealand a better place for all.

    It does have that Socialist ring to it but is typical hogwash from a newbie. At the launch party today more details on policy will be released and those policies may or may not be interesting to some people.
    Has Dotcom had talks with Kyle Chapman yet? I’m sure Chapman would be interested.

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  95. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    Maybe someone should just cut to the chase and ask him directly what his thoughts are about Jews and Israel.

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  96. burt (8,199 comments) says:

    Kimble

    He’s spent time with Labour party folk – his answer will depend on who’s he’s talking too !

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  97. burt (8,199 comments) says:

    Judith

    Lets not start repeating his same mistakes, by trying to turn people into believers by the use of fear – because that is exactly what Hitler did.

    It’s his socialist beliefs, we still see it today in “modern day” socialists. The policies of envy… The concepts of ‘if you are not with us you are against us’ and of course the use of propaganda.

    Undoubtedly Hitler was a powerful leader, that might make him fascinating…. It’s not proven by apparently Dotcom referred to him as the greatest German to have ever lived…

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  98. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    @Michael_Parkin

    Dotcom says he has met with 12 mps.

    1. Winston Peters
    2. Russel Norman
    3. Clare Curran
    4. Shane Jones
    5. Hone Harawira

    I don’t know if John Banks counts. It would be interesting to know who the others were.

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  99. Pete George (23,429 comments) says:

    Kim Dotcom has ruled out working with National, saying it reopens the door to discussions with Mana.

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  100. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    @ dave53,

    I hadn’t heard the argument related to Dresden. In relation to gas chambers that debate is around to what use they were for, eg. delousing of bugs and/or homicide. More recently I think Nick Kollerstrom wrote about that in terms of the chemical analysis. The site debate.org had a good argument for and against too which teased out the various points for both sides.

    What is lamentable is more the approach of people who seem to think research on that is a form of thought crime.

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  101. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Bob R/dave53
    Hayward’s ‘research’ was comprehensively debunked. From memory, I think Canterbury University decided in retrospect that his thesis was not of a standard to earn a master’s degree.
    BobR
    A good background on this topic is Deborah Lipstadt’s ‘Denying the Holocaust’. That’s the book David Irving sued her over.

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  102. dave53 (87 comments) says:

    Hayward’s ‘research’ was comprehensively debunked.

    It was indeed Mikenmild.

    Re Dresden, Irving was quoted in a N&S article at one of the times he was stopped from coming to NZ as saying the missing Jews died of typhus in the “labour camps,” in the bombing of Dresden and other cities, and many more did not die but went to Madagascar (an early Nazi plan was to deport Europe’s Jews there, but it did not happen).

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  103. Jack5 (5,007 comments) says:

    The Nazis burned books, not us.

    I wouldn’t want a copy of Mein Kampf with all its ravings (I tried to read it), but can you condemn someone because they own a political (or religious) book?

    I own copies of the Koran, the three volumes (mainly unread) of Marx’s Capital and the Trevor-Roper edited The Goebbels Diaries but surely that doesn’t mean I’m a Muslim, a Communist, or a Nazi.

    Some might say that Dotcom, because he is German, might have to take special care in his reading. As someone who is neither German nor has German ancestry, I think it’s time we moved on. You can’t hold people guilty for their grandparents’ sins. To me, it’s similar to NZ paying for land deals of nearly 200 years ago, and for the black folk of North America and the Caribbean seeking compensation for the appalling treatment of their ancestors one to three centuries ago.

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  104. Jack5 (5,007 comments) says:

    Kimble posted at 12.32:

    It is incumbent on all Germans, from now until the end of time, to revile and repudiate Hitler’s actions in World War II.

    Would Kimble require future generations of Israelis in perpetuity to apologise to Palestinians? The English to the Irish? The Poles, too, to Jews? New Zealanders to Maori? Taranaki Maori to Chatham Islanders?

    If you don’t move on, you end up like the stifled, poor, feud-ridden backwaters of the Caucasus and the old Mafia territories.

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  105. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    We don’t require the French to be sorry about Napoleon, but Hitler is still too recent a menace. But asking Germans to be sorry in perpetuity?

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  106. David Garrett (6,977 comments) says:

    Kimble @ 12.36: Well said. I think it says a great deal that’s good about Germans that near on 70 years after the fact they as a society are still very aware of the need to educate their young about the dreadful atrocities of the Hitler era. (I have met young Germans recently who tell me this is still very much part of the school curriculum).

    I can just buy the “its simply a good investment and part of history” argument about the signed Mein Kampf ….the Sieg Heiling and Nazi salutes at dinner, much more concerning.

    Off topic, but the other thing the Germans do very well is demonstrate that liberal politicians in this country are talking shit when they say “you can’t ban gangs ; no free society has banned organizations”. The Germans come down hard on ANY organization that is remotely Nazi…and when I last looked they were a free society comparable to ours,

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  107. David Garrett (6,977 comments) says:

    Just looked at a few comments which went up when I was writing mine…

    Comparisons between the Nazi era and Napoleon – or Te Rauparaha – are just fatuous. Yes, there have been other and greater genocides before and since…Stalin killed a damn sight more of his own people than Adolf did. The reason the holocaust and surrounding tyrannies and atrocities was so unique is the systematic nature of it; the experimentation to find the “best” and “most scientific” way to kill the most people in the shortest time/for least cost etc. No other tyrannical regime before or since has done that, and THAT is why successive generations of Germans – and the rest of us – need to be well educated about the Nazi regime in all its horror.

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  108. SGA (983 comments) says:

    @Jack5 at 1:49 pm

    I had assumed Kimble’s tongue was firmly in his cheek with some of his earlier comments. Not so?

    Dotcom seems to be an avid war game player as well –
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2090996/Megaupload-CEO-Kim-Dotcom-slumps-No-2-Modern-Warfare-3-player-New-Zealand-arrest.html
    a sign of his closet Nazi-ism, or that he’s just got a bit of a fascination about war in general?

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  109. Ryan Sproull (7,093 comments) says:

    It’s fairly common knowledge that he was the world number one of that game.

    Lots of people have a fascination with war computer games (Battlefield, Call of Duty, Medal of Honour… these are some of the most successful video game series ever made), tabletop wargaming, etc.

    New Zealand, in fact, gave birth to the most successful tabletop World War 2 game in the world: Flames of War. While I’m not one myself, I know many enthusiasts of all ages and half of all genders, and they’re all lovely folk without a fascist or racist bone in their bodies.

    None of them do any of the other stuff Whaleoil alleges Dotcom does, though.

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  110. SHG (375 comments) says:

    The more elderly members of the online FPS community – that is, people who were playing First-Person Shooter games in the nineties – still remember Kim Dotcom, then Kim “Kimble” Schmitz, as a notorious cheat who artificially boosted his scores. E.g.

    http://kotaku.com/5878337/arrested-megaupload-boss-cheated-his-way-to-video-game-glory-opponents-say

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  111. SHG (375 comments) says:

    I love the way that WordPress automatically suggests as a Related Post this article posted to Kiwiblog, linking to a post at Whaleoil, from March 1 this month:

    “What sort of person buys a signed copy of Mein Kampf?”

    That this new Kim Dotcom/Mein Kampf angle has been pre-emptively publicised by Dotcom now, instead of by an opponent after the Internet Party launch and during an election campaign when it would be of most use, suggests to me that he was tipped off by the Whaleoil and Kiwiblog posts of March 1 and he has sensibly decided (or been advised) to front-foot the issue.

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  112. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    ***Hayward’s ‘research’ was comprehensively debunked. From memory, I think Canterbury University decided in retrospect that his thesis was not of a standard to earn a master’s degree.***

    @ mikenmild,

    That’s not correct. Although Hayward did add an addendum. That’s discussed in the History Now article I referred to above.

    “Under pressure, the University appointed an independent Working Party to investigate the claims against the thesis.[6] This committee consisted of retired High Court judge Sir Ian Barker and academics Professor Ann Trotter and Professor Stuart Macintyre to look into the matter and make recommendations.[7] The lengthy report concluded the Hayward thesis was “seriously flawed” and that Hayward “should not have essayed a judgment in such a controversial area…”[8] The report did not recommend withdrawal of the thesis by the University and did not agree with the allegations that Hayward’s argument was racist or motivated by malice. While the opinion that the thesis did not deserve the high marks it received was widely publicized in the media, no fewer than six serving or retired members of the History department persisted in their own judgment that it was a first-class effort.”

    http://www.joelhayward.com/thehistorynowarticle.htm

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  113. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    None of them have the money.

    unfortunately the concept of a pirate party has some allure.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party

    The obese one has destroyed his credibility too much for his forever home to keep him.

    ex close combat / Civ 3 addict.

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  114. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    Would Kimble require future generations of Israelis in perpetuity to apologise to Palestinians? The English to the Irish? The Poles, too, to Jews? New Zealanders to Maori? Taranaki Maori to Chatham Islanders?

    Show me the industrialized murder apparatus those groups set up.

    Human history is replete with interactions leading to murder. But NOTHING on the scale of what the Nazi’s did. Nothing with the abhorrent efficiency that they exhibited.

    If you don’t move on, you end up like the stifled, poor, feud-ridden backwaters of the Caucasus and the old Mafia territories.

    The point was, WE can move on.

    THEY aren’t allowed to.

    The actions Germany took then sullied their reputation to such an extent that every subsequent generation has to denounce, revile, and repudiate those actions lest it be construed that they support them.

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  115. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Thanks Bob, I couldn’t recall all of the details.

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  116. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Kimble, I think that would be elevating anti-Nazism to the status of a religion.

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  117. David Garrett (6,977 comments) says:

    Mikey: That’s just the point…the form of Fascism which was Nazism WAS effectively a religion…but with its all powerful all seeing omnipotent messiah on earth and not in some abstract realm…Just as the mullahs now decree this or that to be “UnIslamic” the Nazi heirarchy denounced any action, thought, or behaviour they didn’t approve of as being “UnGerman” or “not in accord with the tenets of National Socialism”

    Brush up on your 1930’s and 40’s history.

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  118. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Um, I think you may have misread my comment DG. And while I’m more interested in medieval English history, I think I have a good working knowledge of the 1930s and 1940s.

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  119. David Garrett (6,977 comments) says:

    Yes, I picked up that you are referring to ANTI Nazism as being akin to a religion…I suppose my point is that if the demon inhabiting one is bad enough (assuming you are religious) then the exorcism must be just as powerful in its rituals and tenets…

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  120. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    So you would be keen on eternal rituals denouncing Nazism too?

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  121. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    I think it says a great deal that’s good about Germans that near on 70 years after the fact they as a society are still very aware of the need to educate their young about the dreadful atrocities of the Hitler era. (I have met young Germans recently who tell me this is still very much part of the school curriculum).

    Exactly.

    Its not about saying sorry. Its about acknowledging it happened, and making it clear that you think it was bad.

    Everyone else can be given the benefit.

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  122. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “six million” is bullshit. This number comes up again and again regardless of the actual number of people affected.

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  123. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    ***Human history is replete with interactions leading to murder. But NOTHING on the scale of what the Nazi’s did. Nothing with the abhorrent efficiency that they exhibited.***

    How many Kulaks died under Stalin during his purges?

    “The purges affected not only those who openly opposed Stalin, but ordinary people too. During Stalin’s rule of the country over 20 million people were sent to labor camps, where nearly half of them died.”

    http://russiapedia.rt.com/of-russian-origin/stalins-purges/

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  124. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Oh Ugly, the six million figure is pretty well supported. Are you going to add some holocaust denial to your other distinguished contributions here?

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  125. cha (3,933 comments) says:

    Hugo Boss made the snappy wee black numbers worn by the Schultzstaffel, Mr Porsche had his slave labour factories churning out war machines and IBM systems were used to track down every Jew, Gypsy and other unfortunates so that they could be rounded up and loaded into cattle wagons. Bayer made the chemicals used to exterminate millions and the slave workers from Auschwitz and Buchenwald who built electrical switches for Siemens often met their end in a Siemens made gas chamber.

    So anyone who goes about wearing an awfully nice aftershave, drives a Golf, uses run of the mill office supplies, swallows an aspirin or uses mains electricity – you’re all guilty of oh, I don’t know, some fucking thing.
    //

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  126. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild,

    Going back to the History Now article linked above, there are really no comprehensive records available to establish an exact figure. The Encyclopedia of the Arab-Israeli Conflict: A Political, Social, and Military
    History notes that Max Nordau warned at the 1911 Zionist congress that 6 million in Russia and Eastern Europe were in danger if refuge was not created in Israel.

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  127. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Bob
    I found the History Now article to be pretty weak, actually, and I certainly wouldn’t use it as a source for anything factual about the holocaust.

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  128. Weihana (4,496 comments) says:

    David Garrett (4,989 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 2:08 pm

    Off topic, but the other thing the Germans do very well is demonstrate that liberal politicians in this country are talking shit when they say “you can’t ban gangs ; no free society has banned organizations”. The Germans come down hard on ANY organization that is remotely Nazi…and when I last looked they were a free society comparable to ours,

    How do you measure the “freedom” of a society? Are there two boxes, one for free countries and one for not free countries?

    If you hold as a premise that freedom to express Nazism is not a freedom worth keeping, then doesn’t this automatically lead to the conclusion that a society that institutes a prohibition on such will not therefore lose its freedom?

    I’m fairly sure that from tomorrow we could ban Destiny Church and Auckland City would not implode. But is it just in principle and do principles matter? Do we go “Okay, Destiny Church is banned… nope there hasn’t been any slippery slope… every other group is still okay… ergo we are still free”. Is this reasoning valid?

    Further, is it even correct to say that there hasn’t been a slippery slope? How often do we hear complaints about “hate speech” from those who are worried that they may be persecuted for their various prejudices and bigotry? If Nazi’s are banned, why can’t we ban racists and homophobes and [insert other group we don't like]?

    I suppose the other problem is that gangs are hardly comparable to neo-Nazi’s are they? One involves itself in criminal industry, the other is more of a political ideology. So long as considerable funds are available from things like illegal drugs then it seems inevitable that criminal gangs will seek that profit. Moreover, if they are fine to ignore laws that already exist, why do you think adding one more law is going to make such a difference?

    On the other hand maybe Neo-Nazis are like gangs. They are outlawed for sure, but they still exist in Germany:

    The Free German Workers’ Party was founded in 1979 and outlawed in 1995. The Nationalist Front was active during the 1980s. The Volkssozialistische Bewegung Deutschlands/Partei der Arbeit was outlawed in 1982. The National Offensive existed 1990-1992. The German People’s Union was founded in 1987, the German Alternative in 1989, the German League for People and Homeland in 1991

    The currently most successful movement is the National Democratic Party of Germany, notably winning 9.2% in the 2004 state election in Saxony, and winning 1.6% of the nation-wide vote in the 2005 federal elections. In the 2006 Mecklenburg-Vorpommern state election, the NPD received 7.3% of the vote and thus achieved state representation there, as well.[1] The NPD had 5,300 registered party members in 2004.[2] Over the course of 2006, the NPD processed roughly 1,000 party applications to put the membership total at 7,000. The DVU has 8,500 members.[3]

    The total number of potentially right extremist individuals in Germany was estimated by the Verfassungsschutz (Federal German intelligence) to 31,000 as of 2007, of which an estimated 10,000 were classified as potentially violent (gewaltbereit).[4] In 2011, the Verfassungsschutz reported a total of 25,000 right-wing extremists in Germany, including 5,600 neo-Nazis.[5] In the same report, 15.905 crimes committed in 2010 were classified as far-right motivated, compared to 18.750 in 2009; these crimes included 762 acts of violence in 2010 compared to 891 in 2009.[5] While the overall numbers have declined, the Verfassungsschutz says that both the number of neo-Nazis and the potential for violent acts have nevertheless increased, especially among the growing number of Autonome Nationalisten (“Independent Nationalists”) who gradually replace the declining number of Nazi Skinheads.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_right_in_Germany

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  129. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ cha (3,436 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 4:05 pm

    Very good point.

    I find it rather ironic that Hitler created fear against Jews and other cultures, using their extreme wealth, opulence and differing cultural practices as reason to prevent them from having any power, and to be feared by all,

    and here, we have a group of people, using another’s extreme wealth, opulence, and different culture to enlist fear to ensure that person gains no power/votes – but that is alright, because he’s German, and therefore is not allowed to take part in any of the normal things that many of us do.

    My father fought against the very thing that is now being hypocritically applied – shame on Whaleoil, TV3 and anyone else with a finger in this pie. I don’t care if Kim Dotcom sieg hails as a party act, reads Mein Kampf or farts Adolph’s name – he has not in the time he’s lived in New Zealand, demonstrated anything that even comes close to indicating he has the same philosophy as Hitler. The man is in a mixed culture marriage and has children of mixed ethnicity – don’t vote for him by all means, I certainly won’t be, but lets not go down the persecution pathway – if for no other reason but out of respect for those that already fought that fight.

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  130. David Garrett (6,977 comments) says:

    Bob R: You have missed the point. It is well known and accepted – now – that 20 million or so Russians died as a result of Stalinist tyranny. But it was the SYSTEMATIC – in the proper sense of the word – nature of the Nazi killing machine that was unique. First, experiments with “jigs” in which 2, 4, 6, or 8 men stood directly in line to receive one bullet through the back of several heads. When that was deemed “efficient” enough, gas vans which used carbon monoxide poisoning to kill the occupants. When that wasn’t enough, the progression to the gas chambers etc. etc. That, rather than the sheer numbers, is what makes the Nazi actions so chilling.

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  131. RightNow (6,968 comments) says:

    You should boycott kiwiblog in protest

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  132. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    DG
    And the systematic targeting of the victims – Jews, Gypsies etc.

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  133. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    “I do not believe that telling the truth about Jews — even the ugly truths — is something that ‘promotes hatred’ of Jews — at least not among intelligent people” ~ JBR Yant

    http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Jews/Jews-History&ScripturalOriginOfThe6MillionNumber.html

    [Quote 1] Jewish prophecies in the Torah require that 6 million Jews must “vanish” before the state of Israel can be formed. “You shall return minus 6 million.” That’s why Tom Segev, an Israeli historian, declared that the “6 million” is an attempt to transform the Holocaust story into state religion. Those six million, according to prophecy, had to disappear in “burning ovens”, which the judicial version of the Holocaust now authenticates. As a matter of fact, Robert B. Goldmann writes: “. . . without the Holocaust, there would be no Jewish State.” A simple consequence: Given six million Jews gassed at Auschwitz who ended up in the “burning ovens” (the Greek word holocaust means burned offerings), therefore, the prophecies have now been “fulfilled” and Israel can become a “legitimate state”. –Unknown

    [Quote 2] Regarding the ‘six million’ number you should know the following: In the Hebrew text of the Torah prophesies, one can read “you shall return”. In the text the letter “V” or “VAU” is absent, as Hebrew does not have any numbers; the letter V stands for the number 6. Ben Weintraub, a religious scientist, learned from rabbis that the meaning of the missing letter means the number is ‘6 million’. The prophesy then reads: You will return, but with 6 million less. See Ben Weintraub: “The Holocaust Dogma of Judaism”, Cosmo Publishing, Washington 1995, page 3. The missing 6 million must be so before the Jews can return to the Promised Land. Jahweh sees this as a cleaning of the souls of the sinful people. The Jews must, on the return to the Promised Land, be clean — the cleaning shall be done in burning stokes. –A Correspondent

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  134. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    How many Jews do you think died in the holocaust, Ugly?

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  135. UglyTruth (4,551 comments) says:

    Too many, Mikenmild.

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  136. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    So anyone who goes about wearing an awfully nice aftershave, drives a Golf, uses run of the mill office supplies, swallows an aspirin or uses mains electricity – you’re all guilty of oh, I don’t know, some fucking thing.

    What does that have to do with a German who sought out and bought a signed copy of Mein Kampf?

    It is fair to question whether someone who owns Nazi paraphernalia shares their ideology.

    And it is more than fair to question whether a German who owns Nazi paraphernalia shares the ideology of his ancestors.

    Any German that owns Nazi paraphernalia should be prepared for other people to presume they have embraced the Nazi ideology. Anyone who thinks that a German owning Nazi paraphernalia should be able to expect the same presumption of innocence as would be afforded a Museum curator in South Korea who did the same, for example, is living in a fantasy world.

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  137. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    You still seem a bit fixated on the 6 million though, Ugly. Are you sure there’s nothing you want to get off your chest about the Jews?

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  138. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    ***Bob R: You have missed the point. It is well known and accepted – now – that 20 million or so Russians died as a result of Stalinist tyranny. But it was the SYSTEMATIC – in the proper sense of the word – nature of the Nazi killing machine that was unique. First, experiments with “jigs” in which 2, 4, 6, or 8 men stood directly in line to receive one bullet through the back of several heads. When that was deemed “efficient” enough, gas vans which used carbon monoxide poisoning to kill the occupants. When that wasn’t enough, the progression to the gas chambers etc. etc.***

    @ DG,

    I appreciate that, but as noted above, I think the qustion of what gas chambers were used for it not as convincing as some seem to suggest.

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  139. Judith (8,532 comments) says:

    @ Kimble (4,074 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 4:54 pm

    So based on that, I guess we will be cancelling Kate and William’s visit. German connections and all that – brother that dressed as a Nazi and ‘sieg hailed’ – and castles full of paintings of German relatives that colluded with Nazi, – not to mention the memorabilia …. nope – off with their heads if they dare to come here eh?

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  140. SHG (375 comments) says:

    IIRC the problem of efficiency was that the soldiers doing the shooting eventually lost their fucking minds, because normal human beings aren’t psychologically equipped to stand in front of a trench shooting men, women, and children in the back of the head for twelve hours a day. Morale among the soldiers was suffering, which was affecting unit performance, which was a problem of “efficiency”.

    The problem was “how do we kill all these people without making anyone upset while we do it?”

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  141. Eisenhower (137 comments) says:

    I appreciate that, but as noted above, I think the qustion of what gas chambers were used for it not as convincing as some seem to suggest.

    Really Bob? That’s quite some denial you’ve got there. So what do you…nah, forget it. Lets get it from those who were there, and weren’t victims –

    Oberscharführer Josef Klehr has said that anyone who maintains that nobody was gassed at Auschwitz must be “crazy or on the wrong”. SS-Unterscharführer Oswald Kaduk has stated that he does not consider those who maintain such a thing as normal people. Hearing about Holocaust denial compelled former SS-Rottenführer Oskar Gröning to publicly speak about what he witnessed at Auschwitz, and denounce Holocaust deniers, stating:
    “I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened because I was there.”

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  142. cha (3,933 comments) says:

    A perfectly normal company.

    http://www.topfundsoehne.de/cms-www/index.php?id=82&l=1

    http://www.topfundsoehne.de/cms-www/index.php?id=120&l=1

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  143. SGA (983 comments) says:

    SHG at 5:36 pm

    IIRC the problem of efficiency was that the soldiers doing the shooting eventually lost their fucking minds, because normal human beings aren’t psychologically equipped to stand in front of a trench shooting men, women, and children in the back of the head for twelve hours a day.

    Well, it’s reassuring to know that there aren’t too many like this charming character around –
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasili_Blokhin

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  144. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    So based on that, I guess we will be cancelling Kate and William’s visit. German connections and all that – brother that dressed as a Nazi and ‘sieg hailed’ – and castles full of paintings of German relatives that colluded with Nazi, – not to mention the memorabilia …. nope – off with their heads if they dare to come here eh?

    You can’t choose your family. Their brother did something stupid, and their relatives were German. That has nothing to do with what I am talking about. For starters, they aren’t German.

    I have nothing against Germans per se. Just those that think Hitler was right. And I reserve the right to judge those Germans who act as if they think Hitler was right by those actions.

    Like I said, everyone else gets the presumption of innocence. But the Nazis did such a great job tainting their national character that Germans can’t rely on the same presumption.

    The rules are different for the Germans, because Hitler. That’s just the reality.

    Just like the rules are different for Crackers in the US, because slavery.

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  145. Viking2 (11,367 comments) says:

    Kimble (4,074 comments) says:
    March 27th, 2014 at 12:36 pm

    If Winston Peters owned it. No problem.

    But Kim Schmitz is German.
    ================================
    Isn’t the man Finnish rather than German?

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  146. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Does anyone else see the Irony and Hypocrisy

    about making a Big Deal about this “Book”

    while campaigning to remove the “Union Jack” from our flag? undemocratically?

    Seriously Adolph Hitler would be laughing in his grave at your all

    He would “probably” agree with you on that one?

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  147. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Nice that you’re not shouting Ben, but you’ve got this hopelessly wrong. Changing the flag is not the same as being a Nazi. And the PM has set out a democratic process to look at the flag.

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  148. goldnkiwi (1,261 comments) says:

    Isn’t it heil not hail?

    David Garrett (4,990 comments) says:

    March 27th, 2014 at 2:19 pm

    And such meticulously documented detail. A bit hard to deny on ‘the papers’. Other committed atrocities not documented so much, so harder to quantify and thus compare?

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  149. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Nice that you’re not shouting Ben, but you’ve got this hopelessly wrong. Changing the flag is not the same as being a Nazi. And the PM has set out a democratic process to look at the flag.

    HE HAS NOT – YOU ARE AN IDIOT

    BULL SH*T – BULLLLLLLLL SH*T

    BULLLLLLLLLL SH*T

    WHAT IS HIS PROCESS A CHICKEN POOP HALF BAKED “COOKED REFERENDUM

    WITH A HALF A R SEED PATHETIC DESIGN COMPETITION

    YOUR DESIGN PROCESS HAS STARTED BASED ON NO CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENTS

    SHOW ME HIS NEW CONSTITUTION LIAR?

    IF YOU KNOW SO MUCH LIAR

    Yeah LIKE
    the “democratic process” used to APOPT AND RAM the FLAG

    of MAORI fascism DOWN EVERYONES THROATS

    WHO WAS CONSULTED ON THAT LIAR

    WHEN WERE ALL THE PEOPLE OF NZ CONSULTED ON THAT LIAR

    WHO VOTED FOR THAT – LIAR

    SHOW ME WHO VOTED FOR THE ???

    ‘absolute sovereignty’ FLAG – YOU LIAR

    ALL OF MAORI WERE NOT EVEN CONSULTED ON THAT

    THAT IS HOW ARROGANT AND DENSE YOU ARE
    A MAORI FLAG WAS NOT EVEN PUT TO ALL MAORI

    FOR CONSULTATION
    LIAR

    Yeah a Natzi with Mein Kamp

    and a so callled Kiwi of Jewish extraction

    removing the “UNION JACK”

    WE CAN DO WITH OUT EITHER OF THEM

    IF stopping the Holocaust was as “Important” as you all say (AND IT WAS)

    THE UNION JACK WOULD STAY

    SO GO TO HELL FASCISTS ROT IN HELL

    YOU ARE AN EMBARRASSMENT TO THE CIVILISED WORLD
    A JOKE A FARCE A LIE

    YOUR COUNTRY IS NOW A BACKWARD JOKE

    AND YOU WILL GET THE SYMBOLS YOU DESERVE

    YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT YOUR OWN COUNTRY

    SO DO IT A FAVOUR AND LEAVE
    AND DO NOT GO TO AUS
    IF PROTECTING JEWS WAS IMPORTANT (AND IT IS)

    YOU WOULD KNOW YOUR OWN HISTORY

    AND UNDERSTAND WHAT OUR SYMBOLS STAND FOR

    INSTEAD OF
    CONVENIENTLY IGNORING YOUR OWN HISTORY

    BUT YOU DO YOU HAVE AND YOU WILL BECAUSE
    YOU ARE
    LIARS

    WHY DON”T YOU EDUCATE JOHN KEY ON THE HOLOCAUST AND HOW MANY
    NEW ZEALANDERS DIED TO HELP PREVENT IT

    BEFORE YOU GIVE ME A LECTURE YOU LIARS

    IF THEY ARE ALLOWED TO CHANGE THE FLAG ON A WHIM
    THEY WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING ELSE AND

    AND YOU HAD BETTER PREPARE FOR WHAT IS COMING

    YOU DO NOT STAND A CHANCE

    BECAUSE YOUR COUNTRY IGNORED A GENOCIDE IN YOUR LIFE TIME

    You are so thick you don’t realise what happened to the jews
    was planned to happen in NZ

    It didn’t happen because it was prevented

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  150. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Time for a lie down now, Ben.

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  151. Nostalgia-NZ (5,097 comments) says:

    mikenmild is stalking bending ben,

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  152. SGA (983 comments) says:

    Ben Dover at 8:42 pm

    Why don’t you educate John Key on the Holocaust and how many New Zealanders died to help prevent it

    (shouting removed for the sake of clarity)

    Given that the PM’s mother was an Austrian Jew who fled Austria after the Nazis took over, I’m sure he is very aware of such matters.

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  153. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    NNZ
    I’m hoping that when he stops shouting he will be as much fun to talk with as Ugly.

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  154. Nostalgia-NZ (5,097 comments) says:

    Classic voice mm, welcome addition. I just wear ear muffs.

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  155. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Wonderful
    my family was fighting Adolph when he was a dispatch runner
    it did not start with him and it has not ended either

    Looks like GERMANS and JEWS have learned nothing from History then

    if that is the case why is he HELL BENT
    on

    WIPING HIS A R S E on our flag

    YOUR Real PROBLEMS
    come out of the

    P A C I F I C

    the Japanese were going to EXTERMINATE YOU ALL
    much worse than the GENOCIDE in Timor that you all Ignored

    SINCE 1945 nothing much has been don to Make the Pacific more secure

    and YOU and JOHN KEY – and what ever his name is MR DOT BS

    live in GAGA Land
    because you think it can’t and will not happen again

    WRONG

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  156. mikenmild (11,246 comments) says:

    Will it be the Chinks or Japs coming for us next time, Ben?

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  157. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    HANDS OFF OUR FLAG SCUM BAGS

    YOU DON’T HAVE YOUR FAKE DEMOCRATIC MANDATE YET

    CALL YOUR SELF FASCIST

    “SHITZERLAND” OF THE SOUTH PACIFIC

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  158. griffith (1,111 comments) says:

    I would like to see ben taken on by the red blather

    He seems an ideal companion, apprentice, and all round lackey for the Great El Guava. Ben Dover has all indications of a successful career in minoning ahead .But please FFS nursey change the batteries on his hearing aid.

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  159. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    You might as well take

    Take the southern Cross off as well
    while you are at it

    <

    Southern Cross

    First Marine Division adopted that in Melbourne after saving your Country

    YOU are now a PATHETIC LITTLE JOKE of a PRETEND NATION

    it means democracy in Aus and the US

    but like any other symbol in NZ

    IT MEANS NOTHING

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  160. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Will it be the Chinks or Japs coming for us next time, Ben?

    It could be anyone because if you have not noticed

    ALL OF ASIA is RE ARMING

    Pay particular attention in the 2030’s

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  161. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Did you notice the recent Genocide in East Timor?

    Quite sad the Timorese fought with Australia against Japan

    have a read on Sparrow Force and you may get the Tragedy of it all

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  162. Jack5 (5,007 comments) says:

    I have a problem with Kimble’s eternal damnation of the Germans for the genocide of Jews in World War 2.

    Kimble wrote:

    It is incumbent on all Germans, from now until the end of time, to revile and repudiate Hitler’s actions in World War II.

    He went on to elaborate in response to a point about other atrocities and genocides:

    Show me the industrialized murder apparatus those groups set up.

    Human history is replete with interactions leading to murder. But NOTHING on the scale of what the Nazi’s did. Nothing with the abhorrent efficiency that they exhibited.

    Here we have the way genocide is committed made the central issue.

    Mao’s Great Leap Forward leading to the starvation of tens of millions of people and cannibalism by others, Pol Pot’s brutal slaughter of as many as two million Cambodians, and the more recent brutal butchery of up to a million Rwandans are all comparable with the Nazis’ appalling murder of millions of Jews in World War 2. So was the genocide of Armenians by Turkey during or shortly after the First World War.

    But to the point. Perhaps Japanese think the death of around 200,000 people in Nagasaki and Hiroshima was done with “abhorrent efficiency”. If the callous measure of “industrial effiency” is how we are to rank atrocities, Kimble, the atomic bombing surely heads the list.

    A philosopher’s discussion of the issue covers the complexity of trans-generation responsibility. Go to:
    http://www.philosophersbeard.org/2010/12/national-responsibility-and-historic.html

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  163. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    @ Eisenhower,

    Thanks for the references. My misgivings about the extent that was used is due to factors like the forensics and communications intercepted by British intelligence from 1942 onwards reporting inmate totals – there is reference to typhus outbreaks, prisoners being shot trying to escape, prisoners being hung, but no reference to gas (see British Intelligence in World War Two, HMSO, 1981 F.Hinsey Ed., Vol. II, p.673). Then you have a pathologist like Charles Larson, who performed autopsies as part of the US War Crimes Investigation Team, and later reported there were no cases of poisoning found.

    Regardless, I think we can agree that what happened was evil.

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  164. Kimble (4,443 comments) says:

    You seem to think that any situation where a lot of people died makes it automatically the same as the Holocaust. Ridiculously simplistic and wrong. The Holocaust wasnt just like all the other cases of humans killing a lot of other humans, and shouldnt be dismissed as such, as was happening.

    It doesnt matter what other examples of humans killing humans you bring up. Its simply not relevant. Germans did a very bad thing in the 1930’s and 40’s. They cannot now expunge that from their history, and to their credit they arent trying to. They are tainted by association with it even now and will be for a very long time.

    So when a German buys Nazi memorabilia, it is different to when someone else does. And it is more likely, and more fair, for an observer to presume that they are doing so because they follow the Nazi ideology. That’s just the way it is.

    I am not saying that the current generation of Germans are responsible for the Holocaust. You need to go back and read what I actually wrote. They just have to be more careful about appearing to admire and idolize the perpetrators.

    A member of the British royal family can dress up as Hitler and he is just being a twat. Angela Merkel’s son dresses up as Hitler and it is going to be entirely different.

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  165. Scott1 (506 comments) says:

    Dotcom is married to a Philippe girl and from everything I’ve read it is not the sort of relationship a NAZI would have, in fact an old school NAZI would want to punch him for it. So I’m finding it hard to believe what is being said here.

    Hitler was the “greatest German” in the sense that he is the one history remembers making his stuff highly collectible in the sense that one might collect any such item. So I think that could easily be nothing.

    But the chants seem like a weird thing to do. i’m surprised his wife would not have found that a bit uncomfortable. If that occurred, then that is the main point here. But still I would be forced to think that it was more nuanced than that he is just a NAZI…

    As to the recent discussion above – I think Germans cannot have a racial obligation to restrict their own freedom because their ancestors killed a lot of people – that is just nonsense – there are no racial obligations.

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  166. stephieboy (2,678 comments) says:

    Eisenhower,

    Thanks for your quote and its worth repeating for the nay saying holocaust deniers,

    “Oberscharführer Josef Klehr has said that anyone who maintains that nobody was gassed at Auschwitz must be “crazy or on the wrong”. SS-Unterscharführer Oswald Kaduk has stated that he does not consider those who maintain such a thing as normal people. Hearing about Holocaust denial compelled former SS-Rottenführer Oskar Gröning to publicly speak about what he witnessed at Auschwitz, and denounce Holocaust deniers, stating:
    “I would like you to believe me. I saw the gas chambers. I saw the crematoria. I saw the open fires. I was on the ramp when the selections took place. I would like you to believe that these atrocities happened because I was there.”

    But I’d have to say there is nothing per se about collecting a signed copy of Mein Kampf and it would be rather harmless event with a bona fide collector.But the problem with someone like Dot.com, it all comes down to perceptions IMO

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  167. ShawnLH (4,481 comments) says:

    Ben,

    turn the caps lock off.

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  168. Bob R (1,360 comments) says:

    @ stephieboy,

    Maybe, although given the manner in which confessions were extracted from German witnesses for the war crimes trials (see Judge Edward L. Van Roden’s report for an example – major testicle damage was one common finding), I take those confessions with a grain of salt.

    I think anyone who reads more about the forensics, Red Cross records, British Intelligence interceptions, death registers released by the Soviets in the late 80’s, can’t help but wonder whether a large number of deaths were due to disease & malnutrion, and the shootings by the Einsatzgruppen.

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  169. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    NEIN

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  170. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Utter nonsense, a nazi wouldn’t marry an asian girl.

    QUITE RIGHT –

    NO a Natzi would make friends with a Bunch of sword carrying beheading cannibal asians
    and send them in the general direction of AUstralia and NZ after promising land to Italians
    with the intention of carrying out a plan of

    COMPLETE – GENOCIDE

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  171. stephieboy (2,678 comments) says:

    Bob, you forgot to mention the extermination centers of Treblinka , Belzec, Sobibor etc.All well attested to by Franz Stangl, the Commandant of Treblinka who didn’t need any prompting from alleged torturers about the liquidations/ murders that. went on there and elsewhere .

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