General Debate 28 May 2014

May 28th, 2014 at 8:00 am by Kokila Patel
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181 Responses to “General Debate 28 May 2014”

  1. Keeping Stock (10,106 comments) says:

    The defenders of Kim Dotcom will tell you that the charges against him are a massive conspiracy which starts at the White House. Somehow, we doubt that New Zealand software developer JM will agree, having had his intellectual property stuffed by Megaupload.

    The Record of Case is fascinating reading…

    http://keepingstock.blogspot.co.nz/2014/05/it-wasnt-just-hollywood.html

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  2. alex Masterley (1,491 comments) says:

    The record of case is an interesting read.
    Paints Mr Dotcom and his associates in an interesting light.

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  3. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    The religion of peace strike again

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/10092321/Family-stones-woman-to-death

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  4. Southern Raider (1,588 comments) says:

    Just read that one of the guys involved in the Mosque issues in Avondale has been charged with threatening to kill and has been bailed with a curfew.

    His curfew is 11pm to 7am.

    How the hell is having to be home by 11pm a curfew? Most teenagers would love to be out that late.

    I don’t see the point.

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  5. Southern Raider (1,588 comments) says:

    Big Bruv the interesting part was it happened outside a High Court in a major city, not some village backwater.

    Kind of suggests the authorities don’t care.

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  6. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    big bruv, I am surprised the Herald published this kind of a story. Maybe sentiment is turning?

    The Herald also has a headline: “The man accused of murdering Blessie Gotingco is known to authorities. ” I wonder what that means? Was he an ex-patient released in “community care”? Was he an “ex-” something else? Who knows.

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  7. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    It would take too long to describe all my views on feminism except to say that the movement truly sold women a bill of goods and was disastrous to society especially the nuclear family.

    Women are far worse off today than they were before society was turned into a war between the sexes. We are living in very sick and dysfunctional times when pets are more valued than children and so many women have transferred whatever maternal instincts they have left to their cats and dogs. They are biologically adults but emotionally they behave like children.

    If feminism was about choice rather than militant narrow minded beliefs, they would then celebrate the choice of all women. Not just those who chose a career path outside the home.The thing is feminazis and other liberals really don’t believe in choice unless it’s their choice. It really is like they have made themselves emotionally stunted over the years.

    Radical feminists are nothing more than another professionally and perpetually aggrieved group of victims. They want it all. Given to them.

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  8. hj (6,369 comments) says:

    http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/27/-sp-racism-on-rise-in-britain
    Report from Dept of Social Engineering. “Our Mission” ; Our Duty”; “Us”.

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  9. hj (6,369 comments) says:

    The reports about PI unemployment demonsrate exctly what Dr Greg Clydesdale was crucified for. What now of those highly critical peer reviews? What does it say about our thought police (HCR, Race Relations C)?
    From memory one peer review from college of Humanities was covererd in spittle one guardedly supportive.

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  10. hj (6,369 comments) says:

    I think some women feel themselves trapped by biology like the dairy cow and suffer an existential anxiety ( think that”s the word?).

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  11. Left Right and Centre (2,821 comments) says:

    Wrap your lips around some delicious LRC cream today (there’s plenty to go around – no worries)

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  12. Concerned (36 comments) says:

    Despite all the publicity I don’t really understand how the new Internet/Mana “party” is supposed to work. Merger? Multiple leaders? Party vote vs. the list(s)?

    Maybe David could give us one of his clarification posts.

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  13. hj (6,369 comments) says:

    “If I got the chance and the money I would leave tomorrow,” she said. “I have been here all my life but, you know, it’s not Great Britain any more is it? … To be honest I feel like the foreigner these days.”


    John Key can go to Hawai.

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  14. dime (9,459 comments) says:

    “Radical feminists are nothing more than another professionally and perpetually aggrieved group of victims. They want it all. Given to them.” yep!

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  15. Nukuleka (215 comments) says:

    I heard that man of principle John Minto on RNZ news this morning telling us that he has wholly abandoned said principles in the interest of expediency- whoring himself to the fat German for pure naked political gain. Another one whose high horse has gone lame in pursuit of the Nazi-memorabilia-loving Dotcom.

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  16. iMP (2,245 comments) says:

    What a DOG of an interview just now with RNZ ‘s Kathryn Ryan, Gerry Brownlee and Graham Darlow (?) of Fletchers in charge of asbestos in Chch. Good on Gerry Brownlee for exposing Ryan’s crusade, challenging her tone, and lack of research, and trying to build conspiracies that are not there.

    Her answer to a robust interviewee from Govt., insult Gerry Brownlee and cut him off. Not sure she’ll be getting that minister back on her programme any time soon.

    Ah Kim Hill, where did you go? PLEASE come back.

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  17. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    Harriet says:

    “…….before society was turned into a war between the sexes”.

    Not just between the sexes. As you know first and foremost it was war between the classes,the Marxist dialectic and all that.Then the Marxists realised they were losing the class war.Frankfurt School etc.

    They transferred the front from class to everything else. Create a society in constant conflict with itself. In the family,between parents(easy divorce), parents and children( Sue Bradford’s Act, supported by a majority in our parliament) ,between mother and her most precious gift to the world ,life itself in the form of abortion ,that is a “womans’ choice”,we see all manner of justifications advanced for infanticide.Against Christianity,we are constantly told it is not the moral bedrock of western civilisation and has no place in modern society. Against private property rights.That’s a constant.Our courts will over ride wills in the name of “equality”.Our parliament is legislating against the tobacco companies rights to trade.Between the races,look at how massive and entrenched the Treaty industry has become.Now we are told ours is a multicultural society,who says? That is an assault on all things New Zealand was, a Christian,capitalist,Anglo Saxon success story (for the time being)but being slowly but surely eroded,from within.

    There are so many examples of local authorities incursions into private property rights it’s not funny,but they pass with a shrug of the shoulders.

    Cultural marxism is rampant ……….and winning.

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  18. Scott (1,708 comments) says:

    Isn’t Islam a wonderful thing? We definitely need more classrooms set aside for Muslim prayers and more land developed into mosques here in Godzone. We need to allow more Muslims into this country so they can set up little enclaves of sharia law.
    Like they do in what was formerly known as Great Britain. Here is what sharia law looks like in practice-

    “A pregnant woman has been stoned to death by her own family in front of a Pakistani high court for marrying the man she loved.
    Nearly 20 members of the woman’s family, including her father and brothers, attacked her and her husband with batons and bricks in broad daylight before a crowd of onlookers in front of the high court of Lahore…
    Hundreds of women are murdered every year in Muslim-majority Pakistan in so-called ” honour killings” – carried out by husbands or relatives as a punishment for alleged adultery or other illicit sexual behaviour..”

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  19. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    Women want it all handed to them.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/hay-festival/10853565/Cherie-Booth-Help-less-exceptional-women-with-quotas.html

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  20. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    Quotas are for livestock. And fish. :cool:

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  21. minus (136 comments) says:

    Cunliffe’s statement about it being “early days” is pathetic.
    With 115 days to the election, and having become leader 255 days ago, his leadership is just a little more than two thirds fucking over – not really early days at all.

    But the most disturbing aspect of Cunliffe’s leadership, is the desire at this too late stage [early days long gone] to replace him, is that there is no one that can replace him.

    They let their better choice go at the cost of two fish, with the remainder of Labour laughing behind his back.
    None of them are fit to govern.

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  22. Yvette (2,692 comments) says:

    OK, I am the point of displaying my ignorance, but how does Dotcom entering politics have any bearing on the outcome of the his extradition hearings in July to answer multiple USA charges?

    Or if the hearings drag on past the Election, even if his backing of Mana influences a Government indebted to him for their win, will such a Government with a new Justice Minister not be open to judicial appeals and other procedures, or is such a Minister’s decision unquestionable?

    Can a new Minister of Justice dismiss a 72 page Indictment, the seven movie company actions, recording companies, and a roughly 200 page summary of evidence, without a slight hint of corruption?

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  23. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    I suspect many women would like the “freedom to choose to be stay-at-home mothers.” However, this choice is diminished by several factors today, including:

    - Consumerism and the high cost of housing
    - The mindset that “both partners must work” (linked to above)
    - Feminism (or more the notion that “we won’t let men get the upper hand”) (Harriet is on to it)
    - The poor “image” of being a mother in today’s Western cultures (this could change)

    Remember: The hand that rocks the cradle rules the world

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  24. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    “…..They let their better choice go at the cost of two fish, with the remainder of Labour laughing behind his back….”

    True!

    But Key is the mug who will now have to employ another half dozen of the useless fuckers after the election – with your money!!!

    Ex career pollies from the left never leave the public tit. That’s always been the way with National and Labour.

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  25. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ minus (76 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 9:46 am

    It would be a very foolish politician who thinks that it is not early days.

    As most intelligent politicians would know, a decent scandal the day before the election can make a very big difference. That is 100+ days for someone to find something that inflames the electorate’s emotions – are you absolutely 100% convinced that none of the MP’s are hiding something they don’t want anyone to know ?

    It ain’t over till the fat lady sings, and the orchestra hasn’t even warmed up yet!

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  26. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    Talking of the religion of peace there’s a grim irony in the views of a leading British Muslim moaning about a small but violent minority handing out leaflets in and near mosques in Britain when his co religionists walk into mosques and blow themselves and everyone else up.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2014/05/first-tackling-menace-far-right–20145261213161811.html

    http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middleeast/2014/05/iraq-shia-worshippers-killed-suicide-blast-201452712252933817.html

    Al Jazeera also report on the destruction of very old and important mosques in the Sunni uprising there.The Muslim world and the western media is largely silent on the issue. But dare the Americans in the Iraq war , or the Israelis in their struggle to survive “defile the sanctity” of a Muslim holy place, by goodness the religion of perpetual outrage and its supporters in our dhimmi MSM are all over it.

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  27. Yoza (1,548 comments) says:

    A large chunk of GD dedicated to highlighting the barbaric killing of a women by her father and brothers for disobeying patriarchal traditions versus Harriet and Kowtow championing women being put back in the harness in the West.

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  28. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    kowtow
    You think British Muslims shouldn’t ‘moan’ when aggressive far-right loonies invade their places of worship? What should they do, listen politely and convert to Christianity?

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  29. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    kowtow,

    This “cultural marxism” or “this war between the classes, the Marxist dialectic and all that…” Is it driven by:

    a) individuals who have studied the writings of Marx, Gramsci et al and are part of some formal movement to put them into practice?
    b) individuals who are naturally sympathetic to the above but who may not have read them, but who somehow feel a strong urge to “put past injustices right” in any way that they can?
    c) a combination of a) and b) above?
    d) some other conspiracy (insert conspiracy of choice here)?

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  30. stephieboy (2,195 comments) says:

    Harriet, In light of what you’ve said the Conservatives consistently poor polling cries out for an explanation.?

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  31. igm (1,413 comments) says:

    mikenwimp: Being a leftie you would turn the other cheek!

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  32. OTGO (512 comments) says:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niP07kbZMiU

    Suggest you watch the whole movie. Made in 1998 and just as relevant today.

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  33. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    igm
    Seeing as I don’t have a place of worship I don’t need to worry about what I would do in such circumstances. What would you do if Muslims interrupted your church service to hand out copies of the Koran?

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  34. Scott (1,708 comments) says:

    Mikenmild – Moslems interrupting our church services to hand out copies of the Koran are the least of our worries. It will never happen. What they normally do is go in with machine guns and start killing people and then burn down the church.

    But your response is typical of the soft liberal whose head is completely in the sand. We need to take Islam seriously. It is an existential threat to Western civilisation. Smart liberal irony will not stop Islam.

    We need to remember the convictions that made our nation great.

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  35. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    When was the last time that happened, then? Did it make the news?

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  36. Scott (1,708 comments) says:

    This is what is happening in New Zealand right now among Muslims–

    “The right-hand man of a Muslim leader at the centre of an Auckland mosque row has been charged with threatening to kill.

    Imran Patel allegedly threatened senior members of the New Zealand Muslim Association, which owns the Avondale Islamic Centre in Blockhouse Bay Rd.

    The alleged threats arose from tensions between two Islamic factions battling for control of the centre.”

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  37. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Whoah, scary. One man charged. Surely only the tip of the iceberg, eh?

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  38. Scott (1,708 comments) says:

    “When was the last time that happened, then? Did it make the news?”

    Mikenmild – do you think for a moment before you write? For goodness sake man. Don’t you read the news? I have one word for you – “Egypt”.

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  39. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ Yvette

    As I understand it the Minister’s decision is a form of the Royal prerogative of mercy and is usually exercised once all judicial options have taken their course and all other options have been exhausted – which is why Judith Collins has said she will not be considering intervening at this stage in the Teina Pora case, as his lawyer is appealing to the Privy Council.

    So the Minister’s decision as the designated servant of the Sovereign is unchangeable in any civil court. Is like the pardon granted to Arthur Allan Thomas, or the decision of a Minister of Immigration to intervene, and waive deportation for an illegal immigrant on humanitarian grounds as Rajen Prasad is arguing Nikki Kaye should have done in the recent case of Sanil Kumar.

    However, as your questions rightly imply, there would be continual re-litigating of any such decision in the court of public opinion if a future Minister of Justice let KDC stay. And as our international credibility would also take a hit, I would suggest as we would soon and deservedly inherit the mantle of ‘Banana Republic’.

    Truly amazing, ironic and hypocritical that those speaking out on KDC’s behalf are spinning a plot theory of illegitimate and sinister influence over the the political and judicial process!

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  40. lilman (892 comments) says:

    Kim Hill,come back please.!!!!!!!!

    Seriously are you bloody insane.

    23 MIN question introductions followed by 17 interruptions ,followed by arm waving and then hushed tones of in-depth analysis.

    Where did I put that Whiskey?

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  41. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    And some Muslims burst into a church in Egypt and massacred the worshippers recently, did they? I wouldn’t travel there.

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  42. Nukuleka (215 comments) says:

    Judith- might I remind you that Jim Bolger was hauled over the coals by the feminista and media when he had the temerity to make an allusion to that fat lady singing!! What a ludicrously pc country we were then- and still are! Jim was forced to wear sack cloth and ashes and make innumerable apologies to all the fat women he’d offended.

    Now had the saying referred to fat men… No problem, I suggest.

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  43. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    Scott (1,632 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 10:32 am
    This is what is happening in New Zealand right now among Muslims–

    “The right-hand man of a Muslim leader at the centre of an Auckland mosque row has been charged with threatening to kill.

    yeah, like that has never happened in New Zealand before among non-Muslims.

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  44. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ Nukuleka (103 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 10:43 am

    Damn – poor Jim. I seem to remember something about that now you’ve mentioned it. In future I shall use ‘a person with an unhealthy BMI has not yet begun to sing’ ! :-)

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  45. David Garrett (6,452 comments) says:

    Judith: Please do point us to the occasion where a member of some faction of a Christian church – any old bizarre sect of cranks will do – was charged with threatening to kill a member of a rival faction…Just in your own time…I am off to run errands…back in a couple of hours…that should give you plenty of time..

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  46. OneTrack (2,614 comments) says:

    mike – “And some Muslims burst into a church in Egypt and massacred the worshippers recently, did they? I wouldn’t travel there.”

    But you are in favour of bringing those muslims here, so no need to travel.

    But, I remember now, we are “nice” ™, so the issues that Europe, etc., are already having to deal with, just won’t happen here. I feel so much better. We just need to be “nice” and they will ignore the teachings of their religion and their culture.

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  47. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    There is no Muslim threat to New Zealand. I am perfectly comfortable with us refusing to discriminate against immigrants on the basis of religion.

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  48. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    Giving a little more thought to my earlier post,

    I suspect that there are many “b” individuals (individuals who somehow feel a strong urge to “put past injustices right” in any way that they can) but relatively few “a” individuals (who have studied the writings of Marx, Gramsci et al). What is interesting is the way in which these two groups interact.

    I think the “b” people form a kind of a sea in which the “a” people swim. The “b” people are highly responsive to the outpourings of the “a” individuals. For their part, the “a” people gravitate to positions in society where they can broadcast their views the “b” group most effectively.

    Which is easier: hunt the fish or drain the sea?

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  49. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    The combined force of Muslims atheists and progressives- a clear and present danger to western civilisation?

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  50. Auberon (871 comments) says:

    I see the great oracles of political commentary are drawing comparisons between Cunliffe and Peters over immigration.

    Would a more pertinent (and shameless) comparison perhaps be Cunliffe and Nigel Farage?

    I wouldn’t put it past him to look at what’s working in the UK and cut and paste it into a New Zealand context.

    Either way, it’s loathsome.

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  51. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    We already discriminate against potential immigrants on the basis of health (we rightly don’t allow sick or the mentally ill in).

    We discriminate on the basis of education and training (skills)

    We discriminate on the basis of wealth .We don’t allow those who might be dependant on the taxpayer.

    Nothing wrong with a bit of “discrimination”. The word is choice, we should be able to chose as we do.It’s not “discrimination”, it’s common sense.

    So what’s the problem with any other forms of choice the electorate might decide is important? Race , religion and values are important and make a huge difference in “integration”.

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  52. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    “There is no Muslim threat to New Zealand.”

    What a stupid comment.

    Everywhere that has allowed mass Muslim immigration has seen that countries culture and way of life harmed to accommodate the religion of peace.
    The onus is on normal immigrants to blend in with their new community, to take on or at the very least respect the culture of their new country, the religion of peace does not allow them to do so, indeed it demands that they convert the infidels to the word of Allah on pain of death.

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  53. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    “The combined force of Muslims atheists and progressives”

    I don’t know if they are combined. Cummulative maybe.
    I wonder what alliances they might form (tacit or otherwise) based on the principle of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”?

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  54. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    “I wonder what alliances they might form (tacit or otherwise) based on the principle of “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”?”

    Many of them know not what they do. They are victims of brainwashing and a politically corrupt education system that partners with similarly corrupt media & entertainment culture.

    The Marxist strategy is clear to anyone who takes the time to read about it.

    The objective is to bit by bit destroy our traditional society and replace it with the new improved Marxist model.

    The primary strategy in this plan of destruction is to divide us into warring groups. Atheists against Christians for example. Europeans against Maoris. Maoris against Asians. Young against old. Rich against poor.

    The same strategy is being employed in every western society/ democracy. It springs from the teachings of the Frankfurt school.

    A cohesive and united society will remain functional. Once we are split into groups it is so much easier to destroy us.

    The Marxists don’t want a strong and cohesive society. They want us divided and weak and therefore easily defeated.

    So many on here are enthusiastically aiding the Marxists without a clue that is what they are doing.

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  55. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    Men fight because they have strong beliefs in something.

    In order to see a threat, you must be convinced that your “way” is better than theirs, and you must be prepared to defend what you believe in.

    If you can not believe that there really are people out there who hate your way of life to the extent that they would harm you for it, then your capacity to see any threat, no less respond to it via the electoral process will surely be dhiminished.

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  56. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    “So many on here are aiding the Marxists without a clue that is what they are doing.”

    Do you ever go back and read the utter crap you write Bedwetter?

    You claim to be agnostic (another lie I suspect) but even if I take that at face value you are suggesting that if we all start believing in the sky fairy then we can defeat the Marxist threat.

    Atheists are not the enemy, organised religion is.

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  57. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    “There is no Muslim threat to New Zealand.”

    What a stupid comment.

    I don’t dispute that there is a potential Muslim threat to New Zealand that requires continual vigilance by both the country, and the Muslim community itself. I’ve been personally heartened by their actions in the Avondale Mosque case.

    However, what, based on our current immigration policies, demographics, and birth rates – including among the overwhelmingly Christian Polynesian population, who are one of our largest minority groups – indicates that we are in any real likelihood of experiencing what Britain, Germany and France are currently undergoing, let alone a wholesale Muslim takeover?

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  58. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    Go away Bruv.

    You’re a coward and a liar and everything you write is a perfect example of a strawman argument.

    You’re just an unintelligent troll and a waste of time.

    ZZZzzzzz.. snore… zzzzzz

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  59. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    yoza

    Please provide evidence for your claim that I want women “put back in the harness”.

    Put up or shut up.

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  60. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    I’m off fishing today (yes, really).

    Hoping to have sashimi for dinner tonight if I get lucky. (Have the Yamasa soy sauce and wasabi (from Japan Mart) in the fridge, waiting to go.)

    In the meantime, Red, pleased enlighten us on the way we can identify our Marxists (at there are stiff fines for catching the wrong species).

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  61. dime (9,459 comments) says:

    “Atheists are not the enemy, organised religion is.”

    atheists are a bigger pain in the ass nowadays!

    they are like people who do crossfit or vegans – they cant wait to tell ya! then tell you how right they are. they cant believe how clever they are.

    atheists are also just offensive. cant help themselves. they have to fuck with someone who is perfectly happy. for no reason.

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  62. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    Another victory to me then Bedwetter. Every time you run away it is because I have exposed you as nothing more than a liar.

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  63. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Who are the bigger pests on Kiwiblog – the christians or the atheists?

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  64. questions (170 comments) says:

    Lots of twisted panties yesterday about a protest outside Key’s house, but not one mention of Failoil sending Steady Eddy Brownlee to take photos of John Mintos house to put on his blog?

    Year of the memory hole perhaps?

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  65. Ashley Schaeffer (410 comments) says:

    Dime, yep, the most unappealing aspect of atheism is the atheists themselves. Just as I appreciate the religious to keep their convictions to themselves, I wish that atheists would do the same.

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  66. tom hunter (4,430 comments) says:

    Year of the memory hole perhaps

    Year of sauce for the goose. It’s about time assholes like Minto got a taste of their own medicine.

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  67. Ashley Schaeffer (410 comments) says:

    mikenmild (9,598 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 11:49 am
    Who are the bigger pests on Kiwiblog – the christians or the atheists?

    The trolls.

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  68. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    “When was the last time that happened, then? Did it make the news?”

    Listen Mikey………. Only you would wait to see for evidence of islamic extremism in NZ before you acted.

    Everyone else can see that Islamic immigration is a matter of public safety.

    When Muslims hit 2% of the populaton in any country they then start to agitate for Sharia law and all the rest of it.

    Halal certification is a rort – the cost is passed onto all customers of the companies – not just the Muslim customers. We are being taxed by Muslims and the on going fees go towards their ideology.

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  69. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    ‘Everyone’ actually being tiny, xenophobic minority.

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  70. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    “atheists are also just offensive. cant help themselves. they have to fuck with someone who is perfectly happy. for no reason.”

    Nomination for the most brain dead post of the year.

    Clearly Dime you have decided to take a stance on the issue without bothering to do any research at all on the subject.

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  71. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    ” In the meantime, Red, pleased enlighten us on the way we can identify our Marxists ”

    If you catch any fish with glazed eyes, swimming in pointless circles and gasping unintelligibly, they’re probably Marxists.

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  72. Komata (1,111 comments) says:

    Kimbo

    Re: ‘However, what, based on our current immigration policies, demographics, and birth rates – including among the overwhelmingly Christian Polynesian population, who are one of our largest minority groups – indicates that we are in any real likelihood of experiencing what Britain, Germany and France are currently undergoing, let alone a wholesale Muslim takeover?’

    In answer to that I would submit that, for a start, the very deliberate and calculated policy that Muslims in New Zealand have of proselytising-to and gaining adherents for their faith amongst Maori in NZ Prisons. The intent is there and it is ongoing and becoming stronger. As these newly-converted individuals are members of gangs, the ripple effect will be felt, with the result that, with time, things are going to become very nasty. Islam deliberately appeals to the ‘warrior’ mentality that is largely innate within Maori males and when combined with a subtly (and carefully) fostered fanaticism that plays on grievances the eventual result is a time bomb that is waiting to explode; as it will.

    Be under absolutely NO illusions: Islam don’t care about you or me or anyone; it only cares about the establishment of a Second Caliphate which to them equate with the return of Jesus Christ. To accomplish this, Muslims will lie and deceive (with permission of the koran BTW), and do all and anything to achieve this. As such we are expendable and useful, and great will be the destruction of ALL non-believers when they have achieved their goals . It’s not a matter of IF, it’s a matter of WHEN!!

    In addition, the ‘West’ is seen as decadent and has to be destroyed. The koran says so. NZ will not escape, and it’s naive to think that we will, especially as Muslims are deliberately ‘out-breeding’ Kiwi’s and are intent on reaching sufficient numbers to start to ‘influence’ things here. They are also collecting in ghettos and will convert these into ‘Muslim only’ areas which will give them ‘leaverage’ and influence.

    You’ve seen what is happening in Europe, it is happening in Oz, so why should we escape?

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  73. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Well, that’s a nice mix of religious bigotry and racism right there. Watch out for the Maori jihadists.

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  74. dime (9,459 comments) says:

    ““atheists are also just offensive. cant help themselves. they have to fuck with someone who is perfectly happy. for no reason.”

    Nomination for the most brain dead post of the year.

    Clearly Dime you have decided to take a stance on the issue without bothering to do any research at all on the subject.”

    did you get touched as a kid or something?

    the only religious people i know in the real world just seem to go about their day. quiet about their faith. never try to convert me.

    the atheists are another story. fucking painful. like they need everyone to agree with them to validate what they believe.

    Dime couldnt give two fucks if you dont believe in god. Couldnt care less if you did. having to hear your opinion repeated every other day is enough to do my head in though.

    in case you dont know what you sound like…

    your basically griff with his global warming religion.

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  75. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ Komata

    Thanks. So just to clarify – there is NOTHING in our current immigration policies, demographics, and birth rates that indicates we are in immediate or likely danger of a Mulism takeover? Or at least none that you mentioned in your lengthy post. Which I think answers your question “why should we escape?”. Just joining the dots.

    I’m not too sure why you felt it necessary to give me the sermon, when my original post clearly stated, “I don’t dispute that there is a potential Muslim threat to New Zealand that requires continual vigilance by both the country, and the Muslim community itself.” Nevertheless, thanks for outlining your feelings (if not particularly compelling thoughts) on why this is a matter of immediate and pressing national concern.

    Just kicking the tyres on those thoughts of yours a bit more: -

    Any indication Muslim proselyting aimed at the Maori prison population is having a notable success as it has in the USA (e.g., Malcolm X)? So far, based on a TV report, we’ve seen one particularly sad street person embrace Islam.

    And how, if they are already members of gangs, will they reconcile that with the no-alcohol policy of Islam if the “ripple effect” (to use your words) is to be effected?

    Or does just asking those question earn me more down votes, just like when I asked my last question in my previous post?

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  76. Fletch (6,028 comments) says:

    I see that the geniuses in the Obama administration have given away the name of the CIA Chief Of Station in Afghanistan to a whole bunch of reporters via briefing notes, before Obama visited there. Oops! They quickly issued an alternate release without the name. A lot of good that is going to do.

    In an embarrassing flub, the Obama administration accidentally revealed the name of the CIA’s top official in Afghanistan in an email to thousands of journalists during the president’s surprise Memorial Day weekend trip to Bagram Air Field.

    The officer’s name — identified as “chief of station” in Kabul — was included by U.S. embassy staff on a list of 15 senior American officials who met with President Obama during the Saturday visit. The list was sent to a Washington Post reporter who was representing the news media, who then sent it out to the White House “press pool” list, which contains as many as 6,000 recipients.

    The Associated Press is withholding the officer’s name at the request of the Obama administration, who said its publication could put his life and those of his family members in danger. A Google search appears to reveal the name of the officer’s wife and other personal details.

    White House officials realized the error after the Post reporter notified them, and sent out a new list without the station chief’s name. Other major news organizations, including the Post, also agreed not to publish the officer’s name.

    The reporter who distributes the pool report sends it to the White House to be checked for factual accuracy and then forwarded to the thousands of journalists on the email distribution list, so in this case the White House failed on at least two occasions to recognize that the CIA official’s name was being revealed and circulated so broadly.

    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/white-house-mistakenly-reveals-cia-officials-23870770

    There was a lot of bitching and blaming the Bush administration during the Valerie Plame incident (which eventually turned out not to have come from the Bush Admin at all), but this is far worse, and the news media is largely just having a chuckle and moving along.

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  77. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    “did you get touched as a kid or something? ”

    Possible. I think it could also be what drive’s Narsekissa’s obsession.

    The thing is, with Bigot Bruv and Narskissa, it probably isn’t that they were molested that upsets them. Its more likely to be the discovery that they enjoyed it.

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  78. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (5,438 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 11:00 am

    Example – I remember a couple of religious fanatics, one of which was a leader, blowing themselves up on New North Road, Grey Lynn back in the seventies whilst making a bomb. Their target was to be another religious group – who they had previously threatened.

    I should add I remember it particularly because I was in my first job, and working a few doors down. After our building shook we ran outside to find bits and pieces of the bombers lying all over the road – the bomb had thrown them in the air and forced them through a mesh fence.

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  79. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    Of course, the bombers weren’t charged due to the technicality of being dead – I hear they were in ‘pieces’ over their actions, and were deemed not likely to repeat the act :P

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  80. Viking2 (11,144 comments) says:

    Housing charity hit by tax bill

    The Government’s social housing reforms have hit a major snag with a charity stung by a $6 million tax bill for helping poor families to buy homes.

    The Government has been forced to pay the Queenstown Lakes Housing Trust’s bill and has introduced a bill to ensure the ruling does not ruin other charities, with potential liabilities of tens of millions, or slow down moves to boost the supply of social housing.

    Housing Minister Nick Smith revealed today they had been blindsided by the Charities Commission’s ruling last year.

    “A number of our community housing organisations have got into the business of assisting people into home ownership. The tax department and Charities Commission has ruled that that is outside the domain, they need to pay tax on that.”

    The Charities Commission had ruled that providing cheap rent was charitable but helping people to buy was not.

    Smith described the ruling as “arbitrary” and said he did not agree with it but could not overrule it.

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10093399/Housing-charity-hit-by-tax-bill

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  81. Scott (1,708 comments) says:

    Judith-to what church did they belong?

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  82. Harriet (4,524 comments) says:

    “…..And how, if they are already members of gangs, will they reconcile that with the no-alcohol policy of Islam if the “ripple effect” (to use your words) is to be effected?…”

    Howard segregated hardliners from Aboriginals in most prisons. And of course those aboriginals are nearlly all alcoholics. No one questions it. It’s a matter of serious public safety.

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  83. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ Scott (1,633 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 12:55 pm

    I am not 100% sure but I think they were members of a sect of Hari-krishna or similar eastern religion. People that used the building used to wear white robes.

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  84. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    Oh look,another day another outrage from the religion of peace,tolerance and compassion.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2640367/Sudanese-doctor-facing-execution-marrying-U-S-Christian-gives-birth-baby-girl-squalid-jail.html

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  85. OneTrack (2,614 comments) says:

    “Who are the bigger pests on Kiwiblog – the christians or the atheists?”

    Some atheists.

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  86. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    Howard segregated hardliners from Aboriginals in most prisons. And of course those aboriginals are nearlly all alcoholics. No one questions it. It’s a matter of serious public safety.

    Yes, Harriet/Field Marshal. That to me seems an eminently sensible policy, and one in keeping with my previous note about the need for ” continual vigilance” regarding the particular potential problem Islam represents.

    While no group should ever receive special favour, the other equally valid concern is that in the attempt to curb radical Islam we end up discriminating against minorities (and that is not just Muslims) or threatening the hard-won civil rights of us all.

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  87. Scott Chris (5,881 comments) says:

    point us to the occasion where a member of some faction of a Christian church – any old bizarre sect of cranks will do – was charged with threatening to kill a member of a rival faction

    Umm, Protestants vs Catholics in Northern Ireland for starters.

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  88. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    Um, just thinking about this alleged, present and on-going Muslim infiltration of our free and pluralistic New Zealand society…does Tim Groser’s conversion to Islam count as evidence and constitute a threat?

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  89. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    point us to the occasion where a member of some faction of a Christian church – any old bizarre sect of cranks will do – was charged with threatening to kill a member of a rival faction

    Umm, Protestants vs Catholics in Northern Ireland for starters.

    In New Zealand?!

    The worst it ever got to was the sectarian rhetoric by Ward and Massey in the 1910 election campaign, and the (unsuccessful) prosecution of Bishop Liston for sedition during the time of the Irish Civil War of the early 1920s.

    Even Volkner killed by the Hau Hau in 1865 in Opotiki was because of the information he was passing to the Crown, and not due to his religion.

    The question was framed in the context of New Zealand. Where, last time I looked, Catholics and Protestants live in peace, as they do in nearly every part of the world. Evidence, I would have thought, that in Ulster religion was largely and excuse and/or occasion for the the sectarian feud rather than the primary reason for the killing.

    Just keeping it real

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  90. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Kimbo
    We have Muslim MPs? Oh the horror.

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  91. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild

    It gets worse: a Cabinet Minister in a key economic portfolio, supposedly representing the trade interests of, among others, the New Zealand wine industry!

    We all know what ‘The Prophet’ (Peace be upon him) had to say about THAT!

    And now it begins…!

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  92. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Obviously some type of fifth-column activity.

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  93. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    scott chris

    The conflict in Northern Ireland was /is largely,but not uniquely an issue of nationalist republicans (the current leadership also being extreme leftists) against unionist loyalists.

    The fact that each camp divides rather conveniently along religious lines tends to be a social phenomenon. Working class Catholics favour nationalism while working class protestants favour unionism.

    More Irish Catholics have served for, fought for, and died for the Crown than ever took arms against it.

    The danger for ignorant people is that they think Hollywood portrays reality.

    It is in essence a political struggle with strong religious overtones.

    The difference from Islam is that the mainstream churches there have always condemned the violence and the violence has never been done in the name of religion. It is done as an extension of politics.

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  94. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    Obviously some type of fifth-column activity.

    And in Groser’s case they are using the same methods the Jesuits used to try and orchestrate the Papist overthrow of Protestant government: Intermarriage!

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  95. Elaycee (4,304 comments) says:

    @Kimbo: Agree… the incident where two Hare Krishnas blew themselves up in Kingsland circa 1976, suggests they were more interested in the meat works than any sectarian violence. A 30s search on Google found this:

    ◾Two hare krishnas blew themselves up accidentally across the road in 1976. They were planning on blowing up the meat works but accidentally did themselves instead. Their body parts were all over Great North Road and the street, and they found an arm on a roof of one of the warehouses. The shockwave tipped over cabinets and water cylinders in houses in the neighbourhood.

    Darwin….

    http://www.animoller.com/old-blog/2011/04/02/awesome-stories-about-my-street/

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  96. mandk (823 comments) says:

    Scott Chris: “Protestants vs Catholics in Northern Ireland for starters”

    You’re talking about rival tribes there. How many IRA-types invoked Jesus, Mary and Joseph before letting off bombs? And how many UVF-types quoted the Geneva Bible to justify their actions?

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  97. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    yoza

    Women in the harness? Like this?

    http://torontoist.com/attachments/toronto_david/2006_09_08_borat.jpg

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  98. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ Elaycee

    …Their body parts were all over Great North Road and the street, and they found an arm on a roof of one of the warehouses…

    Hmm. Not sure that’s what the Vedas were intending when they advised to “become one with the Universe”.

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  99. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ mandk

    And how many UVF-types quoted the Geneva Bible to justify their actions?

    Although to be fair, I have tried to slip in the odd reference whenever I try to motivate the Protestants in our rugby club whenever there is a fixture against Marist. But the fact the left footers are invariably the most hospitable club around AFTER a game does tend to undermine the attempt.

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  100. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    Dime

    I had thought that you were a bit smarter than that, clearly I was wrong. I had no idea that you spent so much time around religious folk, I was unaware that so many hookers were bible bashers.

    Sad to see that you think that kids who have been abused by religious paedophiles is a thing to make fun of though (and no, I was not abused as a child) given that you are prepared to use that most evil of crimes as a way of scoring cheap points says so very much about you.

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  101. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    “You’re talking about rival tribes there. How many IRA-types invoked Jesus, Mary and Joseph before letting off bombs? And how many UVF-types quoted the Geneva Bible to justify their actions?”

    Nice!….making excuses for religious bigots now.

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  102. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    Bedwetter

    Are you now denying that you once claimed to be agnostic?

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  103. mandk (823 comments) says:

    You’re simply exposing your ignorance and naivety, bb.

    The Northern Irish conflict is between the republican tribe and the unionist tribe.

    Are you saying that Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness would object to protestants joining Sinn Fein?

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  104. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ Elaycee (4,169 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 3:14 pm

    There original violence was probably intended for the meat works, but there was an ongoing battle between that group and another of the same religion that had a farm or land up in the Waitakeres. I remember a group of the Waitak’s lot arrriving one day and there was a yelling match in the street, with one group threatening to dispose of the other.

    I guess one group were peace loving, the other not. My boss, a guy by the name of Harry Andrews made a complaint to the cops because he worried about the couple of young girls that worked for him and had to catch the bus at the stop that was directly in front of their building. Obviously they didn’t investigate it, because it wasn’t long after the street was full of spagetti.

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  105. David Garrett (6,452 comments) says:

    Judith@ 12.39…I asked for an example of a CHRISTIAN sect…the hare krishnas and any other sect whose members – as opposed to clergy – went about in white robes in the 70′s almost certainly weren’t Christian…your original claim at 10.44 was that there were Christians IN NEW ZEALAND threatening to off each other for deviating from the true path…you have failed to cite an example…

    To those – like our leftie friend Milky – who say we have nothing to fear from Muslim immigration, please tell me why on earth we would be any different from any other western country whose Muslim population climbs above 2%? We have less that 1% Muslims and we have seen the first of what will be many internecine struggles between so called moderates and hardliners in the Avondale mosque…across the Tasman the Muslim population is double ours at over 2% and in Oz there are strident demands already for this or that facility to be made available to Muslims only, and low level violence between Muslims trying to enforce their 7th century creed and ordinary Australians…Back in the Home country the Muslim population is 5% plus, and there are whole areas of cities to which even the police wont go…and home grown jihadis blowing things up…

    So do tell me Milky, and anyone else who says we have nothing to fear: Why on earth would it be different here??

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  106. David Garrett (6,452 comments) says:

    “the street was full of spaghetti”?? Que??

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  107. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @Garrett

    Scott (1,632 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 10:32 am
    This is what is happening in New Zealand right now among Muslims–

    “The right-hand man of a Muslim leader at the centre of an Auckland mosque row has been charged with threatening to kill.

    To which I posted:

    yeah, like that has never happened in New Zealand before among non-Muslims.

    And you came back with:

    ” Please do point us to the occasion where a member of some faction of a Christian church – any old bizarre sect of cranks will do..”

    You changed the terms of reference to Christian, where mine was simply non-muslim. You got your answer based on the terms of reference in my original statement. I did not specify christian, therefore you had no right to ask for a specific example by those terms. I don’t know of any christian related threats, but then I never said I did!

    Typical lawyer!

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  108. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (5,440 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 4:27 pm

    Two of the victims of the bomb blast were thrown into the air and they came down through a wire mesh fence. The street quite literally was full of stuff that looked a bit like spagetti – I guess they were ligaments or whatever, covered in blood. I remember part of a hand and the fingers looked like they were still moving. Quite a surreal experience.

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  109. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    Two of the victims of the bomb blast were thrown into the air and they came down through a wire mesh fence. The street quite literally was full of stuff that looked a bit like spagetti – I guess they were ligaments or whatever, covered in blood. I remember part of a hand and the fingers looked like they were still moving. Quite a surreal experience.

    Hmm. Based on current trends, a good warning for what is likely to be left at the first meeting of the Labour Party caucus after September 20?

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  110. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ Kimbo (521 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 4:43 pm

    Spagetti in the streets? That would indicate they had some guts – something which is yet to be proven! ;-)

    Or were you meaning the result of any possible rioting? I suspect people will be too busy boarding airplanes to riot. One would want a pretty quick exit should labour when the election on their own. It will mean either extreme corruption, or the second coming.

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  111. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    The fantasist from Karori is shitting on NZ again:
    Sue Moroney still has the numbers to pass her paid parental leave bill despite the government’s budget decision to increase it from 14 to 18 weeks. The Labour MP’s member’s bill would increase it to 26 weeks.

    It won’t become law because the government is going to use its financial veto to kill it on its third reading.

    But it’s still on parliament’s agenda and could come up for its second reading on Wednesday night – unless government MPs run a filibuster. Everyone in parliament outside National and ACT support Ms Moroney’s bill, which gives her 61 votes against the government’s 60.

    The single vote majority is coming from United Future leader Peter Dunne, who usually votes with the government. He confirmed on Wednesday he was still supporting the bill.

    http://news.msn.co.nz/nationalnews/8851765/moroneys-bill-still-has-the-numbers

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  112. Elaycee (4,304 comments) says:

    I think some folk are being a bit harsh on the two blokes who blew themselves up….

    Maybe they had just followed the instruction of their leaders to ‘spread their message far and wide’… 8O

    PS: Was the other ‘faction’ the Ananda Marga? IIRC, they were up to mischief during the 70′s.

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  113. David Garrett (6,452 comments) says:

    Judith: Touche…You are right, you did not specify “Christian” maniacs…so a tactical regrouping and a rephrasing: OTHER THAN the case of some obscure sect 40 years ago, when did any kind of serious violence (where blood was shed) between Christian sects – or Christian sect on some other group – in New Zealand occur?

    A bit convoluted, but I think my meaning is clear…And you have already said you don’t know of any, so I suppose I am addressing my question to anyone who might know of such an outrage…I don’t recall anything about the incident in 1976, but then I was working in the North Sea at the time…

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  114. stigie (916 comments) says:

    “The thing is, with Bigot Bruv and Narskissa, it probably isn’t that they were molested that upsets them. Its more likely to be the discovery that they enjoyed it.”

    Hes back again folks, doing what he does best to most of the Kiwibloggers here who want to comment without abuse !

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  115. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    mandk

    Clearly you are an apologist for religious murder.

    Gerry Adams and Martin McGuiness committed murder in the name of their church, as did Johnny Adair, Michael Stone and Billy Wright (look them up, I know you will have never heard of them) in the name of their religion.

    What made me sick about the entire thing is that it was sectarian violence, violence and hatred inbred into young people by their churches and religious leaders. Once group of sky fairy followers wanted the right to rule over the other and force them to live by their religious laws.

    You can make apologies for your religion if you like but please don’t tell lies or attempt to paint things as they are not.

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  116. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    He’s a sad case stigie.

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  117. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett (5,442 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 5:04 pm

    I can’t think of any cases, unless you include the old Catholic couple across the road from where I lived as a kid. They went to different Catholic churches because she hated being seen in public with him. She was always threatening to do him in!

    I haven’t been in a church for anything other than funerals, marriages and christenings for thirty years. The last church I was a member of (much to my Anglican parents disgust) was the Baptist Church Rev. Bridges preached at (Simon’s Dad). I was an active member of the Youth For Christ organisation, and used to hang out at the Lighthouse, a Christian nightclub in the inner city – and I don’t remember any fights – but it was when I was young, stupid and easily fooled. Christian guys used to be the cutest.

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  118. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    ….” Christian guys used to be the cutest”….

    What drugs were you taking Judith? :)

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  119. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ nasska (9,967 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 5:41 pm

    That was 1975-76. The second stage of my rebellion started in 1977 when I discovered the joys of sinning! ;-)

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  120. stigie (916 comments) says:

    ….” Christian guys used to be the cutest”….

    I would imagine you would be to experienced for those dudes Judith !~

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  121. publicwatchdog (2,107 comments) says:

    Here you go Kiwibloggers, a bit of light reading :)

    http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10092943/White-collar-criminals-hiding-in-cracks

    High time for NZ to ratify the UN Convention Against Corruption (UNCAC) and establish a genuinely Independent Commission Against Corruption.

    While we’re at it – where’s National’s review of ‘corporate welfare’?

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1111/S00095/wheres-nationals-corporate-welfare-reform.htm

    (Seems there is a link between corporate welfare and corruption?

    What are the connections between those awarding the contracts and those to whom the contracts are awarded?

    Seen this?

    https://at.govt.nz/about-us/procurement/awarded-contracts/

    Awarded contracts

    Auckland Transport is committed to ensuring its procurement activities are undertaken in an ethical and transparent manner.

    The attached lists detail all of the contracts awarded in the previous six months that are valued over $50,000.00. Details include:

    the contract number,
    the contract name,
    the supplier, and the
    award value.

    View the latest awarded contracts list (PDF 52KB)

    (https://at.govt.nz/media/353833/AwardedContracts.pdf )

    Disclaimer: we endeavour to list all contracts awarded above the value of $50,000.00 in the previous six months. Whilst all possible care and effort has been taken to ensure accuracy in this list, we accept no responsibility for any errors or omissions. Accordingly, this list should be used for reference only.”

    Now check for links between ‘contracts issued’ by Auckland Transport, and member companies for the Committee for Auckland:

    http://www.committeeforauckland.co.nz/membership/member-organisations

    (You may note that in a truly ‘transparent’ way – the Committee for Auckland membership list now no longer gives the NAMES of those who represent their companies?

    Gosh – I wonder why that is???

    Now look for that ‘devilish detail’ on the Auckland Council website regarding ‘contracts issued’?

    http://www.aucklandcouncil.govt.nz/EN/Pages/default.aspx

    Looking forward to the considered opinion of the ‘Taxpayers Union’ on these matters …..

    Penny Bright

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  122. stigie (916 comments) says:

    We dont expect you to pay yours rates Penny !~

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  123. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    Penny

    When can I come and view the house?

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  124. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/sx456qe1favekkt/Cuckoo%201.jpg

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  125. David Garrett (6,452 comments) says:

    Penny: Serious question…do you take regular medication? ( I ask in a caring and sharing way you understand…)

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  126. stigie (916 comments) says:

    Well, if it looks like that Nasska, i would rather live in a ‘P’ house ole chap !~

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  127. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ stigie (715 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 5:46 pm

    Sheesh, I was an angel when I first got involved – when I departed I had more in common with the devil! ;-)

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  128. UglyTruth (4,010 comments) says:

    Be under absolutely NO illusions: Islam don’t care about you or me or anyone;

    And We have sent you (O Muhammad ) not but as a mercy for the ‘Alamin (mankind, jinns and all that exists).
    Quran 21:107

    it only cares about the establishment of a Second Caliphate which to them equate with the return of Jesus Christ.

    In the Quran the caliphate refers to David, not to Christ.

    O Dawud (David)! Verily! We have placed you as a successor on earth, so judge you between men in truth (and justice) and follow not your desire for it will mislead you from the Path of Allah.
    Quran 38:26

    To accomplish this, Muslims will lie and deceive (with permission of the koran BTW), and do all and anything to achieve this.

    And whenever you give your word (i.e. judge between men or give evidence, etc.), say the truth even if a near relative is concerned, and fulfill the Covenant of Allah, This He commands you, that you may remember.
    Quran 6:152

    In addition, the ‘West’ is seen as decadent and has to be destroyed. The koran says so.

    So many fuckwits, so little time.

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  129. stigie (916 comments) says:

    And now Judith, you could fit in quite well with Johnboys way of life perhaps ?

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  130. David Garrett (6,452 comments) says:

    Christ…another one who needs medication…

    Me? regular lithium carbonate keeps the head chemicals on a fairly even keel….a certain double killer can put things out of whack though…

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  131. Judith (7,643 comments) says:

    @ stigie (716 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 6:16 pm

    Johnboy has a life?

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  132. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    I’m a tad fussy about the Ewe’s I share my home paddock with stigie!

    While Judith sounds like a possible contender, being less than 1.65m in diameter, just let me be the final judge of her suitability old chap! :)

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  133. stigie (916 comments) says:

    By the sounds of it Judith, its suppose to be quite spectacular ?

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  134. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Would you consider your lips to be Cascade, Electrolux or Dyson Judith? :)

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  135. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Johnboy’s life consists of more than posting on Kiwiblog and ‘worrying’ sheep.

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  136. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Im very ‘worried’ about how you reluctant Catholics will fare in the Hardham Cup milkey! :)

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  137. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    HOB will not be in the Hardham Cup.

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  138. mandk (823 comments) says:

    @ bb,
    I am familiar with Adair, Stone and Wright.
    They are all ultra-right wing thugs who hate Catholics.
    That doesn’t make the Protestant or any kind of Christian.
    When did they do anything in the name of their Lord Jesus Christ?

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  139. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    “HOB will not be in the Hardham Cup.”

    Noted that you left the “M” for “Marist” off milkey! :)

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  140. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    ‘Keep religion out of rugby’ remains one of my mottos.

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  141. SGA (815 comments) says:

    mikenmild at 6:35 pm

    ‘Keep religion out of rugby’ remains one of my mottos.

    Is rugby one of few (only?) sports where a “united” Ireland traditionally competes?

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  142. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Wikipedia is so helpful:
    ‘In Ireland, hockey, rowing, cricket, rugby union, are organised in an all-island basis, with a single team representing the whole of Ireland in international competitions. Other sports, such as soccer and netball, have separate organizing bodies in Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.’
    I think the gaelic sports might be organised Ireland-wide also.

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  143. PhilP (158 comments) says:

    I have often wondered where Redbaiter sits on the political spectrum. He’s a CC sympathizer but seems to me he would be a good fit for ACT, with his views. What do you think?

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  144. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    I think he belongs in a sheltered asylum.

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  145. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    PhilP

    As far as Baity is concerned ACT & the CCCP are dirty, socialist communists & probably homosexual, progressive scum.

    He’s far further to the Right of the political spectrum.

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  146. SGA (815 comments) says:

    mikenmild at 6:43 pm

    Wikipedia is so helpful: …

    Danke shun.

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  147. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Red has one redeeming feature…He hates Catholics milkey! :)

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  148. PhilP (158 comments) says:

    nasska, he must be so sad and lonely.

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  149. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    mandk

    Adair, Wright and Stone are Protestants, they murdered innocent and no so innocent Catholics for years. In return you had the same equally odious scum who killed in the name of the Roman Catholic church, the most visible of these low life were McGuiness and Adams.

    What annoys me is that you are well aware of these facts, yet because you are an apologist for religious terrorism you try and muddy the waters by claiming they were not real men of your god.

    Even a simpleton can understand that religion is at the heart of Irelands problems, even as late as the 1990′s divorce was illegal in Eire, this was due to the evil influence of the Roman Catholic church yet these same Catholics were more than happy to take over the north via terror (against the wishes of the Protestants) and enforce their religious law on all citizens of Ireland.

    Those of us who are keen to keep reminding others about the evil of Islam would do well to remember that our own superstitions are far from perfect when it comes to blowing people up or murdering innocent individuals.

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  150. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    I’m not overly fond of them myself, Johnboy.

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  151. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Do the Priests ever shout at the HOBM clubrooms milkey?

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  152. Redbaiter (7,640 comments) says:

    Want to know why Milky tends to classify anyone who challenges left wing conventional wisdom as insane?

    He’s an old style Marxist/ Leninist.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_abuse_of_psychiatry_in_the_Soviet_Union

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  153. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    He hasn’t been himself today PhilP. Last night he reached out for the Vaseline and picked up Vicks Vaporub by mistake. :)

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  154. stigie (916 comments) says:

    No PhilP, he does have his muscle car you know, just to piss off us progs !!~

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  155. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Don’t know Johnboy, I’m not that much of a club man. Went to the centenary bash a few years back, but didn’t notice any priests in evidence.

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  156. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Aw Reddy, it’s not an abuse of psychiatry if you have a genuine mental illness. Just follow the doctor’s instructions and it’ll turn out okay.

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  157. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    So you weren’t even there to see the lovely little girly Ref disallow the non-try then milkey?

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  158. mikenmild (10,765 comments) says:

    Missed that one

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  159. Johnboy (14,998 comments) says:

    Best looking Ref I’ve ever seen! :)

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  160. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    His cock may be eight inches shorter than the average woman’s dildo but Baity’s got the wheels.

    He Da Man! :)

    Ref: https://www.dropbox.com/s/z5q02xwx9i4czmb/Wankstain%201.jpg

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  161. stigie (916 comments) says:

    Thought he was trading back to a Skoda Nasska, the muscle car being too showey ?

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  162. mandk (823 comments) says:

    bb
    Ok, find me a statement from any of the people you mentioned that shows they did what they did in the name of their Lord Jesus Christ.

    The difference between Adair et al and Islamic terrorists is that the latter really do commit atrocities in the name of their god. Islamic terrorists are fighting what they regard as a holy war.

    Republican and Unionist terrorists in Northern Ireland are equally despicable, but they are not faith-driven.

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  163. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    bigot bruv is proving himself to be the bigot he is.

    None of the IRA killing was ever done in the name of the Roman catholic church,it was done in the name of the Irish Republic. To this day that tradition recalls the United Irishmen of 1798 ,the leaders of which were protestants inspired by the American and French revolutions.

    The RC church was always and from the outset opposed to republican violence,vehemently so and to the extent of denying the gunmen the sacraments.Most of the early victims of their violence were Irish Catholic policemen,some of whom were shot coming out of and on the steps of Church.

    http://irishmedals.org/r-i-c-d-m-p-k-i-a-.html

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  164. nasska (10,680 comments) says:

    I was invited to a Muslim wedding yesterday. To be honest, the reception was not much different from a regular bash, with kids running riot & sliding across the dance floor on their knees.

    All of a sudden, Mohammed gets up & gives a young girl of about eight who was rolling about the floor a smack, tells her to behave & to go sit with her mother. “That was a bit harsh” I said, “In NZ, we expect kids to be a bit lively at a wedding reception”

    “Maybe so” he growled, “However, in Islam we expect a bit more decorum from the bride.”

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  165. kowtow (7,643 comments) says:

    http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-03-04/news/8501120692_1_northern-ireland-irish-republican-army-gunmen-royal-ulster-constabulary-officers

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  166. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    mandk & kowtow

    I am amazed that you two are so furiously trying to rewrite history, your attempts are almost up there with the very best of our left wing politicians.

    The violence was (and remains) of a sectarian nature. Of course it does have other elements however the main dividing line which remains to this day is drawn down sectarian lines.

    The pair of you are a disgrace, you are nothing more than religious apologists who will stop at nothing to hide the evil committed in the name of your god.

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  167. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    Moroney’s paid parental leave bill set to fail as Flavell is not in the house.

    Not only is this fucking hilarious but it is a win for the tax payer.

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  168. mandk (823 comments) says:

    bb,

    Sorry, but that’s a feeble response.
    I’m not an apologist for anything, and I explicitly condemned the atrocities done by Adams, Adair et al.
    I invited you to demonstrate that what the terrorists in N Ireland have done was in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
    Still waiting.

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  169. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ big bruv

    Even a simpleton can understand that religion is at the heart of Irelands problems

    Then kindly explain to this simpleton, if you don’t mind, why Irish Catholics and Protestants lived in peace together, wherever they immigrated in the world – England, Scotland (with the exception of Celtic vs Rangers, & Hibs vs Hearts), Canada, USA, Australia, and New Zealand.

    Ulster is a localised feud, with religion as the initial cause some 350 years ago, but it has long subsided into the excuse for the ridiculous conflict.

    Bigots come in many guises, religious, agnostic and athiest, with their doctrine and ideology causing, shaping but also justifying the baser aspects of their existing human nature. Get rid of religion and you may get some localised reduction of the problem in some cases…but you can be very sure people will soon find another quasi-religious reason to start another feud.

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  170. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    Kimbo

    Your claim that Catholics and Protestants live together peacefully in Scotland is laughable. I lived in Scotland for nearly seven years, the religious divide in Glasgow in particular is still as strong and still as vicious.

    “Ulster is a localised feud, with religion as the initial cause some 350 years ago, but it has long subsided into the excuse for the ridiculous conflict.”

    Thank you for admitting that I was right. I do take issue with you however that the religious element has subsided. When you have religion indoctrinating its young to hate the other side then there will always be violent young men (as Adams, McGuiness, Adair and co all are) willing to take up the fight. If anything they use their religion as some sort of shield to hide behind, however one should never forget that the root cause of the problems (as you have admitted) is religion.

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  171. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    But other than a few loaclised pockets in Glasgow and Edinburgh (which I acknowledged in my original post, and where the Protestants are Scottish, rather than Orangemen) we are in agreement this Irish Catholic/Protestant sectarian violence is NOT an issue in New Zealand (which was the original locus of discussion), or Canada, USA, and Australia…

    If not…why not?

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  172. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    Kimbo

    You really need to stop digging. All over Scotland there are orange march’s, it is not an uncommon thing at all to see them. It is just about a bloody requirement to obtain a Rangers FC season ticket that one is also an Orangeman.

    Now, to the question you posed. (Which is really nothing more than a diversionary tactic given that this debate started by somebody making the ridiculous assertion that there were very few conflicts of religious origins)

    The reason so many live in peace in the countries you name is self evident, by and large NZ, Aus and Canada are secular nations and while the USA is a country that is fucked up by religion it is at least free from religions evil influence because of the constitution.

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  173. big bruv (13,314 comments) says:

    mandk

    “I’m not an apologist for anything, and I explicitly condemned the atrocities done by Adams, Adair et al.”

    You are an apologist if you refuse to admit that these atrocities were committed in the name of your god.

    You speak as if religion is some sort of force for good in the world when clearly all the evidence proves that it is not.

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  174. mandk (823 comments) says:

    “If anything they use their religion as some sort of shield to hide behind”

    So we’re agreed, bb, it’s not actually religious.

    It’s tribal.

    btw, I lived in Scotland longer than you did, and sectarianism is now but a shadow of its former self. The vast majority of Scots have no time for it. The Orange Order is looked upon as a joke, and all but a few blue-nosed Rangers fans are happy that Catholics play for the club.

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  175. mandk (823 comments) says:

    “You are an apologist if you refuse to admit that these atrocities were committed in the name of your god”

    Yes, I do refuse to admit that, and I have invited you to prove me wrong.

    I’m still waiting for you to show me that the atrocities related to the NI conflict were committed in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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  176. SPC (5,392 comments) says:

    So a day on GD, of attack of Moslems, Marxists and feminists – as Christians, without mentioning their own religion, attack those not subservient to their own order of rule.

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  177. mandk (823 comments) says:

    SPC, Christians (me included) prefer to call it contending for the faith.
    We gave up using thumb screws and the rack on heretics and non-believers ages ago :-)

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  178. Odakyu-sen (441 comments) says:

    Just got back from fishing out on the Hauraki Gulf, off the northeastern side of Waiheke. Got 3 snapper and 5 large slimy mackerel. The only fish with glazed eyes swimming around in circles was one small Marxist yellow-tailed mackerel that the skipper used as live Redbait for kingfish (which wouldn’t touch it).

    I spent about an hour on the back deck this evening, scaling, gutting and filleting my catch. (I eat what I kill.) I tried a bit of the mackerel as sashimi, and it was delicious!

    I tell you, we are lucky indeed to be able to enjoy the outdoors here in New Zealand!

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  179. Manolo (13,384 comments) says:

    The Pope denies being a Catholic: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2641713/Im-NOT-WEAK-Obama-hits-foreign-policy-critics-vows-ramp-support-Syrian-rebels.html

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  180. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ big bruv

    Now, to the question you posed. (Which is really nothing more than a diversionary tactic given that this debate started by somebody making the ridiculous assertion that there were very few conflicts of religious origins)

    The reason so many live in peace in the countries you name is self evident, by and large NZ, Aus and Canada are secular nations and while the USA is a country that is fucked up by religion it is at least free from religions evil influence because of the constitution.

    Hmm. Cheers. Interesting post.

    Your problem with that analysis is that neither Canada, Australia, nor New Zealand were secular countries at their inception – when Catholics and Protestants were living side by side, forging a nation. Instead, through legislation like Emancipation of Catholics in the UK in the 1820s, a religious country legislated itself due to religious motivations (equality and justice for all before the law) into a non-sectarian nation. And colonial societies which drew its settlers from that homeland reflected that arrangement (although obviously bigotry remained at a social level, just like it remained towards black Americans after the Civil War. “Haters gonna hate”!)

    But “non-sectarian” is actually NOT the same as “secular”. And constitutionally New Zealand remains non-sectarian, rather than secular. There is not much between the two of them, but I would have thought non-sectariansim is a pragmatic approach, compared to, say, France, which tears itself apart every couple of generations, trying to impose a purist and unworkable secular Utopia on its citizens.

    Nevertheless, you make a good case that legal safeguards are required to keep freedom from religion, and the almost unstoppable desire of its adherents to control others in place.

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  181. Kimbo (671 comments) says:

    @ big bruv

    Also, just to be pedantic, the initial discussion was not framed by “the ridiculous assertion that there were very few conflicts of religious origins”. Instead, it was kicked off by David Garret’s invitation in response to a discussion about religious conflict IN NEW ZEALAND, and it was Scott Chris, mandk, and yourself who went wandering off the reservation, as follows: -

    Judith (6,305 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 10:44 am
    Scott (1,632 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 10:32 am
    This is what is happening in New Zealand right now among Muslims–

    “The right-hand man of a Muslim leader at the centre of an Auckland mosque row has been charged with threatening to kill.

    yeah, like that has never happened in New Zealand before among non-Muslims.

    David Garrett (5,450 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 11:00 am
    Judith: Please do point us to the occasion where a member of some faction of a Christian church – any old bizarre sect of cranks will do – was charged with threatening to kill a member of a rival faction…Just in your own time…I am off to run errands…back in a couple of hours…that should give you plenty of time..

    Scott Chris (5,757 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 2:18 pm
    point us to the occasion where a member of some faction of a Christian church – any old bizarre sect of cranks will do – was charged with threatening to kill a member of a rival faction

    Umm, Protestants vs Catholics in Northern Ireland for starters.

    mandk (776 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 3:18 pm
    Scott Chris: “Protestants vs Catholics in Northern Ireland for starters”

    You’re talking about rival tribes there. How many IRA-types invoked Jesus, Mary and Joseph before letting off bombs? And how many UVF-types quoted the Geneva Bible to justify their actions?

    big bruv (12,513 comments) says:
    May 28th, 2014 at 3:30 pm
    “You’re talking about rival tribes there. How many IRA-types invoked Jesus, Mary and Joseph before letting off bombs? And how many UVF-types quoted the Geneva Bible to justify their actions?”

    Nice!….making excuses for religious bigots now.

    —————————-

    And away we went…

    I DON’T dispute for a moment that religion can and does cause conflict, although I don’t think invariably. And neither is it necessarily the primary cause. Nonetheless you’ve given your reason why it doesn’t occur on New Zealand – secularism.

    Mind you, since when does passing a law make something so, especially at asocial level?! Maybe, even though they had a violent past, there was something inherent WITHIN Protestantism and Catholicism that opened them up to significant and lasting reform (pockets of Ulster and Glasgow aside – which others have argued is no longer primarily religious in nature. Sure, religious language is used, as you would expect when religion is the excuse).

    Whereas Islam, which in its purist and natural form DEMANDS a fusion of mosque and state, is destined for inevitable conflict with non-Muslims. That is the argument. Not that I necessarily agree, as Turkey, a Muslim country has had a secular constitution and government for nearly 100 years…

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