Fran on China

March 23rd, 2014 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

Fran O’Sullivan writes:

John Key has firmly put his personal stamp on the New Zealand- relationship by forging a “trusted partner” status with Chinese President Xi Jinping.

Xi heralded the co-operation between China and New Zealand as “pioneering and exemplary”, saying he believed Key’s tour would instil new vitality into the bilateral relationship.

The Chinese President not only made sure New Zealand media were present for all of his reassuring opening remarks at the onset of the two leaders’ bilateral meeting at the Great Hall of the People, but he also welcomed Key and his officials “as family” to a rare private dinner.

Pretty good to be on such good terms with the President of our largest trading partner.

Key relates that Xi placed great store on his decision to go to China and offer explanations for the fiasco and the steps that our Government has taken to ensure there is no repeat. “You did the right thing by coming up,” Xi told Key. This move had “built trust” into the relationship.

The upshot was Xi’s decision to elevate the so-called apology tour into a full-scale official visit complete with a series of deliverables like announcing direct convertibility of the New Zealand dollar with the renminbi.

But Key’s biggest takeaway was securing a commitment from Xi to set a new joint goal of $30 billion for bilateral trade by 2020.

The significance of the commitment has possibly been under-sold.

From the NZ side, it is a statement of good intention. However the NZ Government has little influence on decisions made by individual NZ importers and exporters. They will go where the money is or goods are.

However in China, the Government has far more influence. When the Chinese President says he wants an extra $15 billion of trade with NZ in the next six years, then many Chinese companies will pay heed to that and NZ companies become preferred suppliers.

That statement by President Xi probably means more to NZ exporters than any domestic policy in NZ.

Here’s the thing: New Zealand exporters are scathing of the Opposition’s timing of the revelations. Beijing expats retain deep suspicions that in the first place, some “low-level” Foreign Affairs official leaked details of Cabinet minister Judith Collins’ off-schedule meetings with Stone Shi’s in October, and that the Opposition sat on the issue until the eve of the Prime Minister’s China trip to inflict maximum political damage while he was overseas.

Politics ahead of country. The issue is quite legitimate, but the timing was done to try and sabotage the visit. Fortunately for NZ exporters, they did not succeed.

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70 Responses to “Fran on China”

  1. Fentex (974 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  2. Hugh Pavletich (217 comments) says:

    David … that certainly is a very rosy perspective.

    Are you aware of the massive economic problems in China and New Zealand’s vulnerability ?

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  3. Matthew Hooton (131 comments) says:

    To be balanced, David, I think you ought to have pointed out that Rod Oram predicted on Radio NZ Nine to Noon that Key’s trip would be a disaster, and was able to report in today’s Sunday Star Times that it was in fact a disaster.

    [DPF: Maybe the column was written in advance!]

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  4. RF (1,397 comments) says:

    Jesus wept. Who believes anything that Oram writes. He is so far to the left his left leg is shorter than his right.

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  5. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    The fault lies with Collins, not those who hold her to account for her responsibilities.

    I agree. This shoot the messenger carry on is ridiculous, and also hypocritical because if the roles were reversed and this was another politician and political party, the messenger would be praised for their actions.

    If Collins had not acted in the manner she did, there would be no story.

    Having said that, when is the political debate actually going to turn towards the policies each party is promoting, to what they intend to offer NZ for the future, and how they intend to go about it?

    From what we have seen so far, no one can actually do that – all they can do is point out faults in each other on a personal level – how can that ‘run’ a country?.

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  6. RF (1,397 comments) says:

    Judith. BS. Labour are the negative party concentrating on playing the man / woman rather than promoting their policies. Thats if they have any.

    Its sad that their actions trying to score cheap points could impact on our countries future.

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  7. Simon (723 comments) says:

    Preferred supplier. Yeah right. Wank on. NZ has nothing in common with China to deserve a no strings attached preferred status.

    Trying to spin this as John Key’s personal magnetism. How fucking stupid to you have to be to read the herald or believe this shit.

    NZ to become vassal of China. China will accept any price in the medium term and in time NZ business selling into China will become uncompetive internationally and then China will start lowing the price paid.

    The good news is that China is on the brink of economic crash due to the usefulness of its massive ponzi money printing rapidly coming to an end. It remains to see the chinese govt reasponse to the crash is either Korea style or Japan style.

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  8. Ross12 (1,425 comments) says:

    Did Oram go on the trip as part of the media gang ?

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  9. hj (7,011 comments) says:

    John Chi. He should live at Flat Bush since that’s the NZ he’s created.

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  10. Oskar (34 comments) says:

    “Beijing expats retain deep suspicions that in the first place, some “low-level” Foreign Affairs official leaked details of Cabinet minister Judith Collins’ off-schedule meetings with Stone Shi’s Oravida”

    MFAT does have form for leaking to Labour – witness the supposed “gone by lunchtime” comment by Don Brash and “Person A” leaks to Phil Goff re MFAT restructuring.

    I would imagine that National politicians in particular as well as exporters will be more wary on what they tell MFAT as they will be uncertain as to whether it will be used for some domestic political purpose. This would be a pity as my experience of MFAT staff overseas has generally been positive.

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  11. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ RF (1,102 comments) says:
    March 23rd, 2014 at 9:50 am

    As I said before – if Collins had done nothing wrong, there would have been nothing for them to highlight – would there?

    Again you shoot the messenger – which yes, I acknowledge is being ‘opportunist’ – but come on – are you saying that National has NEVER ever done the same? Would never ever do the same if they found a Labour/Green/NZ First politician in the same circumstances?

    Take off the blind fold – they are all as bad as each other – how’s about each team starts concentrating on what is good about themselves – this shyte has to stop – its dragging our politics and our country down to the darkest depths.

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  12. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    PEOPLE ARE ALLOWED TO SAY WHAT THEY LIKE WHEN THEY LIKE IN NZ

    IT IS NOT COMMUNIST CHINA OR NATZI GERMANY

    IF THE OPPOSITION QUESTIONED A MEETING

    THAT IS THEIR JOB IF YOU DO NOT LIKE THE TIMING GO LIVE IN NATZI GERMANY
    OF COMMUNIST CHINA

    THIS IS LAP DOG REPORTING

    I THINK THE OPPOSITION ARE PRETTY WEAK
    TO RAISE A NON ISSUE

    KEY SHOULD BE ASKING WHY A NAVAL VESSEL WAS SENT ON AN UNPLANNED
    EXERCISE NEAR AUSTRALIA

    WHEN ALL THEY DID WAS

    ASK A QUESTION ABOUT A NO FLY ZONE

    [DPF: Stop trolling and ranting - 20 demerits]

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  13. adze (2,126 comments) says:

    To be balanced, David, I think you ought to have pointed out that Rod Oram predicted on Radio NZ Nine to Noon that Key’s trip would be a disaster, and was able to report in today’s Sunday Star Times that it was in fact a disaster.

    Seriously, I have never heard Rod Oram say a single positive thing about the government. Is he partisan? What’s his bag anyway?

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  14. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,903 comments) says:

    ” Fortunately for NZ exporters, they did not succeed.”

    Is there anything, just one tiny thing, in which this opposition HAS succeeded?

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  15. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    • Labour and the Greens propose electricity policy to undermine partial asset sales and the return to taxpayers.
    • the Opposition sat on the [Oravida] issue until the eve of the Prime Minister’s China trip to inflict maximum political damage while he was overseas.

    How many instances of traitorous sabotage must the Opposition perform before they are seen as acting totally in their own self-interest and fuck the country which they expect to vote for them?

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  16. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    I WOULD NOT CLASSIFY THAT ARTICLE AS

    ????? JOURNALISM ? ?

    YOU ARE KIDDING RIGHT – WHO ARE YOU PEOPLE TRYING TO KID?

    CHINA does not need CAMG to do much when (IT APPEAR QUITE BLATANTLY)
    that they have YOU and the NZ Herald working on their behalf?

    They certainly don’t need “Andrea Yu” to report for them when they already have
    bias and unquestioning subservience everywhere you look?

    Down the Fake Journalism Rabbit Hole with Andrea Yu and CAMG Media
    http://jamestgriffiths.com/2013/05/12/down-the-fake-journalism-rabbit-hole-with-andrea-yu-and-camg-media/
    <
    So why does this matter?

    It matters because Cannon and Yu/Hodgkinson are presenting their organisation as a journalistic one. In doing so they try to borrow the legitimacy of real journalism to hide their own brand of sleazy public relations work for the CPC. While she was asking questions at Party press conferences, or answering questions herself when she was interviewed by CCTV, Yu never revealed that she was a PR flack, deliberately placed in the room to provide soft questions for soft politicians.

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-11-14/politburo-revealed-as-mysterious-australian/4372186?section=australianetworknews

    China uses mysterious Australian to rig Congress coverage
    Updated Sun 18 Nov 2012, 5:33pm AEDT

    Tomorrow in Beijing will see the dawning of a new era, when the Politburo Standing Committee reveals itself to the world. There's been much about this Congress that could fairly be described as really just a piece of theatre, including the role of a mysterious 'journalist' from Australia who's been thrust into the limelight.

    http://beijingcream.com/2012/11/woman-of-the-hour-andrea-yu-is-actually-andrea-hodgkinson-magazine-cover-girl/

    MORE SERIOUS DISCUSSION FROM THE LAND OF

    WU WU AND GAGA

    I take everything you say abouuuut Chinnna
    with a grain of milk powder

    JUST SAY WHAT THEY PAY YOU TO SAY

    PEOPLE ARE GOING TO MAKE A KILLIN G$$$$ OUT OF KEYSS VISIT
    $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

    SO WHAT ARE YOU WORRIED ABOUT
    SELF INTEREST IS THE ONLY HORSE RUNNING

    Are you concerned it all might turn to c r a p one day

    GET READY

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  17. Fisiani (1,039 comments) says:

    Start taking your medications again Ben.

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  18. Sofia (857 comments) says:

    Someone should BEN DOVER and kiss it Goodbye

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  19. RF (1,397 comments) says:

    Has the Standard site crashed again ?

    Noticed that we are being trolled by aliens with 8 fingers on each hand. That could explain the bold caps.

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  20. wiseowl (893 comments) says:

    So we can trade currency with China now.

    China fixes their currency in relation to the US dollar? Our dollar floats .

    Can some financial wiz comment on this part of the great agreement?

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  21. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    Hat off to JK..he’s done a huge job , congratulations. You know its good when all the lefty loons ( judith and co ) start sulking and blowing hot air about ..heh suck it up loons. NZ’s on a win.

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  22. dime (9,972 comments) says:

    Wow, a china/jk post really brings out a pack of miserable pricks. Wah wah wah jk is bad wah wah someone drank a glass of milk wah wah give me back my fwag

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  23. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Does Fran wear Rose tinted glasses?

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  24. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Start taking your medications again Ben.

    NO YOu NEED TO POST ANOTHER HIDEOUS FLAG DESIGN

    and back it up with some obtuse logic

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  25. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    Xi heralded the co-operation between China and New Zealand as “pioneering and exemplary”, saying he believed Key’s tour would instil new vitality into the bilateral relationship.

    Which essentially means the Chinese kleptocracy is reassured it won’t face any inconvenient ethical scruples from Key’s administration. Which is in turn unsurprising, because there’s never been a National PM who didn’t get on well with corrupt authoritarians. However, it’s not obvious why citizens of NZ should be pleased that the leaders of places where corruption and influence-peddling are the norm are looking on NZ’s leaders as kindred spirits. Personally, I find that anything but pleasing.

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  26. adamsmith1922 (890 comments) says:

    Is Ben Dover Penny Bright in drag?

    Or given his/her capital incontinence perhaps a school teacher!

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  27. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Psycho
    Compare and contrast John Key and Helen Clark in their approach to relations with China. I’d be surprised if you could point to any substantial differences.

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  28. dirty harry (489 comments) says:

    ” by forging a “trusted partner” status with Chinese President Xi Jinping.”

    ” What the fucks this Robertson !? ” I thought your Collins smokescreen was supposed to stop all this ”

    ” Duh..sorry leader , JK’s kicked our arses again ”

    ” Noooooooooooooooooooooo…”

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  29. Psycho Milt (2,412 comments) says:

    Compare and contrast John Key and Helen Clark in their approach to relations with China. I’d be surprised if you could point to any substantial differences

    Aw, you’re ruining it. It’s true, Key has no “special relationship” with the Chinese leadership other than in the minds of fangirls like Fran and propaganda distributors like DPF. However, it’s certainly also true that Nat MPs are a lot more receptive to what you might call the Chinese way of doing business, and I think they should get the appropriate recognition for it.

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  30. Nostalgia-NZ (5,202 comments) says:

    Oram seems to make it all or nothing, if it’s his argument that transparency should be the norm then he’s right. It’s common sense that the books on product safety and endorsement should be open, I doubt Key is overlooking that because as Oram points out it might otherwise lead to a trading disaster. That’s the challenge a transparent system of product safety running along side our food exports in particular so as events happen, as they invariably may, the watchdog has the ability to respond quickly and efficiency and hopefully along a pathway that is already established in the case of a particular ‘event’ whatever it might be. NZ needs to be world class in this area it’s in our interests, transparency and education of those using the systems is critical to maintain and build exports markets – I doubt Key thinks otherwise.

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  31. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Or is Key another “useful idiot” of the Communists, joining H.G. Wells, Bernard Shaw, and Doris Lessing, among others?

    Re Wise Owl’s 10.45am query about inter-trading currency: the agreement with NZ is trivial in economic effect, and will be one of those 0.00X factors in costs of exporters.

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  32. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    Matthew Hooton in his 9.17 post indirectly joins the support for John Ki’s diplomacy with China by drawing attention to the column of the leftie business commentator, Rod Oram.

    Would this be the Matthew Hooton who pops up in the Hooerald article yesterday under the headline “Weeds choke $70m dream”. This reports on the Chinese businessman, Donghua Liu, who the newspaper says was “granted citizenship against official advice because of the “potential benefits” of his investment.

    John Ki and Maurice William-Sung joined Liu when he opened the $3.5 million refurbishment of the Boulevard Hotel ready for the Rugby World Cup. Nearly three years later, says the Hooerald, what was to be a four-star hotel is a $400-a-week accommodation lodge and 20,000sq m behind it lies empty.

    The newspaper says:

    Liu hired consultancy group Exceltium, run by political consultant Matthew Hooton, to lobby the Government over the business immigration rules.

    Matthew Hooton, who I understand is a professional lobbyist — a “political consultant” — gets a weekly platform with a Labour veteran, on taxpayer-funded national radio. Matthew please talk about Liu in the programme in the coming week.

    http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11224055

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  33. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Awesome well done JK
    Remember if there are questions to be asked
    we will send and Australian Woman

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  34. Paulus (2,627 comments) says:

    I assume with Rod Oram piping up at strange times he needs the profile to get a place on Labour’s list.
    After all he is and talks is crap like the rest of his mates prognostications.
    I know that when Oram says anything I can do the opposite and be right.
    His problem is that he cannot get a real job as nobody will have him – except as a Labour political advisor – and they take notice of him ?

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  35. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    What is the Difference between the chinese custom of
    removing prisoners organs with out permission and selling them

    and the old Maori tradition of trading Mokomai
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Robley_with_mokomokai_collection_2.jpg

    http://www.radiolive.co.nz/A-special-moko-for-John-Key/tabid/815/articleID/29331/Default.aspx

    China and NZ have so much in common
    and cannibalism is alive and well

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  36. prosper (164 comments) says:

    John Key is doing an incredible job. Golf with one President and dinner with another. I can think of no other PM that has achieved this. This is very good for NZ on all sorts of levels. However Ben Dover has a point we need to ride the wave with China but have a plan B because the Chinese will lower the boom at some stage as they have with the Australian minerals.

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  37. tvb (4,421 comments) says:

    MFAT does have form for leaking to the Opposition as the Rebstock inquiry revealed. I assume McCully has full political control over the Department and things have gone very quiet. Presumably that political element has been removed. I think you are harsh when you say Labour are trying to sabotage the visit. Or it is more like trying to minimise any political uplift for John Key. I guess that is legit politics. I assume national has to counter that which I assume you are doing.

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  38. OneTrack (3,092 comments) says:

    Psycho – “However, it’s certainly also true that Nat MPs are a lot more receptive to what you might call the Chinese way of doing business,.. ”

    Got any real examples of what you are suggesting?

    And what is Labour’s approach to China going to be – to stop selling logs to them just so that we have to make tables here? And are any Labour MPs going to refuse to go to dinner with their Chinese hosts because they might get offered a glass of milk or there might be some unapproved person also invited? Will they be vetting the invitation list outside the restaurant?

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  39. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “Or is Key another “useful idiot” of the Communists, joining H.G. Wells, Bernard Shaw, and Doris Lessing, among others?”

    China ceased being a communist system a long time ago. It is better described as authoritarian nationalist.

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  40. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The reality is that National and Labour have exactly the same approach to doing business with China.

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  41. OneTrack (3,092 comments) says:

    tvb – so it’s ok for the hard left to sabotage the visit of the prime minister of New Zealand to one of our largest trading partners because all they are doing is “minimising any poltical uplift”. Maybe, just maybe, they could have waited until Key returned to NZ?

    I’ll stick to the sabotage theory – if it looks like, a duck, sounds like a duck and smells like a duck, it’s probably a duck.

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  42. OneTrack (3,092 comments) says:

    The reality is that National 2014 and Labour pre-2008 had a similar approach to doing business with China. fify.

    Who cares. What will be the approach of new hard-left Labour under Mr Cunliffe, in their coalition with the anti-Asian greens and the anti everybody except Maori, Mana?

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  43. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Yes mm has it right. The reality is that both Labour and National have the same policy of dealing with China. Which is good, as trade with China is to our benefit.

    Of course it would be vastly better if it was genuine free trade rather than trade between States, but one step at a time.

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  44. BeeJay (72 comments) says:

    Have been working since 6.00am so just now catching up with the blogs. Is it my imagination or have we suddenly had a whole group of psychiatric patients escape from Ward 10?? At least one of them admits he’s psycho! There is certainly one who I have identified who not only can’t spell but also unsure how to turn caps lock off and on. I wonder if Ben’s mate Phil escaped as well. They make a great pair! Also, Rod Oram is an English journalist who has only been in NZ for 5 minutes, since 1997 anyway! The same length of time as the green Australian wanker, Russell Norman! Do you think they came together? Perhaps we have uncovered something more interesting than milk drinking and Chinese currency, like who gives a fuck??

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  45. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Hilarious coming from BJ

    BJ

    maybe that is what you want us to give out trading partners

    Have you checked the stats and confer with Nostrodamus
    and do yourself a favour and read chinese newspapers
    better info than the ….”NZ herald” on “China”

    Have we upset your “Chinese Dream” by asking questions again that is sad

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/850110.shtml#.Uy5IiSh145s
    The “Chinese Dream” enjoys a higher level of awareness than the “American Dream,” and a growing number of Chinese will see China as the world’s “ideal country” in the coming 10 years, a new study released by Britain-based advertising giant WPP has revealed.

    Entitled “The Power and Potential of The Chinese Dream,” the 89-page report explores the significance of the Chinese Dream in a larger context of the American Dream and the British Dream

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  46. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Are we allowed to hear some official recent Quotes

    from who Key has been speaking to
    I mean in between your Kumbaya drivel

    reported 18-03-2014 in Global Times

    <
    "being able to combat and win battles" as the focus, Xi said

    "combat-readiness standard"

    With "being able to combat and win battles" as the focus, Xi said at the meeting the reform should target key problems in strengthening combat preparedness and weak links in honing combat effectiveness.

    The discussion will entail weeding out military practices that run counter to the "combat-readiness standard" and learning the Communist Party of China (CPC) Central Military Commission (CMC) chairman Xi Jinping's remarks on national defense and army building, according to the PLA Daily.

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/849242.shtml#.Uy5JWCh145s

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  47. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Check the Stats

    “Nostrodamus”
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:China_Military_Budget_2012.png

    perfectly sane question is what is it all for
    is it not

    Why the sudden substantial increases

    China Announces 12.2% Increase in Military Budget
    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/06/world/asia/china-military-budget.html?_r=0

    Do you think there is something they are telling you?

    Anyway ask Fran
    she will know

    of JK

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  48. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    ShawnLH posted at 2.42:

    China ceased being a communist system a long time ago.

    Or has the red wolf just put on Grandma’s capitalist cloak for a while?

    The People’s Republic of China is a single-party state governed by the Communist Party.

    Here’s the Wikipedia description:

    Its current political and economic system has been termed by its leaders as “socialism with Chinese characteristics” (which is Marxism adapted to Chinese circumstances) and as the “socialist market economy” respectively.

    China’s most powerful decision-makers are the seven members of the Central Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China. Wikipedia says of the committee: “Its decisions de facto have the force of law”.

    The State owns all land, nearly every bank, and all domestic media.

    And here’s how it controls the Internet, according to Wikipedia:

    The apparatus of the PRC’s Internet control is considered more extensive and more advanced than in any other country in the world. The governmental authorities not only block website content but also monitor the Internet access of individuals.

    And China isn’t still communist?

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  49. tvb (4,421 comments) says:

    It was TVone that lead the Collins story the SAME day Cunliffe was under pressure with his trusts. There are some very politically motivated people in TV one news. But we do have tv3 and Sky.

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  50. BeeJay (72 comments) says:

    Oh dear, he’s still out there then. You would have thought that they would have rounded them all up by now and have them back in the ward! Better get them back in before dark, the scary yellow peril might come to take them away, ha ha! Like I said, who gives a fuck?

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  51. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    “And China isn’t still communist?”

    Ideologically, no.

    The combination of authoritarian nationalism and State led capitalism is much closer to fascism than communism. Marx is given lip service at best.

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  52. Ross12 (1,425 comments) says:

    Was talking to a young guy ( under 30) today about this and he made the comment that journalism needs to take a hard look at itself because it has gone downhill so much in the last 5-10 years. I thought it was refreshing to hear that from a young person.

    On the China issue he asked if I’d heard of the $750 mill deal done by Pacific Aerospace of Hamilton with the Chinese to build small planes for it, in conjunction with a Chinese Company. Has it been in the MSM and I’ve missed it ? This is a huge deal which helps keep the business grow and not shed jobs as it was close to having to do, after losing some long term contracts.
    Where’s Oram on this news ???

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  53. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    The Pacific Aerospace deal has been quite widely reported actually. And good on them.

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  54. Viking2 (11,470 comments) says:

    Ross12, yep was announced Tuesday I think. Have a look in GD and you will find the links (or the harald or stuff.)

    Jack5 (4,135 comments) says:
    March 23rd, 2014 at 4:02 pm

    And here’s how it controls the Internet, according to Wikipedia:

    The apparatus of the PRC’s Internet control is considered more extensive and more advanced than in any other country in the world. The governmental authorities not only block website content but also monitor the Internet access of individuals.

    And China isn’t still communist?
    ================
    Well the must have decreed that every maker of anything in China should be emailing Kiwi’s. My mail box has had nearly one a day from this company or that making this or that. None of any interest to me yet.

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  55. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Like I said, who gives a fuck?

    <
    Showing your true colours

    and true commitment to your country

    but you will vote for what you are told to vote for and
    YOU DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD
    AND THINK WHAT YOUR TOLD TO THINK
    if you can IN FACT CALLING your comments and ATTITUDE – THINKING
    is drawing a long bow

    ISN'T IT and that is what you don't like

    QUESTIONS AND FACTS

    or WORSE

    Accurate Quotes from who
    YOUR LEADER IS TALKING TO

    Goodness God help us
    PEOPLE MIGHT CALL THAT JOURNALISM?

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  56. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    Ben, you’re starting to shout again. Take your pill and a few deep breaths.

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  57. Ross12 (1,425 comments) says:

    Thanks Viking2 & mikenmild

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  58. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    No What I want to hear is What

    “JK” said to “XJ”

    if you don’t mind is that going to be as hard as getting the “Tea Tapes”
    and that would be real journalism

    I mean “XJ” he say to PLA get combat ready

    What you say about that?

    This is a side show to deflect from real global issues

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  59. BeeJay (72 comments) says:

    Ben, for god’s sake go home, take your pills like a good wee fuckwit, dream the dream and start again tomorrow! I really think you are past your use by date, most likely a labour or green idiot. You have no place discussing issues with real people!
    http://www.dickgaughan.co.uk/usenet/guide/faq07-fwit.html
    Ben just loves to add links, here’s one for him!

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  60. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Which NZ Chinese Student Won an Award
    from the Kokoda Foundation for Strategic studies
    did you read his essay – brilliant reading

    http://www.kokodafoundation.org/The-Future-Strategic-Leaders-Congress

    DON”T YOU KNOW BJ? shame about that BJ

    A movie from a Hong Kong Chinese friend for you

    Now which parts of this movie did the Communist party insist on editing

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  61. Jack5 (5,137 comments) says:

    China’s political system isn’t as clearly non-commnuist as ShawnLH reiterated in his 4.47 post, at least if the term communism still encompasses Leninism.

    Here are some points made in Foreign Policy January 2, 2011:

    If Vladimir Lenin were reincarnated in 21st-century Beijing … he would instantly recognize in the ruling Chinese Communist Party a replica of the system he designed nearly a century ago for the victors of the Bolshevik Revolution. One need only look at the party’s structure to see how communist — and Leninist — China’s political system remains.
    China long ago dumped the core of the communist economic system …yet … Chinese leaders have been careful to keep control of the commanding heights of politics through the party’s grip on the “three Ps”: personnel, propaganda, and the People’s Liberation Army.
    The PLA is the party’s military, not the country’s … the party is on constant guard for … depoliticization of the military. Their fear is straightforward: the loss of party control over the generals and their troops.
    Perhaps most importantly, the party dictates all senior personnel appointments in ministries and companies, universities and the media, through a shadowy and little-known body called the Organization Department … the Chinese remember Stalin’s dictate that the cadres decide everything.

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  62. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    No it is not Communist not at all and not much that is why

    Fran can be forgiven (being a senior journalist)
    for missing that – maybe those glasses get all misty

    XI

    specifically ordered more combat readiness of the PLA on Tuesday
    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/849242.shtml#.Uy7C6ih145s
    <
    With "being able to combat and win battles" as the focus, Xi said at the meeting the reform should target key problems in strengthening combat preparedness and weak links in honing combat effectiveness.
    <

    and complimented John Key the Next

    http://www.globaltimes.cn/content/849561.shtml#.Uy7AsSh145s
    Cooperation between China and New Zealand is pioneering and exemplary, said Chinese President Xi Jinping as he met with visiting New Zealand Prime Minister John Key in Beijing on Wednesday.

    But like you say the cadres decide everything and they will

    IT IS CALLED SAYING ONE thing and DOING the opposite

    Welcome to your DREAM dreamers

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  63. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    and if Key or anyone else had actually been dumb enough to ask any tricky questions

    The Chinese Navy would already be underway to perform “unplanned”
    Combat exercises just outside your territorial waters

    like they did last month with Australia

    OR DID YOU AND THE NZ HERALD MISS THIS AS WELL

    >

    The vessels, two destroyers and an advanced 20,000-ton amphibious ship capable of carrying some hundreds of marines (pictured), then skirted the southern edge of Java before heading north through the Lombok and Makassar Straits and into the Pacific.

    This is the first substantial Chinese military exercise in the eastern part of the Indian Ocean and in Australia’s maritime approaches. It seems also to be the first time a Chinese taskforce has transited the Sunda and Lombok straits as alternatives to the Malacca Strait.

    With this decidedly Indo-Pacific foray, China is sending many signals, deliberately or not. One is about its ability and ambition to project force through and beyond the South China Sea. Another is its wish to be seen to be interested in protecting its commercial sea lanes into the Indian Ocean. A third is that the People’s Liberation Army-Navy will go where it wants when it wants, without necessarily consulting or forewarning local powers.

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  64. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    http://www.lowyinterpreter.org/post/2014/02/07/China-makes-statement-as-it-sends-naval-ships-off-Australias-maritime-approaches.aspx

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  65. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    Let’s see if I have this right.

    A senior government minister fucks up and it’s Labour’s fault?

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  66. ross69 (3,652 comments) says:

    To be balanced, David, I think you ought to have pointed out that Rod Oram predicted on Radio NZ Nine to Noon that Key’s trip would be a disaster

    Oram made the point that Key was “misusing” his relationship with China. Key is “elevating” the scare into something bigger than it was. That’s a fair point.

    Oram did not say Key’s trip would be a “disaster”. You were obviously listening to a different interview, Matthew. You’ve been caught out telling lies on Nine to Noon previously. It seems you haven’t woken up to yourself.

    http://www.radionz.co.nz/audio/player/2589361

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  67. ShawnLH (5,025 comments) says:

    Oram is a serial liar.

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  68. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    The reality of this the Day before a meeting with Key
    Xi orders troops to be combat ready
    and it does not get a mention?

    It does not bade well for exporters does it (sorry about that)
    you can pretend it does but it does not
    and neither does chinas 12+% increase in Military spend
    with deliberate naval intimidation of your nearest neighbour Australia

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  69. BeeJay (72 comments) says:

    I wonder if Ben’s sister Eileen is as silly as he is?

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  70. Ben Dover (526 comments) says:

    Do you think if Indonesia or China was Nuking Aus the Herald would report it?

    I sincerely doubt it
    or would they spin a GOOD TIME Story?

    Any way WELL DONE you have

    “Secured Milk Powder in our Time”

    What does Xi mean when he says “combat ready” (in english)
    does it mean “ready for combat”?

    next question
    when?
    where? and with
    who?

    and you can always ask
    “why?”

    don’t ask me ask “Xi ping”

    What is silly about listening to who Key was meeting with Said last week

    “being able to combat and win battles” as the focus, Xi said

    Don’t worry you little head about it “mate”
    Leave the Hard questions to “Julia Bishop” in Australia

    Change your flag it will change everything

    you will be safe

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