The ABC faction say no to a Mana-Dotcom alliance

May 31st, 2014 at 9:00 am by David Farrar

David Cunliffe has been careful to not rule doing a deal with the to form a Government.  And despite the public statements about wanting to win te Tai Tokerau, multiple sources say the Matt McCarten is battling to give Mana the seat (and Matt helped set Mana up, and took over the Alliance from Mana)

What is fascinating is the number of MPs who are going against the leadership, and condemning what Mana and Dotcom have done – in quick strident language.

First you had Chris Hipkins:

So Chris is calling Hone and Laila unprincipled sellouts. Then Kelvin Davis says what he really thinks:

Interestingly Kelvin appears to have now deleted the tweet, but he calls Dotcom by the name normally used by Whale Oil.

Then we have former Labour Leader Phil Goff:

goff1

goff2

Goff says (correctly) Dotcom is trying to buy the political system. His Facebook post also appears to have now been deleted, so it looks like the leadership is trying to whip the caucus into line and stop them criticising the Mana-Dotcom Alliance. Because the more they criticise it, the harder it is for Cunliffe not to rule them out of a coalition.

I’ll be very very interested to see a poll in Te Tai Tokerau. I’m not sure voters there will be any more keen on Kim Dotcom purchasing a political party, than these Labour MPs are. David can win the seat by just campaigning on this issue. The question is – will he be allowed to?

Also of amusement is that the Internet Party Leader’s new press secretary is Pam Corkery, so it really is the Alliance being reunited. But what is very amusing is that Laila Harre only found out that Corkery was her press secretary while on radio:

Can’t make this up.

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119 Responses to “The ABC faction say no to a Mana-Dotcom alliance”

  1. deadrightkev (427 comments) says:

    As usual Labour has made a bad strategic decision if it is in fact true what they are reporting. I think an anti KDC stance is a subterfuge myself and if so poor Kelvin Davis will be toilet paper again.

    It makes perfect strategic sense to encourage the non voting youth to the ballot box as most will be left thinkers with entitlitis and a cell phone bolted to their foreheads. Easy prey for KDC who knows how to access their playgrounds.

    If the right think KDC is not capable of mobilising the left through some innovative internet related recruitment application or bribe then they do so at their own peril.

    Any voter in that left non voting bloc is going to strengthen the left bloc for Labour and they only need a small swing to grab victory. Beware. This election is anyones.

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  2. Grant (436 comments) says:

    While I agree with the thrust of Goff’s comments, he appears to have overlooked the cosy arrangement that I seem to recall his party had with Anderton in Christchurch. (Am happy to be corrected if that wasn’t the case).
    G

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  3. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  4. tas (613 comments) says:

    These are the rules of MMP. It’s a rort, but I blame the game more than the players.

    I hope Hone crashes and burns in TTT and the IMP takes a lot of left wing votes down with it.

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  5. Nostalgia-NZ (5,101 comments) says:

    ‘Because the more they criticise it, the harder it is for Cunliffe not to rule them out of a coalition.’

    Copy that.

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  6. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    The TTT contest is going to be interesting to watch…I got to know Kelvin Davis when we were both there, and I quickly saw that he is a man of principle, and perhaps more importantly in this context, not a man afraid to buck the party line. If they have got him back to stand as a candidate on the understanding he can campaign to win, he wont take kindly to now being told “Oh no, we want you just to go for the party vote, we need Hone to get the seat.”

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  7. Viking2 (11,371 comments) says:

    What a fuck up and National can only blame themselves.
    MMP was Bolgers major contribution to NZ.
    Indeed the only one of any note.

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  8. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    This speaks volumes about the strength of leadership of the Labour party. Where senior MPs and members of the party feel free to mouth off their personal opinions to the detriment of potential coalition arrangements, it means they obviously do not fear reprisal action from Cunliffe.

    I feel a little sorry for Cunliffe, there is no positive way he can spin the new InterMana positive creation. If they are a genuine coalition party it totally sucks the wind out of their sails when it comes to the right supporting a Conservative/ACT seat. InterMana has potential to take further votes away from the Labour, and they are already bleeding votes to the Greens. It means if the Left do by some miracle win this election it will be an exceptionally weak Labour stake in leadership – think of all the concessions that they will have to make to cobble together a coalition government. Imagine what Cabinet would look like?

    Cunliffe as PM
    Parker in Finance (please christ not Norman)
    Turei in Education
    Harawira in … trade?
    Peters in Immigration (haha!)

    I actually believe the biggest winner out of the creation of the Inter-Mana party is the Maori party. The left leaning Maori vote is already being fragmented by the Labour-Mana vote, and I reckon the typical Maori voter will fail to connect with the Fat Kaiser.

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  9. WineOh (630 comments) says:

    Wasn’t it Hone who accused Sharples and others in the Maori Party of “selling out”? Oh the irony is too rich.

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  10. Brian Smaller (4,007 comments) says:

    Phil Goff’s utter hypocrisy talking about Act and Epsom and ignoring Jim Anderton and Wigram makes him just as much as a crook as those he is decrying.

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  11. deadrightkev (427 comments) says:

    “I actually believe the biggest winner out of the creation of the Inter-Mana party is the Maori party.”

    Maori youth use smartphones like other youth and many are not motivated to vote, even for the Maori party. If Hone and KDC ignite a spark of rebellion in the non voting Maori youth it will be bad news for the Maori party and the right especially.

    It will be good for Labour because the left bloc will strengthen and Labour has the biggest party share so DC will be PM.

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  12. Grant (436 comments) says:

    So interesting to see that Trotter is extremely exercised by Kelvin Davis’ comments. At TDB he’s calling for Cunliffe to sort him out.
    I’m just fascinated by the way the uber lefties like him and Bradbury cant stand to hear an opposing point of view, and continually call for the muzzling of the proleteriat. Perhaps its because they believe that dotcom is the only way they’ll see off John Key, and in this case the ends certainly justifies the means.
    G

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  13. rouppe (963 comments) says:

    Everyone saying that ACT is using the coat tail provision are wrong. How many MP’s do ACT have in Parliament? One. There would only be a coat tail if another had followed.

    And in any case, ACT is an autonomous party. This bringing together of two parties that are fundamentally at opposite ends of the political spectrum purely because they have a common enemy, that truly is an alliance of Hitler and Stalin proportions.

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  14. davidp (3,578 comments) says:

    Dotcom has turned the opposition in to a circus. You can’t blame us for wanting to laugh at the clowns.

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  15. Manolo (13,518 comments) says:

    Silent T has kept silent. I’m sure he is supporting this farce as long as his socialist mob gains political power.
    How many politicians, lawyers and hacks has the German fraudster corrupted so far?

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  16. trout (934 comments) says:

    There is a persistent myth that the Nats tell Epsom voters to vote for Act. This instruction exists only on the minds of the media. Epsom voters vote for Act because they can count; plain and simple. It is made out that it is some kind of rort; it is not; it is the way MMP is meant to work: ‘vote strategically and make your vote count’. The infamous ‘cup of tea’ was a media stunt which would have had no effect on the voting; it was a sop to the media who wanted the event to happen – and the Nats now see it for the tactical blunder it was. Not quite in the same class as Brash’s prevarication over his contacts with the Brethren but it comes close.

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  17. Judith (8,534 comments) says:

    @ davidp (3,416 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 9:59 am

    A circus that may very well roll into town.

    There are five reasons that could get them there:

    1. The ‘none of the above vote’ – there is a lot of confusion in the electorate. Many feel their lives have not improved under National, but don’t like Cunliffe and would never vote Green. The IP/Mana alliance gives them a way to vote for a party that could never take power – but demonstrate their disgust with the current poltical climate.

    2. Student and parents of students vote – none of the other parties seem the least bit interested in addressing the mess that tertiary education has become in this country. Issues of student loans, valueless qualifications, lack of support, and now, money removed from some disciplines to support others, are all very valid to this voting group.

    3. Technology buffs – the Internet Party makes sense to some (don’t ask me how, but they do).

    4. Some people actually support KDC. Believe what he is accused of is not a crime. Then there are the Mana party members that do support the alliance.

    and the fifth reason – illusion – this has fooled human kind for many many centuries, no reason to believe it won’t do the same again now. A new party has a sense of magic about it. Never underestimate the power of illusion.

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  18. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,872 comments) says:

    If Cunliffe and Co are going to attempt to muzzle Mr Davis I wonder what effect a couple or really big donations to his electorate office might allow him to do. Half a million or so.

    He could buy a hell of a lot of advertising and of course he would not be saddled with the embarrassing presence or his ersatz leader on the campaign trail. I imagine Ngati Hine might not react too well to the notion that a fat Nazi has bought himself the disreputable Mana party. (the late Sir James Henare of Ngati Hine commanded a company of the 28th battalion at Monte Cassino where a significant number of fat and skinny nazis were shot by Northland’s finest.)

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  19. eszett (2,396 comments) says:

    Goff says (correctly) Dotcom is trying to buy the political system.

    Interesting coming from you, who opposes any kind of financial restrictions on political donations and who ran that infamous billboard campaign against the EFA.

    So at what amount does stop being freedom of speech and becoming “buying the political system”? How is different from what Colin Craig is doing?

    Incidentally I completely agree with you, however I cannot deny the satisfaction of hearing the squealing of Nat supporters just because they get a taste of their own medicine.

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  20. kiwi in america (2,428 comments) says:

    I suspect that Cunliffe will allow bluster and strong fighting words to substitute for money or action on the ground in TTT. Davis will fight for sure as he is a man of principle but Cunliffe will stay very silent on this whole matter sensing the growing public groundswell of opposition to this odious deal (see Stuff poll http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/ now at 55% saying “Its Gobsmaking hypocrisy” almost 4 x more than those saying “Political Masterstroke”).

    Key and McCully need to be talking and preparing to ease McCully from East Coast Bays to the list so that the 2-3% for the Conservatives is not wasted. Whilst this bizarre alliance likely will cannibalise votes from the Greens and some from Labour, $3 million will get some new voters out perhaps enough to get Harre into Parliament. The ECB arrangement makes Dotcom’s crass attempt an electoral wash plus it will be harder for National’s opponents to decry after the shabbiness of Harawira and Mana’s sell out.

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  21. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Adolf: I believe the Maoris (as they were then known; the lack of plural came later) were more fond of the bayonet weren’t they?

    Those stalwart fellows must be spinning in their graves at this travesty…an admirer of Adolf teaming up with their mokopuna..worse, buying them off…

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  22. Peter (1,690 comments) says:

    I’m a tech guy. Been on the internet since Archie. I work in tech.

    There is nothing tech about the Internet Party. As for KDC, he ran a file storage company. There is nothing innovative in file storage, the only “innovation” was ” getting stuff free”.

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  23. Psycho Milt (2,406 comments) says:

    …I wonder what effect a couple or really big donations to his electorate office might allow him to do. Half a million or so.

    Indeed, one wonders what effect getting hefty donations from right-wingers would do for a Labour candidate’s campaign – I guess the main effect would be the total destruction of his credibility as a Labour candidate. For an analogy, suppose one of the less-obnoxious Nat candidates were to receive wholehearted support from the unions…

    As usual Labour has made a bad strategic decision…

    It’s not that simple. Labour has a dilemma here: Hone Harawira would be a complete pain in the arse to be in government with, let alone teamed up with Laila Harre, Annette Sykes and John Minto, so they’d much rather that Mana-Internet got no MPs. However, it’s not like Labour/Greens is so wildly popular they can turn their noses up at potential coalition partners. So, there’s the dilemma: if Mana-Internet are likely to get 2-3% of the vote, Labour would be nuts to have Kelvin Davis win Te Tai Tokerau and lose that 2-3% for the left. On the other hand, if Mana-Internet end up getting only 1%, Labour would be nuts to let Harawira have the seat and keep Mana-Internet a going concern.

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  24. mikenmild (11,247 comments) says:

    David, as I understand, the Maori language does not have a plural -s and never did. ‘Maoris’ is a European invention and using that term these days denotes someone firmly stuck in the past.

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  25. Peter (1,690 comments) says:

    Labour should take the high road, for 2017 s sake.

    They have an opportunity here to display integrity. They will blow it, of course, and be lumped in with the sellouts. This may well see many of their safe vote stay home in disgust.

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  26. Ross12 (1,391 comments) says:

    As pointed out in the NBR article yesterday –Hone only beat Kelvin by 1000 votes last time. So all this talk that about TTT being absolutely safe for Hone is rubbish.
    As I said yesterday I hope if Kelvin gets strong armed he sticks to his principles and goes independent. ( or at least campaigns like crazy and wins for Labour)

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  27. s.russell (1,603 comments) says:

    In the short term, yes, it is in Labour’s interest for Harawira to retain his seat. This maximize s Cunliffe’s chances of becoming PM. Long term the IMP is a millstone around Labours neck as it makes the left more of a circus. Their best move would be to destroy Hone and co if they can, but they are too greedy and impatient to try that.

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  28. gravedodger (1,546 comments) says:

    @ mikenmild 10 38, put that horse shit around your roses.
    It was only a very short time ago that two Maoris were changed into two Maori.
    I have a very successful and entrepreneurial Mate of Maori descent who often asks would I like some “PAUAS”.
    He has access to a bit of nice protected Kaimoana(s) and is passably fluent in the language.

    There were a lot more Maoris at Cassino than Maori but rewriting history is so much fun eh bro.

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  29. Pete George (23,437 comments) says:

    “These are the rules of MMP. It’s a rort, but I blame the game more than the players.”

    It’s only partly the game rules’ fault. Thresholds and coat tailing are fiddles designed to benefit the larger parties.

    But any democratic system will only ever be as good as the players (in particular) and the voters make of it. The desperation for power will corrupt any system.

    The biggest problem is that there is no provision for a ‘pox on all their houses’ vote. More and more voters protest by withdrawing from the game but that doesn’t punish the manipulators and the corrupters of democracy.

    It’s a huge irony that the IMP circus thinks they can pick up the votes of the disillusioned (or the never illusioned).

    There’s a huge opportunuty for a principled party but there’s no sign of getting one. the system and the turn off is against it. The two latest political incarnations are attempts by rich people to buy power.

    We are seeing what happens when greed for power shits on democracy. Even what appeared to be sensible and reasonable people have been sucked in to the sewer.

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  30. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    Hidden due to low comment rating. Click here to see.

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  31. wf (420 comments) says:

    It’s all a marvellous diversion isn’t it?

    Endless variations and combinations and nothing of substance. The emerging leadership of IP is causing hilarity and disinterest in equal proportions, and one can only hope that the season of trivia will pass as their energy dissipates.
    As Peter says – we can only hope that Labour maintains its dignity, and that the voters keep their heads.

    I think I’d vote for iP if their leader was that cute teenager who rang his Nana in the Vodafone ad – now how trivial is that? Haha.

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  32. Psycho Milt (2,406 comments) says:

    There is one way for Labour to take it to National over this. If the Nats feel so strongly that the Mana-Internet deal is wrong, they and Labour have the votes necessary to implement the commission’s recommendations re the threshold and electorate seat ‘coattailing.’ They could agree to change the rules after this election to ensure these kinds of rorts can’t happen again. What an enjoyable test of integrity it would be for its witnesses – us, the voters…

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  33. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,872 comments) says:

    “Thresholds and coat tailing are fiddles designed to benefit the larger parties.”

    Are you mad?

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  34. Pete George (23,437 comments) says:

    AF – it’s the large parties that have put the current system in p;lace and retained the current system and who do what they can to manipulate it to their example. And our system makes it very difficult for any new party unless it has a a rich financier.

    It’s human and political nature for any system, especially one that distorts democracy, to gradually get corrupted by those seeking exclusive power.

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  35. Nostalgia-NZ (5,101 comments) says:

    Finally I see the fingerprints, Mc Carten. Who else, or who was first in under the wing. We may be watching a very clever enterprise with Mc Carten if not in the middle – then not far off.

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  36. All_on_Red (1,559 comments) says:

    I think Hone proved quite well in the last Election that you don’t really need money to win. Nothing can really beat grass roots door knocking

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  37. ross411 (597 comments) says:

    Judith (6,380 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 9:12 am
    The sad fact remains, the game is on, and there appear to be no rules. Each side will now do everything and anything they can to get the job. No doubt once they are there, they think they can then control it their way. There will be no controlling the monster that they have all helped create. No matter who wins – we Kiwis will be the losers.

    The saddest thing I ever did see
    Was a woodpecker peckin’ at a plastic tree.
    He looks at me, and “Friend,” says he,
    “Things ain’t as sweet as they used to be.”
    Peckin’ – Shel Silverstein

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  38. Kiwi Dave (84 comments) says:

    mikenmild @ 10.38

    The -s plural is far the most common way of pluralising nouns in English, which is why I also say ‘Samoans’ when speaking English even though I know the Samoan language does not have an -s plural form, no Samoan word ends in a consonant, and the -ns- sound combination does not exist in that language.

    It is perfectly normal and unexceptionable for people to modify words when they are imported into another language, which is why I don’t object to words such as ‘tiriti’, imagine that Wiremu Hopihona is an insult, and never felt the slightest offence when former colleagues called me Tavita or Rawiri.

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  39. ross411 (597 comments) says:

    Peter (1,518 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 10:35 am
    I’m a tech guy. Been on the internet since Archie. I work in tech.

    Sounds legit. I’m sold.

    For your next post, can you tell us how you’re both a priest/psychologist and how in David Cunliffe’s face you recognise the signs of someone who has sold their soul to the devil.

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  40. tom hunter (4,711 comments) says:

    …. one wonders what effect getting hefty donations from right-wingers would do for a Labour candidate’s campaign – I guess the main effect would be the total destruction of his credibility as a Labour candidate.

    That would depend on whether the donors could be identified as “right-wing”. Apparently one can be not just a multi-millionaire capitalist but one who exemplifies the worst of capitalist excesses and yet donate millions to members of the hard-left safe in the knowledge that their “credibility” will not be destroyed at all – at least not by many fellow lefties. Moreover the donor won’t even have his ideological leanings questioned at all, or has someone actually asked Dotcom in depth about his ideological and/or political beliefs?

    Interesting coming from you, who opposes any kind of financial restrictions on political donations and who ran that infamous billboard campaign against the EFA.

    So at what amount does stop being freedom of speech and becoming “buying the political system”? How is different from what Colin Craig is doing?

    Whatever disagreements one might have with the likes of Bob Jones, Alan Gibbs, Colin Craig and others they’ve all talked at length about multiple aspects about what they want to do in government for ideological reasons.

    By contrast everyone understands exactly what Dotcom is doing here: pouring money into one single factor – to buy his way out of being extradited to the USA to face trial. It does not get more corrupt than that.

    The Act party and their National party sponsors are closer to anything advocated by the Nazis than Mana or the Internet party. You sad little man.

    And then you whine about all the anarchists getting shot by the likes of Stalin and company or how the revolution has been taken over by totalitarians. You’ve learned nothing in decades about political enemies. No wonder your ideology makes no headway. Idiot.

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  41. nasska (11,198 comments) says:

    The parties of the Left are well endowed with rat cunning but short on the intellectual firepower that would be necessary to create a blueprint for the crap to be cobbled together.

    I suspect we can thank our missing correspondent Mr Edgler for that.

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  42. Sir Cullen's Sidekick (872 comments) says:

    Very simple trick here folks. The game plan is as follows:

    1. Kelvin Kamikaze Davis will be given a high list placing by Matt the Chief McCarten. That is the very first indication of a “deal”. Watch out for the list placing as the very first indicator.

    2. Messiah Cunliffe and his cronies will pretend that they are holier than thou until 3-4 weeks before election. They will be saying Kamikaze Davis is all out to trounce Horny Hone. He will be campaigning hard to win the seat. Insults will fly from both sides to fool the people and MSM.

    3. Just two weeks before election, Messiah Cunliffe will make a statement that this election is too close and the right block is fighting hard with money from Chinese donors. Still no sign for Kamikaze Davis to press the trigger. Status quo.

    4. Just one week before election Messiah will issue a war cry saying NZ needs to be saved from the monster that is John Key and every single person of the left block needs to be united in the fight against evil. He will quote J K Rowling and say
    “We are only as strong as we are united, as weak as we are divided”. This is the code for Kamikaze to press the trigger

    5. Now Kamikaze will call Horny Hone as a “bro” and he will say both are united in their fight against the evil Key. He will say it doesn’t matter who wins. He will also say by voting for Horny, they will get two MPs. The catch phrase is “Vote one, get one free”. The voters who are so used to “freebies” will think that they are getting something for “free”. They will vote Horny. Kaboom…..trigger pressed by Kamikaze David.

    Labour-Green-Mana-DotCon-NZ First-Maori government will be formed and NZ will become the Banana Republic of the South Pacific.

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  43. ross411 (597 comments) says:

    Nostalgia-NZ (4,786 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 11:23 am
    Finally I see the fingerprints, Mc Carten. Who else, or who was first in under the wing. We may be watching a very clever enterprise with Mc Carten if not in the middle – then not far off.

    Isn’t Matt McCarten an unrepentant thief? I can’t believe this guy was in charge of a union, and stole his employees money, just deciding to give it to the Labour party? He definitely sounds like he is a conniver.

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  44. eszett (2,396 comments) says:

    Whatever disagreements one might have with the likes of Bob Jones, Alan Gibbs, Colin Craig and others they’ve all talked at length about multiple aspects about what they want to do in government for ideological reasons.

    By contrast everyone understands exactly what Dotcom is doing here: pouring money into one single factor – to buy his way out of being extradited to the USA to face trial. It does not get more corrupt than that.

    So it’s okay to “buy the political system” as long as you have an ideology?
    Since when did motivation ever play in a role in the argument that money is free speech?
    It’s not corrupt just because you have a political conviction?

    I agree with you what Dotcom’s motivations are and am absolutely appalled by it ( the amount and the way he is going about it)

    However if your mantra is that money is equal to free speech and you are allowed to spend on political campaigns as much as you want, then you cannot be upset by what dotcom is doing.

    Unless of course, you wish to set up some sort of a political litmus test before someone spends their money.

    Dotcom is just playing your game by your rules.

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  45. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,872 comments) says:

    PG

    The system to which you refer was designed to help the SMALL parties.

    You know, the ones which were always moaning about FFP.

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  46. Adolf Fiinkensein (2,872 comments) says:

    McCarten appears to be the only rabid dog from the left who is not residing in the Coatesville menagerie.

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  47. goldnkiwi (1,265 comments) says:

    Makes you wonder how much Shane new or suspected, he has been pretty loyal, all things considered.

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  48. Reid (16,230 comments) says:

    It’s quite hypocritical isn’t it that many of the people loudly proclaiming how the IP-Mana merger is mere politics are the very same people who loudly decry all sorts of ethical-but-legal violations of the precise same nature in the capitalist arena. Such as, for example, their loud railing about the evils of the rapacious bankers, the evils of those who operate and invest in planet-raping industries, the evils of those who operate and invest in people-raping industries (i.e. defence), etc.

    You’d think one day they’d get a clue, wouldn’t you, so blatant are their double-standards. But no. For the lefty, the cause makes everything OK, it cleanses any and every evil, no matter what it is, making everything absolutely, utterly and entirely defensible, so long as its done for the cause. Of course the fact that this is the precise same argument used by every single evil tyrant in both commerce and politics to publicly justify their behaviour, escapes the fanatical lefty’s tiny, narrow little mind, so infatuated are they, with the siren call of their sacred cause.

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  49. Pete George (23,437 comments) says:

    “The system to which you refer was designed to help the SMALL parties.’

    That’s not supported by what has happened under MMP. It helps medium to small parties, especially those with a foothold in Parliament already. But it is stacked against any new small party and especially SMALL parties. I think this stacking is deliberate.

    Sure it tolerates some fragments of the current large party system but those fragments are marginalised if they get into any position of influence (in a coalition) and lose their identity and their effectiveness.

    Adolf, which small party last succeeded in joining the Parliamentary mix that didn’t already have a toe or two in the house?

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  50. Pete George (23,437 comments) says:

    And any MPs or aspiring MPs with any independence or ambition get squashed out of the way. Shane Jones is a good example. And his replacement Kelvin Davis is getting blasted by the Left who want much bigger things than letting someone compete in a democracy.

    Chris Trotter demonstrates this when he jumps the shark in Authoritarian Labour: Why Kelvin Davis needs to STFU – and soon!

    http://thedailyblog.co.nz/2014/05/30/authoritarian-labour-why-kelvin-davis-needs-to-stfu-and-soon/

    Large parties and large ambitions shit on any semblance of real democracy.

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  51. G152 (280 comments) says:

    Phil Goff’s utter hypocrisy talking about Act and Epsom and ignoring Jim Anderton and Wigram makes him just as much as a crook as those he is decrying.

    And he’s Liebors spokesthing for veterans affairs.
    The same wank who did all that protesting against those same vets when they were doing their duty.

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  52. Southern Raider (1,800 comments) says:

    All National needs to do is build a website with all the Alliance content and photos and then to the before and after comparison with Internet Mana. Could be quite a cool game.

    Even the most poxy teenager isn’t going to vote for them after that

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  53. Reid (16,230 comments) says:

    Large parties and large ambitions shit on any semblance of real democracy.

    The average voter shits on any semblance of decent govt because they’re political morons Pete. That’s the real problem.

    i.e. Churchills quote about the problem with democracy being discovered through having a 5 min conversation with the average voter, our utterly mental MMP electing fools and morons every single time, etc etc etc.

    It’s true that by definition the average voter can’t possibly be an intellectual moron, but for some reason, the average voter really truly in fact is a political moron. i.e. the average voter has no idea how politics works (it took them about 3 elections to understand we had TWO votes, not just one, for example); thinks TVNZ, Campbell Live, Stuff and NZHerald provide balanced, insightful and penetrating coverage; think that profound media lightweights like e.g. Guyon Espiner are actually real politically brainy heavyweights, etc etc etc.

    None of this of course is fair, reasonable or sensible, but it’s true, every single execrable bit of this wretched democratic reality we’re forced to endure. Isn’t it.

    Even the most poxy teenager isn’t going to vote for them after that

    One policy SR. Decriminalise dope. That will get them tens of thousands of their target market.

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  54. tom hunter (4,711 comments) says:

    However if your mantra is that money is equal to free speech …

    Equal? Money simply represents resources and if one lacks resources in terms of reporters willing to report ones words or people willing to knock on doors, then using money to buy a platform for speech is perfectly acceptable. That’s why the giant AFL-CIO union supported the Citizens United case.

    Unless of course, you wish to set up some sort of a political litmus test before someone spends their money.

    The political litmus test is that one wants to talk about things political that can advance the cause of things ideological. It’s why I have no problem with unions spending money for Labour. I’m all for money in politics.

    However in this case everyone knows that the money is being spent to try and evade the criminal justice system. It’s not even a “political” litmus test, more an ethical one.

    I think that left-wingers would be better off quoting Winston Churchill’s line about how he would at least make a favourable reference to the devil if the Nazi’s invaded hell. Which is to say that they should be more open to how anything justifies removing John Key and National from government.

    Dotcom is just playing your game by your rules.

    Given how open all this is then I would agree. He’s donating millions to a political party and everybody can see it, which is a good thing. It allows everybody to draw their own conclusions about why he’s doing this and what he expects to get out of it.

    What I object to is a bunch of left-wingers, who have for years either implied or outright said that business people donating money to National and ACT are doing so purely for personal financial gain, now suddenly saying either that that’s okay or that it’s terrible that the system allows this – overlooking that it is their claims that were false and hyperbolic in the first place whereas this claim has solid foundations.

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  55. eszett (2,396 comments) says:

    However in this case everyone knows that the money is being spent to try and evade the criminal justice system. It’s not even a “political” litmus test, more an ethical one.

    Dotcom isn’t convicted or accused of any crimes here in NZ and he is not trying to avoid any NZ criminal justice system.
    He is trying to avoid being extradited to the US.

    Not that it makes it any better, but how is it any better than someone donating money to political party to say loosen or remove the RMA so he can conduct his business with impunity and profit hugely from it?

    What I object to is a bunch of left-wingers, who have for years either implied or outright said that business people donating money to National and ACT are doing so purely for personal financial gain, now suddenly saying either that that’s okay or that it’s terrible that the system allows this – overlooking that it is their claims that were false and hyperbolic in the first place whereas this claim has solid foundations

    And what I object to is a bunch of right wingers, who have for years either implied or outright said that it is okay for business people donating money to National and ACT even if it’s for personal financial gain are now suddenly saying that it’s outrage that someone is doing it against them.

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  56. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    I am somewhat amazed at how many people (on here and on other media forums) have said that they admire Harre. Unless those people are rabid lefties then I simply cannot agree with them.

    Harre is everything I despise about the left, she thinks that those of us who earn more than the average wage should be forced to pay more tax, Harre believes in increasing the amount of money the government steals from us every week and giving that money to other people.

    Let me be clear, I hate people who steal from me or those who want to steal from me, Harre is not a person I admire, she is nothing more than scum in my book and I wish her nothing but political ill will.

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  57. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Yoza: You fucking first class wanker….you tell us your “ideology” is anarchism…What do you think the 28th Maori Battalion would have made of you? They’d have told you to shut the fuck up, and if you failed to do so quick smart they would have shut you up. And as for them defending “a sordid ideology, The last line of the Maori Battalion anthem goes “…For God, for King and for country – Aue! ake ake kia kaha e”

    Milky: You show yourself clearly to be a youngish man who works for the government…You talk to any Maori out here and it is “Us Maoris do this” or if the education is a bit better “We Maoris do that”…and, as gravedodger (I think) says correctly, it is “Would you like some pauas…do you eat kinas boy?”

    “Maori” as a plural is a late 20th century university invention…there may well have been Maori and no “Maoris” in 1840, I don’t know….and neither do you.

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  58. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    BB: I am with you on Harre…the only explanation that makes any sense is that she is not unattractive….if you can ignore that strange mannerism with the right side of her mouth…it’s always slightly more difficult to dislike attractive people human nature

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  59. elscorcho (154 comments) says:

    I am a leftist right to the bone marrow and I’d rather have National win than any left-wing coalition involving the fat German kulak.

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  60. Paulus (2,603 comments) says:

    And Harre I understand is a wealthy prickess lady having a substantial inheritance from her Grandfather.

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  61. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Paulus: As I understand it, that is correct…she is independently very wealthy…as is that prick Nicky Hager…must be some sort of guilt/atonement thing with these rich lefties….Notice they don’t give it all away though!!

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  62. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    DG

    I know it is a fault of mine but for the life of me I cannot side with those who say “so and so might be on the other side of the political divide from me but they are a nice person” (as I have heard people say about the Bradford female)

    I suspect that those who see politics as a game can deal with differing political views in that manner, or perhaps those who are very closely involved adopt that as a stance so as to be able to function in that Wellington environment however I could not do it.

    Often one hears that politics should not be taken personally, well “fuck that” is my answer. Every single person on the left wants to take more from me than I am currently forced to part with, the bastards steal enough from me already.

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  63. altiora (253 comments) says:

    @ David Garrett: every sin can be purified by the righteous fires of leftist activism! And any way, isn’t their definition of socialism “the belief that everyone should have the right to live the fine life like me”?

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  64. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    BB: Your second last para is close to the mark…As a poli, you simply cant always keep your feelings to “party lines”…the only ones who do – Sue Bradford was an exception – funnily enough are the Greens…I never ever saw any of them in Bellamy’s, not even in the downstairs café having a coffee…They were a closed clique…might be part of the reason they have never been trusted with power…

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  65. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Maybe Bellamys never served Quinoa, Tofu or humble pie DG? :)

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  66. deadrightkev (427 comments) says:

    “So at what amount does stop being freedom of speech and becoming “buying the political system”? How is different from what Colin Craig is doing?”

    Sheesh.

    Craig is investing his own private money in establishing a new party to compete, bloody good on him because it is necessary with National abusing its members and voters every election. Craig doesn’t get a million of taxpayers dollars to squander. CP members choose to join and voters choose to vote for whoever they wish. Craig is not using another party in the MMP system (not so far, but I hope he does) to get an advantage.

    Envy is ugly. If he wants to spend his own money on what he believes is restoring this nation more power to him.

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  67. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    JB: Quite so! They are very pious the Greens (being “Green” is of course a religion to them)…. but no humility, and totally lacking any sense of humour…

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  68. Keeping Stock (10,270 comments) says:

    “It isn’t easy being green” – Kermit the Frog

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  69. altiora (253 comments) says:

    Kelvin Davis is yet another reason why we need to move to an electoral system which puts more power into the hands of the local MP at the expense of the party machine. While FPP was not a fair system (compared to STV or PV), the whole idea that each MP must have legitimacy from persuading an electorate to vote in him or her was a crucial element in our democracy. As pains as they can be, marverick MPs are important to guard against the machinations of the party machine.

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  70. goldnkiwi (1,265 comments) says:

    Craig is also a NZ’er unlike some others who are so grateful for having a place to stay that they think they can take over!!!

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  71. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    “It’s easy being pink” – Miss Piggy/Grant Robertson! :)

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  72. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    DG

    I hope you did not take anything I said as an attack on you, that was not my intention at all. My point being that those who have the ability to separate politics from personality are I guess better men than me.

    I found your comments about the Greens interesting, I do not doubt for one minute that those bastards see themselves as being better than everybody else. That Aussie wanker oozes smugness as does the ever expanding castle owner and female co leader.

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  73. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    BB: No offence taken old boy…Norman is (or more accurately was; it’s been a while since I was there) probably the least liked member – well, perhaps excluding Cosgrove….that little maggot is in a category all his own…

    In fact now that I think about it, that was another thing which was different about the Greens…very little collegiality visible among them…or perhaps they only showed it when they were all sitting around the toadstool indulging in the sacrament…

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  74. man.u (2 comments) says:

    What are the rules to vote on the Māori electoral role? Could it tip the balance for a few Nats to jump from the general, vote Kelvin Davis and party vote National?

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  75. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    manu: I am pretty sure they only allow switching from the General Roll to the Maori every now and again…like every two years or something….I might be wrong…

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  76. goldnkiwi (1,265 comments) says:

    Maybe he is just missing his wife. Mona Dotcom – Mana Dotcom ;). Problem is we give him so much oxygen, perhaps we should starve him instead?

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  77. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Speaking of the toadstool…what’s happened to poor old toad?

    Hope he hasn’t sublimed back into the pre Rod Donald primeval soup! :)

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  78. Reid (16,230 comments) says:

    They are very pious the Greens (being “Green” is of course a religion to them)…. but no humility, and totally lacking any sense of humour…

    You have to be a special kind of person not only to be so completely and utterly wrong about almost every single thing you have an opinion on, but also to hallucinate at one and the same time that you’re just way ahead of everyone else in the ‘how to be a good human’ competition.

    I’ve taken to calling them Bedlamites after the sign I imagine hangs above their Caucus Room in Parliament. It seems appropriate.

    Hope he hasn’t sublimed back into the pre Rod Donald primeval soup!

    Probably disappeared in a warm puff of sanctimonious superciliousness.

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  79. eszett (2,396 comments) says:

    Craig is investing his own private money in establishing a new party to compete, bloody good on him because it is necessary with National abusing its members and voters every election. Craig doesn’t get a million of taxpayers dollars to squander. CP members choose to join and voters choose to vote for whoever they wish. Craig is not using another party in the MMP system (not so far, but I hope he does) to get an advantage.

    Well then stop complaining about Dotcom and the IMP.
    Dotcom is investing his own money as well. And you may not agree with his motives, but he is doing nothing else than what Colin Craig is doing. Using shitloads of money to game the system and buy political power.

    To quote a one-time presidential candidate: what’s sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander.

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  80. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    @ man.u & DG

    Changing Electoral roll type is only allowed during the Maori Option period of about 4 months following each Census of Population.
    So the next change is not until 2018.

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  81. goldnkiwi (1,265 comments) says:

    eszett (2,289 comments) says:

    May 31st, 2014 at 3:48 pm

    So you would be happy if for example a Chinese ‘resident’ decided to set up a political party and tried to interfere in the NZ political psyche, ffs the Chinese can’t even buy a house without there being a hou ha. What was the issue re Dotcom buying the mansion? He really has nothing holding him here other than that we are undoubtedly a soft touch.

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  82. ShawnLH (4,483 comments) says:

    From comrade Yowza: “The Act party and their National party sponsors are closer to anything advocated by the Nazis than Mana or the Internet party. You sad little man.”

    Yowza clearly has no clue what the Nazis’s actually stood for, or he would realize this statement is just plain stupid.

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  83. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Philp: Yes, I thought it was something like that….but do you know, is there anything stopping someone like me – without a drop of Maori blood in him (to the best of my knowledge) from enrolling? Its not done these days to demand how MUCH of a Maori you are is it?

    Shawn: It’s worse than that….the anonymous prick is a despicable swine for even making the comparison…he’d never make it to my face that’s for bloody sure…

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  84. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Quite so Reid. They were not a bad little party when Genetic and Rod ran the show. Not that a sensible chap like myself would have ever voted for them of course! :)

    The travesty they have become under the Sausage and The Aussie Squeaker is very sad to behold. How folks that really care for the environment can cast their votes for a bunch of commie losers like that has me very confused. Perhaps Toad has seen the light and opted out. :)

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  85. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Yowza may be Nosti’s mini-me David? :)

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  86. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    @ DG
    Philp: “Yes, I thought it was something like that….but do you know, is there anything stopping someone like me – without a drop of Maori blood in him (to the best of my knowledge) from enrolling? Its not done these days to demand how MUCH of a Maori you are is it?”

    Put it this way, when signing an enrolment form you are signing a declaration that is admissible in court. I guess there is no reason stopping a new voter, or during the MO period, to declare you are of Maori descent and sign on the Maori Roll. You just have to be prepared that you may be challenged sometime down the track. But why do this in the first place is beyond me. I think from memory there are 50% or more “Maori” actually on the General Roll, I stand to be corrected on that though.

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  87. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Philp: Yes, I think you are right that at least 50% of “Maori” – whatever that means these days – are on the General Roll.

    But with respect, it doesn’t take much imagination to see why someone – like myself, but lacking the notoriety – should consider registering on the Maori roll. I have two children to educate, and that is becoming ever more expensive. If a father is on the Maori roll presumably his children can apply for Maori scholarships? For quota places in law and medical schools…all the other things that are reserved for the “special people” who arrived in this land 400 years or so before the rest of us…

    Let me be very clear: saying what I have doesn’t diminish by a millimetre my great respect for the men of the Maori Battalion who I referred to earlier… nor do I believe it makes me one of the accursed ones of modern life – “a racist”. But I remain opposed as I have always been to any kind of race based advantage…or disadvantage. While we have “Maori” this or that, the potential exists for one race of citizen to gain an advantage not available to others.

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  88. Harriet (4,798 comments) says:

    “…….And you may not agree with his motives, but he is doing nothing else than what Colin Craig is doing. Using shitloads of money to game the system and buy political power……”

    but unlike Craig, Cunliffe and his GIMPs while in government will be using shitloads of other peoples money to game the system and buy political power – for the following elections.

    Craig’s money is a deposit of assurance that won’t happen. KDC’s money is that it will happen.

    KDC has done his money as Key will give Craig and possably Whyte a seat so as not to waste the votes, as others have said.

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  89. goldnkiwi (1,265 comments) says:

    PhilP (149 comments) says:

    May 31st, 2014 at 5:12 pm

    Not sure re the Maori Roll but I assume there would be cross checking. Whakapapa etc at university gets requested on forms etc, I am not sure how that affects whangai, as that can be a complication. Census etc also asks the questions.

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  90. Johnboy (15,903 comments) says:

    Yes David Garrett.

    Never forget that the 1000 men of the Maori Battalion won the Second World War on their own with just a little help from 5 million Americans, 3 million Europeans and 25 million Russians! :)

    Never let truth get in the way of a good story of course! :)

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  91. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    David Garrett (5,501 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 1:05 pm

    Yoza: You fucking first class wanker….

    You really are a complete tit, Garrett. You are an arrogant fool, along with anyone who places any credence in anything you write, if you actually believe members of the Maori Battalion would be turning in their graves because someone with Hone Harawira’s mana is representing Maori interests in parliament. Fuck wit.

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  92. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    David Garrett (5,503 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 4:21 pm

    Shawn: It’s worse than that….the anonymous prick is a despicable swine for even making the comparison…he’d never make it to my face that’s for bloody sure…

    Try me.

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  93. PhilP (163 comments) says:

    @ DG – I agree with your comment. One of my grandchildren has a smidgeon of Maori blood (father part Maori 16th I think) and they intend to use whatever advantage there is to educate their child using Maori heritage. I don’t agree with it myself as we are all supposed to be equal under the law but sadly that is not the case in so many ways if you can claim indigenous status.

    @ goldnkiwi – Enrolment forms are accepted at face value but as i mentioned earlier you sign a legal document admissible in court so there may well be consequences if challenged, who knows. Certainly for Maori education grants/scholarships etc you have to be able to prove heritage.

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  94. SPC (5,563 comments) says:

    Oh great, the ABC team demonstrates their loyalty to fair play so they can sabotage the chance of election victory for the leader imposed on them by their own party members.

    As for Hipkins his attacks on future colleagues – earlier Cunliffe, now those of a potential coalition partner are telling. He thinks like a FPP era politician. Harre is ex Alliance not Labour (the left is not a monopoly owned by Labour), its origins lie with the New Labour breakaway. MMP formed because the big parties lost trust (both 1984 Labour and 1990 National ran on one policy and then applied another) and could only be kept honest if the public had alternatives.

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  95. goldnkiwi (1,265 comments) says:

    PhilP (152 comments) says:

    May 31st, 2014 at 7:14 pm

    I agree about the enrolment forms but as there are special Maori tutorials etc, all those claiming Maori blood for those purposes seemed in my experience to spend extra time with each other. I am sure they sussed each others whakapapa out, to see if related, if nothing else.

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  96. Reid (16,230 comments) says:

    Try me.

    Spoken like a true lefty tosser Yoza. The self-righteous sanctimony drips from your very being, shrouded only by your cloud of profound ignorance bordering on hallucinogenic insanity, which appears to make lefties like you hallucinate you and you alone are the only ones who give a damn about our fellow human beings and if anyone dares to disagree with your gallopingly mental version of the unworkable and unrealistic remedy for their ills, why they’re simply haters and wreckers of the most execrable kind.

    Let me remind you Yoza that it was one of your primary acolytes who coined that phrase along with cancerous and corrosive and the one worthwhile thing she thereby offered albeit unintentionally to the country was that she thus revealed the true underlying character at the core of the lefty is nothing less than naked venomous venal evil. The fact you see nothing wrong with attaching yourself approvingly to such hateful wicked creatures speaks volumes about your intelligence, your perception, your perspicacity, your ethics and your arrogance.

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  97. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Yoza: You big brave boy…I live on Kanohi Road Kaukapakapa…just over the second railway crossing…old villa house down a long drive…or perhaps you’d like me to come to you? Give me the address and I’ll be there tomorrow…

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  98. SPC (5,563 comments) says:

    Reid, ascribing a certain negative character trait to “lefties” (by race, religion, political creed or ) is a sinister development in the political life of any nation.

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  99. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Just for the record…This asshole compared me to a Nazi….I say he’d never say that to my face….He says “try me” (all at his 7.00)

    He won’t show up of course, but I have given him the address where he can call me a Nazi to my face…

    Gutless anonymous troll…worse than Red…

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  100. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    JB: I don’t think anyone was suggesting that…but the sad truth is the 28th Battalion suffered much higher casualties than any other NZ unit…due of course to the Maoris’ willingness to go into close combat when the odds were against them…

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  101. Reid (16,230 comments) says:

    Reid, ascribing a certain negative character trait to “lefties” (by race, religion, political creed or ) is a sinister development in the political life of any nation.

    I only ascribe what I said to those lefties who believe that conservative economic policies are based on selfish self-interested enrichment at the expense of others SPC. So you tell me, (a) which lefties are ruled out from that mindset and (b) if a certain group or even all lefties really do think that, then what’s the difference between them and what I said, vis-a-vis “assigning a certain negative character trait to…?”

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  102. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    Mr “Try Me” seems to have gone all bashful…typical anonymous leftie blowarse…In the highly unlikely event that he shows up for a wee chat, you chaps here will be the first to know…

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  103. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    DG

    You got mail.

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  104. SPC (5,563 comments) says:

    Reid, yes we know you don’t withdraw crap, you re-invent what you meant when you posted it – then you go on to defend the appropriateness of attacking those who you attacked, to justify having done so, and then you go on to make another one.

    All, in all, the same outcome that occurs whenever someone who launches attacks on other based on race , religion or political creed or gender or sexuality, is challenged.

    Because those who resort to these practices, don’t have the character to stop doing what they do.

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  105. Reid (16,230 comments) says:

    Reid, yes we know you don’t withdraw crap, you re-invent what you meant when you posted it – then you go on to defend the appropriateness of attacking those who you attacked to justify having done so and you then make another one.

    Crikey. Do I?

    How about: I say what I think without bothering to sugar-coat it because I give a fuck about the truth but I don’t give a fuck whether people like it or not, and when someone asks me to clarify what I meant or why I said what I said, I do so.

    Does that explain it, or not really?

    What if I said anything at all?

    Would that change your opinion?

    No?

    Right. That’s what I thought.

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  106. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    David Garrett (5,508 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 9:12 pm

    Mr “Try Me” seems to have gone all bashful…typical anonymous leftie blowarse…In the highly unlikely event that he shows up for a wee chat, you chaps here will be the first to know…

    I live in Brixham Way, Newtown, Wellington. You are welcome to turn up here anytime you like, sunshine.

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  107. burt (8,206 comments) says:

    I think Dotcom has been playing too much COD. If he gets extradited Pam Corkery and Liala Harre are claymore’s in parliament every time Key speaks -for 3 years!

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  108. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    Lol, there was a time when if one said they lived in Newtown then you knew they were a tough bastard.

    These days…..not so much.

    Newtown…….. doing its best to be Ponsonby since 1996.

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  109. Nostradamus (3,216 comments) says:

    Yoza:

    Don’t keep us in suspense!

    Would you invite David Garrett in for a cup of tea and scones?

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  110. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    big bruv (12,548 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 9:43 pm

    Lol, there was a time when if one said they lived in Newtown then you knew they were a tough bastard.

    These days…..not so much.

    Newtown…….. doing its best to be Ponsonby since 1996.

    I’ve lived here since 1981

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  111. Unity (493 comments) says:

    Our whole political system is going to be a shambles. I can see it coming. However, no-one has mentioned something that would sort the whole thing out. National has now moved over to the left. If there is a shambles after the election, why don’t National and Labour go into coalition together, sort out the whole electoral fiasco over the following 3 years and then go their own sweet ways (if they must) in the election following. From where I’m sitting there isn’t all that much difference between the two Parties. It’s not such a funny idea you know!!

    However, would they ever agree on anything? Come to think of it, would National ever be able to cope with the equal gender etc bias?

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  112. SPC (5,563 comments) says:

    “The sad truth about bigotry is that most bigots either don’t realize that they are bigots, or they convince themselves that their bigotry is perfectly justified.”

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  113. David Garrett (7,005 comments) says:

    How fortunate…you’re in another city…Sunshine…

    But what number Brixham way? We don’t have numbers out here…that’s why I gave you directions…Over the second railway crossing, down a long drive…

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  114. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    Yoza

    Since 1981 you say. Tell me, how are you enjoying your capital gain? Does that not make you a neo con?

    Oh, and you have to go back a lot further than 81 to be considered a real Newtown tough bastard.

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  115. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    Did you ever drink in the middle bar of the Tramways when the BP ran things down there big bruv?

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  116. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    Yoza

    Indeed, the Tramways was usually the last stop on the way up to Athletic park, but as a rule no. The Tramways was on the other side of town from me.

    I do hope you are not trying to claim tough bastard status just because you used to drink in the flying jug every once in a while.

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  117. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    big bruv (12,550 comments) says:
    May 31st, 2014 at 10:07 pm

    I do hope you are not trying to claim tough bastard status just because you used to drink in the flying jug every once in a while.

    No, I know enough hard bastards to understand how long I would survive competing at that strata, but we’re talking about that lick spittle Garrett – he is a long way from representing a threat.

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  118. big bruv (13,689 comments) says:

    ” but we’re talking about that lick spittle Garrett ”

    No Yoza, you are talking about David Garrett, a man who has achieved more in his life than you will ever achieve. Yes he made a mistake but he has done more for NZ than you could ever dream of.

    Me, well I am talking about you, as far as I am concerned you are nothing more than scum, a gutless lefty who wants everything in life handed to them on a plate.

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  119. Yoza (1,786 comments) says:

    I don’t think Kiwiblog is the ideal forum for you to discus your wet dreams there, big bruv.

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